Timesuck with Dan Cummins - Short Suck #10 - Andrea Yates

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

On June 20th, 2001, former high school valedictorian, captain of the swim team, and registered nurse, Andrea Yates, coldly drowned all five of her children in a bathtub. Is she a monster.... or also a tragic victim? We explore the intersection of murder and mental illness on this heavy bonus episode. WATCH THIS EPISODE: https://youtu.be/pb7wmFLBstYFor Merch and everything else Bad Magic related, head to: https://www.badmagicproductions.com

Welcome to this edition of Time Suck Short Sucks. I'm Dan Cummins and today, as is the case with all these short sucks, no announcements, no segments, no complex show mythology or inside jokes that require you to hear many other episodes to understand this one. Just a story. And today's story is the shocking tale of Andrea Yates. She once called herself the most hated woman in the world. And I'd say she was probably right.

On June 20, 2001, Andrea Yates killed all five of her children. She waited until her husband was gone and then systematically drowned them, one after another in the bathtub. Afterwards, she called the police and told the responding officer, I killed my kids. She's also probably the one murderer out of all the ones we have covered now that I have the most sympathy for. Words and ideas can change the world. I hated her but I wanted to love my mother. I have a dream. I plead not guilty right now. Your only chance is to leave with us. Andrea Yates.

News of her murdering all of her children, unsurprisingly, quickly spread throughout the entire country. In the summer leading up to 9-11, it was definitely one of America's biggest true crime stories, if not the biggest. People were disgusted by Andrea's actions, but she also had many people who strongly sympathized

with her and considered her much more of a victim than a monster, including her own husband. Andrea's attorneys immediately presented an insanity defense, and it was not a bullshit one. Andrea was clearly very, very mentally ill, and still is today. She'd been suffering from serious mental illness since the birth of her first child in 1994, and then it increased in severity in 1999. She'd seen multiple psychiatrists and taken rounds of medication,

and at times had shown great improvement. So what went wrong on June 20th, 2001? Andrea had been off her medication for about a year, leading up to the deaths of her children because she and her husband believed they should have as many children as nature allowed, that they felt it was their duty, that it was God's will. Much like in the case of the Amish killer, Edward Gingrich, who I covered in Time Suck

episode 290, Andree is a sad and incredibly tragic example of what can happen when religious ideals and blatant medical needs collide and preference is given to the ideals. Her doctor warned her and her husband to stop having kids, one of her doctors, that her very severe postpartum depression would only continue to get worse if they had more kids. But her husband didn't listen. He felt God would make it all okay. He felt it was their duty if they wanted to be righteous believers to continue to procreate. And in choosing that path hot damn he

ignored a lot of very dangerous red flags. Before sharing the details of Andrea's story let's first learn a bit about postpartum depression and all too common mental illness that does not get the attention it should. Many new mothers feel sad depressed and resentful and then also ashamed of feeling sad depressed and resentful when they then also ashamed of feeling sad, depressed, and resentful when they experience postpartum depression symptoms after giving birth, which prevents them from seeking treatment. Postpartum depression affects one in eight people who give birth, according to the CDC, or roughly 10 to 15 percent of people who give birth, per The Lancet, a British medical

journal. It is actually one of several mood disorders that can occur after childbirth and you can suffer from more than one of them. Postpartum anxiety affects roughly 10% of people who give birth. Postpartum psychosis is the most extreme and rare postpartum mood disorder and it occurs in one out of one to two, excuse me, out of every 1,000 deliveries or 0.1% to 0.2% of all births. According to the Postpartum Support International, not the, according to Postpartum Support International, a nonprofit that supports pregnant women

and their families around the world. Lucy Prier, who spoke to Andrea after her arrest, told The Lancet that she sees patients with postpartum disorders often and that they typically show a great deal of improvement once they are diagnosed and treated. One expert described postpartum psychosis as predictable, identifiable, treatable, and preventable.

And that treatable and preventable part is what makes Andrea's story so fucking sad. Patients with postpartum psychosis experience hallucinations and delusions that alter their sense of reality after giving birth. And sometimes it can cause them to harm themselves or in more rare instances harm their children. They are quite literally not in their right mind and truly do not understand what they're doing. They might as well be trying to parent while in the midst of a heavy acid trip where they're peaking for weeks or months continuously instead of just for a few hours. While treatable, this condition requires emergency psychiatric care.

The onset is sudden and symptoms usually appear in the first few days or weeks after childbirth, but they can also show up later. Besides hallucinations and delusions, other symptoms can include insomnia, irritability, paranoia, restlessness, and intense mood swings. According to Michelle Davidson, an expert and board member of Postpartum Support International, 5% of individuals with postpartum psychosis will attempt suicide and 4% will attempt or commit infanticide. Davidson said in an interview with NBC that mothers often falsely believe they are harming their children in order to protect them, to keep them safe from a worse fate. That was true with Andrea.

Davidson said, In nearly all the cases that was true with Andrea. Davidson said, In nearly all the cases that are true postpartum psychosis, there really is not malicious intent. It's basically these women trying to save their babies or take their babies with them to heaven. Dr. Philip Resnick, a professor of psychiatry at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. Go, Cavs! Go Indians!

Oh, wait, Guardians! Sorry. I forget. Go... ah, shit, there's another team there. Browns, dear God, and an expert witness at Andrew Yates' trial, explained that one of the main reasons mothers exhibit various post-partum mental illness symptoms and don't seek help is because new parents are expected to love their babies, right? Immediately. This is a great gift. They should be filled with joy. And if they don't have that emotion or emotions, if they're not filled with happiness and joy, they're reluctant to tell their partners or

doctors because they're ashamed. Also, most mothers suffering postpartum symptoms often have a history of mental illness prior to the postpartum. A 2006 study published in the Journal of Women's Health suggests that 72 to 88% of patients who develop postpartum psychosis immediately after childbirth already have bipolar or schizoaffective disorder. Schizoaffective disorder is a very serious condition that occurs when a person experiences both schizophrenia and a mood disorder at the same time. Imagine dealing with paranoia, hallucinations, severe feelings of depression or anxiety, and now you have the stress of a newborn

to take care of. That is not a recipe for maternal success or happiness. According to Postpartum Support International, it is also important to know that many survivors of postpartum psychosis never experience delusions containing violent commands. Delusions take many forms and not all of them are destructive. The majority of individuals who experience postpartum psychosis do not harm themselves or anyone else. However, there is always the risk of danger because psychosis includes delusional thinking and irrational judgment. And this is why the illness must quickly be assessed, treated, and carefully monitored

by a trained healthcare or prenatal mental health professional. Just last year in early 2023, another case brought national attention to postpartum mental health professional. Paranatal, not prenatal. Just last year in early 2023, another case brought national attention to postpartum mental health issues. On January 24th, 2023, a woman named Lindsay Clancy killed her three young children at their home in Duxbury, Massachusetts. Lindsay's kids were five-year-old Cora Clancy, three-year-old Dawson Clancy, and eight-month-old Callan. Clancy was not officially diagnosed with postpartum depression, but doctors had prescribed her medications for generalized anxiety disorder. On January 1st, she checked herself into a psychiatric hospital in Belmont, Massachusetts. She was discharged on January 5th after the hospital found that she was not a danger to

herself or others. But she was. Lindsay's husband told her doctor she was quote acting like a zombie leading up to her children's deaths. Prosecutors argued that Lindsay was lucid on the day of the murders and made a plan to send her husband on errands. Her husband Patrick left home to go to CBS pick up some and also pick up some takeout from a local restaurant. When he returned he found his three kids unconscious with signs of trauma. Lindsay had strangled them with exercise bands. Cora and Dawson were declared dead at the scene. Callan would die in the hospital days later. Lindsay jumped

out of a second story window in an attempt to end her life but would survive. However, she was paralyzed, is paralyzed from the waist down since the fall. Investigators found that Lindsay used her phone and her journal to document her mental state, her feelings about her kids, and to keep track for medications. She researched things like ways to kill and can you treat a psychopath shortly before she killed her children? Her defense team argued that Lindsay was overmedicated and that her mental health was in decline leading up to the deaths Lindsay has yet to go on trial. She remains hospitalized due to imminent risk of her continuing to harm herself. In addition to jumping out that window, she also has slit her wrists.

Now that we know a bit how fucking serious postpartum disorders can be, let's take a look at the case of Andrea Yates. Andrea Pia Kennedy, later Yates, born on July 2, 1964 in Houston, Texas. Her parents are Andrea, excuse me, Andrew and Yuta Kennedy. Andrea is the youngest of five children. Growing up, she was a great kid. Didn't get into trouble, did very, very well at school. She was the captain of the swim team, a national honor society officer, and the valedictorian of her 1982 class at Millby High School in Houston.

It was crazy. Out of a graduating class of around 2,000 students, no one got better grades than Andrea Yates. Following high school, Andrea completed two years of pre-nursing at the University of Houston and in 1986 graduated from the University of Texas School of Nursing in Houston as an RN. Andrea then worked as a registered nurse at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center from 1986 all the way to 1994.

Was a great nurse. Former coworkers described her as studious and shy at this point in her life. Didn't have a lot of friends, not much of a social life. Didn't seriously begin to date until she was 23. Then when she was 24 she experienced a pretty severe bout of depression after a breakup. Andrea long before she would experience more serious bouts of mental illness was someone I would describe as you know fragile, a very sensitive person. Also had a family history of mental illness. Her father, one of her siblings,

have suffered from serious depression and other family members have struggled with substance abuse. Andrew's brother, Brian Kennedy, spoke to Suzanne O'Malley for O Magazine and said, when they talk about the brother with mental illness, that's me. I'm bipolar. The first to get arrested, the first to do drugs, you know, the troublemaker. Brian also mentioned that their mother, Yuta, lived in Germany during World War II and witnessing the horrors of Nazi Germany traumatized her, affected her profoundly.

Andrea recovered from her first big battle of depression following that first big breakup and was then able to resume living her normal life. The following year, 1995, 25-year-old Andrea met 25-year-old Russell Rusty Yates at her Houston apartment complex Rusty was raised near Nashville, Tennessee. He was a also a great student Played football was a member of the Fellowship of Christian athletes at DuPont senior high school

His classmates actually voted him. Mr. DuPont Meaning that he was the ideal representative of their school He then went on to study at Auburn where he would graduate summa cum laude with a bachelor's degree in applied science and following that would work for fucking NASA on their space shuttle program. Based on their high school and college resumes, I mean these two should have been a power couple, two very intelligent people. Andrew was the one who initiated the first conversation with Rusty. One of their favorite hobbies as a couple was religious studies, which would play a role in Andrew's criminal case. The two moved in together shortly before they were married, April 17, 1993.

At their wedding, they told their guests they were going to have as many children as nature provided. It wouldn't take them long to have their first kid. Noah Yates was born just 10 months after their wedding, February 26, 1994. And immediately following his birth, some serious red flags appeared that indicated that Andrea was very mentally ill. As in she probably should not have had more children and would need her parenting with Noah to be supervised.

Soon after Noah was born, Andrea told doctors that she heard Satan himself tell her to get a knife and stab someone. One of the first documented incidents of Andrea experiencing a hallucination. And what a hallucination that was, right? It's a big one. Fucking devil's talking to her now. And it doesn't seem as if she was put on any medication at this time. After Noah was born, Andrea quit her job to become a stay-at-home mother. And then she and Rusty got right back to trying to get pregnant.

They chose not to use birth control because, again, they wanted to have as many kids as they could, as many kids as nature and God willed. Their second child John Yates was born 22 months later, December 12th 1995. During Andrea's second pregnancy more signs of mental illness surfaced. She stopped exercising, became increasingly reclusive, seemed depressed according to her friends. Then in 1996 the family relocated toinole, Florida for six months for Rusty's job. This further separated Andrea from anyone other than her husband and her kids. The family lived in a little travel trailer during that time. It seemed like they enjoyed their new lifestyle, at least for a little while. According to Rusty, they

forgot why they needed half of the things they had in storage and they started to live more simply. Andrea became pregnant again during their time in Florida but miscarried. The following year in 1997 the family returned to Houston moving to another trailer instead of a home because they wanted to live light, keep that simple lifestyle going according to Rusty. And then Andrea became pregnant a fourth time and on September 13th 1997 their third child Paul Yates was born. Early the next year in 1998 Rusty purchased a 350 square foot renovated bus from a 44 year old traveling preacher named Michael Peter Warniecki. Man three kids and they're living in a 350 square foot fucking bus. That

doesn't sound good. Andrea spends almost all day every day in this bus or just outside of this bus with the kids. She's still reclusive, still not seeing friends or outside family very much. Sounds stressful. Sounds stressful and not very healthy. Rusty met Michael Wara Niecki, the man he bought the bus from when he was back at Auburn. And Michael was becoming more and more of a religious leader to the Yates family now. Waro Niecki, oh Polish names, and his family had been traveling around to various college campuses around the country in their motorhome preaching a pretty hardcore fundamentalist version of Christianity. Their teachings were unique because they didn't promote joining a church and they still promote this is from what I can tell. Instead

they recommended establishing a relationship with Jesus at home through the New Testament. Michael Warioneky's wife Rachel was quoted by the Indiana Daily Student during one of the family's many campus protests as saying, Seek Jesus not in the church or religion and not in Christianity and not in the system. The system cannot save you because it is based in Satan. Oh boy. Whenever someone makes broad sweeping declarations of good and evil like that about groups composed of people from all different walks of life such as all college professors are evil, or all scientists are evil, or all the Democrats are evil, or all the Republicans are evil, fucking run. You are not dealing with a rational person who is going to improve your life. You are

dealing with a zealot Thinking that all churches are based in Satan is as stupid and crazy as thinking that all Lakers fans are evil or all Amazon delivery drivers eat babies or just whatever other crazy assertion Yeah, I Rachel were on war Oh, Nyeke Homeschooled their six children so that the family could travel and protest together Nyeke homeschooled their six children so that the family could travel and protest together. The War Nyeke's also preached that married couples should have as many children as possible. And these are the kind of people that you see with like bull horns and giant signs saying shit like, repent now before it's

too late! In places like, you know, Times Square. Very, very strong Westboro Baptist Church vibes. Googling Michael Woyonecki, one of the first images of him that comes up is of him at Times Square acting crazy like this. This is a doomsday guy who printed a newsletter called The Perilous Times. What a fun read! And one of the issues that came out right before Andrea killed her kids, there was a poem mourning the modern world's disobedient kids called modern mother worldly this guy's a big guy in the sense that women should not work they should stay home with their

kids women out in the workforce you know evil basically women engaged with society at large evil making their kids evil this guy frequently preached that parents were responsible for their kids salvation and that feminism other modern evils were setting kids' souls to hell. He preached, and again still preaches today, about how women need to be subservient to their husbands and about how evil is, you know, just continuously lurking all around. Satan's everywhere. 1994, just an example of the kind of shit he says on campuses.

He showed up at Brigham Young University to harass students with his wife and kids. And he and the fam handed out his stupid fucking newsletter He carried around a large wooden cross shouted dumb shit like you guys don't know Jesus Christ. You are Mormon scumbags had his kids carry around signs that said stuff like your mouths talk of Christ your life espouses you as of the world and No, you are not saved. Just another typical American hypocrite World war Oh, I fucking hate his name. Mr. W. Called the female student body Contemporary Witches and told them sarcastically go and be a 20th century woman and forget about your families. He's done shit like this at campuses all around the US for decades. He's a maniac.

You can find all kinds of info about him online if you can figure out how to spell his name. And this guy was the Yates, you know, the Yates family spiritual teacher and his teaching did not mesh well with Andrea Yates growing mental instability. Andrea started pleading with her mom and siblings to renounce Catholicism because of Michael's teachings. She sent them copies of his newsletter, you know, copies that warned that all Catholics are going to hell. The former valedictorian's mind is clearly no longer as sharp now as it once was. Her brain is warping in the sad little paranoid echo chamber she's found herself in. According to a biography.com article on Andrea, through sermons, videos, and personal telephone calls,

the Waro Nyekes condemned the Yeates for their hypocritical Christian lifestyle, saying their children were doomed to hell because of their parents' sins. You know, if they didn't change their ways and act more godly. And these are the kind of people that no matter what you do, you know, you're always on the edge of, you know, burning in hell. They're just going to keep hounding you to be more righteous, you know, according to their very narrow, weird view of righteousness. Waroneki preached that parents were responsible for ensuring their children's

salvation. That parents should end their lives rather than cause their children to quote stumble which would cause them to go to hell. All this shit clearly gets into Andrea's head. In accordance with the Wario Neki's teachings, why am I able to say that word so they know, the Yates family were not members of a church and they were non-denominational. And then Rusty would lead a family bible study a few times a week, you know, to pound more of this kind of nonsense into Andrea's head. Andrea's legal team will state at her trial that Michael Warioneky bore responsibility for the Yeats children's deaths, some of it, because of his sermons and his newsletter, which were presented at

Andrea's trial. Back to her timeline now, February 15, 1999, Andrea gave birth to their fourth child, Luke Yates, and Andrea's mental health worsens. She experiences a severe mental health crisis a few months after giving birth to Luke. June 16, 1999, Andrea calls Rusty at work and asks him to come home immediately. He finds her shaking and crying when he does. She has trouble speaking, is barely able to say, I need help. The following day, June 17th, Rusty takes Andrea and the kids to Andrea's parents' house instead of seeking out a mental health professional, which is what you

should do. He'll later say long after her trial that he believed and still believes to this day that Andrea's troubles were directly caused by the devil tormenting her. That same afternoon, Rusty drops his family off with Andrea's folks. While her dad is taking a nap, Andrea takes 40 of his trazodone tablets. This is a sedative medication prescribed to her father after he had a stroke. Her mother finds her, rushes her to the hospital where she will spend the night for the suicide attempt. The next day on June 18th, Andrea is transferred to the psychiatric unit of Houston's Methodist

Hospital where Dr. James Flack diagnoses her with major depressive disorder, single episode, severe. Unfortunately, Andrea will not discuss her feelings of hopelessness with any of the doctors here or her suicidal ideation. Dr. Flack will note she was only able to ask if she had done any permanent damage to her body, you know know with the pills. That same day a social worker named Norma Tariak interviewed Andrea and described her as unwilling or unable to identify recent stressors. Tariak noted that Rusty was aware and accepting of his wife's problems and felt more comfortable calling it postpartum depression than anything else.

Rusty also expressed concern that Andrea was struggling with the concept of salvation. You know that was the reason she's uh you know not doing well. This is a NASA employee. This really academically smart guy refuses to look at any of this through the lens of mental illness instead he just you know is looking at it as a as a spiritual battle and this won't work out well. Andrea was discharged from the hospital on June 24, 1999. Dr. Flack interviewed Andrea earlier that day, spoke to Rusty. They requested that she be discharged.

They agreed to have someone watch her around the clock and said that they were both aware that Andrea was at risk of hurting herself again. Dr. Flack will later indicate that Andrea was being discharged because of insurance restrictions and that he would have preferred to have kept her longer. He noted that she was a you know still suffering from delusional guilt and he prescribed her 150 milligrams a day of Zoloft, a routine dosage of the antidepressant. He also referred her to outpatient therapy with Dr. Eileen Starbranch. That's pretty cool last name Starbranch. Who will prescribe her Zyprexa, an antipsychotic medication used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

Andrea will not take her medication, though, after she returns home on June 24th. I mean, why take your medication when you can just pray your problems away, which is what she's being told. She begins to self-harm, soon refuses to feed her kids because she thinks that they're eating too much, also starts to think that there are cameras in the ceiling. People are watching her and that the characters on the TV shows she watches are talking directly to her and talking directly to her children. She tells Rusty about all this and he does not share this information with her psychiatrist. But then on July 20th Andrea puts a knife against her neck and begs Rusty to let her kill herself. He

has to wrestle the knife out of her hands to stop her from slitting her own throat. Now he accepts. But you know, maybe she needs some treatment. Next day, July 21, 1999, Andrea is admitted for psychiatric treatment at Spring Shadows Glen, a private psychiatric hospital. There she's prescribed the anti-psychotic Haldol. Staff learned she was taking her Zoloft inconsistently and then she flushed her Zyprexa down the toilet. Andrew was quoted by a psychologist James Thompson

during this day in the hospital saying, I had a fear I would hurt somebody. I thought it better to end my own life and prevent it from happening. So she's clearly already at this point worried about hurting people. She said about her hallucinations, there was a voice, then an image of the knife. I had a vision in my mind, get a knife, get a knife. My God. Those poor kids were in danger for so long. She acknowledged that she had obsessive thoughts about her children and how they would turn

out. She was nervous about training her kids right and failing at being a parent. Andrew was then referred to the psychiatric unit of the Methodist Hospital where she had went for treatment back in June. Dr. Arturo Rios, another psychiatrist there, recommended electroshock therapy now, but Andrea and Rusty were not receptive to this idea. Instead, Andrea agreed to take the antipsychotic Haldol, as I mentioned, also Kogenton, and the antidepressants Affexer and Wilbutrin. Slowly but surely, during her inpatient stay, she got better.

Rusty visited Andrea often. The nurses described him as supportive and caring. Andrea was then discharged August 9, 1999, after an almost three-week stay, and she started daily outpatient care August 19. This program allowed her to sleep at home and then come to the hospital daily for treatment. During Andrea's first post-hospital visit Dr. Ellen Starbranch again told her she needed to continue taking her meds even if she started to feel better. But Andrea complained that the drugs made her feel weak and she also worried that her drug cocktail made her lose control of herself. She was already talking about wanting to stop her medication just days after she leaves the hospital.

And she said she wanted to have more children in home school then. Dr. Starbranch wrote, apparently patient and husband plan to have as many babies as nature will allow. Exclamation point. This will surely guarantee future psychotic depression. They were warned. Star Branch also verbally warned Andrea and Rusty that having another kid would almost certainly trigger another you know dangerous psychotic episode. Still they refused to start using birth control. Instead they hope a change of scenery somehow help Andrea out and Rusty now buys the family a nice three-bedroom home in Clear Lake, Texas.

Rusty will later say, I bought the house when Andrea was sick the first time. She never complained about the bus. I just thought the house might be better for her. I didn't even know if she liked the house until one day she told me, I'm glad you bought it. Doesn't sound like they're talking a lot. Andrea seemed to be doing relatively well in this new environment. At first she also got back into swimming. She was on the swim team in high school. At captain, she got into cooking socializing again crazy What the right fucking meds can do for your brain? But then in May of 2000 at the urging of her husband rusty

Andrea stops taking her meds because they want to get pregnant again. Yeah And before I share what happens next during Andrea Yates tragic downward spiral Time for today's mid show sponsor break If you don't want to hear these ads you can sign up on our patreon become a space loser for five bucks a month and get Andrea Yates' tragic downward spiral. Time for today's mid-show sponsor break. If you don't wanna hear these ads, you can sign up on our Patreon, become a Spacelesser for five bucks a month, and get the entire catalog ad free and more.

And I'm back. Now let's see what happens now that Andrea and Rusty have decided that she needs to stop taking her desperately needed medication. Andrea gets pregnant quickly, and on top of being pregnant and also not taking her meds, Andrea is now homeschooling Noah and taking care of three toddlers. Not stressful at all. Rusty is helping out a lot though. He will babysit his own kids one night a week. So that's cool.

Andrea also stopped seeing her psychiatrist, Dr. Starbranch. The age is fifth and final child. Their first girl, Mary, is born November 30th, 2000. Andrea has now been offered medication for a full year. Then a few months after Mary is born, Andrea's mental health deteriorates significantly again when her father Andrew dies March 12th, 2001. Andrew was deeply affected by this loss. Her dad's death combined with very mentally ill person not taking her meds, you know, triggers another psychotic episode. And Andrea is now afraid to ever put baby Mary down. She thinks something bad will happen to her if she's not holding her. She also stops talking regularly, right? She's not socialized anymore. She's not

swimming. She's not eating regularly, not drinking very well. She's not nursing Mary here soon. She starts pulling out her hair in clumps. She starts to think that the cameras are watching her again. And once again, TV characters are talking to her. She starts to think that the cameras are watching her again. And once again, TV characters are talking to her. As she falls deeper and deeper into this psychosis. Finally, March 31st, Andrea is admitted to Devereux Texas Treatment Network. And she starts to take anti-psychotic medication again.

She was in such bad shape that Rusty reportedly told the physician during intake that Andrea could not survive another night at home. Attending psychiatrists Mohammed A. Saeed and Patricia Corks appealed to the probate court of Galveston County following this intake to have Andrea committed long term to the Austin State Hospital. Both doctors agreed that Andrea was a serious danger to herself and unable to make a rational treatment choice.

Also interesting to note, that when they did her intake, they did not check the box for is likely to cause serious harm to others. While many were worried about Andrea hurting herself, none of her family members or medical professionals at this time thought she was a threat to her kids. And then Andrea gets discharged earlier than she should have been. She should not have been discharged, thought she was a threat to her kids. And then Andrea gets discharged earlier than she should have been. She should not have been discharged,

but she was. Rusty had convinced Andrea to voluntarily sign herself into Devereux, which is unfortunate because if Andrea had been involuntarily admitted to the state hospital, the length of her stay would not have been limited by health insurance. So Andrea is discharged to her family after 12 days. And when she is discharged, she is barely talking.

Then two weeks later, Andrea is readmitted on May 4th now because after filling the bathtub with water the day before, because she had filled the bathtub with water the day before during a bout of suicidal ideation. She said she filled the tub with water, quote, just in case, then told her mother-in-law she needed it. When she came in this time, Dr. Saeed wrote, the patient was near catatonic, sat in the chair and did not move at all. At this time, we decided to try Haldol again at the husband's request.

So she begins taking Haldol and is discharged again May 14th now. A few weeks later, June 4th, 2001, Dr. Saeed tells Rusty to have Andrea taper off Haldal over the following three days. Then Rusty and Andrea go for a follow-up with Dr. Saeed on June 18th. This was Andrea's final appointment before she will kill her children. The last chance for a medical professional to recognize that she still needs a lot of treatment. But Rusty told Dr. Saeed that Andrea was... Oh, excuse me, and Rusty told Dr. Saeed that Andrea was, oh excuse me, and Rusty told Dr. Saeed that Andrea was not improving.

Rusty asked about restarting the medication. Dr. Saeed refused, saying it was, quote, bad medicine. Rusty brought up electroconvulsive therapy, but was told that was only for patients with severe mental illness. And Dr. Saeed refused to try Howdol again or readmit Andrea to the hospital. He told Andrea to think positive thoughts and prescribe the antidepressant effectser. Damn it, man. She really saw the wrong fucking doctor this time.

So sad that when Rusty is finally ready to do the right thing regarding his wife's medical care, he is working with the worst doctor she has been treated by so far. Rusty felt frustrated but didn't know what else to do. Dr. Saeed would later say that he found no evidence of psychosis when he examined Andrea on June 18th. Truth there or avoiding a lawsuit? Just two days after this appointment on June 20th, 2001, Andrea Yates will drown all five of her children in the bathtub. Andrea killed the kids in the one hour she would be alone with them that day between her

husband leaving for work and her mother-in-law arriving at the house. She called 911 soon after all the kids were dead. Prosecutors played the audio at the beginning of her later trial. Andrea said, I need a police officer. Um, I need them to come. She told the dispatcher she was quote ill. The dispatcher asked if she was alone. She answered no my kids are here Andrew did not answer the dispatchers questions about why she called 911 Then Andrew called rusty and just said you'd better come home When he asked is anyone hurt she said yes, and then added the children all of them Holy fuck. This is a parental nightmare

That is truly hard to fathom. Right? Can you imagine getting a call from your spouse or your partner and hearing that and then finding out that they have killed all of your children? Police Officer David Knapp arrived at the house at 9 55 a.m. He noticed that Andrea's clothing and hair were wet. He asked her why she needed the police and she just flat-out said, I killed my kids. Officer Knapp then followed Andrea down a hallway and noticed that the carpet was wet. He saw the footprints of an adult and a child. Andrea led him to a bedroom where he saw a small limp arm sticking out from underneath the covers. The bodies of Mary, Paul, Luke, and John

were on the bed covered by a sheet. Noah, the oldest child, just seven years old, his body is found in the bathtub. Andrea was charged with two counts of capital murder that day. At the station, she would make a chilling confession to Sergeant Eric Mel. She described in detail how she killed each of her children. Andrea said she filled the tub three inches from the top and began calling her kids into the bathroom one by one. Mary, only six months old, was lying on the bathroom floor. She called

Paul, her three-year-old, and first held him down in the water until he was dead. And then after he was dead she put him in a back bedroom and covered his body. She then killed Luke, her two-year-old, same way, followed by John, her five-year-old, and then Mary the baby. She called Noah in last. And Noah, old enough to see what was happening, tried to run away from her. Andrea was asked if he got out of the bathroom or if she was able to catch him, and she said, I got him. Noah fought her while she pushed him under the surface of the water, but he wasn't strong enough. When Sergeant Mel asked Andrea why she wanted to drown her children, she paused for a good 15 seconds and then said nothing.

She later said, or didn't answer, you know, moved on. She later said that the kids had behavior and learning problems and she had thought about killing them for the past two years. She said in her confession, I realized it was time to be punished. The sergeant asked what she needed to be punished for and Andrea said for not being a good mother. Andrea was now putting a cell on suicide watch and started taking medication which helped her talk later about what had happened. She said she believed Satan was inside her and the only way to get rid of him was for her to be executed. Not just die, executed. And she said she knew she would be executed if she killed her children because then she would get the death penalty. she knew she would be executed if she killed her children because then she would get the death penalty. Andrea started working with a defense attorney soon, George Parnham. Parnham recalled that when he first met Andrea she was rocking back and forth and picking at her scalp, her raw scalp,

because she was looking for a sign of the beast on her skin. Thank you Michael fucking stupid name! Michael Woronecki! Way to put all that salvation fear inside her fragile head. Good job, fuckface. First thing she said to her attorney was, when can I go to death row? Parnham would later tell the jury, if this woman doesn't meet the test of insanity in this state, nobody does. We might as well wipe it from the books. He knew he was facing a difficult trial now. Texas was executing the most people out of any state at this time. In Harris County where the crimes took place, top county for executions in Texas. Andrew pled not guilty by reason of insanity.

In Texas, the defendant can only be found not guilty by reason of insanity. If they do not know right from wrong at the time of the crime. Texas law is based on the Mignotin rule. The Mignotin rule comes from a 19th century British case. The Mignotin rule is a two-part test that defines insanity. According to the journal, the Lancet, a person is insane if, through a disease of the mind, existing at the time of the crime, he or she either does not know the nature and quality of the act, or if the person was aware of the act, he or she did not know the difference between right and wrong.

However, the Texas Standard dispenses with the first part of this test and is limited to the question of whether the defendant knew the act to be right or wrong. But the meaning of wrong, legally wrong, or morally wrong, is not defined. Rusty stood by his wife throughout the legal process and told the press that Andrea killed the children because of her mental illness. Both Rusty and Andrea's family believed that her behavior was caused by a combination of antidepressants improperly prescribed by Dr. Said. But also, if Rusty would have fucking listened to Dr. Flack or so many other doctors, pretty

much every other mental health professional Andrews saw before Dr. Said, those kids would very likely still be alive. Some of Andrews' family accused Rusty of not doing enough to assess her mental illness, and I would strongly agree. Brian Andrews' brother said in a group interview with Houston Station KTRK that Russell was unemotional and inattentive. And also for years he put his religious beliefs far ahead of medical advice. Andrea went to trial February 18, 2002 facing the death penalty.

Her attorney George Parham told the jury in his opening statement, Our experts will tell you that the psychosis and the delusions that caused a loving mother to do what occurred on the 20th of June were so severe that it was so long-standing that Andrea Yates' ability to think in abstract terms, to give narrative responses, to be able to connect the dots, was impaired. The defense argued that Andrea was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis, amongst other things. Prosecution accepted that Andrea was mentally ill, but also believed she knew her actions were wrong, which meant she did not fit the state's legal definition of insanity.

Dr. Melissa Ferguson, a jail psychiatrist, testified about her session with Andrea on June 21, 2001. She said Andrea told her, My children were not righteous. I let them stumble. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell. Andrea believed she was a bad mother. She said, it was a seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved.

Better for someone to tie a millstone around their neck and cast them in a river than stumble. They were going to perish. During her interview, Andrea also suddenly screamed, I was so stupid. She continued saying, Couldn't I have killed just one to fulfill the prophecy? Couldn't I have offered Mary? When Andrea stopped screaming, she asked for a razor to shave her head. She wanted to see if the marks of the beast were still there. The defense then called on forensic psychiatrist Dr. Philip Resnick as an expert witness. He

interviewed Andrea three weeks after the murders.. Philip Resnick as an expert witness. He interviewed Andrea three weeks after the murders. Dr. Resnick testified that Andrea suffered from schizophrenia and major depression that impaired her behavior and thinking and resulted in delusions, hallucinations, and social withdrawal. Dr. Resnick told the jury, In my opinion, even though she knew it was against the law, she did what she thought was right in the world she perceived through her psychotic eyes at the time. In her confession video, Andrea said that Satan told her she was such a bad mother that she had to kill her children to prevent them from going to hell.

She believed the state would execute her and then Satan would be eliminated from the world, which would save her children. She also told Dr. Resnick in an interview with him, these were their innocent years. God would take them up. Here is a little bit of audio footage from that interview so you can hear from the source. What were you trying to accomplish then when you did take your children's lives? Maybe in their innocent years, God would take them up. God would take them up to be in heaven. Is that what you mean? All right. And if you had not taken their lives, what did you think would happen to them? I guess they would have continued stumbling. Stumbling.

In hell. In hell. Very worried about our kids going to hell. And she does not look well in this video. Not at all. Her emotional tone is very, very flat. She seems to have a hard time understanding simple questions when the interview continues. Yeah, she's clearly severely mentally ill. The prosecution called on Dr. Park Dietz, a famous psychiatrist and a consultant for the show Law and Order, as an expert rebuttal witness. Dr. Dietz, we've heard about him before. He's testified in many high-profile cases, including the trials of former suck subjects Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, Arthur Shawcross, that lumpy-headed fuck,

William Bonnell, Billy gutterballs. Dr. Dietz would testify that Andrea got the idea to drown her children from an episode of Law and Order. According to the journal, the land said Dr. Dietz actually has no expertise on postnatal disorders. He stopped treating patients in the early 80s and last saw a patient for postpartum depression in 1977. He said he was not sure he had ever seen a case of postnatal depression with psychotic

features. Yet he testified as an expert witness anyway. Testified that Andrea did not suffer from hallucination, she experienced instead obsessive intrusive thoughts. Andrea had an interview with Dr. Dietz November 7, 2001. In it, she told him she decided to kill her kids the night before the drownings. She also told him on the day of the murders, her son Paul heard Mary crying and came to the bathroom, saw the water in the tub, asked if they were going to take a bath that day. Andrea then said, I needed to go ahead and do it. She didn't feel like she was ready before this point when Dietz asked her how she prepared herself. Andrea simply said, just mentally, to do it. When Noah came into the bathroom, he saw

Mary floating face down in the tub and asked mommy, what's wrong with Mary. Andrea told Dr. Dietz that Noah might have then said I'm sorry as she was drowning him, but she couldn't remember. Oh my god. Dr. Dietz asked her why she called the police and she responded that's who you call when you've done something wrong. Dr. Dietz before you did it, did you think it was wrong? And Andrea responded no. He continued why did you not think it was wrong? And she replied, if I didn't do it, they would be tormented by Satan. It was a bad choice. I shouldn't have done it. There was distress, but I still felt I had to do it.

Dietz asked, as you drown each one, did you think it was the right thing to be doing? Andrea nodded yes. Dietz asked if she thought about heaven while she did it, and Andrew said she was praying her kids would go to heaven while she did it. Andrew told him she believed she was psychotic when she thought the devil was guiding her and that the devil left after she committed the crime. Dietz asked why Satan would leave after she had obeyed him, and Andrew replied, He destroys, and then he leaves.

At trial, Dietz testified that Andrea knew right from wrong during the homicide phase and post-homicide phase. Dietz found that she did not experience some psychosis on the day of the murders, but her symptoms worsened the next day. Excuse me, she did experience some psychosis on the day of the murders, but then her symptoms worsened the next day in jail. He spoke on Andrea's actions during the drowning, saying, I would expect her to try and comfort the children, telling them that they're going to be with Jesus or with God. But she does not offer words of comfort to the children. Yeah, because she's

fucking insane. She's not going to act in some logical manner. She's completely out of her fucking mind. He expects that Andrea would have talked to a friend or minister about her feelings of being tormented by demons. In his opinion, Andrea felt controlled by her life circumstances and her two previous suicide attempts were her way of escaping her quote intolerable situation. He testified, if it's true that she believed that killing the children would save them, then why would she not want it to happen?

She would want to talk about it. So it came true and the children would be saved. So I concluded at that point, she's keeping it secret. She knows that other people are going to stop her and that it's wrong, that it's a bad idea. She admits that she knows people will stop her. On cross examination, Dr. Dietz was asked about his work as a consultant on law and order,

which Andrea was quote, known to watch. He was asked whether any of the episodes he worked on concerned postpartum depression or women's mental health. And he responded, as a matter of fact, there was a show of a woman with postpartum depression who drowned her children in the bathtub and was found insane and it was aired shortly before the crime occurred. That's pretty big testimony. In closing arguments, assistant DA Kaylin Williford said the children were helpless and that Noah Yates was drowned in water that contained

vomit and feces from his previously murdered siblings. Jesus. She had the jury sit in silence for three minutes in the courtroom, which is how long it takes for a kid to lose consciousness. She reminded the jury that Andrea told the officer on the scene, I killed my kids, that she did not say I saved my kids. On March 12, 2002, Andrea is found guilty of two counts of capital murder. But then, before the sentencing phase, the defense finds a huge flaw in Dr. Dietz's testimony.

They prepared to call show producers from Law & Order as witnesses, but Dietz wrote a letter to prosecutors acknowledging the big error. He wrote, My memory about the content of the show was incorrect. I was confounding the facts of three filicide cases I worked on. Susan Smith, Amy Grossberg, and Melissa Drexler, and two episodes of Law and Order that were based in part on those cases.

His statement that, "...there was a show of a woman with postpartum depression who drowned her children in the bathtub and was found insane and it was aired shortly before the crime occurred was flat out wrong. No such episode had aired." He admitted he was also wrong about being told directly that Andrea watched the show. He was not told that. He read a doctor's report where Rusty once mentioned that Andrea liked to watch every

episode. And he further clarified that Andrea said nothing to him about law and order when they spoke. The jury now voted to spare Andrea from the death penalty. On March 15, 2002, she was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole in 40 years. Immediately after sentencing, Rusty told the media that the family felt let down by the mental health and criminal justice system. He was finally able to speak after a gag order had been lifted. But also, I would argue that no one let Andrea down more than Rusty Yates. He had many, many chances to help her follow psychiatric advice before they saw Dr. Said and he consistently just kept going against

that advice. Rusty answered the question of why he didn't find another doctor after disagreeing with Dr. Said or why he left Andria alone with the kids. He said, we didn't see her as a danger. Get the fuck out of here. The real question to me is how could she have been so ill and the medical community not diagnose her, not treat her, and obviously not protect our family from her? But they had effectively treated her. She was on a good prescription regimen before her final pregnancy and you urged her to stop taking it so you could continue to be fruitful and multiply. I get why he doesn't want to accept this though, right? Doing so would mean he was complicit to some degree, even if it's just a tiny degree, in his children's deaths. Not an easy thing to admit, right? I can't imagine. A lot easier just to blame others. Rusty Yates later told Time in 2002 that he believed demonic forces took hold of his wife, saying,

The Bible says the devil prowls around looking for someone to devour. I look at Andrea and I think that Andrea was weak. Think about a field of deer and there's one limping around. And that's the kind of way I see it. Andrea was weak and he attacked her. Yeah, totally. See now he doesn't have to ever take any responsibility. It wouldn't matter what medication she took, right? It was never about mental illness or medication.

It was just about the devil. What a great way to outsource just any and all moral responsibility. Andrew's legal team filed an appeal and presented arguments to the first court of appeals in Houston on December 14th, 2004. Then on January 6th, 2005, the first court of appeals overturned Andrew's conviction and ruled that Aronia's testimony may have influenced the jury. Meanwhile, Rusty Yates initiates divorce proceedings against Andrea. Their divorce is finalized March 17, 2005. He remarried Laura Arnold March 18, 2006. A woman he will have a son with, Mark Yates, in 2008. Andrea's retrial started June 22, 2006. Much of the testimony is very similar to the first trial. Andrea's former psychologist,

Dr. Eileen Starbrinch, told the court that Andrew was among the five sickest patients she had ever seen. That's saying a lot, right? This, you know, working psychiatrist among the five sickest patients she'd ever seen. Outside of court on July 9th 2006, Dr. Moira Dolan, an executive director of the Medical Accountability Network, said she discovered the possibility that the antidepressant effectsor was found to potentially increase the risk of homicidal thoughts. She alleged the drug's manufacturer did not warn the public. She was right in the timeline with the Andrea Yates case.

In 2005, homicidal ideation was added to a list of rare adverse effects on the label. Andrea was taking twice the recommended dose a month before the drownings. This announcement did not affect her trial. The jury began deliberating and on July 22nd 2006, Andrea was now found not guilty by reason of insanity. In January 2007, Andrea was transferred from the North Texas State Hospital to the Kerrville State Hospital in Kerrville, Texas. 2012 would mark the 10-year anniversary of Andrea's first trial. That year, an unidentified church approved Andrea to attend Sunday services.

Her attorney, George Parnham, expected doctors to file a letter to the state district court recommending a two-hour pass to allow Andrea to attend church, but that petition was denied. February 2014, Andrea and her doctors requested that she be allowed to attend supervised group outings with the other patients but that request later withdrawn due to media attention and public scrutiny. 2015 Rusty told Oprah Oprah Winfrey that he forgave Andrea adding, forgiveness kind of implies that I have ever really blamed her in some sense I've never really blamed her because I've always blamed her illness. But did you blame the illness, Rusty?

Or did you blame the devil? Which is it? 2016, George Parnham and his wife Mary created the Yeats Children Memorial Fund to help raise awareness of post-Parnham depression. The Houston Chronicle reported that Andrea keeps up with the fund. Mary Parnham said Andrea was thrilled the good things were being done in her children's honor. Still today, Andrea remains incarcerated at the Kerrville State Hospital, a low-security facility. She is the only patient there who is never allowed to leave the facility. That is how mentally ill she still is. She spends her days watching old videos of her children walking around the grounds of the facility,

making aprons, cards, and artwork as she can, which she sells anonymously, so she can donate the proceeds to her Children's Memorial Fund. For many years, Andrea has been eligible to undergo a yearly review to determine if she is competent to leave the facility. Every year, she waives her right to do this, to have this review, choosing to stay and continue with her treatment. Andrea is eligible for a full release in 2041. She'll be 77 years old. In an April 6, 2022 interview with the Today Show, her attorney George Parnam said that

Yates is doing very well. He added, I see her once, maybe every two months. I talked to her last week. She has a cell phone and we visit. You know, she's so happy when I go to Galveston and I go out to the cemetery and get some flowers for the kids. I'll tell her what I've done and she is delighted that someone is out there, that someone is

out there taking care of the kids' graves. Her former husband Rusty, he received a doctorate of law degree in 2013 from the University of Houston Law Center and from what I can tell, still works for NASA. If you or someone you know is dealing with the effects of postpartum depression call the Postpartum Support International hotline [phone] that's 1-800-944-4773 or you can go to www.postpartum.net. And that is it for another edition of Time Suck Short Sucks Heavy Shit Rights. And mental illness is no joke.

And you cannot pray it away. That was not the episode I expected when I picked this topic. I thought she was a dirt bag who killed her kids because you want to be a mom. Not the case. Yeah, if you need help get help from professionals, you know before you do something They can never be undone if I prayed I would pray for Andrea Yates to find peace I don't think she was or is a monster I think she was someone who was seriously mentally ill still is meant very mentally ill and just didn't consistently get the help and support She's so desperately needed. If you enjoyed this story, check out the rest of the Bad Magic catalog, beefier episodes

of Time Suck every Monday at noon pacific time, and new episodes of the now long running paranormal podcast Scared to Death every Tuesday at midnight with episodes of nightmare fuel twice a month currently, some fictional horror stories for you to enjoy on the Scared to Death feed. Thank you to Olivia Lee for the initial research and thanks to Logan Keith recording and uploading today's episode. Please go to badmagicproductions.com for all your bad magic needs and have yourself a great weekend. Add Magic Productions