Timesuck with Dan Cummins - Short Suck #50: Presumed Guilty: The Duke Lacrosse Scandal

Episode Date: January 23, 2026

In this week's Short Suck, we revisit the 2006 Duke Lacrosse scandal—the case that felt like an open-and-shut story of privilege and violence… until the facts started falling apart, the DNA didn��t match, and the real rot turned out to be the rush to convict. It’s a brutal look at how media narratives, campus outrage, and a DA chasing votes can turn “everyone knows what happened” into one of the most infamous examples of what happens when due process gets trampled.For Merch and everything else Bad Magic related, head to: https://www.badmagicproductions.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to another edition of Time Sucks Short Sucks. I'm Dan Cummins, and today I will be sharing the story of the Duke lacrosse scandal. In March of 2006, the Duke University men's lacrosse team was in the middle of another very successful season when three other players were accused of rape, throwing both the team and the university into a massive scandal that was heavily covered by the media, and most journalists and pundits and people at home listening quickly rushed to judgment. I remember it very well. The scandal was very much framed from the very beginning. beginning as three rich entitled white college kids violently gang raped an impoverished black stripper.

I was outraged. I had 100% rushed to judgment myself. I shook my head and thought, fuck those guys. They thought they were above the law. They're about to find out they're not. How dare they think they can use and abuse some woman they probably didn't even see as an equal human being? Hope they throw the book at them. Hope they never get out of prison. Hope someone rapes them in prison. I thought all kinds of horrible shit about those guys. And so did most of the public, it seemed. Students, staff, the surrounding community, people all across the country were outraged. But then, as the weeks and months passed, more and more people began to doubt the accuser's story as the evidence just wasn't adding up and as she changed her statement.

So what really happened and why? And what can we learn from it all? Words and ideas can change the world. I hated her, but I wanted to love my mother. I have a dream. I'll plead not guilty right now. Your only chance is to leave with us. Before we jump into the particulars of this case,

let's refresh ourselves on just how serious and common, sadly, cases of rape are in the United States. This context is important to today's narrative. It'll help us understand where a lot of the outrage around this case came from. There was a lot of outrage in part because not only is rape a despicable crime, it is one that affects almost everyone in some personal. emotional way. It's a crime that's always been underreported. It's a crime where there has been a

sad tragic history of victim blaming around it. Nearly everyone knows someone who has been raped if they haven't also been raped themselves. According to the rape abuse and incest national network, rain, over 400,000 Americans age 12 and older are sexually assaulted or raped each year. That's a staggering number. And that number includes more than 80,000 inmates, 60,000 children, and almost

19,000 members of the military. According to Rain, an American is sexually assaulted on average every 68 seconds. Additionally, one out of every six American women has been the victim of an attempted rape or completed rape in her lifetime. And nine out of ten victims of rape are female. So, do you know at least six women? If so, odds are you know at least one victim of either rape or attempted rape. One in 33 men is experienced and attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.

Have you met at least 33 men? Guessing you have, right? Obviously, men are raped, yeah, as well. Equally tragic, not nearly as common, but equally tragic. And speaking of tragic, so many victims, male and female, are children. From 2009 to 2013, child protective services substantiated or found strong evidence to indicate that 63,000 children a year were victims of sexual abuse. The majority of child victims are between the ages of 12 and 17 years old. 82% of all juvenile victims are female.

Approximately 54% of sexual assault victims are between the ages of 18 and 34. Additionally, females between the ages of 16 and 19 are four times as likely to be raped or assaulted as a member of the general population. Right. Damn. College students, some of whom are obviously part of that 16 to 19 age demographic, three times more likely than women in the general population to experience sexual violence. according to the Centers for Disease Control, sexual violence is a very serious public health problem in the U.S. and has been for a very long time. It's one that impacts lifelong health, opportunity, and well-being,

and sexual violence impacts people of all gender, sexual orientations, and ages. The perpetrator sadly, often someone the survivor knows. Millions of people are affected by sexual violence every year, but it's difficult to know the true number because so many cases go underreported. Importantly for today's story, Non-white women experienced sexual violence at a slightly higher rate than white women.

A report by the Institute for Women's Policy Research states that more than 20% of black women are raped during their lifetimes. More than 20% more than 1 in 5. Higher share, slightly higher than women overall. According to some studies at end rape oncampus.org for every black woman that reports her rape, at least 15 black women do not report. Approximately 60% of black girls experienced sexual abuse by the age of age, according to this uh some studies that is compiled on his website that's fucking crazy approximately 60 percent uh according to one 2014 study about 22 percent of black women reported being raped and

41 percent experience other forms of sexual violence black women students in various academic settings are reporting experience rape at a high rate 16.5 percent in a high school sample 36 percent in a college sample uh stats vary you know a bit from study to study to study website to website largely because of under-reporting. Out of every 1,000 sexual assault, it is thought that only about 310 are reported to the police. And typically, only 50 of those 310 reports will actually lead to an arrest. And out of those 50 arrests, there will only be a felony conviction in approximately 28 of those cases, and only 25 of those perpetrators will actually serve time.

So only 25 out of one out of every 1,000 rapists actually get punished, right, in a incarcerated way. It's crazy, right? It's believed that over two out of three sexual assaults go underreported. Why? There are many reasons. Someone may not report rape or sexual assault. According to rain, victims say they have said that they don't report sexual violence because they feared retaliation. They believe the police will not or cannot do anything.

They believed it was a personal matter. They don't want to make public. You know, they believed it was not important enough to report or they don't want to get the perpetrator in trouble. Early on in the Duke LaCross scandal, some would claim that the supposed victim lied about being assaulted, which is the standard battle cry of defense teams and rape cases, that they made it all up. But how often does that actually happen? Of all the reported rapes and sexual assaults, how many are false reports? studies suggest that false reporting occurs in only 2 to 10%

of all cases per the National Sexual Violence Resource Center. However, the center noted, quote, research shows that rates of false reporting are frequently inflated in part because of inconsistent definitions and protocols. For example, law enforcement

can label a rape claim false because there's not enough evidence to prosecute, but a more accurate term for that would be baseless. The National Sexual Violence Resource Center explains, quote, it does not mean that some form of sexual assault may not have occurred, but only that from a legal perspective, the case does not meet the legal criteria. So it might actually be less, almost certainly, is less than in 2 to 10% of cases, which to me is

logical. I mean, how many people are going to want to put their sexual history out on trial publicly, you know, deceive all their supporters, their family and their friends, have every claim they make brutally cross-examined, openly doubted in front of a room full of not just family friends, but strangers in an attempt to falsely imprison someone who didn't actually do anything. Who's going to go to court day after day, sometimes week after week, month after month, in an attempt to destroy someone's reputation when the person is innocent? Right?

Some people have done this. Some people do this. It does happen, certainly, but it is the exception to the rule by far because not that many people are willing to do something like that. And even the people who are willing aren't able to get enough evidence to lead to an arrest and a trial. because it's so rare, the FBI and International Association of Chiefs of Police tried to help protect victims, and they issued guidelines so that certain factors would not cause the report to be labeled as false. These factors included delayed reporting, insufficient evidence to prosecute a victim's decision not to cooperate with investigators and inconsistent victim's statements.

However, it's not mandatory for law enforcement to follow these guidelines. Another reason cases are perceived as false is due to a lack of witnesses, The vast majority of rapes and sexual assaults occur in situations, of course, where there are no witnesses. It's almost always a classic he said she said situation. And about that, the National Sexual Violence Resource Center is written. So if our nation continues to demand that there be witnesses, we are essentially ignoring the very nature of the crime. Okay, with that context and history established, rape is common, false reporting, very rarely actually happens. Let's now take a look at the scandal.

shocked and horrified the community in 2006, the Duke community, and then just the nation, started by getting familiar with Duke University. How their lacrosse team was perceived by the public and why, you know, factored hugely into this case as well, so this is worth it. Duke is a private institution located in Durham, North Carolina, a city of about 300,000 people. But really, Duke is in a much bigger city than that. The Raleigh-Durham metro area has a population of around a one and a half million, cities of essentially almost merged into one.

You know, kind of like how Los Angeles is technically a different city than Burbank or Irvine, but when you drive from Burbank through L.A. to Irvine, it's not like you're ever out in the country, right? It's nonstop, urban or suburban sprawl. The Duke Blue Devils men's lacrosse team is a division one team that's part of the ACC, the Atlantic Coast Conference, big deal in U.S. college sports, and Duke's men's lacrosse has been a big deal for a long time. They won the national championship in 2010, 2013, 2014, 2014. back in 2006, when this story took place, Duke was considered a strong contender for the national title before the season even started. They'd come with a single goal of winning the national championship season before in May of 2005.

At the time of the scandal, the team had a six and two record, had five games remaining in their season. And this team was, before the scandal ever happened, hated by many nonetheless, despite the success, hated by many. Why? Well, because lacrosse overall has long had a reputation for being a sport that's pretty exclusive, right, a sport that is almost exclusively for rich white kids. And a lacrosse team at an expensive college like Duke, plays considered by many to be a little uppity. You know, a lot of people had an immediate feeling of, ah, fuck those rich kids. Right, that sentiment definitely factored into this story big time. 2010 NCAA study reported that just 1.9% of Division 1 lacrosse players were.

black and fewer than 10% were non-white. And why is that? Well, according to a 2025 study called, or excuse me, I'm sorry, study cited at Sports Entrepreneur.com, about 60% of players come from households that earn over $100,000 a year because the sports annual costs often run seven times higher on average, for example, than basketball. Initial equipment can cost $600 to $1,000,000 at annual expenses, family spend an average of about $1,300 per child compared to just $185 for basketball.

Club teams often push these costs way higher with fees ranging from $2,500 to $7,000 annually, and that's before families and teams hit the road, you know, often traveling hundreds of miles from matches. Then the divide between school and club teams, that's another financial challenge. Public high schools might only charge $150 to $500 for some shared gear. College coaches tend to recruit, though, from elite clubs. that cost five to ten times as much. And many families will end up investing

anywhere from 50 to 100 grand over a player's childhood to pursue a college scholarship even though only 3.3% of high school players make it to Division I. And most who do only receive partial scholarships that cover just 26% of their costs on average. Finally, elite prep schools

big part of the recruiting path. Schools that can cost from 50,000 to 75,000, thousand dollars per student per year turning the cross into a long-term huge educational investment for some families an investment that most families can't ever dream of making and because of all that lacrosse failure or not long before this story took place you know had earned a reputation for being a sport primarily played by spoiled entitled rich kids that's the perception still is for many essentially the bad guys in almost every 80s movie involving high school kids the the dude shoving the fucking nerd into the locker,

the rich kid creep trying to date rape to cheerleader. Well, casting that character as a lacrosse player was never going to feel tonally off for most people. And that perception did not earn a lot of love for the Duke lacrosse team from the surrounding community in the wake of this scandal, not at all. Before the scandal, there were already, you know, socioeconomic tensions.

Back in 2006, Duke tuition cost $43,000 a year. Most people living in Durham, right, could not afford to send their kids there. approximately 14.2% of the city's population lived below the poverty line back then, and the federal poverty line for a single person in the 48 contiguous states in D.C. was 9,800 in 2006, while for a family of four, it was 20,000. Just a bit shy of being able to pony up that tuition. The median household income for Durham County, North Carolina in 2006 was 46,879.

So, again, most families in that area could not send their kids to Duke. and they certainly didn't have the funds to support their kids going to private schools, playing lacrosse on traveling club teams, then going to Duke to also play lacrosse. Even on Duke's campus, many of the other Duke's students saw the lacrosse team as being spoiled rich kids. Also, about half of Durham was black. And in 2006, 46 out of Duke's 47 lacrosse players were white. So big racial divide, big socioeconomic divide between the community and this team. also ESPN reported that a third of the players in the lacrosse team had been previously charged with misdemeanors in the three years leading up to the incident 15 out of 47 members had been charged with offenses such as underage alcohol possession violating open container laws loud noise and public urination right all typical drunk college kid crimes you know going to party crimes most of those charges were resolved without convictions but when the story of this scandal broke they resurfaced

right and now you get a picture of a bunch of rich white kids emerging kids getting drunk pissing all over the neighborhood you know kids waking up uh their neighbors with loud parties kids not giving a fuck how their actions affect others uh kids getting out of trouble because uh you know who their parents are kids who are entitled as fuck not saying that's true but that's the perception and because of that perception a lot of people were pretty eager to bust out their tortures and pitchforks when it came to uh coming after these guys All right, now let's move along to the date of the alleged crime. On March 13th, 2006, the Duke lacrosse team held a party at an off-campus house

where the team captain was living, and this happened during spring break. Co-captain David Evans had invited his teammates over for a barbecue, basically a kegger, right, house party, consolation house party for the team that, you know, couldn't head to Florida or Mexico for spring break and party on the beach. You know, they had to stay on campus because of their game schedule. according to former player Ryan McFadden quote We were there all day Grilling, having beers

Playing washers Beer pong just having a good time Playing some music Everyone was drinking and someone said Let's go to a strip club Then someone's idea was Let's have dancers come to the house As opposed to risking people going out and getting in trouble

We'll just order dancers come here A very common occurrence on campus Someone on the team then found the number for a business called Allure Escort Services. Co-captain, Dan Flannery, was the one who called to discuss the hourly rate, which was $400 per dancer, also discussed whether they could pick girls based on traits they preferred. He gave the fake name of Daniel Flanagan, but he used his real cell phone. In a written statement later, Flannery said he received a call back about 20 minutes later

and learned two women were coming to the party. The two dancers who came to the house were 31-year-old Kim Roberts and 27. seven-year-old Crystal Mangum. Crystal will be the one who accused the players of rape, so let's get to know a little about her. Crystal was born on July 18, 1978, born and

raised in Durham. On August 18, 1996, the year she had graduated from Hillside High School, Crystal had filed a police report, alleging that three years earlier, in 1993 she had been kidnapped, driven 16 miles to Creedmore, North Carolina, and raped.

One of the accused was her boyfriend, was 21. She was 14 when the alleged rape and kidnapping occurred. Crystal chose not to pursue prosecution. Her relatives believe she dropped the case because she feared for her life. But interestingly based on what will come out later, one relative didn't agree with this. Her dad did not believe that she had been raped. Rare take for a dad, I think. And if you think that, you know, he was a dismissive asshole or some woman hater, maybe a rapist himself, you might change your mind by the end of the this tale. You know, maybe he was a terrible guy. He might have been. I don't fucking know him. Or maybe he just knew his daughter pretty well. Crystal joined the Navy in 1996. She trained in

radio operation and navigation technology. Married Kenneth Nathaniel McNeil, 14 years, her senior. Marriage was both troubled and brief. On June 16th, 1998, Crystal reported that McNeil had threatened to kill her, but the charge was dismissed when she didn't come to court. She would end up staying less than or serving, less than two years in the Navy. and got discharged after she became pregnant by a fellow sailor. By 2002, Crystal was back in Durham and working as an exotic dancer. In that same year, she was arrested on 10 charges. After she stole a customer's taxi keys one night while giving him a lap dance,

then stole the vehicle while the customer was in the bathroom, then fled from the police in the stolen car, ended up almost running over an officer before she was stopped. Her blood alcohol level was 0.19 at the time of the incident, so, you know, wild fucking night. She went hard in the paint that night, real hard, and got in a lot of trouble. Crystal would plead guilty to assault and a government official larceny, speeding to elude arrest and driving while impaired. She spent three weekends in jail, paid $4,200 in restitution and fees, and was put on probation for two years.

And then while on that probation, Crystal suffered a nervous or mental breakdown, ended up being admitted to a psychiatric facility in Raleigh. Her parents, when interviewed, shared that they had no idea what led to her. her mental health crisis. Now, for a bit of good news about Crystal, in 2004, despite all that shit, she earned an associate's degree, two-year college degree from the Durham Technical Community College. By 2006, the year of the scandal, she was working as an exotic dancer for allure escort services, also a full-time psychology student at North Carolina Central University and doing very well.

She was in her second year at NCCU, earning the 3.0 or B average. you know, with her grades. She had a young son and a daughter, a young daughter, and it really seemed like she was doing the best to provide for them. As mentioned, Crystal is black. Kim Roberts, the second dancer,

black and Asian, and the two women arrived at the party full of white lacrosse students separately. Right? So now you have two working class black women dancing naked for the amusement of a bunch of rich white kids. Optics, you know, not amazing.

The look feeds into a lot of negative stereotypes and a lot of people's eyes, right? There's a terrible power dynamic here. Even if none of those kids were racist, even if they just found black women more attractive than white women, and that's why they wanted, you know, black dancers, which actually wasn't true. The perception for many is, again,

a lot of entitled kids objectifying, probably acting at a demeaning manner towards these women, as they will allege. This perception will feed a whole bunch of rage in the early months of this case. And now before I start discussing the night in question, Time for this week's first to two mid-show sponsor breaks. If you don't want to hear these ads,

please sign up to be a space littered on Patreon, get the catalog ad free, get these episodes early and more. Thanks for listening to those ads. Now let's return to the story to the night that changed several people's lives forever. The team captains later said that while the women were dancing, one player asked if the women had any sex toys.

With them, Kim Roberts, then jokingly asked if the player's penis was too small, I don't know, some kind of little back and forth ribbing, uh, in response, some player jokingly brandished a broomstick and suggested she used that as a sex toy and that was not well received. Fair, right? That's not fucking cool. Pretty creepy, pretty disturbing. Uh, both Crystal and Kim immediately stopped dancing when this happened and they left the living room. And this just like just a few minutes into dancing. So this thing, this night goes, uh, bad real quick. Uh, also players will later say that, you know, Crystal seemed like

she was high or drunk or both. Something weird was going on with her from the very beginning from right when she showed up. The two women locked themselves in a main floor bathroom. And at that time, two players who will be accused of rape, Reed, Seligman, and Colin Finnerty, they left the house. When the women left the bathroom, Crystal now started to roam around the yard, quote, half-dressed in shouting, according to an ESPN article. And the women told the guys essentially, right, shows over. And the show had just started. Apparently, some of the players of the party, not happy with the very short performance, right? They're paying, uh, what, $800 for the hour.

They get like five minutes. The captain who hired the strippers, Dan Flannery, convinced him to go back inside and finish. The women enter the house again, but are approached by the player who brandished the broomstick again, so now they refuse to perform again and locked themselves in the bathroom again. And now the story gets a little confusing. A lot of conflicting stories will emerge about what went on to this party,

or what went on at this party. Crystal will later claim that she and Kim came out of the bathroom around this time, then she got separated from Kim and then I guess they both started to dance again maybe Crystal will claim that this was when she was dragged into the bathroom and raped, beaten, and choked by three men for roughly half an hour In her 2002 memoir

Crystal wrote I genuinely believed I was going to die in there but I did not want to. Also wrote that she thought she was going to be performing that night for an audience of five or six people but then there were at least 20 people in the house that freaked her out that things quickly spiraled out of control and she had her dancer Kim tried to leave

but then players including David Evans the third and final player who will be tried or accused of rape excuse me coaxed her back into the house she said she then lost sight of Kim and was forced into the bathroom she explained it was difficult to remember the attackers later because quote I had all of 10 minutes to know everything

and everyone who may or may not have come in and out of the house particularly the bathroom while she claimed this happened others will claim that several people are leaving the party the people who lived in the house, including an accused player and co-captain David Evans,

said that they now asked the women to leave because it was a weird vibe. They didn't want the neighbors to call the police due to all the commotion. Women left the house. Then someone living there. Oh, and also, you know, these guys are the cross players.

They had requested a white and Hispanic, you know, dancer, not the women who showed up. The women left the house now. And then somebody living there locked the door so the women could not get back in. Backing up just a bit. Around 1 a.m. while leaving the party, Crystal Mangum said that she and Kim Roberts called the player's short-dick white boys and made a comment to one of them that, quote, he couldn't get it on his own so he had to pay for it.

And then that one player unnamed responded by calling them a racial slur. The women then left in Kim's car and Kim called 911 to report that she was called a racial slur by a white man. After all this, you know, whatever happened, the party is officially over and all the residents left the house. the police came to the house in the early morning hours, but no one answered the door. And now for some details, that most media accounts left out in their initial coverage of this story.

After leaving the party, the two dancers, Crystal and Kim, according to what Kim later told a reporter for ABC News, in an interview she gave in October, excuse me, of 2006, they got into a heated argument that led to Kim stopping her car and unsuccessfully trying to push Crystal out of the car. When she couldn't get Crystal out,

she drove her to a grocery store, went inside, told a security guard that a woman was refusing to get out of her car. Crystal, when approached by the security guard, still refused to get out, so the guard called 911. When the police arrived, they had to pull Crystal out of the car, and now they questioned her about what the fuck is going on,

and Crystal wouldn't talk to them. She seemed like she was high, drunk, having a mental health episode, some combination of those things. So she's taken to a mental health and substance abuse facility for involuntary commitment, And during her admission there, a nurse asked her if she had been raped and she said yes. Crystal was then transferred to Duke University Medical Center.

She had three small cuts on her right knee and right heel, but denied being hit. Medical staff noticed, quote, diffuse swelling of her vagina. Crystal later claimed that she had used a vibrator for part of her performance, or I'm sorry, for a performance before the party. This or a used infection could have caused that swelling. there were no other injuries listed in the report, nothing consistent with claims she would make of being choked at one point.

Also importantly, as part of a rape kit, her body and clothes are checked for any foreign DNA. This is important, as she will tell investigators numerous times in the wake of this supposed incident that her assailants had not used condoms. Also, in her initial statement about the night of the incident, the other dancer, Kim Roberts, said the possibility of rape was, quote, a crock, as in a crock of shit, right?

A lie. because she said she was never away from Crystal for more than a few minutes at any point the entire night at that party. Definitely not the 30 minutes that Crystal initially claimed she was attacked. That statement will not get much media attention. It will get zero from a lot of outlets in initial coverage. In a June 2006 interview with NPR, Kim Roberts confirmed that she did not know Crystal before that evening, said they were supposed to be paid, you know, $400 each to perform for a small party for an hour.

Kim said she wasn't certain whether or not the men requested two white dancers, but she knew at least one white girl had been requested and the second girl was expected to be Hispanic. Kim said that they likely assumed she was Hispanic based on her physical appearance and were waiting for a white dancer to arrive. When Crystal Mangum arrived, Kim said they seemed hesitant about the dancing, but then they decided to, quote, go for it. Kim said that at first she felt safe in this interview, but she confirmed that both she and Crystal were subjected to, quote,

racial stuff or lewd suggestions. Those comments will make the media rounds, which just reaffirms what a lot of people already thought about the lacrosse team, about these kids, right? Entitled white piece of shit. Racist pricks, kind of kids, or I guess I should say young men,

you know, you could imagine demeaning two black women, maybe raping one of them. Kim said that at one point during the party, she decided to leave the house. She said she ran outside, got in her car, and locked her doors. She said she didn't leave with Crystal

because she needed, excuse me, to fend for herself but then Crystal soon joined her car anyway, joined her in the car. According to her account, some of the men then came outside demanded a refund because the women had danced for less than five minutes. According to Kim, at this point,

some of the men made racist comments. Doesn't name who. Then Crystal got out of the car, went back inside to get her purse. Kim stayed in the car after an unspecified amount of time, but, you know, according to other testimony, Kim gave just a few minutes. Kim said she went back into the house,

looked for Crystal, didn't see her. Crystal claimed she had been raped during this time. When Kim returned to the car, somebody yelled that the other dancer was unconscious on the porch. She then asked the players to help get her into the car. She said the players continued making racial insults, and then Kim responded back to them mocking their manhood. And if you're hearing all of this,

do you think they're guilty? When I heard all this, I did. These guys were sounding exactly like who I thought they were when I, you know, came up with a stereotype of my mind, white southern entitled lacrosse uh you know college lacrosse players kim said she now called nine one to report that the men were calling them racial slurs then said she drove crystal to a grocery store parking lot to get help from the police there the police assumed crystal was drunk tried to revive her with smelling salts but it didn't work they put her in a police car kim left she claimed she asked

the officers many times to treat crystal with respect because she hadn't done anything wrong uh that is not, as we learned at all, what Kim will say to ABC News a few months after this interview. Adding another layer to the scandal, a sophomore player named Ryan McFadden, mentioned him earlier, left the party around midnight with some of the younger teammates. 2 a.m. he sent an email he claimed was a, quote, riff on the novel American Psycho, which was required reading in some lit courses. McFadden wrote, quote, to whom it may concern tomorrow night after tonight's show. I've decided to have some strippers over to Eden's 2C. All are welcome. However, there will be no nudity.

I plan on killing the bitches as soon as they walk in and proceeding to cut their skin off while coming in my Duke issue spandex. All in besides Arch and Tack, two of his teammates, please respond. Well, this email, what was a real dark inside joke, would become an important piece of the early criminal investigation and further paint these the cross players as dirty mother-fifference. fuckers and rapists. Meanwhile, the police, of course, learned at the home where the party took place was the residence of Duke lacrosse players. Three players talked to the police and gave voluntary DNA samples on March 16th, three days after the party.

Also, the player's attorney canceled a scheduled meeting between detectives and the rest of the team. Between March 16th and 21st, police showed Mangum photo arrays, Crystal Mangum, some photo arrays in an attempt to have her identify the attackers. Each photo array contained photographs. only of lacrosse team members, which is unusual. This, for some reason, did not follow the Durham Police Department's recommended policy of including photos of individuals, not regarded as potential suspects known as fillers.

So, you know, kind of feels like the police were like, yeah, these fucking kids, they did it. Mangum identified Seligman as someone who attended the party, but not as an attacker initially, and she did not identify Evans at all, despite seeing his photo twice at this time. on March 23rd, 46 white players, so everybody with the one black player on the team, provided the police with DNA samples and were photographed. According to player Ryan McFadden again, the players didn't think it was a big deal at this point to give their DNA because they thought everything would work out. They also stripped down to their boxers so the police could check them for scratches.

McFadden said they all had scratches and bruises from rough playing. It's a very physical sport. Again, the 47th and final player did not provide DNA because he was a team's only black player and Crystal Mangum identified her alleged rapist as being white. On March 27th, Mangum was shown another photo array containing only photos of the 46 white lacrosse team members, including members who had not been at the party. Again, no fillers included. The photos were shown to Mangum as a PowerPoint presentation with each photo projected

individually to her rather than the pictures being arrayed together. For the first time, now Mangum identified photos of Seligman Evans and Finnerty as her. her attackers. Also identified at least one other photo as being a player who was present at the party. Further investigation showed he definitely had not been at the party. Also on March 27th, two weeks after the party, Durham police officers, Mark Gottlieb and Benjamin Hyman. They were in a training class when police corporal David Addison summoned Gottlieb to step outside to see a quote, disturbing message that American, that, which was that American psycho email sent by Ryan McFadden. The officers agreed, quote, it was written in a manner that indicated the possibility of two or more people may have conspired to kill someone.

According to Gottlieb, the lead police investigator on the lacrosse case. The email had found its way to investigators through crime stoppers, a community-oriented program coordinated by Corporal Addison. The officers went to see district attorney Mark Nyfong, who authorized a search warrant for Ryan McFadden's dorm room. Important to note that Crystal Mangum had not identified McFadden. as one of her attackers. Officers executed the search warrant that evening, according to attorney Robert Extrant, Ghalib in particular, was in a rage.

The officers destroyed furniture, needlessly threw clothes, papers, cords, and books everywhere. Officer Gottlieb left before the search was over, but he made a note that, quote, inside the room were a number of hand-drawn penises on the wall with team members' nicknames, jersey numbers, and questionable racial-slash-ethnic things written on same. again furthers the you know the perspective of these guys being who a lot of people already thought they were mcfadden returned to his dorm room during the search asked to see a copy of the warrant he was shocked when he saw the charge conspiracy to commit murder next to his name following day march 28th duke suspended the entire lacrosse team for the next two games university president richard broadhead yes dick broadhead please do not snicker he's been through enough said the captains notified the athletic director

that the team did not want to play until the DNA results came back. The captains predicted the DNA testing, of course, would clear them of any and all wrongdoing. President Broadhead told the public, quote, in this painful period of uncertainty, it is clear to me as it was to the players, that it would be inappropriate to resume the normal schedule of play. Broadhead also held a meeting, excuse me,

with students where they were allowed to share their thoughts on the allegations. A student Kristen High told the news, an observer, a local paper, quote, we understand that the legal system is that you are innocent until proven guilty. But people are nervous and afraid that these people are going to get away with what they did because of a wealthy privilege or male privilege or a white privilege. The lacrosse team also issued a statement that day. The captains of the team met this morning with President Broadhead and expressed sincere regret over the lapse in judgment and having that party on March 13th, which has caused so much anguish for the Duke community and shame to our families and ourselves. We also stated unequivocally that any allegation that a sexual assault or rape occur is totally and transparently false.

The team has cooperated with the police in their investigation. We have provided authorities with DNA samples. The understanding is that the results of the DNA testing will be available sometime next week. The DNA results will demonstrate that these allegations are absolutely false. Because of the intense emotions surrounding these allegations, we feel it is in the best interest of the university, the community and our families that the team should not play competitively until the DNA results verify our unequivocal denial of these allegations. And now, all hell breaks loose.

And before I dig into Howe, time for today's second and two mid-show sponsor breaks. Thanks for listing those sponsors. Now let's check and see how all hell broke loose in the wake of the Duke Lacrosse rape allegations. According to Casey Johnson, a professor of history at Brooklyn College in the Graduate Center of the City, University of New York, who wrote a blog on this case called Durham and Wonderland, and also co-wrote a book on the case with Stuart Taylor called, Until Proven Innocent, Political Correctness and the shameful injustices of the Duke LaCross rape case, quote, We saw a sort of mob mentality take over the activist wing of Duke University faculty,

which culminated in an April 6th statement signed by 88 Duke faculty members called the group of 88, in which, before any charges had even been filed, these 88 faculty members took out an ad, a full-page ad in the Duke Campus newspaper. They unequivocally asserted that something had happened to Crystal Mangum. They said that they would continue with their activism, regardless of what the court decided, or what the police said. And they thanked public protesters for not waiting and for making themselves hurt. And the highest-profile public protests that had occurred at that point had been a march

in front of the lacrosse captain's house, in which protesters had carried large size signs urging the castration of the lacrosse captains. This was the complete abandonment of any pretense of objectivity of any interest in the truth. That's fucking wild. That's fucking witch hunt shit. That is truly political correctness run amok, right? That is faculty, campus faculty, you know, professors relying 100% on emotion, zero percent on logic, hearts probably in the right place, brain.

know where to be found. None of those faculty members had a fucking clue what actually happened and yet they 100% endorse supporting the presumption that these cross kids were rapists

and were cool with protesters putting like, let's fucking castrate these motherfuckers on signs in front of their house one of their houses. Backing up a few days supporting what Professor Johnson said

and yes, we have Dick Broadhead and a professor Johnson this episode. So what? On March 29th, over 500 students, faculty administrators in Durham residents.

marched across campus. The protest was called Take Back the Night, was part of a pre-planned sexual assault prevention week on campus. You know, cool. What's not cool is that the protesters distributed printed names and pictures of the Duke Lacrosse players, you know, not even just the ones that were accused. They haven't even been charged yet. During speeches and poetry reading, some people defaced their photos. The scandal raised existing, you know, racial tensions on campus, heightened antagonism between affluent students and the residents of the city of Durham. District Attorney Mike Nyfong said at the time, quote, The circumstances of the rape indicated a deep racial motivation

for some of the things that were done. It makes a crime that is by its nature, one of the most offensive and invasive, even more so. So he's fanning the flames. And he doesn't know what's going on. Then player Ryan McFadden's email is made public. Uh-oh, on April 5th, when a judge unsealed the warrant that authorized the search of his dorm room,

university officials see and read this email. They're not happy. right, they're outraged, and it quickly goes viral online. McFadden was put on interim suspension, and I imagine fucking hid, did not go out much for a while, laid pretty low. At 4.30 p.m., the same day, President Broadhead held a press conference to announce the forced resignation of men's lacrosse coach Mike Presler now and the end of Duke's lacrosse season, also publicly announced that McFadden was suspended from Duke officially.

McFadden told Vanity Fair in 2014, quote, April 4th, 5th, 2006, I wanted to get that tattooed on my body because that moment has changed my life forever. I think about it every day. I got Coach Presler fired. I'm responsible for my teammates, having the season canceled. I take responsibility over a year, over two years. I've told Coach Presler, he said, it's not your fault. I still get teary thinking about it right now. There was a major turn of events on April 10, 2006, when defense attorneys revealed that none of the player's DNA was found on Crystal Mangum's body. However, District Attorney Mike Nifong promised to continue investigating the case.

Important to note, very important, that Nifong was running for D.A. when the allegations were first made, he was accused of pursuing the case aggressively to win favor with the black community in Durham for pursuing votes as opposed to justice. On April 17th, despite early problems with identifying her attackers in photo lineups, despite no DNA evidence connecting them to alleged crime, lacrosse players Colin Finnerty, Reed, Seligman, are charged with rape,

first degree sexual offense, and kidnapping. On May 12th, the player's defense attorneys announced that a second round of testing found zero DNA evidence on Crystal Mangum's body

or on her clothing. May 15th, team captain David Evans also now indicted on charges of rape, first degree sexual offense and kidnappings. Now we have our three accused.

Then Duke put Finnerty and Seligman two players who had not graduated yet on interim suspension. which is part of routine protocol for American universities when students are charged with violent felonies. Duke will later modify their status to administrative leave. As mentioned earlier, dancer Kim Roberts

gives an interview with NPR in June of 2006. In her initial police statement, she said she did not believe Crystal Mangum had been raped, but now changed her statement during this interview. She told NPR, quote, okay, first of all, one of the things that I learned was the fact that she was 27. I found out that she knew how to drink,

you know what I mean so it made me wonder as to why in the world she was so out of it you know and also I didn't even want to imagine that something like that could happen to her and I'm 20 feet away i can never say that a rape did or did not occur that's for the courts to decide I didn't see it happen you know but what I can say is that there was opportunity and that it could have happened you have to entertain the fact that it's possible it didn't but it's possible it did NPR did make sure to note that Kim had been convicted of embezzling $25,000 from an employer and was on probation for that crime during the publication of this interview. So, you know, her credibility is now questioned.

In late December of 2006, Crystal Mangum alters some key details of her official story. And in response, DA Mike Nyfong drops the rape charges against the three players on December 22nd, but they still face kidnapping and sexual offense charges. Now some of the faculty of Duke University realize maybe they fucked up in their initial assumption of guilt. And new outrage is directed at the prosecution. Duke president, Richard Broadhead, called on Nifong to recuse himself from the case saying Mr. Nyfong has an obligation to explain to all of us his conduct in this matter. Nifong had been blatantly lying to the press about the case for months,

saying things like the rape kit fully supported Crystal's allegations when it did not, that her allegations were consistent, which they most certainly were not. She failed to identify the same three men during a second photo lineup, for example. Numerous written accounts regarding the evening question, wildly contradicted one another and on and on.

Nyfong's, and I said, sorry, second photo, an additional photo lineup. Pass the second one. Nyfong's ex-staff member, Jackie Brown, will later tell the news outlet the Daily Beast that by this time she realized the whole case was alive. She recalled, quote, I said to him,

any idea what you're doing? And he said, yeah, but it's worth a million bucks in advertisements. Right? That motherfucker did not care that these kids were innocent. It was just good for his political career to have them be guilty. At this point, the media shifts its focus away from the lacrosse players to the DA's office and the integrity of the criminal investigation. And now Mike Nyfong, not the Duke lacrosse players, becomes the main villain in the story. On December 28th, the North Carolina State Bar Association files a prosecutorial misconduct. complaint against Nyphon. Weeks later, in January of 2007,

Nyphon asked North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper to take over the case form. The Duke's men's lacrosse team returned to the field in February of 2007 and now in a massive show of support most of Duke's senior leadership, including, I'm guessing, a number of those 88

faculty members who had quickly joined in on the witch hunt against a team and also the president of the university, old broad dick, attended the game as well as thousands of students cheering for them and the largest group of reporters to ever attend a regular season lacrosse game. Duke will win their league championship this season

and will go to the national championship again, but won't win the final game again. Meanwhile, the investigation reached its resolution on April 11, 2007, when Attorney General Roy Cooper held a press conference and announced, quote, we believe that these three individuals are innocent of these charges. The case has dropped and there will never be a trial. Attorney General Cooper told the public, we believe that these cases were the result of a tragic,

rush to accuse and a failure to verify serious allegations, we have no credible evidence that an attack occurred. Cooper mentioned that he considered, but ultimately decided not to bring charges against Crystal Mangum. Crystal, meanwhile, continued to insist that she was raped. According to Cooper, his investigators, told him that she, quote, may actually believe the many different stories that she has been telling. So, you know, she's dealing with some mental health stuff. his decision not to charge her was based on a review of sealed files and included records of her mental health history. Apparently, he was quite a bit lengthier than what I laid out earlier. That just wasn't public knowledge.

On D.I. Nifong, he said, in this case, with the weight of the state behind him, the Durham District Attorney pushed forward unchecked. There were many points in the case where caution would have served justice better than bravado. And in the rush to condemn a community and a state lost the ability to see clearly. at another press conference accused player reed seligman said this entire experience has opened my eyes up to a tragic world of injustice i never knew existed if police officers and a district attorney can systematically railroad us with absolutely no evidence whatsoever i can't imagine what they do to people who do not have the resources to defend themselves so rather than relying on disparaging stereotypes and creating political and racial conflicts all of us need to take a step back from this case and learn from it the duke lacrosse case has shown that our society has lost sight of the most fundamental principle of our legal system, the presumption of innocence. Very well written. In response to the scandal, President Richard Broadhead formed a council of advisors and four committees to examine the lacrosse team, Duke's administration's response to this incident, the student judicial process

in general, and even Duke culture overall. In June of 2007, the North Carolina State Bar disciplinary panel concluded that Mike Nyfong had fucked up big time, that he had made inflammatory and prejudicial comments intentionally withheld DNA evidence and just straight up lied to court officials. All so that asshole could win an election, right, and keep things going. The panel called for his immediate disbarment, and they got it, and he will resign. That same month, right, fuck that guy. Same month, Duke announced an undisclosed settlement with all, with the three players.

William D. Cohen, a former investigative reporter for the Raleigh Times, claimed in his 2014 book about all this, The Price of Silence, the Duke LaCross scandal, the power of the elite, and the corruption of our great universities, that the three accused lacrosse players, call infinity, Reed Seligman and David Evans, were each paid $20 million. Damn. Other sources say the total was closer to $6 million each, right?

Still a lot of money. The university statement accompanying these settlement said, these young men and their families have been the subject of intense scrutiny that has taken a heavy toll. It is in the best interest of the Duke community to eliminate the possibility of future litigation and move forward. The three players issued a statement in response. It said, We hope that today's resolution will begin to bring the Duke family back together again, and we look forward to working with the university to develop and implement initiatives that will prevent similar injustices and ensure that the lessons of the last year are never forgotten.

former coach Mike Presler, the dude who was fired over fucking nothing, didn't do shit, also settled with the university for an undisclosed amount. I hope he got a lot. February 21st, 2008, over three dozen current and former other lacrosse players filed a lawsuit against Duke University, the city of Durham, and others, claiming they suffered emotional distress during the lacrosse team scandal, which I'm sure they did. The lawsuit accused Duke in the city of Durham a fraud, abuse, and breach of duty. The lawsuit stated that the university implied that the law.

the cross team was guilty when their season was canceled. The suit accused Duke of ignoring, suppressing, and discrediting evidence that proved the players were innocent and idly standing by while players suffered abuse and harassment on campus. The suit was later settled for an undisclosed sum. Right? I hope they got a lot, too. The lawsuit alleged that Nye Fong and his investigators hid in fabricated evidence and argued the city should be held accountable for his actions. Nifong eventually filed bankruptcy because he personally ended up facing $180 million worth of lawsuits over all this. Ooh, good.

In August of 2008, the accuser, Crystal Mangum, announced the publication of her memoir. The last dance for grace, the Crystal Mangum story. Huh. Crystal said you plan to donate $1 from each sale to an organization that supports battered women, not sure if she did. News release described how the media portrayed Crystal as a gold-digging hooker, searching for a big payday or as an unstable, troubled young woman. Her book was released October 23, 2008.

And Crystal wrote, Something did happen to me. On one passage of the book reads, Being in the public eye and under so much scrutiny has been difficult. Even as I try to move on with my life, I still find it necessary to take one more stand and fight. I want to assert without equivocation that I was assaulted. Make of that what you will.

You will decide what that means to you because the state of North Carolina saw fit not to look at all that happened the night I became infamous. Hmm. Former player David Evans attorney said that the three players she accused of rape asked that authorities not pursue charges against Crystal because they felt sorry for her and felt that she had become a victim too. So what happened to the three players who had been accused of rape? Right? After all this, you know, in the coming years, uh, Reed Seleigman transferred to Brown University, wanted to continue playing the cross, but was unsure how that was possible because of the ongoing case. However, Brown's head coach, Lars Tiffany, saved him a roster, spot. until he was officially cleared, and then he would play.

He enrolled in the fall of 2008. Seleigman got involved with the Innocence Project while at Brown, a nonprofit that I like very much that we've donated to in the past. He learned about the nonprofit when the players were invited to a benefit for recently freed people who were wrongfully incarcerated. He told his lacrosse team about the Innocence Project and they raised over $20,000 for the organization in 2008. Seeligman received the IMLCA Boston Market Humanitarian Award.

which recognizes student athletes for their strategies and efforts and addressing community needs with campus-based efforts. Cielgman said, per ESPN, I'd never compare myself to the exonerates, but they've taught me that you don't have time to be bitter about what's happened to you. You need to look back on your experiences and try to enact positive change.

Seligman did not escape negative press in the years following the cross incident. 2011 is reported that he owed the IRS over $6 million in income taxes from 2007. His attorney said this is just a monstrous and terribly destructive mistake. I don't know how it occurred, but we'll get to the bottom of it. So maybe he did get $20 million in the settlement. He graduated from law school from Emory University in 2013 and works today as a partner

at the prestigious international law firm of Alston and Bird out of their Manhattan office. According to his current resume, Reed Silligman, or Silligman, sorry, I'm having some problems with my sinuses today. Makes pronunciation even more difficult. he focuses his practice on complex business disputes and government investigations, and he maintains an active pro bono practice in his co-counsel with the Georgia Innocence Project, represented an incarcerated client in connection with his petition for a writ of habeas corpus. Colin Finnerty left Duke in the spring of 2006, spent the next year living at home with his parents transferred to Loyola University in 2008.

Finnerty said about Loyola, They welcomed me with open arms, despite the fact that the case was still going on. During his year off, he volunteered at the charity Tuesday's children, which supports the families of people affected by terrorism, military conflict, or mass violence, and the Boomer-Easic Foundation, a nonprofit that raises awareness of cystic fibrosis, also helped coach a high school across him. Colin is now a director on the blockchain, or, yeah, director on the blockchain and fintech investment banking team at MJC partners. Prior to that, he served as a vice president within the blockchain and cryptocurrency

investment banking group at BTIG. So he's doing just fine. David Evans finally works at Apex Partners, a private equity and venture capital firm. According to his company bio, he focuses on growth equity and buyout investments in high growth internet, enterprise software, and technology-enabled services companies works out of their New York office. So they're all doing pretty well. Now, Ryan McFadden, the dude who sent a threatening email hours after the house party,

the reference to American Psycho, was later reinstated and would graduate from Duke in 2008 and would then get a master's degree from Duke in 2010. After that, though, had a hard time getting a job because employers could and did

read the email he wrote with a simple Google search. He would later change his name to John to try and put some distance between him and his past. He said about the email in an interview with Vanity Fair in 2014, it was locker room talk.

It was digital locker room talk, you know. That email was just one of a lot I'd sent that year. I thought of myself as a funnier kid on the team. I made a lot of jokes, and I definitely still do that with some email chains. Obviously, now I second-guess everything. I was making a joke, and I happened to make a dark joke referencing a movie about a serial killer who kills strippers and homeless people and prostitutes, and that tied in perfectly to the storyline of the mostly white team raping a poor black girl from Durham.

So, you know, made a bad joke. Too soon. Way too soon. Not sure where he is now. after that Vanity Fair interview, the digital trail about his life seems to grow pretty cold. Maybe change his name again. Former disgraced district attorney Mike Nyfong disappeared from the public eye after being disbarred. In the year since the scandal, Crystal Mangum has not done well. Not at all.

In 2010, Crystal was arrested for starting a fire that almost burned down her house while her two kids were inside. She admitted she got into a confrontation with her boyfriend, burned his clothes, smashed his car windshield, and threatened to stab him with a knife. According to an ESPN interview from April of 2011, Crystal's friend said she never recovered from the stigma of the lacrosse scandal and got into questionable relationships to try and provide stability for her kids. On December 17, 2010, she was convicted of misdemeanor charges of contributing to the delinquency of a juvenile, injury to personal property, and resisting a public officer.

The jury deadlocked on the arson charge. A few months later, in 2011, now 32-year-old Crystal began to date 46, year old Reginald Day, a painter from the Durham area. She had three children now from two previous relationships, trying to earn her master's degree. She's living with her aunt, and her aunt had hired Reggie as a handyman. The two made a connection. Reggie invited Crystal to move in with him to split the bills. The living arrangement developed into a romantic relationship, but did not last long and ended very badly. On April 3rd, 2011, Reggie showed up at his nephew Carlos Wilson's house seeking some help. He'd been stabbed and was bleeding heavily.

And his 911 call, Carlos said, it's Crystal Mangum. The Crystal Mangum. I told him she was troubled from the damn beginning. The police search ready's home after the attack. Carlos claimed it looked like the Tasmanian devil had passed through it. The TV, tables, furniture, dishes, and more had been destroyed. There's blood on the hall and on the couch, on the bathroom door. The door had been ripped from its hinges as well. There was so much blood investigators actually wondered if there was a second victim initially.

Crystal was nowhere to be found until her son called 911 to report that his mom had stabbed somebody in self-defense. Crystal was then found in the neighbor's apartment. She was, quote, distraught and upset, had a cut on her hand and a bruised lip. An officer reported that she appeared to be the victim of assault. She initially refused to tell officers what had happened and was arrested for assault with a deadly weapon, inflicting serious injury. Reggie gave a statement once he was out of surgery.

He said, Crystal was flirt with another man, which caused a heated argument. He did admit to hitting her and kicking down the bathroom door when she hit from him. He claimed he tried to de-escalate things, but then Crystal stabbed him with a kitchen knife when he turned his back to her. Although it seemed like Reggie was on the road to recovery for a little while, he will die from complications related to the stabbing on April 13th, and Crystal is charged with first-degree murder. In her own statement, Crystal said she and Reggie were at a party. She spoke to a police officer she knew at that party, and he became enraged. He cursed at her, hit her, choked her, then kicked on the bathroom door when she tried to hide and dragged her out by her hair.

She admitted that at the end of the fight, Reggie relented, but that he then grabbed a knife, she said, tried to choke her so she stabbed him and then ran away. The judge barred any information about the lacrosse scandal from her 2013 trial. Prosecutors portrayed Crystal as a woman who, quote, was going to snap at any time. her ex will testify about the 2010 incident or she threatened him with a knife and had set his belongings on fire Crystal got on the stand told the jury that Reggie was beating her so she grabbed a knife and quote

poked him in the side she testified quote he straddled me hit me then he started choking me I couldn't breathe my head hurt real bad I was just trying to survive and I felt like Reginald was trying to kill me well on November 22nd 2013 the jury will reveal that they did not believe her claims of self-reveller defense. She found guilty of second degree murder and sentenced to a minimum of 14 years in prison.

And then, and this is very big, just a little over a year ago, in December of 2024, Crystal admitted to lying about the player she accused to rape. And she asked for David Evans, Colin Finnerty, and Reed Seligman's forgiveness during a prison interview from a YouTube show called Let's Talk with Cat. She said, quote, I testified falsely against them by saying that they raped me when they didn't. And that was wrong. And I betrayed the trust of a lot of other people

who believed in me. I made up a story that wasn't true because I wanted validation from people and not from God. Her interviewer, Kat De Pesquale, said that when she initially

contacted Mangum, she was not aware that Mangum wanted to apologize. However, Mangum expressed her desire to apologize to the players in her response

to De Pasquale's request for an interview. It's been on my heart to do a public apology concerning the Duke lacrosse team, Mangum wrote to Pusquali

in a De Pascuali in a letter. I actually lied about the incident to the public, she wrote, my family, my friends, and to God about it, and I'm not proud about it. When we met and we were about to begin the interview, she made it clear that all she wanted to do was apologize, De Pesquale said.

It felt like this apology was something she needed to get off her chest. In the interview, Mangum repeatedly mentioned her relationship with God while in prison invoking her faith and her call for forgiveness. She said, I hope that the players can heal and trust God and know that God loves them and that God is loving. them through me, letting them know that they're valuable. Excuse me. Manga referred to the three accused lacrosse players as her brothers,

saying they did not deserve the accusations. Wow, huh? Did you know that those guys were innocent? I did not until I look back at this case. I got worked out about this case when it first broke, right? Assume they were guilty. I guess just kind of moved down with my life, never really checked back in to read about how they were innocent, like definitely innocent.

Two of the accused had already left the party, by the time Crystal initially said the attack occurred. Were these guys assholes towards the two exotic dancers at the party? I mean, maybe, but maybe not. There were a lot of guys there that night. Who knows what those three guys said? Not fair to assume that, you know, one of them might have been the guy who hurled a racial slur if that even happened.

And it was never fair to assume that they raped Crystal Mangum. Were they entitled? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know him. Never met him? Guessing you don't know them either. And all the people who rushed to declare them, guilty, like those 88 Duke faculty members, right? Shame on them. Shame on me. Shame on a lot of us. I wanted to share this case not just because I found it interesting, but because I found it relevant.

So many of us in the social media age were so quick to rush to judgment about so many things. In this case illustrates why it is so important to try and wait until you get the facts, despite what the case might look like until you pass judgment, right? Due process is very important. if you care about justice. Also, so is not falsely accusing somebody of sexual assault. It is already so, so hard for victims to come forward. They already face such an uphill battle. They already have people doubt them.

And with every high-profile case like this one, the battle gets harder. So don't jump to conclusions. Don't assume guilt with no evidence. Also, don't assume an accuser is lying. You can actually live in the middle, right? You cannot assume the accuser is guilty and also not assume the accuser is lying. you can be neutral, you can wait. And I don't know, maybe we shouldn't assume

that all lacrosse players are entitled fuckheads. Check out Pat Spencer, backup point guard for the Golden State Warriors NBA team, one of the best college lacrosse players of all time and seems to be a really good guy. I love watching him play. Play's humble and hard. Plays for the most socially conscious coach

and professional sports, in my opinion. And that dude, Steve, Coach Kerr, seems to love him. And finally, if you know the reference, Pat is that motherfucker. And that's it for this edition. of Time Suck Short Sucks. If you enjoyed this story, check out the rest of the Bad Magic

Productions catalog. Episodes of Time Suck every Monday at noon Pacific time. New episodes of the paranormal podcast Scared to Death, Tuesdays at midnight. Two episodes of Nightmare fuels from fictional horror I write thrown into the mix each month.

Thank you to Olivia Lee for her initial research on this episode. And Logan Keith, polishing up the sound. Please go to bad magic productions.com for all your bad magic needs and have yourself a great weekend. at Magic Productions.