Today, Explained - Can corruption drive voter turnout?

Episode Date: June 6, 2026

We went to Virginia to report on redistricting. What we found was a potential new message for Democrats to win over voters. This show was edited by Kasia Broussalian, fact checked by Esther Gim, mixed by Shannon Mahoney, video edited by Christopher Snyder, and hosted by Astead Herndon. Voters attending a candidate forum hosted by RVA indivisible at the Libby Mill Library in Richmond, VA. Photo credit Alex Peterson. You can also watch this episode on youtube.com/vox. Listen to Today, Explained ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. New Vox members get $20 off their membership right now. Transcript at ⁠vox.com/today-explained-podcast.⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So the 26 midterms is shaping up to be an all-out brawl. But the biggest fight may not be between Democrats and Republicans, but over the congressional maps itself. The Texas House formally voted to advance a bill that redraws the state's congressional map. In California, state lawmakers approved a new congressional map. Just got a major decision from the Supreme Court on redistricting. Now, I get it.

gerrymandering could be one of those political words that puts people to sleep, or it could be hard to determine what the tangible impact is on everyday people. So today, we're in Virginia to get a temperature check on the fairness of our democratic system, but also to put human faces to this academic problem

and see what people actually think about gerrymandering. Riesas knows a thing or two about great combinations. Chocolate and peanut butter, obviously. But there's more than one way to Reese's. From indulgent Reese's big cups with caramel to crunchy Reese's pieces

and Reese's miniatures, there's a delicious reisses for every moon. It's the same combo you love, just with more ways to enjoy it. So, whether you're snacking, sharing, or just treating yourself, nothing else is Reese's. So I'm in Ashland, Virginia, a small town just outside of Richmond, which is known for his historic train station, its central place in the story of the Civil War and secretariat, the Triple Crown winning horse. Ashland calls itself the center of the universe, and that checks out, because it's the center of the political universe, at least when it comes to the 2026 midterms.

That's because Ashland sits in Virginia's first congressional district, which is one of only about 35 or so congressional districts that are actually competitive. That makes Virginia particularly important when it comes to the question of gerrymandering. Now, remember, Donald Trump started this gerrymandering fight in the midterms, encouraging Republicans to draw more and more safe red seats so that Republicans have a chance of holding the House.

Now, Democrats fought back, particularly in places like Virginia, where they tried to draw a new congressional map that can basically counter what Republicans were doing in other states. In Virginia, voters are heading to the polls Tuesday to weigh in on a ballot measure that could reshape the state's congressional map. Today, it's Democrats pushing for a referendum.

We can now call that Virginia voters have voted in favor of a referendum. Courts struck down that new map, but it's really thrown this whole area into flux. So I wanted to check in with some of the candidates and volunteers who've been at the center of this. Starting with Katie Sidderson, a volunteer from Indivisible Virginia, who's been going all across the first congressional district, talking to people about what they feel and also volunteering. Now, Katie's gone on her own journey with gerrymandering, so I wanted to ask her how she thinks about the maps, but also what's she hearing from people when she's out there.

I used to not be very involved in politics. I have three kids, and that was my focus taking up all of my time. for the longest time. And so last February is the first protest I ever went to. I was always a Republican. So, and until the 2016 is the first time I did not vote Republican. So if I can add it up, it seems like Donald Trump kind of pushed you towards engagement and pushed you out of the Republican Party.

Yes. What have you done now that you've gotten yourself into the political gang? I've been to probably 20 or more protests. I've also planned protests. I also co-started what we call a weekly action RVA. We just started sending out a weekly publication to people so that we give them three ways that they can defend democracy.

I'm going to put a question in front of you that I've asked a lot of democratic politicians and people like that too. You know, democracy was a huge topic in the 2024 election, but it didn't seem like it motivated people enough to reject Donald Trump. Now, you're still focusing on that kind of in the years after because of what kind of has come out of the White House. What is it about democracy and defending democracy that maybe didn't motivate people in 2024

that you might think is different now? Maybe people didn't, you know, like, they didn't think it was really at risk, or it wasn't a big deal, or people are making too big a big deal of it, or you're exaggerating. Now we're in it, And can you see all the things that are happening

and the corruption then, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know if I have a good answer. No, I think it's a fair point. Like some people maybe thought it was an issue in their heads, but now it might be a little more tangible. I think it should be. I mean, or also here, of course,

because Virginia's been at the center of this gerrymandering fight. I wanted to ask you about this. Here's someone who lives in Virginia's first district, which is not only competitive, but was thrown into flux by some of these new maps and the removal of the new maps. Can you just tell me what this last year and a half has been like for you as someone involved

in the congressional race and volunteering? It's interesting, right? Because I feel like for such a long time, the message was drilled, right? Jurymandering is not a good thing. We don't like it. And then all of a sudden, we're going out and volunteering and telling people vote for this,

And so it's kind of an uphill battle to convince people now, not that you're convincing them, now gerrymandering's okay, but then you're trying to explain in this particular situation with these factors, this is what we're doing, and this is why. And I feel like that was a huge challenge. Let me ask you about your own journey on that question. I mean, were you someone who kind of thought of gerrymandering as a no-no and has now been convinced to say it may be some instances?

So, yeah, I definitely don't support gerrymandering, but then I think it was the fact, like the conditions, right? Well, we're not, this wasn't an idea that we just dreamed up. This was a response to what had already been done. And also, it was a vote for the people. So it wasn't just decided on. We're giving the people a vote. Those factors made me feel more comfortable to be able to support it. So if I hear you right, it's sound of sounds like you're saying.

saying you felt like your hands were tied. You felt like in the context of the situation, this was something Democrats needed to embrace. Yes. All right. So now that the court has thrown those maps out, what was the impact then? What did you think when it became clear

that what the people had decided when it comes to these maps weren't going to be the maps in November? It was hugely, just a huge blow to everyone. Because when you work so hard, for a long, you send a period of time, and you feel like you're in your heart, like you're trying to do the right thing.

You really are trying to save democracy and do the right thing. Could you feel that morale hit? Like, what did it feel like? Yeah. Like, everyone is just, it's like, you know, the air out of your sales, right? Like, you're just like, it's just another thing, you know?

And so it's tough. It's tough. Has this had any impact, do you think, on engagement from volunteers, enthusiasm from volunteers? Like, does that morale hit have a, kind of cascading effect? Or is it just a moment?

People are kind of bombed, and you think they'll get back to it? That's the other thing is people start to feel like, what does it matter? Like, I tried, and we're doing all these things, and we even voted. And we set, you know, used our voice, and it still didn't work.

Confirms that kind of negative feeling people already have, that lack of agency they already feel. So then what do I have left to, like, try to get these people, you know, back in it? I mean, I was going to ask you about this because, you know, gerrymandering can be,

such a heady issue. You know, people think about it from its big impact nationally, but necessarily not from people on the ground, or it's like tangible impact. For you, like, how is this experience shaped how you think about our democracy and its fairness? People know if they're not being heard and they're not being listened to. Do you think that's how folks feel now? Yeah. I guess a different way for me to ask maybe that same question is in the last year and a half, as you've gotten closer to the democratic process, has it made you feel like the system is more fair, less fair? I want to say that being closer to it,

like, gives me more hope. It makes me feel, I don't know if that's true. Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's terrible to say. It's not. It's kind of why I'm asking you. Because, you know, it's someone pretty close to it. I'm not sure about it's fairness.

So I guess I wanted to see from your perspective, as you've seen this with fresh eyes, Like, does it make you feel better or worse about the system we've set up? Okay, so the Katie before she ever went to protest, the Katie that used to vote Republican was like, all in democracy. Like, I had no idea, like, what's really going on and what, you know? And so now the closer I get to, I'm like, what is going on? Right? I appreciate learning more about this community, but I also wanted to meet the candidate that you're volunteering for.

We're about to go meet him, right? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, just around the corner, I think. Yep. Around the corner. Yeah. Hi, how are you? Nice to meet you.

I think we're going to head in here so we can talk. Hello, we're back. Thank you all so much again. I'm a lot for you to introduce yourself. Tim Swinsky. I'm one of the candidates running in Congressional District 1 in Virginia. Katie told me about how she got involved in politics, how the last year and a half has made her much more activated and just focused in terms of flipping these seats.

When did you decide to get in the race? Why did you decide to get in the race? I've been working in politics in some form or another for the last 15 years. My first way into this was I was an intern for the Obama for America campaign in 2008. And I thought government work. That's the key to solutions. Worked in the U.S. Senate, worked on campaigns. And then I didn't like what I saw.

So I became a community organizer, an education, economic fairness. I do environmental justice now. And you really can't do what I do and think that this system works. for everyday people. It doesn't. What do you mean? I mean that people get left out in the cold. Unless you can write the biggest check or you have the most money, you don't feel like you have a fair shot in this system.

It sounds like for both of you, the activism is based in frustration or frustration with status quo, frustration with how the current system is set up, and it seems as if like a frustration with people's lack of agency and being able to express how they feel. How much of that would you tie to this question of gerrymandering, the congressional map, and just how congressional districts are drawn up? Look, the jerrymandering is a major problem, but it's not like Democrats drew first blood with this one. Donald Trump doesn't think he should be held accountable by anybody,

so he's trying to change the rules because he doesn't like the game. The Democrats tried to respond in Virginia, and they're trying to respond in California. But, you know, unfortunately, it was too little too late in Virginia. Now, Katie mentioned how she was someone who didn't like gerrymandering, how she thought that it writes the rules in the way that disenfranchise people, that minimize folks' agency and political process as we're talking about.

Like, how do you square that reality with the embrace of a hyper-gerrymandered map by Virginia Democrats? I mean, is it good enough to just say Donald Trump made us do it? The alternative is to say, all right, we gave up, we're not going to fight back. Like, this was an imperfect way to fight back to preserve our democracy

and have some semblance of accountability for this administration, which is actively trying to attack our democracy. They're showing us that they want to undermine our democratic process right now. And we spent months pushing for that redistricting vote. I had to change up my campaign strategy. I was going to move. And it was all worth it, even though it would make it harder for me as a grassroots candidate to win,

because we got to do something in this moment. It's up to all of us to preserve some semblance of decency, dignity, and democracy in this country. That was the imperfect response. Katie, it does kind of sound like you all are saying we save democracy by further making the system undemocratic, though. That is a fair point to make, right? Like, how far do you go with trying to save democracy if the things you're doing are eroding it? It's complicated to say, okay, well, we're going to fight back, and we're going to draw the maps in a way that sort of minimizes some people's voices, but we're doing it for the greater good. But then the conversation I'd have with people is, well, how do you feel about what was already done?

Right? Like, if you're angry at what's happening here in Virginia and the gerrymandering that we're advocating for, were you equally as angry about these other things that Donald Trump is. And so. And so. And so. I'm just going to push back on these constant questions of Virginia being a hypocrite. What they did in Texas, they didn't give the people a chance to vote on it.

What they did in Florida, they're not giving people a chance. chance to vote on it. What they're doing in Louisiana, they definitely didn't give a chance to vote on it. Virginians shows this. And yes, the maps are a problem. And they're always going to be a problem when, you know, just there's going to be backroom deals making maps that strategically disadvantaged one party over the other. But again, I go back to politics is fundamentally flawed and it needs to be, we need to add some remedies to these. One thing to we talked about is, uh, gerrymandering may not be a more tangible concern for people, but you brought up some of the other ones, cost of living. and such.

I was wondering where this issue of corruption landed on the priority list. I know it's a priority for y'all as folks who are engaged, but when you talk to other people, is Donald Trump's open grift? Is that something that motivates action?

Or is that something that's just kind of baked in the cost at this point? For my experience, with everyday people, Republican Jimoket, left, right, everyone between, it's all about affordability. corruption. Now, talking about Donald Trump's corruption is harder to get through, but when we talk about insider trading by congressional members, people hate that. More than what Donald Trump does.

There's a difference. You have to acknowledge where people are at. Most people are not paying attention to politics. They're just trying to get by. They're just trying to live happy lives. They're trying to make enough money. And to talk about the nuances of like, well, he's enriched themselves with stocks, right? That's so far beyond what's right in front of people. What's right in front of people is gas prices. What's right in front of people is the cost of groceries going up. So yeah, it's hard to talk to people about how they're enriching themselves with wealth versus income and all of the nuances of our economy and Bitcoin. Right. Crypto, exactly. But people know a raw deal when they're in front of it. But I guess I was interested in what you

were saying that it does seem that congressional stock trading is a motivating thing. What is the connection between affordability and corruption? It's a couple of things. It's when you see that they're enriching themselves, you don't have to know the nuances of the stock market or insider trading. You just see that they are getting wealthier, while at the same time everybody else is getting, it's harder to live. Life shouldn't be this unaffordable. And if you say, like, yes, it's because of them, but also at the same time they're enriching themselves, that drives people crazy. And that doesn't matter who they voted. And for them, it doesn't matter who they voted for the last election. Is that the right way to think about this? Not just corruption on one side,

affordability on the side, but the combo of people seeing that their lives are getting more expensive as Donald Trump is grifting along the way? I think so. I mean, you have a person who's putting up gold statues and decking out the white house. You know, and... Yeah, ballrooms and the... Yeah, like, I just...

I don't know. It's hard. I just speak for myself. Like, that makes me angry. And I don't know how you wouldn't have a problem with that. Like, anybody. It doesn't matter which president it is and what, you know, what letters in front of his name.

It should anger everybody. Like, why is that fair? That's not how the office was set up. You know, the reason we hear beyond the question of the maps is also, you know, just Virginia won's unique place as one of the few competitive districts. The numbers and history would tell us that midterms are not won and lost for persuasion necessarily, at least when it comes to November, but for which party is more motivated by, you know, where the enthusiasm is and who's kind of how folks are feeling about the president.

We're going to this candidate forum tonight. Tell me what we should expect. Yeah, so we have five candidates who are going to be there to take questions, and then candidates will have to face them and give their best shot and answer. Well, I appreciate y'all's time. Thank you for laying this out, and I'm curious to see what we're going to hear at this town hall, so I'm excited. Yeah, thank you. Support for the show comes from Quince. Summer is here, and that means it's time.

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slash explain and sign up today. That's r-i-p-p-l-i-n-g.com slash explain to sign up. So we're at the Libby Mill Library just outside of Richmond, and we're about to meet back up with Katie and Tim. Now, of course, I want to follow up on some of the themes that they told us earlier, but this is a particularly special event. It is a candidate forum held by Indivisible Virginia, where most of the Democratic candidates running for Virginia's first congressional district will be here taking questions.

So, of course, I want to ask about some of the themes that came up throughout the day. Now, do these activists and volunteers feel just as jaded as Katie does because of the way the maps have put this region into flux? Or are they thinking about affordability and Trump's corruption, like Tim told me. Let's find out. Now, this is one of the few congressional districts that's actually competitive. So what these folks who think here really matters.

I really want to ask them, what's driving democratic enthusiasm right now? Do you mind if I ask y'all some questions, why we wait? Okay, cool, thank you. Part of the reason we're here, as I said, is because of the way gerrymandering has really changed Virginia won, and it's obviously one of the few competitive districts in the country. Did you organize for the referendum?

Are you talking about the vote for yes? Yes, the vote for you. Oh, we were very active. Okay. I'm mostly, I work as a protester with RVA Indivisible, and we had signs out and, you know, we were doing a whole lot to encourage. Are you someone who's always been kind of politically engaged in this way? Were you doing kind of protest actions years ago or things like that?

What changed? What, I wonder what? Trump, the second term. Trump, the second term. Yeah, when you started dismaneling. First term. You said you were out there in the first time. Yeah, you were out there in the second term.

Yeah. Can I ask, like, what was it about this second term specifically that became the more motivating for you? And he started firing people and dismantling the government, for starters, you know. You're talking about those early Doge actions? Like, which, you know, the... That, for starters, got me to my first new king's protest. Okay. You started in those kings.

Yeah, and then I got connected with RDA and divisible. Okay. And had, you know, learned how to protest and participate with them on regular basis. Okay. Okay, one thing we were talking about earlier today was just what issues come up the most. And so some people were mentioned, obviously, affordability and cost of living. But there was a big talk about corruption and feeling as if this government is... Those two things are top of the list of what we talk about with the people I hang out with,

affordability and corruption. I was wondering about that second piece specifically. I mean, you could argue Donald Trump has been corrupt for a long time. Oh, yeah. Well... What do you think it is about now that feels like that issue maybe is resonating more? Because, good question. It's much more blatant and out there, you know, and him disregarding the Constitution at every turn

and doing what he wants without the approval of Congress, you know, starting wars, for example. Is there something you think is more explicit about the second? time around that's made the corruption issue rise in terms of importance? I think the amount of power he's gotten, the amount of control over money that he has. Because that is powerful, awful lot of people. When you all talk about things like corruption, do you think you're persuading new voters, or do you think you're mostly motivating fellow Democrats? Oh, fellow Democrats.

Okay. New voters, if they don't know, they're questioning, but they're not questioning me. Do you think that enthusiasm is going to pick up? Like, do you have, you feel confident that when it comes toward November that you're going to see in a motivated Democratic pace. Yeah. And that's just because. I have to think that or I wouldn't be able to step out for a protest. That makes sense.

I'm saying, like, I guess I'm asking what might motivate Democrats this time around that maybe they weren't motivated by in 2024? Well, because his corruption is that much more apparent and his complete disregard of the well-being of the American public. and he promised to lower prices. No, he didn't care. You're saying you can now make an argument based on his own actions. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's so clear. It's so clear.

Thank you so much. We really appreciate your time. Thank you. We appreciate it. Keep going. Thank you. Thank you, candidates for coming to the front. Very much appreciated.

Hello, everyone. My name is Lauren Natale. I am the event coordinator for RVA Indivisible, and we have a very full program this evening. I'm here to describe that to you. We passed that redistricting referendum, and it was a hard sell. Our side does not like gerrymandering.

We like fairness. We like rule of law. I know I had to convince myself, my husband, my parents, and most of my friends one at a time to vote yes, and we won what looked at times to be an imposterone.

race. We can't let this stop us. We've shown what we're capable of. We've built the networks. We've learned the tools. Now let's keep up the push through the midterms. One of the current Democratic primary candidates for Virginia's first will replace Rob Whitman in Washington. We've invited them here to meet RVA Indivisible this evening. This is our opportunity to get to know their policies and positions and hopefully each of you can can pick one that inspires you enough to volunteer for them. My name is Salam Bhattie. I'm a public interest lawyer.

But before all that, I was a child of immigrants. I still am a child of immigrants. Thank you all for being here. We say that joy is the best resistance we have. Hope is not a dirty word, and it feels a lot better when we all have that together. I am unapologetically progressive, another grassroots Democrat who doesn't take any corporate money.

We need mandatory ethics, things that like of mandatory town halls, ban insider trading, making sure people have to answer to us, not big donors. I have spent my career working and talking with Republicans because you might be shocked to know that a majority of people in my service were Republicans. We'll go ahead and take some questions from this. So we're wrapping up our day just outside of Richmond, Virginia, in the first congressional district and have three big takeaways from spending our time here. The first is, of course, about the math.

Not only did the change in congressional districts so confusion among the electorate, wasting valuable time and energy from volunteers and candidates, but it also reinforced a feeling of powerlessness among the electorate. Folks feel as if they just don't have agency in our democratic system, and that democracy is on life support.

The second big takeaway I had is about the message of corruption. Democrats are talking more and more about this issue, and the reason why is that it cuts across a unique slice of the electorate. This is something that they don't think just motivates their base, but can reach out to independents and Republicans who voted for Trump on a more economic front. That's the third thing that I found really interesting.

Democrats aren't just talking about corruption for corruption's sake. They're combining it with their message of affordability, and I think that sweet spot is what they're going to focus on in November. Their argument is that prices are rising for most Americans. At the same time, Donald Trump has put it for sale sign in front of the White House. in front of the White House. And they think that issue specifically can not only motivate Democrats

to come out in the midterms, but can pick off enough independence and Republicans that they could even be successful in places like Virginia's first. America Actually is on YouTube every week with an interesting interview in politics or culture. You can also listen to America, actually, wherever you get your podcast

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