Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - #555: Nais-Myth With Brion Carroll

Starting point is 00:00:00 Timfoil Hat. Oh, what the fuck are you guys even talking about? Global controls will have to be imposed, and a world governing body will be created to enforce them. Welcome to Tinfoil Half. We go deep, home boy. Eric, open your mic. Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. Aaron, open your mind.

Starting point is 00:00:28 Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. That's some interdimensional mind. Wake up, Aaron. This is only the beginning. There's, you just blew my mind. Good. Good. Morning swarm and welcome the typical hat. There, you just blew my mind. Are you ready to get your mind blown? Good morning swarm and welcome the typical hat, you know I am, you know I'm here to do, I'm here too. Rogg.

Starting point is 00:00:53 Join me as always, Xavier Greero and Jay Nice, Johnny Woodard. How are you guys? We're doing. We're living. Learned a lot today. A very interesting podcast. Veryoday, very interesting podcast. A little change of pace for y'all, you know? I mean we're taking a break from the, the, uh, you know, the COVID and the New World Order and the Lizard people. And we're getting into about, you know, are they rewriting history? And we're talking about the history of basketball. So I loved it. It was a wonderful conversation. I hope you guys enjoy as well.

Starting point is 00:01:29 I hope you guys, if you want to see me or any of us on the road, we have some shows coming up. If you want to get any of my dates, just go to Sam Tripoli. They're all there. I'm going to Frederickberghs. I'm I'm going to I'm going to Baltimore. I'm going to Palmdale, Chicago, Aurora. I'm going to Texas for Float Fest.

Starting point is 00:01:49 And then May 4th in Los Angeles. Woo! Comedy Chaos, the to-schoice live at the comedy store. Comedy chaos, May 4th. And Laguna Nigel on May 11. Just go to Sam True. For all your dates. A lot of fun stuff going on there as well.

Starting point is 00:02:08 T-shirts. If you have t-shirt ideas just email me at Sam Tripoli Live. We got t-shirts t-shirts. It's gone. It's gone like my Instagram. Oh is it gone we sold out? Sold out. Sold out. Thank guys. We appreciate that. That's all sold out. We have we have that. If you want to join the telegram. Guys I'm getting off of Reddit. I'm gone from Reddit. I don't want to do it anymore. The telegrams where the action is. Just go to Santerley. Dot com. Click the link the banner there will take you to our telegram page which is over 3,000 people So much evidence bang bang bang bang bang If they were on there they know they knew about this new video that came out that we saw this morning Yeah, yeah, yeah watch the wall you got to go over there to tune it Johnny doesn't believe in it by the tune. Johnny hasn't thin. Jani hasn't he. th. th. th doesn't th doesn't th doesn't th doesn't th doesn't th doesn't th isn't th isn't th isn't th isn't th isn't th. Jony doesn't th. Jony doesn't th. th. th. thi. th. Jony. th. th. th. thi. Jolly. J. Jolly. thi. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. J. they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're they they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're theying about. Okay go to if you want to get let's say these episodes are enough for you we have so much premium episodes for you on rockfin.com tifoil hats

Starting point is 00:03:12 premium content is on rockfin dot com go to rockfin dot com you know slash tinfoil hat conspiracy social club zero spiritual podcast, which is getting huge in Europe. Slovakia loves it, okay? Rockfin, any, just, there's over 400 creators for only $10. You get all of them, all of them. So go check that out. Broken Sim's on there. We don't smoke the same broken Sims on there we don't smoke the same yes and when is we don't smoke zones live show Saturday Saturday in Riverside Sam will be showing up

Starting point is 00:03:52 there's a couple tickets left get the VIP boxes boxes boxes yes you will get weird with these boxes but I think it's at event bright dot com and we will see you guys there okay go to tcc tcccc tc th a th a thn the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to the to the the the to the the the the the to to the the to to to the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th th the the tbbe tbe tbe tc. tc. tc. tcou-I tc. tc. tbe tbl. tbl. tbl. tbl. tbe tbe tbe tbe tbe tbe tb at eventbright.com and we will see you guys there. Okay go check that out and then finally if you go to Tim Fall Hat t-shirts you go to Sam Triply dot com I have seven free shows of audio for you to listen to some RSS feed Tim Fall Hat this one Broken Sim which is pure fire everybody it's basically three hour show about my week and I decide that Broken Sim is the taxi driver of LA. If you've seen the movie Tax Driver and all that stuff, that's what Broken Sim is. I just go around LA looking for danger. That's what I basically do and I talk about it and we had some great stuff.

Starting point is 00:04:41 Yeah, me and my pug. Cash Daddy's is my financial show, Punch Drunk Sports Show, Union the Unwanted is my panel show about conspiracies. And then you can go to the vault of two of my shows on Rockfin, Zero and Conspiracy Social Club. Both, I'm now starting to put out two episodes a week of that as well. So all you want to hear is available for you. Just go to Sam Tripoli.com and 24-hour radio as well. Anything else guys? No? All right, so today's episodes brought to you by our good friends at Athletic Greens,

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Starting point is 00:06:59 All right so let's get into it. I'm super excited about this episode because it's much different than stuff we've been doing lately. And I think maybe, you know, we gotta mix it up once a while. I think doing all the serious stuff all the time, not that this isn't serious, but you know, it's not the world we live in. Life or death, like snake venom, stuff like that. They don't even know about that. They don't even know about that. So I'm very excited to have our next guest on. He has a book called up coming out, or it's out now called Nase Myth. I'm very excited.

Starting point is 00:07:35 There it is. Nays Myth, okay? And it's about basketball conspiracy and I'm super excited to have him on. Please welcome the show author Brian Carroll. How are you Brian? I'm doing good yourself. Brian I'm great as you know Johnny and I are giant basketball junkies you know on this show there are a lot of people who think you know that sports is what's it bread and circus right and that it's this giant smoke. what's it, uh, bread and circus, right?

Starting point is 00:08:06 And that it's this giant smoke screen to kind of, you know, you know, uh, hide what's really going on. And you know what? I don't care. Yeah. I love it. I love basketball. I fell in love with basketball.

Starting point is 00:08:21 Very early in my life. The person who got me into basketball was Patrick Ewing and I've loved it ever since and so basketball is very personal to me so when I got an email talking about your book I was like let's do it so I'm excited to talk to you about your theory on the origins of basketball. Before we begin could you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and any websites or social media you'd like to promote? Yeah, so in my history I'm technology. I'm not necessarily heavy into sports and basketball and all that stuff, but about a year and a half ago Scott Flansburg, also known as the human calculator, came into the

Starting point is 00:09:04 village of Herkimer where I live and connected with me and brought to light to light and brought to light. and a half ago, Scott Flansberg, also known as the human calculator, came into the village of Herkimer where I live and connected with me and brought to light the fact that there was evidence that proved the basketball originated in Herkimer. Now, this is a, this is a, let's call it a tale that has existed for 50 years, the 70 years. Since the Hall of Fame was put into Springfield, there was a jockey there. There, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, 50 years, the 70 years. Since the Hall of Fame was put into Springfield, there was a jockey between Herkimer and Springfield, maybe even Kansas in regards to where the Hall of Fame should be. But that's the evidence about Herkimer being the origin of basketball was probably 90% complete.

Starting point is 00:09:43 Meaning all of the facts and evidence weren't necessarily fully flushed out. And so we in Herkimer, we had established an organization called the Herkimer 9. And the Herkimer 9 is based on the actual origin of the basketball, which I, if you give me time, I'll kind of go through that. And so what we did was created two organizations.

Starting point is 00:10:10 One is a for profit and one is a not for profit. The for profit is you can find it at hercom or notforprofit.org. And the not for profit is herkimer.m-e-r number nine.com and that's Herkimer, H-E-R-K-I-M-E-R number 9.com and dot org. We also have, as you can see on my head here, the Herkimer Originals, which is the first ABA basketball team to be posted in this region, and we actually came in, we were in the final four for the region, which was pretty doggone good considering that we were kind of toppled by the person, the team that was number three in the whole league, and the league consists of roughly 200 teams. So we thought we did pretty good.

Starting point is 00:10:59 A league of 200 teams? Damn. What was that, What was that? What was that South Park movie? Basketball or what was it? Oh, baskeball. Yeah, yeah. Where the tournament was like 10,000 teams going at it, right?

Starting point is 00:11:15 And so to have 200,000 teams in a league is insanity. But I love the picture of the original Herkimer 9,000, even though I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, theeeeeeeeeeeea, thea, thea, theaugh, theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee love the picture of the original Herkimer 9, even though I think there looks like there's more than 9 there, but how many are there 1, 2, 3, like I'm 9 going to do? Yeah, it looks like there's like 12 there. Maybe the coach or a manager or something. But I love that like, look at where basketball is now and then look at the guys who started. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin, thin, thin, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. thinks, thi, the that, the the th, the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the picture, the picture, the picture, the picture, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, toge. Two, toge, te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. the. thi, thi, thi, th now and then look at the guys who started it like it's so incredible how far it's it's called. So when he when when when the human calculator approached you I love that we're calling it that's awesome. Well I don't know that that's like no I mean that's the best nickname is a great nickname is a great nickname as a nickname as nicknames goes there's so many crazier names like that's a great name that's a great that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's like. It's a that's a that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's like. that's like. that's like. that's like. that's like. that's like. that's like. that's like. that's like. that's like. that's like. that's like. that's like. I I I I I I I I I's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a the the that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's the best nickname is a great nickname. As nicknames goes, that's all the- There's so many crazier names, like, that's a great name. That's a great thing to be known as.

Starting point is 00:12:08 Because it is, yeah, yeah. Rather than like, you know, the human piece of shit or something like that. Yeah, that's sure. Yeah, which we know a couple calculator. I love that. Oh, that's cool. I've seen that guy and stuff. Scott Flansburg and we, why did he say he was so passionate about it? What was the initial discussion? Because he comes to your place to talk to you. Is it for this or is it for another reason?

Starting point is 00:12:40 No, he, his father lives here. He grew up here. And he then went off, very similar to I did. You know, he went off into the Air Force and then buzzed out and became the human calculator over time, which was actually given, that name was given by Regis Philburn on the show he was on, the guy he goes, hey, you're like the human calculator and that stuck. And so that's where he got he his his he he he he he he he he he he he that's where he that's where he that's where he he that's where he that's where he he that's that's that's that's that's that's that's, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. th. that name, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th.. that name, that name, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. he. he. he. he. he. he. he. he. he. he he he he thee. the. the. thi. thi. th. th human calculator, and that stuck. And so that's where he got his name. But he spent, like me, I spent 35 years in technology, he spent 35 years dazzling people and creating what they call math elites. Instead of athletes, you got math elites.

Starting point is 00:13:14 And he set the world, the I don't know, presented to like millions of kids over the 35 years on how to think of math as something that's interesting and fun. So that was his and he was visiting his father and his sister still lives here. And he got the book, I grew up a basketball and that's a different book and I'll hold it up just so you can see it. This is I grew up a basketball by Frank th, like, like, like, like, like, like, th, th, like, th, th, th, th, th, the th, like, the the the th, the the th, I th, I the th, I the th, I the thi, I thi, I thi, I'm thi, like, I'm, I'm, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I, I, I, I, I, I, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thr-a, thr-a, thrown, thi, thr-I'm, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the book, I grew up a basketball, and that's a different book, and I'll hold it up just so you can see it. This is, I grew up a basketball by Frank J. Baslow. And this is the one that actually turned the tide and started to profess that Herkimer was the origin of basketball. And in there is a whole slew of content, some of which, I call it zippering folklore in fact. th. th. th. th. th. thi, I th. th. th. thi, I th. thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I throwne is throwne, throwneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. I grew throwne. I throwne meaning over time people develop, this is reality,

Starting point is 00:14:07 but in reality it's folklore. It's things that they believe are to be true, but there's no real evidence that it is true. And so some of that is in that book. And so we took that book, we also took the Naismith, book, and I don't want to be someone be someone be someone someone someone someone thing. This Naismith book, which was actually basketball, origins and development. And a whole slew of analytics on historic documents.

Starting point is 00:14:35 And that's where George and Darryl Fosty, the Fosty brothers, because they're sports historians. And so he came here saying, Herkimer should be known and represented as the place where basketball originated. And he was really bent on that. And so he and I got together. I was the chairman of the planning board of the village of Herkimer, and I had developed, and I had developed what they called the master plan in 2020 of how to develop out hercomer. And so you combine, why should hercmer be developed out, which is my view, and then, of what specific thing could cause that to happen, which is that basketball originated in Herkimer.

Starting point is 00:15:15 So we kind of plotted together to not only put together the Herkimer 9 program, but in parallel to that, develop evidence if there is such that Herkimer was the origin. Now, if we found that Herkimer was not the origin, we would have published nothing. But because we found pure evidence that depicts Herkimer as being the origin and that Lambert Will, who was a 16-year-old YMCA director in Herkimer was the inventor. It became very obvious we had to document that in very clinical,

Starting point is 00:15:50 but at the same time, interesting way. Well, I'm excited to hear about this and I always go, what is the purpose of lying about history? Because we see it so much, I mean, this might not be your take, but you know, the story of Facebook in the movie, I don't believe that's at all even accurate. And you're like, why, why do we have to lie about that stuff? And when you think about, yeah, obviously, Facebook is a more modern thing, but when you think about why, why do we have to say that Naismith,

Starting point is 00:16:26 like what is the purpose behind that? Why can't we be like, no, man. How old did you say this guy was that was running the Y? 16. He was 16. Why can we say a 16 year old started? There was a reason. See, back in the 50s, or the late 40s, when Springfield was looking to become known as the basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball. b b. the basketball. the basketball. the basketball. the basketball. the best. the best. the best. the the the, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the, like, like, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. th. the purpose, th. th. th. th. th. th, what is th, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th, th, th, th, th. What is, th. What is, th. What is, th. What is, th. What is, th. What is, the purpose, the purpose, the purpose, the purpose, the purpose, the purpose, the purpose, the purpose, the purpose, the back in the 50s or the late 40s when Springfield was looking to become known as the basketball Hall of Fame now realize and I don't want to jump ahead in the back and ahead in the back. Go on your timeline that you want to like. No no no no specific to your question I want to answer your question is that what Naismith what you'll find in this chronology is that Naismith kind of wrote a tsunami wave.

Starting point is 00:17:06 And I'll describe how he got into that. But because of that, Springfield became known as the birthplace, the basketball, Naismith being the inventor. And when the Hall of Fame question came up, Springfield, with all of a thi. thiiii. to their. told. thrown. to, too. too. too. too. too. too. too. to, to, to, to, to, to, th. th. th. to, th. th. to, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. too. to, th. th. th. th. to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to, to, to. to. to. to. to, to, too. too. to, too. to, to, too. to, to, too. to, too. th. th. the the th. the the the. the the. the the. the the. the. the. too. too. too. to, too. to, to, to, to, began to kind of rally. And then Herkimer all of a sudden jumped up like a small animal going, no, that's me. And they go, roe, no, it's not, it's us. And so that became a political fight

Starting point is 00:17:34 that was kind of ingredienting what was the heritage of Naismith, and what was the real truth of basketball. But that collision, you know, was something that over time has been kind of washed out. Yeah. Tourism dollars, that's what we talked about. Right. Why else would you be going to Herkimer or going to? You see it all the time. These these Midwest towns that have, you know, the giantest slice of cheese or whatever, you know, it's all just, it's all just, you know, myth-making to try to get people to go out there. Make a stop in their car. Hey guys, I want to tell you about our sponsors at Factor, Factor Meals. That's right, you know, I love Factor Meals. I used to eat them all the time, ti the time, especially when I, my thops, thops, thops, thops, thops, thops, the babies, thops, thops, thops the babies, thinks that, the babies, that, that, their, their, their, to eat their, to eat their, their, their, to eat to eat their, their, their, to eat to eat to eat to eat to eat to eat to eat to eat to eat to eat to eat their, to eat their, to eat their, their, their, their, their, to eat to eat to eat to eat to eat to eat to eat their, to their, their, their, their, to their, to their, to their, to to their, their, to their, their, their, to their, their, to their, to their to their to to to their to to to to there all the time for my kids and I couldn't go out and cook all the time or go out to grab food and so I just got a factor meals and I'm telling you I lost wait I had one last night I love it

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Starting point is 00:19:59 So here's what I want you to do. Head to go.Factor 75. com slash tinfoil 120.20 Use the code tinfoil 120 to get $120 off. That's code tinfoil 120 at go dot factor 75.com slash tinfoil 120 for $120 off. Guys, I eat this. I love the meals. They're great and their portion just right so we'll help you lose weight. So go check it out again that's go. Factor 75.com slash Timfoil 120. Enjoy it. All right Brian where do you want to start? Okay so what I like to do is kind of describe how basketball originated. And give you what is defined in the book and what is evidenced through the book as the story of how basketball came about.

Starting point is 00:20:58 And this goes back to that 16 year old, and the date is like December of 18 1890. So in December of 1890, the individual Amber Will was, you know, just a kid, 16 year old, he had been assigned and volunteered to be the director of the YMCA and Herkimer. And he was in the basement of his home, which means his mother's seller. And she wanted him to sort cabbage because sourcrout, which she was planning to make, is made of a harder form of cabbage than if it goes soft. And so he was pitching the hard

Starting point is 00:21:36 cabbage into one basket and the soft cabbage into another basket. And so he was pitching this and he actually thought of this as, you know, interesting. It wasn't anything that was, you know, huge and inspirational. It was just kind of like a kid, like if you look at cornhole, which is where you throw a bag into a hole on a board, you know, somebody thought of that and it was just something interesting and something to do. And so he took that idea, all excited about it, and went over to an Ostman, a store. And Osmond's general store was, you know, like a breath away. It wasn't far from where he lived. And in there was two individuals, St. Peterson and Gary Fritz. And he said, hey, I got a great game. And he said, what you do is you take cabs, you throw into a basket, they're like, yeah, okay, that was nice boy. You know, past the seltzer. So instead he he he he the the th. th. th. thi. thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. tho, thi. thi. thi. tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. thine. thine. thine. thine. thine. thine. thine. thi. th. th. th. He's was, th. He's was, th. He's was, th. He's was, th. He's was, thi. He's was, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. He's was, the. He's was, thee. He's was, toeea. He's was, toea. He's was, t. He's was, too. He's was, too. He's was, thea. He's was, thea boy, you know, past the past the salser. So instead he goes, no, take the basket,

Starting point is 00:22:27 put it on a step ladder, and what we'll do is we'll have a contest who can make the most baskets. And the owner of the store, I said whoever makes the most baskets gets hot cider and some kind of a cookie or donut or whatever. Turns out they say that all of them made the same number of baskets. I don't believe that was true. I believe that somebody did win. But nevertheless, that was the origin of the gene, the genesis of the idea of basketball. Now this is in December of 1890. Dude, that's so crazy, man.

Starting point is 00:23:01 And it's just like you kind of sit there and you go, when you go, oh, they're 16, we think a 60 year olds today. Like 16 year olds in 1890s, we're about 40 year olds. They're like, they're big. Part living, you're like, I got smoking and drinking. You're not married? Yeah. They're already got married.

Starting point is 00:23:17 Yeah. I'm 16. I had five kids by the time I was 16. I'm my grandkids and I want them by the time you're 20. This is the way it is. I got you. And you know what I was just thinking it's like, you know, so you're like, okay, they got a cabbage, they threw it in. I'm like, oh man, they should just get a ball. I'm like, did thrown. that. that. that. that. that. that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That. That's. That's. That's. that. that. that. that. Yeah. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Yeah. th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's. Yeah. That's. Yeah. That's. That's. Yeah. Yeah. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. Yeah. That's. Yeah. Yeah. That's. Yeah. the. the. the. the. the. the. th. th. th. the. I. th. th. th. th. I. I. th. the. the. I th. the. I th. the the the th. I th. the the. the. I the YMCA. So after this little thing that they do, he goes home and it keeps flopping around his head because Lambert Will was a tinkerer and his whole life was that of a tinkerer of things. And so he convenes back in the YMCA because you know it's not yet Christmas break. And he says, let's try that same thing we did in the general store. th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, the the, the, the, the th. th. th. the, the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thee, the the the the, the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. That's th. th. That's th. That's th. That's th. th. That's th. th. th. th. That's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, the. the. the. the. the. the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. the. the. thery that same thing we did in the general store but instead let's put the baskets on the wall and use a medicine ball

Starting point is 00:24:08 so now that begins to be a ball that's not cabbage because that could get a little shreddy right you've done it with a salad by the time you're done and so they're using a medicine ball to throw it in and they're just kind of like you might do when you're standing o' the outside the outside the outside the the to the to the to the to the to the the th I I I I I's th so so. th so. I's th. I's th. It's th. It's th. It's thi. It's throw. It's throwing it. And throwing it's throwing it. And throwing it. And they's though is kind kind kind kind kind. th throwing. throwing. throwing. throwing. I's is is is throwing it. throwing it. thi. thi. thi. thi. I's is is is is is just kind. th th thi. I's thi. So. So. So. And thin. And thin. And thin. And thin. And thin. It's just just kind kind kind thin. And thin. And thin. And th. And th. And thin. And th. And thin. And th. And th. So thin. So th. So th. So thi balls bouncing and you're throwing it and then somebody else throws it and so that became well it's interesting but they they really said this actually could be a game now nothing happened in any grand form in 1890 to form that game they broke for Christmas by the time January came back around again Lamberwold mines flipping flipping flipping the kids that were there became very very th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th just th just th just th just th just th just thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the the- tho-so so so tho-soa tho-so so so tho-so so so th. th. th. th. thi. th. thi th. th. th. th th. th th th th th. th. th. th th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, mines flipping, flipping, flipping, and the kids that were there became very interested.

Starting point is 00:24:47 So what he did, and this is where the number nine comes in, is that he pulled together the two baseball teams at the time. There was the businessmen's nine and the YMCA nine. Those two teams, he brought into the YMCA and say I got I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, th. th. th. th. th. th. And, and th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, and th. And, and th. And, and, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thry to figure it out. And so they try to do things like, you know, everyone's throwing balls and the whole thing gets crazy and that's stupid. So let's start doing something a little more organized. And they through the month of January begin to develop what are boundaries? What is a shot? What is a shot? What is a shot? What does it mean? the the mean? the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi? thi? thi? thi? thi? thi? thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin? thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, throw, throw, throw, throw, throw, throw, the, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin, thin, thin, thin, th. th. th. the. th. the. the. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. throooooe. know, how do you, what's a foul? And they started to put together some very basic rudiments or what I'll call street rules, right? Like if you, you know, I used to play when I was a kid, because we were poor when I was a kid. But we could always find a place where people were playing basketball. So, you know, and that was pretty rough. their. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. to to to to to to to to to to to to thr. to to to to to to to to to to to to to their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, I I I I their, I I their, I I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I their, I was, I was, I was, their, their, their, thr. thr. thr. thr. thr. toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. I was. I their, I their, I was, I the courts outside. So that's kind of where the thing just. Yeah, I mean like I wonder what the rules were man. I mean like have you ever played back? There was there were no charges and blocks I can guarantee that. Well if you ever play basketball and like somebody there doesn't know how to play and their defense is basically corner back from NFL. They're just shoving shoulders in you other. They're like this is a football bro. It's basketball. So I'm get. I'm, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, theving shoulders in the other. They're like, this is a football, bro. It's basketball.

Starting point is 00:26:08 So I'm right, like, dude, I'm old school dude. I used to watch old Big East basketball. Again, I grew up in the Syracuse area, on the Orangeman, it was at the peak of basketball in the Big East, but I was a Georgetown Hoya fan and there was a rule in Big East basketball which was no layups. You didn't do any layups, man, if you went down, what was the key, you would just get knocked on your ass. I couldn't imagine what these guys were, I mean, it had to be full combat at that point.

Starting point is 00:26:45 They're wearing knee pads. They're wearing knee pads. Yeah, all right, knee pads. That's rough. Right, they were all blocking tackl. But the fact is, they realized that they were trying to develop a game that had some normalcy, right? And it wasn't football. It was something that could be played indoors. So they set up where the boundaries were,

Starting point is 00:27:06 they started to set up what it meant to make a basket. And but in a game, you might make three baskets and a half of the work. It wasn't like today. I mean, you kind of throw a freaking medicine ball. I mean, the circumference ratio of the basket to the ball. Yeah. And it's the thing about that, I mean, it was just, but the thing is, right, well, yeah, the thing is, when it got into the basket,

Starting point is 00:27:32 somebody had to get on a step ladder, the basket out, right? So, but that's what started in January with the businessman nine. So what Lamber Will did is on February, the the th. th. th. th. the th. th, th, the thi, thi, the thi, thi, the thi, the, thi, thi, the, the, thi, the thi, the thi, their, they, thi, thi, they, they, they, they, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, I, I, I, I, thi, I, I, I, I, thi, th. I, th. I, th. I, thi. I, thi. It, thi. It, thi. It, thi. It, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, is, is, they. It's, is, is, is, is, is, they. It's, is, is, is, they. It's, they. It's, thin, thin, thin, the. It's and the YMCA nine. So what Lambert will did is on February 7th, 1891, he took the businessman nine and the YMCA nine and they actually had a game for people to watch. And so they had developed enough rules so that it wasn't mayhem and chaos. And you know, you didn't need stretchers and med devices off to the right because you didn't have that many people pillaged and thrown off into the into the distance with broken bones. And it just so happened February 7th 1891 was Lambert Will's mother's birthday. And she comes back in at a later point. But that's the game where somebody from Little

Starting point is 00:28:16 Falls watched the game and actually said, hey, this is pretty hot. Because remember, this is the YMCA. And the YMCA has its own world. So you can be going into the YMCA and doing a lot of things, but nobody in the community really knows what's going on inside that YMCA, because it's the WMCA. So an individual from Little Falls, was at the game, brought that idea of the game back to Little Falls, they put together a team. And by the end of February of 1891, Little Falls and Herkimer played, which meant Lambert

Starting point is 00:28:52 Will had to take the businessman nine and the YMCA nine and create the Herkimer nine. Therefore the Herkham are nine, that's the reason for the name. So that team thethe Hurtmore 9, was playing against Little Falls, later Utica, and it began to spread out on Mohawk Valley. Who is the first person, who is the first person to get cut? Like is that like the fifth beetle? Wilford Johnson, Wilford Johnson got caught because he was only four foot two and he can grab his hand around the ball. I'm kidding. That would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would would that. That would would that. That would that. That would that. That would that. That would that. That would that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the that's that's their that's their that's that's their that's. And it that he that he that he that he the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the that he. And it. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th. that's that's too. And that's that's that. that's that. that that that that that. And it that he. And it that he was only four foot two and he didn't grab his hand around the ball. No, I'm kidding. That would have been awesome. That's short. Well, yeah, he kept getting neat in the face by people running around. So he's too small.

Starting point is 00:29:33 That's the thing was. So the thing is that that game, you know, end up kind of developing itself in the early part of 1891. But then as spring came, you know, baseball went back to its normal thing, then it went to the football season. And when it ended up happening is because that word had spread, Albany even had brought in people to look at the game, get the list of the rules and bring it back to their world. She had Troy, you had Amsterdam, you had Albany, and so all of these municipalities, that sounds like a

Starting point is 00:30:06 very clinical word, but the places, were readied by the end of 1891 when the winter started knocking football, can't be played, got to work indoors, okay, what are we going to do? We're going to play basketball. So these guys started playing basketball. During this time, and if you look at the Naismith book, and again, I'll just hold it up, because you can go get it and look at it, Naismith was talking about how Gulick, who ran the Springfield YMCA,

Starting point is 00:30:36 was terrorizing them, not in a bad way, but just in a management demanding way, that they figure out a game that can be played indoors during the cold season. And they couldn't think of anything. They tried figuring stuff out, nobody was successful. What we believe happened, but we don't have this specific evidence. What we believe happened was the Springfield sent out a flyer to the Northeast YMCA saying we're looking for a game that can be played indoors, anybody got any ideas.

Starting point is 00:31:06 And what Lamber Will did is he actually wrote up, sent out the concept, the rules to Springfield. He didn't know anything about Naismith. He didn't know what the guy's name. But he sent it to Springfield. Now remember, this is Lamber Will 16. And as you just pointed out, 40 years years the, right? So by the time he's 18, he actually goes off to war, Spanish American war, but in the meantime, this letter goes out

Starting point is 00:31:32 to Springfield, Naismith gets it, and what we believe happened, and I'll give you an example of why we think this is evidenced by the book, is that he took those rules, which again, called street rules. They might have been 85% perfect, right? But he wanted, you know, I don't know if you know about the YMCA, but his mind, body spirit, right? This whole, you know, gentlemanly, become one with yourself, you know, the whole stuff. And so what Nace meant did is he took those rules that Lamberwell gave him and he built them out and published it in January of 92 in a publication called the Triangle. Now the Triangle was almost like you know you will read the Triangle every time it's published. It's that kind of a publication where it talks about policies, it talks about practices. And guess what? Hey, it's talking about a game.

Starting point is 00:32:25 What's the name of the game? Basket, space, ball. Throw the ball into the basket. Here's the rules. And the person that signed or that wrote that article, his name was James Naismith. So you see an article and it gives you the definition of a game, and you see who you James Naismith and that's where I say James Naismith wrote a tsunami. Because what happened is that game took off like lightning because everybody said, instead

Starting point is 00:32:54 of doing gymnastics, I think it was Swedish gymnastics or Swedish stretching or whatever the hell they used to do. Now they had a game that actually related to fun. And so it got adopted very quick and Naismith was defined as the inventor. And guess what? Lambert Will, who's over in the YMCA in Herkimer, they're still playing. They've been playing for a whole year.

Starting point is 00:33:18 And they actually have a 91, and as a matter of fact, there's publication that shows that Albany, remember Albany, Albany had formed a team at the end of 91. And of course, in the Naismith book, Naismith says that he invented it all by himself in his room. I don't know what he was wearing, but I don't even want to think about it. And he had an inspirational period, like a, it's almost like, you know, Moses. I'm down from the universe. Yeah, Joseph Smith, you know,

Starting point is 00:33:51 he saw it in the future and thus the ball bounced, right? He said he wrote up 13 rules. And the thing that really is ironic is the last rule says, in case of a tie, continue to play it's a phone makes a score. Who that? I'm sorry, I built a lot of technology solutions over the last 30 years, 35. And I never got down to that point of definitiveness when I'm just trying to push a concept. If I talk about a solutional system that might manage a lot of content. That's very specific. That's so specific. That it garners and it kind of frames somebody else gave, but nevertheless. Naismith said he invented it in December of 91.

Starting point is 00:34:35 We believe and have evidence that Albany was already putting together their team. Remember Little Falls was already in, Harkham was already in, Utico Zardian, Herkimer Rosardian, Troy, Amsterdam, now Albany, Albany takes on the game and they actually say we're going to have a New York State championship playing Herkimer at the end of February 92. And so there's no way on earth that Albany has a team, Herkimer has a team. They're going to do the New York State Basketball Championship in 92 February if the first time anyone ever heard of basketball was in the middle of January in a publication that took snail mail time to get out to everybody and even longer for people to read.

Starting point is 00:35:22 So all the things that we have that proves the Lamberwill and Herkimer and Utica and Little Falls and so on, we're playing basketball in 91, crushes, and we don't mean it in a bad way, but it crushes Naismith's statement of how it originated. What we believe happened was that tsunami of Nacea's name at the bottom of that publication caused him as quote the inventor to become heralded within the YMCA community. Oh yeah for sure and so so what when he writes these rules is there any evidence that he was actually playing a game? No. There's no evidence. As a matter of fact, later on they talk about, this is really weird, we tried to give him some credit in that sense. Maybe he got the rules and then grab people

Starting point is 00:36:18 together and did something within the YMCA to play it out. And then that seemed to work, and then he, you know, wr-the article. the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. te. te. te. te. th. th. th. th. the. the. the their. their. their. theto play it out. And then that seemed to work. And then he wrote the article, to your point, is there evidence? There's none. Except somebody was saying, and this is historically referenced, that it was in December 21st of 1891. However, we went out to the Springfield College historian. His name is Jeff, and I'll leave it at that. So Jeff said that he, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you th, you th at th at th. th, you th, you, you know, you know, you that, that, that, that, th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. And, th. thi, thin, thin, thi, that that to to that that that that that thin, thi. thi. thi that. So Jeff said them, and we looked at the calendar for 1891, and school was out on the 18th,

Starting point is 00:36:53 which means there was nobody there on the 21st. So whoever injected the 21st and collected that together as the day of the first game of basketball wasn't thinking straight, but even worse, I don't know if you've ever seen the rules of basketball as they are depicted in the Kansas display. Where you look that up? That's where the guy paid, I forget the guy's name, paid $4.3 million for what he called what Ian, Ian Naismith, which he calls himself Yon. But I had a son called Ian,

Starting point is 00:37:25 and I spelled it the same way, so I'm gonna use the term, Ian Naismith, sold it for $4.3 million, but if you look at the rules, and we depict this in the book, if you look at the rules on the very bottom of the second page. That's for high school basketball, some league in Kansas. Go, yeah, go, go, what you're going to type in the Naismith. That we're all in trouble. Basketball rules. Yeah,

Starting point is 00:37:53 N-Smith Basketball. Well I can show you, I can show you, but you won't be able to see it that clearly. It's in the Naismith book actually. The second page of the rules has a date. Did you try an image search? It's right there. They're right there. He found them. He found them. No.

Starting point is 00:38:13 What? What? theymea. theymeak. theymeak. theyme. Oh, there. It's the second page on the bottom right.

Starting point is 00:38:31 I don't know how much. That's as much as it's going to go there. But you'll see, okay, so when you get a chance to look at it really close, what you're going to see is it has DEC as per December, and it has 1891. Now, the problem with that is when you look real close, you're going to look and see that the number, the word that was underneath you, I go to the right. Okay, so all there.

Starting point is 00:39:02 Now look at deck. Now if you notice, that looks like it's something written over top of a smudge. And if you look real close at the D.E. You'll see what looks like the top part of an F written in script. I agree. I think you're right. Say this again one more time. Look where it says December right next to 1891. It's clearly written over the top of something else that looks strange like February. Oh yeah yeah yeah but even worse and this is where it comes into you know the thresh that when you do a lie and I don't mean this in a nefarious way when you try to keep the

Starting point is 00:39:40 tsunami alive and you're riding it like a surfboard you want to make sure that what you have is consistency so that you never contradict yourself because it's hard to remember all the aspects of the lie. And so if you ever were to look at, I'm going to hold up this book and I'm going to tell you the page number, page number 62. This is Naismith's book. This is not anyone else's book. But if you look in here, and I'm going to try to bring it in as close as possible, you'll see the Feb 1892 at the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:40:16 Okay. So this page in the Naismith book has Feb 1892. Ah. So you see what ended up happening was because Frank J. Basil wrote the Basil book. Oh my God, it's right there. Yeah, so they, what we believe happened, and that by the way, the James, the the forgery. But it's in the most loving of ways. What we believe happened was, possibly Ian Naismith, we believe is a forgery, but it's in the most loving of ways. What we believe happened was possibly E in Naismith. But you look at the S in James,

Starting point is 00:40:52 the S has this little loop on top. That loop does not exist in the normal signatures of James Naismith, nor does the N in Naismith continue to the A. Naismith always went in and then started the A on the top. So the thing is what we believe happened was that this thing that was supposedly posted had Feb 1892 without any James Na Smith without any 6, 2831 and all that stuff. Someone asked the person who bought the $4.3 million. Smith with any 6, 2831 and all that stuff. Someone asked the person who bought the $4.3 million surprise pot and said, did you notice that that deck looks like it's written over top of a Fed?

Starting point is 00:41:36 And he goes, yeah, yeah, that they were just trying to get the date right. Now, I don't know about most humans, but James Smith, if he really did generate that thing and post it. He would have known whether it's February it, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $4.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3.3. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the th. the th. the theismith, if he really did generate that thing and posted, he would have known whether it's February 1892 or December 1891, because he was living there at that time. He was alive and he was writing it. So there's no confusion on the origin of it being Feb 1892. But then it becomes very confusing. And this is why the Naismith story is almost like falling down a set of stairs,

Starting point is 00:42:07 except the stairs just don't stop. And you just keep rolling and rolling and rolling. Because here you got these rules that were handwritten. In the book of Naismith, he says he handwrote the rules and gave them to somebody Mrs. Leone's to type up. And he took the typeded version version version version version version version version version version version version version version version version version version version version version version, and to the. And he took the typed version and posted it on the bulletin board for the players to read. In that handwritten one, he says, this is what I posted so that the players might know how to play the game or something to that effect.

Starting point is 00:42:36 Well, was it the handwritten rule or was it the typed rules? the rule, the rules that were in the Triangle publication that came out in January of 1892? Why rewrite it in hand, date in Feb 1892 and put it on the bulletin board for kids to play? So all these things beginning become very troubling when we looked at the Will story versus the Naismith story. So I'll stop for right now so you can. Hey guys, I want to tell you about our friends at Helix. Listen, you spend most of your life on your bed, right? Some of us a little bit more than others.

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Starting point is 00:45:34 When were these? The reason is that what I, we believe happened, and this is where the Hall of Fame had the original rules as they were supposedly posted in 51, or whatever date they put their world together. And those rules were owned by the Naismith family. Now, this is a back story. This is where you get into kind of like, maybe it's almost rumor mill time, right? But Ian Naismith, and the Naismith family

Starting point is 00:46:07 looked at Grandpa and said, Grandpa, you invented a game that's played all over the world and you didn't make a single dollar on it. What kind of businessman are you? Damn. And so what ended up happening is Naismith put together this website. I can't remember the name of that, but Ian Naismette, put theogether this website, I can't remember the name of that, but Ian Nacebeth put together website.

Starting point is 00:46:25 And it actually calls out for kind of like extending what Springfield talked about his mind, body spirit, you know, gentlemanly play, be your neighbor, you know, love everyone, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the irony of that is that website, which he needed to fund, which is where that $4.3 million was going to go, to fund that website and its purpose of trying to bring basketball to the communities in the area. That chanting that you got to be a gentleman is definitely offset by an interview that Ian Naismith later had,

Starting point is 00:47:07 the 10 year ago against the Fosti brother saying, I'm sick of this Herkimer story, if somebody brings it up to me again, I'm gonna punch him in the face and I can do it because I'm a 260 pound guy. Oh, man. And you're thinking, hey, J, hey, Ian, you know, calm down. Be a brother, you know, listen to your own words, right? So the irony of all these things juxtaposed them,

Starting point is 00:47:29 but what we believe happened was the Springfield papers that those two sheets were taken out of the Hall of Fame by Ian Naismith, they were extracted. And we believe they then were altered as you saw. So the picture that existed in when the book here was published which was 1939 had Feb 1892. Why do we know that? It's in the book. Later, Ian Naismith, not clearly thinking that maybe somebody took a picture of the darn thing. Oh my god! decided to alter it so that he could compete with the 1891 profile that Herkimer was professing.

Starting point is 00:48:09 That's damning. Oh, it's damning. That is incredible. Yeah, no, this is, I mean, it has so many stories and side stories and, but it all kind of bumps into, I kind of feel, you know, and if you ever get and read this book, remember, we'll go back to this one, Naismith, right? In the end of the book, what we put out is more George Fosti's writing is there actually is a whole community of communities that actually took on basketball in the early 1891, 1892, 1893. They were like the seed and the miracle grow, right, in this region. And that include Holyoke, that include places in New Jersey, in Pennsylvania, out in Cornell.

Starting point is 00:48:55 And so what we want to be able to do is to take this origins of basketball, and actually, we call a basketball road, which is where you go to the places where basketball birthed, where it became, you know, something that was played. We know it was originated in Herkimer, but it really had a lot of support all along the Mohawk Valley,

Starting point is 00:49:15 going down the Hudson, into New York, into Pennsylvania, New Jersey. And so we want to try to identify all the communities. that's where the George and Dorg George, you is, you is, you is, you is, you is, you is, you is thogea, you thogea, you thogea, thogea, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. We, th. thi, we thi, we thi, we thi, we thi, we thi, we thi, we thi. thi. the. the. the. thean. thean. that that that's, that's, that that's, that's, thean. thean. thean. thean. the. th where those, you know, George and Darrell being the historians, really kind of get off on thinking, wow, we can get down on those communities. Is there anything still there that was around when basketball was being played? If so, can we profess it?

Starting point is 00:49:35 Can we announce it? Can we make it visible? But that's what they're really looking to do. So Neismithsmith, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to get to get to get to get to, to, to to, to, to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, too, they., they. they. they. the, the. toooooooooooome, too, too, too, tooown in. There's an article that came out in January of 1893, and this is a very important article that's analyzed in the book. If you think of 1892, the publication of the Triangle, the tsunami of wow, this is a hot game that went on with Naismith being the trailer, I am the originator. What ends up happening is Goulic. Now remember Goulick is the director of the Springfield YMCA. He's not a legal pundit. But what he puts out in an article in 1893, January, and it's in the book, is that it defines what an inventor is.

Starting point is 00:50:27 It defines the criteria of an inventor. And what it does is he says, Naismith is the inventor, but he's too humble to admit it. So let me tell you why he's the inventor. And he goes through the story, talking about how ideation or the idea isn't anything until it's turned into, you know, the, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the game, the game, the game, the game, the game, the game, the game, the game, the game, the thi, thi, thi, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is. the the the the the, is..................... the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thin, thin, thin, thin, the. the. the. the. thee. thean. thean. the. thean. thee. the. the. the. the. the. how ideation or the idea isn't anything until it's turned into, you know, when the game becomes a product, that's the invention. Not all this other stuff to happen before. Oh my God, dude, that's so crazy. Oh, it's nuts. I think that's one of the things Scott found that he kind of freaked out. Because Scott was digging, Scott Flansburne. Human calculator. Yeah, we had a lot of people, including myself, going off in every direction,

Starting point is 00:51:09 looking for historic documentation. By the way, there was a weird thing that happened where contents, there's a thing called the Herkimer YMCA Review, and the Herkimer YMCA Review is a publication that started in 1890 here and was 1891, 92, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we found that all of these documents, whether they're articles or whatever, just kind of vanished during that period. As if somebody came in and did a special ops retrieval, right, and went to Shredderland and went went, br-r-r-br-br-br. And so I'm not saying that that did happen. But the Springfield team, which is Hickok, H-I-C-K-O-X,

Starting point is 00:51:54 Hickok's, was the guy who was actually running the evaluation of where the Hall of Fame should be, he said in an article that was quoting him, theee, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and, and, and, the, and, and, and, and, the, the, the, and, and the-a, and, and, and, and, and the-a, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the-s, the-s, the-s, thee-s, thee-s, thee-s, thean, thean, thean, and thean, and the-s, and the-s, and, and was quoting him, that he and another person were gonna go to Herkimer and Utica and look for the information and evidence about Herkimer being the origin, but the Hall of Fame is still gonna be in Springfield, which is kind of weird because now we look and we're trying to find stuff, and where we found a very critical article is out of Syracuse. The Seracuse Herald, the Sunday Herald, thiauuuuu. thiiiioli, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thu, thu, thu, to to to to to to to to to to thu, thu, thu, thu, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.a. thi. toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooomu., tooomerald, the Sunday Herald, in 1898,

Starting point is 00:52:27 has an article with a picture of the team at that time. It was a different picture than the one you've seen, because it's the picture at that time. And it speaks of Herkimer as a place where basketball's been played for seven years, do the math, it's 81. But then he gets into, you know, Herkimer first originated their team in 1891, they have 35 games. In 1891, this is the team and the captain was this, and it gets into such detail. And the problem is that

Starting point is 00:52:58 people will look at that article and say, that was planted in 1898. And then you really got a, you know, just like the 16-year-old is not a 40-year-old, there was then a 40-year-old. You gotta think, in 1898, you can write an article about what's going on in the local region. And you actually have the people in the local region. Reading what you're writing. Yeah. If you got some guy's name in there, and it's got a lot of names, and you've got dates and you've got specific things, you'll look like a monkey fool if what you wrote has no relevance

Starting point is 00:53:32 to reality. Yeah, what you're talking about is like there was a time when there was accountability. And at the same time it was local news for local people. It was a local news setting the stage for later on 100 years later. things. things. things. thi. thi. thi.. thi thi thi thi. thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And thi. And for local people. It was local news setting the stage for later on 100 years later, somebody will find it. And because of that, the origin of basketball, which probably will be controversial can be decided. But I've heard someone,

Starting point is 00:53:56 I won't give the person's name because it's not a compliment. But one individual, when I showed him this article, they said, that's fake news. I said, what the hell the hell the hell the hell the hell the hell the hell the hell the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. It was th. It's thi thi. It's thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. It was, thi. It's, thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It was was was was was was thi. It was thi. It was thi. It was thi. It was thi. It was thi. It was thi. It was thi. It's the. It's the. the. thea. th. thea. thea. thea. It's thea. thi.that's fake news. I said, what the hell are you talking about? Fake news? There was no fake news back then. I mean, there might have been, but it wasn't like this. It was on page 9. It wasn't like selling magazines that you put up, you know, like the inquire, being, you know, duck hatches out of the back of a, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, thuilver, of, of a, of a, of a wolverine or something, you know.

Starting point is 00:54:26 So all these things that we pulled together and gathered have so much evidentiary material that proves that Herkimer was the origin, Lambert will was the originator, uh, Lambert being the birthplace, but the community of Mohawk Valley really was the gestator of the game and its adoption. Well you know it's like there's what I find super interesting and the whole thing is like mind-blowing to me because there's really no need for it and it just it's super sad that somebody has to lie for clout and the region has to lie for tax, for you know, tourist dollars and stuff.

Starting point is 00:55:09 But the notion, right, of making rules for a game you've never played, is like the concept of like, we're just gonna make rules, like in combat, right? Hand-to-hand combat. Why is there no eye gouging or knee to the groin or punch to the groin? Well, because it's been done enough to know

Starting point is 00:55:31 that that's kind of cheating and could do a type of permanent damage that would hurt the fighter for a lot longer than just the time in the ring or the octagon. So that's how you know. the notion you can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can can that you can that you can that you can that you can that you can that you can that you can that you in the ring or the octagon. So that's how you know. The notion that you can make rules for something that has never been played before is so absolutely hilarious. It happened right. It happened up to the government rules for the not for me. Yeah yeah yeah yeah making rules yeah but but that's not even no nope you're totally off on that one. I was just saying, they may rule, sometimes that they don't follow. By the way, Naismus said he did it in two hours.

Starting point is 00:56:09 Uh, they said he, they said he did it in two hours. He made those rules in two hours. He wrote him up because he had it so. Hilarious. You know what this makes me think a think think th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. th. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the. the. the. the. th. th. th had some document, extant documentation that they've been able to find. Think about all the history that's been, you know, it's distended to us now that is similarly fishy in origin that they don't have documentation for that. We've just taken as gospel. Yeah, that's what, that begs those questions. I mean, Johnny, how many religions are just based on somebody say, oh yeah, this was told

Starting point is 00:56:45 to me by somebody and you don't think this happened in other sports? But you don't think this happened in other sports? You don't think the origins of soccer is said it happened in Spain. Someone says it happened in Mexico. Well, I mean, if you take a look at baseball actually bring that up in the book is that, you know, it wasn't double day because he was actually in military training school at the time. So he couldn't have originated. So that became unfolded.

Starting point is 00:57:14 And there's actually a caveat at the Baseball Hall of Fame, or Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, by the way, Cooperstown was only 28 miles for us on Route 28. And of course, Scott enjoys that because he's a numbers guy. But the same thing happened to them, right? Double Day was not the originator. But that's how the Hall of Fame got into Cooperstown. So, so, and a big reason that they obviously don't want the story an alternative beginning is because again

Starting point is 00:57:45 these rules of basketball are so valuable if they're actually the the rules that created basketball so it's like we go back to the guy who just paid what a million dollars for Tom Brady's last football four million right? Yeah yeah yeah four million dollars that. That ball's worth nothing right now. That ball is worth nothing right now because it's not gonna be his last pass. And then you get into all the reasons, everything was gonna go on with that.

Starting point is 00:58:15 You know, the whole, Brian Flores thing, why he really got fired is because Tom Brady made a back door deal to go in and become part owner of the dolphins and then bring in Sean Payton. So they had to get rid of Flores. Now this all comes out and it's way more than that. But going back to this story is like there's so much like even MMA, right? They talk about how the UFC was the invention of MMA No, there were these fights going on way before that.

Starting point is 00:58:47 But for money, profit, historical reasons, you have to set this kind of timeline. So if they found a new document about the new rules of basketball, there was a little bit of evidence behind it, you think NBA will suppress it? What do you mean, Xavier, there's a book out on it with a total lot of evidence about it? I know that there is but you're saying to any sport they would suppress it like they would have to change the rules what I'm trying to say if there was these rules where you didn't have to double dribble it would be like no they wouldn't change Why not? Sorry about this. This is my intern. We've let it talk today.

Starting point is 00:59:26 Then why not let it out because of just tradition? Well, because it just like Kansas, right? The Jayhawks, a lot of their history is based on the fact Like, it's all about money. It's all money. So do you know the only losing coach with a losing record in Kansas Jayhawk history is? Nacemith. The only guy. He's the most losing his coach.

Starting point is 01:00:01 Right. I mean like, oh, so everything is by the way the rules continue to change as you develop just like just like they did in January and February by the way just so you're aware the basket remember we let's go back to 91 in the basket right they realized that the basket and getting out of a step ladder and getting the ball out really sucked so they cut the bottom out of it. And when they cut the bottom out of it. And when they cut the bottom out of it, it reduced the structural integrity. And so a couple Madison ball sitting in the wrong way,

Starting point is 01:00:31 and poof, you don't have a basket. So Herkimer was the first, the guy at the Herkimer Ironworks, actually said, Lambert Will and this guy put together this rim. So the rim was there, but when you use the rim, you couldn't really sure that the thing went through because there's no way to really tell. So Lambert Will's mother, who they referred to as the Betsy Ross of basketball, actually knitted the net.

Starting point is 01:00:57 So when the ball went through the rim, the net because they couldn't tell when the ball went in or out and need something like a whoosh. Yeah, I get something to, like, represent the whoosh. But by the way, also in 93 in the Mohawk because the YMCA kind of fell apart in Herkimer. They ended up starting, they took the Herkimer 9 and they played in a village right next door called Mohawk and in the Mohawk Armory. Now the Mohawk Armory had a similar gymnasium area,

Starting point is 01:01:34 let's use that term, open area, but the walls were metal. And so when the ball hit the metal, it didn't rebound the same way. I mean, it was like, woo, that thing's coming back fast. So they invented the first backboard. So not only was the game invented in Herkimer, the first rim, the first net, but also in Mohawk, by way of Lambert Will and Carpenter, was the first backboard. Also, the first professional game where they charged 20 cents, which means it became a protein, was Herkimer.

Starting point is 01:02:08 So there's a lot of first, but the one thing you want to remember, try to tell me one other place that has a human's name in it as it relates to the International Hall of Fame or the I don't care what Sport Hall of Fame, none of them. Except basketball. The James Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. Why? Because you gotta keep repeating the line. Yeah, yeah, beat him down, beat him down, beat him down, beat him down, beat him down, beat him down with it. And there's just so many people that just have, you know, and you know what else? And this, I don't ththis, this is Brian, this is not Brian talking, this is straight up Sam Tripoli talking,

Starting point is 01:02:50 but you know how I know that this is fishy, Duke wanted to get in on it too. Duke wanted to buy the original rules of basketball. And I don't trust Duke as far as I can kick Duke. So it's like that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th is just th is just th is just th is just, thi, thi, th is just th is just th is just th is just, th is just is just, th is just, th is just, th is just, th is just, th is, th is, th is, th is, th is, th is, th is, th is, the the th is, the the the the the th is just, th is just, th is just, th is just, th is just just just just, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thri. thri. thri. thri. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. you know some craziness. My question to you is, so the gentleman you say is actually the inventor of the game, right? Lambert Will. What is his family say? Well, Lamber Will himself was with Frank J. Basilow going out to Springfield, and Lambert Will was telling them, I invented the game. I'm the guy who did this. He's relaying to them the story of how it actually was created. They're showing as much evidence as they could.

Starting point is 01:03:33 I think where they screwed up, as they said, Naismith came to Springfield in August of 91, or the fall of 91. When they said those words, the Hall of Fame or the Springfield people said, wrong, you're a year off. Everything you're talking about is a year off. They used that one accident because Naismith actually entered Springfield YMCA in August of 90. And so that one statement, however it was framed

Starting point is 01:04:02 within the way that they were trying to prove their point, but Labor Will was right there. They got nailed as saying their, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you're a their their their a year, you're a year, you're a year, you're a year their their a year, you're a year, you're a year, you're their, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're their, you're their, you're their, you're their, you're their, you're their, you're their their their their their their, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you're a their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their trying to prove their point, but Lambert Will was right there. They got nailed as saying you're two years off. You actually started playing basketball in 93. You don't even know it. You don't remember. And the guy's going, well, I think I do. But it didn't matter. So his whole family had actually tried to continue this, let's say, this movement, but, you know, the Lambert Will family really weren't a bunch of argumentative, aggressive, a type personality people to go after something, to prove a point just to prove the point. So they kind of went domicile and kind of faded out, except Philip Baruth, who's a senator in Vermont, is one of the Lambert Will great-grandsons. And what he did is he took all of the evidence they had

Starting point is 01:04:51 and he gave it to the Springfield Hall of Fame because they agreed on the 100-year anniversary, that's 1991, they agreed to post something about Lambert Will. They kind of said, well, we'll give you a plaque. We'll give you a display. So they literally gave them a display. And on it, they hand wrote with the picture of the team that you might have seen, well, you saw that one in the book, right?

Starting point is 01:05:18 On the cover. They put underneath it, they actually, yeah, under the, that, they put 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, w, w, the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, they. the, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. the, the, well, the, well, the, the, they actually, yeah, underneath that, they put 1892, 1893, Herkimer team and gave the names. It was like, what the hell? So what we think happened is between 91 and 94, the the thin, the the theo thin, a lot of conflict started happening. Because they started looking at that, they saw the 91, 92, and why are you listening, and that, and th, th, th, and th, th, and th, th, th, th, and th, th, th, and th, looking at that, they saw the Baslow book, they saw the 91-92, why are you listening to that 92-93? And the Hall of Fame people just said, I'm sick of this shit.

Starting point is 01:05:50 And so what they did is they dusted it. Now we don't know where it went, but it's gone, it's no longer in the Hall of Fame, hasn't and this is the senator in Vermont, officially asking, please give me back my stuff. The Hall of Famous refused to return it. Dude! Wow! I would never! Never!

Starting point is 01:06:14 Hey, give me any of that. I'd be like, here's copies of it. You can run with it. Well, there's even something worse. As Frank J. Baslow had what we call Edward Beckingham's scrapbook. And in the scrapbook were all the articles that we just spent a year and a half finding.

Starting point is 01:06:32 The originals of, or as close to the originals as we could get. And we believe, because there's an article that talks about how the two camps camps got together and exchanged documents. Hmm. Nobody can find Edward J. Beckingham's scrapbook. But it was something that Frank J. Basil carried almost like, almost like it was, you know, his passport overseas, right? Can't lose this. We think he gave it to the Hall of Fame and it went, the same way the other stuff went. We'll throw that away for you. Yeah, oh, thank you for that.

Starting point is 01:07:06 We'll take care of that. We'll shred it. You'll never get it back. It's just unbelievable, dude. How like, how people just, integrity means nothing. Everything's about a dollar. And it's just like some people, you know, I mean you see movies about it. Like did you ever see a free guy with yeah, yeah with Ryan Reynolds?

Starting point is 01:07:31 That's a whole story that he didn't invent that. That's a whole and we see this over and over and over again. People taking credit for things that they did. Well dude, the Uber guy, you know, Travis Kalanic, he, he took, he went around telling everybody he invented Uber. And the guy who actually came up with the idea was his buddy, you know, who's also on the board and stuff and it's still there. But, I mean, that's an interesting point. In the book we take, it's actually George does an excellent job, him and Daryl, of finding content that Naismith supposedly claimed credit for inventing the breathalyzer.

Starting point is 01:08:07 He also claimed credit for inventing the hairdrier. He also, he's a serial bullshit artist. Back then it was doable. Back then you could be a bullshit artist all day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. There was no phone people used to lie. Oh, I was at the so-and-so World Cup game. Now you can't say that without without without th that, you that, that, that, that, that, that, th, th, that, th, th, th, thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the the the the the the the the bri, the bri, the bri, the bri, the bring, the br, the br, the br, the br, the br, the br, the br, the br, the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thean, thean, thea'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a, thi, thi, thi, I got it. There was no phone people used to lie like, oh, I was at the so-and-so World Cup World Cup game. Now you can't say that without showing a picture of like, look I was there, look at my Instagram.

Starting point is 01:08:30 I was, yeah, right now, no, no, we won't believe that anymore. Well, I mean, I just, uh, Brian, I don't know. I thought earlier said you were involved in some sort of tech stuff. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I. Yeah, I. Yeah, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I mean, you want to get into it. Eli Musk as a real history of rewriting history. People believe he invented PayPal. People think he invented Tesla. But does he say that though? Yeah. I mean, dude, he basically went in and had them rewrite both of those. He did not invent those. There are actual, you can find out who the actual inventors were. And you know, like it's so interesting that he's getting a lot, you know, that he's made a lot of his fortune off of Bitcoin. If you kind of think about it, PayPal is the first digital currency in a weird, I mean,

Starting point is 01:09:23 outside of credit cards, right? But like PayPal is where you're paying each other in digital money. You're transiting. Why do you think that PayPal are trying to outdo them now? Well, yeah, I do think that PayPal's in trouble with that. But I think that's Zell's game is that they're going to make it so cheap and once everyone moves off of PayPal and moves to Zell, then they're going to start charging you all this stuff. Well, that's the reason Zell is great. You don't even have to move to it. There's nothing to do.

Starting point is 01:09:51 You know what I mean? Right, but it's the old Walmart way way of operating you're the one there you start slowly raising your prices again. They got the money to do it. They got the money they got they got the money to do it. But it's so interesting because like like so much of the Laurel of Kansas of Springfield is completely based off this and just lie after lie after lie and we just see the of like, of like the creators being basically blackballed, sadly involving some people being kind of like, literally being scrubbed from history to keep the lie going. I mean, like, we could get into like, where did Facebook come from?

Starting point is 01:10:43 All that stuff, like, where did these things come from? Oh yeah, they were actually invented by somebody else. Well, you see them invented by these contemplative like you were saying, type B personalities and then there's these profiteering type A types that swove in and start taking credit. I mean, it's a just as old as history that story. You know happens happens th th th th th th th th th, it happens th, it happens th, it happens th, it happens th, it happens th, it's th, it's th, it's th, it's th, it's th, it's th, th, thi, thi, thiol-like, thiol-I thi-like, thi-like, thi-like, thi-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. thi. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. they's thi. thi. thi. thinin. thin. thin. thiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. they were they were they were they were they were actually they as old as history that story. You know, it happens over and over again. 100.

Starting point is 01:11:06 This is why this is so believable even without the mountains of evidence he's presented as just that you see it over and over. It's just super sad because, you know, there's certain ways you could write this so that everybody involved gets credit. Because if you, that's how, by the way, that's how the book ends. The book ends talking about how certain individuals should be accredited for what they really contributed. And we, and in the book it talks about Naismith and Goulick as being, you know, critical to the growth of the of the industry of basketball, but not the inventor. And then we talk about other individuals that should be brought in their, their, their, their, their, their, th, th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thin, theeeeeeee an thin. thee an toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. the, the, the inventor. And then we talk about other individuals that should be brought into the Hall of Fame

Starting point is 01:11:45 because of their contribution. But it really also gets into it, I talked about before the basketball road, which is there are municipalities that didn't even know that they help start the real growth of basketball. And so it really kind of gets into, kind of like that, can't we all get along at the end, but in the right perspective, right? Take your real seat, not the one you kick the other guy out of, right? Well, it's super interesting.

Starting point is 01:12:10 Brian, great episode. Can I ask one real technical? A brief technical question. What were medicine balls back then? What were medicine balls? You know, I haven't got the foggiest for good idea. Okay, isn't it? I've always just wondered, what are people doing with medicine balls back? Well, a lot of times the medicine ball was used for hand-eye coordination and throwing.

Starting point is 01:12:29 So what you would do is you'd have people lined up and you'd be throwing the ball. And if you think of a pitch out, right? Yeah. It's something that type of thing plus, you know, they're a little heavier Yeah, and you know, and which of course was worse for the poor basket That's yeah, yeah, yeah, I was getting this a good. Um, okay. So nevertheless, and by the way the hercomber nine program is focus solely on taking the evidence which which we now have in the book, and then trying to figure out,

Starting point is 01:13:09 and we have a lot of plans for how Perkimer can actually support those that want to investigate. There will be a museum. And if you think of the chronology, we have a thing we call the chronology of the history of basketball, and it has three tracks. One track is Frank, the the the the the the the the thol, thamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamam. tham. tham. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to, is tog is tog. tog. to, is to, is tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. tog of basketball. And it has three tracks. One track is Frank J. Basil, the guy that wrote that book you just showed. The middle track is Lambert Will

Starting point is 01:13:30 and the origin of basketball and the invention and the development and the birthing out of it. And the third one is Naismith, and how he was doing nothing until all of a sudden he received something. And then all of a sudden he went went went went wentthose three tracks if you think of it from a historic perspective, what we're going to be doing is these the court we actually have a courthouse in Herkimer that said what we call the historic four corners and these are 18 hundreds buildings that are still in pristine condition. We're going to take over the courthouse and actually put, and it kind of makes sense, court, house, basketball, court, put together a physical and a digitally connectable, meaning you can walk in with a cell phone with the Harker 9 app, and you can actually be told, narrated,

Starting point is 01:14:19 the experience of the game and its origin and development without having to read a lot of stuff. But you could read stuff. And so this whole thing of trying to develop this out is really what we're looking to do. We also have a building called the LW Bills School, which is on the area where the first high school basketball game was ever played. And in that building, which is no longer used as a school, we're gonna turn into the high school basketball hall of fame. So the kids can actually be recognized during their youth.

Starting point is 01:14:49 So if somebody comes and they're 35, and they say, I remember, I was at that school, they go over there, hey, there's my picture. And it allows people to kind of centralize their mind on basketball as it is played across the world, instead of just going to the Hall of Fame and seeing the elite of the elite. And so there's a lot of things that we're looking to do to try to raise up what, and you've got the ABA, right, which again, Herkimer originals, ABA, we're looking to work with Joe Newman and bring the ABA into Hercimer as far as, you know, as it relates to, because, you know,

Starting point is 01:15:25 there's no headquarters of the ABA really. And so we believe that the ABA could be headquartered in Herkimer because then we can bring ABA information and those that play under the NBA level, bring them up in a historic way so that those that actually played well, but maybe they weren't in the NBA, maybe they weren't in the Hall of Fame, they can be in the quote museum that will develop that really respects basketball from its true origin to its gameplay today. I respect that. I totally respect, I don't know. It's so interesting. You know, it's a different sport, but it's like pride compared to the UFC, like everything in the UFC Hall fame is about fighting the UFC, but there are so many

Starting point is 01:16:10 great fighters in Pride, and they don't get the respect to deserve. And like you kind of talk about, there's a lot of people in ABA that didn't get the love and respect that they deserve from the NBA Hall of Fame, which is the pro-basket hool of fame, but you really don't see that. So I think that's very important. And you know what's so interesting is you kind of get into soccer, like soccer's super interesting. Like here we go again. In 1863, they'll tell you England invented soccer, but there's evidence that goes all the way back to China in the second. 16, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. So, th. So, th. So, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th, th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, the the the the the the, the and the thin, the the the thin, the thin, the the thin, the and the and thin, the and the and thate and that, thi, there's evidence that goes all the way back to China in the second century. Right, right.

Starting point is 01:16:51 And the Mayans and everything else. Yeah. They should have, they should probably find print that says using a ball, not human heads. Yeah, yeah. Right, with or without hair. Yeah, no, I think with hair it's harder to kick. Yeah. What would you have to say before we let Brian call?

Starting point is 01:17:12 No, I was just going to say, is there anybody that claims to have created basketball other than them to? Is there anybody else that you hear their fucking be like, hey, it's me, I'm here too? Yeah, there is one that's Holyoke, and we mentioned it in the book, right? Holyoke was actually on what we call the train line from the Mohawk Valley, right? So you go through Albany to go out into Massachusetts and one of the first places you hit will be Holyoke.

Starting point is 01:17:36 And there is controversy as to whether Naismettea. attended a game being played in Holyoke in the end of 91 and brought that into Springfield. Because there's somebody that on their, I won't say on their deathbed, but I'm saying during their last breath, year of breath, right, whatever it was, they said that they brought Naismith in and had them watch a game before Naismith supposedly invented the game. We think if that did happen, it happened because just like Albany knew how to play to play to play to play to play. to play, to play, to play, the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. the th. Because, th. Because, th. Because, th. Because, thi thi thi thi thoing, th. Because, thi, because thi. Because, because th. Because, because th, because th, because th, because th, because th, because th, because th, because th, because th, because th, because th, because th, because they, because they, because, because, because, because, because, because, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they. Because, they. Because, they. Because, they. Because, they's they's thi's thi's thi. Because, because they. Because, the game. We think if that did happen, it happened because, just like Albany knew how to play, so could Holyoke, and therefore at the end of 91, when again, people were playing, that was the 91, 92 season.

Starting point is 01:18:17 But of course, you only knew it if you really looked in the Mohawk Valley in the area, but Holyoke may have been, may have started playing, and that's why we believe they're part of the basketball road, because Holyoke definitely adopted it early. And so they're the only other ones that say we invented it. Damn, it's so crazy and basketball. What are you thin? their thound?

Starting point is 01:18:44 Are you fan of the new style? Are you a fan of what's going on? I mean, it's truly amazing. If you kind of think how much money basketball players are making now and they can, and then we'll let you go Brian. It's truly amazing. And you've got to think about that. Basketball is only on baseball and football is.

Starting point is 01:19:11 Mag the expanse. How about you? You know something. I'm also a closet drummer, right? As a matter of fact, it's a matter of fact, my drum set is right there. But, but I'm I'm gonna use a correlation between basketball and music. If you take somebody that plays music for the love of music, and all of a sudden they become a hit. Their love of music becomes commercialized,

Starting point is 01:19:38 and they lose their love of music, and now they become servants of the commercial music. And I see it happen a lot. Because I can feel and sense when somebody transitions from, I'm an artist and this is what I feel, to I'm a player and this is what I have to perform. And the same thing in basketball, if you look at the ABA, and I mean, you know, I've been,

Starting point is 01:20:00 this is the first team we had, they're from originals but you watch these guys play, and these guys could be as old as 50 and as young as 26. Yeah, but they're playing with their hearts and they really, they're playing because they love it. They might get a hundred bucks for playing the game. But they're playing for the love of the game. Once you get into what you were just talking their the a their their their. Some of them maintain their pure, the nature of them. But some people get wrapped up in, you know, the prestige, the dollar, you know, they do the

Starting point is 01:20:30 jump shots, they do the slam dunks in a way that says, I hope you caught that one, you know, and that's in their mind. Instead of doingthink your point is well taken that it becomes almost plastic at the NBA level for some. But at the ABA level, it remains true basketball for the love of the sport. I just feel that like there's so much money now. That's all so guaranteed that I just think that they need to make some significant changes now before it gets away with it. And you know when I was in college in the 90s I dated this woman who was a classically trained dancer and she told me very early she goes when you start getting paid to do what you love it no longer

Starting point is 01:21:24 becomes your love it becomes a job and it changes and now you won't do it for a certain amount of money you won't do this you don't do that now I still go almost anywhere to do stand I was about to say sometimes we've been on the road and someone be like you won't do five minutes you're like look at me like you want to like I'm gonna go yeah I'm like you just him, I'm like, I'm tired, like, I'm gonna go. And I'm like, you just got, you just did 40 and kind of complained about it, but then you went, you got a new crowd, dude, you're like, this is a new crowd. I forget I was gonna do New Orleans and so they, because of the weather, they couldn't get me to New Orleans. And we'd only sold about 40 tickets. And people like you're you you th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You're th. You're th. You're th. You got thin, you went th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got th. You got the. You got th. the. the. the. the. I'll go, I'll go perform for two people. I don't care.

Starting point is 01:22:06 Deal's done, dog. I'll be one of those persons. I look at the tongue. I'm like, you went because there was no ticket sales. And he looked at me, he's like, you should know me by now. I'm showing up and I'm showing up to enjoy New Orleans. Brian, great conversation. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm really into this whole thing and I'm glad you could, you took some time and I hope that our listeners enjoyed this episode because it's a nice

Starting point is 01:22:35 little change of pace for us. And again, tell them where they could find you. Yeah, so you can find us at hercomimer9.com or Herkimer 9.org but also you can pick up the book at Amazon. It's also it's in hard cover, soft cover and Kindle. But really check out the book, discuss it with friends, get others to buy the book. It isn't so much the sale of the book, is this spreading of the word. And to that point, I really appreciate where you guys are doing, which is allowing us to discuss it. And hopefully people find it intriguing, interesting, but also having a very thick thread of truth. So thank you very much. Brian, it was great. I know, for me, it's like anytime there is, um, to see, I think people need

Starting point is 01:23:20 to talk about it. I think, allow one lie, we allow a lot of lies. And you know, nobody's perfect. But you know, this seems like a pretty blatant one for the point of, you know, I think it should be recognized. I mean, if they want to keep the Hall of Fame in Springfield, that's fine. They could do whatever they want, but they should give this young man. Did we ever find, so he goes to war, he comes back, okay? And he's like, magic go in the war, fight, he's come back, and there's this whole ecosystem based on something you invented,

Starting point is 01:23:55 that you're not getting any piece of it. With, wow. Baslow asked him that question. And there's actually evidence in the book showing that Baslow had discussed that with him and he asked him why didn't you say something earlier and he goes nah that didn't need it. I didn't need the fame. I'm just happy that a head of cabbage created so much fun for me and others and that was his take. I mean the guy came out of the war and ended up living in Little Falls at doing printing. I mean, the guy really didn't need fame and fortune. He probably would have

Starting point is 01:24:32 shrank from it. He probably would have ran away from, you know, 61 photographers, even if they didn't have a photographic material. Well, they did it at the time. But he was a pretty humble guy. The Lamberwell family, I've met him. They're just very, they're very calm. They're very gentle. And so I could never imagine whoever originated that family of people, of which we've seen upwards of 30 at one of the games. They're all just the same thing.

Starting point is 01:25:01 They're just relaxed comfortable people that I think they'd shy away from anything of grandeur. So it evidences itself very well to the human of Lamberwell, as well it evidences itself very well to the actual human of Naismith, who later on tried to play. By the way, he had two other sports. One was high low, it was kind of a mix of, I think, soccer and lacrosse. And the other one was some game where you gotta steal the ring.

Starting point is 01:25:28 It's like on a football field, you gotta get the ring and run to the other side and put it into the end zone. I don't know. They lasted about 14 minutes and a break and they were gone. They never won any of the things. No I loved it all man. I the guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys guys just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just just the guys. the guys just the guys just the guys just the guys just the guy. the guy's just th. th. th. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. I was th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. I love the guy's just throwing stuff against the wall, seeing what will stick. I love that. I love that.

Starting point is 01:25:50 I'm sure there's some sport that hasn't been invented yet. That's the key to find that sport and figure it out. Hey, Brian. Thank you again so much. Thank you. Take care, buddy. Ah, that was great, man. That was great. Johnny, can you pause it one second? I have to use the bathroom and I want to continue a conversation. We go deep home boy.

Starting point is 01:26:17 Aaron, open your mind. Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. That's some interdimensional idea. Wake up, Aaron. This is only the beginning. You just blew my mind. Tim foil hack.

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