Tomorrow - 110: Pinning Our Hopes on Ann-Derrick Gaillot

Episode Date: March 31, 2018

America’s most-beloved sitcom family, the Topolskys, are back in action and you won’t believe the hot button issues they’re tackling! On this week’s show Josh and Ryan discuss Roseanne’s prop grandchildren, robots on the moon, and Trump’s grudge against one-click shopping before checking in with our favorite Montanan, Ann-Derrick Gaillot. We know you love the show but please just don’t rip us off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to Tomorrow, I'm your host Joshua Tupulski. Today on the podcast we discuss Ant-Chacky, The Moon, and Art. But first, I'll order from our sponsor. If there's anything that makes you feel more adult and kind art, your art gallery makes buying art an easy, affordable experience that you can do from the comfort of your own home. Better yet, they encourage all levels of artists to exhibit on their site, and 90% of that fee goes directly to the artist.

Plus, they're eco-friendly. So you can select your piece of art on yourartgallery.com, and you can use the promo code tomorrow at checkout to get 25% off your order. That's tomorrow at checkout for 25% off your order at yourartgallery.com. We're back. It's another tomorrow. It's a new tomorrow, really.

I'm here with Ryan Delightful and Charming Ryan Hula-Ham. Oh, thank you. It's dark. Well, I'm actually not here with you. You are in New York. Yeah. Where, I don't know what's going on there But I'm in sunny delightful beautiful Los Angeles at the Chateau Marmont hobnobbing with celebs Did you did you run into

Gigi Hadid No, but Bob Sagitt so So similar in a lot of ways. The Bella Hadid. Yeah. Did sit nearby the full house family having the cast of full house having dinner. So you know, it's pretty star studded. I got to tell you, it's been... I'm going to ask you a hot button question.

Was an ulcer. Yeah. What present? It doesn't have to be a narrow painter actually, but was an ulcer in present. I don't think the ulcers are involved in the show in any meaningful ways for as far as I know. No. They only speak to, I've needed this recently, but they only speak to net apporter and cigarettes. They're not showing up on Netflix. Yeah, there was no presence of Olsins.

In fact, I think they got out of the area when they heard that these people would be, we'll be sorry, bye. No, but anyhow, but I know haven't seen any really truly beautiful or famous people, but I will say that it's very comfortable here and the weather is fucking amazing. And at people who live on the East Coast, our fools and losers, and I don't know

what we're all doing. I don't know why we're trying to kid ourselves that the East Coast has anything to offer, but pain and suffering, really. But pain keeps you disciplined. That's my- It's true. I mean, the people here are not... There are a lot of not great. There's a lot of lack of discipline. Yeah. Exactly how I describe some of the personalities I've come into contact with.

No, but listen, I mean, it's... I've been out here for a week doing meetings. I'm definitely ready to come home, but I'm not looking forward to being cold again. Yeah, well, I have good news for you. In New York, the humidity came, but the warm weather did not. What I'm looking for is, so I took a sip of my delicious coffee

that they brought to my room here with room service. The, what I'm looking for is a kind of balmy, like a kind of cold, uncomfortably cold, like a chill in your bones, but balmy, like a wet cold., uncomfortably cold, like a chill in your bones, but balmy, like a wet cold. Do you think that I could get something like that in New York? I think what you're talking about is,

the UK. Yeah, no, I'm, okay, guess right. I'm gonna go straight to London from here. Anyhow, look, it's been a, it's been a, it's been a crazy week. It's been a fucked up week. A lot of shit has gone down. Yeah.

I'm hearing, I've been, you know, I've been reading the newspaper out here because I don't look at the internet when I'm in Los Angeles. It sounds like Trump is not that great of a president. I don't know. I mean, the first I'm hearing of this, but there are reports. There've been reports. Sounds like there's a lot of international intrigue going on. I don't know the extent of it, but maybe Russia might be involved in some way. Apparently Apparently there's a new video game called Far Cry Out People have a lot of opinions on I don't know what's going on. Let's get into the news because this has been we spent Six we spent 16 hours this morning actually trying to get the podcast going because I'm on shitty, you know hotel wi-fi and I have

I was I try to use my surface as a as the computer of record for this recording. Which is such an adorable choice on your blog. Well, I brought my surface. I'm like, you know, I'm going to do I'm going to chance it. You know what? I usually don't travel with it because I'm like, oh, I might need something. We all have to work on a keynote.

And I don't have to keynote on it. I was like, you know, I have my iPad, which I never used, but if I have to pull it out for keynote, great, I'll bring my surface. And then I was like, oh, I'm staying a day later. So I'm going to record the podcast from here. And it shouldn't be a problem. You just plug the mic in, like, it's a modern computer. No, no, it's still a fucking shit show.

It's still a disaster. Yeah, the Surface is actually, I broke it in half and it's in the garbage right now. I, it's actually like, it folds four ways now. Well, speaking of garbage. Yeah, great segue. Let's get into the news. There's the topic I really need to talk about at the top of the show, and then we. Let's get into the news. There's the topic

I really need to talk about at the top of the show and then we'll get it out of the way. Yeah, let's do it I'm furious about the Rosemary boot and I'm furious about it doing well And I'm furious about liberals on Twitter being like well, you know, you got to hear both He's from you got it We got to listen to the voices of the of this working class and what the working class has resoundingly said is that David Hogg is a liar and deserves to be shot. I keep telling you this, you know, the real Americans are really

setting that the pace in this country. Real Americans think that Jews are lizards. I think so the Roseanne thing I haven't seen it. I find Roseanne's personality to be almost entirely detestable. Almost entirely? Oh, because you know, she means that from the 90s. Well, she, I mean, even in the 90s, she kind of sucked.

Like, Roseanne wasn't that awesome ever. I mean, I don't know that there's a huge, I don't know where this rumor is that Roseanne is actually like the best, because she's never really was the best. She could, has certainly has the capability of being funny. You know, look, I got two problems with Roseanne, the show. Okay?

And I'm sure you have more. And I'm gonna hear, I wanna hear about them. But problem number one is, she's like a racist Trump supporter and she can go fuck herself. I mean, honestly, like, people who are down with Trump can honestly go fuck themselves. I don't know what else to say.

I don't know what else to say. There are that could do a television show like there are so many funny people that we could give it Television show, but they're like no, but you know how these fucking networks are ABC is like well we have blackish We get a balance it, you know or whatever. That's the kind of shit. We got to get the red state All the real real white Americans, you know poor white Americans like how can we get them? You know, and we gave some minorities a guest's appearance on modern family. So now we need to get racist in here. And that's bad. I don't know. I don't think that's true. I've watched all of modern family. And there's been like exactly one black person on the show ever. I said minorities because yeah, so be a vicar. shut up on time. Okay, okay, yeah, I guess so, yeah. Sure, why not?

So, problem number one is, Rizan sucks and people who are into Trump suck. And I don't care, you need to be represented. Like, I'm not saying that working class people in America, white working class people shouldn't be represented. I'm just saying that I don't believe Trump is an actual representation of those people. Those people didn't vote for him.

53% of working class whites voted for Hillary Clinton. So this idea that this is like secret America. Yeah, I love that you have the facts, which is always really good to come with. Like facts are good, but my opinion is actually much more important here, Ryan. But here's the thing, like, so problem number one is Rosanne sucks.

And anything that's like playing to the red meat like fucking American you know the impoverished America that we're not hearing about which is a doesn't exist because we hear about it all the time. I'm annoyed with just on kind of a social political level and Rosanne as a person. The second thing is I'm fucking tired of these reboots. It's like get a new fucking idea. You know, like I had to live through Rosanne in the 90s. Do I really have to revisit Rosanne in my adult life? Like it's just fucking bullshit.

There are other ideas, there are new ideas. Like there are good new shows, like make a fucking new show. Here's where I come from. Did you watch it? I tormented it so I wouldn't give her the rating. That's where I'm at. That's where I come from. Did you watch it? I tormented it so I wouldn't give her the rating. That's where I'm reaction. That's where I'm emotionally.

Here's my issue with it. Is that, well, multiple things. One, the white working class didn't vote for Trump. So this idea that this is like the majority of America, and we really need to try to understand them, is ridiculous. And if we wanted to hear from actual, like what Trump's ardent supporters in fan base are like, we would watch Karen Walker on Will and Grace.

And she's played us in asshole and proven wrong in every episode. So that's the TV show you should be watching. If you wanna see real America and what real American fan working class families are doing, go watch one day at a time on Netflix, which is a real representation of the issues presented to those people.

I just think it's like, yeah, I mean, what I'm trying to figure out is like, this idea, I think this is one of the most dangerous ideas that exists right now in the kind of narrative about what's happening in America is that you've got these like poor, you know, in prover's working class white people in America who are like, we're mad about all these things

and we're concerned about all these things. And those things are not the things that other working class or in Poverish or poor people in America are thinking about and worried about. And I think like that kind of fundamental idea, the underlying concept that like the white people and the other people have different problems is actually like a really crazy false narrative.

And like if it's driven by anything, if the different problems exist, it is, um, you don't want the brown people taking a job that you think you should have or you don't like being around them. Like people or people all have the same problems. You know, like when you don't have money, like your problems are, it's pretty universal. It's like food, it's rent, it's like, can you get your kids to school in the morning because you have gas to put in the car? It's the things that, and by the way, I'm not saying that I know this personally because I don't. I was raised pretty firmly middle class and we never struggled. I'm very lucky to have been in a situation. My know, my dad, you know, he didn't make a lot of money.

He was like a snack food distributor. My mom is a school teacher. It's like classic, like America middle class and like the 80s and whatever. But like, you know, um, but for people who don't have, who don't, who, who, who are needing like a job and are worried about food and are worried about like, you know, pain in the rent. Like, the problems of poverty are universal, you know, like, there's, yes, is there widespread opioid addiction in these like pockets of white America?

Yeah, but it's like, there's widespread addiction all over America. It's like opioids and other. And I think it's like this idea that Rosanne needs to represent, that a shoelike Rosanne needs to represent the white people's version of this is like a really dangerous idea because it just furthers this divide that like there's the white people version of working class, struggle, and then there's everybody else. And the reality is like, we if we all started with like at a point where we're like, it's everybody's got kind of the same problems. Like I think we could solve a lot of the

shit way faster. And you know, it's not in Trump's best interest or in the people who are in power to actually allow that narrative to be the narrative. They need the narrative to be someone, some bad person is your enemy and like, we're going to help you fight them, which is exactly anybody who's into Trump and in whatever his basis that is exactly their platform. Like, in every possible, on every possible front, it is about some other person taking what is yours or taking advantage of you or threatening you in some way.

Well, one of my main issues with the show, when I watched the episodes, were the misrepresentation of not only who Roseanne is, but like what Trump and the whole like Trump voting white block of working class people, which is a block that exists, even though they're not the majority, is that the idea that like the conversations they had on the show were essentially Roseanne being like, but he talked about

jobs. That's why I voted for him. But on Twitter, she's not said that like on Twitter, who I guess is the alternate reality where it was in season nine, where she won the lottery, or season 10, where she won the lottery, like that really happened. But the problem is that she talks about being a racist and all her conspiracy theories and her insane beliefs and the Hillary Clinton has people murdered and stuff.

But then on television, in the prime time area, she can't own up to that and say, like, that's why she voted for him. She says, oh, he's talked about jobs. Well, Hillary Clinton talked about fucking jobs. And then they then, well, and this gets me more than anything. Is the couching of, well, I didn't vote for him because he's a racist and a transphob like I am. I voted for him because of jobs. And I'll prove this by showing you the exceptions in my family. We have these two prop children that we brought in to pretend there's a black one and a queer one. So look at me, I'm not a bad person.

I spend the entire time treating them as props and not two dimensional characters. We have the black granddaughter shows up for dinner so that you can't call me a racist. But otherwise, it was just about jobs. And then the response that we're all, all of Twitter is like, but it was balanced. Jackie's there. Jackie's got a pink pussy hat on and she's like,

you know, he's been. Let me let me ask you a question. It's because I didn't watch it again and I'm this is all I'm getting secondhand knowledge from you. Does, does, you're saying there's like there are conversations on the show about voting for Trump. They're correct. Yes, the first episode sort of addressed it.

It was about how Jackie and Rosanne weren't speaking because they voted for different people. But they made Rosanne into a reasonable person who was like, it was like, you're judging my choice. And like, I made this choice. And they've made Jackie into this caricature who was like, women can do anything.

And they should all be president, and I voted for Jill Sturring, and she had like a pussy hat on, and she was like, you know, calling people, you know, like racist and all this stuff, and they made her into like this. She was a caricature of resistance. Yeah, and it's like, well, this is what we're using

Lori Mekaf on, and you can tell the conversation went, the show creators weren't comfortable necessarily with being Rosanne, who Rosanne is now. So they said, why don't we do this? We'll have Jackie will be one side and you'll be the other side. We'll bring in a multi-ethnic family and we'll have a conversation that's respectful.

Just check some boxes, then you can do some on the family ship. Well, yeah, then it's like, well then you can humanize Trump and you can act like Trump supporters aren't racists and that'll be the fairness. It's like, I'm not talking fear. To me, the only realistic depiction of a,

I'm sorry, like, so if first of was Rosanna, I remind me, can you just jog my memory? Was she a birther? I feel for some reason, like, she was down with the birther storyline. She is down with the idea that like, with that Hillary Clinton hates Israel, there's a lot with Rosanne.

And so, like, birth or is him, you're talking about, that's like step one with her. Like, she's the kind of person who like, who believes that school shootings happen by crisis actors and stuff. So like, yes, she's in with birth or is not, but like, it's like step one. But there's a schmorgasbord.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I can't go through, I don't know all of her specific problems, what I do know is like you know if you're a reasonable person and you have and you are I Mean if you if you have a family that is a multi-cultural family and you have Gay people in your family like if you can look them in the face now and and and like, I'm happy with my vote for Trump. I feel really good about it. And I don't feel like it was a mistake. And he's actually been really bad for the country.

Then you're either a piece of shit or you're a fucking liar either way. Okay. If you actually cared about people of color or gay people or the direction this country is headed in as a whole, if you cared about like being what, you know, what I think the underpinnings of kind of the American belief system are, which is like, you know, sort of a place for everybody, right? Like America is supposed to be this place for everybody. And I think that increasingly progressive politics have pushed us further into what the ideal

version of a country like this should be. And yet like obviously conservative has pushed conservative conservative politics have pushed way, way back on that. And now we have like a whole new class of conservative politicians, which are just out and out fucking retrograde racists. You know, they are just, they're just bad people with bad ideas. Their ideas are like wildly outmoded. And yet, you know, they somehow squeak this fucking guy in with 70,000 votes. We can't really forget about the fact that he massively lost the popular vote, but got 70,000 in the electoral pool. Thanks mostly to Jerry Mandarin.

So like the thing is, it's not like it was a landslide, but like the idea that if you can go now, I'm not saying like on day, well, let's just say you could ignore all of the obviously racist shit that Trump was saying, the dog whistle shit, that like literally out and out his first fucking speech was about how all Mexicans are rapists. But let's pretend that you are like, I kind of didn't notice that or I didn't think he was being serious or I didn't really feel like it was going to be part of his policy. He was really just saying that to stir up some Republicans or whatever. How could you possibly accept if you are a person who cares about America and the state

of America? And you think that people here, whether they're a person of color or whether they're gay or LGBTQ or whatever, like that, they should have the same rights as you. And that you're now, you're like, if you look at the situation in America and you're like, yeah, Trump's actually doing a good job. Like he's doing what I voted for and you don't see that stuff. I mean, truly, you're either a complete piece of shit or you're a, or you are a fucking liar. And so the problem with what you're presenting here is this idea that there is the reasonable person's argument about Trump now. And like, there is no reasonable person's

argument about Trump. Like the only argument for Trump is you are like, there is no reasonable person's argument about Trump. Like the only argument for Trump is you are an extremist. The people who follow Trump, who believe in the policies he's creating, who like what is happening in America are extremists. They're conservative extremists and they're dangerous and they're fucking stupid. And they're from another era of this country that was much worse. And so like, so my problem with this idea that you're setting up is that Rosanne is like, I'm a reasonable, nice person. Forget about her actual persona. I'm talking about the persona of a human being. I'm a reasonable, nice person who believes that like you shouldn't be abused or hurt, you Ryan or anybody else.

But actually, I think Trump's doing a really good job. That's fucking insane. That's a person who has... But the level of discourse on the show that everyone's like, oh, well, at least we're having a conversation and we're trying to have understanding. The level of discourse is literally like they spent one scene splitting up pills because they couldn't afford both sets of medications, so they were chopping their pills in half and sharing them.

That was it. There was no like, well, Trump didn't get us to share it or this is Obamacare. It's literally like that. It's just like, I mean, that's also a false narrative. I mean, that's also completely fucking false narrative because an actual socialized healthcare system

in this country that was paid for by the fucking billionaire class who should be paying way more taxes who've just got a huge tax break would solve those problems. And the disingenuous presentation of that information as if like, so we have our broken insurance system is not based on all of the policies of Republicans and their desire to fucking ring the most

money out of people as they can is insane. I mean, it's completely insane. It's fucking insane. Anyway, let's talk about this now. This will be a short miss for me. I will not be watching any Roseanne. Yeah, it's a boot from the book. The thing I'll say is, I think there is a kind of car crash aspect to Roseanne in the sense that I'm not saying

this show's bad. Like I'm not saying that as a sitcom, it's like necessarily bad. But I do think that right now, it's like, oh, it's like the first Trump pro Trump era show on a major network and it's like, I think there's gotta be some aspect of like rubber necking here.

And it's nostalgia and it is also, yeah, like I do think it's heavily like, it let me see how this goes sort of TV. But then this is counting. You know, all in the family, like the protagonist of all in the family was a fucking crazy annoying racist. But they called him that.

The entire premise of this show is that she isn't, but she's still like, she's playing Trump and that's fine. But I'm saying like, people can, I mean, America's pretty used to having affection for an odious person. Yeah. Like, so I don't doubt that Roseanne can be a smash success. I mean, you mentioned Karen on Will and Grace.

I mean, she's the villain and I feel like she's people's favorite character, you know? So like, I feel like that's anyhow, I mean, who is time? You know what I do? Like, I don't even watch shows anymore. Like, these kinds of shows, like 22-minute sitcoms. What I've been doing is I find

a show that is like multi-season deep. I actually just did this with Blackish, which is why I told my mind. Like, by the way, Blackish is the most annoying episode where they win Trump one, where they have this like, office confrontation, and there's like, the most amazing and insane like rhetoric from like the white characters in the show where I'm like, I guess white people say this, but like, no white person I've ever met, like they're just so, they sound so fucking stupid. But anyhow, but that's not completely beside the point. Um, but I've been watching that show, but I'll just put it on and just let it run and like, kind of, I'm half watching, but I'm like, you

know, triagey, my inbox, like, this is basically my all I have time for it with, with sitcoms. So I don't know that everyone watch shits Greek. I don't know. I don't have time for it with sitcoms. I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do that. Shits Creek, everyone wants shits Creek. I don't know, I don't have time. I mean, the thing is, the stakes are so fucking low on sitcoms that it's investing my time and it feels like a little waste. What is the payoff for watching a full season of Rosanne? I think the payoff for a lot of people is that they can turn their brains off and not be confronted with any information.

I think for a lot of people just being told, like, you're a Trump photobringer, not a bad person, is a nice 20 minutes for them at the end of the day of feeling like guilt for being obvious racists. Yeah, like, like, I don't feel like there's any new ground being tread with like the woes of the white working class. Like, I don't feel like they're like, this, you know, there's no all in the family.

The steel, the fucking steel factories have been out. It would have been a, like, what did, I'm sorry, the gripes of the, what I'm sorry, the gripes of the, what I hear the social gripes of the white working class from based on what Republican politicians tell us are like what, you don't like trans people in the military. I'm just trying to understand like, what is your gripe?

You think the trans people in the military taking your, it's trans people's fault that we don't, that we don't have the benefits of unions anymore. Also unions are bad. Like what? That's fuck doesn't make any fucking sense. Listen, the Republicans have profited for, you know, so long off of getting voters

to vote against their own interests. The union wanna such a great example. You've got like, these workers, they're like, oh, just a blue collar worker, you know? And it's like, yeah, you should be in a fucking union. They're like, fuck unions according to my Congress. Because the teacher's union is sometimes difficult to deal with and we none of us should have unions.

Like, what do you think about that? You know, it's like, why would you want, why would you want to have any kind of purchasing power against the people who literally write your paychecks? Like, it's like, why would you want to have any power if you were, you know, yeah, just individually figure this out. That's a good plan for the way things have gone in America.

That's going to work out really well for you. Never had an issue with that. All right. We should move on. Yeah, we really should. Sorry. We spent like five hours in the restaurant. Yeah.

Let's move on to a good television. Let's at least for a minute just acknowledge that the Westworld Season 2 trailer came out. Okay. So, so look, everybody's freaking out about Westworld. I should say, no, I'm just going to it out here because we're gonna do a proper announcement, but Out West season two is happening. We're putting plans together now. You'll see some stuff probably next week about it.

And obviously, look, I think it's clear that the creators of that show have embraced the conspiracy culture of the show. I mean, this is very much like lost. And I will say that I think Westworld may be like the closest thing to a proper lost, like sort of progeny that exists. But, you know, so far, of course, season one of loss was fucking amazing, amazing,

and perfect. Season one of Westworld was very good. I wouldn't say perfect. I think about like a very, very good. So what the show is gonna be. Which is exactly what they wanted you to say, Ryan, and they've actually said as much in their interviews. But you're just really a repeating machine for the press apparatus of Westworld.

Or they did a con-effective job making the show, and I'm an idiot. Maybe. They were like, this is it. They literally were like, this is almost like a prequel to the actual show. So yeah, the new West Royal Trailer is out. It shows, there's a lot of shit going on. I mean, there's too much to go into like, tremendous detail here.

I mean, but there's tandy, but in a kimono, so. I mean, they, so I don't know if we're calling it, we call it a show gun world or samurai world, which whatever we're calling it, they show a lot more of it in the trailer. You know, which of course're calling it, they show a lot more of it in the trailer. You know, which of course the big thing about that is that it opens up this concept of

so much more world than you think actually exists in the Westworld universe, right? I mean, there's lots of talk about with it, and I don't want to go into all the mythology of Westworld right now because we do have other shit to get to. But like, there is an ongoing debate currently with the outlines that I'm sure elsewhere about the location of, of, of, you know, westworld. Like, where are the worlds, basically? As you know, Ryan, I think you know, my theory for a very long time from the early days of watching Westworld is that it is that they're on the moon. And I think that I really firmly believe that the,

you know, I think if the pullback, if we saw this pullback to wait, there's two timelines in the last season, and you started to see how, what this thing was actually developing into in the real underlying story that was happening in Westworld, I think the pullback for the next season really is going to be like, this is this huge revolt, they're battling Delos, there's a war going on to get their freedom

and they're going to go into the real world finally out of this cage they've been in. And the zoom out is going to be at the end of season two like, oh, the train takes them to a fucking space port where they have, you know, can board a flight to earth because they're on the fucking moon or Mars or whatever. You know, because I don't think you would like, where would be where would you have the space for what they're doing? Like, and would you want to put these things in a place like Arizona? Yeah, I mean, it think a lot of it. I mean, it's like the train system and all of that just ties into the idea that like you're on a completely different world.

Like, there would be other modes of transportation that exist. I mean, let's just say that they've gone to great lengths to not really illustrate what is going on outside of, so far outside of the Westworld region of things. There's been very little. There's been almost suspiciously little. I have thought that for multiple times, whenever anyone shows up, it's out of nowhere like a dream. It's like the picture from the Abernathy looks at. It's like, it's like vaguely New York, but could be a rendering. Like it doesn't even look real to me.

Like, so I think that, I don't know. I'm excited about the second season. What I really wanna know is, it seems like maybe they're actually, sorry, I'm just reading as we're talking. It seems like maybe Samurai World is being called Shogun World officially, which I find very terminology.

Well, I'll update our terminology. Yeah, I mean, I guess we have to. I guess it doesn't really matter, but I think Sam Rai World sounds cooler. So anyhow, like the, here's the thing about Westworld, you know, the problem with the Shilik Westworld, the trailer's really exciting, you know?

The problem with the Shilik Westworld is that a show that promises secrets to be unveiled, to be revealed. It's like, it's very hard, it's very hard to deliver. I mean, it's, I think we've learned this time and time again. I mean, what are shows that have done it successfully? I would say Battlestar Galactica. But people hate the finale.

See, I thought the finale was amazing. I liked the two. I liked the two. I thought it was fucking amazing. And so I don't really fully get that. Yeah. You know, loss was amazing, really. I liked it too. I thought it was fucking amazing. And so I don't really fully get that. You know, loss was a total dud. Well, I think what people think, it's sort of like,

but yeah, not to quote Miley Cyrus is the climb. I think people think that they want to get to the zenith and the finale and the answer, but the fun is the mystery. And like that, the fun of Veronica Mars was that right when a mystery came together, you were given another mystery, so you never felt like, you was always build up.

It was always like, you know what I mean? And as show like this has to always be build up, and the ending is going to have to be, if it's at all satisfying, it needs to be a little ambiguous. I think a nice thing about Westworld, they have going for them is that, they are acknowledging that there's a whole class of characters that are synthetic. And when you introduce this idea that like, you're basically manufacturing, you've, I mean, literally that the plot of the show

is a manufactured plot with manufactured people. You actually get this nice easy out where you can say like, well, there's another level. And, you know, and they've, I mean, I think this is the concept of the levels, I mean, there may be, this may be subconscious or not. The idea of the levels in the facility,

to me are very much like this kind of, this concept that like, oh yeah, we can keep peeling back layers of this. Like for instance, if the zoom out in season two is, oh, they're on the moon. Then what's season three? It's like, they've got to get from the moon to Earth, right? Then there's like, season four

is could be all out war between the hosts and the humans, right? Season five could be like the host take control of Earth. I mean, I don't know what they actually want, so I don't know. But like season six could be like, oh, actually this is all part of a VR simulation. Or like, oh, actually, the humans, all the humans are also hosts.

Like there are no humans. Like, I mean, there's a million ways you could, and like, I think you could actually do that successfully. But, well, yeah, you could do what the humans are hosts who created another underclass of hosts and those rose up and then now they're just gonna create another underclass of host and it just goes on and on and on, spoiler alert,

all about the Star Galactica. Also, huge spoiler alert for a Blade Runner 2049. I have to assume they're gonna get into the concept of birth, like actual, you know, like... Pregnancy. Host, pregnancy at some point. Well, I think we're getting the bits of that with her looking for her daughter and being like,

well, that's not really your daughter kind of. Yeah, right. I mean, I just feel like that's going to be, I mean, it ultimately comes down to all of these sort of dramas about synthetic people and real people really come down to like, what is a person? You know, I think Blade Runner made an interesting, I don't necessarily agree with it, an interesting choice about addressing that. Though it also reframe what I considered a replicant to be, which is like, for I thought replicants were like, clearly not human in many ways. But it turns out they're basically humans. They're just grown instead of pot born.

Yeah. So out West season two is coming alongside West World season two. And we're gonna have some real exciting surprises. Twist and turns for you. All right, what do we talk about Amazon? Yeah, speaking of pod people, let's talk about Amazon and Trump attacking Amazon.

Yeah, I mean, okay, let me just say, this story is a fucking smoke screen. I mean, it is bullshit. I mean, I believe that Trump doesn't like Amazon, but I think Trump doesn't like Amazon because Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post, which fucking burns Trump to the ground on a regular basis. And like, the story exists in this form.

It's like, an Axios reporter overheard or was told by somebody close to the president, which is like, the president wants you to report this. Like, Trump would like you to say this, that he's got a problem. He wants to make, he wants you to make it real. So when he talks about it, it's real, right? This is like to me, the most classic example of a manufacturer, it's like, Oh, Trump doesn't like Amazon. Like, I mean, people say all sorts of shit, you know, I mean, Trump says all sorts of shit. I mean, actually, Trump says more shit than most people. So like, are we supposed to really get

Ben out of shape every time Trump voices some fucking problem? Because to me, it's like, he doesn't actually follow through on a lot of the things he voices problems on. Like, a lot of them are just kind of smokescreens and distractions. Like, to me, the Amazon story is a distraction. It's like, Trump wants to find a new target to go after. so people stop talking about the other shit that's going on. Trump, then he has some willing help, some accomplices on the side, on the media side who will just like repeat anything

he says. So it's like this kind of one to punch. I mean, this is a to me, it's just on a meaty from a media perspective. You know, let's he can fucking try to make a law banning Amazon. Then we can talk about his problems with Amazon. But the idea that we're creating stories about Trump's frustration with Amazon before there's like a single bit of policy or, or a public debate or anything that is actually of material value, like that's bullshit, you know, and it is how Trump thrives in this fucking landscape. Like, he has so much free coverage of whatever he wants to do and whatever he says.

No matter how ludicrous or meaningless it is. You know, no, he could go after Amazon. He may very well. For what reason, I don't really know. Antitrust, possibly, but I mean, it's very hard to make it stick. There are lots of businesses that could be gone after for antitrust possibly, but I mean, it would be very hard to make it stick. There are lots of businesses that could be gone after for antitrust. I think there would be all sorts of interesting precedents set if you did go after Amazon. You know, one of the things people talk about is like, he's mad because he thinks they're

hurting the post office, which is like, listen, he's either mentally damaged. If he can't understand the relationship between Amazon and the post office, or he's stupid or willfully stupid, right? Like, it's sort of an insane, the argument is sort of insane. So my take on the whole thing is like, I mean, there's so much regulation that should be happening. Like, I'm all for the idea of like regulating modern businesses because we haven't grappled with their, what they do. But the reality is, like the story itself feels bullshit to me.

It feels like a distraction from other more important stories. And it feels like we're spending way too much time. And this is not a knock on Axios. They do, they do some of their appointments really, really good. But like I'm glad they got some hearsay from the president and printed it. I'm sure that was good for them. But like, I'm glad they got some hearsay from the president and printed it. I'm sure that was good for them.

But like the reality is, like, it helps to reinforce his direct avenues to crafting his own narrative. And it's a really fucking dangerous precedent. Like, this guy is totally fucking erratic. And he should be covering the things that he's actually doing, not the things that he thinks about doing. Yeah, I think that it's just funny to watch a bunch of like people who would be all for

breaking up Amazon as an antitrust or any of company of similar size decide that they're like super pro Amazon because Trump decided he doesn't like them like we're just doing the same dance he's doing which is like picking our enemies not based on like what reality is or what we actually like would like to see as policy carried out, but just to keep up with his little dance. And it's like, let him do his little dance. We don't have to follow his lead. What's going on with his multiple lawsuits or priorities?

Be on that. We can't have, oh, well, he decided he doesn't like Amazon today because it means that he knows that tomorrow he can go after Walmart and then that's the story. It just seems like really irresponsible and reporting and discussions happening. It is, it is fucking irresponsible. And by the way, let me just read you a couple things

from the New York Times article on this. Lindsey Walters, a White House spokeswoman told reporters on Thursday that the president has expressed his concerns of the Amazon, we have no actions at this time. Okay, so it's like, this is not a fucking story. You have no actions at this time. The president's fuming because he's mad about Amazon. Okay, let us know what policy he's going to put in place around that. His comments have already spooked investors sending Amazon stocks tumbling Wednesday after an article on the website. Axios about his anger toward the company. The stock fell further after his tweet on Thursday. The price is rebounded later. It's like, this is exactly what they want. They want people to be

like, holy shit. He spiked Amazon stock with this thing. You know, he dropped it. It's like, you're playing into this fucking narrative, right? You're letting him take control of the recycling of that. Were I reporting that? You're enabling it. I mean, the question is like, did they know a tweet was coming? Did they know somebody must have said

he's gonna say something about it. Yeah. And then it's like, people can't keep their dicks and their pants. I'm sorry, but like the press needs to just chill for a second. Like it needs to really evaluate what is valuable and it worth saying.

It's like, okay, I get that he may be tweeting about Amazon. He may be mad about it. First off, let's investigate the reasons why he might actually be shit talking Amazon. Now I'm not saying that they may not, they're very well. I'm open to the idea that there are tax questions and there are antitrust questions about businesses like Amazon and lots of new, they're not even that new, but lots of large technology companies and we have visited those issues before with Microsoft for instance in this country. But it's like if you're going to do it make policy, create policy, get a task force, get

whatever the fuck it is that you do as president that's actual work. And like in the media needs to be much more cognizant of how much they are, you know, fucking running, letting his narrative be the guiding force of their coverage. And so like, you know, now we're all talking about Amazon. And like, we'll trump to anything about it. Well, he have a policy. Is there going to be a change? It's like, you know, it's like taxes. I mean, the Republicans just gave some of the most egregious and insane tax breaks to the richest people in the largest corporations that this country has ever seen. I mean, it's the greatest scams of all time.

And Trump was massively supportive of it and signed the fucking law and every Republican went along with it. So there's a lot of like glass house shit happening here. And I think that, you know, it's like if you're gonna make policy and make policy, but like we really had need to stop covering every fucking thing that Trump,

like, you know, every time Trump farts, like it needs to stop being a story. And even if you don't write about it, even if you haven't published like, you don't have a byline, like you didn't sell a piece, if you're tweeting about it at least a few times a day, that is reporting on it, if you're a verified reporter on Twitter who functions as a reporter.

Like that counts, and he's hacked to us and our behavior, it's the same way when people retweet accounts or people they don't like or something that they don't like, I just did it this morning and I shouldn't have. Where it's like someone trolls, like Laura Ingram tweets something, and we all quote tweet her, and what you're really doing is spreading their message, giving

them attention, making that a conversation point, then they have to bring it up on cable news that it's trending on Twitter. And I just think that there's a level of irresponsibility with chasing him around that none of us are owning up to, like none of us want to take personal accountability for it, because it's easier to get re-tweets, it's easier to get face. I mean, also, like, you know, they have, in the same article, it's easier to get re-tweets and easier to get face. I mean also like you know they have in the same article it's about Brad Parscale who is his campaign manager, he's like his it's IT guy. He tweeted, did not forget to mention that Amazon has probably 10x the date on every

American that Facebook does all the data and they own a political newspaper the Washington Post. It's like yeah like very different data held in very different ways. And also Jeff Bezos is not a fucking idiot. Like, he's not dumb enough to do something like take people's data from Amazon and use it in some capacity like for his newspaper or for reporting or whatever they're sort of suggesting that he's going to do here. Like, he's very smart. He's much smarter than Brad Parscout. He's much smarter than Brad Parsky,

he's much smarter than fuck that. You know who has a ton of fucking data? Is time-worn or cable spectrum? And you know what they own? A bunch of news outlets. The problem is, is that like, we need to, legislation needs to catch up to like keep those things separate.

Sure, I totally agree. But it has to come from a place of genuinely wanting to do that and not because like, it's a convertible. It's a convertible. It's a mad at Jeff Bees. Yeah, it's a convertible. It's a convertible. It's a convertible. It's a convertible. You don't think there's a deep state plot

to overthrow the government, or where you're not trying to sell a narrative that there is so you can get out of the Russian investigation about your fucking piss tape, which is definitely 125% true, because there's probably multiple volumes. I mean, the whole thing is fucking, is a smokescreen.

The whole thing is bullshit. I mean you know Trump has to be in the headlines Trump has to get attention and he has to try to find somebody to take this narrative off of what a completely whack motherfucker he is and This is how he's doing it and I think it's like really lazy and really dangerous for the media to play His game, which is what they've all been almost everybody's been doing since he started running. And to continue to feed him, this fucking earned media is so dangerous and so stupid.

And it puts the spotlight on him endlessly and makes it much easier for people to get comfortable with him and his completely fucking broken concepts of what reality should be. Well, I will say, as an ending note, and then let's move on, is I do think if he wants to attack things people love like Amazon, go right ahead. Like go right ahead.

He attacked football, next it'll be, now it's Amazon, like go for it. What do we do next? I think you got it. I mean, you do have a, you do have a, he's gonna be like the Avengers have too much power. We gotta do something about Thor. I'm like, go for it. What do we do? I think you got it. I think you got it. Marvel. I mean, you do have a, you do have a, you just give me like the Avengers have too much power. We got to do something about Thor.

We need a superhero registration. I mean, seriously, I mean, the guys have fucking parody. But you know, listen, there's legitimate concerns about business like Amazon. I'm not going to say it's a baseless concern. It's like, it's not baseless, but like, you're just not coming from it out of actual concern. It's good at that.

Well, and we're not covering it. People are covering it in a way that is responsible. I think it's just like, you know, when you hear that, like, do you not press on like, what are you gonna do about it? You know what I'd say if something was like, oh, you know, Trump's really mad about Amazon. He really wants to go after that. I'd be like, well, what are you gonna do specifically?

Tell me now. And if there's no policy, then I'm not gonna run your fucking story. If you don't have a plan, I'm not gonna run your hearsay because you wanna create a story about a Amazon, you know? Access journalism, very dangerous, very bad most of the time. I mean, really an awful type of journalism. I mean, it creates, it's why you get like,

these fucking, you know, hand job profiles of Hope Hicks, who's an odious person who sucks, who is, you know, a part of an apparatus as one of the worst groups of people that's ever been put together in politics and American history. And you get like an article about how she's like her personal struggles. I don't even fuck about how it's really hard being a social climber who's using like racist tools and administration to get what they want. That's so hard. She's so pretty. It's hard being pretty. There are literally no fucks I could consider giving about her. You're such a shit. Like, like, it's like you are a non,

you're a non person in my opinion. You're like a part of a fucking apparatus. If you leave that apparatus, good riddance, like, you're like goodbye. Like, I don't need to hear from you or see you again. Oh, are there consequences to being a part of this? Oh, wow. Let me get my way in now. Oh, wow. It's like, that's really, oh, really you didn't know, like, hanging out with racists and being a racist

would have some negative repercussions for your future. It's like, you'll fuck yourself. I mean, you use it all those people. On the political gap, they did mention that, like, Trump's having trouble getting legal representation because people are starting to realize that, that like, there is consequences. The fuck, who the fuck would represent Trump? If you're a good lawyer, you want to be in court

when they roll a p-tap out, you know, I mean, give me a break. It's like, I mean, maybe like, you know, Alan Dershowitz wants to challenge or something. Like, just giving it easy, a lot of practice law anymore, I don't know. But okay, we're gonna take a quick break, do some ads, and we will be back with Ann Derrick-Gayow. What can your data tell you? With Google Cloud Platform, you can use machine learning at scale to build better products. Google Cloud's AI provides modern machine learning services with pre-trained models and a service to generate your own tailored models. Google Cloud Platform is now available as a cloud service to bring unmatched scale and

speed to your business applications. It predicts so your business can thrive. You can learn more about Google Cloud Platform by going to g.co-getcloudai. That's g.co-getcloudai. Alright, my guess today is a staff writer for the outline, an extremely talented and wonderful human being who happens to live in Montana for reasons that I still don't fully understand. I'm of course talking about Ann Derrick, Gio, and thank you for being here. Thanks, Josh, and thanks for those kind words.

Well, you know, I am actually reading a script that Ryan wrote for me, so I'm not endorsing any of the words. I'm just reading them. No, no, it's all very true, and I love reading your stuff, and you've been especially lately, not that you were blowing it in the early days, but I feel like especially lately, like I keep looking at it in the early days, but I feel like especially lately, like I keep looking at stuff in the sand,

I'm like, oh, that's fucking interesting. And I'm like, oh, Ann Derrick wrote it. And so I'm very excited to have you on, to chat about some of this stuff. Is it okay to say Ann, or is it always Ann Derrick? Oh no, Ann is totally fine. Is it okay? Cause I feel like I say Ann most of the time,

but then I just kind of was like, well wait, it's a hyphen. It's like Mary Jane. Yeah, exactly. Have we ever talked about the origin of your name? No. Because Ann and Eric is very unique. Yeah, you want to know about my name. Okay, oh, and hey, Ryan. Hi. Ryan. Okay, so when I was going to be born, when my mom was pregnant,

she thought I was going to be a boy. I'm not sure why. She just like felt it. Yeah, I think probably my grandmother had a dream or something like that. So she wanted to name me after her favorite character Yeah, I think probably my grandmother had a dream or something like that. So she wanted to name me after her favorite character from all my children, Derek Frye. He was a black cop.

And she watched that show basically to learn conversational English. So she was like really in love with this character. So she was like, oh, name my son, Derek. But then when I was born, I was into boys. So she just slapped Anne on the front. I guess I was spelling. But I was born, I was into boys, so she just slapped Anne on the front. I guess I'm not spilling. That's the question.

But I was born in France, so they were arguing with her that she has to put an E at the end of Anne because otherwise it's not a French name, they're really into shaping everybody's experience. Yeah, yeah. And so she basically had to fight to name me this crazy ass name because the E like feminizes words right like in French Yeah, but N is just like the French spelling of N Basically like and as the British way. So yeah, can you tell I'm not a I don't speak French Or any language I barely speak English to be honest

Okay, well and Derek and Derek guy oh, you're with us. You be honest. Okay, well, Ann Derrick, and Derrick Gaiot, you're with us, you're here. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you for allowing us to have you. That's that really weird and horrible. So like one of the first ones actually that I would love to talk about is this pin story that you did, which like admittedly I feel like I kind of forced you

and Jeremy Gordon, who's our culture editor. I was like, we should do something on this and I do feel like I kind of heavy in a very heavy-handed way. I was like, fortunate you guys to look into it. But you did this story about like, essentially like Instagram, like trendy hipster and NAML pins and can you talk a little bit about and like the origins of like those

pins and what is going on in like the marketplace of like trendy cute like like a NAML the NAML pin industry can you talk about the story a little bit like give give me the overview. Yeah well for sure so pins pins are huge. I don't know if either of you collect pins. I love it. I have actually several I have several pins. Yeah pins are everywhere. They're great and they are all these sort of cutesy like catchy phrases, a lot of weed smoking ones, but the artists that are making them have a huge problem with copious overseas manufacturers just making complete ripoffs of their pins. That are copyright protected and selling them wholesale to people who sell them on Etsy or Amazon,

basically online marketplaces like that. So when you brought up this story, I was a little hesitant because I had heard so much about the Zara and Lord and Taylor, Francesca's, those big real tailors ripping off pins. So I thought, you know, it's been pretty covered, but this whole added element of just no name, anonymous people selling them, just made it so difficult to track down

where these pins were coming from. So I talked to artists Sarah Lyons, and after, you know and after you told me that she had been posting about all these copious, I realized that I actually have one of her pins and it's legit. Yeah, you bought the real pin. Yes, it was the real thing. Which one do you have? Do you have the best buds or? No, I have the broken skateboard one. Oh, yeah. So it's interesting about Sarah. Okay, so, and I wanna get into, there's a lot of stuff, time pack here.

Yeah. But what's interesting about Sarah Alliance is that, I don't know how I randomly came across some of her stuff on Instagram. And she has this sad ghost pin, I don't know if you know it. It's a really cute, cool, it's like a cool, and in fact, like when we launched, we did these like little gift guide things

and I think I put it in there. She sells like socks and stuff with these little sad ghosts. But what's really interesting is that like 20 years ago, I was in like, I can't remember where I was, I was like, when I was DJing, maybe it might have been more than 20 years ago. I was DJing somewhere in like the South and I was like, I saw this graffiti,

and it was the sad ghost, and it looked almost exactly like Sarah's sad ghost. And I deemed her, I'm like, is this, I have a picture of this thing, and I sent it to her, I was like, is this yours? Because it's like from a really long time ago, and I didn't know. And she's like, no, that's super weird.

That looks a lot like, so it's funny like this kind of lineage of the story. And she's like, no, that's not mine, but like they definitely look alike. I mean, they're from really dramatically different eras, you know? But, but what was interesting, so I started following her because like her art is really amazing. Like it's really, really beautiful, kind of like a bit cartoony, but sort of just has like a, I don't know,

this really nice illustrative style and it's personal and fun. Yeah. And it's like bright and fun. Yeah, like it's like bright and fun. Yeah, like, like, she's really into pink and she uses pink and really great, like, interesting ways. And she does these murals, like, she has Instagrams of her, like, doing murals, like, in LA and other places, and they're like so cool.

They're like this weird collection of all of her sort of symbols and stuff. So anyhow, so I started following her and then I saw her Instagramming about these knockoffs. And I was like, at first I was like, oh, it's like some other artist stole her pins. You know, like this happens all the time. Like the Zara thing that you mentioned where this big chain sees some small artist's work

and they're like, oh, I'm going to rip you off. Or like another artist sees an artist's work. You know, I think this happened with the future is female shirt or something where it's like one artist did it and then some other artists is like, that's cute, I'm gonna do that for my store. And it was like some kind of like L.A. art battle, you know, like L.A. like boutique battle. My friends make t-shirts, they run the Tonya

Harding Nancy Caraghan Museum and Brooklyn. What? Okay, that's a, sorry, that's a thing. Yes, and it's incredible. They do art pieces about like pop culture, mostly about women. So they do like the Olsen twins hiding from the paparazzi was one, they do real housewives pointing at stuff. They do like exhibits of real art based on these like pop culture

phenomena and they have a t-shirt called, that says cast Joan Q. Zachmore. And this week I I someone Instagramed it like a popular writer Instagrammed to the herself wearing it. And this week, every t-shirt company that does these knockoffs spun up that shirt. And it's like dozens showed up right away.

And they're trying to keep up with calling these people out, but at this point, it's gone. Like they just can't, do you know what I mean? Like there's just no keeping up on a certain point. Right, right. No, it's like the cat's out of the bag.

But so what was interesting is, so I'm like, looking at something like, yeah, okay, I mean, I make sense. She's mad about these artists. And I started like reading the stories. And she had this one that was particularly, she's like, oh, this artist who shop is like frequented by Chloe Kardashian.

And it's like, okay, like I can see how this would be really annoying. But then the more that I looked into it and it's like, okay, like I can see how this would be really annoying. But then the more that I looked into it, I was like, wait a second, these aren't, like she started talking about these, these like essentially like Ali Baba production of her pins. So it's like, what was happening? And, and tell me if I'm wrong, but this is like essentially

part of the story, but like, what's happening is that like, somebody somewhere is like ripping off her off her pins in China or something. They're seeing them somewhere. They're creating a reproduction of them that they then put on a wholesale, something like an alibaba or services like that. Right. You can totally tell, too, that with the copies their quality is off, like the colors are off. She told me that she thinks that in some cases they actually pressed a

mold from her actual pin and then used that mold to make it. So yeah, that's crazy. Definitely all these really hard to trace manufacturers overseas. But the weird thing is too that when I talk to artist Chrissy Fouise, I'm sorry if I pronounced his last name wrong, who has also had a ton of ripoff issues, he said that, you know, it could really easily be your own manufacturer that's ripping you off like right. a market for this and then they put them up on some wholesale site. This is where the story to me is most interesting. It's sort of anonymous where these are being produced on mass somewhere. But then other people who are boutique owners are buying them, possibly, and tell me if I'm wrong, possibly not even aware that they're a knockoff of some other artist's pin and selling them as a cute accessory in their shop. And people are like unaware of the fact

that these are counterfeit. Right, but I think a lot of people too are also aware, which I just got that vibe from how many people did not respond to me. Like the boutique owner that she mentioned that she called out and who has had customers like the Kardashians, they did not get back to me. And I know that they opened my email.

So that just made me think that they knew that it was a shady thing. So I think that people, I think a lot of people are doing it. No, it's wrong. It's so crazy. You've got like a gift in the story about like just growing through eBay and seeing all these,

seeing all these knockoffs of the same thing. Like, you know, it's like, it's so weird. You know, I don't think we understand, like, we fully really grasp the kind of how widespread the, the, like, production of goods, like this kind of widespread vague production of goods that has happened, like since like, the, in the, with the rise of China and Chinese manufacturing, which has been I'm not saying this is all China by the way, I mean these make these stories could be in other places, but it is, you know, you look at you look at the kind of infrastructure that that China has created and the labor that they have employed, and you know, of course, this you see this materialized in our in our iPhones, right? You know, like an iPhone

would be much more expensive and much harder to produce if we did it outside of China because they have really created an unbelievable marketplace for, by the way, with a lot of bad. I mean, I think essentially slave labor in some cases, really bad working conditions, like just truly horrible rights for workers. I mean, we wrote some stuff about this recently, but like, but that said, it is so big and so widespread and it's so kind of all encompassing now and everything like literally so many things from like the socks you buy to the iPhone in your pocket,

like our manufactured in this kind of anonymous way and then filtered through these other channels, right? Like the iPhone yes is designed by Apple, but it is not made by, it's technically not really made by Apple. There are companies like Foxconn that actually manufacture the thing and put it in a box. And so it's interesting to, and this happens, we saw this, I may remember when I was like covering gadgets,

like in the early days, we used to have a thing at Engaget called Keeping It Real Fake fake which was like we would find weird knockoff versions of I didn't stick by the way the name is not mine that was I did not start the name It was the previous editors, but like it was like we'd find these knockoffs of like an iPhone But it was like a weird thing where it had like a Mickey Mouse Like it had Mickey Mouse on it and it had like the same kind of shape as an iPhone But like it was with a different metal and just weird shit like that and it's interesting to see how this is continued on and now It's like filtered down into like Instagram culture where you've got these like cutie

boutiquey Trendy things that are like very momentary You know typically like the best buds pan are these like weird little Accessories are like you you know, they're popular for a little while and they go away. And now there's a whole cottage industry that exists that's like mass producing these things and anonymously selling them and distributing them. And it's just like, it's like very science fiction to me.

Well, what's super weird is that handbag culture was filled with knockoffs. And it was like you could go to Canal Strait and buy a ton of knockoff, like Louis Vuitton goods and all that stuff. But this is trickled down to items that cost $5. Yeah, right. No, it's trickled down to items that you think are bespoke one-offs in a way. When I look at the enamel pins,

when I see enamel pins, I have these kind of like cutie things. I'm always like, oh yeah, they go to some place, like an LA that does, it's like an enamel pin plays, which a ton of people I know, who, oh yeah, they go to some place like an LA that does like it's like, you know, an enamel pin place Which like a ton of people I know who like artists I know who do stuff like this like go to these like, you know, they they have a relationship with like a guy who does the pins for them This is like not that like I mean I guess I kind of didn't realize that that most I guess I mean and tell me if this is true Are most of these artists having these pins actually produced overseas?

Yeah, the folks that I talked to do use overseas manufacturers, Sarah told me that she has gone through a long process to just basically form relationships with manufacturers and make sure she can trust them. So I didn't talk to anyone who has their pins produced in the US, except for one source who, to me, just brought up the whole issue beyond manufacturing of also how hard it is to just protect intellectual property and just slight variations of it, because I don't remember, know if you remember from the story. She also had best bud pins, but because they weren't a broken heart shape, she technically wasn't violating the copyright. Right.

After I put the story out, Sarah emailed me, this person totally knows that I exist, totally knows I have these designs and look here at all these other pins that look extremely similar to mine, but are technically not a violation of the copyright. So that's just a whole other gigantic, frustrating thing that I think a lot of artists who don't know the first thing about how to protect themselves legally. Yeah. And there's always that fine line of like when it comes to copyright on stuff like this. Yeah. Well, what is a kind of like you're evolving or remixing or you know, rethinking this like this particular type of art or this piece of art?

I mean, because there's certainly in art. I mean, this is, you know, of course, where art and commerce meet. But in art, there's always a kind of evolutionary aspect to what anybody does. You know, like there's stuff that like we designed for the outline where I was like referencing things that have existed previously and I'm trying to like find some, you know, we were trying to find some way to do a new version of that or try something different out, you know, or, but it's like a variation on a theme. I mean, with art like this, there's certainly like room for Sarah to do a pin and then for

somebody to be inspired by that pin and do some iteration or whatever of it, but there's a really gray area where it's like, well, wait, is this like an artistic, like, is this an artistic impulse at play or is it a, hey, it's kind of like this thing that you already like, you know, commerce thing at play? It's a difference between a meme and a stolen tweet. Yeah, that's interesting. But you know, well, that's interesting. But you know, well, that's interesting. I mean, the funny thing about memes is like, well, like a me, right, it's the difference between

you using the structure of a meme versus you taking somebody else's use of that structure. And just like reposting it on your at-door. Well, it's like, it's like, you know, like the, what is the name? I don't know if this has a name and maybe you guys would know. I feel like both of you would probably know this. The girl, the girl and the guy and the girl that he's looking at. Oh, yeah, yeah. What is that, what is the name of that meme?

Does it have a name? I can look at that. I don't know, jealous girlfriend. Yeah, maybe it's like you, it's like, it's also called Distracted Boyfriend, I don't know your meme. Okay, interesting. But that one is very easy to do your own version of, but yet, they're definitely are people taking versions

of other people's, like taking their version and tweeting them, right, as if they did them. That's obviously straight up just theft, right? But then with memes, it's like, is it? Because it's like, you're using the Neo2Grasse Tyson, we got a badass over here or whatever, and it's like, well, somebody made that. But, well, it's like I live tweaked drag race, and it's the you using like the Neil to Grass Tyson, we got a badass over here or whatever, and it's like, well, somebody made that. But, well, it's like I live to read Drag Race,

and it's the most meme show, and so many jokes that I make, someone will tweet two seconds later the exact same joke with two words change, and they're like, oh, we have the same thought, and it's like, we seem to do that a lot. You seem to have the same thought a lot. But you can't keep up with that.

There's a lot of shady people on Twitter who do not give a fuck. I mean, I've watched people that I follow, and I a fuck. I mean, I've watched people that I follow, and I'm not gonna name names. I've seen people that I follow, and I like, they're like, you know, good smart people, but they will definitely like do a tweet that somebody else did and take credit for it. And it doesn't seem like an issue to them,

which is like, I think we are, if it's like literally like a joke, I mean, it's tough, like jokes do tend to like evolve and change hands, but like on Twitter, there's like a record, I mean, it's tough. Jokes do tend to evolve and change hands, but on Twitter, there's a record. I mean, there's fucking receipts. We're in Wrappin' Williams. He used to steal jokes from comedians.

He used to give them $1,000 for it. So that's what you should do to my tweets. That's probably not enough. And with the memes, what that reminds me of is just with the pins, sometimes it seems to artists like it's not, like on, how many times on Twitter have you called someone out for stealing your joke, like at some point,

it doesn't feel worth it. And for these artists, I think sometimes the pins don't feel worth it like to stick up for, even though it's a huge financial game for them. Yeah, I think so too, because... Oh, yeah. Like with the slight variation, if someone, if you have that question like if did they

Jump off of my idea or did they just straight copy it that like you said that gray area can Kind of keep people from sticking up for their intellectual intellectual property rights, which sucks Yeah, it does and like I think it's really I mean I look at these pieces that Sarah did and there's a bunch of examples It not just her work, but of other stuff in the piece, but, um, and it's like, this is, these are really unique. And they're from her, like, clearly, like, a product of her, you know, brain and creativity. And it's like, to me, it's, it's, when I think about what it would be like to have, to have created something so unique and then have it so like directly stolen. I mean, I think there is a line there right there's

the gray area is like, oh well, maybe it's on a direct theft, but the stuff where you just see these like ones being sold on eBay, like I would lose my fucking mind. Like I honestly would would you know, I get mad when like, I mean, you've seen me do this on Twitter, I get mad when somebody takes a story that we've written and doesn't credit us, right? Or rewrites a version of our story that we like, you know, bro had some news on or, you know, did first. And it's, you know, I get really bad out of shape about that

because I think it's like, look, come up with your own fucking ideas. And it's not like we're talking about Walmart. Like it's not like journalists and pin artists are swimming in their cash, but they are, they need to expect it. Yeah, exactly. She's, I mean, I see these artists as being like, you know, in pen artists are swimming in their cash, but they need to expect it to come in. Exactly. So I mean, I see these artists as being like, you know, they're trying to make a living, making art that people really love

and seem to be embracing. And it's like, it's very hard to do. They're not large corporations. These are not people with a ton of money behind them, you know? And it's like, it's like, yeah, I mean, I feel, the reason I kind of was like, we should do something about this was partially because I thought it was interesting, the whole kind of was like, we should do something about this was partially because I thought it was interesting,

the whole kind of like globalized aspect of it, where there are people, I do think, and I mean, even though some people may realize they're buying knockoffs, I think there are people who are putting these in their shops that don't realize they're buying knockoffs. Like, I think there are people who are like, oh, that's cute.

Like, I found this cute pin like, and do not know that Sarah Lions exists. Right. Yeah. And it was just like, yeah, this is cool. So, like, I just thought that was an interesting aspect, I found this cute pin and do not know that Sarah lines exist. Right. Yeah. And it was just like, yeah, this is cool. So I just thought that was an interesting aspect, but I also feel like it's like, you know, this is, I mean, it's really tough to make a living on art.

And it's like, this is something that is maybe it's not preventable, but it's certainly if there's more awareness about it, people will go like, well, wait a second, I, this is not the real, this is not the real deal, this is not the real thing. I do think like authenticity matters, I do think like actually, you know, look, I mean, is an Ames chair, a Herman Miller Ames chair, should I really pay $1800 for it? Like, there's certainly a question there, it's like, yes, the answer is yes, of course, but it's like, you know, they've been selling the $1800 Amams chair for a really long time. And there are a ton of knockoffs. By the way, I go into some of the most expensive offices in the world. It's something I think is so interesting. And they have knockoff Eams chairs. And it's like, well, they like have

the most expensive glass installation in the middle of the office. And they decided to like cheap out on the chairs in the conference room, which is really interesting. You know, but there's always this question, like, what point does the commerce and art do you start to go, like, well, is it, how much should you continue to make off of this thing? At some point, it becomes part of the fabric of the evolution. Well, there used to be really good copyright law for this, and then Mickey Mouse came around and now it's at control on both sides. Well, the chair is a weird example, by the way, I should say that's like an actual product

that is probably has patents associated with and all sorts of other things. And like, people should not like rip off furniture and sell it, because I think that's wrong. But like, there's also like, I understand that now everybody's gonna be able to afford the $18, $18, $18, $18, $18, it's been around for like 50 years. And it's kind of like one of those things

that it just ends up being iterated on in culture in all these different weird ways. I do think that the globalized manufacturing marketplace has accelerated the rate at which we see these kind of weird mutations of products that we are like, literally just seen for the first time. And so I think these pins are kind of part of that narrative. So everybody should go read the story, if you haven't read it.

It's called, your favorite pin, maybe a giant fake. And it's an excellent narrative. There's something else I want to talk to you about, which is, which I don't fully understand and I need you to explain to me. So I'm gonna be, I'm gonna play dumb here. Explain this dance Schneider, Nickelodeon. Oh my God.

Oh my God. Situations that's happening. So first of all, I don't know who dance Schneider is. So Nickelodeon raised me plus my mom. Okay. But I love Nickelodeon and I watched a lot of Dan Schneider who's a big producer and writer and creator on the network. A lot of the shows that he made. Like he used to write for all that classic Josh, did you ever watch that show? I don't know what that is. Can you tell me about all that?

You're going to give me, I want to, I want to 10 seconds and offices of every show. Okay. All that. Okay. All that is basically SNL, but for young people and also they had really great Can you tell me about all that? You're gonna give me, I wanna 10 seconds in offices of every show, okay? All that. All that is basically SNL, but for young people, and also they had really great musical guests. They had like, teals, screen. I'm getting incredible. Yes.

It's a kid sketch comedy. Yes, he was like a pioneer in kid sketch comedy. He created the Amanda show. He, I believe, Drake and Josh is in a sketch show, but I believe he had a hand in that. He created I Carly, which is a big kid show. But he made like Keenan and Cal, Good Burger, Zoe 101, which is that show with Jamie Lynn Spears, that was actually really popular before.

No idea about that. That was not the idea. So he made a lot of really shows that were influential but not for you, I guess. I mean, I know Good Burger only like a little bit. They were influential, but they're also influential at an influential time in someone's life. It's like that should hit you when you're nine to thirteen, which is a critical moment

for like your world to be out. Yes. Yeah. So basically this king of kids television online for the past several years have been all these rumors on message boards and Reddit and places like that about how he's, he could actually be a big creep that he allegedly could pray on his, on the actors on his show.

Really? I should feel like, okay, so just at a glance, and I'm saying like a totally possible. I mean, we live in a very fucked up world. But also, it's like, isn't it kind of the perfect narrative? It's almost too perfect for like the creator. I mean, I guess on the other hand, he was like Lou Proman, who was like, I make boy bands. And it's like, oh, I'm raping people. Yeah, sometimes the perfect narrative is perfect because it was promised.

Right. Yeah, exactly. Like my point and bringing this up since he has left Nickelodeon was that like rumors like this that people have known were open secrets for a long time or you know we're just bubbling up on the internet. It feels sort of weird to just completely ignore them because of where they came from when so much sort of, so much gossip has been proven true when it comes to a lot like bad abuse. And like obviously it can't, it could totally be manufactured and not true, but it does seem like a weird thing to ignore at this time when he's leaving Nickelodeon, and there is so much like people who are abusers having this reckoning.

You know what I mean? I'm just jumping into this thread that you have in the piece. This Twitter user deluded kiss. Yeah. The things that are spread. The threat of how much of a pedophile creep with disgusting fashions, danchnighter, is in what really goes on behind the scenes of his shows.

And then they, like, go into stuff that's like on the shows. Yeah, the thing that is super verifiable about this, because like a lot of stuff with sexual assault is only you get it through whispers through the nature of how victims are treated, that's how the information shows up. But the super verifiable thing is that he has a recurring theme of showing young women's feet on his social media

and in the shows and fetishizing them. And to the point that he would talk about Ariana Grande's feet on Twitter, and then it would show up in the show multiple times, being like, there was like, you know, five minute segment where a little boy is tickling a girl's feet. And then they would also show up on his social accounts. And he would just talk about feet in mouths. There's a whole video of Ariana Grande putting her feet in her mouth as like a segment on a show.

It's super weird. And that alone, it's just, it's a weird and inappropriate and it doesn't have a place, I guess, on modern-med. It's a straight, you know, this thread is fucking crazy. I'm sorry, I did not look at it before. And I'm like, so you're gonna get, you're getting raw, a raw reaction to this thread, which is like either somebody has like painstakingly found

a way to like create a narrative about this guy in the content he's he's made or like he's definitely fucked up. Like I mean, it's like some of the stuff in this thread is really insane. Like the foot stuff. Yeah, this is a meticulous. The foot stuff is pretty overt. Like if this is like a not one time thing, it's like, okay, oh, yeah, one-time, there's a plot point involving some feet. Sorry, like, just to be clear, like, the article, and you read about this, but there's a whole foot fetish. We've already said this, but there's a whole foot fetish kind of thread.

Forget about, like, obviously, there's some, like, pedophilia that is, should be, sort of, disgust. So there's some like pedophilia that is should be sort of disgust, you know, this is obviously about kids, but they're like clearly part of whatever's going on. There's some like foot thing part of it. This is insane, by the way. Can I just say like, first of all, having not knowing, not knowing this guy, not knowing his shows at all,

coming to it and looking at this stuff and going like, oh wow, there's this whole universe of shit. And like it apparently is super fucked up is like a little bit mind blowing to me. This threat is totally fucking crazy. I know, I know this is your show, Josh, but I have a question for Ron. Yeah.

How, how did you learn about Dan Schneider and the whole conspiracy theories around him? I'm interested to know. Well, I'm super, I've for years been very like, attuned to a reports of sexual assault or like, just fucked up stuff with men in Hollywood to women or like young people or, I mean to men too, but it's less common.

And so when I had heard like in YouTube comments, someone being like, he's a creep in a pedophile, I was like, like Josh said, like, well, cuz he works with kids, but like, but they're not all. And then the linking of that, like someone being like, he always has feet on his show. And I saw that a couple times,

and then I Googled it one day, and there had been whole forum posts and Twitter threads of people being like, how does nobody call this out? To the point that even if he's a totally friendly guy, it's like, even if Michael Jackson was just having sleepovers with kids and telling them about like, you know, his fucked up childhood and like putting clown masks on them, we just can't take the chance. Like it's just children and we can't take the chance.

So, so he's been doing this for, I mean, he's been a producer or creator on these shows for how long 20 years? Like since, yeah, since the early 90s. So I don't want to say like, oh, this guy's definitely a pedophile, but like, what is the status of any kind of like, has anybody looked into this in any serious way? There, Jezebel wrote an article about him a few years ago, and you know, articles now have been sort of alluding. Like the Amanda Binds of it all brought it up, right?

Right, yes. That shit's fucked. I mean, when Amanda Binds of it all brought it up, right? Right, yes. That shit's fucked. I mean, when Amanda Binds had a public breakdown, you mean? Yeah. I mean, it's been an ongoing public breakdown. I think she's in recovery now. I saw a really great interview with her.

Oh, good. But yes, when she was having all of her public problems, that dance nighter did come up. I think that's when I learned about it, too. I mean, this shit's crazy. It's just in your story, you're like, you know, deadline in their article about this. Along with all success, for years, Schneider had been under a cloud of suspicion over the treatment of some younger stars of his shows. Among the things that have raised eyebrows are his tweeted photos of the toes of his young female stars,

it's like, I'm sorry, who are the people who work with this guy? Who are the people in the industry? Who are like, oh, he's under a cloud of suspicion, but like, didn't they didn't look into it? I mean, those people should all be fucking fired. I mean, every person who touched this guy who didn't say, wait a second, we should look into Dan

and his behavior. Seems crazy. That seems crazy to me. Like, these are kids. Yeah, and I mean, we don't, I mean, I don't know if Nickelodeon ever did any sort of internal thing, but I would be really interested to see if any sort of longer story about this comes out.

Well, I mean, we do run a news publication. Oh, yeah, I mean, hypothetical here. And if you want to do another story on this, and look into it, I'm open to that. I mean, they've only just had that Renon's Dimpy scandal. And it's like, what was the Renon's Dimpy scandal? The main animator, illustrator, the creator of Renon's Dimpy was having sexual relationships with teenagers

during the height of the show. What? Yeah, Buzzfeed. John Kirk Falucius? Yes. Did you watch Ren and Stimpy? Yes, I did. I mean, Ren and St maybe it was fucked up. I should not have been watching that as a kid. Wow. Yeah, I shouldn't have either, but I, yeah. I also watched the Marvel plays and cops, so my parents were really on the ball. Heee, hold on, I'm just good looking at this Buzzfeed. Wow, when did this come out? I'm so, this is what happens when you're in LA, man. Yeah, you're hanging out with the cast of bullhound.

When you really should have been focusing on the cast of running stupid Wow You were hanging out with the cast of full house. No, we weren't hanging out We just they had dinner next to each other. I did we did we did meet Bob Sackett That was nice, but Very nice guy lovely guy Don't worry. I already checked no old sense. They are staying far away from that scene. No, this is crazy. This is a crazy story.

Yeah. And is, you know, I guess in some way not surprising. I'm like, kind of makes sense, you know? I don't know, but like not in a good way, in a bad way. But like, guys who obsessed with like kids shows and cartoons, like sort of not a far stretch of the imagination, be like, oh, they're like kids. That this is fucking crazy. Anyhow, so look, your story is, everybody should read it, but I do think what's great, what is, and I'm fully serious about this, like if we want to go deeper on this,

I think we should. I mean, I am very curious as to why no one has actually put this story together in a more thoughtful way because clearly there are many threads out there in the world about this guy and his behavior. It's not like it's a secret necessarily. You know, it's fucking nuts. It was very depressing. I got to tell you. If you run a kid's network, like, don't you feel like they should have therapists on the set to like, and like checking on those kids and like, yes, you would think that there are like, because lots of, lots of like people making sure the kids are not being fucking abused. You would imagine that would be just like a, you know, standard thing.

Okay, so the kids are in abuse. Yeah, no, we got a guy. We have attendance at Chuckie Cheese. Nickelodeon can't afford a attendant. It's insane. It's fucking insane. All right, listen, okay, this is very dark and obviously very troubling and everybody should go read your story. But then let's just, I'm gonna do, because we have to wrap up, but I want to do, give me five minutes on this Beyonce being bit thing. I just want to, I just need to understand the story. Okay, so a while ago, Tiffany Haddish took a selfie with Beyoncé, and in the caption she said, Beyoncé kept her from fighting

by taking a selfie with her, obviously. She could stop anything by taking a selfie with someone. Sure. But then, in her, in Tiffany Haddish's recent, I believe, vanity fair profile, she reveals that she was going to fight someone because another actress who was high on drugs bit Beyoncé in the face at Jay-Z's 444 tour after party so the internet was

On fire trying to figure out who that Beyoncé in the face. Why would you do that? Why were there no Consequences that's basically the story. I'm so wait so wait I'm confused. Did Tiffany Hattish bite Beyonce? No, someone else did, but then Beyonce told Tiffany Hattish that person bit me and Tiffany was going to fight her and Beyonce said no that bitch is on drugs. So we're trying to figure out who it is. But but there's an actress. Yes. Unnamed An unnamed actress who did the bite. There's that what you're telling me. But yes

Okay, well, let's hear the guesses. We all know it's Glenn Cliffs. I'm just kidding. I do have a real Staff writer who will remain, remain nameless. Told me that she thinks it's Gwyneth Paltrow. Oh my God. But there's no evidence that Gwyneth sounds so right. That sounds so right to me. I wish. Um, it just feels right.

Let's just say it's Gwyneth. Um, there are one actress. I'm forgetting her name. It's like, uh, uh, Sinhal Ethan. Yes. Sinhal Ethan said she didn't bite Beyonce. A lot of people thought that she did. And so we're putting a bunch of B emojis in the comments of her Instagrams, which you know, what that means. Whoa, did you see this Tyler Perry story? Tyler Perry, I know who bit Beyonce.

What? Yeah, this is from us, us weekly. Tyler Perry. I know who bit Beyonce on the face. This is real. Oh, I know who did it. I know who did the director told us weekly. At Tuesday, March, 20th, I was screaming of his thriller Acrimony. I'm not going to tell, but I know who did it. Oh, God. Wow. This is going to be his next film. It's going to be called Tyler Perry's jobs. Oh, my God. I can't believe gonna be his next film, and it's gonna be called Tyler Perry's Jaws. Oh my God. I can't believe Tyler Perry won't give up.

So it must be somebody pretty famous. Oh yeah. Okay, because like you would, I think it's the woman that everyone thinks it is, because Tiffany like hinted, and like she was one of the only actresses at the party, and then her in her statement, she said, like, I didn't bite Beyonce,

but if I had bit Beyonce, it would have been a love bite. And that's the most, like, if I did anything, I've never. So people are saying, okay, so Lena Dunham is in the running here. Yeah, Jenna Lawrence is in the conversation. Apparently, there's like a, there's people are now, there's like betting on it. She's the faith, she's the odds, odds on favorite.

Is Lena Dunham apparently? Jennifer Aniston as a suspect. This is I'm reading from NME, the now shuttered print rock music publication. I don't know what NME does anymore. Jennifer Lawrence. Oh, Chrissy Teigen was there. Asked by Huff Post if Lawrence could be ruled out

of representative replied, yes, remove her please. Natalie Portman, she wouldn't have been posted across her off the list. Um, it was fun reading the representatives reactions because they were all saying stuff like, what are you talking about? That's insane. Yeah. Terragi P. Hanson, uh, Tiffany Hannish says no, definitively. Okay. Kathy Griffin.

Sounds like no. Sarah Foster, is this the person you're talking about? No, Sonaleithan. Yeah, and the Boston Globe is in the same leading that is in the lead. Sonaleithan. Wow. Interesting. and then leading that. Of Sonale, and Leena. Wow. Hmm, interesting.

Well, this is fascinating. But if we're going to guess, I would say, Lena don't, like if I didn't have a- Yeah, emotionally that feels right. Yeah, yeah, it's, I don't know, I don't know, honestly, like it's a ballsy move.

I cannot imagine doing anything like that to Beyonce. It seems like the most insane. Yeah, I think like people like Kathy Griffin and Gweneth Paltrow know the line. They know that like, yeah, it's not a line. I agree. I agree. I feel like if somebody was really drunk,

that would be the scenario where it happens. Like you'd have to be plastered. And be like, you look delicious. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Maybe it was just a love, like a nibble. I mean, was it a buzzer? It's like they took a chunk out or anything. Yeah, the degree of the bite is really unclear, but... Yeah, I think we need to figure out if it was a nibble, was it like an actual like, chomp down, was there blood? Like, I don't know any of the details.

I feel like there's blood, we would have heard a lot more about it. All right, listen, we gotta wrap this up. Unfortunately, at some point, I'm gonna have check out of the hotel. They won't let me podcast in here forever. But I'm glad we ended on a really wonderful bright spot where it's like, who bit Beyonce, which is definitely, feels weirdly not that happy of a piece of news, but at least no one died.

No one died, no one was sexually assaulted, I think, so that's, and no one had their art stolen. And thank you for joining. I really enjoyed this conversation. You've got to come back after you've figured out the dutch knight or situation. And tell everybody what he did and who he did it to. That sounds like a bummer.

Sorry. Sorry if I've just assigned you the most depressing story of all time. Hey, it's my job. My pulse. It really is. You might get to any of Lori Beth Denberg. So there's an upside to everything.

I love Lori Beth Denver. I have no idea who that is, but I think it's probably fitting. All right, and thank you so much now. Please, please get back to writing great stories because the outline really needs you. Thanks, Josh. I enjoyed talking to you guys. Well that is our show for this week. We'll be back next week with more tomorrow and as always, I wish you and your family the

very best. Though I've just checked eBay and your family has been ripped off hundreds if not thousands of times and no one really knows who did it.