Today, Explained - Throwing money at the migrant crisis

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

Vice President Kamala Harris just attended Honduras’s presidential inauguration. Her trip was really about the US-Mexico border. February 4, 2022 correction: An earlier version of this episode incorrectly stated that President Alejandro Giammattei of Guatemala was accused by U.S. prosecutors of taking drug money. It was actually the former President of Honduras, Juan Orlando Hernández. We have removed the reference from the episode. Guatemalan prosecutors are investigating the claim that President Giammattei took a bribe from Russia. This episode was produced by Haleema Shah, edited by Matt Collette, engineered by Efim Shapiro and Paul Mounsey, fact-checked by Laura Bullard and hosted by Sean Rameswaram. Transcript at vox.com/todayexplained Support Today, Explained by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. Franco Ordonez, you cover the White House for NPR. You're also on the Politics Podcast quite a bit. And you recently were on a plane to Honduras with Vice President Kamala Harris. How come?

Well, Vice President Harris was going to Honduras to attend the inauguration of Xiomara Castro. She's the new causes of migration. And it's a really big deal, actually, that Kamala Harris went because, you know, vice presidents don't often go to Latin America for inaugurations and particularly countries as small as Honduras. So it really shows how important this is for this White House to have this partnership, because frankly, they really don't have someone that Harris can call in the region to talk with and really work out how to make things better. Our perspective as the United States in terms of our relationship with Honduras is one that we believe our nations as our most

nations these days interconnected and interdependent. Because the vast majority of the migrants that are coming to the United States, that are coming to the border, are coming from the countries in Central America, in the Northern Triangle. We are going after the American dream because in our country there's no jobs, there's a lot of crime, and you cannot make a living. Our house was swept away by hurricanes. So that's Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador,

and increasingly a number are coming from Nicaragua, though Nicaragua is not part of the Northern Triangle. And the reality is the United States needs a partner because they don't have so much of a partner in Guatemala and El Salvador, which have kind of taken anti-democratic turns and they've been having problems with corruption. So the United States is kind of desperate for someone and they hope that that person is Xiomara Castro.

The last time Vice President Harris took a trip to Central America, it didn't go so well. I want to be clear to folks in this region who are thinking about making that dangerous trek to the United States-Mexico border. Do not come. Do not come. She told migrants very emphatically not to come to the United States, and it wasn't very well received. Did this one go better than that one? Yeah, I would say it went a lot better than that one. I mean, that one, you know, really went against what so much of the supporters of the administration wanted to hear.

They wanted a more humane policy, and that didn't sound like the kind of policy that they thought they were going to get. And that was obviously very early in the administration. This trip, it was some good news to share and to talk about and to tout. I mean, the administration has really been having such a hard time with the region. Now, with this potential new partner, this is some good news for the administration because Xiomara Castro campaigned on a platform that the United States really, really liked. Promising to fight corruption. President Xiomara Castro ran on an anti-corruption platform,

promising an overhaul of the country's legal system. Promising to improve health care. She's promising to work on climate change. It's those things, particularly fighting corruption, are the things that the United States want to hear. Great. Well, let's talk a little bit more about this new Castro. Does she have any relation, first off, to the old Castro in Cuba? She does not have any relation to the old Castro in Cuba, as far as I know. Okay, fair.

What's her story? I mean, how'd she come to power? Was she elected democratically? Was there any funny business? So there was no funny business. It was actually a very decisive victory for her. You know, there were a lot of concerns about it because in the last election,

there was accusations of funny business. So it was a concern of that happening this time, but it wasn't. And how she came to power is, you know, she's actually the wife of a former president of Honduras who was ousted in a coup. And she ran twice before in the following years and did not win, but this time she didn't. And again, it was a very decisive victory. She had a lot of support and a lot of enthusiasm. I mean, when I was there in the stadium in Honduras for the inauguration, I mean, there was a lot of excitement inside and outside the stadium for Xiomara Cáceres. No more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, no more violence, How do the Honduran people feel about this extra attention from the United States? Well, I mean, I think there's been a big demand from the people of Honduras.

They too want, you know, these issues to be addressed. We hope that she will deliver that which we've been hoping for for years, that people will no longer migrate to other countries, that people will stay and have decent employment, because we all have a right to that. No one wants to leave their home. They want more economic opportunities in their home countries, and they're quite fed up

with the challenges that their governments have had. That's why, I mean, I think you can make an argument or make a case why Castro was so decisively elected. Okay, so how does the Biden administration want to capitalize on all of this excitement around this new Anduran president? I mean, apart from her being anti-corruption, what do they actually want to accomplish? You know, it's a tough question because there are so many needs in Central America. But the kinds of things that they feel that they can work with Castro on are helping the Honduran people, particularly, for example, they've already announced some more vaccines going to Honduras.

They're helping provide some funding for education, for public health awareness. They want to do the kind of things that are going to encourage the Honduran people to stay in their homes and not feel a need to leave. Poverty has increased by 74% to turn our country into the poorest in Latin America. This statistic in itself explains the caravans of thousands of people who flee north towards Mexico and the United States. Xiomara Castro has talked about putting in a new kind of prosecutorial type thing to kind of fight corruption. It was something that was done in Guatemala, and she's talked about

bringing the UN, the United Nations, to help with that. So these are the kind of things that she's talking about and that the United States feels that they can help kind of bring her along and help this. Because the reality is she has some huge, huge challenges. The economy in Honduras is really, really bad. Drugs and narco-trafficking are basically permeated in every part of the Honduran state. And she's hopeful that, you know, with the United States' help and with others' help, that she can start to kind of pick away at some of these problems and hopefully provide some, you know, more hope for her people because so many are coming to the United States. I think in the last fiscal year,

more than 300,000 Hondurans were encountered by border patrol agents. That's a lot. Well, let's talk about this economic plan that the United States is drawing up with Honduras. How does it work? One of the key things that they're doing, because they feel that it's not only going to be government social services, is that really is going to help the country. There's so many issues, and they really want to bring in the private sector. It's called Partnership for Central America. And what they're trying to do is get American companies to partner with Honduran companies to kind of boost the opportunities, boost jobs, basically, so that people do not feel that they need to leave.

And they've gotten some commitments from companies like Microsoft, Cargill, Care International, PepsiCo. Perseverance, resilience, leadership, commitment and constancy have led us to celebrate this moment in history. This is the story of a great community, a story of success, that we will continue to write together. Cargill.

And so, you know, we'll see what happens, but they hope, you know, to make some progress. And somehow a leftist politician named Castro is on board with bringing in a bunch of raging capitalism to turn her country around. Yeah, that's what's been very interesting about this election. You know, it's kind of counterintuitive that that would be the case. But she's really, so far, so far, she has shown at least that she is willing to kind of buck certain trends. And a lot of people, when she was first elected, the narrative was like, this is going to be really bad for the United States. A socialist is being elected, a leftist. But, you know, it's been very interesting to watch and listen to her speak because she is very eager to work with the United States on some of these

issues, including economic and working with, you know, U.S. business and trying to figure out different ways to help her people. Now, could that change? Absolutely. I mean, these problems have been going on for years and years and years, administration after administration. Obama spent billions in Central America. Limited progress has been made. Support for Today Explained comes from Ramp. Ramp is the corporate card and spend management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket. Ramp says they give finance teams unprecedented control and insight into company spend. With Ramp, you're able to issue cards to every employee with limits and restrictions and automate expense reporting so you can stop wasting time at the end of every month.

And now you can get $250 when you join Ramp. You can go to ramp.com slash go to ramp.com slash explained ramp.com slash explained r a m p.com slash explained cards issued by Sutton bank member FDIC terms and conditions apply. Bet MGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with Bet MGM.

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Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Kargil. Franco, a minute ago you mentioned that there were some serious, profound challenges to actualizing this sort of economic agenda that the Biden administration is working on with countries like Honduras. Let's talk about the challenges in Honduras itself, beyond corruption, beyond drugs? What are the challenges facing this new president as she tries to implement this agenda with companies like Microsoft and Pepsi and Cargill? She's got huge challenges, particularly in Congress. You know, there was a lot of hope that her party would take control of the various branches of government and she would have

the support of leaders of her party in implementing this entire agenda. But what happened is, you know, the leftist government kind of split into two, where she doesn't have the same kind of power that the United States can kind of hope they would. And it really created a congressional crisis. Xiomara Castro's presidency is already fraught with trepidation, even before it starts. Right before the vice president went down to Honduras, members of Congress on the left were literally punching each other in the halls of Congress down in Honduras. Honduras' Congress is in crisis over who should lead the legislative body.

Last week, around 20 lawmakers from her own Libre o' Freedom party defected in opposition to Castro's choice for congressional leader. So without that kind of support that she hoped to have, it's going to be really hard to kind of implement so many of the things that she wants to implement. You know, on top of that, we've talked a lot about corruption,

but that is always going to be a big issue because drug trafficking of the narco world really do have their tentacles in so many parts of the Honduran state. So it is going to take a lot. Again, without kind of like the party leadership that she had hoped to have, it is going to be harder and harder to kind of push back against that kind of narco infrastructure that she'll likely have

to fight. So what does that mean for this agenda that the Biden administration is trying to implement? Is it going to make it through Honduran political gridlock? Are they going to be dealing with gridlock in the United States and down in Central America? I mean, that's likely the case. There's going to be, you know, continued battles and ongoing battles that Castro is going to have to fight and deal with in Tegucigalpa. And the United States, you know,

from the sources and the administration that I've spoken to, they're very wide-eyed that those are going to be challenges for them. And Honduras isn't the only country at stake here and where they're investing. Do we have any idea how this strategy might work out in other Northern Triangle countries

where they don't have an ally in leadership? Yeah, I mean, that's why Castro is so important and so key to the United States. I mean, clearly a lot of migration is coming from Honduras, but there's also a lot of migration coming from Guatemala and a lot of migration coming from El Salvador. The president of El Salvador, Bukele, he has been recently getting into fights with U.S. administration over social media, particularly Twitter. So there's really not so much collaboration going on between the United States and those other leaders, hence why it's so important for the United States

to finally have someone. I mean, to have someone that Harris can call and talk about some of these issues. So if this goes well, it could be something of a game changer, at least in one country in Central America, where we're like a lasting relationship, you know, and having good cooperation with a leader. A game changer would be, you know, implementing some of the things that Castro wants to implement, such as, you know, a special court to investigate corruption. I think the idea of numbers starting to decrease are many years, many, many years away. But you're absolutely right. It's only one country. And that shows how big of a challenge this issue is and how big of a challenge it's going to be for the long-term future. I mean, any idea or hope that some of this will be resolved by the midterms, just for example, is not going to happen. And how will the Biden administration have to respond if this type of strategy just continues

to not work as it has for the previous 10 or so years. Yeah, I mean, there are those who are like, why does the United States continue to invest billions and billions of dollars in a part of the world that causes the United States so many problems? But the reality is, you know, the United States, their interests are just too great in Central America. I mean, the numbers of people coming to the United States are just so high that the United States can't afford to do nothing. The stakes are just too high. Franco Ordonez, he's the White House correspondent for National Public Radio.

You can often hear him on the NPR Politics Podcast, too. I'm Sean Robbins-Furham. Our show today was produced by Halima Shah, edited by Matthew Collette, engineered by Paul Mounsey, and his boss, Afim Shapiro, and fact-checked by Laura Bullard. It is Today Explained. Thank you.