Today, Explained - Charlamagne tha God on Biden v. Trump

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

A recent poll shows almost a quarter of registered Black voters would vote for Donald Trump. We ask Charlamagne tha God, author and radio host of “The Breakfast Club,” about Black voters’ dissatisfaction with the Democratic Party. This episode was produced by Hady Mawajdeh, edited by Miranda Kennedy, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Patrick Boyd, and hosted by Noel King. Transcript at vox.com/todayexplained Support Today, Explained by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

An influential poll from The New York Times and Siena College last month showed that 23 percent of registered black voters said if the election was held today, they'd vote for Donald Trump. Now, this is a big deal. Black voters historically vote Democrat overwhelmingly. Yesterday, I sat down at South by Southwest with Charlemagne the God. Charlemagne commands one of the largest young black audiences in the country as co-host of The Breakfast Club. And he's become known for his blunt and provocative interviews of politicians and his critiques of Joe Biden and the Democrats. I'm the type of person, I feel like as a Black person, I don't see how we're beholden to either one of these parties. I don't understand these Black conservative crazies and I don't understand these black liberal crazies either. I think as a black person, you shouldn't be beholden to any political party in this country because we haven't really seen, I mean, Democrats have done more, but we haven't really seen anybody

systemically help us get out of the situation that we're in, because I think that's something that people never truly address. Charlemagne Tha God, coming up on Today Explained. I am Bracton Booker. I am a correspondent at Politico and also the author of the recast, which focuses on race and policy and politics. My focus is mainly on voters of color, in particular Black voters. They seem to be, on some level, up for grabs this election cycle. And you know, that has different meanings depending on who you're talking to. Black voters are obviously the backbone of the Democratic Party, but there are polls that show that there may be some slippage among Democrats as far as Black voters are concerned. A recent CBS News poll shows 77% of Black voters would back the president in a potential general election rematch with former

President Trump, down 10 points from 2020. I am concerned that so many of our community are feeling that some of the issues that are more relevant to us are not being addressed. You use the words up for grabs. And we think about an election. You know, we'd assume every block of voters is up for grabs. And yet baked into what you're saying is the kind of the idea that black voters don't have to be competed for because they will vote Democrat. Where does this idea come from? What's it grounded in?

Well, it stems from the fact that Black voters have been so loyal really since, you know, the 1960s and the Civil Rights Movement that Black voters have voted overwhelmingly Democrat no matter who is on the ballot on the Republican side of the ledger. But what you're seeing now in the modern era of politics is, while that still is largely true, we're seeing that Trump has actually made some inroads with Black communities. And polling coming into 2024 is showing that Black voters are saying, at least to pollsters, that some 20 to 23 percent are open to voting for Trump. And look, it could be the difference in swinging the election for Donald Trump if folks don't show up and vote for a Biden-Harris ticket. And it's still unknown how much like an RFK candidacy or a Cornel West or Jill Stein is going to be this year. But the fact that voters have options and we're seeing protest votes kind of emerge among the Democratic faithful. It's a win for President Biden and Michigan's Democratic primary, but the results signal discontent among Democrats over the president's foreign policy.

The ballot option, uncommitted, earned more than 100,000 votes. It's really unclear about where these shifts are going to be and how impactful they're going to be on 2024. Now, you were recently at Mar-a-Lago for Politico. What do you hear Donald Trump trying to do to appeal to black voters? Look, he has said some things in recent weeks that has given some people heartburn. Even the sneaker thing. I was on social media last night. Very interesting. As you see, black support eroding from Joe Biden. This is connecting with black America because they love sneakers. They're into sneakers.

They love the, you know, this is a big deal, certainly in the inner city. We're going to remember sneaker con, you know that. But the fact that he is trying to ingratiate himself with black voters saying like, look at all this, the criminal justice system, look at the legal system. They're coming after me just like they do for you guys. Look, I don't know if that message hits home, but maybe for some, it actually does. I was a part of a polling group of Black men, and some people said that, yeah, I think these cases that are against Trump, they're politically motivated. So there is some empathy that is going on among Black men in particular. I don't think

it's widespread, but look, like I said before, you just need small percentages to change their mind or feel like their lives were better under Trump than they are under Biden. But the Biden Harris has a message to sell. They will talk to you ad nauseum and give you laundry lists. The president promised to help Black families build wealth. He's done that by, one, just overall lowering costs. He promised to invest in Black small business owners and entrepreneurs, and the rate of Black business ownership has almost doubled. He promised to invest in Black communities overall. Black child poverty has been cut in half. He increased Pell Grants. 60% of Black students can now afford colleges. Those grants go into them, invested in HBCUs. I mean, the list goes on and on. The problem is, I think they are having trouble connecting that to how

that is improving certainly all Americans' lives, but certainly Black Americans' lives. So if they're focusing too much on the past and not enough on the future, then folks are going to be like, hey, you know, I remember what my pocketbook felt like when Donald Trumbull's in office. Donald Trumbull's a much better salesman about policies, whether or not he deserved credit or not. We rallied activists and faith leaders and law enforcement and lawmakers alike. We worked across party lines very strongly. After all of the work and effort, we passed the bill, and I proudly signed it into law,

the most significant criminal justice reform in many generations. To ensure that working Americans impacted by the virus can stay home without fear of financial hardship, I will soon be taking emergency action, which is unprecedented, to provide financial relief. But look, on the other side, I think Democrats have a much bigger and broader set of accomplishments that they can sell. Obviously, they're going to point to the vice president being the first Black woman, first Asian woman, first woman to have that post. He's diversified what, you know, the government

of America looks like. He appointed Justice Katanja Brown Jackson as the first Black woman on the Supreme Court. And he's put more Black women on the federal courts than any other administration. And I think that folks are going to say, look, our job is not complete. We have to continue the work that we've not complete. We have to continue the work that we've been doing. We have to finish the job. I think that if we allow Donald Trump back into office, he is going to roll back the progress. So they're both trying to sell this message that, look, there's a lot of unfinished business on both of our ends. Trump supporters say, like, our administration got cut short. We will rout the fake news media.

We will evict Joe Biden from the White House. And we will finish the job that we so brilliantly started. It was doing so beautifully. And you're hearing sort of the same messages from the Biden camp as well. We made a lot of progress because of all of you. But there's more to do. So let's finish the job. People have been looking at these polls and asking if we're at a point in history where Democrats can no longer count on the black vote. If that's the case, it would be a very big deal,

which is why I think people were asking the question, but nobody really wanted to answer it. Let me ask you if you're comfortable answering. So you're going to put that question on me now? Is that what you're doing? I sure am, Bracton Booker. Okay, wow. Politico's Bracton Booker. You know somebody for a long time and look at you, look at you. You just put me on the spot here. Look, I don't think there is a major realignment where Democrats have to worry that large numbers of Black voters are going to abandon this party.

But I also think there are lessons learned from 2020. There are a lot of pronouncements made by companies, made by politicians, made by business leaders about how much things were going to change after George Floyd. And I think that, you know, if folks are keeping receipts, they're like, man, I don't know if I got all that return on all that investment y'all said you were going to make. And so I think people are just being a little more cautious and a little more judicious about where they are going to put their alliances, right? Like, folks know that their vote counts. Folks know that Biden absolutely needs them to show up. And so because they know that, and because the polling is showing that he is down and also losing support among his

strongest base, folks are like, well, what does my vote get me? What are you going to promise me? What are you going to deliver for me and for my community? And I don't know if all those answers have been provided sufficiently for a lot of voters. Coming up, my talk with the man who's been asking those questions very loudly, Charlemagne the God. So Thank you. AuraFrame to make it easy to share unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame. When you give an AuraFrame as a gift, you can personalize it, you can preload it with a thoughtful message, maybe your favorite photos. Our colleague Andrew tried an AuraFrame for himself. So setup was super simple. In my case, we were celebrating my grandmother's birthday and she's very fortunate. She's got 10 grandkids. and so we wanted to surprise her with the AuraFrame, and because she's a little bit older,

it was just easier for us to source all the images together and have them uploaded to the frame itself. And because we're all connected over text message, it was just so easy to send a link to everybody. You can save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFrames.com to get $35 off Aura's best-selling Carvermat frames with promo code EXPLAINED at checkout. That's A-U-R-A-Frames.com, promo code EXPLAINED. This deal is exclusive to listeners and available just in time for the holidays. Terms and conditions do apply. At South by Southwest in Austin yesterday, I sat down with Charlemagne Tha God. Now, if you're not familiar with him, he's host of The Breakfast Club.

It's a show that has millions of listeners. It's a morning hip hop show. But Charlemagne has also become known for these probing, direct, disarming interviews with elected officials and candidates that have kind of vaulted him into a position that's typically reserved for a few top journalists. Last year, for example, he interviewed Nikki Haley while he was fill-in hosting on The Daily Show. He's got a very big reach now. You know, I'm a very curious person. Like, my mother was an English teacher in South Carolina, and she always told me when I was young to read things that don't pertain to me. And so being that she told me that I would read everything from the Source magazine, XXL magazine, the Mad Judy Bloom books. And so it's the same thing when I'm sitting around, you know, watching any of these elected

officials. I'm just always wondering, like, why aren't they asking the most obvious question? That's how I always used to feel when I used to see people interviewing different celebrities, like, why aren't they asking that question? So it's the same thing with politics. The Democrats recognize Charlemagne's influence, and they've been frustrated by his critiques of President Biden. He says Biden has no, quote, main character energy, and he questions whether Biden can win in 2024. When I invited Charlemagne, he asked to bring along his close friend Angela Rye. Angela hosts the Native Land Pod. I was born to an activist and an educator, and I was always taught

that I had an opinion, and whatever I wanted to do in this life, I could. I think I've tried my best to make my parents proud and the culture proud. The culture to me are Black folks. After working on Capitol Hill, the Homeland Security Committee, the Congressional Black Caucus, Maxine Waters' office, Angela became a TV commentator. I still don't really know how that happened or why. It never was a goal of mine and ended up adopting this lovely individual as a brother. Now, like the Democratic establishment, Angela also has some critiques of her friend Charlemagne and how hard he's gone on the Democrats, which you're going to hear. But I started by asking Charlemagne about one of his most viral moments. It's 2020. Charlemagne the God is interviewing candidate Joe Biden.

And you're trying to get a couple more minutes with him. You're telling him, hang on, hang on, like, don't don't end the interview yet, which is something every interviewer does. The candidate tells you, you know, you've got two minutes left, and you say, no, give me 10. And at this point, candidate Biden makes the statement, if you don't know whether you're for me or for Trump, you ain't black. I am very curious what went through your head as an interviewer when candidate then candidate Biden said that exactly what I said to him in that moment like you know it's not about Trump it's about me wanting to you know make sure that the Democratic Party is going to show up and do things for our people I didn't even disagree

with his statement because I think what he was I hate trying to say what white people are trying to say but what I what he was trying to say was like, if you're black and you vote for Donald Trump, you're voting against your interests. So this is before Biden is elected. In that moment, did you believe that to be true? What, that if you vote for Trump, you're voting against your interests?

Yeah, I believe that to be true now. You believe that to be true now? Absolutely. Okay. Sometimes people aren't sure. I mean, this is the thing. People will say Charlemagne is critical of President Biden. That means he is directing his audience toward Donald Trump.

Yeah, I think we really insult black people, especially we insult our own intelligence when we make those kind of statements, when we say things like you can't be critical of whoever the elected official is and still know what's in our best interest to do when we get into the voting booth come November. All right. So we have all been watching the polling last couple of months. And one thing that we've all seen is that President Biden does appear to be losing some segment of black voters. What do you think is happening here with President Biden and his support in the black community? Has he done something wrong? Has he failed to do enough right? This is always when I hear this, people say this nowadays. I'm like, why are they just focusing on the black voters?

Because for a long time it was a gimme. That's that's why for a long time it was a gimme. I think that's overstated. I don't see 23 percent of black people voting for Donald Trump. I could be wrong, but I don't I think it might go up, but I don't see 23%. But I think that it is one of those things where we are not, we end up talking about this and then black voters are to blame in November if that's what ends up happening. So I don't think that that's fair. Again, we've carried this country long enough, right? But I would say that it's not about what Joe Biden himself has done or not done for black people. I think this is about an institution, an establishment that has regularly failed folks who look like me, folks who feel voiceless and unseen. You get questions about this because, well said. You get questions about this, I think,

in part, again, as a radio person myself, because you take calls on your show, which means you have this intimate connection with people that- It's the best. It's so cool. But it means that people sort of ask you to be a representative of the people that you're hearing from who call in. And I'm asking you now to do the same thing. I want to know what you are hearing from people that is undeniable this year about this election. The biggest thing is, you know, my guy Tim Ryan, he talks about the exhausted majority. And he says he feels like, you know,

most people in this country, they're not leaning to the left, they're not leaning to the right. They're just tired. So I think it's up to, you know, both candidates right now, but especially, you know, Democrats, how are you going to energize those people who don't want to get up off the couch in November? So that's the biggest thing I'm hearing from people. They're just tired. Like they're just fed up with the political process all across the board. What do you think Biden has gotten done? What do you hear Biden has gotten done? Just student loan forgiveness is a big one, forgiveness is a big one. Honestly, that's the biggest thing I've

heard people from our community talking about because people like to see tangible things. They like to see things that absolutely they can touch and they can feel. When people wonder why folks keep bringing up these stimulus checks, it's because it's something that they could actually touch and they could feel and they could see. I think it's the same thing with the student loan debt forgiveness. But outside of that, I personally haven't heard much. When you say tangible things, I hear the economy. That's it. That's literally all it's ever about. When they ask people, well, what do black people want? We want the same thing everybody else wants in this country, upward mobility, money. People like cash. Cash rules everything around me. That's been's been the money that's right it's been like that since the beginning of

time this is where we disagree too though but it's but it's true there's nothing we can talk about on this stage that money doesn't revolve so it's not just money that we need we need safety we need we need the same folks who are there to protect and serve other communities to protect and serve us, not shoot to kill. I want a Department of Justice that serves us. I want some folks that are really aggressive on the voting rights cases. Like this is a big deal that he's not he's not going to be able to get to the finish line in November if they don't really start taking these voting rights issues really seriously. The voter suppression is going to be so real come November. And Democrats' only

defense against voter suppression historically has been, we've got to have the largest voter turnout in the history of America this election. I don't know if you get that in 2024. So if you don't get a large voter turnout, how are you going to stop the voter suppression? Truthfully, I think one of the criticisms is even saying something like that could lead to people sitting home and staying on the couch. You're not advocating anyone to sit home and stay on the couch. Angela's nodding her head, so I didn't make this up. I tell her this.

You have so much influence. You say it, and there's a genuine fear that that might make it real. I disagree. What are you basing your disagreement on? Because I think that if these elected officials were doing what they were supposed to be doing for the people, it't matter you know what somebody like me says if if if literally me just having these conversations because the only thing only question i've ever asked you know that is considered critical is are they still a winnable ticket come november i think

that's a very valid question to ask if we have a threat to democracy on the other side. Like, what's wrong with asking that question? Are they still a winnable ticket? When you look at the polls, when you look at the approval rating, what's wrong with asking that question? When David Axelrod said that, nobody says anything. When what's the guy who wrote the article for The New York Times? Ezra Klein. When Ezra Klein writes an article like that, nobody says anything. But when the black guy from the hip hop station in a hoodie says something, then everybody has a problem with it. Any power that I have is derived from the people. I'm literally only asking the questions that I hear everyday working class

people ask of me when they call into the radio station in the morning, or when I'm walking the streets of New York, or when I'm home in South Carolina, these are the things that I'm hearing people say. I'll give you an example. I remember back in January when I was having a conversation with Fox News, and the guy said to me, hey, do you think the border is going to be an issue come November? And I said, hell yeah. And the reason I said hell yeah is because for the first time, I'm having people that I talk to on a regular basis come to me and they're having these conversations. You have people in Chicago, you have people in New York complaining about the resources that they feel the migrants were getting that, you know, people in the community that have been there forever aren't receiving. And you literally had MSNBC run a headline that says Charlemagne

the God is pushing MAGA messaging. Now, two months later, that's all everybody's talking about is the border. So literally my answer came from talking to people, regular everyday people, like not listening to no politics, you know, what a campaign strategist said. This came from the people. So how is it MAGA messaging if it's coming from the people? If people think Donald Trump is stronger on the border, if people remember getting stimulus checks for Donald Trump, if people think Donald Trump and the Republicans take crime more seriously than Democrats, that 23 percent, that doesn't seem unrealistic to me. Some of the things you're saying— We got to stop saying that in regards to black voters, though. Like, when you look at

Joe Biden's approval ratings, he's getting his ass kicked everywhere. It's not just black people. It's fair. Yeah. So I think that, you know, in order to really get that campaign on the right track, they got to start looking at the totality of what's happening with that campaign and how different groups of people feel about him. In 2020, you endorsed Joe Biden. This year, you have not made an endorsement. You hear how Angela speaks. You hear what your friend, your very well-informed friend says is at stake. Are you going to endorse anyone this year? No, I'm endorsing democracy, though. I think that you should go out there and, you know,

you should vote to keep this democracy, democracy alive. So, you know, as clear as day, all you got to do is, you know, and we're not even talking hyperbole when we have these conversations. We got some pretty good examples, you know, of what he's capable of. I don't know, January 6th, 2021 was a pretty, you know, pretty cut and dry situation. Like, you know, that was an attempted coup with his country. And then, you know, you also have a man who doesn't believe in the Constitution. Like, you know, when you say you should suspend, you know, the Constitution to overthrow the results of an election, you know, you have his lawyer saying, well, he didn't, you know, sign up to say he was going

to support the Constitution. That kind of tells you where we're going. Alright, Charlamagne Tha God, Angela Wright, thank you guys so much. Guys, let's give him a big hand. Thank you for coming out today. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you, Noel. Thank you, Noel. That was Charlemagne, the God, live on with Angela Rye at South by Southwest last night. You also heard Quentin Fulks of the Biden administration listing some of Biden's

accomplishments in the first half of the show. Thanks to the team on this one, Hadi Mouagdi, Miranda Kennedy, Laura Bullard, Patrick Boyd and Rob Byers. I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained. explained. you