Tin Foil Hat With Sam Tripoli - Tin Foil Hat Ep 9: Crack Money With Dayvid Figler

Episode Date: March 9, 2017

Thank you for tuning into another fun episode of Tin Foil Hat with Sam Tripoli. On this episode I interview slam poet superstar and defense attorney Dayvid Figler about the infamous Vegas DA's "Pay for Witness Testimony" scandal that rock the legal system in Sin City. This interview was incredible to do and I hope you enjoy listening! Please rate and review on iTunes and help spread the word about Tin Foil Hat!

And welcome to another episode of Tinfoil Hat. I'm very excited for this episode. Real quick, the Diabolical, my 2-Diss CD is now, is about to drop next Friday, March 17th. Two-Dis, you've heard about it, one hour of power, second hour is called Friday Night Late Show, in which I battle drunk people and just do crowdwork the whole time and the movie Dying Laughing is critically acclaimed it's available on all video on demands across the board iTunes Google Play Amazon all them check it out and hopefully it will be on Netflix very soon I'm hoping and I just shot the TV show with them so that is that. Thank you for your guys support for this podcast.

I am very excited. I'm back in Las Vegas and I'm doing comedy out here. This is where I'm starting. I'm reconnecting with some of my old friends from way back in the day. And this, my guest today is attorney David David Figler. Welcome, David. David, you and I used to do stand-up way back. You were more of a poet, you were a very famous. You were more of a comedian, and I was more of a guy who talked to the curiosity of the crowd.

But you were like a world, almost world recognized spoken word. I did something that was regrettably referred to as slam poetry back in the days and I am recovered from that now. Oh no, no, no, with the time and perspective I realized just how amazingly horrible that whole thing is. That whole world is? Yeah, I don't know if you've ever sat through one of those but it's fairly excruciating. I mean you know now and again a little gem of a personal come but a lot of it is. There seems like there's a

lot of crying and elitism to get like a lot of like there's a lot of complaining yeah and identity is very important and it's very personal and earnest and sincere and a tear comes at exactly that same point every time it's just you know it's it's what is the what is the pinnacle of that career is well it was a HBO deaf poetry jam so Russell Simmons had that show for many many seasons and most deaf and all these guys would go on that and it would just be you know the the the top slam poets of the day and and don't get me wrong the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to the the the the to the the the the the the to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tod. tod. tod. tod. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. today. the. the. today. We would do shows, we would have combined shows, whether it was an open mic or a present, and you were excellent, dude. You were, I'm sure if you really wanted it, you could have done so you were an excellent writer, but you're a lawyer and... Right, a little distracting as a career.

But it's, you're not just a lawyer, you're, I remember you, I think, towards the end, when I, you know, I saw you for the last couple times before I moved you just became a death penalty boy defending defendants and death penalty yeah I did that for six years where people who were accused of murder and the the state in Nevada was seeking to execute them if they were found guilty as the penalty those were my cases I defended those people and those people were all indigent, so it was part of a public defender system. No, and that's wonderful of you. I'm very much, obviously everybody knows the making of a murder and all that stuff and

the attorneys involved in that and just what you must see and what they go through thrown thu. what they go through is just nuts. Yeah absolutely so you know we went through a lot of different stuff over the years and then I for a short time I was a Las Vegas Municipal Court judge. I did that for a short while I was appointed by our what's a good word our festive mayor Oscar B. Goodman. Yes. During a bout of what I will call festivity, yes, fueled festivity. And so he made me a judge for about a year. So I went from death penalty cases to downtown.

Were you happy with that? I mean, I know by the judge is a, yeah, I know it's an easier gig, but it was the lowest level judge. I mean, it was the bottom tier that there is no judge less empowered than the municipal court judge.. So. So. So. to. to. to. to. to to to to to th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the thi, the the the thi, thi, the the the the the the the the the the the thi, the the thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to to to thi. to to the thi. to the the thi. thi. thi, thi, thi, thi, tier that there is no judge less empowered than the municipal court judge. So I went from doing death penalty cases where, you know, sometimes I had a quadruple homicide, and then there were two backup homicides behind that, and now I'm looking at a dog-off leash, I'm looking at a prostitute who's trading beers for blow jobs, that sort of things. That does happen, right? That does happen. That is not a wife's town. A woman in my house got arrested for offering BJs for chicken nuggets. There you go. It's just like it can't be that great.

Or it's really great. Value-wise. Yeah, pound for pound if you were. Yeah. So real quick. What was the weirdest case as a judge you heard? The weirdest case and this is one I still get shit from from from my colleagues since now I'm back in the fold as a lawyer again and they they always give me crap on this because I did I wound up finding the guy guilty so that's the punchline but I didn't give him any time and and so this is a guy he was wheelchair bound. Okay. And he had had just just th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I thi th. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. te. te. te. te. te. te. the. the. the. the. the. th. th. th. th. the. the. th any time. And so this is a guy, he was wheelchair bound. And he had just hit a kino ticket at the Western Hotel, which is no longer there is one of the dive hotels that had been there since the... Probably an hourly. You can get it for hourly.

Well, it was a hotel. It was a casino, right? So he had just one money at the casino and he was a former veteran and he was in his wheelchair and he had his he had his gambling winnings in his pocket heavy-sec guy older guy and he was cruising down his wheelchair down Fremont Street which at the time was somewhat of an unsavory journey at least certainly had its pitfalls we were there last night yeah so it's a little more cleaned up now but you know so he's driving down down and driving down his motorized wheelchair and he runs into a lady who engages him in conversation.

The next thing you know, she's on his lap on the motorized wheelchair and they are headed towards a neighborhood motel to do the exchange of money for pleasure. And as the secret words get stated over her hidden microphone, she was an undercover cop and out come the vice and they arrest the guy. So he demands on, now he was offered a sweetheart deal, you know, nobody really wants to prosecute a veteran in a wheelchair for soliciting prostitution. Right, so Sergeant Dan. Yeah, right, right.

So, uh, where are your legs? So, uh, he decided instead of taking the plea bargain from the, from the prosecutor that he was going to take this to trial. So, his defense is, yes, I solicited her for sex for money and yes everything she just testified to is under cover top is 100% true and yes I confess it then and yes I confess it now but I'm a veteran and god damn and I deserve a little pussy when I win a little money. That was his defense that's a brilliant defense. It's a. It's a different. It's a veteran. It's a veteran. It's a veteran. It's a th. It's a th. th. th. th. th. th. I. I. I. I. I. I. I th. I'm a th. I'm a th. I'm a th. I'm a th. I'm a th. I s. I s. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit I solicit I solicit I solicit I solicit I solicit I solicit I solicit I solicit I s. I s. I s. I s. I I s. I I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I'm. I. I. I. I. I'm. I'm a. I'm a. I'm a. I'm a. I s. I s. I s. I s. I s. I s. I s. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I solicit. I'm a. I'm a. I'm a. I'm a little money. That was his defense. It's a brilliant defense. It is a difficult. It's jump on the sword, would that be or just that's just throw yourself, well, it's not

even throw yourself on the mercy of court. He was basically saying, seriously, take a step back, young man, recognize your elders, and the service that I did for this country to keep freedom so you could have your job and give me a pass here because come on and so you know I'm like look you know I'm sworn uphold the law you've confessed to the crime you have zero defense to the crime everything you're saying is very very interesting but completely irrelevant I have to find you guilty but I am going to find you $10 and and he begrudgingly paid the $10 and then the case was done it was close forever I got shit from my colleagues in the defense bar like how could

you how could you throw a poor veteran in a wheelchair in prison for five years and I was like you know that I find him $10 they're like ten years in prison for just wanting to have a nice time, probably his last day on earth and you denied him, you know, and so I got a lot of- It's gotta be hard though, you're like, I get it, it's just it was just one of my funnier situations. I mean, a guy was adamant. I mean, he just looked at me and it's like I absolutely did it and now you need to find out their the to find to find to find to find to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find out. to find to find to find to find to find to find to find to find to find to find to find to find to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to find to find to find to find to find to find to find out. to find out. to their. their. their. their their their their their their their their their th. thi. thi. thi. their thi. the the thi. the the thi. their to thi. to to to their to their th crimes again? I don't think he's still with us. That I think he was living a fairly edgy life back then. I mean you know. You can't you can't live on Keenow wins alone. He was a bad shape. We'd all be living like that. Sure. Now I remember when you got the job and I asked you about defending people that maybe you know did it.

Sure and how hard is that. And you had something, it's like you said something. you, you you, you you, you you, you the the job. You you, you the job. You you, you you, you the job, you the job, you the job, you the job, you the job, you the job, you you, you th. You you, you th. You you, you th, you th. You th. You th. You you you, you th. You you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you th. You, you, you th. You, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you the the the the the the the the the the the th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You th. You can can't, you th. You can't th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. You can't th. You can't thi, you can't thi, you can did it and how hard is that and you had something it's like you said something very smart and I always believe it's like everybody has the right to a fair trial and did that ever run did you ever go oh man I'm like defending this guy that has committed these horrible crimes not not the wheelchair tend, you know, sex, but like like, no wheelchair sex, it's a gift for everybody, but the crimes being committed, you know, like let's say a quadruple homicide. Sure. Was there any reservations defending these people? Well, you know, the other side of the equation is

that we all need to know that the system works, right? So if it's just one side presenting it or if you're guilty unless you could prove that you didn't do it, that sort of thing, that's not American. That's where we need to worry that people are being quit in prison that don't belong there. Now, that happens sometimes no matter what, but because we have this adversary system. the the the the the the the the the the the the thiauapapapapierierierierier. the the the the the the the the the the the the the thee. the thee. thee. thee. thee. the thee. the their thi. thiolomeaqqqqqqqqqqis. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. thi. thi. their. their. their. their. their is is is their is their is their is their is their is their is their is their their thi. thi. thi. thia. thia. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea. tea.? So I would want the prosecutor, no matter how hard or easy their case is, to have the best defense attorney on their side, pulling whatever trick they got. Because if a case can withstand any attack from the smartest guys and the jury still finds that person did it beyond a reasonable doubt, we could all go

to bed knowing that in all likelihood. It worked. That happened. And you know, if they can't then, you know, maybe there's a problem with that case and maybe that's because the guy was innocent or didn't do exactly what is being said to do. So that's a major part of it. That's how we all can sleep at night. The other part though is that sometimes when you know a guy did something like he actually took the person's life, right. It's not about whether

he did it or didn't do it, whether he's going to get cut loose or not, but how much is the right amount of time? Is it 40 years? Is it 20 years? Is it death? Is it a theat. Is it a manslot or is a murder? Is it the th a th a th a man a man a m th. Is it a man a murder? Is it th. Is it th. Is it th. Is it th. th. th. th. th. th. th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It's not th th th th that? It that th th th th th th th th th th th that th th that th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's not th. It's not thi. It's not that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi a lot of nuance in there that most people don't really understand because for a lot of people... It doesn't fit in a law and order. Well, it's black and white for most people, right? You did the crime, you're going to do all the time, and people get very offended if people don't get thrown away forever, but there's a lot of different considerations. There's a big thing going on in Nevada, th, and actually, and actually, and actually, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, th, th, th, th, to, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, their, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, the the crime before their 18th birthday and oftentimes before their 16th

birthday, commit some sort of weird crime, murder, whatever, under unusual circumstances, you're just a kid. In the day, they got the book thrown at them, you're going to be in prison for the rest your life, you know, and so now you're caging people for like 70 years, you know, and so they said you can't do that, their their the can't do that the states are saying you that it just seems in human Because the brain is still developing and they're a kid in the circumstances are always going to be unique and and and so now they? their the circumstances are always going to be in for life and so and so now this other stuff, but you know, it's a it's a debate wea that. the the thr that. that. that. thr-it, thr-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-it-I's thr-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin's thininininininininininininin, thininin't thin't thin't thin. I don't understand why not and all this other stuff. But you know, it's a debate. It's not really a debate, more of a dialogue.

Yes. People just don't want to bother with it. It's important. It is. And people. Although there are some bad people out there too who probably need to be caged. But people also think. It's not the person is accused something didn't do it. That does happen. And they do get convicted and like it's a reason why I'm anti-death

penalty in an idealistic world where only the guilty are found guilty and there's this notion they should die. And only the worst of the worst at that. That's so subjective. Right, right. So that's okay but we found that that isn't the instance and that people have been prosecuted and convicted even though people might know they, the prosecution might know they're not guilty. And that's why I'd rather a million guilty guys do life in prison or a certain amount to, then convict and kill an innocent person. You can't reverse. Right. And you know, and that actually folds in some of the stuff we were talking about before where, you know, if somebody is convicted, the convicted, the convicted, the convicted, the the the the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thin, thi, thin, thin, thin, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. th. th, th, th, th, the prosecution, the prosecution, the prosecution, the prosecution, the prosecution, the prosecution, the prosecution, the prosecution, the prosecution, the pr, the pr the the the the thi, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, the proooooooo. And, their the prov. And, the prosecution, the actually folds in the some of the stuff we were talking about before where you know if somebody is convicted and it later turns out that the prosecution was withholding some evidence or something like that and it's like well maybe they are guilty but did they get a fair trial shouldn't the jury have heard all the information not just the information that the prosecution wanted them to hear. which is another reason why defense attorneys the the the the they. I I I I I I I I I I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the the the the. the the. the the. the the. the the. th. th. th. th. the is. the is. th. th. the the the the the the pro. the pro. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the pro is is is the pro is the pro is the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. thro. the. the the tre. the tru. the the the the the the tru. the the the thro. thro. the as they can. And I've had my fights over the years where I've tried to get information about what's

really going on in a case. And sometimes, if you don't mind the segue, it gets into the realm of conspiracy. Which is great, which is what we're talking about here. Now this is an interesting episode because most of my episodes have been, hey man, there's proof that this existed. We don't have 100% proof, but if you, the dots start connecting, aliens are here, Pettigates here, or Paul McCartney really isn't the real Paul McCartney. We've done that stuff, but this is an interesting case in which there was a belief that conspiracy was going on, and that it was almost, it was proven that it was going on and that it was almost it was proven that it was

going on still remains a mystery still remains a mystery at the headlines and the headlines and the headlines and the headlines the headlines are the the. So let's get into this you was this death penalty cases or were these just like regular cases and real quick before just a quick why did you become a defense attorney over becoming a prosecutor? Oh that's that's uh it's an interesting question. cases and real quick before just quick why did you become a defense attorney over becoming a prosecutor? Oh that's it's an interesting question. Oh the better question is why did you become a lawyer instead of any sane job yeah where you can sleep regular hours? Did you love to show law and order you're like

just gonna be hot chicks actually that would be more around LA law time? Okay yeah yeah Corbin. Yeah Corbin. Yeah. Getting it getting it? Yeah so so yeah. Yeah or maybe the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's. It. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's that. It's that's that. It's that's that's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's th. It's that's that's th. It's that's that's that's that's th. It's th. It's th. Actually, that would have been more around LA Law Time. Okay. Yeah, Corbyn, Burson, getting it, getting it. Yeah, so yeah, or maybe the guy who was a little developmentally challenged on that show, it might have been named Lenny. Yeah, yeah, you remember that guy. Yeah, wasn't really in real life. It was an actor. He was acting. He was a guy. He was acting. He was. He was. He was acting. He was acting. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was a. He was. He was. He was a. He was. He was. He was a. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was a. He was a. He was a the the the guy. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a. He was a the. He was a the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the guy. He was a the guy. He was a the guy. He was a the guy. He was a the guy. He was. He probably went to school for acting and that's what he got. And then maybe a little Allie McBill thrown in there. That's what we had back then.

I love it. I love it. Sure. So who wouldn't want to get into that? It was really a default for me. I just want to make my parents happy. You know, it seemed like if you could get paid paid to to get paid to get paid, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, the, the, the, the, the, the, I, I, the, that, that, I, I, I, I, I, I that, I that, I that, I that, I, I that, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th... than, than, that, that, that, that, that, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's that's that's, that's thickets yes uh... then that would probably be a decent pathway and you could always veer off that path whenever you need to i didn't realize it was more of a a guarded path there's there's border patrol on that path and they do not let you

get too far away the laws they say is a very jealous mistress yeah they say that interesting yeah so uh... it was kind of a default and then I wanted up doing criminal law. I was representing a union that was accused of fire bombing, scab laborer. It was a big strike and dispute. Where was this? In Vegas, in Henderson, Nevada, in the early 90s. And you know, I didn't know what to do with the FBI was raiding the offices and so I called a very seasoned experienced criminal lawyer who I knew of but didn't really know he was very very helpful. We wound up hiring him as co-counsel to take care of the case and then when that was done he offered me a job and I took it and that started me on the pathway

to do in criminal defense and I never really looked back. Was there ever a time a time a time time time time time time time time time time time the time the time the time the time the time the time the time thi thi thi the time thi thi. thi. to thi. to to be to be to be to be to be to be to be the to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be to be. I the th. I th. I was to be to be to be to be the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. I was th. th. I th. th. I th. I thi. I thi. I thi. I to thi. I to thi. I was thi. I was the. I was the. I was thean. I was toean. I was thean. I was toean. I was thean. I was the an the. I was thi. Was there ever a time that you thought maybe I might be into beam prosecution? Yeah, actually it's funny. I when I was in law school, that seemed to be a better pathway, you know, but things happen as they do. I actually wrote a little memoir available on Kindle for one book. Oh, snap. Push it. What is it?

I probably forget what it's called. It's, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, uh, th, I, I, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, thi. It, was, thi. thi. It's, th. the. It's, thi. We. It's, th. th. th. th. th. It's, called. It's, well, so I was representing the people who inherited the rights or purchased the rights to the movie Deep Throat. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. Right. So that was a, it's still owned by a husband and wife in Las Vegas. They wound up with it. And so I thought it would be a really interesting story to talk about how I represented them and how I came to doing that. And part of that journey.

Deep throat to porno, not Watergate. Right. And so, yeah, I wound up starting out in my career learning about pornography and stuff, prosecuting cases. Did you have to watch a lot of porn to really get to understand your... I had to watch the sickest, twisted butternut squash porn that we were prosecuting. So the book is called No Kids, No Skat, No Piss, a First Amendment love story. That's true. 9 9 cents, No Scat, No Piss, a First Amendment love story.

That's true story. 99 cents, Sam, that's an investment. That's amazing. So it really just tells the story of how at one point I want to be a prosecutor and I'm in this room watching guys fucking chickens, watching fat ladies' shit and skinny guys mouths, and I'm categorizing every act because we're prosecuting this guy who was the West Coast porn king, the guy named Ruben Sturman. And what years this? Oh, this would have been in 1980, uh, 89?

they-989? Somewhere around there? Yeah. And so we were, we were prosecuting him and I was categorizing all this just sick, fucking twisted porn. And- Did you get it out of your head when you went home no no no once you seen a guy fuck a chicken spoiler alert the chicken loses you can never purge that concept of of interspecial relations from your mind I mean you know ladies with large

farm animals just the whole thing it exists out there in the world, but before the internet, you would go into a run-in-the-mill porn store, a video store, or you know, they even have super-aids and stuff like that. You'd know the secret word to the to the pimply clerk and he would let you into the back room where you'd get the secret stock and the secret stock was all this like really taboo and oftentimes illegal stuff. You know everything from what you'd expect in the most foul and disgusting of heinous acts against people who should not be involved in heinous acts. I get you. And then you know bestiality and stuff like that. So I happen to be dealing with the bestiality and the scat stuff you know because at the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the.... And. And then. And then. And then. And then. And then. And then. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And.. And........................ And. And.. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. And. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. So I happen to be dealing with the bestiality and the scat stuff, you know, because at the time the concept was that you could prosecute obscenity,

that, you know, the First Amendment allowed those type of prosecutions and, you know, doing it in Las Vegas was an interesting challenge because it's the community standards. And so what are the community standards of Las Vegas when it comes to, you know, sheep fornication. So, you know, it was an interesting case. And ultimately, the guy wound up going to prison, but not necessarily in the obscenity charges, and then he escaped from prison, and he wound up dying in prison, the whole thing. But this started me on a pathway that ultimately led

to both representing the original producer of Green, of Deep Throat, and then ultimately, the husband the husband the husband the husband the husband the husband the husband the husband thii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, and the, thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and thi, and tho, and tho, and tho, and the, and thi, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, thi, and, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the, the, the, thean, thean, thean, thean, thean, thi. thean, thi. thean, thi, thi, thi, thi, and throat and then ultimately the the husband and wife who wound up buying it and and so it's an interesting little tale and then it talks about my flirtation with being a prosecutor but no I've been a defense attorney essentially non-stop except for the judicial diversion for a better part of 20 years now. It's amazing. Yeah so So as a defense attorney, you must run into some prosecutors who it is almost more important to win the case than to be right and have justice prevail. Is that possible? I mean, not saying everyone you work with or anything like that,

but there are Kate prosecutors out there who just worry about their records and do they care more about winning than doing right? I have my theories on it, but like any other large organization that involves, that's a public agency. There's going to be good people, there's going to be bad people, that's a public agency, there's going to be good people, there's going to be bad people, there's going to be people who are motivated by self-interest in moving up the ladder. There's going to be other people who take their job very serious. You know, ultimately it can't matter to me.

Whether I got the nicest guy on the other side who's just refuses to look at the at the case in any way other than the way that serves their self-interest. I've done it all and it doesn't matter when I when when a case doesn't work out ultimately it's always the guy or the gal who is in the position to accept or reject any offer that comes away if they think it's fair they they take it if they don't think it's fair the the the their their that comes their way if they think it's fair they take it if they don't think it's fair they don't hopefully that's how it works sometimes people take it out of fear sometimes people take it knowing that they did worse it just really depends on circumstance but that's always

the the huge decision right but when it goes to trial I don't care if I got the nicest guy or the shiistrives is is is is is is is is is the the the the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their is is is is is is is is is their their their their their I I their is is is is is is is is is is is is is is their I I I I their their their their their their their their their their their is is is is is their their is is is their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their te is te. te. te. te. te. te. try. the the the the the the the the the their their their t it's all about challenging the case. Is there a reason, is there a motivation for the people to be giving false testimony? That's always what it comes down to. I don't care, you know, you could break down a case any way you want. Is the information that's being presented to the jury truthful and accurate, that usually supports the prosecution. If it's untruthful or inaccurate or incomplete, oftentimes that favors the defense. And that's always the battle, no matter what, any case. So the biggest case of murder, down to the smallest case of drug possession, whatever, if a person is, made it to the trial and they're making these accusations. If true, there is a certain pathway to a conviction, to a conviction, the, thoe, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thee, tho, thee, thee, the, the, th is a certain pathway to a conviction every single time. So our job is to say, why would that person be lying?

Why is the cop not being accurate? What didn't the cop do? Why is this witness saying this when this contradicts what my client says, that sort of thing? So that's what cross-examination is all about. You do. That's what it is. questioning everything. So and that brings us back to this one case that started on this essentially so I was looking back the case was in 2009 so this is really an eight-year adventure. Is that considered back in the day? Back in the day sure just slightly back in the day.

But an eight-year adventure where we still don't have the answer and it's still being litigated and there are still journalists trying to find out the true answer on how th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. I th. I th. I th. I the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I I I I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm thi. I'm thi. I'm thi. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. therying to find out the true answer on how it happened that this unique situation or what we thought was unique situation was really possibly widespread and could possibly be behind hundreds of people wrongfully in prison to this day. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. So you kind of before we started you kind of gave me a little taste of it and I loved it but where do we begin? So we could start in 2009. I had a case it was a non-murder case but it was still a serious offense. It was a guy who was accused of trolling the the poor

parts of town, luring guys into a car with use of a prostitute. And then once he got in the car, it was a jack situation. They would rob them. They would hold them at gunpoint, force them to go to the ATM, force him to withdraw all the money that the ATEAM, get their cards and stuff, and then they would leave them on them them them them them them them them them them them them them the money that the 18 would allow, get their cards and stuff, and then they would leave them on the side of the road, right? So I guess the thought was that if you did this, who would report?

I was trying to get a prostitute. Yeah, you know. So it's a lower risk of reporting, I would think, for those particular criminals, and so this was something that was happening or allegedly happening in some of the poor neighborhoods in Las Vegas and I wound up with one of these cases as a as a defense attorney and I represented this guy his name was Thad Aubert or as we called him Fat Albert but he wasn't fat. It just sounded like it. Yeah. So it was just funny for us at the time. You got to find humor wherever you can't. Don't you. Sam is that. Is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the. the the. the. the. the. the. the. the the. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tol. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. tol. to. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. tip. I. I. was just funny for us at the time. You gotta find humor wherever you can. Don't you, Sam? Isn't that true? Sam, isn't that? True, would you agree with that?

Yeah. I could get a green eggs and ham right there when we just move out. So we're defending this case and of course the key witness here is the prostitute, the one who lured the guy th. th. th. th. thuuukekekeke. thusegue guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy guy the guy guy the guy the guy the guy. the guy. the the the to to the to the the the to to the the the guy. to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to too.. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. the. the the the the the the true. the the the true. the true. the true. gone AWOL. And initially she had testified in an earlier proceeding that it went down the way that the prosecution said, that she was part of this lure and that the guy pulled out the gun and all sort of stuff and he's like, she's full of shit, da da da da. But now she's disappeared. Now, now we can't find her. And I won't say that it was it was prevalent because it really wasn't but you know there are a lot of these cases over the years over the decades where you know this is the the situation where the guy said that's

absolutely not true. I don't know why she would say that or more likely don't worry she's going to say exactly the way I say it. She's my alibi she's's going to back me up and then they show up and then they bury it. It's a completely different story. This happens all the time and you just scratch your head. You're like, God, my client was so confident that that the witness was going to testify on their favor and then the next thing you know they're digging the grave and putting the dirt on to the the the the the the the the the dirt on the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their their their their their their the next thing you know, they're digging the grave and putting the dirt on top of it. And so it's a little crazy. So this is always in the back of our mind. So we tracked and we have an investigator. So this is 2009, we have an investigator.

He's combing the streets. He hears word before anyone else. Is he a private investigator? You as a defense lawyer will hire private investigators to go out out. to to to to to to to to to to to th. And th. And th. And th. And th. And th. th. the th. the the th. thi. the thi. the the thi. thi, it's a thi, it's a their, it's a their, it's a their, it's a their, it's a their it's a their it's a their it's a their it's a their it's a their it's, it's, it's a their it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a their, it's a their, it's a their, it's a their, it's a their, it's a their, it's a their their thi. It's a little thi thi. It's a little thi thi. It's a little investigator you as a you as a defense lawyer will hire private investigators to go out and find some stuff for you. Yeah absolutely. And so when that happens, they come up with information. They come up with information. You know, they've got their sources on streets very Rockford file.

Yeah, right. Is that a good reference? I love it. I love it. I'm trying to think th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. Is th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the defense. As a the defense. As a the defense. As a the defense. As a the defense. As a the defense. As a the defense. As a the defense. As a the defense. the defense. the defense. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the defense. the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. th. their defense lawyer. their defense lawyer. th. their defense lawyer. their defense lawyer. their their the the the that a good reference? Yeah, I love it. Okay. I'm try and think of a, is there a modern day? I don't know if there's nothing, there's Castle. I think that was the closest. It's just too, way too good looking people for their job. More Rockford than Magnum. Yeah, that was just you know, I'm at the lue. Yeah, must must. Yeah. the mustache. the mustache. the mustache. the mustache. the mustache. the mustache. the mustache. the mustache. th. th. th. the mustache. th. th. th. th. th. th. their. th. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. there's. there's. Is. there's. there's. Is. Is there's. Is there's. Is there's. Is. Is there's. Is. Is. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. Itins. Higgins. Right. So, just Higgins. That's just my catchphrase now. I like you.

Higgins! Yeah, have it. Randomly. So he's like, she's in jail right now. They just picked her up for something. She's in the- Probably prostitution. Well, maybe. Whatever it was, she was and you got a small window to go over an interviewer.

So I took my partner, law partner, and we went over there and we looked up this gal. Her name was Rod Kisha. Rod Kisha. I actually pulled up a picture Rod Kisha. Oh, snaps! Yeah, she's a blondeie. I'll get that link from you. I love that look. All right. Rok Kisha. She's got that kind of like, yeah, I got. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I that. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. took. I took. took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I took. I tookthat link from you. I love that look. All right. Rakeisha. Yeah, she's got that kind of like, yeah, I got busted. That's her mug shot. Yeah, well, you know when you're smiling in your mug shot, that's not the first mug shot you've ever taken.

Right. So, so we walk hey, hey, hey, can you talk to us? And she's like, well, I need to get paid. Now I've heard that before, you know, people were like, you know, and of course being ethical attorneys, right? We're like, well, we can't pay you. You're a witness, you know, and she's like, well, the other attorney paid me?" And we're like, what other attorney paid here? She goes, well, the prosecutor in this case gave me cash to testify the way she wanted me to testify at that last proceeding. Oh my God. So, you know, I look at my partner, he

looks back at me, and we're like, yeah, right. So tell us more about how this prosecutor, and she's a little out of it, She just got picked up off the street, maybe still a little under, still a little high. So tell us all about this. She goes, well, I'm at my house, and then this guy comes, nice guy from the prosecutor, he says, I'm here to take you to the prosecutor's office. He's their investigator, he works for the government. He shows me his badge.

I say, OK, OK. So I go in the car with him, and he drives me to the prosecutor's office. We go up the building. I go through all the mail detectors with this guy. Nobody's stopping me. No one say anything. So it's totally legit. I am the prosecutor, I'm prosecuting Fat Albert. And then I say, okay, well, what are we gonna talk about?

She goes, well, look, I just want you know, first of all, I'm gonna give you money. I've got the money right here, it's in my drawer. I just need you to say that you saw the guy with the gun, that he held up the guy, was going to kill him. I need to tell me all the stuff. She's telling us the story, right? Then she reaches in her drawer. She pulls out 50 bucks. She goes, okay, that's 25 for coming here. Here's 25 for your cab.

And she winks because she knows, I got driven there by the guy. And then I left. Yes. She goes, well, I had to go to court the next day, and I got 50 bucks in my pocket, so I bought as much crack as I could get with that 50 bucks. Which is a lot of crack. Right, she goes, it lasted me through the next day. Oh, Jesus. So we're like, so in your story, you showed up high to court and made that, she goes, oh, absolutely, you know, you throw a pork chop and from from, you....... they, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, the, the, the, th. th. th. th. throw, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, the, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thr. to. to. to. to. thr. thr. thr. thr. thr. th. th. th. th. th. And so she said I used the government's cash for drugs, and then I testified the way they wanted me to.

Oh my God. And then they gave me another 25 bucks after I was done. And then I haven't talked to anybody since until you guys showed up. That was her story. Oh my God. So it's pay for play almost in a weird way. Well that's what she's telling us, right. Our bullshit radar, yeah, off the charts like. Can't, I mean there's an old saying,

don't trust a crackhead. There is that old saying. I didn't know you went to law school. That's a, yeah, that's an ancient case. That's from the learned justice hand. Yeah, I th, I I I I I I I was, I th, I th, I th, I th, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th. th. than, than, thi, thi, that, that, tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th, th, th, th, th, th. th. th, th, th. th, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. thean, thea. that's, the, that's, the, the the the the thea. the, the, the, the one who first coined that. Yes, you got it. So yeah, man, so we're like just looking at each other and it's just like, so on the drive, so we leave her there and you know, she'll want to talk to us. She just said, you know, she said to us that she didn't tell the truth and she said she did it for the crack money that the prosecutor had........

the prosecutor had in her desk drawer when she went over there. So we're driving back to our office. I wonder if that's in the, when they write their budget, is that on their crack money? Funny you should ask that question because that answer has not yet been stated on any official record. All right. But we'll get to that punch line, hopefully as quick as we can. So the bottom line is that we are completely and th th th th th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi that thi thi the thi the thi that we are completely thi thi thi the thi that we are thi that we are that we are that that that that that to that punchline hopefully as quick as we can. So the bottom line is that we are completely and utterly convinced that this girl was so high that she just made up this ridiculous

story trying to get us to give her money. Right. That was it. You don't want to believe it. Well that's the reason right. Why else would you make up a story like that unless you were just trying to con us. I mean she's a street gal. She's on the street, she's running whatever she needs to run to get a little money. She wants me to put some money on our book. She wants to, you know, maybe help her get out of jail. Whatever the story is, she's got motivation to give us this bullshit story. Whything is the prosecutor in that particular case was fairly fresh, fairly green. She hadn't had a lot of cases. Brand new. At the time, right? And so we we decide when we go to court the next time that we're going to let the judge know our findings. Judge, I'm sure there's nothing to it, but I got to make the record because this might become some issue at some point in the future if, you know, the gal is in custody now, she might be testifying. I'm just giving you a heads up. She might say this story again.

We do not have any proof or any evidence that what she said is true, but she said that when she went to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the prosecutor to the prosecutor to to the prosecutor to to the prosecutor to to the prosecutor to the prosecutor to the prosecutor to to the prosecutor to the prosecutor to the prosecutor to to the prosecutor the prosecutor to to to to the the the the the record the record the record the record the record the record the record the record the record the record the record the record the record the record the record the record to the record to to the record the to the the the the the the the the the prosecutor the prosecutor the prosecutor the prosecutor the prosecutor to to the prosecutor the prosecutor the prosecutor to to the prosecutor to the prosecutor to the prosecutor to to the prosecutor to to the prosecutor to to to to the prosecutor. to to to the prosecutor to to the prosecutor. to to the prosecutor to to to the prosecutor to the prosecutor to that what she said is true, but she said that when she went to the prosecutor's office before the last time, they gave her 50 bucks. And the judge goes, and a judge is a former defense attorney before, but he was a prosecutor one point too briefly, he goes, well, that's outrageous. And I said, yeah, but I got to make that part of the record. So I don't know if the prosecution's going to object if I ask that question. But I'm going to ask that question. But I just want to make sure that it's kosher.

And then I'm not going to offend the court by asking a question that I I I I I I I I I I that I that I that I that I that I still a prosecutor now and she's become much better. Okay. But she goes, I know what he's talking about, Judge, and she goes, we have a policy in our office where we are allowed under the law to compensate a witness for coming to a court proceeding. And the judge goes, well, I'm familiar with that law. That's a court proceeding You're in a court right now when a witness comes to a court. We have the authority to give them $25 for coming into a court. Yes. That is in by law that comes from the government. There is a There is an indication of that in a ledger somewhere that that witness came to court and therefore that witness was given us a subpoena fee.

Yeah. She goes, well, no, no, no, it's the same for our office because we're officers of the court and so we can do the same thing. He goes, well, I've never heard of that. And that started eight years of litigation, eight years of denials, twists and turns, lawsuits, try to get this information, allegations that all records related to this program, and it wasn't just $25. There were allegations that they were giving hundreds and thousands of dollars to individual witnesses. Hundreds and thousands. Setting them up in apartments, giving them bus

passes, food vouchers, relocation expenses, all off book. All off book. And at one point one of the individuals involved in the district attorney's office indicated that the records were not available because she had personally gone out in the back of the courthouse and lit them on fire because she said that in court on the record she said that she had lit them on fire because that's a different woman different all different people over the years different people get involved so the the thing was so let's talk about what happened in Fat Albert's case. Okay. The jury acquitted him of all charges. Thank God. I'm gonna give you a little congratulations. Thank you. A big win. Now a little asterisk

on that one. He was free for six months. Upon the verdict of not guilty from the jury I whispered in his ear get the fuck out of Vegas man you got a target on your back now because you have opened up a the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to get up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up up. the to. to. to. the to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. the the the the the the the the the the the the to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to. to... to. to. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. t. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. the. te. the te. the t. t his ear get the fuck out of Vegas man you got a target on your back now because you have opened up a can of worms inadvertently yeah he goes got you I'm gonna go back home wherever home was six months later I get a call he's back in custody in Vegas for trick roll same thing same thing same thing that I got him acquitted of. He was accused of doing it again. Luring a guy into a car, taking away, same exact thing. Oh my God. So, you know, no good deed.

Yeah. Anyway, he went, OJ. Just couldn't leave it. Couldn't leave it alone. So wound up with another attorney on that case, wound up getting convicted, got life in prison. So he's in prison right now for life. Oh my god, he did listen. He did not listen. Oh my God. But the issue remained. So that was the dead end there, right? A lot was written about it in the paper, you know, the prosecution got very defensive. They say, well, this isn't actually a program. We don't do any st of the stuff. We don't have any records because there's no no no no no the the the the the the the the the the the th. No the the th. the th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to. to. to. toe. tol. tol. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. toe. I stuff. We don't have any records because there's no law that requires us to

keep them. You know, nothing here to see was basically what the prosecutor said. And because the guy walked, there was no additional challenges, there was no review of it, there was no appeals, there's no nothing. Now all the defense attorneys are getting an interview and they're like we never heard of this this is outrageous because you understand this is an issue for the jury to decide. Now we've got a motivating factor. Now 50 bucks may not be a lot to a world famous comedian or a top level former slam poet. Yes. But you know $50 to a gal on the street that's the day or not the day. that's fuck you money money money. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tho. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the. the. the. the they. they. they. the.e. the.e.e.e. the.e.e. the.e.e. the. the.e.e. the the the the street, that's the day or not the day. That's fuck you money in crack world. That is absolutely. That's leave a tip to the dealer money, right?

That's what we're talking about. So you know, so that's a big deal. And then what about this nonsense about getting her cab fare when she didn't pay for a cab. Like, so that's, that's a that's, that's, thi, that's, thi, th, th, th, th, thi, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to leave, to leave, to, to leave, the, the, th. th. th. That's, th. That's, th. That's, th. And, th. And, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, to, to, to, to, to, to, that's, that's, that's, to, too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too. too, too we don't even know about this other payment stuff at that point. We just know about this one little case. So everybody kind of writes it off as like, well, that was fucking weird. And maybe it was just this one, maybe it was just this one prosecutor. She went a little rogue.

She took advantage of the situation, didn't really know exactly what she should and shouldn't be doing. That sort of thing, right? So it kind of got forgotten. 2009, bunch of, bunch of, bunch of news stories, a bunch of, a bunch of news stories, a bunch of, a bunch of stuff. What is going on across the street here? I think a bunch of very scantily clad gals across the street from my house are going to a yoga party. Is that a yoga? I don't know that they have a little scanty. Acts on their their neon-colored shirts. Yeah I'm not really sure what's going on over there.

There's a bunch of them and they all look lost like one guy just ordered a bunch of chicks. Yeah, that's interesting. I think that might be a conspiracy theory of a different show. I love it. So okay back to what you were talking about. Who even knows at this point? Yeah, so so they all have laminates. There's laminates. There's laminates. They might be doing a video shoot over there. Or there's a big convention going on. I drove by and maybe they're part of that. Yeah, possibly. All right. We digress. Back body spray ladies. Yes. It's. Yeah. th. th. Yeah. Yeah. th. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it smells good. They smell it. They smell it. It's all bubble gum and unicorns. Yes. So, so it's a dead issue, right? It's like, okay, might have been a one shot.

That's really weird. But it's always in the back of my mind, right? So whenever I get a situation from that point forward where it seems very odd behavior from a witness or something like that. I'll ask the question or whatever, whatever happens, happens, but never really comes a big issue until, so that was 09 until four years later. And four years later I'm doing a case. 2013. I'm doing another case, a different all the together. This is a sex offense case and this is a guy who's accused of having inappropriate sexual relations with three different girls, two underage and one was just, she was of age, but she was under 18 but over 16.

Age of Cons of consensus 16 in Nevada in Nevada but there was a weird twist to it because they were able to charge him with kidnapping it was it was a very convoluted case and he may or may not have done it but there was a lot of information that was coming out fresh from these witnesses that seemed to be coming out of nowhere like like every time the story got worse against my guy from a prior version. And you're representing this guy and you start going, where's this all coming from? He didn't say anything about this? Correct.

Okay. And your spider senses are taken away. And it's like, so we throw it out there. And I do the same thing that I do in a lot of cases those cases work out this one's going to trial we're about to get a jury in the whole thing so I say I want any information related to witness payment I know that there's some possibility that you may have done what this other one did and I want to know it because I feel the jury has a right to know that that that that the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the to to to to tooe is is is is is is. to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the know that that might be a motivating factor for this witness to testify that they are. And that's when the levy broke.

And the prosecutor was a seasoned prosecutor, but she felt I was playing a game that I was trying to distract. And so instead of just saying, here they are, she went on this very elaborate ruse to try to convince the court that it never existed in the first place. Right. But the witness said that they got something, but she couldn't remember what it was. She said, I got something but I don't remember it was. In that case, it was something like $650.

Yeah, that's a lot of money. You don't remember this. So we're going through this. And this. And this. And thi. And thiii. And thi. And thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, the the witness, the witness, the witness, the witness, the witness, the witness, the witness, the witness, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the tho, tho, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thin. thin. tho. thoooooooooooooooooooo. too. thoooooooooooooo. thooooo. tho.'s impossible you don't remember this. Right. So we're going through this and that's when the witness from the district attorney's office came up and she says we don't keep handwritten, we don't keep electronic records, it's all handwritten, we do it as a separate account and then at the end of the year we burn them all because we don't have room to store all the hand stuff. And thus that-s th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's thate. So thateate. So, their thateateateateateat. the the the their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their. their. their that. that. that. thate. thate. the. the. the. theate. theateate. theate. theateateate. theate. the. the. the an the handwritten stuff and we don't have the budget to digitalize it and all this other stuff. So just going through it. And so you know the prosecutor is fighting us.

The judge is like, you know, I don't know what's going on here but this doesn't sound right to the judge and yet it's a different judge. And then we explained this happened years ago and here it is again and this is really really.. th. th. th. th. the. th. th. th. th. th. the. th. th. th. th. the th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. thi. the the thi. th. th. th. th. the the the the the the the the the the the the the budget. the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the th. th. the th. And then we explained this happened years ago, and here it is again, and this is really important stuff. And so again, media is right on it. They're like, what's going on? Is there a secret slush fund? Why are they burning receipts?

That seems weird. That seems weird. Like, why don't you keep digital? Yeah, it's a little bit of a flag. Yeah, it's a little weird. Now, before you get into the dresses, are any other defense attorneys coming to you going, what's your experience with this? I think I might be feeling. Oh, now they're coming out of the woodwork, right?

Now everybody's like, oh, we thought that was a one shot. Now I'm giving seminars now. You know. You are the own your your your your your your your your your your your your your your your the own. the own. the the the the the the the their. tha. tha. tha. thahomen. todk. todak. today. today. today. today. today. their. teaters. teaters. te, the defense. the defense. the defense. the defense. the defense. the defense. the defense. the defense. the defense. the defense. the defense. the other. the other. the other. the other. the other. the other. the other. the other. the other. the other. the other. the other. tod. tod. tod. tod. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te. te.'ve got your microphone. I got the TED Talk. I got the PowerPoint. Yeah. You know, I'm in there. And I'm talking about being on a mountaintop in Nepal. And, you know, the inspiration comes to me. So it comes out that the county, that they were able to divert $1.2 million a year. that's a of payments? 1.2 million per year. Yes.

That's a lot of crack money. That's a lot of whatever money. So anyway, so it's all being documented. And the prosecutor's like, this is just Mr. Figler. And then the prosecutor says the best quote to the newspaper, right? She goes, it's, so we say, where's the records? Where, why don't you have this information? Why can't you produce this?

This is basic discovery. This is what the judge asked her. And she goes, look, we're the county. that, that's how government works. Yeah. We do shady shit and cover our tracks. So then, spokesman for the county had to come out and say, that's not how government works, right? So then, so punchline of that one, jury quits my guy on that. He's let go. They find him not guilty. Oh my God. So I got another one off based on this issue. So now the charge is taken up because now people realize there's a lot more to it. And for the last now, now, now, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, three, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, the their, their, their, their, their, their, th. thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th. th. th. th. th. th. Well, th. Well, th. Well, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, thin, their thin, thin, now people realize there's a lot more to it. And for the last now three almost four years there have been lawsuits there have been hearings

fighting back and forth the ACLU gets involved, the largest newspaper in Nevada got involved, they're subpoenaing all these records. It turns out that while the district attorney destroyed all the records the county still has some record because it's the county it's it's taxpayer- all all all all all all all all all all the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the th. th. th. th. the. thea thea the thea. their their their their their their their their their their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. their. It's their. It's their. It's their the the the thea. It's. It's. It's. It's. I's. I's. I's. tea. their their their their their their their their their their their their the all the records, the county still has some record because it's the county. It's taxpayer money. Right, right. And they're like, we don't know exactly where it went and then they were able to recreate some of the vouchers and not. So now they had to do it. So all the pressure is mounting. In 2000, and I'm going to get you your date here because we're almost done with the story. No, no, I love it. This is great. It's perfect. Right.

So then in, let's see, 2013, late 2013, early 2014, the county commission gets involved. And they're like, what's going on here? We didn't hear about any of this. We don't know about this secret fund, this separate fund, this off books account. We want accounting. And so they order accounting, but strangely the accounting doesn't ask the same questions like where the money went.

They're just saying, well, there was this pot of money and it seems like they had some discretion. It just looks like it's sloppy, So, but then the media keeps pushing, there was a particularly devoted reporter named Bethany Barnes. Yes. Great reporter name. Shut up, Bethany Barnes, shut up. Shut out, shut out. You're the enemy of the people.

And so she was relentless, kept going after them. She literally got banned from the district attorney's office. They wouldn't speak to her anymore. They had a whole meetings why they're not letting a reporter ask questions. They file a lawsuit to get those records out of the prosecutor's hands, the whole thing. Ultimately, 2000 and, let's see, 2014, late 2014, DA comes out, the district attorney, and he goes, look, everyone's barking up the wrong tree. We never did anything wrong.

Everything we did is covered by the law. I can't tell you exactly what law. I can't tell you exactly who got what. We have a log, but it's privileged. We're not going to give it to anybody because it might put people's lives at risk. They actually said that. And then they came out, but if we did this, and I'm not saying that we did this, but if we did this, we're never gonna do this again. And they banned the policy that they never admitted

that they were actually doing for future times, or at least so they said, and that was the headline of the paper, was district attorney came out today and said, we will no longer be giving any monies or anything to any witnesses. And if there's any, any reason for us to do it, we will tell the defense attorney, so he could tell the jury or she could tell the jury, if that happens,

he says we'll never do thuuuuuu............ never admits it. And so then the lawsuit that is still pending, and this lawsuit that's still pending as of this day is the districtary witness payment account, where it came from, who managed it, where the money went, who got the money, the names of the people who got the money, the cases that resulted in guilty verdict because possibly a witness was swayed by the money money still remain a mystery. So nobody no we haven't any case came out we're like this was obviously affected the outcome? So there been a few challenges and it's gone to the wire but the court determined wouldn't have made a difference or it wasn't a relevant

factor in this particular case. They take it on what they call a case-by-case basis. But no one has really taken a look at it systemically. Is this a problem? Are there people in custody? Now, the intrepid reporter, Bethany Barnes left Las Vegas and she moved up to Portland, where she's reporting up there for one of the big papers up in Portland, Oregon, but I know she's still looking into many of these cases, it from the other way finding people who were in prison saying look I did not do this you know and now it's gotten the attention of the innocence project yeah yeah so everyone's still sniffing around and there was never a definitive answer as to who got paid how much and did it change their testimony to put innocent people in jail or not. And this to me is so relevant right now with thi th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi thi the thi the the thi the thi thi the thi thi thi to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to to the to the the the the the the their testimony to put innocent people in jail or not?

And this to me is so relevant right now with all these wicked leak dumps and this need by the prosecution, the law enforcement to win, to be right, almost false flag stuff. It's just so amazing. I don't get what the point is of putting guilt, innocent people in jail. Why is it more important to win than be right and do right? Or just be, be transparent. Because I'm gonna say that probably in the vast majority of these cases, they would have gotten a conviction anyway. If they revealed that information the jury would have gone you gave him 25 hours I don't care or you gave him a hundred dollars. I don't care or you gave him five hundred dollars

That didn't change their testimony right but let the jury make that determination don't keep it a secret It just because that that affects the integrity of the verdict and because they're not revealing this information or even acknowledging that it really was happening to the extent that conspiracy theory would say it's topically happening. Tinfoil Hat people. You don't know who's still in prison and who should have been released. Who should be getting a new trial?

I mean, we've got a lot of people incarcerated in this country. And maybe this is just a lo a lo a lo a lo a lo a lo a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot. th. th. th. th. that's a lot. that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's is a that's is a that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's. that's a that's a that's a that's a th. th. th. that's a th. th. th. th. that's a t. t. t. that's a t. that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a that's a Las Vegas thing, but who knows? They're the keeper of their own records. It's unbelievable. So that's my story. That was great, David. Thank you so much. David, real quick. Can you tell us your book again? Because I love it and I'm going to go read it.

I think it's got the best name for it. Yeah, it's called no kids no scat no piss a First Amendment love story it's a little mini memoir I love it dude I love it David thank you so much for doing the my pleasure Sam it's so good to say you welcome back to Vegas man you haven't aged you look exactly it's because I prematurely aged see that was that was that was so that was bad for 22 year old me, but awesome for, it's not me, you know what I mean? You look, yeah, for, for, uh, 40, my man. Well, you look great, David,

I appreciate you doing this. This is a great, this is a great podcast. It was fun to hear it makes, it upsets me. Real, I just been pulled over roughly around 15 times by law enforcement I'm proud to announce I'm 15 and 2 nice probably 15 and 2 my good. I've actually cross-examined Police officers before yeah, and one the case so you know I understand yeah, I understand the lawyer All right, I got you I got you I'm eyes eyes eyes you were the best dude. I appreciate this was great and that's a fun man check out his book. thanks. I understand. I I I I I I I I I I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I'm th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I, eyes. You were the best, dude. I appreciate this was great. That's a lot fun, man. Check out his book.

All right, guys, thanks tune into Tinfoil Hat. And we got Duncan Trussle coming up soon. So take care everybody. We'll talk to you soon. Bye.