Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - #184: Bigfoot With Dr. Jeff Meldrum

Starting point is 00:00:00 Global controls will have to be imposed and a world governing body will be created to enforce them. Welcome to Tinfoil Half. We go deep home, boy. Eric, open your mind. Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. That's some interdimensional... Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere.

Starting point is 00:00:29 That's some interdimensional idea. Wake up, Aaron. This is only the beginning. You just flew my mind. Timfoil Hat, tinfoil. Yeah, and welcome to another episode of Tinfoil Ha. You know who I am, you know what I'm here to do. Join me as always is XG and the place to be.

Starting point is 00:00:50 How are you XG? Good man. We got a good week of shows. You got three episodes coming this week because we love y'all. All of them are unique in their own way and they're going to be great. Real quick, I just want to talk about the big show next week. Next Tuesday night at the Comedy Store is Absolute Abstract presents the Comedy Chaos Live, April 30th at the Comedy Store. Just go to the Comedy Store.

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Starting point is 00:02:39 And of course the patron is growing and growing and going, go to Patreon.com backslash Timfall Hat. Enjoy the group. Now before I bring in our guest, I just want to say real quick on the last episode I would like to think Nuno and Sarah at Shukum Films for making the new intro. I didn't play it today because we're figuring out how to run it within the studio so you can Sarah, Shoucom Films is an international film and video company based in Europe which operates worldwide and make sure to check them out at Shoucoms it's SKUOOKUM slash films.com and you can contact them and ask them for a free quote for any of your

Starting point is 00:03:27 video needs. Also check out Sarah B. M-O-U-R-A. dot com where you can get her make comedy offensive again hat, which I really love. No is a award-winning filmmaker and we will have them on the show very soon and Shukum is another name for Bigfoot, coincidentally that is the theme of today's show, an episode which they helped make happen by getting in toucest with our guest today. And our guest today is, I'm very excited about it, which is great because I opened up every single one. He is a professor of a tie-up show. th show. th. the show the show th. the show th. th. the show th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. And th. And the show th. And the show the show th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And the show is the show the show th. And the show th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And the show the show the show the show the show th. And the show the show th. And th. And the show, the show, the show, the show, the show, th. And, the show, the show, the show, the show, the th. And, the the. And, the te. And, theateateat, theateat, theate. And theate. And the. And, th. And, th. And and our guest today is I'm very excited about it which is great because I opened up every single one. He is a professor of anatomy and

Starting point is 00:04:11 anthropology at the Department of Biological Science at Idaho State University please welcome Dr. Jeff Meldrum. How are you Jeff? Great, thank you. Thank you for coming. I appreciate it. We've worked hard to get you on. And now we got a little time. Time restraints, this gonna be a little shorter episode, but we're gonna get into it. Jeff, Q, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Starting point is 00:04:37 And why do you, how did you get into the big foot business? Right, well as you said, my day job, if you will, is teaching human gross anatomy in the health professions programs. And I also research questions relating to the evolution of human bipedalism, how it is we came to walk on two legs. And that's kind of the nexus point. That's where the interest in another bipedal primate came into focus.

Starting point is 00:05:07 So as an academic, this involved me literally crossing paths with a long line of tracks, left presumably ostensibly by a Sasquatch. And the more I scrutinized them, the more I examined them, investigated them, the more convinced I was that yeah, this was the real deal. That was in 1996, and now some 20, what, two years later, three years later, I've got over 300 examples of footprint casts from all over the world, in fact, in my lab. That's been the, one of the principal pieces of evidence that has focused my attention. Are there any seriously credible anthropologist doing research about Sasquatch right now? Well, there are a few of us that are openly and actively doing that.

Starting point is 00:06:00 One of my closer colleagues was Dr. John Vendernagel, who unfortunately passed away here shortly less than a year ago. He was a wildlife biologist in British Columbia, Canada in semi-retirement. I work behind the scenes with a lot of academics, though. I edit a online scholarly journal, which is a great means by which I can recruit other academics to either submit original research or to review and comment upon others' research. And it provides a great platform for the promoting of the discussion of this when, you know, normal channels of scientific discourse are sometimes less open to the possibility, less willing to devote time and space to the discussion of these questions which they see as less than

Starting point is 00:07:02 meritorious, I guess you'd say. What would we, if we had to categorize what Bigfoot is, we've heard a lot of different discussions. I've heard people say, oh, it might just be a bear that's wounded and it's walking upright. Some might say it's an Armenian who's lost in the forest. Something gets a time-traveling, interdimensional being. What, if you had to say, what is, what is Bigfoot?

Starting point is 00:07:33 Right, well you've touched on quite a few of the various propositions, and we could add even more and even something more outlandish than those. I'm approaching this as a... Sorry about that. That's all right. I love our landlines. I'm approaching this as a biologist, as an anthropologist first and foremost. And so, you know, according to the strictures of the scientific method, we have to start with the simplest explanation first,

Starting point is 00:08:05 persistent one, and start with that first, then we can, then we can go to more complicated ones. And so, so we first have to do that, turn that down. It's fine, it's all good. Okay, So... We expect that on the show. Yeah. I've been that. But, and so basically it boils down to a question of, you know, where does it fit in? Is there a context? Do you have to resort to some extraordinary explanation of something dropping out of the ether? But I don't think you do.

Starting point is 00:08:42 I mean, we were learning that our family tree was very complicated, it was very bushy. Just recently there was the discovery of another species to add to that family tree, a species of diminutive hominin in the Philippines that was only about three to four feet tall. And that's just one more branch on this very bushy family tree and several of those branches have persisted until more recently than we we we we th we th we th we th we th we th we th we th we th we th we th the th bushy family tree, and several of those branches have persisted until more recently than we would have ever acknowledged just 20 years ago. And so I think that's what Sasquatch is. I think is one of the branches of that tree that is on this planet living right alongside us, but being very rare, very elusive, very reclusive, and as such it has escaped recognition.

Starting point is 00:09:26 I mean, we didn't discover the mountain gorilla until the 20th century. So it's not beyond the realm of possibility that something could have escaped our attention until this point. There are giant, giant forests and jungles which we've never really explored at all. And we find, we actually find civilizations of just human beings like tribes that we've never seen before never heard before didn't know they existed until recent I think they just found a new tribe in South America that they didn't know existed and what are there different realm so anything is

Starting point is 00:10:04 possible I mean like we just like as we go deeper into the ocean We find more more exotic Sea life that we didn't even know existed just like stuff that's from sci-fi and even our nightmares. You're like oh my god. That's that's on this planet. That's mind blowing So I could see how this could could happen. We just found another. I forget the name of this planet, that's mind-blowing. So I could see how this could happen. We just found another, I forget the name of the species of animal, but it was supposed to be extinct. And then this fox just came out of nowhere I think it was. And it was back.

Starting point is 00:10:35 And the world is such an insane mystery. Would you say, would you say that Sasquatch, Yi and Bigfoot are the same thing? No, no, I think that they would represent different branches. Oh really? Three. So yeah, I mean my expertise is the foot, the footprints and you know the adaptations exhibited there. For example, if you look at the Sasquatch foot, it has a non-divergent big toe, and it retains a rather flexible midfoot, but it superficially more resembles a human foot.

Starting point is 00:11:12 There you go. The Yeti footprint, on the other hand, looks essentially like a chunky chimpanzee. It has a stocky, divergent big toe with shorter lateral toes, but it clearly retains those adaptations for tree climbing that we find in the other great apes. We could turn to Russia where the reports of the almas, the almasty, the captor, these descriptions are much more human-like in many respect to some. They're covered with hair from head to toe, but they have behaviors and anatomies including the foot, which has an arch, which has a broad but arched foot that is very reminiscent

Starting point is 00:11:56 of footprints we associate with neanderthals from cave sites in Europe. So it's possible that there are multiple branches on this bushy tree that have persisted into the very recent past. Have you been called into some places and just been shocked by what you've heard? Like, I'm sure there are some people call you in that's let's, aren't that credible and you've got to go, okay, I'm not, this doesn't seem like, you know, a journey I want to go down to investigate, but have there been some where you're just like, wow, where this is like, go, we've hit the mother load of what we're discovering. Are there any instances that really stand out in your head?

Starting point is 00:12:46 Oh sure. I mean, one that was just very resoundingly confirming in my mind was when I had the chance to go to China, the Chinese have traditions about a Sasquatch-like creature, remarkably similar in description and in the footprints that they leave, called the Yeren, the wild man, literally. And one witness that we were able to interview had in, wrapped up in his little suitcase, some footprint cast that he had made. And once they had everything set, the cameras rolling so they could capture my initial reaction, he, he unveils these and lifts them out. And I was just flabbergasted because they were almost identical to some examples of footprints

Starting point is 00:13:33 that I was very familiar with here from North America, from California in particular. In fact, those that were associated with the notorious Patterson Gimlin film, that piece of footage you've probably seen, if you've seen a video or a film of Bigfoot, that one is the notorious Patterson Gimlin film, that piece of footage you've probably seen if you've seen a video or a film of Bigfoot, that one is the preeminent example. And here was an example on the other side of the Pacific that not only showed the same size, shape, proportions, but details of the anatomy as reflected in this distinctive, what we call the mid-tarsal pressure ridge, a feature that is indicative of the, uh, the anatomy as reflected in in this distinctive what we call the mid-tarsal pressure ridge, a feature that is indicative of the flexibility retained in

Starting point is 00:14:12 this foot. Now how this guy could have faked this, I mean if this if you're going to resort to that, you know, he had no knowledge of the Sasquatch. He had no access to Western television and all the documentaries and so forth that that are available here that might have, you know, informed him of what to incorporate into a hoax. And yet, here we have these two examples that were remarkably convergent. That was pretty astounding to me and yet unfortunately it it bounces off the facade of the you know existing paradigms in anthropology and hardly makes an impact or it's not a very visible one. I find that anything

Starting point is 00:14:59 that doesn't follow the status quo gets to dismissed instantly. Anything that doesn't allow our paradigms of what we've been trained or brainwashed into believing gets dismissed instantly. If it's a video it gets dismissed, if it's a picture, it's a Photoshop. If it doesn't fit within the realms of the laws of physics or anything like that Even though we see stuff over and over and over again That lets you know this is such a complex Universe we live in if it's not the stas quo. They don't want to hear about it and if you preach stas quo you get pushed forward and celebrated as the guy who's telling us what we already know

Starting point is 00:15:44 Yeah, they really love telling us what we already know. Yay! They really love that. I know that you focus more on the foot and the footprint. What I would like to know are what are some of the characteristics of a big foot that might stand out that makes him different than either of a mountain gorilla or a bear and a human or human of any sorts. What makes it different than everybody from size to how they walk or anything unusual about that? Right.

Starting point is 00:16:13 Well, yes, superficially they resemble us in their upright posture and their habit of walking on to legs. They show adaptations for that that that are similar to those in humans. For example, elongation of the, of the, of the, of the size, of the size, of the size, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of their size, of their size, of their size, of their size, of their size, of their size, of their, of their, of their, from their, from their, from size size size size size size size, from their, from their, from their, from size, from size, from size, from size, from size, from size, from size, from size, from size, from size, from size, from size, from size, from size, from their size, their sizeto the legs, they show adaptations for that that are similar to those in humans. For example, elongation of the hind limbs, not to the extent we see in most humans today, but nevertheless, likewise, as I pointed out, they have that non-divergent big toe that is also a hallmark of bipedalism. But you know, at that point, the resemblance is kind of stopped, because otherwise then they look like, essentially like a great ape.

Starting point is 00:16:53 Like they're covered with hair. They have a smaller brain capacity. They have these remarkably heavy, deep jaws with squared off teeth. In that respect, they're more haumin and like, I guess, because the Great Apes, you know, present these long canines. It was kind of interesting when when the Patterson Gimlin film was first viewed by some of the experts at the Smithsonian Institute back in 1967, 68, they, one of the more open-minded ones, admittedly more

Starting point is 00:17:27 open-minded ones, still said he had trouble because when you looked at it from the waist up it looks like an ape, essentially like a gorilla with long legs like a typical human. And he said it's almost inconceivable in my mind, he said that that such a combination of traits would exist in nature. It just went against, as you said earlier, against the status quo, against the paradigm. And on that basis, largely, he rejected. He said it has to be fake. Well, it's interesting because had he waited, he made those pronouncements in a book

Starting point is 00:17:59 that he published, to his credit, he at least took the time and effort to really research it and wrote a very interesting book for its time back in about 19072, I think it was. If he'd waited just a few more years, he would have witnessed the discovery of the famous Lucy, Australopithecus afforensis, one of these early, upright-walking, bipedal hominid ancestors. And yet, how did the popular press describe her? From the waist up, she looks essentially like a chimpanzee. From the waist down, she looks like a little hairy human. Isn't it interesting how these unexpected combinations of characteristics are found in these early bipedal hominids?

Starting point is 00:18:44 Well, now, wait a minute, just five years ago, that was the basis for this researcher, John Napier to reject the Patterson Gimlin film and the existence of Sasquatch almost outright. And yet, if he had, you know, what would, how would his book have turned out if he'd waited a decade later to write that, you know? And that's one of the interesting things is, for sure. Sasquatch, you know, if I took a picture like you just posted, if I took that picture from the Patterson Gimlin film and use that to illustrate an early, robust Australopithecis, disregarding

Starting point is 00:19:22 the size, but just the appearance of it, I could stick it in an introductory anthropology text and most people wouldn't bat an eye if they weren't familiar with where that picture came from. But that brings up another point in asking for a description, you know, that female, big foot there from Northern California is estimated to be just under seven feet in height, probably we weighed about 600 to 800 pounds. Shot some tits on it. You know, it sounds like, it looks like Zion Williams, they're just like 6, 7, 300.

Starting point is 00:19:55 Yeah. Well, double that weight. If you have a male with a 16 inch, her foot was just over 14 and a half to 15 inches. A male foot is probably between 16 to 18 inches in length. Probably stands upwards of 8.5 feet in height and probably weighs anywhere from, you know, a thousand to 1,200 pounds. Oh my God. Yeah. So, you know, that's like a moose. Yeah. You imagine a moose standing up and walking across that sandbar. So it's, it's obviously, I mean, like, like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, that, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, a moose standing up and walking across that sandbar.

Starting point is 00:20:26 So it's obviously, I mean like we're talking 800 to 1,200 pounds. How do we know anything about how it eats? How it hunts? Is it a carnivore? Is it a, you know, is it a vegan hipster? You know, like what, what do we know about its eating patterns? Does it hunt in packs? Does it hunt by itself? Have we ever seen any of these, these beings in a pack together, working together like we've saw through, you know, human history and in the animal kingdom? Right. Well the vast majority of sightings and

Starting point is 00:21:05 footprint finds would suggest solitary individuals and that's I suspect is the is the prevalent status of these creatures their social structure is semi-solitary and they probably only interact on rare occasions but as you point out some people have indicated occasions where there have been multiples more than one. And I suspect that's probably a male and a female, a female that may have some dependent offspring, but enough time has transpired. She's ready to hook up with the bow on the block here again. And so they may have seen kind of a transient family group, if you will, or social group.

Starting point is 00:21:52 As far as their diet, you know, based on the eyewitness reports, they seem to be omnivores. That is, they eat everything from roots and berries right on up to deer and elk. And that would make sense given their size and their evolutionary history, I mean derived from another large ape probably of some form or an early hominine that had included more meat in its diet.

Starting point is 00:22:21 So yeah, it, it, uh, you know, they probably have to forage over a wide range in order to find sufficient resources to support that bulk, but it's not out of the realm of possibility at all. Like I said, there are other animals, big brown bears, grizzly bears, deer, elk, moose that are pushing the limits of that body mass, that size, and there's an advantage to being bigger. When you're larger like that, you can get by on less rich foodstuffs because your large size allows for more surface area for digestion and absorption and a slower gut passage time to allow for those things to be properly digested. So the ecology is there, I mean, that's the thing.

Starting point is 00:23:11 You know, we would go back to that notion of context. You don't have to put on a tinfoil hat in order to imagine. But we wouldn't be married to if you did. Right. But they, married to if you did. Right. But they, there's an absolutely sensible rational explanation as a biological species, just one that is extremely rare and smarter than your average bear

Starting point is 00:23:38 and able to elude human, human contact when they want to. I think that... Have we seen any Evidence of like Animals have been kind of hunted and killed by bigfoot have they found Remains of any kind of like battles where like oh this animal sustained a scar or a wound that does not fit any of the animals that we know? Would you like that does not look like a bear attack to me. This could this could there has to be? There has to be? T, there has to be the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, the the the th, the the the the the the to be? the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the evidence? the evidence? uh, uh, the evidence the evidence uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, evidence, evidence, the, evidence, the, evidence, the, the, evidence, the, the, the, the, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, fit any of the animals that we know would do like that does not look like a bear tactomy. This could, there has to be something else. Have we seen any of those? There are things that are suggestive, you know, not

Starting point is 00:24:15 definitive or conclusive by any means, but for example, deer kills where the head has literally been corkscrued, twisted to the point that the cervical vertebrae are fractured, which is not the way, you know, most animals, most predators, dispatch. You're talking it, snap. It's like what Bruce Lee used to do to all the bad guys in the do, you would just go, Gah! I like that. Twisting the neck, yeah, to the point that the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, the thec, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the cervicaler, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, theec.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.c.eec.ec.ec.ec.ec.ec.ec.ec.evc.eclereva, teva, their, their, their, cervical, their, cervical, their, cervical he would just go, go, go! I like that. Twisting the neck, yeah, to the point that the neck vertebrae break, yeah. So that's, that's one possibility. There's other signs, I mean, for example, up in British Columbia, in the Pacific Northwest, one of the names applied to this is the eater of cockles.

Starting point is 00:25:01 They, they, they, the shell fish, the shell, the shell, the shell, the shell, the shell, the shell, they, they, these shellfish, and they'll find, they'll find on the beach piles of the shucked shells that they've gone through, which no other animal does. I mean, no other animal, except humans, for that matter, I guess, piles them up like this. So, yeah, there are some indirect evidence that points to some of the things that they very likely eat. One famous account, a witness watched a Sasquatch digging through a tailus pile, you know, that slope of loose rock. And as he'd lift a rock up and smell the under surface, stack it over to the side, and then

Starting point is 00:25:42 when he got sent, he just started pulling rocks out right and left until he dug a six-foot hole and came up with a grass nest from which he extricated a sleeping rodent and ate it like a hot dog, just a hole, biting it right down. So, look what he did to that their deer. So could we look at this picture real quick? Yeah. Oh my God! Yeah? Man, nature can be violent, huh?

Starting point is 00:26:12 Man. Well, sure, I mean, if you have, you know, if you think about it, it's said that a chimpanzee has the strength of five men. You know, they can sit and hold themselves up. I've watched a chimpanzee support his weight from the strength of five men. You know, they can sit and hold themselves up. I've watched a chimpanzee support his weight from the ledge of a window with just one fingertip, basically. So they're capable, if you imagine that a chimp weighing a couple hundred pounds has the strength of five men, how strong, if a Sasquatch retains that kind of muscle physiology, how strong would an 800 or 1,000 pound Sasquatch be?

Starting point is 00:26:49 I mean, it pulling the haunches off a deer like that, disembaling it with its fingers, with its hands, wouldn't be an extraordinary feat at all. That would be like you pulling the skin off or out of it. Yeah, I want to get into the discovery of what was just found in the Philippines. But before I do, I want to tell you about our good friends at Lucy.co. If you're looking for a boost of nicotine, now you can enjoy anywhere without inhaling any smoke or vape, check out the powerful long-lasting flavors of Lucy gum

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Starting point is 00:28:55 Well, they found a few bits and pieces of bone, some hand bones, finger, finger bones, that is, a couple of foot bones. There was a fragment of a pelvis and a femur as I recall. They've been attributed to a new species, Homo, and that remains to be seen. If that's warranted, Homo Luzonensis for the island of Luzo in the northern Philippines. It probably only stood about three to four feet tall. So it's very reminiscent of Homo Floresianz, just not far away to the west of Indonesia,

Starting point is 00:29:36 which also is a very small hominin. Luzinensis is interesting because the fingers and toes, while they were shortened, they weren't as ape-like as, say, a chimp or a gorilla, they still are remarkably curved and have very strong markings for the attachments of the retaining bands that hold the flexor tendons. In other words, they were powerful, they had a powerful grip, which we only find in primates that are climbers. So this little three to four foot hominin was definitely spending a lot of time climbing in trees and, you know, remains

Starting point is 00:30:22 to be seen whether they had a cranial capacity that was on par with that of other Homo, Floresianzus has remained somewhat controversial because even though it's attributed to Homo, it has a brain the size of a chimpanzee. So how many, how many different types of humans, how many, there's Homo sapiens, how many of those are there? Well, yeah, now in that family group, since the divergence from a common ancestor shared with chimps, there are literally dozens now, and that's the point I was making earlier is we continually add, not quite on an annual

Starting point is 00:31:05 basis, but almost a new species every year. And so it has just grown and grown. So at any slice of time in the past, you might have half a dozen contemporaneous species living across the landscape. If you could jump in a time machine and go back just 30,000 years to East Africa, you might encounter Homo Heilibrigensis, Homo fluorescenes, now homo leuzenes, homoe erectus, homosapians,

Starting point is 00:31:38 homodenisovan, if that still eventually will become a distinctive species, which I'm quite sure it will. So there's a half dozen right there, you know, you, it's like, who was it? One person said, it's like the world of the Lord of the Rings. There were all kinds of two-legged creatures walking around the landscape. It's unbelievable. And that raises the question, why would the present be the exception to that rule? I don't think th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. thi. thi. the the the the of the of the of the of the of the of the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the theeeeeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooooooooooooooooooeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. So, the. question, why would the present be the exception to that rule? I don't think it is. And why do people push so hard against it? I just, that's the weirdest thing, like, how many times have we been lied to through the

Starting point is 00:32:15 media and all this stuff and even parts of science has straight up beasted us? Yet this one thing, really in this, you know, in life, in life, thiiiiiiiiiiii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is thi, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is us, yet this one thing really in this, you know, in life, isn't going to make your world any better or any worse, doesn't really have an effect on your daily life, seems to be pushed back so hard. Like, what was the first evidence you saw in your own personal life when you were like, okay, this is something and it's very interesting and it's not just a fuzzy picture, it's there's more to this. What was the first credible evidence you saw? Well the first personal experience I had was in 96, and as I mentioned, coming face to

Starting point is 00:33:02 face with a long line of footprints. That was in southeastern Washington, and I was shown those by a, with a long line of footprints. That was in southeastern Washington, and I was shown those by a witness. And so, you know, I was a little dubious and doubtful of what was laid before me, but the more I looked at it, it really sank in. I mean, as I looked at the details that were evident there, the animation of this trackway and these individual footprints, it was like, how could this person or any person for that matter have orchestrated this

Starting point is 00:33:40 as a hoax? I mean, the subtleties of anatomy that they would have to have a mastery of, you know, those are only had by, oh, geez, a dozen academics across the country. Maybe a few podiatrists or orthopedic surgeons added to that list, but my experience has been, they don't make the transition from human anatomy and pathology to evolutionary morphology very smoothly. So you know, it's a, it's kind of a small elite club, if you will, or exclusive, I won't say elite, but an exclusive club of people who could pull off that kind of a fabrication. And certainly this gentleman didn't have the wherewithal at the time.

Starting point is 00:34:26 And I, as I was pointing out details of anatomy, you know, it was, you know, going right over his head. He did not know what I was talking about. And so that, you know, that then now combined with the dozens and dozens of remarkable examples that, that reiterate and confirm so many of those subtleties repeatedly, it's like who's passing out the little black book of instructions on how to fake a big foot track? Yeah. But the ones that you have seen that, obviously you've been called some places and you're like, okay, this is unfortunately a hoax. Right.

Starting point is 00:35:10 How many, how many times that happened to you and why do you think people would do that? Right. Well, my experience has been that the majority of superfluous items are misidentifications. Oh, interesting. You alluded to seeing a bear, for example. It's people reading too much or over-interpreting things that they come upon. So a pothole that has a vaguely oval outline suddenly becomes a footprint, you know, or a bear track that is not as clear and distinct,

Starting point is 00:35:50 but those toes sure look or eye-catching, that becomes a big foot track. Likewise, as you point out with so many of the photographs, you know, the term blob squatch has a basis in the fact that so many very poor quality, unfocused, sketchy images are attributed to Sasquatch. The overt hoaxes are much less frequent. I mean, because thankfully most people have better things to do with their lives, you know, then those few pathetic individual instances.

Starting point is 00:36:31 And so, you know, for whatever reason, some people take it on as a challenge to try to, to try to prove that they can fool someone like me, or they just get a kick out of the attention that it brings to them, are motivated to try to do something like this. And, you know, I think most overt hoaxes are quite transparent. And it's usually the big foot researchers are the ones that expose them for what they are very quickly, as has been the case with a number of, for example, footprint hoaxes over the past couple of two or three years. So yeah, I mean what we see is that there's just people who just mistake infamy for fame.

Starting point is 00:37:21 We see people who kind of get off on pulling one over, you know, within the dating website services. It's called catfishing where like a man will pretend he's a woman and see how long he could go and see how much information he extract from somebody else on the other line. And it's just a weird thing that people get off on like yeah it's just like some people just enjoy pulling cons they just enjoy it and and they just think it's funny to have somebody come out and do all this all this stuff and see how far they can go with it but inevitably it always crashes and burns on these people and you want to feel sorry for him but part of me just doesn't because it's really just unnecessary and you're just making some it's unnecessary and you're just making something that is incredibly

Starting point is 00:38:13 hard even harder well right and especially as you as you point out the reaction of you know of institutional of mainstream science that simply is throwing gas on the fire. It just steals the resistance and the rejection as being, you know, this being unorthodox, unscientific, because it just muddies the water. It really, you know, it's unfortunate that instead of going out and being able to evaluate data, evaluate evidence, the first thing I have to do is to assess it and evaluate whether it's legitimate or whether it's hoaxed. And it's, you know, it's bothersome. How many big foots would you say there is in North America? If you had to give like a great question.

Starting point is 00:39:07 You've got to give like a crazy estimate. And it, the number, I'm rather conservative in that estimate. In all of North America, as you put it, I would limit it to just a couple of thousand, maybe 3,000. You know, in my state of Idaho, which has more wilderness than any of the other lower 48, you know, I put the number at about 200, 200 to 300. In your state alone. Yes, wow. Now to put that in perspective, in Idaho,

Starting point is 00:39:38 it's estimated there are 25,000 to 35,000 black bear. So a hundredfold more black bear. Now you just think about it and that's a useful concept because you think about how difficult it is to find evidence of black bear in the wild. You know it's a challenge. They're they're pretty elusive. They call them the ghost bears here and in in uh, you know, or shadows of the forest, that is. One of the nicknames, there's a book by that name about bear biology in Idaho. You know, unless you, if you're a hunter, unless you have hounds or you are able to

Starting point is 00:40:18 bait the bears, they would be a really challenging quarry to hunt down. So take that a hundredfold and transpose that to a Sasquatch, which has the intelligence of a primate, a grade A at least, if not more, much more than a bear and are much more far-ranging or bipedal and so forth. It's not that surprising. It's really not that surprising that that they have remained so elusive and they're so difficult to encounter. You know, most of the credible encounters are purely by happenstance. They're just by chance, by random chance. Any chance we found like remains like bones like let's say a big foot died in the forest

Starting point is 00:41:05 and luckily around that time a hunter came through and they're like whether it's the actual flesh on the bone or the remains of a skeleton has there ever been any skeleton remains they say they bury themselves they bury themselves you like well well yeah well that's that's been suggested that they bury themselves. They bury themselves? You like, well, like, yeah. Well, that's been suggested that they bury their dead. That's a little hard to rationalize if they are as solitary and singular and, you know, their movements and habits. I mean, I guess it's possible if one gets sick, he calls out or she calls out for some

Starting point is 00:41:44 assistance, but I think it's just it's just the rarity when again go back to the bear example one of my colleagues Dr. Grover Kranz and anthropologists at Washington State used to make the habit when he was speaking in public of asking people how many of you have ever found the skel or the skeleton or the skull even of a bear that had died a natural death or that was a that the or the skull or the skull even of a bear in the wild that had died a natural death or that was a yeah the died of natural death that wasn't shot by a hunter or killed by a road kill as road kill and in you know in decades of asking that he got almost no positive responses well why is why is that? Well, because top predators,

Starting point is 00:42:28 when they get old and decrepit, they secret themselves off to some nook or cranny to die, and they're quickly disposed of. I mean, you know, you think about, you know, one of my friends was from Wisconsin, and he checked with their Department of Natural Resources and they estimated about 10,000 deer died every winter of winter kill. 10,000 deer and yet you go out hiking and then similar numbers are probably true throughout the Intermountain West and so forth. If you go out hiking you don't stumble over all these remains of the thousands and thousands of deer because they get chewed up, you know decomposed, they get discomposed, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, theeeeeauuiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, thi, thi, thi, th these remains of the thousands and thousands of deer because they get chewed up, you know, decomposed, they get dissolved by the acidic soil and so forth. It's just the way nature takes care

Starting point is 00:43:14 of things, cleans up after itself. So, you know, a hundredfold more deer, a hundredfold more bear of Sasquatch when this Sasquatch finally dies, probably lives much longer than a bear or certainly than a deer, what are the odds of finding those remains? But unfortunately we haven't found anything. You know, eventually I think somebody's going to crawl into a cave or a den and find a bone that way. So I see that your book, the cover has been endorsed by Jane Goodall. How did that all occur?

Starting point is 00:43:52 How did that happen? Well, by chance, she happened to have had an interview on NPR and a caller got past the screeners and asked her a question about Sasquatch and she's quite fascinated by the question, has talked to a lot of Native Americans as well as other witnesses. And so I figured, hey, I'll give it a shot and I sent the manuscript coffee to her. It got to her and she had a chance to read it and she was gracious enough to offer an endorsement. And it's been, you know, it's been fantastic. I had a chance to go and to hear her speak at Humboldt State University,

Starting point is 00:44:41 and had a chance to visit with her briefly. So I have a copy of my book with her signature across the front in Silver Sharpie right above her endorsement. Oh that's awesome. It was it really really was gratifying because you know she doesn't endorse the existence of Sasquatch but she endorses the pursuit of the question of whether Sasquatch exists or not. And that was fantastic, yeah. Amongst your peers, how is this subject perceived?

Starting point is 00:45:14 Right. Well, it spans the entire gambit, as you might expect, I guess, you know, scientists are a community of people with their own opinions and biases and prejudices. So I have colleagues who are absolutely enthralled and curious and inquisitive about it. And then on the opposite extreme there are those that are just that have a visceral irrational rejection of it outright just you know this pushback that you were describing so aptly. And so and that whether we're looking at it, the that, the other, that, that, th. that, that, that, thr-all, thr-all, thr-all, thr-all, thr-all, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, thr-a, thi, thi, thi, thiolioliolioli, thr-a, thiolioliolioliolioliolioliolioliolioliolioliolioli, tholi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi, thi. thi, thi. thi, thi, thi. thooooi. thoooi. thoooe, thi, thi. I, you know, this pushback that you were describing so aptly. And so, and that, whether we're looking at the department here that I work in or my university, community, or the entire discipline, you know, in scientific community at large, that same spectrum of reaction has, you know, is in effect.

Starting point is 00:46:07 How important within our, we're in the conspiracy realm. I call spiritual skepticism of the official narrative. We like to investigate the lifeblood of this genre that we live in is amateurs doing just research for the love of just knowledge. And how important is that into your world into Bigfoot? How if someone wanted to get involved, how could they do it? Well, it's very much so. In fact, you know, I'm a strong advocate of what is sometimes called citizen science. That... I like that.

Starting point is 00:46:46 Yeah, yeah. And that was one of the motivations. I actually, I wrote a field guide, and the intent of the field guide was to provide some of that how-to-information. How do I discriminate between a Sasquatch footprint in the bear track, for example, how do I make a footprint cast? How do I document that, or collect that hair? that, that, that, that, that, that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and thi. And, and thi. And, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and throwne, and throwne, and throoooo, and throooooooo, and that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was thi, in the bear track, for example, or how do I make a footprint cast, how do I document that, or collect that hair, what do I do with that scat, etc. And, you know, it's important. As I said, most encounters are by happenstance.

Starting point is 00:47:20 They're by chance. So the prospects of me going out in the field and in 10, I mean, look at my track record. I've been out there for 22 years and I have maybe a half dozen footprint finds and I've heard a few vocalizations. I may have bumped into one, I mean, figuratively bumped into one, had something brush against my tent or or approached camp just outside of the camp firelight. Really? Yeah, yeah. What was that like?

Starting point is 00:47:49 That'd be thrilling. It was, it was, it was, those have been kind of bookends. The one, brushing against the tent was on one of the first expeditions I was on and, you know, that was corroborated by 16-inch footprints. The other, of it was much more recently where we caught a glimpse of something. We caught a glimpse of something. I think we're just about out of time. Yeah. I'm afraid that's my next interview.

Starting point is 00:48:16 Okay. I just want to end on this. Where, where do you go? When is enough is enough? I mean, you're like the Damarino Bigfoot. He went to the Super Bowl, his rookie year, and now it's been a while later, and you thought probably the first time you went out, you got real close, you thought that's going to happen all the time, and now over 22 years, I don't know if you've gotten so close like you get before. When's enough's enough, what's to to to to to to to to to to the to to to to to the to go going to go going to go going to go going to go going to go going to go going to go going to go going to go going to go going. to go going to go going to go going to go going too. too. to be to go going. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the th. thi. thi. too. tooome. tooomeananan. tooomeanananan. tooome. tooome. toooooooooooooo. tooo. too. when, what's it gonna take to go to the next level? What's your thoughts?

Starting point is 00:48:47 I've had, I've had enough ongoing affirmative experiences. I mean, there's been a lot of frustration intermingled, but enough affirmative experience and affirmative data, the footprint evidence, and there still remain things to be done. That until we have a definitive, you know, it's hard to prove something doesn't exist. So that question will continue to linger. So it's it's a matter of of applying more sophisticated technologies like aerial survey, thermal imaging. I'm very excited now about a project we're

Starting point is 00:49:21 starting to formulate where we're going to do a systematic E-DNA, environmental DNA survey where you can take a water sample say from a pond in the forest or a soil sample from a nest or a cave and look at all the DNA that's been contributed by various animals. Interesting. That's interesting. Well the future sounds bright and it sounds like you're a busy man. A lot of people want to know about the Bigfoot. And Dr. Meldrum, I appreciate you coming on. We'd love to do it again down the line and see if anything else has popped up or any other subject you want to talk about. Is there anywhere you want our listeners to go check out of yours? A website, um, books, whatever you want. It gives us a quick pitch. It gives. It's, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th is th is th is th is th is th. th. th is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th is is th is th is th. th is th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the to to the thus. the the thus. thi. the thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. talk about. Is there anywhere you want our listeners to go check out of yours, a website, books, whatever you want. Give us a quick pitch. Sure, the books and field guide, the book, Saswat's Legend Meet Science, is probably the best primer to get started for anyone that's interested in this subject. If you want some of the latest, greatest contributions from various investigators, academic discussion, the relic hominoid inquiry, the R.HI. I I Ih-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I, and th-a-a-I, and th-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-wo-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, th, whatever, th-a-a-a-a-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-couc-c-cooks-wooo-cooks, th-wo-woo-wo-cooks-cooks, th-cooks, th-cooks, th-cooks, the relic hominoid inquiry,

Starting point is 00:50:27 the RHI, and just W, W, W, W.S.U.D.E.U.S.E.I. will take you there. All right, Matt, Welp. You're a busy man. People want to know about the Bigfoot. So we appreciate the time you stayed with us and was able to enlighten our listeners on the whole thing. thing. It's fascinated. tha tha. tha. tha. I the tha. I tha. I the world thi the world the world thi the world the world thi thi. I the world thi. I the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world the world. I'm thi. the world. I'm their their the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thea. thea. thea. tea. toda. today. today. today. today. thea. thea. the. the. the time you stayed with us and was able to enlighten our listeners on the whole thing. It's fascinated. I love it. I think the world's a lot more complicated and everybody believes and I'd much rather believe in that it exists than just shoot it down because I'm scared of changing it up and I appreciate you. Go Idaho State in whatever tournament you guys are trying to win. We appreciate you and we'll see on the side. Thank you everybody th th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for th for thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thing. It thing it thing it thing it thing it thing it thing it thing it thing it thi thi thi thi thi. It thi thi. It thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi guys are trying to win. We appreciate you and we'll see you on the side. Thank you everybody for listening and it's going to be a wonderful week.

Starting point is 00:51:10 So enjoy all the episodes and we'll talk to you soon. Take care everybody. Bye. Thank you. So long.

Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - #184: Bigfoot With Dr. Jeff Meldrum

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