Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - #173: The Curious Case Of Nick Pope

Episode Date: March 12, 2019

Thank you for tuning in for another episode of Tin Foil Hat with Sam Tripoli. This episode we welcome former MI6 and UFO "Expert" Nick Pope and it's a weirdest episodes ever. To be honest, I have no clue what happen in this show. Enjoy it! Please check out our sponsor. Absolute Xtracts: ABX.org' AbsoluteXtracts is the leader in full-spectrum cannabis oil, available in a variety of convenient applications to fit your personalized lifestyle needs. No matter where the adventure leads you, ABX cartridges, gel caps, drops, or beverage lines got you covered. BETDSI.con promocode HAT100 CavemanCoffee.com Promocode TinFoilHat

Global controls will have to be imposed and a world governing body will be created to enforce them. Welcome to the tinfoil hat. We go deep home boy. Aaron, open your mind. Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. That's some interdimensional shit.

Wake up, Aaron. This is only the beginning. You just blew my mind. Tim Foil Hat. Yeah. And welcome to another episode, Tim Foil Hat, you know who I am, you know what I'm here to do. Join me as always, XG and the place to be.

How are you, brother? I'm doing good, good, good. Things are great, man, we just got back from a very successful Washington trip. Man, it was one of the best weekends ever doing stand up. I saw a love. A lot of love, dude. I was th, it was th, it was th, it was th, it was th, it was th, it was th, it was th, I was th, I was th, I was th, I was th, I was th, I was th, I was th, I was th, I was th, I was th. thi. thi, I was th. thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to thi. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to guys had these tinfoil hats it was fun it looked like a lot of fun love dude I'm so blessed was it cold oh no wasn't that bad no I just don't know how I mean it's cold I got a question for you is New Jersey cold yeah yeah I got I got something for you okay all right this gonna be fun thu why why he's doing that guys what is this oh my god th I I I I I I I I I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th I th is th is that that that th is th is th. that that that that thi thi tho tho th. that's th. th. th. that's that's th. that's that's that's that's that's that's th. that's that's that's th. that's that's that's th. that's th. th. that's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi th. thi thi that is thi that is that's thi that's the the the the the thee the thee theee the thee the the the the the thi that guys, what is this? Oh my God dude, that is so

nice. What do you think man? Thank you dude. That is so nice. You're G, dude, I appreciate you. That's very nice you, XG. It's cold out there. I was like he's got to wear something dope. Like she got me a tinfoil hat. It's like a Raiders jacket basically. Jacket dude, that's great. You're wonderful dude, I appreciate you. So the shows are great. We got a lot of great shows coming up go put on the um what do we got this week? We got this weekend. We're at comedy chaos is tomorrow night. Then we have we're in New Jersey. We're at the Tiffs Comedy Club. Fock yeah. Right. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. the. the. their. their. their. their. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. You're th. You're th. You're th. You're th. You're th. You're th. You're th. You're th. You're th. You're th. You're th. You're th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. a we're in New Jersey we're at the TIFs Comedy Club right we first shows pretty much sold out second shows tickets are moving quickly myself xg it's gonna be a great time come out and rock I have to figure

out what t-shirt to bring out there what tee shirt do you think we should bring bring them that one fuck it all all right we'll do it I'll have let them tell us um so so the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th I to to to to to to to to tm to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to tm I I tm I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I tc I'm tc I tc I tc I'm tc. tb tb tc. tb tbe. tbe. tbe. tbe. tbe. tbe. tbe. tbe. tb tb just just. tb it I'll have them bring some let them tell us so there's that that at the end of the month we are going to Arizona that's right Tim Fall Hat in Arizona we are on the 28th we are at the 28th or 29th what's it the 28th the 28th we are at the house of comedy in, that's a Friday 730 show. And then it's not on there, but Tucson, we are doing the following night, which is, no, so Thursday is the Phoenix show, and Friday is the, the Touli show, and Toulson show. So, boom, great stuff going on.

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I love cups, I love thermostats. To the, I was at, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, today, I was at the show and I was asking a guy if you got a cool Christmas gift. He goes, yeah, I go, a thermostat, that's what we get for Christmas. Thermostats, socks, ties, what did you get Aaron? All right, that went well. So that's the business. Boom, get in, get out. Very excited to have our guest here today.

I'm very excited. He's a big get and we're super excited. You can come by the show. He is one of the top UFO researchers in the world. He is a former British intelligence, was in charge of investigating UFOs and all that stuff. I'm so excited to have him on. He's going to blow our minds today. Please welcome Nick Pope everybody.

How are you, Nick? Fine, thank you very much. It's great to be on the show. For some of our fans that don't know you, some of our listeners, can you tell them a little bit about yourself? government for 21 years at the Ministry of Defense, which is our British equivalent of your Department of Defense here. I was a civilian employee. I did, I guess, in that 21-year career about seven or eight different jobs. And I'm best known for one I did in the 90s, where, as you say, I ran the British government's UFO project. My job was to research

and investigate the phenomenon, to see if there was anything of any potential defense interest to the nation. And it was absolutely fascinating, as you can imagine. Yeah, I mean, well, let's start off by saying that UFO does not necessarily mean alien, correct? It means basically unidentified flying objects. So that could be a lot of different things. How did you get in that department? How did they just move you to researching that? You basically were the X-files of the British government, huh? Yes, they just posted

me into that job. Every three or four years you get moved around by the personnel department, and I just happened to be due for a move at exactly the time the UFO job became available and someone said to me, would you like to do this job and I said why not? But you're absolutely right, as you say, UFO does not mean, it does not mean alien spacecraft. It is simply that, unfortunately, the pop culture baggage of the term has resulted in that misperception. Most of what we were doing turned out after investigation to be aircraft lights, weather

balloons, satellites, meteors, but we never said never and obviously if there's something unidentified in British airspace, we needed to know you know who, what, when, why, where. Wow, what an interesting job to go into, man. Did you go in there thinking there was aliens or skeptic or how did you go in there thinking? That's such an interesting department just to be thrown into. Yes, I mean, I really had no idea what I was getting myself into. I had no interest in the subject in, the subject, the subject, the subject, the subject, the subject, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th,own into? Yes, I mean I really had no idea what I was getting myself into. I had no interest in the subject. I had no particularly

strong beliefs either way and I think looking back that was absolutely the best way to go into that job because I didn't go in with any preconceived belief system whether it was true believer or die-hard debunker. I just went in and said, look, I don't know what I am going to find. I'm going to investigate each and every case to the best of my ability and go where the data took me. And that's exactly what I did. So, would you remember what your first case was?

Actually, I don't. But I'm pretty sure that statistically, it probably turned out to have a conventional explanation because nine out of ten times, that's exactly what we found. So I really can't looking back. In a sense, you know, when you start that job, every case looks different. After the three or four years that I spent there, they all kind of looked the same. And now looking back, no, it's a strange thing. I simply can't remember what my first case was.

Now, doing this job, did it change your view on anything? Did you learn that, hey man, something's going on? Did you learn that nothing's going on? What did you get from that job? And obviously you got enough from it because it led you into this incredible career you've had so far talking about this stuff? I know you traveled the world talking about this job. What'd you learn on this job? Well, I guess that the thing thing that surprised me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me that that that that that that the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. their their their their their their the. their. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. their, their, their, their, their, their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the. the. the. the. the. te. te. te. toda. teate. today, te. today, today, te. today, today, today, today, guess that the thing that surprised me was that although obviously there are some fairly kind of colorful characters in this field, and as I said at the outset, most of the cases turn out to have these mundane explanations, but what surprised me was that going back decades, both in the UK and in the US, there were some better and more convincing cases.

And I'm talking about the sorts of things where the witnesses were maybe pilots or military personnel, and cases where UFOs were tracked on military radar, performing speeds and maneuvers that we couldn't match. And cases where we got hold of fairly good quality photographs or videos that even our own intelligence community imagery analysts weren't able to find a conventional explanation for.

They weren't hoaxes, they weren't misidentifications. What were they? We don't know. What I didn't do, though, is I didn't get sucked into this kind of true believer mindset where, wherever it they were, where where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, where, their their their their, their, their, th their, their their, th th th th th th th th their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their, their their their their their their, their their, their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their, their their, the, the, thea, thea, theaugh, the, the, the, the, the, the. the, their, their, their, know. What I didn't do, though, is I didn't get sucked into this kind of true believer mindset where everyone kind of figures we've got crashed spaceships and dead aliens hidden away in Air Force hangars somewhere. If that is a real thing, and I'm not sure it is, but I'm afraid they didn't tell me it certainly doesn't seem to be the situation in the UK. And I'm not sure that it's the situation the situation the situation the situation the situation the situation the situation the situation th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi s thi's thi's thi's thi's thi thi thi thi thi the theat theat true true theat the. the. thue thue thue the. the. the. thi. thi. thrue. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the, the, the, the the, the the, the the, the the, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, true, tell me it certainly doesn't seem to be the situation in the UK and I'm not sure that it's the situation in the US either. I think that the real kind of

dirty secret about UFOs might be that contrary to what people think or a lot of people think, the government doesn't know the answers here. We don't have one of these things hidden away. The dirty secret is that even government doesn't really have a handle on what's going on. There's something in our airspace. Like I say, we chased them in jets from time to time, we track them on radar, but we don't really know what it is. So when, when, you know, that whole, that whole, that whole, that whole, that whole, that whole, that whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, is, their, thi, thi. – thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi.e. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi., you know, that whole New York Times article came out, what was your thought?

That was a big moment in the UFO industry. What's your, what was your whole take on that? Well, I was very pleased that that story did come out. I had not been, I mean, I left the, the Ministry Defense in 2006 and never worked for for the US government in any capacity. So I did not have any insight knowledge about this program, but it didn't surprise me that there was a program. And it's in a way, it staggers me how little comeback there's been over this.

Because if you remember, for years, the U.S. government, successive administration said, no, no, we had a program called Project Blue Book, we closed it down in 1969, but we are no longer interested in this and no one's investigating. And then the New York Times turned around and blew this story wide open. The post published it too, andico and suddenly it was major mainstream news media coverage. Despite all these denials, yeah, there was a program after all. So it didn't surprise me. I was glad to see it out there. I'm surprised how little kind of fallout there has been over the fact that for years they were

basically pushing a line on this which was not true. But this story, you know, it's still unfolding. I know from various sources that there is congressional interest in this. The Senate Armed Services Committee has interviewed some of those, remember those videos that we all saw of Navy jetsets chasing the U.S. Yeah, so, so, Nick, do you not believe in any of this? I'm starting to think that you don't believe in any kind of advanced technology, that, you know, area, area 51, is that what's it? Area 51, yeah. 501. All that stuff, you don't believe in any of that? That, that? Right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, that, you know, area, what's it, 51? Is that what's going?

Area 51, yeah. Area 51, all that stuff. You don't believe in any of that? Oh, I mean, I believe that there is advanced technology, but the real question is, is it ours? Is it, in other words, is it part of, say, the US government's secret prototype aircraft, drones, missiles, kind of next generation things that are kept so secret and so compartmentalized that even other parts of government don't know the full story, or which would be even more worrying, is it something Russian or

Chinese or Iranian or North Korean that's that's probing our air defenses to see how how sophisticated and good our air defense network is in terms of radar coverage or is it something else and I don't have I'm you know I'm not one of these people that that talks about this and says I've got all the answers to this and I'm very wary in these people that talks about this and says, I've got all the answers to this, and I'm very wary in this field. I hear it's one of the great ironies. People who do this as an interest and a hobby, they're often far more certain about this

than those of us who've looked at this from within government. And those of us who have looked at it from government, we, and, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, I, I, thi, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, tho, tho, I'm, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm tho, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I thi, I thi, I I thi, I I I I I I I I thi, I I I, I I, I I, I I, I, I, I, I, I, I thi, I, I, I thi, I, I thi, I thi, I thi, I'm thi, I'm thi, I'm thin, thin, tho, tho, tho, tho, thoan, thoan, thoan, thoan, thoan, thooan, thooo, thi, thi it from within government, we're not afraid to say we don't know and I don't know. Do you think the government would say if they did know? Yeah, probably not. Yeah. Probably not. You know, it's kind of hardwired into us, the default position is say nothing and if you have to say something, say as little as possible. So yeah, I probably wouldn't say. So these, you know, we always see, like in Phoenix there was that big thing where there

were those lights in the sky. Did you ever run across anything kind of crazy where you couldn't explain it? Oh absolutely. I started by saying that most of these sightings had conventional explanations, but please don't think I'm trying to debunk the whole thing. Okay, okay. I wasn't you. No.

Never, I never, never throw out the baby with the bath water. We had, I mean, over the years, the British government looked at about 12,000 cases.. th. th. th.. th. th. th. th. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to th. to to say, to say, to say, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I the bathwater. We had, I mean over the years, the British government looked at about 12,000 different cases and over the years a sizable proportion of these. Look, even if it's only, you know, 2, 3, 4, 5 percent, but it all adds up. So we have in our case files hundreds of cases which were much more difficult to explain. And those, yeah, absolutely. I never say never with this sort of thing. So I'm not saying there's no such thing as aliens.

I think chances are there are extraterrestrials out there in the universe. And in terms of whether we've ever been visited, one of my favorite phrases about all of this is that the skeptics have to be right every day, but the believers only need to be right one single time and we are in absolute game-changing paradigm-busting territory. Yeah, it's a crazy time, right? If you look at the advance in technology, some people think that comes from reverse technology, reverse engineering, do you have any thoughts on that? Like a lot of such as like, who invented the microwave?

How did the microwave come out of nowhere? Everyone's like, dude, that just came out of nowhere. And all of a sudden, boom, like, reverse technology, reverse engineering? Any thoughts on that? Sure. I mean, I know that it's obviously one of the great central beliefs of a lot of people in the UFO community that an alien spaceship crashed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947 and that slowly but surely the intelligence community, the military kind of figured out bits and pieces of this and drip fed some of that tech out into the kind of private sector with US corporations. I'm not convinced about that. I mean, I think we kind of do a

disservice to human ingenuity and to the scientists, to the engineers to say like, oh, well, that came from aliens. I think we're pretty smart and we can figure things out and we can build things. But I don't rule any of these more exotic theories out. And yeah, absolutely. Area 51 exists. It's real. It's just, as I say, a question of, is that where we build our next generation of aircraft and trones, or is it where we take the secret stuff that crashed? I don't know the answer to that question, I'm afraid. When you went investigated, did you find any evidence of, let's say, alien life? No, no absolute smoking gun, but over the years myself and my predecessors built up a database

of case files. And you know, we are just in the final throws now of what's taken 11 years to declassify and release, what turned out to be around 60,000 pages of documents, some of which were classified at levels of secret UKIs only. Talking about some of these amazing cases, I mean, some of the military sightings staggered me when you have pilots, people with years of service in the military, talking about huge triangular shapecraft moving from a virtual hover to very high max speeds in just a few seconds, something like that.

Yeah, my skepticism was challenged, absolutely, and still is. Wow, that's so interesting. So what's your take in alien life right now? What is I see you do some speeches on it? What is your take on that whole thing? Do you are there aliens? I mean is that? Yes. Why why why not in a universe over 14 or around 14 billion years old, with trillions upon trillions of stars. And the more we find out about the universe, the closer we seem to be coming to zeroing in on earth-like planets,

orbiting sun-like stars. And I think it's a case of, you know, throw the dice enough times, and the same numbers come up. And there's nothing, unless you thought there was something literally magical about planet Earth, then all the same factors that gave rise to life here, all the, you know, the, the elements, the chemistry doesn't change. And I think, as I say, if you throw the dice enough times you'll find that life probably emerged elsewhere in the universe and in in terms of

I guess evolution and and Darwinian philosophy intelligence seems to be one of a number of survival strategies that seems to work and be pretty good, at least for us. So, there's no reason why life shouldn't, as it does here on Earth, kind of evolved to become increasingly complex and increasingly smart. And yeah, if that means intelligent aliens out there, why not? And why wouldn't they be doing exactly the same sort of things that we're now beginning to do? In other words, look outside and beyond our own world and try to find out what's out there. And just as we're taking our first baby steps into the wider cosmos, maybe others are doing the same thing. And in a universe, nearly 14 billion years old, just imagine the head start that, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, even, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thing. And in a universe, nearly 14 billion years old, just imagine the head start that even a civilization with a million years advance on us might have achieved and and ask what that technology might look like. It's intriguing. It's fascinating. It's such an interesting thing.

What was the typical call that you would get in? What's it like? Abductions? Any abduction? Yeah, like like, I mean, it's just, I just think there's aliens out there. I just think there's tons of stuff out there. I mean, I don't know, man.

It's kind of crazy right now. I believe in UFOs, thi I th. I'm th. I'm just, I'm just, I'm th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. I'm just, I'm just, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I just, I just, I just, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. I tha. tha. I'm thi. I tha. I'm tha. th think they have this I believe in UFOs man. Do you believe in aliens? Yeah, fuck yeah. And they've been pushing on it on us like they like, well like Eddie's Bravo said they're throwing it at us so that when it comes we're kind of just gonna just be used to it. Yeah, well I mean like when he they announced that that we had a UFO program nobody care. Oh no. Nobody care. Do you think. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do you th. Do you th. Do you th. Do you th. Do you th. Do you th. Do you th. Do you th. Do th. Do you th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. Do th. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they they're like. they're like. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they. they're. they. they. they they're. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're th. I. I. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I they're they're they're like like. I they're like. I they're like. I they're like. I they're like. been visited? I'm not sure about that, but I hope we have. I mean, as I say, I think the world would be more interesting with aliens in it than not. And I don't rule it out. But to go back to your point about your question about the typical call, I guess, yeah, we got some abduction cases, and we got some abduction cases and we got some crop circles and we got, we got, because you can't run a UFO program without getting

anything weird and wonderful, we got people who said that they were psychic and wanted to volunteer their services to the intelligence community, and we got people who said that they'd seen ghosts on military bases, so we really were the real life X-Files unit. Wow, that's crazy. I know, but the average call, I guess the absolute average call probably started with an apology. And it was, look, I'm really sorry, I hope you don't think I'm crazy, and I hope you don't think I'm wasting your time, but I saw something and it blew my mind.

And then they would go on to talk about a UFO sighting. So when you lecture, do you just, you go out and basically just talk about what you learned, or do you talk about UFOs and aliens and all that stuff? I try to start off by very narrowly sticking to what I absolutely know. And when I do that, I say to people, don't just take my word for it. Like, you know, there are a lot of kind of fairly crazy claims in this field. And a lot of people tell stories about this subject which are not necessarily true, but everything that I discuss, whether it's on television, radio, or public talks, wherever it is,

I say to people, look, go back and check all the files that I worked on, all the documents that I wrote, are now in the process of being declassified and released by the British government itself. They're going out onto the Ministry of Defense website, they're going out to our national archives. So don't just take my word for it. Everything I talk about can be absolutely 100 percent verified on these official databases. So that's where I start out.

But later on, sure, I will speculate, and I will say now I'm moving away from what I know and I'm telling you what I think. And I'm not afraid to have a little bit of fun with this and ask all those kind of interesting and different and fun, what if questions, what if we are being visited? What would the effects be on politics, religion, philosophy, science, technology, all those areas of the human experience?

Because I think those are the interesting questions, getting away from the sort of skeptic versus believer, is it or isn't it, debate, And saying, well, if it is, what next? Yeah, I mean, I think if aliens come, religion goes out the door, right? Dude, it'd be a shit show. Just imagine, like you just said, technology would be out there, and we got shitty technology, because they go out the door. Like people would just break their iPhone, they want the fucking alien shit. Hey is the Queen a lizard person? No, absolutely not. You've met her? I, well, you know what, one time when I was in the, in the Ministry Defense main headquarters building, she did a visit and I guess, I didn't get any briefing time with her personally, but she kind of walked past me about three feet away and

All of us in the UK have have great respect for her. So no Absolutely no lizards there. Okay. I'm I'm open to it though. I think something's going on. I think something's so we do advanced technology. We are hear about weapons all the time a heart attack gun the DARPA affects the weather I mean that stuff is that alien technology or just I mean just human ingenuity I think it's human ingenuity and I think I mean you're right particularly because so much of that tech human ingenuity and I think, I mean you're right, particularly because so much of that tech has military applications and we don't want it getting to the bad guys, it is kept under very close wraps and there are things out there that we have, whether

it's next generation aircraft or whether it's other things. There are things that we have that you won't see publicly acknowledged for 10, 20, 30 years or more. Yeah, so I mean like, I mean my buddy, his dad used to work at this Chicago Institute of Technology, and he said he saw an alien ship. He said he had to go downstairs on his floor. This floor he's never been to, and there was an alien ship, man. I think something's out there. I gotta be honest with you, man. I think there's... Well, here's a nice conspiracy theory, though.

Are you anti-conspiracy, Nick? Well, not always, but most of the time. But here's, try this one for size. What if the conspiracy isn't that the government knows about aliens and it's covering it up? But what if that is all human tech? But we wanted to hide it from the Russians or the Chinese? What better way, even with our own people, than saying, hey, it's aliens. So, you know, the person you talked about, that was a real thing, but it wasn't alien at the tole.

theyons, because when rumors get back to the Russians and they say, hey, the Americans have got aliens. The KGB, they say, that's just crazy stuff. That's obviously not true. And all the time it is true, we've built this amazing thing, but they don't pay any attention to it because they think it's a crazy alien story. So you don't believe in time travel, multiple dimensions, clones, any of that stuff? I don't rule it out, and you know going back to that story about the Pentagon's UFO program, just a few weeks ago, I acquired, I was the first person to publish it, a letter that the Defense Intelligence Agency sent to Congress about

this because Congress of course asked, hey, what the heck were you doing here? What were you researching and investigating? What were you hoping to find out? And they published a list of 38 studies and I don't know if you saw this in the media, but they covered things like anti-gravity, invisibility, wormholes, warp drive, so I absolutely I'm not sitting here trying to debunk all this and yeah there are parts of the government that are seriously looking at these sorts of things and I wouldn't rule out them looking at things like other dimensions.

I mean, in a sense, that research is already going on at the Large Hadron Collider in CERN. Time travel, why not? There are a couple of professors who've published papers on time travel, so why not? I mean, you know, like like I say I don't rule any of this out but I'm just saying that that doesn't necessarily come from from crashed spaceships. Human beings are pretty ingenuous, ingenious ourselves and maybe we maybe we thought up these sorts of things. So you recently did a workshop on alien religion.

Is that something? Well, my question was, kind of pretty much what you said earlier, what would be the effects on our religions, whatever denomination. And all the religions say, they talk a good talk here, they say, oh yeah, we'd be robust enough to incorporate this into our kind of beliefs. But I don't believe a word of it. I think it would challenge them all, and they'd have to kind of think of some new thing for us. And, you know, if it undermines religion and, they'd have to kind of think of some new thing for us. And you know, if it undermines religion and religion becomes a thing at the past, well, you

know, maybe that would be a good thing. So when you went on Tucker Carlson and what did you talk about? I'm trying to figure out, so you're a UFO expert, but you don't believe in UFOs? No, I don't say I don't believe. I say I keep an open mind on it, but I'm not one of these people who's going to tell you we've got crashed spaceships and dead aliens unless I have seen it myself. So this is a field, this is, I mean, my biggest problem with the civilian UFO community is that people make all these unverified claims. Now in government, if you make a claim, you'd done well, better be able to back it up with

absolutely verifiable, you can take that to the bank facts, not just, I heard a story from a friend who said that he had a friend who said that there was something hidden in an Air Force hangar. That doesn't cut it. It may be good, but going back to your question, in Britain it doesn't cover it, but cut it, but here it does, I mean like Russian collusion, weapons of mass destruction. It's just unbelievable, dude. It's just like, it's really tragic. It may cut it, but it shouldn't. I mean, all of the facts,

we should be looking at this subject in a proper, scientific way, trying to look at the data, analyze the cases properly, use algorithms and maybe AI to look for patterns and see whether there's something that human analysts have missed. I know that this doesn't probably sound as exciting and sexy as running around like Fox Mulder and Dana Scully with a flashlight and a gun, but unfortunately, that's real government UFO work. And it's still exciting, but it's not quite like you see on TV. Now to answer your question, what did Tucker Kalson asked me about this?

I mean, he of course saw those Navy videos of the jets chasing UFOs like we all did, and he said, hey, you know, what's going on? What has the government been doing on this? And I said, well, they've been doing something, but goes back to the point. We know that there's congressional interest in this. We probably need formal congressional hearings to get to the bottom of exactly what the government was doing, what they think about this, and what they know

about this. So in your life, in your career of intelligence, like, I mean, is the world a crazy place? Is it a that place? Is it a loving place? Did you, are the Russians the bad guys? Who are the bad guys? Oh, you know, there's good and bad guys on all sides and you know somebody who's your enemy today maybe your friend tomorrow. I mean human history shows us that that alliances are formed and shift and then flip all

the time. I mean you know there's there's kind of good and bad everywhere and I think it, you know, in a sense we should always try and look for the best in people and at the end of the day when people say, well, you know, what do the Russians want? The average Russian probably wants the same as you or I, you know, kind of a safe environment for yourself and your family, good schools for your kids, good jobs for everyone. It's not rocket science. Yeah, what did Russia actually, what is the thing that Russia did that makes them our enemy so badly?

Like what have you been intelligence, what is the thing that they've done? Well, I guess going back a few years it was the whole concept of Marxism-Leninism as a political philosophy that evolved frankly into a dictatorship where you know they were torturing and imprisoning their own people, let alone, sorethreatening their threatening their way, uh, their threaten, the way, the way, threaten, th, th, th, th, like, th, th, th, th., thi, thi, the, thi, thi, thi, like, the, thi, the, like, the, their, their, like, like, their, like, like, like, like, like, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th.. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thin, thin, thin. thin. th. th. thee. the thin. the. the. the the the thin. the. thin. thin. the. the. they were torturing and imprisoning their own people, let alone sort of threatening the West with destruction. So in many ways, if you look, certainly at the old Soviet regime, it was a dictatorship. And certainly if you look at someone like Joseph Stalin, in terms of his philosophy and the evil that someone like that did, he's up there with someone like Hitler, of course. Well, I hope we can get away from that.

I hope we can get away from those old 20th century dictators and get into something a little bit more, I guess, soft and friendly. But you know, wherever you look, there are always, I guess, dangers of new dictators emerging. But like I say, it goes back to the old point. The average person in the street, whether they're a U.S. citizen or a Russian citizen, they don't want that. Are we, are we, are we entering, is the United States entering a Hitler numbers? I mean with these we're going into our seventh war. Are there millions of people we've

have hundreds of thousands at least if not millions have died at these endless wars in the last two decades. Now we're going to Venezuela. It's like, are we starting to enter that place? No. And I know it's a cliche, but the fact that you can go on a show and make comments like that and not have some storm trooper types turn up at your door and drag you away somewhere is kind of the answer to your question. Yeah, but I think we are, I mean our foreign policy is really not good. I mean we have a good here, but I mean like Hitler was a horrible person but what I'm seeing us do right now is just really like, I think it's awful and I don't know who the bad guys are anymore. You know, I think I really question Western philosophy and Western policies right now. You know, a lot of people hate Muslims. I don't know why they hate Muslims. They're not bombing anybody.

We're bombing everybody. We're going in. We're going into places and we are taking out elected officials, putting our own guys in. It's like, I mean, they, they lost their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, to.. We. Wea, their, toe.. Wea. Wea, their, their, toe. Wea, their, their, their, their, the like, I mean, did the Nazis even lose? I mean, they lost the war, but they all got, basically, you know, they got thrown into an expansion draft. They joined the Russians and the United States and it's just, I don't know, sometimes I think that's just a continuation of that stuff. Or ended up in Argentina? Yeah. Some of them. But I do have to agree to disagree on thue. thue. thue. th. th. th. th. th. the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. their their their thi. thi. their, their, thi. their, thi. thi. thi. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their. toge. toge. th. th. th. th. their. th. th. their. their. their. their.. Some of them. I do have a question for you sir. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that and I mean certainly at the Nuremberg trials after the second world war, I mean many of the top Nazis who weren't, hadn't been killed or didn't commit suicide were put on trial and some, some were executed. Yeah, some were for for sure, but that will never happen now because the people in

our government never get thrown on trial. They're just above the law and I think it's a scary place to be right now. I mean endless war. I mean 19 years, man. We've, not counting the world drugs. Well, I shouldn't even make a joke about this, but you know, I guess I will will will the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the old the world drugs. Well, I shouldn't even make a joke about this, but, you know, I guess I will. The old definition of peace is a period of cheating between two wars. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah, I agree with you, man.

I mean, just war seems to be, they say it's the least violent time in history of man, but I mean, Yemen, what we're doing in Yemen is kind of disgusting. You know? It's, it, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, I, I, I, I, I, I, I guess, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I th history of man but I mean Yemen what we're doing in Yemen is kind of disgusting you know it's just you know for for every time you can point to a war or or something bad there's still something good in in human nature and I mean look at what happens following all the big natural disasters for example everyone rushes in to try to help with humanitarian aid, whether it's money or food or boots on the ground assistance. So yeah, there's bad stuff, but there's good stuff too.

I think sometimes the basic human instinct is to help people in trouble. Yeah, I do, I do believe that. But unfortunately, we also have a, I mean, the U.S. military is like everywhere now. There's no checks and balances. I think, the United States is very interesting because we're like, we're, you know, we're the baby brother of Europe, of the UK, Europe. You guys went through a very long period which you had royal families and all that stuff, and I just feel like you guys still do.

So yep, we still do of course. Yes of course, maybe lizard people we don't know. But you guys, you guys know tyranny when you see it and you seem to put a foot down. I don't, we're, I feel like our corporations right now are the new royals. They play above the law. They never really get, see any consequences for their actions. Like an Amazon. I mean just it's like it's insane. And I just think it's an interesting time. I get very nervous when we start thinking everybody on the other

sides, bad guys. When, you know, it's like my, you know, on Facebook I'm always getting hit up with people talking about Sharia law. And I'm like, yeah, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I mean, I, I, I th, th, th, th, thi, th, th, th really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the the the their their their their their their their their their their th, I th, I th, I th, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, thi, thi, thi, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, see, I'm always getting hit up with people talking about Sharia law. And I, like, yeah, I mean, I want Sharia law, obviously, you know, who wants, I don't want anybody to tell me how to live my life. But I also go like, we're bombing over there. Where, we are, we've, Obama ran out of bombs. There wasn't any more bombs. T the, the, the, th, th, we th, we th, we th, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we've, we've, we've, we've, we've, we've, we've, we've, we've, we've, we, we, we, we're, we, we're, we, we're, we are, we, we are, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, I, I, I, I, th, I, I, I, th, I, th, I, I, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. They couldn't drop anymore because they ran out of bombs. You know, this pipeline that we want to put through Syria, this stuff just like makes me super sad, you know? I just think that we got to kind of watch ourselves if we think that, you know, that side's really bad and

this side's really good. I still don't. I mean I understand the political system Russia Russia has in China which, which I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th, I th, I th, I th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi thi thi thi thi's thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi and China has, which, I mean, we work with China. Like, every business and corporation and politician works with China. So I don't know. Like, do you ever get worried about how close we work with China? Nick? Not particularly. I mean, I think it goes back to the point there have always been alliances formed and sometimes

just in the way of the world we have to do business with people that that maybe don't share all of our values. But I think a good question to ask yourself and it goes back to the point I made about your, your right, your absolute right to make critical comments against your own regime. It is always a very good test of any individual country, how critical you can be of your own country and what the consequences are. And if the consequences are that somebody sends you an angry message on Facebook, but

that's about it, then you're probably in a pretty good place comparatively. If the consequences are you are dragged off to some dungeon and you know tortured or worse, then not so much. Yeah, I mean right now we have what's her name, Chelsea Manning? She's in jail right now because she won't give any information out on the WikiLeaks situation. What's your take on Wikileaks right now? I know I know you were intelligence and that involved you know a bunch of basically a bunch of emails from high-ups and governments. What's your take on WikiLeaks? Well I think there is in any free, open and democratic society, obviously there has to be a place for responsible whistleblowing. And indeed there is that that is enshrined into the law through various acts.

But I think there is a danger in taking this too far. And what I see from time to time is people who take it upon themselves to become almost like the judge of what the American people should and shouldn't be allowed to see and those people without necessarily being the subject matter experts decide that needs to be put into the public domain. And I think that's where it gets very irresponsible. And I've seen things on WikiLeaks, for example, talking about how, well, I'm not even going to go into the details, but certain points about military doctrine and tactics, that if it

was read by people not favorably disposed towards the U.S., it would help them kill more members of the U.S. military by simply explaining how how soldiers go about their business in operational theaters. So I think when I see that sort of stuff kind of leaked into the public domain and when the consequences are that young men and women serving overseas are more likely to come back in a body bag, then I get annoyed about that. So yes, there's a place for whistleblowing, but that doesn't mean that people should be self-appointed arbiters of what gets put out there and what doesn't. But did you have a problem with them with Wikileaks

releasing that we were torturing people? I mean if we allow this things that these things happen we become the people we hate, right? I mean those are legit things that like okay are the lady who is in charge of CIA now basically created our torture program. I mean, do you have a problem with that with some of the stuff that was leaked about Hillary Clinton, like we found out a lot about Hillary Clinton from those WikiLeaks. Do you have a problem with that? Generally, if something is legitimately in the public domain, and like I say, there

is plenty of whistleblower legislation that allows for information to be brought to the attention of people and gives immunity and some degree of protection, but I mean, I'm not, I'm not a lawyer. I mean, my view is that if the law allows it, then that's fine. And if the law doesn't allow it, and if the law doesn't allow it, and if the law doesn't, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there is there is there is there is there is there is there is there is there is there is there, there is there is there, there is there, there is, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the is the is the is thea, like, like, like, like, theyyyymea, they.e, their, their, the not a lawyer. I mean, my view is that if the law allows it, then that's fine. And if the law doesn't allow it, then there's your answer. And that, after all, is what the checks and the balances are between the executive and the judiciary. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I agree with what you're saying ideally, but I see that we have a real problem with checks and balances right now. I don't, th. I th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, th th thi, thi, that, that, thi, thi, that, that, that, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, that, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the that's that, that, that, that, th yeah, I mean I agree with what you're saying ideally, but I see that we have a real problem with checks and balances right now. I don't think there are any checks and balances.

I mean, we see Debbie Wasserman Schultz interviewing somebody about election fraud. Like, why is she interviewing anybody about anything? I mean, she basically, handy, she basically rigged the DNC's primary. I just don't see. Now when you were working intelligence, did you ever run, I know you can't get anything specific obviously, but did you run in anything where you saw like, oh man, our government's doing something that I maybe, it's, I don't agree with.

No, I didn't. No, I didn't. No, no. Okay, that's interesting. I did, I mean, so, so, it it it it it, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. that. that. that. that. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that. that's, that's, that's, that's, it's. That's interesting. I did. I mean, so, it's interesting man. I just think that we need checks and balances. I think that whistleblowing is very important. I think Wickeleek's done a very good job. I think it's important to get, you know, torture. Because if if our troops get captured captured I want them to be treated with respect. So I think sure and the other treat and I don't get me wrong I mean I absolutely agree I about the checks and the balances and that's why we have we have as I say the the judiciary and the executive and in the US of course now I'm I'm a Brit so I'm now an honored guest in this great country, but in the US you have extra protection in terms of the Constitution, and then that gives

the judiciary, I guess, an extra kind of angle with all this, because you can always say, well, is this particular action constitutional? And then you have the role that the media can and does play in all of this. And the media, kind of as the fourth estate, should also be doing its job in holding elected representatives and government corporately to account. So, so everyone has a role to account. So everyone has a role to play in this, whether it's the executive, the judiciary, the media,

and indeed citizens. Yeah, unfortunately we've allowed our media to be consolidated into like five people owning all of it. And then, so now we have the internet and the internet is growing and you know we have the demonization of YouTube. You know they're trying to make it like all the information on YouTube's bad and all the information on mainstream media is good. I mean, checks and balances. Well, when being an intelligence, when something like the weapons of mass destruction

happens, you know there are people believe that was an inside job, 9-11 was an inside job, and that Dick Cheney was running the, basically just fishing for anything that could link Saddam with weapons of mass destruction. What happens? Is that, is that just like it was a missed opportunity or did somebody basically abuse their power? I don't know the answer to that. I mean, we know on the whole WMD situation, of course, we know that certainly at one stage,

Saddam Hussein absolutely had chemical weapons because he used them. Yes. And so the real question was... That's not a nuclear weapon, so I mean chemical weapons. Was he... Yeah, I don't know whether he was or was not trying to... Well, at one stage he was trying to develop a program, the question I suppose is did he actually have WMD when we went to war again? And you know, I was not involved with that particular subject.

Of course, I've just said, I know, well I know that in the British government we had a very detailed investigation into this afterwards called the Iraq Inquiry, headed by John Chilcott, and they interviewed hundreds of witnesses, they looked at and they published freely on the website, thousands of documents about this, and it was very difficult because at the end of the day, if you talk about, for example, a biological weapons program capability, that can be something as simple but as intangible as knowledge in the head of a handful of scientists, and it can be very quickly transitioned

into an actual program. So these issues are never black and white, but I want to go back to one other point that you made about the media and just how this is in a handful of corporations. I think the answer to that is citizen journalism. Yes. And I think that's a very good thing in any democracy. Citizen journalists, if you are not happy with the media as you see it, put out by the mainstream, go and do it yourselves, which I guess is exactly kind of what you're doing right now.

And the fact that this sort of thing can go on and that many many people are doing it can only be a good thing. Yeah I agree man we need more of it now YouTube's cracking down on everybody because nobody watches the news anymore they they abuse their power I think they lost a lot credibility during the Iraq war and I think they've lost a lot of credibility on this Russian gate too. with Trump calling it fake news. Yeah they it they it they it they it they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th ca ca ca ca ca ca- ca- ca- ca- ca- ca- cau can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thu thu thu thu thu thu thu-a thua thua thua thu-a thu can't thi can't the Iraq war and I think they've lost a lot of credibility on this Russian gate too. And with Trump calling it fake news. Yeah I mean Trump's just a very interesting, interesting guy. When we see that like nobody involved in the Iraq war, like do you ever see politicians being held accountable? Do we ever see them

when they've committed a war crime? Do they ever get held accountable? Do we ever see them when they've committed a war, they commit a war crime? Do they ever get held accountable? Well, certainly in history, we see that happening time and time again. And I mentioned, I mentioned obviously the Nuremberg trials, but we now have the various international courts and certainly a number of people, be they, people like Saddam Hussein or Slobodan Milosevic, find themselves put on trial afterwards for crimes not necessarily against other nations, but very often, of course, for crimes against their own people. And so there are those places. I guess in the West, when we talk about political accountability, the main political accountability is simply that if you don't like someone's policies, you vote them out.

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting. What do you think about all the sweeping technology now with, you know, that basically your phone is listening to you, you know, the spying on that, all that different stuff that we see going on right now? Five eyes where it's like, you know, all these different countries that we see going on right now, five eyes, where it's like, you know, all these different countries spy on each other's populations. Do you get worried about that? The right to privacy, I know you're British, and they don't have the right to privacy,

but that is something we have here. Does it make you nervous that all these recording devices are all out there? Yes, absolutely. And in the UK, we were probably the most surveilled society on the face of the planet in terms of the number of CCTV cameras per person and per square mile. Absolutely. I think those sorts of privacy issues are very important and and it is important that we push back against the big media corporations when they try to collect personal data on us. And you know, it is important that we educate ourselves as to what our rights are in

terms of control of our own data and making sure that our own data do not end up in the hands of anyone that we don't want them to end up with. And yeah, I am a firm believer that I think the big tech companies don't make it as easy as they should for us to, A, find out exactly what they do know about us, you know, who we are, where we shop, where we visit what restaurant we go to, what we order, and secondly, that they retain that data. So I think, yeah, those are big, important issues.

The British government, by the way, published fairly recently a document called Global Strategic Trends. And the Global Strategic Trends Program, kind of relevant to the discussion we're having, because it looks forward about 40 years into the future, 30, 40 years into the future, and, 40 years into the future and says what might be coming.

And in this global strategic trends document, there is a lot written about personal privacy, data protection, and it says that in the future we may be so interconnected and our devices and that the internet of things and our cell phones being so kind of hooked into everything else that you may have to almost pay to go off the grid to get away from all this electronic fog. Yeah so yeah it's a scary world. It's everywhere. Do you want to wait a wait up Do you know how many cameras the UK has right now? It has four to five point nine million cameras Throughout the whole the whole UK. That's a lot of fucking cameras. You guys are already in the future.

That's that means that if you drop a a chip packet on the street, you're probably somebody sees you do that from about six different angles Yeah, I mean that's and then when there's no cameras it's always suspicious. Yeah, you know, um, so with this rushing game and then we'll wrap it up here Russian gates coming out involved a M. I. I. I. I. 5. Um, yeah, there Is it MI-5? MI-5? Well, yeah, there was one former MI-6 officer who went into the private sector and did this report. Yeah, what's your whole thought on that whole thing? With the FISA, I don't know if you've been following it, FISA, the wiretapping of an elected president. What's your old take on that? I have obviously been following it to some extent, just as somebody who obviously does take an interest in what's going on in the world. But now that I no longer work for the British government, I have no, I don't, for example,

unless I forgot to sign off on one, I don't hold a current security clearance, so I don't have any inside knowledge of this. I will just wait and see what these various inquiries come out with, and then I guess we'll be in interesting territory, but I don't have any inside information that I can share on that, and I don't particularly have any sense of which way it's going to go.

Can you explain to me Mr. Bean? Mr. Bean? Yeah, everybody over there loves Mr. Bean. Well, what about what? I guess the UK, yeah, we in the UK have always had this slightly offbeat humor that whether it's Mr. Bean or whether it's faulty towers or whether it's Monty Python, I think British humor is subtly different from US humor, but one thing I will say which might just explain a little bit of Mr. Bean. Us Brits have always liked a little

bit of slapstick mixed in with our comedy and we've always liked as well just the idea of the little guy caught up in a situation and that of course is where where the phrase sitcom comes from. It's the comedy that derives from the situation. So well, look, I should not be trying to tell you anything about comedy because you know a zillion times more about it than I do. Well, that's my take. Well, I appreciate you, Nick Pope. You're a wonderful man.

I appreciate you spending some time on the show with us today. Where do you want me to our our listeners go check out what your website? You want which is? Yes. Yeah Nick Pope. Net is my website. It has work about my, it has information about my government work, my various books and it links to my Facebook and Twitter account. So Nick Pope dot net. All right Nick, thank you so much for coming on the show. We appreciate it. We'd love to do it again soon and Hopefully I'll be able to come check one of your seminars. I'd love to see what you talk about. This has been great. Thank you very much. I appreciate you. Thank you. It's been great to be on the show and I've really enjoyed having the chance to tococococococococ-o. to to to the to to the to to the the to to the to the to the to to the to the to the the the to the the to the the to the to to the the to to the the the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to. to. to. to. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. the. the. thee. theeean. thean. thean. nee. neeat. to. to. to. to. th th th th th th th. It's been great to be on the show and I've really enjoyed having the chance to talk in depth about some of these more interesting geopolitical events. I love it dude next time we'll have you on we'll just do geopolitical we won't even talk to UFC. I'd love to just pick your mind. I love I love Brits. So dude thanks coming on dude. You're Gionmaud. Everybody will see you soon. Thank you.