Today, Explained - A call from Gaza

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

People are desperately trying to escape Gaza as the siege on the strip continues. Mohammed Ghalaieny, a Palestinian British man, tells us why he is choosing to stay, even as other foreign nationals escape through the Rafah border crossing with Egypt. This episode was produced by Haleema Shah and Amanda Lewellyn, edited by Amina Al-Sadi, fact-checked by Victoria Chamberlin and Laura Bullard, engineered by Rob Byers, and hosted by Noel King. Transcript at vox.com/todayexplained Support Today, Explained by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In September, Mohamed Ghalaeni left home in Manchester, England to visit his dad in Gaza. Mohamed had a life in Manchester. He's an atmospheric scientist and he worked for the government on air quality policy. But he'd been away from Gaza for 20 years and he was thinking about moving home. This trip was like a toe in the water. That things didn't go as planned for Mohammed is probably very obvious. There's nowhere safe. Nowhere feels safe. So if nowhere feels safe, then you might as well say, what the hell? That's how I'm living my life right now.

But Mohammed has something most Palestinians don't. He has a British passport. The question now is, will he flee to the Rafa crossing and use it? Coming up on today explained the one way out of Gaza. Bet MGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM.

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pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. This is Today at Sway. Early in the war, you'll recall that the Israeli army told people living in the north of Gaza to move south for safety. Muhammad Ghalaini's family was in the north, so there was a panic that had to do with the math of this situation. An evening deadline, 17 people, and how to move them all, starting with the family's small Fiat Panda. My father, his wife, my stepbrothers, and their grandparents and their two aunts went in this small car. Eight people in the first car, then a taxi arrived,

five people and their belongings jammed into the taxi. And then in the last car, Mohamed, his uncle, two more relatives and anything they could carry, headed into the ruins of northern Gaza. And yeah, it was surreal because where we were was very empty, very isolated. And as we, you know, there were scenes of just bombing and destruction all around us because it had been a week at this point. We'd been told that the boundary, I guess,

was the Wadi Raza, a river that is five miles south of Gaza City, yeah? And call me crazy, but I just needed space. So as soon as we got south of Wadi Raza, I asked the taxi to stop, and I just got out and told them to carry on it it wasn't without a fight because they were like we're not leaving you here I was like look guys this is the safe zone I'm just gonna I just need some space I need to reflect on this tragedy I walked for a few miles I got to Nusayrat which is um you know maybe 12 miles from Gaza I stopped there

for a bit I bought some some bread I bought some um some canned goods just general like supplies I chatted to some people made some phone calls and then got a lift to Khanyunisa but you know I think I needed to pause to just look like watch what was happening it sounds stupid but to sit it's like a moment for me I guess I was okay sorry it seems seems indulgent but I just needed to I just needed some space I need to kind of to to see what was going on it was a horrific kind of scenes in the sense of like just people loaded in the back of trucks, kind of traveling in the back of trucks. It was scenes that were reminiscent of a Nekba in 1948.

You know, people on motorbikes or in tuk-, when people have now been forced to walk across Wadi Gaza, and perhaps even they're having to walk the whole distance from Gaza to Khan Yunis, and the tragedy is just even bigger. You know, I spoke to my friend who they made the journey three days ago and she related you know like seeing someone elderly that was not making it on the side of the road um there was a an old man she said who you know his um his young you know his grandchildren or sons were supporting him to make sure he didn't fall because anyone that stopped, they said, was being shot at by the Israeli army that were at the crossing point. It's just a tragedy and a war crime that Israel is doing this but also being allowed to do this.

Whoever in the international community, in quotes, is supporting Israel in this is complicit in these war crimes. You know, Joe Biden, Rishi Sunak, the EU, take heed. You've enabled war crimes. You're aiding and abetting ethnic cleansing. I want to ask you about the broader geopolitics in just a second. But after hearing your story, I do want to just confirm, were you able to reunite with your family?

I was, yeah. I know it seems like ridiculous, but I just kind of felt, we'd been indoors for the best part of a week and I just wanted space. Again, we're talking about relative to here, but do you feel your family are safer in the South? Safer than had they stayed? I think you can only consider that on a minute-by-minute basis. Three days ago, I went to visit my aunt. She lives about a mile away from here.

Her house has some solar panels, so I go and charge my phone there, and it's nice to see them and just have a little change of scene. I walked into the house, sat down for 10 minutes, and then there was a massive explosion. Dust and soil filled the house outside, but then also came in, the windows blew out. aunt's friend who was sheltering with her was coming down the stairs she's 75 and she'd heard the first explosion wasn't sure what was happening and I kind of ushered her away from where the explosion had happened because I know that these things often come in twos or threes even thankfully it was only one as soon as we like you know we felt like a little bit safe in that living room I my thoughts immediately went to my cousin who, you know, minutes before I'd seen him in the garden where the explosion had happened. He was

troubleshooting the water pump. So I was like, has he been caught in the explosion? And so we were all, you know, in a state of panic for a couple of minutes until we did a head count. Everyone's fine. My cousin was there. Where are the children? The children were in another house. And then there was more panic until we were sure that the children were okay.

But do you see how, you know, in another kind of timeline or in another series of events, that could have been very different. There could have been children playing where that bomb and its debris went off and fell. My cousin could have been in the other part of the garden and so on and so on. On October 7th, Hamas killed 1,200 people in Israel, and Israel declared war on Hamas. Can you tell me what went through your mind? You'd only been back in Gaza since September.

What did you think at that point? So I actually woke up at 6.30. I was meant to go help with the olive harvest, and from my bedroom window I could see rocket fire. I was looking south and there were all these smoke trails heading east. And that went on for an hour, and I was like, oh shit, this is big. I wonder what's happening. Then, you know, news started filtering in in dribs and drabs that biters had broken through. There were attacks on army bases.

And, you know, at that point, that's kind of, that's to me within the right of an occupied people to defend themselves. So, so far, my mind is saying, great, we're fighting back. Wow, what a blow against the IDF. And then I guess more news starts filtering through of hostages. I guess what would go through my mind at that point is, you know, Palestinian groups have often done

as a way of freeing Palestinian prisoners. I'm not saying one justifies another, but in the end, Israel has us kind of in a chokehold, and they're like a heavyweight fighter that's got us, this kind of puny featherweight fighter in a chokehold. I think eventually when we started hearing of civilian deaths, I guess my heart sank. I wasn't happy to hear about civilian deaths because I don't think civilians should be caught up in military action in any way.

Throughout this interview, I get a strong sense of how you feel about Israel. I want to ask you about Hamas. So Hamas has controlled Gaza for 16, almost 17 years, and you have not been a permanent resident of Gaza, as you've said. You landed in September. Since then, what have you learned about what people in Gaza think about Hamas? I think there is a perception after 16 years in power, you know, there's a degree of mismanagement, let's say. It's really hard to put your finger on what people feel because I think people feel afraid. People feel really worried about what's next.

And when they, I guess, interrogate Hamas as an organization, they'll be like, you know, how did you see this playing out? Okay. I think, you know, a lot of people, you know, are angry at the way people were living was not a way to live under like a very underdeveloped economy because of this blockade and this inability to travel and trade freely. And Mohamed, you as a British citizen, you could get out. Why have you chosen to stay? And are you thinking of leaving? I change my mind every day. There's still a window open for me to leave if I wanted to.

I feel that I don't want to leave because this is home. I have a home in Manchester, but this is home. And I feel like if I leave now, I won't be able to come back. Israel has precedent in that sense. When people left in 1948 and 67, a lot of people couldn't return. Obviously, Palestinians are one of the biggest nations of refugees in the world. That's the first point. And the second point is that I feel that I can be useful to my community here both in terms of supporting people through this

you know materially and psychologically but also in terms of just being I guess being a voice but also kind of coordinating getting people's voices out because you know we need our stories need to be told and the more of us are here to tell them the better and I know you know it goes against kind of logic in the sense that but why don't you just go and tell your stories from outside well I don't know it doesn't doesn't feel right That was Mohamed Ghalayini in Han Yunis. Coming up, the Rafah Crossing. Support for Today Explained comes from Aura. Aura believes that sharing pictures is a great way to keep up with family.

And Aura says it's never been easier thanks to their digital picture frames. They were named the number one digital photo frame by Wirecutter. Aura frames make it easy to share unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame. When you give an Aura frame as a gift, you can personalize it. You can preload it with a thoughtful message, maybe your favorite photos. Our colleague Andrew tried an AuraFrame for himself. So setup was super simple. In my case, we were celebrating my grandmother's birthday and she's very fortunate. She's got 10 grandkids. And so we wanted to surprise her with the AuraFrame

and because she's a little bit older, it was just easier for us to source all the images together and have them uploaded to the frame itself. And because we're all connected over text message, it was just so easy to send a link to everybody. You can save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFrames.com to get $35 off Aura's best-selling Carvermat frames with promo code EXPLAINED at checkout. That's A-U-R-A-Frames.com with promo code EXPLAINED at checkout. That's A-U-R-A frames dot com promo code EXPLAINED. This deal is exclusive to listeners and available just in time for the holidays. Terms and conditions do apply. It's Today Explained. In the days after Israel started its ground invasion of Gaza,

a lot of eyes turned to Gaza's border with Egypt, to the Rafah crossing. Here's U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken. Rafah will be open. We're putting in place with the United Nations, with Egypt, with Israel, with others, the mechanism by which to get the assistance in and to get it to the people who need it. Mohamed Sabri is an independent journalist and a scholar at King's College in London.

He wrote a book about the Sinai Peninsula. This is the desert region where the Rafah Crossing is located. My book's title is Sinai, Egypt's Linchpin, Gaza's Lifeline, Israel's Knife Mare. Can you tell us what the Rafah crossing is exactly? The Sinai Peninsula borders both the Gaza Strip and Israel. And in the middle of this border stands the Rafah crossing terminal, which is the official terminal controlled on the Egyptian side by the Egyptian authorities and on the Gaza side by the Palestinian authorities. It looks like an

ordinary land crossing between two countries looks like an ordinary land crossing between two countries, just like any land crossing you'd find between Egypt and Libya or between the United States and Mexico. But the significance of the Rafah crossing is that it is the only land access into the Gaza Strip and outside of the Gaza Strip

that is not controlled by the Israeli military and the Israeli authorities. It plays the only actual role that happens to help the Gazans outside of the very extremely strict blockade policies imposed by Israel. The Rafah Terminal became the only hope for Gazans to get out into the world. To give you a very simple example, if a Gazan person wants to travel anywhere in the world, they have only one option, to cross the Rafah Terminal into Egypt and to fly from Egypt or travel from Egypt to anywhere else. They don't have that option on the Israeli side. It is simply the Gaza Strip's only window to the world that is not completely militarized and controlled by the Israeli authorities. Is the Rafah Crossing always open?

No, unfortunately no. The Rafah Crossing has always been affected by the situation in the Gaza Strip, especially the security situation. If there's any war happening, of course, the terminal gets completely disrupted and it becomes a matter of extreme security restrictions on the movement into and outside of the terminal. Also, Israel has on many occasions in different wars and in this recent war has always bombed in and around the Rafah crossing of both the Palestinian and the Egyptian sides. Also it's subject to the

policies and the foreign policy of Egypt as well. So at times of let's say heated arguments between the Egyptian side, the Egyptian government and the Egyptian government, and the Gaza authorities, the Hamas authorities, we see a complete closure of the Rafah terminal by the Egyptian side. So Egypt, in fact, is cracking down on Hamas. Since the new Egyptian government has taken over, they've closed all those borders. Since the beginning of this war, Israel has declared a complete siege on Gaza. Hear now from the Israeli Defense Minister who spoke earlier. We are putting a complete siege on Gaza.

No electricity, no food, no water, no gas. It's all closed. The only possible way to break that siege is to open the Rafah terminal, and Israel is well aware of this. So it simply threatened the Egyptian side that if the Egyptian side opens the terminal unilaterally and pushes in humanitarian convo escalate and risk pushing in convoys that would end up being bombed and the death of more humanitarian workers, or to simply try to navigate this very heated situation in a more diplomatic, more safe manner. More than 100 trucks with humanitarian supplies are waiting on the Egypt side of the Rafah crossing.

It's hoped the first 20 trucks will start moving into Gaza soon, but it's unclear exactly when. The entry of aid trucks was part of an agreement that President Biden brokered. And this is why, since the beginning of this war, what has gone into Gaza through the Rafah Crossing is literally 3% or less than the actual needs of the Gaza Strip. And when we say actual needs here, we're talking about calculations of peacetime, the needs of war. Earlier, we heard from a man whose family, including him, have British citizenship, and as a result, they could get out. Can any Palestinians get out if they don't have citizenship elsewhere? And do we presume with diplomatic negotiations, they might be able to

at some point? Okay, the first question, no Palestinian without a foreign nationality can cross the Rafah terminal just freely at any time. And at the time of war, the Rafah terminal is closed for civilians, with the exception of what Egypt considers special cases. Special cases here are people with foreign nationalities, and we have to bear in mind that those are not full-time residents of the Gaza Strip. But for the ordinary Gazan, it is an open-air prison. Ordinary Gazan cannot go anywhere without the security permission of Israel and Egypt. And if they don't get that permission, they are not going anywhere. If diplomatic pressure happens, it depends on what we mean by diplomatic pressure here.

Diplomatic pressure to what exactly? To allow the Palestinians to flee under firepower and run into Egypt? This could be interpreted and is being interpreted as taking part, participating in a crime of ethnic cleansing. Egypt has affirmed and is reiterating its vehement rejection of the forced displacement of the Palestinians and their transfer to Egyptian lands in Sinai, as this will mark the last gasp in the liquidation of the Palestinian cause, shatter the dream of an independent Palestinian state, and squander the struggle of the Palestinian people and that of the Arab and Islamic peoples.

We should say there's a lot of realpolitik here. You know, in Egypt, for example, the economy is really, really struggling. They do not want to take the burden of hundreds of thousands, millions of Palestinians from Gaza. Mika, we should say... Let me ask you lastly, for people who do make it across the Rafah Crossing into Egypt, what awaits them there? Is the idea they get across the border and then go back to the countries where they hold citizenship immediately? What does it actually look like at the moment? Oh, yeah, this is exactly how you

described it. They are allowed by the Egyptian authorities, not allowed, they are demanded by the Egyptian authorities to leave Egypt within a window of 72 hours from their entrance to Rafah. So if an American Palestinian comes in through the Rafah terminal into Egypt, they are put on buses, directly travel to Cairo, and are allowed 72 hours to pack their bags and leave to wherever they're going. This is not the usual case, because Palestinian dual citizens can stay in Egypt on a tourist visa, they can stay in Egypt on the exceptional allowances for holders of Palestinian nationality. But in this case, because Egypt sees the pressure that is trying to force it to accept Palestinian refugees as an incentive for it to basically tell any Palestinian, even those with the dual

nationality, that you have 72 hours on Egyptian soil and you have to leave as soon as you get into Egypt. That was Mohamed Sabri. He's the author of Sinai, Egypt's linchpin, Gaza's lifeline, Israel's nightmare. As for Mohamed Ghalini's family, his mother and sister crossed through Rafah a few days after the war started, and they're back in the UK. His father and brothers arrived at Rafah a week ago to find their names on a list of people who'd been approved to leave, and they're in Cairo. His stepmother, Nadia, after being turned away, just learned that her name is on that list. When we talked to Mohamed a few hours ago, Nadia was at the Rafa crossing and bound for Cairo. He remains in Gaza.

Today's show was produced by Halima Shah and Amanda Llewellyn. It was edited by Amina El-Sadi. Rob Byers is our engineer, and we had fact-checking from Laura Bullard and Victoria Chamberlain. I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained. you