Today, Explained - FREE YSL

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

Two of the biggest rappers in the world, Young Thug and Gunna, are behind bars. And their bars will likely be used as evidence when they go to trial. This episode was produced by Hady Mawajdeh, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Efim Shapiro, and edited and hosted by Sean Rameswaram. Transcript at vox.com/todayexplained Support Today, Explained by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A funny thing happens in the new Drake video for his song Sticky. After watching the Canadian rapper wrap up a show, we see him stunting next to luxury vehicles and boarding a private jet. Next, he's helming a sailboat, just regular rapper stuff. But right as he says, you see free YSL written in big neon green slime dripping on your screen. It's kind of jarring and doesn't really gel with anything else happening in the song or the video. But the most popular rapper in the world is taking a beat to plea for the release of one of the most popular rappers in the world.

Big Slime is an alias for Young Thug. He and Gunna, another wildly popular rapper, are behind bars awaiting trial, and their bars might be used against them. That's coming up on Today Explained. Bet MGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with Bet MGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about Bet MGM.

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Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Hey, just a heads up, today's show has lots of strong language. Today, today's show has lots of strong language. We wanted to know what's going on with Young Thug and Gunna,

why two of the most popular rappers in America are behind bars, and why their bars might be used against them in court. So we reached out to Jewel Wicker. She's the editor-at-large for Capital B in Atlanta. I'm based in Atlanta, Georgia, born and raised here, and I've worked here for at least five, six years. She's going to give you a little primer on Young Thug and Gunna in case you're not familiar with their work. So Young Thug is an Atlanta rapper. He's been around for about a decade now,

first kind of as a local radio star and then breaking out on the national scene with songs like Stoner. I'm stoner, I'm stoner, I'm stoner, I'm st scene with songs like Stoner. You know, he's really made a name for himself, not just as an artist, who kind of utilizes his voice and melodies in some really unique ways. No knife, I wanna slice you and dice you My argument possessive, it got you precise Can you not turn off the TV? I'm watching it fight He's also pretty prolific. So, for example, in 2020 alone, he racked up 14 hits on the Billboard Hot 100. And that's despite not releasing a solo project that year.

Everyone we made up Black and gray diamonds like a radar Black and blue orange peel Your love is real Love is real. He's also notably the founder of a very successful music label called Young Stoner Life or YSL. And one of the biggest acts on that label is a rapper named Gunna. We got touch, we gon' rock. You much slime, you much slime.

Young Gunna, I'm my prime. Gunna's rap style is certainly a nod to Young Thug, but he's also really been able to make a name for himself as a solo artist with songs like Drip Too Hard, which features Lil Baby. And it's also worth noting that both men are kind of really popular on the fashion scene as well. Yeah, Young Thug has a really distinct style, right? Yeah. Young Thug has a really distinct style, right? Yeah. Young Thug has a really distinct style. I mean, I think, you know, one of the album artworks of his that went viral, he was wearing a dress, which, you know, was really a controversial big thing at the time.

Way before Brad Pitt wore a dress. Oh, yeah. Way before Brad Pitt. And then Gunna, I mean, big enough that I profiled him for GQ earlier this year. And a part of the peg for the profile was like his closet, a look inside his closet at what he's wearing and kind of the fashion sense that he has. Wasn't Gunna like a musical guest on SNL at some point? Ladies and gentlemen, Gunna. Oh, yeah. He had a number one album this year.

You know, we talk about Young Thug and I think it is true that he's one of the biggest rappers in the world, but Gunna certainly is more than his protege. You know, when I profiled him earlier this year, it was fresh off the hills of him receiving a number one album. He came out with a viral hit, Pushing P, that a bunch of brands and artists kind of jumped on that train. He's really, really popular. So what is going on with these two guys right now? Why are we talking about them? You know, so on May 9th, young Thug was arrested at his home in Atlanta and he was booked into the Fulton County Jail

and charged with conspiracy to violate the RICO Act. The rapper and 28 other defendants charged in a 56-count indictment alleging street gang activity, including robbery and murder. And then two days later, Gunna also surrendered and turned himself into authorities for the same thing.

He's also facing RICO charges. Okay, and people who watch, like, mob movies or The Sopranos have probably heard of RICO charges. Since you are at the helm, it all gets back to putting up bigger blinds, really limiting your exposure to potential RICO booboos. The only way to run a family these days is bunker style. You peer out through the slit.

Mumsies. For those people who don't, what are RICO charges? So they're being charged on the state level, but RICO itself is the Rocketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act. It started out as a federal law, but now almost all states, including Georgia, have adopted similar state RICO laws. And Georgia's law is, of course, based on the federal act, which has been used to target mafia families like the Gambinos. It focuses on organized crime and only requires the state to prove that some group of people are committing a pattern of crimes.

Are Young Thug and Gunna in the mafia? So it's being alleged that they're a part of an organized gang. That's kind of the basis of these charges. In this particular case, because he had this record label, they're alleging that through the record label, he was able to create this criminal enterprise to further this criminal activity in violation of the RICO Act. So prosecutors are really alleging that they are part of a gang that has committed a number of crimes throughout Atlanta, right? They are committing conservatively 75 to 80 percent of all of the violent crime that we are seeing within our community. This is kind of a hybrid gang made up of Bloods and Crips.

And together, they've committed crimes that are in furtherance of this gang. That's what they're alleging. As large as this indictment is, I told my team that let's not be sexy. Now, let's not overreach. Let's be conservative in our approach, which is always the approach that I take. And in taking that approach, 28 defendants were indicted and they were indicted for the crimes that I believe were appropriate for this RICO indictment. I mean, it's worth noting that prosecutors are alleging that Gunn and Young Thug aren't just a member of this gang, but that they're the leaders of it. But there were other people named in this indictment, a rapper named YSL Duke, a rapper named Yak Gotti, and a rapper named Unfunk, again, all a part of this really large indictment that came down in May. Okay. What is this YSL gang being accused of doing exactly?

It's worth noting that, one, there is a debate over what YSL is. Prosecutors say YSL stands for Young Slime Life. Young Thug and people in the rap industry say it stands for Young Stoner Life. Prosecutors, of course, allege that Young Slime Life predates and existed long before the record label itself. But they're saying that the people in the gang, including Young Thug and Gunna, have committed a number of crimes. And the allegations in this indictment really range from wearing a chain in a music video and kind of repping YSL,

which they, of course, argue is a record label, to, say, purchasing a car that is then used in the commission of a murder. And some of these charges are still being brought down. So, say, Young Thug, for instance, was discharged with six more things in relation to his arrest earlier this month. They include participation in criminal street gang activity,

possession of marijuana with intent to distribute, possession of codeine with intent to distribute, possession of cocaine, possession of a firearm during the commission of a of cocaine, possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime, and possession of a machine gun. So this is in addition to the original indictment that we saw in May, right? That's important because we're still seeing charges being added to kind of what prosecutors are alleging here.

And they're still in jail. They've been in jail this entire time since May. We've had a couple bond hearings so far. The judge every time is denied bond, kind of citing fear of witness intimidation. Gunna turned 29, you know, since he's been in jail and he released a letter that kind of proclaimed his innocence and really leaned in heavy on what we think defense attorneys are going to use, kind of this idea that Black art and lyrics are being used unfairly to criminalize these men. Tell me more about that. Is that like a big part of this case here, that they're going to be using Young Thug and Gunna's lyrics? Yeah, I mean, it was used several times in the indictment, and it also has come up several times in some of the bond hearings.

You know, several songs like Take It to Trial. I need to sit down if you can't stand me. I don't turn down. I up my stomach. Take it to trial. Get up here. Take it to trial. Yeah, you can waggle. No, that's a fool. Yeah, yeah. I fuck with slacks and we coming to eat racks.

And I came with some fucker piranhas. Flatty. I got a bag. I ain't nothing. My love is lean. Yeah, this is tough. I killed this man. I'm running this mama.

I fuck little bruh. Something is coming. I keep my stick. One of the lyrics from Anybody that Young Thug Raps is, I never killed anybody, but I got something to do with that body. And prosecutors have brought up several times in hearings that we've had so far that they again allege that Young Thug is the leader of YSL, the criminal street gang. They don't think that he has necessarily gone out and murdered someone himself, but that he is the one that is kind of orchestrating

and giving permission for these crimes to be committed. So they're specifically leaning into this lyric art because they're saying it's proof that what they're alleging is true. The question of whether or not rap lyrics should be admissible in court. In a minute on Today Explained. Support for Today Explained comes from Aura. Aura believes that sharing pictures is a great way to keep up with family. And Aura says it's never been easier thanks to their digital picture frames. They were named the number one digital photo frame by Wirecutter.

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And so we wanted to surprise her with the Aura Frame. And because she's a little bit older, it was just easier for us to source all the images together and have them uploaded to the frame itself. And because we're all connected over text message, it was just so easy to send a link to everybody. You can save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFrames.com to get $35 off Aura's best-selling Carvermat frames with promo code EXPLAINED at checkout. That's A-U-R-A-Frames.com, promo code EXPLAINED. This deal is exclusive to listeners and available just in time for the holidays. Terms and conditions do apply. The all-new FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino is bringing you more action than ever. Want more ways to follow your faves?

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Today Explained, we're back, and we want to talk about whether rap lyrics should even be admissible in court. And if so, in what context? We reached out to an academic, who's also a lawyer, to find out. My name is Timothy Welbeck. I am the director for the Anti-Racism Center at Temple University. I'm also an Africology professor there and civil rights attorney in Philadelphia. Professor Timothy Welbeck also happens to be a bit of a rapper. I do rap.

They call my mother's father carpenter red. He also happens to be a bit of a rapper. I do rap. So it won't surprise you that he's not crazy about this idea of prosecuting rappers with their art. As a whole, I generally discourage the practice. I particularly take issue with it because at its core, rap lyrics are a form of artistic expression. And it's a medium in which people not only communicate their lived experience, but also delve deeply into their imagination as well. And so we want to give them liberty to do that. And so then to have people create this genuine form of art

and then to potentially suffer some type of punishment as a result of it is what I find to be troubling, particularly because of the racial dynamics to it too. This has been a debate that's been going on for decades. Tell me about that history. Where does it start? So it starts back in the 90s. It actually even begins before that.

So if you'll remember circa the late 80s, we began to see a rise of a different level of content that was beginning to enter into the popular space, beginning with Schoolie D's PSK Ice-T's 6 in the Morning Then N.W.A.'s catalog. Straight out of Compton. It's a brother that don't smug to your mother. And make your sister think I love her. Dangerous young brother racing. It began to create a shift in not only the type of music that was coming out,

but how it was speaking to certain social conditions. And very quickly, people began to term that gangster rap. And if you may remember, Tipper Gore, among others, began having a campaign around trying to censor gangster rap and paint it as something that was untenable for public consumption. There's songs about rape, thrill killing, sadomasochism. There's a song that goes, quote, not a woman but a whore, I can taste the hate. Well, now I'm killing you. Watch your face turning blue, unquote, by a group that has sold 2 million copies of that particular album. They're very popular.

And so as that debate continued raging into the early 90s, you began to see prosecutors using rap lyrics as a form of evidence against people in trial. You also have prosecutors literally saying, these rap lyrics are almost like party confessions. What is maybe one of the more prominent cases that's come forward that used an artist's lyrics against the artist in a trial? Draco the Ruler and Tay-K are, I think, two cases that really caught people's attention, particularly with Draco the Ruler. Prosecutors allege that Caldwell was a part of

a botched plot to kill a rival at a party he attended in December 2016. Allegedly in the midst of a shootout, he and his gang had accidentally murdered 24-year-old Davion Gregory. But notwithstanding, his lyrics were used in trial as a means in which to establish a motive and saying that the person who was killed was killed in part because they had a longstanding beef with him. And this beef that he had was something that he articulated in his music. Everything I state is facts. I'm not these other street niggas, but I can really rap.

I'm riding around town with a Tommy gun and a Jag, and you can disregard the yelling. R.J. Todd up in the back, man, stop. And so as a consequence of him articulating this in the music, people were trying to use that in trial. How successful have prosecutors been using this approach? Do the lyrics sort of tip the scales in their favor? Are they winning cases?

So you have to even have the court agree that these lyrics can be introduced as evidence. And so many defense attorneys have argued that lyrics are immaterial, they're irrelevant, they're prejudicial, things like that. And defense attorneys in most of these cases that I just mentioned have lost those motions trying to suppress that type of evidence to try to keep it out of trial. And now that they're used in trial, how influential are they for the jury? And it seems as though in some of these cases, they are having an impact on how the jury is weighing the evidence. And if nothing else, when used in court, the thing that many people are arguing about is how they're painting a narrative about some of these rappers and the genre of rap as a

whole, rappers themselves as individuals, and then particularly those who are standing trial. It's getting people to believe that they're predisposed to committing certain criminal acts, even if these are entirely fictitious accounts or forms of artistic expression and the like. Have there been cases where the art wasn't fictitious? I think about, you know, where is the line? If a rapper says, you know, I killed Mike on 354 State Street, and then they go to 354 State Street and they find Mike there, is that something that can be further investigated? Or should there be this, you know, golden rule that, well, that was art, man, you can't be using the art in court, you know? That's where a lot of the debate hinges. And what most people will say is that if you make a specific claim in lyrics that point to a specific crime

that only the person who committed the crime could have known, you should reasonably expect that your lyrics will be used against you. As MF Doom said, you'd be a rap snitch telling all your business, going in the court,

be your own star witness. Do you see the perpetrator? Yeah, I'm right here. Fuck around. Get the whole label set up for years. telling all your business, going in the court, be your own star witness. So like, in that instance, it's permissible and it makes sense. But what most people are decrying is the broader sense in which rap lyrics are used to paint a narrative about these young Black men and women who have a predisposition to commit criminal offenses. They're inclined to be inherently violent. And as a consequence, you can use their lyrics almost to a sole degree as a form of evidence. That's what people have an issue with.

So when you look at criminal proceedings, what we have to weigh is that the court, if they're successful, are going to deprive you of your life, your liberty, or your property. And so in order to do that, they have to meet a burden of proof. They have to establish that you committed a crime beyond reasonable doubt. And to only base that on rap lyrics is insufficient. And where do you think we're heading with Young Thug and Gunna, two of the biggest rappers in the United States and thus the world? I think it's different with each of them.

So on its face, the initial indictment, I thought was lazy in some of its presumptions and the indictment that originally was made public. I think here they may have gone a step too far because they're charging these individuals with criminal activity, crimes under Georgia law, which really may be limited to just things they've said either on social media or in song lyrics. And ultimately, I think that's going to be a problem. I think what has shifted, I guess, our analysis in the time there since is that we have learned that there are people who are willing to testify against Young Thug. And there's other evidence that they believe, the prosecution believes that they have, that they can use against him.

I think that's what shifts the scales against Thug. And regrettably, he is facing potentially some serious time in prison based on if, again, the prosecution can prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. But what I'm saying is that it appears as though the prosecution, at the very least with Thug, has more evidence against him than just his lyrics. And so as a consequence, that's something that should be troubling to him. So we'll see how it goes. For people who are struggling to wrap their heads around

why someone like Young Thug would be wrapped up in potentially, you know, RICO cases and gang violence. What's going on there? Is there something about where he's from that doesn't allow him to escape? I'll say a couple of things to that. Young Thug in particular and many rappers more broadly come from some of the most marginalized communities in all of the country. They're in some of the most least desirable parts of cities

that have been laid to waste by urban neglect and other discriminatory policies. And so it makes sense then that hip-hop, a culture that emerged from the inner city in the U.S., is going to be predominated by people who come from these types of circumstances and at times document their lived experience in their music, even if they take creative license. To put it succinctly,

when you got someone like Thug coming from the trap and your living condition looks like a trap, it's going to be difficult for you to make it out outside of a box or in a cage. And Young Thug did the miraculous and did that. And he was trying to bring a lot of his people with him. And some of those people did not have the same access that some of his colleagues' networks may have had access to. And that's not necessarily something we should punish them for. And so with that, I hope that Thug continues to get a fair trial. I hope his legal counsel mounts a vigorous defense for him. And we'll see what happens from there.

I gotta tell you that you're going to die. Professor Timothy Welbeck, he's the director for the Anti-Racism Center at Temple University. He's a civil rights attorney in Philadelphia, and he's a rapper wherever you listen. He goes by Timothy Welbeck. I go by Sean Ramos for him. Early in the show, you heard from Jewel Wicker from Capital B. Our producer goes by Hadi Mawagdi. Our fact checker is Laura Bullard.

And Nafim Shapiro mixed and mastered this episode of Today Explained. I always knew that I'd be great Cause my coach told me I was slow, but I was running at a fast pace and mastered this episode of Today Explained. They say you're poor cause you're black right to your face They say where you live you'll never be able to own that place My father said you can change it all with your performance And by the way your life's a heavy stone charm They take the land and give the tent who all can come But I tell you with a long sleeve I bear on I'm high enough to be on a milky way till morning

If you want it you gon' get up earlier than anyone If you want it you gon' get up earlier than anyone If you want it, you can pick it up earlier than anyone Put on my socks, grab my glove The stick under the couch, tie up my shoes And flip-flops, it's top of the top R.P. Nelson, you know what I'm saying? If you were the one in my shoes, would you love me? Would you love me? Would you love me?

If you were the one You were the one That made the prejudice So white