Today, Explained - Start the steal?

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

A partisan election board in Georgia has been trying to change the rules around voting and election certification. It's giving 2020. In the first episode of our battleground state series, we go to Georgia to learn how election guardrails will protect the vote. This episode was produced by Hady Mawajdeh, edited by Amina Al-Sadi, fact-checked by Laura Bullard and Victoria Chamberlin, engineered by Patrick Boyd and Rob Byers, and hosted by Noel King. Transcript at vox.com/today-explained-podcast Support Today, Explained by becoming a Vox Member today: http://www.vox.com/members A billboard sponsored by the Congressional Integrity Project in Atlanta. Photo by Derek White/Getty Images for Congressional Integrity Project. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The 2020 election was always going to be a weird one. Trump v. Biden, America v. COVID. It was a tight race, and Donald Trump's divisive presidency gave the Democratic Party a chance to flip some states that had been voting Republican for years. But the Trump campaign lied and said that the Democrats stole Arizona and Michigan and North Carolina and others. And soon came the threats to election workers.

We're going to f***ing hang you, traitor. I will take a bullet to your f***ing head if you f*** with my rights anymore. Maybe the most contentious fight was over Georgia. Donald Trump was caught on tape asking the Secretary of State to find him some votes. I think it's pretty clear that we won. And Rudy Giuliani engaged in so much defamation that he currently owes $148 million to two Georgia election workers.

Now it's 2024 and we're doing it all again. Are we ready? Coming up on Today Explained. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. Today Explained. Battleground States.

Georgia. I'm Noelle King. There are 42 days until the 2024 election. That's seven Mondays. And every Monday until then, we're going to look at one of the seven swing states. They could go either way, and they will decide the election. Can you name all seven? I'll tell you at the end if you can't. Today, we start with Georgia, the center of the 2020 stolen election myth, and with Sam.

I'm Sam Greenglass. I'm a politics reporter at WABE in Atlanta. Indeed you are. All right. So in 2020, Georgia becomes a crucial state for arguments over the results of the election. Remind us why. Georgia was decided by just under 12,000 votes in 2020. The margin between the president-elect and President Trump, a quarter of a percent. And this was also the first time that Democrats, Joe Biden, won Georgia's presidential electoral votes since 1992 when Bill Clinton won the state. In recent years, a lot of Democratic strategists have looked at Georgia, they've looked at the demographic changes in the state, and they said, boy, this is a state we feel like we could put in our category,

in our win category, but until now it hasn't ever materialized. And so this attracted a lot of pushback from activists in the Republican Party, allies of former President Trump, who began to call into question the results of the election. Look at that woman. Look at her taking those ballots out. Look at them scurrying around with the ballots. Nobody in the room, hiding around. They look like they're passing out dope. And Trump himself spurred on some of this conversation, even making this now infamous call to Georgia's Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, asking him to help find him votes. So what are we going to do here, folks? I only need 11,000 votes.

Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break. So ultimately, Brad Raffensperger declines. Georgia does go for Joe Biden. What's been happening in Georgia in the last four years? So a lot of this conversation about election integrity has not necessarily gone away. It's time to put away the artificial intelligence that counts our votes and adjusts the number, not by the truth, but rather by algorithm. Polls show that majorities of voters in Georgia believe that elections are free and fair, but there are pockets, especially within allies of former President Trump and within the Republican Party, who still push many of these unfounded conspiracy theories about widespread fraud in 2020 and in the years since.

We have some of the dirtiest voter rolls in the country, which facilitate dirty elections. I've seen things like no name accepted as a listed name on the registrar. Secretary of State doesn't seem to have an issue with that. In the early days of voting in Georgia, the voting was controlled by Kennesaw State University. They did an evaluation of the Dominion machines and their ID department deemed that they were all hackable and screwed up. And the result of that is that Republicans in the state legislature have passed a series of new election laws that have been designed to reassure some of these skeptics of election integrity that the votes are free and fair. But that has not necessarily worked. And some of these doubts still really exist among certain pockets of voters in Georgia.

Tell us about the state election board and what's going on there. The state election board is an appointed panel that until recently had been a pretty obscure state body. So this board is charged with making rules that basically help election officials interpret and carry out Georgia election law. Real policies, law changes, that's done by the state legislature, not this election board. So they're more of a body that helps, you know, interpret what is already being done by the state legislature. Their job is not to pass new laws. But in recent months, especially, they've began passing a series of rule changes that could take effect ahead of the 2024 election that have received a lot of pushback from Democrats.

Make no mistake, what is unfolding in Georgia is nothing less than a concerted effort to subvert democracy and move us backwards. From voting rights activists and even among some state Republican election officials, including Secretary Brad Raffensperger. Well, we want to make sure we don't have chaos. We want to make sure that we don't have any questions about chain of custody. And some of the procedures that they're proposing would actually reduce the security, the robustness of the chain of custody. So we don't think that they're helpful. The most controversial among these are related to the certification of election results.

And that has attracted a lot of blowback from legal experts, from election officials across the state. They're on fire. They're doing a great job. Three members, Janice Johnson, Rick Jeffries, and Janelle King, three people, are all pit bulls fighting for honesty, transparency, and victory. They're fighting. Okay, so they're clearly controversial. What are these rule changes that have been made over the past couple months? So we're talking about kind of a wide spectrum of changes to Georgia election rules. One of the most controversial buckets has to do with how election results are certified on election night and the days after. A couple of

rules would seemingly open the door for local election boards to vote against certifying election results if they can't access all of the election documents that they want to see, or if they simply have questions or spot a discrepancy that they can't make heads or tails of. So that's one category. Another category that's attracted a lot of controversy is related to hand counting of ballots on election night and the days after. This is not about actually tallying votes or the results of races, you know, what's on those ballots, but looking at the paper ballots and making sure the number in each ballot box matches up with the number of ballots that the machine scanned over the course of the night on election day. And if there's discrepancies there,

that might open the door for, you know, misinformation about the integrity of the election because we know that hand ballot counts are less reliable than a machine count. All right, so a bunch of rule changes had already been made. And then on Friday, this board met again, and they passed even more rule changes. What were those? The board on Friday was set to consider 11 more rule changes. Granted, this is now just a couple of weeks before early advance voting begins in Georgia. In the end, they passed six of them.

The most controversial is that measure related to hand counting ballots on election night. Some of the other measures that passed include allowing poll watchers access to more places on election night during the tabulation of votes, and some more anodyne things like daily posting of the number of people in each county who cast a ballot and publicly posting something called reconciliation reports to a county website. So things that, you know, election officials oppose because of the last minute nature of them, but are probably less controversial than these measures on certification or hand counting ballots. All right. So there's one side here that says these rule changes are necessary,

and there's another side that says these rule changes have gone too far. What is the purpose behind these rule changes according to each side? I think it depends on the rule at hand, but broadly, the proponents of these rules are saying that they are necessary to ensure a fair and free election to provide transparency and to assure folks who have doubted the integrity of elections that they are indeed free and fair and that they can trust the results. Now, Democrats and many election experts and voting rights activists say that no, these rules are intended to create chaos and confusion and possibly lay the groundwork for former President Trump and his allies to see doubts about the integrity

of the election result when inevitably local election officials stumble because of the last minute nature of the changes. Are all of these rule changes going to be implemented if there is this much opposition to them? Well, we know that the rule changes going to be implemented if there is this much opposition to them? Well, we know that the rule changes that have been passed are set to be implemented by October as voting is getting underway. However, there is very likely to be legal challenges. We already know that the certification rules are facing two lawsuits and a trial date has been scheduled for October 1st. I would expect that this measure on hand counting ballots on election night, that will also face legal challenges because Georgia's Republican Secretary of State and Republican Attorney General have

warned the board that they are very likely running afoul of Georgia law and exceeding their authority. And so I would be very surprised if we don't see those rules before a judge sometime this fall. How much of what we've been talking about is setting Georgia up for another 2020? Well, this is certainly something that Democrats and many election officials do worry about, that perhaps any opening to misinformation or confusion or delays kind of creates that space for more claims of widespread fraud or that there were problems with the election result. And as we know, in 2020, those claims are what eventually led to former President Trump and his allies saying that the election was stolen in states like Georgia and other battlegrounds around the country.

But election officials insist that they are going to do their level best to adapt to these changes. They are professionals and that people should have confidence in the results and the work of their poll workers. You know, I talked to an election official in Gwinnett County that's in Metro Atlanta who said the one thing that really reassures him and that should reassure other people is that the people who are working the polls are your neighbors. It's your local firefighter, your local teacher, the guy next door. And so people should have trust that the people who are running these elections have the community's best interest in mind and are doing

everything they can to make sure it goes off without a hitch. W.A.B.E. political reporter Sam Greenglass. All right. So Sam says authorities in Georgia are asking citizens to have faith in the poll workers and faith in the process. Coming up, an expert in election security on having faith in 2024. software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket. Ramp says they give finance teams unprecedented control and insight into company spend. With Ramp, you're able to issue cards to every employee with limits and restrictions and automate expense reporting so you can stop wasting time at the end of every month. And now you can get $250 when you join Ramp. You can go to ramp.com slash explained.

Ramp.com slash explained. R-A-M-P dot com slash explained. Cards issued by Sutton Bank. Member FDIC.IC terms and conditions apply. Bet MGM authorized gaming partner of the NBA has your back all season long from tip off to the final buzzer. You're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with BetMGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style,

there's something every NBA fan will love about BetMGM. Download the app today and discover why BetMGM is your basketball home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook worth a slam dunk and authorized gaming partner of the season. Raise your game to the next level this year with BetMGM, a sportsbook worth a slam dunk and authorized gaming partner of the NBA. BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. Must be 19 years of age or older to wager.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Support for today explained comes from Ramp. If you're a finance manager, you're probably

used to having to toggle between multiple disjointed tools just to keep track of everything. And sometimes that means there's limited visibility on business spend. I don't know what any of that means, but Ramp might be able to help. Ramp is a corporate card and spend management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your back pocket. Ramp's accounting software automatically collects receipts, categorizes your expenses in real time. You can say goodbye to manual expense reports. You will never have to chase down a receipt again. You can customize spending limits and restrictions so your employees are empowered to purchase what your business needs and you can have peace of mind. And now you can get $250 when you join Ramp. You go to ramp.com slash explained, ramp.com slash explained, ramp.com slash explained.

Cards are issued by Sutton Bank, a member of the FDIC, and terms and conditions do apply. Do you know about the USA? Do you know about Georgia? It's Today Explained. David Becker is the founder and executive director of the nonpartisan nonprofit Center for Election Innovation and Research. That organization works with election officials all over the country to support them. And it's going pretty well. What we've seen over the last several years is, though, we have been, we are running elections that are as secure, transparent, and verifiable as any elections ever in American history. The problem is that disinformation and lies have us thinking that elections are compromised, even though they are not, David says. And then there's Georgia.

So I think this is a place where the reality and the perception differ. That said, the state election board has some oversight responsibility for directing counties and the county boards on running elections, but they have no authority on actually certifying the vote. And it's important that we understand what certification of the vote is in every single state. Certification is just the non-discretionary ministerial act of giving an election legal effect. Ballots are counted.

These local jurisdictions, in many cases counties, certify that. That's essentially, I'm kind of doing the addition and passing it on. Then the state certifies. Then that goes to the electoral college. That's not to say that there aren't the opportunities to bring legitimate legal challenges if candidates or campaigns think that there has been a problem. But there's another path for that. to bring legitimate legal challenges if candidates or campaigns think that there has been a problem. But there's another path for that. And that path is through the courts where they have to bring evidence and they have to subject that evidence to scrutiny and cross-examination. And a court

has to hear it. It's not the place for political appointees like the Georgia State Board to decide they don't like the election. So the reality is that the state board's efforts are not going to change the fact that whoever wins Georgia's electoral votes will get those electoral votes. However, it could be used to fuel disinformation and special on it, I'll show you Georgia, and I'll show you Wisconsin, and I'll show you Pennsylvania, and I'll show you—we have so many facts and statistics. But you know what? That doesn't matter. What about after the votes are cast? What kind of protections are in place to make sure all of those votes are counted? Georgia has all paper ballots. They have audits of those paper ballots to ensure that the machines counted them accurately. And one of the things that Georgia does particularly well is they have early certification dates. This year it's on November 12th at 5 p.m. in Georgia.

So if there are any counties or any county board members who decide that they have the power to overturn the will of the people of Georgia and want to delay that effort, the state will be able to act quickly on November 12th to compel them to certify. We've seen this happen in other states. Two Republican county officials in Michigan's largest county, which includes Detroit, refused to certify the election results. Cochise County has become an outlier, the only county in Arizona not to certify its election results by today's deadline. The Otero County Commission is responsible for certifying election results, but the three commissioners have unanimously refused to do so

because they apparently don't trust the Dominion voting machines that were used. They've been dealt with swiftly and decisively on a bipartisan basis. Georgia is prepared to do the same. So they will have this resolved well in advance of the key deadline here, which in the presidential race is December 11th. December 11th is the date that the new Electoral Count Reform Act passed by Congress in 2022 requires that electors be what's called ascertained, which means that the governor has to sign a document saying the electors go to whoever

won a given state. If you want to go out and fight a good battle who you're for or against, that's the election process. You go out and work like the Dickens for whoever you support. But then when the vote's been cast, we want to make sure everyone can breathe easily and say it was done accurately, I lost fair and square, or I'm so happy that I won. And I am 100% confident that Georgia, and in fact all of the states, will be able to work past efforts to destabilize an election and ensure that their voters in their states, including those who voted for the losing candidate, aren't disenfranchised in the race for president and their electors are counted. It sounds like Georgia's doing a lot of things right. I wonder if we look at the country more broadly.

There are 50 states. Is there anything happening at a federal level to resolve some of these concerns? Or is it really on the states to figure this out for themselves? Well, Congress largely, through the Constitution, delegates responsibility running elections to the states. But that said, there are some things the federal government has done. And as I mentioned earlier, one of those key things that they've done specifically with regard to a presidential race is pass the Electoral Count Reform Act on a bipartisan basis in 2022. And that establishes much stronger guardrails around the democratic process with regard to

presidential elections. It basically makes the vice president a ceremonial role, so it's really in front of the chambers. It clarifies that the vice president's role on January 6th is purely ministerial, that their role is just counting the votes that have been there. It is not the opportunity to blow past the courts, to ignore what courts have said, to ignore what the voters have said, and decide that members of Congress don't like the outcome. The new law also increases the threshold for objecting to electors from a single Congress member or senator to one-fifth of each chamber,

and it includes an additional $75 million for election security in the future. The federal government has strengthened the protections around the election to ensure that the true winner of the election, as determined by the states and as resolved by the courts if necessary, does get the electoral votes and takes office on January 20th. What should voters be watching out for on Election Day and the day after Election Day this year? Not just in Georgia,

but around the country? Offer us some predictions, if you could. First, we have to understand we live in a very closely divided country. It shouldn't be a surprise to us if any given candidate wins, given how closely divided we are, and especially how passions are running high. We're going to see very high turnout again. We saw the highest turnout in American history in 2020. And that means we should expect on election day and election night that election officials are going to be working incredibly hard to answer the one question on all of our mind, which is who won. But we also should recognize that they are counting very complex ballots. In every jurisdiction in this country, there are dozens of races on those ballots, not just the presidential race,

not just Senate races in some states, not just congressional races, but state races, local races, county races, ballot measures. And so we should set expectations that we're not going to know who won the election on election night, because the race is going to be very narrow and because it takes some time, especially when margins are very narrow, to count all the ballots. Some states will have a better idea than others because they have processes in place to count those ballots very, very quickly thanks to laws passed on a bipartisan basis. But other states, in particular Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, where the legislatures led by Republicans have not passed laws that allow them, for instance, to pre-process mail

ballots and load them up in scanners so they can be reported quicker. They can't start that until election day. So it's going to take longer in those states, and that's the way the legislature decided it should be. And if the margin of victory is extremely narrow, it might take several days to get to the point where the media can call it. And that media call is unofficial, but it's what we often think of as the decisive call. So we should be patient. I think we should also expect that there's a very strong likelihood that a losing candidate might declare victory on election night and spread lies about the process, and we should ignore that. If you hear a candidate on election night claim victory before victory has been determined, you should know that that candidate thinks they lost because a candidate

who thinks they win has every incentive to support the legitimacy of the process. So watch what the candidates say on election night. The candidate who is tearing down the system, who is spreading lies about a process before the votes have even been finished counting, the candidate who is claiming that they should stop counting even though they've only partially counted, that's the candidate who thinks they lost. And it's going to be a very strong tell. Hopefully that will help stabilize things because there's going to be an effort perhaps by the losing candidate to try to incite anger and potentially violence in the post-election period.

David Becker, founder of the Nonpartisan Center for Election Research and Innovation. Do you know the seven swing states? They are Georgia, Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Carolina, and Pennsylvania. Next Monday, we'll bring you some reporting from PA on candidates Trump and Harris scrounging for every vote they can get and finding themselves in some pretty unusual places. Today's episode was produced by Hadi Mouagdi and edited by Amin El-Sadi. It was fact-checked by Laura Bullard and Victoria Chamberlain, and it was engineered by Rob Byers and Patrick Boyd. I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained.