Tomorrow - 104: Palm Pre

Episode Date: November 7, 2017

You asked for it, and we're here to deliver. This week on the show, Josh and Ryan boot up a Palm Pre 3, and reflect on what's changed since webOS debuted well ahead of its time. We take your calls about old tech, and look to the future of phones and communication. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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that builds on ubiquitous connectivity, electrified in autonomous vehicles, and a marketplace open to innovation in entrepreneurship. Buy it at MITpress.mit. welcome to tomorrow. I'm your host, Josh, with Topolski. With me, as always, is the lovely and delightful and very friendly Ryan Hullahan. Hello, Josh.

Hi, Ryan, how are you? Welcome to 2010. 2009? 2009. 2009. This is going to be a gadget show, I guess. It's going to be a gadget show where I'm going to talk about things that are... They're not relevant.

I mean, just, I just wanna say this. Gadgets don't fucking matter right now. Okay, there's a lot of bad shit going on in the world. There's a lot of Trump, yeah, Russia, shootings and churches. There's bad people everywhere, they're doing bad things. And your new phone does not fucking matter. Okay, the iPhone X versus the Pixel 2 XL, not significant in any way, shape or form. Just, so you The iPhone 10 versus the Pixel 2 XL, not significant

in any way, shape or form. Just so you know, I want to preface this by saying what we're going to talk about is so largely in just incredibly inconsequential. And yet, you know what, I can't spend all day being sad. And yet that bug, I could be angry for some of the days well. That bug where iOS 11 makes it a space question mark. One of the worst things happening to me right now. It's insane. What is it? How does this bug occur? People are like, I want to send my thoughts and prayers to the families.

It's like you have a Apple bug, a Mario question bar. Any other? All right, so let me just talk about this show a little bit. We have talked about doing a show where I use a poem pre For a week. Mm-hmm. I have a poem pre three here. I'm chargey right now being slides open look at that. So beautiful Little that sliding action there. Can you feeling that there's a little mirror on the back? Wow, okay? Here's the poem pixie. Do you remember this one? Little baby. Take a look. Babies first.

I'm gonna have to try to get that back in. Oh. Little something right there. Here's some messages. I have messages from Laura and like, our friend, my friend Michael Shane. Oh, go through and read them. That's the show.

Look at this. This looks familiar. Yeah, I can't do. I can't screen the size of a book. It's so fucking tiny. It's insane. It's like a Game Boy. Anyhow, so I had the Palm Prix three,

and I was going to bring the iPhone. I bought an iPhone 10 after my rant about how much I hated the notch and how bad I thought Apple was a design. I was like, well, I mean, I was like, could I get one? And then I sort of like, when I discovered I could walk into a store and buy one. I sort of had to do it. iPhone 10, not the 10th iPhone.

Also, it's a edge to edge display, not really edge to edge. Well, it's edge to edge. All the corners are there. It's just as the notch in the middle. Yeah. Anyhow, so the idea for the show is that I would use a palm tree for a week. It's not possible. Not possible.

It's this phone is like beyond, it's nothing works. Not nothing. Except the concepts. Concepts work. The interface, the interface is so great. The servers though. But like it just was not a non-starter. I was like, I just know a way I can do a week.

I mean, what it would be is a week of everybody who I know being mad at me and me failing at business and being miserable. So I didn't do it, but I did spend some time playing around and trying to see what would work and what didn't. Yeah, very little works. You can use the browser, but the browser's completely fucked up. It asked for like certificates for everything.

For everything that I tried to go to, it was like, do you trust this? Do you trust this? Yeah, I'm like, yes, I trust it. It was like glitching out. everything that I tried to go to is like do you trust this do you trust this? Yeah, I'm like, yes, I trust it. It was like glitching out. I mean, it's it's amazing to see I mean when did the Palm pre three come out? I just got notification on it. Um, the pre three was I want to say 2012. It's got notification. Let's say um, and I want to say uh, I just want to say as you know with this show It's a call in show. I'm gonna give you the number now, which I have conveniently forgotten. Hold on.

It's so pro. I'm so professional. 202-688-1697 towards the middle of the show. We'll talk to you guys about your, I don't know what the fuck we'll talk about, but at any rate. So there's a lot going on in technology right now, and none of it's very good if you ask me. And, you know, I thought it would just be fun to, I mean, go back a little bit and look at something

like the pre, which was, you know, my probably one of my favorite devices ever created, and was also an unmitigated disaster. When you were using it at the time though, were you like, I enjoy this, or were you like, this is an novelty, and now I have to get to back to a real phone. It never really got there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like the pre was like, had so many of the raw materials to be amazing. Yeah. Like it had so many things right so ahead of the curve. And yet the

total package was never good enough. It was like there was always something that they were just about to fix that was gonna make it great. I talk about this constantly, constantly, and I breathe. No, and I've brought it up on the show several times that it's the same thing with the sidekick

that I owned every sidekick because it was always gonna be a really good idea. But it never quite, even like this the flippy thing, even it's like the pre-sliding keyboard. It's like, it's good, but it's not the promise that it was in my mind. Well, it turns out that keyboards are not that good. No, turns out, it turns out Steve was right.

It turns out that, you know, look at this, you know, it seems like a good idea, right? But okay, I will say this, I enjoy typing on this more than I enjoy typing on any blackberry. Yeah, I think the keyboards are actually better in a lot of ways. The worst thing that I'm looking back on it was this blackberries with both two letters on each key. And I remember at the time being like, what a great idea.

This works great. I mean, like we're in a bra. Modifiers. Yeah, it was real. No, it wasn't even modifiers. It was like A or it would be like Q, W, E, R, T, Y. And it would just kind of guess what you were going to write. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's kind of guess what you're going to write. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. That's, that's kind of good. But anyway, let's explain the concept of this phone. Yeah, we should talk about the phone. Yeah, I'm going to talk about it. Let me talk about it. If you, for people who don't know, and most people probably don't, I mean, I'm sure diehard Josh fans are like, yeah, the pre, it's all he's been talking about for like eight years.

The pre was a, so I'm like a old school palm fan. I had, my first smartphone was a trio, 650. I like love that phone. I had a turbo graphics emulator on it. I had, it was like my whole, it was the first device, and I've talked about this before, but it was the first thing where I've ever, where I was like, holy shit,

you can have like a computer in your pocket. And I can like do everything on this computer in my pocket. And so I was like a real Palm stand, like I was like really into their shit. And they had this big announcement, I believe it was at CES in 2009, it was like Palm is, this is it, they're a real Mary.

They're a real Mary. And a lot of people, like we wrote, and then gadget me and Ryan and Peter, the other editors wrote this open letter to Palm. Like I had a little bit of involvement with it. I think we ended up having three bylines on there, something, but like we wrote this open letter that was like, here's what we want you to do

to fix your product, so as everybody loved Palm. Anyhow, so they're like, okay, we heard you were going to do something amazing. They launched this phone in 2009 and people were like, or 2008, maybe, I don't remember exactly. It might have been, I don't remember. I do remember that my first appearance on late night with Jimmy Fallon, I took on the pre,

and we did like two segments on it. It was 2009, it was announced. Yeah, we did like two segments on it. I think it was in March I took it on before it was released because it was released in like the summer or something. Which is insane. We spent like, I think we spent like a total like of 12 to 15 minutes of TV time talking about the Paul.

He's just like hilarious to think about now. So the pre-ran, a piece of software called WebOS and WebOS, ChefsCath, WebOS was the kind of basis of the idea for WebOS was that instead of running, the kind of foundation thing was instead of running apps, it would run web apps. You would build your apps in essentially HTML5 and you could put them into packages. This was a very ahead of its time concept, very ultimately correct for a lot of things. And a lot of the backbone of apps that you use are actually HTML apps. And Google has done huge amounts of work to create

a more app experience within the browser, which is now very good. But in 2009, it was not very good. And Apple, by the way, had the same idea. Apple was like, web apps. Yeah, web apps was how they were gonna do their app stores and we all web apps. And that was also a fucking disaster.

They eventually cave and started doing real apps for this, but by then it was like way late in the game. But so it was really notable about this what was really good about the pre is and I'll just show you I'm gonna take this out for a second. I'll probably die immediately But like it had essentially I'm gonna try to do this it had this card system, right? It's a car. So every app was like loaded into a card It used gestures. You could swipe. Okay. I'm not didn't quite get it there You could swipe up to get your you know pop something up in gestures, you could swipe, okay, I'm not, didn't quite get it there.

You could swipe up to get your pop something up in here. I don't know what I'm opening. It's broken. It's just like, essentially what I, it's a voice call app. Yeah, it's exactly what iOS is now. And then you could, you know, so you could move through your apps.

And these are all live, right? So there's a really cool concept. I mean, in 2009, it's talking. It is talking, isn't it? What do you have to say, hold on, Hold on. Wait, wow. This is crazy. Hold on a second. This is like, voice, voice calling app. Hold on a second. Let's see if we can call. This is like, call mom and dad. Call mom common dad.

Call it long off. No. No. It's like everybody's calling my parents. So like, so in the original version, it had this idea that you would like open your apps and cards, you'd flip through the flip into them, you'd go, they'd be live. You could have all the time open. You could like see what was happening. I mean, it's essentially what Android does now with its cards

and it's what iOS does. And in fact, the new, like if you look at the, at the OS, at iOS 11 and the iPhone X, it's very pre-like. Oh, incredibly. I remember wanting it to be, because the app switcher at the time on iOS was the, you double tap, the whole thing would go up and then there would just be icons and you could click to switch. Yeah, they've

had a they've had a bunch of different versions of the switcher. Oh, so they have had the cards for a while, but the cards have never felt like actually like alive. And I have noticed on the new on the 10 like they do seem to be maybe just because the phones fast enough now, but they seem to be a bit faster. I think Android does this the best. I mean, the the in like refresh time or like to come out of a hibernation on Android is much faster, in my opinion. But that's either here or nor there. We can get into it.

But anyhow, so the pre-wizness of it, it has all of these different things that were really amazing. This thing called synergy. Where it was like, still looks good idea. Put your Skype account in, you put your G-Chat account in, you put your Facebook, and it emerges them all together. Facebook, and you could have merged messages, it would merge all the contacts, so you could have like one contact in which show you, now this is commonplace, everybody

does this now, to some degree. I mean, Android certainly doesn't, does iOS do anything on it? Not really, no. They just do like iOS contacts. Just like terrible notifications and iOS. Right, exactly. Um, the notifications were really good. It had actionable notifications.

And they popped up from the bottom. I was going to be clear. It was so ahead of its time, like a notification would pop up in version one. A notification pop up. It would like reduce the size of your screen a little bit. It was like very non non obtrusive or in obtrusive or whatever the fucking word is. And then you could like take action on it. Like there were you could do things within the notification.

You could clear it. You could reply. You could go to the app were, you could do things within the notification. You could clear it, you could reply, you could go to the app. You could play, you could play your music in the notification. It was very, very advanced. And it was all gesture-based. It still looks really good.

Yeah, but anyhow, it was, it was, it was ahead of its time, but like the hardware wasn't good. Software was sluggish. There was no, and it wasn't developed. Nobody made apps for it. I remember that it would sync with iTunes, and I remember thinking like, oh, well, like, get it.

But the iTunes is a hack. It was a hack, which Apple killed. They would like, I'm like so excited about it. I remember that it would sink with iTunes and I remember thinking like, oh, well, like, get it. But the iTunes is a hack. It was a hack that which Apple killed. They would like, I'm like, so excited about it. Apple, Apple released a statement. They were like, we will defend ourselves. It's like we have the weapons to attack. Here's how old it is. Okay. They were like, you can sink your pre with iTunes. You can get downloaded your songs off of iTunes or your rocker. You know, it's not to long ago. I feel like I tried the picks here one of these like a year or two ago and like Spotify was still working on it. Spotify fucking dead on these cannot get them to work at all. But the fact that Spotify was on them at all

is actually really impressive. Anyhow, so, so Paul was a disaster. But Matthias Duarte is the guy who, Matthias Duarte who is now like the VP of design at Google who's responsible for all of the modern Android design. Yeah. Unsurprisingly, he's the guy who sort of spearheaded the OS. And anyhow, it was a tragic product.

They gave it, they flew too close to the sun. You know, and their wings melt. Well, you kind of pushed them. You can push them too soon. They like, what happened is they tried to fly to the sub and they jumped off the edge of the building and then just fell to the ground and died towards the sun. What happened was they tried to fly to the sun, but they jumped off the edge of the building, and then just fell to the ground and died on the pavement. But it was like, what a good jump.

Their wings didn't even get to melt. It was a good time of day to jump. Everything else was set up. The jump looked incredible. They looked like they were going to take off towards the sun. We were like, oh, anyhow. So the idea was, I get one of these out and use it for a week.

It was just like not a long time. I have a kid and I have a business and like jeopardizing my kid and business. Like if I need to like something's happening, it's an emergency. Yeah. Like I don't want to be like, or if there's an amazing photo opportunity. I should just say the cameras on these are, you know, very bad. I was going to take out my old touchpad because they made an iPod, iPad that was the touchpad. They made, I have a touchpad. I was going to out my old touchpad because they made an iPod I iPad that was the touchpad

I have a touchpad I was gonna take it out and I said to my fiance I was like I I'm gonna I can do nowhere the touchpad is and he said no Remember we hacked it and installed Android on it and that was such a damning statement and then I said do know where it is anyway I'll put web OS on it and he said you gave it to a child and I went all great stuff This is good stuff. Here's what you get here's what I'm seeing it. Oh, you gave it to a child. I went, oh. Great stuff. This is good stuff. Here's what I'm seeing in case you're wondering. These beautiful photos. These are great photos.

Here's some pictures in the photo. We're all, that's really beautiful. Picture of you talking. You can see our monitor. Pinch to zoom works great. Just like you've got it. He's not handsome, fella. I don't know.

It's pixelated over here. Listen, you can call into the show. I'm gonna pick up your telekate. If you'd like and just tell us about your favorite old phone or what you thought about the pre. Camera's not that bad actually. The number's 202, 688, 1697. Yeah, I knew it was going to be my new wallpaper.

Oh, you get that. Just Ryan, his eyes closed. It's like you look like you're belting. Like you've got an amazing melody that you're just it's a real crunchy photo. It's not that it focused on the microphone instead of your face. It looks like. All right, let's go to Nicholas from San Francisco. Nicholas from San Francisco. You're on and we're talking about really nerdy shit. What's up, my man? Nothing much. Hello. I brought a palm tree my first year of school in like 2013. Because I was like, ah, there's one on shopgidwool.com for $30. I'll bid on this thing.

Yeah. And I expected to be able to go into a sprint and like activate it. I was two different sprint stores and they basically laughed me away. Would not activate this phone for me. They were like, we'll give you another phone for free. So like, we're begging you, please don't make us do this. So what happened? They could activate it. Yeah, they wouldn't. I'm sure they could.

Like, I didn't think there was any reason why they couldn't. Because I figured that like the 3G bands were still up in 2013. Yeah, I feel like they should have been able to do it. They just wouldn't, they refused to do it. They're like, we're not gonna put on, they also said no. I know you haven't removed the Y-Max connection. Yeah, they're like, they're like,

you're gonna put like, literally hundreds of people in jeopardy of having to do tax support on this. Like, you know, you'd call and you'd be like, yeah, I'm not getting a say no and it's like, they gotta go, they gotta to raise it to what is the tier? It's like tier three. Supervisor. So whatever it is, there's a guy on the phone. It's like, we'll cut a phone. It's like,

a pre. Okay. Well, fuck you. They're like, sir, we'll, we'll buy the string if you want to connect these cans. He's like, I'm sending you my old iPhone right now. So wait, so what happened? What did you do with it? Nothing, I just like used it. I wrote a review for my like a journalism class and then now it just fits in a desk somewhere. Yeah, well, yeah. That's very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, home, and I was like, I know I have a pre in here somewhere. And it was like such a treasure hunt. And I have an, I have the original sprint pre.

I have, I think somewhere I have the pre two, which was like a weird abortion of a phone. Like they were like, yeah, maybe kind of like a, and then they they sold to HP. This is actually an HP phone. I mean, this last iteration is, yeah, I mean, it actually is the best of the pre's that they made. It's like pretty solidly made, but it's still, you know, it actually is the best of the prees that they made. It's like pretty solidly made, but it's still, you know, like the parents. Well, the minute that HP potted, I was like, oh, I don't know what's going to happen here. Everyone's like, oh, they've got financial backers.

But those backers are HP. Well, people don't fucking remember, but Jimmy Iaveen, before his dance with Apple, he was at the palm launch for HP, the launch of the touch pad and the pre-three. And he was like, these guys know what they'd have to do, shout. They got that. They have the right idea. Like, he literally was up there. Like, I've been trying to find a company that'll work with me. And I finally found, like, you don't fucking talk about that in the documentary. You don't hear about that in the Apple documentary about Jimmy Iveen. You know, he's like, he's like, I've, you know, I'm always been a creator

and this and that. And then I found apples. Like, okay, but where remember when you were working with HP on their fucking laptops? Yeah. And they were like, we put a special chip in there. So you can really hear it. He's like, you're born this way. It's 2011, by the way. Yeah, he's like, he had the stuff. Was that of the same thing? What did we like? The same one that was the veer? It was basically the same as the pre, it was just small for no reason.

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It was like a pixie, it was like the pixie pre, yes, the veer was so tiny. And I remember talking to John Rubenstein. Why would you make that product? So, you know, the other thing we should say is that, is that Palm, Palm to John Rubenstein. Why would you make that product? So, you know, the other thing we should say is that, is that Palm, Palm hired John Rubenstein, who was a, was a product guy from Apple. He was like the Phil Schiller in the era of the iPod.

And he worked on the iPod. And I think he may be also worked on the original iPhone. And he was, became like the Steve Jobs of Palm. He was like the guy, you know, because anybody who left Apple, like they could just automatically be like, you know, he put him in some smaller cup and it's like, yeah, guys the Steve Jobs of Palm. He was like the guy, you know, because anybody who left Apple, like they could just automatically be like, you know, you put him in some smaller cup, and it's like, yeah, guys are these jobs. I'm writing the book about it, as it happened.

John's actually a very smart guy, and I'm not trying to diss him at all, but like, I find him to be really charming and interesting, but like, he loved these small phones. Like, when they brought out the pixie, I'm like, and he's a big, he's big. He's like, he's like six two or something. I mean, I'm six four, but he was like pretty tall and

I'm like why the fuck are you making these tiny phones? And he's like I love these. I love this phone. We talking about this is great He also like yeah, I mean anyhow little zoolander phone. I mean, it's fucking crazy like my daughter Zelda saw this I mean just can we just get a visual. I know like just I want to put it in perspective here This is a phone that was released for adults They actually actually have the size of your thumb. They had a really good ad. It is, I mean, it's almost the screen is. Yeah. Oh, it's crazy. They had a really good ad for this phone, though. I don't know if you remember. Wait, the original pre ads because the pre ads, the original pre ads were very bad. And we should talk about that very bad. We should let the caller go. And that's just anything else about your pre that we should

know. No, that was it. All right. Well, that's a great anecdote. Great memory. Thank you very much for that. The pre had these crazy ads with like a tell the Swinton kind of like a poor man. I'm a genderless computer. Yeah. Like a poor man told a Swinton was like the star of the ads and they were like, they were like, she was mostly collarbone.

Yeah, there she is. There's all the collarbones, McGee. Remember, remember, Tarsim, the director? Actually, did he direct these? I don't know. Let's look. He's a question. Tess lives.

This is cool. All right. So we're seeing a very pale woman with no eyebrows talking about like philosophical concepts. And then, you know, and then the show. Not the teacher. I mean, there's no way to describe this. You just need to go on YouTube and search for Palmpread Weird Lady and you'll find it. I actually don't think this. Can we see that ad?

Sorry. Can I just hear the audio from the beginning of that ad? I want to hear what she's saying. Can we get that at sorry can I just hear the audio from the beginning of that ad I want to hear what she's saying could we get that going I was talking with my friend about reincarnation I can't remember your past lives was her ultimate question past lives I left before this I couldn't even keep track of all the ones that I'm living. She's got a lot more issues than a phone is gonna sell.

This is a fucking cool ad actually. I have decided. This is a crazy ad. Can we book her for the outline? Yeah, no, what's she doing now? I don't know, but I will say that's a crazy phone ad to rock. Yeah, I don't know, but like, but I will say that's a crazy phone ad to rock. Yeah, it is. Especially when Apple's with at the time was running like, you know, people dancing or something be like the iPhone. It's got. What was the iPhone? What was the iPhone ad?

What's the first iPhone ad you can remember? The first iPhone ad that I can remember, I don't know. The first one I remember is the phone, where everybody's answering the phone, they're like, oh, and then it's like, it's here. Yeah. I don't know how much they ran that. I don't know how much they ran that. I remember this is so weird.

I remember the hand, the hand model. That was holding the iPhone because there's a lot of controversy about the hand. Because it was a huge hand. I think it'd been Photoshop. Yeah, there's a lot of hand controversy. Anyhow, but the pixie ad, how to song, I wanna say the song was called Sleepyhead. Ohhow, but the, but the pixie ad had a song. I want to say the song was

called Sleepyhead. Oh, yeah. By song. Who is the band? Sleepyhead. Passion pit. Passion pit. Can we get, can we find the poem pixie ad? Because I remember this being, I was like, this is a fucking cool ad and they did a really good job with this. And I don't know if apparently John saying they can't play stuff on the fly right now, which a John our engineer, which I highly recommend. I consider that to be a family of a personal family of John. And just get the experience. Okay. He says he literally says they fucked up.

Is everything okay in there, John? We're going to turn around and it's going to be like, this is going to be blood splatter all over the walls and yeah, seriously, um, speaking of philosophy, we have Renée from Chile who wants to ask us if it's even possible to live without a smartphone. Let's hear it. Hello, hey, yeah, just wondering like our modern world and our lives have been so deeply shaped by, you know, the smartphones were used to use. So it seems like you had some really big trouble using that old phone because it's just impossible. Yeah. Well, I think it's, I think it, I think it, what I've discovered,

and I've thought a lot about this because I have these bouts where I go, you know, obviously I'm hugely nerdy, but I also have found lately, and I think it's partially because of the news and partially because of just fatigue, like technology fatigue, that I think, I start thinking,

like, what would it be like if I'd lived differently? Like, if I didn't look at Twitter, I mean, if I wasn't... Think different. No, if I didn't, if I stopped looking at Twitter and Facebook, if I, you know, used email only for business related things, if I, you know, was very, you know, if I was like, you know, basically lived without a smartphone, and I think it, you know, it basically lived without a smartphone,

and I think it can be done, but I think at this point, you are making a philosophical and life decision that isn't about like, this device or that device. I think that, you know, we have like our lives are just shaped around smartphones right now. Like, it's just like that. No, it's true.

I mean, the way people interact, but even deep, at deeper levels, I've been thinking a lot about the way we perceive ourselves and the way we look now. I mean, in some ways is very much like, how will I be seen on social media? Like, what will I look like? There's so much like second guessing

and so much prep for being, like, think will I look like? There's so much like second guessing and so much prep for being, like, think about this. My daughter, I have photos of her from the time that she literally from the moment she was born till yesterday that are, I mean, I have thousands and thousands and thousands of photos of her, and her entire life has been documented up into this point.

My wife has thousands and thousands of photos. We weren't, as kids, that did not happen. There's a book of photos somewhere and there's a couple hundred photos of me probably in existence that people took when I was a kid. And just even something like that changes the way you interact. I find myself looking at my phone when I'm hanging out

with my daughter and I'm like, why am I doing this? Or instead of doing something with her, I'm like, let me take a picture of this because I can because it's sitting there. Yeah, and it's totally like a, like a suicide, suicide, sorry, my English is very good, but like it doesn't say anything. Yeah, no, it's very, it's very, it's, it's, are, like if we raised a kid that didn't have any access to phones, like, he would totally be able to live a normal life. Like, but we sort of, like this unparalleled access and this sort of unrestrained access to technology.

And no, I mean, in that, and I think, the sort of slave to technology. I mean, I think that's true in a lot of ways. I also think that, you know, and this is something I've been thinking a ton about, I mean, we have really given so much power to engineers to decide how technology should be, how it should be part of our lives. And I think this is the limit. Yeah. And I think this is really like something that we have to start considering. I mean, you look at the Russia news stuff and the fake news and all this shit. That's like a small

little part of it. But like, when you think about the idea that Google and Facebook and Twitter and all these other companies are going like, what's the way that we can get you to use our product as much as possible without stopping? They're not thinking like, what can we do for you? I mean, there may be a byproduct of it. That's like, what can we do for you? There's no thing about the consequences of what they do. Because if everything you just focus on like getting as much traction and as much as much

user time as possible, you forget about the consulate. You forget that. Exactly. On the other end, there are people who are affected by what you do. It's like, yeah, it's like, sorry, if I get a gift of topic, but like here in Chile, we're about to have presidential elections and we're seeing a lot of the same stuff that we saw on the US presidential election. Like candidates using bots to sort of spread, you know, misinformation, for certain candidates or. Yeah. Hello. Hello.

Oh, do we cut out there? Yeah. Here's a there. Okay. Hello. We just, I think we lost her name. No, he's on. No, we just lost him. We lost him. Yeah. Oh, here's a there. Okay. Hello. Oh, we just, I think we lost her, and I, no, he's on. No, we just lost her. We lost her. Yeah.

Oh, okay. Well, I will say this. I totally see that, and I wonder like, yeah, though that, like, news has reshaped. Um, conversations and like, how we get, how we understand the world and all of that. But I will also say, I think it also reshapes how you think. Yes. Because if I go to a concert, and I see people on their phones, I will say to friends, like, someone is videotaping this much better

than our cheap seats. There's no, you're never gonna look at this again or fireworks. Like, you're never gonna look at a photo of fireworks. No, no, this is something I always think, like when you're... But it's compulsive when you're in a moment, this idea of, I feel like I've talked about this before,

but you know, watching somebody at a show, being at the show, holding their phone up, shooting it the whole time. And then so they can go home and, or go to us Facebook and put it on Facebook and be like, I was at the show. And then like, they're like, having a memory of a thing that they actually were never even a part of. Yeah. They're like, remember this? It's like, no, you don't remember it because you were busy thinking about what your video of the, of the concert looked like while you were busy thinking about what your video of the concert looked like while you were at the actual show. I just went to Disneyland and thought the entire time,

like I just found myself thinking, like, oh, that's an Instagram, that's an Instagram. And I posted like 90 and I could just think, like back, like, it was a blur. I wish my phone was taken away from me and that I couldn't, because what am I gonna photograph at Disneyland that hasn't been photographed before? I mean, the truth is,

I mean, it's up to us at this point. I mean, it really is up to humanity. And I've actually tried to cut back in some ways. And I, look, I'll tell you something, Twitter, like there was a day where I was like, okay, I can't handle it anymore, I'm installed it for my phone. And then I finally caved like, you know, six hours later, I was like, okay, I can't handle it.

I mean, but I put, I used to have Twitter on my home screen, like as close as I could to my thumb, to my email, to whatever. Yeah. And I put it in a folder and I have to say just having it in a folder without its presence in front of me. All the time. I find that I use it last now. Like I look at it, last, and I'm less aware of it.

And I think the same is true of Facebook, I've had it in a folder, I barely open it. And I think that like, we really need to start figuring out for ourselves, like, what is the vital thing that you need and is useful to you and is meaningful to you? And what is the thing that is actually a fucking distraction? So you're saying what we need really is Twitter moments? No, I'm not saying that.

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Okay, let's get back to the show. Back to the Pompry, we have Evan Rogers online. Okay, you want to talk about synergy. Okay, Evan, let's talk about synergy. Let's go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hi. Hi. Yeah. So you have talked about synergy before. You guys have both, I think on the last one, or maybe one before that,

talked about unified messaging on Windows phone. I kind of wanted to pick your brain Josh because you were a little older than Iowa is in 2001 when the FCC forced A.O. and semester to be accessible through at least one other client. And so clearly at some in our history, we believed in, you know, regulating communication platforms and specifically as they kind of like, you know, in terms of end user products, you know? Yeah.

How was our, how was technology different at that time? And do you think that our just culture generally would benefit from regulation of like I message and Facebook Messenger and all these companies that are deliberately trying to lock you in into a messaging and communications plan? I think this sort of speaks to some of what we were talking about just a second ago, but like you know the goal for these companies is lock-in, right? I mean, the one thing, so I've been thinking, I actually talked about this, I was gonna bring it,

and I forgot like an idiot, I was gonna bring, I bought this iPhone 10, and I was gonna, I was gonna, I was gonna maybe gonna open it on the show and talk about it. But one of the things, like, as I've been going through my, like, reasons why I would switch to the iPhone, right? I'm like, I really like, I have a Pixel 2 XL,

I think it's a fucking excellent phone. And honestly, I think it's got a lot of shit for its green that is completely unwarranted. It's like, antenna gate all over again. But it's a very good phone. I'm having trouble. I have a note eight. I've been playing with it.

I'm like, I don't want to switch to that. Mm-hmm. So when I go through the things about, like, I mean, I literally started making a pros and cons list because I'm a huge loser. But like, I message is the one at the top of the list where it's like, well, getting back on I message would be nice because my mom uses it,

my dad uses it, my brother uses it, my sister-in-law uses it, obviously Laura uses it, and it's like, but here's the thing, that's what it's for. Like, they hijacked your phone number so they could lock you into it. It's like BBM, you know? It's like now everybody's in this like club.

And if you're not in the club, like there's all these things you can't do, but also like you can, I can switch my phone whenever I want. And there's, and like, so I think about like, you know, the goal of these companies is to lock you in. I mean, Evan, to talk about regulation, I mean, the government does,

is now we're starting to hear about. You see these hearings that have been happening with Twitter and Facebook and Google. Like, the government is starting to see how technology can impact people's lives directly and in ways that is harmful, but they're so fucking behind the curve in terms of their understanding of the technology that like, I don't think we're anywhere close to them being able to say, you know, this should be regulated. Also, with Apple and with iMessage, they don't have we're anywhere close to them being able to say, you know, this should be regulated. Also, with Apple and with iMessage, they don't have the market share.

I mean, in order to regulate something like that, you basically have to prove that there's a monopoly, right? You have to say, well, there's no other option. And Apple would say, look, there's a million other ways you can message people. We put WhatsApp on our platform. We put group me on our platform. There's a thousand different messaging platforms

and like, you can use any one of them. We just, this is ours, right? Yeah. So it would only be a situation where if they had 90% of the market that it became a real issue, but it is an issue in ways that are that is that are felt by users, you know, I mean, I mean, Apple does all sorts of lock in like this, but I would. Sorry, wait. Yeah.

So it's not a, it's not a monopoly thing you're saying. So like we would have to have like a different category. We it's not a monopoly thing you're saying. So we would have to have a different category. We're not in a monopoly. No, you want to talk about a fucking monopoly. I just read a great sort of data story about growth on the internet, post 2014 growth on the internet. I think this stat now is something like 60% of all internet traffic is Facebook and Google related.

It's like on a Facebook or Google related service, meaning like WhatsApp, YouTube, Google search, whatever, you know, AMP, Facebook, the app, that to me is monopoly. That's a do-opily right now. And I actually think like for the future of the internet and the future of new businesses and the future of how we get information and learn about things and communicate with one another, it is, I think we have to get into a pretty serious fucking conversation in this country and in other countries about how we regulate how much of the internet they're allowed to have.

Like Ben Thompson actually wrote, sorry, I know. Ben Thompson actually wrote, I don't know if you get Stratekari, the newsletter, but it's a good newsletter. Everybody should subscribe to it. But he wrote a piece about Facebook by Tbh, which is this teen app for like doing polls. And you know, they're basically like scurding regulation by paying like the minimum amount they need to pay for it, so

that they don't get scrutinized by the government. But Facebook is actively working on a monopoly, and they are not hiding it. They're not being sneaky about it. It's pretty out in the open. And I think that's a really fucking huge problem for the future of humanity, and not just for America, but there are places, there are countries

where Facebook has taken such a massive footprint of their traffic that it's frankly, it's fucking dangerous because Facebook should not be responsible for all of the world's information. Like they do not know how to handle it. Well, here's what I would say is that you said earlier in the show you were talking about how like gadgets don't matter now. And I agree and I don't agree. I think that this particular gadget in Gismos of Plenty don't really matter, but what does matter is that it's so much more tied to our real lives.

So when you look at something like Amazon, Amazon, it's an monopoly in some ways, but it's not so much that it's an monopoly. It's that it's a lock-in, it's so strong. And they have products of every kind that they can slightly reduce the price just enough. And they have whole foods. And I love. I love it. I've been using jet for a couple of things. Pretty good. I mean, they could legitimately compete. I think Walmart bought them. Yeah. Right. Okay. So that's true. But so I guess what I was saying about the gadgets don't matter thing. I'm saying like if you have a note eight or a pixel or an iPhone, it's like who doesn't they all do the

same thing. They're all really good. They all will get you where you want to go. I mean, I've used all of the phones. But wherever you're going is to Amazon Web Services. But that's the, and this is something I've talked about for a while and like I've been thinking about for a while, which is like, it's not about the gadgets. It's not about like what screen it has or how fast it is or whatever.

That stuff is like, it matters, but only in a way that's like, if you're aware of the performance of something, like it might be a problem for you, right? If it seems slow to you, then that's an issue. But like the reality is, most people are like, my phone is fine. Unless they have an iPhone and they upgrade it to iOS 11. In the case, everybody I've talked to is like,

my phone is a complete fucking dumpster fire. But I found no problems on my iPhone 7, by the way, just for the record. But the thing to think about is gadgets do matter in so far as they are the portals through which we live our digital lives. And how we use them is the thing that's interesting and how these things affect us.

That's what's interesting. So when I say gadgets don't matter, what I mean, I don't mean like, it's not, they're not important. But like a review of one phone versus another phone to me, could not be. An emoji are not breaking.

An emoji is a great example of a thing that's like, I mean, if that's Apple's version of the future, it's like an infantilized shit piece of a future that like I'm not interested in. And I don't wanna, I'm not trying to like ruin people's fun. Like have all the fun you want, but like you're a fucking baby. If you're like, if you're spending your time doing karaoke. We're just trying to get some of that sweet, sweet snap.

Yeah, they just want, yeah, no, but I mean, like I see people on Twitter like doing this like animoji karaoke and it's like, that's fine. You can do that, but like you're doing what like 14 year olds do. Well, thank you for calling. Yes, Evan. If any parting thoughts?

No, no, I was in the fact that I'm coming from inside the building that is shutting down A.O. on some messenger, but you guys later. Okay, bye. Bye. I assume he's at the end gadget office, but what he's going to tell us. Okay, that's a great. That certainly led to a rant. I think that's a good thing.

So, yeah, so I actually think this is the interesting part, like as I think about technology now, there's that bigger picture stuff that's really interesting to me, and there is actually, I think, our behavior, and for a while, I started thinking a lot about this, like around the Google Glass and the Apple Watch era, which was like a few years ago, I guess like three,

maybe two, three years ago, three years ago, let's call it. And like everybody was like, we're so distracted by our devices, like we're gonna make things that will make you less distracted, you know? And putting them directly on your eyeballs. And like neither one of them actually did it. I mean, Google Glass ended up being a non-starter, like they never really took the project

to where they said they were gonna take it to. And the watch is completely bullshit to me. I mean, everybody I knew as a watch is like, oh, I turned off all the notifications. I literally only used it to get specific notifications. Yeah, like, it doesn't, did my mom text me. Right, yeah, like, I know people use it as a fitness band and that's great, like, if you wanna track your fitness.

But like, but what the truth is about it is we need to change. We have not, technologies move so quickly and there have been so many minute engineer decisions made about technology that we're still playing catch-up. Most people are still playing catch-up, right? Which is why the fake news thing is a thing and why Facebook is caught off guard by, I mean, there's part of it, you can go,

oh, they don't care, oh, this is good for their business, but there's a big part of it. It's like, Facebook cares, but didn't understand it. You know, like, I think they're a part of it. I think they did understand some of it, but they didn't understand how to fix it. And it was like, if you don't have a fix, don't bring it up, it's a problem.

Well, part of the problem with these, with these free speech platforms, like Facebook and Twitter is like, they're like, they come from these like, you know, these technologists who have these like, interesting like Facebook and Twitter, is like, they come from these technologists who have these interesting libertarian views that are like, everybody, every man for himself, we're gonna just give you a platform and you go do it and it's like,

oh, but actually, there's a bunch of dominant rich voices here that drown out the other voices. And if you don't have an engineering solve to fix that, you end up with fucking Richard Spencer with the blue check mark next to his name, because you don't fucking care if somebody's spouting not literally Nazi ideology to minorities. You know, it's like, you don't get it,

you don't understand it, you can't see it and you can't fix it, right? Obviously those are huge problems, but also, I don't, I think with Twitter, it's actually malicious. I think with Twitter, they know that their business rests on Nazis and trolls. I actually believe firmly, and I would love to fucking talk to Jack about this.

I believe firmly that if you were to remove the trolls and the Nazis and the bots from Twitter, their business would crater. I mean, I really think that it would be a very different looking business. I saw a report that was like 230 Facebook accounts are fakes or duplicates, and I was like, it's way more than that on Twitter. How many? 230 million. Oh, 30 million way more than that on Twitter. How many? 230 million. Oh, 30 million.

Yeah. I mean, Twitter, as far as I'm concerned, Twitter might as well be 60% off. But the thing is, is that people are funding it too by like paying to have bots follow them. No, no, no, it's the whole thing is a disgusting mess. I mean, look, the internet is super fucked up right now. And actually, somebody wrote a great piece

that I just read called, it's called, there's something wrong with the internet. And it is largely about baby videos, about videos, which we wrote about these, like knock off Peppa Pig videos. Actually, can somebody find that link for me so I can say who the writer is? Eric shared it in one of our slacks

so you can find it. But anyhow, in the meantime, he has my Peppa Pig. But Peppa Pig, like, you know, we wrote, Laura wrote about this because we actually noticed Zelda was like watching her, her, her, her, his name is James Bridal. Something is wrong on the internet. It's on medium. And if he wants to be published on a real website,

James, we're ready. We're here for you. Hey, hey, don't come for the claps system. But, yeah, it's got, it's, honestly, it doesn't have as many claps as it should. It's got 12,000 claps, not enough claps. I don't fucking get this. Anyhow, but the point is, like, there's, we have, like, we spent a lot of time on the wrong things on the internet. That's how I feel.

Like, we spent a lot of time on, like, figure out how you could get, like, super likes or whatever, like, fucking promote your post-up or get likes I feel. Like, we spend a lot of time on like, figure out how you could get like super likes or whatever, like fucking promote your post-op or get likes and subs. And like, people liking things is the wrong motivation. Like, what do you do with that? But it's also bullshit. Like, we need a gold standard for like, we made this thing into a popularity contest

and it's a game. And if it's a game, it can be game. And that's what's happened. Like, people who are with money, who are smart and who have bad, bad can be gameed. And that's what's happened. Like, people who are with money, who are smart, and who have bad, bad intentions, have gameed these systems. I know you don't like bad black mirror,

but this is sounding a lot like a part of the set for a black mirror. But it's not a fucking plot of black mirror, it's reality. That's what bothers me about black mirror. It's like, what if the internet fucked us all up? But it's like the internet did fuck us all up. Speaking of, here's Ben from Indianapolis. He's still using a Sony Ericsson.x and okay bad i want to hear about this

you're using a sony ariksen please tell me what what model it's a sony ariksen i know you ten a wait i know can you spell that for me a i n o a i n o you ten a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a and a I'm into this it's a vertical slider. It's it's got a touchscreen hell. Yeah This is a It is a capacitive touchscreen. Okay 240 by 432 got that beautiful PSP interface It's got GPS so it's got Google Maps on it. It does what the Java the Java version It's J2 and me. Yeah, that still still works the J2ME version of Google Maps still works

Indeed, oh my god. I Wrote a four square app to let me check in in Java. Me. It was a real or Jtme. What do you call it with a real pain? The butt that's how important that's how important checking in on fairs four square was to you oh yeah it's the most it's got Facebook still makes an app that works for it no offer many works on it so you can do tweets what's the what's it can you tell me how's the camera garbage why why what do you use for music Spotify? Can you do Spotify on it? Now I use Google music whatever but you know how do you use it on this? Yeah you don't you put in three on it man. I'm loving this. Yeah, yeah. What do you do for a living in M.D. What is your profession? I'm a developer and an analyst for a financial services company.

I was going to be like, I just like to call them from you, just life with this phone. This is a really good narrative. So why are you using this phone? So it works. I can drop it and it doesn't break. I think that some of the insightful things that are earlier about how, I mean, yeah, I could theoretically do all of that, but it's just enough of a pain

that I'm not constantly looking at it. This is like putting a lock on your refrigerator. I was just gonna say, it's like when people get their mouths out of the chat and they're like, I could drink a steak. Right. Or like, you put like a lock with a, you know, a combination or something, you're like,

I gotta do the lock. Like, I don't know you know. But this is interesting. You know a battery life. Sorry, go ahead. The battery life is really good. The battery life, like I go most of a week before I have to recharge it.

Now, trying to recharge it means that I have to find some crazy proprietary USB cable, but you know. But you have the cable left. But you got your sim in there, and you're using this as your daily driver. Yeah, this is my daily driver. Okay, so I've thought about getting this, have you seen this phone?

It's called the Punk to MP01, P-U-N-K-T. So I've thought for a long time, I really want this phone. First of all, I think it's fucking cool looking, but it is like a can of our phone with like this really beautiful streamline interface. It's so dope looking. It looks like a calculator. And you need to have like a T-Mobile 2G plan. The only network it'll work on in America is like a T-Mobile old school 2G. It has nothing, no internet. I mean, it

has no Wi-Fi. Josh, this doesn't even look like a like daily like, you know the little planners or you're a type of planners? Or is what I want? This is what I want. This is what I'm gonna use in my phone. But I think it's very much to Ben, right? To Ben's point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, you can't do the shit.

Like you literally are just brick walled from it. Like, you're not gonna be able to use the punked MP01. I literally have it in my Amazon cart. I've been like hovering over buying this for so long. It's like $300. So expensive. So you didn't spend a thousand miles on a phone. You don't want it. It's incredible, but the deal is, you know, once in a while, you do need like the GCF or something like that. And for the ass of the like, right, exactly. I just get the exit.

I'm just going to get the idea, leave the iPhone in for the D. Yeah, right. You have GPS if you need is what you're saying. Yeah. Can you do, but Google, tell me about Google Maps. Can you, can you like, can you look at it? Can you do like, walking directions in Google Maps? Does it have like new features?

Yeah, I think it was up there. Yeah, I would have to like, I'm going to look away from me and like try and dig through it. But I think it's a few years old. It's a few years old, but it still works with the same interface. It does driving directions. It does, I think it does walking. I know it does transit, not very well, but it does. It shows traffic and stuff on the map.

And it does streaky as well. Yeah, oh, does streaky, you see, this to me sounds a lot like when people say that they're going without sugar. Conceptually, I love that idea. I'm never not going to have sugar. It's just not going to have that. It's like cutting carbs out of your nose.

It's not going to happen. I just need to be honest. I can't do it. You can do it. I can't do it. Just drink a lot of dye coke. That's what I've. I just need to be honest. I can't do it. You can do it. I can't do it. Just drink a lot of die coke. That's what I've been doing. Well, Ben, this is super interesting.

Thank you for your comments. I think this is like a really fascinating look into a person who's actually living the dream. Well, is it the dream? I don't know what it's your dream. I don't know what it is. It's got this thing in your cart from 300. I want something.

Yeah, I want something else. Like, I have this vision of like a more manicured version of minimalism. You have a minute, the thing knows when I need to see something and when I don't. And otherwise it doesn't bother me. Some kind of assistant to. I want a person. I imagine Jeff Goldblum has a person like this. They will come in and be like Jeff,

there's an article, an article on Twitter about you that you should check out or something. You know, it's like a good one. And then like the rest of the time, I'm thinking about Jeff Goldbloom because there's a story about him in GQ about how he has it all, which I think is true. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for this. This is really, that super interesting look at him. I always sometimes think, minimalism is just another way to show off.

You have the wealth to it. Minimalism is bullshit. So I just want to say, I think this whole minimal aesthetic, which by the way, all the Apple stands are like, it's a little bit minimal, it's like, cleaning, gray, and white, and web 2.0. It's like, that's old, that's fucking old. Like to me, that shit looks like,

like people, whenever I wrote this Apple's bad design, because I actually think they really are, not just the notch, but a lot of other things, but people were like, it says the guy with the squiggly lines on his website, and it's like, you know what, the squiggly lines are so fucking in the future that you don't understand them right now.

Like you're stuck in 2008, that's your problem, okay? You're so 2000 and late. You 2000 and late, that's exactly. But like you look at something like the Dropbox redesign, people are like, this is disgusting. No, no, the Dropbox redesigns fucking cool. It's cool. You just have bad taste. Like you just like things that at something like the Dropbox redesign people are like this is disgusting. No, no, the Dropbox redesign is fucking cool. It's cool. You just have bad taste.

Like you just like things that Apple's like this is the thing that you should like. And it's the only thing you should like. It's that pendulum and we're swinging hard into the 70s. It's just like, no, it's just like, it's just like, let's swing hard into some fucking design. Let's swing hard into like, like, call it. It's not, it's not having the absence of choice. I'm just saying that.

You look at these, you look at this, that. You look at this idea of minimalism. And it's like, I'm a guy who loves mid-century furniture, but just a point where you're like, all right, enough with the fucking mid-century shit. There's a point everywhere with it's enough with being minimal and everything being clean and clean lines. I don't want to live in the movie.

I can't think of a good movie to, is like an example of this, but. You don't want to live in a balanced void. No, I don't live in the set of the fucking end of 2001. Like it looks cool, but like it probably isn't that comfortable. You know, sometimes you just want like a soft coat, sofa to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, Like I said, I ultimately think a lot of minimalism or like not owning things or having like no design choices just as it's in as true so as possible is to say like look how sleek it is. There's nothing offensive. Like it's clean, but then you didn't make any choices. It's right. I rather a messy pattern that you pick. That's right.

I think there's a lot of fear in cleaning a minimal design. I think there is a lot of like it's also a lot of like me too, is it right? It's like, you can't be wrong if it looks like everything else. It's also a lot of like me too, is it right? It's like, hmm, you can't be wrong if it looks like everything else. Well, right? I would prefer a wallpaper over a white wall any day of the week. All right. Coming up, we have a gene from Chicago. Powerful. Hi. It wants to know if we think smartphone design has a rest. Hello, hi. How are you? Hi. What's your, what have you got for us?

I just wanted to ask, how do you guys think we've regressed from the old phones? Like, my phone, my first smartphone was the A3X4G. They had a replaceable battery and they had phone jack. Yeah. Well, how about this? How about this? I'll give you one that I find increasingly perplexing. Every phone is made out of fucking glass. Every phone shatters. Laura dropped her phone on Friday night, which is actually one of the reasons I ended up buying the iPhone 10. But this screen completely shattered

like she had dropped a fine crystal. Like a fine crystal glass on a concrete floor. It was like, you know, anyhow, the point is phones are not made to be, I mean,, phones are not made to be, I mean, modern phones are not made to be like part of your life. They're actually weirdly made to be this like, jeweled object that like you need to baby. Like everybody, jewelry stands up to a blind wrap.

Why make the back of the iPhone a beautiful piece of glass when literally it should be wood. It should be bamboo. I mean, it could be all sorts of interesting materials. Yeah. But like they make it out of glass, they make it out of glass. And it's guaranteed to break the second you drop it. It's failed every drop test.

And it never even looks good. It gets dirty and smudge it up. There's no version of that that you can drop. There's just nowhere you can drop it. Like it's going to get cracked no matter what. It's going to get completely ruined. And you're going to have to go back to Apple. Now, probably it makes them a lot of money.

I'm guessing they make a lot of money from that. I will say the nice thing about the Pixel 2, the 2 and the 2 XL, the back is metal. I have dropped this. It's got a little bit of glass on it. Like I'm not as scared about this breaking. Like it actually can take a fall. But, so I'll say that's one way we regress.

I don't think replaceable battery is the issue to me. I think the issue is that battery tech, like if you look at the specs, if you look at the specs for the iPhone 10, it's all battery. It gets longer, it gets two hours more battery life than the iPhone 7. It's like, well, but the iPhone 8 plus

gets way more battery life than that. It's like, why don't you make it, like figure out some way, if you made a few millimeters thicker, but it got like 24 hours of battery. Why is it so thin? Who's chasing thinness at this point? Like who fucking cares how thin it is?

I care if I can actually use the thing for an extended period of time or if I have to worry every time. Yeah, I mean, here's a feeling. What is this? I mean, tell me if you've experienced this, you are using your GPS in your car. And you start to get nervous about your battery life

because it's like, it drains the battery. So all GPS, screen on, GPS running, battery killer, right? It's like, make a fucking phone that doesn't do that. Like, that's a place where, now replaceable battery can help you a little bit in that situation, but it's more like, you want the battery tech to be better, right? And it just has not, I don't think it's really progress that much.

No. You know, I think that, I think a lot, they've looked, phones have come a long way. I mean, the new Android and the new iOS are unbelievably capable at doing so many things. I mean, it's pretty crazy actually what you can do with a phone.

It's a magic wand. It really is, I mean, it's the most, it's the most incredible piece of technology that, that, maybe not ever, but it is, it is fire the wheel. It is for many generations, the most sort of incredible piece of technology that that maybe not ever, but it is it is fire the wheel.

It is for many generations the most sort of incredible piece of technology, right? Even the most basic version of it. But I do think I do think that that I don't know if there's been a regression like headphone jacks. Like I think the argument here is like the headphone jack's been around for a long time and eventually it'll be gone. I've never felt I think it's ridiculous the way they rolled out the headphone jack changes. That's the way that bothers me, is the way that they did it and the dongle stuff, it's just so tone deaf.

Yeah, I feel like if you include the AirPods, you make a phone with that headphone jack and include the AirPods. Sure, that's a good idea. Sure, yeah, but they didn't do that. And they could have, I mean, one of those AirPods could assembly cost 30 bucks, if not that even that. I forget. I would slave labor. I would, I would imagine to make a set of AirPods. It probably costs in two bucks or something.

Three bucks. Just throwing in. 100. What are they? $160 for a pair of this? Oh, John thinks it's more. I'm maybe six dollars. I'm sorry. Tim Cook over here. Assembly factory, genius. Anyhow, I mean, they are the most profitable company in the world. I just want to room, I want you to remember. Yeah, I mean, it's not like they don't have the cash to burn. Well, let me ask, how do you think phones have progressed? I mean, you mentioned the battery and I think you said headphone.

What else do you think is worse now? Well, I do agree with the glassback. Like all of my phones, all of my smart phones have been made of plastic. I have the next bit robin right now. Oh, what do you think of that? Do you use as your daily driver? Yeah, you like it?

The battery is starting to, the battery is worn out now, but I like how it has the unlockable bootless. I can install Linux on it. This is a serious, now we're a serious nerd shit right here. Yeah, but I agree. I mean, you want the phones to be open. I mean, you want them to be able to, you want to be able to fuck with them.

I mean, I love the, I think they're merit to the modular phone idea. I, I mean, I like the module phone idea that I don't, I don't think that's possible because the R market that you doesn't have like a bio straight. Yeah. So basically you need an Intel X86 processor, which isn't that we're going to happen. But if it could agree, as it was, it never going to happen. If there was a solve, yeah, I mean, the idea is right.

But is it, I don't know, it's like, yeah, I just feel like you'd wait and buy all the best parts. Unless you're a mom. But the thing about these, sorry, like, yeah. I just feel like you'd wait and buy all the best parts. I'm not sure I'm mom. But the thing about these smartphones. Sorry, mom. But the thing about my mom. Phone design is, the systems are so tightly integrated. Yeah.

Every generation that you see these, you know, when you see the leaps and bounds is in the actual like the design of the entire system. It's like, you know, the way that, it's hard to imagine that you could just snap on in two years, you could snap on a better camera, and suddenly you have a better camera, because it's not just the camera,

it's the way it's processed. It's the bridge, you know, it's like all of this stuff. And so like, I agree, I do agree, I think it would be hard to do. But you know, I think, like, I like that the Robbins made a plastic, right, the next bit, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever dropped it? A lot do you have a case on it? I've got no, I like to keep my phone's naked is the front also plastic or is it glass?

Well, this the front's plastic Inside the screen interesting. Yeah, right. Well, you break this screen. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the front plastic inside the screen. Interesting. Yeah, right. Well, you break the screen. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I think you're right that there has been some regression, but I think it's more like there hasn't been innovation in the right places. To me, I would like to see something make a phone that is like legitimately durable.

I mean, I can't tell you how many times my phone is just disgusting as an otter box. Oh my God, they're so bad. It's the bad. It's the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. I mean, it's trying to design of the phone. It's a giant eraser. And I just feel like, I just feel like the thing is, I, for every, for every device I own, I have a case, this is actually the first one I felt a little bit

comfortable without having a case for, because the back is mostly metal, but I know the screen could like crack so easily. I mean, it does freak me the fuck out. It's like, I don't want this to break. I know you hate it, but when I play my Switch on the Subway, all I can think is, don't ever drop this. Don't ever drop this.

It will shatter into a million pieces. Imagine the iPhone X. It's so expensive. And it is a so fragile. I mean, it is so fragile. A baby phone and a baby phone. I saw somebody who tweeted, they're like, well, that didn't last long. It was like a few minutes after it was released. And it's like, it is so fragile. Like, baby phone and a baby phone. I saw somebody who tweeted, they're like, well, that didn't last long. It was like a few minutes after it was released

and it's like their phone was shattered. It's like, that's what happens. Anyhow, thank you for the call. That was, you know, an interesting, I think I'm gonna say it by. Appreciate it. An interesting way to think about this stuff is like, have we actually gone back on some things?

I mean, I think it's interesting, like, the note has a stylus. And I feel like there was this idea that the stylus would never work for phones again. They was like dead with the trio. And I actually think it's kind of cool. Like there are places where it's useful. I was thinking earlier this week about VR and how they, it was attempted in the 90s, but like, say again, it was so bad. And then it came back and we were like, it's going to work this time. And now it's like, it's kind of shit. I feel like VR is, we have not yet gotten to the place where it needs to be.

It's still reliant on things that most people don't aren't gonna spend time with. No. And don't wanna fuck around with PC rigs. Yeah. You know? If the POMPRE had come with AR technology, maybe it would still be a bit of an-

It's could've been it. Pokemon go. And I think we have to wrap soon. If the POMP pre had come with AR technology, maybe it would still be today. It could have been it. Pokemon go. I think we have to wrap soon. Are there any callers that we have neglected here? I don't think so, but if anyone would like to in the chat or elsewhere pop up with a suggestion

for next week's show. Yeah, if anybody had been here, we're doing it. So we don't know we're doing for next week's show. I mean, I feel like I'm gonna end up in doing the fast and furious thing because I've been talking about it for so long. I would really like to do that.

I don't know, but, but, you know, I want, I mean, I'm trying to think if there's anything, I mean, maybe, maybe I should get the punked and review that we can't do. I can't do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm sorry.

No, I'm supposed to be on like a moratorium of like technology buying, like I'm supposed to be very, like Laura and I have talked about. Have some self-control? Yeah, and I have no self-control whatsoever. It's really bad. I did not need to buy that iPhone. And I keep, there was only a 12 step session. I keep thinking about taking it back.

I know someone you could give it to. I'm not giving it to anybody. I'd sell it. I would be considering selling it. It's like, let's circle back to this next week. It's also like,'re gonna be every way You can get one now. Yeah, you could go get one. I went and got one. I didn't order it I didn't wait till three in the morning. Guess what? I got one on Saturday morning. I didn't fucking wait

To stay up at night till 3 a.m. And show everybody my mini SNES. I'm sorry like you could go buy one apple makes these Phones for people to buy they sell them at the stores. I've done this for several Apple phones It's like Michael wants you to read the subway for a week. Who, Michael, who? In chat. I would be open to that. I mean, the subway's in New York have been a fucking disaster.

Exactly. I would like to do it to secure you complain. No, honestly, like people are like, I can't believe, because I drive from my commute, and they're like, I can't believe you drive. And it's like,

well, you were trapped on the subway for six hours the other day. I literally was on the waiting for the J train for 40 minutes, and a woman next to me was crying the whole time, and I was like, this is the bad place. Yeah, something we gotta go. I mean, I would do it. I would do it for a week.

We'll do a poll. We're gonna put a poll. We're gonna put a poll. We're gonna really put a poll on. Tweed at us your ideas. Please do. We did us ideas. I'm happy.

I think we can. The one thing that I've been interested in doing is, oh wait, someone's got an idea. put a poll on it. We did us your ideas. Please do. We did us ideas. I'm happy. I think the one thing that I've been interested in doing is, um, oh wait, someone's got someone's got an idea. Who is it? What is their name? Lucian from Switzerland. Lucian, you're on the phone all the way from Switzerland. Please tell us what you want us to do about this.

Hey, hello, Josh. How are you doing? Good. How are you? I'm fine. I'm fine. I already saw me for my accident because obviously I'm from Switzerland. A lot of beautiful. It's so much better than our, I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm already sorry for my accent because obviously I'm from Switzerland.

I love beautiful. That's great. It's so much better than I'm 30 long Island. I wish all Americans sounded like this. I wish I did. All right, what's your idea? I appreciate it. So yeah, my idea is that I understand

that you couldn't go through with a pompary challenge because it was too dangerous for your security and children stuff like that. So why not trying to do it with a computer, which is not as mainly important for quick sending message and quick calls? And I bought it. And all computers are still capable. Like what?

Like what? What kind of computer? What version of software we do? We don't have a computer. Windows 75? Windows 75? Yeah. of software. We don't want to. Why? When does 95? Yeah. Let's not go to 95. Yeah, sure. Why not?

I'm so that if it's too dangerous for. Windows 95. Can you get Chrome from Windows 95? Yeah. You can get on the internet with internet explorer. Can't you? All right. Chrome Windows 95. I'm just googling it right now. Here we go. Yeah. How to run Windows 95 on Google Chrome. No, that's the opposite. It's like you can run Windows 95 in Chrome. I will figure it out. Listen. Yeah. Lucian, this is a good suggestion.

It's a very good suggestion. It's going in the tank. We're gonna put it in the pole, never change your accent, Lucian. And keep that accent. Don't try to fix that at all. Because that's perfect. You're perfect just the way you are. So some other people in chat want us to micro-dose,

which I'm so down for. On LSD. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't ruin the day. Your micro-dose. It's weird. I've been hearing about LSD a lot lately. I was just talking to somebody who was telling me that they did acid.

Is this A-pix is depression? They did acid. I'm not depressed, but I look, I did a lot of acid when I was a kid, not a little kid, but you know, teenager. I feel like, no, I feel like if there is any drug I was going to do again, that would be I'm not kind of last of the little, on the left. That'd be the last thing. That's the top of my haven't done yet, things.

That like jump out of the plane. Oh, you done yet things. That like jump out of the plane. You haven't ever done it. What are drugs have you done? What are drugs have you done? What are drugs have you done? Mushrooms. Obviously weed. Obviously.

Molly, a lot of Adderall. I haven't done Molly, but I did a ton of ecstasy. What's the difference? Nothing. It's just a new day. It's like P today. Adderall. It's just a new day. It's like P to day. It's just a brand new name. It's just a new name. It's like P to day.

It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's like P to day. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's like P to day. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name.

It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name.

It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It's just a new name. It Gogo juice is Lonnie Boo Boo they put pixie sticks in a red ball and then feed it to children And that's all the go that's you stop that's child abuse and you shouldn't do that. I did that don't personal that other people We other people want to do sneaker culture other people want us to do. I got ideas. You're so I got a party makers You see them there. I'm wearing them. Oh This is so cool What these are very cool. This is my new shoe.

I don't know if you can see it. This is like a goofy movie, but it has a shoe. Well, that's fucking rude, okay? No, it's good. Let me describe the shoe to you. It's so cool. It's a Nike haul, I'll tell you what the model is. Actually, I don't know.

It's like a Pegasus. It's like a modern, actually, how does it in here? I'm being very earnest that I love these. I saw these and I was like, wait, are these discussing or are they awesome? No, they're awesome. It's a Pegasus. It's some kind of new Pegasus anyhow and a very Memphis design Pegasus AT. Yeah, I think I actually had a pair of Nike's that were this color in like the 80s or in

the early 90s, which is why I maybe was attracted to them. Yeah, I don't help them. But I bought them. I showed them to people in our slack and I was like, am I crazy or these good? Cool. And Lea Finn again, who I get all my fashion advice from, author of Lea Letter and one of our great editors here.

Lea was like, those are awesome. And I was like, well, Lea likes them. I was like, are you trolley? I was like, are you trolley? She's like, yeah, these are awesome. She knows. And so, and so I got them and I have to say I fucking love them. Yeah, they're very comfortable and also they look cool. What are you wearing nine dollars at Walmart? I would ever go to a Walmart. I find whatever is shockingly cheap like

Clearly like human rights abuse this is brought the price down and I buy all of it like you're like let me get that I actually bought a pair of shoes Target has this new line called Good Fellow in Co or something. It's like, it's like, they're fancy, like, you know, Millennial men, men's like men's line, but they had a pair of like common projects. I don't know if you know the common project shoes. They're like whites. Yeah. They're very expensive. Like $400. They have like a common project knock off and it's like $23.99. I was like, I gotta buy these. And they're fucking great shoes. Actually, they have like a common project knockoff and it's like 2399. I was like, I got by these and they're fucking great shoes actually. They're cheap. They're easy to

clean. They're leather. No one should be easy to replace. They look like leather. They feel not like leather. And they're cheap. And they definitely were made by some kind of horrible labor that I and feeling guilty about, but we're doing it. Yeah, some kind of, you know, Kathy Least, that we, Trump said he's gonna fix all this stuff. I don't know, I'm still waiting. Someone suggested, because, you know, Zelda played

with the pixie, maybe you play Zelda with Zelda for a week, which I don't know how I would get involved in, but. So Zelda is actually getting an elf costume for some thing they're doing at school for the holidays, but we were looking for elf costumes and Laura found a Zelda costume, which is basically an elf.

You know, um, they're all the knockoff Zelda costumes. Zelda does you know, I said, like, would the Nell Zelda is not she's video elf. She's three and a half years old. Three and a half year olds really don't play video games. And if they do, I think there's something wrong. Like, like, they're being tricked into buying an aperture. She will watch some stuff on her on her iPad, which she calls eye computer, which is amazing. That's her name for it. And she really likes it. And that's another thing that I find like I get very scared of like she's mucking loves watching her I computer. I mean, I bought her

a new one. So I guess I'm it's my fault for encouraging it. But someone in the chat called my shoes ugly. And then I bought shoes. Well, you know what? Then pay me. You know, your shoes are cheap. Do you pay, do you pay me prison in the job? Not yet. Someone wants you to get all your news from just local media, like, you know, local. Well, that's like the New York Times. I live in New York. One. New York. Great network. I'll do that. New York. One New York Times. New Yorker. New York magazine. But maybe you got pushed into, you know, just 12 or something. I mean what you want me to watch ABC the local ABC station the affiliate I mean look local news is very important. Local news is great. I was having this conversation over the weekend

No local local news. You're gonna see the resurgence of you're already starting to see the strains of it Local news is very important because they get stories other people don't see for a long time Yeah, so I want you to play this is story someone's Josh to play soccer and for me to vlog it. I would love to just tape you play soccer. I think I mean it just once like are professionally. I think I think the couple prepped the sessions. I don't know. I don't like moving my body very much. That's why I was like taping things like do that. I mean I would be I would be open to it. Yeah.

All right, we're gonna throw up a pole. Okay, great. We're gonna throw up a pole. Got a lot of good ideas here. Go to at Josh DePaul's ski, Josh Watt DePaul's ski. Yeah. At Ryan Hullahan. At Josh Watt DePaul's ski.

We're at Ryan Hullahan pole, because I'm not making my phone. At, outline, at, no, tomorrow doesn't have one. I never did it. No, you shouldn't. You keep the brand. That's my brand. I am the captain now. Mm. Okay, well. Well, thank you everybody for tuning in. Yeah, sorry. You shouldn't. You keep the brand. That's my brand. I am the captain now.

Okay. Well, thank you everybody for tuning in. Yeah. Sorry. I just got directed to some links to buy some phones that are like, I always say Josh is great at many things, but the one thing I think you're the best at is comparison shopping online. You get into the deep specs. I'm, I can shop.

You're so good at shopping. I'm good at Google, which is a a natural a lot of opinion comparisons. Yeah, I'm good. Good job. It um anyhow. So that's our show, I guess. Yeah. Thank you guys for watching listening. Oh, we're just gonna queue up the music right there in the background. I'm gonna be back in two weeks with more of this. We'll have done some type of Experiment in a in that time. Uh, go to that platform. We keep telling you not to go to when we can find a better place to do vote. To do voting. We'll do it. But it's on Twitter now.

We'll probably maybe introduce a poll tool. A poll Tbh tool for the outline. Yeah. And that's what we'll do it on. Anyhow, but thank you for listening and watching. And we'll see you soon. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best, though, I've just learned that your entire family is using

the punk to MP01, and they don't have access to the T-Mobile 2G network. you