Today, Explained - The fatwa against Salman Rushdie

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

Was never about Salman Rushdie. Journalist Robin Wright explains. This episode was produced by Avishay Artsy, fact-checked by Laura Bullard with help from Hady Mawajdeh and Victoria Dominguez, engineered by Paul Robert Mounsey, and edited by Sean Rameswaram, who also hosted. Transcript at vox.com/todayexplained  Support Today, Explained by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On Friday, a septuagenarian novelist got up to speak in front of a bunch of septuagenarians in New York like he had many times before. There was at least one 24-year-old in the crowd, which wasn't cause for alarm until it was. Renowned author Salman Rushdie was stabbed multiple times at a speaking engagement in western New York State on Friday. It's a sad chapter in the life of the outspoken writer, author of the controversial novel, The Satanic Verses. No one saw this brutal attack coming, even though for more than 30 years, Iran has had this fatwa declared against Salman Rushdie. But it turns out that 30-year fatwa

was never really about Rushdie or his writing at all. It really was a tragic, historic coincidence. It might not have happened if the book had come out at another time. That's incoming on Today Explained. NFL season, get in on all the hard-hitting action with FanDuel, North America's number one sportsbook. You can bet on anything from money lines to spreads and player props, or combine your bets in a same-game parlay for a shot at an even bigger payout. Plus, with super-simple live betting, lightning-fast bet settlement, and instant withdrawals, FanDuel makes betting on the NFL easier than ever before.

So make the most of this football season and download FanDuel today. 19-plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Today Explained, Sean Rahm is from here with Robin Wright, who knows a lot about Iran. Oh, I've been going to Iran since 1973, almost every year. I covered the monarchy and I covered the revolution and the Iran-Iraq war. I go back a really long way and I've written eight books about Iran. She's also a contributing writer for The New Yorker. I asked her how she reacted when she saw the news on Friday that Salman Rushdie had been repeatedly stabbed at a speaking event in New York. I think everyone in the literary world, foreign policy worlds, were absolutely flabbergasted.

There'd been a widespread assumption that the fatwa had been settled. It was also an attack that played out at the Chautauqua Institution, which is arguably the most idyllic corner of America. I have spoken on that same Chautauqua stage, the amphitheater, several times. And thousands of people come to hear discussions of serious issues of our times. And Rushdie was talking about freedom of expression. It had a big audience and that a young man could breach security, run onto the stage. Everything about it was just shocking. Robin's going to tell us how we got to this shocking moment, how Salman Rushdie was stabbed

a few days ago, and how his stabbing could actually influence American foreign policy. Salman Rushdie was born in Mumbai. He was educated in Britain. He started writing and published books that instantly won wide attention. My favorite is Midnight's Children, which is about the independence of India. And his fourth book was the one that created the great controversy. It was called The Satanic Verses. It seems to me completely legitimate that there should be dissent from orthodoxy, not just about Islam, but about anything. There were passages in this book that included dreamlike satirical passages that indicated human weaknesses of the prophet and questioned his credibility as a messenger from God. I think it seems to be very, one of the things that a writer can do is to say,

here is the way in which you're told you're supposed to look at the world. But actually there are also some other ways. The Satanic Verses is actually a difficult book. It's not quite as gripping a read as Midnight's Children. I read it several times and never made it all the way through. But for Muslims, it was considered blasphemous. And so that generated, in October 1988, protests. And governments like India's banned the book altogether.

The Iranians didn't do anything for six months. But it wasn't until there were attacks in Pakistan in February 1989 that Ayatollah Khomeini, the revolutionary leader in Iran, began to exploit the outcry in the wider Muslim world and called on all Muslims to kill Rushdie as well as any publishers and any translators of his book anywhere in the world. So do we know if the Ayatollah ever read the satanic verses? Ayatollah Khomeini's son Ahmed once told me that his father had never read the satanic verses? Ayatollah Khomeini's son, Ahmed, once told me that his father had never read the satanic verses and even implied that it would have been an insult to suggest that he should read the satanic verses. By word of mouth, a fact was put out there,

kind of fake news, and people jumped on it. And Khomeini issued the fatwa to draw attention away from problems at home. The fatwa was totally a political and historical coincidence. The publication of the book in October 1988 intersected with a growing political problem in Iran as it came out of an eight-year war with Iraq, as it faced open divisions within the clergy about their role in power and whether they had failed during the first decade. Iran at the time faced a sanctioning of basic foodstuffs and fuel. There was a lot of discontent at home, and Khomeini wanted to use this fatwa as a way to refocus attention on other issues when his own government faced serious political and

sometimes existential challenges. So it really was a tragic, historic coincidence. It might not have happened if the book had come out at another time. Goddard! Job! You got a f***ing fatwa! I got a fatwa! You got a fatwa! No! The word fatwa is thrown around a lot.

I think there was a whole season of Curb Your Enthusiasm built around how much Larry David liked saying it. I understand you have a new project, something you're working on. Yes, yes. I've written a musical for Broadway. It's called Fatwa. Fatwa. Fatwa.

And what is a fatwa? A fatwa is a... A fatwa is Fatwa. Fatwa. And what is a fatwa? A fatwa is a... A fatwa is issued by a cleric. There have been millions of fatwas over the history of Islam. There are fatwas that have disagreed profoundly with each other. And many Shiite and Sunnis disagree, the clerics disagree, over the nature of the fatwas and the type of instructions they give. But Ayatollah Khomeini had tremendous power as the leader of the revolution and the de facto leader of the Iranian state. He had the ultimate voice.

And so this fatwa was arguably far more powerful than many other fatwas. He was not just a political or spiritual leader. His word was law, not just to Iranian hardline fundamentalists, but all across the Middle East. What happened was Khomeini died four months after he issued the fatwa, and Salman Rushdie was still alive. So the fatwa lingered out there and has now for 33 years. What's the initial reaction to this declaration, to this order to murder people who work in publishing? was particularly concerned and immediately began providing guards for Rushdie because he had to go

into hiding, particularly as more and more attacks were coming out. Somewhere in London, no one but Scotland Yard knows exactly where, Rushdie holds up in a series of flats, moving to another location every time Scotland Yard's special branch thinks it prudent that he do so. But it eventually led to Britain breaking off relations with Iran. There were deep diplomatic consequences. It affected Iran's trade with the international community. Its relations as a pariah state for almost another decade. And so it had grave repercussions. And of course, for other people, it had consequences as well.

The Japanese translator was stabbed to death. Hitoshi Igarashi, an expert on Islam and professor at the University of Tsukuba, was found dead this morning in front of an elevator near his office. He had been stabbed several times. The assailant has still never been caught. The Norwegian publisher was attacked near his home, and the Italian translator was also stabbed. So there have been a lot of consequences for Rushdie, for his publishers, and in the diplomatic world. So it sounds like the West on some level came to Rushdie's defense, but were there people who sympathized with the Ayatollah?

Was there anyone who criticized Rushdie for the satanic verses? There were some people who tried to parse the issue by condemning the fatwa, but expressing understanding for the fact that some Muslims may be hurt or offended by passages of the book. Even Jimmy Carter, whose presidency was destroyed by Ayatollah Khomeini, denounced the book, calling it an insult to the sacred beliefs of our Muslim friends. And meanwhile, what happens to Rushdie in the years after the fatwas issued? For nine years, he went underground. After the fatwa was originally deemed to be settled by the British government and by the reformers in the Iranian government, Rushdie reemerged gradually, sometimes with little or no protection. You know, he did a cameo on Bridget Jones' Diaries.

It's like a whole theory of short fiction and of the novella, you know? And of course, the problem with Martin's definition of the novella is it really only applies to him. He became the public face of freedom of expression campaigns around the world. He was a widely sought speaker. He continued to publish books and to go out and promote them and talk about the ideas in them. So he became much more accessible and he lived in New York and acted like anyone in New York does, visible on the street sometimes. And was there a sense through all of this, through cameos and movies and marrying Padma Lakshmi, that maybe this whole fatwa thing was over with? Well, what was very interesting was that Khomeini died and a reform movement emerged in Iran. Its emergence was the political crisis that

led Khomeini to issue this fatwa. But nine years later, its proponents had won the presidency, and they wanted to end the tensions over the fatwa. They wanted to renew relations with Britain and other Western countries and deal with the fatwa itself. And so there were talks between the Iranians and the Brits, and they agreed to terms to restore relations, which basically centered over lifting the fatwa. And I had breakfast with President Mohammad Khatami, who was the leader of the reform movement, when he came to the United Nations in 1998. And he told me and a small group of journalists over breakfast that we should consider the Salman Rushdie affair completely over. And there was a broad sense in the intelligence communities in the West, and even among many in the Middle East, that the issue had been settled. The problem is Afatwa

lives on forever. And it continued to be a football between Iranian reformers and hardliners. The current Supreme Leader in 2017 was asked, as one does in a fatwa, whether Khomeini's fatwa was still valid. And in 2017, Ayatollah Khamenei said that the imam's fatwa is as it was. In other words, it was still alive. Again, not much was made of that. But in a very interesting coincidence, or maybe not, five days before the attack on Rushdie, one of the Iranian hardline publications reprinted the fatwa in full.

And the timing was very striking. Support for Today Explained comes from Aura. Aura believes that sharing pictures is a great way to keep up with family, and Aura says it's never been easier thanks to their digital picture frames. They were named the number one digital photo frame by Wirecutter. Aura frames make it easy to share unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame. When you give an Aura frame as a gift, you can personalize it, you can preload it with a thoughtful message, maybe your favorite photos. Our colleague Andrew tried an AuraFrame for himself.

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to get $35 off Aura's best-selling Carvermat frames with promo code EXPLAINED at checkout. That's A-U-R-A-Frames. frames with promo code EXPLAINED at checkout. That's A-U-R-A frames dot com promo code EXPLAINED. This deal is exclusive to listeners and available just in time for the holidays. Terms and conditions do apply. What is first uttered in the impotence of an overheated apartment becomes the fate of nations. Who has not dreamed this dream of being king for a day? But the imam dreams of more than a day. Fields emanating from his fingertips, the arachnid strings with which he will control the movement of history.

Today explained, continuing with Robin Wright, the coverage of Rushdie's attack in the West has been one of shock and outrage. And, you know, this is an abomination of freedom of speech. How was the news received in Iran? Hardline newspapers responded in outrageous ways to the attack against Rushdie. They celebrated it. They celebrated Hadi Matar, the 24-year-old Lebanese born in America who'd carried out this egregious attack. They called him a hero.

I heard the news on the TV, and I was so glad because of the insults Salman Rushdie had made against our prophet, and the fatwa issued against him finally worked. They should know that sooner or later, the right will always overcome. God willing, he pays for what he did. One of the papers published a picture of Rushdie on a stretcher being carried away from Chautauqua with a headline, Satan on the Path to Hell. So, hardliners celebrated this, and many of the papers are very close to the regime. The editors are even appointed by the Supreme Leader. The government itself said that it had nothing to do with this attack and that Rushdie had just brought this on himself. The initial sense is that this may have been a lone wolf attack, even though it was pre-planned and pre-staged.

He's a kid who was born in the United States, lived in New Jersey. He went back to Lebanon to visit one of his parents. They had divorced in 2018, and he came back much more religious, his mother said, and she had a hard time connecting with him. There are questions on the basis of his social media accounts, which were filled with pictures of Ayatollah Khomeini, pictures of General Soleimani, who is the leader of the Revolutionary Guards Quds Force, whom the United States killed in a drone strike in January 2020, pictures of the former military chief of Hezbollah. So from his social media accounts on Twitter, on Facebook, there are indications that he had begun to follow the kind of ideas popular among hardliners. We don't know what connections he

ever made with anyone in Hezbollah or anyone in Iran. We may find that out down the road. And how is the United States government responding? So the interesting thing about the Rushdie attack is that it intersects with two other points of tension with the United States and with the broader world. The first was the announcement just a few days before Rushdie was attacked by the American Justice Department. Today, the Department of Justice unsealed charging documents revealing an Iranian murder plot against John Bolton, the Trump national security adviser. There were subsequent reports that other operations involved plots against former Secretary of State

Mike Pompeo and former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, as well as other officials I know about but who have not gone public. They are all receiving now round-the-clock government protection from threats by Iran and its proxy Hezbollah from Lebanon. The second crisis is the Iran nuclear deal, which was negotiated by the Obama administration and finalized after two years of torturous diplomacy in 2015 and then abruptly abandoned by President Trump in 2018. The Biden administration has been trying to revive it because the Iranians turned around and accelerated their program, and they're now just days away from having produced enough enriched

uranium to fuel a bomb which is a critical step in building producing and packaging a nuclear weapon it's no secret that we have the technical capabilities to produce a nuclear bomb but we do not want it and we have not decided to do so. And so there's particular urgency. And so after 16 months of broad tensions, the Iranians have said they will give their answer finally now. And so we're at the denouement stage of that. But this all comes together at a time that while Biden prefers diplomacy in the run-up to the midterm elections, doing a deal with Iran, given Rushdie, given the murder-for-hire plots, is going to be very hard politically. And so we're kind of back to the early tensions

between Iran and the United States 43 years ago at the time of the revolution. And this is also a moment where the original revolutionaries are beginning to die out. Khamenei, the supreme leader who's been in power for 30 years. He had prostate cancer a few years ago. The actuarial charts would tell you that time is beginning to run out for him. And the big question, with the majority of Iranians now born since the revolution, the majority of voters born since the revolution, and the majority of Iranians really very tech savvy, very much connected to the outside world. They're on TikTok and social media, and they're not as wedded to the strict religious ideology of the men who carried out the revolution. So the fate of the revolution is also at stake. There's a lot that's playing out

in these separate events that are actually linked in terms of the future. So it's not beyond imagination that this attempted assassination of Salman Rushdie, years after people had stopped thinking about this fatwa, could play into some very important, decisive moments in Iran's political history? And in U.S.-Iran relations, or relations even between the West. Rushdie remains a British citizen as well. He's been knighted by the queen. There are a lot of people who have once again condemned Iran in the same way they did at the time the fatwa came out. You know, one of the questions is, is it acceptable? Are people who prefer diplomacy even willing to accept a nuclear deal again with Iran? This is a very tricky moment for President Biden and a tragic moment for Salman Rushdie in terms of his personal life, but it plays out in ways that affect us all.

You know, it may make some writers rethink how far they're willing to go, how creative they're willing to be. But I think in broad terms, in terms of the history of the moment, there's a real danger that the attack and the events that have played out over the last year and a half with the politics in Iran, the revelation of these death plots against Americans, most of which relate to our killing of General Qasem Soleimani in 2020, that the tensions between Iran and the United States play out in ways that if there isn't diplomacy, if there isn't resolution of our differences, that that leaves military options as the logical alternative. And frankly, I fear that any war between Iran and the United States,

potentially involving other players, including Israel and some of our other allies, would be more difficult and more costly with more consequences than either of our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. And that's a fairly terrifying thought. Robin Wright is a contributing writer for The New Yorker. She's also a senior fellow at not one, but two Washington think tanks. The U.S. Institute of Peace and the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. Our show today was produced by Abishai Artsy, mixed by Paul Robert Mounsey, and fact-checked by Laura Bullard, with help from Hadi Mawagdi and Tori Dominguez. The rest of the team at Today Explained includes Halima Shah,

Amanda Llewellyn, Miles Bryan, and Victoria Chamberlain. We had extra help this week from John Ahrens. Our editor is Matthew Collette. Our supervising producer is Amina Alsadi. Afim Shapiro is our director of sound. My co-host is Noel King. We use music by Breakmaster Cylinder and Noam Hassenfeld. We're on the radio in partnership with WNYC. Today Explained is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Thank you.