Today, Explained - High crimes

Episode Date: April 1, 2021

New York is the latest state to legalize recreational marijuana, but President Joe Biden won’t budge. This means that it’s possible to become a billionaire or a convicted felon for selling weed in the US. Transcript at vox.com/todayexplained. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The all-new FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino is bringing you more action than ever. Want more ways to follow your faves? Check out our new player prop tracking with real-time notifications. Or how about more ways to customize your casino page with our new favorite and recently played games tabs. And to top it all off, quick and secure withdrawals. Get more everything with FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600.

Visit connectsontario.ca. New York became the latest state to legalize recreational marijuana this week in opposition to federal law where it's still a Schedule I controlled substance, making the United States even more so a great place to become a billionaire or a federal convict for selling weed. To explain, we reached out to Kyle Yeager. I'm the associate editor of Marijuana Moment.

And Kyle, for anyone who doesn't know, what is Marijuana Moment? Marijuana Moment. And Kyle, for anyone who doesn't know, what is Marijuana Moment? Marijuana Moment is a cannabis policy wire service. We cover cannabis policy from the local to international level, but our main focus is on state legislatures and Congress. Okay, so it's not like High Times. It is not like High Times, no. We are the wonky cousin, I guess, of high times.

Twice removed. And the reason we're talking to you today is because yesterday there was huge news. There was a big marijuana moment in this country when New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, a very controversial figure, did something outside of his controversy. He signed a bill to legalize marijuana in New York State. Yeah, big deal. Yeah, a huge deal. Today we are ending a 90-year prohibition. It's hard to overstate. New York is set to become the second biggest marijuana market in the country. We're talking automatic expungements for countless people with prior cannabis convictions on their records. And then just symbolically, you know, New York could boost momentum to legalize regionally and neighboring states,

but also federally. I mean, this is the Senate majority leader's home state, same with House Judiciary Chairman Nadler. And we're going to talk a lot more about expungement later in the show, but I want to talk a little bit just about legalization for now. What took New York so long? I mean, they're behind South Dakota, which legalized marijuana back in November, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, the governor has included proposals to legalize marijuana in his last three budget requests. Meanwhile,

legislative leaders have been working on their own legislation for almost a decade. And while they fundamentally, you know, agreed that it was time to stop criminalizing people over cannabis, they've butted heads, you know, until now negotiations have consistently stalled out over key provisions like, should adults be able to grow plants for personal use? How should tax revenue be appropriated? What should the licensing structure look like? The rules around impaired driving were also a major point of contention up until, you know, the very end in this round. You know, they resolved those issues, I think, in no small part because Democrats had more leverage with the supermajority in both chambers this session. And because the governor didn't want to be seen as having failed to make good on his pledge to legalize for another year.

And where does that put us now as a country, the United States? How much of this country has legalized recreational marijuana? That would be 16 states now, plus D.C., and then, you know, put another way, that's 40% of the American population live in a state with adult use legalization on the books. Well, South Dakota voters said yes on both Amendment A and Initiate Measure 26. This legalizes medical and recreational marijuana. And I should mention, while South Dakota voters did elect to legalize adult use marijuana in the November 2020 election, a state judge ruled in February that the initiative was unconstitutional because it violated what's known as a single subject rule for amendments, which is kind of

wonky. But basically, because the measure tackled legalization comprehensively, it dealt with licensing, taxes, penalties, etc. The court said it needed to be handled through the constitutional convention process instead of as a simple amendment. But advocates are planning to appeal that ruling with the state Supreme Court. So we'll see what happens. Okay, so a bit of an exception in South Dakota. I apologize. Yeah, so a little bit of an exception for South Dakota. But I will also mention that there are moves in other states still this year. We're going to see more states legalize in all likelihood. Virginia is probably next. The legislature put a legalization bill on his desk.

He just proposed some amendments, including to push up the timeline to allow for lawful possession and home cultivation. So the legislature is going to take those up and give final passage. I think it's on April 7th. Yesterday, New Mexico lawmakers held floor votes on a legalization bill and a separate expungements proposal that cleared committee in a special session convened by the governor. Rhode Island lawmakers are advancing legalization proposals, including one that's from the governor. And I would say also in Connecticut and Minnesota, I mean, there's legalization bills moving all across the country. Last one, Delaware.

In Delaware, a legalization bill passed its first committee last week. And those are just the recreational states. We haven't even started on medicinal marijuana. How much of it's legal in that case? Yeah, gosh, I mean, the vast majority. Advocates have different definitions for what they would define as an effective medical cannabis program. Like, you know, some states just allow limited CBD. Others are more comprehensive in how they approach medical cannabis. If you look at it in a more liberal way, it's like there are only like two states left without some form of medical cannabis. Which two are those?

That would be Idaho and Nebraska. What's up with Idaho and Nebraska? No sympathy for medicinal marijuana? Oh, I wouldn't say that. Nebraska lawmakers in particular, I mean, there's a duo, Senators Wishart and Moorfeld, who have just been really leading the charge. Lincoln State Senator Anna Wishart introduced LB 474 to legalize medical marijuana. But, you know, these are Republican-controlled legislatures. They have historically resisted reform. But, I mean, in both of those states, there has been action this session to enact reform. In Nebraska, you know, those senators

that I just mentioned are moving to put adult use legalization on the ballot, for example. I mean, you mentioned Republicans and Democrats and whatnot, but this doesn't feel like an issue that's sort of split among party lines even anymore. I mean, the former president didn't pursue violations of federal marijuana law too tough. And John Boehner, the former Speaker of the House, who's a, you know, banner Republican, is like now involved in the marijuana industry, right? Congress over the last couple of years has pretty much stopped any real enforcement of the federally funded institutions, cannot touch this, can't do research. Most every university takes federal funds.

They don't want to get very close to it. You've got the banking system that is scared to death to take this money, so there's a lot of cash rolling around. And so it's time for the federal government to take another look at this. And I think descheduling this drug, allowing for the research, would be very helpful to the American people. Yeah, I mean, if you're looking at polling, I mean, this is a bipartisan issue now, especially medical cannabis. I mean, we're talking upwards of 80 percent support, you know, including a majority, a strong majority of Republicans. It's just when you, you know, enter state legislatures or you enter Congress, for some reason, there's this disconnect between the will of voters and their elected officials. So, I mean, you're right that

this is a bipartisan issue now. It's just taking a little more time to trickle into legislation. How big is this industry right now in this country, and how fast is it growing? It's enormous and growing, especially with the addition of New York. Sometimes you need to stop worrying and take a deep breath. Sometimes you need cannabis. Introducing Brightside, high-quality cannabis delivered right to your door. Thank you. alone, and it contributes hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue annually. In New York, there are projections that the cannabis industry is going to be worth $4.2 billion within five years of implementation. $4.2 billion. That's right. And it's just going to continue to grow

from there. You know, that's been the trend in other states that have legalized. I mean, what's remarkable, I think, especially amid the pandemic, is that if you look at data from Oregon and from Illinois, at a time where businesses have been shuttering, where people have been cash-strapped, you're seeing month-over-month record-breaking sales. Last year, legal sales in the U.S. hit a record of almost $18 billion. In five years, experts believe it'll total $50 billion. Why do you think that is, Kyle? It's almost as if people really like marijuana.

I think that's pretty much what it comes down to. People really like cannabis. And I think this pandemic has just really exacerbated some of the anxieties that people have and people seek out cannabis for. And also the fact that we're all stuck at home. What are you going to do after your Zoom calls? Hey, I know you don't smoke weed. I know this, but I'm going to get you high today because it's Friday, you ain't got no job, and you ain't got shit to do.

It seems so innocuous. You know, I'm going to eat a little gummy and fall asleep in 16 states where this is now recreationally legal or even, you know, smoke some weed for my chronic pain, which might be legal in as much as 48 states. And yet important to remember through all of this that marijuana consumption is still, by and large, completely illegal at the federal level, right? That's correct. Where does the Biden administration stand on this issue? The Biden administration is not supportive of adult use legalization, and that was confirmed by the press secretary this week. He spoke about this on the campaign. He believes in decriminalizing the use of marijuana, but his position has not changed. This is someone who, during his time in the Senate, came from a very drug warrior mentality,

helped craft legislation that was really punitive as it concerns not just cannabis, but other drugs. But, you know, that said, he's evolved to an extent. He does support medical cannabis legalization. He is in favor of expunging prior records, decriminalizing marijuana federally, letting states set their own policy. But when it comes to recreational legalization, you know, it's going to be really, really interesting to see what happens when legislation is introduced and potentially sent to his desk.

Because Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is working on that. He said the bill is going to be released shortly. Same on the House side, the Moore Act from Chairman Nadler. He said that he will be reintroducing it this session as well. And Biden caught a little bit of heat for what, like preventing people who had prior marijuana arrests or convictions on their records from working in the White House. Is that true? Yeah. So this was the Daily Beast report about dozens of staffers who had been either fired or otherwise penalized, whether it's a suspension or placed in a remote work program, for admitting to prior cannabis use as part of their background

check process. The White House has clarified that, you know, they say only five people were fired because of how they answered these questions. The press secretary later clarified that these were not for infrequent use or from use that was years ago. But while she was quick to say that the administration has a more lax policy compared to past administrations, she also said Biden would not unilaterally change the White House's employment policy with respect to cannabis until marijuana is federally legalized. So there's still that risk factor, despite the fact that Vice President Harris, for example, has joked about using marijuana in college during her presidential campaign.

Have you ever smoked? I have. Okay. And I inhale. I did inhale. Is this putting President Biden out of step with the American people as far as public opinion on this issue is concerned? He's far out of step with public opinion, which I think shows,

you know, the polling ranges, but we're talking usually mid-60s, but constantly growing in support of legalization. But more specifically, he's vastly out of step with his own party. You know, a super majority of Democrats support comprehensive legalization. They support expungements. They support, you know, holistically ending the drug war and promoting social equity in these industries. And he's just kind of stuck in this holding pattern with no signs that he's willing to budge. And do we have any idea why? Is it just because he's plain old-fashioned or is there something else going on here? I will say it was recently reported that he felt that backing legalization while he was still campaigning for president,

he felt that would have alienated certain quote-unquote working class voters. And while the evidence really suggests the very opposite of that, it's hard to square just because the polling is so consistent and he has this data available to him. But there's also the fact that his family has a history with substance misuse.

And I think that might play a factor in this. But I think he's an old school guy who's still kind of holds on to certain myths and stigmas around marijuana and other drugs. I think what will be interesting to see is when and if a bill gets to his desk, would he veto it? You know, it's like, we know he's supportive of more modest reforms. He's recognized the harms of

criminalization, but is his opposition to adult use so strong that he would actually reject legislation, you know, that's presented to him to finally end federal prohibition? And until that day, we're just stuck in this sort of patchwork of recreational legalization, medicinal legalization, and the illegality of marijuana by and large at the federal level. Yeah, exactly. Something's got to budge eventually. I mean, Mexico's Senate is expected to vote on a legalization bill within, you know, the coming days. Mexico is on the verge of becoming the largest legal cannabis market in

the world. So we're going to be bordered by two countries with legalization on the books. The maple leaf is turning green. Canada, our neighbor to the north, becomes one of two countries in the world to legalize marijuana for recreational use. In the interim here, one positive piece of news for advocates is that Attorney General Garland had said repeatedly during his confirmation proceedings that he does not think it's a wise use of Justice Department resources to prosecute people for acting in compliance with state marijuana laws. We can focus our attention on violent crimes and other crimes that put great danger in our society and not allocate our resources to something like marijuana possession. Under the Obama administration, there was the Cole Memo,

which laid out guidance to federal prosecutors that generally deprioritized that kind of low-level enforcement. The new attorney general seems to be following suit, and so I don't expect any kind of crackdown, but you're right. This patchwork is going to persist until federal law changes. Kyle Yeager writes for Marijuana Moment. It's nothing like High Times, but they're cousins, twice removed. Find Marijuana Moment at marijuanamoment.net.

Find High Times at hightimes.com. We got to do that one thing, and then we're going to talk about justice. Support for today explained comes from Ramp. Ramp is the corporate card and spend management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket. Ramp says they give finance teams unprecedented control and insight into company spend. With Ramp, you're able to issue cards to every employee with limits and restrictions and automate expense reporting so you can stop wasting time at the end of every month. And now you can get $250 when you join Ramp. You can go to ramp.com slash explained. Ramp.com slash explained.

R-A-M-P dot com slash explained. Cards issued by Sutton Bank. Member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. of the NBA has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style, there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM.

Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with bet mgm a sports book worth a slam dunk an authorized gaming partner of the nba bet mgm.com for terms and conditions must be 19 years of age or older to wager ontario only please play responsibly if you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. So on Tuesday, I tweeted in all excitement over New York's marijuana victory, I can't stop thinking about Ramali Graham.

Queen Adasui is with the Drug Policy Alliance. It's an advocacy outfit that's trying to end the war on drugs. Ramali Graham was an 18-year-old from the Bronx who was chased by NYPD into his home and tragically murdered before his grandmother as he allegedly was flushing marijuana down the toilet. And it was the fear and the stigma behind his possession of marijuana that really led to his death and murder by police. That took place when I was a senior in high school. I was 17. He was 18. I'm also from the Bronx. I mean, at that time, I never really had a world outside of the Bronx. So it really shook me at that time. And it still shakes me to this day. And now the same plant is now being legalized in New York. I mean, it's important that we reflect on the individuals who are lost, people who have been deported, people who have really been traumatized and dealing with the impact of marijuana enforcement throughout the state. Can you give me a bit of the history of how marijuana has been policed differently across the country,

across different communities in the United States historically? Yeah, so marijuana is used relatively at the same rate across races. But throughout this country and historically and currently, Black and brown and low-income communities have been disproportionately impacted by marijuana arrests. So one of the latest reports from the ACLU shows that across the country, Black people are four times more likely to be arrested for marijuana as opposed to their white counterparts. Again, despite the fact that Black and white folks use marijuana at similar rates. And in some places, that rate is as high as nine to 10 times more than likely. So when we're thinking about the effort to really roll back marijuana prohibition,

it's really critical to sit in the fact that certain communities have been impacted by criminalization more than others. And when we're looking at the industry that's being born of advocacy efforts and being born of legalization, it's tragic to watch the industry being dominated by white males who are wealthy just because we can acknowledge the fact that the brunt of prohibition has been borne by communities of color. How are states making justice a part of the picture? States are more and more paying attention to racial justice and paying attention to justice reform. So we're not seeing things happen like in Colorado, where when legalization happened, people who had criminal records around marijuana or other drug offenses were being shut out

from the industry. Colorado's effort to legalize marijuana happened during a time where legalization efforts were not necessarily grounded in racial justice and justice where legalization efforts were not necessarily grounded in racial justice and justice reform and folks were not having the same kind of robust conversation about expungement, resentencing, home grow. And New York's legalization effort and the bill that just passed and is signed into law now just has far more progressive provisions in it that actually speak to what people want in the community around the inclusion of criminal justice reform provisions, the importance of making sure that the majority of tax revenue is used for community reinvestment.

And it's definitely a marker for the rest of the country to look to. How many people are still being arrested for, you know, small possession of marijuana each year in this country at this point? Yeah, so we see over 600,000 arrests a year, and the majority of arrests are for possession only. And that's the sad part about how our enforcement actually impacts people and the principles behind why we're even doing this. The majority of people who are impacted by marijuana arrests are people who have small amounts on them, people who are using for personal use. With all of the legalization and with expungement being a bigger part of the conversation than it has been historically,

are you feeling hopeful about the future? Yes, I'm definitely feeling hopeful about, you know, the marijuana justice fight broadly, just because we successfully really shifted the conversation from should we legalize to how we should do it. I mean, we made history last year in 2020 with the passage of the MORE Act. For the first time, a chamber of Congress actually voted positively to end criminalization on the federal level through this racial justice and economic justice lens. But I think we're really flying a plane while building it at the same time in terms of what is the exact best ways to make sure that we're reaching the most vulnerable in our communities and to make sure that we're actually

building out an industry within, you know, a capitalist system that will be centering marginalized folks. I think something that advocates haven't really felt like they have a grasp on when we're doing this work is pushing back against capitalism. That's essentially what's happening. Post legalization, we're really trying to grapple with how to make a capitalist system more equitable, which is a huge feat. Yeah. the first time I got high was back in high school. I was actually coming back from Bolivia. I went my sophomore and junior year. I stayed in La Paz, Bolivia, where my father is from. And having gone to a private school, I was surprised to see my buddies at a sleepover party pull out the bong, man, my buddy John. And I woke up still baked. And because

I was stressed as a kid, man, like me and the plant, I fell in love with her and she's been with me ever since. My name is Daniel Montero. I'm in San Jose, California, and I'm a career cannabis operator. The first time I was arrested for marijuana was as a result of selling it full-time illegally. I got pulled over in Los Gatos, California. I got nervous. I was young back then. I was like 19 years old, 20 years old. And I got caught with nine eighths. So after serving time in county jail that summer,

I participated in a RCP program, which allowed me to go from a felony to a misdemeanor. And then the second time I got arrested was for cultivating marijuana full time at my residence. I turned out the master bedroom. It was a commercial operation. It wasn't personal. And luckily, because I did have a cool, awesome attorney, he allowed me to, again, spend the summer in county jail versus going to prison. So I'm somebody who didn't get that expunged immediately.

And because I was able to jump back in the marijuana business, I didn't have to worry about seeking the approval of an employer and so forth. And as I realized that certain qualifications had to be met to participate in the legal industry, especially considering the future of cannabis in California, where if you don't have everything lined up in a row, it's easy to fail. It is at that point in 2017, seven years later, that I engaged with San Jose State University expungement program. The expungement process took about nine months or so, about a year. I'm grateful for San Jose State University because I didn't have to do it on my own. They literally held me by the hand. It was a drawn out process going through the court system, going to the sheriff's department and getting my complete criminal record.

But nonetheless, I received no judgment. I received positive vibes the whole time. I believe there was some court costs involved, but as far as San Jose State, it was pro bono, man. Awesome. And it was just, to me, a gift to be able to experience it in that way versus if I were from maybe another city in California and there's no programs like that, it'd be a daunting experience. And it's evolved so much now with being able to expunge records automatically. It's just a beautiful thing to see. Back in 2017, that was not even a thought that occurred to me. We were just fighting tooth and

nail to do it on an individual basis. I'm not jealous. I understand this is a long process to heal from the war on drugs. We're destigmatizing the plant. We're destigmatizing what used to be viewed as criminal activity. So now my self perception, it's important. And part of the expungement process is being able to look at myself in the mirror and understand that I'm not a criminal anymore. Thank you.