Today, Explained - The Epstein Files are still a "cover-up"

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

The Trump administration was ordered to release all the Epstein Files. They didn’t. Lawmakers say they are breaking the law. This episode was produced by Danielle Hewitt with help from Avishay Artsy, edited by Amina Al-Sadi, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by David Tatasciore and Patrick Boyd, and hosted by Noel King. Bill Clinton and Jeffrey Epstein in one of the images released Friday by the State Department. Photo by The US Justice Department / Handout /Anadolu via Getty Images. Listen to Today, Explained ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. New Vox members get $20 off their membership right now. Transcript at ⁠vox.com/today-explained-podcast.⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Congress voted to force the release of the Epstein files in mid-November because people wanted answers. How did Jeffrey Epstein get his money? Who else was involved in his crimes? But when the files were released on Friday, there were no real answers. Now lawmakers from both parties say President Trump's Justice Department is covering things up. This is absolutely breaking the law. I mean, they have not... So my suggestion would be give up all the information, release it. Well, I think there needs to be a full. full and complete explanation and then a full and complete investigation as to why the

document production has fallen short of what the law clearly required. Marjorie Taylor Green, a Republican, wrote, release all the files. It's literally the law. And Chuck Schumer, a Democrat, is urging the Senate to sue the Department of Justice. Coming up on today, explained the latest outrage over the Epstein files. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them, in fact. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads.

Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. At Criminal, we've made it a tradition every December to dedicate an episode entirely to animals who are really going for it. And Tony, what happened when you pulled over? Nothing out of the ordinary until I saw the cat on the back of the roof behind the luggage carrier. Listen to our fifth annual animals episode on Criminal, wherever you get your podcasts. This is Today Explained.

Haley Fuchs, I'm a reporter for Politico covering Congress. How much time did you spend since Friday reading the Hepstein files? Certainly there was a lot of time spent scouring through these materials and a large team at Politico. who were going through them. Okay, so at this point, is it fair to say that the Epstein files have been released? Definitely not. So the DOJ said they released a smaller tranche of materials on Friday and on Saturday, and they were going to continue to release materials. What's interesting is that the bill that compelled the release of these materials that Congress passed last month actually required them to release the materials by Friday. So a lot of lawmakers are saying that

DOJ is breaking the law by not fully releasing the files. They sent a six-page memo to Congress and said they cited pre-existing laws as reasons that they weren't going to follow our law. For instance, our law requires them to release information regardless of embarrassment. But they are trying to say that a previous law prevails when it doesn't. If you say the files weren't fully released, what did you spend all weekend looking at? What did we get? So we got a lot of material.

from DOJ. We got some photos, we got some documents, but there really wasn't much in the way of new information in these files. The expectation was that DOJ would answer a lot of questions in its release of the files. People want to know how Epstein amassed his fortune. They want to know who else was involved in his crimes. And really, in these files, we didn't find out really anything about any of those questions. We mostly saw material that had already been public. For the first time, the Epstein files made public. The Justice Department posting hundreds of thousands of items online related to the DOJ's criminal investigations of the late sex offender. Thousands of photographs, some graphic and heavily redacted. Bill Clinton seems swimming

at a pool with Galane Maxwell and another woman with her face redacted. Clinton with another unknown woman on his lap. One of the new files confirms that Epstein was reported to authorities almost 30 years ago. There is one thing that drew a lot of attention over the weekend, and that is some images appear to actually disappear from the DOJ website. Deputy Turner General Todd Blanche claims that that was because DOJ was concerned that victims' identities were not properly redacted. When we hear concerns, whether it's photographs of women that we do not believe are

victims or we didn't have information to show that they were victims, But we learned that there are concerns. Of course, we're taking that photograph down, and we're going to address it. If we need to redact faces or other information, we will. At least one of those photos included an image of Donald Trump. Huh. And DOJ has rejected the idea that they're trying to protect Trump

in the release of these files. And that image of Trump has since been re-added back to the website. The absurdity of us pulling down a photo, a single photo, because President Trump was in it, it's laughable. And the fact that everybody's trying to act like that's the case is a reflection of their true motivation, but the reality is. So we remember that it was Congress that compelled the administration to release these files, to give us what we've got so far.

How did lawmakers react to what was released? Lawmakers are really upset. They released one document from a New York. York grand jury of 119 pages, totally blacked out. They've not shown any deference or respect for the victims at all, for the survivors of this nightmare. And it's all about covering up things that, for whatever reason, Donald Trump doesn't want to go public. They think that DOJ is not complying with the law and not fully releasing the materials by the

deadline that Congress has set. We actually saw two lawmakers, one Republican and one Democrat, Thomas Massey of Kentucky, and Rokane of California threatened to start impeachment proceedings for Pam Bondi and to file content charges. The quickest way, and I think most expeditious way, to get justice for these victims is to bring inherent contempt against Pam Bondi. Thomas Massey and are exploring all options. It can be the impeachment of people at justice, inherit contempt, or referring for prosecution, those who are obstructing justice. Their threat to impeach Pam Bondi, what is that grounded in? Are they saying she didn't give us what Congress ordered her to give us? Yes, they are, they're saying that DOJ is not complying

with the law. DOJ maintains that it would be impossible for them to truly comply with the law and release all the information on time. But members of Congress are saying you're not doing what the law says he were supposed to do. As part of the Epstein Files' release, we were supposed to get grand jury documents that relate to Gillesne Maxwell. Did we learn anything new about her? We really also didn't learn much new about her. DOJ did ask judges to be able to release the grand jury materials publicly, and they did release those materials, but they were also heavily redacted. I think Gilein Maxwell's request for some kind of reprieve from her sentence is really a wildcard in this saga. You never really know

with Trump what he's going to do. He has said that he has not ruled out pardoning her. The Supreme Court is back in session. They rejected today an appeal by Gilein Maxwell to overturn her conviction. That means her only chance at getting out of prison is a pardon from you. Is that something you're open to- Who are we talking about? You know, I haven't heard the name in so long. I can say this, that, I'd have to take a look at it. I would have to take a look. And so I'm not sure if we saw information in this trunch of materials that could give us

any kind of signals of what's going to happen, in part because Trump is just a unpredictable character in this saga. Do you think the objective has become muddled? I mean, it's worth asking, like, why do we want to see them? And you mentioned people being held accountable. And then there is the politics of all of this. both parties are trying to sort of use this to their advantage. Do you think there is a clear objective at this point? I think this really tragic saga of a powerful man who was able to use

his power to abuse women for years has really morphed into a kind of political firestorm and flashpoint. We have Democrats trying to stoke division among the president's base and really use this issue to kind of pare back support for Trump. And on the flip side of that, we see Republicans acting defensively. We know that Trump has ordered his attorney general, Pam Bondi, to investigate Democrats with ties to Epstein. And so we really see this kind of turning to a political back and forth around a really tragic case of abuse. You've been covering this story for a long time. And when Congress said it was going to compel the release of these files, it was a very, very big deal.

You also know that there is a lot of theorizing and conspiracy theorizing around the Epstein files. Do you think there is any information that could be released that would make people feel like this is enough? We know all that we are ever going to know. I don't know that the American public is ever going to be fully satisfied with the information that is provided in this case. I think that people want to see the people who helped Epstein or potentially were involved in his crimes held accountable. And it's unclear if we are ever going to see that. I think for now, Democrats really want to see DOJ fully release the files, which is something that they have not done and theoretically could do. Haley Fuchs is a reporter for Politico.

Coming up, Gielane Maxwell, the author of a book on what we now know about Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice. Support for today's show comes from Quince. We've all handed someone a gift and received a force, thank you. I love it.

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This is Today Explained. I'm Noelle King with Barry Levine. Barry is an investigative journalist who wrote a book called The Spider Inside the Criminal Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Gilein Maxwell. Barry, tell me about Maxwell's early years. Well, Gailene grew up in England in a mansion with 50 or 60 rooms. Her father, of course, was Robert Maxwell, the famous Fleet Street media tycoon. One man and the company he founded has done more than any other to heart.

to harness the communications revolution. The man is Robert Maxwell. The company is Maxwell Communication Corporation. I certainly would hope to make a small contribution with the help of these newspapers, if I become proprietor, to halting the retreat of Great Britain, which has gone on for so long

that the natives have forgotten that they're going backwards. She was the youngest She was the youngest of their nine children. It was a very strange upbringing in the sense that her father was extremely explosive and he demanded a great deal of his children. Gilae's mother, Elizabeth, later in her autobiography, said that her husband, Robert, would fly into these rages and subject to children to humiliation and harsh treatment,

including corporal punishment. So she grew up privy to a life of obscene luxury. However, it was a very difficult life growing up under her father. Did she express resentment of him? Did she dislike the pressure that was put on her? No, no. In fact, she embraced that. She was daddy's little girl in all that sense.

And not only were they close as she was growing up, but he also wanted to groom her. For the family business, when Robert Maxwell acquired Macmillan Publishing in 1988, along with the New York Daily News, the person that he brought with him from England was his daughter, Gilein. She was well-known, had a tremendous rolodex of contacts, of the rich and famous, and so Robert Maxwell wanted to tap into that. And then, of course, the tragedy hit when her father and his sons, Kevin and Ian, had a battle the Bank of England, were defaulting on close to $75 million in loans.

The latest revelations surrounding the Maxwell Empire are probably the most damaging yet. The resignation last night of Kevin and Dean Maxwell from the Board of Mirror Group newspapers signaled the start of a huge inquiry into allegations that Robert Maxwell used some 300 million and pounds from the Mirror Pension Fund to prop up some of his other troubled companies. He was on a yacht off the coast of the Canary Islands, his yacht, which was named after Gilae, the lady Gilein, and he was seen on the deck early that morning, and then he had fallen overboard. His body was found 12 hours later in the Atlantic Ocean by Spanish fishermen. An autopsy, interestingly revealed that there were no signs of

play. The people around the Maxwell family believed it to be a suicide. I also want to take this opportunity to thank all the many hundreds of people who have sent messages of support to us at this very, very sad time. Now, Gielaine didn't want to believe that. She did not want to believe that her father would take his life. So she said this was a result of a dark conspiracy involving Mossad renegades and Sicilian contract killers who were responsible for her father's death. Of course, this was Gilein's viewpoint. She didn't want to believe her father would take his own life. And so this was the conclusion. How did Gilein Maxwell and Jailene, Maxwell, and Jeffrey Epstein meet?

Geelaine and Jeffrey Epstein never specifically cited where they in fact met. It was very mysterious how the two of them came together at that time. And then, of course, they show up together at a fashion show in Paris in 1992. You have to remember at the time that Geelaine was really not herself. She was extremely distraught after her father's death. people who I interviewed from my book said she was constantly crying. She was constantly breaking down. She was really not in any type of good graces. She moved into a small New York apartment, really just kind of wondering what her future was going to be. And then all of a sudden,

she's with Jeffrey Epstein, and she is spending time at his mansion, Count House mansion, on the Upper East Side. Jeffrey Epstein was able to provide this type of super wealthy lifestyle that she had become accustomed to. How did Gleine Maxwell become part of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse? Well, about two years into their relationship, Jeffrey Epstein invited Gleine Maxwell to travel with him to Northern Michigan in the same. spring of 1994. There was a music camp there called the Interlotion School. Jeffrey Epstein had studied there as a young student from Brooklyn, New York. After he made his money, the school erected a Jeffrey Epstein scholarship lodge in his honor because Jeffrey Epstein gave the

music school financial gifts. So Gilae Maxwell goes with Jeffrey in 1994 to this music school. And Jeffrey Epstein met a 13-year-old girl there who was identified in court documents as a Jane Doe. And Jeffrey Epstein approached this girl and said, you have talent. I would like to bring you to Palm Beach, Florida, where I live. and I want to provide for you private voice lessons. And myself and Gilein, we will take care of you. We will put you up in a nice place to live. They met the girl's mother and invited the girl's mother to their Palm Beach estate. And Glein played the role of Jeffrey Epstein's love interest,

really legitimizing the deal for the mother, seeming that this was a couple that was going to take care of my daughter. And it was a, you know, a teenager's dream to hang out in a mansion be lavished with clothing and gifts. But then it went to the dark side. Geelaine was instructed by Jeffrey Epstein to groom this 13-year-old girl into learning about sexual positions, this was to me the rubber hitting the road in the sense that Elaine Maxwell was now becoming a co-conspirator to Jeffrey Epstein and basically feeding this young child to the wolf.

So the story of this 13-year-old girl is one in which Jeffrey Epstein spots this kid, decides, I want her. And then Gielane Maxwell helps him groom and abuse this child. How does her role in the abuse evolve? When they returned to Palm Beach, Gilae Maxwell was instructed by Jeffrey Epstein to begin finding other girls. And this, of course, began the process of their sex trafficking.

Gleine Maxwell would recruit girls from the local schools, from local parks. As alleged, Maxwell and Epstein had a method. Typically, they would befriend these young girls by asking them questions about their lives, pretending to be taking an interest in them. They would take them to the movies and treat them to shopping trips. She would have Jeffrey Epstein's driver, drive around.

She would spot a girl. She would say, would you like make a couple hundred dollars giving my friend a massage? Of course, that was code for the sexual abuse that would take place. And then they would pay these girls, $200, $300. And the girls were asked to recruit other girls that they knew. Maxwell enticed minor girls, got them to trust her, then delivered them into the trap that she and Epstein had set for them. She pretended to be a woman they could trust all the while she was setting them up to be sexually abused by Epstein and in some cases by Maxwell herself. Geelaine was in charge of overseeing this entire operation.

She would present herself as this big sister, even a motherly type of individual to welcome these young girls. It boggles the mind why she would do this, why she would destroy the childhoods of these minors. Gilane Maxwell, of course, like Jeffrey Epstein, ended up in prison. Where is she now? And what is she doing now, Barry? Well, Geelaine has been moved to a minimum security dorm-like facility in Texas from the federal facility lockup that she was in Florida. And this had to do with the fawning interview that she gave recently to Todd Blanche, that she had, She never witnessed any wrongdoing involving Donald Trump while he was friends with Jeffrey Epstein, that he didn't know anything about any of this. I never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way. The president was never inappropriate with anybody.

In the times that I was with him, he was a gentleman in all respects. Elaine, as a reward, I believe, was moved to this minimum security facility. She's working on asking for clemency from the president, and that's where she is right now. Do you think there is a possibility that she will get a pardon, that she will get out? Donald Trump knew Gilae Maxwell going back to the late 1980s. I don't think it's far-fetched that Donald Trump could do this. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to have to take a look at it. I have to ask DOJ.

I didn't know they rejected it. I didn't know she was even asking for it, frankly. It would be to the absolute horror of the Epstein and Maxwell survivors for Galane to be pardoned. I think it would be for the women now who interacted with Maxwell, who were sexually abused by her. I think that this would cause traumas for these women today if Elaine Maxwell was parted. And she belongs behind bars for the remainder of her sentence. Barry Levine is an investigative journalist and the author of her. of The Spider.

Danielle Hewitt produced today's show with help from Avshai Artsy. Amina El Sadi edited, Laura Bullard and Jolie Myers Check the Facts, and Patrick Boyd and David Tadishore engineered. I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained. Thank you.