Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - Tin Foil Hat Ep 23: Making Of A Serial Killer With Theo Von and John Cameron

Episode Date: June 13, 2017

Welcome to another exciting episode of Tin Foil Hat with Sam Tripoli. On this episode of TFH, Ryan and Sam, welcome comedian, Theo Von, and Criminal Investigator, John Cameron, to discuss the documentary Making of Murder and Serial Killer Edward Wayne Edwards! On this episode discuss.... 1) The mind of a Murderer 2)Steven Avery and Making of A Murderer 3)The history of Edward Wayne Edwards 4) The Zodiac Killer 5) Did Edward Wayne Edwards set up Steven Avery 6) Wayne Williams and the Atlanta Child Murders 7)Theo Von's love of solving murder mysterious

Global controls will have to be imposed. And a world governing body will be created to enforce them. Welcome to Tinfoil Half. We go deep home, boy. Aaron, open your mind. Drink from the fountain of knowledge. There's lizard people everywhere. That's some interdimensional shit. Wake up, Aaron. This is only the beginning.

Dude, you just flew my mind. Tim Foil Hat. And welcome to another exciting episode of Tin Foil Hat. We are live deep in the bunker. He got myself, you got my co-host, Amanda, the legend, the most off-the-grid dude you will ever mean your life with the flowing here. Ryan Davis, Ryan, how are you? Hi, I'm ready for this.

This is a good episode. We're thi the th able to make it. If not, feel free to send them tons of hate mail. Guys, just want to say thank you to all the fans of Timfoyle Hat who came to the St. Louis Funny Bone this weekend. You guys are great. Awesome club. So thankful to be the funny stop at the Cuyahoga Falls outside of Cleveland. I think it's called Cuyahoga, Kahulga. Just go to Sam Tripoli.com, get those dates or check out my Twitter. Guys, also check out the new Punch Drunk. I mean, excuse me, check out the new, uh, our new Twitter, which is the Mad Hatter 39ers. Go check that out. It's a, uh, the Twitter Twitter twee Twitter twea twea twea twea twea twea twea, twea, twea, t. t. t. t. Cwea, th. C. C. C. C. C. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. too, too, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to too, to too, to. We. We'll, to. We'll, to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the thi. tri. the tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. tri. to tri. to to to to to to to that out. It's a, the Twitter account is getting bigger and bigger, so we're super excited about it.

So what's going on? I find out you just beat a court case, is that right? Yeah, this is kind of perfect for this. Yeah, it is kind of perfect. As you guys know, I am. I'm about 14 and 3 in traffic court, so I do know the legal system. So I'm very excited about today. As you know, we've had some great guests and some great stuff. If you guys love Tim Foyle hat, please go to our iTunes

and leave us some great reviews. Tim Foy, rate review, hit five star, tell your friends. If you want to see the YouTube version of this, please go to YouTube.com backslash Sam Triply. We got a very, very exciting show for you. As you know, Netflix is taken over, you know, the world. It's everywhere. Everybody watches it. And one of the biggest shows that's ever had is making of a murderer.

I know I couldn't stop watching it. Ryan, have you seen it? But you've done some research on it? Once I heard about this subject, I was, I was, is whether you know and I'm bringing in our guests in a couple seconds. The legal system is so amazing on how it works because ideally you want to believe that right and wrong is what matters the most and that doesn't always happen. You know if you ever get a chance to watch the 30 for 30, the Duke Lacrosse players, that whole story,

what you see is very aggressive, a prosecution where it's more about being right than doing right. And a lot of people think that's the same situation with Steve Avery and Megan of Murder. So I want to bring our guests real quick and help us go through the whole journey of Making of a Murderer. He's written novels, he's been all over television, has books out there, has a wonderful website

called Coldcase Cameron. Please welcome to the show, John A. Cameron. How are you, John? Thanks for being on the show. Totally appreciate. I know you've got a lot of stuff going on. We'll get into all the vat. And why don't you give our listeners a little background on you on who you are and why you're so interested in this making a murder to Steve Avery story? Sure, you know, I was a police officer for 24 years and I retired as a sergeant of

detectives in charge of cold cases here in Great Falls, Montana. And after I retired in 2005, I went to work in Deerlodge Prison Montana as an analyst for the parole board. So my job was to analyze killers and things in prison. Oh man. Make recommendations to the parole board whether or not these people were, you know, safe to get out and become a good member of society.

And it was in that position in 2010 that I ended up getting introduced to a serial killer named Edward Wayne Edwards. Okay, real quick before we get into this guy, your job is to analyze people and basically make a recommendation if you believe that they should be given parole or not. Like, will they be a threat to society? Exactly. You know, I would review all of their psych records,

talk to them, their victims, and make like a one-page recommendation to the parole board. Now, was there one there one there one there one there one there one there one there one there one there one there one there one there one there one the their one their one their one their one their one their one their one their one their one their one their their thi thi, thi. thi, thi, thi, thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to, thi. to, toe. toe. tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. toe. toe. th, their victims, and make like a one-page recommendation to the parole board. Now, was there one thing in general that you were looking for that you're like, okay, this dude's gonna snap? Or it's like, okay, man, obviously it was like that. He's learned his lesson. I recommend they go, was there anything that really triggered you one way or the other? You know, there's a lot of people in prison that probably don't belong there, drug cases and small time offenses, things like that. But no, I look for the cycle paths. There were always the tell-tale signs of the cycle pass, because if you got to read their evaluations all the way to the back when they were teenagers, you knew when they were young and so you never wanted to release anybody with violence and especially anybody who was a really smart criminal.

Really? You know if you had if you had convictions for things like forgery and fraud and insurance fraud and things like that and violence those were two big red flags that you were able to get away with murder really holy shit okay before we get into uh... the serial killer and behind all this thing joining us in studio one of my favorite people on the planet one the funniest people i know uh... he has a awesome awesome album out was number one for like a

couple weeks on i tunes called thirty pound thirty pound tho bags and he's got a nefli- awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the to to the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their to to too too too too too to-co-co-co-co-co-co-clio-clio-clio-clio-clio-clio-clio-clio-clio-clio-cooliio for like a couple weeks on iTunes called 30 pound, 30 pounds bag of hamster bones and he's got a Netflix special called No Offense and he has two awesome podcasts allegedly with math Matthew Cole Weiss and this past weekend my home boy I love him the death thank you for I know you're super busy thank you my good friend Theo Vaughan happy to be here man I'm already I'm already super intrigued thank you guys for having me so much Sam I'm super intrigued by how do thi you you you you you you you you you th you you th you th you th you th you th you th you th you th th th th th th th th th th th th you th you th you th you th you th you thi thi thi thi thi th. I thi thi th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm th. I th. I'm th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I the th. I the the the th. I the thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi to thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thughan. Happy to be here, man. I'm already super intrigued. Thank you guys for having me so much, Sam. I'm super intrigued by how do you figure out,

John, who these guys are? You know, this is fascinating. He was hired at this kind of catch you up on what you missed. He's hired at this prison facility. His job was to make sure that, you know, he was going to look for to look for who to look to look to look to look to look, he was to look, he was to look, he was to look, he was to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the thi, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th.......... th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thr. thr. toooooooo. tooo. too. too, too. too. too. too. th th thi. thi. th th was going to look for who he thought might commit crimes again who he did and it was almost like this weird chess play that went on. To be honest John was there anyone that maybe you missed on that got out and kind of made you know you thought hey dude this guy's gonna be cool and kind of went out and maybe committed more crimes. Oh yeah that happened more than once actually where you know you make the mistake of giving a guy a chance and then he goes out the the the the the the the the the to to to to to to the to to the to to the to to the to to the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. the the the the the the the the the the the the th. the the their th. their their their their the. the. they. the. the. the. the. they. they. they. they. tre. tre. tre. tre. they. they. they. they. the the the the the the. th happened more than once actually where, you know, you make the mistake of giving a guy a chance and then he goes out and he wax somebody two years later. Yeah, that does happen and it did happen when I was in that position twice actually that I can recall. So, really? And are you

it's a big responsibility but my job was just to make the recommendation, the parole board could do whatever they wanted to do. So they would let them out them them them them them them them their their their their their their the recommendation the parole board could do whatever they wanted to do. So they would let them out maybe against my recommendation and then they'd go and kill again. And is there any liability for these parole boards if that thing sort of happens? No, not here in Montana. The parole board's actually made up of five just individuals that are picked by the governor and they're just try to make average people look at the situation and see if they should be released. Now, is there a recipe for a serial killer? You know, as I was growing up, I would always hear these stories about like, these serial

killers tend to have crazy mothers who like dress them up as like, you know, girls made him go to school, super religious. You know, there's always this weird kind of, killed animals. Yeah, killed, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, is their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, is their, is their, made him go to school, super religious. You know, there's always this weird kind of killed animals. Yeah, killed animals. Yeah. Is there any like recipe for a psychopath, John? Well, if there is, Ed Edwards was probably the perfect recipe. But usually it's raised by a single parent, abuse at very young age,

being smacked in the head up to prior to the age of five as punishment. That causes a lot of brain injury. Oh really? Wow, there's going to be a million black serial killers in in the future because every little black kid I see always get smacked in the head by his mother. I just should go to Walmart be like serial killer, the serial killer. Now what about also the name Edward Edwards? Is that not a sign for a serial killer, having the same first and last name? Or is that just nothing? Or an assassin?

Well, that in itself, yeah, you know, that's not his real name. His real name was actually Charles Edward Meyer. And at the, you know, one is by choice and the other one is a violence commit. Did somebody kill her in front of him or did she kill herself? Well, on the death certificate it was listed as a suicide that she shot herself in the stomach with a rifle. But what's very strange about the whole thing is that after that happened, he was removed from the home and his name was put into an orphanageage.................. And, to, to, to, to, the the to, the the the to, to, the the the to, the the the toe, the toe, toe, toe, toe, toe, the the the the the the thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the.e.e. And, thean. And, their, they. And, their, they. And, their, their, their, their, their, that happened, he was removed from the home and his name was changed and he was put into an orphanage and he was like removed from

any contact with the family. And so there were suspicions that he could have pulled the trigger. Really? Wow. At the age of five. Cold blooded, home boy. That's early. Is there a genetic test do you that we'll ever have that the that we'll be able to the the thathe that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. the. thi. thi. their, the. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they. they. they. thi. the. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. ever have that we'll be able to tell if people have this in them? You know, I don't think so, but I think it's it's pretty easy to find if you have their psych records. Many of these kids are very disturbed when they're young, so they have a lot of psychiatric evaluations. There's a lot of information to be gathered. But, you know, personally Ed Edwards was a one in a million, really. Really? The man was a genius.

And he was a killer. And he was a master criminal. So you mix those three things together. And his favorite thing was to taunt the police with his intelligence. Well, now, is there a thing that maybe like just, you know, nature versus nurture. Like, this guy, you say brilliant, mind, the the the the the, the, the, versus nurture like this guy you say brilliant mind could be like just worked on a higher level if he had been born in a different environment could he have gone on to be a you know a CEO you know a really successful businessman and just he got thrown into this

world of shit where he just had to like fend for himself and it kind of like the the the recipe got mixed up and then next thing you know he's a serial killer. Well you know after his mother was killed and then he went to that Catholic orphanage he was basically raped beaten and abused by nuns, priests and older boys and so a monster was created that he had no love that's what he said throughout his life is he never had a parent to speak up he never never had a mother and he never had love at the very formative ages. You are born into a world of shit sometimes.

That's why I always, man, when I see somebody, I give them a dollar. You just don't know where, you know, I mean like I see some, I it's not the, yeah, it's like, so it's like, well then you got the other opposite that's Tiffany had as she was born into, you know, an orphan now she's like on all these incredible movies she's like it's like. But could also still be unique, I mean, yeah, she's a real, she's just has this wild fire and sometimes it seems like you can't even get near it. Like, um, yeah, I can imagine that if somebody has no love at all,

that they have no, then of course, why would somebody's life mean anything to them probably? Why would anyone's life mean anything to them? It's just like you to survive, thia, thia, thia, thia, thi, tho, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, survive? And sometimes it's cold-blooded, dude. So let's get into, before we get into the, why you, Edwards, let's get into the making of the murder. Now Theo, you love the, you and I were talking about all the time, as it came out, it really caught your eye. Why'd you love it?

So why'd you love it? So why'd you love that whole series? Well, I love the whole, I mean, I literally can't sleep at night unless I know there's a new murder that I don't know about. Yeah, that's where I'm met with murder. Yeah. I watched a murder this morning. I watched an episode Disappeared. I hadn't seen on the way here. Do you ever feel bad that. Do you ever feel bad, like the to thi. the that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's where. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. that's where I the the the the the the the the. I that's where. I that's where I that's where I that's where I bad about it but I also feel grateful to those people. Okay, I respect that. You know, I respect that. I usually pray a little bit for a watching episode. John, would you let Theo out of prison if he told you that at your little meeting before he goes at the parole board? I think you'd have to wear an ankle bracelet. Okay, I respect that. But it's just fascinating man it's amazing how we're so into this but I will start emailing people that are in the shows and saying what is going you know like even if it's an old case or

something. You email these killers? Oh yeah I'll email the people that are accused of it and really I'll hit him up on Facebook if I can find them yeah I get angry about it. Don't you wish don't wish thi. wish a first 48 had Twitter handles on there? Yeah. Like you know like poop bear, you know you can find out what happened to poop bear. Yeah, it would be great. Um, but yeah, making a murder out of the gate, I mean obviously the just a guy's life was fascinating. The fact that he got accused of a murder and then was not guilty of that. Well, first of all, he gets accused of a rape. Now, now, the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. thi. thi. Yeah, thi. to. to, to, to, to. to. Yeah, to. Yeah, to. Yeah, to. Yeah, to. Yeah, to. Yeah, to. Yeah, to. Yeah, to. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah, th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to. th. th. th. to. to. to. th. to. th. to. th. th. th. th. that. Well, first of all, he gets accused of a rape. Now, now, did you study the making of a murder story, John, before you got in to this Edwards connection? Or do you know, what's your thoughts on that whole case? No, I spent six years investigating Ed Edwards following his life and interviewing all of his families and some of his victims and just followed

his life, published the book? And he liked to frame people his whole life. I'd never even heard of making of a murderer. And somebody called me after they read my book and said, you need to watch this show because what you wrote about in your book is exactly what's taking place on Netflix right now. Holy shit. And within the first three episodes, it was clear that that could have been an Ed Edwards murder and he was definitely around at the time to do it. Okay, so let's get in real quick in case people lived under a rock and hadn't seen that show. Let me just give some quick little breakdowns and if anybody wants to chime in with tho that we'll do that and we'll just get the information going. You want to, you want to, you, you, you, you, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, th. thi. to, thi. thi. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that. that. that. that. that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, to, that, to, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's s on that, we'll do that, and we'll just get the information going.

You want to, you want to, you want to, Ryan, do you want to tell us real quick all the info you got? So the Megan and murder is basically about this woman. Penny Bing, Bing, Bern, B-E-E-R-N-T-Sen, she was a victim of sexual assault and attempted murder. Right before that happens, Stephen Avery has a fight with one of his female cousins. Like, she got him in trouble and he saw her driving down the street. So she, he pulled her over, got out gun. Like, she says he whipped his pants on, started jerking off, which he says he never did. He just wanted to have a talk with her

fuck off. Sometimes you got to talk with your dick. Sometimes you gotta talk with your dick. And a gun at the same time? Yeah, a dick and, that's two guns. That's two guns. Has talked with now, here's the thing is female cousin is married to law enforcement, some police officers. And you know, as much as I love cops, I'm a cop, I'm a. thau, I'm a. thau, thau, thau, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that, and, and, and, and I'm, and I'm a that, and, and, and I'm, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and thi, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and........ th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, and, and, and, and, and,. Sometimes there's a fine line between cop and criminal. And it's like, which side do you fall on? I've talked about this before.

When my grandfather passed away, half his funeral was. One side was Niagara Falls law enforcement. The other side was the Niagara Falls mafia. That's how my grandpa was. That's how he rolled. Not saying every cop. I thinksthere's great cops out there. It's not anti-coparanth. I'm totally pro cops. If you don't, you know, it's like without cops, there'd be chaos. But they're also human beings. And they also have this egos,

they have personalities, they have insecurities. Like everybody else, there's good and bad, and there's good and bad apples. They have a problem with Saving their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their this woman says she's running on the beach and she gets grabbed, sexually assaulted, almost murdered. She gives a description of the assailant. It literally looks nothing like Stephen Avery. Nothing like him. He gets thrown in jail. He does 18 years, takes 18 years for DNA to exonerate him. Yeah, 18 years in prison. That's crazy. How often did you, John, find people that you go? This guy didn't, did you ever

have that? Were you like, this guy did not do this crime and he is in jail for this? Yes, actually, three times when I was the parole board analyst that it came, it was clear to me anyway on these cases that they were in prison on murders they didn't do. And that's something Edwards played on was the police ability to kind of have tunnel vision on a murder case, especially a horrific murder case and want to close it out and not look at the bigger picture. And there's probably a lot of, not only ego, but there's probably a lot of pressure on them when the media gets involved. You know, like we saw with the Casey Anthony thing and Nancy Grace completely pushed that whole

case way quicker than it was ready to go. She forced local, the local authorities to arrest Casey Anthony and bring her to trial maybe before they were ready to bring her to trial. And I'm sure this happens with guilty. I mean, like, I'm gonna be honest with you. The black community gets thrown under the bus constantly in this thing. That's why, I mean, in an idealistic world. I am pro-death penalty, but we don't live

in that world. I'd rather see a million guys walk free than one guilty guy go to jail because I'm always like, what if that's me one day? Because if you don't have the right representation, you know, you got the wrong guy, and we'll see that with Brendan that he gets, uh, he gets the wrong lawyer and he gets thrown under their butts it's fucking rough dude yeah so he goes to jail he gets out he gets exonerated he's going to sue the police he's gonna sue them for what forty eight million dollars i believe that was the

number not enough not enough not enough not enough how much is going to cost you 18 years of your life of your life you'll never get that back. You should be able to take a life after that point. That's why they, that's why they find you in time, not in money. They find you in time. And it's like you're going to do this amount of time. We're going to take this finite number of years. We're going to take this thea. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. The. T. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. That's th. That's th. That's th. That's th. That's th. That's th. That's th. T. T. T. T. T. That's th. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. this left. And that's what they did. It took 18 years. Now, I think Steve Avery gets in trouble when the insurance company that covers the police and lawsuits tells them, we're not covering you if you lose this case.

And the 14 or the 48 million dollars is coming out of these dudes pockets. And that's where he gets fucked. So this girl, Teresa Hollmbach, is that her name? Is that how you say? Halbach. Halbach, gets sued. I mean, you're supposed to go over Stephen Avery's and try to sell this car on I believe Craigslist or AutoFinder or something like that. That's the last known picture of her life. She takes a picture in front of it, she disappears. They go, they don't even look at anybody else. They zero in on Stephen Avery because now they have to you know they're they got 48 million dollars oh hanging over their head. They shut down his property for a week no

one's allowed on the property for a week a week they're scouting the houses back and forth back and forth nobody found nothing. The what's the name of the county? Manitouac, Manitouac, Manitou. Manitua authorities are not allowed on the case because there's a conflict of interest. They still get on the property. Suddenly find him, boom. Suddenly, after a week of search of this house, there. Yeah. Suddenly they found open clean file. Now here we are. We're at the

murders. They get convicted on this on this whole false confection. No real evidence puts them right there. Here is where John you come in. Why do you believe that Edwards committed this crime? Well you got to look at Ed himself first of all. He's a highly brilliant man who wrote a book when he was 39 years old, and in that book he claimed that he was basically a reform criminal. He was married for 43 years. He had five kids. He had 11 grandchildren. And he was allowed to travel the country from the 70s, 80s, 90s, all the way up till his death in 2010. Claiming that he was a reformed criminaliiiiiiiiiiiii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and he was thi, thi, he was a thi, he was a th, he was a th, he was a th, he was a th, he was th, and he was th, and he th, and he th, and he th, and he th, and he th, and he th, and he th. th. th. th. th. thi, and he thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, s, all the way up till his death in 2010, claiming that he was a reformed criminal when in fact what he was doing and was proven by his guilty pleas was killing.

Jesus. Jesus Christ, how many murders do you think he committed? He was killing every year that he was out. And he was available, he was out 66 years. He started at age 12, and he went until 77, killing, traveling every part of the country, and portraying himself as a police officer, a civil servant, a psychiatrist, and a preacher.

So he was able to gain access. And Stephen Avery was just, was a beautiful setup for him. It was, uh, 203 when he was a, uh, to thousand thirty, thousand to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to able to gain access and to, and Stephen Avery was just, was a beautiful setup for him. It was 2003 when he was released from prison, he was all over the press. Okay. In 2003, as a wrongfully convicted man. Portraying himself as all the characters he'd probably seen do wrong to him or had some jurist, you know, anger against. Now, now framing people, when you have a couple murders that he's filmed for like five big murders, right, Ryan? Yeah, John, he confessed to five total, correct?

Yeah, four of them were couples parked on lovers lanes. And then the fifth one was a man that he actually adopted, changed his name to Danny Boy Edward, killed him. Yeah, let's them and collect a quarter million dollars of insurance. So that kind of showed you his criminal side. Let's get into these murders real quick. Could you tell us what you know about them real quick, Ryan? Yeah, let's break it down. So the first one, 1977 was Billy Lovacco and Judy Straub. It was in Ohio and he shot the young couple parked on Lovers Lane.

If you can go ahead and just give us more information you know to to the information. right? If you can go ahead and just give us more information you know about that one. Do you know any thoughts on those murders? Yeah, sure, because I had the same type of murder here in Montana in 1956 where Edwards was here, approached a couple, shot them in a car, kidnapped the girl, put her on her knees and shot her in a head twice. And so that was the whole reason I got involved with that Edwards is I wanted him to confess to the murder....... And, the.. And, the. And, to. And, the to. And, to. And, the to. And, to be. And, to be. And, the to be. I. I. I. I was, the the to be. I was, they. I was, the the the they. I was, they. I was, they. I was, the, they. I was, they. I was, they. I was, they. I was, they. I was, toe. I was, to. I. I. I. I was, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the confess to the murder that was just like the one he was confessing to an ohio and you know he's the zodiac killer he liked to sneak up on couples in their cars who are having sex on a wedlock or cheating on their husbands or otherwise

and seek revenge on them because he was born an illegitimate child just like these people are out creating so So that was his obsession. Now, do you think he was the Zodiac killer, or do you think he was like the Zodiac killer? No, he was the Zodiac killer. You believe that... Edward Wains Edwards was the Zodiac killer. Yeah, he definitely was. And that's what got me obsessed with the whole thing is I confronted him about that.

. obsessed with the whole thing is I confronted him about that because I was able to show him killing couples and cars from 56 all the way up until it's captured in 2010. Now the weird, okay, the weirdest thing about Edwards Wayne Edsworth is he goes to jail right? He goes jail, you know as a kid he's in the system. He's getting assaulted, assaulted. He escapes from jail. Do you know how he escapes from jail? He pushes the guard and runs off. No. Into a field. Into a field?

Like you could do in the 50s. That's how you did it back in the 50s. Wow. You just pushed the guard and ran off. And they never caught him again. That's when he ended up in my home state, Montana, after he did that. He ended up in my state killing that couple on a lover's lane and got away with it. By pushing a guy. And when you, the first time that you ever, so you met him John, right, and spent time

with him with him. I spoke to him on the phone, theyme and spent the phone, theyme. I spoke to him. any semblance that, like do you just worry that he's playing you the whole time or do you feel like you're in control or do you feel like he's in control? Yes, I'm like, like some silence of the lamb stuff? Yeah, because I could have... He's in control. He was in total control. He was going to give me what he wanted me to get. And the reason is, you know, I figured out early on and confronted him as being the the the the to be telling me and my friend is, it's so much worse and that we didn't understand that he framed

people. And that really was what he was trying to get me to realize that he's dead and he's got people framed on death row and he's killing in his afterlife, just like the zodiac said he would do. Hey, can we play a little bit th confession real quick to, uh, real quick it was on your website? Can we play a little bit? Yeah, we'll play real quick. Yeah, we'll play real quick. So anyways, so let's set this murder up.

One another murder they did and, uh, John, can you kind of get set up the dandy boy you kind of got into i just didn't want to jump it too much but q explain to our listeners and theo what he did for what this murder involved well it in regards to dandy boy or do you want it the most important one on the aviary case is the fact that he killed in Wisconsin not too far from where avery and Halback incident happened and he confessed to that lover's lane killing and that was another couple but in that case he strangled him and stabbed him so basically he killed by a rope

by knife by gun and by fire and that's what the Zodiac killer did and with Danny Boy Edwards you just picked the very low IQ individual convinced him to go in the army, convinced him to change his name to D.B Edwards and then convinced him to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the love the love the love the love the love the love the love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love love. to to their. to their. to love love love love love love love love love love. to love love love love love love. to. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. the very low IQ individual, convinced him to go in the army, convinced him to change his name to D.B. Edwards, and then convinced him they put 250 grand worth of life insurance on himself, and he did all of this, and it took two years to set it up, and then he lured him to his house, killed him, hit his body for a year, had them find the body in a cemetery and then collected a quarter of a million dollars and got away with it in 1996. Here's him confessing to the whole thing real quick. Fell in Youngstown, that was going to come behind, pick him up and hide him off for a

couple months and then he would be clear. He wouldn't have to worry about anything. He believed all this and was up there and he were, he died and I had the body partially covered and kept it that way. I went back up there about every three or four months to check. I wanted the body found, but not immediately, but I didn't want to bury it either. So it left partially covered. And the one time was about a year later when I went up to check on it, the head had been separated from the body to the one time was about a year later, when I went up to check on it, the head had been separated from the body to the animals and everything. And I took it with me.

Animals. They took it across the street and threw it up into the field and the police and everything they'd been looking for it, but they can't find it. It was nothing but the skull. They've unable to find it. But it was a hundred that found Danny and the rest of the story everybody knows it where he was found and why, but that was set up. And after he was found it was oh I'm not sure maybe a year later maybe not as much as a year that I Collected 250,000 dollars on the from the the investigation

But the Makes you want to kill my buddy dude. to see what? One of my little? Oh, my? Oh, my? Oh, my? Oh, my? Oh, my? Oh, my? Oh, my? Oh, my? Oh, my? Oh, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, I, I, I, I, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, I. the? the. the. the. the. the? the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm? that, I'm? that, I'm? that, I, I'm? that, I that, I that, I that? that? that. th. th. th. th. th. the? the investigation. But the... God. Makes me want to kill my buddy, dude. Makes me. Set it up? Oh my God, dude. Do you think, and John, so I have this question is, can the, like if he can't feel any

love, why does that manifest itself as murdering people? Like, why, why did these people end up being murderers? Well, he looked at it as he's doing the world a favor by not creating more of him. And that's why he killed couples in cars having sex out of wedlock and creating, you know, having babies that didn't have loving parents or fathers or whatever it might be. That was one, one reason why he

would kill because he would kill cheaters too and sinners and people that were scooted around their husbands and their wives and it was all based kind of on the Catholic religion of the seven deadly thins. You know if you were a sinner he felt justified to kill you. And then why did he kill Teresa Halbeck then if you if you... Okay so let's get into that real quick so so your theory is and the theory that is out there is that he was somewhat jealous of Stephen Avery or saw an opportunity to set this thing up now? Do you know of any cases besides the Stephen Avery one where you believe he set somebody up and went and watched their trial? Do you know of any John offhand?

Yeah, he attended trials in the 50s, in the 70s, in the 80s. He testified in the late 80s at a guy's trial that he had framed. Do you have any more details on any of those cases that like where he kind???? he, he he, he he, th, th, he he, th, that, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th,, he testified in the late 80s at a guy's trial that he had framed. Do you have any more details on any of those cases that like where he kind of set up and the guy actually went to jail? Yeah, in fact, in 1955, before he came to my hometown he framed a man named Burton Abbott down in California. And while Edwards was here in Montana and Deer Lodge Prison, they executed Burton Abbott for his murder.

And they got away with it. So that's why the Zodiac was the executioner, is that he could frame people and be the Judge Dury and executioner. And that's why he wore that executioner's hood in September of 1969 when he killed a couple on a beach in California. And he actually told them, the Zodayk killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer killer the to their to their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their, thoe. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their was was was their. He was their was their, their. He was their, their their, their their their their their they. Hea. Hea. Hea. He was they. He was they. He was they. He was they. Hea. He was the the the the the they. Hea. He got theirld him, the Zodiac Killer said to that couple in 1969 that he had been in Deer Lodge Prison, that he had killed a guard, that he had stolen a car, and he was headed to Mexico. And Edwards had done all of that here in Montana, but he had done it 13 years earlier,

1956 to 59 when he was in Deer Lodge Prison where I worked. And basically there's a riot where two guards were killed and Edwards was part of the riot. And it was always a game with Edwards. He would always give clues to his victims. And in regards to the Avery case, and Paul Avery was a reporter for the San Francisco examiner and chronicle and during the Zodiac case. And the Zodiac sent Paul Avery letters in, to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the guard guard guard guard guard guard guard guard. the the the the the the the the the the guard guard guard. the guard guard guard. the guard guard. the the the the guard. the the the theaute. thef. theaug. theaug. theaug. theaug. theaug. theaug. theaug. the the the the the the the the the the Francisco examiner and Chronicle and during the Zodiac case and the Zodiac sent Paul Avery letters in 1973 over and over again taking responsibility for other murders and teasing Paul Avery you know that he

was great okay I'm sorry who's Paul Avery again he's a reporter that he was in the movie Zodiac actually he's the reporter from San Francisco that he was in the movie Zodiac actually. He's the reporter from San Francisco that chased the Zodiac and kind of you know went downhill after it. Did he ever link him to Edwards? Did he ever link Edwards and Zodiac? Yes, yeah in fact the the Zodiac puzzles that were sent in 1969 and 70 that said if you solved them you would have my name. We solved him in 2010 confronted Edwards and the puzzle said, my name is Edward Edwards. What? He had taken his name and made hieroglyphics out of the letters in his name and the letters in his name. their image. He was teasing everybody with his intelligence. And when we cracked it, the character, 13 characters were to the cipher,

13 characters to the name Edward Edwards. And he had used his, the letters in his name. And once you had his name, it was solvable. And that's when we confronted him, he confirmed we were right, but that we didn't quite understand how bad it was. We thought, well, you're the Zodiac, holy shit, this is fucking cool. It's gonna be crazy, right? But it's so much worse than that because he framed people. Right. And he always tied his killings back to the to names

of previous murders, like an Avery. Nobody knows that another Stephen Avery was murdered in 1973 near Leavenworth Prison. And Edwards did it, and Edwards was in Leavenworth Prison. And a guy named Stephen Avery, his mother Hazel Avery, and a guy named Gary Longfellow were all executed in the car with two shots to the head like Teresa Hellback was. And that happened in 73. Stephen Avery gets up in 2003, and Ed can't resist setting up a guy who just did 18 years, but not only setting up Stephen Avery, but setting up the Manitowak Sheriff's

Office to look stupid and look like they were the ones planting the evidence. Those cops wouldn't have done all that. It was too obvious. It led right back to them. I mean, they're not, they're not that stupid. But the killer was always inside the cops. the cops. the cops. the cops. the cops. the cops the cops the cops the cops the cops the cops the cops the cops the cops the cops. Those the the the the the the the the the th. Those th. Those th. Those th. Those th. Those th. Those th. Those thi thi thi thi thi thi the th. the th. th. the the the the thi the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. the. the. the. their. their. the. the too obvious. It led right back to them. I mean, they're not. They're not that stupid. And the killer was always inside the cops. And that's the way Edwards was in all his murders. He was inside under assumed identities, leading the direction to anybody but him. Oh, my God. And those photos where you see him in the background of some of these court appearances and stuff. Are the, is taphyhynterterterterter case. Is thaa. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. the they. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the. the. the. the. they. they. they. they. they. th. th. th. th. th. th. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. to. tha. t. t. the background of some of these court appearances and stuff. Is that definitely him? In the Avery case, I don't know for sure. We never did identify who that man is in the courtroom in that case, but there's two other cases back in 56 here in Montana and in Chicago, that is definitely him in the background

at the funerals of the victims. And that's the threat.. That could be any dude in the Midwest. Yeah, that could be any dude in the Midwest that could... Looks like both of my grandfathers. Yeah. Just going to pay a parking ticket. Yeah. But that looks a lot like him though.

But if he, but no matter what, whether that's him in this photo or not, you believe that he did he that he that he that he that's that's that's that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's that's, that's, thi, thi, thi, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, the the that's, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thethough, John. Yeah, he had killed in Wisconsin, obviously confessed to the 1980 double murder, but he had killed in Wisconsin in the 50s and 60s, too. And he hated Wisconsin for the very fact that the warden in Deerlodge prison, where I worked, came from Wisconsin and really through the prison for a loop, and that's when the riot happened th was th was th got th got th got th got th. th got th got th. th got thoan th got th. the th. thi thi thi thi thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thea' thea' the. the. thea' the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. He's th. He's th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He th. He's that's that's the. He's that's that's that's the. that's that's that's that's that's the. that's that's the. that's that's theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. He's the. He's the. He's thethe prison for a loop and that's when the riot happened and Edwards got involved in the riot and so he would return to states that he named in his book and kill and frame somebody he did it here in Montana he did it in Wisconsin Ohio Florida Texas California Arizona so let's do this You have it. You believe he did it. Can you take us through it? How you see it plays out and how

Edwards set this up and put the whole thing in motion? Yeah, as soon as Stephen Avery was released in 9-11 of 2003 is when Edwards would have saw that. He would have seen that he did 18 years wrongfully convicted. He had a right name to connect it to his puzzle with the Zodiac, with the name Avery, and he lived in the right state, Wisconsin, a state that Edwards hated and had killed him. And so what Ed would have done is try to figure out, how can he set him up? Well, Teresa Halback was the female that regularly went to the Avery Selvage Yard

to photograph the cars they were selling. And so that was a perfect opportunity. You know, here you got Teresa working for a magazine, editor, magazine, photographer for a magazine. That's exactly who the Zodiac taunted his whole life, were editors and magazines and newspapers. And he would just have to figure out how to get her to go to Avery Salveridge at the last place known that she was and then kill her.

And then slowly plant the evidence to imply that it was Stephen and the cops did the planting. Well, the way to do that is to get into the cops. He had to have known somebody in the Manitwock Sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff sheriff s s, the the the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, the way to do that is to get into the cops. He had to have known somebody in the Manitowak Sheriff's Office and they wouldn't have known him as Edward Edwards. He would have had credentials. He had a machine to make him that would have showed that he was a retired Marine, that he was a civil expert? Did he have that? Was that something he was known for as having like a laminate maker and some kind of official identification. Is that something? Yeah, they seized it actually in 2009. And he was making not only identifications as police officers,

but also as a doctor of psychiatry with all of the diplomas and buring his victims into his office and preacher. And so it was easy to whip out the credentials and he knew civil engineering. He went to the marines. He went to the marines. the Marines. He went the marines. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their. their. their. their. their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. He their. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He was. He was. We the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theya.ea. was easy to whip out the credentials and he knew civil engineering. He went to the Marines when he was 17. He did basic training in the Marines in 1950 and then they found out that he lied about his name and everything and they threw him out and he started killing.

John, what's the evidence that he's planted that you're referring to? So he kidnaps, kills her. the evidence. the evidence. the evidence. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. toe. toe. toe. I is is is is toe. I is is toe. I is is toe. I is is toe. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He's is is is is is is is is. He. He. He. He's is. He's is. He's is. He's is. He's is toe. He's is toe. toe. thi. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. He's toe. He's toea. He's toea. He's toea. He's toe. He's toe. He's toe. He's toe. He's toe. He's the evidence that he's planted that you're referring to? Yeah, so he kidnapped, kills her, how does he plant the evidence? Now this is a weird moment because you're saying there's some kind of collusion going on between him and the cops, cops might not know he's a serial killer, but all of a sudden, bones show up, which is a big thing that people talked about on the show that. These bones suddenly get there, their the bones, the bones, the bones, the bones, the bones, their, their, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi. thi. thi. tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thee. theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. theeeee. thee. thi. thi. thi. th. th. the show that these bones suddenly get there, there's no sign of any kind of blood or anything in the house where the murder supposedly happens. This idiot redneck guy suddenly becomes Dexter, fucking puts up all this plastic in this place, kills everybody, no DNA is found anywhere of her in the house, but suddenly there's bone fragments in the pit. How does how does how does he get her in your head as you know Edwards how does he get the body to the pit? And the car back to the property right?

Yes how's that all happened? Right and we know the car wasn't there after she disappeared. They flew over when she was reported missing That car was not in that lot. It was brought there that next Friday night, a few days later, and it was seen driving in there and being planted in there. So that's the first thing they find is the car. Then two days later, they start finding bones in the burn pit. And the next day they find a key planted inside the bedroom. And he would have been part of that, you know, the 40 to 60

people that all got together the day they were going to go look for the car. And Hillagas, the boyfriend, led that charge. He led the search team. And that's who you know Kathleen Zellner is naming right now as the suspect in the case. That's who Edwards would have gotten into was Hillegis and Teresa Halback, but Teresa is dead, but he would have gotten anything he needed as just the nice helper guy who attended the meetings and claim to have expert, you know, expertise and searches, and he did. He attended many of his searches throughout his life. He would have been inside the church that Teresa Halback went to, he would have attended it so he would have looked comfortable. That's the way he was.

He could groom his way into anybody and they would come to him. And do you, is there any extra proof for that? Like, have you been able to speak with, um, with the boyfriend? You know, since Kathleen Zellar took over the case, I went out and visited with the Avery's just after Netflix released that show because I couldn't believe it I was watching. And I questioned them and I gave him a copy of my book and I showed them pictures of Edwards.

And basically, Edwards was the same age as Steve's mom and dad. And it was as simple as getting into the salvage,, getting his DNA off any of the old t-shirts, underwear, whatever. And that's how easy it would have been because Steve cut his finger. There would have been blood in the garbage cans. This is so believable. But how, I mean, now, getting on to this property, because like, you know, I grew up in a ratty white environment and the last thing you th. th. th. th. th..... I th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. I th. I's, th. I's, th. I's, th. th. th. th. thi, th. thi, thi, thi, thin' thin' thin' th. th. th. th. th. And, th. And, th. And, the the the they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi. And, thin, thin, th. And, toe. And, toe. And, toea. And, toea. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, they's, the last thing you want to go do is milling around on some poor white people's land. Like, I would way rather jump onto the White House lawn than I would jump onto the white trash house lawn, you know? So what makes you think that an old guy like that can get on there? Well, yeah, I just, I mean, I was out at the car lot. I mean, I'm, I pull in there and you say, I'm looking for a part for this car.

You mind if I go look in your lot? The lot was massive. It was 44 acres. Anybody is allowed to go out there. And in fact, when they found the car, and this is in the record from the phone call that Pam Sturm made, there was a mann't, the man, th, th, th, th, the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th... th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi, the thi, thi, th. the th. th. the the th. the th. the the th. the the the the the the the the the the lot, the lot, the lot, the lot, was was the lot, was the lot, was the lot, was the lot, was the the the the the the the the the the the the th.... th. th. th. th. thi. that. thr. toe. toe. toe. toeat toeat toeat toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. the the the the the lot was the lot was the the that made her frightened and scared her. And I believe at that time that would have been Ed Edwards. He had planted the car. He was part of the search team.

And he just led police down this path to make it look like Avery did it. So every year have to be the stupidest, smartest criminal, or someone was planting the evidence. And they're claiming it's Ryan Hilligus. But he's a nurse, I I I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, I th, and we th, and we th, and we th, and we th, and we th, and we th, and we th, and we th, th, th, th. th, th is th is th is th is th is thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, the, th. th. the, the, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's theea. thea. thea. the. the. the and they're claiming it's Ryan Hilligues, but he's a nurse, he's not a psychopath. Yeah, I mean we do see in all that, you know, it's a classic law and order plot. They, you know, when a murder or a crime happens, they always take pictures of everybody watching and that happens you have to take a picture again and they look for the same guy who's there all the time. And at the end of the day, how, th day, th day, th day, th day th day th day th day th day th day th day th day th day th th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, the thi, the the thi, their, their, their, thi, their, their, their, their, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they. they. they. they. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. their, their, their, their, their, the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, their, their, to to to to to to their, to to their, their, their, they. the. the. the.the time. And at the end of the day, how many murders do you think that Edwards head committed?

If you had the ballpark it and you're like, you don't have the exact number, but what would you say it would be? On the average five to ten a year when he was out and able to do it. So, 66 years he was killing and out of, that was 66, 14 he was in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in in the the the the the the the the to do it. So 66 years he was killing and out of those 66, 14 he was in prison. So basically to have like 50, you know, 48 years right around there to kill five to 10 a year every year and that really you have to read what the Zodiac said in his letters.

He got his rocks off by killing and framing people. And so that was his addiction. There's no serial killer that's ever been profile like Ed Edwards. You know, he was married with a family who, you know, he stabbed his wife once and refused to let her go to the hospital because he could fix her. He portrayed himself as a doctor. He had all the techniques to do it. Now how long did it was, and he, was he married this whole time? Yes, he was married to the same wife for the past 43 years. After he stabbed her?

Yeah, yes, she stayed with him and she would never cross him. She, and her kids would never cross him either. He just was, you know, he would travel from one end of the country to the other. They'd be under assumed-inininininininininininininininin their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th.. He. He. He. He was the. He was the. Hea. Hea. thea. Hea. Hea. Hea. He was, thea. Hea. He was, thea. Hea. He was, thea. He was, the he would travel from one end of the country to the other. They'd be under assumed names. They'd be living in campgrounds or rented houses, a ten school a year here, go to another place, a ten school a year here. And the whole time, dad's killing.

Do they know? They don't know it. They just know that something's not right. They're not right. They're not right. They're not. The. T. T. T. T. The. T, th. T, th. T, th. T, th. T, thu. T, thin. T, thi. T, thin. thi. thin. tho. tho. tho. tho. They just thi. tho. tho. their. their. their. their. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're their. They just. They're their. They're th. They're th. They're th. They're th. They're thi. They're thi. thi. their. thi. their their their thin. the. thea. thea. thea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. their their their their their their or because I can't imagine that if I'm that sadistic and I'm around my family that I wouldn't like drop little, you know, little hints in here and there like whether I'm writing it on the bottom of their Christmas presents or something just just just devilish and bizarre you know? Yeah. Do you think? Oh he openly did that with his children. He talked about the Zodiac killer case his whole life. Really? He made them watch the movies, he made them watch the Exorcist, he made them almost partake in a way and not know it. Now do you talked any of them? Any of his kids? Yeah, he had five kids. I've talked to four of them. Oh really? I've talked to the wife. He had three wives actually and I talked to two two two two th th the th to th th th their th their tho tho their their their their their thoed their their their their their their their their kids their kids their kids their kids their kids kids kids kids kids kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids kids kids kids, their kids kids kids kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids. their kids. their kids. their kids. their th. thi. Yeah. Yeah, thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. their their their their their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their their thi. thi Oh really? I've talked to the wife. He had three wives actually and I've talked to two of them and he killed when he was with them. Him and his wife would trape around

as a doctor of psychiatry. He would get the information needed to frame somebody and kill somebody, usually cheating husband or cheating wife or somebody, somebody's sinning in a bad way, stealing money, and then frame someone close to him and walk away as the nicest guy in the world. Nobody suspected. And no children, it doesn't sound like he did this with children, huh? Oh no, he killed many, many, many children. He killed kids from babies. He killed up to old people, black people, white people,

people, native people. He tried to create hatred in all of his kill the k k k k k k k k k k k k k k kkikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikikiki.. Like thi.. Like thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to to to to to to to to to to to thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to to to to to to to to to to thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the the the thean thean thean toean toean toean toean toean toean black people, white people, native people. He tried to create hatred in all of his killings. Like going into Atlanta in 1979-81 and killing 24 little black kids in the Atlanta child killings and Fram in Wayne Williams. He was the police. Hold on. Hold on. Are you trying to tell me that he, you're saying that Edward Wayne Edwards?

Is the original ISIS? You're saying that he did all those killing to the... You're telling me that Edward Wayne's Edwards killed all those kids in Atlanta. Is that what you're telling me? Yeah, he was actually arrested there in 1982 right after the trial of Wayne Williams. And he had been living with a Marietta Georgia police officer, which was a relative of his, and he was part of the task force.

He had a uniform, a Marietta Georgia uniform. And I got a picture of him with his arm around the captain of the Atlanta Police Department. Are you fucking serious? He was inside and he was trying to create hatred and all those kids were spread out in church parking lots, police parking lots, very public displays of ritual, a ritual killer and the killer was a white cop. And what happened with Williams? He went to jail for it? He still in. He's still in. Yeah, he's still in. I talked to him. I he, I try to to to to to to to to to to to to he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he try try try try he try he he he he he he he he he he he he he hea to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create to create he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he. He try try try try try try. He try try hea. He try. He hea. try hea. hea hea hea. he. He was try for it. He's still in. 34 years. Yeah, he's still in. I talked to him. I sent him a copy of Ed's book because Ed wrote a book. And in that book was the answers to all his murders, actually.

He named every city and state that he killed in his whole life in that book. Where can you get that book? Yeah, it's called Metamorphosis of a criminal. And it's two to three thousand dollars actually, some of those books. It was a 430-page puzzle written by the Zodiac in 1972. Oh, you're serious. He mentioned my hometown 30 times in it, and it turns out he was here when we had a horrible Zodiac killing in 1956. In Deer Lodge you mean? That book ended up being the answer to all his murders.

And I'll tell you this is a side note. I did a show in Deer Lodge one time, beautiful small town. Really? Yeah, really? I did a show there about two years ago. Yeah, he he he th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. to, thi. to to to to to thi. thi. to to to to to to to toe. toe? Yeah, thi. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. to to to to to to to to to to to the the the. the the. the thi. the thi. the. the. the. the the. t t toda. today. the toda. today, toe. toda. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. two years ago. Yeah he hated Deerlot's prison. At the time he was here in 56 to 59 it had no electricity it had no running water he was he hated it and so he he sought revenge on Montana and killed here throughout his life. So if he's so prolific in doing all this how can no one catch him? How is he free for so long? He was caught all the time for burglaries, robberies, arson, insurance fraud and he would immediately rat. He was an informant. Oh my

God. But what they didn't know is he would be, you know, in on a robbery and he'd say, hey man, I'll tell you about a murder and I know who did it and then he'd give the information that would match who we framed and they'd follow it and they'd arrest them and he'd be executed. There's people on death row right now there's at least 12 people sitting on death row serving life sentences that he framed that are still in. This is insane. Is this just your belief do you think and I'm not I'm just playing a little bit of devil's advocate? You know or do you is this widely held by more people than just you?

Well, you know, if people want to follow Eddard's life, they can do the work themselves. I put my book out which was, which just listed out the evidence of who he was. But he published his own books and his own albums and own websites, and all of this stuff that was puzzled. So if you want to follow it, anybody can do it, but officials do not want to follow it, because the liability that this man created is beyond anything that can be imagined, and we're having innocent people being executed that he framed, and they'd never want to admit it. And, you know, like in the Avery case, who's going to be sued as thued sued sued sued sued the the thued sued thued sued their thued, to be thued, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be, to be thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. to, to, to, to, to, to, th. So, th. So, th. So, th. So, thin, th th th th to, th to, toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. So, th. So, th. So, th. framed and they'd never want to admit it. And, you know, like in the Avery case,

who's being sued is, who's going to be sued is the cops? They're the ones with the deep pockets. Right. They're the ones that are going to have the money. You can't get money out of the old dead serial killer. What, um, final thoughts here real quick. What did he get convicted of? Was he put on death row and how do you finally die? Yeah, he pled guilty to a double murder in Wisconsin from 1980, found out he couldn't get the death penalty.

So he told him about a double murder in 1977 in Ohio, found out he couldn't get the death penalty. Then turned around and admitted the killing of Danny Boy Edwards in 1996. That's a 20-year span of killing. He got his death penalty. Gonna be mur- gonna be executed August 31st, 2011, and he died April 7th, 2011 of natural causes. My God.

Do you think he killed himself at the end? Yeah, and I think I might have assisted him. He was a diabetic. And he, all he wanted from me was a big case of candy. And so I sent him it, the kind that you can send in the prison, a big case a bit of honey. I have all these letters where he's just thanking me for that candy. And yeah, I really believe that he, he assisted in his own death because what he wanted was to be uncovered,

know that the puzzle was up, and then die. So in the end, he almost framed you a little bit. Oh, he was, that guy was messing with me and my friend. But it was scary. It was very scary for a time there. Well, you know what, man, I can't thank you enough. This was an amazing episode. Are you working on anything else right now that we should be looking for?

Yeah, there'll be a documentary coming out in six months. Wow. It's going to be called, it was him, the many murders of Ed Edwards. Oh my God. And then working on that for about a year and three months. Any other cases? Any other not not Edwards, Wayne Edwards, but other killers? Anything else you're working on?

I never want to meet another killer again. I respect that, dude. He was the worst mother ever and it's just like I just want to enjoy the mountains now. Well, I have one last question, is the case, Sam? Yeah. What would you say to like amateur sleuths who like, you know, because people are fascinated right now by murder and crime. I feel like it's at an all-time high.

Some people are actually emailing these people. That's why I've heard. Yeah, and that's me. The boyfriend, I definitely message that guy on Facebook. Really? Yeah. Undeniable, I just remembered, I forgot about it. That's where my psyche goes. And did he ever hit you back? No, he didn't hit me back. But what would you say to like, you know, just a couple of sluice that want to get out there and investigate some of these cases? You see a lot with these new podcasts and stuff that are happening? Do you recommend that is can that kind that, like they had that Tara Grinstead murder, that the guy was just, they have a series called Up and Vanished,

and he had gone through the entire case, and then it just spurned some interest in the community, and somebody else came forward and admitted to the killing. What do you say to like young sluice who want to get out there and kind of take things on in their own hands? Do it but be very careful and like in the case of Ed Edwards the evidence was always false steered to somebody else and if you look at it in that light then the evidence actually falls in place to you because Edwards always made sure it was out there so if you want to be a sleuth you can destroy a lot of innocent lives if you're not careful. Wow.

Well, John, thank you so much. Again, you can go to his website, coldcase Cameron.com. Always see all the stuff he's got going on. John, thank you so much for coming on the show. And you know, we really appreciate your time. And good luck with the Doc on Spike TV and hopefully we'll be able to have you back on soon to talk about the movie coming out. All right, thanks a lot.

Thanks so much, take care of my friend. Wow. Crazy, huh? Fascinating. Fucked up. Aren't you glad you came? Yeah, man, I mean, that's fascinating. I, dude, you gotta be honest here. I did not know you, you did all that crazy stuff. So do you think, let's be honest,

do you believe, and Aaron, this is where, with our guy who refuses to drink from the, the fountain of knowledge, do you think he put too much in Edwards, Wayne Edwards, like a Zodiac Killer, also deaf, famous cases in Atlanta. Thoughts, guys? That's a lot. That's a lot. I mean, shit. Yeah, I mean, the guy looks kind of lazy. He's not in shape. Like, how much... Well, when can you work? I mean, dude, you're a comic, you're a fucking hustler. Yeah. Like, the guy's, his comedy is killing. When does he have time to go work out? That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. That's. th. th. th. they. th. th. I. I. I. I. I. I's, th. I's, they. I's, th. I's, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. thea. thea. thea. to. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. thea. the. th comedy is killing when does he have time to go work out That's true. Hey dude I got to kill these kids at five I got himself this guy at nine

I haven't got time to hit Pilates dog I mean he's definitely going I got to go to kill at eight Yeah got to hit the drive-through on the way to the next killing yeah Yeah, I mean he's not he's not making time to work. Probably guy. Yeah. Yeah. I got a a the the the the the the the to to to to the the to the to the to the to the the the the to the to the to the the th one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. to. to. to. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. t. I. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t. t.'s not making time to work. Probably guy is hitting the drive through all the time. Got to eat another Big Mac because I got to be over here to fucking kill this kid. I don't got time for fucking home-cooked meals. I mean he put a lot on this guy and I mean I was as fascinated as fascinating to them. It is because of the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the amount the breadth of knowledge that he has. Talk to me about your emailing of these people. I never knew that about you. Yeah, well, I get on some of these things where it just seems obvious to me. And of course, I'm a victim of the information. Sometimes it's out there.

I mean, these things are presented in a in the mail when you were young, like the blue and white ones or the black and white ones? And it would just say 1,800 missing I think, and then they had two little pictures of somebody who was missing. I collected all those I remember growing up. So I had to say like every week they would come and I would just stack them, you know, I just had all these missing kids and I would look th. their their their their their their their their their.. their their. their, their, th. their, th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was just th. I was just th. I was th. I was just had their, their, th. I was just th. I was just their, and I was just their, and I was just their, and I was just their, and I was just their, and I was just their, their, their, their, I was just their, I was just their, I was just their, I was their, I was their, I was their, I was just th. I was just th. I was just th. I was just th. I was just th. I was just th. I was just th. I was just th. I was just th. I was just th. I was just, I was just th. th. th. thin, I was just thought maybe I'll see one of these kids, you know. So you've always been interested in solving crimes and doing sooth, sleuth stuff like that. Yeah, I found a couple. I was just talking about this in my podcast this morning. I found a peace sign in the wood sometimes part of somebody's hand had been cut off. When I was young and I found a peace sign. Like that. Fingers th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was thage. I was thage. I was thage. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was thi. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was th. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was thi. I was tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. I was th. I was th.. Like that. Fingers two and three. Two and three. Did you call the cops?

We told some man that ran this kind of sugar shack or kind of a lemonade cracker outlet. And he, um. That's a, that's a wide, it was a lemonade stand or a crack house. Yeah, I mean, it find a man who only has two fingers. Only has three two fingers or three fingers. Yeah my father was missing a finger. And then my mother used to watch them all we would watch together was unsolved mysteries and and America's miswings. Yeah I watched all the time. I am consumed I mean like the to new show on Netflix called the Keepers

you guys watch that yeah I mean like the do you watch that Aaron it's crazy it's crazy dude what people will do to other people how do you guys sleep because I hear that theme song from unsolved mysteries and I just like no changing the channel I don't think I've watched a full one his voice I feel the the they I for, well, you know what I do, dude, is one thing I'll tell you for sure, is that I keep my eye on everybody around me. Yeah. Because you're 999,000 times more likely get killed by somebody you know,

than somebody you don't know. So what questions would you have for people you know to try and, you know, get an inkling? I think people kill for passion, you know? Don't fuck people, don't fuck over people's men, women, they're significant others, don't steal from them. That seems to be what it is. I mean, even on a global scale, you know, it's like, people thi that because Washington D D.C. everybody's got suits on That they're like they're they're noble human beings. I don't compare the crack heads or

people on the end when you watch like the first 48 is like man. He'll me five dollars so I killed him. And you're like five bucks. Well, these guys are killing for trillions of dollars. It's all It's all fucking. It's all fucking. It's. It's. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. T. T. their. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. T. They's. T. T. They's. They's. They's. They's. They's. They's. They's. They's. They's. They's. They's. They's. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. They it's all about fucking owning the corner dude. Yeah some people's crack is some people's crack some people's crack some people's crack you know I just don't put myself in bad situations yeah I don't trust anybody I don't know and it doesn't be on bad person but I keep my eye on motherfuckers and dude every time you see somebody on TV they're like you know like you know like this guy was arrested for killing children and the next our neighbors were like, he was a nice guy. No, dude, look at him.

That guy's shady as fuck. Yeah. He looks like, if you look like a combination of meth and lots of cats, I know you're up to something. Yeah. White. Wight, but, but dude. But dude, more black guys are coming out. They called one black guy in Baton Rouge a while back. When I was in college, they had a, I just remembered this, when I was in college, they had

this BT, no it wasn't the BTK guy, it was this other guy, he was killing women. And he killed like three or four women in Baton Rouge over about a year, and then they finally caught him. But they're usually prostitutesutes, so prost prostuuuuuuu prostu prostu prostu prostu prostu. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, th, th, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, I, thus, thus, thus, thus, I thus, I th. th. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I this, I, I this, I this, I this, I this, I th. I th. I th. I thus, I thus, I thus, I thus, thus, thus, thi. thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thus, thi. thi. thi. I thi. I snatched. Leave the ladies alone. They just want to make you feel better. We have a black serial killer in LA. Yeah, I think we had two. I think we had two. But it's rare, I think. I mean, it's more, it's definitely been a white man's game over the years.

I do think it was a white man's game. It just seems like there's people just go on rampages man Do you think there's serial killers out there right now? Fuck yeah Fuck, there's like what they say at any time? There's like 50 serial killers in the United States What the fuck dude? There's people they even know about? Oh my god. I used to be a cable guy and I remember one time I was doing a cable installation and this guy was laying plastic down down at the end of the hallway and he had a hammer visible and I just walked out of the cable installation. I was like, oh hell no, I know what's about to happen.

Dude, creepers gonna creep broo. I don't put myself in those situations. Keep your head on a swivel. Have you ever thought'm honest man, I can't hurt anything. Yeah. I'm someone who's like, I can't take somebody's life. It's just not a little. I can't even do it. I had a spider living near me for like a week. It's web was all there.

And I'm like, hey, dude, you just keep those moths away. the way. Yeah, Sam had to talk to talk to talk to talk to talk to talk to to to to to to tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak. tak. tak. tak. I's tak. I's tak. I's tak. I's tak. tak. tak. tak. I tak. tak. I tak. I tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak. I tak. I tak. I'm tak. tak. tak somebody tak. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. ta. I tak someone that I used to like love. He was like, man, you're better than that, kill him with success. He used to want to be on the record with that shit. That will come back and haunt you. So I stay on a silver lake, so you know. Yeah, I feel you man. In the old age you could kill easy, man. You know.

I worry about the accidentalthem, they fall, and then they're dead. To have to George President, the guy didn't die, but the dude fell and hit his head and he was like in a coma. And then like a year later the guy saw him on like K-Loco or some shit and he got fucking popped. Yeah, dude. I don't know. I walked to earth, dude. I don't want to cause problems. I to cause problems problems problems the problems problems to cause problems the problems problems the problems to cause problems the their to cause problems their to to their to to their their to to their to their to the earth dude. I don't want to cause problems, I don't want to be, you know, it's like... I just want to catch some of these murderers, man. I've always wanted to find, you know, more of a dead body than I found when I was young

and I've always wanted to catch, you know, find a murderer. You're such an innihmaer. They call me on the show The Filthy Onion, because it just layers, but you truly are. One of the most layered individuals I've ever met my life. And that's why you're so fucking funny. What are you working on because we gotta go? I know you gotta get out here. Um, I'll be coming up in some cities. I'll be in New York, June, 23rd, the same that. Who even runs that? Dude, how you have to do is ask, I'm out there then? June? In June?

Yeah, at 23rd, it's the same weekend. I'll be at Gotham. Is there any way I could do a guest spot? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Thank you, dude. You're welcome. I would love that. So, uh, so Sam will be. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. th. th. th. th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's the the the the the the the the the th. It's the th. It's th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. theea. theea. theea. the. the. the. th to refurbish a theater out there, and that's in rural Illinois on the 30th of June. And then July 7th and 8th, I will be in Nashville at Zanis and I really need some support for those shows. It's my first time there. Dude, you are by far my favorite comic. I very rarely watch somebody that makes me thee, I'm very rarely watch. thrown. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. the. thi. thi. thi. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I'm, the th. I'm, the. I'm, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, th. I, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the thi. I, the. I, the. I, the. the. the. the. thea. thea. toea. t t tea. teuuu. teu. thu am a phony at this, but you put me in that one show that you did in the belly room, and you were just on fucking fire, and it just pushed me to like,

I gotta write more, gotta write harder, got it right faster, and I think you're wonderful, I know you're super slamming, and I appreciate you coming in, I know you gotta get out of here. So, uh, so happy your YouTube's blowing up, dude. I appreciate it. It's fucking great. Well, you inspire me to start doing it, you know? So I appreciate the inspiration. And it's picking up, dude.

You're doing it right. I throw so much shit on my YouTube. I gotta pull it back a little bit. Yeah. I do really love this new thing I'm doing called called called called, which I find to be the most vapid form of entertainment. And I put political messages over it. Oh, that's great. So it's like, I'll send you a link.

It's fucking the best. And I'm, I know a guy might sponsor that. It works to the libertarian party. They're always looking for unique ways to get them because they want me to get the naughty show going again. Yeah. And fuck talk about them, go to his porno shoot, just get the fucking girls twirking, get that booty meat slapping while I give them what's really going out. Ross for Roe. Ross for Roe. Roth, Roe.

Final thoughts, Ryan. If you ever need a gimp for those, man. Yeah, he bleached thaw he's asshole. Oh yeah, yeah, I saw bits and bits of that. Aaron, any thoughts? This was fun. This was a good one. Aaron's slowly coming around, fought everything the whole time. But now he's into it, he gets it. Good luck on your podcast.

Your podcast are both great. I've fucking room for you. I love you too, Sam. Thank you. Guys, we'll see you on the other side. Next week, we're working on, we're working on Freeway, Ricky Ross. We're working on Freeway, Ricky Ross. to the podcast. Rook the today, Rook their book. Guys, if you want Ricky Ross, hit him up, dude.

A couple of you guys. Wow. This is awesome. It's all about conspiracies, man. It's amazing.