Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - #898: Synchromysticism With Gary Lachman

Starting point is 00:00:00 Tin foil hat. Yo, what the fuck are you guys even talking about? Global controls will have to be imposed. And a world governing body will be created to enforce them. Welcome to Tin Foil Hat. We go deep home, boys. Eric, open your mic. Drink from the fountain of knowledge!

Starting point is 00:00:27 There's lizard people everywhere! That's some interdimensional shit! Wake up, Aaron! This is only the beginning. You just blew my mind. Are you ready to get your mind blown? Revolution will be podcasted. All right. Welcome to the wise Wolf, gold and silver studios, our brand new studio brought

Starting point is 00:00:55 to you by wise Wolf, gold and silver. Go to Sam Trimbley dot gold. Use the promo code tin foil and you too can get in on the precious metals game for as little as $50 a month. Personal sent right to your house. It's just that easy. Very excited to have our next guest on. A huge fan.

Starting point is 00:01:11 And we've had so many technical difficulties. The fact that he stayed with us shows what a kind person he is. He's an author. He's 22 books. He's a musician. He was in Blondie. And we're just honored to have him. Please welcome to the show, Gary Lockman.

Starting point is 00:01:26 How are you, Gary? Gary Lockman I'm doing very well. How are you doing? And thank you again for having me on the show. Gary Lockman We're honored. Thank you so much. It's normally not this chaotic, and it's a horrible first impression, but these things happen.

Starting point is 00:01:42 Gary, for our listeners, everyone knows who you are, but for our listeners who may not know who you are and know all the amazing stuff you've done since the band, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and where our listeners can find you? Well, say my name's Gary Loughman. In a previous life, I was in position under the name Gary Valentine in a few bands. But since then, I've gone on to become a writer

Starting point is 00:02:07 and over the last, I don't know, almost 30 years, I've written, it's actually about 26 books. And there'll be one coming out later in this year, which is precisely about how I went from being a musician to doing the sort of thing I do now. And I'm excited to see that book. I will definitely buy it for sure. And they can get your books on your website, Amazon, where would you prefer they go? Well, anywhere you get your books, they're available. Yeah, I mean, I have a website. Just Google my name and it'll come up.

Starting point is 00:02:43 All links below and i'm on you know whatever it is these days x and facebook and a few other things and um yeah i mean i should say well the sort of things i write um about the esoteric or the occult or paranormal or alternative views of history and things of that sort, unconsciousness, the history and evolution of. Well, that started about 50 years ago, actually, when I was living in New York on the Bowery in a loft space with Debbie Harry and Christine, who were obviously two of the five altogether members

Starting point is 00:03:22 of Blondie, the band I was in back then. Because the place we were living, the fellow had had three floors. It was just a block or so away from CBGB, which was the club in New York, in New York, New York, Manhattan, 1975. 50 years ago, the club where the Ramones and Patty Smith and television and what a great time heads and many of many of the bands came out but yeah the place we were living the guy who rented us our bit of it he was into the occult he was a fan of Elastig Crowley and he also was an artist and did these wild paintings based on on Crowley's tarot deck but the book I read at the time that really did it for me

Starting point is 00:04:06 was just a book called The Occult. It was by a British writer named Colin Wilson. And it was a brilliant page turning history of, and also sort of philosophical, intellectual analysis of that was just full of fantastic stuff. And yeah, I read that at 19. And yeah, 50 years later, I'm, you know, writing books about the stuff I was reading about then.

Starting point is 00:04:33 Which is a crazy because like back then you had to find the book. It wasn't available online, easy at your fingertips. You had to go find the bookstore that sold it and all that stuff. And so what are your thoughts on like kind of right now? Where we are in the world of let's say conspiracies. I don't know what you think of that word but conspiracies and How it seems to be everywhere right now

Starting point is 00:04:56 Yeah, well, I'm not particularly keen on conspiracies I always think of them as one trap door leading to, you know, 25 others. Yes. And you just go through one after the other. But in the sense of satiric or the occult or the magical, that might be the broader kind of term, I think what's been happening since over the last 10 years, at least, probably a bit earlier than that, but certainly over the last 10 years, is that all the sort of thing that used to be on the fringe, the weird stuff, the far out stuff has come in, and it's in

Starting point is 00:05:38 the center. The prime example of that for me, and I wrote a book about this, was the fellow who's in the White House now. I wrote a book about his first term. It's called Dark Star Rising, excuse me, Magic and Power in the Age of Trump. And in general, it's about how a variety of different ideas about what we might call reality being malleable, reality being accessible to the influence of human will,

Starting point is 00:06:10 you know, and not only in obvious ways, but, you know, labor and doing things like that, but the sheer thought more or less, which again is a very, in general, that's basically magic. And why Trump was kind of the poster boy for this was that he himself was, and I suspect still is, was a devotee of a fellow named Norman Vincent Peale,

Starting point is 00:06:41 who was an American Christian, I guess, kind of new thought. He Christianized notions of new thought, like the secret and whatever it is, the road of earn and all that sort of thing, where if you think about something intently enough with a deep, true kind of will towards it or intention, you'll attract it and blah, blah, blah, that kind of thing. And Peel kind of Christianized that. He turned it into sort of a method where you use prayer, then you're petitioning God and things of that sort.

Starting point is 00:07:14 But Trump grew up with this. His father was a devotee, this needs to go listen to. Peel give his lessons in New York, in Church on 50th Avenue. And then Trump himself later on sort of sat at his feet, as it were. I know he had at least one wedding ceremony held at that church. And if you know, I mean, one of the things about Trump

Starting point is 00:07:38 is sort of like it's tunnel vision. I mean, like reality is excluded. The reality that most of us sort of see and recognize as being fact is something that he's blinkered himself to and he has this kind of laser-like, or that's like a very generous way of looking, tunnel vision towards his objectives.

Starting point is 00:08:01 And this is one of the things about positive thinking is that facts don't matter. We see interpretation of facts. So that was one element of it. And then he himself, for many years, was sort of primed for the position by his time on the apprentice. Because the whole idea of reality being malleable and sort of the simulation of reality taking the place of real reality and things of that sort. One of the most popular things in however many years on television is reality TV. So it's not television shows, not scripted shows and stuff like that. It's real life people doing real life things, and usually embarrassing things or something like that.

Starting point is 00:08:45 But any case, and Trump was, for years on this program, the apprentice. And he wore the suit, he had the tie, he gave with one hand, he took sternly with the other, he was the power guy. And a joke I made about it in the book and in talks I've given was that we had put so much reality

Starting point is 00:09:05 into television, that there's only so much space in there, and something had to pop out, and what popped out was Trump. So he was the simulacrum that became the real thing. And then you have people like Richard Spencer and others involved in the alt-right at the time. I mean, remember them? They were 10 years ago, they were like, you know, pretty popular, and others involved in the alt-right at the time. I mean, remember them? They were 10 years ago, they were like, you know, pretty popular, they were in magazines and things like that. Nobody hears about it now at all. And, but they were all, after Trump's first election, famously they claimed to have somehow used the internet to have affected that, but not in the sense of just using it

Starting point is 00:09:46 in some obvious kind of propaganda way. Although it was propaganda, it was kind of magical propaganda where they adopted the poor, slacker, amphibian, Pepe the Frog, thereby making the author of him, Mike Fury, become Mike Furious. It just was like some kind of slacker amphibian who, you know, hey man, you know, he just pees in the street because it feels good and that kind of thing. And then he was adopted by Spencer and others in that realm.

Starting point is 00:10:19 And I can't go through the whole story of how this actually worked, but they had claimed and others had as well, that somehow by flooding the internet with images of Pepe and Trump and the deplorables and a variety of other things, they had somehow, through something called synchromysticism, they had somehow affected reality itself. So reality, you know, the old thing that life imitates art, so reality is imitating the internet kind of thing. And then overarching this over many years in the academic realm, was the whole notion of what postmodernism is basically about

Starting point is 00:10:56 the notion that there isn't any truth to the capital T or reality to capital R. It's all relative, it's all interpretive, it's all social constructs, you know, different political forces or groups, whatever, trade their own reality as it were, sort of variety of other things all about creating your own reality. And manipulation of energy, basically, they know, yeah, just, just, just, just the idea. And so things that don't necessarily wouldn't necessarily be sort of associated with

Starting point is 00:11:25 each other became so because of that shared meme or whatever you want to call it. Meme magic, meme magic, that's what they call it, meme magic. Well that's what the people involved on the internet called it. So, but I just mean in the sense that the whole idea that reality was up for grabs, suddenly that became something that over here, over there, over here, over there, separately became altogether at the same time. And that's, I would say that's where we are now. So that's why, you know, it's, I mean, how, you know, how, how precisely that's affecting things in the world. I can't say that, but I can say that I think it's the general kind of tone of the time. It's this kind of, you know, epistemological uncertainty where everything's plausible, but nothing is certain.

Starting point is 00:12:17 Yes. So, and this is one product of the notion that now anything is possible, which we generally have good associations with. Oh, anything is possible. But when you think about it, it's like, well, anything is possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not necessarily any good things are possible. So, I mean, so that's why I would say, you know, generally we are now. Yeah, something like that. So would you, you know, this is a topic we talk about a lot on this show, and it's just like, we have these Abrahamic religions,

Starting point is 00:12:47 I think they're presented as this group of people, that group of people, this group of people. And then when you study all these people at the highest levels, you study them long enough, you start to see symbols and images that make you think maybe there's a little something deeper into the occult. And what are your thoughts on that versus like, you got these group of Abrahamic religion people and they're doing this, and this group of Abrahamic religious people are doing this, but in reality, it seems like so many of them have the same symbols at the very top that to me, that you know what I believe what they're really following, worshiping, believing in. Any thoughts on that?

Starting point is 00:13:33 So, when you say Abrahamic religions, you mean Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Yeah, and you may be throwing Catholicism in a weird way. Well, I mean Christianity, well, Catholicism is part of Christianity. Yeah, I know, but it seems to have its own thing. I know, I know, I'm just trying, well, that's the, and then there's so, well, obviously there's, you know, there's a great many different versions of Christianity, there's Catholicism, Protestantism, Catholicism.

Starting point is 00:13:56 Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. You know, so there's all that kind of thing. Well, I mean, I would say in general, and it's not only limited to people of the book, you know, from the mental ideas in the sort of milieu I work in is that there's an inner side to all of the sort of great religions, the esoteric and in some fundamental way they all share certain insights and basic, you know, primary ideas and visions. So if you're talking about specific symbols like a symbology or an iconography, i.e. you know, the Star of David or the Cross or something like that,

Starting point is 00:14:41 I mean, yeah, I mean, I don't know, there's any number of books that will talk about lines along those lines. And I think, you know, in that world, you got to be careful, you know, because it's easy to say, Oh, yeah, that looks like this. That looks like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and in what and in some ways, or in very important ways, you get the lucky hits. I have one example of that, is sort of what you're talking about, is Eliphas Levi, the 19th century French occultist and magician and writer who wrote very influential books, Transcendental Magic and History of Magic.

Starting point is 00:15:21 In the mid 19th century in France, it influenced people like Baudelaire and Rambeau and French poets and artists and so on and so on. But he believed that the the Tarot went back to Egypt, which most modern historical researchers on it say no, it doesn't, it kind of starts up in the early Renaissance. It might have, it might allude to Egyptian themes and stuff like that, but it itself did not start in ancient Egypt.

Starting point is 00:15:56 But then he also had this fantastic kind of howler in one way that proved remarkably fruitful was when he associated the Hebrew alphabet, the 22 letters that are on the tree of life, the Kabbalistic tree of life, which is this symbol, diagram of the forces at work in creation. And you know, it's the two side pillars and the middle pillar and its 10 spheres, Sephiroth's, that start from the, well, even before the very top scat theory, before that you have the Ain, the Ain Soph and the Ain Sophur, which is this sort of

Starting point is 00:16:40 ineffable non-manifest reality, which you can't say much about. And even that idea is shared throughout. That's the same as the Shunyata in Buddhism, I would say. It's the same as the Pleroma in the Gnostic sense. It's the same as the Neti Neti in Hinduism. Not this, not that. So there is that of which, that of which, that which is not manifest, of which we cannot say much That which is not manifest, of which we cannot say much, other than that. But then you have the kind of first little radiance of anything connected to us in some way, and then the energies go down. In any case, I'm saying all this because between all these sehiroth's there's six on the side and four there are these pads these these kind of bridges as it were connecting them there's 22 of them and

Starting point is 00:17:34 then those 22 Hebrew letters and then the 22 trumps in the tarot so he had associated the tarot in the trumps with that and there is no connection between the tarot and the common law. But it's a brilliant, absolutely brilliant, you know, creative, you know, and the whole, again, you look at the history of hermeticism, so much of it is syncretism, it's putting things together. So when you think about some ancient tradition, okay, yeah, that itself, ancient tradition, but the ancient tradition itself is very fluid and it's added to and changed. And there's creative individuals along the way

Starting point is 00:18:20 who turn it into new directions. Do you believe that we right now maybe have a misunderstanding of the occult when you hear people talk about black magic, white magic? Is there black magic? Is there white magic? Do we have a misunderstanding of that in these modern days? It tends to be a misunderstanding. I certainly think there's a difference between abusing these forces or energies or whatever

Starting point is 00:18:52 you want to call it. For personal selfish aims, which is traditionally associated with sorcery and black magic and using them for your inner development in some way or for healing purposes, you know, or in some way to alleviate, you know, the ever increasing suffering on this poor, poor planet here. So but I mean, I think, you know, I think there are, you know, there are four, you know, there are, well, we have, it's one of the things that attracted me when I first started reading about this, the possibility that there were not only forces out there,

Starting point is 00:19:31 spirits and stuff like that, but I was more and have been more interested in forces contained within my own being, my own psyche that I'm not aware of, or because I don't know they're there, I don't draw on them and things of that sort. So I became very interested in that sort of kind of altered states but states of kind of intense kind of consciousness. So I pursued into variety you know again but first came

Starting point is 00:19:56 across this 50 years ago so I was 19 playing in a rock band. So you can assume some imagine some of the intensity experiences. Yes, yes. I was pursuing at the time. But they were also in line with, you know, the variety of different, I mean, I was reading a lot of Alistair Crowley, I was reading a lot of this fellow Wilson, and then, but also everything else, The Golden Dawn. And it was a wonderful time, because she was saying, oh, well, you know, there wasn't the internet. But yeah, but that was great about it because there were bookshops you could go to. Wizers was one in more or less the East Village, Cooper Union, sort of the

Starting point is 00:20:35 bit between sort of the West Village and the East. And this was fantastic. Huge bookshop devoted to the occult, metaphysical, you know, spiritual, all that sort of thing. And they were publisher as well. And then there were others, you know, different parts of town, and then pretty much every, you know, bookshop, even, you know, I mean, they didn't, you didn't have the big chains, but there was there was a Barnes and Noble and places like that, they all had sections of that. And a lot of stuff because there was this occult boom that had started up in the late 60s. Then got going in the early 70s. This book, The Occult by Colin Wilson

Starting point is 00:21:16 came out in 1971. And it was it was a more or less a bestseller was kind of comeback book for him. I mean, I subsequently got to know him, wind up writing a book about him. And he had been an existential philosopher before he was writing about this stuff. And he wasn't a practitioner. He was interested in consciousness. He was interested in these very potentials of consciousness that he was interesting me in by my reading his book. And because I read that book, eventually made a pilgrimage to where he lived in Cornwall in the far west of England in 1983. He passed away in 2013. So a while ago, but from 1983 to 2013, we kept up a kind of, you know, friendship at a distance.

Starting point is 00:21:57 But you know, I visited him quite a bit and we corresponded. But I became more and more interested in that that aspect of it. And just, you know interested in that, that aspect of it. And just, you know, it was exploring a variety of things. Yeah, but it was great to go to these bookshops and then to find, you know, there's nothing for a book of feel like myself, book of file myself, there's no greater pleasure

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Starting point is 00:26:25 for sponsoring the show. We love them long time. So, you know, you brought up Alistair Crowley a couple times, and I want to get into some of the points that you were interested in talking to, because I find it all super interesting. But you bring up Alistair Crowley, and again, going back to kind of what I said about,

Starting point is 00:26:42 you know, our view of the occult, we've had, you know, this episode, we're almost at 900 episodes on this show. And I would say we've had our fair bit of, of Alistair Crowley discussions on here. And I would say that the majority, if not all of them, were somewhat of that he was a dark force. What is your thoughts on that? I Think he was somebody that in many ways is brilliant, but you know, he was a sociopath and You know, he's never outgrew a

Starting point is 00:27:21 Very tiresome need to shock and You know, basically what they, give two fingers to over here, to the establishment kind of thing. But I think in many ways he was brilliant. I think he always talked about your true will and all that, but I think he didn't really understand his own true will, because he considered himself a poet. And I have to say there's a few, there's a handful of good verse, the hymn to Pan was one of the better ones of his, but on the whole he's not as great a poet as he believed he was. I think he, I mean, he was a good mathematician, he was a good chess master, he was a good he was a good mountaineer, an

Starting point is 00:28:05 eccentric one. But I think he had a different idea about who he was. And I think the two unfortunate things in his life early on was that he grew up in this fundamentalist Christian family, this Plymouth Brethren family here, who thought, you know, Christmas was a evil pagan. who thought, you know, Christmas was an evil pagan ritual, so, you know, they didn't do that. And he actually went along with that, you know, up until he was about 11 years old and his father died. And then somehow he felt, because he idolized his father, and his father was a preacher in this religious group. And he went over to, he even says himself in his, the confessions that he went over to Satan's side at that point. So he didn't stop believing, he just changed sides. He started

Starting point is 00:28:53 playing for the other team. It's very interesting. As it were, but, but that was, and the next thing that happened was that he inherited this fortune. And while he was growing up, his parents gave him whatever he wanted. So he grew up, you know, he didn't have to work, you know, he never lifted a finger to do anything. He somehow assumed that if he opened his mouth, you know, roast chicken would just fly into it kind of thing. And when he ran through that fortune you know in you know a few years which in today's money is like an enormous amount of money i think it was i think it was like 40 000 pounds when he got it but that was like obviously i don't know whenever he was 21 so i'm trying to like i can't do the math on top of my head right now but you know it's

Starting point is 00:29:39 an enormous you know fortune and he got through pretty quickly and then when he actually had to work for a living, my god. But, you know, I mean, I think, you know, I think one of the one of the interesting things about Crowley, you know, I've written a book about it. I've written a book about Crowley, you know, that was to Crowley, magic rock and roll and the wickedest man in the world. And the theme of the theme of that book is how curly he became and why he maintained being a hate the word icon, but a kind of rock and roll, or then he was a rap icon or whatever,

Starting point is 00:30:12 a kind of rebel icon in popular culture. But the thing with him is that he just, he had no guide rails, you know, he was allowed to do whatever he wanted. But then later on, when he when he had to sort of fend for himself, he, you know, he was, you know, that's why he died in poverty and all that. But I think he was brilliant. But I think the problem was that he just never got over this need to shock. And then also his abuse of people. He used everyone around him.

Starting point is 00:30:54 Practically everybody got involved in them, wound up regretting it if they remained sane enough to regret or were alive to regret. But I mean, the other side of it, he's kind of a lovable rogue at times. You know, he's very, he's very funny, had a great sense of humor. And he always kind of comes up, it's kind of like one of these slightly dastardly characters that in some way you still nevertheless, what's the word, appreciate that they managed to somehow land on their feet, like some 19th century character who somehow still gets away

Starting point is 00:31:33 with it or W.C. Fields, I don't know if people still know who W.C. Fields is, kind of character. So there is that kind of character to, aha, he skirts away once again. But I know, I mean, there's a lot of these characters are remarkably brilliant. All of them, you know, Blavatsky and Girgev and you know, they all have a certain trickster character to them. I was watching a video the other day about Karl's Marx and how like, he came from a rich family and then his dad died and just destroyed him. And it seems like

Starting point is 00:32:06 that's a theme, maybe even Luke Skywalker, right? I mean, obviously that's unreal, but it's interesting the effect that has on people. So then we take a look at modern day society, and I feel like there's this kind of movement to get back into the church. You hear churches now are starting to fill up again, and it just seems like we've had this kind of pendulum swing from this super progressive, now we're kind of swinging back to the left and getting into church. And one of the things you wanted to talk about was, and I hope that is a nice lead into that, is about how the holy Russia and what's going on over there.

Starting point is 00:32:49 And so I would love to hear about that because it's a very interesting time in our world with Russia and Iran and Israel and all that stuff going on. What are your thoughts? Well, I mean, I don't have much to say about what's happening right now in Israel and Iran. It's an absolute shame and tragedy that so much violence is going on. Yeah, I agree. We're at a place where everything is just very radically uncertain and all that. But in my book, The Return of Holy Russia, it was more or less about how Putin, again, this was say 10 years or so ago, and I wrote it after writing Dark Star

Starting point is 00:33:40 because I have a long chapter in Dark Star Rising about Russia and what was happening up until then. I mean that book came out in 2018. I started writing it just after Trump's election. So I started writing it 10 years ago, but it had a lot of material about Russia in it and then left over. And so that's how I approached the publisher and said, why are you interested in something about Russia? And what interested me at the time is Putin was making, in his speeches, making many references to a period in Russian history known as the Silver Age, which was just before the Bolshevik Revolution in the 19-teens. And the Silver Age was characterized by a sort of renaissance of spirituality in art and in literature and in music and in life, but also a deep renewed interest in the occult

Starting point is 00:34:40 and the mystical and, you know, things associated with that. Excuse me. And Putin has kept making references to this. And he was sort of and he's also making references to a kind of identity that Russia had in the 19th century as being holy Russia. Because it saw itself as the last true bastion, last bastion of the true faith, the last culture really holding on to the true Christian faith, which was Greek, Russian Orthodox, right? So the church in the West had become decadent and, you know, the democracies and socialism and all that other stuff, and Russia was, you know, still holding on to this traditionalism things of that

Starting point is 00:35:28 sort. So he's making references to all the and I thought it was interesting because he's mentioning philosophers that I had read and I thought whatever you know whatever use he's making of them and no doubt it's strategic and it's political and you know let's not take it at face value but it's interesting that he is referencing these philosophers who I read and I find fascinating. But the response to that in the West was typically how Putin wants to kind of revive this kind of what they call kind of exceptionalist view of Russia as being a world historical civilization.

Starting point is 00:36:07 And that was one of the other things too, where Putin is talking about how Russia today is not just another country, and mind you, this is the only time in Russian history where it isn't an empire, doesn't have an empire. That may inform his actions of late. But it's not only a new country, it's a new civilization. It's a totally new kind of world culture that he's calling Eurasia. And this is based on a variety of different geopolitical, sort of historical philosophy of history,

Starting point is 00:36:48 ideas about how the West is in decline and going down and this new civilization arising in the East. And this is stuff that's been kind of going on for at least a hundred years now. So in any case, that interests me. So when you talk about return to the church, I mean, that is that, that, you know, interests me. So I, you know, when you talk about a return to the church, I mean, that was something that's, you know, in Russia for a while,

Starting point is 00:37:11 especially after the collapse of the Soviets, when, you know, people were openly able to go out. And a variety of different, you know, there's like a renewed Russian paganism and then pan-Slavic religious movements and things of that sort. So there's a variety of different things, and I talk about them and I poke on Russia. So you've got that, but in the States, it's a, I mean, one thing about the States that's different from the UK, where I've been living for 30 years now, just about, is that you

Starting point is 00:37:44 don't get the hot gospel here. You do not know you don't get the sex stuff you know Jesus loves me or whatever. You just don't. It's like that people do that there's a in Hyde Park there's an area called Speakers Corner so I mean people do it everywhere it's the kind of thing people do in the street but you know what I mean but in in the States, you get, you know, lots of people hept up on that kind of thing. And I must that, let's go back to the Puritan, you know, origin, because the Puritans were religious in their cases, who left, who left calm, sort of lukewarm, tepid England, you know, because they were more extremists. They weren't happy with the kind of compromise the Church of England had. They had those

Starting point is 00:38:32 dissenters. You know, you said Christianity, and you said you include Catholicism. Well, yeah, Catholicism is Christianity, but then you have the dissenters, and the dissenters here for any number of different Christian sects that broke away, a variety of different ones. But yeah, I mean, in the States, it's, I think one of the things, I would say because although the founding fathers, you know, were Freemasons and all that. But there's also the separation of church and state. So unlike here, there's the Church of England. There is no Church of America, although there's people there today who would like there to

Starting point is 00:39:16 be such a thing. But there is a Church of England here, the C of E. You don't have a Church of America. So I don't know, I don't know right top of my head if there are other countries that have, there's a state religion, there may very well be, I'm not saying there aren't, but you don't have that. So that was one of the founding, even though, when I remember when I was a kid growing up, we used to say, you know, we did say prayer in school, and then they stopped that. And then there was the P there was the pledge allegiance where you say, you know, under god all this kind of thing like that. Um, but um, I think the whole thing of that kind of secular character to America and it's it's kind of essence it's kind of essence, a personality being one of material success, which is open to everybody.

Starting point is 00:40:17 This is the liberal idea. Everyone can, you know, with the wherewithal and the effort and, you know, all that has an opportunity to make it. And the whole idea of, you know, the pursuit of happiness, well, it doesn't tell you what you should be happy about. It says, well, you figure that out for yourself. We'll allow you to do that. And you figure that out for yourself. And in different ways, I think what happens in that situation is the kind of emptiness in American life, in the sense of it being kind of focused on material goods and comfort and security.

Starting point is 00:40:46 And rightly so, those are good things. They're not necessarily negligible. But if that's all there is, and I'm not necessarily saying people are bad because that may be the essence of their life, it may be all they're aware of. But there is, we do have, you know, Jung said we have a religious function in the same way we have other functions. You know, we do have, you know, Jung said we have a religious function in the same way we have other functions. You know, we do have spiritual needs in the same way we have other needs. And if they aren't fulfilled, in, I don't know, what do you want to say, healthy? In kinds of ways, they'll be fulfilled in other ways. Just like, you know, if you're hungry, you can eat junk food or you can go, you know, have a good healthy

Starting point is 00:41:24 meal somewhere. Pete Yeah, I agree with all that. I think it's interesting. The reason I say Catholicism is, I don't know, maybe because it's the Vatican and seems to have its own vibe, its own thing compared to other Christian, Christianity's and it's so powerful and it controls so much of our world and it also has its tentacles in almost everything and maybe that's why I just see it as its own thing compared to Christianity which clumps in all these other offshoots and branches of Christianity. Yeah, we've got Protestantism, this whole variety of, I mean, you know, Christianity is very, very strange, you know, to Christianity.

Starting point is 00:42:05 So, I mean, that's one of the things, you know, it, yeah, you have the Petrin Church, which is what Catholicism is, is the church that supposed to have started with Peter, and you are the rock on which I will build my church, and Petra means rock. If we are petrified, you know, we turn to stone. So Peter means stone and he was the stone upon which the church would be built. So that's the Petran church, that's the church that won out. But in the early days, there were the Gnostics, there were a Christian group, but they had a whole different idea about Christ's life and all that. And fundamentally it was that they saw the crucifixion and the passion was all that is

Starting point is 00:42:48 symbolic, not as an actual historical event, whereas the literalists, the Petron Church, saw it as an actual historical kind of event that took place. And from that, they concluded that if we emulated that in some way, you know, we ourselves would, you know, we go through our own individual, literal passion, you know, kind of crucifixion will follow in Christ's footsteps with the Gnostics, who pursues something that is known as gnosis, which was a Greek word for knowledge, but not the knowledge that comes in books, or study or experiment or observation, which is

Starting point is 00:43:24 episteme. but the knowledge hits you like that immediately. It's a vision, it's a knowledge, it's an experience at the same time. They believe this was Christian. I mean, it's a whole, I mean, narcissism, you must know that, it's a whole huge area of study. But there's the whole idea, the day were the real Christians and the other ones kind of the literalists wiped them out as it were. So, I mean, the fundamental is today, I would say. I mean, if that's what you mean by the return to the church, I don't have statistics. I don't know how much that means that people really believing or whatever, but I certainly know with the fellow in the White House now, he has associations

Starting point is 00:44:14 with the Christian right and fundamentalism and all that. There's also talk about… I was going to say, so I mean, Putin in Russia. He's like a mafia boss. Yeah People he kills people but he gives lots of money to church and there's always lots of flowers Yeah, yeah, that's he goes and he does he goes to penance and he just goes kill some more people Yeah, that's a great point man You bring up that there that they you know, there's just kind of mystical awakening in Russia and a struggle for the soul the world what Do you mean by that?

Starting point is 00:44:47 well that be honest was the Publishers subtitle I Mean, but the but in the sense what is in a sense it is the case because the the idea is that the West No longer has a soul The West is so doubted, which we could relate to religion. This is a long historical trajectory that we could follow. We don't have time for that. But as I said, has arrived at, I said, liberalism is the notion of like letting people pursue their own happiness. It doesn't tell you what their happiness is. It doesn't say what to pursue or give you any hints about it.

Starting point is 00:45:26 Let you do that. So that was the kind of freedom that people wanted away from the church, let's say, a church that maybe had people's best intentions at heart, but it was a smothering kind of love. Rather it was like too controlling. And the church didn't like enthusiasts and all that, that you stay in line. So people that, you know, the spirit, you know, if the spirit fills me, I will sing, you know, the spirit is my heart, I will sing, you know, they really felt, you know, so the enthusiasts were a problem for the church. So you have, this is a dialectic through all of it, through all of it. And the famous treatment of this is a book by a French philosopher named Henri Bergson in the early 20th century, his last great work called Two Theories on the, or I forget exactly, on Two Theories on the Origin of Religion and Morals or

Starting point is 00:46:17 something. I'm mixing it up, top of my head. But fundamentally, he talks about two different kinds of religion. There's static and dynamic. And the dynamic is the early visionary kind of religion, the revelatory religion, where you have some religious figure who's got the mojo, who's got the mana, and people recognize him. That's the dynamic, the dynamic early bit of it and then it codifies, it congeals. But not everybody can be dynamic, not everybody can be enthused. If you want it, if you somehow the religion is going to spread and have not just be part of a cult or a sect, it's going to spread and somehow inform the whole civilization. It has to somehow be passed on in a way that it's not that kind of powerful inspirational

Starting point is 00:47:06 way. So then it becomes codified. So the idea is like, well, if you do this, if you follow these rules, if you follow these kind of guidelines, there's a good chance that you will be on your way to salvation or whatever that might be. And okay, so that's good, but then that congeals. That becomes too static. So you have this dialectic.

Starting point is 00:47:31 We haven't figured out a way to get around it yet, historically. Because the thing is, the other thing I think about, again, this is the top of my head, the other thing I think about, you know, the Maga thing, which is a religious movement, I would say, itself, is that it gives people a sense of meaning. As I'm going, I just say, I'm going back to this whole thing about the whole, the rise, kind of the materialist West,

Starting point is 00:47:53 the rise of the materialist West. Modernism is associated with materialism. Socialism is associated with materialism. It's associated with creating better material conditions for the people, the downtrodden poor, you know, the plebs, the serfs, you know, the slaves, all of them. So they live horribly and other people live well. So let's create a system in which they can live well as well. And religion is one of these things that kept the people down according to that point of view. That's the opium of the people, you mentioned Marx. So let's get rid of that. And that's why even today, generally, the occult and magic is associated with the right because the right is more linked to tradition.

Starting point is 00:48:36 Whereas on the left, it isn't because it's progressive. Although you can find in the history, and I've written about this, you can find a kind of progressive occultism, find in the history, and I've written about this, you can find a kind of progressive occultism, progressive occult politics. Madame Blavatsky is one example of that. Victoria Woodhull, who ran for president in 1872, obviously she didn't win, but she was a free love, mesmerist, health cure, psychic, you know. So yeah, there is, if you look for it, you can, you can, you can find kind of the progressive occult politics, but the sexy bit is always kind of the far right stuff. Hey guys, real quick. I want to tell you about our good friends at Helix sleep. That's right. The best mattress in the game. You sleep so much.

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Starting point is 00:50:58 That's interesting to me because I've always associated kind of like mysticism and all that stuff with this kind of like the left which is like this, you know, they're doing sex rituals and witches and the empowerment of the feminine divine and all that stuff. So, you're saying it's from the right that's very interesting to me. I'll start. David Well, I mean, I'm not saying there isn't that but generally, I mean, if you look at just most treatments of political treatments of the occult,

Starting point is 00:51:28 it tends to see it as associated with the right. Crowley was in no way the leftist. Crowley was a libertarian elitist, and he would have appreciated Trump. There's a guy named James Wasserman who's- That would have been weird. That Hollywood would be absolutely devastated if they heard that. No, I'm just saying this is you know, there's so much of that. So,

Starting point is 00:51:52 you know, the whole idea, the Julius Evela, you know, Julius Evela, he was the 20th century, Italian esoteric thinker, who who cozied up to Mussolini and fascists and also to national socialism in Germany. His racial ideas informed, certainly he tried to get the national socios pick it up, but it was too complicated for them. But it did inform some of Mussolini's ideas on race in Italy. And then after World War II, he became a kind of eminence Greece in the background of a variety of different far right groups in Italy. And then the alt-right, he was one of the intellectual heavyweights

Starting point is 00:52:36 for the alt-right that showed that they weren't- Very interesting, very interesting. So I mean, but I'm saying, but I'm surprised this is news to you. There's a whole history of this. I mean, Umberto Eco, the Italian novelist and writer, I mean, Foucault's pendulum, a variety of other things where he makes this argument and, you know, many other places as well.

Starting point is 00:53:00 So I mean, it's actually it's usually the other way around. The people are surprised to hear that. Oh, really, there's some kind of far left. I mean, and in the 1960s, there's the famous anti-war march, the Vietnam War March, 1967 on Washington, at which Norman Mailer, Allen Ginsberg, Ed Sanders, Kenneth Anger, and a variety of other progressive counterculture figures tried to encircle the Pentagon because they wanted to levitate it. Really? They were on a flatbed truck in front of the White House saying, out demons out. They were trying to exercise the White House and all those kinds of stuff. So I know there was all kind of radical magical politics in the 60s.

Starting point is 00:53:51 So yeah, I mean, I write about my first book, it's called turn off your mind, the mystic 60s in the dark side of the age of wow, I never heard that. Oh, hey, you guys don't do your homework. Yeah, we're trying. That's why we're having you on. You're doing your homework. You're doing your homework. We can get the cheat codes. I leave it up to you guys. We get the Cliff Notes first.

Starting point is 00:54:10 At least take a look at the Wikipedia. I promise you, that's my goal and that's my homework now. She's going to learn my code. The horse is bolted from the corral. But this is okay. Well, you get into like the Nazis, there's a socialism and all that stuff is, is that's obviously far right, of course, and they're deep look into the occult and that crazy time Crowley and, you know, getting into like, I forget who, who did he battle? Um, they had sorcery battles and it was like, it's super interesting time. All that stuff was super interesting time. Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, John Lee was, was his name. So I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:54:55 I forget the guy he battled the other, the other sorcerer that he Mathers. Yeah. He had a sort of an occult deal with him. Well, like the guy in the White House now, he always turned on his colleagues, as it were, his accomplices, as it were. So there was only one or two men in his life that he had any respect for. One was Oscar Ekenstein, who was a mountaineer and a fellow named Alan Dennett, who taught him magic when Crowley was very early in the golden dawn, who later became a Buddhist and moved to Ceylon. But Crowley generally turned on people. So Mathers was the head of the Golden Dawn when he joined. And he was, he was having trouble with, he was in Paris at the time, Mathers living there. And

Starting point is 00:55:51 then he had trouble, he was having trouble with the London branch that Crowley had joined and W.B. Eights, the poet who had previously been a theosophist, but became interested in ceremonial magic and was the head of this branch in Hammersmith here in London and he didn't care for Crowley. I mean Crowley was a rather you know unsavory character and very pushy individual. So he was somebody who was full of himself and you know well I said like someone I've been alluding to all evening somebody very full of himself who would always kind of, you know, shove his face in yours and tell you. There's a famous story where,

Starting point is 00:56:33 yeah, because Yeats is a poet and at this point he was recognized as a poet. Curly was spending large sums of money getting his poetry published, self-publishing. So he was doing these Vanity Press things, sumptuous, leather-bound collections of his poetry. And he had shown Yeats some of his poems. And he was waiting for Yeats to say, brother poet, slap him on the back. He kind of coughed and made some non- made some, you know, non-committal bland, very interesting, you know, remark, a kind of thing like that. And Crowley said, I knew it. He immediately recognized what a much better poet I was and he couldn't bring himself to admit it. So he's just one of these kinds of characters who, you know, some people were mesmerized him, some weak in some ways, or unbalanced individuals, or people looking, you know, for a thrill. They were attracted to him, but, you know, a lot of people just found him rather unsavory.

Starting point is 00:57:41 But yeah, he got, yeah, that was like the famous battle. I mean, I forget exactly what they did. But I mean, this is something that there's a lot of accounts of this, you know, fluidic fisticuffs where people are sending astral left jabs and roundhouses across the plane at each other. It all depends how seriously you take it, I would say. Now, when you were in your band, did you see this occult influence in this music and all that stuff and some of the people that were getting traction in the media

Starting point is 00:58:23 and with the record labels. Did you see this stuff? Not on the New York scene. I mean, that wasn't really, I mean, I just was doing this for myself. It wasn't really something that was part of the music, although I myself wrote a song based on paranormal experiences I have with my girlfriend that became a big hit for Blondie. It's called I'm Always Touched by Your Presence, too. It was a hit in the UK and Europe. It didn't do as well in the States, but it hit the top 10 here. And it was a song about how when Blondie was the support act for Iggy Pop in a North American tour in 1977. And this was when

Starting point is 00:59:02 David Bowie had resurrected Iggy. His career had gone into decline, as it were. David Bowie had resurrected Iggy. His career had gone into decline as it were. And Bowie had resurrected him and on this tour, Bowie himself was playing keyboards, but unannounced. He was incognito. That's crazy. Oh, he was there, but nobody knew it was him? Well, I mean, yeah, this is before the internet, anything like that, but Werthog got out.

Starting point is 00:59:24 You know, Werthog got out. Is he really? I don't know. Oh yeah, I saw him. He was at the show. Wow. You know, that kind of thing where people were calling each other on the phone. You know, again, this is, and that's a good lead up to the point of the story is that on that tour, whenever I wanted to call my girlfriend, Lisa Jane Kersky, who was a photographer and a writer for magazines at the time, and subsequently an actress in stage, screen, and television, she would be just about to have picked up the phone and try to call me or we would have

Starting point is 01:00:07 this we would be talking about our dreams and I had the same dream. That's crazy. Things like that. So we were having these shared dream experiences and sort of telepathic experiences. So I, after that tour, I wrote the song, Movies Touched by Your Presence Dear, and we debuted it on our first UK tour here in 1977, a while ago. And then it became a release, I think,

Starting point is 01:00:31 22nd single or third single here. And it was a big hit. So yeah, so that was my first venture into writing about this stuff. And for myself, my only kind of contact with the occult in music, this was something I later, you know, wrote about because it was an idea that came to me about how the 1960s, so much of the popular pop culture was influenced by magic and things of that sort. Starting in the 1960s with the book called The Morning and the Magicians, which was published in Paris.

Starting point is 01:01:05 And it was it was this grab bag of a bouquet of different weird ideas, conspiracy ideas, magic ideas, a cult. That's one of the first ones to talk about the occult Nazis. And it talks about Crowley. I mean, Crowley died in in was it 47. And he you know, he was in the news, he did everything he could to keep himself in the news while he was alive. But then soon after his death, he kind of sunk and then there was a renewed interest in him through this book and others. And it just quickly became something that the

Starting point is 01:01:46 puppy pop variety of the other books came out and then television shows and then movies and then the Beatles when the Beatles put Crowley on the cover of Sergeant Peppers, along with CG Jung and Aldous Huxley and a couple of swamis and a variety of Agriela and Poe and a variety of other weird sorts of things he became oh, you know, he's part of the ones we like. And Timothy Leary picked it up and all that kind of thing. So he was rediscovered then.

Starting point is 01:02:13 So I did the research into that. And here I interviewed people who around at the time, I was a kid at the time, so I wasn't into it myself. And aside from this fellow who rented us the law space, who lived there, I didn't really have any contact with other people interested in this kind of thing. Although I know there were, there was this bookshop called Magical Child that apparently had something going on in the back room. But I'd visited a few times, but I always found it a bit dark. So I prefer to go to this place, Wizers.

Starting point is 01:02:49 But my own interest in this was sort of, you know, mine. And eventually it's what, you know, took me out of music, because I got more interested in reading and books and ideas and philosophy and consciousness than I did in rock and roll. I became too smart for rock and roll. Pete You're a very smart man, for sure. For sure. When you, when you, when you get in,

Starting point is 01:03:11 when you discuss mysticism, magic, sorcery, like, what are we talking about? I mean, because I've been, you know, obviously, this is kind of a different area, but you know, I talk about a lot of stuff you see with this next-gen weaponry and you know, you got your iPhone reading your thoughts and you got and all that stuff. And I often say they've been working on this so long that they've hardwired mysticism. What is mysticism to you? What is sorcery to you? When you discuss that, what are you talking about?

Starting point is 01:03:47 Well, I said earlier, I mean, I don't wear sorcery that much, but sorcery, I said, it's kind of black magic. I mean, I'm sure there's a very technical term for it, but it tends to be using magical powers for dubious ends. But in the sense that tech is starting to mimic or manifest or make real or enable abilities that had seemed magical, I would say that's the case, certainly. I tend to see the internet as a kind of exteriorized imagination. And I also tend to see, you know, what do you want to call it the kind of constant input many people

Starting point is 01:04:34 have from their phones as a kind of colonization of interiority. So I'm one of these dinosaurs who are dragging all my feet, and I don't do that stuff. So, yeah. And I never correct AI whenever it asks me to. I want it to fail. Did you hear me? I want it to fail.

Starting point is 01:04:56 It's going to remember this. Yeah. Um It's just interesting to me like because like You know are they getting to dr. Strange from marvel comic level of energy manipulation? Yeah, sure Remember that's you know, that's that's old that's old. That's old. That's magic I mean you can call it whatever call it quantum something or other and somebody will listen to call it magic in the whole. Interesting.

Starting point is 01:05:28 One of the interesting books about this in sort of recent times, the book called Real Magic, a guy named Dean Raden, who's a scientist who studies paranormal. And basically his argument in the book is the stuff that we used to call magic is what the parent parapsychologists have been studying for years. And there's statistics about it, there's data, and it's real and it happens. So telekinesis, and my own definition of magic is induced synchronicity. So, you know, a synchronicity is a meaningful coincidence. There's something up happening in here, right? Whatever it is you're thinking about

Starting point is 01:06:07 and obsessed with and, you know, focused on. Suddenly there's something outside that lets you know that some agency is absolutely aware of what you are thinking of. And it's letting you know that it knows what you're thinking of. And it's eating at, you know, saying in some ways, it's not just like, oh, go away, just what, it's like you thought of something, but you've been thinking about something. And then there's something there that is absolutely so cogent and germane and relevant to whatever it is

Starting point is 01:06:37 that you're thinking about that you can't avoid the thought that this has been arranged in some way. Now, of course, this is what crazy people think. But thankfully, C.G. Young, who studied and helped crazy people and was himself a crazy person, a certain time when he came to these ideas, he came up with this notion of this meaningful coincidence. Synchronously just means it happens at the same time,

Starting point is 01:07:02 synchronous, so in here and out there at the same time. But okay, that happens. It's happened to me enough times to me to accept it. I think it's a natural fact. I think it's something that takes place in the world. Hardcore, regular scientists would like to avoid it and explain it away and statistically, whatever it is. But when you've experienced it yourself enough times, that attempt becomes very threadbare. The next step is, can you make it happen? Yes. That's magic.

Starting point is 01:07:32 In a certain sense, I think any attempt to make it happen would be black magic because you're hijacking a natural phenomena and using it for personal reasons, although we do that Obviously we do it a little time, you know the the stream powers the mill so again Are we hijacking the stream then well actually no, we're just attaching the mill to it So I don't know. I'm up to mines about this. I mean, I I think yeah, I I'm a naturalist when it comes to this I pay attention. And I observe and I notice and things happen, but I don't go out of my way to try to make

Starting point is 01:08:10 them. I don't know if you know, you know, that I wrote a book about precognitive dreams. That's the closest I want to read all your books, man. I do. Parapsychology. I did a book about having dreams in the future. So and it also talks about having dreams in the future. So, and it also talks about, like having dreams in the future, dreams in which bits and pieces of the future turn up in the dream, not predicting anything. You don't know when you wake up,

Starting point is 01:08:34 you've dreamt about the future, but then that day, the next day, later that week, you're in a situation and you think, oh Jesus, this is exactly like the dream I had last week. So I write my dreams down. And I have I have done so for 40 something years by now. And you are like on a notepad because I don't know whenever I try to write my dreams down the second you start writing you forget like it's

Starting point is 01:08:56 like it happens pretty instantly. You do. I just got to keep doing it. You got to keep just got to keep doing it. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I've tried doing it when you literally sit down, like I want to remember my dreams. And then you're like, what was it? Well, I can tell you is with me, I, you know, I used to if I woke up middle of the night in the dream, get the notepad, write it down. Now I'm I, I can remember them and I write them all down, you know, when I wake up proper, but I

Starting point is 01:09:23 believe it is an ability, you can train yourself, you can, like a muscle, you know, I don't know how long you've been trying to do it, but A couple times, yeah, a couple times, it's nothing mate. I agree, but that's why I gave up, because I thought Just do it, just do it, just do it, and you have to want to do it. No, and he's right, it's a muscle, I didn't look at it like a muscle. I was like, maybe I'm not good at this. But also think of whoever is responsible for your dreams as a shy person that you'd like

Starting point is 01:09:53 to be friends with. You have to sort of show them you're attentive. Don't push him. Don't push him. Don't get pissed off. You don't remember him. Just say, okay, well, next time. Any slightest little image that comes to you. Because it is the case that if you pay attention to this other part of you, which is not you, but it is more actually, it's more the case that you were part of it, will respond. I firmly believe that's the case. Dream journaling is also a technique for inducing lucid dreaming, right? Do you have lucid dreaming? Yeah, I mean, there is all that stuff.

Starting point is 01:10:34 There's all these manuals and different things. I've tried a variety of different things. Have you had more lucid dreams, though, since you started journaling your dreams? In the past, I've had quite a few dreams. Okay. More recent years I haven't had as many, but I have had some.

Starting point is 01:10:54 Fast-making. But the peacock in the dreams I've had still happen. Sleep paralysis, have you had? Oh yeah, well that was one of the things that actually got me interested in studying dreams and sleep because I probably was subject to sleep paralysis quite a bit. And yeah, I mean, I write about that a little bit in this book. The book is called Dreaming Ahead of Time and I write about that a little bit. I mean, and that's, you know, that's supposed to be states that are prone to out of the

Starting point is 01:11:22 body experiences or abduction experiences and things of that sort. Or the hag, the incubus or the succubus. Do you put stock in that personally? With respect to sleep paralysis, any of those supernatural explanations? I don't know. I keep an open mind. Have you experienced something dark? It's not 24 hours.

Starting point is 01:11:44 It is open 24 hours, but I keep an open mind. Have you experienced something dark? It's not 24 hours, it is an open 24 hours, but I keep an open mind. Have you experienced anything dark during sleep paralysis? One time I did, but I was conscious enough to think I actually didn't really want this in my life. It was all very interesting, but at the time my life was complicated enough. No thanks. But at the time, my life is complicated enough. So I felt it there at the time. I felt that had I submitted, something might have happened, but I decided, no, I don't really want this.

Starting point is 01:12:17 It just was a focusing of my thoughts saying, actually, no, I don't really want this. It wasn't a focusing of my thoughts saying actually, no, I don't really want this. It wasn't kind of a fighter wrestling, but it was more of a tight focusing. But no, I've had encounters in dreams. I mean, I just mentioned in passing dreams, I'm like battling witches or sorceries and things like that. But this is a while ago. So as you get older, you tend not to remember your dreams as much. It's not so much that you don't dream as much, you don't remember

Starting point is 01:12:52 them as much. But I said that's one reason why any little dream image I remember I write down. So I just try to keep the... Again, to me, it's all a gradient. so the dreams and then synchronicities and punches and whatever other sorts of non-voluntary interactivity that I me is the voluntary one can be aware of because that that's what I can do. That's what I can do I can make sure I pay attention to these things. Yeah But yeah, I mean that's what like lucid dreams. I think this again. That's two minds where I can understand Basically, it's making use of them to be able to deal with you know inner fears and neuroses and Other kinds of things or just just to enjoy some kind of inner experience.

Starting point is 01:13:47 But then if dreams are created by, say Jung would say the self, which is not the ego, not you, then if you want to kind of get a hold of them and use them in some way, get ahold of them and, you know, use them for some way, then you're kind of not allowing, you know, the source of the dream to, you know, put it's whatever message it has to come through itself, you're sort of. But again, these things, these things is there's all debate about this. I mean, I've, you know, there's different people I know I mean, I was just last month. I just was in Greece at a variety of different oracle sites ancient sites in Greece Epidavaris and

Starting point is 01:14:35 Elucis and variety others Delphi Where we were trying to induce dreams at them I can't I can't say it was particularly successful for me, but there are other people on the journey who I think they probably had more luck with it. So wow, let me tell you guys, let me tell you, it's getting a bit late for me here. Yeah, sorry we started late. This has been a great discussion. We shorted it. We shorted it an hour though, didn't we?

Starting point is 01:15:04 Yeah, we're good. So it's a great discussion. We be short it we should have did an hour though. Didn't we? Yeah So last question and we'll let you go. Are you working on any new books? Well, I've got a book coming out. I got a book coming out in November in the States It's called touched by the presence and that refers to the song touched by your presence dear and As I mentioned it's about how I went from playing in Blondie and then I had my own band called The Know for a while and I played with Iggy Pop for a while and then other musicians over the years. How I went from doing that to doing what I do now, writing, you know, becoming a writer.

Starting point is 01:15:42 So there was a long stretch. It was a good 10 years between retiring from music, I think, I don't know, 27 or something. And just the first kind of stuff I get started getting published in magazines and things like that in the early 1990s. And then I came here at the beginning of 1996. So with any luck, in January, I'll be celebrating my 30th anniversary of arriving on these shores. Well, congratulations, sir. Appreciate you coming on the show. You can find your books, just put your name on the internet and they'll find your books and I just, Gary, I really appreciate you coming on and putting up with our beginning. Sorry about that and thanks for doing the show and good luck with everything.

Starting point is 01:16:34 Thank you, man. My pleasure. Take care. Take care. Take care now. All right, guys, let's get into it. One of the most interesting conversations we've had. For everybody, for him too. I don't think he's talked to a Mexican before. Yeah, I definitely think that's for true. I don't even think at their Mexican restaurants, they have real Mexicans. Yeah, it's more their Indian food is the big cuisine over there. It is actually in the UK. It is the official like cuisine of the UK. Like curry. It's Indian food. Curry. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:03 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I mean he's an intellectual heavyweight for sure you could tell he's you know to quit off a very successful band to go into book reading and writing is a Luxury and a blessing and it was a great conversation. It was a very Because we got notes on one thing and the conversation went a totally different way. Yeah, Mark. No, it's not Mark.

Starting point is 01:17:30 It was the guest, what the guest wanted to talk about. And the guest didn't want to go into the occult. And we had some, again, we're in our new studio, so we had some technical difficulties that ate some time up And I think he was and I think he wanted to do an hour. Yeah, which is fine. I I I do that all the time Hey, man, I got an hour. Can I have you longer? No, I got an hour dude. I got an hour hours long conversation Let's do it. It's called broken simulation folks. Check it out. No, that's What are you talking

Starting point is 01:18:05 about that guy would bail out so quickly on that show hey can you come on that broken save show johnny i gotta go johnny yeah johnny i gotta go that's everyone's favorite thing is johnny i gotta go dude it's always at like two hours and 30 minutes i'm tired i'm old dude you can't stop ranting it's that's the funny thing is it's just it's up to you if you literally said I'm done Johnny got up and left it'd be over but you just you just keep throwing things at you and you keep Catching the dressing dude is take on a lot of stuff. It's all perspective of where you see it I wanted to ask him about Led Zeppelin and all that cult stuff with them, you know, but Well, yeah, he seems to kind of be kind of what would you say on the fence about like yeah

Starting point is 01:18:48 Could we like, you know, like the dreams being he said something very interesting which is when you use magic magic Magic itself is not good or bad. There's a lot of people say there's no such thing as white magic You know, and that's an Intel. That's a very interesting conversation that there's no such thing as white magic, you know, and that's an until that's a very interesting conversation that there's no such thing as white magic. But his whole thing is like any the use of magic is black magic, because you're manipulating a natural process. And I found that really interesting. Yeah, that is now I've heard people say magic. You're doing magic whether you know it or not. Yeah, I think everything is magic. And so, but in using it with intention, it's just

Starting point is 01:19:32 kind of focusing that energy. But then you have other people who say doing that, you're kind of, there's, it's almost like the force in Star Wars, you know? Yeah. The reason that Luke Skywalker was born was because Darth Vader, in Star Wars, you know? The reason that Luke Skywalker was born was because Darth Vader, Anakin Skywalker existed, and there's always the balancing, there's always something to balance in it. Yeah. And so, yeah, I don't, I...

Starting point is 01:19:55 Johnny, did you find it all interesting, his take on magic tends to be a conservative thing? Yes, I did, and he said that like it was self-evident, you know, like something, oh, I mean, obviously, like something obviously yeah you know and again who I can't I'm not challenging him on that no because I'm on anything yeah I mean he's intellectually light years ahead of me you know he's using words I'm like I don't know what that word is um but I mean like I would say maybe in modern ways, maybe when it comes to the power structure, it could be right wing, but I find on, like, on an everyday people level, it seems to be

Starting point is 01:20:36 more left wing, but I could be wrong. Yeah, I mean, it is interesting because when you think about the actual practitioners, like, okay, like, Nancy Reagan was someone who was, you know, into tarot and astrology and all that stuff. He mentioned that Crowley, I never really thought of Crowley as a libertarian type, but I guess he is. I mean, I'm going to take his word for it. He seems to have written 20 books. Pete Slauson Yeah. But it also gets into Johnny and Xavier as well, but you know, that maybe the occult is above the left and right. Yes, yeah. And that's kind of a common theme here,

Starting point is 01:21:11 that it's not Abrahamic religions, it's way above that. Well, yeah, I wouldn't know if I would say it's above it, but it is on a parallel, you know what I mean? It's not, it's separate for sure. I thought he was amazing to talk to I know you you know, you guys almost 70 You know I get why you want to do an hour. I hope I could talk to that guy for hours Yeah, totally. I was enthralled. Did you know you can just buy audio books his books. He always reads them I'm assuming you got 22 bucks. I'm assuming you can just probably bang one out here it out

Starting point is 01:21:45 Yeah, I could do that Yes, Sam was he's gonna say he's gonna read the book and then forget about it I am reading books as we speak. All right, I'm almost done with the John Lennon book. Let's start a book club How long you been reading that? It's like is busy are you are you reading it or. Well, Johnny, it's like life is busy, dude. Are you reading it or doing audio? I'm reading it. I like to read.

Starting point is 01:22:09 I'm not in audio books. I'm into reading it. The props to that, because I'm mostly doing audio. You know where I know you could bang out a lot of books, but you decide to fall asleep? Where? Flights. No, if you had the flight idea, you would bang books.

Starting point is 01:22:22 The problem with half my books have some Nazi in it or something like that. And I go on the road and people are like, I'm going to read the pink Nazis. And that's another thing. It's like the Nazis were somewhat formed by gay men. And I didn't feel. Look at those uniforms, baby.

Starting point is 01:22:45 I mean, yeah. I mean, that's my whole thing. It's like, I'm not really interested in challenging him because I don't think he's interested in that, getting challenged by a person he's never met with the vocabulary that he probably doesn't respect. Get back to me once you've read the Wikipedia, at least.

Starting point is 01:23:03 Oh, I mean, that's like saying you gotta know everything, right? Like that is one, one event in the history of time to know all events that happen. And I take no umbrage with him saying that to me. I thought it was very funny, you know, but it is interesting to me. They're trying to what the Pentagon or the White House they're trying to levitate yeah i remember that story yeah you know okay you should jumped in johnny well i could have made we could have got another 10 minutes i'll go i think we've had guests about talk about that before uh the the i think it's just a famous like kind of weird thing that happened but i just they didn't do it obviously but even that seems to me left wingwingish. You know? You don't remember that event that

Starting point is 01:23:50 didn't actually happen. Good point actually. That's a great point. If they had Levitate... That's like when your girlfriend goes, do you know what almost happened to me? You're like, well nothing because that's a Steve Byrne joke. You know, nothing actually happened to you. So I don't know why you're yelling at me because I didn't remember this thing That didn't happen right and But I found it very very interesting dude. I found it I mean I could listen that guy talk for hours dude even if I don't necessarily and who am I oh

Starting point is 01:24:20 He's been talking about the stuff for 50 years, so you gotta respect that but again, it's you know I love He's been talking about this stuff for 50 years, so you gotta respect that. But again, it's, you know, I love, listen, as dumb as I am, and we know I'm dumb, okay? I get things right. And I've been talking about the hard wiring of mysticism. He's like, yeah, dude, they're totally doing that. And I'm like, damn, dude. You know what we gotta do?

Starting point is 01:24:42 Mark's gotta send you videos of you to the guest sometimes like no this is him. No, nobody will come on the show. It'll help the killer. Nobody will come on the show. We definitely wouldn't have gotten this guy. Yeah he would be like I'm gonna pass. We would have not even heard an email in response. Yeah I have no interest in talking to these peasants. Why come on that Joe Rogan one? That's pretty epic. He saw that he would okay He might he might be might be some kind of psychic Pardon me wants to go back and put my m-word bit at the top of my my Instagram bid Because that's almost got a million views I got a couple that have a motion do it as a reply and like put pen in or whatever You know, they were taught reply or whatever. Yeah, I'm not against it, dude I'm ready to burn everything to the ground advertise

Starting point is 01:25:29 But it was a great conversation. I agree. And I think people should focus more on the occult and less on politics. Less on getting lost in right-left stuff because that itself is sorcery. Because look what you get. You get the same thing. The same guys doing the same exact shit. Yeah Yeah, I do it's funny I I've seen this comment going around that if Kamala was president we'd all just be at brunch right now And I'm like what the fuck you're so dumb. They're so dumb everything that's happening right now would be happening But then you would add every trans fat feminists and BLM to it.

Starting point is 01:26:05 Yeah, except the TV would suck worse than it does. You think we already had a tact at hand or that's it? Yeah, it's the exact same schedule. She would have been right along with them. But she would even be worse because it would be so obvious that she's not having any say in any of this. Yes, they would be the State Department running all that shit. She would just be a figurehead. She'd be Vanna White.

Starting point is 01:26:31 She'd be also Biden, just like Biden. Basically just standing up there to just talk. Have you seen the video of people comparing how androids walk to how Biden walks? No, no, really? Oh yeah, dude. It is so how he stumbles up hills exactly like this Android did. Well, after he fell down from the bike,

Starting point is 01:26:51 I don't think they should have ever let real Biden out anymore. I don't think they did. There's a lot of people that don't think that was him because if you look in that bike video, his legs were like super stacked. He had young legs. He had young people legs.

Starting point is 01:27:03 Well, it's okay, that's what I was about to say. It has to be a clone because there's no way a robot can ride a bike yet. I don't know. I wouldn't say that. Whatever we're seeing right now is 20 to 30 year old technology. What they really have out there is like... That's scary if it can ride a bike. Like very human-like. Dude, that's what you're worried about? Them riding a bike?

Starting point is 01:27:22 That's like seeing a bear on a bike. Oh my my god bears can drive bikes now, I mean they got dogs running around metal dogs running around out there and you were just like It just explains to me what they can do. I'm like they think What you worried about the bicycle? Yeah 100 they can take over your car. They can fucking manipulate your phone They're putting out AI that we're getting flying flying drones they'll just bomb our house right now you can hear a guy on a bicycle right now this guy's worried about bikes you've seen that I read I read I mean Israel on Twitter what it looks like duty it's pretty good then you saw that fat-ass and guy that's always yelling at people Ben something Ben Urien or something like that He's always yelled have you know I'm talking about the guy who's always and he's rough

Starting point is 01:28:08 He's pulling guns on valets and shit the fuck he's getting screamed at by everybody Well, he brought up the the the missiles going and he goes we didn't think they had the long-range missiles We didn't think you had a you know somebody had translated what they were saying They're like why'd you provoke? I ran he's like we didn't know they had these long-range missiles I was like damn I mean what I mean not that I know it but supposedly Iran's using all their weak shit right now why I heard the opposite CNN is reporting that they're almost out no I heard they're blowing through that that's what it's funny yeah yeah I heard the other thing where they're using their weak shit So it so Israel can use all their defense and then later once Israel has very little defense

Starting point is 01:28:50 They're gonna hit him with the hard reporting that they only that's crazy 300 laughter Yeah, and I heard the whole opposite thing how they have they have backups and they're just giving all the weak stuff Which do you think is real? I wanted to text you get you guys this so I Which do you think is real? I wanted to text you guys this so I Think that what we're finding out is that Iran and Russia both were just paper tigers There's nothing there, dude. I don't think I think the Russian military is vaporware. I don't I think they're they're Conscripting North Koreans to fill out the numbers and they don't want to fight But you see seeing the Ukraine in these propaganda videos bringing these guys in and They're like there's a deaf guy. I did I watch these Ukraine propaganda

Starting point is 01:29:29 No, they are propaganda videos to be fair, but they're bringing that in this there's a deaf guy Russian guy And it's like yeah, they just threw me in the front lines. I can't hear anything I don't know where I was going they and we just ended up trapped They well they're showing videos right now of Russian nightclubs and it's just women dancing Yeah, dude, I think I think that the same is true with Iran. They were propping up Iran like they did the Soviet Union. I think they're doing that with China. Yeah, possibly.

Starting point is 01:29:53 Yeah, I mean what if it's all fake? What if they're all just these fake paper tigers? So it's the only one that... What if it's the United States in a weird way I could they all could be yeah, but I mean I think it's just American because we Before right I mean like you remember Obama we ran out of bombs. We didn't have any more bombs. Yes I do recall that yeah, I mean so but then they say we're the only one with this bunker, okay So this is the new theory that came out

Starting point is 01:30:25 that I ran somehow hacked Israel's Computers, okay and got all this data and some of the data they got is all the Jeffrey Epstein stuff They're trying to destroy it with Lahn's setup. That means destroy the whole country. There's a lot of Trump stuff in that and that is the big issue right now. That's why Elon said, I mean that's what he said just a couple weeks ago. Yeah and then he walked that back but you're like, there's always some truth in it dude.

Starting point is 01:31:01 There's always a little bit of truth in it. When he went off like that. It's so funny. You think he was like not, I mean is there any way you're scared for your life when you say something like that to the president? Who? Elon. Oh.

Starting point is 01:31:16 Like someone told him like hey you could. I think he's more powerful than Trump. Really? Like if you want to, if somebody wanted to kill someone you would say it's easier for them. They made the presidency a front man, the thing we like about Trump is he acts like he's calling shots yeah again it goes into that continuity of government Netanyahu paid him no mind dude like at all he was he would have been happy to have him

Starting point is 01:31:36 along saying that he was into it but it's but when those bombs hit do you think that's real where in Israel I think they let a few through. Yeah, just to keep people on their toes. Like, hey, this is real, you know, our man's got missiles too, we're fucked. I think Israel's fucked too, dude. I know you and Howie, the other band, I think we prop them up. I think they're not because we, they have all our tech. I was talking about this the other night on whatever this is with Austin Picard and Brad Binkley we were talking it's a premium content you can find on all of our premium content websites that is there a possibility guys that the powers that be the the bankers of the

Starting point is 01:32:29 masters of mankind could be over Israel and and because you see them do this all the time they they they kill off brands constantly when a brand is dead when dead with people in terms of like people are over it. They don't want you see them get kind of chucked to the side Is there a possibility that they just flatten Israel and just reflip it over? And if that's a no that's fine, I don't think just because of what it represents, you know, I think so many people are Stuck on the apocalyptic biblical thing. I want to get into that with the guest too. We couldn't get to that Russia's like, Russia's like, is just consumed with the apocalypse according to the notes.

Starting point is 01:33:13 I would have loved to gotten into that. But I couldn't steer it to that. I am like, let's go, can we go? He's like, that book's from 10 years ago. I go, okay. I guess that doesn't matter anymore 2015 is a long time ago. That's insane to think that yeah, is that crazy? 2015 is a long time ago my kids weren't even alive

Starting point is 01:33:37 Time is just flying at a gross rate Now you guys don't even have kids is it flying for you of course no But yeah, they say it gets worse when you have kids Oh, just do you remember was fast right when you're like, it's fat Did it just cause in Jade yesterday and I was just like Enjoy like carrying your baby It can be like my back is hurting but there will be a time when you realize you can't carry them anymore And you get a little sad. Oh, I thought you meant actually like pregnant. Oh, no, no, no like like holding your baby It's like those first five years and every year is great

Starting point is 01:34:08 But those first five years you never get that back and then once you're like once they're like 2021 it's just awkward to carry them around Jump on my back You know, I got my walker going You know, it's sad that even though I don't have kids I found it very sad that by the age of like 12, 13, you already spent 75% of the time. No, 90% of your time with your kids by the time they're 12 or 13 years old. Because after that they're doing their thing. Because they're hanging

Starting point is 01:34:36 out with their friends. That's crazy to think that by like 11 you pretty much got everything out of them. Yeah, you pretty much got all the joy. Yeah, and it's pretty much after that it's uh... Then it's just like now you're the annoying guy that won't let them get do whatever they want. If they call you. Oh, my dad's such a dick. Fuckin dick. I've always been really tried really hard to do be okay. Like I try to call my dad as much as possible call my mom. My mom is my grandmother's daughter and does not like to talk on the phone. So I literally, I guess- I'm right there with you, mom.

Starting point is 01:35:12 Three minute, oh, I'm like, let's get off the phone. I'm sure people get mad, but it's like, let's get off the phone. But my mom, she calls every day. I talk to her for three minutes at a time I try to get my dad's conversation for as long as I can But it's just literally me asking questions and he doesn't have a lot going on. Well, I saw that text he said Talking about

Starting point is 01:35:43 Talking about the babies, right? I don't even know, dude. I think it was like you must have visited some family in Arizona and he wanted to know if they were New York people there or something. Or he knew them, yeah. Or like to say hi to them, right? It was very... It sounded like ransom demands.

Starting point is 01:35:59 Yeah, I thought that was in all caps. Yeah enjoy your parents while you can. A lot of my friends my age, I'm in my 50s, they're all losing their parents. Don't have regrets. So hang out with your parents as much as I can. I think about a lot, you know, this is kind of deep, but I sometimes think that my relationship with my mother was hurt when I moved out so quickly. Now my brother won't leave, but I left at 18, because I just wanted to go try to live life.

Starting point is 01:36:30 And yeah, it worked out in a lot of ways. Didn't work out in some ways, but I think about it all the time. My cousin Jay just had a baby. She's asking if she should get out of LA. I'm like, LA is great when you're 20s and 30s. And some of your 40s maybe if you don't want to grow up. But after that, it's like, it's just unnecessary bullshit.

Starting point is 01:36:58 You know, it's just unnecessary bullshit. Do you find yourself too, as you drive around, just fostering a hate for humanity? As you like bump into people in Ralphs and just like, oh what are all these people doing here? You're taking your life in your own hands if you go to any like, like CVS or... Dude, you is where the wild things roam. You just get sick of it. We go to the Ralphs out here, or Albertson's,

Starting point is 01:37:26 but it's mostly Ralph's and Vaughn's. And you go in there, you're like, oh my God. First of all, it makes you feel great. You're like, I'm doing great. I will say, yeah, yeah, yeah, you do. This area though, it's so much chiller than South. Oh, in the South, yeah. It's like, I went out in the new,

Starting point is 01:37:46 because if people don't know, I've moved to near where Sam is here, and it's so quiet at night. There's no mumbling, there's scarcely a night where I live before on the west side where you don't hear a mumbling homeless person just stumbling with their cans down the,

Starting point is 01:38:02 like in the middle of the night, you'll hear just screaming. And your single lives on the west side where you were, west south side? Yeah, Palms down the, like in the middle of the night, you'll hear just screaming. And just think who lives on the west side where you were, west, south side. Yeah, Palms, yeah, like all over city. Yeah, it's like, those are very intense people. The amount of money it takes to live in that area, takes a certain kind of psychopath.

Starting point is 01:38:18 The Valley of LA tends to be more for families. Which it's interesting though, because like in Sino if you look there's a lot of like famous people that live there. Yeah. And I think they just want to chill. Like they get sick of it too. Yeah the valley is a hidden secret. When you live in Hollywood everybody makes fun of the valley and then you move the valley you're like oh that was a Psy-Op to get people not to move to the valley. It's 100 degrees every day. It's awful. It's like only losers live in it.

Starting point is 01:38:47 You get here, you're like, this is great. The only thing that's going to drive you crazy, Johnny, is everything closes in the valley. Well, my Ralph's is open till 1. I figured out, so I'm good. Yeah. So you got to get your shit early. Taco Bell's the only thing open late night out here. I went there last night.

Starting point is 01:39:03 You go anywhere after 10? What do you mean? But you just found out- Johnny thing open late night. Oh, I went there you go anywhere after 10 What do you mean? But you just try a late night roller phones is open to a while. I've never been up I was there at 12 45 a.m. Last night Yeah, Chinese late night. I know yeah, he's one of the ones where I could tell there's nobody there She's your girlfriend like that or hate that she's asleep. So she doesn't have any opinion Nobody there. Does your girlfriend like that or hate that? She's asleep, so she doesn't have any opinion. No, she doesn't.

Starting point is 01:39:26 She wishes I was, but I just... They just want you in bed. Go in bed. They know where you are. Yeah. But I'm mostly just working at night. I'm more productive at night. I just feel like ass in the mornings.

Starting point is 01:39:38 I don't know. It's probably because I don't sleep. Yeah. What time do you get up? 11? Yeah, about that. Yeah. Yeah. If I sleep later, I feel better. I'm not an eight o'clocker. I get up? 11? Yeah, about that. Yeah. Yeah I'm not an 8 o'clock or I get up at 8 in the morning. 8?

Starting point is 01:39:49 No, but before before you had kids and before I had kids 11. Yeah, you're up late too. Yeah, because I was Doing comedy and drugs. But you still stay up late, don't you? How much sleep are you in? He's in bed by like 10, 11. Two nights ago. I had a late one. I just text me like 32 3 a.m. So sometimes but most of the time I'm I'm going down at Midnight which isn't late is late to some but not for me and I'm getting up at 738 I'll call them like at 11 10 Won't pick up and then he'll call morning. I just need I'll just assume he's sleeping. People need to understand something, like when you do as many shows as I do, I get to a point where I don't want to hear my voice and I don't want to talk.

Starting point is 01:40:33 I understand. It's not that I don't want, that I'm mad or I just don't want to talk. I'm over talking. I've been talking too long, too much, too often and I just want to shut up. I totally get that dude. When I have to edit, well after we do a broken sim and then I edit a broken too long, too much, too often, and I just want to shut up. I totally get that, dude. When I have to edit, well, after we do a broken sim and then I edit a broken sim for, I'm just like, oh, fuck myself.

Starting point is 01:40:51 I don't want to hear any more of that. Yeah, I don't want to hear. I don't want to hear anything. So unless it's like emergencies or like my mom, I'm not answering the phone. Have you ever edited any of your stuff? Do you know how to edit a little bit? I know very little editing.

Starting point is 01:41:04 I was telling you, like, you start to like, you hate your voice and then you get used to your voice because you edit it. But I could see you just like- Are you doing a lot of editing on the number one podcast on planet earth? What's the name of it? Ashtu marks the spot. You should just call it the greatest podcast on planet earth. I think I should have just gone with that.

Starting point is 01:41:20 Oakley presents the greatest podcast on planet earth. Yeah, sponsored by Oakley. Believe it or not, episode three is sponsored by Oakley. We're giving away Oakley. I hear it's doing great. It's doing amazing. It got boops. Do you think it's possible. We believe or not episode 3 sponsored by Oakley. We're doing great doing amazing I got do you think it's cuz of you or because Yeah, well, that's why your mom's house crushes it. Oh, it's pretty much like that because she's just so good Have you watched any of the Tom's who grows little the rest of them? Yeah, I know Now he said we're back.

Starting point is 01:41:45 The shows? So I don't know if they only put out so many episodes and then they released some more episodes. He released all six of them now. Okay, so all six are out. You should go check out the last three that you missed. They're really good. There's this one.

Starting point is 01:41:55 Is it funny? It's amazing. I mean, if you're in a dark shit, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I want to see it. Everyone's like, oh oh you do you talk no, dude It's great because if you understand Tom and you understand Dark comedy and it's not for everybody, but that's what that's why it's necessary

Starting point is 01:42:16 It's for the people who it's for you know, the view isn't for everybody the view is for a very specific audience So it's like just because it's not for me doesn't mean the only people that fuck that up our ESPN The view isn't for everybody. The view is for a very specific audience. So it's like, just because it's not for me doesn't mean, the only people that fuck that up are ESPN. They're running around going, why is it, why can't we get ratings? I don't know, you got three chicks in the bisexual talking about the NFL draft, nobody gives a shit. Nobody wants to hear it.

Starting point is 01:42:39 And when they keep buying rights to shit, nobody wants women's softballs. I heard they had some new deal with that, like who the fuck's watching women's softball other than I don't know nobody's watching it that's the whole thing you keep shoving this stuff on the people that you still want to watch and of course they have 800 different channels so they have to fill it up with something this decline has been going on for a long time now I remember when they we were like they fired Harold Harold Reynolds, and we were like oh shit And that was that's been a while now, and that's when it really started was when he got that's why YouTube shows blow up Well because they're they're what you want to watch well I mean like what he said I thought ESPN lost it when they gave up poker when poker poker go got them

Starting point is 01:43:21 I love I can't watch unless it's on YouTube or you've paid for poker go and it's such a man thing We're just watching poker Played none of that no more. Well, the best stuff is this this these NBA players to start podcasts They did watching the old black play people talk is the best. Oh, I could watch them all day talk I don't want to watch like some chick who's just yelling statistics at me Acting like she and I'm not saying she doesn't know sports But it's like you want to hear from you're taking the jobs for the people who played the game And I want to hear people talk like people talk. Yeah, I mean

Starting point is 01:43:57 You know, they're talking about Pat McAvee might be on the way out and I'm like you're an idiot If you let that guy for Rich Eisen to I like Rich Eisen and that shows great but those are two different brands those aren't those don't overlap they should be there's yeah it's we live in an age of going viral and ESPN is so afraid of that yeah they really are I mean they killed Star Wars dude I saw Mark Hamill is kind of quitting being he said you know kind of stepping back from Luke Skywalker you know so he's stepping back from acting I mean they killed him so well yeah yeah I guess so that's funny he does a few voices and stuff but yeah mostly but he I mean they what they did to that

Starting point is 01:44:39 character with kind of glee you know it's It's just a... Well, that's the whole point of what our guests talked about. The occult. You know, and like, there is something about a certain age liberal that has no ability to rewire their brain to go, Okay, I think I think conservatives are nuts, but this this progressive left is equally as nuts Which is my whole stance on everything like I would rather live in a conservative world with a liberal not progressive rebellion that live in a super progressive world where Nobody's having for everything is is there's so many rules to life and it's just none of its natural. Men dresses women should be using women's bathroom. Nobody wants that. No.

Starting point is 01:45:32 Nobody wants that. You know? I mean like you see Simone Biles got her dick kicked in. She's a gymnast. Like what do we even? And on top of that, everyone wants to call her the goat. You're not to go when you take off from the Olympics for mental health. Sorry You're just not that's that's the door would never go Jordan quit basketball because you got busted gambling Yeah, I mean what was it Jordan had like stomach flu and you went to go play and won that game that food poison Yeah, that's that's goat mentality. Yeah 100%. I just watched Last Dance again while I was in Vegas because it was just on you know and it was ugh. It was so good. I forgot how good that was. Remember how much we needed that during the pandemic? Oh yeah that's why that blew off.

Starting point is 01:46:17 There's nothing else to watch. No sports. There were no sports and you just got to relive his whole career which is the best. And then just broke Scottie Pippen. Just broke him. He got jealous. He got big. He got jealous because it just And you just got to relive his whole career, which is the best and then just broke Scottie Pippen just broke Yeah, he got jealous. He got big. He got jealous because it just basically played him Showing him and he probably did deserve more money, but when you when you sit out cuz you don't get the shot. I Mean, come on dude. Anyways, go to Sam Tripoli calm Brohemia Grove is this week. I'm very excited should be interesting. Have they named where it's going to be? Yeah, it's the joke joint. It's called, I think it's where the...

Starting point is 01:46:50 Comedy Club. The Comedy Club where I did the first Brohemian Grove, which wasn't even Brohemian Grove, it was just me doing a weekend there and then it just turned into an event. They ran with it and... I'm glad they got a... They moved it to another... They moved it to a theater and the theater freaked out. So now they moved it to the new joke joint place, which is a much bigger room.

Starting point is 01:47:16 So we'll see how it goes. Cool. We'll see how it goes. I wish I could go. I was going to go, but I just, we are moving. The movers are coming Friday. Yeah, I get it, dude. And I also would love to do it because we're almost at 900 episodes

Starting point is 01:47:28 We're like two episodes away, which means we're in the countdown to the big 1,000 episode that will be a big event and real quick. I forgot saying I'm gonna put the new date on my website it's not there yet, but my date at the mothership has changed. Unfortunately, if you bought tickets or you bought all your hotels and all that, my deepest apology, they needed to move me and I'm now in October. So I will get you that exact date. I will put it on my website just so you know the days to be there. I would love if you can come out and hang out and have a good time and we could all see each other and just totally drop a hammer on that place. It would be really great. So, Broheme and Grove is this week. Then I'm home for a couple weeks. San Diego at the

Starting point is 01:48:16 American Comedy Company and going down the... Then Boston's coming, Broad Brook, Kansas City, more dates to come. I'm always looking for new places to go and all that stuff. Sam Tripley's been on fire, nothing but incredible, incredible premium content. I took a week and a half off because life was just super duper busy, but the stuff on there is pure Fire I'll go down a little bit go down Patreon cash days patreon. How's it going? Let's see what we're up to drumroll, please

Starting point is 01:48:56 Yeah, we're up I think right Johnny Why is this shit in was that Italian I buy my computer. computer. I don't know why it does that. That's so hilarious. I'm not even Italian. Iscriviti gratis. That's so funny. So go check it out. Johnny, how's he been doing? Yeah, we're back on track over there. Yeah, we had a... That thumbnail, Johnny. Johnny's great at thumbnails. I fucking love those thumbnails. I accidentally, did you see on Twitter, actually, where I posted? I was just kind of mindlessly making a thumbnail and I just grabbed a still of Sam just laughing hysterically. I was like, oh that was good Yeah, I realized like wait a minute. We're talking about the end of the world here. Potentially. I just got Sam

Starting point is 01:49:34 I almost put it out cuz I thought it was funny. I would laugh my ass off patreon.com slash cash daddies and then go down Chaos twins is in production episode number issue number two. Let's get it. Let's get it buy it. I sign it It's gonna be great go back Go to cast twins calm and then all of our affiliates and people are buying them the live longer formula is fucking great then all of our affiliates and people are buying them. The Live Longer formula is fucking great. Tim Foll had t-shirts, what we got? Oh, do you see the picture of me and Eddie

Starting point is 01:50:09 that we put out from? Yes, with the Sounds Gay I'm In shirt on. What? With the Sounds Gay I'm In shirt on. No, two, both people, how many shirts of those have sold? I don't know, like two? Two? One came to Cleveland, the other guy came to Pittsburgh. Wait up, wait up, wait up. You have a t-shirt. It's not a typical

Starting point is 01:50:29 BS merch calm and you can get a teacher that says what sounds gay I'm in Sam's uh, yeah, he found and are these guys gay wearing this t-shirt No, what you got straight guys wearing his t-shirt that yeah, cuz it's hilarious From the teacher you saw it like the beach or something right? I saw it when I was doing skank fest last year That's it right there. Very nice. Very nice. You look very Trumpy. Thank you very much So we got that and we also have some new shirts come I'm trying to make the fucking Did you ever make that? Yeah, I sent it to my shirt guy and he didn't do I want I wonder if you guys Yeah, I had a great artist make it for me. I don't have his name. He's tattoo artist

Starting point is 01:51:09 I will give him his props once I once I figure out how exactly I want done But he did great job with it. We're gonna put that shirt out by going silver live long formula I mean that guy's doing great work over there The mineral king my good friend Pat Melchich get into that. I'll cure in hydrogen brown gas Harley-rey they may become a sponsor sponsor. We're talking to them right now And then of course every you know, I love chemical free body. I take it every day Joel Staley Get in shape emf rocks. I gotta talk to them, I need to get some more bags. Prometheus, a lot of comics are starting to use Prometheus.

Starting point is 01:51:50 It's your website. Stop putting your premium content on a website that can eventually ban you. Put it on your own website. That's what I do with SamTrippi.com. And Xavier Guerrero crushed it today with his one or two questions Brain Supreme is great new social all that stuff man constantly people on the telegram and then all my podcasts are available So with that new special and then the specials killing it dude Dude potty mouth is great, dude

Starting point is 01:52:21 Potty mouth is turned out way better than I thought it was going to go. And then Black Crack Robots as well. It was actually called Black Karate Robots, but he called it Black Crack Robots and I'm just running with it. And then all my, there's only two of those there? There's supposed to be three of them there. I think the internet just took a shit. Okay, that's fine. Anything else guys?

Starting point is 01:52:41 Hit that like button and go check out the number one podcast in the world that actually marks the spot on and Johnny I'm back on Twitter everybody. Yeah, go check me out at Johnny Woodard and go to the you know The the internets down again or your computer is F'd. I think it's more your computer. I agree. Yeah, what's that? The internet's good. Yeah, okay Go to our YouTube dot-com slash Okay, go to youtube.com Tenfall hat YouTube and you can now get all the episodes are on there

Starting point is 01:53:16 We got five episodes in and we already have like 300 subscribers. So grab it grab it now We're playing the YouTube game. Just know that if you go there You're gonna get the YouTube version of the show and I'm totally fine But that's where everybody wants to go for for their videos We got to play the game. We're doing Xavier's doing a great job actually doing something. He's uh, He's doing he's editing it so it's YouTube friendly. So enjoy that there But again, you can get YouTube anywhere you can get Twitter I mean you can get Tim Fowl on YouTube now rumble, Rumble, Twitter, SamTripley.com, you name it. It's on their BitChute. We put it everywhere. Substack.

Starting point is 01:53:52 X. Odyssey X, you name it. I'm still calling the Twitter. Is that boomer shit? No, I do too. Okay. All right. Enjoy these highlights. Here's a clip from the latest Broken Sim. So Rfk we're in the news now just completely fired everybody on the uh on the vaccine advisory committee just Everybody's gone. He's gonna bring in all new people. I think he's trying. I just think it's like so somebody hit me up today and they go

Starting point is 01:54:21 They go Why why is this happening? Why is all this stuff? Oh, no, no, no, somebody hit me up a comic. He asked, why is Cash Patel flipping? Is that his name, Cash Patel? By the way, did you see that his name is really, when you put together Cash App?

Starting point is 01:54:41 So, so, he hit me up and I go, yeah dude. And I did the bill. I texted the bill Hicks joke that they showed him a angle of the JFK assassination that no one's ever seen before. And I put bill Hicks and he laughed and I go, dude, I go, dude, he, he didn't realize he was in a, he was in a shark tank and he's a dolphin. That's it. Yeah. No, that's totally it. Here's the here's the clip if we want.

Starting point is 01:55:10 Well, he went on Rogan and then just got he was just weird about the narrative has always been that there's video. But what about the video from the island? Again, we're going to give you everything we can and people have to remember, we're not going to re-victimize women. That's where he lost it. Nobody gives a fuck because they all watch the videos. Not doing it. You want to hate me for it? Fine. Again, logical play out. If there was a video of some guy or gal committing felonies on an island and I'm in charge, don't you think you'd see it? Jared Sienaar Well, you just said you wouldn't show it though.

Starting point is 01:55:50 Pete Slauson Yeah. Jared Sienaar And now you're saying it doesn't exist. And we've already had – who was it, Pam Bondi or somebody said there's – Pete Slauson Yeah, saying there's 10,000 videos. Like – Jared Sienaar Hours of it. Hours of hours of it. Pete Slauson Dude, this is it, dude.

Starting point is 01:56:01 They got something on this guy or his wife's Israeli snatch is just vice grip Do you think it's any chances because we haven't talked since Elon and Trump fell out. Do you think it's any chance? It's what Elon said that his boss cash Patel's boss is in these is in this shit, dude. He's on the videos I mean any chance of that? Well, I mean to Whitney Web's been saying that forever I mean any chance of that? Well, I mean to Whitney webs and saying that forever Whitney webs been talking about how Ray Cohen is like the master of that Roy Cohn Yeah, Roy Cohn and then you get into the Rothschilds bailing him out and they I think the 80s Yes, he's in the 90s. Yeah so it's like dude, but the problem is is like and

Starting point is 01:56:41 Again, we talked about before on is like, and again, we talked about before on Tim Fowl, like his response was not Trump response, which makes me think there's something there. Yeah, whenever Trump has been attacked in the past, he always matches it or exceeds it with his response. And when the Elon thing, he just kind of mellowed. The response is if they had something, it would have came out, the other side would put it out,

Starting point is 01:57:05 unless they're on tape too. Like how deep does it go? Yeah, I think it goes to every single spot of power. I mean, Karen Bass is controlled up. Well, the most interesting outcome of this is if it's blackmail material that Masad doesn't want to burn. Do you know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:57:23 Like blackmail is only useful when it's hit. The FBI, the CIA don't want those tapes out because they got M. Masad because they can use it for leverage. Exactly. And once it's out there, it's over. You know, there's no leverage anymore. You lose all of it. So I did. Yeah. It's just so listen to him. He gets so weird. Right. And this is a guy who was on the record like I'm putting it all out day one It's going out. I don't care, but you can't say that you have it No, we're giving you everything we have and is there video from the island? Not of what you want. So this narrative might not be accurate. We know that he's got doing this

Starting point is 01:58:02 Exactly. Have you guys reviewed everything that you have? Almost. Like we're, that's, I mean, yes, we have and now we're figuring out how to put it out. But why is there footage? What's this O'Keeffe put this music on? If there was ever, if there was footage of anyone doing anything else, we would have opened a case. There are tens of thousands of videos.

Starting point is 01:58:23 Yeah, and it's all with little kids. If anyone doing anything else, we would have opened a case. There are tens of thousands of videos. Yeah. And it's all with little kids. If there was a video of some guy or gal. Yeah, I mean, they just annihilated him. He's not going to last. They're going to throw him out. That is a burnt, that's a burnt brand.

Starting point is 01:58:42 And he's going to be gone. And Dan Boggino is going to be the same thing. Someone said he looks like fucking RoboCop Yeah, uh Let's see what we got here. Okay. So yeah, RFK clean this clean the slate He fired all 17 members of the US Centers for Disease Controls and Prevention's panel That's the CDC's panel of vaccine experts and is in the process of replacing them. So maybe a positive sign that RFK's getting it back on the tracks. I don't know. We'll see. So yeah, we, did we, hold on. No, that's, did we, we played the Tim Dillon. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:59:19 Yeah, we played that. The Peter Thiel thing. Hold on. Yeah. We've put, we've, oh no, we haven't played where he said that they've asked him to go. Yes. If you have- Yes, this is it right here. Yeah, yeah. This is what I wanted to play. This is scorching the earth. It's also kind of like creepy almost.

Starting point is 01:59:37 Not one reservation about what's going on over there. I'm not saying, I'm not saying you have to feel one way or another way, but if you don't have any reservations, if you have no reservations about what's happening with all these kids getting killed, I don't know, I can't trust you. If you don't have any reservations about Palantir taking everyone's information, I don't know. I can't. I don't know if I can trust you. I don't. I think they're buying people left and right. This is my guess They try to buy me my pussy costs a lot of money I Get invited to these dinners. I the way he says this is really interesting

Starting point is 02:00:18 But he take I think he's thinking about whether he should say this cuz he's like, ah, you try to buy a lot of people I think you know, and then he takes a drink and he's thinking about whether he should say this because he's like, oh, they try to buy a lot of people, I think, you know, and then he takes a drink and he's like, Reveals. I've been invited to Teal's house multiple times for dinner. I don't go. If you'd like to hear the rest of this episode, subscribe to Broken Simulation in your podcasting app or check us out at youtube. Aaron, open your mind. Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. That's some interdimensional shit. Wake up Aaron.

Starting point is 02:01:01 This is only the beginning. You just blew my mind.

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