Today, Explained - Why Mexico’s top cop is on trial in NYC

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

The US and Mexican governments trusted Genaro Garcia Luna to crack down on the drug trade. Now he’s on trial for conspiring with El Chapo’s Sinaloa cartel. Peniley Ramírez, co-host of the new podcast USA v. Garcia Luna, explains. This episode was produced by Haleema Shah, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Paul Robert Mounsey, and edited by Matt Collette and Sean Rameswaram, who also hosted. Transcript at vox.com/todayexplained   Support Today, Explained by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ahead on Today Explained, Mexico's top cop is on trial in New York City. This was the guy who ran Mexico's equivalent to the FBI. The guy who advised the Mexican president on how to combat drug cartels. The guy who took down some of the top cartel leaders. Estados Unidos acusa a Genaro Garcia Luna de recibir millones de dólares en sobornos por parte del cartel de Sinaloa. But he's accused of being something of a double agent, of going after drug cartels publicly while making deals with some of the very same cartels privately. And now he's going to be on trial before the same judge, Brian Cogan,

and in the same place where El Chapo was on trial. And because he was trusted by United States drug enforcement, it's not just Genaro Garcia Luna on trial in New York City. It's the war on drugs. BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas. That's a feeling you can only get with Bet MGM. And no matter your team, your favorite player, or your style,

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Today, today X-Line. It's today X-Line. Okay, let's make a podcast. Today X Life woman. I was born in Cuba. I have been living in Mexico for the last 20 years, but only 35, so I'm not that old. 20 years sounds like a lot. And my name is because of a song by the Beatles called Penny Lane. But people calls me Penny here, which is nice because Penny is a really American name. I'm an investigator reporter. I have been working as an investigator reporter all my career. And I have been obsessed with the person we are about to talk for 10 years now, more than 10 years. So you're obsessed with this person we're about to talk about. Tell me why people who don't know anything about this person should be obsessed with this person. Because this person is like a character of a spy movie.

It's a person that combines politics, combines how a person can see themselves in a way that combines like Hollywood stuff with really high politics and power stuff. So it's one character that summarizes a lot of things that have been in the public interest for so many years. But at the same time, it's a complex character that has so many layers that I never get bored. What is this character's name? His name is Genaro Garcia Luna.

He was the former Secretary of Public Security of Mexico. And right now, he is accused here in New York of being sort of the right hand of Joaquín El Chapo Guzmán, the leader of the Sinaloa cartel within the Mexican government. Help us understand how this guy who's close to the DEA and working with the U.S. government is now on trial in New York City for being a part of the drug trade. Well, people will remember that in late 2018 and early 2019, Joaquin El Chapo Guzman, the leader of the Sinaloa cartel, was on trial here in New York. Why is he being tried in Brooklyn? That was one of several jurisdictions in the United States that had an indictment for him. Some of the others included Texas, California, Florida. But New York offers one of the highest security federal jails in the

country in Manhattan, the MCC. And because the U.S. government knows this is a high profile trial and wants a lot of eyes to be on it, so to maximize the press coverage. This courthouse is operating like a fortress right now. Joaquin El Chapo Guzman is facing 17 counts, including drug trafficking, kidnapping and murder. So in the middle of that trial in November of 2018, one of the leaders of the Sinaloa cartel said that, yeah, I was working with El Chapo. He was the leader of the Sinaloa cartel. But guess what? We were bribing top Mexican officers to smuggle the drugs here. Bribes is a big part of it. Paying the Mexican and Colombian authorities to make sure that the shipments get from South America to Mexico and to the border without being intercepted by the authorities there.

And in the middle of that, he drops the Garcia Luna's name. And you can imagine that was a huge scandal in Mexico. The drug trafficker Ray Zambada assured that Garcia Luna personally received briefcases from the Sinaloa cartel that contained between three and five million dollars. So Garcia Luna by then was living in Miami, but he took the first flight back to Mexico. Garcia Luna denied this to journalist Enrique Hernandez of Double Radio. I never received a penny,

and I had no contact with anyone regarding this encounter with any criminal. That is a lie. And he gave a bunch of interviews saying, oh my God, I'm going to sue this person. How can he say that? He's a criminal. I was the leader of the government trying to capture these people and extradite them. But less than one year after that,

so December of 2019, he was arrested here in the U.S. Genaro Garcia Luna estuvo aquí en el piso número 14 de la Corte Federal en Dallas. And now he's going to be on trial before the same judge, Brian Cogan, and in the same place where El Chapo was on trial. So it's the most important case so far derived from this big trial that was a lot in the news here in the U.S. in 2018 and 2019. And tell us his story. Where does it begin? Well, he was born in Mexico City in 1968. You know, it was like working class neighborhood. His father had a moving business.

He wanted to be a soccer player, so he tried to become a professional soccer player. But he couldn't make it because he was, I think he was not good enough. But then he moved to another career and he started studying engineering. And in the middle of that, he became a low-ranking spy. He entered the equivalent in Mexico to the CIA. This is like the late 80s. And really soon, just in about a decade, the guy becomes the head of the Mexican equivalent to the FBI. And then after that, he became, just in six years, he became the head of the Mexican equivalent to the DHS, plus the NSA, plus the CIA. So he became the most powerful people in the civilian government of Mexico. And also he became one of the most close persons in Mexico to the U.S. government, and especially to the DEA and to the FBI.

Was he good at his job? Well, he was good at selling himself, that we can tell. He was really good because he was like, his career was really fast. He grew up really fast in his career. Grew up is a way to say that in English, grew up. You could say he advanced very quickly in his career or something. Yeah. But I like the way you said it. I like the way you said it. fast in his career. And he became this person that was at some point he was managing millions of dollars from U.S. taxpayers that were sent to Mexico to fight the war on drugs. From 2001 to 2012, he was a top officer. So the guy was all the time in the news in Mexico. He

was meeting with really important people from the U.S. So he has pictures with Hillary Clinton, with Joe Biden. He was like a top, top officer. He was in a lot of bilateral meetings. He was receiving awards from the CIA saying, oh, thank you for helping us. But the crazy thing is that now he's been accused here in New York, in the U.S. Eastern District Court in Brooklyn of helping El Chapo Guzman and the Sinaloa cartel to smuggle the drugs to the U.S. while at the same time he was working with the DEA and working for the Mexican government. So the fascinating part is that he is accused of being sort of a triple agent working at the same time with the Mexican government, with the DEA,

and with El Chapo and the Sinaloa cartel. And at the same time, he was seeing himself like a top spy. So this guy was obsessed, for example, with James Bond. So when he turned 50 years old, he organized a party with James Bond team. And he had like he made his email, for example, his work email was AFI 01. So he was an agent number one of the of the agency that he was leading.

Shocking. Positively shocking. And he was also upset with a lot of things American, for example, he had like a secret basement in his house with a lot of records from Donna Sommer. And he was also upset with CSI. So he received part of the money from the U.S. and he created a show, a TV show that was called The Team. And the TV show was to, like a marriage show. He had his own TV show in Mexico? Yeah, yeah.

They paid up to $11 million to create a TV show. In previous episodes. Dad. Pilar abandoned me. I would like to have a woman like Pilar. You will never stop being what you are. The wife of a federal. And the one helicopter that was donated by the United States to Mexico to fight the war on drugs was in the trailer of the TV show saying, oh, these are the good cops from Mexico that are fighting the war on drugs. And then in 2012, the guy left office,

left the Mexican government, and he moves to Miami to a $3 million house. It was like a super luxury lifestyle. It's hard to believe that you can pay all of that with just, you know, your salary as a public servant. The salary of a public servant in Mexico is less than the middle class salary in any part of the U.S. So I think it's hard to believe that you can afford that. So he was living in Miami all that time after he left office until he was arrested in 2019. So he got a really pretty cool life,

but now he's in jail in Brooklyn. I'm telling you, now you get what I'm obsessed with this guy? More with Penny in a minute on Today Explained. Support for today explained comes from Aura. Aura believes that sharing pictures is a great way to keep up with family. And Aura says it's never been easier thanks to their digital picture frames. They were named the number one digital photo frame by Wirecutter. Aura frames make it easy to share unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame. When you give an Aura frame as a gift, you can personalize it.

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Terms and conditions do apply. Today Explained, we're back with Penny Ramirez talking about Garcia Luna, who's on trial in New York City. I asked her how people in Mexico responded when the super cop was named in the trial of the notorious drug kingpin El Chapo. Well, it was a scandal, you know, it was all over the news. And also because he had really good press at some point. For example, he got a really good profile in The New York Times and said that he was saving Mexico or something like that. So he was kind of a hero, you know, for the media. But at the same time, there were a few people, few journalists in Mexico that were accusing him of, you know, or asking too many accountability questions about him and the money that he had and the businesses that he was doing.

And those people were facing a lot of retaliation. Some of them left the country. Some of them received death threats. And some of them are here now covering the trial. What charges is Garcia Luna facing? Well, he's facing several charges. Most of them are for conspiring with the cartel to bring the drugs. And they're also charging him with lying to the DHS.

Because as he moved to Miami, when he left office in Mexico, he became first a resident. And then he was seeking citizenship, American citizenship. And as you know, when you're trying to become a citizen, you need to respond to a questionnaire. One of the questions is, have you ever committed a crime? And he said, no. And now they're accusing him of lying, saying, oh, yeah, you did. So let's see if they prove it. You've been in the courtroom. What's it like in there? First is a high security case. So the reporters during the jury selection, we weren't allowed to be in the same room where the jury was been selected. The jury will remain anonymous.

So we know their numbers, but we don't know their names. And they're partially sequestered. That means that they have a strict prohibition to read anything, hear anything and listen to anything regarding the trial. So they can listen to this episode softly, but all the people that are not in the jury can. How is Garcia Luna's team defending him? So first, his defense is paid by American taxpayers' money. He's getting a private defender paid by the court so he can say that, oh, I was well represented. And second is a private defender. And the narrative is it's it's another wild part of the story that he was a good cop. taking revenge because he apprehended them and he extradited them.

And now they're just, you know, coming back for him. And the second thing is, oh, he couldn't be corrupt because he was working with the U.S. He was working with the American government. What's the prosecution saying so far? Well, they're saying so far that they will have more than 70 witnesses. So that's huge. That's more way more than a typical trial. They have been delivering to the defense more than a million pages of documents related to the case. So the defense has been trying to go over all these documents to try to find out what's the prosecution's mocking gun,

if they have it. We know that a lot of the witnesses are going to be cooperating witnesses, so people that were with the Sinaloa cartel or with other cartels, and they allegedly knew something about Garcia Luna, and now they're able to testify what they know and, you know, try to get some good treatment from the prosecution on exchange of saying what they know and, you know, try to get some good treatment from the prosecution on exchange of saying what they know. So we are expecting like big, big names in the narco industry and people that were really crucial to understand why this so-called war on drugs has been mostly a failure so far. And I think this is the important part for the U.S. audience,

because I think it is important to say that this is not just a trial of a wild Mexican politician that liked Donna Summer and James Bond and CSI. It's something really American because most of the money that is involved is money from the U.S. taxpayers that went to Mexico to help fight in the war on drugs. But also most of the victims, the victims of the violence are in Mexico. But the victims of the use of these drugs, a lot of people, hundreds of thousands of people dying from overdoses, they're here in the United States. They're not in Mexico. So that's why I think it's important that we tell the story here, because it's not just a story about Mexican politics. So it sounds like the outcome of this trial will mostly just affect Garcia Luna. But has the American government addressed how embarrassing these revelations so far have been?

Oh, of course not. They haven't addressed it at all. Yeah, they have been trying. They have been even trying to prevent the defense from presenting any evidence that Garcia Luna was close to the United States. So, for example, the prosecution asked the Dutch Coggan to prohibit the defense from presenting any evidence that says, oh, Garcia Luna was close to the United States. Here is a picture of him with Hillary Clinton. Here is the award that he received from the CIA. Because as you said, it is embarrassing. For example, Garcia Luna is accused of helping the Sinaloa cartel since 2001. So in 2012, 11 years after that, he received this fancy award from the head of the CIA,

Davis Petrios, saying that, thank you in recognition for your effort and your help to the United States. And, you know, I think that you use the correct word, which is it's embarrassing. When this trial is over, this war on drugs will not be over. But is there a way it could be conducted better in a way to avoid embarrassing incidents like this with Garcia Luna? I would truly expect that after this trial, especially if he's declared guilty, that the United States does a deep revision of their international allies. So how many others Garcia Lunas are out there if he is declared guilty? How many other people the U.S. government is trusting right now with money, with information, with how many people are receiving awards from the U.S. government? And nothing is actually happening because the numbers are really clear.

You keep seeing drugs coming into the border every day. You keep seeing people dying by overdoses of fentanyl, of cocaine every day. So the war is not over because people are still dying for the overdoses in the United States. People are still dying for the violence in Mexico. So I would love to see some accountability regarding not just this guy, but who others, what other people are out there that right now should be fighting the drugs to come in and are not doing it? Does it feel a little bit to you as someone who's been covering this for years and years, like a war that can't be won? And this is just the latest example of a failure to try and get the upper hand in this fight.

Well, I have been thinking about your question for years. It's hard to say that you have an answer because when you go deep in the production side of things, most of my sources, for example, in Sinaloa, are really poor people, that they take a lot of risk to produce the drugs. If you go and interview them, they say, well, if I don't do this, I don't eat. And that's just one side.

That doesn't mean that you justify what they do because it's clearly illegal. But you understand why they do it. That doesn't mean that it's a right, but you understand why they do it. That doesn't mean that it's a right, but you understand why they do it. And the same with the people who transport the drugs, the same with the people who flies the plane with the drugs, the same people that crosses the drugs through the border under a lot of other risk. So when you understand the business, you understand why they do it. So I think that the war on drugs should be reframed. I don't think I am in the capacity of saying that it's unwinnable.

But what I do think is that you can win a war if you are pretending that you are fighting it. And if Garcia Luna is declared guilty, that will mean that he was pretending to be fighting this war on drugs for so many years while he was actually helping the drugs to come in. That was Penny Ramirez along with Maria Hinojosa. She's hosting USA v. Garcia Luna.

The United States in the picture of the drug war, they're doing everything right. They're providing all the money. They're doing all these good things. So if Garcia Luna was working so closely with the United States, there's no way that he could be tainted. I mean, that's what they would say. So one of the reasons why I became obsessed with this story,

like you, is because if you reduce it, you know, it becomes basically true crime meets telenovela. It's a podcast all about this trial, so subscribe to keep up with the story. Our show today was produced by Halima Shah. She had help from Matthew Collette, Laura Bullard, and Paul Robert Mounsey. The rest of the team includes Avishai Artsy,

Hadi Mawagdi, Victoria Chamberlain, Amanda Llewellyn, Miles Bryan, Siona Petros, and Afim Shapiro, who's our director of sound. Amina Alsadi is our supervising producer. Noelle King is my co-host. And we had extra help this week from Jolie Myers. We used music by Breakmaster Cylinder. And no, I'm Hasenfeld. I'm Sean Ramos for him. Today Explained is on the radio in partnership with WNYC, and we are part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Thank you. © BF-WATCH TV 2021 you