Today, Explained - Fantasy draft: 2028 presidential race

Episode Date: August 1, 2026

Journalists Astead Herndon, Don Lemon, and Kara Swisher hold a fantasy draft to find out who has the best shot at becoming president in 2028. This show was edited by Kasia Broussalian, fact checked by Sarah Schweppe, mixed by Shannon Mahoney, video edited by Christopher Snyder, and hosted by Astead Herndon. Flags are displayed on the lawn of the National Mall with the U.S. Capitol Building in the background. Photo by Kevin Carter/Getty Images. You can also watch this episode on youtube.com/vox. Listen to Today, Explained ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. New Vox members get $20 off their membership right now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Presidential races are always messy, but 2028 is shaping up to be our messiest presidential campaign yet. It's poised to be the first open contest for the presidential race for both parties since 2016. And already, there are a ton of names who are rumored to be thinking about throwing their name in the mix. People like AOC, Kamala Harris, or outsiders like George Clooney, who, of course, made his mark in the last Democratic presidential campaign with that op-ed, calling for Biden to drop out. And on the Republican side, of course, there's J.D. Vance. But what about Marco Rubio, Marjorie Taylor Green, or if Donald Trump runs again? So today, I wanted to host a little fantasy draft.

I'm going to start cutting out some of the faces who are most likely to be selected. Now, I do think that outsiders are a good choice to be on this list. I also think that you got to have candidates that speak to the black base. Kammer Harris, Wes Moore, in perfect circles. We have Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and even some of the Trump heirs like Donald Trump Jr. And to help me draft, I wanted to invite two of the messiest people I know, said with love, of course, Vox podcaster and journalist Karras Swisher, and independent journalist and political commentator Don Lemon. They're going to help me sort through two important questions.

Who are the most likely people to be the presidential nominees in 2028? And what name should you take seriously? Let's the game. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu, it's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier,

CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odu for free at Odu.com. That's ODOO.com. The first ever all-electric 2026 Subaru Trail Seeker is the EV for the Trail Obsessed, with up to 444 kilometers on a full charge and DC fast charging

from 10 to 80% in about 30 minutes in ideal conditions. Plus, ample ground clearance and symmetrical all-wheel drive make the 2026 trail seeker the most capable EV Subaru has ever built. Test drive it at your local Subaru dealer or visit Subaru.ca. Welcome to our 2028 presidential campaign fantasy draft. I'm happy to have my guest here, Tara Switzer, and Don Lemon. Do you all want to know a secret? Yes.

I invited you because I thought this might be a messy presidential campaign, so why not invite the messiest queens I know? Oh, my God. Excuse me, instead? Excuse me. Listen, this is... That's a title you should carry. There's also one presidential candidate here, too.

Oh, listen, maybe you're going to announce too on this show. Maybe we'll get two. You know, this is a show that is focused to charting America's political future after Donald Trump, and you cannot do that without 2028 presidential candidates. To this point, we've been focused on policies, issues, trends across the midterms. But now it's time to talk about people.

And we're going to do that with a little bit of a high-stakes game. Now, we're going to have a full. fantasy draft. Have either of y'all played fantasy sports? No, because the queens. I'm like, that's a little straight boy concert. You're just a gay man and a gay woman. Like, what do you? And a gay woman who ate sports. So go ahead.

So we'll explain this for the un-initiated. We're going to each choose a draft pick. And the goal would be to make a team that is the most likely to have the 2028 presidential nominee or maybe just someone generally on the ticket on your team. Now, we'll all get four selections. And then at the end, we're going to look at each other's teams and think, who do we think has the most likely group of four that will include a member of the president? Do we just grab?

No, no, no, no, no. They're steps, friends. Don't. Don't. Don't think about it. Now, we have to decide who goes first, so we made a little bucket. We're going to pick one of these three shovels, and they'll have an order about one, two, or three, and we'll figure out who's going first in terms of our selection. We're not just having physical throwdown because I'd win. Oh, my shoe would kick me out. I would actually just concede, so, you know, you're right.

All right. Okay, all right. You can do first, though. The bucket. Number one. How dare you? As always. See, I got the shaft. I got it in every.

Let me just say again. Listen, look at this. You know. We're number one. I'm taking this guy. Also, we have our first draft pick selection. Kara Swisher is selecting Marco Rubio with the first pick in our 2028 fantasy draft. Tell me why.

Well, he has all the. charm of a wet towel, but I think he's the safest choice, and I think Donald Trump is veering towards him. That's what I think. This is an interesting first speaker, of course, it means you're betting that there's some rift that emerges between Trump and Vance. But I think there's a rift already emerging between Trump and Vance. And I think that Rubio wore the shoes better.

The mandated Trump shoes. He wore them best. But I would think out of, he is, he is the bona fides, right? Or bona fides, however you want to, whatever you want to pronounce it. He's qualified-ish to be. president. He's definitely the most qualified. He's a most qualified person, I believe, on the... I hear all of what y'all was saying. I sometimes think Marco Rubio's kind of like a Democrats' version of Republicans, though. Like, I wonder if Marco Rubio's, uh, willingness for foreign

intervention or even advocacy for things like Cuba or Venezuela are things that are popular among Republicans versus something he was just able to convince Donald Trump. But he's an old school Republican. He's an old school. He's an old school. He was on the immigration gang. He was. Before he abandoned it, he definitely was. But that shows him. He was. his lack of, you know, he's like a, what's one of those spatch cocked? He's spatch cocked. All right, all right, Todd, you're up. I'm going to say this looks like Tuker Carlson, but I'm going to say Tucker Carlson. He's saying Tucker Carlson, that is the second name selected in our fantasy draft. Let us add it to the list. Now, tell me why you're choosing Tucker Carlson.

Because he has a platform and in this day and age you need name recognition. A platform helps someone who is social media and digital media savvy. He has all of that and he has great influence among Republicans and the MAGA folks, even though he's criticizing the president right now, they still like him. He still has clout. He is still drafting off of the Fox News fumes when he was very pro-Trump. He has the MAGA credibility while also kind of creating his own length. He's also a chameleon. I was just going to say that. He also has, he's trying to appeal to moderates, independents, and perhaps Democrats right now. And it is, it appears to me to be extremely obvious he's doing it.

Yeah. But some people think there's a subtlety there. You know, often you listen to him or her recently and massate and you go, that makes sense. But then you're like, wait a minute. And now, are we talking specifically because of his criticism about U.S. relationship with Israel and Iran war? Is that where Tucker Carlson has made his lane most clear? The corruption. I think he's spoken out against the corruption.

The Epstein Files. The Epstein Files. It's just he's a, he's a, he's a, he's willing. willing to be a little dyspeptic in a way that's effective. Okay. But we also remember when Tucker Carlson was normal, normal-ish, when he was on CNN and he actually related to people. So he still has that.

So he can get back to that. He could get back to that. So I'm a little surprised because I expected J.D. Vance to be the first pick selected here just because of the sheer coalescing around him that we've seen from Republican Establish. Jay Vance is an empty vessel. He talks a lot and talks fast, but he says nothing and he stands for him. With the third pick of this fantasy draft, I'm taking JD Vance. Oh, no.

Because... Let me tell you. He has the charm of a cyber truck. This is not a bet on J.D. Vance's personal charisma, but it is a bet that he's the one who has a foot in both worlds. Both the most likely, I think, Donald Trump endorsement and kind of support from the inside of the White House, while he's also made the The podcast circuit, made the Maga Rounds. He's the Dan Quail of 2028. People, Democrats don't like him.

Moderates, independents don't like him. This is not choosing the next president. But that's a Republican nominee. So he's not even making it there. I did not expect J.D. Vance to be this controversial of a pick. Like, I do think he, him and his family and kind of, their kind of like young Maga Kamalaat thing they're trying to do has a resonance among some of GOP base.

And so I think some of these other candidates, have to overcome skepticism from the Trump pro crowd, he starts from that place. And so that's why I'm going to select J.D. Van. He will block him. He will block him. So y'all are saying you're just, you're confident that Donald Trump is not going to endorse J.D. Vance. I think he knows cringe. And I think cringe is the brand of J.D. Vance. And he doesn't like cringe. Interesting. I'll let you have the last word on that. He does not want to be followed by that guy. All right. So you're up next. You tell me what's going to be your second selection for your presidential. For your, for your presidential. Where are you going next?

Ooh, RFK Jr. As the second election for Kara Swisher and our 28 Republican fantasy draft, why RFK? I can't stand him. But I think he's appealing. I think he's a Kennedy. He's got a thing. Even despite the jeans, working out with the jeans thing, which is grotesque and sweaty balls kind of thing, I think he has an appeal. Kara, ew!

Didn't you think sweaty balls when you were watching that? I was thinking, I was thinking swamp eggs. Yeah, I thought restricted. And sweaty balls. Swamp ass and sweat and sweaty balls. I think he has, he's got a certain charisma. Again, I think he gets the Kennedy thing and people still, it still works. What question?

It does feel a little bit as if RFK Jr. has receded once in the administration rather than the central figure he played in the election campaign. You still think, though, that kind of maha credibility he came in with is a legitimate political force? I do. I do. I do. I think it's, I think they're mad at him over the glycophonate, whatever you call it. Like, whatever. Round up. But I do think he's, as crazy as he is, I think he's got a chance. So I get to pick now. Yep, you're up. Don, tell me where you're going next. Ooh, we have Thomas Massey selected for Don't limit. That is a bold choice. Tell me why. Because he has, has garnered lots of credibility among independence and some Republicans, because of the U.S. scene files. I think he's conducted himself very well. And I think that his, what is it, foibles,

is that right? He can self-correct. He can disavow some of those things and say, that's the way I thought then. Like if he comes out and he says, look, people should be able to marry who they want. I've evolved on same-sex marriage, much like Barack Obama did. People will believe him. Kind of like AOC. I wouldn't compare them, but AOC is moving. Pivoted. She's evolved. She's evolved. And so is he. He is moving that way. And I think that the scale. have come off of his eyes in relation to his own party. Interesting. Do you think to my point I asked earlier that a Donald Trump critic could survive a Republican primary?

That's the problem because I pick him in a second as an appealing winner. This is a 2028 winner, but the Republicans won't let him win. Okay, so I am up next and we have had some surprising selections. Now, you all are really going for outsiders here with RFK Jr. and Thomas Massey. I think my second pick is going to be Donald Trump himself. I think that the likelihood of a third run is not zero. No, you're supposed to say a non-zero chance. A non-zero chance.

And to the point about Republican willingness to up in Democratic norms, basically isn't anything he says. In the terms of playing the odds, I might go with Trump blowing up our democracy and having himself a third turn. Is that a crazy big? No, no, not at all. I mean, look at what happened with birthright. citizenship. They send it to the Supreme Court. Maybe they'll send, you know, the presidential

amendment to the... Well, that means Obama comes back. Yeah, I do think that just means we get ourselves battle war, yeah. By the way, fucking Clinton could run out. I know. We don't want that. Can I just say, I think he's not going to be living? I'm going to say that. I know it's controversial. This is coming from the longevity expert. I'm just saying, I don't know if he's not going to be living. I don't think he'll be well enough to be well enough. Well enough. He's too old. Biology is undefeated. 100%. We've now gone through. We've now gone through. We've now. We've now. We've I think what are the top choices of people's thinking about Republican. So we're now getting to the also-ran.

And I think these are kind of interesting to see you're thinking about where you think the Republican Party might go next, right? So this is a somewhat thinking about long-shot options. Go ahead. You pivoting off of Trump running. No, it'll be her. Oh, I think that's a good choice. He'll pick her. So Kara's picking Ivanka Trump.

I don't think he'll run. I think he'll push her because he. Donald Trump Jr. A cyber truck two right here. And all manner. of personal things that aren't appealing like. He thinks he's appealing. And I know he's popular with the base.

I get that. But that's because of the shining light of the king. I got to say, I like the Ivanka pick. I thought that I thought about that one in our last round because I do think obviously she's Daddy's favorite. And also, I think, has some appeal. She does. She does.

Albania is not good for her. I remember in the Georgia suburb after the 2020 election. And there were rabid Ivanka fans in those kind of like college, college educated women. She could have the Riz he has. I think she's pulled back by this Albania thing isn't good. She's laid low in the second learn.

That was an environment you can't be. I saw an island on the shelf and I just bought it, right? No, that wasn't good. She had played it well. She was played it well. Figured out. Until Albania.

Okay. Don, who's your heart? I'm going to ask, I'm going to get some of your opinions on this. Okay, because people who will survive a primary in order to become, I don't see any of these people so I am torn between him who's kind of a normal person

and him because he's not a critic. So he could actually be a... Oh, so God. So he's torn between Glenn Youngton, a rich businessman who could fund some of his own campaign or something like that. The Magas will be behind him. Because he has a Maga credibility. He's got MAGA credibility.

All right, now that y'all have taken some of our top options, I think I'm going to go... I'm torn between, to Don's point, someone who has a little mage of credibility and maybe a dissentist. I'm going to go Brian Kemp. Oh. B.K. B.K. I'm going to go Brian Kemp,

the Republican governor of Georgia, because there is a universal agreement about his competence, about Republicans and others. And for someone who was in the crosshairs of Donald Trump about election denial, he didn't fully blow that relationship up and he remains popular in an important state.

So I'm not sure whether that's something he would be interested in, but I'll get to add BK to this list for my third selection. Carrie, you're kicking us our... I'm going to go a different direction. Marjorie Taylor Green. That's a good choice.

In the midterms, because they're going to be like, hold the fuck on. We need an anti. We need an anti. Interesting. Who is acceptable to us, too. Who we liked before, and Donald Trump took us down the bad roads.

Yeah. It's interesting because... She still has America First Gang. She has America First Gang. With her, but I wonder whether the her and Trump fight was so explicit that she can come back with that group, but I think it's a good choice. If he loses big enough, she'll start to look like a fucking genius.

Interesting. Right? I told you so. She's got a big I told you so there. That's true. That's true. All right, last round, Don? This depends on the midterms.

And the size of a lot. This is the last round? This is the last hour for Republicans. Yeah. Okay. So it's between these two. Trump Jr. and Glenn Yonkin. Yeah.

So I think Trump would pick. his own son over Glenn Yonkin. But does he, can he stand on a stage and deliver a speech without sounding like an ass? I'm going to go with Glenn. Glenn Duncan, selection for Don who rounds out his team here. Now, it's interesting. We have, I'm looking at the kind of gender split here.

Both me and Don have all male teams. We have Kara with Ivanka and Marjorie Taylor Green. Yeah, the masochely blind spots jumping out. Kara hadn't chosen Marjor's Jail Green, I would have picked her, but I don't think she has a chance in hell. I'm just saying if the midterms turn out the way they could. She looks good. For the last pick of our draft, I too am torn. I am going to be an ally. No, I'm just kidding. Sarah Hoverby Sanders is my last choice. Just because I think there is a kind of sleeper desire for newness.

And I do think that her period is White House Press Secretary. did her a lot of good with that Republican base. How would she do it in Argus? I don't even know. From what I hear, she's quite liked. Okay, so we've come to the end of our Republican fantasy draft of candidates, and let's check the teams. Kara Swisher's team includes Marco Rubio, R.K. Jr., Ivanka Trump, and Marjorie Taylor Green. I like that. Mix of insider, outsider, cabinet official, Trump family. Don Lemon's team has Tucker Carlson, Thomas Massey, Ted Cruz, and Glenn Yonkin.

He's going for the boys. The white guys. He's doing all the way. White guys. A congressman. Because John Lemon famously likes it. And then mine is going to include our Vice President J.D. Vance, President

Donald Trump, Brian Kemp, the Republican Governor of Georgia, and Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the Arkansas government. I'm so glad you guys with diversity. Look at all the black people up there. They're all white. What are you talking about? Coming up after the break, we tackle the Democrats and what to take away from

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That's O-D-O-O-O-com. Now see Spider-Man. A face with a threat. That can be anyone. On the biggest screen possible. You got to come with me. I don't know if you're the real Spider-Man. I promised that I would keep you saying.

Fine. Spider-Man, brand new day. Now playing. And now we are going to do the Democratic side. Now, who is going to be the next Democratic nominee? And of course, we got to acknowledge the elephant in the room. We have a possible president. candidate in the room with us as well.

I'd have to say if I was being objective, I would be in the mix. Don, you can choose first this round. No, no, why does he get to? I won. I was going to switch it off just to make sure everybody leaves happy. You could go second, though. I'm happy to go there. No, you can go. All right, Garrett, by consensus, your vote, you're going first.

So who will be your first pick in the Democratic candidate fantasy draft? I'm going to tell you, I think there's several really great candidates. It has to be a guy, unfortunately. I think 2020. And you don't have Gina Ramando here. We don't? We can add that name to do? Let's add Gina Romando here.

But I just interviewed her and I think she would be incredibly qualified for the run. But even I think she understands that the donors are not going to go out on a limb for a woman. You think that the impact of 2016 and 2024 is so clear that it's going to be a mass. Many of the women candidates and people and donors have told me they're going to back a white guy. Like, that's what they seem to say. I don't like it, but that's it. So that's why you got to go with this guy for it. Oh, Gavin Newsom, the first election in our Democratic 2020 fantasy draft.

And certainly the leader of the PAC when it comes to the white guy primary right now among Democrats. This could go really fast because I got boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and I'm sure Kara's the same way. Okay, so I'm just going to give a little analysis here. So I think, you know, qualified. Andy Beshear, qualified. Qualified. John Ossoff, good performance. I'm not sure yet. I like him a lot. George Clooney, sure. I think he's qualified. Oh, I think that Josh Shapiro is thoroughly qualified.

That's when my mother likes. Except he's Jewish. And that's not for me. I'm not, but you know what I'm saying? John Osop's same thing. And we have the whole Israel thing happening. Same thing with gay. Pete Buttigieg, of course. He's like, he's brilliant. He's gay. And there's a reality Check's being dropped early in this Democratic fantasy draft. He has a diversity issue, which is kind of a double whammy, right? You're saying it's harder for him to win over black Latino votes, huge in the Democratic primary. So I will say, I got the whole thing picked out.

But I'll tell you why if I picked out. Interesting. I like it. I love it. I love it. AOC, Congresswoman Alexandria, Cassio-Cortez is the first selection for Don Lemon's fantasy team. Why?

Because the energy in the Democratic Party is on the progressive side. For sure. And she is on the progressive side. but she is not yet quite a democratic socialist. Not that that's a bad thing. She kind of. But I don't think her views, as we, as we said earlier, she's evolving.

Yeah. And I think her views are as radical as people with, as one would think. She's smart and she's pretty. And she's great on social media, she's great communicator. He's the natural inheritor of this gang. Well, let's say that again.

She's great on social media, and she's a natural communicator. Natural communicator. And that's what happened with Mom Donnie Donnie and she has that quality. Okay, well, that leaves me up next with the many choices in front of us. Now, we have Gavin Newsom and AOC already selected in our Democratic Fantasy draft. Y'all, I think I got to choose VP Kamala Harris.

The recent announcement of South Carolina going first makes me think that there is somewhat of a advantage that the people who have name recognition and speak to that more traditional, more moderate base have. You out-stratized me because she was my pick. I should have picked her first because you would never have picked AOC. Oh, I was picking AOC. Oh, I was picking the other one. So Kamala Harris would have been... No, for sure. My thought if you picked Harris was to pick AOC.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think she's been under the radar. And one thing I would say about the recent reporting we did about the possibility of her running on the show is when I was talking to her team, it was clear that, you know, they understood that there was donors and the kind of party insiders who did not want her to run again. And there was a thing that they said about, if she were to run, it would be as an anti-establishment outsider. And I thought, you know, maybe, you know, I think that we've seen versions of Kamala Harris before, but that to me feels

like something. No, she's so not. I don't feel like that's authentic to who she is. Right. It isn't. But I do think that's authentic to where the Democratic base is. And I think there's a greater recognition of the folks around her about that. She, she should go towards the cool Kamala, and she doesn't always. She could have said something about Biden, and she didn't. She's very careful. And I appreciate a lot of things about her.

And boy, she does not deserve most of the blame for what happened. She did a great campaign, I thought. She did a lot of energy. The Biden thing just dragged her down to the bottom. An anchor. And then she wouldn't, like, cut him loose. And I kind of like her for that. And the same time, I'm like, honey, if you want to win this thing, cut him loose.

All right, all right. We see Donald Lemon with an inspired choice that he is writing down. on this list. Don't cover it. What are you doing? Also because the next choice is, Gara, she might take your first. I know. Let me see.

I'll wait till you get yours. No, no, you may not. Oh, Hunter Biden, add it to the list. You're up next. He may seem like, he's flavor the week, but there's a lot of not good about that young man. Kara, who is your second selection? I think he would win. Mark Cuban.

But I don't think he will run, so I know he will not run. Tell me the logic for Mark Cuban- 2028? I know him really well. I think there is a sort of anti-billionaire backlash and all the AI stuff is going to be in the thing. I think it's, I think the data centers are a proxy for anger towards both billionaires, AI, job uncertainty, the corruption of the Trumps around crypto. I think it's all wrapped up in the AI thing. I think he has proved himself to be someone who is reasonable, willing to work across party lines. At the same time, he's doing this cost plus drug thing, which I think is positive. I think he's just a good. I think he's just,

genuine like it. He's cool on the sports stuff. He's good looking, but he's funny. All right, Don, you're up. Who you got next? Oh, oh, he's taken Wes Moore. I thought he was going to choose a handsome black guy of another sort. Give me your

logic for the Westmore selection. Have you seen him? I've seen him. I've seen him. I've seen it. This is like not Grindr? What's happening here? No, no, no. Not like that. I love him like a brother. And his wife I mean, his wife's a friend. And I just think that he is brilliant.

He has a good heart. He's handsome. And people really like him. He has a charismatic personality. I mean, he certainly has the fresh face quality. And I think is introducing himself on the national stage where there's a desire to hear from some new people. So I could definitely see him making something work.

I think I'm going to go with the senator from Georgia, John Osso. All right, good. Because I think that it is an electability thing. And I think about what you're saying about Jewish candidates. And I honestly think there is some way that it can insulate some folks from some criticism, too. And that if you kind of play, if you speak to your kind of anti-Zionist, but also not overtly left-wing communities, I think they can actually play both roles there. And so I can actually see a Jewish candidate being an advantage for an issue for Democrats, not necessarily.

a hindrance if you're not firmly in one side or the other. Right, yeah. So I think I'm going to go off. He's also made what should be a really tight race, look fairly safe for Democrats in this year. And I think that he could get a little midterm spoof because of that. We're on the same page because that was going to be one of my picks again. And the reason I was going to pick him is because the ladies love him.

Ladies vote. Black women love him. they call him Senator My Boo. And we know that the road to the White House and the Democratic Party runs through black women. Okay. Next. All right.

It's hard here because I'm going to go. I'm between two people that I like a lot. And I've spent a lot of time with one is Gina Ramundo, who I think in any other world would be very qualified. Is your concern as gender? Gender, absolutely. And I think she knows it too. See, I'm not so.

I think a woman might have. have a shot. Gina Ramundo, then I'll pick Gina Romano. Because here's the thing. I just interviewed her, and she's funny, another funny person. She's got a great background.

Does she have a name recognition? Well, she was governor of Rhode Island and she was Commerce Secretary. That's the difficulty. She's a great vice presidential candidate to me. She's just raised an enormous amount of money, some from a lot of tech companies, but she's not pro tech.

She's managing this sort of can-do spirit, like the Chips Act, the infrastructure bill. I wonder if voters prioritized policy, though, like, you know, since you're mentioning those type of electability, other things. Like, I remember when I was covering Warren's campaign in 2020, one of the questions was like, I get the kind of policy primary you're playing, but are voters going to care about that more than electability? She could make an argument of the stuff she's done, right? She has a lot of policy behind her. Got you.

I can talk to the tech companies. I can go toe to toe to China. I can do this kind of stuff. All right, Tom Limon, you're up next? Oh, I'm up next. Hey, he picks himself. He is amazing. Maybe the best looking team.

That's what we're going for. All right. Now, Dod, we have arrived to the moment of truth. Give me the logic for your presidential campaign in 2020. Look, I'm out there every day, as you know, and you compliment me for it. I talk to people almost every day I'm out there. Even I go around the country, when I go to other cities, when I go to other countries, I go and speak to people. And I think, I know that people are tired of the tried and true.

They're tired of corporate Democrats, established Democrats. They want something new and different. Now, experience-wise, all of that, I think that I have experience. I don't think that the qualifications to be president anymore means that you have to be a mayor and then a congressman and then a senator. Because if you are smart enough to have smart people around you and you've been around long enough to know that that is the key to any success. presidency, then I think you can be a good leader. I also know, because my other choice was going to be

either Kamala Harris or John Osso. It's South Carolina. We are starting in South Carolina, which is a state that supports black candidates. It's the reason that Joe Biden became president. And Jim Clyburn is there, and he will help any of these candidates. And they are going, it's going to be a black candidate in South Carolina. So I am a black man. I know that I am gay and people like, oh, that's okay, but we'll see because I think people are coming around to that a bit. Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm asking, what does Don Lemon provide that these other Democrat candidates do not? I'm not an insider, and I am not a Democrat. I'd have to register as a Democrat in order to run.

And you think people want that? I think people want independence. Yes, they do. I have to tell you this is a gift to Megan Kelly if you run. Okay. Who's your running mate? Who's my running mate? Yeah.

Oh, Swisher Lemon, 2028. There we go. You just lost. You literally just lost. I'll just talk about electability. We need white guys, straight people all out the window. We're going living in Switzerland. That just ended your thing.

Okay, it is my turn, and I am torn between a couple. I like Raphael Warnock. I'm going to go against the grain and say, Josh Shapiro. Oh, I was just going to pick. Oh, that's my next pick. That's my next pick. Because while I agree about the kind of tide turning,

particularly against Israel among the Democratic base, I could see a group of kind of progressive candidates or candidates fighting for that group splitting votes. And someone like Josh Shapiro being able to really kind of do what Biden did in 2020 and coalesce a moderate lane. So obviously, moderate lane means black voters means I think some people, we haven't necessarily seen him win with just yet. But I do think there is an opportunity,

particularly if we see a split electorate among the AOCs and Kamala Harris's and everyone else. So I am going to go with. Josh Shapiro and the moderate wing striking bat. If he were the nominee, I'd vote for him yesterday. We are down to our final rounds, y'all. So this is the time for the spicy or

maybe out of the box picks. Think about where your team might need some new voices or maybe someone who can gobble up a way you don't have. Kimmel, oh my God. Oh, Jimmy Kimmel. No. Hell of wow. I'm not about adding J.B. Prisker.

Oh, my God. Oh, then I take You can take him? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How did you leave him out? That was bad on my part. I was actually thinking about that right now. We're going to say Governor J.B. Pritzker, Illinois, was almost certainly running, has

a whole bunch of money behind him. I say I would have put him before. J.B. Rommando. Here's who I like him. I just was with him actually last week. He is incredibly well spoken. Rich as can be.

So he can fund a lot of stuff. He's very well liked and very pro-business and at the same time, very good at Trump pushback. And he's been affected. He also has like a dad vibe. But he's like a normal guy. He's not like a rich guy. He's got a dad. He's got a dad.

Yeah, my Illinois family has definitely come around him as like the people's billionaire. Yeah. The way people talk about him is populace. He's very well-liked, very rich, rich. Don, give me your final pick. Okay, so look, I am, Kara Swisher, I think that I would like her to be my vice president. Oh, let's see. I am going to say, wow, it's a tough one.

It's between these two. You're thinking about Clooney or who else? Or Stephen Colbert. Okay, so you're going again with outsiders more of a celebrity choice. Yeah, but also people who... Are politically engaged. Politically engaged. And I don't think...

I think it's Clooney. Clooney. I like that choice. This is someone who obviously played a big role in the last Democratic presidential primary, kind of surprisingly. Give me the Clooney logic. Well, the Clooney logic is... He is, he is, he's my hall pass, but no, I think he, look, he's very politically engaged.

He's very philanthropic. He has a very accomplished wife who actually should be running for president of the United States. Yeah. And I think that he has just enough celebrity and just enough political savvy that it would make a very interesting mix. Very well spoken. If he stands at the microphone, at a podium in an arena, everyone is going to pay attention because it's true. George Clooney and he did it right. If he did it right.

But by the way, oh, you haven't put every, I haven't put my. I guess it. Okay. Okay. So I think, I like it. I do like your squad. I'm torn for my last choice between three,

these three right here. Raphael Wario Wario of Georgia, Pete Buttigieg, former Transportation Secretary, and Gretchen Whitmer, Michigan Governor. I'm going to go Raphael Warnock. Not because I'm completely sure

he's going to run for president, particularly as him and Osloff might have a choice on their hands. But I do think it's the type of person, whether it be South Carolina. People talk about him as the quiet as someone. And I do think he has some interest based on some talks I've had with him. His interesting thing to me is he's really changed his tune on Israel

from when he was preaching to when he's been in office, kind of becoming more pro. But I think that also is, I think, you know, with that black evangelical tradition and others, there's a lot of ways they can go on that kind of. issues specifically. That is not a good thing with the young people. That is not a good thing with the young people, but I do think, you know, being the pastor of Ebenezer gives you some leeway. You know, I would like to see them yell at them. Let's go through our Democratic team. I got to get a picture.

This is, because, look, I mean, just look how beautiful my team. I mean, it is really, he really did beat us. You literally picked based on looks. No, I did not, but let me just tell you something, selfishly. Look at these pictures. Look at how beautiful. No, seriously, look at what Melanin does for you. I'm just saying. Let's go through the teams. Gara Switch has Gavin Nusum, Mark Cuban, Gina Raimondo, and J.B. Pritzker. Dalimann has Representative Alexandria Cascio Cortez, West Moore himself, and George Clooney. And then I have Vice President Kamala Harris, John Ossoff, Josh Shapiro, and Raphael Warnock. Is there any person? You are surprised, was not selected. You mentioned Rahm Emanuel.

Rama Manuel. I'm surprised. Wasn't selected. And Bashir. Bashir, someone who comes up And Pete, because everyone really likes Pete. Another vice presidential candidate. Here's the thing. Don has casting a movie here. He's casting a movie. Oceans 15. Oceans 15.

Oceans 2028. I am reasonable. I'm like, this is a reasonable choice of people. You're really going businessy though. I see J.B. Pritzker, Mark Cuban. Even Gavin Newsome. Yeah, businessy. As people who are business accessible.

Yes, business can do. I think our picks really reflect our personality. Yeah, I've got, I've mixed all around the board. Like, I was trying to let Shapiro occupy one lane. And I'm just obsessed with Georgia, apparently. Yeah. Let's move on. Let's move on.

Okay, so we've now done our Democratic and Republican drafts. We only have one last step here, which is that I want one takeaway from each of you about what we learned throughout this process. And we're going to go one by one before we get out of here. Does anybody have a takeaway that comes to their mind? thinking about either the Democrats we picked or the Republicans. I had a tough time with the Republicans

simply because of where we are right now when it comes to Republicans, especially MAGA. The interesting thing that was enlightening to me that made me feel better is that there isn't a person on that board that I would not vote for. On the Democratic side. Democratic side. And so that gives me a little bit more hope

about 2028. Interesting. For me, I think people after, I think people want to put Trump in the rear mirror. And so anyone associated with him, I think, is not going to win. I think it's just people are sick of him. And I think people are going to want something totally different.

So I'm looking for that. You're forgetting the most important thing that you and I, where we work now, digital is going to be extremely important. Someone who is savvy on social media. Can go from a podcast to a social media to a debate and who's not scared. And that's why I worry about Kamala Harris. I don't think she takes enough risks. Whoever can take a risk.

Don Lemon is obviously a fucking expert. Wes is pretty good. The mark is great. It's just who's good at it. And there's fewer good at it. There's very few good at it in the Republican Party. And there's not so good at it here, too. There's some who are great at.

I think my takeaway, at least for the Republicans, is y'all skepticism about Vance. I think it's fair. I think it's earned. But I do think the foremost question when we think about the Republican nomination is just what happens with him in Trump's relationship. If that blows up,

Obviously, it's kind of Wild West out there. But the nature of that one, and you all's kind of certainty that you think it's going to shift really quickly, that sticks in my head. And on the Democratic side, I do think the electability question is a really important one. Like, I, we were just in South Carolina, and we heard so many people say, it's got to be a white guy. That it's got to be someone who kind of focuses people just on defeating Republicans. But at the same time in these dem primaries, you're seeing different versions of electability, kind of come out in New York and Colorado, even in Michigan, Wisconsin. But instead, if I can take you back, you're old enough to remember.

People said the same thing with Barack Obama, right? And they were like, oh, it's got to be Hillary Clinton. That's the white. It's got to be a white person. Even the Congressional Black Caucus, even black leaders. And then he won. And they're like, oh, shit, everybody got behind him. So you never know.

My last takeaway, though, would be that the centrality of divisions like Israel and AI feel like a real fault line with so many of these candidates. And that even the question of whether a Jewish candidate is helped or hurt by that conversation feels like something that is going to be really central to 2027 and 2020. That's why Vance is a no. He's too tight with the billionaires. I think Rachel Madder was right. He's Peter Thiel's failed intern. I hate that we have to have a conversation about, can a Jewish person be president?

I do, too. Yeah, I think that it's on comfort that I think has often really been applied to women, black folks, things and I think this electability conversation including all those things now. Is there someone, anyone up there, if I can tell me there or something, that you would, I know you said these are the possibilities, but that you would say shouldn't run. You know, Kamala Harris was my first pick and I think it's going to be, it would be, like, difficult. Like, I do think it would be a real tightrope. Now, I think it's a tightrope that has fundamentals of a fine campaign and has name recognition

and all those things. But to the point of what I talked about earlier, I do think being anti-establishment will be almost required. And I wonder if that's a worldview she can comfortably step in. That's authentic to her. And so that's the one I would think, like,

I think the party would be hoped if it was a full opening of new candidates. But I think she's reading the same polls we are. Right. And so like, I think... Yeah, and I think it's also a feeling of like, am I getting skipped? And I think that's what's motivating.

But I think if you've asked maybe who should or shouldn't, that's the person that comes to my mind. That's the person that comes to my mind. But I mean, on that board, I'd say the three people for the same reason, me, George Clooney and Mark Cuban. Because I said, why mess up your beautiful life? Why? Why, John?

You could party in the white house. I'm like, part 10. Your loss is our game. And Uber eats, get over here. America actually will be in your field. actually will be in your feeds every Saturday with an interesting interview in culture or politics. And you can also

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