Today, Explained - The Boomer politicians who won't retire

Episode Date: July 25, 2026

Democratic Congressman James Clyburn turned 86 years old this week. He has no plans to retire. This show was edited by Kasia Broussalian, fact checked by Esther Gim, mixed by Shannon Mahoney, video edited by Christopher Snyder, and hosted by Astead Herndon. Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.) announcing he is running for a 18th term. Tracy Glantz/The State/Tribune News Service via Getty Images. You can also watch this episode on ⁠⁠youtube.com/vox⁠⁠. Listen to Today, Explained ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: ⁠⁠vox.com/members⁠⁠. New Vox members get $20 off their membership right now. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Considering the southern death of Lindsey Graham and whatever's going on currently with Mitch McConnell, it got me thinking, just how old is Congress? Let's do some research, shall we? 80% of voters think that term limits should be required. I want to say oligarchy, but with old, like the oldigarchy? At the start of this congressional term, the median age for a U.S. senator was 64. And the median age for a member of the House was 57. Let's look up the oldest members of Congress.

Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton of Washington, D.C., Steny Hoyer, the Maryland congressman, he's retiring. Maxine Waters, who is running for re-election, is 87 years old. We're now in the third oldest U.S. Congress in all of history, according to a recent analysis from NBC News. But it's not like politics has ever been a young person's game. However, the problem is getting worse. there are 20 members of the House and Senate that are over 80 years old. Trump, after getting reelected, was the oldest president to take office. And of course, there was the whole Biden fiasco.

The COVID, excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with... The gerontocracy feels like a huge problem in American politics. So why won't the boomers retire? I asked 17-term congressman Jim Clyburn, that exact question. I gave serious considerations last year to not run again and made that very clear to quite a few friends. And I kept being asked, how do you feel? Clyburn, who turned 86 just this week, is running for re-election in South Carolina again. And I kept answering.

I feel fine. And they said, well, then why would you quit? this week on America, actually, Congressman Clyburn makes the case for experience and the establishment. Let's dig in. Drop everything. The McDonald's Creamy Parmesan and Bacon Quarter Pounder is back for a limited time. So juicy, so cheesy. This burger demands your full attention.

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Every moment count because there's no better time than now. Greygoose, make time wait. Sit responsibly. On this show, we like to think about American politics beyond the question of the day-to-day administration. And a big thing that comes up in that lens is the generational gap that have been exposed in a lot of areas in our politics. There is a universal desire for generational change that we hear all the time. And I don't have to remind you that it's a big reason why President Biden was forced to abandon his re-election bid in 2024. Now, the generational gaps in our politics have only become more important in the age of AI and fast-moving technology.

But it's a delicate issue, and you have to approach it carefully. So I wanted to start by asking you all, what's the best way to think about age in politics? This is Joshua from Centralia, Washington? I'm from California. My name is Lily Green, and I'm 31 years old. My name is Alexandra. Hi, this is Kara from Idaho. I'm 74.

I'm here with my annoying wife, Samantha Freeman. What do you do? So should we cap the age for holding office? We don't think there should be an age limit necessarily, just mental health tests. I do think term limits are more important than age limits. You don't want to be ages, right? Some old people are really sharp. Bray Sanders is popping off, and he's like, what, 2000?

At least. I'm so fed up with the fact that most of our lawmakers are so old. Yeah. 80 years old is probably the cap of being way too old with you in Congress. I'm still like 65 is a fair cutoff. We already have a little bit of an answer in some of the other aspects of public life. You can't be an air traffic controller past your 50s. You can't be a federal law enforcement officer past 57. You can't be an airline pilot past 65. An acknowledgement of our human biology

would suggest a maximum age requirement of 70 years for all offices. And there's one aspect of concern about cognitive decline in health. Yeah, you see people making the distinction between age and cognitive ability. But then also, how in or out of touch that person is and whether they can actually speak to their constituency. Anyone that still uses a printer consistently. I like a printer. Or can't do an Excel spreadsheet or even knows what Google Drive is shouldn't be present. That's all I got to say.

Bye. All right. It's one thing to ask voters. But I want to know what these older elected officials have to say for themselves. And what better person to talk to than Congressman Jim Clyburn, the longtime member of House Democratic leadership. Is this about experience or ego? Let's ask them. I just wanted to start by clarifying.

Is today your birthday? My goodness, you didn't look at your calendar this morning? I did, actually. That's why I knew that today was not just any day of the week. There's a little ashes today. You have to turn to the back and find out that this is one of the few international holidays. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Congressman Clyburn Day or is there another holiday, I'm forgetting.

Why do you still want to work? I mean, you have earned retirement. Why do you want to be in Congress at this point? Well, I think this country is teetering on the break. And I think that a lot of what's going on demands the attention of everybody and it demands the best of some of them. I know what my parents went through and some would think that what they went through we would never go through again. Well, the history says differently.

And those of us who know this history and those of us who know the system and those of us who had the energy to fight it, it better stay in this fight. I hear you. you. That seems to be a case for experience or expertise and the value of it, particularly in this moment. But as I'm sure you know, most Americans have lost faith in Congress's ability to deliver. So I want to ask a question that kind of combines the age and experience points. Like, can you tell me what you can do in the House in 2027 that someone who is 45 or someone who is younger or another generation can't do? Like, what do you think is the tangible benefit of the experience you're laying Well, you're talking about experiencing it's biblical.

The oldest call because they know the way the young because of their strength. And there must be an adequate application of both those things into the system. And so there is no one or the other. I always say that we all got roles to play. When you say one or the other, are you saying it's not just a new generation of Democrats and those with experience the party needs to? It needs both. It needs both.

Absolutely. Okay. One of the things I heard was House Democrat Marie Glucent-Camp-Perez, proposed an amendment calling for members of Congress to be evaluated for cognitive impairment. I wanted to know if that's something that you'd support, why or or not? I don't know. Those kind of food things. I don't know.

I think that needs to be applied to the White House as well. I guess what I'm saying, why are we dismissing it as foolish? Because the voters make that decision. Okay. You're saying if the voters vote you in, If you win an election, then you deserve to serve. Well, you go out before the voters. The voters, you don't declare yourself elected.

You run for the office. You expose yourself to voters. I'm 86 years old. I know people who are 66 years old with much less energy than I have. And no, none of the experience that I have. So I don't think that number ought to define how you conduct yourself. I guess I still want to go back to my previous question because you make the point that you feel like you are mentally sharp, you feel that you have a lot of energy. And I get your argument against something like an age cap because it would not take those things into consideration.

But what Representative Perez is proposing is something about a cognitive acuity. And theoretically, you know, even an 86-year-old would be able to pass that. What's your opposition to something like that? I just say I had the opposition to it. Okay. I have no opposition to it. Okay. So I guess I was asking you, would you support something like a cognitive test for members of Congress?

That's it. Yes. In concept, let me see what the legislation is. Okay, okay. One of the reasons I think this comes up so much is because of what happened with the Democratic Party in the last presidential cycle. You were one of the more important voices telling Americans that Joe Biden was fit to run again. When you saw that debate in 2024, did you stand by that judgment? Was that the right call?

Let me take you back about it. I never said that. Never said what? You asked me if I was supporting Joe Biden. I said, yes. I have no medical knowledge about his condition. Had none then and I have none now. And every time I was asked about that question, I would say, I'm not a doctor.

If he makes the decision to run again, I will support him. I guess I was asking a little bit. What was your personal reaction when you saw President Biden on that stage. Did you think that was someone who should be president or be running for re-election? You mean during the debate? During the debate. Yes, I came to the conclusion that something is wrong yet.

Okay. The question we have to ask ourselves, was that a condition or an episode? Now, now I'll know of a single person, young or old, who could not at one point says, I don't recall that name. I don't remember what I did with my cell phone. It's in your hand. These are the kinds of all of us have episodes. I had them.

I had one this morning. Would you forget? If I got your phone? I forgot my phone, too. I couldn't find my razor to shave. And so you're saying with Biden, it wasn't known if that was an isolated event or something larger. The last question I would ask on this, though, just to close the loop,

is do you think that advocating for him and realize, election, did the Democratic Party brand any damage in terms of credibility? Because there was a lot of Americans who thought that never should have happened. Well, that may be true. A lot of Americans didn't think he should have run in the first person, he beat Trump. And that's what got Trump so crazy. So you don't look back at that episode and think the party did itself any reputational damage by backing Biden's reelection? I don't think, why would you, the party backed him to run?

the party didn't back his re-election because it dropped out of the race. Uh-huh, uh-huh. I don't know if that distinction matters to most Americans. I hear you. Most Americans want to put their own interpretation on what happened. You lost the colleague this month, long time, South Carolina figure, Lindsay Graham. I heard about you all's relationship. How will you remember him?

What would you say is Lindsey Graham's legacy? Well, I want to know about what his legacy is. I'll let somebody else make that decision. I will say this, that we agreed on few things politically, but we had a great working relationship. He understood that I got elected. And as he said to me one time, I could not win in your district.

And you could not win in my district. But that doesn't mean that two of us cannot sit down and work together for South Carolina, which is what we did. I wonder, are those things harder to come by now? Like, you've seen Congress change over the years. And when we talk about the working relationship between you and Graham, is that just like more and more rare across the place?

Well, it seems that way for some people, but that's just how we do it in South Carolina. It does seem as if a generational political figure shaped in the kind of post-war era have stepped aside or passed away in recent years. I'm thinking in black politics we recently lost Reverend Jesse. Jackson earlier this year. And then that means a group of people who are further and further away from the civil rights movement. You mentioned how knowing the stories of your community, of your history, of your ancestors shaped your own politics.

I wanted to give you a chance to kind of speak to this directly. What does your generation have that you think generations like mine might be missing? What are we losing out on when we talk about the silent generation and boomers moving on? I think the first thing we have to understand is that all of us will never think alike. We are the victims of our experiences, and no two people will have the same experience. I stayed married to the same woman for 58 years. We had a lot of disagreements. We weren't raised the same way. And so we learned early that if you were going to have a successful marriage, we'd better figure out

how to adjust those each other's backgrounds and each other's experiences. I think that's a big difference in my generation, the most of us, and a few of the younger generation. They just feel you've got to think like me, you've got to act like me,

you've got to talk like me, or you cannot exist. That's foolishness. We're saying that maybe the upcoming generation is too morally rigid. I don't know about morally, but there's too rigid. He's saying you ain't sure about the morals, but they're reaching about something.

I mean, I do think this manifests itself in substantive issues. And so I would ask about the substance. You know, the Congressional Black Caucus has been one of the Democratic establishment staunches allies. And we're seeing some generational changes even within that group. One big break between the kind of older generation and the younger generation is around specifically the issue of corporate pact money. voters overwhelmingly opposed corporate and special interest funding. But the Black Caucus has long been corporate aligned. You yourself has been one of the biggest receivers of farmer money.

But 85% of American support legislation that will end dark money. Is the CBC on the wrong side of this? No. You know as well as I do that no white person in this country came out of slavery. I'm not that far removed from it. I know how my parents grew up. They didn't grow up with wealth. They couldn't pass that wealth on to their children

because they never had it. I serve with people here who are multimillionaires. And if they decide I'm not going to take any kind of corporate-packed money because my mom and daddy can write the check, so we are supposed to stay out of the politics because we don't have the family wealth to support it

or do we sit down and find common ground and let me tell you, you mentioned farmer I would challenge you to find me one single vote I have ever cast that farmer supported in my

constituents didn't. You ain't going to find it. So you might ask. Why do I get so much support from pharma? Because I am the biggest proponent of medical research that you're going to find here. And then about voting with big farmer is about voting for the future health of people with heart disease, diabetes, cystic fibrosis. all these things that kill people that I'm trying to find Q for. And that's all it is.

Yeah, you're saying there's no daylight between your constituents and those votes who are taking. But I do want to go back to your earlier point because it is important to say, and I want to acknowledge that black candidates often do not come from the same amounts of personal wealth. Not often. Yeah, yeah, that a lot of other members of Congress have.

I think that's an important true point. The ability to raise money is often more difficult. But, I mean, theoretically, you know, the CBC or others could advocate for public election, public funding of elections. They could advocate for small dollar numbers and people raising money through that. Like, and so I'm just saying, like, aren't there other avenues that they could take that will put them more aligned with a Democratic base that's increasingly against corporate money? We do. Okay.

All right. I hear you. You're like, we already do that stuff, period. Absolutely do it. Support for this show comes from Quince. It's summertime and the living is easy, or at least so they say. But that's especially true if you've got relaxed, breathable clothes that you can put on for that great summer occasion. And for those, look no further than Quince.

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I want to ask you about AI. There's so much that it's changing in terms of the future of work and our economy. Do you use AI? Have you ever used an LLM? No, somebody was telling me I ought to, but I never have. No chat GPT, no clawed for you. Believe it or not, I didn't know what that was until about a week ago. Which one?

Chat GPT or whatever it is. You didn't know until a week ago. Wow, I mean, I'm jealous. You've got yourself in the bubble. That may sound strange to you. I didn't know what that was. Okay, have you been to a data center or anything like that? No.

No? Okay. I guess I'm wondering, like, with the speed of technological changes right now, with how much people are anxious about the ways AI and work might change because of it, how do you effectively legislate as a member who is distant from some of those technological shifts that are affecting folks' lives right now? I have a great staff. You know, I wish I could know everything.

I don't know everything. And I'm going to spend my time trying to learn everything. What I spend my time doing is trying to surround myself with people who do know stuff. I know how to legislate. I know how to build relationships. And I hire people to bring knowledge into the game that I can put to practice.

One of the things we've been tracking since the last election is how the more moderate lane of Democrats is trying to find its electoral footing after Trump's 20 and 2024. You weighed in in the New York City mayor's race in the 2025 election supporting Andrew Cuomo, even though in

2021 you are among those that said he should resign. I haven't seen you since that kind of switch. I wonder to know how did you went from saying he should resign to endorsing him last year? For two different things. The fact still remains that when Mandami won the primary, I endorsed his election thereby saying,

or you go endorse him? I made it very clear. And quite frankly, he made a phone call to me and did thank me for my endorsement. And that's why you have primaries. We say when Zora Mamdani won the Democratic nomination, you supported him, he called and thanked you for your support. Yes.

saying that's distinct from your support of Cuomo in the primary. I guess I'm just asking, though, if Cuomo was kind of morally incompatible with office in 2021, why isn't that thing still true in 2025? Well, I'll just ask you this. I've worked with Cuomo when he was Secretary of Hood. He was Secretary of Hood. South Carolina was a few states in the state that got an empowerment zone. Ten million dollars a year for 10 years. Let's just. is one of the things that I got from him. Alvin Brown, who became mayor of Jacksonville, Florida, and still in my orbit, was on his staff.

He had worked for Vice President Gore. Alvin Brown is a native of Beaufort, South Carolina. I've known him pretty much all of his life. So I'm supposed to throw away all these relationships for somebody I never saw before, never heard of before, and he said, I should be supporting this person I know nothing about against this person I've been working with for 40 years. Well, I guess I'm not...

Why don't they just get off of that? Yeah, I guess I'm not saying that, but theoretically... Is that what you're saying? No, theoretically, you could not say anything at all. I mean, this isn't happening in South Carolina. You know, so I'm saying, I guess my question was why weigh in in the first place, considering the claim, the statement that you had already said about Cuomo in 2021. I give you my reasons.

Okay. And why I weighed in. and why I will weigh in again. I have weighed in on the Senate race up in Michigan. Yeah, I want to ask about that too. I have been working with Haley Stevens ever since she's been in the Congress. We co-chair a task force

dealing with manufacturing. She is the person. That's my go-to person when it comes to working with Scout Motors who just came to Columbia, South Carolina, and go bill. Volkswagen going to hire 6,000 people.

So it's that working relationship. I can walk that plant from my house. And she has been to go to, so I'm supposed to say to her, she's running for the Senate, oh, this guy that you run it against is somebody I heard about, somebody I have never seen,

somebody as far as I was concerned, he's never made one single contribution to the constituents up there. And when I talked to African Americans up in Detroit, they all tell me how great Haley Stevens is, but you people who want to talk about some notion you got

saying I should stay out of the race. No. So what are you saying? I guess I was asking, should we think of these endorsements, whether it's Cuomo in 2025 or Haley Stevens right now as endorsements because of your advocacy

for those candidates, and your relationship with them, or endorsements that are about stopping their opponent, Mamdani in New York City or El Sajad in Michigan? I don't try to stop anybody. Okay. If you told me you were running for office, I would say, good luck to you.

I would stop myself. All right, let me ask then about those endorsements. When something like Mamdani wins in New York City, he's now, you know, favorability would tell you, one of the most popular Democrats in the country. As someone who endorsed on the other side in that primary, Do you think after that happens, like, does that change your calculus? Does that make you think, oh, there's something going on among the base that maybe I should be aware of?

Or even his surprising support from some black communities in New York City? Does that tell you, hey, maybe these are people are open to a different type of politics than I initially expected. How do you intake what has happened since the endorsement? Well, I don't know paying attention to that. I got 90%. I just ran for re-elections and they got 90%. So how do you interpret that? You're saying your concern is really to your constituents, period.

My concern is making this country's greatness accessible and affordable for all. That's what I'm concerned about. Let me just end on these couple questions. Democrats largely have a historically negative view of their own party after the last election. Why do you think that is? I don't think that's historical. I guess I'm saying polling would tell you that Democrats' view of their own party is reaching lower numbers than ever.

That's why I used to word is stork. And I'm saying, why do we think that is? Because we've allowed you all to brand us. It's media branding? Yes. Isn't that like a convenient way than say it's not the politicians? You can call it convenient if you want to,

but I talk to people all over this country. I just left Texas, and I'm headed to Michigan, and I know when people tell me what their problems are and I answer their problems, Well, I never thought about it like that before. I said, well, I was exactly what the facts are.

Let me ask you a different way. Is it your opinion that Democratic Party leadership is not the main cause of the reason why voters trust their individual leaders less? You're saying that is a media problem, not necessarily the actions of Democratic Party leadership. That's what you're saying. Well, I would say the whole thing is media problem. I think the whole thing is it's like. When I was growing up, elderly people used to tell me all the time, because you can imagine at the time I was growing up, you would call a lot of things. The N-word was thrown around as if it was your second name.

And people used to tell us all the time, now, son, don't worry about what people called you. It's what you answer to. That's the issue. And so I advise young people even today, don't get all exercise over what people call you, especially when they're doing it on the internet and are faceless. I'm not react to that stuff because I have no idea who's putting them up to it. I do know this. a lot of black people who are here supporting Trump,

you cannot tell me that his policies are good for black Americans. Are they? So why are black people supporting them? It might be because the Democratic Party hasn't delivered. Like, it might be because the leers of investment in neoliberal democratic politics has not changed their communities, right? Like, couldn't they be voting not just for Republicans but against Democrats? Well, don't vote at all.

Isn't that what you said? I guess I wanted to say that I feel like when we talk to a lot of the Democratic base, we hear a desire for accountability from their own leadership. A leadership they feel like has not delivered. A leadership they feel like made some political stumbles for Donald Trump to return. I guess I was asking, do you share any of that and feel that? No. And you're saying no.

I'm saying no. I'm saying that's what you think. They don't tell me that. They don't tell you that? Why are my constituents telling you stuff they won't tell me? I guess I find it a little hard to believe that you haven't heard a Democrat say they're mad at their own party leadership right now. That feels pervasive. You know, like, we just saw Adriano Espionoos in New York.

We just saw the incumbent win in Colorado. You have a Democratic Socialist line candidate leading in the Wisconsin governor's primary. Those things feel like an evidence of a Democratic Party base who is searching for something different. Do you think that's true? Well, it's all been to why. I mean, where are they getting their messages from? I just think that a lot of it has to do with whoever the nominee is or whoever the candidate is and whether or not they do a good job of campaigning.

You're saying it's up to the individual candidates. Absolutely. You know, the black vote, particularly in the South, has often sided with establishment candidates in presidential primary elections. Clinton over Sanders in 2016, Biden and the key role you played in his ability to win the nomination in 2020. I guess I wanted to ask a semi-provocative question, which is that has the Democratic Party paid that loyalty back? When we think about the communities that I think we both care about,

have they been served by the deference to mainstream democratic politics that they have given. Well, let's look at what do we get out of our support for Biden? Mm-hmm. What do we get out of our support for Obama? Mm-hmm. well, just look at their agenda. You don't think that the Obama offered a big enough payback. You don't think that Biden with his rescue plan, this infrastructure bill.

What lessons did you take from the Biden administration? Like political lessons? Like, was there any political lesson you think there is to take from an administration whose central goal was to stop Donald Trump's return? And here we are. And he stopped it. I mean, you stopped it and enabled, I think some would argue. Well, when the white vote turned out 71% two years ago and the black vote turned out 59%.

You tell me whose fault that is. I guess I... 59% of African Americans went to the polls two years ago. It's tough. For me personally, to blame black voters for the last election more than it is to blame President Joe Biden. That's the fact. It wasn't Joe Biden on the ticket.

It was Kamala Harris on the ticket. For 107 days after he decided to look on the ticket. I guess I just wanted to see if there was a clear political lesson you took from that moment and whether you think you think something applies in this kind of larger Democratic rethink after. But I hear you. You're saying that you think it was a media problem. It was a branding problem. It was a candidate problem?

I didn't say that. The media had nothing to do with that 59%. If that 59% had been 69% she would have won. I guess, so is the argument that black people let Kamala Harris down? Oh, in many instances, absolutely. If you don't show up the vote, what are you doing? Is there no valid reason why black voters could not have felt heard by the last Democratic election? Is there no valid reason that they would have.

There might be. I like to know what it is. Okay. Last question I would have is a one to look forward. In the spirit of generational change, tell us about the rest of the Congress. Who's the next Jim Clyburn? Who's someone who we should be thinking about in terms of being a link to black political communities and making the type of stuff happen that you've been proud to make happen for a while?

There are a lot of them. Names. Please? Oh, I'm not going to be naming people. No. I appreciate your time. I appreciate you joining us. Thank you very much.

And believe it or not, I love this kind of exchange. I feel it, you know. You keep me sharp. You know, in a lot of ways. That conversation made me a little sad. I got to be honest. It's not like I don't understand where Clyde Byrne is coming from. I mean, this is someone who was born in 1940 in segregated South Carolina

and went on to become one of the highest-ranking black elected officials in congressional history. I mean, this is someone who's invested their life in the Democratic Party. And I get that. But I also think that his refusal to see any need for course correction is part of the reason why people are so upset with party leadership in the first place. You know, in a lot of ways, it reminded me of a conversation you might have with an older family member who just won't budge, no matter the evidence in front of them. But there's no reason that experience has to come at the cost. of accountability. And that's frankly what I didn't hear in that conversation. Did the voters fail the Democratic Party? Or is it the other way around? America actually will be in your feeds

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