Titanic: Ship of Dreams - Founding Fathers Pt7: A New Nation in Chaos

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

The British are defeated and now Americans have a country to build. But quickly, trouble begins. Economic turmoil causes war veterans to rise up against the very government they helped to found. Alexander Hamilton and James Madison call for a radical response: a new constitution to reinvent the United States. Many are appalled; bitter infighting breaks out. And thus, America's first great political campaign begins...the stakes couldn't be higher… A Noiser podcast production. Narrated by Clarke Peters. Featuring Carol Berkin, Krysten Blackstone, Lindsay Chervinsky, Julius Jefferson, Peter Kastor, Alan Taylor. Written and Produced by Edward White | Series Producer: Ed Baranski | Executive Producer: Joel Duddell | Head of Production: Natalie Brook-Reynolds | Script Consultant: Peter Kastor | Sound Supervisor: Tom Pink | Sound design by Oliver Sanders | Assembly editing by Tony Onuchukwu | Compositions by Oliver Baines, Dorry Macaulay, Tom Pink | Mix & mastering by Josh Latham | Additional voice performed by Ben Plumb. Get every episode of Founding Fathers: An American Dream two weeks early and ad-free by joining Noiser+. Click the subscription banner at the top of the feed to get started. Or go to noiser.com/subscriptions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Hulu original series Furious is coming to Disney Plus, starring Emmy Rossum. Furious follows FBI agent Alice Black on the hunt for a mysterious and calculating serial killer. Both walk their own paths toward justice, and as their lives start to intertwine, the line between right and wrong begins to blur. Don't miss the three-episode premiere of the Hulu original series Furious on July 27th, only on Hulu on Disney Plus. It's the afternoon of January the 25th, 1787, more than five years since the British surrendered at Yorktown.

American independence is secured. And yet, in western Massachusetts, soldiers are on the move. As snow falls in the darkening light, 1,500 men march eight abreast. Leading the way are 400 veterans of the Revolutionary War. them as a farmer named Daniel Shays. As a captain in the Continental Army, Shays had a remarkable service record. He saw action at Bunker Hill and Saratoga. On one occasion, he was even handpicked by George Washington for a special mission. Shays fought bravely for the United States. Now he's taking up arms again, this time against the very government he helped to found.

In the three and a half years since the war ended, economic strife has hit America. No longer within the British Empire, American trade networks have been ruined. State governments have been left with huge debts. Everywhere, financial problems are fueling discord. Farmers and workers are struggling. And, like Daniel Shea's, thousands of veterans still haven't been paid for their years of service. Months ago, Sheys began to protest alongside other ex-soldiers. They were loud, yet mainly peaceful.

Not anymore. Shays is leading these men on a march to an armory in the town of Springfield. There, they'll grab the weapons and, well, who knows what's next. They march ever closer to Springfield. But there's a surprise in store. The authorities have intercepted secret messages. They know the rebels are on their way, and they're ready for them. As the rebels approach the armory, local militiamen opened fire, warning shots supposedly.

But then comes artillery fire. In a flurry of violence, 24 men are shot. Four of them are killed. Shays flinches. In a panic, the men behind him scattered. The militia men charge. Shays and his fellow rebels escape into the woods. Shays is safe for now.

Within a few weeks, while still on the run, he'll be sentenced to death in absentia. So it's come to this. Heroes who helped to found the United States are being hunted as traitors. This new America, independent, free, is on the precipice of ruin. I'm Clark Peters, and from the Noisor Podcast Network, this is part seven of founding fathers an American dream.

We ended our previous episode on a world-changing event. In October 1781, the British surrendered at the siege of Yorktown. Thanks to the crucial intervention of their French allies, the United States seized the upper hand. Victory at Yorktown is huge. It signals to everyone that the British have had enough. Hostilities continue and fits and starts. But in September 1783, the Treaty of Paris makes it official. The war is over.

The American Revolution is complete. So, life begins again. In a tailor's shop in New York City, a man in his late 20s looks at himself in the mirror. He likes what he sees. Wrapped around his slim torso is a beautiful new garment, a double-breasted coat with gleaming brass buttons and gilded lapels. This is Alexander Hamilton. We last saw Hamilton in episode six. storming a key British defense at Yorktown.

In the two years since then, Hamilton has been making his way in the world. It's what he does best. Frequent trips to a French tailor are central to his new life. It's all part of a strategy. Look smart, think smart. Once George Washington's trusted aide, Hamilton is now a successful attorney, and he has an outstanding reputation, although some of his clientele might surprise you. They include loyalists,

those who stuck with Britain during the war. In many states, loyalists are still subject to punishment, legal and otherwise, everything from property confiscation to tarring and feathering. But Hamilton sees no sense in recrimination. It's time to move on. That's probably not a majority opinion. Congress recommends that states don't punish loyalists, but few people are listening.

Professor Alan Taylor. How many states do you think followed that recommendation? Zero. It's a recommendation. So some loyalists tried to go home, and they got mobbed. The fair number of them got lynched. A lot of them tried to get their property back. They did not get their property back.

So they end up settling in what becomes Canada. They settle in the Bahamas, Bermuda, significant number come to Britain. I'm talking about the people who were active as loyalists. There were a lot of people who in their hearts would have preferred to be loyalists, but just hunkered down and tufted it out within the new United States. And those people stay in place. They've been marginalized politically. They're not entirely happy, but they're not entirely happy.

but they're trying to make their peace with the new system. By the mid-1780s, many of the revolution's leaders are out of the picture. Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams are not even in America. They're all on diplomatic missions in Europe. As for George Washington, he's decided to do something truly incredible. Once the war is concluded, Washington gives up his command of the Continental Army. This decision to step away from power is unprecedented. Dr. Kristen Blackstone.

He had this very clear sense that his role as commander-in-chief of the Continental Army could turn into something much more powerful, and he didn't want that. He was very wary of the power that his role had. During the war, he made sure that there was a civilian body that was a civilian body that was, was dictating the actions of the army. And after the war, he then gives up command of the army. So instead of keeping the army, taking power, political power that way, he resigns his command.

Of all of his legacies, I think, in fact, this is by far his most important. With the old guard out of the way, there's space for a younger generation. Alexander Hamilton is a prime example. After leaving the army, he briefly serves in the Continental Congress. The experience is an eye-opener. In Hamilton's view, Congress is weak. This is because the United States is not a single country. Instead, it's a loose confederation of 13 republics.

A legal framework holds them together. It's called the Articles of Confederation. Under those terms, Congress has limited powers. It cannot, for example, raise taxes, or regulate trade between states. In Hamilton's view, this is holding America back. The 13 states are bound together by a shared belief in liberty, and that's about it.

Once the common enemy, the British, are removed from the picture, these 13 very loosely tied political entities start to spin off in their 13 separate directions. The notion is that the Congress is basically a diplomatic assembly of these 13 sovereign states and will try to coordinate their policies. But they can't create laws. Only the states can create laws. Only the states can levy taxes.

So this coordinating body is basically saying to the individual states, we need this amount of money from each of you states. So we're going to pursue these policies we need for your state laws to conform with our policies. what happens if a state says no. There's really no coercive mechanism to get these states to tow the line if they don't pay up or they don't obey Congress. So everything is looking like, uh-oh,

you know, we've had this revolution, we won this war, but we now have this confederation, which is too weak to hold us together. Across the United States, problems are piling up. Individuals and governments are plagued by war. debts. Trade disputes between states risk turning into armed conflict and angry veterans demand payment for services rendered. In Massachusetts, the protests turned violent, such as the so-called

Shea's rebellion that began this episode. Ultimately, Shea's and other rebels are given pardons. Executing war heroes would not be a smart move. And in some ways, Shea's Rebellion embodies the entire point of the revolution. Professor Peter Castor. One of the most remarkable things about the American Revolution that people, I think, forget about, is that it unleashed the notion that common people could and should be politically active. Shea's rebellion is a particular opposition movement about men who claim they were not being paid back the debts that were owed to them. It is also, however, symptomatic of this way that Americans, in a lot of states, believed that they had something they could do, that they could be politically active, they could be politically engaged.

The other thing that Shea's rebellion proved was that if the states individually and collectively couldn't get their financial house in order, that would be just as threatening to the ongoing success of the revolution as anything else. What really looks like a small group of troublemakers in western Massachusetts was symptomatic of not only the problems after the revolution, but the opportunities that all of these Americans had really believed in the revolution and had believed in the deal that they had made. A decade earlier, which is that if their leaders were going to call for independence, there had to be a place for them in this new political system. Less than two weeks after Shea's rebellion breaks out in Massachusetts, Alexander Hamilton arrives in the town of Annapolis, Maryland. A conference has been called to address the crisis. What's needed, Hamilton says, is to rip up the Articles of Confederation and start again. Only a strong central government can pull America out of its spiral.

This conference is a potentially huge moment. Shame, then, that only 12 people have turned up. Between them, they represent just five states. But among the 12, there is one very important person. James Madison, a bookish introverted 35-year-old from Virginia. In personality, Hamilton and Madison are miles apart, but they share a conviction. Both believe that only strong central government can save the United States. Over four days, Hamilton and Madison advanced their position.

By the end of the convention, delegates agree. The gains of the revolution are at risk. This political and economic crisis is paving the way to civil war. So a statement is crafted. All 13 states are urged to send delegates to another convention in late spring 1787. The mandate is clear. Revise the Articles of Confederation. Make tweaks to what's already in place.

Iron out some creases. Yet what happens instead is something far more radical. Care for your skin, like you care for the game. Dove Men Plus Care is an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026, and has just dropped their new limited edition, deodorant and antipersprint collection for 72 hours sweat and odor protection helping you stay fresh from kickoff to the final whistle

visit dove.com slash CA slash EN slash men dash care to shop now Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if.

Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. It's May 25th, 1787. In Philadelphia, the rain is drumming down. A line of well-dressed gentlemen scamper into the Pennsylvania Statehouse. The moment they're inside, the door is bolted shut behind them. They turn right on the brick floor and enter the assembly room. It's the same room where many of our founding fathers had once poured over the Declaration of Independence.

A chandelier hangs low from the ceiling. Placed throughout the room are tables covered in green cloth. Behind each are plain spindle armchairs. Small groups of men are locked in quiet conversation. The room isn't quite full, but there are enough delegates present for proceedings to begin. Today is the first session of the Constitutional Convention. Before anything can happen, the windows are. closed. The room is already warm. Without a breeze flowing through, it'll be oppressively humid.

But secrecy is paramount. The building is on lockdown. It's the only way to make sure delegates feel free to discuss, debate, and vote. Only those invited are allowed in. No members of the public, and definitely no journalists. The stated aim of this convention is simple to improve the articles of Confederation. But several men in the room, including Hamilton and Madison, have bigger plans. They want to redesign the system to reinvent the United States of America. Looking around, there are notable absences. No John Adams, no Thomas Jefferson.

They are still serving abroad as ambassadors to Britain and France. But there are some famous American silverbacks. Most notably, Benjamin Franklin. Although he's 81 now and not in great health, George Washington is here too. He's no longer a military commander. But that hasn't stopped him from wearing his old uniform. At 55, he's still a commanding presence, taciturn and stately.

First things first. The convention needs to elect someone to be in charge. There's only one man for the job, Mr. America himself, George Washington. Washington steps up onto a raised platform at the end of the room. He takes his seat, resembling a king on a throne. Perhaps a few people would like to see him take that role too, but that's not Washington's style.

Everyone settles into their chairs. The convention begins. For the next four months, Washington will say very little. He sits quietly, Buddha-like, observing. But to the delegates, it's clear where his sympathies lie. Lindsay Trevinsky. George Washington's role was actually central to the Constitutional Convention, but in ways that people don't necessarily appreciate.

So he was there, of course. he did not miss a single session. He was the president of the convention and was selected unanimously to that role on the very first day of the official proceedings. But he showed up to Philadelphia before the session actually began and spent almost a week basically in cahoots with the Virginia and Pennsylvania members planning out how they wanted to create a new government that would have a much stronger executive. And his perspective in those conversations was obviously incredibly important because of who he was, his stature, the trust that people had in him. At this point, people were already referring to him as the father of the country, which is a

pretty remarkable statement, but also because he had wielded power in such a trustworthy way during the revolution. And so over the course of the convention, when people see Madison proposing these ideas, when they see James Wilson, a famous Pennsylvanian proposing ideas, they should know that Washington had contributed to those ahead of time. He just wasn't necessarily speaking out loud during the conclusion. convention. Washington's wartime experiences shape his attitude to this convention.

The same is true of many veterans. The war had, in large part, made Americans Americans. Many of the soldiers and the officers who fought in the Continental Army, especially those who fought with Washington, they had traveled all around the country. So they had a national vision of what the United States was as opposed to only living in one place and seeing one type of people. They also served with people from all of the different states. So they forged bonds with those from South Carolina and Massachusetts.

And they recognized that when it was cold, they were all cold. And when it was hot, they all dealt with mosquitoes. And so there was a human suffering experience that really went above any cultural or state line that they could have drawn beforehand. On May the 30th, Edmund Randolph rises to his feet. He's from Virginia, a colleague. of James Madison. Randolph presents what is known as the Virginia plan. It might be more accurate to call it the Madison plan. Rarely it's his baby. If anyone here thinks their brief is to simply tweak the status quo, Randolph sets them straight. The Virginia plan calls for a

powerful central government with three separate branches, executive, legislative, legislative, and judicial. The legislative branch will consist of Congress, though it will be split into two halves, a Senate and a House of Representatives, and the executive will be one person, an elected president. The Virginia plan is essentially the nuts and bolts of what will become the U.S. federal government, but it appalls some of the delegates. Under the proposed system, the bigger a state population, the more representatives it will have in Congress. To delegates from smaller states, their independence is at risk. They'll hardly get a say in Congress.

The larger states will completely dominate. Three weeks of debate and wrangling ensues, and warmer weather sets in. But the doors and windows stay shut. As debates drag on, George Washington searches for respite from the heat. He purchases an odd contraption, a chair with a large overhead fan

operated by a pedal beneath his feet. With sweat dripping from the walls, the older delegates struggled to keep their eyes open. Little progress is made. There's no consensus on how many representatives each state should have in Congress. All the while, Alexander Hamilton stays in the background. He just sits and listens, not like him at all.

Then, on the morning of June the 18th, Hamilton takes to the floor and delivers an astonishing speech. Across, wait for it, six hours, he proposes something nobody has yet suggested. However, his fellow delegates are pretty sure they've heard it somewhere before. Hamilton introduced something that looked more like the British system that would have had president who basically would be elected once and then would serve for life. So what does that remind you of? He came.

He wanted to have a Senate that consisted of people who would be chosen once and served their terms for life. What does it remind you up? How's the Lord? And the other delegates are going, we just thought this revolution and you're proposing the system that looks like just a modification of the British system. Hamilton says, that's right, I love the British system.

And all we should do is just adapt it a little. Other politicians said American people never go for that. To his detractors, Hamilton has just revealed himself, an enemy of republicanism, a champion of elitism, aristocracy, and worst of all, monarchy. In coming years, that reputation will cling to him, as tightly as this huge, humid Philadelphia air. Yet, if Hamilton's idea of the future doesn't seem all that democratic, that shouldn't be surprising.

In the 1780s, Americans were less sure about democracy. There's some people for whom it was a bad word. Some of the problems they associated with democracy was, first of all, that it would make local leaders only support local causes and they wouldn't see bigger issues. It would prevent any kind of agreement. And that's the least of the problems. Some of the nastiest stuff from people who oppose democracy were people who said common people don't have the ability to govern themselves.

But it's really this notion that a democracy can lead to mob rule, to decline, to chaos. And so people come into the Constitutional Convention committed to the notion that the United States is and should be a place that operates on the consent of the governed. There's got to be a way to preserve it against these threats in a way that harnesses the best aspects of democracy and mitigates against its greatest dangers. That is a really tall order. The stalemate drags on, and the key question remains, should each state get equal representation in Congress, or should the states with larger populations dominate?

It's July 16th, when delegates from Connecticut pitch an idea. Why not have both states? systems. In the Senate, each state would get two seats, but in the House of Representatives, the number of seats would be determined by the size of the state's population. This way, everybody wins, or at least nobody definitely loses. Big states will boss it in the House, while in the Senate, small states will be on an equal footing with the larger ones. The Connecticut compromise is a huge breakthrough. It sets a very important. It sets the tone for the rest of the convention.

They really were motivated by a sense of urgency. Most of the people who were at the constitutional convention had participated in the revolutionary experiment in some way. And so they had skin in the game. They had fought for this thing, and they knew how hard it was to win and also how hard it was to maintain. It's really hard to build a nation.

It's really easy to tear one down. And so really, I think we should see the convention as a series of compromises because they weren't just compromising on one thing. They were compromising on things constantly. And every single person who was at the convention left without something they had really wanted. But they had enough that they felt like they could agree to it.

Key to this spirit of compromise is the secrecy surrounding the convention. Professor Cowell Birkin is author of A Brilliant Solution, inventing the Constitution. They met in secret because not only could everyone talk more freely, but they did not want the government of their state to know that they were going to compromise with others. Every state sent a list of you, don't give in on this, demand this. And as soon as the men got together, they realized, if we all, it's my way or the highway, nothing will happen. The essential spirit of that convention was compromise. They compromised on everything because they knew it was important.

I admire these men enormously just for that reason, that they understood that politics was a game of compromise if you had a goal. The Connecticut compromise solves an enormous problem, but it leads straight into another. This time, it's the explosive subject of slavery. When the American Revolutionary War broke out, when the Declaration of Independence was written, every British colony permitted enslavement. That enslavement was pretty much limited to African Americans.

During the course of the Revolutionary War, about half the colonies established gradual emancipation. The first state was Pennsylvania, and there's been these terrific studies of enslaved Philadelphians and what happens to them when they become free? And the first thing they do is they change their names. A lot of them had been given first names and not last names, or they had the names of their masters, and they chose new names. Do you know what the most common last names were?

Freeman and Newman. I'm a free man. I'm a new man. Or they chose names of the trades they had learned. Carpenter, Mason, African Americans, they understood what the revolution was about, and they literally take note. of freedom and that this is a new project into their own names.

Yet in southern states, slavery is as strong and pernicious as ever. Among the all-white delegates in Philadelphia, there is no desire to deal with it head on. Some of the delegates they find slavery morally abhorrent, but nonetheless, for most of them, the higher priority is preserving the union. They are going to do everything they can to pay over slavery, to just prevent slavery from ripping things apart. But slave-holding states pose a dilemma that can't be ignored.

They want their enslaved population to count towards their representation in Congress, but not when it comes to setting taxes. And so they did the same thing they did on several other issues, where they come up with a compromise, which is that for reasons of apportionment, slaves will count as three-fifths of individuals. This means that states that have slave populations will have their presence in Congress boosted. But slaves won't fully count when it comes to setting federal taxes. The way slavery is addressed in the Constitution reflects unpalatable truths.

Julius Jefferson is the descendant of numerous people enslaved at Thomas Jefferson's Monticello plantation. It's all about finance. about wealth. That's obviously the finding of this country, but it's all about the wealth of a few individual white men. If you call them as human beings, then the South would control the new burgeoning nation. If you made them three-fifths of a human being, then you give the North a little bit more leverage. And we still forget that when the country was founded, after this constitution was written, the majority of the leaders in the executive branch come from the South. So all men are created equal, except for these individuals who help found the country. But politically, they can be

useful to us in some way. And so, let's say, they're three-pits of a human, and then we'll continue this idea that they're inferior. Yet, these individuals, who they consider three-fifths, were always integral in developing this nation. What is known as the three-fifths compromise is a profoundly ugly moment in the founding of the USA, and it has only incubated moral and and political problems for future generations. People often see this as symptomatic of what enslavement was all about, which is that you count as less than a person.

But from my perspective, the fact that everyone could sign on to that compromise speaks to just how much all of the delegates really didn't want to deal with the slavery issue because they knew it's the issue they couldn't resolve. There are other huge issues for the United States to grapple with. One of them has also been part of the American story since the earliest days of colonization,

the battle between white settlers and the native population. In Philadelphia, delegates are locked in their sweltering cocoon. Debates drag on and on. Several hundred miles west, war is brewing. When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get, like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system, and it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground running. Bring it with SAP Grow, AI Cloud ERP for any size business.

It's July 1787. We're on the southwestern edge of Virginia. Although a few years from now, this spot will be Kentucky, the 15th state of the USA. In this wide open landscape, the Ohio River shimmers in the afternoon sun. A few hundred yards away, a group of young native men on horseback scan the horizon. One of them points into the distance. He's seen something. Movement on the water. It's a large flat-bottom boat, heading south. On board are several adults, men and women. All of them are white citizens of Virginia.

These are settlers. They're transporting timber and cattle, vital supplies for their new homesteads. For nearly 300 years, white people have been establishing communities in America. The settlers consider this land to be their birthright. It was the reason many of them supported the revolution, but the young men watching in the distance are Shawnee people.

To them, this land, is theirs and always has been. These white Americans are invaders. During the last years of British ruled, settlement this far west was banned. Not because the British were morally opposed. They were simply unwilling to cover the costs of further wars. It's for this reason that a majority of native communities

allied with the British during America's War of Independence. Native people were deeply involved. were deeply involved in the war. They fought in countless battles. Their communities were immersed in the long years of conflict. But the war is over. The British have been defeated. Everything has changed.

More and more settlers are pushing into native territory. Armed conflict has broken out. Just days ago, Congress announced new legislation. It gives backing to settlers wanting to advance into the Ohio River Valley. The Shawnee and other native people refused to lay down. The young men on horseback ride towards the river. Once they come within range, one of them fires a warning shot.

On the boat, the settlers shriek. One of them grabs a gun. Spotting the Shawnee man in the distance, the settler fires back. The bullet whistles through the air. It's a minor skirmish. There are no fatalities this time. But a new era of conflict between natives and white settlers has begun.

The Constitutional Convention isn't blind to the conflict growing in the Ohio River Valley. In fact, it takes steps to accelerate it. Native Americans lost their independence as a result of the American Revolution, but not right away. European empires had sought to subjugate and to conquer native peoples for over two centuries by the moment of the American Revolution, and they had been unsuccessful in doing so. The United States accomplished it in about a century, and it's the Constitution in some ways that makes it possible. The Constitution gave the federal government the resources that would later become essential to assert federal sovereignty and to extinguish native sovereignty.

The Constitution also established a provision for the creation of new states, and those new states come at the expense of Native sovereignty. It is often a prerequisite to become a state that all the land governed by Native peoples is no longer governed by Native peoples. This is a long history, but if we see this as part of U.S. history, it's baked into the cake from the start in the same way that enslavement is baked into the cake. The long stultifying summer draws to a close. Finally, in September, a full draft of the Constitution is complete. It begins with three memorable words, We the People, a subtle but powerful message of popular sovereignty. The Constitution is just 4,500 words,

a concise work of Republican principles, the architecture of a powerful new government, complete with abundant checks and balances. The Constitution describes a new system called federalism. It attempts to distribute power fairly between central government, the states, and the people. What has been achieved is described by some as the miracle at Philadelphia.

But not everyone at the convention would agree. Only 39 of the 50s. five delegates signed the document. Some are rigidly opposed to this vision of federal government. Nevertheless, the convention's work is finally done. No more long days in airless seclusion. The delegates can all go home, and the draft constitution can be revealed. News of what has been agreed in Philadelphia rushes out. Details are printed in newspapers throughout the 13 states. In town meetings, coffee houses, and taverns,

people learn what the delegates have been cooking up. The consensus is astonishment. Many are stunned by the scope of the document. The delegates haven't just been tinkering under the hood. They've built a whole new vehicle. The opening words of this Constitution are very significant as we've got people. It doesn't say we, the states.

So that's a bold statement by the people writing this Constitution that they are imagining something known as the people, the American people. There's a lot of pushback to that language. From many people who are staunch revolutionaries like Sam Adams or like Patrick Henry who say, uh-uh-ah, we wage this revolution in order to have strong states not to create the super government that would control the states, which is what the new U.S. Constitution does.

The proposed constitution is radically democratic. As such, it will only come into being with the consent of the people, or, to be specific, the free, male people. Each state will elect representatives at ratifying conventions. There, the constitution will be dissected and debated. Then the representatives will vote yes or no. If nine states vote yes, the constitution will come. into effect. So two teams begin to form. One of them advocates the status quo. The other urges the people to embrace something bold and new. It's not history repeating exactly, but 1787 does have echoes of 1776. Yet at the same time, it's breaking new ground. This is the first national political campaign in American history, because in the past, the members of Congress were just chosen by state legislatures in each one of the different states. They don't have to campaign in other states. They don't have to coordinate a political campaign that is happening at the same time in Massachusetts, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, New York. So now you've got people coordinating a national political campaign to get this document. ratified in all 13 states.

That's unprecedented. And like any American political campaign, it's brutal. Predictably, Alexander Hamilton is in the thick of it. In the fall, Hamilton is locked in a public war of words. His opponent is George Clinton, the governor of New York. These two have had beef for years. and makes sure of political differences, ambition, and ego. Clinton is utterly opposed to the Constitution.

He wants a strong New York state, not a powerful federal government. Hamilton fires off the first insult. He calls Clinton thick-sculled, interested only in himself. Clinton hits back. He, or someone close to him, gives Hamilton crude insults. insulting nicknames in the pages of at least one newspaper. Hamilton's Americanness is called into question. He's foreign-born, Clinton supporters remind their readers.

Maybe he's mixed race, too, and illegitimate. There are no such things as birth certificates in 1787. If there were, maybe Clinton would demand that Hamilton publish his. In small ways, the Hamilton. Hamilton-Clinton-Spat is reproduced across America. Supporters of the Constitution are called federalists. Those against it are anti-federalists. In every state, the two sides do rhetorical battle.

This is, after all, America. However, the famous American right to freedom of speech is not written into the Constitution. Since the start of the revolution, every state has written its own constitution, enshrined in some of these are individual rights. But the U.S. Constitution contains nothing like this. To many people, that's alarming. When the subject was raised at the convention, Madison dismissed it. People's rights are already covered in state constitutions, he said. And for now, that's the line he's sticking to.

As 1788 approaches, Hamilton and Madison team up once again. Along with Hamilton's fellow New Yorker John Jay, they write a series of essays. Each advances the argument for a federal government. Eventually, they assemble a group of those documents into a single book that becomes simply known as The Federalist. It's now often called the Federalist Papers. American school children still read it in high school and college. all get assigned the Federalist papers because they're brilliant. They not only explain the Constitution, but they explored challenges of government that were the case in 1788, but are still the case now.

Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay learned from the revolution. They knew the power of print. Hamilton, Madison, and Jay also exploit a tactical advantage. Federalists have a single coherent aim to sing, the praises of the Constitution and sketch a vision of a better tomorrow. Not so for the anti-federalists. The anti-federalists had a lot of different reasons for opposing this. Some opposed it because it did not have a bill of rights. But there are other people who opposed it for other reasons.

They thought the president was too powerful. They thought Congress was too weak. There were any one of a number of reasons, and there are almost too many to list. Here's the other problem. They didn't have a better solution. And the federalists would say to them, all right, how are you going to address the crippling debt that faces every state?

How are you going to address the fact that foreign powers will not let us trade with them? How will you address the fact that Native Americans are powerful in the West and they're winning the war against us there? How will you address all of these things? How will you prevent the states from falling apart? and the anti-ferralists didn't really have a good answer.

My name is Peter Parker, but I'm also Spider-Man. This July, we're faced with a threat. That can be anyone. The world may have forgotten Peter Parker. I'm just a neighbor, friendly neighbor. But he hasn't forgotten them. Sometimes Spider-Man has to do the hard thing. That's my responsibility.

Talk to Banner? I didn't know you could get that big. Spider-Man, brand-new day. In theaters, July 31st. One day, you're negotiating with suppliers. The next, you're installing a shelf in the back room. Running a business means moving in many directions all the time. TD's new small business banking accounts are built for how your business moves.

It's how we're making banking more human. The first state to ratify the Constitution is Delaware. The vote is carried unanimously. By the end of January 1788, four other states have followed suit, a promising start. But then the Constitution hits a roadblock. In Massachusetts, there is widespread resistance to the proposed federal government.

It figures. Massachusetts is the rarity argumentative place where our story of the revolution began. Some of those who led the rebellion against Great Britain are now challenging the Constitution. Their biggest gripes, are the issues of state sovereignty and individual rights, the very thing that James Madison had brushed off at the convention.

Among the critics is Samuel Adams. In the 1760s, his was the loudest voice against the British government. He alleged that Parliament was stomping all over American liberty. Now, 20 years later, he warns that the same thing could happen again. Except this time, the tyrants won't be a snooty king or a bunch of aristocrats. They'll be homegrown, all-American tyrants. Massachusetts is an influential state. A man like Adams is listened to and respected.

If the Constitution falls here, the whole thing could go up and smoke. So another compromise is reached. The Federalists promise that if the Constitution passes, a Bill of Rights will be added. When it is eventually introduced, a few years from now, the Bill of Rights will provide the first ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution. These include the First Amendment regarding freedom of expression, and the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms.

And right now, in 1788, James Madison has been converted. He now sees the wisdom of having a Bill of Rights. Along with the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights established the principles of our society. Some of these rights are less important than that first one and certainly less controversial than the second one. But it is an assumption of American culture that the Bill of Rights is a sacred statement of what we believe in. You have to admire Madison's recognition at the Bill of Rights was more than just to calm down the fears of some people. It was to establish what our country stood for.

And for that alone, we should admire him. The Massachusetts vote is taken. The Constitution scrapes home by a nose. It's a huge moment. A major obstacle has been lifted. The promise of a future. Bill of Rights softens opposition in other states. In the spring, ratification follows in Maryland and South Carolina. So, by early summer 1788, a total of eight states have voted yes. If just one more

state ratifies, the Constitution will come into being. Yet there's a long road still to travel. The powerhouses of New York and Virginia are yet to vote. If they don't sign up, the experiment of the United States could be ruined, even if nine other states vote yes. Both New York and Virginia boast prominent anti-federalists. Ratification in either state is going to be a challenge. First up is Virginia. In early June, the state ratifying convention begins in the town of Richmond.

Leading the anti-federalists is Patrick Henry, a revolutionary icon. Back in the days before independence, he was the maverick who said, give me liberty or give me death. In the theater where the convention takes place, Henry dominates. Nobody delivers a speech quite like him.

He clenches his fists and strikes the air. He bears his teeth and widens his eyes. During the 22 days of his, of the convention, Henry will give speeches on 17 of them. He's relentless, inexhaustible. James Madison does his best to push back, but he's no Patrick Henry. Little Jemmy, as he's often called, falls ill after one of his speeches. Seemingly the stress of the last year has gotten to him.

Virginia takes its vote on June the 25th. By this time, New York has also begun its ratifying convention. And there's breaking news. New Hampshire has just voted yes on ratification. That brings the tally to the magic nine. But still, if Virginia and New York don't join them, America is likely to descend into another crisis.

It's July 2nd, 1788. We're in Poughkeepsie, New York. It's early afternoon. A messenger rides up to the local courthouse. He dismounts and walks to the front door. Inside, there's a very important event. New York's ratifying convention. The messenger hands a letter to the doorkeeper.

It's addressed to Alexander Hamilton, who is sitting inside. For days, Hamilton has been desperate for news from Virginia. Tensions here in New York are high. Hamilton has been advocating the Constitution. Leading the opposition is his old foe, George Clinton. It's Clinton speaking right now. The doorkeeper walks through the courthouse. He puts the letter into Hamilton's hand.

Hamilton gasps. The letter is from James Madison. The vote from Virginia is in. Hamilton jumps to his feet. Those around him turn their heads. He reads aloud from Madison's letter. By a slim margin, Virginia has ratified the Constitution. Clinton is immediately silenced.

Hamilton and the other Federalists run outside. In the midday sun, they celebrate wildly. Rich, powerful Virginia has voted yes. Suddenly the vote here seems a formality. It would be unthinkable for New York to leave itself isolated. Victory is at hand. In the end, New York's Federalists come out on top, but by the tiniest of margins, 30 votes to 27.

Nevertheless, New York's vote is a powerful moment. It confirms the success of a unique endeavor. Now, another chapter in the incredible story of the United States. United States is about to begin. But this one's not going to be smooth running either. Next time, in the final episode of Founding Fathers, an American Dream, a new chapter of the United States begins. Leading the way is America's first president, George Washington. But the president soon stuns the world with the most famous resignation in history. As the era of party politics gets underway, infighting turns founding fathers into bitter enemies. In a muddy field in New Jersey,

a deadly duel claims life of an American pioneer. And after a bruising election, the U.S. teeters on the verge of a violent coup and the destruction of everything the founding fathers have worked for. That's next time. You can listen to the final episode of Founding Fathers right now, without waiting and without ads by joining Noisor Plus. Click the banner at the top of the feed or head to noisor.com forward slash subscriptions to find out more.