Today, Explained - China’s young and restless

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

China’s ambitious youth planned to cash in on their country’s meteoric rise on the world stage. Instead, many of these 20-somethings are disillusioned and “lying flat.” Economist Nancy Qian explains why. This episode was produced by Haleema Shah, edited by Jolie Myers, fact-checked by Serena Solin, engineered by Cristian Ayala and Patrick Boyd, and hosted by Sam Sanders. If you liked this episode, check out Sam’s pop culture podcast Into It from Vulture and the Vox Media Podcast Network: https://bit.ly/intoit-tex Transcript at vox.com/todayexplained Support Today, Explained by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, I'm Sam Sanders. I usually host the Pop Culture Podcast, Into It. But today, I'm guest hosting Today Explained. This episode, the youth in China. They're kind of in a weird spot right now. For decades, it seemed China was on this path of endless growth. And so, just a few years ago, the youth of China thought they'd have it pretty good. But that's not really happening right now in China. The youth unemployment rate is currently around 20%.

And lots of young people there are rejecting China's extreme hustle culture. If you feel just done with life and have zero motivation to work hard anymore. There's even a term for this. That is called 躺平, literally, to lie down flat. It refers to someone who can no longer be bothered to study, get a job, date, get married. This episode, are the youth in China okay? Or really do anything. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings.

Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. Today, today explain. Nancy Chin has written about China's youth unemployment rate. Today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, today, when I was young in primary school with my parents. But she went back and visited most summers. She's got tons of family and friends in China, which means she hears a lot about what young people they are going through right now. And it's a lot.

The unemployment rate for the youths in cities is sky high. One out of five Chinese workers between 16 and 24 years old are not finding jobs that they want. These numbers are so bad that the Chinese government recently announced it would stop publishing them. But the young people actually experiencing this, they know what's up. Recently, we're seeing Chinese youth make decisions that are somewhat surprising to the previous generations. Some of them are choosing just to not work and stay home. Some of them are choosing to take jobs in lower-paying sectors or government jobs

that previously, a few years ago, they would have eschewed for higher paying private sector jobs. We're hearing a lot of complaints about the 996 work schedule. That's 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., six days a week. I just want to stop right there and say that again. This is what is expected in China. You work 9 a.m. to 9am to 9pm 6 days a week And the kids are saying No no no more of that

That's right 996 is the standard work schedule For the urban Chinese At least in the private sector That is the standard You're lucky to get a job like that Jack Ma one of China's richest men A giant in tech

996 is the street That I encourage in Alipapa people. If you want to have a bright future, if you don't want to be given up by the society, if you want to be successful, you have to work hard. These kids, I'm going to call them kids, these youths, they just graduated. You know, they've worked so hard their whole lives. They've sacrificed so much to get through this incredibly competitive education system. China has one of the most competitive systems in the world. 32 days left for college entrance examination. Competition is fierce as it is across much of Asia and is considered make or break for every student's future. You know they stop playing, they give up

playing, they just study, study, study, take these intensive exams. It's easy to see why these images have gone viral. Chinese high school students connected to intravenous drips hanging from the classroom ceiling to help them study. Because of great study pressure, getting up early and going to bed late, it is helpful to take amino acids. And not only have they made sacrifices since they were children, but so have their parents and their grandparents, all to get them through university so that they can get a high-paying job

in a prestigious or happening sector, and these jobs just aren't there. There are a lot of manufacturing jobs. China figures that half of them are going to go unfilled over the next couple of years because young graduates don't want factory jobs. So there's this misalignment between the supply of highly educated, skilled workers and demand for them. The economy essentially hasn't caught up. And the jobs that are there, they pay a lot less, not even enough to cover rent.

So then you have a lot of Chinese youth, many of whom have college degrees. They're saying the jobs that I would want to take, they're not really there. There are other jobs I could take, but I feel like I'm overqualified for it. Also, you want me to work too hard. Also, you're not paying me enough. And like, it's not just that they feel this way. It's so strong and so deep. China has named this phenomenon, right? It's called lying flat. Lying flat in Mandarin is tangping. Recently, it's been used to describe this individual and personal rejection of societal pressures and in particular the 996 working hour system. Lying flat is a labor protest movement in China, which is basically the Chinese youth revolting against the deeply ingrained culture of hard work and choosing instead to live simply, cheaply, and stress-free. I really want to lie down and lie flat, and I don't want to do my job,

and don't want to achieve something. It's an anti-materialistic lifestyle, and striving for nothing more than what is absolutely essential for one's survival. Wow. And so then you end up with, and this blows my mind, there's another phrase, a lot of these wealthier young people who have finished school but can't find the jobs they want, they've become, quote, full-time children. And their families and parents kind of pay for them to stay at home and just help out with the household or do caregiving work for elderly members of the family. Wow. Wow. Full-time children.

Has a nice ring to it. What's going on there? A lot of the young that aren't able to find jobs are just moving home and living with their parents. Tia Yi's typical workday begins at 9am. She goes with her parents for a morning walk and accompanies them to the market for a grocery run. She then prepares lunch for the family before taking an afternoon nap. Jia Yi is 31 years old and lives in the city of Hangzhou in eastern China. And the way they see it, you know, no one's happy with this, but the way they see it is that they're looking at jobs that are offering 7,000 RMB per month, for example. That's how much, you know, a nanny who comes from a rural area to

the city, that's how much they make. So after all the sacrifices they put in and also with their expectations, they just don't want to take these lower paying jobs. And in the meantime, they do have parents and families who are able to support them. Her retired parents pay her a monthly salary of 8,000 renminbi or around 1,100 US dollars. That is around 20% less than what she says is an acceptable salary for graduates in her city. I mean, one thing we want to keep in mind is that the current generation, no matter how bad unemployment is or how bad the

problems are when we talk about the chinese economy the current generation is orders of magnitudes richer than any previous generation in china at the same age or at an older age even just because of the phenomenal amount of growth that China's experienced. So their families can afford to keep them at home. Do the young adults who become quote-unquote full-time children enjoy it? I'm sure you can find someone who's happy about it, but I don't know anyone like that. China's a big country. I don't want to speak for everyone. But every young person that I know or that I hear about, no one's happy about it. I would say the best way to describe it is that they're in a funk. When you talk to these quote-unquote full-time children, when you talk to

people who are quote-unquote lying flat, what are they telling you about what their life is like and how it feels? So here experiences vary a lot. I just spoke recently to a young woman who decided to move to our hometown in the West, away from Beijing. And the reason she did this was because she was getting laid off from her private sector job. She has an accounting degree. She's 24. And she's getting laid off, or she was offered a much lower-paying job. But that wouldn't have been enough to cover even one-fourth of rent in the city center of Beijing. So in the end, she decided to go home to the West, where her parents have a smaller business, just to help her parents out and to help them take care of her elderly grandparents. And she felt like this was the best way for her to repay

her parents and to help them out and her family after everything they've given her. She's really finding a silver lining and making the best of it. Another young woman I know in Shanghai who happens to be my cousin, she's actually looking for a job now. She's just having the hardest time. You know, she graduated from a pretty good university two years ago. Then she got a master's degree overseas. And in past years, 10 years ago, this would have made her very desirable in the job market.

But right now, she just can't get a job. For every job she interviews for, there's 40 other applicants. And behind closed doors, the people who are making the decisions to hire, they're very open about how they just don't want to hire young women. And the reason is because China doesn't have enough babies. So the government has a lot of policies recently to encourage fertility rates. So now you're allowed to have three kids. This is wild because for the longest time you could only have one and that was the

policy. From great-great-grandmother down through five generations, this family is a perfect example of China's population crisis. There's only one great-great-grandchild. So these children who are all only children who've had so much pressure on them growing up are now the ones who can't get jobs. But now that they're on the labor market, a lot of employers are thinking, well, maybe you guys will have three kids. And with all this maternity and paternity leave, that comes out to many, many years of miswork that we have to pay for as a company. And the way that Chinese culture works, they think, well, if you're a guy, you're just going to work and your wife and your parents will take care of the kid. But if you're a young woman, you're not going to work. And since it's a buyer's market when it comes to hiring,

they just don't want to hire young women. Because they think they're going to lose them for years anyway when they have children. Yeah. Wow. And this is an open secret. What do the older folks in China think of all of this? And what do government officials think of all of this? And what do government officials think of all of this? It's kind of not in line with what I think China's leadership's mission for the country is.

Older people and families are torn. On the one hand, they're the ones that put in so much resources and time and money so that their children, grandchildren can be successful in this really competitive school system. All of this was so that their kids can get really great jobs in cities. So they're really disappointed. I mean, they're just as disappointed, maybe even more so than the youth themselves.

So on the one hand, they just feel really bad for the kids and they have the resources to support them. On the other hand, they also feel very at loss about what to tell the younger generation because this idea of not working goes against their own values. China was very, very poor only 30 years ago. In some places, 10 years ago or even now. And for the grandparents' generation,

when they think about 50, 60 years ago, where they came from, really all of their values are about doing whatever it takes just to survive. So if there are jobs, and there are jobs in China, they just don't pay as well. So for the older generation, their own work ethics are such that, you know, if there is a job that gives you bread, you just take it.

You just take the best job. 996, like whatever. We didn't even have ours before. You know, you just do whatever it takes to survive. Yeah, in my day, they were walking uphill both ways to get to work and they didn't complain. That's right. Yeah, I hear that. Chinese youth are frustrated.

Chinese parents are concerned. Coming up, we find out what their government thinks about all this. Support for Today Explained comes from Aura. Aura believes that sharing pictures is a great way to keep up with family, and Aura says it's never been easier thanks to their digital picture frames. They were named the number one digital photo frame by Wirecutter. Aura frames make it easy to share unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame.

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. The Chinese government has talked a bit about the youngs and how they're feeling. And the message has been, buck up, get to work. This lying flat thing, unpatriotic. So that's one way to motivate people. Nancy Chin says the government is taking this seriously, though. The Chinese government is very concerned about youth unemployment, and they should be. Every country that has high youth unemployment

rates is very concerned for economic and social reasons. China is facing an inevitable economic slowdown. China's yuan is at a 16-year low, and the country appears to be experiencing deflation. Economists say these are signs China could be facing an extended economic downturn. You know, it was growing at 10% per year for decades. Everyone knew that it had to slow down. Now it's slowing down to 3% to 5%. And that's a really healthy number. The United States and European economies grow at three to five percent on average when things are going well. So there's nothing wrong with three to five percent. That said, a slowdown from 10 to three to five will mean less jobs. And that's what we're seeing now, that a lot of those job reductions are happening for the youth. The population in the meantime is aging.

So there are fewer younger workers and older workers. So more than ever before, it needs a generation of very productive young workers. So the fact that these young workers can't find jobs and that they're unhappy or disillusioned or depressed, it's just not a good thing for the government. It's probably safe to say that Chinese leadership didn't expect for China to end up in this position because for decades, the story of China's economy was boom, boom, boom, you know, beginning in 1978.

That's when Deng know, beginning in 1978. That's when Deng Xiaoping was in charge. Today, he's known as the architect of modern China for the major reforms he pushed through. You know, this era of reform and opening the Chinese economy to the world, it was incredibly successful. China kick-started a 45-year transformation that took it from a largely agricultural society to the economic powerhouse we know today.

From 1978 to now, according to the World Bank, 800 million Chinese people were taken out of poverty. Millions of people in rural China have been relocated to apartment buildings in upgraded townships. Here, almost everything is new, including the roads and the schools. And we see now a China that is strong on the world stage and can compete with America. Beijing leads the world in 37 out of 44 critical technologies and is in a position to become the world's top technology

superpower. The United States leads in just seven critical technologies and is in a position to become the world's top technology superpower. The United States leads in just seven critical technologies, including space launch systems and quantum computing. How unexpected is where China's youth are right now and what it says about the economy? Did anyone see this coming? For decades, economists and policymakers inside and outside of China have foreseen the slowdown of macroeconomic growth. Everyone knew that 10% wasn't sustainable forever. Ten years ago, the World Bank, together with the Chinese Standing Council, co-wrote a report called the China 2030 report. And in that report, they explicitly state that they expect China's growth rate to slow down to 8%

and then at some point 5% by 2030 at the latest. Wow. So the writing was on the wall. That said, what wasn't clear was when the slowdown would happen, how fast the slowdown would happen, and where it would happen how fast the slowdown would happen and where it would happen so a lot of people expected that uh the high skilled sectors like tech finance pharmaceuticals biochemical engineering that those are the sectors that would have kept growing or you know grew more than others and what's really surprising in the current scenario is that those are the sectors that are getting hit the hardest, which is contributing to youth unemployment because those are the sectors that college graduates were hoping to work for.

What will it take to fix this? The youth unemployment problem is complicated to fix because it's an outcome of many different factors that are interacting, economic, societal, cultural. And to make it better, a couple of different things need to happen, and they will happen. So one is some of the youth will just end up taking lower paying jobs. Some youth will stop looking for jobs and drop out of the labor force. And then, you know, from the part of policy, from the part of the government, the government really needs to focus on how to encourage investment in the private sector or even in the state sector. It just really needs to focus on how to give people a sense of confidence in the economy, not implement policies that freak out investors or businesses. You know, when I hear you talking about Chinese 20 and 30 somethings having a bit of malaise and checking out. A lot of it feels very particular to China's

economic reality right now, but also there are generations of folks across the world who feel like they're never going to get what their parents had no matter how hard they work. Are Chinese youth saying something about hustle culture and stagnation that is really just specific to China? Or are they really saying things that a lot of youth across the globe are feeling, even if not to those extremes? I think with the Chinese youth are feeling this disaffection and this disappointment that they can't be as successful as they hoped they would be, no matter how hard they work. This is a pretty common feeling for youth around the world.

The main thing that pops out to me when I think of the Chinese youth that's different from other youth is a sense of loneliness because they don't have siblings. The only child situation is unique to China and this generation of Chinese. You know, even when I think of myself, I'm a product of the one child policy. I don't have any siblings, neither do my cousins. But because China was poor when I was young, we lived in these large traditional extended family structures. So I was very close to my cousins and I didn't really understand that they weren't my siblings. When I think of my family, I think didn't really understand that they weren't my siblings.

When I think of my family, I think of a big, big family with lots of cousins. But for the current generation, because people were richer, they were able to afford larger living spaces, their own homes, and live as nuclear families. You know, the side effect, the unintended consequence of this was loneliness for the children. They didn't have cousins to grow up around anymore. It's really just one child, you, your parents, maybe your grandparents. And also that intense studying, it means that the neighbor's kids aren't even around to play. Everyone's just studying alone in their own apartment.

And I think that loneliness is unique to the current Chinese generation, and it's hard. I did not think that this interview about the Chinese economy was going to prompt me to give my brother a call and say, I love you, but I think I'm going to do that once we're done. Well, I wish I had siblings, and I made sure to have two kids when I started having kids of my own. Nancy Chen is an economics professor at Northwestern University. Our show today was produced by Halima Shah, edited by Jolie Myers, engineered by Christian Ayala and Patrick Boyd, and fact-checked by Serena Solon. And again, I'm Sam Sanders. I host another podcast you might want to check out. It's called Into It. It's from Vulture. On this show, we talk about pop culture and entertainment and all that fun stuff. Chance the Rapper all about the state of hip hop right now it was so so fun go check it out

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