Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - #530: The Non Aggression Principle with Mark Gober

Starting point is 00:00:00 Tinfoil Hap. Oh, what the fuck are you guys who we're talking about? Global controls will have to be imposed. And a world governing body will be created to enforce them. Welcome to Tinfoil Haft. We go deep, home boy. Eric, open your mind. Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. Aaron, open your mind. Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere.

Starting point is 00:00:30 That's some interdimensional mind. Wake up, Aaron. This is only the beginning. There's, you just put my mind. I'm here to get your mind blown. Good! Good! Good! Morning, swarm! Man, welcome to Tim Full Hat.

Starting point is 00:00:50 You know I am, you know what I'm here to do? I'm here to rock. You took my spotlight. You took my spotlight. You totally, you there? It's because Johnny, Johnny, Jame, took me off, he kept going like that for you to go higher and he never does it for me. He never tells me to go harder on the rock. Zoned out hard.

Starting point is 00:01:10 All right, I'll let it slide. That was good. Oh, he's letting it slide. Okay, thank you. Thank you. on the ones that do the man the myth election jay nice johnny wood who more sir more do you say more syrup or sir why you don't why you want more syrup I love syrup I did I do I love maple syrup dude I love kill Michael that's how you get heavy legs for jam that's how you get you get you k you don't make fun of his condition actually fun to

Starting point is 00:01:44 hey dude that's how you get heavy legs that's how you get heavy legs I'll kill for some of you. Don't make fun of his condition, actually, come on, dude. Hey, dude, not cool. That's how you get heavy legs. No, you get heavy legs by having faulty veins, bro in your legs. Genetics. He's got bad gene therapy. To everybody who finally feels like they're part of something, because they have super heavy legs, I just know we understand. We're working on an SHL t-shirts for real is there gonna be a certain weight limit to buy it hey dude dude

Starting point is 00:02:09 to XL and up not cool dude I'm sure there's some well not it's their legs that are heavy yeah dude dude if we're selling socks exegers having a real great day for asking questions today he's been pure fire today maybe we should sell pure fire all day. Maybe we should sell socks, like compression socks or something like, oh damn, bam. There you go. There you go. A little bit of a kind of brand the dollars.

Starting point is 00:02:33 Guys, a lot of great things going on here. We're going to get three episodes this week, man. Okay. You have the Eddie Bravo that just dropped. thrown. th. Everyone th. Everyone th. th. th. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. thi. thi. thoe. toe. toe. tooom. tooom. tooom. too. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. too. tooom. too. too. too. too. too. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. thi. toe. toe. th. th. the. the. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. Wea. too. Wea. toe. Wea. toe. to it. We got Ray Ray from China that just fucking dropped, everyone's demanding that. We put it out because that's who we are. Stop trying to come at me. I'm doing it, okay?

Starting point is 00:02:52 And then finally we got this great one with Mark Gober. Really, I thought it was a fucking great conversation. Nice mix this week. Smart dude. duke. real great talk real great conversation about consciousness Hope you guys enjoy it listen We're about start kicking it off man 2022 live shows in your face the hammer of the gods tour is coming for you okay? I got I got shows in Buffalo this weekend then we're in Eddie Bravo myself these two guys. We're in long beach. Then we're in long beach. Then. We're in long beach. T, then. We're in long beach, the the their, their, their, their, the big. the the the the th, the th, th, th, the th, th, the the th, real. the the the the talk, real. talk, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real. talk, real. talk, real, real. talk, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real. talk, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real, real. talk, real. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tok, real great, real great, real great, real great, real great, real great, real great, real great, tok, real great, real great, tok, real great, talk, real great, real great conversation. the tok, this weekend then we're in that Eddie Bravo myself these two guy we're in Long Beach then we're in Bakersfield okay

Starting point is 00:03:31 that's a 28 29 grab your tickets right now the first show is almost sold out it's standing room only tickets left there in the second show is more than a half sold out and that will be packed as well so grab your tickets now why you can't I gave you a discount in the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. the. the. the. I the. I the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thea. two. two. two. two. two. two. two. two. two. two. two. two. two. two. two. two. th will be packed as well. So grab your tickets now, why you can't. I gave you a discount in the second show. So if you buy both, you're already getting the discount. I'm taking care of you because I love you, okay? Then we go into, uh, then I got tons of show. I mean, I got shows, I got so many shows.

Starting point is 00:03:59 Just go to Sam Triply. dot com check them out please check out the February 19th show with myself Brian Koehl and the first ever conspiracy social club live debate live on stage come join us there two shows we got the debate show then we got stand up comedy then I'm doing at the end of February shit is popping off three day three city tour three days three cities we go New Orleans Nashville and then Georgia what's this picture of you. what's this picture of you. What the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the this is the the this picture. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the conspiracy is is the conspiracy. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. C. the the the the conspiracy. the the the the the the the the the the the conspiracy. conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy conspiracy is is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. this is this is th. this is this is th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theour, three days, three cities. We go New Orleans, Nashville, and then Georgia. What's this picture of you? What is that actually? I love it.

Starting point is 00:04:31 With the hammer, the gods? Yeah. What is that? That's so funny. That's at his house. No, you didn't tak. Why? What's it? You're looking, you're definitely dropping the hammer. I don't know how I feel about you, dude. It's almost like a candid, you know, like you didn't know if you were saying.

Starting point is 00:04:48 Well because the front way you can't see the hammer. So I had to make sure you saw the hammer because it is the hammer of the gods. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, there we go. Bam, dropping hammer of the gods. Yeah, it's all there. Nashville, it goes, it goes, yeah, dude, this calendar needs a little work on my computer. No, no, it looks great over here. Okay, so we got, yeah, we got,

Starting point is 00:05:12 we got New Orleans, Nashville and then Gainesville, or Jefferson, Jefferson, Georgia, go grab those tickets. Tickets are moving quick. I love you all, some, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to, the the tha, tha, tha, their, tha, tha, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho, tho, tho, that, that, thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, th. th. tickets are moving quick I love you all some new jokes some new cities I'm excited to go to New Orleans I don't remember the last time I was in New Orleans so I'm excited to go out there and do a do a show out I like new ones I can't wait to go there probably another city I want to move to that so we'll figure it out so humid you know like to live the hurricanes hurricanes hurricanes to hikik- like to to to to to to to to to to the hurricanes we to to to to to to to to to to to the h I to to to to to the to to the to to to to the to to to to to to to to the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the te. te. te. te. te. te. te. to to to to to to the to the the the the the the the the the to be that hurricanes forget that yeah that's that's the biggest thing is bad bad is hurricanes tea shirts we got any great t-new t-shirts going out come on come on t-shirts go to tiphlat t-shirts dot com they're really purefire right now pure fire we got a new one about to go up we

Starting point is 00:05:59 got the dares the anti vaccine club SIOPS versus everybody I got Tin folio Tim folio I got Tim I got I got I got conspiracies for my bungal it looks just like you they're all there disobey it's a sure great way to support show if you also want a sports show and you're just three episodes are enough how about another what seven episodes a week let's go oh just three episodes are enough. How about another, what, seven episodes a week? Let's go. I mean, YouTube is garbage, bro, it's just garbage. It's all corporate garbage.

Starting point is 00:06:33 Go to Rockfin. That's where the savages roam. That's where all the outlaws are. Rok FIN. That's ROKFIN.comF-I-N dot com. And you can get all my shows there. Tim Foll Hat Premium, Zero, Conspiracy Social Club, first look at Broken Sim, we don't smoke the same.

Starting point is 00:06:56 And the goat if that ever happens again. So just go check that out. Yeah, and then if you want some more free shows, I have so many free shows. Just go to Sam Tripoli.com and you'll see all my free shows. I got Tim Fall Hat, Broken Sim, Cash Daddy says, that is a financial show, Punch Stunk, a sports show, zero, back, you have episodes from the vault of Conspiracy Social Club. Punch drunk, 10 year anniversary next month. Oh really? What day? Yeah. I think the 12th of February would. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to th. th. th. to to th. th. th. th. th. t. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. Sam. tri. Sam. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. t. the vault of conspiracy social club punch drunk ten year anniversary next month oh really what day I think the 12th of February would be 10 years good glad we didn't set anything up for that so and then also the Union You know they wanted I also have a 24-hour radio

Starting point is 00:07:37 station on Sam Tripli dot com now if you want to follow me or just get in the mix I'm not dropping bombs anymore on social media. I'm really not doing it. It's just for fun stuff now. If you want the bombs, bro, you want the bombs, dog? You're looking for the bombs? You go to Timfulhot, only conspiracies telegram and you just got click the banner on Sam Triply dot com.

Starting point is 00:08:01 It will take you right there. . Sam Tripoli dot com, it will take you right there. You're almost to 2000. Almost that 2,000 people. But dude, I'm dropping bombs there all the time. Guess what else I do? If Eddie sends me something, boom, I put it right there on it. So you get the good stuff. Give me to that, good stuff.

Starting point is 00:08:16 That mother. By the way, if you're going to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the to the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tom..... to. to. to. to. to. to. tie. tie. tea. tea. tea. tea.ooomoomoombsoombsoombsoombsoombsoombsoom. tiea. tea. tea a t-shirt. Oh that's in Long Beach. The Wi-Fi, the Wi-Fi won't work, but I'm gonna ask John about the Wi-Fi, make sure it's all set up. All that more! Hala! Dollar dollars! Things are great. This is a great episode. I hope you guys hope you guys enjoy the show we love you very much hope to see in Buffalo enjoy the show go deep home boys open your mind drink drink fun of the try to have this guest on he was one of the original guests on zero and I'm very excited to have this guest on. He was one of the original guests on Zero and I'm very excited to have it on the big show.

Starting point is 00:09:09 Please welcome, he's an author and he has a great podcast. Please welcome, Mark Gover. How are your brother? I'm great, Sam, thanks for having me. It's like Groundhog's day around here. Brother good to have you on, super excited. I thoroughly enjoyed our last conversation. It was really insightful and just really helped in my journey. The last time we talked, we were right in the thick of all this chaos going on, this

Starting point is 00:09:37 COVID, the riding, everything. So it was a really great time to talk to you and I learned a lot from you. So for those who may not be familiar with you and your work, can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and where they can find you? Sure. Well, my background is probably unexpected given that I've now written books on the topic of consciousness and most recently on politics and economics, but went to Princeton undergrad, very mainstream background, went into investment banking in New York during the financial crisis.

Starting point is 00:10:12 So I started in 2008, in the summer of 2008. It was crazy. It was not for me, ultimately, and I decided to leave in 2010, and I worked at a firm that does similar stuff, but advises tech companies. So I moved to Boston, then to leave in 2010 and I worked at a firm that does similar stuff, but advises tech companies. So I moved to Boston, then to Silicon Valley. And this whole time working in the mainstream business world, I thought life had no meaning. I thought that's what I learned. that was the implication of what I learned in school.

Starting point is 00:10:41 And most people around me basically had that perspective. No one in my circles were particularly spiritual, and neither was I. And I was kind of on this treadmill, and I had made it to partner at my firm and was, you know, on that track of just trying to achieve the next thing. In 2016, I was listening to podcasts, and that's how this whole thing started for me. I was listening to a show called Extreme Health Radio at the the the thia thia thia thia thi. thi. thi. th. th. I. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi. I th. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was th. I was to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I'm the. I'm thea. I'm theateateateateateateat thr. I was theat throwneat throwne. I was thr-s, thr-s, thr-s, the. I was listening to podcasts, and that's how this whole thing started for me. I was listening to a show called Extreme Health Radio at the time, I was listening to lots of business and health shows, and that one just came on. And a woman named Laura Powers was invited on the show

Starting point is 00:11:14 and she was talking about her psychic abilities, and all kinds of stuff that I had never really thought about in a serious way, like working with energies, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, with these non-physical beings. And at the end of that episode, she mentioned she had her own podcast called Healing Power. So I said, okay, well, you know, I live in San Francisco, my office is far away in Silicon Valley. I have a long drive.

Starting point is 00:11:36 I'll just turn her podcast on. It's another one to listen to. And she interviewed lots of other people that were describing similar things. And then I started to look at the science behind it and long story short, everything shifted for me in a big way. And ultimately ended up writing my first book a year later called an end to upside down thinking, which was published in 2018. Then I put out my podcast series, which is on similar topics in 2019 called Where Is My Mind? Then I decided to leave my firm in 2019.

Starting point is 00:12:06 It was just what didn't feel aligned and I wanted to be on this path of trying to Understand what we're doing here and why life matters and those sorts of things. So I left wrote my second book and end upside down living, which is on the spiritual Awakening journey and Sam, that's what we talked more about last time and since then wrote a third book given all the craziness th c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c c, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the. to the. the. the. the. the. about last time. And since then, wrote a third book, given all the craziness with COVID and politics, called an end to upside down liberty, which basically combines thinking about politics with thinking about consciousness and why we exist. Perfect. So real quick before we get deep into this, where can they find you after this is done, they want to follow you? Thanks, Sam. My website is my name, Mark Gober.com, M-A-R-K-O-B-E-R dot com. And my books are on Amazon, Kindle, Audible, and hard copies,

Starting point is 00:12:52 and my podcast, Where's My mind is on Apple, podcast, Spotify, and all the major players. Mar, I'm really excited to talk to you because, you know, since since we've we we we we we the the th the th th th th th th th th th th the th thi thi thi the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the to thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the the the thi, the the thi, the the thi, the the the the thi, the the the too, the the the too, the too, too, too, too, to-a, to-a even crazier. And I think you're the perfect person to talk to because I'm really getting into this and I'd love to hear your opinion because you may possess both of these things. I think as I've been in Hollywood, as I've been in Salt Lake Lake, say, I've been in Hollywood. You've been in Silicon Valley and stuff like that. And I've been in Hollywood, you've been in New York and stuff like that. It's very interesting because I've met some of the most intelligent people in my life that seem clueless about how the world works. Right? So it comes down this thing like data or like intelligence versus smarts.

Starting point is 00:13:49 And what is the difference between that? And you know, for me, I've kind of come to see it as like data versus awareness and experience. What are your thoughts on that? Because I don't think that someone who is necessarily intelligent, you know, is a really smart person insightful about like how the world works. And there, you know, and there's some people who might be illiterate that have a perfect understanding of how the world works, how people interact and all that stuff. Do you have any thoughts on that? I've been struggling with this myself, Sam, because a lot of people that stuff. Do you have any thoughts on that? I've been struggling with this myself, Sam, because a lot of people that I know who are very intelligent from a mainstream perspective, I seem to be missing what's happening in the world and I

Starting point is 00:14:36 don't fully understand it. So I have a few theories. One is trust in authority and trust in experts. The belief that, oh, well, this person's really smart and he's on TV saying X, y and Z. And z. And, and Z. And, and Z. And, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, that, that, that, that, that, that that that that that that that, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that, that that, that, that that, that that, that that that that, that that that that that that thatust in experts, the belief that, oh, well, this person's really smart, and he's on TV saying X, Y, and Z, and it's gonna take a lot for me to overcome what that person said because I know how smart that person is. And there's this kind of trust and a lack of maybe discernment sometimes that goes along with this. And thiiii that that th th th th th th th th thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi's thi, thi's thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. ty's, ty's, ty, ty's, ty.i. ty. ty. ty's, ty.i. thi. thi. thi, thi, then it starts to build on itself where you've created a theory based on all the things that you've heard and it takes so much to overcome that. Like for me I had to spend so much time researching to undo everything that I thought I knew.

Starting point is 00:15:14 And I just happened to be in a situation where I could do that. I had the willingness to do that. And I have so many people in my network when to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to so much so much so much to to so much to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to overcome to overcome to overcome to overcome to overcome to overcome to overcome to overcome to to overcome to to to to to to to to to to to to to to overcome to to to overcome to to to to to overcome. to that to to to. to. the. try. the try the the too. too. to to to too. to to to to to to to to to to topics with them. They might say things like, that's really interesting and then go on to the next thing. Or they might say, well, that's really interesting. You might be right, and I don't want to rock my world, so I'm just gonna stick with what I'm doing. And then you kind of end up in a hypnoisis. All right, guys, I wanna t that athletic greens because I wanted a fun way to get my multivitamins and there is no better way than athletic greens. That's right, tasks great, does the work,

Starting point is 00:15:53 makes me feel amped, ready to fight crime, okay? That's what I do. Every time I take athletic greens, I'm like, crime's gonna go down in this neighborhood, okay? That's how I roll, okay? With one delicious scoop of athletic greens you're absorbing 75 high quality vitamins, minerals, whole food source, superfoods, probiotics and aptogens. Okay, yeah, help you start your day right. The special blend of a green sports your gut health, your nervous system, your immune system, your energy, your recovery, your focus and aging. All things!

Starting point is 00:16:30 Holla! Yo boy! Okay? I love to throw a little orange juice, some athletic greens, some fruit in there, and then bang! Bang! Bang! As I do it as I salute the American flag.

Starting point is 00:16:42 And when I finish an eagle lands on my shoulder and we just sing the national anthem. Because I love athletic greens, that's right. It's a lifestyle, okay? And it's a lifestyle friendly. Whether you eat, keto, peto, or keto. Keto, dude, I do keto, you do keto, okay. Paleo, vegan, dairy,free or gluten-free does not matter.

Starting point is 00:17:06 It is all good in the hood with them, okay? Contains less than one gram of sugar, no GMOs, no nasty chemicals, no artificials, okay? Tons of people take some kind of multivitamin, all right? Why not make it the best, the best? Okay? It's important to choose a very high quality, fucking multivitamin with high quality ingredients to get your body rocking, okay?

Starting point is 00:17:32 It costs less than $3,000 a day. You're investing in your health, and it's cheaper than your cold brew habit. Come on, dude. That's like Greenhouse has over five, over 7,000 five-star reviews, man. You know you want it it it it it it th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to want want want want want want want want want want to want it to want to want it's to want it's to want it's to want it's to want it's tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. tooom. too. too. too. too. too. too. toe. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the the the the toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. too. the toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. five-star reviews man. You know you want it. Right now it's time to claim your health and arm your immune system with convenient daily nutrition, especially heading into flu and cold season. It's just one scoop, one scoop and a cup of water every day. That's it. No need for multiple millions of different pills

Starting point is 00:18:04 and supplements. Okay, just one simple scoop bro. So this is what we're gonna do we're gonna make it easy okay. Take it to make it easy athletic green is gonna give you a free one-year supply of immune immune supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athletic greens.com slash tipoil. Again, it's athletic greens.com slash timp oil to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance.

Starting point is 00:18:40 I have friends of mine that, you know, they could write you the greatest script you've ever read in your life. And you're like, this is like pure magic, this script. And then you ask them about like what's happening on a street level, and they're just lost. They don't know the interaction stuff and the interacting between people on a one-on-one basis or, you know, not that the streets is like, the, you know, the barometer in which everything must be, you know, measured, but it's like there's a different way of interacting with people versus in board rooms and offices and corporations. And, you know, it's like, you got to the highest levels of academia, you know, it's like, like, there's no higher level than what you've done. And, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, the, th, the, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th, th. the, the, the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the, the, you know, the, the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the highest levels of academia, you know, it's like, like there's no higher level than what you've done. And, you know, I'll be, so you understand, like for me, it's like,

Starting point is 00:19:31 how early does this start this training going on that you're kind of talking about? I don't know if you want to use the word brainwashing, but the training that goes on and you know, this whole thing that kind that kind that kind that kind that kind that kind that kind that kind thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the whole, thi, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, the whole, th.. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thate. So, thatean. So, thatean. So, too. So, so, so, too. So, so, so, so, so, thate. So, so, so, so it's like the people who followed the rules the best got rewarded in school and those who kind of weren't really interested in that way of operating got punished really hard and you know, and did you see that? And once you got into college in Princeton, it's got to be even more, even higher effect of that in such a competitive place like that.

Starting point is 00:20:09 Yeah, I think brainwashing is a good word. Mind controls another one. And I talk about this in my new book and end upside on liberty. The essentially indoctrination, starting from a young age in the school system where you're trained to think a certain way. And you're also alluding to something that I've found, which is the desire to kind of like, to please people and to follow the rules to make it to the next level, because that's what's required in a lot of, at least what I've seen,

Starting point is 00:20:38 whether it's academia, but also in the organization to make it to get promotions, to make it all the way up to managing director. You have to follow the rules and get along with everyone and not really think outside the box too much. I mean, maybe within deals, you would think outside the box,

Starting point is 00:20:57 but you have to fit a certain mold to get to the high levels. So when you to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to go to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get a, to get a, to get a, to, to, to, to, the to, the to, the to, the the the to, to, to, the to, the to, the the to, the the.... the the the.. the. the the.. the. the.... I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. And, the the the to get. I. I. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. I'ma. And, toe. And, toe. And, toooananananananananananananananananananan w. And, toe. And, toe. And, toe. And, to get to the high levels. So when you go to a place like Princeton, there's a lot of pressure to, at least I experienced it, to like, what's the next thing you're gonna accomplish after you graduate? And a lot of people went into investment banking and consulting. And if you wanna do that, then you have to do certain things. And then there's a lack of meaning and purpose behind all of it, which I think lends, it's easier to follow that path without having a broader sense of why we exist.

Starting point is 00:21:32 Yeah, and I think it's just super interesting how people just, that were such wonderful human beings, maybe when you met them early on their journey. And then at some point, down the you don't recognize these people because they're just twisting and conforming to this narrative that sometimes doesn't even make any sense, you know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, it's just like when I watch Hollywood and like, you know what's being said in Hollywood and and how like detached from reality it is and, you know, it's almost like, you know, what was that? What was that movie about the newscaster, the comedy, Will Farrell?

Starting point is 00:22:17 Anchorman, where he just reads off the screen and they'll say whatever. You see that happening where people are just saying the most ridiculous things to just to kind of throw up this, you know, virtual signaling that they're part of the team and it doesn't even make any logical sense what they're saying, but it doesn't matter because, you know, like you're saying in the corporate world, the same thing in Hollywood, there's so many green lights you have to get to get to this super high level that if you get one red light, you don't get the gig. I mean, do you remember in dope sick when that guy wanna go steal the video cases?

Starting point is 00:22:54 One red light, out fired. If you don't play with their narrative, as in like, hey, you gotta tell, th............... th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to to to the, the, to get a to get, to get, to get, to get one. the, to get one. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th.... th. th. th.. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, to get. to get. to get. to get, toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. the whoop. One red light, you're out. Doesn't matter how much money you've made them. You can prove them like, oh, I made you a million dollars. Like, nope, you're out, you don't play ball no more. And they're so irreplaceable, I mean, you're so replaceable where they don't care. Yeah, I completely agree with that. And they're just going the whole thing is like, if not me, it'd be somebody else, so I might well do it, which I think is a very...

Starting point is 00:23:26 Well, that's also a thing that they used to get you to conform to, though, because they can tell you, hey, it's just gonna, if not you, it's gonna be somebody else, that's, that's gonna be somebody else, that's the numbers in the Army are down, you know, I mean, they're really recruiting their dicks off. Yeah, I mean, and it's, and yeah, and that's a whole different discussion because people are waking up to like how they treat our vets when they come home. And I think people are like, spirituality and stuff like that, you know, I think this is like one the most interesting conversations. It's like science versus spirituality, and we see that

Starting point is 00:24:12 a lot. We see sciancism becoming like the dogma of, you know, these kind of progressives. You know, it's like people can't wait to get into the metaverse, but if you tell them about heaven, they're like, eh, gross, right? But the metaverse is kind of like the super duper woke heaven, right? It's like I can be whatever I want, do whatever I want. Well, it sounds like this like higher paradise. And so my question is like, and maybe we talked about this last time you were on, but I'd love to get your take again is like, things like the laws of physics, right?

Starting point is 00:24:48 Like I think the laws of physics were put in place so we wouldn't believe that there's something magical out there that isn't necessarily something we can measure with science, right? Like momentum, like, I don't know, how would you measure momentum? We all feel momentum, like, the, their, their, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, the momentum, th Like I don't know, how would you measure momentum? We all feel momentum, but like, oh dude, momentum change in this boxing match. It's, but how do you measure that? What are your thoughts on all that, Mark? Well, one of the big challenges we all face is we have ordinary senses, like vision, tasks, tasks, tasks, tasks, toucest, tou tour. And their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, and, and, and, their mauuuu.au.au.au.au.au.au.au.au.au.mau.m. theau. theau. their m.au.au.au.au.a. their m.a. touch, hearing, right? And those are limited. Our sensory organs are limited

Starting point is 00:25:25 in what they can actually perceive. So the stuff that we're talking about once we get into the spiritual dimension, we're talking about things that we're not ordinarily perceiving and we're saying, well, those things exist, even though right now I can't perceive it. I can't even, I can explain it to you in the abstract the abstract the abstract the abstract the abstract the abstract the abstract the abstract the abstract the abstract the and other areas of science are pointing us to that greater reality. And just to summarize the reality that I talk about it in lots of my books, and where I think

Starting point is 00:25:53 science points us is the idea that everything is consciousness. So when I say consciousness, I'm talking about our sense of experiencing life. So right now it's my consciousness that is having this experience. My consciousness listens to my thoughts. And the idea is that to use an analogy from a philosopher, Bernardo Castro, it's like we're in an infinite stream of water where water represents consciousness and each of us is a world pool within that stream. So we have a sense of being an individual but we're interconnected as part of this broader infinite consciousness t stream. So we have a sense of being an individual, but we're interconnected as part of this broader, infinite consciousness together. And that's just an analogy. But when you start talking that way, Sam, it's like most people, it's like they're thinking about what they have to do at work the next day or things with their family. These

Starting point is 00:26:37 are really abstract topics. For me, though, these are the most fundamental topics because they inform what we do in our everyday life. We have to start with why do we even exist and who are we? Yeah, man, these are just some wonderful questions I find so interesting. And then, you know, and we'll get into your research, but just based on a little bit that I've heard from you, I just compare what you're saying and what I'm feeling from you versus like what is pushed in pop culture and mainstream media and I just feel like it couldn't be more opposite those two. What you're saying right now and what what they're basically brainwashing people to believe. I mean just in the last three years like what we've been told, what we've been put

Starting point is 00:27:23 through versus what like people like you are starting to learn. And you know, I'm talking to people like you on my, on this show and other shows, and what they say is like what they've learned about the universe, and it couldn't be more opposite. And then you go, how do you get it that wrong? And it's it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, and it's, thi. thi, thi, thi, I's, I's, I's, I'm, thin, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I, I. I, I. I. I. I, I. I. I. I. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin. th. th. th. th. th. th. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. th. th. th. tha. th done purposefully. Maybe they're doing this so they're, they get us to lower our frequency, our vibration, our connection with others.

Starting point is 00:27:50 And when we don't connect with other, maybe we die on the vine, you know, slowly. So I find it all interesting, man. So let's get into like what basically is the basic question of all of your work so far. Let's get into that. Yeah, so I mentioned consciousness, the sense of experiencing life. And when I first started my research in 2016, listening to those podcasts, I learned about lots of psychic phenomena or phenomena suggesting that when we die, our consciousness continues.

Starting point is 00:28:25 And what I realize about all these different things, whether it's telepathic abilities, near-death experiences, children who remember past lives, they seem like they're somewhat different, even though they're all kind of paranormal sounding. They all relate to this fundamental question of, where does our consciousness come from? And the question, which Science Magazine actually called the number two question remaining

Starting point is 00:28:47 in all of science, and I'll paraphrase it, is how is it that our brain creates consciousness? Why is that such a big question? Because our brain, like our body and the world that we're in, is physical. It's made out of physical stuff that you can toucest. I can't toucestness, but I'm experiencing's that's that's that's theee consciousness, that's the consciousness, that's the consciousness, I'm experiencing it. And if I didn't have consciousness, I wouldn't even be able to ask the question. So this is the big question. It's known as the hard problem of consciousness. How is it that something physical, like a body and a brain,

Starting point is 00:29:13 creates consciousness? Now, embedded within that question is the assumption that consciousness does come from the body, does come from the brain, does come from the physical world. And what I argue is that it's the reverse, and many others argues this too, is that the material world isn't producing consciousness through bodies, through human beings and other living beings, but it's the other way around. The consciousness is fundamental and the physical body is a vessel through which consciousness has an experience. So our identity is not our body, rather it is consciousness. And when this hit th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus thus th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi thi the the is the is the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. has an experience. So our identity is not our body, rather it is consciousness. And when this hit me, I mean, you might imagine where I was coming from.

Starting point is 00:29:49 I thought it was the other way around. When you die, because consciousness comes from the body, I thought, when you die, that's the end of it. So you can try to make meaning in your life, but it's ultimately random and meaningless, and you're thiiii., I I I I I I's, I's, and thi...., I's, I's, I's, and it's, I's, I's, I's, I's, thi, thi, I's, thi, I's, thi, thin. thin. thin. thin. thin, you thi, thi, you're thi, you thi, you thi, you thi, thi, thi, you might, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I th. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thin. thin. thi. thi. thin. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. And then I realized, whoa, there's a lot of evidence suggesting it's the other way around. And I was totally disoriented. I'm probably still adjusting to it. It's just a huge shift. I am, okay, so let's just try.

Starting point is 00:30:13 So because that's some heavy shit you just dropped, right? That's some heavy shit. It's like, so a lot of people believe we are, you, the masses, the masses, the masses, the masses, you know, the masses probably would believe you are your body, right? And what you're saying is that our consciousness is who we are and our bodies are just an expression of that or is it a tool of our consciousness in order to experience this reality? Am I anywhere near that? Yeah, that's how I think about it. Which is, it's so counterintuitive to the way we experience things. And the only way you can actually believe that fully and really internalize it is to accept

Starting point is 00:30:56 the idea, which you're alluding to, Sam, that we sort of know this at some level, and and it's been obstructed. It's been blocked, whether it's through our sensory organs, through brainwashing, through medium manipulation, etc. Our true nature is being obscured. Yeah, man. So, to kind of get what you're saying here, maybe I'm wrong, tell me if this analogy is wrong. It is like, it is what a costume at a Halloween party is to our body, right?

Starting point is 00:31:25 In a weird way, in that it's this presentation, but it's not really who we are in a weird way, right? Like, like our consciousness wears our body as a presentation. Would that be a way of like reincarnation? No, that's not reincarnation. That is, that's a separate issue. What I'm saying is, you're, maybe I'm wrong here, and maybe I'm wrong here, but, it's, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, th, that, th, that, that, th, that, that, th, that, that, th, that, that, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that be a way of like reincarnation? No, that's not reincarnation. That is, that's a separate issue. What I'm saying is you're, maybe I'm wrong here, but consciousness here, this is, uses your body as a presentation of its essence in a weird way. Am I close on that? I'm trying to make this digestible for people like me who Flunkford's great. So it's like this is a presentation of your essence.

Starting point is 00:32:10 Yes, it's a presentation of your essence and a way of having an experience. Like I'm having a different experience because I'm in this body versus you and your body and each person has a different unique experience. And to XG's point, maybe we'll get to this later, there is a, reincarnation is very very very very very very very very very, thii, th. th. this, this, this, th. this, th. this, this, this, thi, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, thi, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, thi. This is, thi. This is, thi. This is, thi. This, thi. This is, thi. thi. thi. thi. this is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is a, is, is, is a, is, is, is a, is a, is, this is, is a, we'll get to this later, there is a, reincarnation is very much possible within this idea, because it's like the consciousness is recycled within this stream and forms a new world pool and has different experiences so that it can learn. So, so, do you think that our consciousness picks our physical form as a way to have to experience its journey through this realm? Big question. There is evidence. So at the University of Virginia, they have a division of

Starting point is 00:33:01 perceptual studies where they've looked at over 2,500 cases of young children who have memories of an alleged previous life. And sometimes the children are, the researchers can verify what the child is describing through historical records. Sometimes the children have birth marks or physical deformities that align with how the person died in the previous life. And in the best cases, the researchers have medical records to verify this. And I mentioned this because in many of the cases that the children describe this previous life, they also talk about an intermission period

Starting point is 00:33:34 between lives. And this also comes up in, I would say, a less scientifically rigorous area of hypnosis. When people go under hypnosis, they talk about this too, that there was a period of before they came into the body and they chose a certain body. In my second book, and to end upside down living, I mentioned someone who was not under hypnosis and as an adult, and he talked about this very same process where it came to him. He had her memory of essentially, he said it was like on an iPhone where you double click and you have multiple screens you can see. He was able to see the potential lives

Starting point is 00:34:05 that he would have with different parents and the learning he would have with those different incarnations. So it's very, it's possible, I can't verify it, but there are many people who talk about this, that there is a choosing before birth, which at some level, it might be choosing where you're actually you as the individual world pool on some levels saying I want to have that learning experience, but I've also heard people, even one woman I interviewed for my podcast, she was saying that it was almost like she was coerced, she remembers before coming into her body where it was like these other

Starting point is 00:34:37 beings were saying, look you got to come into this body, it's going to be tough, so I don't know what's theu...... So, their their. So, their. So, their. So, their, their, to, to, to, their, to, to, the, to, the, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, and, to, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, and, and, and, the, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the......... the, the, the. the.. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the, the. the, the. the. the. the, the. the. the. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the to. to. to. the to. to. the to. the the the the got to do it. So I don't know what's true I think it's all possible but it's even the possibility changes everything right? Yeah you haven't had any weird experiences with your babies whether like looking at some weird things or they say hi to things because they always say kids can see things. Yeah for sure. You've noticed it's don't know, Johnny, you're a nerd dork, right? You, uh, you, you know sci-fi stuff. Like, how early were we having these images of, you know, people picking their avatar? Like, how far back in sci-fi, do we remember that? Because what he's describing sounds like exactly like what the

Starting point is 00:35:27 metaverse is going to be, right? Where you're going to... You first see that in like religion too, right? Like, where you just pick, where you go? And it's like, and the reason... Especially the Eastern religions. The reason I bring that up is because that might be why we have somewhat been corraled into this kind of way of entering the metaverse, right? Like because the because it's how we come here. So that's just a natural way of mimicking that,

Starting point is 00:35:57 because it's what we know, right? The people who make these things and talk, you know, you you talk to Google, Google says they've talked to the old ones before, you know, and whether it's in religion, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thirty, thirty, to to to toea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea.ea. thea, the, to Google, Google says they've talked to the old ones before, you know, and whether it's in religion, whether it's you know Buddhism or how the Zetas, like talking about all this stuff, it's just super interesting man. It's like, is this the metaverse for the universe? Yeah. Do you have a sense, Mark, that there are other, I mean this seems to be, we know, we know that this is one program that the universe seems to be running. Are there other paths that, have you heard about other paths like instead of incarnating, are there other training sims out there, you know, for consciousnesses to take on?

Starting point is 00:36:49 Have you, have you heard of anything like that? It's a great question. I mean, everything that I learned in my research suggests that we live in some kind of a multidimensional reality. So there's one consciousness, but there's like infinite possibility and maybe infinite types of experience. So I would guess there are probably other ways to have this learning experience and us on earth is one way of having the experience but I also find I mean there's a lot of evidence suggesting that there is extraterrestrial intelligence or multi-dimensional intelligence like John

Starting point is 00:37:20 Mac for example a Harvard psychiatrist Pulitzer Prize winner he studied many cases of people that claim they were abducted by these other intelligences, and he concluded that they weren't hallucinations, that they were real experiences. But there are also people, one woman named Dr. Linda Bachman, who does past life regression hypnosis. Again, many people would say this isn't the most scientific. Even the University of Virginia professor, Dr. Ian Stevenson, he said, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, he studied, th, th, he studied, th, he studied, he studied, thed, he studied, thed, he studied, thu, the, the, the, he studied thed, he studied thed, he studied thed, he studied thu, he studied thu, he studied thu, he studied thu, he studied thu, he studied thu, thu, thu, thu, thuthe University of Virginia professor, Dr. Ian Stevenson, he said there were some cases that he couldn't explain under hypnosis, even though he tried to dismiss the whole thing. So maybe we can learn something. And I mentioned that because this is a woman

Starting point is 00:37:53 who was a traditional psychologist and then started to do hypnoosis and taking people to pass lives. And she said spontaneously, thi, and to to to to to to to to they, and they, and they, and they, and they, they, they, thi, thi, they, thi, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, the thi, their, thi, the thi, thi, they, they, they, they, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi., try, try, try, try, try, try, try, try, try, try, try, thi, thi, thi, thi,to pass lives. And she said spontaneously, many people described previous lives on other planets. Like independently, and she wasn't an alien type person. She wrote a book about this. And there are many reports of this as well. Like, Mary Rodwell talks about children that have memories of being on other planets. I mentioned all this, Johnny, because it gets your question of are there other places where we could have a learning experience? Like is it just the human body? I would say there's probably infinite possibilities of the way that consciousness can have a learning

Starting point is 00:38:26 experience through different types of vessels. Interesting. Now have you, I know that religion, especially Eastern religions, have a, you know, a sense of leveling up to use a modern phrase. Is that something in your research that you've seen from actual reports, or is that something that's mostly confined to religious experience? It seems that is the case that we are we're trying to get to the next level almost like a video game or something that we're trying to improve our consciousness that's the top priority of life actually at least that's what my research is telling teaching me that we're here to to try to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get to get the to get the to get the to get the to get to get to get to get to to to to to to to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the me, that we're here to try to get

Starting point is 00:39:06 to the stages of enlightenment. That's what some would call it. In religious traditions talk about it in different ways. So we're trying to level up and improve. And actually there's a phenomenon in the near-death experience called their life. So the near-death experience is where a person, let's say they have have have have have they have thia have they have they have thia have thia have thia have thia have thia have thia have their thia have thia have thia have thia have their, thia have a thi, thi, the, the, the, theate, thi, thi, theateate, the, the, the, the, the, thi. the. the. thea, theat, theat, the the theat, the theal, theal, theal, theal, theal, theal, theal, theal, theal, theal, thea, thea, thea, tha. tha. tha. tha. tha. thauu. thau. thau. thau. thau. thau. thau. thau. thau. thaea, they're clinically dead or they have some kind of trauma to their body where their brain shouldn't be capable of producing memories or clear cognition or clear senses. And yet when the person comes back, sometimes they say, oh, I was hovering over my body and I saw X, Y, and Z and the doctor and the other people in the room say that's accurate. So those are called veritical out-of-body experiences, meaning what they experienced was verified,

Starting point is 00:39:46 meaning it's not a hallucination. And I preface that before talking about the life review, because the life review might not be a hallucination. And the life review is where people relive their lives in a flash. This is during the near-death experience, so their bodies out of it. And they relive events also not only through their own eyes, but through the eyes of people that they impacted So for my podcast, where's my mind? I interviewed Daniel Brinkley Who's had four near-death experiences for whoa? Wow

Starting point is 00:40:13 So I questioned how I question how he's living his life. Yeah, what do you do him bro? He was struck by lightning open heart surgery twice, and brain surgery. When I interviewed him, he had just had his fourth near-death experience. I knew about three before I interviewed him and he goes, well, I was just had another one. But each time he had a near-death experience, he had a life review that he was able to remember. Not everyone does. So Dr. Bruce Grayson from the University of Virginia finds that roughly 25% of the cases he studied, people have a life review that they remember. We don't know why that is, but in any case, Danion talked about reliving his combat days in Vietnam, and he told me he was vicious in combat. So he had to relive the deaths of the people that he

Starting point is 00:40:58 killed in combat through their eyes. And he also said that he felt the pain of the children that would no longer have a father because he had killed the father, even though he said it wasn't quite as strong. So he felt the indirect effects. Now this is pointing, this is like a direct experience of one consciousness. Somehow, when consciousness is liberated from the brain, the brain actually limits our experience, I think. When it's liberated from the brain, it's able to like switch lenses and live through different world pools outside of space and time or something. And he comes back into his body. He became much less materialistic like many other experiencers. He also became a hospice volunteer. So in his later life reviews, which at the time he didn't know he was going to have.

Starting point is 00:41:39 Each time he made a life review, he started from the beginning of his life and in his later life reviews he got to be the person at the bedside who was dying while he was comforting that person and he got to feel the goodness of that. So what people say coming back from the life review, whether standing brinkly or many other people, they say the little things are the big things in life. That's what you care about in your own life review. So it's what that's what that's kind of car you drive or how much money you have. It is how you treated people. So there's another example of a woman or someone who treated someone poorly, the cashier poorly in line. And then in the life review experienced what it was like to be all the other people in line because that person had been mistreated and was in a worse mood. Oh man. We're just like, oh dude.

Starting point is 00:42:26 Sounds like it's going to take a long time. Oh man, I'm like, oh dude, that was not nice of that cashier that one day. Dude, but this is so interesting, man. And this is like, this is why I started zero were for these conversations because I think these are the most important conversations. And you know, and th. And th. And th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th. that that that that that that's that's that's thi thi thi that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's is thi, it is like, it's is like, it's is like, it's is th. It is th. It is th. It's is th. It is th. It's is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that's th. th. th. that's th. th. the. th. th. that's the. that's that's that's thi. It's that's thi is thi is thi is thi is thi isthese are the most important conversations. And you know and and this is the conversations that give me hope to everything going on. I don't know who the elites are. I don't know like are they you know here we're getting to the more craziness. Are they low frequency entities? If they make deals with you know Arcon's or whatever the conversation is. I don't know but you know, Arcons or whatever the conversation is?

Starting point is 00:43:05 I don't know, but you know, when I hear these stories, I go, you know, these people, whoever they are and whatever they represent, aren't bigger than the universe. And that's my goddonnais belief, man. And it's just like they can do whatever they want for as long as they, they're not bigger than the universe. No matter how powerful they are. Klaus Schwab could be the most powerful man on the planet or he's just below whoever that is. And they're still not bigger than the universe. Can we ask about them real quick? Those dark, is there any sense of incentive, like what the incentives are for those people who have what we would term as you know dark motives and and and are

Starting point is 00:43:45 you know spreading pain in their lifetimes? Well it's clear they don't have the same incentive structure right? Yeah or yeah they've somehow been manipulated that's what it seems to me that if if the near-death experience cases are true and also what people describe in psychedelics like DMT or meditation and lighenement experiences everyone says oneness and unconditional love. That's the nature of reality. Whether we feel that every day or not, that's the base level of the one consciousness.

Starting point is 00:44:12 But that's, so the paradox here, this is what's really hard to grasp, is that at some level there's no individual. Like I don't exist, none of us exist individually, because there's only one consciousness. At another level, we are individuals. So they're both true at the same time. That's the paradox. Now I want to get to what you're asking, which is basically like how does, how do we explain evil?

Starting point is 00:44:33 And so to me, evil is the obstruction of the light, the obstruction of the light, happens, maybe it's through manipulation or it can be through like temptation. I'm reminded of a story, one of my favorite spiritual teachers, David Hawkins. It sounds like he reached very high levels of enlightenment if you compare his experience to many others. And he said when he was reaching the super high states, this basically a voice came to him and was like you transcended all of your personal karma, so all power is yours. You can have power over everyone, take it. And he was like, wait a second, I am everything, so I don't need power over others. I'm going to reject this. And he calls it the luciferic temptation. He claims he was shown the beings that didn't take the temptation and the beings that did take it. And what happened to the people that took the temptation is basically they had a karmic fall where they had to start all the way at the beginning. So it's almost like we're being tested each individually and maybe some people

Starting point is 00:45:28 are taking the bait, but they're learning through that and also we're learning through their evil. And this is a really tough concept that I've been trying to grapple with is like even the most evil stuff we can imagine. It is evil and at the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. the most evil. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. te. tee. tee. teeee. tee. te. te. te. te. te. te. I think as a planet that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to transcend all that. Dude, it's very interesting. I also have this theory that some of these, whatever this is man, it is a very high end production, right? Like it's a high end. HBO Good. But like, no, dude, we're talking like Apple TV Good.

Starting point is 00:46:05 Right? And, um, within that production, there, there are, I think, actors, you know, I often say, I feel like this thing is like a haunted house. Like Westworld? Yeah, like, yeah, like, there are things here that are here to interact with us and in a weird way manipulate us one way or the other to have an experience while we're here. You know, which gets us in the consciousness. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Starting point is 00:46:40 I think it's part of our evolutionary process is to have his learning experience and everyone is sort of playing a role. But in that, within that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, to interact, thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi.i. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi I think it's part of our evolutionary process is to have his learning experience and everyone is sort of playing a role. But within that role that I think karma based on the near-death experience and children with past lives, karma is a very reasonable idea. So for the people that are doing evil, that are that are doing things that are contrary to unconditional love, it can't be good for their individual karma, but at the grand level, we are somehow learning something from that. I totally believe that, man. I think it explains who these people are, what they're doing, which brings us to our next question.

Starting point is 00:47:17 If we're talking consciousness, that means an awareness, right? Do you think there's people in this reality that might not have consciousness, that might be what they called MPCs? That are just here to add texture to the haunted house? The short answer is I don't know, but to me, the whole universe at some level is consciousness. There is only consciousness, and consciousness is having experiences through physical stuff. And a human body is one example of it.

Starting point is 00:47:52 And I think that biological creatures have some kind of a tuning mechanism, almost like an antenna that we're tapping into that intelligence in ways that maybe like a machine and artificial intelligence isn't. And even like a man named Federico Fajin, who invented the microprocessor from Intel, so he's a big artificial intelligence guy and he talks about this from the level of consciousness because he had a huge awakening himself, where he felt the oneness, I wrote about this in my new book, unbelievable case where he felt the oneness. He talks about consciousness and how machines won't be able to create new consciousness.

Starting point is 00:48:27 Whereas a human being is like a vessel for it. There might be machines that are not vessels in the same way. So, you know, I don't know Sam, it's possible at this point. I feel like I don't know anything, so I'm open-minded. That's the best place to be. You're like, I don't know anything. know anything so I'm open-minded. That's the best place to be you're like I don't know anything dude it's the best. So we're getting into consciousness here like where do you think it it consciousness resides? Like is it our heart? Is it our mind? Is it like just floating in this body like? Like where do you think it is? I mean that to sound kind of dumb I know sounds to laugh at this. Does it does it does it when you die does it weigh anything I've seen people try to weigh a body

Starting point is 00:49:08 and be like oh it's spirit left it weighs it's wait wait wait wait you saw people weighing a body like in a video yeah yeah he watches YouTube yeah YouTube video probably it's like some weird Mexican shit it weighs like something. It weighs like something pounds yeah it's like 21 grams yeah yeah that part of this consciousness consciousness pounds. Yeah, it's like 21 grams. Yeah, those experiments. Yeah, quote-unquote experiments. Is that part of this consciousness? Consciousness? I've heard that about that too. I don't know if it has a weight to it, but I've like I haven't seen studies on that, although I've heard many people say that there is some kind of a weight that leaves the body. It's interesting. So where do you think consciousness resides? Is it an energy? Is

Starting point is 00:49:48 it? Is it just stillness? Like, like, is it your brain? Is it your heart? Is it in your throat? Is it in your chakras? Like, where would you say this is? It's a great question. So I've spent a lot of time looking at the brain because we, like I didn't even know it was a question that whether the brain is what creates consciousness. I thought of course the brain does, because we know from neuroscience, like when you change parts of the brain,

Starting point is 00:50:14 like let's say someone gets in a car accident, we can point to Dr. Castro, the philosopher again, so if you have a fire, firefighters show up to put out the fire. You have a larger fire, more firefighters show up. Do we say that the firefighters cause the fire? Yeah. No, no. It can be the other way around. So I've spent a lot of time looking at this inverse, that the brain is a filtering mechanism. So when you look at the near-death experience, for example, you cut out the brain, people have an enriched consciousness. Sometimes they talk about omnidirectional 360-degree vision,

Starting point is 00:50:55 including people who have been blind since birth, there's a book called MindSight. And they have near-death experiences and report being able to see. So there's something about knocking the brain out that gets people into this heightened state. But I would say I wouldn't end at the brain because there are cases of organ transplant donations where the person allegedly who gets the new organ has memories of the other person that they got the organ from. And there's one case I thi the the the the the the thak the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their is their is the brain the brain their is the brain the brain the brain the brain the brain the brain the brain. There's is. There's is. There's is. There's is. There's is. Is. Is. Is. Is. There's is is the brain. Is. Is. There's is is is is is is the brain is is the brain is the brain is is is the brain is the brain is their is their is. There's is. There's is. There's is. There's is. There's is. There's there's their is. There's their is. There's their is. There's their case. There's their is. There's their. There's their. There's their. There's their case. There's their case. It's their their case. It's their case. It's the person allegedly who gets the new organ has memories of the other person that they got the organ from. And there's one case I talk about

Starting point is 00:51:29 in my first book and end upside down thinking, which goes through all these paranormal phenomena and the scientific evidence for them. Dr. Paul Piersall talks about this case of a little girl, who received, I believe it was a heart, and she started having nightmares of being murdered. And it got so vivid to the point they brought her to a psychiatrist. And they're like, wait a second, this is actually a real murder she's describing.

Starting point is 00:51:51 So allegedly, according to this case, they were able to figure out who the murderer was of the person that she got the heart from. No. What? What? That's wild, that's some crazy shit. And there are other cases too of people's personalities changing based on the organ they received. So back to your question, Sam, where does consciousness reside? So there's something about our biology that's picking it up in different ways. Oh my god, that's so.

Starting point is 00:52:16 My homie just got some surgery on his shoulder. He got a graph from one of a dead guy, all of a sudden he says he can play basketball better. I was like bullshit but the guy was an athlete because they give you a pamphlet yeah they give you a pamphlet of like who the guy was you got to thank him you know the family just wants to say thank you for his graph bone or whatever and this guy claims he plays better basketball he is shooting some three but I was like bro I wouldn't doubt it man man. I mean, I would not, like, listen. Don't let LeBron find out about this. Yeah, it's gonna be like.

Starting point is 00:52:50 Like, it's so, it's like we say it, this, it's this, wherever we are, so much more interesting and complex and amazing. Well, one of the most disturbing experiments that I've seen in this consciousness realm is these people who have the corpus callosum sever. Are you familiar with these stories of split brains? You know, people who have severe epilepsy, one of the only remedies for that is to just split the brain down the middle to separate the two hemispheres of the brain. And these people have, half of their body can operate almost independent of the other half. Like, you know, they're here, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, their, their, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, are, the stories, the stories, the stories, the stories, the stories, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, are, their, are, are, their stories, are, are, are, are, their stories, are, their, their, their body can operate almost independent of the other half.

Starting point is 00:53:26 Like, you know, they hear people like pulling their pants down, you know, to take a shit or whatever, and the other half pulling their pants back up. Oh my God. I mean, it's almost like it being in odds. Now, those are extreme cases. Right. The most, the study that you see about it, you know, the the image of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, people, the, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, people, people, people, like, like, people, people, like, like, like, the, people, the, people, the, the, people, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they.e, they.e, they.e.e.e.a, people, people, people, people, people, they.e.e. they. they. their, people, people, people, people, people, people, their only the left eye and then ask the guy to draw it, you know, the part of the brain that is actually conscious and speaking to draw and he won't be able to draw it, you know, but then they show the image of the other eye and then he can draw it with his left hand, but he can't say it, you know what I'm saying? Isn't that, I mean, it's just, to me, that's to me, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it really. What do you think about that? That's... Yeah, there's so much that we don't know and that's why I think in anything, whether it's looking at the world or looking at why we exist, we

Starting point is 00:54:11 have to be really humble and say we actually don't know that many things. I'll give a few other examples of these weird brain cases. Savant's syndrome. So like the movie rain mann't the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin's thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thi's their, thin, their thin, thi's thi's thi's thi, thi Dustin Hoffman played. Unbelievable memory. Savants have mathematical abilities, sometimes musical abilities that are so outrageous. And typically it's associated with some kind of impairment to the brain. Like, so, and they might have impairments in other aspects of their life. So we had this pattern of,

Starting point is 00:54:39 the brain is impaired in some way, and the consciousness is enriched. We see that with the near-death experience. Also, we see that with psychedelic research, which is still ongoing, but sometimes there are reductions in brain functioning associated with the heightened reality of the psychedelic trip. Another case is terminal lucidity patients. These are people like someone who has Alzheimer's disease. Nearing death might be within hours or days of death, all the sudden snaps back into clarity,

Starting point is 00:55:05 like totally normal memories back to normal. But how is that possible if their brain is impaired, right? So something's going on that we don't get. Like they can remember everything like who their son, who their son was again, when they were born, what car they had their first time? Apparently, they start they start they start they start they start they start they start they start..... They start. They start. They start. They start. T, they start. T, they start. T, they start. T, they start. T, they start. T, they start. T, they start. they start they start they start they start they start they start they start they start having. they start having. they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they're... they're. they're. they're. they're. they're. they're they're they're they're they're they're th. th. the. that. that. that. that. that. theee. theee. theat. thee. theeat. the. the. the. they're like, whoa, what's going on here? Yeah, we've had Alzheimer's. Yeah, we've had guests on come on and talk about that. About, you know, their father couldn't talk for months and then right before the end,

Starting point is 00:55:34 they were just fully having conversation about what they had experienced, which was a near death experience. So when Dana's sister passed away, she would go see her all the time at her, you know, at the, I wouldn't say it was a hospice, I guess, but she would go see her and she would be out and then out of nowhere one time, she just gets up and goes, who are all these people in the room? And it was just her and Dana that were the only ones there. And I was just like, that fits everything I've heard. That's it fit.

Starting point is 00:56:09 Everything I've heard. But you know, but we said some really interesting stuff and it's like, so is it kind of believe that the brain is the filter in which we must interact with this reality, the consciousness must interact with the reality of where we live, this, what, what, what, the realm, or that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, and that, that, and that, that, and that, that, and it, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, the consciousness must interact with the reality of where we live, this realm or whatever we want to call it? It seems to play a very important role in it. Whether there are other parts of the body that play a role to, I don't know. Maybe our whole body's a tuner,

Starting point is 00:56:39 but the brain is a huge part of it. And the way I think about it is like if you can can can can can to an antenna, which isn't precise, but it's somewhat of an analogy. It's almost like right now we're tuned into a certain TV station, and the antenna could tune into a different station and we'll be having a different experience, maybe a multi-dimensional experience somewhere else. But the brain is tuning us into certain frequency, I guess, where we experience earth at this place and time. So, so is it possible? And there's no, I don't know if you could answer this, but I feel like it's an interesting question. Is it possible that our brains were created by whoever, whatever created this thing that we live in, to make it so we can't totally unlock all the secrets of the universe purpose

Starting point is 00:57:27 purposefully so that we can enjoy this situation, right? Like, you know, it's almost like the old saying ignorance is bliss, right? It's like, you know, it's like, I used to have a joke about that. We're like, I'm not super smart but I'm just I'm not dumb enough to enjoy everything too right like you jazz a little bit of intelligence that I understand what's going on no man's land instead of just being like dumb enough to be like wrestle man like wrestle man like to be like a wrestle man like you listen to wrestle man you like pro wrestling

Starting point is 00:58:02 radiol and just be like this is my jam you know nothing against people like that but there is just a bit like like like like like the enjoy like the enjoy like the enjoy the enjoy the enjoy the enjoy the enjoy the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to enjoy. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. th is my jam. You know nothing against people like that but there is just a bit like the enjoy the simple things. Or when they used to tell you you only use 10% of your brain? Yeah, remember that saying when it's like oh it's only 10% of your brain you got to unleash it and you like. Yeah, that's an end. How would theythink that's amazing. What are your thoughts on that? It is. Yeah. The short answer is I'm not sure. I mean, as you were talking to Sam, you reminded me of some of what I've read in Nostic texts like the Naghamadi scriptures, which were found in 1945 in Egypt in a jar. So these are from like fourth century ADD or so. And the scripturres generally talked about a dark force that was suppressing humanity. And there there's a quote that has stuck with me in one of the scriptures called the nature

Starting point is 00:58:47 of the rulers. And it said that the rulers kept, I'm paraphrasing here, the rulers kept humanity in a state of confusion and a life of toil so that they would be preoccupied with the things of the world and not have time to be occupied with the holy spirit, which is suggest, the thia, thia, thia, thia, thia, thui, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr-a, thi, thi, thi, and, and, and, and, and, and, th. th. th. thi, and, and, and, and, I, I, th............ So, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, thi. thi. So, thi. So, I, I, thr. So, I'm, I'm, t. So, I'm ttau. And, I'm toda. thea. thau. And, I'm thau-a. And, I'm thau-a. And, I'm the t be occupied with the Holy Spirit, which is suggestive of a basically mind control. Now that's not exactly what you're asking Sam is like you're asking biologically, have we been tweaked so that we don't have access to the broader reality? Maybe. The other side of it is, are we blocked? Is this filter in place so that we can have learning experiences better? It's sort of like if you took a test and had all the answers to the test, you wouldn't learn the same way.

Starting point is 00:59:27 So maybe the brain is purposely there and we have this amnesia of forgetting everything about ourselves so that we can learn better. Yeah, and not like cheat, because we already know all the answers, right? And like to just have to go through tho tho here for this experience. Do you think some people have a cheat code? I think there's probably some people that figured it out or just for some reason we're able to connect with past experience, past lives, past answers.

Starting point is 00:59:57 It's like when a kid is like, I'm four, I know piano. You're like, what? Maybe in a past life life he just dominated piano. But why would you pick that? See that's what I mean those things. But maybe it just. It was his favorite thing. It's just the only thing that stuck with him.

Starting point is 01:00:12 You know, man, maybe along the way, nothing is always perfect all the time. And someone gets a weird filter and it just this things get through. But you know going th go th go th go tho tho tho tho tho tho tho th. th. tho th. th. th. the th. thi th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's just, that's just, th. thi. th. th. th. th. th. It's. th. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. th. It's. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the the. the the th. the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th. the. th. th. th. th. things get through. But you know going back to this jar, one more time tell me the book that you were talking about because I find this so interesting. Yeah, it's called the Nag Hamadi Scripture and it's a collection of writings. And in the introduction of the book that contains the scriptures that I have, the researcher talks about how, I believe his name is Robinson. He talks about how these scriptures were left out of the New Testament. I don't know if that's true, but that makes me more interested. Why were they hidden in a jar like that? Is there some reality to it?

Starting point is 01:00:56 Or at the same time, you never know what these writings, is there a purposeful manipulation? Are there untrue stories in there just to confuse us? So, so what talking about right now is something that I recently talked to my good friend Brian Callan on our other podcast about. It was about how I was watching this doc on Showtime called the Four Kings. It's about boxing, Sugar Ray Leonard, that whole era of all those great boxers. And what they did in this thing, they were talking about what was going on, boxing, and juxtaposed it against the political times that were going on at the same time. And what they're talking about in the political atmosphere that they were talking about at the time, which was the 80s, right, is high gas prices, inflation, a president no one has thi thi thi that that that that that that that that that has has that has that has that has that has that has that has that has that has that has that that that that that that the time, which was the 80s, right, is high gas prices, inflation, a

Starting point is 01:01:48 president no one has faith in, drug problems, family problems, racial strife. Ma'am, what does that sound like? Exactly right now. It's the exact same thing. So when you tell me these scriptures are like, the elites keep us confused so we can't connect with God. It just sounds like exactly what's going on right now. And how these, whoever they are, whatever they are, just keep using the same game plan over and over and over again. Yeah, it's possible. I mean, so to me, I've been asking that question so much because, like in my first

Starting point is 01:02:23 look in my podcast, I have all the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific the scientific th've been asking that question so much because like in my first book in my podcast, I have all the scientific evidence in one place of not just the children with past life memories or the near-death experience. I'm talking like six sigma statistical results of psychic abilities and that means the odds against chance are more than a billion to one. That's from Dr. Dean Radin, peer-reviewed science, all this stuff. And I'm thinking, like, how could it be that I don't know about any of this stuff? And there are really smart scientists out there who will say, there's no evidence for this.

Starting point is 01:02:50 And you look in the media or Wikipedia and they say it's all pseudos to sotiazine. So one of the explanations is, well, people just, they have a resistance to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to totheir egos to be hurt. So let's say you're a PhD and you spent your whole career doing the opposite of this, and these studies would challenge their theories and therefore they're going to push back against it. I think that might be part of it, but like what you're alluding to, Sam, is that there might be a darker, larger force here that's actually try and suppress the tryk........ I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I the knowledge. I to the knowledge. I's the knowledge. I's to the knowledge. I's the knowledge. I's the knowledge. I's the knowledge. I's the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their their their their theories. theories. theories. theories. theories. their theories. their theories. their their their their their their their that's to keep us disconnected from source from God, whatever the term you have for the higher power, 100% you know, and it's just sometimes you get into this thing where it's like you want to believe all this stuff just went wrong and it's like very hard to digest and then you go,

Starting point is 01:03:40 well what if it's that it's done purposeful And it's really amazing how the pieces of the puzzle seem to click a little easier that way. And it just, it gets, it gets real hard to go, are there people, psychopaths out there that are purposefully trying to lower your frequency and not connect you with God? I mean, so much of organized religion is just like these people put in positions and they're flawed because they're not God, they're human beings, and like what does that do to your belief in the universe in God? Well, it makes you have a little less belief in them. Well, because that wasn't God. That was a man who said he represented or a woman who said they represented God. But you know, to the masses, that just starts to erode the connection with God. And I think, thiiiii th I I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, and I thi, and I thi, and I thi, and I thi, and I thi, and I thi, and I thi, and I thi, thi, and I thi, and I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. And, th. And, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, thri, throooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And, the, the masses that just starts to erode the connection with God and I think that becomes so much of what we're doing and like what has organized religion really done to our connection with God.

Starting point is 01:04:33 Now that doesn't mean all or everyone who practices organized religion is doing it for bad reasons, nefarious reasons or anything like that. No that just mean but the powers that be are you know know, it's like if we look at like how they control politicians through, you know, these unsavory actions they take that they blackmail people with, right? And make us lose faith in our leaders. Why wouldn't they do that religion? Why wouldn't they, this thing that's so important to you, which is this connection with your source, now all these people that's kind of been, you've been made to believe in the middleman. Now these people are really

Starting point is 01:05:16 flawed and you could even say hypocritical and liars. What does that do? Well, they'll lose faith, right? You just don't want believe in God. And you start getting in this place where it's like, oh, God can't be real, all these bad things are happening. So I'm just going to believe that in nothingness. And it's just easier because how do you challenge that, right? Yeah. Well, to me, there's two pathways of manipulation. One is the more atheistic path, which is the one that I was on, which is everything's random and meaningless, and that's what science teaches us. You can try to create meaning, but you're just rationalizing. The other is religion, which at the core of the religions that I've looked at at least,

Starting point is 01:05:54 they all talk about this one consciousness that we're all a part of. So I think there is a lot of truth tru tru truth tru tru tru tru tru tru tru, but there is also likely manipulation within religions and people who are using it for power or money or other things. And that can take people away from the spiritual path too. 100% so you know you get into your book and the end to the upside down liberty. You talk about the dangers of government.

Starting point is 01:06:21 What can we get into a little bit of that? Yeah. Well, if we think about the life review from the the the the th., th th th for th. th for th. th for th for th for th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi thi, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi. And, thi, thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, thi, thi, and thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, and thi, thi, thin, and thin, thin, thi. thi. thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, get into a little bit of that? Yeah. Well, if we think about the life review from the near-death experience, this idea of there's a universal principle where we should try to move towards treating people well because we're all interconnected, moving toward unconditional love rather than away from it. There's a political principle that I talk about a lot in the book that many others talk about, which relates to this. It's known as the non-aggression principle, which is you don't initiate aggression against anyone's private property or their body, and if someone

Starting point is 01:06:55 does it to you, you have a right to self-defense. And so to me, that it's a very simple principle, and it aligns with spirituality completely. The problem is that that, that, that, that, that, that, that, it, it, it, it's that, it's that, it's that, it's that, it's that, it's that, it's thiii, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it's thi, it's the the the the the their their their their their, it's their, it's their, it's the the the the the the the the the the the the non, it's the non, it's the non, it's the non, i, i, i, i, i, i, is their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thi, is that the way we do government around the world is contrary to that. It violates the non-aggression principle constantly. And why is that? The way I like to think about it is the government provides services, the government provides services. No matter what country you're in. So whether it's military, police, road servicing, courts, the government provides services. But there are lots of other service providers in society.

Starting point is 01:07:27 Like I had clients that I serve. They're all over the place. But government has special privileges. Like typically with a service provider that you're signing up for, you're hiring and you're the customer. You have a contract that you agree on mutually that explains what the service providers' obligations are. what happens if it fails to fulfill those obligations, how you can terminate, what the pricing structure

Starting point is 01:07:50 is going to be, all these things. We don't have that with government. We don't have that with this implied consent. And the problem is that means if we're not fully voluntary and what we're doing with our interactions with the government, even th we might agree sometimes. Other times we might say, I don't want to do that. That violates my morality. You're forced to do it. And so to me, that violates spiritual principles. And in short, what I'm arguing is for voluntarism is the term,

Starting point is 01:08:11 to make everything into a true service provider where people are voluntarily interacting. I totally agree man, this is not about money, this is not about power because they have all the money and all the power. It's impossible. This is about spiritual war. And this is really about breaking your spirits, lowering your frequency, making you dumb, making you sick, making you unhealthy. These are all done to lower your frequency, man.

Starting point is 01:08:40 And just it's part of this journey that we're in. And it's really sad that we've had this mass psychosis, this mass hypnosis where people, like, they trust people they see on the television over their loved ones, their friends, their families, their co-workers. And it's just like, you know, I made these rules of the Ronin and it's like one of the rules is that you man, you don't, you don't defend anybody you don't personally know or any action you didn't personally take a part of. You know, it's like, that really get you out of a lot of personal, a lot of arguing with people you love. I can't tell you how many people I know is like, I don't tell you to my family anymore because of politics. I'm, th. I'm, th. I, th. I, th. I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. I th. tho, th. thi, the the thi, thi, the the the the their their their their the their, you don't the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, you don't their, you don't their, you don't their, you don't their, their, their, their, their, their their their their their their th. You don't, tho, tho, tho. You don't tho. tho. tho. tho. You don't tho. the. the. the. they. You don't th. You don't know is like I don't talk to my family anymore because of politics. I'm like you're letting them win. That's the whole point. Like you know I don't want to get too much into politics because I really love this conversation. But you know I have a best friend who just is like he thinks January 6 was 9-11. Like and I, when he basically said that to me, I had to make a conscious decision, do I want this guy in my life, or do I want to get a big, freaking fight with him over something that's

Starting point is 01:09:51 not going to change the actual events that day. And I said, you know, I love this guy. He's been my friend for 20 years. I'm not going to get an argument with him. Let him believe what he wants don't agree on that one thing. The challenge right now is we have people living in different realities essentially based on the media that they watch completely different realities trying to coexist so it's like you almost can't leave politics out of

Starting point is 01:10:21 everything out of your conversations because unless you're like talking on different levels you can't even relate on certain topics Mark how did how what so this this meme comes out Which shows that Joe Rogan by himself almost gets as much as the top eight??? legacy? their? tough? their? top eight? legacy media outlets? So? So if we see this is happening, right, like there reaches less, can you explain how it still seems with a collection of 11 million viewers, let's say if these numbers are correct, right? Maybe 11 million viewers listen to all of the legacy media on cable news together, right? How are they having such a grip on 370 million people that live in this country, if that's even the real number? You know, like, how, how is that, I'm trying to figure out how this is happening? Yeah, me too. The mind control is really strong. It takes a lot to overcome it. It takes energy, it takes energy, it takes takes takes takes takes takes takes takes takes takes takes takes takes takes takes takes te.. It takes takes takes takes takes te. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe. toe. toe. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. is really strong. It takes a lot to overcome

Starting point is 01:11:26 it. It takes energy, it takes effort, and it also takes a willingness to blow up your paradigm about how you look at the world. I mean, for a lot of people to accept that we're being deceived constantly by the media, by our governments, that our government is more like a predator than a protector, naturally. Like these are ideas that totly, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, thi, and thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, is thi, is thi. thi. ta, is ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta, ta, ta, t protector, naturally. Like, these are ideas that totally blow up people's world views that they believe their whole lives. That is really hard to accept, and I can say that from personal experience. So that's a barrier number one, plus whatever the mind control tactics that are involved. And I talk about this in my new book, like MK Ultra, an operation paper clip where the thank is is Japanese were brought over who are experts were experts at torturing people and and manipulating the mind so there's we're dealing with some really strong stuff that's

Starting point is 01:12:12 difficult to overcome for people no matter what alternative media is out there I mean well we saw that video of Rogan where they change his hue color yeah because it make it look a little green that's straight up fucking with our yeah manipulation yeah that's news week used to do it to do it to do it to do it to do it to do it to do it the like the like to do it the like to do it the like the to do the the to do the the the the the they. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. I. I. I. the. I. So. So, the. So, the. So, the. So, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th............................ I I.. I. I. I. So, the the the the. And, the. I. And, the. And, the. And, the. And, the. I. And, the. the......................................................'s straight up fucking with our frame. Yeah, that's straight newsweek used to do it too to like political candidates. I remember like John Edwards and John Kerry and those guys would all they made them look like I think the head the headline for them was the Sunshine Boys you know and then the Republican candidate you know McCain and then later Bush they may look like evil. But I think the reason that that, those numbers have a big influence,

Starting point is 01:12:46 it seems like they have a big influence, is it because you have, I think even the majority of people like my family who are politically off the grid, they aren't engaging with any of that, so they're not really registering to you, you know what I mean? But most of them are just living their lives, farming and going to work and they don't give a they don't know when Joe Biden has a press conference you know I mean right right but my question is are they watch the news no no so I'm saying so they're not they're not registering for either side so it's almost like they don't exist in this discussion no theycees right my family are thanks actually in the world of politics they're just not keep trying to go on well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well well the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th is the the the the is the is the is they. they. they. they. the. the is the is the is the is they. the the is the the in the world of politics, no, in the world of politics, they're just not... Keep trying, come on.

Starting point is 01:13:27 Well, the only thing that makes it is kind of interesting. I think that's the way to live. I do too. I'm totally down with that. It's like when we go back to our episode with Peter Champo When he talks about how like Washington, D.C. and all these really important cities are on these lay lines, and he talked about, and this might be it, like, and it makes more sense than somehow 11 million people, somehow people who have 11 million people reach, are somehow people who have 11 million people reach are somehow manipulating 370 million people.

Starting point is 01:14:06 Because even, even Johnny, at your family's level, there had to be a moment of, we got to wear mass or you know, nothing. No, no, they don't wear masks, they don't do anything. No, I'm with you. I go to those places, but like there are places like that that are way beyond the 11 million people. What if it is these lay lines that these certain places, these centers for laylines are amplifications of a narrative through kind of just the grid of this planet? And that's why they put these certain epicenters on these laylines so it amplifies these things whether we know it or not, wanted to or not. And I there's,

Starting point is 01:14:53 I don't, there's no real comment on that. It's just a thought outside. Yeah, I mean, we're living in crazy times. Okay, go on. Yeah. Well, Sam, I want to add on to what you said. I'm open to that. I don't know if it's true, but it's like, who knows? But you're alluding to a broader point, which is manipulation of consciousness and essentially a war of good and evil or dark versus light or unconditional love versus whatever the opposite is fear or hate. And it's, like, if all reality is just consciousness, then the states of our individual consciousnesses, like the individual whirlpools, are gonna have an impact on the entire stream.

Starting point is 01:15:30 So if you had a nefarious goal, then you're gonna wanna try to steer people in a direction of fear and hate and division, rather, and you're gonna wanna amplify that, rather than interconnectedness and unconditional love, for example. So that's where the battle is, getting people to shift their consciousness. And that's why I left my job and writing these books and doing talks is, like, you never know when someone's going to hear a concept that opens the door for them.

Starting point is 01:15:53 And when their consciousness shifts, we don't know the impact that has on the entire field. And I'll give an example. It's known as the butterfly effect. There was a meteorologist playing with assumptions, and one of his assumptions was off by a decimal point, and it radically changed his predictions. The idea, the analogy that's often used, is that a butterfly flapping its wings in China can cause a hurricane in New York, mathematically speaking.

Starting point is 01:16:18 And that's what we may be dealing with at the level of consciousness shifts, we can see drastic improvements. And the reverse is too too to to to to to to to their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thiiiiiiii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thean. thean. theanananananananan. theanananananananananananananananananananananananananananananananatea, thea, can see drastic improvements, and the reverse is true too. If we can have a lot of fear and hate and division, we can have a lot of negativity. I totally believe in that, I totally 100% believe in that. Energy, you put out as energy, you get back. You know, it's like, what is home corn advantage in a, in a sporting event? It is just, you have, I mean, most most, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, i, it's, i, i, i, i, i, i, i. that, i, i, i. that, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i, i. It is just, you have, I mean, most your nets are the same, the same height, it's that, you know, it's from the famous basketball movie where they measure, it's like look at Hoosiers, right?

Starting point is 01:16:54 It's the same thing, but man, what's different is your fans are there and they're putting positive energy into you, lifting you with energy when you're kind of thinking we're about to lose this thing, which helps you get momentum and beat the away team. That's exactly what that is. That is, to me, a butterfly effect as well, you know, and that is just let you know how important this area is and just, you know, if we just take a look at what has happened with COVID and like the fear that everyone, everything that happened with that, starting with all these people

Starting point is 01:17:31 dropping in China. And you remember they were like, oh, these people got COVID, they dropped. Now I personally think if they, if they did gain a function, if you want to believe in the virus, okay, and there's gain a function, right? Why wouldn't they they they they they they they they they they they they they they the.. the virus, okay, and there's gain of function, right? Why wouldn't they practice, why wouldn't they test the vaccine there as well? And are we seeing people having these cardiac moments and dropping like we've seen with soccer players and all these videos that one nurse gets the vaccine, she instantly drops? That's possible, right? Doesn't every country have their own vaccine?

Starting point is 01:18:07 Because isn't Russia supposed to be the good one? Then Germany has their own? But the point is, like it gets kicked off by these, these videos of people dropping in the streets the China ones that hope help kick off this hysteria, which is just fear, more fear, and then this led to the complete other acceptance of eroding of our liberties. What are your thoughts on that?

Starting point is 01:18:32 Mark? That's a huge problem in the world today. It's why I wrote the new book and end upside down liberty, is that we are seeing quote-unquote emergencies being used to say, okay, that's an excuse to take away your rights. We have this emergency, we need to keep you safe. And some people believe that, that those experts have their best interests at heart. And what we're seeing repeatedly, though, is that the liberties are eroding. We're much less free than we were two years ago, and things are not getting better in terms of, like the total number number of number of number of number of number of of number number of of of thoe of thoe of thoe.. thoe. tho, the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's, that's, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. And, the., for example. So that's top of mind for me these days is our individual liberties.

Starting point is 01:19:08 And why do I care so much about that? For me, it's from a spiritual lens in addition to a physical lens. I mean, in the worst case scenario, you have places like North Korea, Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, where people are actually enslaved in a much more visible way than they are in the US, although we're heading in that direction very slowly. That's more the physical enslavement,

Starting point is 01:19:30 but I worry from a spiritual lens. If we're here to evolve at some level, like our consciousness, our soul, our world pool, is having learning experiences. The way I think about it, based on my research is that we need to have freedom and liberty to experience life and take risk in the way that we see fit because then we're going to have a greater learning experience and we might make a lot of mistakes that's part of our learning. So it's not about like zero

Starting point is 01:19:55 COVID for example of all the sudden they're going to take away their rights in order to do it. To me, that's very disturbing because it's taking away people's ability to take risk on their own terms. Yeah, it's super interesting, man. It's super interesting about people's reactions to, you know, this whole situation, how there, you know, people like, ah, it doesn't feel like Nazi Germany around here, but you're like, no, but there are signs that things are like, show me your passport, sounds a lot like show me your papers, right?

Starting point is 01:20:34 New York, straight up had legislation in a bill that was gonna allow the governor just to take you and throw you in a camp without papers. That was real legislation. And I, and just, you know, the old saying was people would rather have safety than freedom, because I think they always think they'll get freedom back. And like Joe Rohn said, they never give it back. Once they take some to why you're still going through airport security because of a shoe bomber. That's why I don't think that the Lakers show will never ask you for your

Starting point is 01:21:10 mask even if they don't give a fuck or the Dodgers. They're always going to ask. Just bring your mask. We don't want you to wear it, just just when you walk in, can you please put on your mask? For them to tell you, for their, for their, for their, for their, for their, for their, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please their mask, please their mask, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please. their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. And, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please,them to tell you, for them to take that, give you that right back, I don't know. I had to go to flea market and they asked me for my bags and the mask to be outside. There was no in, no need to, but of course you're like I'm already here. Like I already made, and I'm never going again. they, I was already already the their. I was. I was already their. I was's the one with my name on it. They don't even care. Some guys making 15 bucks an hour. They don't care either.

Starting point is 01:21:45 Yeah, it's kind of crazy, isn't it man? Just like free, you know, safety over freedom. And it's just like, are you, I mean, like, I would just say if you're someone who's always been a conformer, because I've never been that. you know, zagging, I'm zigging, I'm a zigger for sure, you know, so I never filed it, but like, have you gotten anything you asked for by complying? Have they given you anything? Is there anything that makes your life better? I mean, like you're getting COVID, you're, you know, they're shutting down everything here, open it up, shut it down? And what did you get out of this? Nothing? You, you have, you have, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you have, you have, you have, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th down open up shut it down and what did you get out of this? Nothing you have you know and

Starting point is 01:22:29 people can talk about social credit scores being some right-wing you know what dream of horror but you know it's like you have people in the NBA who are not being allowed to play because of health and protocol so that is directly to that they were next to someone who got COVID-Covit that is that that th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. You their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their their their their their their their their. their their their their. tho. You thooooooooooooooo. their. their. their. their. their. their. they're they're their their their their their. the NBA who are not being allowed to play because of health and protocol. So that is directly to that they were next to someone who got COVID. That is social credit score. What's happening right now, and I think it's Yale, is it with the transgender swimmer? Is that where it is? Her teammates are upset that this is happening, but no of them can come forward because they do not want to be called to someone someone someone someone someone someone to to to to to to to to to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be called to be called to be called to be called to be called to be called to be called to be to be to be the the the this is happening, but none of them can come forward because they do not want to be called transphal.

Starting point is 01:23:08 You pen. You pen. They don't want to be called transphobic. That's social credit score right there. It's already here. It's this mass, mind control, extreme collectivism. I mean, any thoughts on that, Mark? Yeah, well, one of the things that I think is being lost when people make analogies in comparisons to like Nazi Germany, people tend to get very upset sometimes when you make that comparison. Those sorts of totalitarian regimes don't happen overnight. That's the key to remember is that there are baby steps of erosions to liberty that we have to be mindful of, and nip it in in in in in in in in in in it in it in it in it in of and nip it in the bud. So when these things are happening, like you guys are all describing, these are steps along the way to totalitarian control. I hope we don't get there, but we're in that direction.

Starting point is 01:23:52 So there has to be an awareness and a willingness to not conform in the face of things that are clearly immoral. And that's maybe the test for humanity. Are we gonna be able to discern good versus evil, number one? Because I think a lot of people are supporting things that they don't realize are evil. And number two, are we gonna be able to set boundaries and say that there is this coercive force, which is the government that we don't have an explicit contractual relationship with, and yet it is ruling our lives in ways that we didn't ask then then think didn't think didn't think know, this thing with BlackRock.

Starting point is 01:24:26 I heard Robert Malone talk about, we've been talking about it on here forever, which is, you know, environmental, social, and they call governance, but it's corporate governance, which lets you know where they want us to go. And the manufacturing of all of these different, just, divide and conquer that's going on. Like it's all manufactured to get us all the fight with each other just like, you know, what was found in the jar, right? Which is, you know, get them fighting with each other so they can't connect with God. And that's all this stuff. And like everything I learned in recovery,

Starting point is 01:25:09 everything in pop culture right now is the exact opposite. And what we're talking about consciousness right now, universal consciousness, that sounds like all lives matter, but they weaponize that as well. So you know everybody's trying to just use scarcity to keep their power to themselves and it's like that's not what the universe is about. That's not how we're supposed to operate. Like how long you think to the government

Starting point is 01:25:33 gives you a VR set to join the Metavers. Come on you know you used to cost money now we'll give it to you for free. thrown. to the the thrown. toe. toe. toe. toe. thiiiiii. thate. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. thoooo. th. th. thi. that's, thi. that's that's that's that's that's that's, that's, that's, the universe, the universe, the universe, the universe, the universe, the universe, the universe, the universe, the universe, the universe, the universe, the universe. the universe. the universe. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the. the. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. thean. that's, that's thean. thean. sci-ops on siops. Go on Mark. What were you saying? Well, it's a way to steer consciousness for sure. I'm worried about all the same things because it's happened so quickly. It's unbelievable. I mean, even since we last talk, Sam, it's been like a year and a half. What's now versus then in terms of the way our lives are being controlled. And it's different by countries. the countries the the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way the way our the way our the way our the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our the way our the way our the way our the way our the way our the way our the way our the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our the way our the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way the way the way our lives the way our lives th lives thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the way the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives the way our lives's not moving in a positive direction, and maybe the restrictions will slow for a little bit, but we're moving in a direction of less freedom. So, if everything is consciousness, then a big part of this experience, I think is to wake up and to shift away from a mentality of just trusting authority and asking questions, and moving towards this idea that we're free beings no matter what's happening around us. Yeah, I totally agree. I'll th, I'll th, I'll th, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll th, I'll th, I'll th, I'll to, I'll totally, I'll totally totally the a the a the a the a the a thea, their their their their thi their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th, th, th, th, th, th. th. thi thi thi. thi. thru. tru. tru tru tru tru tru tru tru tru tru tru tru tru we're free beings no matter what's happening around us. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And it just seems like the people who want to trust authority, trust science, trust all that stuff. Listen, dude, I have zero problems with believing in science as long as you're willing to

Starting point is 01:26:44 actually look at the data, right you're willing to actually look at the data, right? I mean, like, look at the data, who funded it? You know, what were the actual, what was the actual data? And is that the proper conclusion? Most people don't want to do that? Because it's work and it's hard and it's just, and you're super spread thin and and you just don't want to do that and you're a trusting person so you trust I I just

Starting point is 01:27:09 want to find what's going on in the world I'm gonna trust this hour on television because I wouldn't lie to people therefore these people won't lie to people but those people are collecting checks and they're yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes it the the the the the the the the the the the they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they th they they th th they th th th they th th th th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th the th the the the the to to toooooooooooooooo the the the they the the the the the the Yes. It doesn't matter because they have to not as quick as they can That's what because the check is connected. I think that was a huge downfall from the pandemic. People being able to stay home and actually go on the internet. That might be. That was a huge downfall. Those are like. We did not expect these people have nothing to do all day well. Well, that was part of the to get you to be unhealthy was less sunlight less working out less talking to others But what happened was it's just like the internet for whatever it is Did it get away from them? I don't know

Starting point is 01:27:52 But the end of the day. It's a permanent record and it's gets real hard to keep pulling the same game plan over and over again when we have a, you know, footage of you doing what you did just this whether it's's a couple years ago, five years ago, 20 years ago, right? It's not like the old days. We're head to look in textbooks or it was in black and white. Now we got it in in 4K color, you know, we see you. Yeah, lying. And we live through it. It just seems like everything's been sped up so much so. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. We. th. We. th. th. th. th. th. th. to Iran attacked our drones, you're like, come on dude, we've seen this game plan before. Yeah, well Sam, I want to continue on what you said about trust. I think it's such an

Starting point is 01:28:36 important concept, not only from a conventional perspective, but from a spiritual perspective too. It's known as discernment in spiritual traditions of being able to discern the wolf in sheep's clothing to recognize that it's not actually a sheep. And so I think we're going through a spiritual discernment lesson on a collective level for sure. But I want to tie this to the notion of government too. Because if we think about why do we have government in the first place. Do you think about the early the earlybs? They said, well we need to have this Leviathan state because human beings are essentially not trustworthy. They're warlike, they're stupid, they're irresponsible, they're irresponsible. So here's

Starting point is 01:29:12 what we're going to do. We're going to take a subset of that group of stupid, irresponsible, and warlike, and we're going to put them in power, non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non non, their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thra, thra, thrust. T, they're their, they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they's, they's, they're they's, they're they's, they're they're they're they're they're th.. th. th. thrust. thrust. thrust. thrust. thrust. thrust. thrust. thr. thr-a. thrust. thrust. thr-like, thrust. thrust. th't worry about it, because the people who are not trustworthy, they're stupid and irresponsible and warlike, they're gonna elect those people. So if you think about that, I mentioned this, because there's a tendency to trust government more more than the population, that's what I've noticed. Yes. It's like, well, they're government's a government government government government the people, but government is a subset of the people. Why would you trust them more? And they're in a position of power. And it's a magnet for psychopathic personalities who love power.

Starting point is 01:29:49 And people are transformed by power and they can actually change. So it's like, it should be the reverse. We should be skeptical. And so that's where I think there's so interesting. It's like so if I told you Well if you said this to most people hey politicians are corrupt people be like yeah They're totally corrupt duh. That's a dumbest statement ever we all know that and then you go hey man the people from your party are corrupt Dude, whatever, you're just a stupid either social justice warrior or you're just a stupid. their? you're just a stupid. the stupid. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. you. you you you thi thi this. you you you you this. this. this. this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to thi to thi to theeeeeeeateeeeeat. If you think whatever man, you're just a stupid either social justice warrior or you're just a stupid right-wing conspiracy thing,

Starting point is 01:30:31 whatever it is. It's like unbelievable how this like, you know, like from the matrix they call it like, you become agent Smith, right? You just transform into this other entity that just is like wants to fight back and control you. And it's like, it's like crazy how people just, like the whole movement was to make us as emotional as possible. How emotional can we get? So now it's like, it's not even about facts. It's not even about what someone did. It's who they are is more important than what they did. And if they're on your side, you're willing to look away from what they did. If they're on the other side, you are just gonna raise hell until you get a head on a stake. And it's just like it's all emotional.

Starting point is 01:31:20 There are no facts anymore. There are only emotions, which is like spiritual right there, right? It's a consciousness shift. It's getting people to to be divided and it's a us versus them mentality. If you're not with us, then you're automatically on the other side. And what I'm hoping to do with my new book is to try to transcend that, which is really it's about freedom versus enslavement. It's not about right versus left. Because right and left are the the the th are th are th are th are th are th are th are th are th are th th th th th the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thus thus thus th thus thus thus thus thus, thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th. It's th, th. It's th, th, th. It's th. It's th. It's the the their their their their their their their their thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi thi. It's thi thi thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. freedom versus enslavement. It's not about right versus left, because right and left are just different ways of imposing your views on the other side through government, whereas if we're really free, then people should be able to do, they might have a more liberal lifestyle or a more conservative lifestyle personally, and they should be able to do that on private property that allows it, rather than try to force people to do things and we're getting caught up in this right left and wanting to force people way too much.

Starting point is 01:32:08 It's super so we're coming to the end here but I just wanted to say that like you brought up this thing about oh man there's gonna we need a small group of people to run these people because we can't trust them. So I'm reading tragedy and hope. I the they. I they. I the the they. I'm the the the the the the th. I'm the the th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the. to to the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the the the the the the the the the the the the. the the. the. the. the. thean. thean. thean. thean. toean. toean. toean. toean. toean. toean. toean. toean. toetrust them. So I'm reading Tragedy and Hope right now and it's like insanely dense, like, you know, I flung first grade. I have to read the page, the paragraph, and go, what did I just read? And, but it was really breaking down how important the agricultural revolution was. And for the first time ever, you would go from 20 people, like if, it would take 20 people to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th, th, th, th, the thi thi thi, to thi, thi, thi, to to thi, to run thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, thrue, I'd thrue, I'd their, I'd their, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, the first, the the the the the the the the the the the thr, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, to run run, to run, to run, to run, to run, to run, to run, to run, to run, thronge, thronge, thru, thronge, the, time ever, you would go from 20 people, 20 people, like if it would take

Starting point is 01:32:48 20 people to grow enough food to feed 20 people. So what does that mean? That meant you were growing your food for your people. And then, out of nowhere, someone developed a way to grow way more food with way less people. Okay? So now you instead of having 20 people growing food for 20 people, you had five people growing food for a hundred people and that allowed the 95 other people to go and be able to create other industries which leads into the industrial revolution. But what that also did was allow those people who controlled the

Starting point is 01:33:30 food to create an industry of control, right? And that is from security of protecting the farms and the commerce that comes with that and that becomes very powerful. So now for the first time ever, we have a need for organization. And for the longest time now, we have been manipulating that process. And it's getting more and more, and we're putting banking and all this stuff and all these laws and making up laws just to arrest you because now they make money off arresting you and putting you in jail. And it's like, hey, man, we got to get back to come back to that. th. th, that. that. that. th, that. And, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, and th, and th, and tho, tho, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, and th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th comes th comes th comes th comes tho comes tho comes tho comes tho comes tho comes thoo comes thooo comes thoooooooooo, and tho, tho, tho, tho, tho and all these laws and make it up laws just to arrest you because now they make money off arresting you and putting you in jail and it's like hey man we got to get back to common sense spiritual governing. What is right what is wrong? Not is like not not allowing the police force to vote on common sense drug laws because they know it's going to affect their budget. You say get back to that. When was the last time that was the standard? I mean like ever who knows?

Starting point is 01:34:31 Who knows? Who knows? But we got, okay, we got to do that. Right? I mean, am I wrong? Am I talking? I mean, everything's all fucked up. The crops are fucked up with the Monsanto's thing. Yeah, right to to to to to to to to to to to they. to they. to be. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. they. thi. th. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. t. toda. toda. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. anto's thing. Yeah, right. So what was that Mark? That to me was the most fantastical thing I've heard today. Was you talking that we might actually be able to, I don't have a lot of faith that that can be done at any big level. You know what I mean? I think it's got to just come, you're talking about all the crops are managed by someone, like how big of a city are you talking like? I mean it's it's it's basic. Because after a while you can't handle it, you can't. Well I mean the point is it's like you get

Starting point is 01:35:14 you kind of get into this place where it's like there is less there, it's a libertarian kind of way of looking at stuff, right? Like live and let live, okay? And then if you don't operate in a spiritual way, you get dealt with, am I wrong? What are your thoughts on that, Mark? Sam, you just basically described the thesis of my new book and then the upside down liberty, you described it, which is not just the political, which I call voluntaryism,

Starting point is 01:35:41 essentially extreme libertarian, where everything is just service providers that you have a contract with. The government is dissolved into those service providers and people have their own property. But to me, that's insufficient, just having the volunturist perspective, which is super important. You need to have the spiritual as well.

Starting point is 01:35:58 So in my book, I call it a metaphysical philosophy, of the spiritual mentality plus the extreme, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and than just a political philosophy of the spiritual mentality plus the extreme liberty of the voluntarism. I don't think it's gonna happen tomorrow, but the question that I ask in the book is, how should we organize society? And when I think about it from an ideal perspective, that's aligned with spiritual principles, it's gotta be in this spiritual and libertarian direction. And right now we're in the opposite of that.

Starting point is 01:36:25 So I think we have to start moving that way, even if we're not gonna get there tomorrow of the ideal society. Yeah, I agree with you, man. It's like gonna take time. And but I think what has to happen is like people have to put an end to it man. You know like hypocrisy. I don't know how you deal with hypocrisy, but there has to be some kind of something, punishment for that, treaise,

Starting point is 01:36:53 we have people committing right treaison, you know, deception, stuff like that. There needs to be some kind of, there needs to be consequences for your actions when you don't act spiritually in the right way. All right? I mean, it's just start with not wearing a mask at a fucking restaurant after you told everybody to wear a mask. Yeah, I mean, that's hypocrisy right there.

Starting point is 01:37:15 There needs to be something. So Sam, the way I think about that is basically, voluntaryism explains the rights for society, that everything has to be fully voluntary. And there are rules on private property, that if someone comes to your property, that if they're gonna have to agree to those rules. But that leaves a lot of individual liberty to do things, like as long as you're not violating someone's property under voluntaryism,

Starting point is 01:37:41 you can do whatever you want. So some people would say, well, like with drugs, then people, everyone would be a drug addict because they were just, there are no laws to protect them. My view from the spiritual lens is that people on an individual basis when they're making their own decisions, is they're going to be thinking about personal karma and spiritual principles, and thinneu. Do I want to do this? Is it going going going going going going going going going going going their going their going their going their going their going their going their going their their their their their their their, is, their, their, their, to to, to, to, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, to to to to to, to, to, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their tooes., their their, their, their, the broader consciousness of intelligence or whatever. So the individual's decisions are made on the basis of spiritual principles under this idea in addition to having these strong private property rights. Yeah, I totally believe that. I totally agree with that. You know, it's like my opinion on sex and why I get really mad at the conspiracy people

Starting point is 01:38:24 who likes our demonized gay people. It's like all you're doing is pushing the thei their their their the conspiracy people who like start demonized gay people. It's like all you're doing is pushing people back into the closet which allows people to manipulate them because they don't want that secret to get out. At the end of the day it's like whatever you want to do sexually, you do it with consenting adults. As long as you're not hurting people, in in particular children I don't care what you do I really don't I'm not gonna sit here and like flip flop on stuff based on my feelings I'm just not gonna do mental gymnastics on that I make very very very strict rules whatever you want to do a consenting

Starting point is 01:39:00 adults you can do I don't care I do not want the government tell me what to do with consenting adults, you can do. I don't care. I do not want the government tell me what to do. My body, my choice, across all things. Okay? Across all lines. I'm not going to manipulate it because it fits my narrative. That's where I am. I don't even want to hear what you're talking about. My body, my choice. My body, my choice. My body my choice. My body, my choice. My body my choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My choice. My, my choice. My, my choice. My, my choice. My, my choice. My, my choice. My, my choice. My, my, my, my, my, my choice. My, my choice, my choice, my choice, my choice, my choice, my choice. I, my choice. My, my choice. My, my choice. My, my choice. My, my choice. My, my choice. My, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my choice. the, my choice. the, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my buy my choice, my buy my choice, don't bring up this incense or this thing or this moral thing. My buy my choice. End it right there. You do what you want spiritually, you deal with the ramifications of it, as long as you're not hurting other people, particularly in sex, as long as not children, in particular, I don't care what you do. You do you and your privacy of your own home and it's none of my freaking business. We've made sex, we've just so like just just, just, just weaponize sex

Starting point is 01:39:52 as control. I mean they do it all the time. We see it all the time on television, you know, you know we like trans this, trans, and then like Dwight Howard gets busted with a trans and all they do is beat him down for it. And you're like I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I they th I th I th I th I th I th I th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th that that th and then like Dwight Howard gets busted with a trans and all they do is beat him down for it. And you're like I thought we're supposed to be open-minded to these people being like this and all you do is mock them. Let people live their lives. If somebody does something because they're gay they're doing it. It's not because they're gay. It's because they're an asshole who happens to be gay. Stop getting, stop allowing people to manipulate people for their secrets. Stop long, you know, there's a saying in recovery, you're only as dark, you're only as sick as your secrets.

Starting point is 01:40:35 Stop letting that be a secret. Let people live their effin life. It's the non-aggression principle. Do whatever you want as long as you're not initiating physical violence or extortion or coercion or fraud against someone's property or their body. It's a very simple principle that is aligned with spiritual principles. If people want to do things that actually cause harm to themselves in some way, then that's their personal spiritual learning that they're going to have to go through. But who are we to actually, like we can try to to to to to try to to to th, like, th, th, th, th, th, th, th th th th th and th and th and thi thi thi, thi, thi, is, is, is, is thi, is thi, is, is, thi, is their, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is their their their, is, is their tho, is their, is their, is their, is their, is, is, is, is, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. thi. thi. tho. thi. to thoooooooooo. the. thooooooooooo. their, is, their, the're going to have to go through, but who are we to actually, like we can try to help people of course, but we can't to tell people what they should or shouldn't do in their own lives to me violates spiritual principles. I completely and utterly agree that's my take on drugs. Someone should not be in jail for doing drugs. If they steal something and get something to get drugs, if they're sacked, th, th, th, their something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something something, th, and get, and get, and get, and get, and get, th. thi, thi, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, their, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th. thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their s' their s' their s' thi. And thi. thi. to to to to thean, thi. to their si. thi. their their their their their th's not about drugs. It's just like liquor. You can drink as much as you want as long as you don't drive.

Starting point is 01:41:26 Yeah, as long as you don't drive, the second you drive, you go to jail. You can be drunk as you want at the bar as long as you don't drive. You should be able to do all the drugs as you want as long as you don't commit the crime. 100% dude. Someone should. I like me, I've to to to the drug, I, I, I, I, I've to to to the the drug, I've to the the drug, I've the drug, I've to the drug, I've the drug, I've the drug, I've the drug, I've to the the the to the the their. I've to the drug. I've their, I've their, I've their, I've the the the dr dr dr drive, I drive, I drive, I drive, I drive. I drive. I drive. I drive, I drive. I drive. I, I drive. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the second, I'm the second, I'm the second, I'm the second, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I'm the second, I'm the second, I'm the second, I'm the to be a drug act, but I've stopped using drugs. But if I went to jail for drugs, like for a long time, not just one night, but the long time I'm a felon, it makes it almost impossible for me to write my life. I can stop doing drugs. I can't stop being a felon. So outside of murder, sexual assault, and like high-end thievery, I think you should be able to work off a felony.

Starting point is 01:42:10 Show that you're no longer that person anymore and get that dropped off you so you could become a productive part of the of of America. Yeah. I'm just yelling at you guys at this point. Mark? Well, it goes along with the same principle, Sam, of a business owner should make that decision. They should look at the employee and say, is this a person I want to hire? And they make that decision, rather than having a third party that they didn't agree to,

Starting point is 01:42:36 telling them who they can and can't hire, for example, or what that person can and can't do in society. I completely not really agree man. I completely not really agree. It's like we need some common sense laws going on here. And I think we're, I think people are more, more opening their eyes to what's going on. And, you know, but you know, my biggest things like, I ain't here the wake up sleeping lions. And I'm not even about sleeping lions. I'm just here to take care of those. My family around me, my friends, and that's about it. And you know, treat people well. Use the non-aggression principle in every aspect of my life. So I'm done. Mark, it was, every time I talk to you, I leave here on a higher frequency and I'm super thankful thankful. So one more time can you please tell them where they can find you and any links you'd like them to check out. Sure and thanks again for having me Sam. It's always fun chatting with you. Always

Starting point is 01:43:33 welcome back. Thank you. My website is my name Mark Gober. My book, Ark, G.O.B.R. to the books, an end upside down thin living and an end upside down thinking, an end upside down living, and an end upside down liberty. There are an Amazon and all the bookstores on audible Kindle, hard copy and my podcast, where is my mind is on Apple podcast, Spotify and other major players. Marks, thanks for joining us. I really do appreciate it. It was a wonderful show and I think it's an important show. And I look forward to our next conversation. I'm sure in a couple weeks you'll have another book

Starting point is 01:44:09 done and we'll be able to talk about that book because you're prolific. And again, thank you for coming on. And I hope that all you guys enjoyed the show, got a lot out of it. And I hope to see you in in Buffalo this weekend and those tickets for Long Beach and B. And the to. And the to. And to. And to. And to. And to. And to. I. I. I. I. I. I. I's to be to be to be the to be the too. I's to be to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a the the the to bea. to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a to be a their. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, too. too. too. tooome. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. their their their their their this weekend and those tickets for Long Beach and Bakersfield are moving quick. I hope you can grab them. It's going to be a great time. We love you very much. Have a great week. Have a great weekend and we will see you on the other of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. That's some interdimensional shit. Wake up, Aaron! This is only the beginning. You just blew my mind.

Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - #530: The Non Aggression Principle with Mark Gober

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.