Timesuck with Dan Cummins - Short Suck #42: The Dingo Took the Baby: The Lindy Chamberlain Saga

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

In 1980, a camping trip at Australia’s magical Uluru sandstone monolith turned into an international media storm when nine-week-old Azaria Chamberlain disappeared from her family’s tent. Her mother, Lindy, cried out that a dingo had taken her baby. What followed was a decades-long battle of flawed science, media hysteria, wrongful conviction, and one of the most infamous trials in Australian history.For Merch and everything else Bad Magic related, head to: https://www.badmagicproductions.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to another edition of Time Suck, Short Sucks. I'm Dan Cummins, and today I'll be sharing the story of Lindy Chamberlain, well-known to Australians as the woman their nation mistreated, better known to the rest of the world as the woman behind the misquote that became an international punchline, a dingo ate my baby. If anything is going to make you a bit more suspicious of evidence, for the rest of your life, it's this case. Words and ideas can change the world.

but I wanted to love my mother. I have a dream. I'll plead not guilty right now. Your only chance is to leave with us. It was just after nightfall on August 17, 1980, at a remote campsite by Australia's famous Uluu Rock, formerly known when our story took place as Ayers Rock, when a woman's anguish scream tore through the dark.

Fellow campers, some cooking dinner over a campfire, others reading in their tents, jumped up to see what the commotion was about. Lindy Chamberlain, a young mother and a pastor's wife in her early 30s, had just gone to check on her nine-week-old daughter, Azaria, who was meant to be sound asleep in the family tent. But when Lindy looked inside the tent, she discovered that her baby was gone. My God, my God, the dingo's got my baby.

Lindy Chamberlain screamed, now understandably in hysterics. What parent would not be in hysterics? Ironically, though, her lack of appearing hysterical later would turn her into a national villain. That and what Lindy had claimed to see that night just didn't make sense to most Australians at the time. A dingo, slinking out of the family tent, shaking something, something that turned out to be a baby in its jaws. To many Australians, that seemed impossible. Dingo's a native wild canine were just not considered that dangerous, at least not to humans at this time. The 30 to 45 pound creatures typically no more than two feet high at the shoulders,

generally eat rodents, rabbits, small lizards, and birds, not humans, not of any size. But what did seem dangerous was Lindy, with her oddly calm demeanor and religious beliefs that were perceived as being bizarre. And then came the evidence, or at least what seemed like evidence, suggesting that something was sinister. That maybe Lindy wasn't a grieving mother. Maybe she was responsible all along, killing her own baby Azariari. in an incredibly bloody manner, like something out of Macbeth. What followed over the coming decades were four inquests,

two wrongful convictions, an international punchline, one Oscar-nominated performance from Merrill Streep and two deaths, and an entire continent completely divided. From the 1980s and to the 2000s, experts and judges would deliberate over saliva, bloodstains, dingo teeth, and clothing. Today, we're going to go through all the conflicting evidence and the tragic truth behind the meme

and seek to answer why for many Australians. one question still remains. Did a dingo really take that baby? Yes. Lindy Chamberlain was born March 4th, 1948 on the North Island of New Zealand. When Lindy was 20 months old, her family crossed the Tasman Sea and moved to Australia. Lindy's dad was a pastor, and in 1969, she would marry another pastor, Michael Chamberlain. Chamberlain was a pastor of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, a Christian denomination that observes Sabbath the day of rest on Saturday as opposed to Sunday and generally promotes a straight-edge lifestyle while awaiting for the second coming of Jesus Christ generally considered to be pretty imminent. More actively they look towards this than most other

Christian denominations. Until then, Adventists believe that Jesus labors in a literal heavenly sanctuary continuing the work he started here on earth. Lindy Chamberlain was, by all accounts, a devoted pastor's wife, actively involved in church life. On the side, she also worked as a dressmaker and a tailor specializing in wedding dresses. She had no history of violence, no history of mental illness, no criminal history whatsoever. Seemed like a good person. Was a good person. 1973, Lindy gave birth to the couple's first son, Aden. Three years later came Reagan. The young family of four lived in Mount Isa, a mining town, a fairly isolated town in tropical northern Queensland of just under 20,000 people.

Mount Isa was known most for what lays beneath it, copper, and so much of it. It was, and still is, one of Australia's largest copper producers and home to the most productive, one of the most productive, you know, copper mines in world history. This area being full of copper will actually factor into Lindsay's trial, Lindy's trial, I was going to say Lindsay in an unexpected way. On June 11th, 1980, Lindy and Michael's first daughter,

Azaria, Chantel, Lauren Chamberlain was born. Michael Chamberlain worked long hours as a pastor, often traveled cross-country for mission trips. But in August of 1980, it was not a mission or a sermon calling him just the promise of an open road and some quality family time. Michael, Lindy, and their three young children packed up their canary yellow Holden Tarana hatchback, set off on a family road trip to Uluru, a 550 million. million-year-old gigantic sandstone rock, rising over 1,000 feet from miles and miles of nearly perfectly flat ground around it, a massive, magical-looking monolith, protruding out in the middle of thousands of miles, a flat Australian desert, actually.

A quick note on why Uluru is also referred to as Ayer's Rock. Aluru is the original indigenous name and the one officially used by the National Park. Ayer's Rock was the name given by European colonizers. It's the name used in Chamberlain Court Records. Today, the two names often use interchangeably, but Uluru is now the official, culturally respectful, preferred term in Australia. Uluru has been a sacred place for the local and a new people

for thousands and thousands of years, home to numerous caves, springs, and petroglyphs. A very, very cool place. I would love to visit someday. A very cool place to take a family camping trip. Or at least it was supposed to have been a very cool place to do that. after three days of driving interstate from northern queensland to the northern territory the chamberlains arrived on saturday evening pulling up at a campground it was dark when they got there and given it was a school holiday the area was already pretty packed with families and bus tour groups the chamberlains pitched their tent and they called it a night the next morning on august 17th nineteen eighty the young family awoke to see uluuru in all its glory this red rock is taller than the isle tower with a circumference of five point

and eight miles or 9.4 kilometers takes an average of around three to three and a half hours to walk around the base of the single rock. Lindy, Michael, and their children spent today exploring the outback landscape around the sacred rock, befriending other tourists and couples along the way. When admiring some rock art at Fertility Cave, a formation at the base of Aluru. Lindy holding a wide-awake area in her arms got an eerie feeling like she was being watched, and she looked up and, sure enough, perched on a ledge above. was a dingo staring not just at lindy but at baby azaria uh while lindy did not have a good feeling about this she also didn't really worry about her family being in danger because back

then australians did not lose sleep over dingoes right and why should they they had bigger fish to fry when it came to dangerous creatures uh box jellyfish saltwater crocodiles eastern brown snakes funnel web spiders and more dingoes are mostly just viewed as an occasional nuisance they look like regular medium-sized mutts, maybe just leaner and tougher. Genetically, they sit somewhere between wolves and domesticated dogs. Roughly the same size as a coyote, a little bit smaller usually, but not much. Australian cattle dogs sometimes called red healers or blue healers or even occasionally Queensland healers are thought to have some dingo blood in them.

Dingoes are a sacred animal to many indigenous Australian communities seen as hunting companions and to many as just, you know, part of the family. And now we know that the dingo is capable of killing a human today, but then, back then, you know, pre-Chamberland times, dingo's not considered by white non-indigenous Australians, at least, as a threat to human life. Later in the evening, after spending their first full-day camping, back at the campground, the chamberlains were unwinding by the campfire with some newfound outback friends. Lindy rocked baby Azaria in her arms while chatting with fellow camper Sally Lowe, and once Azaria had finally seen, settled down, Lindsay left the group to go put his area down to sleep in the family tent. Four-year-old Reagan was already there sleeping, zipped up in his sleeping bag. Lindy tucked his area into her bassinet and then retrieved a can of baked beans from the car,

which was parked directly beside the tent so she could feed her other son, Aden, you know, who was complaining about being hungry. Within 10 minutes, Lindy had rejoined her husband and the group back at the barbecue fire pit area. Everything was going great. Quality family time, meeting new people. enjoying the rugged beauty of the outback, grilling up some food for what should have been a lovely dinner. No one, of course, could have known

that all hell was about to break loose. Dinner preparation, so scary. Actually, when you look back at these things, it just freaks me out sometimes to think about how in life, everything, not to be like a downer. And I know statistically, you know, it's not likely that all hell is going to break loose

at any point in your life, but it is fucking terrifying to think that, like, yeah, one second, everything is just going great. You're having a beautiful day. And, like, 10 minutes later, you're trapped in a fucking nightmare. That's what happens here. Dinner preparations, you know, now underway,

are disrupted when Sally and Michael both hear a short cry coming from the Chamberlain's tent. And then this cry is abruptly cut off, unlike your standard wailing baby's cry. Lindy had not heard anything, but she was a bit worried when she was told about the cry because Zaria was a deep sleeper normally. So if she cried out,

something must have greatly disturbed her. So Lindy now leaves the group, starts walking towards a tent, about 65 feet away from where dinner was being cooked up, you know, to go investigate. Although the tent's entrance faced the barbecue area, it was also partially obscured by a large bush. It was now around 8 p.m.

So the sun had set, Lindy's path to the tent was barely lit with the only light coming from the barbecue area behind her. As Lindy neared the tent, a young dingo, likely still a pup with its fluffy coat and bushy tail, slinked out of her family's tent. The dingo was shaking its head, carrying something in its mouth

but Lindy could not make out whatever it was in the low light fuck she's still not worried about her kids she remembered that Michael left his shoes by the tent you know the entrance of the tent and she yelled reflexively telling the dingo to get out

drop it thinking it was probably just you know one of his shoes and then it dawned on Lindy that Azaria's tiny head was uncovered in the bassinet and she worried that perhaps the dingo had nudged her or worse maybe even bitten her.

Was that why she had cried? But why wasn't she crying now? Well, Lindy gets very worried, understandably. She picks up speed, runs towards, then practically dives into the tent. Inside, she finds clothes, strewn, droplets of blood everywhere, and Azaria's bassinet empty. Lindy quickly felt around for little Reagan, who's fast asleep, zipped up in a sleeping bag. She then backed out of the tent.

And as she began, of course, to fucking panic, she cried out into the dark, a dingo's got my baby. A mother's tragic cry That would be later twisted into a dark punchline Of a dingo ate my baby Holy shit Lindy sprinted in the direction of where she had lasting the dingo But it had disappeared into the darkness

Some nearby campers heard Lindy screams Scramble to find flashlights To join her search Scouring the patchy scrub for a dingo and a baby Or any sign of movement or life Someone zipped off to call the local police From a pay phone Someone else, a ranger

Soon hundreds of people camping in the area joined the search, forming a human chain, combing through the dusty dirt and patchy bushland in the darkness. Soon the police arrived, Lindy and Michael Chamberlain stayed back and talked with officers at their requests. These poor bastards. By trying to ask questions, answer questions, while their fucking baby is missing, can you imagine? While realizing that a dingo has almost certainly got a hold of this baby, has dragged her bleeding body out into the night, not looking good. other campers and some local indigenous trackers soon went off searching on solo missions following dingo paw prints along the red sand ridge

and that evening a faint impression was discovered in the soil of what looked like the outline of a knitted garment before long midnight had passed and the chamberlains had checked into the uluro motel to be with their other two young children to be able to answer more police questions be by phone while others strangers to the chamberlains before tonight continued searching long into the early hours for their daughter. Early morning hours, but there was still no sign of Azaria. What a terrible, terrible thing to experience. That same night, Michael would say to one camper, she's probably dead now.

Dark, but I'd probably be thinking the same fucking thing, as much as I wouldn't want to be. He also speaking to the police requested that Azaria's body be returned, quote, no matter in what condition found. That night, both Michael and Lindy spoke of, quote, God's will, which some were unnerved by, shocked by what they perceived as the Chamberlain's premature acceptance of Azaria's death. You know what? Everybody grieves differently. Everybody accepts tragedy differently.

Everybody's going to react differently while they're in shock. I'm not going to lie, that reaction would also weird me out, but it wouldn't necessarily make me think they had done anything terrible. This response was actually very consistent with Seventh-day Adventist doctrine, where death is considered, nothing more than a temporary deep sleep

until Jesus Christ returns. You know, what a truly comforting thing to believe, actually. And according to this belief, Lindy and Michael just likely had faith that Azalia, or Azaria, excuse me, was now resting, and would one day be reunited with them for all of eternity.

Much lighter, much less harsh thing to believe, obviously, than, say, the atheist take, which is that their daughter's precious little light had been snuffed out never to shine again. That whoever she was, whatever she was going to be, that had been erased forever. Days will pass, with no sign of his area, or

anything that might have happened to her. No blood trail, No bones, no clothing, until exactly one week following her disappearance on August 24th, 1980, a tourist named Wally Goodwin is hiking with his family. Why does Wally strike me as like a perfectly Australian name? I have no idea if there's more wallace in Australia than in other countries. Wally? That's not a terrible fucking Australian accent. I had two for one way, by the way, too. But Wally, I'm like, yeah, now that tracks.

That makes sense that a guy named Wally would be out there. Sorry, I don't want my brain went there. But this tourist name Wally Goodwin is hiking with his family. around the base of Uluru when his daughter lets out a terrible scream. There lying amongst some boulders close to a dingo layer is a pile of clothing, a blood-stained jumpsuit, a tiny singlet, and a nappy. The clothes are torn but largely intact. They're found about two and a half miles from where the Chamberlains had pitched their tent.

Zaria's disappearance now had all the hallmarks of an open and shut case, a mother's testimony of a dingo, corroborated dingo sightings, friends and family all around his alibis, and now bloody clothing, but this discovery was just the start of this case turning against the Chamberlains. Before we find out how public opinion turns on Lindy, time for this week's first to two Mitcho sponsor breaks. If you don't want to hear these ads, please sign it to be a space list on Patreon, get the catalog ad free, get the episodes early, support charities that we donate to, that you

would donate to, and more. Thanks for listening to those ads, and now let's see how Australia reacted to the evidence that a dingo did, in fact, eat Lindy's poor child. By now the story had swept across Australia, but the thought of a dingo, stealing a baby from a tent, confused many, and many grew suspicious. However, those especially familiar with the land where this happened were not so quick to dismiss that possibility.

Derek Ruff, Uluru's chief ranger from 1968 to 1985, confirmed that dingoes had been getting boulder in the years leading up to Azaria's disappearance, fueled by tourists illegally feeding them. Some had attacked children, and some of their bites had drawn blood. Raf had, in fact, written numerous letters to the Australian government in the years leading up to the tragedy, urging for a dingo coal. You know, there was too many in the area. He wanted to have a lot of them exterminated.

He warned of an imminent human tragedy. Indigenous Australians and early chroniclers of rural life also knew that dingoes were proven baby snatchers, but in 20th century Australia, late 20th century Australia, a more palatable story was cemented in the zeitgeist, namely the dingoes were timid animals, cute, harmless, and less provoked. Classic example of humans continually forgetting that wild animals are exactly that. They're wild animals.

Predators are predators, right? Even if they're cute. Bobcats are cute. And yet I have zero interest in ever getting near one because they can also be fucking ferocious in their claws are very sharp. Years of relentless dingo control efforts had reduced the amount of human dingo interactions

in populated areas. most Australians lived in urban areas so they had never seen a dingo up close and personal before for us Americans hearing that a dingo took somebody's baby would kind of be like hearing that a raccoon had taken a baby you know so hearing that somebody's baby was taken by a raccoon out of their tents you'd be like eh was it

and because so few could believe a dingo was capable of such an act a lot of suspicion now fell squarely on lindy chamberlain Lindy both stylish and stoic at 32 years old quickly drew the ire of both the media and the public She snapped at reporters who asked inappropriate questions As she should have recounted events in a monotone voice without crying Far from the hysterical anguish

That people expected that people wanted to see From a grieving mother Australia recoiled collectively watching Lindy describe In a clinical almost detached manner Howie Dingle rips the skin off its prey saying quote they use their feet like hands and pull back the skin as they go

and they'll just peel it like an orange I mean yeah that's that's pretty fucking gruesome depiction to give anybody of what likely it just happened to your baby but again she is grieving she's in shock you know everybody handles things differently also she is leaning on her faith right

doesn't matter what you or I believe she believed that her baby was still alive that her pain had been very brief very temporary and that she will be rejoined with her child's soul one day up in heaven At this time, the Seventh-day Adventist religion was a denomination totally alien to most Australians. In 1981, there were around 40,000 Seventh-day Adventists in all of Australia, and not all of them were telling everybody exactly what they believe in. For reference at this time, there was 35,000 Buddhists in Australia, a nation of, at that time, about 15 million people, you know, just like the average American doesn't know a whole lot about Buddhism.

The average Australian didn't know a whole lot about the Seventh-day Adventists. people now started coming out of the woodwork with their baseless hot takes for one that Lindy Chamberlain was a religious nut with quote, kill her eyes I mean look at her eyes. Look at the way her eyes look. She had to have killed her baby.

You know, she cares more about looking glam than about the death of her child. Rumors circulated that the Seventh-day Adventist Church was a bloodthirsty cult that practiced literal infant sacrifice. Reminds me of claims here in America, you know, people see some like buddy that are people that are Satanus

or that they perceive as Satanus or you know they lump in any kind of pagan belief with Satanism and they're like they sacrifice the babies I mean a lot of people it's fucking crazy a lot of people in the US and I've met these people actually believe

that it's almost like common knowledge that like Jewish people fucking sacrifice Christian babies like it's insane so I'm not surprised the people like oh yeah the 7th Adventists they eat babies or they believe that like you know Lindy neglected his area post birth

because she just randomly hated her third child. Why? Well, people don't have answers for stuff like that. They're just like, ah, she hated her baby. Look at her eyes. She hated that kid. There was rumors that she once brought Azaria in for a checkup dressed entirely in black. So obviously, she wanted her baby to die because she's dressed as one would dress for a funeral, at least in color.

Because, you know, people just never just randomly dressed in black. The media actually reported on rumors linking the Chamberlains to the Jones Town mass suicide, just two years earlier, even though the Seventh-day Adventist Church had literally fucking nothing to do with that. Sensationalism. I think sometimes we forget that it is not a recent invention.

People have always loved to gossip and just spread bullshit as truth. Right? We've been dealing with so-called journalists who peddle in gossip instead of truth for as long as there have been journalists. Right? Whatever sells sells. Don't let the truth get in the way.

Inspector Michael Gilroy's fucking police report included a claim that Azaria's alleged doctor or from Azaria, excuse me, alleged doctor, that the name of Zaria actually meant sacrifice in the wilderness. He cited a baby name book from a library that no one could ever locate because he just randomly pulled that shit out of his ass. I guess he, I don't know, what a fucking cunt, just wanted some attention from a media or something.

That was just patently false. That was just wildly untrue. Zaria is actually a Hebrew name that means helped by God. Doesn't have shit to do with sacrifice. Religion made, you know, the public suspicious, anxiety around the perception of a bad mother made Lindy unlikable, but it would actually be science. Something meant to be objective that would do the most to put the Chamberlains,

well, one of the Chamberlains in jail and get, you know, both of them charged with some stuff. According to early forensic testing, no dingo saliva was found on Azaria's recovered jumpsuit. Of course, to Lindy, that made total sense. She had insisted that Azaria had worn a matinee jacket over her jumpsuit, but there was no proof of that because they hadn't found the jacket, It's just Lindsay's word against a mountain of circumstantial evidence yet to come. And then there was a jumpsuit itself. Investigators could not understand how it had remained so intact.

Now, if you've ever seen a dog, mall a toy, or a pillow, you'll know, they try to bite, shake, shred, rip. But Azari's recovered jumpsuit was still fastened up by two studs to the neck. The main tear was clean and surgical looking, as if it came from scissors, not teeth. To determine the cause of death, the first coronial inquest was announced, U.S. terms. This is the equivalent of a medical examiner or just a coroner's report where the who, what, when, why, and how of a death is established before a criminal trial can proceed. To find out just what dingoes are capable of, bunch of experiments now took place around Australia. Baby goat carcasses were dressed in human baby singlets, nappies, buttoned up

jumpsuits, and then they would be tossed to hungry captive dingoes to observe how the animals would retrieve the meat. That's pretty wild. Think about scientists just calmly watching that experiment just you know throwing a fucking dead goat dressed in a baby bonnet and just like hmm uh huh

oh yeah okay uh huh oh yeah uh huh yeah okay but you know

that's how experiments got to go meanwhile wild dingoes were shot and dissected by veterinarians searching for human bones or proteins

Luru Park Rangers also provided evidence of recent attacks by supposed tame park dingoes on young children on February 20th 1981

corner Dennis Barrett delivered his verdict in a broadcast televised all across Australia watched it seemed by most of Australia a wild dingo killed his area Chamberlain that was his conclusion he said that since no dingo's saliva was found on his area's clothing she'd likely been carried by the head or the neck

coroner Barrett also apologized directly to the Chamberlains for the vicious accusations unfounded accusations they had endured saying you have not only suffered the loss of your beloved child in the most tragic circumstances but you have been subjected to months of innuendos, suspicion, and probably the most malicious gossip issued in this country. Coroner Barrett lambasted the Northern Territory Police and Forensic Unit

for their many, many missteps, including but not limited to, the inexperience of a constable who eyeballed the bloodstains in the tent and came up with some illogical conclusions, an overall lack of objectivity throughout the entire investigation. Many within the police force had doubted the Dingo's theory from the very beginning, shaped by two core beliefs, mistaken ideas about fucking dingoes and mistaken ideas about the Chamberlain's religious beliefs. However, Corner Barrett could not overlook one key detail, the state of Azaria's jumpsuit and the clean, almost surgical tear in Azaria's jumpsuit,

much too precise for a dingo's attack. It was thought. Corner Barrett accepted evidence that the cuts have been made with a sharp instrument, like scissors, perhaps. And to make sense of that, he offered a theory that there was some kind of human intervention, you know, post-death, that an unknown person may have just, you know, happened upon his area, you know, after the dingo attack. And by this point, it's, you know, obviously too late. Azaria is already dead. This person, Barrett proposed, could have just removed her body from the clothing,

discarded the clothes, since scissors were not commonly used at the time by local indigenous communities. This mysterious person was likely white. Probably didn't stick around because now they worried that they might be a suspect. But make no mistake, Corny Barrett told the courtroom and the nation, Lindy and Michael Chamberlain, were not responsible for Azaria's death, hard stop. However, these findings not well received by the Northern Territory Government or by local detectives.

And before we explore what comes next, time for today's second and two, mid-show sponsor breaks. Thanks for listening to these sponsors. I hope you heard some you liked. And now why did that evidence not exonerate the Chamberlains? The Northern Territory Government and local detectives now publicly criticized on a national stage, they were unwilling to take no for an answer that is no the chamberlains were you know they were they were not guilty uh instead of showing humility and deference to expertise they chose arrogance and stubbornness and they doubled down on their misguided beliefs their possible motive theories included the murder was committed by one of the chamberlain's sons very young sons and the parents covered it up even though there was other people around uh the chamberlans wanted notoriety uh okay that's i mean

possible i guess but fucking weird considering their background of just trying to help people uh they wanted money not sure how this was going to translate to money but all right uh lindy was jealous of her baby uh-huh even though she had two other kids that never hurt them when they were babies okay and then she had postnatal depression and just you know acted out of just mental illness okay uh zaria's bloodstained jumpsuit was sent to london handed over to fame british forensic expert professor james Cameron, for his opinion. And Professor Cameron concluded that the bloodstains came from a slashed throat.

He also mistakenly, he was wrong about that. Also mistakenly identified would appear to be a bloodied adult handprint. It was later revealed to be a dust print. And declared the tear in the jumpsuit as, you know, impossible for a dingo's bite to have created it, which is wrong.

He wasn't on his A-game. Or maybe he just made up his mind before his examination that Lindy had killed her child, not a dingo, and he just kind of half-assed it. Also, if you're wondering, how a British man became an authority on Australian dingoes, so was Lindy. She responded coolly, saying, I didn't know there were any dingo experts in London. She was right, but in the court of public opinion, saying that only hurt her further, made her seem more cold, more unlikable. Professor Cameron's report, despite its obvious intention to clear the

Chamberlain's names, especially Lindy's instead blew the case back open. Northern Territory police swarmed upon the Chamberlain's new home, search one. warrant in hand and sees hundreds of items, including the family car. Quote, unquote, blood was now found in the Chamberlain's car. It wasn't. Despite the original officer who examined the car, the night of Azaria's disappearance, having found no signs of blood, because there weren't any, quote unquote, expert analysis, claimed the spray pattern mirrored that of arterial blood, further giving weight to an emerging theory that Azaria's throat had been severed, a pair of scissors were recovered from the car,

stain with a blood-like substance along the cutting edge and hinge. It's fucking brutal. Just, oh, my God, just to accuse... I mean, I know it could happen, but, like, my God, what kind of person uses fucking scissors to just randomly out of nowhere? They're totally normal outside of this one fucking five minutes, and then they use scissors to cut their baby's throat. It will later be revealed that the blood stain in the car, again, not actually blood,

and that there was no blood on the scissors. At the time, DNA testing had not quite yet been discovered. That came years later, 1984, by British geneticists, Sir Alec Jeffreys, in its absence, the task of determining the nature of the suspected blood felt a forensic biologist Joy Kuhl. Pretty sweet name, very close to Joe Kuhl. Using multiple methods and tests, Kuhl reported a positive result for fetal hemoglobin, or gloment, fetal hemoglobin, an oxygen-carrying protein present only in babies under six months old. However, none of Kuhl's test could be independently verified.

The testing plates and gels had been destroyed. According to a later royal commission, this was in line with standard practice. In November of 1981, a second inquest is ordered. Journalist Malcolm Brown reported the first inquest was about dingoes. This one's about blood. In February of 1982, coroner Jerry Galvin ruled there was sufficient evidence to proceed with criminal charges. Lindy now charged with the murder of her daughter, with the murder of his area, Michael charged as an accessory after the fact. In September of 1982, despite having nobody, despite having nobody, despite having

no clear motive. Prosecutors get to work painting a now pregnant Lindy Chamberlain as a cold-blooded killer, who despite never hurting her other two kids, on the evening of August 17th, 1980, for some fucking reason, randomly slashed his area's throat in the front seat of the family car during the camping trip with a pair of scissors, then hid the body inside a camera bag, okay, then fabricated the dingo attack as a cover-up. The defense pushed back, insisting that this theory defied any in all logic because it did. Again, Lindy had no history of mental illness, no history of violence, no criminal history whatsoever, you know, no record, no history of being abusive to any of her children. She was never known to be an angry person. People do sometimes just snap,

but generally there are precursors. You know, new relationship stressors, financial difficulties, you know, an onset of serious mental illness, something. But here there was nothing. Prosecutors wanted to believe that this random woman completely out of the blue, just decided one day to kill her baby and kill her in an especially messy and violent manner, and doing that in the family car, no less, and then just right after that, just became the exact same person she was before.

The defense had camper Sally Lowe testified that she had unmistakably heard Zaria cry out right before Lindy went to check on her, and other witnesses talked of Lindy as a proud and loving model mother. However, neither Lindy nor Michael could definitively account for the mysterious supposed blood found in their car. but then the defense called up

Keith Lenehan to the stand a bleeding hitchhiker whom the Chamberlains had given a ride to now providing a possible explanation that should have cast reasonable doubt

on whether that blood belonged to Azaria or not. I'm not sure how blood of that hitchhiker was that just how he described as a bleeding hitchhiker painting a very weird picture in my mind

just like some guy just like calm on the side of the road thumb out but also covered in a lot of blood and then it's like yeah no we got the kids in the back right

The kids are, they'll be fine. Let's, uh, let's throw that guy in the back with him. Let's put the bloody guy in the back with the kids. It'll be great. I'm sure he just had like a scratch. Uh, plus numerous, uh, forensic experts called to the stand, uh, all criticized Joe cool's controversial testing methods and Professor Barry Botcher argued that her testing methods, uh, were prone to producing false positives.

And he was correct about that. However, the prosecution attacked his credibility. Framing Botcher as just a theoretical academic, you know, you live it in your fucking ivory tower with your books and stuff. Okay. In contrast to lab coat wearing Joe Cool's, joy Cool's, my God, hands-on experience. The jury who had no background in complex blood science could not tell who the fuck was the real expert. Lindy Chamberlain would later make some comments about the vulnerability of jury, saying,

later a juror told me that, quite frankly, they didn't understand a word of it. But that Joe Cool, Joy Cool, fuck you, Joy Cool for having a name almost identical to Joe Cool. But that Joy Cool had a nice manner And looked at them and smiled She treated them like schoolchildren Whereas the defense guy used all these big jawbreaking words Had a manner that they didn't understand Didn't care for

We're giving juries a very complex tertiary And even PhD level forensics To try to decipher and decide whether a person is guilty or innocent She said It's not their fault if they get it wrong I think it's kind of their fault sometimes Lindy was a lot more diplomatic than I would have been I would have been tempted to say

Well the problem with the jury and with a lot of juries is that a lot of people are real fucking stupid. I still think about my own one-day jury experience as a jury member years after I wrote a bit about getting out of jury duty. First off, the attorneys found out about that bit. It was on like this special of mine, so some people there knew about it. But then they still put me on the jury, which I think is weird. And then some of my fellow jurors were clearly barely smart enough to be able to get fucking dressed and drive to the courtroom. like truly wildly irrational one dude wanted to let this kid off the kid who's on trial like i say

kid he's 21 i think uh on a DUI charge let him off on a DUI charge he was blatantly guilty because this juror just didn't like cops that was seriously his reasoning he didn't care about any evidence he's just like I don't like cops and when i confronted him about how fucking ludicrous that was how it had literally nothing to do with the case he started to physically shake and i was like what what happened to you why are you upset about cops and he just basically like they just they make him anxious like this guy was a wreck there was no way this guy should have even ever been considered for possibly being a juror uh i made fun of him a little bit for being ridiculous tried to shame him uh he got pretty emotional you know he's uh he's

talked to him about like you just can't put other people's lives at risk because you know the letting this kid off this kid who was driving on the wrong side of the freeway at three o'clock in the morning after drinking somewhere between 12 and 18 beers and finally after we exchanged some profanity, uh, he relented. And I've been nervous about juries ever since. Some days, I truly wish everybody had to take an IQ test. And based on scores, some people don't ever get to be on juries. Some people don't ever get to drive or own guns or own fucking knives or even like hold somebody else's gun. A lot of people, uh, won't get to have kids in this situation for me or work with kids, you know, et cetera, et cetera, I could go on. Uh, poor Lindy Chamberlain and

her jury sided with a forensic expert for the prosecution because she seemed nice. She smiled. That's cool. Lindy's defense called up dingo expert, Les Harris, who testified that if a dingo had taken his area, it would have killed her the way it kills other prey, grabbing her by the head, clamping down hard enough to kill her almost instantly, enveloping the head in his jaws,

then leaving quickly with the body. Dingoes, he testified, usually consume mammals entirely, leaving very little blood behind. Several park rangers with actual dingo experience backed up Les Harris's claims, who had studied wild dingoes for over a decade, The prosecution then called up London-based professor James Cameron, who had a fancy degree, a title, well-spoken, but literally zero actual real-life dingo experience, wasn't even somebody who had spent time before this case studying dingoes. He relied on a study of plaster casts of dingo jaws to testify that a dingo could not open his jaws wide enough to fit a baby's head inside, which is not true.

Dingoes varied quite a bit in size. Some dingoes can absolutely for sure open their jaws wide enough, but he didn't know that or want to admit that. Ultimately, prosecutor Ian Barker delivered a brilliant courtroom performance using humor to ridicule the idea of a dingo stealthily vanishing with the baby, leaving no hair, no drag marks, then peeling said baby from his jumpsuit, booties and nappy, stacking them in a tiny bundle. He acted like, you know, we're talking about Wiley Coyote. The far-fetched fantastical nature of the dingo theory helped Barker push a more plausible alternative that a young mother slashed the throat of her first and only daughter. of the trial author of Azaria Wednesday's child James Simmons wrote Perhaps the dingo was on trial after all

And in a choice between the dingo and Lindy She simply ran second Now might be a good time to mention that the jurors Also were not sequestered They stayed in the same hotel as many of the prosecution witnesses Even went out drinking with him Also went out drinking with local police So that's cool

Even Lindy called it ridiculous to expect any kind of impartiality. On October 29th, 192, a jury will find Lindy Chamberlain guilty of the murder of his area, with Michael found guilty as an accessory after the fact. Lindy is sentenced to life in prison with hard labor, and Michael's sentence

initially deferred. He will never serve any jail time. My God, can you imagine being her? Can you imagine fucking losing your baby? But Dingo did actually eat her baby. And instead of getting, you know, sympathy, instead of, you know, people reaching out to support her, no, she's put in prison

for the rest of her life or you know was supposed to be there for the rest of her life uh november 17th lindy while in prison gave birth to her fourth child god just to add this to this tragedy uh callia then a short time later was released on bail pending appeal which was denied now out of appeals his area's death certificate formally amended to read extensive wounding to the neck consistent with the murder conviction mom goes back into her cell goes back to hard labor separated from her three living children then in nineteen 84 reports emerged that several Holden-Torana hatchbacks, the same making model of Chamberlain's car had strange spray patterns on the dashboard. It turned out to be remnants of a sound deadening spray applied during

manufacturing, not arterial blood or blood of any kind. No idea how they fucked that up. I mean, they didn't have DNA testing quite yet, but they did know how to tell the difference between blood, any type of blood, I would think, in a sound deadening spray. As that came to light, petition started to pop up across the country, thousands of Australians who once deadened. doubted Lindy now felt pretty shitty and called for her release. However, most Australians still thought she did it. A 1984 poll showed that nearly 77% of Australians still believe she was guilty. And so Lindy Chamberlain would remain behind bars until the unrelated tragedy of a stranger changed everything. Three years into her hard labor sentence, a British tourist,

David Brett, went missing while climbing Aluru. He'd fallen to his death. After he had died, some dingoes ravaged his body. And when police went searching for some of his missing body parts, they stumbled upon Azaria's missing matinee jacket, found just 160 feet or roughly 50 meters from where the rest of her clothing had been discovered years earlier. Another big fuck up. How did they not find that before?

The prosecution's main argument that no dingo saliva traces were found now came undone, a second clothing layer explaining away the missing traces. And because of this, on February 7, 1926, Lindy Chamberlain is released from prison after spending three long years behind bars and even longer than that suspected of being a murderer. All convictions against the Chamberlains

are now quashed. In 1988, a little-known movie, at least in the U.S., called Cry in the Dark is released, starring Meryl Streep and Sam Neal, which carried the story of Lindy's wrongful conviction across oceans. In her autobiography, through my eyes, Lindy called the film 95% accurate

and praised Merrill Streep's performance. After the film's released, letters of apology from the public poured in the movie's actually called evil angels in australia and maryl Streep scored a nomination for the academy award of best actress or for best actress there we go uh in the movie meryl plain lindy cries out in one scene the dingo took my baby and then people ran with a version of that a misquote called a dingo ate my baby and that misquote became a very very popular pop culture punchline it appeared in episodes of sinfield uh simpsons fraser supernatural buffalo buffford

the vampire slayer as well as in movies like Tropic Thunder. Later that same year, baby blood tester Joy Cool admitted that she made a huge mistake when reviewing her own lap note she realized she had not used proper controls when testing blood from the Chamberlain's car. Whoops, sorry about helping to put you in prison

for three years and to help most of Australia think that you're a cold-blooded baby killer, Lindy. My bad. Lindy Chamberlain later described Joy Cool as, quote, not experienced enough to know the time lag difference between a test for copper and a test for blood. but she had a nice smile

and she was friendly so you can trust her in a different interview Lindy said in the testing the difference between copper and blood is a matter of seconds

an experienced operator would know she didn't know the difference so she kept getting reactions off everything in our car because we lived in Mount Isa if you go there today and you do that presumptive test for blood

you can get it on every motel room door every car right crazy how they just just because they happen to live in an area full of copper mining how that helped Lindy end up in prison falsely convicted of killing her child because copper is just on fucking dust is just on everything there and it tested much like blood in short tests for mishandled evidence misrepresented and expert conclusions bungled in 1992 because of all that lindy and michael chamberlain will receive a combined one point three million australian dollars around two point six eight million in today's australian dollars or about one point seven million in u.s dollars in compensation from the northern territory government for Lindy's wrongful imprisonment. Seems low.

And that was not good enough for them. What they really wanted was not cash. It was to get Azaria's death certificate corrected, which kicked off a third inquest. But unfortunately, it did not go as they hoped. In 1995, coroner John Lowndes could not say for sure how Azaria died and returned an open finding. This meant that although the Chamberlains were still legally innocent, on paper, Azaria's cause of death remained unknown. And for the Chamberlains, that was not acceptable. left the door half open for continued speculation and whispers still persisted that no dingo had snatched his area that lindy had gotten away kind of with killing her child but then the early mid early in mid 2000s were a PR nightmare for dingoes in 2002 alone dingoes ate just over 100 australian babies in 2003 dingoes ate 62 babies but also a hundred and thirty-six kids under the age of twelve and five

15 seniors over the age of 70. They were getting much more aggressive. In 2004, the escalation continues. A pack of dingoes assassinated the Australian Prime Minister. Another group of dingoes detonated a bomb. The blew up a park ranger headquarters. And a third group of dingoes committed a string of bank robberies and murders. No, of course, it wasn't that dramatic.

But no, but a string of dingo attacks really did back up the Chamberlain's long-held claims. In 2001, an Australian schoolboy nine-year-old Clinton gauge. sadly mulled to death by dingoes on Fraser Island. And in 2005 and 2006, two toddlers died after attacks from dingo crossbreeds. What it once seemed far-fetched in the 1980s was now part of Australian life. Those deaths helped open the door for a fourth inquest to be held in 2012. And when it was over, coroner Elizabeth Morris tearfully apologized to the Chamberlains and officially ruled that a dingo was definitively responsible for Azaria's death,

closing the book, wanton for all, on this 32-year-long nightmare. Baby's area's death certificate finally is corrected stating her true cause of death. Damn. In the years that followed,

Lindy became an outspoken advocate against wrongful convictions and the bad mother stereotype. She publicly supported the parents of Madeline McCann, especially Kate McCann, another mother vilified for being suspiciously composed.

We actually covered poor Madeline's disappearance back in episode 440. Sorry if I'm saying, sorry if it's McCann instead of McCann, I think it's McCann, been a little bit. Back in the late 80s, that Lindy and Michael had separated, divorced in 1991, both remarried. 2017, Michael Chamberlain died from leukemia, sadly. Today, Lindy Chamberlain, very much alive. Seems very happy, which is awesome. She is now known as Lindy Chamberlain Creighton, and she lives in Australia's Hunter Valley in northern New South Wales with her second husband, Rick Creighton.

She had married Rick back in 1992 while in the U.S. on a speaking tour, and then they lived in Seattle for a few years before she came back to Australia. She published an autobiography, A Dingo's Got My Baby, Words That Divided a Nation in 2015, and she hopes to publish a children's book one day. Her case was like a real life the emperor's new clothes, everyone pretending to see something that wasn't actually there. Take the jumpsuit. Experts showed a single dingo tooth could easily tear cloth in ways nearly identifiable.

to scissors but in the end judges ruled based on gut feeling over solid evidence that the damage had to have been manmade this case was a reminder that judges are human too and like anyone they can be swayed by emotion and bias which can prevent them from reconsidering initial assumptions in the face of contradictory evidence right that damn confirmation bias uh and they can also be uh idiots right they're just humans like everybody else anybody of fucking any uh you know career choice can be an idiot i went to college with some kids who went on to become lawyers and eventually a couple became judges and you know what some oh man they were great great students very smart others i'm not sure how they graduated college let alone became judges and uh based on little interactions you know since you know seeing stuff

online i'm like how are you a judge uh this case was also a reminder that evidence is not always objective even when it seems like it has to be but it can still be uh tested and then shaped by human interpretation you know and the test can go wrong for many the chamberland case shook a core belief that science is infallible and that scientists don't ever make mistakes. I would argue they probably make less than the average person, but again, they are still human. Even after the 2012 corner's final ruling, doubts still lingered. According to one post on Lindychamberlin.com, 70% of Australians believe Lindy is innocent, reversing the 70% who thought her guilty during her trial.

But also, 30% back in 2012 still thought that she killed her baby, and that's pretty sad. As recently, 2017, former Northern Territory Chief Minister, Steve Hatton, made it clear he never believed Lindsay's story. Still didn't. He said, none of us believed that she didn't kill her baby. I believe she was suffering from stress went into a postnatal depression episode. Under normal circumstances, she would never have been convicted of murder as a result of that. That's another reminder that, you know, you definitely can be an idiot as a politician. I've just constantly back on politicians, but I think a lot of them radates.

No expertise required to be a politician. just, you know, likability, perception, popularity. One of the main reasons they're often, you know, such a wildly fucking frustrated bunch. For many Australians, the Chamberlain case is a dark stain on the nation's legal and cultural history, a nation founded by convicts that prides itself on giving everybody a fair go,

but so cruelly denies or denied one of its own, the presumption of innocence. And I guess for us all, it should be a reminder that, you know, we should all be presumed innocent until proven guilty, despite how things look. And even after somebody has been, quote, unquote, quote, proven guilty, you know, that maybe they're not, which is why appeals are so damn important. I forget that a lot.

This was a good reminder for me. And that's it for this edition of Time Suck Short Sucks. If you enjoyed this story, check out the rest of the bad magic catalog, beefier episodes at Timesuck every Monday at noon Pacific time. New episodes of the now long-running paranormal podcast, scared to death every Tuesday at midnight, with two episodes of Nightmare of Fuel, fictional horror thrown into the mix each month. thanks to a new researcher I hope we get to use her more Laura Woods for her initial research on this one

so she did a fantastic job and thank you to Logan Keith polishing up the sound of today's episode please go to bad magic productions.com for all your bad magic needs and have yourself a great weekend Mad Magic Productions