Today, Explained - The war on drag

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

Melissa Brown, a state politics reporter for The Tennessean, spills the tea on Tennessee’s new drag restrictions. And drag performer Bella DuBalle promises the state’s queens have no plans to sashay away. This episode was produced by Avishay Artsy, edited by Matt Collette, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Paul Robert Mounsey, and hosted by Noel King. Transcript at vox.com/todayexplained   Support Today, Explained by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, look over there. A classic distraction technique. You mean Tennessee's new law that limits adult cabaret? A distraction from what, though? From the real issues that they were voted into office to focus on. Jobs, health care, keeping our children safe from harm at their own school. Tennessee lawmakers say this law is about keeping kids safe. The trouble is, they're targeting a thing that does not seem to be happening. I keep hearing this narrative that, you know, we're doing this to protect the children, to protect the children. And I have asked the governor many times to produce

any evidence that would suggest that children are in danger at these performances. And he has thus far provided me none. Coming up on Today Explained, what this law says and what it's really about. The all-new FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino is bringing you more action than ever. Want more ways to follow your faves? Check out our new player prop tracking with real-time notifications. Or how about more ways to customize your casino page with our new favorite and recently played games tabs?

And to top it all off, quick and secure withdrawals. Get more everything with FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600. Visit connectsontario.ca. I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained. And to explain this vaguely worded state law restricting what is being called adult cabaret, we called Melissa Brown. Melissa is a state political reporter with the Tennessean newspaper in Nashville. Obviously, there's, you know, a wider national trend of legislation targeting LGBTQ communities,

allegations often from conservative circles that drag performances sexualize or, quote, groom children, though drag is a centuries-old sort of performance art form, right? The Senate sponsor, Jack Johnson, has repeatedly said the bill is not intended to target drag performances. We're not banning drag shows. We're not banning allowing someone to dress up, you know, a man to dress up like Dolly Parton and sing songs or a woman to dress up like Elvis

and sing songs. However, it really seems that the Tennessee law can be connected to a legal battle last year in a Tennessee city called Jackson. It's LGBTQ pride season in Jackson. Hundreds came out to capital city prides coming home for pride festival on Saturday. House representative Chris Todd, who is a Republican, was among a group of civic leaders in Jackson who challenged a plan to hold a family-friendly drag show in a local pride celebration. This was last

fall. Todd, at the time, referred to drag as, quote, child abuse and said drag events were, quote, clearly meant to groom and recruit children to this lifestyle. That's exactly what these kind of entertainment shows are directed toward, and that is to groom and recruit children to a lifestyle that they're not old enough to even understand. The two groups eventually came to an agreement. The Pride organizers agreed to hold the show and age restrict it to adults. And that seemed to sort of nullify the court battle going on there. But Todd eventually came to co-sponsor the drag bill in this Tennessee General Assembly. The other lawmaker in Tennessee who obviously and understandably is getting a lot of attention is the governor, Bill Lee. What has he said when

pushed on why this law is necessary? Lee hasn't spoken extensively about this bill. You know, he did sign it last week without a lot of fanfare. He didn't hold, you know, a press conference or send out a statement. A couple of days before he signed, he was at a press availability and was asked about the bill. And he said children should not be, quote, exposed to sexualized entertainment to obscenity. Sexualized entertainment in front of children and obscenity for children is something that shouldn't happen in this state. And that's been sort of the breadth of what he has said on the bill. Most of the debate has gone on in the General Assembly. What does this very controversial law actually say, Melissa?

I think it's important at the beginning of this to sort of correct the record on Tennessee's drag bill. It's not an outright ban on public drag performances, and it certainly does not, for example, criminalize on Tennessee's drag bill. It's not an outright ban on public drag performances, and it certainly does not, for example, criminalize or make illegal a family-friendly event involving drag queens or similar events. That has been circulated a lot, and I understand why legislation can be incredibly confusing.

It's not 100% an outright drag ban, though there are a lot of valid concerns that the law could have a chilling effect on drag. So the law states, we want to kind of get into the meat of it, that it's an offense for a person to, quote, engage in adult cabaret entertainment on public property or in a location where the adult cabaret entertainment could be viewed by a person who is not an adult. And the new law uses some existing statute wording to include, quote, male and female impersonators

in adult cabaret entertainment. However, and this is the key part, adult cabaret entertainment is also defined as, quote, adult-oriented performances that are harmful to minors. Now, harmful to minors sounds like a vague term, but it's actually a legal term that's defined elsewhere in state obscenity law. And so to legally qualify as harmful to minors as defined in Tennessee Code, a performance would have to meet a pretty strong three-pronged test, which basically says that the average person would have to find it obscene and patently offensive to prevailing community standards.

And the other key here is that it must also lack serious literary, artistic, political, and or scientific value for minors to be found harmful under the obscenity code. And as we know, obscenity standards, particularly when involving a form of speech or artistic expression, can be a really high legal standard to meet. Interesting. I wonder if Tennessee already has obscenity laws on the books and you've just described them. Why do the lawmakers who introduced this say an additional law is needed? If you look back over committee debates and floor debates, several of the Democratic opponents to this law made that point a lot that anything that would reasonably be found obscene under this new law is already found obscene under existing law. Obscene behavior is already covered under federal law. I'm sure that most of us also saw the self-proclaimed Nazis who were protesting drag shows. Is that who we want to align ourselves with?

And there haven't been a lot of explanations about what this does in addition to an existing obscenity law. But the Republicans backing this bill, you know, say that it's important to protect children from sexualized entertainment. I don't find that appropriate in any shape, form, or fashion, and in a public venue especially. What really remains to be seen is how this will be enforced going forward. A constant debate within committees is about how this could be construed in other contexts. There were Republicans and Democrats in committees who were concerned about how it might affect major pop concerts, right? Tennessee's own Miley Cyrus at Bridgestone Arena. Seen her there in the past

myself. Would that cross the line? Could she be subject to a pair of handcuffs based upon the vagueness? We have a huge entertainment community here in Nashville and the Senate sponsor, Senator Jack Johnson, has been fairly careful in how he describes this bill and saying that it's just overtly sexualized, such as like stripping, those kinds of performances that will be banned here. But there are also Republicans who have gone on record saying that they think any drag performance is inherently inappropriate. Whether or not the law is actually used in that way, we just don't know yet, and how it will be enforced. Okay, so some of the we don't know yet gets to enforcement and wording of the law. We just don't know yet and how it will be enforced. Okay, so some of the we don't know

yet gets to enforcement and wording of the law. We just don't know. Is the vagueness intentional? You know, I've talked to a national defense attorney and he did call the language and the law quite broad. Part of the law that says entertainment that, quote, could be viewed by a child, that's very vague. Does that mean when someone walks by a restaurant that's age-restricted and sees something through a window, you know, could someone get in trouble for that? The attorney pointed to that specifically and said that is very vague. And again, there are a lot of questions about how that could ever be enforceable. I think we're in a holding pattern in Tennessee. Obviously, the law goes into effect

on April 1st, and then it's just a waiting game to see where, if, and when, really, this statute could be enforced. What's the response been to the drag law in Tennessee? I think there's been a lot of confusion on both sides, in LGBTQ communities and drag performance communities that there could be sort of piecemeal or haphazard enforcement of the law. I'm a trans person. Depending on who is reading that law, they may determine that I am a female impersonator. Obviously, we've seen a lot of national pushback. The White House slammed both bills for, quote, vilifying Americans. These ridiculous policies aren't just unnecessary. They are dangerous. They vilify our fellow Americans. I think many people support the law in Tennessee as well, but we're also hearing a lot of people speaking out against it. How does this law fit with other legislation that affects LGBTQ communities in your state? The General Assembly session started in January,

and bills affecting the LGBTQ community were really among the first handful filed and really among the first prioritized in committees. The day that Governor Lee signed the drag bill, he also signed Senate Bill 1, which bans all form of gender-affirming health treatments for minors in the state. Well, it helps the minor children who otherwise might be subjected to surgical procedures that remove body parts or being prescribed medications that make permanent changes to a child's body. And really, you know, unlike the broad language and questionable potential application of the drag bill, SB1 is very specific and will require any transgender or non-binary children currently undergoing treatments like puberty blockers or hormone therapies to end all of their medical treatments by next March. There aren't necessarily criminal penalties attached to the bill, but health providers could lose their licenses for prescribing the treatments moving forward.

They've been legislating all kinds of things that are relevant to the field of medicine without being doctors themselves. And a lot of times without speaking to experts in the field that they're legislating. And that's dangerous. And Democrats have decried this legislation and really sort of this whole slate of bills, but have little power to stop the legislation from advancing under the Republican supermajority here in Tennessee. You cover Tennessee state politics, but I wonder what you've seen nationally. Is there an expectation that this drag law in Tennessee could be a precedent for other states? I think we are seeing that. I know states like, I think, Kentucky, Idaho, North Dakota, maybe a few others are considering similar bills. Across the country, similar laws are in the works, with conservative lawmakers in at least 13 other states advancing bills to restrict drag. Drag performance and ensuing controversies have really become sort of a issue du jour

of the legislative season. And I think it's reasonable to expect to see them in other states. Coming up next, a Tennessee drag performer who is fired up. Support for Today Explained comes from R.A.M.P., who is fired up. in your pocket. Ramp says they give finance teams unprecedented control and insight into company spend. With Ramp, you're able to issue cards to every employee with limits and restrictions

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That's a question. Yeah. Yeah, and what's the answer? Look over there! Where? It's Today Explained. We're back talking about a new law that is intended to restrict drag shows in Tennessee.

My name is Slade Kyle, and my onstage name is Bella DeBall, and I am a full-time drag entertainer and show host. Bella hosts and performs in drag shows, some for adults, some for both adults and kids during the daytime, at the Atomic Rose in Memphis. Bella is a sweet, classy Southern lady. She is the intersection of Miss Piggy, Mr. Rogers and Dolly Parton. Hey y'all, I'm your little show hostess, the Bluff City bombshell, Miss Bella

Duvall. With wigs and heels, I'm about seven feet tall. Did somebody order a giant woman? Yes, here I am. Hey there, Atomic Rose. Look at you on this beautiful rainbow Sunday.

Most of my aesthetic is very classic drag, very southern drag. So you're going to get big hair, lots of sparkle, big long gowns. Has anyone here on this packed house Sunday never been to a drag show before? How did you get into performing in drag? So I am a founding company member of the Tennessee Shakespeare Company. And while I was with them, I got to play a couple of female roles on stage, including the nurse in Romeo and Juliet. And so it actually started through Shakespeare.

That was also during the time when Drag Race was really taking off. It was so liberating and so delightful, I had to keep doing it. Now, I have assembled an amazing cast. I have entertainers from all of the ranks of our local drag competition, War of the Roses. So I pride myself on giving people a glimpse into the crayon box of drag. So I want you to see all the colors. I really book a diverse show. So you're going to get some old school, like a little Dolly and Whitney.

You're probably going to get some comedy. You're going to get some camp. You're going to get at least one girl who does all the dances and stunts that people are used to seeing on Drag Race. But mostly you're going to get a really diverse representation so that if you are new to the art of drag, you'll walk away with a much broader understanding of how many people fall under that umbrella.

Is it a good time? I mean, the audience leaves happy. No one breaks into tears. There are no children running out the back door. But be honest with me. Is it fun for the audience? If anybody ever breaks into tears, it's because I'm doing a ballad in sign language and they were moved. But no, our families that come to our Sunday brunches are returners. They keep bringing their kids back. Their kids beg to come back because it is a really fun time.

You get to go in, sit down, eat a really great meal, be entertained for a little while. We kind of call it gay church. Gay church. And presumably, nobody's being dragged in. Nobody's being forced to watch the show. You know, amazingly enough, you have to choose to come into the building and watch the show. Yeah. We have yet to find a way to compel people or force them to attend.

Now, I do have to speak about something important this morning. As you may know, drag is under attack here in the state of Tennessee. Bella, what do you think this new drag law means for your job, the way you make a living, your performances? What are the effects you think you might see soon? I was really, really worried about the effects of this bill because, you know, as you're aware, it's very vague in its terminology, very overreaching. But in just the past couple of days since the governor signed it, I've seen the statements from the district attorneys. I think the bill is ill-advised. I think it's a solution in search of a problem.

I think we've got so much on our plate right now that we should be focusing on drag racing, not drag shows. And I've also seen the White House press secretary's comments about the law, and that has greatly heartened and emboldened me. That lets me know that they're going to continue fighting for us and supporting our community. If they were to attempt to misuse this law, the effects that it could have there are to tell me that I can't march in the pride parade that we have every year because that would be public. I am an ordained minister and I have couples that have asked me to marry them in public and drag. I would be concerned if someone would attempt to use this law to infringe upon my freedom of religion. I've been asked by several of the area churches to go into their spaces and lead drag queen story time. The law makes no distinctions about what drag is or is not. You know, I'm sure

you saw the viral photo of Governor Bill Lee from his 1977 yearbook. I did. This is the photo. Somebody on Reddit posted it from a 1977 high school yearbook, purporting to show the governor apparently in a skirt, a wig, and a necklace. Again, allegedly the governor. It's most likely part of a powderpuff football game where kids dress as the opposite gender. And he, in those statements, said, you know, that's ridiculous. You can't conflate something like that with sexual entertainment in front of kids. And I agree. That's not the same thing. But he does not agree with me that he signed a law that makes no such distinctions.

It doesn't give you a clear picture between that and any other kind of dress-up, any of the arts, nothing about ballet or opera or theater, nothing about people in costumes or fundraisers or anything like that. And especially it doesn't give you any exemptions for trans people, gender non-conforming people, non-binary people in their everyday presentation. As a non-binary person, I frequently wear clothing that is not ascribed to my gender. And I would worry that somebody would see me in public and attempt to use this law to chill my constitutionally protected expression. This is our right to appear in public as well. And we've had public drag performances in Tennessee

for over 50 years. Okay, so a long history. And so I wonder what you're hearing from people you work with, your employers, the owners of the Atomic Rose. Have you gotten any warnings? Have they talked with our lawyers. We've talked to the ACLU. Everybody says we should go forward, that we're not in any violation. We need to keep going. So he's like, I will let you be the voice and the mouthpiece for the club. You say what needs to be said and we will back you. We have doubled up our security. We've now got an officer with a metal detector wand and everything checking folks before they come in. So he's definitely made sure that the staff and the performers and the audience members will be safe because of course, when you speak out like this,

it does have a tendency to make you a little bit more of a target. Now my performers, much more hopeful now, now that we've seen a lot of other folks coming to the rescue and the cavalry arriving. But before that, several of my girls are full-time entertainers, just like I am. For instance, one of them is a non-binary person who's raising a child. And they worry about, how will I feed my kid if I lose this job? I have a black trans girl on my cast that's been with me for, we started doing drag together a decade ago. And in case you don't know, it's really hard to get employed as a black trans person in the cell. And so she's worried about her livelihood.

Hey, it's Art out here. A lot of these entertainers, this is what we do for a living. You are literally sustaining us and keeping us alive, y'all. Do you think that drag is inherently political or do you think it has been politicized in the times we live in? Now, drag is absolutely political. Walking out of the house in something that doesn't conform to your gender is a radical act. And drag queens have always been at the forefront. If you look all the way back to Stonewall, it was drag entertainers and trans people of color that led the rebellion that gave us the gay rights movement. So to me, yeah, drag is inherently always political.

So then why does this bill pass now in 2023? To me, it's part of an overreaching attack on the queer community. That doesn't necessarily mean that I think that the majority of Tennesseans are on board with legislation like this. Even people that don't necessarily care about drag or trans people are far more interested in the economy, inflation, healthcare, education, crime, and all these actual real issues than they are about trying to chill free speech. Do you think that people might leave Tennessee over the passage of a law like this? Have you considered leaving Tennessee for a state that might be friendlier?

I've heard a lot of my friends and family over the past several years who have made their way out of the state. Yeah, many people moving to blue states. It's not uncommon. You know, many of us find the struggle and the burden to be too hard. For me, I feel like somebody has to stay and fight. I grew up queer in Tennessee in a little bitty farm community, and I barely survived it. And I feel the need to stay and try and make this state more accepting for all the queer youth that are going to follow after me. And so what is the plan going forward? Where do you go from here?

What are you going to do tonight? We continue. We keep doing the same thing that we've been doing. We are in no violation of any laws. And so we're continuing our shows just like we have been. I'm continuing to present authentically in public just like I have been. I made a very open statement at this past Sunday's brunch that if someone attempts to use this law to tell me

that I cannot march in the Pride Parade and Festival, I will not comply. If they try and tell me or use the law to prevent me from going to Kroger and address as my authentic, non-binary self out in public, I will not comply. If they attempt to use the legislation to say that I can no longer welcome children

into our all-ages performance in this safe space, I will not comply. I mean, if somebody has to be arrested in order for the ACLU to move the case forward, I've made it 43 years without a charge, and I'm happy to catch one for a cause. Respect my existence! Or expect my resistance! Slade Kyle, Bella Duvall, thank you so much for taking the time for us today.

This was really wonderful. You are so welcome. Today's episode was produced by Avishai Artsy and edited by Matthew Collette. It was fact-checked by Laura Bullard and engineered by Paul Robert Mouncey. I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained. Bye.