Today, Explained - How the right embraced psychedelics

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

The MAGA right is enthusiastically embracing a potent psychedelic called ibogaine. Its the new counter-counter-culture. This episode was produced by Kelli Wessinger with help from Danielle Hewitt, edited by Miranda Kennedy with help from Jolie Myers, fact-checked by Gabriel Dunatov, engineered by David Tatasciore and Bridger Dunnagan, and hosted by Jonquilyn Hill. President Donald Trump signing an executive order to further medical research for certain psychedelic drugs, with Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., podcaster Joe Rogan, and W. Bryan Hubbard, CEO of Americans for Ibogaine looking on. Photo by Jim WATSON / AFP via Getty Images. Listen to Today, Explained ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. New Vox members get $20 off their membership right now. Transcript at ⁠vox.com/today-explained-podcast.⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Trump administration is all in on legalizing a psychedelic drug called Ibogaine, and it is a major trip. It was like the ultimate ass kicking. It was miserable like I was throwing up. It's classified as a Schedule I drug, which means it's illegal on the federal level. But a couple studies show it may be able to treat opioid addiction, and some researchers are hopeful that it can help with PTSD. That's got the attention of President Trump. and a certain popular podcaster, which means Ibegains having a moment. Today on the show, how the Wright got into psychedelics and the story of how they're pushing the Trump administration to legalize them. Strap in.

We're going on a trip. What's up, y'all? I'm Skyler Diggins, seven-time WNBA All-Star, Olympic gold medalist, and mom. And I'm Cassidy Hubbard, host and reporter for nearly 20 years, covering the biggest names and stories in sports. And mom. And this is Am Mom, a community for athletes, game changers, and moms of all kinds. Dropping May 14th. Tap in with us.

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You can hear all of that on channels with Peter Kafka. That's out now, everywhere. It's today explained. I'm John Glyn Hill, sitting in. Mait the Busby is a journalist who covers drug policy. He's also British, so he says I began in a classier way than those of us on this side of the pond. Recently, he's been writing about the shifting attitudes on psychedelic drug policy in the U.S. And one of the biggest shifts is coming from the president.

Well, you know, he's famously never smoked a cigarette, had a drink, certainly not had a trip. So, you know, in the Oval Office the other week, he's kind of joking about taking Ibigain. I'll take whatever it takes soon. I don't have time to be depressed. And there's a lot of bravado there, but, you know, this Ibi Gain, is an incredibly potent psychedelic. It famously gives people sort of recalls of every traumatic moment in their life.

So, you know, I'm sure we'd all love to see Trump subject himself to that sort of experience. What is Ibegain? So it's like an extracted molecule from a West African, Gabonese specifically, root bark from a shrub, and basically became known as being able to rid opioid addicts, heroin addicts of withdrawal symptoms, you know, in one trip. Ibegaine has now entered the mainstream conversation with the Trump administration talking about legalizing certain psychedelics.

How do we get here? Yeah, I mean, psychedelics have obviously long belonged to the cultural left, the counterculture. We would all like to be able to live an uncluttered life, a simple life, a good life, you know, and like think about moving the whole human race ahead a step. And one of the ways of achieving that being is through drugs. But it seems now there's almost like a counter-culture with these sort of, you know, right-wing, sort of conservative, mostly Christian, former, you know, special forces, fighters, soldiers in the U.S. Army that, you know, suffering from really debilitating conditions from PTSD and TBI.

And they've basically figured out that Ibigain and indeed other psychedelics provides them the relief that conventional medicines don't. Okay, there's been a flurry of activity in this last month around psychedelics. And it had to do with, you know, who I consider the political kingmaker of the moment. And that's Joe Rogan. How is Joe Rogan involved in the policymaking? I mean, so he's had figures on his podcast since it began, right, talking about psychedelics. Rick Doblin, who is the head of maps or multidisciplinary association for psychedelic studies.

You know, the original sort of brocast dude Aubrey Marcus. What's going on? What's going on in your shirt? What is that? Got a lot going on there. It's like a penguin with shark teeth. This is my homage to Albert Hoffman in the creation of LSD. Oh, wow.

All through till today. And he's had the former Texas governor and Trump's first energy secretary, Rick Perry, on his podcast twice, along with a Kentucky lawyer and Ibrahimian advocate named Brian Hubbard, who sort of sounds like a Christian Southern revivalist. Every human being has stardust running through their blood. And the movement that Governor Perry and I are leading is one that aims to recognize the reality of that human divinity. and always quotes his favorite passage out of Isaiah. And we will crawl the last mile to deliver good tidens unto the meek, to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.

And so Joe Rogan had this unlikely duo, you know, who have both done Ibrahimine and are waxing lyrical about the benefits. He had them both on his podcast, like three weeks before, the executive order and they basically said, look, you know, Joe, we need to make this happen. So Joe texts Donald Trump and apparently Donald Trump responds almost instantaneously saying, you know, sounds good. Do you want FDA approval? Oh, that's all it takes? Allegedly. I mean, you know, they are accelerating the processes. And if you do see, you know,

this kind of cast of guys behind Trump, you know, there's a real cast of personalities like perhaps we've never seen before. And this all culminates with Joe Rogan actually going to the White House to attend the signing of an executive order about psychedelics. What's in that executive order? Well, I mean, the thing about executive order is it's sort of, you know, shouting into the wind a bit. But there is this money to go into the research side. And, you know, let's not forget these are Schedule I drugs. You know, ever since Richard Nixon, a fellow Republican, declares the war on drugs.

and really this is the biggest green light yet for potentially multi-billion dollar industry. I mean, it had like five or six prongs. One of the main ones is that now under right-to-try laws that Trump introduced in his first term to allow basically end-of-life patients to try experimental drugs, that will be extended to psychedelics so long as the DEA don't kind of try and obstruct that process. There's 50 million for psychedelic research, most of which it seems are going to support state-led initiatives to investigate Ibogaine and allow a sort of US-first human trial.

And also, it's accelerating the path to a potential approval for psychedelic drugs. And a week after, three candidates that had just submitted their data got sort of fast-tracked, you know, potential approval. So, you know, their applications will be considered. more quickly, so that would open the floodgates more widely to research. Do you expect the FDA to say, this is great, go ahead, use psychedelic drugs? They will help you. Like, what can we expect from regulators on this?

Yeah, I think that it's quite likely, really, within this presidency, you know, to see several, you know, psychedelic drugs approved now, which is, you know, a huge, a huge development, really. I mean, Joe Biden, there was talk about him setting up a federal task force and helping stuff along there. And, you know, he didn't seem to put any political will behind it. So, you know, Trump has really kind of seized the mantle here and he's sort of surfing the zeitgeist as he weirdly seems to be able to on, you know, certain topics all the while sort of outraging and, you know, provoking us along the way. There does seem to be some dissonance here, though. I mean, you mentioned Nixon before. The GOP traditionally was all about the war on drugs.

America's public enemy number one in the United States is drug abuse. They are bombing boats in South America over drugs. What is up with this switchup? Yeah, I mean, cocaine use in the U.S. is actually going down quite significantly. So the whole thing with bombing these fishermen boats is just crazy and completely illegal, but it is a geopolitical tool. I don't mean they really care about minimal cocaine imports. They wanted regime change in Venezuela.

And for decades, drugs, the specter of drugs has been a useful straw man to get involved in Latin America. There's a lot of dissonance. I think that, you know, broadly, though, we're seeing the war on drugs coming to an end, little by little, even despite the rhetoric here and there. And, you know, I think this is a significant threshold moment. Trump's always been kind of outside the Republican Party sort of establishment, to some extent, you know, compared to some other figures, previous presidents. It's not like it's been some sort of like topsy-turvy, you know, issue. The Democrats, when they've come in, there's been piecemeal, you know, changes. You know, I mean, Joe Biden himself introduced the laws when he was a senator, you know,

to make the punishments for crack cocaine, which is obviously more likely used by people of color. If you have a piece of crack cocaine, no bigger than this quarter that I'm holding in my hand, one quarter of one dollar, we passed a law through the leadership of Senator Thurham, and myself and others, a law that says, if you're caught with that, you go to jail for five years. You know, the penalty is like 30 times more stringent than for powder cocaine, which is used more often than, you know, white people. So I think that there's been a bipartisan issue, really, the war on drugs. Do we know who's using psychedelics? You mentioned that demographic breakdown. Do we have any idea about this class of drugs? I think, you know, the interesting thing with psychedelics now, as opposed to maybe 10, 15 years ago, is that sort of, you know, they've crossed the political divide. I think that, you know, a lot of people from unexpected segments of society are getting turned on because, you know, they are seeing, you know, broadly the benefits, even while there are serious risks, especially with Ibogaine.

So there was only one drug named in that executive order, and it was Ibegain. Why? The veterans, you know, these stories from veterans about the transformative effects of Ibegain have been really difficult to refute politically. 22 veterans, on average, are committing suicide in the U.S. every day. And Trump in the Oval Office, when he signed the order, said, Since 9-11, we've lost over 21 times more veteran lives to suicide than on the battlefields. There's so many congressmen and senators who are veterans themselves. There was a study from Stanford a couple of years ago.

They looked at 30 ex-special forces and, you know, found that a dose of Ibogaine reduced all of their traumatic brain injury significantly. But, you know, we shouldn't be under any illusions. This is a seriously potent and dangerous psychedelic when used improperly. And there's been a whole spate of deaths. Indeed, the deaths are probably underreported because the drug sort of disrupts the QT interval in the heart and can lead, you know, in some cases to, you know, fatal cardiac arrest. Coming up, we sit in the passenger seat for an Ibegain trip.

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That is V-A-T-A-com slash explained, Vanta.com slash explained. You're listening to Today Explained. Maita, you've taken Ibegain. What led you to that moment? So, you know, I don't think I'd necessarily do it again. I mean, it was a different period in my life, I guess, like doing it for journalism in a way, right? It was four years ago. I guess there was an element of curiosity, and I figured it could make for quite a compelling story.

It was, at the time, like, more professional Ibogaine clinics were opening up, and, you know, I had like a source for another story who was just opening a clinic. So he reached out to me, and at the time, I had an interview. really heard anything about it. And he was telling me that it can wipe out addiction and for people having, you know, crazy withdrawal symptoms, right? Like, if they don't take their opioid, they're like keeling over, they're super sick. And he was just sort of telling me that the kind of miraculous effects of it. And I wanted to see it for myself. And I was curious to experience it for myself. So I go down to this clinic in Cancun. The doctor comes in and he gives me the

like nine capsules of this, you know, root bark extract and gives a long spiel about how lucky we are and, you know, what an amazing journey we're going to have. And really, it was a, you know, a kind of white knuckle ride. Like, it's intensely dissociative. So I had all sorts of kind of fantastical visions. And yeah, I think the key thing for me was like not to sound too woo, but it really like connected me to like my parents and the gift of life really. And so yeah, luckily I was able to convey that to my father before he passed away. Wow. You know, but the crazy thing was is that a guy who arrived on my penultimate day

and he was like, you know, he just relapsed after a few years clean. But yeah, he dies after his Ibogaine trip at the same clinic. So I mean, that's part of the reason I might not do it again, right? How long was your trip? It's like 12 hours. And you're fully, like, wired up. Like, I had the IV in, that heart rate monitor, like, on my chest and my fingers. I mean, I think they actually gave me a relatively mild dose.

I think they actually were, in some ways, like, risk averse, although, you know, not so much that they couldn't avoid a death shortly after their opening. But, yeah, then it kind of, you know, winds down. But you literally can't stand up for, like, three or four hours. They call it like on the floor. Oh my, okay. Okay. So what is Ibegain then? You know, I've heard of magic mushrooms, their mushrooms. What is Ibogaine? Where does that come from? So, I mean, originally, there's a whole tradition around its use in Gabon. There's, you know, a religion, weaty, you know, is hundreds of years old. I mean, exactly how old is unclear. I think they only do

like one big, like Iboga trip. It's like a coming of age ritual in the beginning of someone's life. And then after that, you know, they don't take such a huge dose again. And then in the early 20th century, French chemists were researching a depression drug. And yeah, they extracted Ibogaine. And yeah, decades later, Howard Lotzoff takes Ibogaine by accident, basically. He was a heroin addict and in New York and realizes that he has no withdrawal symptoms. And then so he sets about on this crusade, a decades-long crusade, to get Ibogaine to addicts. So there's a lot of talk about Ibegayne in particular when it comes to mental health. Do we know that it helps with mental health issues? Well, the research is in its early days. It really is.

There's been a few observational studies, mostly for PTSD and traumatic brain injury. And obviously you've got this long and storied use in Gabon. So, yeah, it's difficult to say from a scientific perspective with much certainty. Obviously, this administration is putting a lot of onus on kind of stories, right? Like, if they say it works, it must work. But, yeah, clearly it needs, you know, a huge amount of more research. But it's difficult because it's been in schedule one. And, you know, the other psychedelics have maybe found, you know, simpler passage towards, you know, getting approvals for studies.

But even Ibogaine, you know, has been repeatedly blocked because of these cardiac risks that I mentioned. I was reading up on Ibogaine and I saw that it's kind of behind other psychedelics when it comes to solid research. Why is that? Well, basically, I guess when Howard Lotzoff was trying to, you know, get it through in the 80s, there were deaths happening in the underground. And so they didn't get the approvals. And, you know, because the sort of people that really want to do Ibogaine are, you know, people suffering from some of the most extreme afflictions possible.

so they're coming into it in quite a fragile state quite often and I guess to ensure the study it also might be quite expensive this is a perilous but promising drug and we had decades of the war on drugs and stigmatisation and obviously some of the you know the scare stories let's say about LSD for example are and were true

true, right? Like, if you do a huge amount of LSD, it might send you crazy or unearth, you know, craziness that you've got lurking inside of you. So, you know, this isn't for the faint-hearted and should be done in a, you know, sensible fashion. And we don't really have any sort of, you know, prevailing or kind of guiding wisdom, really, in society. So, you know, it has kind of been the blind leading the blind and it seems like their efforts are finally, you know, seeing some success. What have Ibegain advocates told you about the drug and what it's done for them? I mean, one of the, there was a couple of, well, several people behind Trump when he made the announcement who he got them to share their stories. It fixed my demonic relationship with

alcohol. It saved my life and then it saved my wife. So every day is a blessing. There's treatment. save my life as well. And so many fellow veterans helped me get off opiates. Stop using a nerve stimulator I hadn't played to sleep for the first time in over 10 years. It absolutely changed my life for the better. I went through a lot of the programs that the veterans are going through and I always kind of felt like I was a victim coming out of the program. When I came out of this, I felt like I had gotten my life back. That was five years ago. Not too long ago, I was in physical therapy and I would get dry needling through it. That's when they take the needle, put it in the muscle jiggle it around. And I would always joke with my physical therapist, oh my gosh, this is going to be

the thing that fixes me. This is going to fix all of my problems. Everything's going to be better. This is going to be the thing that like fixes me. And I think people are seeking that from psychedelics. Is this the solution for a lot of people? Is this the thing that's going to fix them? I mean, I'm not seeking to be any sort of psychedelic pied piper, and clearly there's a huge placebo effect, like across the board, like with any sort of drug. I think, though, as I said, these veteran stories are very difficult to refute when they've tried every possible treatment option and found no relief. And then they've done this, and it has indeed given them relief. but, you know, for many other people, they don't necessarily find lasting relief. I interviewed this one lady for The Guardian a couple of years ago who has, you know, a serious form of anorexia.

And one MDMA trip, she said, had given her a 10-year remission, but then she's since relapsed. And although she regularly does psychedelic therapy, she's still suffering from anorexia, you know. So this isn't a panacea, but there's a lot we don't know. And actually, I think that psychedelics are kind of a, you know, portal into some sort of spirit realm. People report these visions of, like, entities sometimes, you know, seemingly demonic or with some sort of malevolent intent. And if you do kind of listen to the indigenous thought leaders, you know, about what they think all of that represents, it really does. boggle the mind. So I think that there's a lot, you know,

we can learn in the West from, you know, indigenous understandings of psychedelics, you know, to ensure, you know, we don't have a bad trip. If the Trump administration actually legalizes Ibegain, there may be more trips ahead.

May the Busby is a journalist covering drug policy. This episode was produced by Kelly Wessinger with an assist from Daniel Hewitt. It was edited by Miranda Kennedy, along with Jolie Myers, fact-checked by Gabriel Dunatav, and engineered by David Tadishore and Bridger Dunnigan. I'm John Glyn Hill, and this is Today Explained.