Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 95 - Pancho MFN' Villa: Mexico's Robin Hood

Episode Date: July 9, 2018

Pancho Villa! Pancho Villa was a revolutionary fighter who despised the wealthy landowners who had subjugated the impoverished farming class, comprised of mostly indigenous people, since long before he was born. He stole from the rich and gave to the poor. He also stole from the rich to fuel the various wars he fought in, all of which had the same goal - to topple Mexico’s existing power structure and redistribute the wealth the upper 1% possessed amongst the poor. He was one of the world’s first movie stars, and he wasn’t an actor. In a way, he was the world’s first reality TV star, because at one point he allowed actual battles he fought in to be filmed. And we’re gonna learn all about him, and a lot about Mexico along the way, in another power to the people edition of Timesuck Want to help Harmony Vellekamp? She's dealing with another high risk pregnancy and can use any help you'd like to offer! https://www.gofundme.com/5s6lkf4 My new free Behind the Bit Pandora station with Chad Daniels talking about our favorite bits! https://www.pandora.com/station/play/3978690913982414208?ag=17920720304261509 Timesuck is also brought to you The Great Courses Plus! Do yourself a HUGE favor and get a month of SO MUCH amazing, interesting, and informative content for FREE: https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/timesuck Timesuck is brought to you be Leesa! We love Leesa! Get $160 off when you go to Leesa.com/timesuck Merch - https://badmagicmerch.com/ Want to try out Discord!?! https://discord.gg/tqzH89v Want to join the Cult of the Curious private Facebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" in order to locate whatever current page hasn't been put in FB Jail :) For all merch related questions: https://badmagicmerch.com/pages/contact Please rate and subscribe on iTunes and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG, @timesuckpodcast on Twitter, and www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcast Wanna be a Space Lizard? We're over 2500 strong! Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast Sign up through Patreon and for $5 a month you get to listen to the Secret Suck, which will drop Thursdays at Noon, PST. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. You get to vote on two Monday topics each month via the app. And you get the download link for my new comedy album, Feel the Heat. Check the Patreon posts to find out how to download the new album and take advantage of other benefits. And, thank you for supporting the show by doing your Amazon shopping after clicking on my Amazon link at www.timesuckpodcast.com

Poncho Via had what a lot of historians refer to as the single greatest Mexican moustache of all time. Many Mexican men have had moustaches, but more often than not, they've been somewhat wispy composed of what appears to be 20 to 30 hairs total thin borderline feminine, a Danny Treo before the hair in wardrobe department gets a hold of it moustache, not via poncho Via had a Sam Elliott, Tom Selik, Ron Swanson bore out type of mustache. Pancho via feared no man, but his mustache scared the shit out of him. He knew if his mustache ever turned against him, his precious revolution will be lost. But seriously, Pancho via was referred to by many as the Robin Hood of Mexico.

Some referred to him as the George Washington of Mexico. He was a legend in his own lifetime. Long before the ridiculous Chuck Norris legends, you know, guns don't kill people, Chuck Norris kills people. There were Pancho via over the top tales of preposterous machismo. You know, stuff like, there's no one else like Pancho via if there was, Pancho would find him and blow his brains out. Pancho via was one of the world's first movie stars and he wasn't an actor. In a way, he was the world's first reality TV star because at one point, he allowed actual battles he fought in to be filmed.

Ponceville was a revolutionary fighter who despised the wealthy landowners who had subjugated the impoverished farming class of Mexico, comprised of mostly indigenous people since long before he was born. He stole from the rich and he gave to the poor. He also stole from the rich to fuel the various wars he fought in, all of which had the same goal to topple Mexico's existing power structure and redistribute the wealth. The upper one percent possessed amongst the poor. And we're going to learn all about him and a lot about Mexico along the way in another power to the people killing in the name of

addition of time sucks. You're listening to time. Happy Monday time suckers. Hope you had a great fourth July. One time sucker for sure had a good weekend time sucker. Angelia Decepe Dece DeSepi, DeSepi, God, the name, you got a very Italian name. You got a very straight off the boat name. And Angel, Angel, Angelia, it's like Angelina but without an N and DeJacepi. I think it's how you say your last name. Of course, it

couldn't have been like Jane Smith who won this thing. Well, Angela, Angela, whatever your name is, you won the Weber Grill courtesy of the Amerigast give away. Congrats. Heat that meat. Thanks to all of you who participated for the rest of you, work and wait. I know you're probably dreading being back after holiday week. We had a little time off. Time suck is here. Cushion the blow blow time for some more brain candy. Had a blast working on today's suck. I'm Dan Cummins, aka the mother sucker, the master sucker, the profit of Nimrod, the Munchmouth King, sex slave of the Lucifina and he who walks with both jangles.

And you are one smooth Michael McDonald lovin summertime saline, yacht rock and listener of time suck. Welcome to the cult of the curious Hill Nimrod. Donald lovin, summertime salin, Yacht Rock and listener of Time Suck. Welcome to the Cult of the Curious, Hail Nimrod. And I believe I mispronounced Michael McDonald, I believe it's Michael mother fucking McDonald is correct. Big thanks to the rap, man, that popular LA based entertainment website. We made their 10 perfect summer podcast list.

So we made a, made a top 10 list. I'm very excited about that, man. They said, quote, when we want to go down to dark, dark rabbit hole, we turn to time suck. Comedian Dan Celman's address of subjects from the Spanish Inquisition to serial murders with a six sense of humor they demand. He's a master of always making fun of the right people and never the wrong ones and he's graded balancing the frantic and drool. Oh, thank you.

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We are working on the problem is my fault right now where the beta test has been going. I just haven't had time with kind of like my own kind of holiday stuff to join in is as fast as I would like, but I am joining in in a few days to really to really get that stuff going to get the new version out. So a lot of the bugs are fixed. So we're working on all kinds of stuff, always working on something. Thanks for continuing to send and gifts and artwork to the suck dungeon each week. So much talent in the suck world. It's really amazing shit from pinup artwork to books to posters, paintings to woodcarbings, cornhole boards,

all of that stuff's been sent to PO box 3891, cordless nine Idaho 83816. Also I do have the correct link now up in the episode description for the new Pandora station behind the bit featuring Chad Daniels and I discuss or discussing our favorite bits, how we thought of them, what we like about one another's work, etc. The station was having technical difficulties the other day. Hopefully those have been remedied. Huge thanks to everyone who ordered a cheeky teal of rasslin academy kit. Sorry if it took a few days longer, the normal to send those out.

Eric got slammed. Merchmaster Eric got slammed with the order. So happy with this product, man. Over half of the 500 limited edition summer camp kits with that limp water bottle, that punk rock wristband camp t-shirt drawstring camp backpack already gone. There's only a, only a handful of large and small t-shirt size kits left. So much rastlin. What does big deal with so much rastlin?

Why is people loving so much rastlin? Thanks for not letting us lose thousands of dollars on a bunch of weird ass fucking back facts that are very hard to explain to non-time suckers. Oh, and when you get it, open the water bottle before you try to expand it. Turns out that's a trick. I almost ruined my water bottle just trying to fucking force it apart like a caveman. Flat earth tour coming to Orlando this week. Be it the improvs, lie 12 to the 14th, the Orlando improv podcast on the 15th with Tom and

Dan from mediocre time. Queen of the suck, Lindsey Lindsey come with me as well. Lindsay's also going to be heading with me to SoCal the next week comedy store in LaHoya July 20 through 20 second. Another great club date no higher July 27 through 28th. Not sure if Lindsey's heading along for that one. So I think she'll be at home with the Kitties and the Penny Pooper and Gigi on August, albeit side splitters and Tampa the second to the fifth Palm Beach improv 10th to the 12th. Zanies in Chicago 15th to the 18th.

That's that one downtown near downtown by second city. And then a Denver comedy works 23rd to the 25th with another live podcast on the 26th. And a lot of more, a lot more tour dates coming up Portland Denver to coma Tampa your mom's bedroom Palm Beach your dad's bedroom. Hollywood and Huntington Beach so much more Dancomas.tv now let's go bandito. Let's get revolutionary. Let's suck the shit out of a man who honestly probably got sucked to fair amount is on lifetime poncho via. To me, this episode really represents the best of time suck.

I knew literally nothing about Pancho Vía before last week. He was just a name to me. Just, I had no idea what his name represented. I heard it, but two weeks ago, you know, I couldn't even tell you a certain to what country he was from, you know, Mexico, maybe, maybe somewhere in central, South America, maybe, maybe Spain, maybe still cow. But why was he famous? I don't know. You know, was he bandit, president, bank robber, gunslinger, you know, juggler, puppeteer, big game hunter? Who knew? Well, I know now, and you're about to know now. And he was incredible. He was truly an inspiring story, man. Maybe feel the way I felt when

I researched Chessie puller Going through poncho videos tale brave tough take no prisoners no excuses. Let's get shit done You're gonna have to kill me to stop me force a fucking nature same same vein is like Teddy mother fucking Roosevelt chief crazy horse I love those tales man. I love those tales when you're like you know you're tired Or if you're having like a woe is me moment or whatever These are the stories to listen to. It's like, you know what? Stop feeling fucking sorry for yourself.

Poncho Via wouldn't feel sorry for himself. Get out there and fight for what he wanted. Truly amazing to me, what some people have done with their time on earth. Man, reinvigorates me to hear their tales. Now, if you're not getting what you want out of life, are you just going to lay down and accept some bullshit? Are you going to go out and fight for what you believe in poncho fought He fought a lot so much fighting to understand what poncho via was fighting for we must first understand the history of Mexican independence

And the recent Aztec empire suck. We learned how Spanish conquistadors invented Pignatas. Yes, Cortez the father of the Pignata Mono zoom and showed him how human ritual sacrifice works and he was like, that's cool. But what if instead of pulling out still beating hearts and cutting heads off and flaying skin and all that jazz, what if he just hit candy at a paper mache donkey and like kids hit it with sticks? Think about it. Of course, that's not true. We learned how Spanish conquisitors conquered modern day Mexico when Cortez and his allies

crushed the Aztecs after he crushed the Aztecs in 1521 CE. He quickly crushed and subjugated the other regional empires and put the yoke of colonial Spain upon them and then Spain rules over Mexico for the next three centuries. 1808, the Spanish Empire is greatly weakened by Napoleon's war against Spain, occupation of the Iberian peninsula. He topples a monarchy, establishes his brother Joseph as his brief leader. Remember, remember Joseph Bonaparte? Huge bonus points to you. If you can recall which episode of time suck he made a cameo in a weird cameo.

Think hard. I'll give you a big hint. It's a suck set in Jersey. Yes. He showed up in the Jersey devil sucked. Remember that? Joseph, after being booted out of Spain by British forces took off to the United States in 1817 ended up in New Jersey for a time where he claimed to have an encounter

with the Jersey devil. Right. That's also where he made a butt baby with a piney. Well, look at here now. I got some pig. I see his pig. I already look out of my womb was beard. Well, look at here now with the full belly, I made a butt baby with the one on mine And it's air to the Kingdom of Friends Got no teeth and it shits its pants Under the moonlight it will dance The Jersey Devil's really from friends

Ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring Man, I missed singing that piny song I know some of you hate it Hold call back, just went down for some of your new time suckers Anyway, I know some of you hate it. Hold call back. Just went down for some of you new time suckers. Anyway, I was, I know that was weird. With Spain fighting and losing a war with France in 1808, I nailed it on the first take by the way.

I didn't want to disappoint that out. I'm not saying that was a Grammy worthy performance of song. I'm not saying I'm the songstress, the songbird of my generation. However, one take, all right. You just want to throw it out there. Spain fights loses the war with France in 1808.

Their provincial government, Mexico loses stability, various American born spaniards, people born in Spanish families who who live the Mexico for centuries at this point, you know, and who who had lost more and more cultural association with Spain. They start to fight for independence from Spain. They want to just do it themselves. One of these people was a Catholic priest named Father Manuel Hidalgo, a priest in the small village of Dolores.

He issued his now famous call for Mexican independence to cry for Dolores on September 16, 1810. I just realized I didn't look up to pronunciation for, it be a Dolores, but I think it's Dolores. It's the it's the date celebrated as Mexico's independence day. And again, that September 16th, 1810, September 16th, not May 5th, Greengose. Cinco de Mayo commemorates the Mexican army's victory over the French Empire on May 5th, 1862, after the French invaded Mexico in 1861 after Mexico had failed, failed to pay back some loans that France, that they wanted, they're coming to collect a little more complicated than that. But that's, that's all we need to note today. Cinco de Mayo is actually a, a, a much bigger holiday in the US than it is in Mexico. It's basically like if Mexico celebrated

Lincoln's birthday as the major celebration of all things American. February 13th, by the way, is Abraham Lincoln's birthday. It's public holiday in a few states like Illinois. Don't feel bad. I didn't know either. Anyway, Hidalgo rallied a bunch of peasants to take arms against Mexico's foreign rulers and they got their asses kicked and he got himself killed after a few early small victories.

And luckily, that's not the end of his tail. While he died. His message lived and he inspired the local population to continue to fight foreign rule. And by August 1821, Spain officially conceded that Mexico was in fact its own country. And then Mexico had a variety of presence and territory for a time that it included Texas as we learned in the Texas Ranger suck and included California, Utah, the American Southwest. I had the vat as we learn in the Texas Ranger suck and included California, Utah, the American Southwest. I had the vat as we learn in the, in the Donner party suck, Mexico undergoes a civil war

known as the reform war. At almost the same time the US has its civil war between 1857 and 1860. Wars waged between members of the liberal party who had taken power in 1855 and members of the conservative party resisting the legitimate legitimacy of the new liberal government and its radical restructuring of Mexican law. So it turns out it's not just modern American liberals and conservatives who hate each other and fight a lot. Then there's that French occupation thing. I mentioned a few minutes ago in the 1860s.

I mean, I don't want to think what the mile comes from. And then after numerous other revolts and uprisings, a man named, put a, put a real Diaz takes control of Mexico, except for a one four year stretch from 1880 to 1884, Diaz will rule unopposed essentially as a dictator until 1911. He's a president only in name. So, so, so much more political turmoil in the past few hundred years of Mexican history than there has been in the United States. During the period of Diaz's rule, which will take us into the life of Pontcholvia, Mexico undergoes tremendous commercial and economic development based largely on Diaz's encouragement of foreign investment in the country, part of which is based around oil.

Get some, get some of that oil money flowing out of the country by 1910. Most of the largest businesses in Mexico are owned by foreign nationals, mostly American or British. You know, a lot of them making that some of that oil money. The modernizing reforms made by the Diaz government turn Mexico City into a bustling metropolis, railroads and mills or peacefully multiplying throughout the country, mines, plantations, telegraph lines, railroads are being built. It's all bringing a lot of wealth to the nation. It comes, however, at the cost of continued oppression for many. For Mexico's poor, it's just more the same now.

Diaz is close circle of friends, benefit greatly. Most of Mexico's vast wealth remains in the hands of a few families, just like it had, the time before Diaz, just like it had in the time of the Spanish occupation, and the poor continue to be poor. Across the nation, thousands of peasants work under slave-typed conditions on enormous and essentially futile estates, where through indentured servitude, debt would be inherited by children from their parents. The Hasey end of just one family, the terraces, covered more than two and a half million acres.

That's over three times the size of the entire state of Rhode Island, all owned by one family. Uh, 90% of the country's population lived in poverty. More than three quarters of the population were pure Indian, uh, looked down upon and exploited by the wealthy ruling class who, according to various historians, believed them to be an ignorant and lazy mass fit to be oppressed, subjugated, and put to work until they died of exhaustion. So that's how literally thought of them. This is the Mexico.

Pancho Villa is born into an extreme version of the haves and the have-nots, and he is born as a have-not seemingly born to a fate of serving the wealthy, which feels all too relevant to me as economic inequality grows here in the US. Did you know, by the way, that the US ranks around the 30th percentile and income inequality globally, which means that 70% of countries have a more equal income distribution than the US. Not that they have plenty of money to spread around, but what they do have is spread around a little more equally.

The top 1% of households received approximately 20% of pre-tax income in 2013 versus approximately 10% from 1950 to 1980. You understand? 1950 to 1980, staying at 10% and then 23 years it jumps to 20% and it just keeps going higher. The gap continues to grow. Does that sound right? It doesn't sound good to me.

You know, drive, drive through the working class section of your city and, and you will see for yourself, if you don't live there, uh, that people are struggling. So now that we understand a little bit about Mexico's history from Cortez to Villa, which is basically continual subjugation of the poor indigenous population, first by Spanish born rulers, then by Spanish controlled rulers, then by local Mexican born rulers who break from Spain only to exploit themselves We can dive into Pancho's rebellion and fight for the poor that led to a US president Woodrow Wilson referring to him as the Mexican Robin Hood before the US turned on Pancho. We're gonna learn about all that

today's time suck timeline Shrap on those boots soldier. We're marching down a time suck, timeline. June 5, 1878. Jose, Dorotel, Arango, Arambula is born into extreme poverty. The actual city of his birth is disputed, but the most exception located, accepted location is in Rancho de la Coyodara and in a significant village of no more than six houses inside the Hacienda of Santa Isabel de Berros in the state of Durango. So the man who would later attain fame under the moniker Pancho via that is catchier than all the shit I said earlier. Let's fight for Pancho via via is, I think that's more powerful than that.

Let's fight for Jose, Doratorio, Arango, Arambina. Yeah, Rolls-Off's tongue a little bit better. Born into one of those giant farms into indentured servitude, hatred of the rich soon follows. His father Augustine, Arango was a sharecropper, aka 19th century Mexican equivalent of a medieval surf. Sharecroppers, someone who farms land they don't own and then they give a portion of their crops each year to the owner to sell. And at this time in Mexico, the portion will be high enough to keep the farmer from ever

having enough money to actually buy the land they farm. So essentially, they're indentured servants. His mother, Michaela Arambia, raised via and his four younger siblings from an early age, VIA had to help earn money for the family. Family couldn't afford to send him to school, you know, but rather he, uh, he got up at three o'clock in the morning because he had to walk 10 miles to get to work. And then the overseer required them to be working at five a.m. Man, my kids, I think I can't, I can't even imagine my kids trying to pull off that shit.

Uh, there's no way. There's no way. You know, I tell Kyler to to mow the whole yard and he looks at me like I just asked him to, you know, go off and fight in a foreign war for three years. He says, what? But it's my name is Ane Degreza. Poncho was able to learn how to read and write through his local church. Mostly he worked, he worked on a large ranch, plant and corn running errands for the workers.

He described as a cheerful boy who liked to play cards, constantly gotten to fight. So you know, cheerful to some violent others, which would describe him as an adult as well. 1893, Vias father dies, leaving him his head of the household at either 14 or 15 years old. And again, oh my God, if I died in two years and I love my kids death, but if Kyler had to run the house in two years, oh, fucking bankruptcy. Here we come. The house is going under. He's only, he's only able to hold onto this role for about a year because someone does something the following year that leaves him decidedly

unchairful in 1894, local property owner, Augustine Lopez Negretti wanted to exercise what was loosely known as the right of Lord on Vee's beautiful young teenage sister. Basically, if you're a landowner or you're like a land-owning friend of a landowner and you wanna fuck some peasants daughter or their sister, you know, you got to do it. You know, you got

to do it or they got to get kicked off their land and become homeless beggars, you know, because peasants were seen as their property. You got to do it. You want it with your property. So this owner ends up raping her and young VIA finds out, shoots him dead and immediately becomes a fugitive with the price on his head. He steals horse, fleas for the mountains in northern Mexico. He joins a group of bandits, some banditos and officially took the name Pancho via gang go by his regular name now. Well, quickly, via becomes leader of his own gang of fellow outlaws and miscreants. And he spends the next six years living in the mountains acting like Robin Hood. He

in his gang grew to about 40, 50 men. They'd steal from large local ranches. They'd haciendas. It's still cattle, other animals, but never from the poor local farmers directly, you know, instead he'd, he'd share his loot with them. They became notorious enough for the Mexican government to put a reward of 10,000 gold pesos on his head. And I have, I have no idea what that translates to because I could not for the life of me find out how much were pesos worth in the year 1900 compared to the American dollar 1900 so that I could then translate it to today's dollar worst now. Time sucker editor, Jettis Doughner could also only find conversion rates going back to 1947.

It's 10K in 1910 is worth almost 276,000 current inflation rates. So let's, you know, for all you can say, it's a lot of fucking money, a lot of money. Despite a higher reward of 10,000 pesos, which may have translated into, you know, a fucking billion dollars or $10. No one turned him in. In fact, the local people would warn via when law enforcement was looking for him. They loved him. He fought for them.

He did care of them. He was our champion, you know, he was really good at hiding as well. In addition to becoming a famous revolutionary, he could have been a world class hide and see player who had memorized, you know, the intricate mountain trails where he lived. He became a very skilled horse rider. He eventually became the most wanted man in northern Mexico and still they could not catch him. And then in 1910, Poncho evolves from bandit to revolutionary when he backs the play of one Francisco Madero. Francisco Madero was a well, a member of wealthy family who started writing against Porfidero. Diaz's government

Madero was wealthy but socially conscious. At least he seemed to be. He's also a small man. He's a tiny man. It's four foot ten inches. That's all with the, what I would consider a stereotypical vegetarians physique. Like I'm not an incredibly strong man, but I feel like I could, if I was going to enter a contest where I had to throw another grown man for as far as I could. Like who gets, who can throw a grown man the farthest? And I spotted him in the crowd. He would be my teammate. I would, I would confidently feel like I could throw him, I don't know, eight, 10, 12

feet. Anyway, he was large in spirit. And the summer 1910, when the now 80-year-old Mexican six-term president slash dictator, Belfierio Diaz promises free elections. Medero decides he's going to run against him. And then when Medero starts gaining some traction in the election, Diaz is like, you know what? I was kind of kidding. About the whole, you know, anyone can win election thing. That's not how he does this. I mean, I see you can run, but once you get too many votes, you gotta fucking get the chill.

You gotta get the chill. So, so you get to do your rest, him. You rest him. Dia's wins the election for himself. Seven time in a row. Oh, he's a seven time champion. He wasn't quite ready to retire yet. I've heard power is addictive.

He'd had a lot of it for a long time. Those types generally don't just kind of walk off into sunset, but they can help it. So then in October, 1910, the imprisoned now, Madero realizes that the only chance for change in Mexico is by force of arms. He realizes that, uh, you know, the concept of free elections joke. So he, uh, he escaped from prison, sneaks United States and from there, launches a plan for the revolution, which calls for people to take up arms against Diaz's dictatorship on November 20th, 1910. And again, if you're new to this, you're like, how do you just think of a prison? Every time we do a time suck set in like the 19th century or early 20th century, people just walked out of fucking prison left and right.

Like I don't want to go back in time for a variety of reasons. It sounds like, but if I have been sentenced to prison, for sure, I want to go back in time for a variety of reasons. It sounds like, but if I have been sentenced to prison for sure, I want to go back in time. Because apparently, uh, with just any tiny bit of ingenuity, you could just walk right on in a prison. You can get out very easily. Seems like people did a lot. People did, if you got sentenced to life in prison in like 1880 or 1910 and like when you were 20 and then you died at 80 in prison, you were a dumb son of a bitch. Uh, there was you, you were just not good at figuring out how to get out of places like at all.

Okay. So he decides, all right, we're going to take up arms against DS November 20th, 1910. Sometime in October, Poncho via meets one of a Madero supporters, supporters, fellow, fellow revolutionary Abraham Gonzalez, who convinces the young outlaw to join their cause, join their fight. And the first social revolution of the 20th century is born killing in the name of, well, fucking Dale Roku for you there. November 20th, 1910. Madero arrives at the border, plans to meet up with the 400 men raised by his uncle, Caterino to launch an attack on C dad, Port Viro Diaz, modern day, Piedra's,

Negras in the state of, gosh dang it. I wrote down a pronunciation, but it's still a tricky for me. Ca, Awila, Ca, Awila, she got the revolution. All right, let's get the greatest machine. And this is hilarious to me. So he's like, all right, he's, you know, he escapes. He makes it to the United States. He's like, all right, man, let's just fucking let's get ready to get some machine and this is hilarious to me. So he's like all right He's you know he escapes. It makes it to the United States. He's like, oh man. Let's fucking go. It's because revolution going And the Sun goes like yeah, no totally. Yeah, we're gonna do it He's like you get the guys for me. He's like, okay. All right, man. I'll see you the border

Yeah, then we're gonna go fucking march Mexico City. We're gonna take shit back his uncle shows up with ten dudes He's like killing in the now what the fuck dude Ha ha ha he's not killing in the now what the fuck dude Dude we're supposed to kick off a revolution today you barely have enough people for a party You know so just wha wha wha So it's but bit of a buzzkill Revolution is on pause putting on hold. We're gonna need more than 10 dudes to storm Mexico City so Instead of fighting with his 10 dudes, Madero and his brother

Raul, they traveled to New Orleans, head over to Louisiana to arrange some more support for the safety of the US. You know, they start making some powerful connections to DC. They're tempted to break the US's connections. You know, gain support of the Washington to overthrow his government. And while he's not able to get official support from the US, he is able to get President Taft to essentially kind of look together way so we can smuggle some arms down to the States of Mexico to, you know, get him into the hands of his growing army of rebels. So you got more than 10 dudes now. Now one of these rebels is Pancho Vio. And in February 1911, but they're all enters Mexico again. And now he's got 130

men, which doesn't seem like a lot to me to kick off for revolution with, but it is far more than 10. And he leads them in a successful attack on Kasi Grande's in Chihuahua. He spends the next several months as the head of the Mexican revolution by April the revolution had spread to now 18 states. So he didn't mean to be making progress. One of the states, regional leaders, a man who would lead troops from Madera and be instrumental in his upcoming victory.

Name will hear a lot in this tail today is a Emiliano Zapata. And on April 7th, Madero via Pasquale, Orozco, uh, along with two hundred, uh, two thousand five hundred untrained men attack Ciudad Juarez, which is being defended by 700 federal soldiers commanded by general Juan Navarro. Madera orders a ceasefire, but via and Oosco, Arosca, uh, continue attacking the city by May 8th. The besieged federal troops occupy a few buildings in the city center. They've run out of water, uh, with fighting restricted to close combat.

The federal army superior artillery, our artillery, uh, was of little use, uh, two days later, Navarro surrenders. And I made 25th, 1911. Madera and his rebels have won Diaz Ress from office and goes into, and he goes to ex-Syland France. So, you know, he started off for 130 dudes and I built up enough momentum to win the war, right? This Diaz would die in Paris a few years later. And Madero is, you know, he's in charge now briefly, briefly though the war had felt, you know, too easily won little or no bloodshed. But then Madero, he fucks up and he sends the armmen who had supported him home. He sends

the rebels home. He's like, yeah, we're good guys. I'm sure the people, uh, Diaz, you know, help keep rich will be totally cool with me kicking them out of the country, uh, we should be super stable now, you know, the wealthy elite of Mexico who've been exploiting everyone and just, you know, continue to be wealthy. They're going to be cool with the national massive social reforms. I feel like making, you know, what are they gonna do? What are they gonna, what are they gonna fight to stay rich? God, God, I never have it. Madero and play some horrific critical thinking skills here.

If only he had been able to subscribe to the great courses plus and feel that little meat sack pilot who lives in his skull. Time suck is brought to you today by the great courses plus. What a perfect fit for this show. You know the time suck is all about doing a by the Great Courses Plus. What a perfect fit for this show. You know the time suck is all about doing a deep dive and the topics that fast knit as exploring everything from serial killers. We're going there on Friday actually to history's biggest mysteries.

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on, I might not have had any of these. I thought it was a load of, you know, you know, crystalline nonsense, but I started doing it. I got this DVD from this David Dorian Ross, Tai Chi guy, and after about three weeks, my back felt better than it had in years. And David Dorian Ross now has his courses on the Great Courses Plus. You can watch or listen anytime with the Great Courses Plus app. I recommend starting your first thing you watch. Start with a deceptive mind, a

scientific guide to critical thinking skills taught by Dr. Steven Neville. It is the cure for idiots of the internet. And right now, you can get a special limited time offer. Go to the great courses plus.com slash time suck to get a free month of unlimited access to all their lectures. That's the great courses plus.com slash time suck. Get that free month. You know, you can do it today and link in the episode description and on the app. Okay, so Madero, he screws up. He doesn't, he doesn't employ any critical thinking.

He keeps DS's old army around him, keeps his old ministers in power, you know, keeps various other structures left in place by DS. It's like, dude, that is not how you fucking do a revolution. Once you get in, you clean house. You know, wasn't that phrase out with the old and with the new around yet? You know, I'm not saying you have to be head all the old house, but maybe a couple, you know, it's proven a good revolutionary tactic.

Vio wasn't happy with Madera's lack of power moves. He knew he was making a mistake. He told him, you sir have destroyed the revolution. It's simple. This, I love he says dandies here. This bunch of dandies has made a fool of you. And this will eventually cost us our necks yours included. Yeah, poncho was deeply saddened by the man who he believed could lead Mexico into a new era of equality being charmed and manipulated by the powers that be. And this is exactly what was happening on November 6, 1911, for Francisco, Madero becomes president of Mexico and his reign does not last long. Some of his supporters, his supposed supporters quickly turn on him. Zapata, who

had been instrumental in defeating Diaz, took to the field again when it became clear that Madero had no real interest in land reform now that he was in power, which is one of the big things they fought for. The old guard had bought the new president, and it was just more of the same. A small group of rich landowners exploiting the much larger working class in Zipada was pissed is exactly what they were supposed to be fighting against. In November of 1911, Zipada calls for Madero's removal, demands land reform names another Mexican revolutionary leader who had fought for the cause as well. Man named Pasquale, Auraska, we talked about chief of the revolution.

Now, Auraska is pissed because Madero didn't reward him at all for his role in the overthrow of Diaz. Madero fucked up. You know, he didn't take care of the people who brought him to the dance. Not only did he tell his army to go lay down their arms, he didn't reward them for the role in the revolution. So they just picked those arms right back up, just killing in the name of their back. They got fucking Zach DeLaroke out in the front. He's riding a horse. They're fighting

again. So so via, I guess still thinking Madera would eventually follow through on his promises via via did truly believe in Madera. He initially defends him, but then, but then he falls under suspicion of one of the old guard of military leaders that Madera had employed. You know, this is tyrant of a general named Victoriano Huerta. And Huerta accuses V of stealing a horse or something to be executed on June of 1912. And it almost happens, like really close, really close, because brought out in front of the firing squad, he's standing there. They're prepared to shoot. And then a telegram from President Madera arrives at the very last second, staying his execution. I can imagine being that close to fire

to pond by a firing squad? There's a picture you can look on it. If you do Google image search, a via standing there, just waiting to be fired upon. And I gotta say, he doesn't look nervous. No tears, no tears, no hands into please, don't kill me, sign. And you gotta reprieve it, the very last moment.

Man, talk about your day turning around. I did not get completely let off the hook though. You got, uh, sent a, sent a jail puts him in prison, uh, for the first time in his life. And it doesn't stay long because again, this is, uh, this is the day is when it's easy to get a prison. December 24th, 1912, you escaped from prison. You just get out and he boards a train for the US. Uh, man, again, now cops can track you down through the DNA and your family tree.

Back then, you know, you just walk on out. January 2nd, 1913, Veeacross is the border in the Gala, Zerosona. Many suspected Madero is the one who actually helps him escape. Man, the Gala's, that's the first place some ex go. I ever set foot about a bullwhip there. Some allowance money when I was about 10. My dad's girlfriend at the time. Julie taught me how to haggle, haggled for that bullwhip, love that whip, learned to crack it, felt like Indiana Jones. If I've been able to talk one of my friends and let me give them a good old crack with that whip, I

can only imagine how satisfying it would have felt. Man, I wanted the neighbor kid Paul. He's the one I fuck I remember wanting just to fucking whip that dude, right? Him and I used to fight all the time. God, I wanted to whip the shit out of him anyway. Now I know that I walked reveal walks. That's pretty cool. February 19th 13 military revolt breaks out in Mexico City. Madero had depended upon a general Huerta. The old general who wanted to hang via to command the government's troops to watch his back But Huerta conspires with the exiled former dictator Diaz to betray Madero. Of course he did

Madero was arrested on some trumped up bull shit and while being transferred to prison, he was conveniently assassinated, gunned down by the escort. So, you know, the old guard got him, just like VIA predicted. And also like VIA predicted, the old guard came after the rest of the revolutionaries.

On February 18, 1913, Huerta becomes president of Mexico. He immediately dissolves the legislature and establishes a military dictatorship and via is a static he's over the moon this is this is exactly what he wanted for Mexico. He grown up under a dictatorship posing as a presidency and what he really wanted was a dictatorship that's just unabashedly squashed motherfuckers who got in their way. He was like finally they get it. No.

No he knew he had to take back Mexico. He had to take up arms, gather all the men he could to fight Huerta, the man who tried to kill him earlier, man who tried to put him in that fire, the band did put him in that fire and squat. He wasn't alone, except for big investors and landowners who were relieved by the return to order. The same idea was now echoing in the hearts of all Mexicans, not in the upper one percent that had been there for a while, throw the jackal out of the presidential chair that

a new guy they needed to pose, you know, new tyrant. So the revolution back on, game back on, back to killing the name of March 19, 13 via crosses the border back into Mexico. So we can shit, get shit back on like Donkey Kong. Now, he had enough to, he wasn't going back there to shit. That same month, where to execute Abraham Gonzalez, current governor of Chihuahua, and a man via considerate a friend and mentor. So if he now takes the takes Chihuahua, he takes the fight to Chihuahua back, takes it

back from where to he and eight men take to the Sierra Madre Mountains to round up followers to join the fight. This is crazy. Like, like, you know, early, they took a started off with 130 dudes. When via, like, it's back in the really get back into, into fighting, he initially has just eight dudes. Him and eight other dudes head out into the mountains, starts a revolution with one bag of flour.

This is the legend, some salt, two bags of coffee, few guns, small amount of ammunition, to gain more weapons, they just attack where does army and take them. Via told us men that the army had everything they needed, they just had to take it from them. How bad is that? You just go with a handful of dudes. What's up from? Besides not having any men, we don't have weapons.

Okay. Alright. Does the much larger enemy were trying to fight have weapons? Lots of them. Alright, let's just go take them. Why didn't anyone else think of that? Just go fucking take them and then use those weapons to kill them. TZP.

I really did show like this. VIA teams up with Vinistiano, Caranza and his old ally Emiliano Zapata to form a division del Norte, division of the North. He goes full John Stark with these motherfuckers on December 19 13. VIA becomes the governor of Chihuahua. Start off with eight dudes, now becomes the governor. This is the same Mexican state he was born in, one he grew up sharecropping in.

Now he's governorin less than a year after takin off into the mountains with a couple of dudes and some coffee. He's only governor for two months, but in that time, he takes a bunch of property from the rich, confiscates a ton of their gold, takes from the banks, redistributes wealth among the poor, establishes heavy taxes to the upper class.

On Christmas day in 1913, he brings together thousands of Chihuahua's poor, gives him 15 pesos each. How about that shit? He's a real man of the people, man of real Robinhood. He also sent his soldiers to patrol the streets, warning them, he would shoot anyone who got drunk or committed burglary. He didn't, he didn't tell while he was fighting, dude, not drink. He told us important to stay sober to keep the revolution going.

Don't go, don't get drunk, you can go crazy and fuck everything up. He also opened several schools, created laws for the protection of orphans and widows, lowered the price of milk and bread. Man, after all that stuff, he resigned from governorship to continue to fight his war, you know, to go back to leading some troops and take back more parts of Mexico. And now I'm officially man crushing on this bad ass son of a bitch. Uh, he didn't always, uh, you know, just suggest formations and then a way to see how it turned out when he was a leading in battle. He actively fought alongside his men and many of the battles. He was out there on horseback, firing his fucking pistols,

bandleleers, crosses chest and the midst of the action was a great shot. He was an excellent writer. Then in January 1914, VIA does something so unbelievably innovative and badass. It doesn't seem real to me. He signs a deal with the Hollywood production company. This is not one of my lies. He signs a deal with the Hollywood production company, the Mutual Film Company, to have them actually film like real battles, the film several of his actual battles for American newsreels and moviegoers.

What the hell? Under the terms of the agreement, the Rebels undertook to fight the revolution for the benefit of movie cameras in exchange for a large advance, payable and gold. He got $25,000, you know, US dollars worth of gold up front to help finance his revolution by some more guns and he gets a big chunk of any back end profits for the picture. And sadly, what a lot of the footage has been lost, these crazy bastards actually filmed live battles, right? They're out there with cameras filming people in the midst of fighting. People being shot and killed, you know, a cameraman out there, I guess just hope and not

to get shot themselves. And then the mutual film company mixes in some scenes of these real battles with some scenes of actors telling poncho story to form an narrative. And it ends up being an hour and 45 minute film that was finished on May 9, 1914 called the life of general via. The film featured scenes of battle, scenes of execution by firing squad, scenes of peasants who had knocked the teeth out of corpses with rocks in the wake of firing squads in order to harvest their gold fillings. Those scenes were apparently so graphic they caused projectionists to vomit and screening rooms back in Los Angeles. And sadly, you can only watch a few minutes of it today. Lost a history.

Damn it. The only reason we even have a few clips today is because Edmundo and Felix Padilla, father and son team who distributed films to Spanish-speaking American audiences. In the 1920s and 1930s, they'd put together multiple films about VIA, with that mundo releasing the Revenge of Ponceville VIA in 1936, a film that used segments of numerous other silent films, including the life of General VIA. And the clips that he used are the only clips we have left.

Maybe the full film will turn up in a janitor's closet one of these days, like that early 20 that early 20th century, Joan of Arc sign that film did. Man, if someone can find a copy of that film, thoughts to be lost, right? Man, you are, you are hitting a lottery. That's going to be worth millions. However, making a huge profit off of VIA's revolution does sound like a surefire way to be haunted by an army of angry Mexican ghosts. On March, 1914 1914, via and his men, they start marching from Mexico. See, they get that Hollywood money now. They got their arms. They're going to find that rat bastard. Where the?

Uh, via Northern division had grown to more than 50,000 men, all of them paid. Most of them on horseback. They had come a long way from eight dudes to back to coffee. His army included moving hospitals with the capacity to serve more than a thousand injured, as well as volunteer doctors, Mexicans, and foreigners alike. It was a brutal force for the time. The largest revolutionary army in the history of the Americas up until that point. Vias forces have become so impressive. The US president, Woodrow Wilson, who had invested interest and who won the war, you know, as the US was receiving cheap goods from Mexico and had a lot of investments in Mexico, chose to back via saw him as the, as the wind

and horse, you know, this made it easier for via to get guns and ammunition now from the United States and exchange for Wilson's support via respected American property in Mexico avoided confiscated anything from Americans living there. He also influenced many Mexican farmers, unable to withstand the pressure to sell their land to the Americans whom via would now leave alone, let them sell it because Via could sell livestock and other products to the U.S. man who's just again that much easier to earn money, earn more money to buy more weapons ammunition supplies. So he, you know, he builds an army capable of, you know, openly battling the forces of the federal government. They don't have to fight realistile anymore. Vian is division, Dilnorte, capture the city of Torion,

Zakatikas, Zakatikas. Strategic locations in northern Mexico with important mineral and communication resources in 1914, their kickin' ass, they're bringing modern artillery weapons into the ranks, they were impressively fighting for, so impressive that Wilson sent military leaders down there to study them, study,

a VIA's movement, studies techniques. And on June 11th, 1914, 89 to 90th battalions led by generals one, G, Zobaranas, and Alberto Rodriguez, Sarillo, occupy the state of Zac, Zacatecas, fellow revolutionary, Vente Suena, Venus, Vinesiano, Caranza, the leader of the rebellion, a man who would become the first president of a New Mexican Republic when things were all said and done, asked Via to send a portion of the division of the North to aid, insisting that they were not led though by Via himself. He was too important to the cause to continue to fight directly,

and Via was basically like, yeah, fuck that. He decided to bring all his division of the North Army to, uh, Zuck, uh, Zuckatechus, uh, enacted a defiance that would create a growing gap of discord between V and Karanza. It was funny thing about V.A. Man. He just, uh, he did not like politicians, uh, generally even when they were on his team. Uh, on June 22nd, V.A. arrives, opens a can of whoop ass in Zuckatechus, uh, when the revolutionary sees fire at 6 p.m., 6,000 where estas, 1500 veistas and 2,000 civilians had fallen. So, you know, 6,000 of the enemy army, 1500 of his own men fall.

The veistas, the men and women who fought for Pontovia, gained a considerable booty of 12,000 Mausers, machine guns, 19 cannons, countless number of explosive, 5,000 federal prisoners. This is the battle that has said to have broken who had to spine figuratively. He was able to still walk, but his shoulders are slumped now, his eyes were watery and his outlook was gloomy. Women by the way did fight for via. They were called sold, sold the dead as or Adelitas and some of them fought in the infantry. Some of them fought in the cavalry and some even led troops.

So he'll lose the Fena. One of the most famous female combatants was Petra Herrera or Petra Ruiz. At the beginning, she dressed as the man, took the given name of Pedro, joined the ranks of Via's army. She kept her identity as secret and tell she had big knowledge as a great soldier. Once she built her reputation, she let her hair grow, played it into braids, resumed her female identity. According to one of VIA's troops, Herrera was the person who should have been credited for the seed of the town of Torion. However, VIA was not willing to have a female take credit as an

important role in a battle. It's having an important role in a battle. And therefore, she was never given what she deserved. And the result of her lack of acknowledgement, she left VIA's troops, formed her own troop of all female soldiers, became an ally of Caranza and his army and became another legend of revolution. And Pancho, let his big male ego get in the way, lost some troops. Oh wow, it's no, no, it's perfect. July 15th, 1914, Huerta resigns the presidency's elastic tadership fleeced to Spain. Right, in August 1914, Caranza enters Mexico City becomes the first president of the new Mexican Republic. Vía has now fought for and helped install two separate leaderships

in Mexico, just a few years. And again, this leadership does not, does not last long. On October of 1914, representatives of what have become known is, is the big four among revolutionary leaders. Vía, Zapata, Karanza, Obrigone, as well as several smaller independent rebel leaders meet at the convention of Agua, Agua's Calientes, hoping to agree on a course of action that would bring peace to the nation. Unfortunately, the peace efforts fail. The big four goes to war via against Karanza Zapata against anyone who enters his fiefdom in Morelos.

The wild card is Obrigone. He decides to stick with Karanza on December 6th via and Zapatas troops and our Mexico city. VIA's army consists of 50,000 troops. Oh man. Zapatta has 15,000 and then Caronza leaves the city entirely to avoid dealing with them for now. So then, uh, then Pancho VIA famously sits in Mexico's presidential chair in early December 1914.

Just a few seconds. Just have his picture taken with his friend, the Miliano Zapata. He never was a president of Mexico. Although he could have been right there. Could have declared himself president that day, if you wanted, but he just didn't like politicians, had no interest in becoming one.

How cool is that, you know? Could have taken the crown, but preferred fighting for the poor directly. Felt his place was on the battlefield, not behind the desk. It was the first time someone from the indigenous working class had ever taken over Mexico, but Vieta didn't want the job while in Mexico City, he did take some orphan children, send them to Chihuahua gave him shelter food and education.

He also visited the tomb of Francisco, Madero. The first guy he got in power to pay his respects and legend has it. And while visiting his grave, he exc exclaimed, here in this place, I swear I will fight till the end for those ideals. My sword is belong, belongs, and will belong to the people. Words fail me, and then he burst into tears. So he meant he was seriously dedicated to the cost. And then in 1915, the fighting continues.

In 1915, it would actually be the bloodiest year of the revolution. VIA's success in battle had made him reckless. He felt untouchable at this point. Uh, he'd had so much success. He just went to his head, his right hand man, Felipe Angelus was a brilliant military strategist and then in 1915 he starts to just kind of not listen to him. He's poncho motherfucking via.

No one tells poncho what to do other than poncho and even then sometimes he doesn't listen. Poncho wants to hear another man's thoughts. He'll take his boot out of that man's ass. Let him talk for a second. Only God can advise Ponsho and even then not while he's making love. God will wait till Ponsho finishes with his woman. He's Ponsho via. No, but success is really gone to his head. He ceases to be an effective military commander. Vien Zapata felt that they could take the remnants of the old federal army now being led by Aliveiro, Obrigan, Felipe tries to make him see how dangerous it is to overextend his supply line points out that better than fight right now, why don't

we wait for the enemy in the north where the division can receive assistance if necessary, you know, from from above from the States. Vee though is like, nah, he's like this guy can't take me. He's like, there's just go now. He calls him the sweet smelling Obrigan. He thinks he will flee as soon as he sees a Pancho Vee in the fight. You know, he's Pancho fucking Vee. You wouldn't have to fire a shot. He thinks he'll just walk out and to feel the battle whip his dick out and he'll just lay the weapons down and exchange for him, promising not to beat them to death with his mixed controls

or Python. Meanwhile, Zapata is a hold up in Morelos and a state of semi-truth with Caron. He really leaves the city. He's not, he's not as gun-hotified as his poncho is. And then a poncho decides whatever. Let's do it myself. So on April 4, 1915, Obrigán moves his force from Guadatero to a small town of Celaya, which is built on a flat plain alongside a river, Obrigán dug in, placing his machine guns and building trenches, daring via to attack him.

Felipe Angeles begs Pacho to leave him alone, meet even batter, battle somewhere else, you know, where he can't just use his mighty machine guns to bear down on VS forces. But VIA's like, now man, we're good. He doesn't want to, he doesn't want his men to think he's scared. He prepares for a frontal assault, which is, which is not smart when you have guys on horses. And you're, uh, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm no, I'm no military leader, but if you have a bunch of dudes on horses and the dude, your fighting has a bunch of dudes in trenches, fortified, fortified trenches with machine guns pointed towards the horses, maybe rethink

your assault. Uh, but V is like, no, machine guns be damned. Uh, poncho V is men with the most elite cavalry in the world at this point. They were very skilled in horseback. They were trained to ride and shoot with perfection is his cavalry had never been defeated. But again, eventually, you know, if horse meets horse meets enough gun horse loses. Obrigan's ready. He suspects a V.A. would send in wave after wave of veteran cavalry men cavalry men. Jesus Christ.

He was right. He positioned his barbed wire trenches and machine guns in anticipation of the horses. And at dawn on April 6, 1915, Ubrugan makes the first movie. He sends a large force of 15,000 men to occupy the strategic El Guade ranch. This is initially seems like a mistake. Viet had already set up troops there. Ubrugan's men are met with blistering rifle fire. He's forced to send out small diversionary squads to attack other parts of Viet's forces to distract him. He manages to pull his men back, but not before it's a standing serious losses. However, when he orders his men to fall back behind the machine guns, VIA pursues thinking he can crush him now, sends his cavalry in and the horses

get caught up in the barbed wire, they're cut to pieces by machine guns and riflemen. Rather than retreat, VIA just keeps sending in wave after wave after wave of cavalry. And each time they are repulsed, each time they are cotton barbed wire, their mode down, you know, their sheer numbers and skill almost break his line on several occasions, overgones, but they don't. And being his men are forced to retreat for the night on dawn on April 7th, the back at it sends into cavalry again. He sends no less than 30 cavalry charges that day.

And each time they're beaten back with each charge becomes more difficult for the horsemen. The ground is now, you know, literally slippery with blood, littered with the dead bodies of men and horses late in the day. The vee used to begin running low on ammunition and over gone sensing this sends his own cavalry back now against via. The he didn't keep enough forces and reserve and his army is routed. The mighty division of the North retreats to Arapato or Arapwoto to lick its wounds. Via lost some 2000 men in two days. Most of them his best cavalrymen. And then both men called for replacement troops. Via attempted to go to Obrigan and to the plan where he knew his northern division would be able to defeat them. Excuse me, onto the plane where he knew they'd be able to defeat him. And Obrugan is not fooled by taunting and remains fortified.

April 13th, 1915, Viet convinced himself that the previous route had been due to a lack of ammunition and bad luck and he taxed again. He had not learned from mistakes. He sent in just more waves of cavalry. He tempted to soften up Obrugan's line with artillery, but most of the shells missed the soldiers and the trenches and just kind of scattered around, fell nearby, not hurting anybody. Once again, overgones, machine guns and riflemen cut the cavalry to pieces. You know, VIAs elite cavalry, you know, they did test overgones defenses, but they're driven back every single time. It has now become

the definition of insanity. He just keeps trying the same thing over and over and over, expecting different results and he doesn't get them. The fighting continues until the 14th and then on that evening after heavy rain, via Pulse is forces back the 15th, April 15th, over gone counter attacks again. He had once again kept a lot of his cavalry and reserve and he turns them loose his dawn breaks. The division of the North low on ammunition exhausted after you know, days, continual straight days of fighting. They crumble. Men scatter, leave behind weapons, ammunition and supplies.

Vias losses are devastating. At the second battle of Salleja, he lost 3000 more men, 1000 more horses, 5000 rifles, 32 cannons. In addition, some 6000 of his men have been taken prisoner. The number of men who are wounded, uh, who are wounded, excuse me, is not known, but it must have been considerable. Obragon had scored a resounding victory against VIA. His reputation grew mildly. His VIA had rarely lost any battle and never had lost a battle of such magnitude. However, Obragon solies his victory with a very kind of underhanded act here amongst the prisoners that he

had taken were several of VIA's officers who had cast aside their uniforms and were undistinguishable indistinguishable from common soldiers and ever gone informs the prisoners that there would be amnesty for officers if they were just simply declared themselves and they would be set free. So 120 do admit they were VIA's officers and he just sends all of them to the fire in squad next to you to all of them. So the Battle of Salehia is one of the most important in the story of Pontio V. It's the start of his decline. Until this loss, the Mexican people thought of him as unstoppable, right? He was a master tactician. No one could touch this guy,

and then this view is shattered with this loss at Salaia. The Battle of Salaia is the last time V would control an army of that size. Why didn't he just adjust his tactics? Why didn't he try something else? A lot of historians think he was sleepy. By a lot of historians, I mean only me. He probably would have won the battle, I think. You know, his men would have been able to have a decent, you know, chance if he would have had a decent night's sleep

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Which either means they are really really into our Lisa mattress or they are accepting lazy dogs I don't want to get out of bed in the morning. I'm a Lisa mattress because they sleep so well. And I love, and I love sleep. And I bet you love sleep and I bet you love good sleep. So get your own Lisa mattress. Get $106 off of Lisa mattress at Lisa.com slash time suck. That's L E E S A dot com slash time suck Lisa a better place to sleep, link in the episode description. All right. April 29th, June 5th, 1915, general Angela's urges via to regroup in Chihuahua. Now, I forget his ass kicked, but instead he moves what's left of the division of the

north to Guano Wanto, Guanto, about 100 kilometers north of Celaya. Angela's recommends that via take a defensive position as secure place, but via instead chooses an indefensible location between Leon and Trinidad, he bunks down in a 20 kilometer trench, man's of troops. Obergon could not lead a full assault with his forces. So he orders several lightning strikes against the bunker. The battle drags on for 50 days, longest in the revolution, which little territorial, yeah, territorial gain for anyone. Sepata eventually sends a large contingent to cut off Obracan's lines of communication, but Obracan reestabishes his contacts and wins another decisive victory.

The battle of Trinidad now costs via 3000 casualties and a cost Obracan is right arm, literally, severed above the elbow by an artillery shell. Surgeons barely manage to save his life. That's a tough day, man. You're very happy you won the battle, but you're pretty bummed that an artillery shell blew off your arm. Man, so much respect for veterans who have been wounded in battle. Pretty damn amazing to inspire what you heroes have been able to endure.

On October 19, 15, VIA retreats to Sonora, where he plans to regroup and attack again, however, Karanza has reinforced Sonora and VIA is defeated. VIA heads back to Sonora where he plans to regroup and attack again. However, Caronza has reinforced Sonora and VIA is defeated. VIA heads back to Chihuahua October 19, 19, 19, 15, the US government recognizes that tides have turned. VIA, VIA is not going to win. They know that the Mexican government led by Caronza's and charge now, and that's who they recognize.

December 19, 15, it's evident to VIA's officers that Obergon and Caron's had won most of the division of the North except an offer of amnesty and switches sides. VIA himself is like, ah, I'm going back to the mountains. It's grabbed some fucking coffee. A couple guns. We're going to wait this out. This time I said, A dude, he takes 200 of his most dedicated man and he just goes out of the mountains and he's like, no, man, we're going to keep fighting.

He's a stubborn son of a bitch, man. He's just like, ah, fuck it. I won with eight before. I can win with 200. I got this. So in 1916, Pancho Vía has his Mexican army. They've lost US support. They're up high to the mountains. You know, the US is back to Coranza

to protect their investments. Then on March 9th, 1916, Vía, he's pissed about all this. He attacks Columbus, New Mexico. He really kind of messes up here. He has 400 dudes. He's doubled his 200, Mexico. He really kind of messes up here. He has 400 dudes. He's doubled his 200 man. He has a little force of 400 dudes, and he makes an attack on US soil. The plan is to defeat the small garrison, military garrison in Columbus, make office

and weapons and ammunition. Same plan he had before, man. He's like, you know, let's attack another army to provide our own army with more weapons and ammunition. But this time, he attacks an American army on American soil and, uh, and the attack fails basically on every level. Uh, the, the, the garrison is much more fortified than VIA had suspected. So they weren't able to get the weapons. The bank, uh, they were also going to rob, it goes unrobed in the area and, um, and, uh, yeah, it does, it does not work out for them but the the the fame via gain by having the guts to attack a town in the u.s.

uh... does give him kind of a new lease on life with recruitment though so i guess it succeeds in that way recruits are now a joint in his army again you know the thing is pretty bad-ass that he was uh... brave enough to attack the americans and uh... you know word of his deeds is spread and far and wide again romanticized uh... he gets his mojo back, but he did kill 18 Americans. And that does not go unnoticed by the US government. And now, uh, former fan, President Wilson orders the military to capture him.

On March 15th, 1916, general Jack Pershing, uh, a man who had, uh, one studied via his military tactics and five thousand American soldiers cross the board in Mexico to hunt down Pancho via. Uh, and Pershing's quest was doomed from the start. The people of Mexico loved via. They still love this dude. He's still a Robin Hood. And just like they didn't assist the Mexican government in helping capture me years

earlier, they do not assist the Americans now. And then via is able to return to his youthful tactics of just hiding out in the mountains. And late March, he's wounded in a skirmish and he spends two months recovering alone in the mountains and hitting cave. He disperses his men into small squads, tells them to continue to fight while he heals. And he apparently passed the time, reading an early 20th century comic that had recently become popular in Mexico, especially among the working class. It was knockoff of the popular American comic, Pudi and Ju-ju.

It's called Paco Iwanita, popular for their catchphrases, Pono and Tu L'Oncedo Shirley, and Mui Poco, Tambien Diel Pudi. His favorite episode was Paco Iwanita, numero 10, Nueve. Paco, say un alavaro, ala, revolution. In this episode, the bank Paco works at

in Chihuahua's Rob by Pancho via himself. And in addition to giving him the money, Paco quits his job and joins the revolution. La gravita, a la va rochone. Juanita is not happy. His Paco's turn to make dinner that night and he was going to make one of his favorite meal and Chaladas de Pollo con queso extra. So she had to on her horse, Panique Pueblo and took off after Paco, who was riding their

other horse, Capagna de enhibre. Juanita found Paco, hold up riding their other horse, Capania, Dei, Henghibre. Juanita found Paco, hold up in a mountain camp that night with Pancho. He'd already killed 10 Soldados Federales. I was now making his special insolados for Pancho and the other men. Juanita screamed, I was predido la cabez, Paco. No, Toro Estabian Juanita said,

Pudi, Mui Poco tambien deal Pudi. And then Pancho rose to his feet, walked over and kiss Juanita. And yes, in the Mexican version, Juju is definitely a shea. Juanita immediately fell in love and would give birth to a son nine months later from just that kiss. That's all. That's how potent Ponto's love was. And Paca would raise this, this boy is his own, not only upset, that not only not upset that Ponto had impregnated Juanita, but honored. And that child would grow up to become the inspiration for the dosekis, most interesting

man in the world. Elefine. And back now, sorry, new listener, that, uh, that must have been incredibly jarring. Nimrod demands that putty and juju or a Spanish version of them or some other version show it from time to time. And I must please Nimrod Hill Nimrod. Mueh Polk, Autambian, Diel Pude, April 13th, 1916. Not only had American forces still not captured via now, they're being attacked by Caronzes, federal troops near Paral, which may sound odd at first, right? These guys are trying to get Caronzes, uh, enemy.

And Caronzes is like, nah, I'm attacking you too. And he did that because he didn't give Wilson permission to send troops across the board, even if they were pursuing a man who was his enemy. June 16th, or I'm sorry, June 1916, Mexican American relations suffered another blow when federal troops engaged two troops, the 10th US cavalry near Carrizal and the fighting seven Americans are killed 23 are captured. And then they decided to head home January 27th. I guess they had a little while after that. It was a little while after that. By by January 27, 1917, they decided to head home. Persion begins to head back to the US to bananene his fruitless

search for via via still in the hills, the mountains in northern Mexico, where he would continue to attack small federal garrisons and elude capture until 1920 when the political situation finally changed and felt comfortable coming out of hiding. I do think that's hilarious. That like general person is down there trying to get via, trying to get to dude that, Karanza is also trying to get, but Karanza doesn't like that they're there without his permission.

He's like, no, no, no, we got this. You get, and then he fights him. And meanwhile, via still just eludes capture from everyone, just still just hides out the mountains. Uh, okay. Meanwhile, VIA still just for a loose capture from everyone, just still just hides out the mountains. Okay. So on April 10th, 1919, VIA's old allies Zapata is killed in an ambush most likely orchestrated by Ulbrigan. I think these guys are, these former revolutionary,

you know, team members are turning on each other, have been turning on each other. Then on June 1st, 1919, Ulbrigan announces his campaign for presidency against Caronza. On May 21st, 1920, Caronza on May 21st, 1920, Caronza assassinated Vias former ally and foe now dead. He feels comfortable that he can come out of hiding. Then from June 1st, in November 30th, 1920, Adolfo De la Huerta, access president.

He was appointed interim president by the Congress. This Huerta, uh, completely unrelated to the earlier general Huerta, Pablo had fought against July 1920, punch of a 900 men ride to Sabinus, uh, Cojila, uh, completely unrelated to the earlier general Huerta, Pablo had fought against July, 1920, punch of a 900 men ride to Sabinus, uh, Cojila, uh, send a telegram to De La Huerta, recognize, uh, they, you know, saying they recognize his government, request amnesty. The death of Caron's is a big opportunity for punch of via begins negotiations with the government to disarm and stop fighting. Although, although, over the gone was against it, provincial president, adult vote De La Huerta sees it as an opportunity and brokers to deal with via in July. And

then via is given a large Hacienda, 25,000 acre farm called Cantoludo, 500,000 gold pesos. Many of his men join him, veterans are all given a must-train outpay. He's allowed to keep 200 of his men from the Northern Division, 50 of which would serve as personal bodyguards. An amnesty is declared for VIA, his officers and his men. Eventually, even open a gun, saw the wisdom of peace with VIA, honors the deal. And he goes from sharecropper to Hasey end owner. And not too many years, really. Not bad. VIA settles in to farm life, gets to work. He brings in machinery, installs workshops, one of his first actions is to build a school, which he named Felipe Angelos School in honor of his military strategist, quickly his ranch begins to plant wheat, corn, and beans. He establishes a bank in order

to give credit to other farmers. He wants his farm to be a model of how all Mexicans farms, Mexico's farms can be in October, 1920, V is old ally and, uh, and then enemy and then kind of ally, Obdi Gahn is elected president, takes over in December and the revolution is over. Man, so much just, uh, changing out of the car. Just so much. It's year after year. This is a new regime in power. Uh, despite the attack on American soil, the Americans, uh, the American press once again

falls in love with Vian, his story, he becomes a working class folk hero north of the border as well as south. On June 22, 1922, uh, VIA makes what will be a fatal mistake. He does an interview for L universal, uh, the newspaper in Mexico. And while he denies that he'll take up arms against Obedign, uh, the still battle ready 44 year old poncho also warns that quote, I am a real soldier. I can mobilize 40,000 soldiers in 40 minutes. I love, I love the bravado. There are thousands of Mexicans who are still my supporters.

He also makes it clear that he wants Adolfo de la Huerta to win the upcoming presidential election by saying Adolfo is very intelligent, very patriotic, and he will be a good president. Then he whips his dick out and he beats the reporter to death. And that's what people thought was too far Feel it feel the wrath of my Mexican trials or Python. Of course that doesn't doesn't happen The interview doesn't go well with Obedagon because you know this guy who's in charge now via his saying like, hey man Any any fucking time 40 minutes. I can get 40,000 dudes any claims, you know support for this for the dude who's running against the guy in power and If we've learned anything in this episode, it's it, you know, that's how you, that's

how you die. If you don't support the guy in power in Mexico and during this, uh, or nearly 20th and 19th centuries, um, July 29th, uh, 1923 via leaves Peroll, little village to head to nearby, uh, to his nearby Hacienda. He takes only a few bodyguards with him. Instead of the roughly 50, he'd recently been using Pancho V. He's just 45 years old. And that morning he speaks to one of his guards.

I guess maybe he had a premonition about his death saying, I say, Paral is a good place to die. Who can assure us this won't be the last time we see each other? Now, is this legend added later? Or did he really feel his own death approaching? We'll never know. As he approaches Paral, Paral, there were no police in the streets. As it turned out, there were dozens of snipers hiding in town waiting for him. The snipers had bribed an old man who

sold candy in town to run in front of the car, shouting, Viva, uh, Viva Via once, if Via was driving in twice, if he was in the backseat, about eight o'clock in the morning, the Dodge Via was driving past us through the designated part of town. The old man runs out. He yells at once, assassins pop out and just rain gunfire down upon his car. Like this is, this is like Bonnie and Clyde, final shootout, kind of gunfire. You know, they just stay light up his car. And VIA who'd been driving was killed almost instantly. The three other men in the car with him were also killed, including the chauffeur and VIA's

personal secretary and one bodyguard who later died of his injuries. Another bodyguard was injured. I guess one did live because another bodyguard was injured, but managed to escape. I don't know why I said everybody. Total of 40 shots came down in the car, nine of which had via four of them hit him in the head. They were taking no chances. They fired dumb dumb bullets, which are rounds normally used for hunting big game because

they're designed to expand greatly on impact for further damage. They just obliterate him on a July 21st, 1923, Pancho V is buried in the parole cemetery, the principal of the, uh, school that his hacienda gave the address of his funeral. He demanded justice as well for Pancho V. The question of who killed Pancho was on everyone's lips. V had many enemies. The enemies included, of course, the person most people think did it. President Alveiro Oregón, right? They clashed many times in the field of battle. You know, Oregón generally emerging victorious, the two remained on speaking terms since his

surrender, but, you know, Oregón, you know, smartly feared V as popularity and reputation. Didn't like what he had said in the paper. You know, again, he knew that if Via rebelled, you could make real trouble for him. So it's better off, uh, better off for him to be dead. Minister of the interior Plutarcho, Elias, Kaya's is also suspected. Uh, Kaya's was a northern like via become a general in the revolution by 1915. He was a shrewd politician, align himself with winners throughout the conflict bouncing around from side to side.

He held important posts and state governments and caronsa made him minister of the interior and he helped Obrigan betray caronsa a close ally of Obrigan. He stood to take the presidency in 1924. He hated via having fought him in the revolution on more than one occasion and it was well known that via oppose kaias economic policies. So maybe maybe the two of them worked together, you know, maybe Kaia's and Obragana worked together to get him out. There was a melaton, Losoia could have been behind it, used with the user administrator of the Haseyenda before it was given to via. So you know, he probably didn't really love having his land taken from him and given over to via. Also, Losoia had embezzled huge sums from the Haseyenda while he wasn't charged

and via demanded it back or else. The gift was apparently on such a scale that Lasolio could not hope to repay it and he may have killed via just to avoid, you know, being killed for failing to repay this, this debt. There was also Jesus Harada. The Harara family had been loyal via supporters at the outset of the revolution. Macclovio and Lewis Louise Harada had been officers in his army. They betrayed him, however, and joined Caranza. Macclovio and Louise were killed in the Battle of Torreón via captured Jose. They lose Harada in March of 1919 and executed him in his two sons. Jesus Harada, the lone surviving member of the family, was a sworn via enemy after all that. Yeah, not surprising. And had to try previously to assassinate him numerous times. There was another.

previously to assassinate him numerous times. There was another, uh, hey, sus, hey, sus, Salas Baraza. Uh, Salas was another old revolutionary who had joined the fight against Victor, Victoriano Huerta. After Huerta's defeat, Salas joined Obligone in Caronza against via 1922 selected congressman from Durango. Never forgot his old grievances against via. Uh, there was the governor of Durango, uh, Jesus Augustine Castro is fucking so many Jesus. Uh, Castro was another former foe via supportive caranza. So there's a lot of people, you know, uh, down there and also the American government, uh, could have been the American government, right? You know, he never did. They never did capture him. Uh, he was a wild card who would attack that new Mexican army outpost. He was a constant threat to destabilize Mexico, where the US had a lot of money still invested. Still had

oil down there. They wanted to keep it flowing and they were back in the current government. So that's, that's possible. We'll never know for sure. Could have been a combination of the above suspects. Probably it was the current president's old but gone. So that's, that's that. And in 1926, VIA's tomb is broken into.

His coffin was torn to pieces. His corpse, been taken out his head was chopped off. Legend has it that some insane, unnamed wealthy collector of famous people's heads ended up with it. Seriously, apparently there was legend. There was some dude out there who had a collection of the heads of famous people, uh, could be just an urban legend.

By the time officials had reached the cemetery, souvenir hunters had gotten to the body, begun cutting off pieces, uh recently, it's 2010. The Wall Street Journal reported that Pancho vias alleged right index finger was for sale in a pawn shop in El Paso for about 10 grand. 1976, what was left of Pancho vias remains without the head. That was never recovered. Move to the monument of the revolution where all of the other heroes of the war are laid to rest. He now sleeps beside his old friend, Madero, that one politician he left. In 1991, a statue of he was unveiled in Tucson, a punch will be his son and granddaughter worth a ceremony.

I mean, his son had to be old as shit. I had a statue on the highest point of Zakatikas, whereas most important battle during the revolution was won as well. Or he has that statue now. And that takes us out of today's time suck timeline. Good job, soldier. You made it back. Barely. about any pronunciation blunders. I did my best. Some of those words were a little easier than others.

Poncho, man, he was a man who, according to one newspaper journalist, could march a hundred miles without stopping, live a hundred days without food, go a hundred nights without sleep, and kill a hundred men without remorse. In his own words, Poncho describes himself as a man whose sole ambition is to rid Mexico of the class that has oppressed her and give the people a chance to know what real liberty means.

And if I could bring that about today by giving up my life, I would do it gladly. That's what he said. And I believe him. He's a brave fighter, man who stuck to his ideals of liberation for the poor until the very end. You know, a lot of people consider him a ruthless kind of murderer, you know, and a womanizer. He was very fond of mistresses, but you know, no one's perfect. Yeah, he did kill a lot of people, but it was kind of, you know, a time of ongoing war.

He definitely seemed to be braver than anyone I know, and he seems like a damn hero to me. But that's just what I think. What does the ignorant, hard thing? Let's find out on today's Idiots of the Internet. Idiots of the Internet. All right. This week under a video titled Punchle V on the Border, which shows a little of that footage that wasn't lost from the life of General Via, that lost movie, I found one of the most

prolific and furious idiots I've seen in the while on the web. Someone who goes on YouTube by the username of Aztec empire. The rage of the Aztec empire is triggered when YouTube user, uh, adversary, American posts. Well, when poncho via heard that the American army was coming, he ran all the way back into Mexico and he hid like a scared little girl. Otherwise it takes no balls to attack an undefended town, which is what poncho via as bandits did on multiple occasions. And instead got their asses handed to them by those same, quote unquote white people whom they ra they rated and the white people didn't cover their ears. They fought him and they defeated his veeces and combat and Aztec empire like really does

not care for this doesn't like it. He fuck he hates it. He replies with one of the angriest rants. I've seen it. I've read in a while on YouTube saying adversary American bitch. You speak like a coward. You and the white Yankees were cowards. Look, you fucking idiot. Pantyl VIA defeated USA and USA soil and in Mexico. Tell me this. Why didn't they capture him or destroy his army? How you stupid fuck like it or not? The truth is Pantyl VIA beat USA.

Made them look like a bunch of pussies. I bet you will never ever say some shit like that to Pontial via faces. Nor will you say it in front of me nor any Mexican. Then he goes all caps. You coward Pontial via defeated the USA and you just can't accept the truth of it. Like it or not Pontial via and his army of rebels wanted like it or not. Heal they to put the Madre which loosely translates according to Google translate as son of your mother slut. And then he goes back to, you know, lowercase, but still angry. You are just too blind and a fucking stupid fuck.

This is, he's still going, a poncho via defeated USA, you said that like so many times. I don't know. Remember the ass will be poncho via hide out sometimes because he had no weapons nor men to fight USA at first Due to the fact of his early battles that he had lost man, but he never ran bitch. He fought them out of Mexico bitch USA went back home with nothing but defeat while poncho via continued to destroy more border town and another thing All the white fox he killed was out of revenge from what Texas Rangers were doing to innocent Mexicans who've been living in Texas, new

Mexico that were being killed by Texas Rangers who are cowards. That's why poncho via and his warriors destroyed USA border towns and killed thousands of USA soldiers in Mexico, like cutting off their ears and feeding them to wild coyotes and wild dogs in the end, Pancho via one the war and USA could not do shit about it, but except the fact that a poor ass Mexican gave them a beat down lesson to remember, don't fuck with Mexico. Viva Pancho via Iviva Mexico. So go on bitch, cry Pancho via one. Ha ha, like it or not.

Wow, that was a lot of info. That was a lot of rage. Asda Campar just threw it is. Not sure how much it was true. Like Asda Campar, I am a fan. I'm a fan of Pancho via. I don't doubt there were some things. The ranger had gotten to some controversial stuff in the border. They did kill some Mexican citizens for sure.

I have no reason to hide ponchos exploits. Did not come across in my research anything about feeding thousands of American years to coyotes or as we call a night of coyotes. I feel like that would have come up on a top 10 list. You know, number one, poncho v of fed thousands of ears to coyotes. That's a detail, you know, damn well, I would have included. Okay, sorry if you can hear the police siren that I can hear. That's a detail, you know, damn well, I would have included. Okay. Sorry if you can hear the police siren that I can hear. If you can't, don't even worry about it.

Okay, then use your Jason's frontier. He sees Aztec, Empire's rant and decides, you know what? Why don't I shake this hornet's nest up a little bit? He posts, I think you need a speaking spell. Your gibberish is hard to understand. The freedom you want is real awesome. Car tells, filth, dirty water, kidnapping, bad economy, corruption, I'm just about everything. It's the great, if the great freedom that you fought for and are so proud of, why are you

enthralled about coming to the USA? If Mexico is such an awesome, free, proud country, why would anyone want to leave? If you send a nasty comeback full of hate words and names and maybe you're the one who needs an education, that's kind of, that's kind of a weird thing to put in. What a dickhead move by Jason. Like he shits on the country, borderline, you know, I guess maybe not racist, but it doesn't feel good. What are you saying?

You know, like his perception of the country is a little skewed. And then he's like, but don't, if you send something angry back, then you need the near the dummy. Come on, did you're just trying to riling? Clearly, well, it works. As take a prior response with as expected, so much rage, hate and some more questionable facts. He says, Jason's frontier, look, you idiot. We Mexicans are at homeland. We didn't cross the border, the border crossed us. And we are happy. Don't worry about Mexico. Mexico is doing just fine. We're about your own fucked up nation. You fucks. You fucks have a clown as president. Trump. Ha ha. Your own nation has already fallen apart. Mexico is getting richer and stronger. Don't believe. Just look it up. The economy

show you in 2050. Your nation will be shit. No more, not even a world power, but Mexico will, though. Don't hate us for having love and pride in our country. You white fucks are not even at your own land. America is not yours. America will always be for the real Americans like us and all the Native Americans. You whites came to our lands. And now we are just taking back within your own nation. Just look around you.

There's more Mexicans and whites. Why did you whites come here? No. Why did you whites came here? No. why did you whites came here? No? Anyway, I don't know what you trying to say there, but then if then he says you know Oh, no one invited you fucks here. You all just came here. Now we are doing the same so fuck you. Okay Pretty racist against whites. I don't care for that part But gotta say his point of no one invited you you just came here and now we're doing the same in your land

That's pretty that's pretty funny. That the same in your land. That's pretty, that's pretty funny. That's pretty funny to me. That's pretty true. You know, if you want to think about history, no one wanted the initial white Europeans others to come to America. We just showed the fuck up. And now Mexicans are coming, you know, quote unquote, illegally into our nation. And some of Americans are just beyond outrage.

Oh my God, my neighbor Jim, this old man who the immigration will affect approximately dick in his life, will affect him in literally no way whatsoever other than letting him buy cheaper produce. And he's outraged. He's very, very, very hard-conserved. He's outraged. But I mean, it is created like, be outraged, I guess. You know, if it really is messed in your life up somehow, if immigration really is affecting somehow,

but know that this country in most countries were founded on illegal immigration of some form. The American Indians, they failed, their land was theirs. This land was theirs, we till get it. I'm glad we did, because now I get to live here. But that doesn't make it any different than a technically illegal entry now. It is funny to me when some people, it's like, man,

people's memories are short when it comes to stuff. All this being said doesn't mean as to Empire is not nuts He really does seem to have a strong racial hatred of my people All racism is idiotic including the this shit that comes towards whites. I swear to God There are easily over a hundred more posts that go back and forth between as to get empire and various other people trying to Rile him like he spent a full day on this on the comment thread of this one video. Just, I can't take it anymore. Here are some of his angry posts.

He says, uh, adversary American, it is so funny how you tried to tell me your history. You fuck you knew nothing. Then all caps, poncho via gave you a say beat down to remember motherfucker. The next one's in all all caps. It says, George Patton, blackjack, Nimitz, MacArthur, all were beaten by Poncho Via. To this day in Mexico,

they have the American flag of when Vias men took it from them, took it from the American fort and Columbus, New Mexico. Now, I took me second to figure out what he's talking about there. With blackjack, they've been sort of like, well, blackjack was general John Pershing's nickname. It was John Jack, they mentioned, well, black Jack was general John Pershings, Nickname, it was John Jack, black Pershing. He, that is the general who went after via. That makes some sense. Nimmings were probably probably refers to Admiral Chesting Nimitz, who was born in Texas, played a major role in, so World War Two, Naval victories. I didn't,

I couldn't find any information about him fight in poncho, but okay, maybe he did, you know, could be out there, could be in some, you know, library, some or general patent best known for his leadership on the shores of Normandy and World War II. He did find his first military experience in Mexico looking for poncho via so thanks to Aztec empire for, for pointing me in that direction. Um, so all right, he made some good points there in his rage. And then his next comment, a little less history, a little more anger, some other person to Sandy a bill one, he says, bitch, go fuck yourself, Puto, I don't give, a little more anger to some other person to Sandy a bill. One, he says, bitch, go fuck yourself, Puto.

I don't give a fuck what you have to say because you are just another Puto, fuck you and your family. Okay. Looks like they're not going to be sharing drinks at the bar any time soon. Uh, finally, Aztec empire, he gets angry about someone insinuating that Ponto Via looked kind of white. He's very anti white. Brian Emanuel is post Ponto Via was pretty white himself and Aztec quickly to quickly correct some saying Brian Emanuel, no, he wasn't. He was brown. And then Maria

Ramirez tries to introduce some history, saying most Mexicans have white in them dumbass. Mexicans mostly are a mix between native and European, ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition. Take a history class sometime. Well, I will say it's less the Inquisition more Spanish colonialism that you're thinking of. I don't think there was a lot of priests spread in their seat. I don't think there was a lot of priests fucking going on. At least not in vaginas. They tended to prefer historically the other side.

Spanish colonial sellers, not the Catholic clergy, were breeding with the locals in Mastos. Asking if I probably doesn't like the so. It doesn't like any incenduation that any part of Mexico could be white. He says, Maria Ramirez, bitch, I have learned true history. Not the bullshit they teach in schools. Yeah, most Mexicans have Spanish, but that does not make them Spanish.

All the Mexicans come from the Mexicas, dumbass. And most of them were brown, just like Pancho Vía. Don't test my history, boy. Mexicans are Mexicas. Ah, Mexicas, excuse me. Not Spain fool. We want our freedom from them evil fucks. Go back to history class.

Learn some real facts of Mexican history. Ah, man, as the Empire, you show glimpses of intelligence moments, but overall, you seem like you're real dumbass. All right, just because somebody won a revolution that doesn't change their genealogy. The race is what the race is.

Doesn't, a victory doesn't affect that. Ah, yeah, many Mexicans are a mishmash of indigenous people and Spanish, you know, uh, blood. That's what happens when you interpret for centuries. That's how I supposedly have some Cherokee and Blackfoot inside of me, right? Europeans and indigenous little mix. That's what happens when a, when a boat of mostly young, horny dude shows up in a new land full of young attractive women, who have been told that God wants their hymns to remain

intact as a Joan of Arc. Right? She thought a fuck fest kicks off between hard, vany, European, cock and sweet American Indian pussy. Don't be mad about it. You probably have some white in you as the campfire. It's where your anger comes from. I get it. Historically, we whites, we white, whiteish meat snacks seem to be real angry people. Keep being angry. It's fun. I like it. But do yourself a favor and learn a little more about the history of your own people. History you are clearly passionate about so you can direct that anger more consistently in the right direction.

Understand your history and stop being a rage field of the internet. I did enjoy reading his rants. I love reading about rage. I love watching rage, man. I am one of those people. I know it's probably not morally crippled, but like when I hear a fight, start to break rage, man. I am one of those people. I know it's probably not morally great, but like when I hear a fight, start to break out,

ooh, I am on it. I'm watching like a hawk. Okay, so now you know a lot more than you did 90 minutes ago about Pancho Villa, real bad ass man. Couple more fun facts about him. He was so often on horseback during the Mexican Revolution that he earned the nickname the Centaur of the North. I love that.

It's at odds with his macho man image, but Pancho the centaur of the north. I love that. It's it's it odds with his macho man image, but punch will be a never drink during the revolution. He allowed his men to drink, but he himself waited until, uh, no, life after his 1928 peace with Alvaro Abrigón, uh, to have a cocktail. He wanted to stay sharp for the fighting. Uh, Vio is not afraid to get his hands dirty. He personally killed many men on battlefield. Uh, there some jobs however that he found to repulsive to do and for those jobs he had a man named rodoleful fiero a sociopathic hitman who fanatically was loyal to him and absolutely fearless according to legend fiero once shot a guy dead just to see if he would fall

forward or backward like he was just curious uh... the loss of fiero on uh... campaign on a military campaign in nineteen fifteen was a huge blow to via. And it was said he was quite fond of a quote attributed to his old friend Emiliano Zapata, who said, it is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees, killing in the name of words to live by. Now I'll take a look back at today's words with today's top five takeaways. Time suck, top five takeaways. Time suck. Top five takeaways.

Number one, Pancho V was born Jose Dorotillo, Arango, Arambila, in 1878, a dirt poor son of a sharecropper. And he died in 1923 as Mexico's most famous revolutionary fighter, a man almost as famous in America as he was United States. And the owner of one of the one of those giant Hossea Indus, he would have been laughed at for thinking he could ever own his child. Number two, Poncho, even attacked the United States at one point. On March 9, 1916, Vian is men attacked the town of Columbus, New Mexico, seeking to steal munitions

and rob banks. The attack was a failure. As the US carousine drove them off, the US organized the punitive expedition led by a general John Jack Black Pershing to track via down. And for months, thousands of us soldiers search northern Mexico for via in vain. Number three, his death remains a mystery. 1923 via was coldly gunned down as he drove to the town of Paral. Although most historians blame El Vero, El Vrigón for the act, there is still a bit of mystery surrounding his murder. Number four, Pancho's favorite comic book was Paco Iwanita, Mui Polka, Tambia, and Dilo Pudi. Number five, new info, do yourself a favor and watch and starring Pancho via as himself. I hadn't heard this movie prior to this research. 2003 HBO movie, they got almost zero press, which is a shame because it's fucking great.

Like for real, got me really pumped for today's suck. If you got HBO go man, check it out. Antonio Benderos plays poncho, he kills it. Seriously, great hidden gem of film. Features one of my favorite actors, Alan Arkin. That guy is a damn treasure. damn treasure. Time suck. Top five takeaway. Pancho via has been sucked. That was a real fun excuse to learn a lot about Mexico in addition to Pancho. Good to know your neighbors, man, especially that one, as we're going to have immigration

suck coming some time later this summer. A big thanks to the time suck team, Harmony Velocamp, poster of the best memes on time, sucks Instagram, other social media outlets. Yes, Harmony, I do promise we, other social media outlets. Yes, harmony. I do promise we'll get going on Discord one of these days. Editor Jesse Dobner finally got him notes a few days ahead of recording. Reverend Dr. Joe Paisley still need to give Joe proper introduction. It's going to happen soon after the man settles in.

Kitsus said a new sweet sound template going for future episodes. Oh, and Harmony by the way has a go fund me campaign. She's having a very complicated pregnancy. If you want to help her out, you can find her. V are social media. You can contact TimesLinks social media. You can just, you can Google Harmony Vella Camp GoFundMe and get it right there. I will do my best to put a reminder in the episode description. Thanks to Alex Dugan, the Biddleer team danger brain, Eric Radiker, Queen of the Suck, Lindsay Cummins, huge thanks to Bojangles Research All-Star Heather Rylander. She gave me great info to get going on today's Suck We Love Heather.

Want to meet some fellow time suckers? Well, head to the private Facebook group while we still work on the message board that we'll get here one of these days on the website in the app. Time Sucker private Facebook link provided in the episode description. Bonus episode, holy fuck are we going dark this Friday? Jesus Christ, we look into the horrific, sadistic life and crimes of the toy box killer, David Parker Ray. You know, sometimes I will say, I don't know, it's probably sounds horrible, that some

serial killer story are kind of like repetitive and boring, like there's so much darkness we get exposed to in the media. It's like, okay, all right, another person who killed somebody, great, another piece of shit. I was darkly captivated. I wanted to like somehow conjure this guy back to life just so I could kill him with my bare hands.

I hated him so much once I got into the research. It is the most fucked up research, the most disturbing things I think I've ever read my life. It is the darkest episode of time. So I get it's gonna haunt me. Uh, this piece of shit kidnapped and tortured women in this $100,000 fuck dungeon slash steel trailer. He built, I've seen pictures of that looks like something out of one of the saw movies. Women would be held for days on end in this box.

It would be electrocuted cut, torn, savagely raped by multiple people, raped by animals. It is the craziest shit I've ever read. It all happened in the small New Mexico town of elephant, but in the 90s. It's a very adult episode. One that's gonna make you wonder what the hell may be going on in your own neighborhood. Freak me out. And honestly, again, just captivated me

with just such over the top insane darkness. It is, it's like an advertisement for maybe you shouldn't get that into SNM. Man, it reads, the tale of the Toybox Killer reads like a story of an impossibly evil Stephen King monster But he was real and some of his accomplices were real are real are still alive today One of them walking free and two others about to get out of jail Very disturbing We're gonna yeah deep dive that on Friday and now let's dive into today's time sucker updates. Updates, get your time sucker updates.

Starting off with an Aztec sucked update from longtime sucker, Josh DeCruz. He says, Hey, Dan, great sucker in the Aztec. Ancient history is my bread and butter. And he knocked out of the park. Thank you. I know you're not talking about pronunciations, but I'm glad I got some of the details right. Just a fun fact for you. There's a new group of academics who firmly believed that the Olmech civilization was started by Africans who

sailed from Africa to the new world. What evidence do they have for this? He says, the fucking Olmech headcarvings look kind of African. It's stupid as shit, but a professor of mine actually believes it's shit. And the other professors laughed at him. When you do a Mayan suck, let me know so I can send them and stuff your way. Thank you, Josh. A Mayan sucked on the road will be great, man. Yes. After touching on them in the Aztecs, I do want to learn more about the Mayans. And so many good idiot of the internet comments. I'm sure going to be in the Mayan suck, you know, all that stuff about their doomsday calendar. Got to remember people getting worked up about that. Some quick ear sack math. Yeah. Now time for some ear sack math regarding the battle between the

Mongols and Knights Templar figured out by time sucker and space lizard Tony, uh, your donno. Now I shared Tony's voice message in the secret suck. I wanted to pass it along in today's time suck as well. He says, dear master, Dan the man commons the fourth profit of Nimrod, Bojangles long lost fifth testicle space, Lister Tony, AKA Fang, AKA David Ike's second to back left lizard molar here. I sent an advice message about this, but I feel like I was a juggling mess with nerves. So I saw it and sent it in here. No, you did great, man.

I love playing it. The other night, I was listening to your night's Templar Suck on the way back to the pub, and you went out on a tangent about ears and potato sacks that got me thinking, how many ears can fit in a potato sack? Yes, because I was talking about the Mongols putting, you know, they cut off ears, put them in sacks to show how many people that killed in battle. So as he says, do not trust some shitty

half-drunken math at the bar and sitting on it for a couple days, I figured it out. I posted the work on the Space Litterage Facebook page. But I estimated that you can fit 8600 average size ears into your average size potato sack. So you're more than a thousand was totally correct. Yeah, man, it's way more than a thousand. Just thought you'd find that interesting. I do.

Thanks for all you do. Keep me, for thanks, keep me sane while I sneak your podcast to work. Keep on sucking. You beautiful bearded bastard piece. Thank you, Tony. I love that you get obsessed with weird shit just like on sucking. You beautiful bearded bastard piece. Thank you, Tony. I love that you get obsessed with weird shit just like I do. You beautiful bastard.

That is a shit ton of ears. And now a bunch of info coming your way about the Donner party. Thanks to time soccer and Donner party trivia champion, Kayla Miller. Kayla says, Hey, master's sucker, I'm a total Donner party nerd. So I was super excited with this new episode. I've been obsessed with the history of this

since I was little and have done a bunch of research on the party. I pictured this little kid like just reading about these cannibals. And I dragged my husband to the museum and trucky more times than I'm pleased to admit. Okay, wow, so Kayla is serious. So I thought I'd share a few fun facts you may or may not

have encountered in your research. You talked about camping sucking, but for the reads it sucked a little bit less for a while. Reed had constructed a palace car that was ginormous. Two stories required way more oxygen to pull and even had a stove in it. That's amazing. They eventually had to totally abandon it

in an assault like desert, but it probably helped the trip for quite a while for his group. Yeah, wow. I bet that palace car did help the reeds. Man, they have fucking stove in that. They were the one big family. You know, as I said in the group to escape with no loss of life, that horrible winner. Sarah Keys reads mother-in-law with a tough lady and her younger days should actually travel Daniel Boone's wilderness trail. That's

awesome. So she wasn't just some old tag along who died right away in the trip. Not it's incredible. She was a pioneer and she wasn't on her first rodeo. While on their journey through the desert, the reeds had their dogs sleep over them on the ground. Family accounts say that they, they think the only thing that kept them from freezing dust some nights was the heat from the dogs. Now that's a good dog. That's some good dogs, man.

I don't, I don't think my dogs would do that. I think Penny Pooper and Gigi, I think Ginger Bell would, they would sleep under me on a cold night just hoping that I kept them alive Tamsen allegedly had sewn a large amount of gold into a quilt that ended that they ended up burying when they got to the Salt Lake desert As far as I've heard no one has ever recovered anything to prove this, but it was interesting nonetheless Happy fucking cool to find can you imagine you're out there doing whatever the hell people do in the Salt Lake deserts? I don't know doing bugging or some shit You're out there doing whatever the hell people do in the Salt Lake Desert. I don't know, doing bugging or some shit.

Racing on the salt, salt flats and then you, you find a gold quilt. Oh, that'd be it. That'd be amazing. Get, get to the desert with your gold detectors report back. Uh, when they abandoned their belongings, Patty reek kept a tiny little hidden dollar pocket, which made it all the way through the winter and onto California, currently on display.

It's that is fort. When Reav was banished, they sent him off with very little by the way of supplies. His family members allegedly stuck off that night, brought him supplies. The no doubt actually helped him make it to California and then helped save the group. Yes, you're 100% correct. I did read that it was one of the details I just didn't include to keep the narrative moving. His daughter supposedly snuck off. It was the one who did it and gave him a rifle and additionally yet to food and other supplies

that did allow him to survive on a zone and make it all the way to Sutter's fort. Before coming back and leading rescue parties, Reed actually fought the Mexican American war. Didn't know that man. They were quite the family. Well, many of the families did resort to cannibalism. There were a number of families that were not forced to do to those measures, including the reads.

Is your, is your last name actually Reed Kayla? This feels like a big PR campaign for the Reed family. And Trucke, you can currently view the stone where the Murphy's had their cabin, the statue showing how high the snow was, it's unreal, and memorials for the Reed and Donner camps. At the Donner campsite, the park is called Donner camp and picnic grounds, which mean my family always chuckle at.

Yes, that's pretty ballsy. They include picnic grounds in a description of the Donner party memorial. You know a lot of dark laughs were had when that sign was put up. Hastings of the cutoff fame was a pretty interesting character. They cut off. He promoted in his book, immigrant, immigrant guy to the Oregon in California. It is an interesting read if you have the chance.

Had only been on, he'd only been on the cutoff on a horse and it never traveled it with the wagon before he printed that after the Donner party story was popularized. He went to fight for the Confederates and then bailed to Brazil and published the immigrants guide to Brazil and then died leading sellers in St. Thomas crazy guy. Yeah, you think after the Donner party mishap, he might slow his roll a little bit when he came to writing guidebooks. Maybe, maybe not write another trail book, but maybe I don't know, maybe he wanted to redeem himself.

One parting quote I love from Virginia Reed is, remember, never take no cutoffs and hurry along as fast as you can. All right, get advice. Always seems like a great summation of the story. Hope you thought this was interesting. Thanks for covering the story. Always love reliving the research. Thanks, Kayla.

I did find all of that interesting. Kayla, thank you for such an informative update. We have a military time sucker heading out to serve his country, like to say, hi, the man, the myth, the legend, Alan Howell writes in saying, Hey, suck master tomorrow, I leave for the army and won't be able to hear Monday's suck and that sucks pretty hard. Being part of the cult of the curious has been awesome. I will continue to suck when I get back or go on my first tour of duty, whichever comes first, keep those sucks coming truly curious, private.

How will thank you for your service, private, how honored to have you in the cold to the curious. Guess you may have to hear this when you when you get back, man, we'll miss you. Stay safe. We'll be here waiting for you when you get back and I had numerous suckers running to say I got them with that McGill's pop bullshit. You know, that story I made up about how if you get cholera, you can shit so hard, you can actually literally shit your butt hole off. And I got Jeff Beck who wrote, dear master sucker ultimate supreme, you get cholera, you can shit so hard, you can actually literally shit your butt hole off. And I got Jeff Beck, who wrote,

dear master sucker ultimate supreme, you sweet mother sucker, you got me. I immediately started googling McGill's pop. And as I started to scroll, you pulled me back into reality. I prided myself on making it all the way through every episode without being fooled, but goddamn it, this one was too good

to not wish it was true. I wanted so badly, it it for it to be true. Luciferina really got in my head for this one. How fucking funny would that be? Oh, Johnny, last but all. You beautiful son of a bitch. Keep up the good work. Hail, Memrot.

Praise to both jangles. Be gone, Luciferina. Glory to Michael M. other fucking McDonald. So, surely your loyal suck, Prentice Jeff. Well, Jeff, thank you for sharing that. That makes me laugh so hard. I know. And that's kind of what were my mind with the two. It's so ridiculous. Obviously it's, thank you for sharing that. That makes me laugh so hard. I know. And

that's kind of what were my mind with the two. It's so ridiculous. Obviously it's terrible if it happens to you with a thought of someone having such explosive diary that they somehow, which is physically impossible. Shut off their own but hole. It's just cartoonistically ridiculous. Uh, finally, a belated anniversary shout out to Alex heard, uh, his lady, Alex wrote in saying, Hey, Dan, I want to know if you could do me a solid. Can you give me a shout out to my beautiful wife, Alyssa, in this next upcoming suck on July 2nd. Sorry, I missed the second out, but I got you this week.

I still got you this week late. Our first wedding anniversary is the life first. She deserves a small surprise. Even she hates him. I'm completely blown away by how fast his first year flew by. We both have been very busy with their jobs to the point we've just been surviving together surviving well, but still surviving. Whether we have been thriving surviving or something in the middle, there is a single

person I can imagine sharing my life with other than her. She's the best thing that has ever happened to me and she has shown me what true love really is. So thank you, Alyssa, for everything that you are. Now I would have sent in a voice message, but I probably start crying. I can barely hold myself together when things get emotional.

If you don't get this message in time from Anniversary, that's cool, just know we love everything you and your team do and represent your faithful listeners. Loyal Space Lizards, Alex and Alyssa, thank you Space Lizards. PS, get your ass back to Oxnard so we can hate a little bit on some idiot flat-arthers together. I think I am heading back there.

I think I'm heading back there in the fall pretty sure I am Gotta look it up on the tour dates congrats you to and what sounds like a beautiful little love story Yeah, that's awesome. Happy to have you to and the cult to the curious have a great summer and thank you everyone for the updates Thanks time suckers. I need a net. We all did That's all for today, everybody. Have a great week. I'll be talking to you again on Friday, for those of you with the stomach strong enough

to handle the toy box killer. I'm telling you, it's not gonna be for everybody. Good luck growing a poncho via mustache. It would make Jeff Foxworthy jealous. You keep on sucking. Thank you.