Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - Tin Foil Hat #52: Psychedelic Therapy with Zach Leary

Episode Date: November 21, 2017

Thank you for tuning in for another episode of Tin Foil Hat with Sam Tripoli. This episode, Ryan and Sam welcome socio-cultural theorist Zack Leary to the show. On this episode we discuss... 1) Zach's own podcast "It's All Happening" 2) Ram Dass(Richard Alpert) 3) Timothy Leary 4) The Maharajji Neem Karoli Baba 5) Consciousness Exploration & Psychedelics 6)The Bard Terrence McKenna 7) M.A.P.S 8) Phase 3 Trails for MDMA-assisted Psychotherapy 9) The Zendo Project 10) Owsley Stanley & The CIA connection... Check out all of Zach's projects at Zendoproject.org Maps.org Zachleary.com

Welcome back to another episode of Tinfoil Hat. Come with me into the waters of conspiracy with Sam Tripoli. Sam Tripoli. Sam Tripoli. Sam Tripoli. Mr. Sam Tripoli. With my friend Ryan Davis. Ah, hi Ryan. We're the first gay couple of, the Happy Dog. With my friend Ryan Davis. Hi, Ryan. We're the first gay couple of conspiracy theories. I think it's beautiful, man.

Say this. It's some mystical deep dark realm crazy shit. Wake up Aaron. That's why you're gonna be doing. Hey man, man. Hey man, man. What's truth there, dog! What the fuck are you guys even talking about? Are you ready to get your mind-blown? Oh, what?

Revolution will be podcasted. Yeah. And welcome to another episode of Tinfoilhead, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in. We're super excited for today's show. I want to say something. You guys, I'm so thankful for all your input on our shows, whether it's positive love or it's constructive criticism.

I'm very thankful for it. Your passion fuels the show. Joining me as always is my good friend Ryan Davis. Hey Sam, how you doing man? Killing it, people like me, I think so far. I think it's going really well. So guys, go, if you guys could go to all comedy teas. Go check out the new shirt that I really love and that is the, the, the, the revolution, the revolution, the revolution, the revolution, the revolution, the revolution, the revolution, the revolution, the revolution, the revolution, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, thu, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, teas, go check out the new shirt that I really love and that is the the revolution will be podcasted and it's basically our podcast

being played and then someone turns to the werewolf it's most likely because I'm Armenian that's who it is an angry furry person so check that out it's a good way sports show and if you're also looking for another way support show please check us out on Patreon. That would mean a lot to us. Go to it, go to Patreon. dot com, backslash, Tinfoil Hat. All right, guys. Oh, and my live show. I'm very excited. My tour is coming together. My evil plan. My tour is coming together. Going to the Lone starstar star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star star to to to to to to to to to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the too. too. too. to to to to ogether. Going to the Lone Star State, huh? Yes, I'm very excited. I am doing, if I can find a flyer real quick. Let me just find it real quick.

We are doing the Social Justice Warriors tour of the World Tour of Texas. We're basically going to be in, we're going to be in San Antonio December 14th then we'll be in San Marcos December 15th December 16th we will be at the we'll be at the fuck I can't remember the name of it where is it no it anyways find it I'm tweeeting it you'll find it you'll find it just fine go to my. If you know I'm coming, come to the shows. Go to the shows. All right, enough of the business. I haven't butchered it that bad before. Why don't you introduce our guest? Yeah, today's guest is someone that I've wanted on our show ever since we started the podcast. Host of his own two podcasts. to the two to to to to to th. th. th. th. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. thus. thus. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. thus. thus. thus. tho tho the business business business. the business. the business business business business. the business business business business business business business. the business business business. the business business. tho. the business business. the business. the business. the business. the business. the business. the business. the business. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thus. thus. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. tho. thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. th. th. th. th. two podcasts may introduce to you Zach Lear everyone. Hey guys, thanks for having me. Welcome to the show. Thank you for coming.

Thank you for driving through the teeth of traffic. Come get spiritual with us. Yeah man you know being I'm an LA native and it's still like you think you know better you know you leave from Santa Monica and you'd think you'd make it in time. Now you're a very spiritual man I've been th. I I I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi. thi. th. th. Welcome th. Welcome to to to to to to to to to th. Welcome th. Welcome th. Welcome th. Welcome th. Welcome th. Thank th. Thank th. Thank th. Thank th. Thank th. Thank th. Thank th. Thank th. Thank th. Thank th. Thank th. Thank th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the the. to. to. the the. the. to. the. the. the. the. the. make it in time. Now you're a very spiritual man. I've been doing a lot of research. But driving, it's all out, man. It's all out. You know, and Duncan said this thing to me on my podcast once.

It's like, yeah, you know, you'd think you're in this car, right? And it's cool if I'm late, right? You have nowhere to really go and you're just kind of hanging out in the moment. You think you could be present and just there and just enjoying the moment listening to whatever is going on, you know, maybe connecting with your thoughts doing an inventory or something. But no, not the case. No, it's crazy. It's crazy. You get crazy. I know what I'm going through, it's going to be fine. And then you get cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut th. And th. thi. And th. th. th. to th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. to th. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to that that that that thi four times and you just become a lunatic.

Yeah. It's family or traffic will show you how really centered you are. And I don't care how Zen you are, you will do some politically incorrect shit in your car. It is the yoga of Los Angeles for sure. It is the yoga of Los Angeles. So I mean like, your story is amazing. You know I was reading up on it that you kind of have gone through a little craziness in your life. So why don't you kind of take us through that and then we'll get into your podcast because you have some really amazing podcast. So let our listeners, in case they don't know your story, get a little background on you. Gosh, well, specifically kind of the insanity of addiction and yeah yeah that kind of stuff we both have dealt with that in our life we both deal with

that in a daily basis yeah you know when I was in my late teens into early 20s you know I was very much and this is kind of a very cliche sort of story of being related to somebody who's larger than life and it's kind of famous as when they're around. In case they'll know your father. Yeah, Timothy Leary. And when I was a young adult and he was alive, his orb, his aura was, you know, his life force was a really, really, really big.

And at the time, at that moment, you know, you don't know any different. So you just experience that. They're just your dad. At some point they're your dad. Yeah, and you don't know that there's anything different on the other side. And it's just your dad, and it's just this life that's happening,

and there's a lot of fun that's going around and you know I just was sort of getting to the age to where I was sort of sort of appropriately able to enjoy the fun. Right, right. You know what I mean? Before I was a little young to really, so I was kind of just getting into it and really enjoying it. And then he died, you know, and I was 22 and it wasn't that his death was incredibly sad or anything. I mean he really made his death into sort a to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the to the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th. their, the thi, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the the the the the the the they.e, their, their, some, some, some, some, some, some, so that his death was incredibly sad or anything. I mean, he really made his death into sort of a piece of performance art in a way and really getting people to understand the whole death and dying process.

So it wasn't that. It just, I was left with no identity of my own. I just look. That's got to be really hard. Is there a pressure? And your parents, either one of them is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is th, is thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi.. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi.? Is there a pressure when your your parents, either one of them, is this incredibly huge icon? And then, you know, if you want to go on your own path, can you do that? Or is there this pressure to get in the family business, like, you know, in a weird way, like a Frank Sinatra Jr. or whatever that long where it's like, you've got to do that because the doors open easier maybe, or that's or that's or that's or that's that's, or that's, or that's, or that's, or that's, or that's, or that's, or that's, or that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi. And, thi.e. thi. thi. thii. thiii. thi. thii. thii. thi. thi. thi. their, is got to do that because the doors open easier maybe or that's all you know.

Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. I mean, at the time, it's definitely one that I was not aware of if it was even being asked of me. You know, I'm just, I mean, I just think the overall expectation was just to do something great, whatever it was. But when you're sort of the overall the overall the overall the overall the overall the overall the overall, the overall, th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. th. I, th. th. th. thin, thin, th. thi. thin. thin. thin. thin. thin. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thin, th. th. thin, th. I'm, thin, thin, thin, th. I's, th. I's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, th. It's, the. that's, the. that's, that's, that's, th. toe. that's, th. th. that around, especially in your young adulthood, when you're sort of around in that bubble, everything is taken care of for you. You know, you don't really have to work, you don't really have to meet girls, they're just kind of there, you know, you don't really have to pay bills, you know, it's just

sort of, everything's there. And your family business. And your family business, and some, thi, you thi, you, you, you, you, you, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thing, thing, thing, thing, thing, everything is, everything is, thi, thi, everything is thing is thi, everything is thi, everything is thi, everything is thi, everything is thi, everything is thi, everything is, everything is, everything is, everything is, everything is, everything is, everything is, everything is, everything is, everything is, everything is, everything is, everything is, and, and, thi, thi, everything is, thi, everything is, and, and your family business, and your family business, and your family business, you thi, you thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, you're thi. And, thi. And, you're thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi, thi going to furniture, you know, roofing, you know, yeah, you know, and a family like this, I'm still not even quite sure what that is, but figuring it out. But anyway, yeah, so I just, you know, I spent a lot of years sort of, you know, just struggling kind of at the grips of self-identity and just trying to find out what worked for me. It must have been interesting because your father, and I don't want to get too much, because I want to learn more about all the amazing stuff you're doing right now, but I was just kind of thinking, man,

it's like, you know, you have your parents and they're always telling you don't do this, don't do that, know and it's and you know and she did her best and there was things that she was over protective on but it must have so interesting you have a parent like tripping on acid all the time and be like hey you know don't talk to the dancing bear over there or something like that. Did you grow up traditionally Armenian? No which was very interesting because my mother that generation was about simulation and it was more about fitting in than this new, this thing that's been going on since I'd like to say the 80s and 90s, which is, you know, find

your own niche and all that. And I see, I see good points on both sides of those arguments, you know, where it's like, yeah, you should have a little bit of your history too, but I also feel like we also need to be like a melting, I, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th....... th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. And, thi, thi, thi, I also feel like we also need to be like a melting pot, you know, a real like where we all come together, you know, so. Well, I mean, you know, the great, I mean, I don't know if it's actually a great irony, but sort of a really important footnote about the growing up with Timothy Leary story is that he was not, especially in my teenage years years years years years years years years years years years, he was not, he was not, he was years, he was not just blindly permissive.

Right. You know, I don't want to ever portray that. You know, it was not just like, oh man, just, you know, take as much acid as you want and you know, and freak the fuck out and just, and go for it. You know, he was a real academic, you know, I mean, you know, he taught at Harvard. And I mean, you know, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, he, you, you, he, he, he, he, you, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, to, to, to to to, to, to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, th............... th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, th. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, it got his PhD at Berkeley and, you know, it was extremely well educated. And his and his work ethic was just, you know, every single day, you know, about like nine in the morning to nine at night at his computer working, you know, constantly, very, very disciplined. So it was not really a free-for-all.

And I was, I was a deadhead, you know, following the dead around the country and I was getting a little too. When did you start doing that? At what age? At 14, you started following the dead around? Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, no, it is. Did you ever see the dead Sam? I did see the debt one time. One time. Like I got, I got to see this before. It's so funny because like when I got in like the 90s, all these bands had been touring, they started all their farewell tours. Little did you know there'd be like 13 farewells tour. Like this is a farewell from our farewell tour. You know, so I got to see the Rolling Stones back when I thought it was over.

And I got to go see to dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead dead go see the dead too. You know? And yeah, I mean, I used to love to do Acid and go to concerts. That was great, wasn't it? I bet one of the best experience I ever had, well, I was high on Acid at Lala Paloza. And you know, just like, I was watching bands that just broke, like Pearl Jamp, sound garden, you know, ice cube was on the thi, you didn't realize how great that was until you get much older and you really appreciate it. Those early Lollapaloozes were just epic, man. Epic? Yeah.

Epic. Allison chains, Primus and rage against the machine. I mean, they're just, it was so good. So, yeah, an amazing thing to be going through too, to be following the dead because there was a culture with that. And it's like not just in the stadium, but like in the parking lot people don't realize like there was a whole like community. Shakedown Street. Yeah, right. It was a traveling city, you know, it was, you know, I mean I primarily went for the music. I mean I'm still a huge grateful dead friend and I really love the music, but the community, you know, when you're a teenager, I mean, that was just as much of a part of it. A lot of bartering, a lot of sharing, a lot of... And you just see you're this traveling band of gypsies just going together to the next place, then to the next place, into the next place, and it's just an incredible sense. Now, did you go into the concert? Yeah, no, I was. I was, I was, I was, me. that, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. And, you're just just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you, you you you you you you you you you, you you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're. And, you're. And, you're. And, you're. And, you're. And, you. And, you. And, you. And, you. And, you. And, you. And, you're, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're the. And, you're th. And, you know, th. And, th. And, you know, th. And, you're th. And, you're th. And, you're th. And, you're the. And, you're th. And, you're the. And, you about the music. We waited in line to get, you know, most shows were general admissions,

so you could go up close, not all of them, but you know, that was a really important part of it for us, was getting as close as possible. Yeah, it was fun. Was there anything the crate? Did you see anything you were like, oh, we'll always stand out? Was there one time we went or anything like that? Or was it just every time there was just something that really made you go, this is what I came

for? Well, I mean, yeah, it's hard to sort of look, I mean, over, I went to about a hundred shows, I think, and looking back on it, it's, you know, they're definitely a couple I think that stand out as just, I mean I remember Halloween 1991 in Oakland where it was just tripping really really really hard and Bill Graham and just died and then Ken Keesey came onto the stage and kind of did this little rap in the middle of Darkstar one of the most famous songs and and it was just this complete you know merging and morphing and sort of just disorientation of psychedelicness, merged into the crowd, merged into the guitar, and just, yeah, it was

truly a multiverse experience. 91 was such an interesting, you think about that. To me, that's, you know, it wasn't my prime. I, you know, I was blessed that. I went on college, gone to comedy, and I was blessed to basically to basically to basically, to basically, to basically, to basically, to basically, to basically, to basically, to basically, the the the the the the the the the the the thi, just just just just just just just just just just just just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, and, and the the the th.................................... th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. the the th........... th...... th. the the th......... the the th. the college, gone to comedy, and I was blessed to basically live the life of a college student well into my 30s. I lived a fun, I still living, I've lived like I'd passed away. But, you know, I lived a really fun life, but there was something about those early 90s, the late 80s, early 90s where I would argue with anybody that, that's that's that's that I was th, I was th, I would th, I would th, I would th, I would th, I would th, I would th, I would th, I would th, I would I would argue with anybody that that may have been one of the greatest times for music ever you had the 60s at 70s but this was like the

the explosion of like rap and hip-hop grunge metal was still going there was all this like incredible creativity that was going on I think it's the last golden age of music without a doubt I mean sure today of course you know there's lots of good exceptions of some great bands th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi-n-n' the th the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their th th of thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the thi I think it's the last golden age of music. Without a doubt. I mean sure today of course you know there's lots of good exceptions of some great bands around but I mean still my favorite bands who are kind of current is or today. They like tool a radio head. I mean they got started back then. Oh yeah I saw a tiny rock club in the early 90s in Vegas. And it was just a total explosion of just, you know where where. their. their. tool. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. today. today. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I today. I today. I. I today. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I today. I today. I tod. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I the. I'm. I'm. I t. I t. t. t. t. t. t. t. tod t. tod. t. tod. tod. t. today. today. tod. there. there. the. the early 90s in Vegas. And it was just a total explosion of just, you know, where can this medium go, you know, but then it found a new place to go. What I think right now is, and then I want to get into your podcast because your podcasts are amazing. I think there's a lot, you know, Spotify for whether you like it or you don't like it, it does introduce you some really cool bands through its algorithms. It's like, it, the the the their, their, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, th, th, th, th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th is th is th is thin, thin, thin, the, the. the. the. the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. the. the. the. through its algorithms. It's like, oh you like the beats this fast, you like, and it lets you know like, oh man, I've discovered some amazing bands I would never have ever discovered before. I think it's just,

it's there's just so much now that's really hard for anybody to stand out and those who really do stand out. They don't excite me. And maybe that's just me and I'm much older so maybe their their. I was watching the M.A.S. last night, I was like, I don't know any of these bands and I don't feel bad about it either. Yeah, yeah, that's good getting old. I'm one person. I live my life, man. Very little regrets. I think it's impossible to go through life without any regrets. That'd mean every, because I think every decision you make in life is a little gamble. You make a gamble. Whatever it is, I want to go get coffee here. Well, you know, maybe if you got coffee over there, you didn't get a car crash. So I think it's impossible to not

live with any regrets, but I'm pretty happy. So where I am right now, there's no pressure, dude. There's no pressure to have to go out and be social and got to impress the girls anymore. I just, I try. It's funny though, when does that change though? Because I feel the same way as you. I'm in the same place. But when does that change? Like, there's definitely some point in my life where I just felt like, the, why, the, the, the, the, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, and, to, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, to, to, to, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, to, and, and, to, to, to, and, to, and, and, to, and, and, and, to, and, to, and, and, and, to, and, to, and, and, and, the, and, the, the, the, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the feel like it has to do with a physiological change of like your drop in testosterone. Yeah, your body overthrows your dick.

Your body overthrows your dick and you go on, you just, you throw a coup. Because the, I mean, to a certain point, I mean, we're spiritual but we're also monkeys. And that drove a lot of stuff we did, man, you know, and at some point you're like, nope, it's over, the tyranny's over, it's, you know, you don't run the show anymore. And it just, it kind of lets the pressure going, ah, I don't need to go, ah, I don't need to be trying to impress all the girls all the time. I can just be gone through recovery and through the tools of that. I've learned that, you know, you know, Lil Think, all this stuff I'm going after isn't going to make me that much happier.

It's temporary. So what I have, it makes me, I'm happy with what I have right now. So your podcast for me, you have two podcasts. Why don't you tell us a little bit, which one you want them them them them them them them them them all happening. Yeah, so a couple years ago, I'm on, what, episode 107 or 8 or something right now, and yeah, a couple years ago I started a podcast purely out of, I mean, my sort of intentions were purely self-centered in a way. It wasn't to, honestly, it wasn't to bring good content to the people. It was a way to sort of jumpstart my creativity. I sort of felt a lull in what I was trying to do in life and I was like, fuck man, you know, what can I do to jumpstart sort of my, you know, my internal fire, my internal engine. And then, you know, I just sort of woke up one day and was like, you know, by, to to to to put me in this position of having to water it and nurture it and to work on it,

and to get it out there and to call people, to have them be guests and to work on that and just to engage with the world outside of myself. I'm an introvert by default, and only child. So you know what I mean? I can't and implode on myself. So the podcast was a way for me to sort of open up and sort of externalize and sort of get out in the world a little bit. And so, yeah, I started this podcast, which is really, I mean, the original intent was, you know, I have my sort of everlasting, evergreen philosophy is about like the fusion of spirituality and the two paradigms collide. And the podcast was kind of kind of of of of of of of of th of th of th of th of th of th of th of the fusion of spirituality and technology and where those two paradigms collide and the podcast was kind of

about bringing those worlds together but you know obviously it's drifted off into you know Eastern mysticism, psychedelics of course, music, technology, progressive issues, culture, environmentalism, whatever, you know. I love it. You know, you know, Rogan's podcast has taught us anything in your podcast, and what I'm learning with this podcast, is like there's a reason people are fleeing television and pop culture is because they want food for their brain. That's right. And they want to hear your take on everything and go into those deep realms

and stuff like that. So as we were tho' th hear your take on everything and go into those deep realms and stuff like that. So as we were preparing for this episode, he was just kind of like really talking, because he does a lot of the research. I'm very blessed that he's on the show and he does a lot of research and it really helps me out. And I know that people listening to this are really going to love it. And you know, it's kind of a lot the the the the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the. thi. thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. to the. to. to. to. to. toean. to. toean. to. to. to. to. toe. te, you know, a lot of people like hate YouTube stars. And I go, why hate them? Why don't you see what they're doing and see if you could use it for what you want to do? Like create something. Like when I go in the middle of nowhere and some guys like, hey dude, I've got a podcast, we do it. I always, if I can't, if I can't, I can't, if I can't, if I can't, if I can't, if I can't, if I can't, if I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I they're, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, I they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they're, they're, they're they're, they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're love that they're just doing it. And it's like even if they live

in wherever they live in it, they're not in Hollywood or not in New York or whatever, they're, they just are creating their own voice and I love helping art. I love helping artists, whatever way I can. I love doing podcasting. I first heard you on Duncan Trussle back in 2015. And I distinctly remember being in June because on 4th of July I was watching like fireworks explode and I was thinking about stuff you were saying. And moving forward in time, full on, it's interesting that you guys' connection is in a weird degree separated from Duncan. And it's just amazing how these type of weird circles can form and bonds that you can make, you know. How did you meet Duncan? I'm I meant thunk, I the the the the the the the the the the thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu thu, I was watching thu, I was watching thu, I was watching thu, I was watching thi thu, I was watching thu, I was watching thir I was watching thi thir I was watching I was watching I was watching I was watching I was watching I was watching I was watching I was watching I was watching I was watching I was watching I I was watching I I was thi I I I was thi I I I thi I thi I th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th of weird circles can form and bonds that you can make, you know. How did you meet Duncan?

I met Duncan actually through the Romdos community. You know, he sort of found his way into that, which I was... Well, for our listeners, I don't know what that is. Oh, yeah, well, Romdos, I mean myself. Well, Ramdos is, he is a spiritual teacher who, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, and, and, and, and, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, um, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th, Ramdos is a spiritual teacher who is definitely born from the 60s. He was my father's partner at Harvard University under the name of Richard Alpert and in the 60s he went from Richard Albert and he became Rommdos. And, oh, yeah, there you are.

Richard Alpert and Timitularia. All I have to say is that Ryan tried really hard to present all this stuff and I have. There it is. There's Ramdos. There we go. Yeah, so in the 60s, you know, it was a really, it was a very unusual thing to change your name to, you know, from Richard Alpert to become Ramos. Right. These days, you know, every yoga teacher and, you know, west of the Mississippi does it.

But it was a big deal back then to all of us and start calling yourself Romdos. And he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he to to the the th, and he th, and he th, and he th, and he was, and he was, and he was, and he was, th, th, th, th, th, thus, th is thus, thus, th is thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, to to to to to to to to to to change, to change, to change, to change, to change, to change, to change to change, to change to change to change to change to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, there is there is there is there is thus, there is thus, thus, there is thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, th he, you know, there's really, not to get into the whole history of sort of yogic science in America, but there are, you know, you can really trace the history back just to a few pillars of people who brought Eastern mysticism to America. Ramdas, the Beatles, when they went to go see the Maharishi and took up meditation, when seeing them in India on the cover of magazines, on to the cover of to the cover of the cover of the cover of to the cover of the cover of the cover of the cover of the cover of the Maharishi and took up meditation, when seeing them in India on the cover of magazines, on the cover of life was huge. Swami Asatiananda at Woodstock, you know, the Woodstock Swamy, and those were primarily like the big pillars that brought this to America.

And you know, in the mid-60s, somebody told me once, in 1963, in 1963a yoga, in 1963, and they, they, the, the, the, and the, and the, and the, and the, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, thi, was, thi, was, was, was, was, was, thamamamamamamamamamamamamamam, was, was, was, was, was, was, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they., tooomoma, tooombs., swa, swam, swam, swam, swam, swam, swam, swam, swam, swam, swam, swam, Really? Yeah, just movement, a asina yoga, only three. And so when Ramdas came back and became this person, you know, it really changed the fabric of, you know, how we interpreted religion, mysticism, and spirituality. And he really turned it on its head. And primarily gave young people the permission to feel okay about breaking away from Judeo-Christian paradigms. Which was, you know, that was the big thing. You know, if when you were 18 years old in

1965, you know, to say, you know, Jesus does nothing for me, I'm not interested in this. That was a big deal, you know, now, no, no, no, it's, no, it's, the, the, the, the, the, the, to say, you know, Jesus does nothing for me. I'm not interested in this. That was a big deal. You know, now it's, it's, you know. Well, you know, I mean, be honest with you, there was just an article where a city banned yoga because they were like, they literally were like, it's like, the devil's something. Yeah, 100% percent, yeah. Not in my town. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that was was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was that was was that was was was that was was was was was. that was. that was. that was. that was. that was. that's was. that's. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's that's that's thi. that's for yoga? So we're talking there?

100% dude. Not my town. It's unbelievable. Wow, it's crazy. Right? Yeah. There's so much information out there, yet nobody wants to get it. And it's such an interesting thing.

I love information. I love hearing about information. That's what's so great about podcasts. I mean, what we were just talking about before, I mean, the thing about, you know, my favorite, I mean, this is a lowering fruit sort of compliment on podcasts, but because, you know, there are no gatekeepers. You're the gatekeeper. I love it. You're not, you guys aren't reporting to anyone. Nobody's editing anything. Yeah, especially on this show. Nobodies what content we can put on. You know, as great as, you know, there are great shows on television here and there, of course, but they still answer to a corporate person at the top. You know, someone's signing those checks. Someone's signing those checks. I mean, us and Duncan and Rogin and me, you know, we're all kind of out there, just putting stuff out there that's just interesting to us. That's uned-ed. thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiuiuiui. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. And, thi. And, thi's thii's thiiiiiiiiii's thiiii's thi's thi's thi's thi's thi's th out there that's just interesting to us. That's unedited, that's passionate, that's unbiased.

Yeah, it's an amazing revolution. So when did you, did you rebel against this at first or did you just totally get into the yoga, what would you call it, yoga science of yoga? The science of yoga? Yeah, I mean, I was introduced it in my teenage years through Ram Dass and also I had sort of an introduction to the Hary Christian movement when I was a teenager. But kind of all of that combined, I was not, you know, I was not ready for it. I read Beher now when I was 16 of course and you know I thought it was it was fascinating and I loved being around Ramdoss when he would come over I mean he was just a

sparkling ball of light that you know I had never seen anything like it. Now did you know him before the spiritual change? No no no that was way before I was born well not way before but a few years before I was born and yeah so it kind of took a while for it to I guess gestate and sort of present itself in in the the the the in in in in in in in in in in in the the the in the in the in th th to to th to th to to to the to th to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to come. I to come. I to come. to come. to come. to come. to come. to come. to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi. I thi. I'm thi. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm toe. I'm thee. I'm to, I guess, gestate and sort of present itself in my life, yeah. That's amazing. Now, I have a little quote from Ram Dass since we're talking about him. Treat everyone you meet as if they are God in drag. Yeah, exactly. I love that, man.

There's a lot of good quotes here I have here for today, but I love that. What's interesting about Richard Alpert or Romdos now who he is, is that he comes from Jewish faith. And he always, he never really like, turned so much away from it. He's like accepted it. And it's funny to think that comedians, so many of the good comedians are Jewish, you know? That's funny. I think tell Sam, like, tel, the, the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and, and I, and, thi, thi, and, thi, thi, and thi, and thi, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, tho, and, tho, and, and, and, and, and, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin, thi. thi. thi. thi. too. thi. thea. thea. thotell Sam, like trying to explain the concept that I was thinking, because I've studied

some Hinduism that Hinduism and stand-up comedy have something in common where they see everything as kind of like a joke. You can't take anything too seriously. You either going to cry from like pain or you can just laugh it off. Well, you know, in Hinduism, in, pain or you can just laugh it off? Well, you know, in Hinduism one of the core principles is, you know, it's referred, the, I guess, you know, the philosophy refers to life as the Lila, it's called the Lila LILA, and the LILA means the divine play. And so if you just refer to your life as well, it's all part of the Leela, it's all part of the play, it's all part of the dance. And within a divine play, everything happens, right?

Tragedy happens, sadness happens, but redemption happens and happiness and success. So it's all part of this, you know, this cosmic sort of dance, which creates, you know, within yourself, it kind of creates this platform to detach from things that we find overly important. Yes. You know, like if God my God I'm my heart's broken it's really sad this sucks and I do feel the pain but it's gonna pass. This two shall pass. It's all gonna rebirth. Ramda said I practice turning people into trees which means appreciating them just the way they are. Oh beautiful. You ever just go outside and see the trees s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th th. th th th th th th th th th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thee. the. thi. thi. thi. the. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi, which means appreciating them just the way they are. Oh, beautiful. You ever just go outside and see the trees moving?

You're like, I get so angry when I see them cutting trees. I get so angry. I want to start a program where every time I see a tree get cut down, I go somewhere and I can't plant another tree. Yeah. You could. For people to understand a little bit back of the back story of Richard Alpert and Timothy Leary's, they both were professors at Harvard during the infamous Harvard experiment, Chapel Good Friday experiment. They both took two different paths. One of a path towards spiritual and one towards, I guess, a less, it's hard to describe that path.

I would say, well, I'd say, you know, revelation through the mind, intellectualism. Yeah. I mean, he was really, I mean, he was kind of really a quantum physicist explorer of the mind. I mean, I'm talking about Tim Lurie. Was he like, was he so so smart that, was he too analytical? Too smart. Too smart. Like you see people that it's like they almost can't interact with people because they're operating at such a higher level that it's not that maybe he couldn't interact with you well but just like sometimes they just maybe they're just a square peg in a round hole because they're so much smarter than

everybody else. Yeah I mean he was a really challenging personality. no question. I mean he they they, like like like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, the the the the the the the the the the they, you, you they, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, you see, to to to the, hole because they're so much smarter than everybody else. Yeah, I mean he was a he was a really challenging personality. No question. I mean he had very few, I mean, many, many, many acquaintances and people were always around but not that many great friends. You know, I mean he just was always kind of operating at this frequency and this level and always, always on, you know, which is a difficult place to be. Yeah, I'm... When was the first, did you go to India in your youth? No, I went to India for the first time in 2008.

Wow. And I've been every year, it's pretty awesome. So, um, not this year for a month. I want to get, do you want to get into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into into his his his his his his his his his his his his to his to to to to to to his to to their their their their their their thoea thoomea thia, thoomea, thoomea, thoomea, thia, thia, thia, thia, thia, thia, thia, thia, thia, thia, thia, thi, thi, thi, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, this, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thea, thia, thia, thi, th get, do you want to get into his other podcast? Yeah, let's talk about it. Tell us a little bit about your other podcast, because I find it incredibly interesting. Well, the other podcast, for sure, and it maybe has a better story to it as well. The last one is great too. Well, in terms of my involvement of it, yes, I host the MAPS Podcasts, which which is the multidisciplinary Association for Psychoids. I love it, dude. You're doing the Lord's Work, man.

Doing the Lord's work, but it's funny because now, I mean, it's within the thread of everything that we're talking about because when at first, I guess, crossed my desk as an opportunity to do it, it was not an immediate sort of, okay, let's do it. You know, it was, I had to sit back and consider it for a while and be like, hmm, you know, do I really want to be in the psychedelic world like that, you know, front and center and that front, because, you know, the comparison and the affiliation is just so close. It, you know, it took a while to get comfortable with it. But it passed and I did, and I and the the the the th th th th th th th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I to to to to to to to to to thi, to to to to to to to to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to, to to to to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be th. I, th. I th. I th. I th. I, th. I th. I was, th. I was, th. I was th. I was thi. I thi. I thi. I'm, thin, thin, thin, the. I'm the. I'm the. I'm thr. I'm thr. I today, too. I toe. I toe. I too. I too. I too. I'm took a while to get comfortable with it. But the past and I did and having fun with it. It's great.

It's been fun. So basically, I kind of, I was on Duncan Trussle's podcast and we were kind of talking about a lot of stuff going on. And you know, he's, I don't know if he's in the conspiracy theories, but he was vibing pretty well with what we were just talking about is our spiritual, our spiritual, our spiritual skepticism and you know they were talking about the deep stay and the wars and all this stuff and he And then he started saying dude, there's a group out there that's it's fighting back And he's like they're like this they're this group of light man and they're they're working for good and you know, I'll always Root for those people. I want them. It's sometimes when you see all the chaos in the world,

it gets hard to believe that there's a white night riding in. But he was telling me about this group that's trying to make like psychedelics, like legal for therapeutic group. And then I realize he's talking about your group. And Matt, can you tell us a little bit more about maps? Because I think what you guys are doing is like incredible. Yeah, no, it's amazing. And I just, I'm not, this isn't a moment of self-depreciation or anything, but I'm just

the podcast. No, that's cool though, the fact you do anything about it, it's cool. No, and I love it. It's fun. the 80s and to sort of give an idea of God talk about having a vision like, okay if somebody comes to you right and says, okay, you're going to start this thing, but you're not going to see any success for 30 years. You know, most people would be like, oh man, I don't know, it's kind of a long time to get payoff. And that's Rick's story. I mean, when he started maps, you know, I mean, he decided to go the route of re-energizing and reinventing and re-defining psychedelic research, because it had really gotten lost

through the war on drugs. And it just, it really got just, you know, left in the dust. So Rick came along and wanted to give it new light, the light, the light, the light, the light, the light, the light, you, the light, the light, you, you, you, you, you, you, the light, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, I, I, I, I, I, I to, I the the the, I drugs and it just it really got just you know left left in the dust so Rick came along and wanted to give it New light and new love and new respect that it that it really deserves So he started the kind of the long the long road shrudging the road of just, you know, finding a way for Psychedalic Research to gain legitimacy, but to also gain legitimacy through very, you know, I guess, I guess, I guess, and lost.... to to to through, through, through, through, I, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through, through through through through through through through through through through through through through through through tho, tho, tho, tho, thi light light thi light thi light thi light thi light thi light thi light thi thi thi thi th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi throooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo' thi thi legitimacy, but to also gain legitimacy through very, you know, I guess, standard channels. Yeah, I mean, you're basically trying to get the FDA, right, to approve as therapeutic, which is you're not just going up against the FDA. They're going up against people who people who have had a long game of misinformation for

profit. And we've done a lot of shows in here with a lot of people that before I did the show, I would never have believed this. But you know, it's like, you know, when we talk about the white son and the black son and mother earth and this demonization of the divine feminine and just about empathy. There was like a war on empathy and like being not being up, and when you realize that there's some people who have who have gone out of their way to form consent to get a certain

thing going and that is drugs and you know not all drugs are harmful. Some some I don't even know if I call psychedelics drugs I know they alter your mind but it's it's like when I think drugs I think you know crack meth heroin you know these things that could be medicine right yeah it's a tool it's a tool and I mean an add to that working with the FDA I mean you know the primary application of you know the MDMA research that maps is doing is treat t is tree tree tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha the tha tha tha the tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha th I the the thae to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th I th I th I th I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their tha's tha's tha's try. thau. try. try. thau. tooe. tooe is. tooe. tooe. I tooe. I t know, the MDMA research that MAPS is doing is treating PTSD with vets. So not only dealing with the FDA, dealing with vets and the Veterans Administration and the Pentagon. I mean, it's an incredible, incredible, incredible road to relate, you know,

try to unravel and, you know, just this year, you know, the phase three trials for MD the PTSD PTSD PTSD the PTSD the PTSD the PTSD the PTSD the PTSD tria applications to to to to to to to to to their to their. to their. to their. I. to the the the FDA thae, you. thae, you've, you know, you know, thae. to, you know, you know, you' thaf. thafe, you've, you've, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, toe.a.a.a.a.a.a.a, thauuu.a, thafe.a, thafe.a, thae.a, thae.a, thae, thae, treate, treat. thae, treat. treatmentment, treatment, treatment, thauu. thau. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. tr. treatyv. treatment, the phase three trials for MDMA PTSD applications has gone through. So that means, you know, within a couple years, MDMA can be legal for therapeutic use. And what do they basically believe the drug does for these people? Well, so MDMA, it's an empathogen, you know, and so what that basically does is it unlocks sort of the core source of where your trauma lies, you know, and where trauma forms and creates sort of like, you know, a hold on you within the inner depths of your soul, it creates, you know, all of these sort of offshoot things that we refer to in personality

disorders as fear, as ego, as anxiety, as anger, as, you know, as sort of getting, as trigger warnings, you know, getting, you know, set off by things that are all, you know, all come back to your trauma, all where that trauma was born. And when you take MDMA, you're able to sort of look at that core trauma and just add sort of a soft bubble around it, sort of a soft cushion, to where you can look at that trauma and let go of all your attachment to to tha tha tha to thiiii. thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, you, you, you thi, you thi, you thi, you're thi, you thi, you're thi, you're all, you're all, you're all, you're all, you're all, you know, you know, you know, you that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th.. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you thi, you thi, you thi, thi, thi. thi. thrown. throwne, throwne, throgu. throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne, throwne,to where you can look at that trauma and let go of all your attachment to it, which heals it a little bit. So what you're seeing with people who have, you know, very strong cases of PTSD, the MDMA can have them look at, you know, those very, very dark incidents that caused the trauma, you know, whatever that is.

I mean, imagine what, you know, an Iraqi war vet went through. And to be able to look at that in an MDMA, and you can really get to the place of forgiveness. Yeah. Of that, you know, it's not about you. It's out of your hands. You're putting a bad spot. You know, it's just... They're rewire, like psychedelics and mushrooms, they, they somewhat start rewiring your brain a little bit, right? 100%. MDMA was first prescribed for couples counseling so couples could open up to one another. And it's fascinated about that is that moving backward in time, LSD was first used by psychologists and therapists, but

the psychologist would take the LSD so they could understand what it felt like to be crazy quote-unquote. Really? Yeah, so there's that they were taking it so they could get as close to the edge of the abyss and stare into it and understand what people like the tho-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-so-o-so-so-so-so-o-c, thi-c, thi-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-cliu, thi-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-cologi, th. th. their their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, th, th, th, th, thi-clolou. thi-clololololoo-cloo-cloosy-cloosycloosycloosycloosycloosycloosycloosycologe-cloosy-cloosy-cloosy-cloosy-cloosy-c. th, th close to the edge of the abyss and stare into it and understand what people like schizophrenics and people with real emotional problems are going through. Because haven't you ever had that moment, you're like, I don't know if I'm going to come back from this one. Oh yeah, I'd like it. Yeah, I'd like it.

Yeah, I call it. Yeah. that's amazing. . Like, yeah, dude, I get that man. It reminds me of a- That's amazing. The Maharaji named Karalibaba, correct? A quote from him is, cleanse the mirror of your heart and you will see God. And yeah, that's very true. And I think that's very akin to the secular experience as well, is that it

polishes the mirror. You know, it's a very kind of traditional Hindu fictional metaphor, but, you know, polishing the mirror, you know, the metaphor of the mirror with inside your own soul gets covered with dust and the dust of the human condition, that's ego, that's self-obsession, that's fear, that's greed, it's lust, envy, all of these things. Clouds the mirror, and then it just gets so full of dust, but once you just kind of cleanse that mirror, you are exactly what your intrinsic nature set out to be in the first place. Divinity lies within, you know, the psychedelic phenomenon, the psychedelic epiphany.

It all lies within. It's all within side of you. Yes. And so, when you have these tools that unlock these keys and give you this new way to pierce the veil and to look at a situation from another angle, you're seeing something that was already true within yourself, but you were just afraid to live it. You're afraid to be it.

And, you know, I'm, and it's an interesting thing from me, because I am in recovery, I'm a substance abuse recovery person, but you know the psychedelic tool set is... What is your take on that? Can we talk about that a lot on here? Because like ideal, you know, we're sober, but I believe that shrooms, should be able to be done occasionally to open your mind, but then, you know, like... Well, look, I get why, the the the the the the, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you know, you know, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you know, you know, you, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the to open your mind, but then, you know, like... Well, look, I get why the AA, why the 12-step mandate is as black and white as it is and why it needs to be. I mean, I get that. I've been to treatment more than once, you know, I can get why you need to tell that to the newcomer. Right. I get that. And I'm not, I'm not that by that by that by that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that th th that that th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the thi thi thi the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to to to to to to to toe toe. toe. I toe. I to to the newcomer. I get that.

And I'm not, by any means, I'm not going to stand up at the podium and say, all you newcomers are being misinformed. Fuck no. You know, do the 12th test, do what your sponsor tells you, figure it out, get better. to come talk to me in five years. Right. five years. You know, what you're sort of... I get it. You know what I mean? But, you know, I mean, I know this is the most sort of cliche response to the whole thing, but Bill W. did acid five times. I don't think it's cliche at all. I think it's like a legit argument

against it. It is. I get the rules, because like, we as addicts, we obviously didn't want to listen to anybody and we want to do everything our own way. I think when you go into these, and I know we're not supposed to talk about that much, but I think they try to instill structure. Having a little structure. That's right. And then when you get to a point where, okay, now you've got to find out, do a little psychic diving into your soul and some experience and connecting with the universe a little bit more. And the great promise of sort of the 12-step model, and this was certainly true for myself, is that before I came into the 12-step model, I really did not believe that you could not use drugs.

You know, I was absolutely convinced that, you know, this is fucking, I'm going to have to do something, you know, I'm never going to be able to smoke pot. Like no, but you can actually get sober. That's an actual, that's a real thing that can happen. I've seen it happen. And you can have a great, amazing, fruitful, productive, happy did not think that was possible. So, yeah, but, you know, so the 12-step model has its place and how it's saying it doesn't, and I just, you know, just to echo my dad's work, you know, think for yourself and question authority, you know, get to the place

to where you can, you know, dictate your own reality and decide what works best for you. And you know, every indigenous culture since the dawn of mann, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, you's, you's, you's, you's, you's, you's, you's, you're, thi, the, you' is, you' is, you're, you the, you're, you the, you're, you're, the, the, you the, you the, the, you, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it, it, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, the, the, you know, the, the, you know, the, the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, And, you know, every indigenous culture since the dawn of man has done some kind of psychedelic plant and vegetable, because it's indigenous mushrooms grow pretty much all over the entire world. Cannabis and cannabis strains and tangents grow all over the world. You know, the history of ergot root and wheat. It's not quite as clear as mushrooms, but, know, with the natural form of other stage, it's in there in Ayahuasca. So these traditions have been going on for just thousands and thousands and thousands

of years as ways of sort of taking our humanity, putting it around the campfire and engaging in Seoul. I could have completely agree with that. I completely agree with that. It's just, we have a friend of the the the their their their their their their th th th th th th th th th th th th. It's th. It's th. It's thi thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's i. It's is is is i. It's is, it's is i. It's is, it's, it's i. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's th. It's th. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thatea. It's thatea. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. It's thia. It's thia. It's in thi. It's in with that. It's just we have a friend of ours who had Who went to Mexico for that whole treatment and he says they helped them He went to an ibugaine thing. Oh, wow. What is your thoughts on that? Well, I've never done it. I'm open to doing it. I'm? I'm open to doing it. I mean I've heard I've heard great I mean really amazing stories especially around the opiate yeah the opiate problem if you have an opiate addiction it can it can break the chain. It's fascinating as much as like when you get into the counterculture concept everyone brings up

Timothy Leary people bring up Ram Dass and my two quote-unquote gurus, in before recovery and post recovery have been Alan Watts and Terrence McKenna. So great. I listened to them, I have like almost all their available like lectures. I heard someone say listening to Alan Watts is like cuddling with Obi-1 Canoby. I've been growing up on KpFK you know they used to play they they, you, you, you, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they they they they they they they they they, they they they they they, they they they they they they they they they they they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they they the the the the the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to. I've been growing up on KPFK, you know, they used to play Alan Watts tapes followed by a, what was his name, oh my god, Joe Frank. Yeah, Joe Frank into Alan Watts it was like every Sunday night during my entire entire youth. Did you know this? I'm gonna just look it up on my Instagram because I posted this.

I just found this out, but that, speaking of Alan Watts and McKenna, since you just mentioned it, November 16th, Alan Watts died and Terrence McKenna was born. Isn't that crazy? It is crazy. And Albert Hoffman first synthesized LSD on that day. Whoa! All in November 16th. Holy shit. That's like the Holy Trinity of like... Who fucking knew that? I just found that out this week for the first time ever in my life.

It's not amazing? That is amazing. You just blew my mind. Yeah, I mean, did you ever come across Terence in any of your time? Yeah, yeah, I did. Oh, that that that that that is that is that is that that that that is that th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thuu. th. th. thoen. thoen. thoen. thi. thi. thoen. thoen. thoen. thoen. thoen. thoen. that's.... that's.... that. that's. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thr. thr. th Yeah, yeah, I did. Oh my God. Yeah, I mean, you know, I was young, but yeah, I met Terrence many times. He has a quote here about psychedelics. Psychedelics are illegal not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behavior and information

processing. They open you up to the possibility that everything you know is wrong. Man, that could be said about everything. I mean that is life right here, that is what we deal with. You know, it's just like we're raised to, we're brainwashed and raised to think a certain way, and when evidence comes that that's not right, people cannot come to grips with that. That's right. It's a power, well, it's a powerful thing to come to grips with because, you know, there you are sitting in your cubicle, and you've been sitting your cubicle for years, and you you thought it's all going well but all of a sudden you realize that little chestnut and that you just read and I'm like fuck man yeah what am I doing?

Terence also said reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into half-baked moron consuming all the trash that's been manufactured out of the bones of a dying world. Dude, 100%. I mean, you just, like I was saying, with those, with the, you know, divine feminine, you know? It's just like there's been a manipulation from these very smart, powerful people that's just to get you to consume their, their stuff, man, 100%. Man, 100% if the message of Terence is anything is culture is not your friend and you guys go on YouTube and watch endless

amounts of Alan Watts lectures and you listen to Terence and there's something about that nasly little drone of his voice that just puts me at ease you know like like he does feel like he is from another planet because his ability to just articulate and just go from the hip about any subject. It's thi, thi thu thu thu c c c c- is is is thu- is thu- thu- thi thi the their their their their their their their thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi their culture their to thi, is culture is culture is culture is culture is culture is culture is culture is culture is culture is their their culture is their culture is their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their thi. thi. thi. thi. teau-culture is teau-culture is culture is culture is culture is culture is culture is culture is culture is the. theateate. another planet, because his ability to just articulate and just go from the hip about any subject. It's beautiful. It's amazing. And you know what these guys, I think, what, you know, Wats and McKenna and Albert and Leary

as well, it's, you know, they had the incredible gift of being able to talk about the things that nobody else could really talk about. And that's sort of, you know, the rest of the 60s, everybody was like, oh my God, my mind is blown. I don't even know what to say. You know, you can't even express it, but they could distill it and put it into language that worked for us. Terrence quote is, there exists a dimension beyond language. Yeah, that's that's, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, tho, tho, thi. thi, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, that's, that's, that's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. Oh, thi. thi. Oh, thi. their, their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their their their their thi. thi. thi. th to talk about. Yeah, that's the best. That's to me, my favorite, my favorite, Terence quote. And the similarities between meditation and really higher, like getting in toucest with yourself in a way of spirituality, whatever, it's Eastern or Western, and psychedelics is, it reminds me of the the image of a monkey putting his hand through a cage and grabbing on to like the banana and you can't bring the banana back with you. You have to let go of it and

there's always that part of a trip or part of a deep meditator state where you're like oh I get it I get it I've like said that a million times both sober and not sober where I'm like I'll remember this tomorrow and then you're like wait what was that banana that banana that banana that banana that banana that banana that banana that banana that banana that banana that banana that banana that banana that that that the ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba I that that that that that that th. I th. I was th. I was th. I was th. th. I'll thi. I'll thi. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll th. I'll the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I'll thi. I'll thi. I'll thi. I'll thi. I'll thi thi thi theeean try toda. I'll try try try theeeeeeeean thi thi thi thi thi, what was that banana I had to my hand again? It's really tough. It's really fleeting, you know, and sort of dancing around the multiverse and sort of having a seat at another corner of the multiverse. It's fleeting. That's so temporary being able to remember it and take it back and integrate it. I mean, that's the great psychedelic, you know, that's the great psychedelics, the that's, that is a big reason why psychedelics are illegal, right, is because it lets you take a look going, oh, these rules are bullshit. Yeah, right. That's total bullshit.

And then you're just going, I'm really amazed at it, that they've allowed it to go this far. I try to think what is the end game, because the people who run a lot of stuff, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I th, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I feel, I feel, I feel, I feel, I feel, I feel, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their allowed it to go this far. I try to think what is the end game? Because the people who run a lot of stuff, I feel like to allow psychedelics to be legalized for certain traumas goes against their whole thing, which is profits, profits, profits, profits. Well, we have to remember, yes, that's all true. But we also, I mean, this is a little burst a little burst a little burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst burst. This is a little burst of optimism here is that we have to... I'm all for optimism, Doc.

Yeah, I mean, we have to remember that, you know, the generation gap is really closed. And that is a fantastic thing. You know, one of the great problems of the 60s, and you know, my dad once said, in order to understand the 60s, you must understand the 50s. The difference. You know, the parents grew up in the Depression. The idea of doing LSD and gyrating to Jimi Hendrix was Mars. Oh, what? It was, it was Mars. Yes.

It was so radical and so different. In comedy, it's like that, too. And Nixon, you know, Nixon was part of that old, I mean, he was Eisenhower's vice president, you know, he came from the 50s, he came from this cookie cutter 2.5 white picket fence culture. And so, you know, that has largely died. So you know, a lot, the generation gap is, I mean, I don't know if you guys have kids, right? I don't, but you know, if I ever do, if we ever have kids, imagine the conversations we can have with our kids. So that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's, th, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thi is, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the the, the, the, the the the the the the th. And, the th. And, the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, th. And, thee, the conversations we can have with our kids. So that's fused its way into the world.

And that's a great thing. When you do, you know, I started comedy in the 90s and the elderly people in the crowd were the ones from the 50s and they had a way different reaction to blue dirty material. They did not like it, they shut down, and that was offenses of them. Now, a lot th th tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho tho thi the thi the thi thi, a lot the thi, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th.. the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the andomeomeomea. toge andlou. today, today, today, today, today, today, today, thoe, the, th was offensive to them. Now sometimes, a lot of times when you get older crowds now, you know, you'll get a couple church people here

and they're like, but they laugh. They like, they were, they were, they were, they were the drugs, make love, you know, you know, don't trust anybody over 40, all that craziness, you know, they're open-minded, they were, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they...... T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. they're open. they're open, they're open, they're open, they're open. they're open. they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they.............. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They. They're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're open. they're open-a. they're open-up. they're open-up. they're open-a. they're open-up. they're open-a. they're open-up. they're open-up. they're open-a. they're, they're, they were the ones that were crazy and there's almost an argument now with this political correctness Which to me is like this weird like mutation like it's like the the the crackhead meth head cousin of the civil rights movement where there was civil rights was like everybody come together We love don't judge people now. It's like this weird like overreach thing but they're almost better than you know when you see it like a? the like a crowd. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, like, like, th, like, like, like, th, th, like, like, th, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th, th, like, like, th, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, like, like, like, like overreach thing, but they're almost better than

you know, when you see it like a crowd of all 20-year-olds super shiny objects, you're like, oh man, they could ease, these millennials could get really easily offended because they do have all the stuff you're talking about which is this freedom sexually, women are liberated. If you're gay, you could be open about it. You know, it's not, you don't have to live in the closet. Like, there's all, they have all this freedom now. You can get drugs on your phone, guy will, you know, weed's legal. You know, I said before if I wanted to get drugs, you know, I'm who sold me a bag and it had like sticks and stones and it was like a totally different thing. They have almost everything.

So now they have to hold on to one thing. They have to rage on one thing and they've picked words that it in my opinion. They're like this overstepping of like cultural awareness to like this like just buzzwords trigger them to they get they don't they don't they don't they don't they don't they don't even they don't even they don't even they don't even they don't even they don't even they don't even they want they want they want they want they they don't even they they they they they don't even they don't even they they they they they they they they they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. the they. they. the they. they. the the they. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to their. I their. their. they're. they're. they're. the the buzzwords trigger them to they get they don't even want and then they have fine print you know one people can say this but other people can't say this and lumping it's just this weird kind of stuff that they that's got it's got to too far it's gone too far yeah I feel that about a lot of issues going I mean comic you know I know some great comics who have a little older and I am who are thinking about about.. the the the the the the the th. th. th. I th. I th. I they they they they they they they they they they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're not. It's they're they're they're they're like like like like like like. I I they're like like. I they're. I'm they're. I'm. I'm. I'm I'm I'm. I'm. I'm I'm I'm. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm not th. I'm not th. I'm not th. I'm not th. I'm not th. I'm not th. I'm just just just th. I'm just th. I'm just just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm just th. I'm th. I'm th little older and I am, who are thinking about not doing comedy anymore. Because it's just gotten so weird. I don't understand why you want to take rights away. Like the right to, you can't be provocative anymore.

It's hard to be offensive, right? Like you can't. It's not even hard to be, like if you're really trying to say something make a point people hear buzzwords you know like back in the day like there used to be this comedy club in Chicago that I played in the early 2000s one of my favorite called riddles it was the best club to say but if you mentioned the word Jesus doesn't matter how in what context Jesus they would shut down on you. They would go with anything else. I mean, this is like, this is like north side of Chicago, I think it was.

They were cool than anything. Jesus shut down. Now with these kids, there's Buds' words. But if someone comes up that they socially accept, they'll laugh their ass. It's just this weird kind of. And you toured the whole the whole the whole the whole the whole the whole the whole the whole toward the whole toward, th, th, th, th, thoward, it thoward, it th, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it, it, it's, it's, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, th. It's just, th. It's just just, thi. It's just just, they's just, it? I've done, I've been everywhere, man. Yeah, I've done it all, man. I've done it all. It's just, and you know it's so funny, man?

There are places like, you know, Texas, Florida, Arizona, great cities to do stand-upid. But then you get into like San Francisco and you're like, what's going to happen here? Who am I getting right now? San Francisco, talking about a city that's died. Well, it's just like it's America, right? It's like this place where greed and like elitism is really taken over, but at the same time, they're super sensitive, you know, don't say those words as they're stepping over homeless people. Yeah, it's weird though. Like, that's a great example example to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to say the to say to say the to say to say their to say to say their city sa. I's a their city sa. I's a their city sa. I's a thaqaqaqa. I's a city city city city city city city city city city city. I's a city. I's a city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city. A their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their people. It's weird though, because San Francisco, like, that's a great example of good intentions

run amok. And I love San Francisco. Yeah. It's fantastic. But there is this weird thing where it's like, you got to watch what you say. But it's not, not everybody has to watch what they say. For some reason, there's some reason there's some people, there's some people, there's some people, there's some people, there's some people, th some people, th some people, they're like, oh, it's so like Louis C.K. is a great example. Like this group of people who are,

all these people calling him out right now are the same people that green lit him doing all the baby rape jokes and all that stuff. That one's ridiculous to me. I have to, I feel strongly about that, about the Louis C. In terms of what? In th, in th, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, th, th, th, th, th, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that, that, that, that, th. that, th. that, th. th. th, th. th. thi, th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, that, that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that the thean, the the thi, thi, situation. In terms of what? In that, you know, there's a difference between perversion and criminality. Okay, I agree with that. There's a difference between that. Not that he shouldn't

be held accountable, but now that he shouldn't apologize, you know, all of that. But do we need to pull all of his content off? Come on. Well, I would say I think that that was, I don't think it was pulling content off to go, okay, we got to get rid of Louis CK. I think it's, if I represent Louis CK, I'm getting all this stuff off because what they're going to do is they're going to slice this stuff all out and it's only going to make him look worse. Here's my whole thing. I'm friends with the two girls thi. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thiolk. thi. thi thi. thi thi thi. thk, they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're their their the thi thi. thi. they're they're thi. they're they thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. they're they're thi. toeeea. to get to get to get toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. toea. they're toea. story of it and you know you're going, okay, these two chicks, this guy jerked out for these girls within, the, which within sexual assault that that isn't the worst it could get. So there is that. But the crime, I mean, the second crime and what they always say, the cover up is worse than the actual crime is the.... The.. The. The. The. The. The, the. The, the. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the story, the story, the story, the story, the story, the story, the story, the, the story. the story, the story. the story. the, the story. the, the story. the, th. The second, th. The second, the, the, the the the, the the the, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, is the the bullying the if you tell anybody about this yeah by his management sure and now I hear Lewis CK is taking names he's finding out who's doing this and he's gonna remember which makes me think you've learned nothing from

this if there's everything should be a teachable moment now I've I've tried I've never walked down water I'm not a perfect dude to to to to to to th. th. the to do the to do the th I the th I the th I the th. the the the th. the th. th. the the the thu. the thu. the thu. the the. thi the the the the thi. their. their. I'm their. I'm the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I'm th. I'm the. the. thean. thean. tean. tean. tell. tell. tell. they. they. they. they. they. they. they. the the the the everything should be a teachable, now, I've tried, I've never walked down water, I'm not a perfect dude in any way, shape or form. Look, man, all I'm saying is that like, look, I mean, if we have that sort of standard for artistry, right? And it's like, you know, looking for artists to sort of be a representation of some moral high ground. I mean, fuck, we have a th th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thu, thu, that, that, thi, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th. th. th. th. Look, th. Look, th. Look, th. Look, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. that, all, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, th fuck, we have to throw out all of William Burroughs books, all of our Alan Ginsburg poems. 100%.

I mean, Martin Luther King had an extramarital affair, so did Gandhi. I mean, it's all, it's all just a bubble of confusion. Yeah, and I'm, I get it, and I, you know, I know Dana and her and our partner in that story, no question, it's incredibly fucked up but we've created this this position for ourselves to we're looking for artists to be purveyors of morality. Yeah I agree with you more again my my issue is with the cover-up and the bullying and the power play yeah and like on those girls because like what if they were your daughter your sister or something like that would I would go nuts.

But I do agree that. And what we're seeing right now is this movement by these people who think they're doing good. See, everyone, I said this people, everyone loves a witch hunt until you're the witch. Well, everybody loves a wit. That's a good one. But everyone loves a story. We're so starving for a story. We're so starving for a story right now. Like you can't look at your news feed on Facebook. Oh my God, what's the topic today? You know, what do we, you know, your battery done? Yeah, and I was putting it in my charter anyways. But you know what I mean? We look at, we've got to have a story. You know, we've got to, you know. 24-hour news cycle. News, something just to feed that that algorithm. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their, their, their, their, their, you. their, you. their, you're, you. their, you're, you're, you're, you're, you. their, you. their, you, you. You. You. You. You, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you. You. You. Your. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. You. the, what, what, what, what, you. the, what, what, you. the, what, what, what, the, what, their, what, what, they. We're, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what they. We're, what, what their, what their. We're, what wethat algorithm all the time and I think it's that's well we also have a couple other things going on is that you have a lot of people these social justice warriors who like to speak out and are we kind of take their their outrage at face value meaning one that they're doing it out of

love and not doing it to be like for attention or to promote themselves. You know, hey, if you get on MS, you say the right thing, MSNBC interviews you now, now you got a little heat going, you can do all this stuff, you can be outraged all you want to. And the other problem I have with this is like everybody who speaks out, we all magically assume they have a doctrine in human behavior. Like they are an expert in how people interact. And thiiiiiiii. And it. And it. And it. And it's thi. And it's thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to to to to to to to to to to to to to thi. to to to to to to to to to to to to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. You, th. You, th. You, th. You, th. You, th. You, th. You, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, thi. thi. thi. the the the the the the the the the the the to the to the thi. You're thi. You're thi. You human behavior. Like they are an expert in how people interact. And it's just, it's ridiculous. Who, we don't, who are you?

Why should I think your word on something? And I just think it's like it's a really bad game to go. And that's why we have so many horrible politicians is because people who, like, dude, I used to have a joke about it. the that ever party so hard next day, you realize you can ever run for public office? Like, that's a real thing, dude. That's a real thing, dude. Yeah, I mean, fucking Al Franken was a coked up Saturday Night Live writer. Of course, he grabbed some shit.

The guy who just did San the Night Live completely cracked out the whole time on crack. Oh, Darryl Hammond. Yeah, oh really? Yeah. He's a nice guy. Nice as dude. He was on S&L for years though. Yeah. Yeah. Not to go back to the Frisco. What I was been thinking, it's funny is though, San Francisco was the place for the counterculture, it's the summer of love. If on to San Francisco put flowers in your hair and now you hear stories about people that work for Google and other upstarts they're micro-dosing yeah the micro-dosing is and like they're making it's like I see it's a big trend but it's like you guys are micro-dosing and building sky net you guys maybe you didn't step back and realizing you're building the terminator well maybe it's that micro-dosing that's gonna

let them put the kill switch somewhere in there that they don't tell anybody about well I mean micro-dosing I I it's it's an amazing phenomenon I'm glad it's it's gaining so much headway and gaining so much steam but micro-dosing it's sort of only by convenience that it's associated with a psychedelic movement. Because if you've ever been on a micro-dosing regimen, it is not psychedelic. No. It's like taking a supplement. You know, it feels like just vitamins. You know, it feels like, you know, it's just like, you know, it's great for your, you

know, for your cognitive, you know, firing on a few more cylinders and it's fantastic for that. But it isn't exactly. If it were more psychedelic, you'd be like, holy shit, what are we doing? What are we doing? Well, yeah. They wouldn't be doing all the stuff they're doing right now. And it's funny because that's how I becamethe fence between, like, I'll listen to Terence and then I'll start reading deeper stuff like scriptures from, like I read the Bhagavidgita and I was like,

oh it's all right here and then I listen to Terence and he's kind of right. Like if you really want to see God or talk to God like 5.6 grams dried in a room, no lights yourself, and... That'll do it. That'll do it. I see the similarities, what's happening now with what happened in the 60s, why everyone was tuning in, turning on, dropping out, going and getting wild, having fun. I see it happening in the same sense with this EDM movement, where kids are going to burning man, and they're going to lightning in a bottle and all these different, know outside lands and they're just consuming drugs whether it's MDMA or all sort of acid mushrooms you name it and they're just rocking out like it's the last night of

Zion but it's like you realize these plant medicines were designed to help connect with with yourself not like necessarily. Yeah I mean I think we were kind of talking about this earlier when you sort of get the big revelation from psychedelics and you realize it's all sort of a big, a big lie, you know, everything that you're being told is wrong and everything like that. And I just think that every sort of counterculture movement, whether it's, you know, the 60s, the burning men movement, you know, the roaring 20s. There's, there's, there's, there's, there's, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I thi, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thin, I thi, I th counterculture movement, whether it's, you know, the 60s, the Burning Man movement, you know, the roaring 20s, there's always the edge, always the outliers who are just looking for escapism. You know, the kind of the being alive, you know, you know, the kind of the being alive thing, you know, especially if you're a millennial, I try to be a lot, it's hard, th hard to be alive. It's hard to... I gotta go to work. I gotta go do this. I gotta pay rent. Really?

Fuck, man. It's a lot. I should be a little more sympathetic. Because I am one, I'm like, my opinion, my generation was just post-Gen X, but before millennials. So we could still go and not have a phone on us that have all the world's information on it, 24-hour pornography. Like I was able to have like a childhood and still a teenage years of exploring myself without realizing I have FOMO or like I need to see the Instagram post or the Snapchat or what there's a there's a failsafe built into having too much connection whether it's technological or. I agree. Yeah, and then how that's all that's going thi thi thi th going th going th going th going th going th going th going th going that's connection, whether it's technological or...

I agree. Yeah, and then how that's all going to play out. Does anyone... I have no clue, man. I keep thinking it's going to hit some kind of weird kind of critical mass. Like sometimes I go on Facebook and I'm just like, this is not fun anymore. How did you get involved with Zendo? Because I definitely wanted to bring up the Zendo project. Well yeah the Zendo project it's you know that's I guess tangentially related to to maps

and and Zendo is really about harm reduction you know mainly out of you know born out of the festival circuit where you know places like Burning Man or lightning in a bottle to where, you know, you have to accept that there are X number of people doing pretty heavy doses of psychedelics. Therefore, just statistically, it's purely a math thing that so many people are going to have challenging, quote, unquote, bad trips. So let's not leave them, you know, rolling around in the dirt by the dry river

bed freaking out thinking that, you know, that, that's the end of days. That Felix the house cat's thumping bafes is going to kill them, you know, give them a nice place to go and talk them down, help them to confront what their trauma tip, to figure it out and that's what the Sandor project is. What do you think causes a bad-ass a trip? I've had them. I've had them. I mean I think what causes it is you are brought so front and center you're just accelerated at such a fast rate into the places and the corners of your mind, the corners of your soul where you're stuck. And you just confront them at of your mind, in the corners of your soul, where you're stuck. And you just confront them at such a fast, you know, rate that's sort of light speed. And you're so hypersensitive that being brought face to face with that at such a, you know, an alarming rate,

it's some, that's a bad trip. I mean, that's, that's difficult, You know, that's a difficult thing for anyone to navigate. And, you know, when you're there and you're front, center and within, just looking at it, crazy, dude. And that's what it is. You know, I don't think bad trips have anything to do with the chemical being bad,

or the killers within or that all of a sudden you think you're a flying monkey and you need to jump off the building. I think it's that you're just looking at the own mirror of your soul and seeing shit that they need a little dusting off. They needed to work on it and that's hard. So traditionally before it was Zendo the tent, it was just called the freak out tent. that as I remember people like the the the the that the the that the that the th. As I remember people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people people. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes., I mean, the people who work in the Zeno tents, they are highly, highly qualified with hours and hours and hours of experience and, you know, who really know of internship. You guys provide a compassionate listening.

Exactly. It's the four basic principles of harm reduction is create a safe space, sitting, not guiding. So you sit with the person, you're not trying to guide them through their difficult trip. You talk through, not down. You're not trying to talk someone off a psychedelic cliff. And for difficult is not the same as bad, you know. That's right. So true. So so so so so true. Yeah, and yeah

So I would love because you you talk to me because this is a spiritual skepticism podcast you want to go into a real quick conspiracy would you like to do since we're wrapping up here. Since you are, let me just jump in anywhere tell me where I'm wrong. This is a we we don't, we present ideas, we don't necessarily believe all of them, we just want to flush them out. Owsley Stanley. The bear. Yes, at only 15 he voluntarily committed himself to St. Elizabeth's Hospital in Washington, D.C., where it was founded by Dr. Winfred Overhelser, and it was an LSD research

through the Scottish Right Committee. So I said a whole bunch of shit. What I said was a 15-year-old voluntarily committed himself to a hospital where they were doing... That is interesting. I don't know any of this. He brought to, he was telling me Sirly. Have you heard this before? Yeah, I've heard of it before, but I really don't know the details. So, I don't, yeah. I have heard that. St. Elizabeth's Hospital is also where presidential. Hold on, you jumped over something though.

You said Scottish. So the research was, yeah, was funded by the Freemasons. Freemasonry, right? So two flags pop, this is a bunch of a story of red flags about a gentleman named Owlsley Stanley. We'll get into who he really became. All right, so after he gets out of there, and after a stint in the US Air Force beginning in 1956, Stanley moved to LA, where he worked at Pasadena's Jet Propulsion Laboratory,

funded by Jack Parsons. So red flag number. Jack Parsons and I and and. Alster Carlane also. Of course. Parsons was a leader. It's like a high school in the Hollywood where you're like, oh he went there. That guy went that actor went there that musician went there. So those that are into conspiracies a lot of flags gone off. We've got Freemasons you have a person. the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that's that's that that that's that's that that's that's that's that that that's that's that's that's that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that's that. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So. So that are that are that are that are that are that are that are that are th. That's th. That's th. That's th. That's th. That's th. That's th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. a mental asylum that does LSD research, and now you went to the U.S. Air Force.

It appears that there's military intelligence involved. Now you're working for JPL, which was originally it was Jack Parsons Laboratory. And Parsons was a leader of the Agape Lodge, the American chapter of Alster Carley's OTO, and it was also the first known contees of a so-called Nordic aliens. There's the idea that Jack Parsons and Alster Crowley opened up a portal around the same time when the Roswell incident happened. This is like going deep down the kooky well, but stick with me. All right. Now, in 1963, he enrolled at the University of California California, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the down the kooky well, but stick with me. All right, now in 1963, he enrolled at the University of California Berkeley, where he became involved in the psychoactive drug scene.

He dropped out only after one semester and began producing LSD in a small lab located in the bathroom of a house near a campus. All right. 1965. Stanley met the members of the Grateful Dead. He financed them with the selling of his acid and worked with them as the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their theoryoryoryoryoryoryoryory.au.au.au.euro.au.au.au.au.au. theirn. Stanley met the members of the Grateful Dead. He financed them with the selling of his acid and worked with them as their audio engineer. Stanley also helped design the band's trademark skull logo because the acid he made at the time was called White Lightning. And they would have the electric... Oh man, that's so crazy. He designed the steel your face, yeah. Stanley became the primary LSD supplier for Kinkeesey and the the the the and the the the the and the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the great the steel your face, yeah. Stanley became the primary LSD supplier for Kinkeesy and the Mary Pranksters. All right, King Keesey learned about the drug in 1959 when he signed up to be a test subject in the CIA's notorious MK Ultra program, which we've done an episode on.

Future Grateful Dead lyricist Robert Hunter also willingly doced by the CIA as well. A lot of weirdness going out here, right? Yeah. So Bear, as he's now known in the scene, was a key figure in the hippie movement during the 1960s and played a pivotal role in the counterculture. Sando's labs, LSD was hard to come by, and the Owsley acid had become the new standard. So the idea is that Owsley is suspected to possibly be the supplier of LSD to to to to to to to the to the the the to the the the the to the the the the the to the the to the the the the toe the toe the toe C.Sd.Sd. Ia toe. Ia toe toe, the.a, thi. Ie. Ie, toe, toe, the, the, the, the, the, the, thiiioln. Soxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxeauuui. Soeaui.auiauiauiauiauiauiauiauiaeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.ae.ae.ae. So the idea is that Owsley is suspected to possibly be the supplier of LSD to the CIA from that point on. Yeah, but there are some discrepancies with the dates there though. Okay. Is that the M.K. Alter was in the 50s. And that 59 is when Ken Keesey? Right, right. Yeah, yeah. It was in. And know the time you know QZ and all of that were on the road. M.K. Alter was disintegrated.

You don't think it still goes on today? It maybe not that exact program but some form of it under a different name. Yeah, I don't think it goes on with psychedelics. I mean I think there's of course, you know mind control is always you know front and center with any sort of governmental operation I think it has more to do with data and you know the ability just to you know AI algorithms yeah I mean that's really going to be human being sorry to derail this but yeah human being 2.0 is going to be a synthesis with you know silicon and you know what piss me off about that is I'm gonna be too old to get a cool robot body I know I I I to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the to to to the to the to the to the to the to the the the the the the the the to the the to the the to to the the the the the to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the they. they. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. I the. to be a synthesis with, you know, silicone. You know what piss me off about that? Is I'm going to be too old to get a cool robot body? I know, we're going to be too old to get all fixed.

No, I'm going to put old man, Sam in a sleek, new, fucking robot body? But, but you know, the thing, and people asked me, in the late 50s and early 60s, you know, when the CIA did not have the, you know, we didn't think of it the same way as we do now. It didn't have this ominous sort of overtone of like world spy domination as it does now. And if you were a professor in 1960 and the CIA came knocking, you thought it was a good thing. Right, right.

You did not think of it as, oh my God, the evil warlords are here to and I, you thought, oh, this is, you know, the government was still your friend then. Right, right. And I agree that the CIA was started by Nazis though. But people didn't th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi That is one hundred. But people didn't know that then. Okay. Yeah, I get what you're saying. They're the perception of, you know, again, it's like what we're trained to believe in. The government didn't really, like, you know, your relationship with distrusting the

government really just started with the death of JFK. I couldn't agree with that more. Yeah, that was the first time you knew something. That's what was going on. Something was wrong. Yeah, something is it right? Yes, something. And that's where they came up with the term conspiracy theorists. Something's dodgy, you get you to, if you, and it still works today, if you question theorists that happened on her show. We were interviewing the a Satanist. What was his name? Gavin, Lucian Greaves. And we, oh well you had him on

the show. Yeah, that's cool. It was a great interview. We had a lot of fun but it started off really interesting because he heard we go, hey welcome Tim Fouill. He goes, Oh, he goes, oh, he tiolu. today, thi the. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. tho, thi. thi. thi. th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. th. th. the. th. th yeah, he goes, are you guys like, are you guys those Sandy Hook people who are terrorizing this? I'm like, are we getting called crazy by the Satanist, dude? That's how you know, that's how you know you've won. Yeah. Is there any more this? I love the Al'sley story.

Have you heard stories of family asset? You've heard the term before? The family? Like the LA colt? Not the one that started there on Sunset. It's a term people used nowadays that it might be a myth, and I have a friend that's still a deadhead, Juan DeNiro. He's a farmer up north. And he's told me stories about that there are time lock safes and that people that were once real members of like the original deadhead family, that when someone dies, they still have vials of Owsley, purple Owsley, and that when they die, the time lock safe will be unlocked

with like the code in the will, and then now the realhead acids being released sand-doze. You know it's fantastic you know Bob Weir and John Perry Barlow what Wears lyricist is for the Grateful Dead you know they're members of the Bohemian Grove and and not you know you can ask weir and he'll say yeah you know and he said I mean his answer to it as well in the true the true weir way of the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th the th th th th the th th th th the th th the the th th th th the th th th th th th the the the the of the of the the the the' th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the of the of the of the the theeeeean thean theann. toooooooooooean. tean. toean. toean. toean. toee, well, in the true weird way of speaking, well, you know, it's the only way we could access those kinds of people. So, you know, but whatever, you know, so there you go. So being of a deadhead yourself, do you feel like there's any undertone that maybe the government or the CIA had anything to do with the movement catching so much steam? Because if people were freaking out out the the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, and thi, and thi the thi, and thi, and thi, and thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the thi the, and the, and thi thi thi thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and th. th. th. th. th. And he th. And he th. And he th. And he thi, and he thi, and he thi, and he's the, and he's the, and he's the an the an thean thean thean thean thean thean thean thin. And, and he's the an the an the an th do with the movement catching so much steam.

Because if people were freaking out and having fun then they weren't really trying to stop more or ride in the streets. 100 if you look at like there's a real quick just the thought of with you know if you watch MTV Awards they have these 13-year-old girls like twirking doing lap dances it's like oh gosh you know it's just like I mean I could get it to get it hey. they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they to they to to to they try try to try try to they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they they have these 13 year old girls like twirking, do lap dances. It's like, you know, it's just like, I mean, I could get it, hey man, be a hippie, do drugs. Have I mean like, you know, I could see that. I mean, I mean, there is definitely something, I mean, you know, some deadheads were getting busted in the late 80s when they're their third wave of popularity sort of exploded and like that.., th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I thi, I I thi, I thi, I I thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thri, thr-a, thr-a, thiiiiiii, thiii, thiiiii. thi. thi. thi, I thi, I exploded and we're starting to playing stadiums again and stuff like that. A lot of people were getting busted,

but you know the question, especially during the 80s, was often asked during Reagan America, how could this still be going on? Yeah. You know, how, I mean, you know, it mean, the Grateful Dead scene was also the primary conduit for LSD distribution during the 80s and then through the 90s. I mean, that's where LSD moved into a city, you know, just sheets and sheets and sheets. So interesting, and it just, it kept happening.

Yeah, hey, I mean, hey dude. Pablo Escobar was an asset, why not? Right, exactly. Why not the fucking dead? And, but also too, you know, a lot of people liked the dead. All the people liked the music, which is sort of part of it. Yeah, no doubt. So, Zeno Project. Yeah, Maps. Yeah.

Oh, thanks. This all started from the Matt's podcast. Yeah, I start. We're only 20 episodes in. Dude, I love it, man. I love everything you're doing, man. It was a real honor to have you on the show. I hope you had a good time. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. I appreciate you going through the the traffic. If we do it again, we'll Skype you in. Anything you want to push real quick? Anything to thi. Do anything. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I thi. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I good. Thanks. Do you need a water dude? I've been like I... No, the coffee was good. Okay. Yeah. Guys, here's those dates real quick. I'm sorry about this.

Social Justice Warriors will be San Antonio Thursday, December 14th at the Blind Tiger. San Marcos, Sunday, December 17th at the Cap City Club and then Houston, Saturday, December 16th at the Secret Group. I do not know why those are out of order. I got fixed the flyer on that. But I appreciate everything. Great episode. Next Tuesday, we got a great show at the Comedy Store. Do you ever go to Comedy Store, man? Yeah, you should come next Tuesday. Next Tuesday. I got a huge a the the the the the to to come come come come come to to to to come come come come come come come come to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the C city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city city the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to ca. to ca. tipc. tipc. tipc. tipc. tipc. tipc. tod. todayc. tipc. today c. today c. tipc. today c. today c. you ever go to comedy store, man? Yeah. You should come next Tuesday. Next Tuesday, I got a huge show. If you ever want to come to comedy show, you have my email, come there as my guest.

Thank you. And when Duncan comes in, we all got a powwow together, man. Awesome. Guys, thank you the show better. Support the show. Anything you do to help really help. So God bless, take care and we'll see you guys next week. No, we got another one tomorrow night so we'll see you guys.

Take care. Love you guys. Love you.