Today, Explained - Football's future is flag

Episode Date: October 9, 2026

Football is by far the most popular sport in the US, but that isn’t stopping the NFL from investing in one of the least popular sports in the US. This episode was produced by Hady Mawajdeh, edited by Jolie Myers and Miranda Kennedy, fact checked by Sarah Schweppe and Gabriel Dunatov, engineered by Bridger Dunnagan and David Tatasciore, and hosted by Sean Rameswaram. USA Women’s flag football quarterback Vanita Krouch looks to pass during halftime at Highmark Stadium on October 5, 2025 in Orchard Park, New York. Photo by Kathryn Riley/Getty Images. Listen to Today, Explained ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. New Vox members get $20 off their membership right now. Transcript at ⁠⁠vox.com/today-explained-podcast⁠.⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rumor has it, Miley's going to play the Super Bowl halftime show. But the Super Bowl halftime show isn't until Valentine's Day 2027. Even so, there's tons of speculation about the big game and the big game's halftime entertainment, because that's just how big the NFL is. The last several Super Bowls are the most viewed television events in United States history. Nine of the 10 most watched television broadcasts last year were NFL games. The league is an unstoppable money-making machine that Forbes says is worth about $300 billion. So why is it investing in flag football, of all things?

And why does it want you to play it? We're going to ask on today, Explain from Vox. Go bills. Support for TakeSplain comes from Adio. there are sales teams out there who never seem to stop moving, always a step ahead, always working with a level of precision that doesn't seem normal. They may be on Adio, the agentic CRM. Adio is built for humans and agents with the guardrails of human software and the scale of agentic infrastructure. This is the frontier of go-to-market. Teams like parallel,

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with her. What is up with the biggest league in American sports and it's, what, watered-down version? I mean, certainly the NFL is helping promote flag football. The NFL is launching a professional flag football. Football League for men and women. Six flag football events were prominently featured at this year Super Bowl, games for men, a co-ed competition, and a high school girls showcase. And welcome to the NFL flag football championship.

And the NFL has a vested interest in the success of flag football because more people who are interested in flag football, at least the NFL is hoping, means more people will be interested in the NFL and tackle football as a whole. Data shows that if you play the game, you are more likely to be a lifelong fan. So if young women are playing the game and they're getting that exposure early on, and that's why they fell in love with it. They're really promoting on a grassroots level more. So if you're an adult and you're just watching games on a Sunday,

you might not see a lot of flag football. You might see a few commercials here and there. If you talk to someone who's never watched flag football, you show them a game. They're like, oh, wow, I didn't know that y'all could ball like that. NFL Flagg. chase something. But maybe if you're a parent or if you're a kid who's interested in playing football, there are a lot of teams in basically every market that sponsor flag football clinics. Las Vegas Raiders aren't just preparing for their own season. They're helping build a future

of girls flag football. This year's Inspire Flag Football All-Stars received official uniforms, headgear, and gloves from the Raiders. There's so much work that the NFL's 32 clubs have been doing on the ground in the communities to grow flag football. What I want people to know is we really are committed to the longevity of this sport. This is not a flash in the pan. This is something that we're really committed to supporting. The NFL was really involved in the promotion and inclusion of flag football in the Olympics. So they were a big force in advocating to add flag football to the Olympics.

So there's a lot of involvement of the NFL in the promotion of flag, but maybe some of it's a little bit more behind the scenes and not necessarily always in the forefront on a Sunday when you're tuning in to watch a game. So, I mean, help people understand really what the NFL is after here because it feels almost like if FIFA had been like kind of on the side promoting rugby the entire time during the World Cup because these are two pretty distinct sports, right? Like flag football does not really look like NFL football. Well, no, not really.

I mean, it kind of does. I think for the NFL, they honestly just see an opportunity to make a little extra money on the side. Does the NFL need more money? Probably not. They're doing fine on their own right now. But do they want more money? Yeah. Yeah.

And so in that case, do they want like football? Yes. So I think the NFL is looking at like football is like, okay, maybe you don't like tackle football. Maybe you grew tired of it. Maybe it's too much for you. But we'll have. have a second option for you if you're interested is kind of their plan and their hope that they'll kind of like surround us with football on every side.

When we talk about people getting tired of tackle football, I mean, there was this recent study that got published that said one in four NFL players have developed brain trauma and the numbers might likely be higher. We just don't know yet because we don't find out until people die. It's the force of the blow. And it's not even the frequency. It's the force of the blow that's really the predictor here. The majority of these head impacts happen during practice.

So by reducing contact, it can improve safety at all levels of football here. Does that have something to do with people getting tired of tackle football? At least maybe playing it recreationally or signing their kids up? The thing that's been part of the forecasted kind of downturn of football. What happens to the supply of future football? players. We went through that 15 years ago. There was a reduction in participation in youth football, but it's a supply of high quality, capable, professional football players starts to diminish. That's when the NFL is going to have a problem. I think people worry that maybe this sport

is getting too violent. It's getting too scary. It's getting too dangerous to either watch or want your kids to play. I'm thinking, guys, if I had a son who was playing at this age, Thinking about it, I'd be terrified, Nate. I am not letting my son play football, period. He has no choice. He's not playing football. And I'll tell you my bias. It's college football.

I love it. It's my favorite sport. So last week I was watching college football for 14 straight hours. Wow. Just mind your business. Don't judge me. Don't judge me. But there were multiple players who are driven off the field in ambulances in one day.

Like, this is a very violent and a very scary sport. And so maybe one day we decide that our appetite for that kind of thing is less. Maybe we've decided that it's getting too much. And I think flag football, because it's non-contact, maybe flag football is a little bit more of a palatable way to engage with this game. And I think the NFL is hoping that there's like a kind of secondary safety blanket if the forecasted downturn of tackle football comes. But again, like we've been talking about, well, what if we get tired of the NFL?

for many years now. CTE and brain trauma to players has been around for many years now. The viewership of the NFL continues to climb every single week, every single season. The NFL is going to more countries. They're playing games on more days. People like tackle football

in the NFL more than ever. It feels like even the money that there is to be made here would be kind of marginal compared to what the NFL does regularly. Sure. I mean, again, the NFL doesn't need flag football, but again, it wants flag football. And even if the money is marginal compared to what the NFL makes as a whole, if you have, let's say, a successful professional league, which the NFL is starting to put together, the league will have both professional men's and women's flag football. But if we're speaking specifically to a women's league of flag football, there's nothing else like it.

And we've seen a lot of professional women's sports leagues pop up in the last few years and really have success in the last few years. And so if you're Roger Goodell and you're the commissioner of the NFL, and what if someone else starts that league before you? And they get to make money off of it. Could you imagine how sick he would be? He would be so angry if you missed that opportunity. So I think the NFL sees an opportunity for growth here. and maybe it won't be as successful as the NFL, but 25% of what the NFL makes is still billions of dollars.

Is there any tension between the flag football players and the professional football players? I don't think the NFL players look at flag football players as, like, huge competition. I mean, the NFL players are the kings of sports right now. It's the biggest league. They make the most money. Patrick Mahomes has signed.

a deal with the Kansas City Chiefs, the first ever NFL deal worth over a half billion dollars. The NFL announcing new 11-year media distribution deals with all of its media partners. Sources tell me that this collective deal is worth more than $100 billion. They're doing fine. I don't feel like they need to be intimidated by flag football players. I think when it comes to Olympic opportunity and if they want to play in the Olympics, there is, I wouldn't say necessarily tension. but there's definitely going to be some competition there. At the end of the day, I feel like I'm better than Patrick Mahomes

because of my IQ of the game. I know he's right now the best in the league. I know he's more accurate. I know he has all these intangibles. But when it comes to flag football, I feel like I know more than him. Like, what if we hold like a combine? Dude, I don't, I just think we have the NFL team play these guys

and whoever wins goes. That's it. I don't even, I mean, if they're the best team, they should represent us. But I don't think that I'm pretty, I mean, I've never, I don't know any. anything about flag football, I feel really confident they're not the best. Like, you still really have to earn your spot compared to these flag football players, at least

in the United States. They are the best in the world on the men's side and the women's side, really. But the Team USA in flag football is doing just fine without tackle football players. And the anticipation, at least for the Olympics, is that they will be the heavy gold medal favorites, even if tackle football players don't play. Is that a thing that's actually going to happen? Are NFL players going to play flag football in the 2028 Olympics? Well, surely they're allowed to.

The NFL announced about a year and a half ago that they would allow NFL players to try out for the team. And then it's just kind of up to the player individually. But the door is open for NFL players to compete in the Olympics if they want it, if they want to try out. First, you've got to try out. Hmm. Has anyone had the bright idea yet to pit a bunch of existing?

NFL players against a bunch of existing flag football players to play either one of the games and see who does better? We did watch a competition between USA flag football and NFL players. And the flag football players honestly dominated. They crushed them. They played flag football. And there were some, like the way a flag football player moves his or her body. through space is so unique.

Oh my gosh. The playing style, the speed, the athleticism that these guys have. The game is certainly very different, but it doesn't take away from the athletic ability that those guys have from speed to burst to change the direction and understanding of the game. They do a fantastic job. Like if you watch them, they're like dipping their hips around.

You know, we were trying to probably play more NFL football and past concepts. And, you know, things happen pretty quick out there. And those guys are super shifty. And just in terms of, Strategy, we're probably way behind. Because if you're in the NFL, or if you're playing tackle football, you can, like, kind of chook. You juke in a certain way.

But in flag football, how they try to keep their flags away from other people is they, like, dip their hips, they swivel their hips in a completely different way. So some of these moves that the flag football players were doing on these NFL players, just straight embarrassing. Like, there's like some comic book stuff. So if an NFL player wants to play in the Olympics, like, there's still going to be a huge learning curve for that. You mentioned that this is really growing thanks to women. And it's interesting to think about the NFL wanting a stake in this because the NFL doesn't have a rich history of, like, involving women in the league, right? Like, even if you watch a game today, it's like one in hundreds of people on the sidelines even are women, right? I would say there might be kind of a misconception about the way women are involved in football

because the NFL, there have been surveys over the years about the demographic of NFL fans, and there have been studies showing that between 42, 47 percent of NFL fans identify as women. So there are a lot of women watching football and a lot of women who are interested in football. But I think in terms of the new avenue, it's that there is now a way for women to get more involved in playing the sport itself. And you're right. If you watch the sideline, it's basically all men. As someone who has been on an NFL sideline, been in an NFL locker room. Yeah, there's very, very few women in that space.

But having something like flag football, where women can now play a volleyball. version of this sport and understand it and get access to it in a way that wasn't traditionally there. I think that is opening up a new way for the NFL to kind of grow its fan base and also just like kind of grow the interest in the sport as a whole. We're talking at the end of summer 26 and flag football is growing exponentially. What do you think it looks like after summer for 2028. The NFL said it's going to be launching its professional league in 27. So that would be a really big moment for its professional league to kind of jump off of what

happens in the Olympics. It's hard to imagine what it could be because I don't think many of us even imagined what flag football could be right now, you know? I could imagine a world maybe not in 2028, but soon after 2028, where girls' flag football is like a major NCAA Division I sport. I can imagine to be on television more. It's not going to just be like that weird backyard game that kids play because in the future they want to play tackle football.

I think there will be legitimate dreams of people saying, I want to play flag football. After halftime, we're going to hear from a flag football player who was into it way before it was cool. Support for Today Explained comes from Quince. Quince, beautiful, strong, classy, understated, always ready for any situation. Quince. Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials. The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become

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That's really all V said when I asked her to introduce herself. She's too humble to flex. So I'll do it for her. V is the most decorated player in the history of women's flag football in the United States. People call her the Tom Brady of Flagg. She was the quarterback of the U.S. Women's Flag Football Team for about a decade. as QB, she won three gold medals at the flag football world championships and two silvers at the world games. We asked her what she says to people who think flag football isn't real football.

I would say to people who don't view flag football as real football, you know, my competitive side is like, line up. Come check it out. You can line up and come see how real it is. First and gold to go, crouch pumps, now unloads to the end zone. and it's cut for the touchdown. Anita has the ball. She's looking deep. She wants it all.

She has it all. Touchdown. I know it's taught in a way that, you know, as a PE teacher, I've taught flag football. I teach it in words that make it feel like we're playing a tag game. Tag you're it. Don't get touch, right? And essentially, that's what flag football looks like. You're jukeing out of player.

You don't want them to pull your flag. You don't even want them to touch you, essentially. And so I think there's that stigma of like what we've known flag football to be as like powder puff and it's realistically what I want people to know about flag football is that it's the real deal it's more than just a backyard game it's elite it's finesse it's a special dance that we do different from tackle players tackle me I always say it's like hard crump hip-hop breakdancing like powerful in this dance performance but I always say flag football is very like finesse just like a ballet There's a smoothness to it.

There's a creativity to it that's different. And I love both. So I'm not going to knock both. We just both dance differently. And then I challenge those who like don't take flag football seriously. Like line up. Come see. Come really learn the arts and craft about it before you really want to make fun of us.

Okay. How did you get into it? Google. Really? Yeah, I know for real. I grew up playing traditional sports in Texas. I did volleyball, basketball, soccer. I started to hyper-focus my energy

towards trying to get a Division I scholarship and I was really good at soccer and basketball. So I focused my energy there, got my full ride to play at SMU. And then afterwards, I was playing semi-pro and I just kind of had an itch of wanting to try something new. I'd been doing basketball since I was in fourth grade, got on Google with one of my teammates,

found men's flag football in Rockwall four-on-four and said, why not? Men's flag football? Yeah, it was men's flag football. I didn't find it as a joke. I didn't find it as a tag game, but I found it as in like, I'm athletic. I have eye-hand coordination. I'm quick with a little burst like basketball players are.

So I think I can give it a try. My brothers play football. I know the concept of football, but I will tell you I didn't know the verbiage of football back then at all. I just knew touchdown. So did you sign up for men's flag football? A thousand percent. Tell me how that went. Well, they had four men on the field and my teammate and I and my brother's friend, we had two guys and two girls on.

And there's a part about football for girls and women that when we play a game that we weren't used to playing or as welcome to playing, so to go out there and like pull a guy's flag or juke them and make him fall or miss your flag or score a touchdown, it gives you a different sense of empowerment. And I drink the flag football Kool-Aid and I was all in after being just a little bit successful against men and I wanted more. And so then I started playing like nine leagues in one week. Wow. You know, Monday through Friday, two Saturday, two Sunday.

Where there was football, I was there. I was there from the lights on to the lights off. Like, I just fell in love with this game. It was a new way to get like my competitive exercise, friendship, you know, desires out. And I don't know. I just sat there. studied the game, met a lot of people, and here we are today doing podcasts, you know.

How are you seeing attitudes around women playing football change in your day-to-day? Over the course of these two decades where you've kind of watched this sport grow in such exponential ways? I would say in the beginning of my like flag football, football experience, the attitudes towards women playing football. You know, there was kind of like, what do you do? Oh, I have a flat football game tonight. It's kind of like, what?

It's kind of like a giggle, like, okay, that's kind of like a joke, right? Like, not taking serious. But I feel like that wave has kind of changed. And I feel like now when people ask like, what do you do, what do you mean? And they'll be like, yeah, I, you know, play five football for Team USA. Or, you know, I have a football game tonight. Like, regardless of the scale of it, I feel and hear and see a lot more like, whoa, that's cool. How do I sign up?

How did you find that? And so it's like, I think there's a visit. that's kind of like been created. And some people have an interest to kind of want to hop on board and play themselves and lace up themselves. And so I feel like there's a lot more positive energy about it and saying like, oh, wow, you're a girl playing in it. This is so cool.

Yeah. And so it gives us a different type of confidence. It gives us a different type of empowerment. And so I think there's a fun, positive shift of attitude, both for the fan outside perspective and for the athlete's confidence and feeling empowered. 20 years from now, this is going to be a household sport instead of like Sunday football, college, Saturday, Friday night lights. We're going to get one of these days of the week and it's going to be like, you know, flag football, flag football Friday. So the more we see these people, the more we want to be them.

I always feel like representation matters. And so the more people see it, they feel like they can be it and they believe in it. But when you don't see it, you don't know that your dreams are either limited or limitless. But now that we see it, it feels limitless. Vanita Crouch, caller V, the Tom Brady of Flag Football, former PE teacher, current pro flag football ambassador for tomorrow sports. Earlier, you heard from Tuknin to win from the LA Times. Heidi Mawaddy produced, Miranda Kennedy, edited with help from Jolie Myers,

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