Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - #564: The 70's New York City Occult Underground with Brian Cotnoir

Starting point is 00:00:00 Timfoil Hat. Oh, what the fuck are you guys even talking about? Global controls will have to be imposed, and a world governing body will be created to enforce them. Welcome to Tinfoil Half. We go deep, home boy. Eric, open your mic. Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. Aaron, open your mind.

Starting point is 00:00:28 Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. That's some interdimensional mind. Wake up, Aaron. This is only the beginning. There's, you just blew my mind. Good morning, Swarm and welcome to Tim Fall Hat. Good morning, Swarm and welcome to Timfall Hat. You know I am, you know I'm here to do?

Starting point is 00:00:50 I'm here to rock. Yes, dude, it's comedy chaos day. It's comedy chaos day. We're doing it, dude. It's a great day to be alive. I know this is coming out on Thursday morning But today is comedy chaos day whiz live at the comedy store So we are all excited just so you know y'all missed out. Yeah, they missed out because it's sold out.

Starting point is 00:01:17 Bam shut up. It's sold out anyways guys love you guys. I just want to say thank you guys so much for all the support and love and every all the positive reviews on the internet. th th th th th th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. the comedy. th. th. the comedy. th. the comedy. thi thi thi tod tod today is today is today is today is today is today is today is today is today is today is today is today is today is today is to say thank you guys so much for all the support and love and every all the positive reviews on the internet. You guys are showing a lot of love and some of you guys are talking mad shit and that's okay because I love it too. It's fine. This is all good. I do believe that there's going to come a time where it's like, you know, live long enough to to become the villain and I am thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's thi. thi. thi. thi. that's thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. the. the. the. the. thee. theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. the. the. th villain and I am always going to be set on what I believe and some people aren't going to enjoy that as much and that's just life. Just know what I do comes from a place of love and I care for people and you know most of the projects I do if not all of them is there to help people so everyone can do whatever they want and believe

Starting point is 00:02:02 whatever they want I'm here to help and love and practice abundance in my life and you know help, you know, show you guys what I've done to change my life so you guys can change your life and that's just kind of how I feel about it. So I just wanted to get that out because I know you know there's a lot of craziness going on and you know sometimes my opinions may not fit with everybody but that's okay man that's okay we don't have to agree on everything all the time I love you and I want you to follow me or you know at all you know this whole notion of being a cult leader anything I don't want anything to do with that I want you to be your own master your own you to the own roan and I'm trying my hardest to just be the cult leader or anything. I don't want anything to do with that. I want you to be your own master, your own Ronan and I'm trying my hardest to just do the best I can to get you information that can help you take control of your life and you know pull out of the

Starting point is 00:02:55 siops and the loose jacking and just focus on you what's inside you and your family and your community and that's it. So if we don't agree on something, it's okay, man. It's okay. That's it. I'm with you, man, because the arguing about opinions and people identifying with their opinions and internalizing everything is another tool that the powers use to divide us and keep us and uniting it. Yeah, 100 percent. It's all about that. They just keep dividing us up and we all fall for it

Starting point is 00:03:27 because it taps into our fight and flight. We're fighting for our souls, we're fighting for our lives, we're fighting for our people, we're fighting for this and we're fighting for that and we flip back and forth instead of just being like, I'm going to take care of me. Yeah, it's funny. It's like we're all on this lower level looking around, arguing at each other when the enemies are really up. 100% that's where the bad guys are. 100%. They're just running siops on all of us and we're all falling for.

Starting point is 00:03:55 Pull out at all cost, okay? And look inside and fix yourself. And I tell you what I do to make my life a better better and it's just simple things you know gratitude list daily goals intermediate goals life goals and I do that every day and I say it out to the universe and guess what happens things are happening dude and I've never been in a better place I've never been happier and you guys are a big part of that and I want you to know that okay. I want you to know that you're a giant part of my happiness and you know every day we come in here we try to bang it out the best we can sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

Starting point is 00:04:35 Today's episode is one of those great ones where I just thoroughly enjoyed this topic which is the 70s, you know occult, escult, th....... It's, thial, thial, thial, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thiiii's, thi. thii's thi's a thi's a thi, thi, thi, th is the 70s, you know, occult, esoterror. I also love that guy's energy. It's really positive, laughing a lot, you know. Dude gets a lot of energy. I bet you back in the day he was slinging it. He's slinging it, dude. Oh, 70s, yeah. Yeah, no, 70s, but 80s, 90s, sling it.

Starting point is 00:04:57 Brian's a great guy. Guys, if you want to see me live, I'm in Laguna Nigel, May 11th, then at the end of the month, I'm so blessed I'm going to be on the 26th, May 26th, I'm in Holland, Michigan, at the park theater and then the next night I'm in Grand Rapids, you've been asking for it, you, you th, you th, you th..... You the the th. You, you're the next night I'm in Grand Rapids you've been asking for it you got it let's get weird Michigan you got the best you got the best you got the best and then I'm comedian in the world and then the following weekend I will be putting up my oh I'll be put up my Ohio dates today I will be in Cleveland I'll be in Cleveland I'll be in Clevon I'll be in Columbus, Dayton, and Cleveland. Okay? Those dates at the end of the month. Let me see where these are. I believe it's the last weekend. I'm at the Columbus funny bone, which is a big funny bones.

Starting point is 00:05:55 That's, yeah, June 2nd is, I'm at the in Columbus and then I'm here, let's see where else. I'm in Dayton on the third I believe. Oh, the, in Columbus, and then I'm here, let's see where else. I'm in Dayton on the third, I believe, oh, the fourth. And then finally, with last but not least, Daddy is in, back at one of my favorite clubs to play. It's way too classy. I have no clue why they have me back. Polarities is one of the best clubs in the country, and I will be there on the third.

Starting point is 00:06:28 So I will have all of those tickets up on there so you guys can grab it. Ohio, I love you. You're one of my favorite states to perform it. And believe it or not, Ohio chicks, smoke shows. Oh, really? It's very weird when you go to a the place the place the place the place're going to be farmer chicks because they gotta have layers and then they're super smoke shows.

Starting point is 00:06:47 That's why I love. Chicago is like that. Ohio on Ken went to Michigan, Kenwood to see you guys. And not that being attractive is important just as long as you come and hang out and get weird. So go to Sam Triply. Rockfin is a great place. Fun fact, Owen, Martin, good friends now. Owens text me, hey man, me and Martin, good friends now. Great, I love it, bringing people together. Oh look at Sam. That's what I do, conduit for love, bringing people together.

Starting point is 00:07:15 There we go in, loves me, I love Owen, loves Martin. We're all working it together. If you go to Rockfin' to thin' th, to th, to to to th, to, th, to, to, to, th, to, to, to, to, th, to, th, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the the the th, the the the th, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, tho, tho, thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, tooooooo, too, too, too, too, to Rockfin.com, you can get TimFall Hat Premium, Zero, Conspiracy Social Club. We don't spunk to say, we got Broken Sim First Look. Yeah, we're recording tomorrow night. Yeah, so go check it out, T-shirts at Sam Tripoli. Dotcom or Tinfoil Hat T-T-Shirts. I gotta get some new shirts. I gotta get some new shirts. I got to focus on that. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I got to focus. I. I. I got to focus. I got to focus. I got to focus. I got to focus. I got to. I got to. I got to. I got to focus. I'm. I got to go. to. to go. to. to. I got. I'm. I'm. Yeah. Yeah. I'm. Yeah. Yeah. I. I. I'm. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. t. t. t. t. t. tok. tok. tok. tok. tok. to. to. to. to. to. to.................................................... them your design. Send me your design. I heard that.

Starting point is 00:07:45 Somebody sent me a design that looks exactly like the design that Greg Carwood has on the higher side chat. So I can't use that man. It's like unique stuff. So hit me up and well if I like it, I use it. And then if you want to join the telegram, okay, then go to Timfall, go to Sam Trubit.com, click the link, it says it right there, only conspiracies telegram. Guys, I love you very much, okay?

Starting point is 00:08:13 I love you very much. I had to recently kick somebody off of the telegram. Yeah, because you know, it's like you're posting stuff stuff tha th friends like what like what world do you live in that that's acceptable well and then people are acting like they're surprised that you block people no but I mean like you have a history of blocking people on social media but there's nothing that's not a free speech issue I'm a human being yeah yeah so I'm not a a pinyada and like as is as show grows, which has been doing a lot lately, you know, you know, it's just like I'm getting more and more outside influences coming in. And you know, if you're going to say nasty stuff, life is too short. I've lost two of my friends to killing themselves lately. You know, it's like people are human beings. I'm a human being. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, it's like, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, as the, as their, as th, as th, as thi, as thi, as thi, as thi, as thi, as thi, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, as is, th. th. th. th. th. th. th is, as is, as th is, as thi, as a thi, as a thi, as a thi's their is like, as a thi's their their their their their their thi. thi, as is like, as like people are human beings, I'm a human being.

Starting point is 00:09:05 You know, it's like you're going to say super nasty shit because your name isn't on there and you don't have a profile pick and no one knows who you are. What do you think is going to thin? What do you think's going to happen? And guess what? And you think? You keep making new profiles? It's like, they did have your name. It's. It's. It's. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. to. to. their. to. their. their. their. their. to say. th. to say. their. th. their. th. th. th. th. their. their. their. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t you don't like the show, that's fine. It's not for everyone. They were in your house saying those same things. You'd be like, hey dude, come on man. Could you just stop or leave? Just shit, or your line of business, would you be okay with people coming and saying that? And you're lying, where you are, it's just, dude, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody, everybody,

Starting point is 00:09:45 Johnny gives me shit, I give XG shit, XG gives me shit, I give Johnny shit. Because we're friends, but like nothing's like super personal or like, dude we're human beings and all we're doing is talking here. And if you don't like it man, you don't listen. It's like I don't watch TV, I got rid of Disney Plus. I don't like what they're doing there. You gotta see the new Obiwan Cano trailer just just just to to to to to to there. You gotta see the new Obi-Wan Canoese trailer just came out. Johnny, we're trying to keep them away from Disney Plus. Yeah, dude, stop it, Johnny. I'll show you the new trailer just came out from May the 4th.

Starting point is 00:10:13 I should have done May the 4th, Timful, I mean Comedy Chaos, right? Should have made it all Star Wars. I fucked up. Anyways, guys, I love you so much. I hope you enjoy this episode. And yeah, man, I hope you enjoy it. We loved it. Brian crushed it. So please enjoy a fun conversation about the 70s in New York with the whole occult, esoteric alchemist scene with Brian.

Starting point is 00:10:39 Go, no. Far. We go deep home, boy. And open your mic. Drink from the following. All right, let's get into it. Very excited to have this gentleman on. He first came on to my zero podcast.

Starting point is 00:10:57 And as soon as we're done, I hit up Mark the Booker and said, you got to get him on the main show. And here he is we finally made it happen. I'm very excited, an to to an he is an alchemist and an awardment winning filmmaker please welcome Brian Kote Noir how are you brother I'm good I'm good good to see you again well Brian you super crushed it this weird kind of thing happening here I'm getting kind of a visual feedback okay what is this this is this is this is this this this the. You just the. You s the. You super. You super. You super. You super. You super. You super. You super. You super. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. You super. You super. You super. You super. You super. You super. You super. You. You. You. You. You. You super. You super. You super. I. I. I. I. I. You. You. You. You. You. this. You. this. You. You. You. You. You. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. the. I. the. the. the. the. the. the. I. the. the. the. the. the. I. I. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. here. I'm getting kind of a visual feedback. Okay, what is this? Is this, is this, just know that the powers of B are on to us at some point. So sometimes they like to mess with our feeds and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:11:37 Okay. Shout out to the CIA and the FBI. Shot out you guys. For messing with us, but can you hear us enough? Well, I hear you fine. It was just all of a sudden I was seeing myself in kind of like, you know, rather psychedelic colors. You're going to see, you're going to see whatever is on the camera at our end.

Starting point is 00:11:57 So when you're on screen, you'll see yourself. Which I know's got to be a little weird to do to talk to yourself, but okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. that I that I that I that I that I that I that I that I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to be. to to to to to be. to to to be. to to to be. to be to be to be to be to be to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to be. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the to. the the the the the the toe. the toe. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to weird to do to talk to yourself, but... Okay. Now that I know what's going on. I'll try to maintain my composure here. It's a little bizarre. Should we start over? You are editing. This is not live? No, no, it's not live. Do you want me start? Do you want me start over? to? to thrown? the start? thi. to to to start. to to start. to to. to. to. to. to. to. th. th. th. to. th. th. th. th. th. thi. tho. tho? tho? tho? to. to tho? to tho? tho. thi. thoo? th. th. that. th. th. th. th. I. I. I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to me. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm try. I'm try. I'm try. I'm try. I try. I try. I try. I try. I'm try. I'm try. I'll try. I'll t go. One more time. Why not? Do we have some weird starts? You get a weird start. You got one more weird start because... That's it. But it's all good in the hood. Here we go. This one's for the children. Okay. Three.

Starting point is 00:12:32 Three. All right, let's get into it. This gentleman was on zero and I loved it so much. I hit up Mark right after, asked him to come. Put him on the big. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to th. to th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. to to to to to to to to toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. the. the. the. the. the. I'm very excited to talk to him. A lot of great topics we're going to get into today. He's an alchemist. He's an artist. And he is the award-winning filmmaker. Please welcome. Brian Coat-Noir. How are you buddy? I'm good. Good to be back. I have a weird deja vu, which is kind of funny because on the first intro I messed up that part too. So award winning. But here we are, Brian. Thank you so much for coming back on another one of my shows. I really thoroughly enjoyed your last appearance on Zero so much I bought the package of you teaching Alchemy so I haven't had a chance to watch it but I

Starting point is 00:13:26 am excited to get into it so for those who may not be familiar with you Brian could you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and where they can find you oh sure sure sure so so as mentioned I do work in alchemy I do researching and I replicate experiments and, I do work in Alchemy. I do researching, I replicate experiments, and then I produce work around it. Publishing books, zines, articles, essays. I do some teaching here and there, some Zoom classes, things like this. I've been at this for quite a long time, probably too long of a time. I started in the 70s actually with the real intense research, reading, studying of alchemy.

Starting point is 00:14:20 And for those interested in checking out the work, you can go to my website, Kepri Press.com. My last book on practical alchemy has been reissued, so practical alchemy, just look it up online, you'll find places that sell it, better to go to your bookstore. And so that's essentially what I do, actual alchemy, both the inner and the outer. It's not just the laboratory work, but how the laboratory work ties into or engages with the inner and the outer. It's not just the laboratory work, but how the laboratory work ties into or engages with the inner work and vice versa. A lot of the work that I do that comes out of that is applied or can be applied to any art practice,

Starting point is 00:14:59 any art making, any kind of thing that you're involved with. So that's one of the areas that I try to express through my work. But really, it got started, I'd say, an obsession at Weisser's bookstore back in the 70s. And I know this will segue into something I know a lot of folks are interested. It's like, what was that like back then? Yeah. There's folks that came out of that time period. There are folks that came out of that time period

Starting point is 00:15:32 who know about this. And kind of informally, it has started to become referred to as Weiser University. Simply because this was like, it's one of the, if people who know, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, this, th, this, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, tho, tho, tho, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. is, th. is, th. is, thi, thi, and, thi, and, and I, and I, and I, and I, is, is like, is like, is like, is like, is a, is a, is like, is like, is like, is a, is like, is like, is like, is a thi. thi. thi. It's, is like, is like, of the, if people who know at Weissar's bookstore or Samuel Weiser's A, it was an actual brick and mortar bookstore in New York City since the 20s, I believe. It's the oldest occult bookstore in the US. It still exists as an antiquarian shop online as well as publishing. They actually published, published my book practical. But at the time this was sort of like the watering cold. This is where everybody who had an interest in anything from Sufism, you know, Buddhism, ritual magic, the occult, everybody was there, right? On a Saturday or a weekend or something it

Starting point is 00:16:25 was it was packed. What was also really cool about it was they were reading chairs everywhere and no one was really ever chased out, right? You could sit, you could read and there were discussions, there were, so it was a very, very dynamic, it wasn't just a bookstore, it kind of served as a center for a lot of this. So to work there, I mean, that was, you know, if you were interested in the esoteric in the occult, this is where you, this is where you wanted to work. I love the 70s. I love everything about the 70s, not just that I was born, but there's just, there's a vibe and a grittiness of the 70s that I think is, I don't know if it's lost forever, but there was, it was just a simpler time, I just felt like there was just grit to it.

Starting point is 00:17:20 If you look at like in movies, it's seen as like the golden era of movies in particular. Yeah, it is very cinematic, yes, you know, right? But it is. I said, you know, the city then was extraordinarily cinematic. But, you know, I think it had to do with it, I think it had to do with just survival. It was not an easy place to be. And so those who were here stayed here, worked, tried to work or do anything here. I mean, a good film to see is called Downtown 81.

Starting point is 00:17:59 It was made, it was shot then. It has Basquier in it and a couple of other musicians, artists from their time, and they weren't like making a film about famous artists and famous musicians. These were just a bunch of friends hanging together making a detective movie. It was never finished, it was pulled out of a box five, ten years ago and completed as a film. As a document of the city of like the late 70s, early 80s, it's unbelievable. I love it. Have you seen it?

Starting point is 00:18:33 No, but I'm excited to check it out because I just feel like, I don't know what's happened in New York City lately. It just seems like it's, it's, it oh yeah taking over by building off the charts yeah yeah and like you know I live in Los Angeles and we're in a real moment of like there's not a lot outlaws left and you know and I just feel like that's kind of New York City New York City will always have like a Gotham feel to it but I just feel like it's just so much of the. New York City will always have like a Gotham feel to it, but I just feel like it's just so much of the outlaw stuff has been ran out and it just makes me sad because, I mean,

Starting point is 00:19:14 it's not just one side or the other of the political spectrum, but it's like kind of both sides have done it, whether it's from a, you know, a super conservative, you know. Well, it's hollowed out. I mean, it's like the economy, you cannot, I can't even say the word. The economy of the city is such that, you know, either you've lived here for a very long time and you have a rent stabilized rent control department so you can stay. You may not be able to afford the grocery store to help the block. Right, right. Like I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I have I have I have I have I have I have I have I have I have I have I have I have like I have like I have I have I have I have I have like I have I have like I have like I have like I have I have like I have a th. I have a th. I have a th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It it it it's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. the the the the the th. th. It's. It's. th. It's. It's th. It's th. It's the. It's the. It's the. It's the. It's the the. It's the the the. It's the the the. It's the the grocery store to help the blog. Like I have a friend of mine who's been here since the early 70s.

Starting point is 00:19:48 He pays $300 a month rent, right? Oh my god. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We can't, he can't, but he says, but I earned it. I've lived here since the 70s. I mean, you know, there is, there is combat pay involved in that. But that's the thing. It's like, you can't move.

Starting point is 00:20:09 You can't go anywhere. You're stuck. Or you have a shitload of money. And so what happens is anybody in the middle gets pushed out, gets pushed out. And so that's the thing that starts out. So people come into like just as a, as a, oh I don't know what you would call it, a caveat or an underscore to it is that the city still does have its edge.

Starting point is 00:20:33 I mean, there are part, especially East Village. It is getting kind of gentrified more, yuppified more things like this, but it will, it's just the nature of this area it has a very long history since the early 1840s 30s of just anarchism I mean in an actual political movement sense and an ongoing history ever since I mean so there is you still have that and but it has a lot to do with, I mean, we are getting into New York City real estate. That's what they say. It's like, okay, anybody from New York and in 20 minutes it goes to real estate.

Starting point is 00:21:14 But deeper though, but it underscores a deeper thing though, right? It's like, it's like us who are artists, us who are involved in say the esoteric things like this, maybe don't necessarily need a high paying job to survive and to go, but you get pushed out, right? It's like after a point, you can't do what you're doing. You may have been able to sustain it and do it, but all of a sudden, it's like the things around you start pushing you out. So that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's th, it's th, it's thi, it's thi. It's thi. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, though. though. though. thoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoom. thi. thi. thiououou. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thin. thin. thin. thin. tha. tha. theea. tha. that's, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it of a sudden it's like the things around you start pushing you out. So that's what happens.

Starting point is 00:21:47 It gets what I, it's like hollowed out. You have the very wealthy and you have the lower, like the folks who have like my friend who's lived here since forever. But even if he wanted to move, he couldn't, right? Yeah. It's like because he couldn't, he couldn't afford a $3,000 a month apartment or, you know, or a tiny $2.5,000 a month studio. No, he'd have to go, you know, leave where he lived all of his life essentially and go an hour away or something.

Starting point is 00:22:17 So that has an impact. Yeah, I agree with that. And a lot of stuff that's going on like in LA in particular but I've talked to people in New York as well is that you know when the prices go up the middle lower class tends to move out and you know the middle and lower class tend to use like the arts and let's say the occult and stuff like that as a way to to further that to further that to to the to to the to that that the the that to the the to the that to to to the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to tothe occult and stuff like that as a way to further themselves in life to find a niche, a market for that and then all of a sudden it grows and they meet together. And we were talking about this on my other podcast the other day about how like when I started

Starting point is 00:23:01 doing stand up here, I started standing up in 94 in Las Vegas and I was here about 99, I came to LA and we used to do this where like you would do your edge your stuff in LA and then you would go out onto the you know the rest of the country and you have to dumb down your comedy for it for you know. Now it's the other way around and it's and you have to dumb down your comedy for, you know, now it's the other way around. And it's like, you gotta, you do your edge, your stuff on the road, and now you do your like safer stuff in front of LA, and I've heard that about New York as well, because it's like these, the children of the rich have kind of taken it over, and they, they don't play in the rich have kind of taken it over and they don't play in the fringe as much

Starting point is 00:23:49 as a lot of us from middle and lower class would do to find kind of a new tribe to run with and stuff and I wonder if that happens with the occult as well where like you know all the great stores now maybe aren't in New York City maybe they've moved to Jersey may they move to the Midwest where they can afford to have a wonderful bookstores. No, no, there's, there's a very dynamic community here on various levels. There are still are, I would say, two bookstores at center, one here in Manhattan and another one in Brooklyn, one Catland in Brooklyn and enchantments here in New York in Manhattan in the East Village. And these are very dynamic places. I mean, these are still brick and mortars that survive through the pandemic and are just, there's a presence here in an interest.

Starting point is 00:24:44 I know there was at a book conference here in an interest. I know that there was at a book conference here in the city dealing with the esoteric and there's an English publisher Fulger Press and when he was here he says can I ask a folks a question what's going out in Brooklyn and everybody just started laughing and he's like the reason is because we sell internationally. And it's like, the reason is, because we sell internationally, but Brooklyn, it's like 20 times more than the next highest place. Oh, interesting, interesting.

Starting point is 00:25:14 Right? It has, it just is. It has moved from where it used to be sort of centered here because of the very cheap, dangerous environment in the New York City in the 70s and 80s, even into the 90s, but then as the rents go cheaper and everything else people moved out, right? So into Brooklyn, into Queens, things like this, and that's where you will, and you still find it here in the city. I mean it's a big place, but for some reason it always seems to have had sort of a very dynamic undercurrent of deep involvement in the esoteric. I'll tell you one other thing.

Starting point is 00:25:54 There's a conference that's held here. Started by some artists that work through NYU, not New York University. And it's called the Occult Humanities Conference and it's kind of funded and supported to NYU. It was like you know a very interesting initiative that was started from the inside and they wanted to do this exhibit and so they were able to convince the university to give them space to do this exhibition and the university was just saying okay the university was saying okay the university was just saying, okay, fine, you know, how many people do you think will

Starting point is 00:26:26 be? And they were like, okay, the university was estimating, oh, a few hundred people a day, 20 people a day would come out to this thing. The opening night, or maybe a hundred. Well, the opening night, there were like several thousands. Oh my God. It was, it was the kind of thing where the streets were clogged. They had to tell people to keep moving and as you move can exit so that the next could come. The university was like, what the hell is this? Who, whoever, who thought this would happen?

Starting point is 00:26:56 And they organized us and every occultist and every artist says, we did. We know what's underneath here. It's like rhizome culture. It's not necessarily evident what's going on, but it's always here. This is the nature of the arts, too. The arts are so involved in or engaged in market and academy that they will ignore the depth of involvement of artists in the esoteric and the occult. This is one of the things the conference is addressing or attempting to, actually they are addressing it and doing it well, I think.

Starting point is 00:27:31 So if anybody's around, check out NYU's is called the Occult Humanities Conference and I believe it may be happening starting up again this October. It's fascinating. All right, guys, it's spring spring that's right and you know what that means pound town action. That's right. Today's show is brought to you by our good friends at Blue Chu. It's time to dig yourself out of the winter hibernation. Spring is here and it's time to get sprung with blue chew. That's right. This episode sponsored by blue chew. Okay, guys, confidence can take you far in life. It also helps in the bedroom, especially when it comes time to step up your to play and drop the hammer of the gods on your unsuspecting lady or dude, depending on what kind of hole

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Starting point is 00:29:47 with a little extra confidence when it comes time to perform BluCoo can help. And we got a special deal for our listeners. Try Bluchu free when you usecom promo code tinfoil to receive your first month free. Visit Blueju.com for more details and important safety information. We thank Blue Chu for sponsoring this show. Are you saying that they're ignoring the esoteric and the occult and they're not focusing on or allowing it to show, have a presence? In general, in general, the art academies, yes, it's not really, if it is, it's maybe a particular artist and isn't that interesting look what they were doing. In general, I mean, if you look at any kind of art review on stuff, you will not find it reviewed, discussed, or even acknowledged. If it is the comments, here's, here's, here's, here's, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here's, here's, here's, here's, here's, here's, here's, here's, here's, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here's, here's, here's, here, not find it reviewed, discussed, or even acknowledged.

Starting point is 00:30:47 If it is the comments, here's a, for instance, from that exit, the NYU is fine. I mean, the organizers of this know what this is about. This is what we're all involved with, but it was, it's just like no one was expecting this, right? Because they have this idea of, well, art schools teach art as a marketable skill that you could sell, right? It has certain, certain parameters that have an interest, and I mean, it all makes sense, right? But for artists, there's a whole other thing. When I give talks, when we were doing public talks, right, when that was still going on, it's coming as, art, art, art, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, as, there's a whole other thing. When I give talks, when we were doing public talks,

Starting point is 00:31:27 when that was still going on, it's coming back again. Here in the city, I'd ask people, how many here are doing alchemy involved in any kind of esoteric stuff, maybe 20% would raise their head. I go, who are artists here? Almost 100% would raise their hand. I go who are artists here? Almost 100% would raise their hand. The material of the esoteric really resonates with artists because they're making.

Starting point is 00:31:54 It's like talking about the same thing in a way. So you're looking for tools, they're looking for concepts that the Academy isn't talking about. Yeah. You know we had a conversation. It's not like it's suppressed. It's just the market. And so it becomes, it's just weird. Here's it for instance. What are the things like the type of criticism you'll see that came out of that exhibit was like, wow, a lot of snakes sit here. It was like, well, okay, yeah, that's like going know on Byzantine iconography and going wow a lot of women and babies being held a lot of guys are crosses what's this about right and that's the level of your critique of the art is like I don't understand it they're doing weird things in it it's like what is this so that's how its approach is looked at it as an illustration or something like that it's not real art except real artists are deeply involved in it. I have a lot of opinions on art. For some reason, like people really love like cookie cutter, easily digestible stuff and you know in this world of political correctness and stuff and I don't want to get too far into that., but you know, this notion that art shouldn't move you and even move you in a way that makes you uncomfortable.

Starting point is 00:33:11 It's just ridiculous to me. Like, I want to get like, I'm like, well, that made me on call. Like, that song you played for me from, uh, immortal technique. That, that affected me for two days. It's intense. That, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th, like, like, th, the th, th, the th, th. It, th. That, th. That, th. That, th. the the thi, thi, the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, art, art, art, art, art, art, art, art, art, art, art, that, that, art, that, that, thatlin. That affected me for two days. Like, intense. It's an intense. I don't want to get into the, but it, that's why I shouldn't be like, that shouldn't be, that song, something shouldn't like that should be. But this is where the idea of like, say, what I call like, the market forces involved in

Starting point is 00:33:42 making and selling of art is just that, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, and selling of art is just that. It doesn't want stuff that is disruptive, disturbing, questioning, or something, right? You wanted on your corporate office wall, right, to express taste, wealth, what have you. You don't necessarily want something that's, you know, exposing fractures in the culture. But you're right. I mean, any artist will go, yeah, the whole point is, the the whole point. the the the the market is, the market is, the the the the the the market is, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th is, their is their is their is disruptive, their is disruptive, is disruptive, their their their the is disruptive, th is disruptive, that is disruptive, that is disruptive, that is disruptive, th is disruptive, is disruptive, is disruptive, the is disruptive, the is disruptive, the is disruptive, their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their their their their their their their their, you know, exposing fractures in the culture. But you're right. I mean, any artist will go, yeah, the whole point is, you know, to kind of disturb, to point out. It's like one of the, one, I figured who the critic or writer

Starting point is 00:34:16 or somebody was saying, it's like, art is the public dream, right? We all have our own dreams that are sometimes nightmares, well artists express them publicly, you know, and it's sometimes not pretty, it's disturbing, but it certainly gets your questioning. I mean remember the artwork we saw at the airport? Yeah. The fuck was that? Yeah, exactly. You're like, what is it? The squares that were in the air and we're all looking at the... Inver? It was just like random, it was an Austin.. A..... the the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. th. th. the, th. th. th. the, the, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It's sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, like random weirdness. There's something about like sometimes where art is just, you're like, what are we doing here? Like, that $2 million banana thing where it's just a banana paper, tape to the wall and it was like, look out.

Starting point is 00:34:56 And someone paid too. Well, that, that I actually, that I actually appreciate this sort of Bugs Bunny,ism of it if you know what I mean it's like I want art here it is give me a million I don't know there is something that's kind of just really you know but yes is it really really really really not you know is there a part of is there a part of alchemy that is there a part of alchemy that is is there a part of alchemy that for me like what what are I find amazing is art is that is the th. is th. is that is th. that is th. that is th. that is the that is that is th. th. that th. Is th. Is the that th. Is that th. A th. A th. A th. A that I that I that I that I th. A thi. I th. I that I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the th. I the the the th. I the the the the the the th. I the th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I th a part of alchemy that for me like what what I find amazing is that ARP is a thought that is manifested into something physical in a way whether it's a visual film or or this and it's like that seems to be to me

Starting point is 00:35:45 a part of alchemy right there, creating something from nothing. Absolutely, absolutely. That gets right at the heart of it. It's taking, it's either taking what's there and moving it to its, you know, better place, let's say. I mean, that's what alchemy is. It makes change for the better, right?

Starting point is 00:36:07 A long way, basically it makes whatever is into its best version of itself, if you will. So yeah, that's essentially it. And any material, you know, can be used towards that. Right? There was something I wanted to say, and I forgot what it was. It wasn't directly related to what you were saying. I'll probably come around about it again. But yeah. Was there, was it was in the 70s like when we think of like Richard Pryor, I'm just

Starting point is 00:36:43 coming from a point of view of my career, what I do, which is stand-up comedy, according to some, not very well, but, you know, there was the richer priors, there was this kind of like punk rock feel to what was being produced. It was like kind of a, even though, you know, it was kind of was, it was like a grittier version of the 60s. The 60s was, you know, all this, you know, hippie love and all then. But then like the 70s got like, it got gritty. There was like a little darkness to this kind of like subculture that was going on. It's all after like the Kennedy assassination stuff. Kennedy assassination Charles Manson murder like all of a sudden it got more like real with what I would I love to say texture there was a lot more

Starting point is 00:37:32 even the even the summer of love you know had this dark undertone to it you know if you really looked deeper like I remember George Harrison talking about going to San Francisco you know when all when that shit was at its height and just just being really unimpressed with like, oh every, you know, most of these people were just high off their ass, you know, was stumbling around and dirty, you know, they're living on the streets, but it was portrayed in this light, but really I think that is was kind of the beginning of you know this the late 60s. Yeah, I mean, San Francisco still seemed like that. Till like barely recently it's a shitty town.

Starting point is 00:38:09 Back then it's still not like, 10 years ago, San Francisco's nice. Yeah, like the hippies, you go over there, you get to smoke weed. Really wasn't like that, unless you live there. Just like LA, you don't know how bad LA is till you live here. Again, just like Rudy Giuliani did to New York and got rid of all the, you know, wild things, New York, you know, and priced it out. Same thing with San Francisco. I mean, like, there's a place called the Tenderloin, which was like, San Francisco's shady area, but it was so much texture to it. It was like so the people there, the all the clubs, the adult clubs, the all the clubs the adult clubs the sex clubs

Starting point is 00:38:45 Like it was just like this wonderful texture and it's all been taken happens hey everybody want to tell you about our friends at Lucy nicotine products. That's right look we're all adults here and I know some of you choose to use nicotine to relax focus or just unwind after a long day Lucy is a modern oral nicotine company that makes nicotine gum, large and pouches for adults who are looking for the best, most responsible way to consume their nicotine. It's the new year, why not start out by switching to a new nicotine product

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Starting point is 00:39:58 Warning, this product contains nicotine, nicotine is an addictive chemical. Remember if you're interested in a better way to use nicotine, visit Lucy.co and be sure to use the promo code tin foil. There was this great show by the way. I reckon if you really enjoy that era called the deuce that was on HBO about that oh yeah yeah yeah in New York it's it's incredible. I wonder do you think the music uh predicted? Predicted and this this shift to a grittier time or that it was just following it because if you look like velvet underground you know I think it follows it personally follows it okay I think it follows it yeah I mean it's the whole I mean here in the city I'm talking about I mean it's just like the whole

Starting point is 00:40:39 sense of economic collapse I mean it was it was bad I mean I mean the whole city almost went bankrupt and there was a very famous headline ford to New York drop dead right New York was about to go bankrupt I mean New York City financial capital of the world going bankrupt and Ford goes drop dead. No it was and as I'm saying if you see that film downtown 81 what you see is it's filmed in the streets of New York City. I was with a friend of mine who had just moved into the, and was like, oh, I have, I've

Starting point is 00:41:13 seen pictures, I think it's so cool in the late 70s, 80. I said, yeah, let's watch this. And she was like, what the hell is this. This is like a bombed out, this is like post-war world two bombed out. I said yeah, that's 12th Street. You know, over there, see this? It's like you won't, it is a bombed out city and I'm not kidding you. I have a, one of my co-workers who I worked with at Wysos squatted, right, on one of these, and the buildings, every other building was a pile of rubble. I mean, literally, it was like something out of a war. And the buildings that were still standing were,

Starting point is 00:41:52 he's rat infested ship. Feltier. My friend was an architect soon. He went with a couple of friends, ran electricity with the plumbing. And, you know, if you can get past the second third floor, you had a, and going over there you the the they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the, the, the, the, the, the, th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. th. th. the, the, the, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. t. t t t t together, together, together, together, together, together, th. th. th. th. th. th. th th. can get past the second third floor you had a and going over there you open up the door turn on the lights and it was like holy shit and he goes yeah no red it's like so this is what you're talking right it's like this type of stuff and then all of a sudden the city starts to pick up and there's a lot this is all around Tomkin Square all these village they people cleared out areas the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th is the the th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. th. I th. the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th is is is is is is is is is is is is is is the the the they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. the the the the the the the the they, the people cleared out areas and built

Starting point is 00:42:25 gardens, right? It's like some of these are still here, but there was a fight at one point because the city wanted to sell the property to developers and it was like no go. So there's a, this is where you find that here in New York that kind of, you know, old, very old, you know, grit that's just ain't going anywhere, you know. It it. It it. It. It. It. It. It. It's, it. It's, it. It's, it. It's, it's, it's, it's. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's like. It's like. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. It's. It's, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like,, you know, grit that's just ain't going anywhere, you know. It's like, I mean in the 80s, I mean here's another kind of said statistic in the East Village, one out of thirty three people was HIV positive. Geez. Yeah, that's a lot of people. Yes, it is. Yes it is. Yes it is. It's a huge amount of people. It's a huge amount of people. No. It's, no. It's, it is. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's a the the the the the the the the that's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's that's a lot of people. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. It's a huge amount of people. No, it's like, you know, as I say, it doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.

Starting point is 00:43:14 We're like roaches and rats here. We just keep coming back. But that's other show you were talking about how you kind of never, you were more of a reader. You love to go to the library and then you found this bookstore and you were able to work there. Were there some were there characters there that just made the scene just pop? Oh yeah you didn't want to name names but I'm not looking for... Well I don't know names. Yeah these were more these were more like just just characters. Some just actually just truly truly strange you know and they're like some of them are regulars but you know, a little not too tightly wrapped.

Starting point is 00:44:08 And then there were some really serious folks, you know. I can't, you know, the funny ones were the funny ones. I mean, and they're just like, it's just like any place has their crazy people that come in. But here you had the esoteric edge to it. So, you know, I had this one guy, I can't, it's just, I'll try to explain it because I'm laughing about it's not fair to share it. But yeah, it's fine. He was, he was like, he was like, asked me for a book, didn't have the book.

Starting point is 00:44:41 Then it's like, he was probably about 5 foot one, built like a, I mean, really strong, right?, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very muscular, very muscular, very, very, very muscular, very muscular, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I, I, I'm, I'm thi, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'll, I'll, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, he was probably about five foot one built like a I'm really strong, right? Very muscular. Very short and stocky, but really strong. And then he like looks at me like intensely in the eye. And it goes, do you know why I am so young and strong? And I'm like, oh God, here it comes. I know I don't know why you are so young and strong. And I'm like, oh God, here it comes. I know, I don't know why you are so young and strong. So he grabs my hand, slams it to his chest,

Starting point is 00:45:11 and he goes, feel this. And he starts doing these breathing exercises, you know, and it's like, okay, one of the coworkers kinds is saying, hey, Brian, could you come back here and help us stock these bugs? Oh my god. I'm sure. It's like, sir, I have to do this. Are you feeling the energy? Yes, I am. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. I'm feeling the energy. It's like. Yeah. So you'd have like, you know, wizards. Did wizards ever come in, witches, warlocks? Any of that stuff? Like what are those people like? Are they like?

Starting point is 00:45:48 Folks that would display, if you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's like there were a lot of folks who were into the you know, I think full regalia kind of a thing. But yeah, absolutely. It's like, you know, to a metal concert or something and seeing the lineup outside not knowing the band, right? I mean, you get a sense by looking at the crowd that this is a metal band, right?

Starting point is 00:46:12 Same sort of thing at life's every tribe has its kind of, you know, signifers. So yeah, and do they hang out in like different sections of the book story? Well, the different sections of the book story? Well the different sections really never really sort of cross. Oh yes you can kind of just go like here are the gods and here the the Warlocks. Right but here's the thing here's the thing they're really like say in terms of magic magic like what we like say OTO Allistocroly golden dawn there was not much right this is really the beginnings of it is the early 70s. 72 75s that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th tho you tho you tho you th tho you th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the not much. This is really the beginnings of it, is the early 70s. 72-75. That was actually my first contact with it, not my first. I had other mail, you know, going there, things like this, but at one point, there were a couple of books I wanted and had gone in there and these were two works by Alistair ley. And they were like, no, we don't have these.

Starting point is 00:47:05 This doesn't, it's, you know, and that's how I met Jim Wasser. Was I, actually I left, he chased after me and he goes, I have those. It's like, we don't want to buy it. And it was like, yeah. And that's where, that's where a lot of the controversies started, right? Because people are claiming rights to things. They don't technically have rights.

Starting point is 00:47:33 Interesting. Interesting. I am the true OTO. No, you're not. I am. Who has the rights? Crowley died in 45. There are some things. There was a lot of... This is the type of stuff I was actually

Starting point is 00:47:45 oddly overhearing, right? I worked in the bookstore on the floor, so I met all those weirdos, and fellow travelers and future good friends. But then I got moved up into like the office to help pack books, do orders, and you know, and I think if I wanted to, if I had expressed interest in publishing and doing that, I could I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th th th th th th th th th th th th th the the, the, thea, thea, the, thea, right, right, right, right, to to to to to to to to to the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to, and I think if I wanted to, if I had expressed interest in publishing and doing that, I could have moved into that because stuff was shared with me because of my knowledge of certain areas, even though I was like 19 or 20 at the time. So, I'm hearing things, right? It's like, hey, what do you think of this? Like, I don't know if you're familiar you thiii thi thi thi thi th you th you th you thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. to thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi. I thi. I thi. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the the the the the the the the the th. th. I th. th. th. to, to, to, to to to, to, toe. toe toe toe toe toe toe toe toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe, what do you think of this? Like, I don't

Starting point is 00:48:27 know if you're familiar with the whole OTO thing, but there was this sort of discovery of manuscripts or something like that in Brazil, Marcella Mota, and had this was also part of the whole legal thing. He claimed to have had the legitimacy of Crowley, and then it gets nasty, ugly, there's legal stuff going on, flying back and forth. But eventually this is the roots of the current OTO. This is where, you know, the publishing was where it was centered because there was a lot of publication, Crowley and the organization did. So it was a lot of struggle around that, right? And it doesn't sound so magical, but

Starting point is 00:49:11 that is where a lot of the intensity was. What is your take on Crowley? I have my mix back. I mean, I'm not really a fan to be honest with you I feel like he's gone sorry yeah I just feel like okay sorry do it's like when you walk past my on the sidewalk you know and you you know you go left yeah yeah yeah sorry about that what it was your take on everyone knows my take what is your take on it he he was what he was I mean he's a fact that's a to put it diplomatically I thi to put it diplomat I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they. the they. I they. I they. I the they I they I I they I I they I their their their their their their their their their their their their their they they they they they they they they they they they. they. they. they. I they. I they. I the they. I'm the the the tte te te took. te. took. te. took. te. te. took. the the the the the the they. I the their their the What is your take on it? He was what he was. I mean he's a fact. That's what he put it diplomatically. I read him, I studied him, I mean again that was like one of my first entrees into an actually coherent, organized idea of esoteric practice was his magic and theory in practice. So for that I am always

Starting point is 00:50:06 appreciative and stuff but what I started doing with this material was going okay that's great you seem to be getting it from somewhere where did you get it from and so I started tracing things back so it brought me to the Neoplatanist the Gnostics the Hermetics it brought me into contact with Tibetan Buddhism because all this is what the Gnostics, the Hermeticists, it brought me into contact with Tibetan Buddhism because all this is what the English, right, Victorian, the rebirth of the occult and the esoteric was drawing. All of a sudden, they had contact of this through their colonies, etc. and the translation

Starting point is 00:50:38 projects coming in, they can reinvent, not reinvent, revitalize the Western traditions that were lost, you know, by tapping into what was known from these others. And he did it masterfully. He created a Western, Western system of this. But I really didn't have an interest in it once I actually saw where the material was being drawn from. Ah, there we go. That's what we talk about. Yeah. Also it's the outcome that I was always interested in, right? The Crowley, the magical, all this other stuff was a peripheral to that because, well, here's one of those first

Starting point is 00:51:14 systematic descriptions of things I was reading haphazardly from my teen years on. And again, this is like the late 60s in the 70s, it's not like you can go to the bookstore now and there is a whole bookshelf on this. Right? From everybody's interpretation, translations, you know, nothing. I mean, here you go to Weissers and I mean, the stuff on ritual magic, it was the usual suspects at that time, right? Beyond Fortune, the weight. These are all books that were written the books the books the books th. We we written th. We wiiiiiiiii. You that we th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. You th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the book the book is is the book is the book is the book is the book is the book is the book is the book is th is th. th. th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. the. We can the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. their is their is their is that time, right? Beyond Fortune, AE, weight, these are all books that were written and printed in the 1890s and reprinted, because that was Weiser's model, right? Get the good esoteric stuff that's in public domain and printed, right? But there was hardly anything really new because people hadn't worked through the original stuff yet,

Starting point is 00:52:04 right? And then that starts to blossomthrough the original stuff yet, right? And then that starts to blossom in the late 70s, 80s, you start getting, you start getting the secondary kind of working of the magical material again, and then you get some new stuff happening. And then it just takes off in the 90s and everybody has it. What is some of the, what is the, what made the 80s, you know, Renaissance different than the originals? Was there anything in specific that made it like... I think it was, I think it was people who were seriously working with the material had time to work with the material and then had their own insights.

Starting point is 00:52:38 It's kind of when chaos magic started to evolve, right? Early 80s. These ideas where it's like you had enough time to kind of go, okay, you know, I looked at the golden dawn did some of the stuff, I've done some, you know, deep psychology studies through, you know, young in mythology. I've taken some Kundalini yoga classes, I've studied the chakras, right? And then you go, wait a minute, there's something kind of going on here. We don't necessarily need these types of images to do. We could create our own as long as it hangs together as a system. So this starts to get kind of rediscovered in the 80s and then it's also

Starting point is 00:53:22 publishing, it's easier to do. There's a lot of stuff that's kind of, oddly enough, hinges on the advent of computer and technologies that allows for a certain publication of dissemination and things in the 70s. That's why I did zines, right? There was no other way you wanted to do something. I would do, I'd make a mimeograph sheet and then run off a hundred in high school of these kind of

Starting point is 00:53:47 like bizarre ass manifestos and spread them a laugh by hand dude that's how yeah that was some MC Hammer shit right right out of the back of his trunk of his car handing out his CDs and stuff um that's but that's it though right that was like to me William Blake, right, is like one of the first zinsters. I mean, he is a, he's a mystic zine maker, right? It's like he doesn't want anybody touching his stuff. I'm gonna write it, I'm gonna make it,

Starting point is 00:54:16 I'm gonna do it myself because I don't need into media. So I have a vision, I'm getting it out there. So that's the kind of feel too that was happening. We'll find a lot, and they start showing up and sort of used rare bookstores, these pamphlets that were done in the 70s. That's like garage sales. You're like, what is this?

Starting point is 00:54:37 You find this? 50 to $100. And it's like somebody ran off a hundred of them here somewhere back in like, you know, mid-60s and it's about their vision and how you do and the right and here's their poetry and some blind drugs and you go, wow, okay. It's like that, it's like the little, the little zine or maybe it's a book, but that Hamilton Morris was talking about about the psychedelic toads. Yeah. That got passed around in like the 70s. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:06 Or maybe even before that. How underground that was. Yeah, and then it's like people do email lists now. You like that's kind of underground in a weird way to like, send out all your info. Yeah. Here's something my thing, like is the closest thing to like sort of the pirate radio of like 70s and 80s. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:27 Right? It's like, in the past you'd have to commandeer a wavelength somewhere, try to stay online as you could. But it would allow for the niche, you should allow for the kind of say what you want to say. And then that disappeared. And then all of a sudden this is happening and it's like, wow, the closest thing is like the, have you, do you know, you must think this? Yeah, for sure, man, for sure. You know, you have some shows like coast to coast to coast to, that for some reason we're

Starting point is 00:55:53 allowed to talk about some pretty off-the-grid stuff and how that resonated with people and then, although there just seemed to be this kind this this this this this kind this kind this kind this kind this kind this kind of explosion in the podcast thing where it started out like, you know, more mainstream stuff and then out of nowhere you just see all everybody going, hey man, I'm gonna do a podcast on living off the grid or being a call. It's like I got a curtain. So, so, we can put on a show. Yeah for sure.

Starting point is 00:56:22 So, before we get into alchemy because I want to talk about that because it, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, can put on a show. Yeah, for sure. So, so before we get into alchemy, because I want to talk about that, because it's something I'm super interested in, did, did organized religion attempt to snuff out the occult? You know, we talk about, you know, St. Patty's Day and what, like, St. Paties Day really represents with this, which is basically ethnic cleansing, which is the Roman Catholic Church going in, trying to kill off all the pagans who are practicing, you know, alchemy and occult rituals and stuff like that. And everyone's like, it's Saint Paddy's Day. I'm going to get drunk on green beer.

Starting point is 00:56:58 You're like, you're celebrating an ethnic cleansing right there. And awesome, you think that what happened? Because, you know, when, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. C, th. C, th. C, th. C, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It, th. It, th. It really really, th. It really, th. It really, th. It's, th. th. th. th. th. th. the, really, really, the. the. thea. that's really, really, really, really, that's really, they. that's really, thee. try, try, try, the.that what happened because you know when you think of the 80s right we think of like you know uh tip or goal I mean guess tip or gore was the 90s but like the Reagan's and the like this real hard move to like Republican and in particular like the super silent majority yeah the silent majority and the very conservative Christian far right not just like religious people but we're talking about well yeah that that like so did you do you think that was and basically an assassination attempt to take out of the occult oh the

Starting point is 00:57:43 oh you mean there's a lot there. I'm not sure. Let me just see. The overall first question, does religion tend to suppress the sort of occult? Yes. Yes. Yes.

Starting point is 00:57:59 Alchemy specifically, not so much. It just depends upon who is doing the alchemy and for whom, right? Because alchemy had a whole medicinal purpose as well, but everybody was very interested in, right? St. Villanova wrote on it, right? It's not like it was forbidden, forbidden. What was forbidden was, well, you don't call spirits in to help you, right? You can do natural philosophy, you can study nature, changing things into what they are

Starting point is 00:58:31 in their continuum is part of nature. So, so the church and things like that were never really against that, right? As long as you didn't bring, you weren't sacrificing things to spirits, you weren't trying to call spirits in to kind of control something that's one thing. Okay. So yeah, in general, yeah, you know, do not suffer which to live is what the Bible says, I guess. So it kind of, that's kind of harsh. So that kind of says that. But if you think of alchemy more in the sense of its medicinal aspects, which it always had, that is the thing that, you know, think of it that way. The church suppressed medicine. And it's like, well, no, not real. Maybe certain aspects, maybe certain things from time to time,

Starting point is 00:59:16 but no. The bigger question, like say from the 80s, is that no, I don't really, I... See the thing is with this interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest interest, with this with this, with this, with thi interest, with thi, is that no I don't really... See the thing is with this interest in the esoteric, it's as I said a rhizome, right? It's this under, it's like mushrooms. They interconnect underground through this network of contact, right? And you will only see the surface of the mushroom during a wet season when they fruit, but the whole organism is, you know, I remember reading one that the largest contiguous living organism is a lot. Mycelium.

Starting point is 00:59:54 Mycelium. Yeah. Now they say that... So Schumes can talk, right? Yeah, they, there's these underground connected networks have a 50 word vocabulary. It's what they're the biggest living organism. Mycelium. Yep. Yep. So this is that idea. That's what's present, right?

Starting point is 01:00:14 Throughout, throughout, I mean, throughout these, throwne, throwne. You find it more densely in bigger cities because the cities are more dense. But I would say that yes, that you know the religious, the religious would have you will always try to suppress those things they feel are dangerous to the spirit, right? And some of them are coming from a very good place because they don't want you to lose your soul. I'm kind of laughing at us. I remember one event here in New York City was on Astor Place about four years ago and it was this sort of street fair focusing on the esoteric and the occult, right? And so you have tarot cards, tarot cards greetings, you know, the wickens are there and things like that. But across the street, behind a police barricade, were a whole lot of very sincere church people praying. And it was like, a friend of mine joke, it was like, wow, you know what, I think those folks are the only folks here who really believe this.

Starting point is 01:01:23 Right? It's like, because most of the folks attending that find the esoteric in the occult cool, interesting. There's something edgy about it. There's something that speaks to them. They don't really, most folks don't really fully, fully grasp what it's, um, but I almost lost it when it was like, yes, as you're probably right. They're the only ones that actually probably really believe this. So that's the other side of it, right?

Starting point is 01:01:52 There's, there's, there's a sense of the recognition of the potency of this material, right? In which some factors, some people get very nervous about and wish to suppress and That if your music gets too wild, you know The sap may rise and you you'll have funny thoughts. I don't know you know, but there is always that in any any of these societies we look at You know a way to channel this sort of chaotic chaotic? Caotic material that gets turned up through, through esoteric practice, through the arts, through whatever. And some do it better than others

Starting point is 01:02:32 and some of it just try to repress it. Some use it to kind of actually move things along, and others will repress it. Is there, is there, you know, we have a, before we joked, because we were going to have you on talking about the occult and all that stuff, and we're gonna, we made a joke that we're going to get a bunch of tweets, say, worshipers and stuff, and you said, you know, there's no, there's no Satan. And I've talked about that before, about that whole belief, but is, do that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, thi. And, that, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to. th. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. th. to. but is do you think that is a misinterpretation of from the outside of what the occult is and this thoughts of black magic and white magic and how you know and I always say I don't think there's either those

Starting point is 01:03:15 it I think those terms are used to you know to basically identify intent in a weird way like what's your intent of using it and your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean that's the thing. It's, there's a wide, there's a wide range there, right? And it is true that you can say within the esoteric, the the occultist, however you want to identify it. Yes, they'll be a full spectrum there. There will be folks who really, really are for whatever philosophical,

Starting point is 01:03:52 they have their reasons or what have you, that they will know, this is what I do, I worship Satan, right? And there's a whole kind of, oh, I don't know, philosophy around it, that does make sense. And it not necessarily meaning it, in a sense of a social tweak to the far right Christians, right? If you can put up a statue of Christ,

Starting point is 01:04:13 well, I could put up a statue of old Satan. You know, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, no. So you do get the full range of these things. They do exist. There are are are are are are are are are are are are are are folks folks are folks are are folks are folks are folks are folks are folks are folks are folks are folks are folks folks are folks are folks folks are folks are folks their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. thoe. their. their. thoes. thoes. thoes. thoes. thoes. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. to the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the of these things. They do exist. There are folks who are full ritual magicians. But at heart in this, what I think is being asked, in other words, like the worldview, the overall world view that's held here and is held by religion as well, is that everything is interconnected, right? That there is, nothing is separate. And then what the esoterrases say, well, if you can find how those things are connected, theycited, theycined, theycined, they. they. they. they. their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi. thi, thi, thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, but thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, their, thi, their, the, the, their, the. theat, theat, theat, theat, theat, theat, but theat, but thi. But, but thi. But, thi. And then what the esoterraces say, well, if you can find how those things are connected,

Starting point is 01:04:49 you can engage with it. Interesting. Religion will say, well, you only engage with this to kind of either help your community or save your soul, or both, save your soul and see God kind of a thing. And you do that by, well, here are the restrictions, here are the dues, here are the don't the don't the don't th th, so th, so th, so th, so th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, the the the thi, the the thi, thi, thi, the, tho, thi, thi, thi, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, thing. And you do that by, well, here are the restrictions, here are the dues, here or the don'ts. You do that, you know, you're good kind of a thing. But within the esoteric, it's that there's almost a sense of an individual self-exploration in it, right? And this is where, the sort of the organized forms of it get nervous because they have their thousand years of history, whether, whether, whether, whether, th, th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you th, you thi thi organized forms of it get nervous, because they have their thousand years of history, whether it's yoga, whether it's Christianity, whatever

Starting point is 01:05:30 it's whatever, it's whatever they consider the end goal, right? And from that experience, they feel they see some pitfalls. So there is a genuine kind of speaking of like, well, be careful what you do, kids, you know, because you are playing with something, you are working with something that is real. And I don't mean Satan, I don't mean like, oh, evil forces, no. We live in a universe, we live in a universe that is deeply interconnected,

Starting point is 01:06:06 and interconnected in ways, you know, we only know the tiniest little bit of it. And so there's that aspect of it, right? And so this is what I see happening in a deeper sense of alchemy, in the deeper sense of esoterrorism, in the deeper sense of esotericism and the deeper sense of the you know witchcraft magic would have me the ritual is finding that connection to this this deep deep that level of being right this unity of being that it all kind of speaks to and then different folks will kind of use

Starting point is 01:06:40 that channel for different ends right someone doing black magic will use that contact with divine or with the unity of being to channel something in to kind of, you know, put the whammy on their friend, make his breath smell like a goat, and make his girlfriend leave him, you know, this type of stuff. That's actually real. What? That's actually real. What? That's actually in a Greek magical papyry from like the fourth century.

Starting point is 01:07:11 There's a there's a volume of work called the Greek magical papyry and in it are formula, things like this. And a lot of it is how to make my competition. How to make my competition. Nip, smell, yeah. Like, Ezone and them get like crazy rituals. Like, Ezon's had to go out to like the ocean and drop some shit off for like good luck and shares. He thinks he's hexed. Yeah, no. I'm sure.

Starting point is 01:07:37 So are there, are there dark entities and does it, is it an entity an entity can it when we talk about a dark entity one does it exist and two if it does what does that mean? Oh wow I don't think they I don't think anything really intrinsically exists this is where it gets really slippery and kind of I'm all in but I don't necessarily think that anything truly intrinsically exists, right? But it's the kind of thing what I say to folks is, you know, when you start doing, like, okay, fine, wouldn't it be fun if we did this ritual thing and we conjured up or we bought into what have you, you know, this thing, right, whatever that is. And I was talking to somebody about this, and they were like, well, what's the, it's like, well, you know, what manifests there or what comes about there, you're not gonna get,

Starting point is 01:08:34 it's not gonna be a Hollywood movie. It's not gonna be, you're not gonna smell sulfur, you're not it's like, no, it's going to be like probably the next day you're walking down the street with your friend and some crack addict comes at your friend's face with a hammer. It's like that's what you're calling up, right? So where you put your mind, where you put your energy, you want to call up chaos, you want to call up the forces of evil, sure. You know? That's exactly how he's on explains it. He's like, I'll put a hex on you.

Starting point is 01:09:06 I don't know what happened. But next thing you know, your tires popped, now you're in a car accident. Yeah. It's like, he's energy. Yeah, he just throws energy your way. Let's see. Let's the fuck. Like sometimes I, you know, when I used to have a job that I hated, I would call out sick, you know, and then I'd get sick, you know, thinking about it.

Starting point is 01:09:27 Like shit like that would happen all the time to me, like so often. Or I get mad at somebody in the negative. Yeah, yeah, I guess so, right? If you didn't feel guilty, that's it, you, you must get rid of your guilt. It's like, then you are free. But I've always talked about, you know, high frequency, low frequency, and when you start vibrating a little lower, do you run into like lower vibrational people? Like that are kind of, uh, like when I used to use drugs I used

Starting point is 01:10:06 to find myself in places and in recovery they call them lower companions I hated that term because I was right there with them and so I never thought they were low companion I thought they were going through the same issues I was going through and we were just vibe we just vibed and then we you start attracting people who vibe on your energy. yeah yeah yeah they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they were they were they were they were they were they were they were they were th th tho tho the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to to the to the the ed and then we ended up you you start attracting people who vibe on your energy yep yep that's true anywhere that's human right the old saying birds of a feather flock to get it it's like sure for we hear it we see it a turn of phrase the way they carry something

Starting point is 01:10:43 the music they listen whatever whatever, all of a sudden, as you say, you kind of vibe to it, and then that vibe builds, and before you know it, you got a friend, you got a couple of friends, you got a circle. And that's what you have Skid Road. Yeah, I mean, yeah, exactly. I mean, we'vethe other side of it.

Starting point is 01:11:06 You know, we do see that and that is a first rule. So one of them goes gets the needle, the other one goes, gets the sack, the other one go get the food. We all meet up here. And we all party together. Mother fucking team work, right? But when I see people like, the things, things, things, things, thak, thak, thak, thak, thak, think, that, that, that, that, that, that, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the first, the first, the first, their, their, their, the first one., their, their, their.o. their. their. the, the, the, again, my whole things like when we talk about spirits, right, I mean, they call alcohol spirits, I watch these people who are obviously on drugs, in particular crystal meth, look possessed, they look possessed, and the energy that these

Starting point is 01:11:39 things bring in. I mean, we used to talk about, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. It's like you know Capital Records used to talk about putting some kind of spell in every single of the master album that they would put out and then they would copy a copy a copy any thoughts on that and I wonder have something. I never heard that. I never heard that and I wish I had heard that because I knew actually we're doing a Documentary on some of the recording engineers and Produces over at Columbia Records in the early days

Starting point is 01:12:14 So I would have loved to have asked them that question. I've never heard that I have no idea But you know, it's like people do funny things. Right. It's like, you know, they could have done that just to do it, just because? Or there could have been like some true believers there that felt let us put some extra special mojo in it, or it's just one of those stories that gets passed around. It's like, you know, you'd have to, I don't know. You'd have to find I don't know, I don't know, you'd have to find somebody who was there that would, I don't know, tell the truth I guess.

Starting point is 01:12:49 Our words magic, like, you know, we have these, I was talking to some of the other day and they were like, they were like breaking down what is being said, in a, in a, I think it was a Pat Benantar song, it's like kids in, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, th, kids, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, it was, I think it was a Pat Benantar song. It's like kids in, kids are hell or something like that. Or whatever these, they have these, you know, they have these beats that are so amazing. And then people dancing and then they're just saying the lyrics. And I just feel like, are they doing spells by saying this unwittingly? Oh, oh, yeah. That's, I mean, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, their. their. their. their. It. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It. It. It. It's. It's. It. It. It. It's. It. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, the. It's, the. I. I's like, the. I's like, the. I's like, the. I. I. I. the. I. I.that's all Tick Tuck is. That's, I mean, that's like, you know, throbbing gristle, psychic TV, it's like all that stuff, coil, these are these bands that were actually doing that,

Starting point is 01:13:36 you know, trying to get that stuff in there, doing stuff as ritual, as, you know. But I, you know, pop music, I th music, I th music, th music, th music, th music, th music, th music, th music, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thus, that, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's I don't know. That's always, that's always the thing. And that's, you know, I buried Paul, you know. Yeah. I don't know. It's, here's the thing. It's so possible that why wouldn't you believe it, if you know what I mean? Because there are examples of it, but you don't have any, there's no real way to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to claim to to to the to's no real way to claim it being true specifically in any one

Starting point is 01:14:06 case unless somebody says yeah I did that then here's what I did. You know but for sure you know there are. I mean music is I mean that's that's the heartbeat of ritual really. And of any kind of going, I mean going back since we were, you know as we first became human. That's that's that's the that's the that, thi, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I thi I thi, I thi, I have thi, I that, I have thi, I have thi, I did thi, I did, I did, I did, I did, I did, I did, I thi I thi, I thi I thi I thi I thi I thi I thi I I I thi I I I I thi I thi I thi I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I that, I the the that, I thi, I thi, I the thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. Any kind of going, I mean, going back since we were, you know, as we first became human and even beforehand. I mean, look at bird mating dances. If you've ever seen any of those, those are intense. What are they? Bird mating dances?

Starting point is 01:14:38 Bird mating dances? Oh. There are some tropical ones that are like, holy shit. This is thine. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I's, thi. I's, thi. I's, thi. I's, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, going, going, going, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, thi, thi, thi, that's, thi, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's, that's that's that's that's thi. thi. that's, that's, thi. thi. that's tropical ones that are like, holy shit, this is insane. But this idea of rhythm, idea of music, and then the idea, and then the idea, I mean, that's like, you know, that all comes, that's always been there, but like once you hit the 60s, it just takes off. I mean, you know, a lot of what, Jim Morrison is just shaman type of a thing, you know? Yeah, I do understand. But you're fine conscious use of it.

Starting point is 01:15:08 You really do find conscious use of like, okay, we're going to do something, yes, and we're going to join this, you're going to join that. But I don't know the bands that did that. I don't know. Lean was supposed to have done some back, to be back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back, the back, the back, to, to be back, the back, to, the back, to, to, the back, to, to, their, to, to, to, to, to, thi, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to have done some back masking on stairway to heaven, things like this. But I don't know, it's not anything I ever really, I'm just saying what I happen to hear from other folks who's, you know what I mean? But except for those bands I mentioned, some of the kind of industrial folks that were very

Starting point is 01:15:42 much involved in the esoteric and the occult that were bringing stuff into it. If somebody wanted to start to learn about alchemy, where do we start? Where would you start? I know you've written books on it, what would you suggest? Yeah, well, if you're actually wanting to do some laboratory type stuff to get set up basically making herbal tinctures and start understanding the theory practice that will then build towards a bigger thing I would say honestly my book a practical alchemy it was written

Starting point is 01:16:15 explicitly for that purpose of you know laying out a basic theory a basic kind of world view what the practices are how to get set up very simply and and the try tha, and the tip tip toy, and toy toy toy toy toy toy type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type type thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. tipe tipe. tipe. tipe, what the practices are, how to get set up very simply, and you know, and that, as I mentioned earlier, was just re-released last year. It was first published in 2006 and then came out again, so I'm real pleased with that. And that's available anywhere. You go online, you know, put in board, alchemy, and Brian, I'm sure it'll show up. And then my other work is also good if you have an interest in kind of exploring the things that are a little deeper. The other book I did after that, Alchemy, the Poetry of Matter, that's available through my website and some bookstores.

Starting point is 01:17:06 That actually works with the idea of outlining a method of working both with inner alchemy and how those link up. And then I would say, I don't know what I would say. Well, there's a lot of like stuff going on with like, can alchemy change anything into a precious metal? And, okay. No, sorry. What is alchemy?

Starting point is 01:17:41 What is, what is alchemy if you break it down? Like the alchemy is the code is. Oh, all right. The one definition I always start off with, I mean, really, think about it. What alchemy does is it creates a change, right? Fundamentally across the board. I mean, that is in one sentence what alchemy does, makes change. And how it makes change is by taking something

Starting point is 01:18:05 that you already have and bringing it to its best possible forms so that it itself can then turn around and do the same thing. That's the description of the philosopher's stone. You've taken lead, which is imperfect metal. You've bought it to its perfect stage which is gold, right? And then you've taken gold and you've treated that to bring it to its even more perfect than perfect. We've created the philosopher's stone out of that, and that in turn can then

Starting point is 01:18:37 transmute any metal into gold, right? So the basic idea is alchemy, it's an art and a science, right? It uses methods of science, but uses methods and techniques and ways of understanding involved in the arts. It's intuitive, it's logic. It uses all ways of knowing. Any way that you can understand your know something, alchemy will use it. And then the idea is that it brings something. In the case I just pointed out, lead, a metal. For the early alchemists or early natural philosophers,

Starting point is 01:19:13 metal was really one thing. The different aspects of it depended upon how well it was cooked in the earth and what planets were influencing it. So if it was impure and Saturn was done, you'd get lead. And if you went through it, you'd get all the different metals. Copper with Venus, you know, more pure, what have you. And all the alchemists was doing, was taking what nature started and bringing it to its final stage, right?

Starting point is 01:19:44 And this is what they mean by perfection, perfected, right, the perfect tense, past tense, done, finish, complete. And that's the idea of alchem. We're taking something that can be perfected, bought to its best form, right? But then you take that and you do some other work on it, and then that in itself can turn around and create a change. This is where you see the link-ups with art, right? You create something, it has an impact on the world which can then have, which can then change it, right? But that thing can also be your soul, whatever you want to define what's going on on the inside here, and the idea of an alchemy was the idea of a return to the one, a unification with the deity. And so there are practices, inner practices that involve them.

Starting point is 01:20:32 So there you have something being brought to its final perfection. The soul will only be completed once it's reunified with its creator, that type of idea. And so that's basically it. How can these an art and science of bringing something to its final completion? And that covers a whole lot of ground, right? I mean, we can't be the people, sorry. You can look at it as Carl Jung's idea of a damaged psyche,

Starting point is 01:21:00 being brought to health and healing, these kinds of ideas. So that's how I defined it. I mean, and that comes th is is is is is is then then then then then the is the is the the the the is the the is the is the is the the the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is thus thus thus, is the thease is thease is th is th is thus is thus is thus and thus and the the the the the the the the the the the th is the th is th is th is th is th is th is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is thethese kinds of ideas. So that's how I defined it. I mean, and that comes out of 50 odd years of actual working on it, reading, studying. It's a deeper paraphrase of something Paracelsus said, right? That the alchemist completes what nature started, and then I just started kind of pushing it in a sense. There's a lot of issues, not issues, but, you know, within the community. And then I just started kind of pushing it in a sense. There's a lot of issues, not issues, but you know within the conspiracy world, there's always a symbolism, a cult symbolism, and today in this day and age, like everything seems

Starting point is 01:21:39 to have a negative energy to it. Have you ever seen where like one symbol that you knew, let's say the swasika, right? Like the swaska was a Hindu, like the Hindu symbol. Like, like, the the tha, tha, th. And th. And th. And thiii, th. thi, th. And thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, not th-a, not there's, not there, not there, not there, not there, not there, not there, not there, not there, not there, not there, not, not there, not, not th-in, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the the thi, their, their, their, their, there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there's thi ever seen where like one symbol that you knew, let's say the swastika, right? Like the swaska was a Hindu symbol for peace forever. And now everybody automatically associates it with Nazism and you're like, well, I mean, is that done purposefully so we don't understand the power of that symbol? Well, that symbol has been, I mean, the potency, the repurposing and the potency of that symbol

Starting point is 01:22:11 is so intense because of everything within living memory that is imbued with that, that's going to take a very long time for that meaning to get drained from that symbol. So there's no hope of ever getting back to that within our lifetimes of it being perceived as something, as something neutral, right? It just, it's like that would be, if that happened, I don't know what you would tell it, that would necessitate that. But are you asking, are there any symbols around esoteric cult that have a more of a, I don't know what you would call it,

Starting point is 01:22:47 neutral? Is that where you were going? Well, or that- I think he's asking, are they deliberately perverting symbols? Are there other examples of that? Symbols that have been like deliberately perverted? Oh, yes, yes. This is one of the things within, well, say, thiiiiiiiiii. This is one of the things within, well, say, Norse shamanism, for instance, right? I know someone who is literally a Norse shaman, I mean, traditionally, like roots, kind

Starting point is 01:23:15 of a thing. The idea of the appropriation of ruins by the fascists in the far right is like really fucking upsetting, right? It's like, what are you guys doing? What is fucking going on here? There's that that goes on. There is an appropriation of things that, that it's like, it's not the point, right?

Starting point is 01:23:37 Does this go on intentionally? Yeah, certainly. It comes about by recognizing a potency there and then finding some kind of an overlap with it that justifies it and then you claim it and then you re-energize it. I mean, that's the thing with symbols is that they're alive. They're constantly changing. And we put into it as much as what the other side, it's kind of, you know, the other side of the image, so to speak. What it's pointing to. It's. It's. It's, it's. It's, it's, it's like. It's like. It's like. It's like. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, they. their their their their their, their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their, their. their, their. their. their, their, their, the other side is kind of you know the other side of the image so to speak what it's pointing to it's like anytime someone wears a symbol of something when they know what it is or not it's sort of like a tendril that reaches back to the mother load of the symbol in my life right it's like a

Starting point is 01:24:19 tentacle feeding and go ahead and I mean they pick like what very generic symbols like a butterfly a triangle yeah so they they it it it it it it it it it it it it's they th they th they th th th th th th th th th so th so th th so th so th I th I th I th I th I th I th like th like th like th like the the the the is like it's like it's like the is like th like th like th like th like th like th like th like th like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th like th like th like th like the the the the the the like the like the like the like theeeeeeee like the theeeeeee like the the like the the a butterfly a Triangle yeah, so they don't it's very easy to Do duplicate with that you're trying very easy duplicate with trying if you're not woke you'll me like his logo for his company and I'm like Oh that looks like this FBI logo. I'm like I'm like I'm gonna get you don't even know how to tell him because he's so stoked about it he sent it to you. It's such a good dude I'm like but it it just the energy of that the energy of it puts out. There's only so many shapes you know what i mean it's like the the the the the the the energy the energy the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the the the the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the energy. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the's why they pick the most generic ones, yeah. Yeah, I think it's so interesting. I love the most generic ones. Well, there is something powerful about very basic shape. So there is, there is something kind of encoded in the brain for a square triangle, circle, these sort of thing. So anybody who's wanting to create a great impact will start to work with, it's just, I mean, I do books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books books, I do books, I the books, I to their books, I mean I do books, I do design, I do art and

Starting point is 01:25:27 you work with image. Here's something very interesting actually concerning image. Some of the early writings on this in their terms of the power of the image is from like well Marcilio Ficino like Renaissance and kind of writings that impacted the magical called tradition. Because what they were pointing to, this is something out of some of the text, literally, is, you know, you're better off on, in terms of alchemy, in terms of medicine of using something for healing, he says, you're far better off working with matter, right, compounding powders, doing this stuff, than working with image, right? Because you could make talisman's. You could do things like this, that can affect a healing. But what he's saying is we don't know where the power of image

Starting point is 01:26:22 comes from, so we need to be careful with it, so just don't do it. Yeah. And this is a really powerful insight, right? Because up until recently, we don't know where. It's like ideas of semiotics of how images or how signs carry meaning and then how meaning gets potentized and transferred and circulated, caning more power, is a rather recent understanding, except if you look at and can understand

Starting point is 01:26:51 the readings of the esotericists of the Renaissance period. Because that's what they're talking about, the power of the image. You had mentioned making something that has an impact out with, this is what a talisman is, right? You make a talisman a configuration of word, image, what have you as you're focusing on something to cause that change. Yes.

Starting point is 01:27:13 It's to make a change. This could be an art piece. In alchemy, the emerald tablet actually mentions the word, right? But what it's speaking of is this idea of making something that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that theiiia, theia, their word theirationationation theiration is theirationationationationationation is the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thiaa is has has has has has has has has has has has has has has has has has a a the the the the the theisman. But what it's speaking of is this idea of making something that has a final impact, right? It's not making it like a literal talisman, you know, with signs, images and things like that. It's an object of a completed ritual,

Starting point is 01:27:39 with which the ritual has an impact, is what the origins of the word is. So all of this is kind of what's at heart heart, even thiiiii thiii thi thi. thi. thi. thi, even, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the origins of the word is. So all of this is kind of what's at heart, even today, because it's like, this is something I deeply research. I work in film, I do documentary film, editing, producing, I do graphic work. I have work on propaganda, right? I have from the Cuban, from the Cuban Communist Party from 1968, their work on propaganda, right? How do you do proper propaganda?

Starting point is 01:28:09 This reads like something I would read coming out of Madison Avenue in the 60s. How do you do proper advertising? Identify your audience? What is there? All of it. They were beginning to understand how images, how things work, right? Simple, powerful, dominant upper left corner, just strange things like this. Right, right, right, it's all energy.

Starting point is 01:28:36 Right, but it is, but it's also working with a very, or discovering, right, only seeing the surface aspect of how the human psyche is configured. And I mean that both materially, right, brain, cognitive psychology, as well as then mind, behavior, these sorts of things, right? Because a lot of this early stuff is just empirical. You do this and you see weird things happening, right? And it's the same thing. How does advertisement work? How, you know, why all of a sudden are you wanting something or we're thinking of something, right? Why does that, why does that phrase keep going through the head?

Starting point is 01:29:14 Yeah, you know, it's like when we would work on titles for a show. I mean, this would take a week of right? Of like people, that's not, that's like one too many syllables, how about this, can we bring it down to that? You know, that's too much like that, you know, oh that resonates with this, all of that. It just wasn't alone, we'll call it this. You know, no, there's a bit of, sometimes. There was a the film I worked. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. There's, thi. There's, th. There's, thi. There's, thi. There's, thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin, that, thin. th. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, th. That's, th. That's, th. That's, th. That's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It's, th. th. It's, th. th. It's, th. th. th. th. th. th. It's, th. It's, th. th. th. It's, the. It's, the. It's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, th. th. I worked on that they just ended up calling it mummy movie. Well, we've been talking about that. How they're like, some of the titles are getting dumber and dumber on these movies.

Starting point is 01:29:54 Ambulance, dog. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that, we, that we work movie was called, we crashed. I was, you know, Johnny. I was, it could the the the the the the the the th. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It. It was. It. It. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It th. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was. It was called We Crashed. I'm not gonna lie. You're Johnny. The Northman? It could be a little bit more clever than the Northman. I was proposing a series. Yeah, that makes sense in the context of the movie. Go on, sorry, Brian.

Starting point is 01:30:12 Yeah, yeah, no. I was proposing a series that, um, that the title is just going to be an exclamation mark. I mean, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that the that that the that that that the that that the the that that that the the that that the that that the that the that that that that the the the the the that that that that that that that that the that the the that that that that that that that that the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the ti. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. I was. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. That mean, it's like what else do you fuck? I'm sorry, what else do you need? It's like, that's like, that's it. That's just that's all it is. Every other, every 10 seconds it will be an exclamation mark, because that's time. So let me ask you. We start a project, here's two of the ways things break down right now, right? As an editor, you'd start to see an old friend who's been editing, you go, what are you working on? You know, murder or humiliation. What are you working on, murder or humiliation? I love that, dude.

Starting point is 01:30:55 So, you know, some kind of, that's it though. Well, maybe some history channel thing, but there it's- Sounds like journalism, I mean, honestly. Yeah, that's what's what you, what you, what you, what you, what you, what you, what you. That's what you, what you, what, what, what you. That's what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, the. the. the, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what you're they. th. th. th. th. th. th. you, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, right? Well, maybe some history channel thing, but there it's- Sounds like journalism, I mean, honestly. Yeah, that's what he's saying, dude, that's, and like, there's a reason why you go to like, the number, it's so interesting, we talk about all the time on the show, how like, people get offended by jokes, like, there's people who won't do this show, because certain guests have been on, right? And we're asking people who do murder podcasts to come on the show, but they don't like that what the people talk about... Or even the title. On our... Yeah, it's so weird, right? Like somehow they've been compartmentalized the act of murder as not to have some bad energy to it.

Starting point is 01:31:47 And how they're right? It's like so crazy that they almost fetishize it right the way they talk about it. 100% yeah it's it's a good they go to sleep to it. I don't know about that but I do know about you know shows dealing with murder right like sort of the wave of true crime. And this is, I mean, it's like, I was once working on a show, it was a homicide investigation, and this is how, this is how ugly it gets. The victim's family called the series producer,

Starting point is 01:32:24 begging them not to do the show on their murdered daughter, right? Because it was just too hurtful for them to have this shown and be as entertainment on television. Yes, dude. Did Dell, did the network back down? No. They just said no. No editor. None of the editors were on staff at the time we toubched it though. We'd be like, sorry. That's why I bailed on the crime beat, dude, is because one of my first gigs was to, they wanted me to go down the courthouse and take pictures of people was, you know, they were being booked goes back to if you won't do it someone else well. They did no somebody else yeah no I agree I completely I'm on your side but it's that logic where the

Starting point is 01:33:11 person that takes it all the logic is I don't do it someone else well. Those people are where like I stopped watching the first 48 because I because I was watching I use I used to watch it I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th I th I'm I'm th I'm th I'm th is I'm th. I'm to to to to to th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I th. I to th. I th. I th. I th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm to t. I'm t. I'm t. I'm te. I'm te. I'm tot. I'm t. I'm t. I'm tot. I'm t. I'm th time. And then I remember having this notion going, hey man, when the first 48 on it, I'm excited. I go, think about, I go to, I literally had a conversation with myself going, dude you're excited to watch, let's say, 18 people have to die for a season to happen. And then they had this one mother. And like, I'm gonna say, people got really comfortable for some reason watching black murder.

Starting point is 01:33:52 Like it would just like, we were just watching black murder after black murder after black murder. And like the families that are affected by that, like, their worst moment suddenly is like this emotional charge for us. And they took this mother and they, they, they took her to a car and the cop, the detective literally positioned the mother so the shot could be better. And then the, they go, hey, tell us they're about their tattoos. And the mother it's got this tattoo that tattoo and they're like

Starting point is 01:34:25 That's your son and I remember going why am I here for this moment? And I never watched the first 48 ever again. I've never watched it. So many so-called documentaries do that where they position people do reenactments without you know telling you that they do it. It's like I And honestly it's from honestly it's from it's from it's from thly it's from thly it's from honestly it's from thly it's from thly it's from thly it's from thly it's from thly it's from thly it's from th. It's from th. It's from th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's thi. It's th. It's th. It's this this this this this this this this this this this this their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. It's their. It's their. It's they. It's they. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their. It's their their te. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So, the the the the the the the the they do it it's like it's like it's kind of and honestly it's from the school of one of my favorite directors which is Vernor Herzog but he's he's a big believer in restaging events and and and making things appear as though they were organic that actually weren't and that there's so that's this new school of documentary it's kind of cheats on those things, and I hate that personally. That's all cop was, cops? Well yeah.

Starting point is 01:35:05 Cops was, that's exactly what it was. It was just watching people go get arrested in the worst moment and then the signing a paper to get a lower deal. And then like somewhat taking these people that for who knows whatever reason they're they're going through this and like deeman an like th. th. th. th. th. th. th. themananananananananananan an like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th. And like, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi. And, like when I see people on the streets drugged out of their mind I go there but for the grace of God go I because I was doing drugs I was the things that I would do on drugs it was like super embarrassing I never got to that because I was functional you know but it just like you don't know what people are going through and then these shows like it becomes a monkey see monkey do thing we I mean we see it

Starting point is 01:35:50 with like you know teenage pregnancy on MTV and all of a sudden teenage pregnancy is going up you had that show and and this is exactly what Brian was talking about you had a show on Netflix that was shown to have caused like 10 suicide in children did they take it off air no they did they the their their th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. the the thi. thi. the. the. the the the the the the. the. the. the. the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. to to to to to to to to to the. to the. the. the. the. the. the. the. th was shown to have caused like 10 suicide in children. Did they take it off air? No, they did another season of it. And this is the energy we're putting out when we talk about like all, like the things that kids dance to and sing to. They don't understand the words they're saying, are you letting in energy that

Starting point is 01:36:21 maybe you don't understand you're letting in? Don't know. It's crazy. Brian, let's end this on a positive note. You have some wonderful... Yeah, I was gonna have to get running soon. Let's let's end it on here. You have some projects coming out. Can you tell us about them your upcoming projects on alchemy and music? Oh, oh yeah, yeah, this is the fun one. I did a zi. I've been doing, I've, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I've the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. to, to, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th. th. to, th. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, the, th. th. the, oh yeah, yeah, this is the fun one. I did a ZE, I've been doing, I do ZENs as like kind of research projects that I'll never go deep with. They relate to alchemy, they touch kind of aspects of it, like dream work. Anyway, things like that. If you're interested in the ZENs, go to the website, KEPPRPRS. to check it out. One work I'm starting to do involves music.

Starting point is 01:37:09 It's something I've always been interested in working with and sort of this idea of the esoteric and music. Alchemy in particular is not like it's alchemical music. That, I can't get into details explaining what that might mean, but... Yes. What I want to do is there's some old systems of patterns and alignments with planets, tones, vowels, things like this. So I want to, basically I want to experiment with this. I did a zine called Alchemy in music where I lay out a lot of these ideas and systems.

Starting point is 01:37:45 Sort of the basics of it, and then to kind of build out from there. Some of it's drawn from the Greek magical papyr. They have these string of vowels, and it's been discovered that those vowels represent notes. And so there's this basically, you know, chanted music involved in these texts. So taking those ideas, I want to go play, essentially. I want to play with these ideas, with the idea of assent of the soul, this idea of alchemy, more of an inner work, don't know where it will go. The key, the key image around this is the goddess Hikate. She is the goddess Hikate. She is she, she, she, she, she is, she is, she is, she is the, she is the, she is the, she is the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, thi, thi, The key image around this is the goddess Hikate. She is the goddess of the crossroads. It's she who will guide you

Starting point is 01:38:32 through. She was the goddess who went to the underworld and bought Persephone back. She's often characterized as carrying two torches. So this will be more less a hymn to Hikate as the goddess of the crossroads that anyone involved in the esoteric and the things that go bump in the night world. It is this liminal place, this kind of in between that we find ourselves. So she's sort of a patron saint of that, if you will. So that's the project I'm starting to develop and work on. If you want pick up the zine, go play with it. I have another one coming out that's going to outline the basic framework I'm working

Starting point is 01:39:15 with. The idea then would be other folks interested in take these same frameworks go make their own stuff. I'm hoping to make available like the music stems, various mixes and stuff like that on my website for folks to go download and go play with at some point. And then the ultimate thing will be a flexi disc in the back of one of the, one of the zines just because, well, why not? Old school, kind of cool. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:39:42 Right. And so that's kind of one of the bigger, I have another book I finished that I'm hoping to get out by the end of, by the end of the summer. I don't know, I have to see how that goes. And then there's a few other little zine works. But the music thing is the big project right now. I just finished another zine on the mysticalical Sisters, meaning women in alchemy, women in mysticism, as I was doing research on partnership. Anyway, check it out. It's on the website and it's called Desore Mystica on the Mystical Sisters.

Starting point is 01:40:17 Right there. Any shows or are speeches right? Oh, yes, I'm supposed, oh yes, yes, yes, here's some things that here's some things that are coming up No, here is a couple of events that are coming up if you are in New York City on June 18th Saturday printed matter 8th. These are local art printed matter does zines artist books things like this. There's going to be a Zine Fest on St. Mark's place between First Avenue and Second Avenue all day. June 18th coming up.

Starting point is 01:40:51 So if you're in the city come, there's going to be amazing stuff there, including me, you know. Yeah. And then I'm starting a course tomorrow night through morbid anatomy library. It's called Alchemy and the Symbolics of Color. It's a four-part course. If you look up Morbid Anatomy Library, they have like their courses. If you look up Alchemy and the Symbolics of Color.

Starting point is 01:41:23 That's starting tomorrow night. In June, doing the music and alchemy, and that's where I'll be laying out. If anybody's interested in what I was talking about the project, here I'm going to be going over the fundamental ideas and groundings for it and try to get folks who are interested to kind of go off and go play with this material and see what comes up. And that again, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, to, to, to, thii. tho, tho, tho, tho, thoom-a, the the thoom-a, their their their their their. their. I'm their. I'm their. I'm their, their, the music, the music, the music, the music, the music, the the music, the their. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I'll, thi. I'll thi. I'll thi. I'll thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. thea, thea, thooooo. theauuuuuuuuia, thooooooooo. I'll tha, tha, thea, thea, this material and see what comes up. And that again too is through Morbid Anatomy Library. So if you you know go online check it out I don't yeah. I don't have any West Coast kids? I probably should hold the hold the QR code up to the up to the send me any the shows you want me to have. I'll add to show but are you going to do any West Coast show so we can, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, the, the the the the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, the, the, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th, th, th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to that, that, that, that, thi, th any of these shows you want me to have. I'll add to show but are you going to do any West Coast show so we can, any LA man, we got some, we got some, yes, there's nothing coming up right

Starting point is 01:42:12 now. Yeah, I was doing some classes through some of the West Coast venues, zooming, as I would say, zooming in from LA, but not nothing coming up right now. All right, well keep us posted because I would love to come. I will. I will. I will see one of your live presentations and support you. I am.

Starting point is 01:42:34 I signed up for you, the Mordmid channel, like I said. And so if you sign up for that, do you get any of your old, uh, well, here's the same. You won't get the old ones. th. th. to to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign you you to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to sign to to to to to come to come to come to come to come the the the to come to come to come to come to come to come to come to come. I to come to come to come. I to come. I to come to come to come to come. I to come the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I I th. I th. I th. I th any of your old? Well, here's the same. You won't get the old ones. The class you sign up for, if you don't make the actual broadcast, as it were, you have available the recording. Okay, perfect. And you have the recording available to you for as long as you wish. It's like it's part of the class.

Starting point is 01:43:04 They take about 20, 20 people because we try to keep it to a point where there can actually be engagement. So I present for about an hour or so and then you know Q&A or discussion and investigation so that's usually fun. So yeah, sign up. I have a mailing list on my website. It's down at the bottom of the page somewhere. Kepri Press.com. I'll send you the, I'll send you the, I'll send you all the links there, Sam. All right, Brian.

Starting point is 01:43:37 Well, we appreciate, we know you got a jam. So thank you, Brian, I've thoroughly enjoy talking to you. I can do it all the time. I look forward to seeing one of your classes. And I hopefully if you get out on the West Coast, we could paw-wow and meet up and definitely. Definitely give you guys a shot when I get out there. Please do. The door is open for everything and anything.

Starting point is 01:44:01 And I would love to meet up in person sometime. Again Brian, thank you so much for coming on. You guys check out the links down and below. Guys, Michigan, Ohio, Daddy's coming at the end of the month. Come see me, come get weird and let's hang out and I appreciate you guys listening and I hope you enjoyed the show as much as we did. We will talk to you soon. Love yourself and we'll talk. Bye. We go deep home, boy. Aaron, open your mind. Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere.

Starting point is 01:44:36 That's some interdimensional idea. Wake up, Aaron. This is only the beginning. You just blew my mind. Tim foil hack.

Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - #564: The 70's New York City Occult Underground with Brian Cotnoir

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