Today, Explained - A phone call from Ukraine

Episode Date: February 24, 2022

Kurii Vasyl and his niece Yulya try to make sense of Russia’s invasion of their country. And Kyiv Independent reporter Igor Kossov explains the latest from Ukraine’s capital. This episode was produced by Will Reid and Victoria Chamberlin, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Efim Shapiro, edited by Matt Collette and Sean Rameswaram, and hosted by Noel King. Transcript at vox.com/todayexplained Support Today, Explained by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. It's Today Explained. I'm Noelle King. Russia has invaded Ukraine by land, air and sea from the north, south and east. Russian troops are making for the capital, Kiev. This invasion was maybe just as much doubted as it was feared. Now it's a reality.

Today on the show, we're going to hear from Ukrainians about what they've been experiencing over the last day. The first person we called, Kuri Vasil. Здравствуйте, Васил. Это Фима Шапира. No one at Today Explained speaks Ukrainian, but our engineer Afim Shapiro does speak some Russian, and he volunteered to translate. Would you tell me your full name? And where are you now, Mr. Vasil? In the town of Lviv in Ukraine.

But we got a little turned around linguistically. Is that in the north or the south of the country? Is that in the north or the south of the country? Is that in the north of Ukraine? In the west. That is in the west. I'm so sorry. So Mr. Vasil told Afim, hold on a second, let me call my niece, Yulia. Hello? Hello? my niece, Yulia. Yulia, my name is Efim Shapiro. Yulia Lopushinska ended up translating her uncle's Ukrainian into English, and she answered a few of my questions, too. My uncle and I, we live here in the western Ukraine, and here are no Russian troops, well, yet, and they are on the eastern side of Ukraine. Are you doing anything to prepare right now for an invasion if Russian

troops do reach you? He refuses to answer this question because he hopes that they will not invade the whole territory of Ukraine. He doesn't even want to engage with the question. We believe in our army, and they will not let Russian troops invade to the full scale our country. Yulia, I understand what your uncle is saying, but are you doing anything to prepare, or do you also have complete faith in the Ukrainian military? Well, I think the same way my uncle thinks, but frankly, I have all, my family and I, we have all our documents ready if it happens to leave. We do not want to do that. We are home now. We do not

want to do that. We try to stay safe and calm, especially calm. But if it happens, well, I do not want to think about that if it happens, because it's really scary and frustrating if it happens. Does anything look different in your city today? Are there more people out on the streets? Are there more soldiers out on the streets? Or does everything look normal? In general, all Ukrainians, they are calm. The people who live in big cities, they have taken their children to small places, smaller

villages. But in general, the situation is calm here and people are ready to protect their territory, their country, because we have been living with the situation for eight years now. It all started in 2014 when Russian troops first invaded Ukraine. So we have been, well, getting ready for that. So everybody is ready to protect. In what way are you prepared to protect yourselves? Do you have guns in the house? Do you have food supplies? How are you ready? For now, we have no food supplies because everything is

in the stores. We are not in panic. But, like most of Ukrainian men, they are ready to take the guns into their hands and protect the territory. Okay. Nobody is thinking about leaving or stepping back.

A big amount of Ukrainians do not wait for the signs. They leave their houses and they go to the eastern part of Ukraine to support and help and protect. Vladimir Putin ordered an invasion of your country. What do you think of him? Well, I pray for him. Not many people support me in that, but I want him to change. I want him to think different because we are a peaceful nation. Ukraine is a peaceful nation, people who do not want to fight or do not want the war. My uncle would not approve that. Maybe he would say something different.

But I know some people from Russia and I know that they support Ukraine. Not everybody is a game. So it depends, you know. Yes, Yulia, I hear what you're saying. You're praying that Vladimir Putin changes his mind and stops this. So you are hopeful. What does your uncle think about Vladimir Putin? Okay, I will ask him. яке спитали тільки що. Що ви думаєте особисто зараз про Володимира Путіна і те, що робить Російська Федерація?

Володимир Путін з божеволів. Він думає, що Володимир Путін збожеволений. Збожеволений. Його акція, що вони нелогічні, навіть важко думати про його акцію. Його душа збожеволена з дьяволом. His actions, they are illogical. It's even difficult to think about his actions.

His soul is to the full amount with the devil. His soul is full of the devil. And so I think your uncle is not praying for Vladimir Putin. Vujko, I said that you pray for Russia and for peace in Ukraine. And she asks if you pray. He says that he is praying, especially his wife is praying. And all around Ukraine, in different churches, cathedrals, people get together to pray nonstop, like 24-7, for the peace between the countries. How do you feel today about being Ukrainian?

I feel proud to be Ukrainian. Sometimes I start crying, and a lot of questions popped in my head. Why? For what? Why has it happened? Why is it happening right now? And especially when people all over the world, even from the United States, from Europe, when people write to me and they know what is happening. And I feel really proud for my country. I feel proud for my army because people are ready to protect. People are ready to stand.

They are not just former Soviet Union republics. They are part of Russia as Vladimir Putin thinks. And I am sure that now the world knows that Ukraine is not the Ukraine. It is Ukraine. It is without this article that sounds like the former

Russian-Soviet Union. No, it is our country, and I feel really proud of it. And how does your uncle feel about being Ukrainian right now? How do you feel? being Ukrainian right now? Very proud. For now, it is the only

nation. There are no more nations in the whole world which stand with the gun against russian federation when it happened in the united states the 11th of september in new york the whole world was with America. The whole world supported and prayed for America. And today in Ukraine, it is not only two buildings. These are the whole cities, buildings, villages, cities. Yulia, I hope that you and your children and your uncle and the rest of your family are all safe. I really genuinely want to thank you for taking the time to talk to us today.

And we will keep your uncle's number and we will check back in with you, okay? I'll translate for him. My uncle says, sure, if we are still alive. Oh dear, oh dear. Mr. Vasil. Thank you, thank you. Glory to Ukraine. Thank you and glory to Ukraine. Thank you. as they give finance teams unprecedented control and insight into company spend. With Ramp, you're able to issue cards to every employee with limits and restrictions

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What did it look like in the subway station? People sitting around in winter clothes, some with kids, some with pets, just trying to do their best to stay upbeat, stay calm. Everyone was just acting normal, I guess. But it's like everyone knows it's not normal at all. How long were you there for? I was there for a couple of hours. I might go back there depending on the situation. Everything's moving really fast. So we might have to make choices very quickly

if we're going to leave the city or what are we going to do? Igor, is there any bombing or any offensive type action in Kiev right now? There were explosions in Kiev. There were military infrastructure assets that had been attacked, possibly by missiles. My friend in the outer Kiev city woke up to an explosion and a plume of smoke 15 miles from, kilometers or miles, I forgot. There was a fierce battle over the Hostomel airfield that Russia dropped its airborne troops on top of it and attacked it with attack helicopters. Ukrainian troops brought down a few of them. So there is, and we have information that Russian forces are streaming across the Chernobyl exclusion zone and having captured the power plant. And we have news that several, multiple Il-76 transport planes full of airborne troops are on the way to Kiev, possibly to try to behead the government. Are you afraid?

Well, that's a funny question. I mean, obviously, I'm afraid that there's dread in my gut, just like there's dread in everybody's gut. But I'm just trying to do my best to stay sane and focused and rational. OK. What's your understanding, Igor, of how this invasion started earlier this morning? Russia attacked from many places at once. That's why it spent months encircling Ukraine and building up on all sides.

They struck from the sea. They struck from Crimea. They struck from occupied Donetsk and Luhansk. They struck from the north, to Sumy. They struck from occupied Donetsk and Luhansk, they struck from the north, to Sumy, they struck from Belarus. Yeah, they were preparing for this. While it's not a surprise that they struck from all directions, because we've seen them move into position to do exactly that, many were surprised that Russia did in fact proceed with a full-scale invasion, because many thought that an invasion of this scale was

unlike what was less likely than continued saber-rattling, hybrid warfare, and regional attacks. You said that Russian forces are advancing toward Ukraine. That's the information you have to behead the government. What do you think Russia's objective here is? Do you think they want to overthrow Volodymyr Zelensky? I think they want to possibly install a puppet regime. And I don't know how long they plan to occupy Ukraine for. I do think that they want to change the government in Kyiv and install, like I said, a puppet so they could have control over it. I don't know how successful that's going to be. Trainings are pretty united.

There's lots of people have weapons. There are territorial defense units that are training small unit tactics. And just the hatred, just the sheer evil that's... Russians are going to have a bad time, I think. If they stay and try to occupy, like I said to another outlet just now, behind every blade of grass there's going to be a gun barrel,

behind every tree there's going to be a javelin, behind every corner there's going to be a knife in the back. But at the same time uh this also means possibly hundreds of well tens of thousands of lives ukrainian lives that might be lost during this uh bloody uh resistance so i am i don't know how many ukrainian service members died. It seems like the fighting in multiple cities were fierce. I'm sure that many gave their lives. And just thinking about that is very upsetting to me. Vladimir Putin has promised not to target civilians. Is there any credible information that Russian forces

are attempting to avoid civilian casualties? Dozens of civilians have been killed. Rockets slammed into civilian buildings. A child died in that building due to the rockets. There were multiple civilian casualties in multiple cities. And recently, Health Minister Viktor Ryko, said that Russia is deliberately attacking hospitals. I haven't seen independent verification on that, but he's known as a trustworthy man, trustworthy official. And yeah, he says that Russia is attacking hospitals, which is a grave violation of the Geneva Conventions. It's just after 7.30 in Ukraine in the evening right now. Do I have that right?

Yes. Okay. So the sun has set on this day. How right now are ordinary Ukrainians responding? Are people fleeing? Yeah, many have fled throughout the day. There was a big line of cars out of Kiev going out. Some have elected not to leave yet. They're saying, my landlord says that once the artillery starts coming down, then he's going to leave and he's going to bug out with his parents and his kids. So some have decided to stay and fight. There was a general call for everyone who can hold a weapon to come out and fight. So many, many, many men, many women are going to their local recruitment offices to pick up a weapon and possibly die.

Some people are just staying put and seeing what happens. There's a bunch of different strategies that Kiev residents are employing. Everyone that I've seen so far, I haven't seen any panic, just determination, edginess, and really desire to do the best, make the best out of the situation. I wonder what you think about the international community's response so far. Could the United States and the European Union be doing more? Of course they can be doing more. They should be doing everything they can to, I mean, obviously I know that NATO troops won't come into Ukraine, which is upsetting, but I understand that they don't want to fight Russia and cause a geopolitical crisis that might do a nuclear. But we want you to do more, more quickly so that we can stop this mad invasion as quickly as possible. So the fewest possible people are killed and the least possible damage is done. Igor, do you believe there's any hope for diplomacy at this point?

No, no. Russia is, with its actions, what do you mean, between Russia and... Between Russia and Ukraine, if Germany were to get involved, if France were to get involved... Russia has shown that it's a permanently hostile state. Ukraine is now, will never forgive Ukraine is also now permanently hostile to Russia Germany and France I'm sorry but they have no spinal cord they've shown themselves to be

spineless appeasers and they're completely useless and there's nothing anyone can do with diplomacy anymore Putin doesn't care. He's shown that we're past diplomacy at this point. What I've heard from Ukrainians throughout the day is, we don't think the rest of the world is coming to save us. We're going to have to save ourselves. It sounds like you agree.

Yeah, I do. I mean, I hope the sanctions sort of have some kind of effect, but nobody's coming. I mean, Ukrainians are very grateful for the weapons. They're already being used to destroy Russian tanks and helicopters and planes and stuff. Everybody is very grateful for the weapons and sanctions would also be good. But that's right. Nobody's trying to save them. We're just going to have to live or die on our own. Today's show was produced by Will Reed and Victoria Chamberlain. It was edited by Matthew Collette and Sean Ramosfirm, engineered and partially translated by Afim Shapiro,

and fact-checked by Laura Bullard. I'm Noelle King. This is Today Explained. Thank you. you