Today, Explained - Debate 6: Enter the Wine Cave
Episode Date: December 20, 2019The sixth and final Democratic debate of the year was less diverse, more substantive, and also featured a fight about a wine cave. Vox's Emily Stewart explains. (Transcript here.) Learn more about you...r ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Transcript
Discussion (0)
Emily Stewart, Vox, last night, the sixth Democratic debate,
very awkwardly timed between the president getting impeached and Christmas?
Yeah, but even more awkward maybe is that it was on the same night as the Miss America pageant,
which a lot of people probably don't even realize still exists.
I had no idea that was going on, but I'm guessing more people probably watched Miss America than the debate.
Which did you end up watching?
So I kind of watched both, but if I can be honest, I did spend some time on Miss America.
Talented,complished Principals As I was watching, I kind of thought, you know what, a lot of these answers sound kind of similar.
So since I watched both of them last night, I decided to make up a little game.
I bet a lot of people wouldn't know what came from a pageant contestant, although now they call them candidates at Miss America, and what came from a presidential candidate.
They're both candidates?
Yeah.
They changed it now because Miss America is trying to be better.
They got rid of the swimsuit competition.
They now have to have a social impact initiative.
Obviously, all these women are still beautiful, and this is about beauty, but Miss America is trying to be a little more modern.
So did you make this game? Did you actually execute? Indeed, I did. And this is about beauty, but Miss America is trying to be a little more modern. Hmm.
So did you make this game?
Did you actually execute?
Indeed, I did.
It is on the Vox.com website.
Can we play the game?
Yeah.
So let's do it.
So basically what I'm going to do is read a quote to you and then you tell me, do you
think it came from a presidential candidate or a beauty queen?
Okay, cool.
All right, so the first one.
America needs a champion right now, and I'm that champion.
That's actually good. Wow, that could really be either.
I'm going to say that's from last night's debate.
Nope, it was Miss Connecticut last night.
Hit me with another.
All right.
I really wish I could have that one back.
The world needs America, but it can't be just any America.
It has to be one that is actually living up to the values that make us who we are,
supporting peace, supporting democracy, supporting human rights,
and supporting stability around the world.
Ugh.
I feel like something like that was said
at the debate last night.
Can I go debate again?
And that is correct.
That was Pete Buttigieg.
Yes!
All right, you ready for another one?
Yeah, I'm ready.
I'm still pissed about the first one.
Did you know that every eight minutes,
a parent or caregiver makes a medication error that affects a child?
I don't remember that.
I'm going to say pageant.
That is correct.
That was Miss Virginia.
You're doing pretty well.
Thank you.
So now we are going to do prior years.
And I think these ones might be a little bit easier.
They're like pretty well known, but maybe not. Who knows?
Alright,
so I was told I didn't
smile enough.
Well, if they're well known, it's got to be debate, right?
I kind of
gave it away.
That was Carly Fiorina
in 2015.
But obviously a lot of women have heard that, and I'm sure plenty of the Miss Americas have.
Sorry, Carly.
And then our last one, who am I and why am I here?
That is 100% debate.
Who am I?
Why am I here?
And I 100% forget who said it,
but it was very funny at the time.
Right.
So that was Emerald James Stockdale.
He was a 1992 independent vice presidential candidate
who was running with Ross Perot.
Oh, that's right.
That's right.
Oh my gosh.
Vintage.
In my defense, I was seven years old
and lived in another country.
But yay. So that's the game, right?
It's fun and it's not as easy as you would think.
Yeah, I'm really glad you came up with this game because, I mean, in addition to being fun,
it shows that pageants aren't as dumb as you think, debates aren't as smart as we'd hope,
and at the end of the day, they're both probably more about TV ratings than they should be.
But I should say that last night's debate was better than I think all of the ones that
preceded it. It was almost never obnoxious. And there were really substantive questions
and discussions. And obviously, it also helps that there were only seven people on the stage
and we're getting closer to the primaries actually starting. And you started
to see that kind of come out last night. And we should talk about who the seven people were. So
it was Klobuchar, Biden, Steyer, Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, and Andrew Yang. So what we saw start
out as this very diverse field with multiple people of color, lots of women, a few billionaires, is now six
white people and one Asian guy. And credit to the PBS and Politico moderators last night,
they actually asked Yang directly about this. What message do you think this sends to voters of color?
It's both an honor and disappointment to be the lone candidate of color on the stage tonight and
he also used it as a moment to talk about race in america and the fact that you know people of color
being excluded is emblematic of a broader issue and really pivot toward his message and the question
is why am i the lone candidate of color on this stage, fewer than 5% of Americans donate to political campaigns.
You know what you need to donate to political campaigns? Disposable income.
The way we fix it, the way we fix this is we take Martin Luther King's message of a
guaranteed minimum income, a freedom dividend of $1,000 a month for all Americans, I guarantee if we had
a freedom dividend of $1,000 a month, I would not be the only candidate of color on this stage
tonight. Thank you, Mr. Yang. As I mentioned at the top, the debate sort of was awkwardly timed.
It came one day after the president was impeached and just a few days before everyone heads off on
vacation for the holidays. They had to lead with impeachment.
Did anyone actually say anything interesting?
They kind of led the last one with impeachment, too.
Yeah, I mean, not really.
It's awkward to talk about impeachment if you're running to replace the president.
Like, you want to make more of a positive argument for yourself versus like,
well, maybe the Senate should get rid of him and then I'd be running against Mike Pence.
Well, let's talk about some of the positive moments that people made for themselves.
One of the first questions that seemed to depart from the usual sort of boilerplate of trade and the economy and climate was about this thing that Barack Obama said this week, which is essentially like the world would be a better place if more women were in charge.
Is that fair paraphrasing? Former President Obama said this
week when asked who should be running countries, that if women were in charge, you'd see a
significant improvement on just about everything. He also said, quote, if you look at the world and look at the problems, it's usually old people, usually old men, not getting out of the way.
And I think the question went to Joe Biden first.
Like, what do you think of that, Joe?
Right. Well, it went to Bernie and Joe Biden.
And it was like, OK, like maybe ask a woman on the stage.
And Amy Klobuchar made that point when they turned it to her.
And she was like, thank you for asking a woman this question. Then Elizabeth Warren did too, but they framed it to
her. Senator Warren, you would be the oldest president ever inaugurated. I'd like you to
weigh in as well. I'd also be the youngest woman ever inaugurated. To kind of make a point that
both her and Klobuchar have made, which is like, hey, we still have not had any women presidents.
And this is nuts.
That was a nice moment because everyone got to kind of have a laugh.
And almost soon after that, we had a first really contentious moment of the evening.
And it was about wine caves, I could say with a straight face.
Absolutely.
So, yes, 75 feet down.
Caves are wonderful, first of all, for wine.
So there's many things, the temperature, the humidity.
It was about wine caves, Emily.
What is a wine cave?
I guess it's where rich people keep their wine.
So basically this wine cave thing kind of kicked off when our colleague at Recode, Teddy Schleifer, found on Instagram some of these pictures of a Mayor Pete fundraiser in California where there is this wine cave and a chandelier with Swarovski crystals all over. And so obviously, like, there's this broader question
within the Democratic Party
about how to deal with wealthy donors.
You know, Elizabeth Warren is not taking any money
from big donors, same with Bernie Sanders.
And Mayor Pete really has embraced
some of the bigger fundraisers.
And Pete made the argument that he needs the money,
whereas a lot of the candidates on stage don't
because they're independently wealthy.
You know, according to Forrest Magazine,
I am literally the only person on this stage
who's not a millionaire or a billionaire.
So if...
This is important.
This is the problem with issuing purity tests
you cannot yourself pass.
If I pledge never to be in the company of a progressive Democratic donor, I couldn't be up here.
Senator, your net worth is 100 times mine.
And he also pointed out that Warren, for her Senate campaign, has done fundraisers in the past.
And this is sort of a new stance for her.
But these two have been kind of going back and forth for weeks.
So it's not surprising that this would come up.
Senator Klobuchar kind of shut it down by saying, like, guys, we're not here to fight.
Let's move on. Let's make progress.
But then moments later, she was taking shots at Pete herself.
Yeah, Amy Klobuchar yesterday really came out fighting.
And she was really going after Mayor Pete.
You know, I don't think Amy likes Pete very much.
I don't think so either, Emily.
When we were in the last debate, Mayor,
you basically mocked the 100 years of experience on the stage.
And what do I see on this stage?
I see Elizabeth's work starting the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
and helping 29 million people. I see the vice president's work in getting $2 billion for his
cancer moonshot. I see Senator Sanders' work of working to get the veterans bill passed across
the aisle. And I see what I've done, which is to negotiate three farm bills and be someone that
actually had major provisions put
in those bills. So while you can dismiss committee hearings, I think this experience works. And I
have not denigrated your experience as a local official. I have been one. I just think you
should respect our experience when you look at how you evaluate someone who can get things done.
Thank you, Senator. Mr. Mayor, I'll give you a chance.
She kind of made the point with him that like,
hey, young man, like sit down
and listen to some of these people and respect them.
Yeah, it was kind of a big night for Klobuchar,
a big night for Yang.
I liked a lot of things about the debate.
I didn't love the moving background
that was kind of hard to stare at.
I didn't love that a lot of the more diverse candidates
had disappeared, but I did like fewer people and better questions and more substantive conversation. And whereas all the
other debates opened with health care, it's become so monotonous and cliche. This one ended with
health care and like ended with a fight on health care. Yeah. so yesterday you did see Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders
really kind of clash over health care.
And, you know, this was really like a really unique moment.
You have two guys who are sensibly the front runners.
And making sure that we're able to cover everyone
who is in fact able to be covered.
Put your hand down for a second, Bernie, okay?
Just waving to you, Joe.
I know, I know.
Say hello.
I know. Say hello. I know.
And they really did, you know,
have a pretty substantive argument
over their different visions for healthcare.
You know, Joe Biden has basically said
he wants to build on Obamacare,
build out a public option,
and Bernie Sanders obviously is a huge proponent
of Medicare for all.
He always says, I wrote the damn bill.
But last night he did not,
that was not like his big line. Last. They really got into it and tried to draw some clear separation between themselves. And you really got to see how they both think about
the issue of health care very differently. It covers everybody. It's realistic. And most
importantly, it lets you choose what you want. Here, you have 160 million
people who negotiated their health care plans with their employer, like many of you have. You may or
may not like it. If you don't like it, you can move into the public option that I proposed in my
plan. But if you like it, you shouldn't have Washington dictating to you, you cannot keep
the plan you have. Thank you, Vice President Biden. Senator Sanders, 45 seconds to respond.
Under Joe's plan, essentially, we retain the status quo.
That's not true.
No, that's not right.
That is exactly true.
Thank you.
And, by the way, Joe, under your plan, you know, you asked me how we're going to pay for it.
Under your plan, I'll tell you how we're paying for it right now.
The average worker in America, their family makes $60,000 a year. That family is now paying $12,000 a year for health care. 20% of the income under Medicare for all, that family will be paying $1,200 a year because we're eliminating the profiteering of the drug companies and the insurance companies and ending this Byzantine and complex administration of thousands of separate health care plans.
And it was a reminder that, you know, despite everything we've been through this year, the front runners in this campaign are still Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders.
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Matthew Iglesias, Vox. I was just talking to Emily Stewart, Vox, about last night's debate and how
after everything that's happened this year after Mayor Pete and Beto and Kamala and Castro and
Bloomberg and Marianne Williamson, after all that, when it comes down to the polls, it's still
the Bernie Biden show, which is to say the continuation of Obama versus a new lefty socialist politics for the Democrats, which is to say that after all of this, this is basically the 2016 race all over again.
Obama's legacy versus Bernie.
Right. I mean, and that's not to dismiss Warren, who's in third place in the polls, or Buttigieg, who is doing well in the fundamental way or should they stay the same?
And a lot of people, you know, Harris, Booker, people who seemed very promising at one time
or another, and part of what felt promising about them to people who are sick of these
tensions is they thought, OK, well, maybe we can turn a page on this, right, have a
new generation of leaders.
But most of the electorate, it turns out,
gravitates toward Biden or to Sanders. And that kind of basic tension inside the party remains
quite robust. And if you had one issue that sort of captured the essence of that tension,
I imagine it's the issue that most of the debates started with. It's Medicare for all
versus what might be called like Obamacare
plus, huh?
Exactly.
And you see, you know, Sanders and Biden argue about this.
You also saw a whole bunch of candidates initially come out for Medicare for all.
I think assuming that by co-opting one of Bernie's signature issues, they could co-opt
his supporters.
When it turned out that, you know, that wasn't going to happen, right, that the Sanders
constituency is very loyal to him, that started to lead Cory Booker,
Kamala Harris, maybe even to an extent Elizabeth Warren, definitely Pete Buttigieg, to back
away from that idea, right?
And so it's in part a debate about policy, but really the policy debate is also about
the people involved.
It's about the Sanders movement and its viability, the challenge it poses to the establishment.
And you've seen the different candidates' struggles to navigate those waters, how profound the divide really is, and how little interest there sort of was in bridging it.
What does that actually tell us about what voters feel about, say, Medicare for All or Obamacare Plus? Is the support for Biden over Sanders
a statement of support for Obamacare Plus over Medicare for All, or is it more personality-based?
I mean, I don't think it's personality-based. It's in part about the issues and the specifics of,
you know, free college, Medicare for All. But I think a lot of it, and you saw this going back
to Clinton Sanders, is feelings about the Democratic Party as an institution.
Sanders voters, they tend to have a negative assessment of the Democratic Party and of the
political system as a whole. They're younger on average, and they are angry. They like that
Sanders is so oppositional to the system.
Then on the other hand, you have a bunch of people who are loyal partisan Democrats, older, blacker than the Sanders constituency.
They think the Democratic Party is good.
They support Democratic Party leaders.
Joe Biden, like Hillary Clinton, is a top figure in the Democratic Party firmament.
They trust those people to do the right thing and to try to navigate difficult politics correctly.
And they want to keep them in charge.
The Sanders people don't see it that way.
They are afraid of their interests being sold out and they want a new group on top of the pile.
And there's still about an eight-point gap between Bernie and Joe Biden in national polls.
Does Bernie have any tricks up his sleeve to close that gap? You know, one advantage Bernie has is that he is stronger in Iowa and New
Hampshire than he is nationally, right? So if he can pull off an early win, he may get a boost
nationally, sort of cruise to victory. I also do think an edge he has is a couple topics on which
Biden and Obama are not on the same page. That's the
Iraq war and also a bankruptcy bill that Biden did in 2005. Those are opportunities for Bernie
to expand his constituency, you know, beyond the sort of hardcore anti-establishmentarians.
Another thing that Bernie taps into that is Obama-like is that he has very much a message of hope and empowerment,
right? Sanders, you know, if you ask me about him, a lot of cranky DC people say, you know,
he's telling people he's going to do things that he can't really do. On the other hand, I think a
lot of people, you know, to get involved in the process, to come out and vote, to come out and
volunteer, they want to feel inspired. They want to believe that their activism can make a huge difference. And Sanders does paint that picture, which to me is reminiscent
of Obama back in 2007, 2008. It makes you feel good about yourself to believe in the Sanders
cause relative to Democrats who are telling you like, that's never going to happen. That's not
going to pass. We've got to be realistic. That's a kind of bummer message.
The fact that President Trump, you know, called up Ukraine and asked President Zelensky to
investigate Joe Biden seems to suggest that President Trump would prefer to run against
Bernie Sanders. Do we have any idea who between the two candidates would fare better against
Donald Trump? You know, in head to head polls, it looks like Biden does better than Sanders. Do we have any idea who between the two candidates would fare better against Donald Trump?
You know, in head to head polls, it looks like Biden does better than Sanders.
The gap between the two of them is not huge, though. And these kind of early polls,
they have some predictive value, but it's not enormous. So I think it's it's hard to say. I
mean, you can speculate. But I think realistically, the biggest issue out here is that Trump is not very popular,
which makes him vulnerable, but his strength is concentrated in the key electoral college states,
which makes him hard to beat. And there's not that much more you can say beyond it,
other than that Trump's actions and people's assessment of them will probably matter more
than what Democrats do. It feels like the Democratic Party right now can't really afford to be fractured. There's a lot of talk about, you know,
this is the most important election of our lifetimes, etc, etc. And yet the choice that
seems to be in front of this party is between a moderate Obama type and a Democratic socialist
who has, you know, what would be considered radical ideas to a lot of Americans.
Does that bode very badly for 2020?
I think it's not ideal.
I mean, like a lot of D.C. inside type people, I who maybe wasn't around for the Iraq war vote or didn't support it. that people have fallen, not everyone, but a lot of Democrats into these kind of old grooves,
these old lanes that were laid down in the 2016 primary. And even though it would be sort of
convenient to like move beyond that or avoid it, to a large extent, that same fight is just still Matthew Iglesias hosts the Weeds podcast along with a couple other Vox voices.
They will be covering last night's debate on their show today,
If You Just Can't Get Enough.
I'm Sean Ramos from This Is Today Explained.