Today, Explained - Generation Gentle Parent

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

Many millennials are pushing back against traditional parenting styles used by their boomer parents. We explore the confusion and chaos in today's parenting with a mom and her mom. This episode was produced by Victoria Chamberlin, edited by Miranda Kennedy, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Andrea Kristinsdottir and Patrick Boyd, and hosted by Noel King. Transcript at vox.com/today-explained-podcast Support Today, Explained by becoming a Vox Member today: http://www.vox.com/members James Austin Johnson as a gentle parenting father during an "Airport Parade" sketch on SNL. Photo by Will Heath/NBC via Getty Images. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gentle parenting is hard, even for the super practitioners like influencer Olivia Owen. And when you're all done, then we can get you down and you can go play with the toys. It's hard to hear a toddler out. So we definitely will get in the face of our toddler and ask him how he's feeling and help him have feelings where... It's hard to explain this mess to your boomer parents. And I think that they are super skeptical of what we're doing. And it is very, very hard for your parents to understand what you even think you're doing. It's just exhausting.

They just go round and round and round talking. So why are we doing it? The head today explained is for the children. Air Transat presents two friends traveling in Europe for the first time and feeling some pretty big emotions. This coffee is so good! How do they make it so rich and tasty? Those paintings we saw today weren't prints. They were the actual paintings. I have never seen tomatoes like this. How are they so red?

With flight deals starting at just $589, it's time for you to see what Europe has to offer. Don't worry, you can handle it. Visit airtransat.com for details, conditions, and supply. Air Transat. Travel moves us. Today, today, explained. So cute. Growing up, we had a wooden paddle that was just always sitting out and if we misbehaved or acted out or talked back we would get the paddle and even though I think this is effective because we were well behaved kids when I first had to try to spank my son I could not bring myself to do it. It just broke my heart. We asked you to call the Today Explained hotline if you are gentle parenting, and many of you

wanted to talk about the way that you were parented. And we get it. The paddle, the wooden spoon, the slipper, the switch. Were our Boomer parents just kind of mean? Allison Schaefer is a longtime family counselor and parenting teacher, and she says no, they were not. But there really is something to the old chestnut that times have changed. The history, if we go back and look at sort of North American culture anyway,

we came from a history where the goal of parenting was to raise children who would mind our will to be obedient. And that, if you think about parenting, the general idea of parenting is preparing the child to be competent to enter the greater world once they leave your home. We came from a society where you would have gone into the workforce that was very hierarchical. Colonialism, where the power was really cloistered up high on top and you had to mind your will and be subservient if you were going to survive even in the industrial revolution to go work the lines or to go work in the mines. And so obedience was the goal of parenting and to raise an obedient child, you really had only two parenting tools that you had to master. And that was either punishments, which we, you know, the corporal punishment with the

paddles or the threats. But it was a fear, it was fear-based and it worked. It did make kids become obedient. We don't like that so much. We realize that we probably have emotional scars. We know that it hurts self-esteem and whatnot. And what we're seeing now with gentle parenting and some of these other brand names is really a move towards a different goal altogether, which is about how do we raise a cooperative child who behaves not because they're fearful, but they behave because they realize it's the right code of conduct, it's the good thing to do. That's a very different goal and it's very new, it's very fresh and that's why we're having this cultural confusion. All right, so that brings us to gentle parenting, a term that is all over the internet.

Does it have a formal definition? So we know Sarah Ackwell-Smith out of the UK came up with it. It's just simply treating our children in the way that we would like to be treated ourselves as adults, but also if we think back to when we were children, what would we like from our parents and our carers? So if we were struggling with something which perhaps came across in our behavior, how would we like them to treat us? And the qualities that she would include in there are sort of empathy and understanding, respect, healthy boundaries.

And then in her particular brand, there is a lot of emphasis on emotions. We're kind of on fire for emotions as a thing right now. As I look at those and dig into what she's writing, I would say, okay, she's most closely aligned with that backbone style of parenting, the firm and friendly. So on that note, I would say, okay, I'm in with gentle parenting.

I'll give that my stamp of approval from my training and expertise. But then when parents come to me and they say, oh, well, we're trying to practice gentle parenting. So the other day when I was trying to get my kid to get off the swing to come home from the park, I did X, Y and Z. And I'm like, oh, see, that's not firm enough. That's you're actually being permissive. So I think it's just being misapplied.

I want you to be nice about going home though, okay? Yeah. We had a great time at the park, but it's time to be nice and go home now, right? Yeah. We're going home, and when we get home, we will get you some lunch, okay? So when your little one makes comments like,

you're not nice, I don't like you, don't take it personally. This is a perfect opportunity for you to say, wow, you're feeling really angry, you're feeling really frustrated. That's okay. I'm here for you. I agree that we need to make sure that we understand that feelings are facts and that all emotions are fine. All emotions can be expressed and there's a place for all the rainbow of emotions that we have. But it's the dwelling on it that is the problem where we have research that says, you know, the more you focus on it, the more it's like adding gasoline to a fire. So if we're suddenly talking about a child's

being upset about something and we go on and on thinking we're emotionally co-regulating them, then they don't learn self-regulation because we're actually dwelling on the fact that they had a bad day at school and the teacher didn't pick them and something bad happened on the school ground. Now, instead of them getting over it and moving on to playing and being distracted

and new things at home, now suddenly we've carved out another hour to keep the spotlight on this bad part of their day. And we think we're doing a helpful service. When we say gentle parenting, we're both talking about a way of doing things and kind of a vibe of doing things. But I'm assuming that there are other kind

of identifiable styles of parenting. There's all these brands, but if you're looking at the research, we basically look at four styles of parenting. There's all these brands, but if you're looking at the research, we basically look at four styles of parenting. And those four styles are categorizing parenting by those two qualities I mentioned at the top, which is about firmness and friendliness. So if you are very firm, but you're not friendly, then you're autocratic. You're ruling with an iron fist.

That's the strict parenting that we would recognize. But on the other hand, if you're not firm, you can't hold a boundary, you can't say no to your kid, and you're super friendly, you're like, you know, you're a kind, loving, warm parent, but your kids walk all over you, that's permissive parenting. And if you can do neither firmness nor friendly, then you're a neglectful parent.

And the one that I'm talking about that is the one that we're seeing blossoming that's so important for parents to embrace is that hybrid of being both firm because kids do need limits and boundaries. They do need guidance. They do need to be socialized on how you behave in a group.

But we don't need to do it in harsh ways. There are ways that you can learn to enforce a limit and boundary and do training that doesn't require a wooden spoon or a shaming, you know, those types of things from the past. So it's new tools. It's a new approach. And that's what we call democratic. That's that firm and friendly combination that seems to be heard because parents go, was that too firm? Was that too friendly? Where's the line? When millennial parents or parents of younger children, so I'm thinking millennial, maybe older Gen Z even, when they come to your office because they're having trouble with their kids, what kinds of things are they typically having trouble with?

The common misbehaviors that you see in childhood. So what I would see is things like, I can't get them to bed. They keep coming out of their room. I have to kiss all their teddy bears. I can't get them to stay in the bed or they crawl into my bed. Or I can't get them out the door in the morning. I'm dropping them off late for kindergarten or daycare. The morning is just a screaming match of trying to get to work

on time. Picky eating up and down from the table, won't pick up toys, rude attitude. And more recently, I'm really seeing an uptick also in anxiety, which ties to parenting too, believe it or not. Have the kids changed or have the parents? Like over time, are the, I have to kiss every one of the kids' animals, they wanna get into the bed with me. Was that the same way 20 years ago? Has that always been a thing? The behaviors that we're seeing from the children

is because the parenting has changed. And so when parents decided that they wanted to be warmer and friendlier, which I think is fantastic. That quality of parenting is super important. We've learned that we don't want to have small T traumas with our kids. And there is that parenting has an impact. I think we have to remember back in the day,

we didn't know that environment changed a child's development. Now we do. And so we're almost apoplectic with concern that if I say the wrong thing or my kid cries, if I don't let them in the bed and they get upset about it, that I better open a bank account and start putting money away for them to get therapy when they're older. So parents think they're traumatizing their kids all the time whenever there's a big emotion. So they're kind of fearful

of their children's big emotions and that lets the kids really get away with murder. I think that there is an assumption for people who are not gentle parenting, that the folks who are doing it are just, they're just spoiling their kids, or they just don't have enough backbone. We got a very interesting call from a listener, Josiah in Oregon, who said,

the reason that he is rejecting more authoritarian parenting is because he is actually thinking 15 years down the line and what his relationship is like with his kid when his kid is no longer a kid. Let me play you that tape. I had my kids when I was really young. had my kids when I was really young. And that means that for a lot of their adult lives, I'm going to be alive and an adult with them. And so I know that what I'm doing now is making that relationship possible for the rest of our lives so that when they have kids, so that when they have kids, I'll be able to hold those babies. I hear so much pain in his voice. That was emotional for me to listen to. You can tell. I really don't know what his childhood was like. But he brings up something really important, which is the power of relationship. And that's why we can't be too punitive,

because that does break down not only the self-esteem of the child, but what it does is it deteriorates the relationship and we do need family and we do need strong relationships within the family for a healthy development and especially in the teen years. Because in the teen years, your biggest parenting tool is the power of the relationship and your child not wanting to disappoint you when they're out and about in the world because you can't follow them everywhere. You can't go to every party. You can't sit in every classroom to make sure they're not on their phone and that they're listening to the teacher. So you have to really rely on influence rather

than control. Being a good disciplinarian does not mean that you are going to lose the relationship. You can be a very good disciplinarian. Kids need leadership. They security comes with boundaries and predictability and stability. And they want to know there's somebody big in the house who's looking after them. Because if you're six years old

and you think that there's like nobody running this place because you're so permissive and can't set a boundary, and when I cry I get my way, then I'm the most powerful person in this house and I'm just a kid. That's not safe. Allison Schaefer, family counselor, longtime parenting teacher. Coming up, a gentle parent speaks. love with a sports book born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with Bet MGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about Bet MGM.

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You're listening to Today's Wage. I'm Noelle King, we're back with Lauren Nicholson, one of the parents who called in to tell us about gentle parenting her two kids. She's a 39-year-old sales rep for a publishing company in Atlanta, Georgia. She has girls, five and two and a half, and she describes her own upbringing as old school

and somewhat fondly remembers the boomer SmackDown. Now Lauren identifies as a gentle-ish parent, which looks like this. My daughter right now, my five-year-old, is very fussy about her socks, putting them on and specifically how they feel. She's very tactile and, mom knows, she's just very weird about how her clothes feel. And so it's like, you want to acknowledge that this is a very big deal to her,

but you also need to teach her that this does not matter and you cannot let this be a big deal. So how do you kind of coach her through it, but also acknowledge like you need to get out of your head here. You need to get out of your own way child. And so like not overreacting. And how does that present? Like how does that make your morning harder?

Oh my word. She's on the floor crying going, my socks don't fit right. And then, you know, her other, her younger sister is running around, pulling out her hair bow, not putting on her socks, taking off her diaper, flinging it around while you're trying to get out the door on time. Because if you are late to her school, they will literally lock the door and make you go in and fill out a form and shame you into writing why you're late and why are you late? Oh, because my daughter's socks didn't fit right. You know,

it's like you can't put that on a Google form. That turns into five minutes late, which turns into 10 minutes late, which means I'm not getting to work on time, which means my day is disrupted all because my five-year-old is frustrated over this one little thing. And so you're taking deep breaths because internally you're going down the rabbit hole of all of this is ruining my morning. Okay, so the reason that we're talking to you, Lauren, is that I presume you identify as a gentle parent. I would say all millennials can relate to being gentle-ish parents because we were raised,

most of us were raised by boomers. I can see my mother's face right now. And boomers maybe are more of an authoritarian kind of style of parenting. And I think millennials can relate more as a, we'll call it, we're relating to our kids' feelings more. And I think gentle parenting is a very hot button topic, because if you go out in the world and you say, I'm a gentle parent, you will be judged. Like parents will come for you and look at you like, what? So I think it's more about acknowledging your kid in the moment. I think that we parent our kid for exactly who they are. I think that's maybe what gentle parenting is trying to accomplish is parent the child you have,

as opposed to parenting in broad strokes the same way for all your kids. But I don't know. I'm not a parenting expert. So how do you handle, let's say, a little tantrum on the floor about the socks in a way, specifically, that you think is differently than the way your mom might have done. It depends on which parenting blog you've read, which internet mom you're following that day, which answer you want to get.

That's the problem with being a parent in the modern world. It's overwhelming. The consumption of advice you get, like who knows what we're doing? We're all just grasping at straws. But the basic concept is, I can see that you're really upset about this right now. I'm sorry about that. That must be really hard for you. Can I help you?

It looks like maybe you need a little bit of help. Let's get this situation solved so we can move on. Okay. If I am under caffeinated and tired, it is girl, put your socks on, we're moving forward. So it's just like we try to look at our kids and treat them like almost like adults, but they aren't adults.

So we're just trying to acknowledge their feelings a little bit more. Not every day, not all day, but that's the goal in kind of the way that we parent them. Okay, Christy, I hear you chuckling. Oh my gosh. Christy Doak has been listening into all of this. Christy is Lauren's mom, perpetrator of the boomer smackdown, and gentle parenting has

brought Christy to the brink. If I've heard Lauren and her husband say, I see you're frustrated, one time I've heard it 10 million times. They're always talking it through and giving her time and space to talk through it. It is very gentle and it takes, who has that kind of time? No wonder you're late. You just say to her, Sutton, if you have these pair of socks, pick the most comfortable socks, you have 30 seconds, if you don't, I'm picking for you and we're out the door.

That's my version of gentle parenting, rather than slamming the socks. I do respect that she has these challenges. Who has time to talk it all through? They do. They talk everything out. Back in the 80s and 90s, if Lauren had thrown a fit about something that you thought was, you know, a bit a bit minor or a bit absurd, how would you have handled it? What did you, how did you talk to Lauren? What did you do? Um, with a lot less, a lot less talking,

a lot less talking, probably a lot less acknowledgement of her feelings, I think, Probably a lot less acknowledgement of her feelings, I think, and a lot more, this too shall pass. I think now there is so much acknowledgement of her feeling. And it has given her, I think, a sense of entitlement that I didn't allow my kids to have. She's very into herself, and it plays out in ways that I wouldn't have put up with. And I don't know if that's good or bad. I can't think of a time that child has ever been yelled at. Now, in my day, I was a gentle parent. I'm not kidding you.

I can't think that they've raised their voice with her. Lauren, I'm not exaggerating. I've probably yelled at her more than you've ever yelled at her. You think? We absolutely raise our voice with our child. So let's be very clear. I don't hear it. We absolutely, we do.

We totally holler at her. We raise our voice. But like the yelling and the like, the, no, we don't really yell at our kids. We don't. They're kind of, the style of parenting that they have now doesn't have consequences. I took toys away more often. I sent them into their rooms more often. Lauren's children and my other daughter's children as well, there's no consequential

parent, no consequences for the behaviors. It's generally a conversation. And it's generally a, let's talk about why did you hit your sister? Well, I'm like, you hit your sister, sit in that chair. I don't see that happening. Do you think, Christy, that it was easier to be a parent when you were raising your kids in the 80s and 90s? I think it was easier to be free of judgment because there weren't so many eyes on me. And so I think that Lauren feels more judged than I ever felt because she's out there and

she works in the field where she sees a lot of other mothers. I was younger than she was and I just didn't see it as much. Judgment's always been there. It's just now very up in your face because people look at it on the internet. One thing I'm trying to understand, Lauren, is whether gentilist parenting feels like something that you must do or something that you want to do because when you were four or five and you were told, look, just get it done, you didn't really like that. And so you're trying to do it differently.

Is this entirely a choice? I don't think that we look back on it and go, oh, we were yelled at and we had such a horrible childhood and our parents stomped around and screamed and this and that in a sense where we want to make a great change. And I give my parents incredible credit because I was my daughter. I was my five-year-old. I still am anxious and nervous and type A, which daughter. I was my five-year-old.

I still am anxious and nervous and type A, which explains why I love all the blogs and the internet. And my parents really did help me and they weren't screamers and they weren't yellers. And they had boundaries and they had rules and they had consequences. And I think at the end of the day, that's how all parents should parent. Kids shouldn't have, kids shouldn't just be like, you know, out in the world roaming. They do thrive on stability, structure, boundaries, consequences. I think what's happened is, is like most things,

maybe this generation has swung the pendulum just a little too far. These conversations are important because I'm listening to my mom talk about it, and she will say this stuff to our faces. Like, it's just funny, because she'll tease us, and we know it, but we still do it. Well, I don't think you're doing anything wrong with your kids. I do think occasionally if there's something that I think is a red flag,

and I try not to give advice, because I do think that you're a great mom. I think you and Greg are doing it the best you can, other than all of the talking. And I would say their daughter with me when she has a sock issue, if I say, you have three pair of socks, let's put them on, believe me, she picks the socks, she puts them on,

we're out the door in five minutes. Christy Doak and her daughter, Lauren Nicholson. Thank you to all of you who called in with your stories. I'm not going to tell on you. Victoria Chamberlain produced today's show and we think she turned out great. Miranda Kennedy edited, Andrea Christen's daughter and Patrick Boyd engineered, and Laura Bullard checked the facts. The rest of our team includes Avishai Artsy, Hadi Muwagdi, Amanda Llewellyn, Miles Bryan,

Peter Balanon-Rosen, Travis Larchuk, Rob Byers, and Sean Romasper. Our supervising editor is Amineh El-Sadi, our executive producer is Miranda Kennedy, and we use music by Breakmaster Cylinder. Today Explained is distributed by WNYC. The show is a part of Vox. You can support our journalism by joining our membership program today. Go to vox.com slash members to sign up. I'm Noelle King.

This has been Today Explained.