Tomorrow - 119: Naomi Fry Knows John Mayer *(and isn't afraid to ask)

Episode Date: June 9, 2018

This week we're giving you a super-sized episode of Tomorrow to make up for last week's rerun. You're welcome! For the first half of the show, Josh has gone missing – and it's up to Ryan and producer Wynton Wong to put together the pieces and find him before it's too late. After talking about ICE, Carrie Bradshaw, and the hairstyles of con artists, they finally get around to doing so. Then our beloved Josh returns to chat with Naomi Fry, a celebrated staff writer of The New Yorker, about Spencer Pratt, John Mayer, and John Mayer. They also talk a bit about John Mayer. Ah, it's good to be back. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow on your host Josh Wittipulski. Today on the podcast we discuss John Mayer, John Mayer, and John Mayer. I don't want to waste one minute, so let's get ready. Hello, this is not Josh Wittipulski for once. This is also not Josh Tupulski. You're kidding. This is Ryan Hula-Han. And this is a Wynton vlog. We're filling in because Josh is

indisposed, let's say. But he will be back as previously stated. He will be back to talk for an hour at you. So you're not missing any Josh this week. Yes, you'll still have plenty of Joshua. But we're here to discuss the news for a few minutes because it's been two weeks and we gotta like knock some of these topics out

so that when Josh comes back, we can start fresh. So I don't know what you've been thinking about this week but I've been actively not thinking about Donald Trump. I can't take it anymore. It's really hard not to, but I also have only just like, I think't take it anymore. It's really hard not to, but I also have only just like, tangent, I think it's really interesting. So the daily news podcast has decided that this week,

they're not gonna talk at all about daily news and Donald Trump, they decided this week was gonna be this like little mini series about Baltimore and like policing after Freddie Gray. And I was like, okay, interesting. If Michael Barbaro is like, you gotta take a break. Maybe we should all take a break. Maybe we should take a break.

Well, that's the, I see the news. I read the stories, I'm not out of the loop. I'm watching Full Frontal, which we'll get to. I'm like, you know what I mean? Like I'm watching, I'm watching the break. The break, I'm watching, you know what I mean? Like I'm watching, I'm watching the break, the break. I'm watching, um, anything where the little humor in it, I'm still tuning in. But I can't for the life of me, I have actively not been thinking about Trump or his family

and yesterday in my kitchen, I was just thinking about the ice kids and I just burst into tears and like it took me like five minutes to put myself together. So if I engage at all with this, it's just getting to a point where I can't get worked on. I can't, I don't have functional relationships. Like I'm just so distraught over what's happening that and I know that you can't be like, well I'm just not going to engage with it. Like I'm, you know, we're at Nazi Germany and I'm just going to stick to what I'm doing. I've been channeling Melania. I've just been removing myself just a situation. I'm just been trying to clear my brain. Melania never existed, just you know.

I have the proof. It was a conspiracy by Killery Clinton and Kill Clinton. Okay. They killed her even though she never existed and they need to lock her up. Although I will say a very gratifying moment when Giuliani was booed at Yankee's game. Like, I've been waiting since the 90s for that. So I don't care.

Like, we're passionate people. This is what this is what New Yorkers do. And it's like, we're passionate about fucking hating you. Like, the Yankees are having like one of their best seasons so far. So like, and Giuliani is having one of his works. Yeah, let's be honest, what's really happening here? Fuck him, seriously. He was not even more and more terrifying every time I get it.

He's like a horrible golem with his, but if you've ever looked at his top teeth or a different color than his bottom teeth, because he only weightens one set. I have not. I will never look at Giuliani's mouth every month. Happy Pride Month. That's the most heterosexual thing I've ever heard in my life.

Horrifying. He looks like, yeah, golem. He looks like a Gremlin man. Like, he looks like if you fed him after midnight, we'd have two Giuliani's. He's horrifying that. And then you just told me about this pizza man thing, which I'm going to cry about.

Yeah, so basically a man, a pizza delivery man who, you know, when you order a pizza, they sent out the person to send to give you the pizza. Yeah, I mean three of these people a day. Yeah. A group of military men at the Fort Hamilton base in Brooklyn ordered a pizza. Fuck. This man, Pablo via vent, ventensio did his job and gave his New York City ID to the guard and everything.

And immediately was essentially put into questioning. They're like, who are you? Like do you have identification beyond your New York city ID card? I don't know. And they ultimately like did a full background check on him and found out that you saw. Just cold calling. Like they were like, you, you mat the shade of brown a little too

close. Right. You're a let me know. Yeah. And so they immediately like essentially held him called ice and now he is in holding and is potentially being deported for doing his job. Jesus Christ. Because America is a bad place.

1500 children are being kept in a big box store with no oversight. And they're sleeping in rooms with grown men. There's no school. And I mean, they just, I mean, they had to be did a piece about it last night that was devastating to me. And at one point in the piece, there is a Republican. I forget who I'm sorry. You should watch the piece.

It's fantastic. But who then said like, but, you know piece, it's fantastic, but who then said, but you know, they're getting fantastic treatment. And honestly, like some Americans don't have this level of healthcare. That's my biggest thing is that there's this constant comparison of like, well, American citizens don't even have this.

American citizens don't even have this. I'm like, right. Yeah. So isn't that a little embarrassing? So like, one, by saying that an American citizen should be privileged over any other human being, let alone like a law abiding to an extent, but like a person who like really hasn't done anything wrong. It's inhuman.

Yes, it's insane. And then to use the excuse of, well, American citizens don't even have this, is like an insane like loop, loop, like, logical loop that boggles my mind because like, there's nothing, there's nothing more than activists in America, right? There's obviously activists whose like, focus is undocumented immigrants, but there are millions of activists who have been asking for either free child care, expanding a food welfare program, expanding jobs, medicare, anything so that American citizens who are apparently not getting the amount of great care

that these migrant children are getting can get those things. Like, how is that the best way to explain the reason why you're separating children from their parents and keeping them in a box that nobody can go into and see how you're treating those children? I mean, that's, that's like concentration camp stuff and we have to get really honest and start using the words that you that are what these things are. Like I'm very sick of like detained.

Like, we're not detaining people. We're putting together like people to stop trying. All you're doing is just committing human rights abuses. It's insane. And like the other, like I try to put myself in their shoes, like are you trying to motivate American citizens to do better? Well, I don't think that's really working because ultimately, you're just giving people who are in their own

Unfortunate circumstances Something that they can focus their like frustrations on which are other people that like they really don't have control over But like well if my frustration about my life whether it be I'm unemployed and I can't get a job I don't have enough food tea. I don't have enough food to eat. I don't have enough to drive her a family. Instead of trying to give people potential solutions where they're like, no, no, no. Just focus your attention on the fact

these other people are here. It's like an easy scapegoat. It's like it's an easy, like, people have a natural inclination to fear people who are different because of evolution. And if you hack that, it's a really easy way to bring a group together. It's a really, it feels right to people. They don't need you to explain why.

They just, it feels right. Like if I don't have something, someone must be taking it from me. And it feels right that it's someone different from you, not someone who looks like you. So it's easy to say it's this group of poor people who's desperately trying what you're trying. And if they got some help and you got some help, you could work together and both of you would succeed and a rising tide raises all boats. Then it is to explain that like there are like God kings called billionaires who look like you but a secret number in an account online lets them live what do whatever they want and

keeps you from like seeing a doctor. It just takes more explaining. And at a certain point when you've just gone with your gut and said, I'm a racist, you're not, it's so hard to walk that back. Even inside yourself, it's so hard to take a step back and be like, maybe I was being an asshole. Like, this is gonna sound so trivial,

but I truly believe this was an experience for me. I used to think that furries was the craziest, stupidest, most disgusting, annoying, weird thing that I'd ever seen, and it was embarrassing to me that gay people were being lumped in with them, because I'm like, we're not cartoon- and it took me a long time to be like, shut the fuck up.

If someone wants to do something with their life in their bedroom or not in their bedroom, they just really are in a fandom. Who shut the fuck up? It's none of your business. It doesn't hurt you. And if those people get the right to do whatever they want, nobody's gonna come to your home and say,

like, you need to stop watching Romeo and Michelle for the thousands of time. Like, you only weird things that other people would think are weird that I'm into, but it would take a while for me to admit that I was being an asshole. Because you don't even want to admit to yourself that you were wrong, you just become more stubborn

and it takes you being shaken up a little bit. And I get frustrated because it's like, this is children, we don't have the time. We don't have the time for you to have a journey about this. We don't have the time to go to Gilead and have Serena Joy realize that her plan didn't really work out too well. We don't, these are children who like a traumatic three months for a child can ruin your life.

And I'm talking from experience, like you need enormous resources to overcome something like this. And I get, it makes me so worked up. And the idea that Samantha B. was a topic of discussion for a few days because she used the word, which I will say. One of my favorite words. It's a fucking great word. It's a great word. And I will say that like, first of all,

it's not as unacceptable in some, it's just like cultures, as it is in some, do you know what I mean? Like it seems like the American South has more of an issue with it than the gay community or people in London ever will. To me, the idea that that we got caught up on someone within a group using a slur for that group,

rather than the fact that while talking about that, while using that word, she was talking about a human rights abuse on a scale that we haven't seen since, in America, since Japanese internment camps. This is so disgusting and unreal. And we spent days being like, should this white woman have called another white woman

the word cunt? Like, are you fucking kidding? And that she had to apologize. I like how she apologized finally. But like, I mean, it's so hard because. I can hear myself being shrill. I mean, it's hard because there are only so many women's voices that have even like the percentage of visibility that most men's voices do.

And I can totally understand if I'm like a male host or a male writer, not feeling comfortable writing or saying the word, can't. Of course. I barely feel comfortable and I'm a non-binary femme who like, who does, who does dundraag. I barely feel comfortable and I'm a non-binary femme who does dundragg. I barely feel comfortable. Yeah, and I think even for me, as somebody who identifies as a woman, contes a word that took a lot of years for me to be actually one, I really like, I think it sounds great.

It feels good coming out of your mouth, but it's also a word that has a, the staccato-ness of it and the power of it can be really. It's like a punch. Yeah, it can be really empowering. And like if you actually take what Samantha B said, right, the actual structure of that sentence and that joke, it was like really well done, right? It was an excellent joke. And it sucks, right? It sucks that like we are punishing one of the few

female voices on television for saying a word that for a lot of people should only be said by women. Yeah. Right? So like if Samantha B cannot say the word Kant in the context that she already prebuilt in a really creative, well done way, then like who can say it? But listen, I don't even think it fucking matters. I think we were waiting for a reason to yell at Samantha B because look what happened to Michelle Wolf. She didn't do a thing.

She literally did not comment on Sarah Sanders appearance and they were like, well, we were ready to get mad about that anyway. So we're just gonna do it. And nobody cared, nobody cared. They still covered it on fucking CNN for 24 hours. They had panel discussions. Like what, at the end of the day,

like morning Joe's just gonna take their talking points from whatever the alt-right is making trend. And that's that. And like, I'm getting to a frustration point where like, so like, for example, another news story that happened recently, Rosanne got canceled. Great. This feels good. It really takes the, the, the wind out of my sales when Rosanne gets canceled, but Samantha B just got so close to being canceled. But the, the idea that we're not even looking at, like

that that Rosanne got greenlit and stayed on the air for as long as she did. And it took something so egregious to get that off the air. Samantha B, I don't even think did anything. And got pretty close. She's now has sensors in her studio with her for every show. And to tell you what, what a network has to fear for them to pay an extra person on a television show, I can't tell you how hard it is. What's really interesting to me is that the business of it, so the difference between Samantha B on TBS and Rosanna on ABC is that Rosanna on ABC is, to an extent,

controlled by advertisers. That's been the new kind of activism, is that somebody, some corporate thing, some whatever does something that you don't like, you go to where they may like it. The only way to fix it is capitalism, unfortunately. But the thing, the interesting about Samantha B is the vast majority of the money made on cable

is because cable channels are already pre-sold to packages. So like ultimately, like, I think like state farm removed their ads and like some of like maybe like some of their like weird.com business remove their ads from Samantha B. But like that didn't really hurt TBS. Like ultimately like financially that wasn't particularly hard. Well, that was like with Fox News, the only way to really

get Bill, who are highly off of there was to say this now extends to other shows on your network. Yes. And as a channel, you're being taken. Right. But that's the thing is that like, if you were to take a macro look at like the, the quote unquote,

Samantha B. debacle, like, the only thing that's really hurt is not TBS's bottom line. It's like a brief moment TBS's bottom line. It's like a brief moment in Samantha B's career and then the essential like a censorship of a uniquely female word and thought process, right? Nothing else changed, right? Like if it wasn't to ban the beef, you'll link the 24 hour news cycle,

it would have been something else, right? So like you could even say that like, Oh, she just like added fire, fire to the the 24 hour news cycle. That would have happened regardless. We would have found something else like they, well, all would have found something else. TBS is not going to get hurt, right?

Let's be honest, like state farm going out of like the, you know, maybe four slots that happen around Samantha B easily filled by somebody else. TBS's ultimate bottom line is always, yeah, is those like pre pre sold cable channels. So like, I was at the beach. What an incredibly cheap show to me. And so like ultimately it's TBS, not wanting to rock about politically, culturally or whatever you want to say. And Smith to be going, it's more important that my show stays on the air than me to fight off like this literally one particular instance of using the word cut when she's used the word Kant in many other instances. Yeah. And it was bleeped. It wasn't even as if like it was just said. Like family guy had bleeps

out at Tanajit. Nobody ever comments. Oh boy. Well, and any event in other news, in other female political news, Kim Kardashian got Trump to issue a pardon. Did anyone, he seems to be giving pardon to like a lot of people, so it doesn't feel quite as special. But not like not to insult her, even though I could easily give you a list of reasons why Kim Kardashian and her whole family

should go away forever. But I just feel like the news is like a random word generator. And this is what like Kim Kardashian met with the president to get a pardon issued over a drug offense for someone she doesn't know. Like that's crazy. Yes. I mean, like I think that whole,

the whole situation is like the perfect distillation of like the celebrity invasion of politics, right? Like Kim Kardashian only knew about, of the celebrity invasion of politics, right? Kim Kardashian only knew about, I think her name's Alice Jones, right? Because John Legend or Chrissy Teigen told her about it because they have like dinner parties together or whatever it is.

To be a fly on the, oh wait, everything they do is documented. Yeah. So like, and not to say that this grandmother shouldn't have been parted. No, of course. But along with like 100,000 other women who should be. Millions of other people.

But like, I don't know. Like I felt something when the announcement that Kim Kardashian was going into the Oval Office to talk about this part in. And then I felt something when the announcement that Kim Kardashian was going into the Oval Office to talk about this part in, and then I felt nothing else in regards to this. Like I'm just like, okay. It seems like that this particular thing happened is good, but that we are at a point where this kind of thing is the way that this happens is insane. Right, this is the new normal.

It's like, you know, honestly, it seems like an old timing movie star made a call to her friend, Ava Braun, who said, wait, wait, she needs to get one of these Jews up out of here. Right. God him out. And we're all like great work. And it's like, yeah, okay, you did a good thing. Right. How? and again, Godwin himself has said that Godwin's lot does not apply to the Trump administration. So if I'm talking about Hitler too much, it's not just Jews stuff. It's not just because I'm Jewish

and I talk about it a lot. It's because this is a one-to-one comparison. And to me, it's like that doesn't, the world isn't such a crazy awful, like America isn't such an insane place that like one person being saved is like good. And I'm very happy for her. But we need, the conversation does not need to be about,

like, thank you, Kim Kardashian, like, and I don't think she's tried to make it, but let's try to shift that, even if you write for E-News, to like, isn't it insane that this is, that Kim Kardashian had to do this herself to get one person justice. Right, like, remember when, like, isn't it insane that this is, that Kim Kardashian had to do this herself to get one person justice. Right.

Remember when like the overlap of like celebrity and like presidents was like, ooh, did you know that Marilyn Monroe like had a affair with JFK? And I'm like, okay, like that, that seems fine. Yeah, I remember like politics and pop culture parties. And you'd be like, I'm Monica Lewinsky. And this is my handbag line. You'd laugh. And it would be like, that was like politics and pop culture parties and you'd be like, I'm Monica Lewinsky and this is my handbag line. You'd laugh and it would be like, that was like meh. And now like, I just,

Well, I mean, it's, it's like this Philadelphia Eagles thing, right? Like Philadelphia hasn't won a Super Bowl in ages. They win a Super Bowl. Huge deal. Philadelphia is a really interesting place, kind of like racially and politically. And ultimately it's like where the Liberty Bell is, it's where like arguably the start of the American Revolution happened.

All history is there, as well as all of them. Like you searched out of that. And for- Paddy's pub. The president, for President Donald J. Trump, to be like, I'm too nervous that not enough of the Philadelphia Eagles team will come show up at the White House.

So I'm going to cancel this thing and say it's because they disrespect America and our military and they kneeled or whatever. And literally there's been so many Eagles players come out and be like, if you literally Google Philadelphia Eagles kneeling, the number of Philadelphia Eagles players that kneeled is zero. Right? And I can't remember who's the player's name is, but obviously there's been a lot of press following the Eagles now. And one of the players in the locker room essentially wrote out like like, he did the, oh, what is that movie? He did the, like, put, like, pulling up, like, signs thing as like, all the presses around them, going like, like, what do you think? What do you think?

And he's literally just holding up signs that were just like, you know, like, incarceration for Black youths is this amount of people, like, literally there are this amount of homeless people in Philadelphia. It was such a powerful thing. And the president basically made the problem of the NFL, which is a problem and like made it worse, right? He's now empowered to these Eagles players who like for the most part has sat out of

kind of the larger national conversation about like kneeling and patriotism. And now he's like, well, don't you think he just kind of took it personally that they were black? And how do you think people will respond to that? He hates any famous or wealthy or influential black person on top of how he hates regular black people. Well, he hates, he really does hate athletes. I think to it like a special degree.

Because of his bone spurs and floppy body. Or whatever it is. I think there's, there's this notion. Well, it is like viewing black people like cattle, right? Like he views these athletes as like. But how did he think that they were going to respond? Like if he had any sort of mind that wasn't like fried from an fetamine, he would be able to say I'll just go forward with this quietly whatever happens. I'll be respectful and then it will be over And then he just said he didn't know the words to the anthem well Yes, he's turned this into like the a fucking three-ring circuit It's like he can't help but be a reality TV star in the worst sense of that

It by which I mean they can't just take a boat ride. Like, Ramona singers got a fall off the side of the boat and someone shits themselves and then something's on fire and there's a breakup. And it's like, just sit on the boat. And he's unable to functionally do that. And it just, if you cannot look at him and say, like, this is an insane, a truly insane.

And I mean this, not as a derogatory term for mental health, and actually medically something is wrong with the way that his mind is functioning. If you can't look at this, like objectively, anyone would have looked at this and been like the easiest form of action from PR standpoint is to just do the most boring thing and then it'll be over.

And instead, like, look at what this becomes. And so we're gonna let him go to North Korea, which by the way, he just said he doesn't need any preparation. He just needs the right attitude. And it's like, do you know that that's how every America's funniest home video starts? That's how they all start. Do you want America to be kicked in the nuts?

Because I, personally, am not ready to die. I have like 30 pounds left to lose before I'm ready to die. Yeah, there was like a really interesting article from like a Canadian newspaper, right? So like Justin Trudeau, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, apparently had a conversation with Donald Trump and was like, what is the national security problems issues

that would be brought up that would need these like harsh steel sanctions to be placed upon Canada. And apparently Donald Trump was like, didn't you guys burn down the White House? And like Trudeau was like, excuse me. You're thinking about Britain in the war of 1812. And I guess Canada was technically a British colony then. But who told him that? Because it was definitely Stephen Miller. Like, for sure. But I'm like, but that doesn't change the core question that the prime minister asked

is, what are the current and potential future national security ramifications that required these sanctions? He doesn't have an answer. And it's the same thing. And so whether it be... This is like when Amaro says that he kept a list of everyone who'd ever wronged him and he was going to use the way to get back to them. He's now doing that for America.

He's like Googling America's history finally. And he's like, oh, wait, they played down the White House once. When was that? 1812? Great. Every country in the world has once had an issue not doing everything America as. So, anyway, the Canadian newspaper is like an op-ed was basically like clearly the sanctions that the European Union are considering upon the US, that Canada and Mexico as counter sanctions for these steel

sanctions, well, sanctions, is that these countries should actually plate sanctions on specifically Trump properties and Trump businesses, because that's the only way that they would. Ivanka. Ivanka's brand. Right. How do you actually affect the president and his decision-making skills or whatever

is to actually target him? Because clearly he doesn't, he isn't thinking about America's interest. No. Right? Like these steel sanctions ultimately are not going to be that helpful for American steel, because functionally, like that's just how the industry works. these steel sanctions ultimately are not going to be that helpful for American steel because functionally, that's just how the industry works. Right.

And ultimately, the raw material is necessary for these steel workers to work and make American steel. And most Canadian steel companies are owned by Americans. So like, let's just from the break from the break if you asked American Steel Company Do you want to attack your attacks or other businesses? I mean, there's bit there's like a story every couple weeks right of of the promises that Trump made on the campaign trail about keeping American jobs, right? And then ultimately Every couple weeks we get another story that's like actually like for it is gonna keep outsourcing these jobs. And GM's gonna keep outsourcing these jobs.

And Frigidaire is gonna keep that. Apple's not building an iPhone planter. Right. So now the hopes of these middle class blue collar workers like just continue to. Dwindle. Yeah. Like there's no actual help for these people. And you know what's being offered to them? The jobs that they didn't want in the first place

in that they won't take, which are the jobs that immigrants were taking and making our food industry work. So like, right. And then like we're also not going to change minimum wage. Yeah, we can't afford to pay even minimum wage for those jobs. So it's just such a fucking, okay, we said, we weren't going to talk about Trump

and we're doing it. All right, so let's move on to another topic. Um, I got one dark topic. And then to their dark, but they're not as dark. Okay, my dark topic is that If you were to pick any fitness plan in the world to be the most homophobic. Oh, boy. What would your guest be? Wow. Hmm. Hmm. It's probably not Pilates. It's probably not jazz or size. Zumba.

It's definitely not Zumba. Crossfit, the CEO of Crossfit, said that pride was a celebration of sin and goes against the Bible. Big fan. Richard Berger, which will come back to the name Berger, because it's the exact same city he had in anniversary, and I'm going to talk about that. But he, yeah, and then he got fired, which, how does this make me feel about CrossFit as a brand? I didn't like it before. Oh, man.

So like, nothing like kidney failure to make you really lose a lot of weight. Yeah, nothing like no safety at all. Just lift this box and then put this box down. So I found this revealing. I guess it's great that he got fired, but like how did someone hold that position for so long? And they're by us against the entire queer community didn't come up. So it's like maybe that would come up. Capitalism is like insane force. It's crazy that it's so bad. Yeah, so Gabi Delvier, one of our staff writers here at the outline wrote a piece that kind of outlines kind of the general feeling about the LGBTQ community

from the CrossFit angle and how there's been lawsuits from transgender individuals against CrossFit. So it's like not a surprise particularly. It's always just an extra of having seen a CrossFit, like having seen this in process, I would be terrified because it attracts the kind of people that are just not, I'm sorry,

but it attracts like a homophobic crowd who is full of, there's a lot of like, I would just assume, from what I've seen, there's a lot of like, shaming of either femness or whatever. It's like built very on masculine stuff, which includes like, oh, I picked this up stuff this free floating object and put it down next station Like it's very as opposed to like a curves, which is like do you need help? There's a machine. We're gonna guide you um

And I think that does it to service not just to queer people and women I kind of think that doesn't to service to straight men who might not want that to be the environment that their bodies are being evaluated from. And especially as a gay person who's thought a lot about like my body and comparison to other men's bodies and masculinity, I know that a lot of straight men aren't comfortable with having to perform the masculinity or even having the expectation set on them. And sometimes they only come to realize it after attempting to

perform it in a setting like that for a long time. And I just think like a corporate culture from that, it doesn't come from nowhere. Like it comes from the top down. And so, great, you fired him, that's great. What else are you doing to make sure that nobody else who works at your company is fostering an environment like this

because especially something that has to do with like bodies and like even just basically safety. A lot of like exercise and stuff like that is very emotionally charged for people. If you aren't instituting some kind of scenario where like people feel safe and protected, like it's really easy for a trainer to just not give a gay person their full attention because they don't want to come off like a fag. No, homo, no, homo. And then that person gets hurt. I mean, because they don't want to come off like a fag, no homo, no homo. And then that person gets hurt. I mean, it's just not unheard of. And if trans people have had such horrible experiences,

they're like, at some point, is there like a reckoning you're going to come to Dolores? Or what? Right. Yeah, I don't know. I get, I also have never been, particularly a fan of CrossFit. Like, it's not safe.

It's not safe. Like the fundamental core principle, or the core fitness principle of CrossFit. It's not safe. It's not safe. Like the fundamental core principle, or the core fitness principle of CrossFit, which is just high intensity training, exists in many other places and has existed pretty fast. You can put on an elliptical mission. Yeah, and so like, you know, if you're interested in something like CrossFit,

there are many other alternatives that do the same thing, which is help create the structures so that you can do high intensity. I've had great experiences at a Barry's boot camp. Yeah, high intensity interval training is great and that's the core thing that makes CrossFit like a good, quote unquote good, like weight loss tool or like strength tool. There are plenty of other places that do it and like you don't have to be indoctrinated into this extreme culture. That is like, is bad for your body ultimately, right? Equinox has free keels, and people are giving out hand jobs

in the steam room like, what? And why? So 300 bucks a month, but like, you make it back. You can't afford to not take any of that. That's true. That's true. I mean, I don't know. I'm telling. I've never stepped foot in an equinox because I can't afford that. I went for six months having convinced John that like if I shave there every day, that's a dollar a day in razors. I had really done some mental gymnastics to get myself in there. And then I had to like fake an injury

to get them to let me out, because I could not afford it anymore. But it was dream, it was such a nice. I mean, they always look so great from the out. Planet Fitness is fine though, it's $10 a month. I go to my one place, I do my exact workout. Yeah. And I went from being the poorest person in Equinox

to like the upper class of Planet fitness, and that feels pretty good. I'm at a blank man. Blinks are fine. It's a baby. It's a baby Equinox. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. It's like, you're fine. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't need to be better than fine.

No gym experience, unless you're shitting money, it needs to be better than fine. No. And if you want something hands on hands on, there's a berries. The last thing that I want is a personal trainer. So I'm totally fine where I am at Blink. You know what though? Sometimes I do dream about having a stern German woman.

Tell me, you're supposed to have been here. And I'll be like, oh my god, and my very DNA will respond to it, and I will be forced into shape. I mean, I, having been both a college athlete and a ballet dancer, I don't need any more of another personal training type of person in my life. No. My mom's a personal trainer, so I have shit with that too. I'm perfectly happy with just the internal monologue that happens.

I basically only do the optical for an hour day, but I've lost 30 pounds, bitch. And I just watch music videos from my teenage years on a loop, like the solid hour of them, because it's the only thing that just shuts out other thoughts. And I'm looking at these gorgeous bodies and I'm like, one day, but like that's my only thought over and over again. And then when I leave like all the self-hate and stuff will wash over me. But for that hour, I'm like, okay, it's my only life hack. So do that. Get YouTube bread and download a bunch of YouTube videos. All right. Next topic. These are two slightly lighter topics. We'll go, we'll keep getting lighter and we'll end on a good note.

And then you can get into a really fun interview with Josh. No, me fry. No, me fry. Anna Delvey, I am fascinated with. I agree. She is a con artist who got the social set in New York to believe she was one of them. And scammed a lot of businesses, which she shouldn't have done. But essentially called New York's bluff with money,

being like, if people think you have money, they'll just keep giving you more money and access to a certain point. She was very bad at most of the stuff that you would think a con artist would have to be good at, which is like forging documents and like being in the right place at the right time. Like she just basically went to some parties and almost successfully purchased a museum

and built an entire shopping complex. Just on like, her like main pitch was like, I wanna do a Soho House, but for art. And people were like, oh my God. And like just with an accent and a flip of her hair. Right, so she presented herself as a German ariest, right? Yeah, even though she's like Russian or Slovenian or some very Eastern European.

And she pretended herself as a German ariest because she moved there when she was 16 and knew some German, even though it was rough. And then she just hold up in some of New York's like nicest hotels, targeted newer ones because they wouldn't have policies in place to check that she had the finances to pay for things, created an Instagram account and just basically Ingrid Ghost West did her way through New York's socialites, meeting people, going to parties,

getting connected to the next person. And in a matter of months, established herself as like a real presence in the New York social scene, which by the way isn't real. Can you guys, for a second, take just a moment and maybe half of your fortune, and turn to the actual social scene of New York,

which is homeless people, and people living in studio apartment desperately trying to get by. But no, in New York, if you don't know, there is an entire culture of people who just spend money to impress other people with money constantly. And she basically went in there,

pretended she had a little bit of money, and almost got away with becoming an extremely wealthy respected person just on like saying she was. Being a great grifter. A great grifter. Yeah, there's a really interesting piece on the outline.com this week by Amanda Moll,

which is an incredible thesis statement. Yeah, Anna Delvie, our German grifter, and Elizabeth Holmes, who was the CEO of Theranos, which was that crazy blood-based startup. It was that scam that said it could take a drop of her blood and tell you all the health information you need tonight. And so they're both grifters, and the core of Amanda's thesis is that

you can tell that they're grifters because of their hair. Because of their hair, which is 100% true. And you should all read the piece. Read the piece. We're not gonna do it justice here, but essentially it's, hair is a long game. Yes. And it takes a lot of money and time and feedback

and effort and upkeep. And if you can't do all of those things, you're not. You're not gonna have beautiful rich people hair. You're not gonna have beautiful rich people hair. It's as someone who colors their hair regularly and has tight, tight, tight curls naturally. I will tell you that it takes a lot of time and energy

to do a man's hair to look like this. If you are someone who's hair it needs to be cared for for like three years in order to be of the length that like a woman's hair generally is. Yeah. That's a maintenance of the time, the money, all of those factors, just stability,

and having one hairdresser that you work with regularly, or you're unable to do it. Right. Very hard for grifters to have all of those things. What Amanda's telling grifters is, find a drag queen, get a great lace front. Yeah, you can. Every time you step out on a street,

all celebrities wear wigs, by the way, just so you know, extensions, wigs, every celebrity you see on the red carpet is almost everyone is wearing a wig of their own hair. I'm really excited for like the future dystopia when, um, you know, like celebrities have have high value for whatever reasons. So you have to like, whatever, kidnap them, use them, whatever, um,

and like the catalog is that? Whatever. The catalog of them is just like them with their natural hair. Ah! Right. Like instead of mug shots. Do you know how much I would pay

to see Juliana Margulese's natural hair again? Do you know how much money I would put on the table? Right, like instead of like a mug shot book that you like go to, it's the catalog of like this is who they really are. You're like holy. And then like part of the deal like when you know when you like hire them or whatever is like which hair do you want, which heir of hair do you want? Do you want Julian Margley's and like good wife hair? Or do you want this diet land here? I don't want the diet land here. It's terrifying.

Listen, as someone who I anyone who wants red hair, I welcome you to join the ginger army. Me and Lucille Ball are the same natural shade of red. But maybe Julianna Margulies should have asked about undertones, but was she picked a wig because Google it anyway, it's a good show. It's all right. Our final story other than the fact that nobody's listening to you and you've shown it's bad is that Sex in the City is its 20th anniversary, the show that changed everything, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. Did you watch Sex in the City? I didn't really watch Sex in the City, but like, at the time or now, at all.

At the time. I've watched a couple episodes, but like, I am not the target audience of Sex in the City. Where as I am. Correct. So, when Sex in the City was on, I was watching Dark Angel. I was watching Jessica Alba, Michael Weatherly, try to have chemistry. And James Cameron say TV could work, and then like, family on TV immediately.

Realizing it couldn TV. But the cultural Yeah, the cultural cornerstone that is sex sex in the city has always been been part of my life. To the point where like when I graduated college and I was like, do I go to L.A. Do I get a New York? I mean, that's the thing. It brought a generation of women and young people to New York, to live their dreams

in a way that like, I think kind of transformed the city. Yeah, and I would say that like, the reason why I ended going to LA first was like, I don't think I could sex in the city. Like, what I, like you at 21 coming out of college, I was like, there's no way I could Sarah Jessica Parker. It's a lot of time and effort. Like, I gotta go somewhere else first.

I gotta build up some cloud before I come here. And I haven't really, and I'm just here. Well, the thing is, is the nice thing about girls for whatever you want to say about Lena Dunham, which could be a separate podcast. I won't say her name two more times, or she'll appear. Is that it did change to a more realistic portrayal of what moving to New York is like.

Because Sex and City was a fairytale, and I don't think everyone grasped, that for all the mentions of her maxed out credit cards, like Carrie Bradshaw just wouldn't have never, it just wouldn't exist. It, no columnist could ever have that life. Let alone, you don't meet that many men and sleep with that many men.

It's just, and maybe you do, but most people do not come to New York and just have a date every day with a new person. And like, even if that was your job, it's almost impossible. You can't, the amount of money they spent on restaurants and fashion and you'd have to be anodelevy to try to keep that up.

But it did change the way that we talk about sex. It changed the way that people thought about their relationships. Female friendships. Female friendships. It's thought about self-analysis. Right. Journaling.

Yeah, and for all the people saying, like being, it wasn't very woke. Like for the time, it really tried to engage with issues that people weren't even talking about. Totally. And like as a gay person, it was one of like three shows that talked about gay sex with like any level of specificity.

And so it was like much, must see TV just from an educational perspective. Right. I also viewed it as like this like it's it was my version of like law and order. Right. Like the rule is that like any actor of like any level of like fame had to either have done law and order or sex in the city. Yeah. Yeah. I also say that about charmed. Every sea-less actor has appeared on charmed. Every single one. So that was always my reference point. It's like, I would find an actor that I loved,

and I'll be like, do they do an episode of Sex in the City? And I would like Google it. And I would watch the YouTube clip and be like, what kind of weird date did they portray for Sarah? The best is the Bradley Cooper episode. Single and fabulous question mark is such an incredible episode. Please watch that. Wait, did you watch the a star is born trailer?

Yes. Listen, I'm always here to support dogs. What are we doing? I am the not it's too early. First trailers are always kind of iffy. Yeah. The the shot of Bradley Cooper. Yeah. His car performing like street drag. Right. But like he's in his car right and he's like, Hey, and like, don't turn around, right? And he like pokes his head through the window.

And he just like, I don't know what they did. Look like death form over. But like he looks like I'm from the south. And he looks literally like I had a neighbor who also like owned a farm like a couple miles away from like our neighborhood. And like when he forgot to put sunscreen on. Yeah, yeah, like a handbag with a little oil on it. Like, I was like, was that on purpose? Or did you like accidentally just stand on the sun too long? It's tough. He looks rough.

Like, and I will say they tried to underdo her. Yes. But like her injectables and basic plastic surgery, like we'll never allow for her to look anything, but perfectly symmetrical and alien. Well, it's the same, I think like the closest analogy to me is not the barbished ray sandwich. No, it's share. It's share, but also Judy Garland.

Yeah. Yeah. Crazy, beautiful. For a star is born. Yeah. And I was like, no, but it's like shit. Gaga is like share Julie, Julie Clousner, who I do a podcast called How was your week with Josh doesn't hear to stop me from plugging in.

Please let me do it. Um, always says that if, if you could be anyone, you should be sharing the 70s and just photograph everything. Yeah. But Gaga's like that. Like she's both a construction, both genetically and through plastic surgery. Right. A perfect symmetricalness and like alien looking beauty.

Yes. And like, you could throw, I mean, she tried. She dressed up as a lobster and she looked like, like, you could throw, I mean, she tried, she dressed up as a lobster and she looked like like that. And like, it's not even beauty like from that, like sort of, like Gigi Hadid school of beauty. It's the like, she looks like a specific person. You would never confuse her for someone else, but it's just like a level of like, you're just stunning. So they like put her in shorts and like funky hair. And they're like, she's like, I'm not pretty. And you're like, what cause your eyebrows aren't plugged here?

Like, come on. And so yeah, I'm gonna see this movie, but I'm already, like it's giving me like whiffs of burlask. I'll say. Wow. Well, I mean, like an Oscar-Bady burlask. But the first shot of Gaga is her performing on a stage

in what looks like buriless, right? Like she has like those really insane, like tiny painted eyebrows on. Like Briless, by way of I know who killed me. Yes, and so like, I don't know, I am interested in Bradley Cooper as a director, because like, if you actually hear him in conversation, he's quite intelligent. Yes. I think it's just a really bold-ass move to have your first year of tutorial.

Be a star-ass-born. Be a star-ass-born. With Lady Gaga. And yourself. In Clint Eastwood style. Singing. It's so weird. All of the songs are recorded live.

Yeah, that's so weird. So not having really heard Bradley Cooper saying, that was the most amount of singing Bradley could have ever heard. And I was like, it's not bad. No. But most actors can carry it too. Right.

But I'm also like, was that the best choice? I will say the casting Gaga was smart, though, because if anyone can share a live on a studio set with all that shit going on, it's someone who sings upside down with like glitter boobs or whatever is happening. So like, it's like her pink. Who's the two people who can sing in any setting, even Ariana Grande would need like to be in the right angle with breath support and like the winds blowing the right way. Like Gaga can sing underwater. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, all of this to say, that's

the news. I'm trying to like the cats away. The The mice will play. WDC was an absolute night. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my god. And if you want to release a fucking better MacBook, I mean a MacBook without a butterfly. If you want to hear some smart tech that's not coming from Ryan or me, the dispatch did an episode with our future section editor Casey Johnston and writer Paris Martin No where they break down wwdc so that's your tech. It's a nice. It's a big mess and oh by the way I had to wipe all of my Apple products all of them and start as set up as new Yeah, no restore because of one iMessage bug that fucked everything up.

So for like two days, I was missing appointments, I was not answering email because it just wasn't signed into everything correctly. And like, all of which to say, like, get it, the fuck together, release a keyboard that is functional. Like, get your software to the point that like it works. Right, I'm gonna tell you a secret. I've never had an iPhone and it was only working at the outline that I got my first Apple laptop.

Because I refuse. I refuse. You came in at the worst time. I know. Apple's that's the thing. Apple shit was like a appliance level. I had never had any issues. Rock solid.

Ever since I've been a baby nerd, I refused to buy Apple products. Oh, Steve Jobs died, that's what it was. That's what it was. But the thing is, the older I get, the more, I don't think that I kept thinking, like you're getting older and smarter. Now you know that like one company owning everything was silly and like, you know, you

can get better Bluetooth headphones if they're not beats and like, oh, that's true. But I also think the products are just getting worse and like less reliable. At somebody who became the core troubleshooter for my family's Apple products, but never bought my own. I like. Are you, do you, is there anything you like about owning iPhone or MacBook? Well, I've never owned an iPhone before.

Oh, you don't have an iPhone, that's right. Yeah, I have a Google Pixel too, the small size, because I have tiny hands. Mm-hmm. And yeah, and all of my, like interaction with Apple products is either because of school or because my family owns it. And now, now I have, as my work laptop, a MacBook Air. And it's fine.

It's fine. The thing is, it's nice that I don't have to do a lot of extra work to be compatible with other people, which is what I have a Surface 3 is my primary like normal laptop. And like working with creatives in New York, they all have like Macbooks and it's just like I have to do about like two and a half extra steps to make sure that they can like read the things that I said in them. But I feel like I've thought about going to a Windows PC just because of you cheaper and more compatible with a couple of things that like I just graphics cards and stuff, but

I feel like I'm gonna have to get two computers because Windows has changed Revolutionarily so many times since I had used it as a daily driver and yes, ultimately you can pull up Every legacy thing and Microsoft has ever done every time But that doesn't help me. It just makes things more complicated and confusing. And Windows isn't very cohesively built. It's not like Android where you're like, well, the alternative is great.

It's like the alternative is fine. The alternative works. I would say that with the new Windows OS, they, the search is so robust that even if you haven't been on a Windows computer in a while And you haven't needed to like figure out file tree structures You can just search and you're gonna get most of what you need Yeah, I mean that's what I do a lot of on iOS is like I'm not hunting for icons because this interface is fucking horrible

Having to put okay, this is the last comment on making then we got a wrap up Having to put hundreds of apps because I use a lot of apps for productivity into those little stupid fucking iOS folders took me like an hour and a half for each device. I wanna fucking kill them. I'm so frustrated. I, so based, like my normal process with computers is I am like really, really organized with my files and my

file like my file trees. It is so hard to do that on my MacBook to the point where like I am scheduling like an hour in the next like two weeks where I'm just gonna organize files. Oh don't put any on the desktop because then it syncs to iCloud and you'll have to buy iCloud storage and when you move it and then it isn't synced and then sometimes it backs up to the like backup drive. And other times it won't because it's not iCloud synced. This sounds like the worst.

I am ready to kill everyone. Use Google Docs. That's the only product in my life that consistently works. Have a great day everybody. Here's Josh and Nomi Frye. They have a wonderful conversation that I wish I'd been there for. Bye.

Bye. What happens if you play monopoly with real money? We've got to pay the pipe. Okay, let's pay the pipe. There are no true lunches in this completely reinvented game of an object. What does space sound like? What happens when you overwork yourself? Do you believe that work-related stress has increased? It reflects the fact of how little value we place on the well-being of human days. The Outline World Dispatch. Every Monday, Tuesday, we bring you a new story on the theme of power, culture, or the future.

And picked from theoutline.com. Find us an Apple Podcast, Google Play, Spotify, your Amazon Alexa Flash Briefing, or wherever you download your podcasts. Also, you can say, okay, Google, play me the news, and we're right there. Oh my god, yeah! Make your the news and we're right there. Oh my God, yeah. Make your mornings a little weirder. My guest today is Nomi Frye. She's a staff writer for The New Yorker. You may have heard of it a small publication

that's starting to make a lot of waves. And she writes about culture, politics, mostly popular culture, I would say. Weird celebrity stuff. Yeah. Thank you for being here. Oh yeah, thank you for having me. It's my pleasure popular culture. We're celebrity stuff. Yeah. And yeah, thank you for being here. Oh, yeah, thank you for having me. It's my pleasure and we've been, it's been a long time booking this, so I'm excited that

we finally done. Yes, I'm glad we're finally doing it. Yeah, so yeah, your range is fairly sweeping, but pop culture is. Yeah, an American pop culture, mostly, I would say. You weren't about French pop culture, friends. No, I know nothing, unfortunately, about French pop culture, although I would like to. It's very sophisticated, and you wouldn't understand it.

Yeah, right. From what I gather. Yeah. And so before you were at the New Yorker, you've just got there three months ago, four months ago. Yeah, yeah, just three months. You were at the New York. Actually, like, three months in a week, yeah, just just three months. You read the New York three months in a week maybe really

congratulations. Thank you. I'm at the point where it's still like you know counting weeks. Yeah, because it's so it's a reason. Just think someday you'll be like I'm so sick of the New Yorker. I hope not. But that's like all jol the progression of all jobs are like you're so excited. Yeah. And then you're like, ugh, the New Yorker again. I know. It's like that. Remnik's like, no, I'm just, I, my, I guess sort of my stick is that I, well, you know, it's a very classic thing and it's not just my stick.

It's many, many people's stick that like, you know, as soon as you start doing something, you're like, you know, oh, what's the big deal? Not that I don't think the New Yorker is a big deal, but it's not a big deal for, like, before that. Refected the avid listener to this podcast. Yeah, I hope you find it. No, I just, he's like, oh my God.

It's a very big deal, David. No, it really is, but it's now that I'm doing it, it seems like anyone can do it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm doing it, it seems like anyone can do it. You know what I'm saying? I'm just like, you know, that's not true. And don't knock yourself. Before I was just like, oh my God, the New Yorker. You know, it's like the most, for me, it was like such a dream.

And I'm still like, I feel very excited and honored to be there, but also because I'm doing it. And I, you know, I and honored to be there, but also because I'm doing it. And I, you know, I probably both, like, think very highly of myself and not highly at all of myself. Yeah, I know that feeling. It's a weird combination.

Like I'm a genius, but I hate myself, you know. Is that okay? I feel like that's kind of a Jewish thing. Yeah, maybe. You're Jewish, right? Yes, I'm Jewish. I don't want to dox you here. I don't know if you're trying to keep this secret. Based on your

Instagram, I feel like you're not. And I don't know, your Instagram is especially Jewish. But I feel like hating yourself and loving yourself is like I have the same. And I've always attributed that to my parents, but now I've come to understand that it might be more of a cultural thing. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely my parents as well, not not in a bad way. It's just I think the way they think of themselves and probably the way I've, you know, I've modeled myself after. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so, so all of which is to say that now that I'm doing it, I'm both like

still like incredibly impressed as well as completely. Like, what's wrong with you that you took me to write for you? You know, that's a real thing. So I get it. I get it. It's a, I guess that's a kind of an imposter syndrome thing, which, yeah, for sure. I think everybody has imposter syndrome now though.

It's like, you can't even, you're not, it's like, sure, I guess it's imposter syndrome, but it's a very common problem for the talented, for But before that you were within your times, you were a team magazine. Yes, I was a team magazine and I was copy chief there for like about four years, just slightly shy of four years. So you were responsible for fixing grammar and style. Right, you were like the person who made people seem like they knew how to use the English language. Yeah, although of course there were editors there who... Oh, sure, sure.

We know where the hard work is really happening. Right, where the magic happens. They give you the big, garbled mess and you've got a big sense of it. Yeah, so yeah, that's what I did. And then also I was always writing sort of on the side. Yeah, well you did a lot of... I feel like you wrote for the New Yorker before you became a staff writer. You did a few things.

I did, I want a few things. I want to say, and I'm going to talk about some of those things. Did you, you did a Spencer Pratt thing? Was that for T or was that for? No, that was for the New Yorker. That was for the New Yorker. Yeah.

So you hung out with Spencer Pratt. I did hang out with Spencer Pratt. Yeah, I have, Spencer Pratt was like, many, many years ago, I was like, I emailed him or DMed him or something. Really? And I was like, hey, do you want to do my podcast? And he was like, I'd love to. And then like, I was like, I emailed him or DMed him or something. Really? And I was like, hey, do you want to do my podcast? And he was like, I'd love to.

And then like, I was like, let's book this up. And he was like, I'm not doing podcasts anymore. And I was like, oh, I'm so close to doing a podcast of Spencer, brother. Maybe he'll do it now. But this was before the Spencer Heidi, this was like. Renaissance. Yes, this was like when they were still,

right. It wasn't that long after the hills had ended. Right. And there was still a the hills had ended. Right. And there was still a lot of bad blood. Yeah. You know, but then everybody realized that actually they were the best and everybody else in the hills was terrible. Right. And so they've had their resurgence. I follow him on Instagram. How long did you hang out with him for? I hung out with him for a day. And we, like I was at their house. So this was, now they live back in LA,

but at the time when I did it, which was just about slightly over a year ago, I think they were living in Santa Barbara, at his parents' beach house. And they lived there for a few years, sort of like recuperating and you know, sort of like saving money, I guess, and you know, being away from LA. And so we went to, um, I spent some time with them at the house, which was like right on the beach, very, very nice,

like a very nice lifestyle. They have like several dogs, small dogs. And then, and Heidi was still pregnant then. They didn't have the baby. Now they have baby gunner. But and then we Spencer took me to this like very posh. What's it called? Oh my god, I can't believe I, it's like this like like Oprah goes there. It's in Manacito. It's like this really nice, it's like a resort, but also they have a restaurant. And it has like gorgeous gardens. I'm like totally blanking on this. Yeah, but you and your Spencer spent the day.

Well, we spent, yeah, we had like lunch there and sort of we walked around the grounds and he has this like big obsession with hummingbirds. Yes, I, So the grounds have a lot of hummingbirds. Yes, so the grounds have a lot of hummingbirds. Okay, yeah. So I've watched a lot of his hummingbird videos.

I mean, he puts, I mean, he maybe has to do it anymore. I kind of stopped watching Instagram stories because I don't have enough time in the day. It's kind of a lot. I find it. He does a lot of content. And he does a lot of content. Like, I've looked at his stories and they're like, you know the little marks that show how many stories are?

And they're tiny. And it's like their dots. They were like periods, just a row of periods at the top. He really does a lot. I like, I don't have time. You have like 65 stories. Yes. And I think they go away after like 24 or 48 hours.

So it's not like they were like, it's hanging out. Now I think they can, yeah, now you can save them, right? I know. Yes, you can have your famous stories with that. I've done three stories. Like I just don't have. Some people don't do that.

I do, I used to do more. I feel like I do less now because I find that it's sort of puts, like it's sort of a little bit burdensome, maybe. Yeah. For people to be like, I don't know. It's what you get to produce your own little show. It's just a lot of work. It's kind of a lot of work.

I follow you on Instagram. I mean, I've obviously followed a lot of people on Instagram. Spencer is one of the people I follow. I'm interested. I'm not going to just live I carefully through you, but I have been forever interested in Spencer. I mean, you always like the villains, all the villains on reality shows the best, like Puck.

Do I think it's like the original, Puck, and maybe there's one on the original Real World. Like this is going way back for the- You mean New York? Yeah, the Real World. Oh, let's talk about it. Real World One. Oh, I'm ready. I mean, people don't remember how fucking raw

the first Real World was, like- Remember when Becky slept with a producer and they had to have the show. Yes. She had an affair with one of the like camera and band or like one of the producers. But also there was that whole weird like racist drama that where they like kicked Kevin out of the house because. Because he wasn't. Did they kick him?

I think he got kicked out like and. No, I think they were, okay, so what happened? The Southern girl was like, she got yelled at by him or something and felt unsafe. No, that was, I think you're mixing up. Is Kevin on a different, uh? No, Kevin was, Kevin was on the first season, but I think they were unsatisfied with him

because he didn't spend enough time in the apartment. Oh, is that what happened? Yeah. I thought there was some confrontation with him. I think that was in the second season in LA where there was David who was also black. And he was like a standup comic, maybe, or something. And she dragged Tammy who was then there's later on.

Oh, God, you're right. Yes, yes, that was the second season. That was San Francisco with Pock, right? San Francisco was three. Three. Pock, what was two? Los Angeles. Oh, right. Forgotten season. Oh, what was two Los Angeles? Oh right?

For gotten season. Oh my god. Yeah, it is like my brain just paved over it. I know because it was really depressing and kind of no fun Is it the one with the cat the guy who's like the cowboy wanted to be a actor or whatever? You want to be a country singer? He was gonna be in a movie called slow burn I remember the name of the movie because he like went for like a he went for an audition and oh my god It didn't get it and then there Slow Burns, a good name for a movie. I don't know if it ever became a thing, but holy shit, I'm like having crazy flashbacks now to Ellen. It was amazing.

I mean, I feel like I, like New York was amazing and like very, you know, seminal obviously, and important. And then San Francisco was amazing. I remember I watched San Francisco so many times. And that was... That was great. That was groundbreaking television. Yeah. I mean, they threw everything out at you at San Francisco was amazing. I remember I was so many times that that was that was great. That was great. Yeah. I mean, they threw everything out at you at San

Francisco. I mean, you had, I mean, there's a Pedro who had AIDS, which was a huge story line. Right. Not on the show, but no, but later. Shortly after. Yeah. Not that long. He got married and pop and pop was like, recently died, by the way. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. This is very dark. Yes. And like, pop was this crazy antagonist, but also like unbelievably entertaining. Like very much a, I mean, I was definitely died by the way. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh wow, this is very dark. Yes. And like, Pock was this crazy antagonist, but also like unbelievably entertaining, like very much a, I mean, Spencer is, Spencer is Pock. I mean, that is, there's an archetype.

Although I would say, the difference is, one of the differences, yes, there is an archetype in this too that he, they were both antagonists. Yeah. They're both one. But it's also, I think, that Pock lived and died on nagging girls. I don't remember. And he had, remember, there was Rachel who

was the Republican. She was like, oh my god. She was Hispanic. She was Republican from a very conservative, like wealthy family. And she was. Have she watched this recently? No, but I watch it. I just remember it really. She was Republican from a very sort of conservative like wealthy family and She watched this recently. No, but I watch it. I just remember it really like you're making me want to watch it But I also think this is incredibly depressing like hearing remembering what the people who the people were and what they did It was like how she has she's married to like a Republican

Congressman, I think they live in like maybe Arizona and they have five kids Wow, because she was like deep she was Catholic, she was a virgin. And she, but she fell in love with a Rob bike messenger who like, all they do, they hook up. I don't think they hooked up, but I think he was like, you know, nagging her for all. Yeah. He was worth.

It's a good strong move. I mean, really strong move. And he kept a courtship. He called her Chubs. And then she would go like, I'm not fat. Yeah, that's really strong move. But it comes to courtship. He called her Chubs, and then she would go like, I'm not fat. Yeah, that's a slam dunk. Just a slam dunk.

That's a, that is a, that is a school yard move that I barely, I mean, it works every time. It works every time. It works every time. It works every time. It works every time. It works every time.

It works every time. It works every time. It works every time. It works every time. It works every time. It works every time. It works every time. It works every time. It works every time. It works every time. I mean, but it's interesting to think about, first off, I mean, the memories that you're bringing up now, I mean. You're going into a food state. I am, it's like, I'm really fucked up over thinking.

First off, thinking about LA. And then, now I'm remembering London, which is also a total shit show. The German DJ. Remember what's the last? There was also a villain, a blonde villain on the punk guy. The punk guy. Who like, cut his lip open.

He had some insane lip injury. I think it was his tongue. A tongue, yes. He was like rocking too hard like bit his tongue. He bit his own tongue. Yeah, because that's the kind of, he's a performance artist. Yeah, yeah, there was, that was a weird season

because it was like, there was, it was him. Then there was like the German DJ from Berlin. I believe Lars or Lars. Yes, Lars. And then there is like the girl who is the singer There is a she's American maybe yeah, there was an American who oh in the model Jacinda Jacinda who's an actress later was on bridge Jones. Yeah, it's number two I think she's like on a show now. She's on a show

I think she's like on a show. Now she's on a show. No, she's on a career. She went on to have a career. She's like an actor. Yeah. Sometimes I have you're on MTV reality show. I'll start the doors of it for you. If you're beautiful, if you're a tall, beautiful model

that I was also on the MTV reality show. You know what? Sky is really important for me. Miami. No, Las Vegas. Okay, I don't, I think I, I. 2002, I think. I think I was out at that point.

I hit, yeah, what, when did the, when did the Hill start? That was my reintroduction to any MTV reality. Well, Laguna Beach started in 2002. I only watched a little bit of Laguna Beach. I didn't really fuck with it. 2003. And then so that went on for like, you know,

two or three years, I guess, and then the Hill started. So it was like 2005, four, six, six, and six. Anyhow, that was my, so, so yeah, I guess, and then the Hill started. So it was like 2005 or six, and so on. Anyhow, that was my, so yeah, I mean, the Hills, I was just talking about this with Brandy Jensen, who is our social media editor and also loves the Hills. And she actually wrote about this for the cut about the end of the Hills.

Oh, I read that, that was good. Yeah, which is, I also think about a lot. But I think it's interesting, like Spencer is like this villain, but now he's become like kind of a hero. I mean, one of the things that happened with Spencer is that he became like kind of a pop culture critic in his own, like he started commenting on like drama that was happening on TMZ, and people really like that. Yeah, because he's really smart about it.

And insider's perspective, you don't never hear Brad Pitt talk about other celebrities. No, which is too bad. It would be amazing. It would be amazing, It would be amazing. Yeah. The thing is, and I've said this before, I mean, people, I don't know, like, probably, I just say it so much because I feel it's so deeply that I was just love to know everything. You know, not to use it in a bad way.

You just want to know. I just want to know. Like, what would you want to know about celebrity? Just like everything, like their drug use, their... Oh, like the bad stuff. Yeah, I mean, sure, because the good stuff. I'm not judging them, but like, you want to know. Yeah, I mean, I want to know who they're fucking

and you want to know what drugs they're doing. Yeah, how would they feel about, really feel about themselves? Polic, their political views. Their political views, like what they like, what they don't like, their insecurities, everything. I have a question on that. Sort of on that, I think you're actually fairly well suited to answer it.

Do you think Tom Cruise has ever seen a cell phone bill? They can woman. No, she can. Well, my question is way less. Alora and I, my wife, Laura June, the writer, have an ongoing argument. I am like, Tom Cruise has never seen a cell phone bill. Right. Would he's never seen it doesn't know what they look like wouldn't know what to do with it if he had one. Do you think that's true or false?

That's probably true. I'm matching him opening his mail. Like imagine Tom Cruise going to a mailbox. Yeah, because I mean, especially like opening his mail, you know, is something probably that he does have some history with since, you know, male has always been happening, you know, when he was younger, yeah. Right. When he was a 20-year-old, he was coming up. Sure. Or like in his early 20s or whatever before he became like really, really big. Right. Then, you know, he did that probably, but a cell phone bill, because that- By the time cell phones were a thing.

The time cell phones were a thing, and then 90s, you know, or I mean, probably maybe the 80s for like, you know, You've to imagine someone handed them a thing and they're like, talk on this and he's not like involved in the, but I, I, like, I wonder about, well, I want to think about a lot. And since you know a lot of celebrities, I know that, I know, I know,

John Mayer, which we're going to talk about in a second. But, but I, I often wonder,. But I often wonder, to your point, the drugs and the sex stuff is obviously more interesting. But I'm also curious to know, I often think when I see a celebrity couple, I learn Lauren, I talk about this too. What is the dinner conversation? What do they talk about?

Massive celebrities. I know relatively, I'm not bragging. What is the dinner conversation? Like what do they just, what do they talk about? Yes. I mean massive celebrities. I mean, I know relatively, you know, I'm not bragging. I know famous people like who are not like Tom Cruise level. Sure. You know Spencer Pratt is not like a huge celebrity. I mean, he's very well known. Yes, but of course, but he's a regular person.

He's still going to the grocery store and not be totally a cost. He still goes to whatever he does. Does he forget, I wonder if he gets spit on by people. There's gotta be some like, people who are hates. But yeah, I guess it would be a day out of that. I think maybe in the past, possibly, but, but now people like, oh, so another thing is, so I spent that day with him, but then the last time I was in LA, this was like in November,

I met him in Heidi for coffee. And they brought my friend Brett and they brought the baby and we just hung out with them in Santa Monica. No, no, for no reason. For no reason, for just like to say hi and Brett is like a huge fan, is like big into reality TV. So I was like, were you just like, I'm going to bring you? Yeah, yeah, I was just like, I'm going to bring you and he was like, this is like, this

is like the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. Sounds amazing. Are they, I mean, it's, it's been so cool. Yeah, he's cool. He's funny. You know, he's like, he's, he's very, he's as you would imagine him. Right. I imagine him to be a lot like how he is.

Yeah, he's exactly like that. I mean, I think what is, what is charming about the villains is that they are probably, they present more real than a lot of the people on reality shows. Like Lauren from The Hills is the phonious to phonious. It's so phony. Nothing sincere or real about her at all. And yet, I think that Spencer and Pock and a lot of other, mostly horrible men,

seem legitimately bad, but they also seem legitimate. And I think that's refreshing. No, he's exactly like it. And he's's refreshing. He's exactly like it. And he's very entertaining. His use of language is very entertaining. He's just like irrepressible. Like he would see you and be like, play.

Yeah. You know, like he'd be. The crystal shit is real. I think so. I mean, it's also a racket, right? It's a racket, but it's also real. I think he does believe in it. And he always wears a crystal.

And this is like way before I think he started like selling it, you know, but then it's like his thing. It's a short walk from being in a snake oil to selling snake. Right. Exactly. Yeah, the crystal stuff's interesting to me. I mean, I understand, you know, wellness and self-care and all that. But you know, I, I mean, it might be a bit of a bridge too far for me. Yeah. Maybe. All right.

So, but your focus, your, your, your interest in pop culture. Yeah. Tell me about where this, obviously we're all, I mean, I think everybody is, I mean, maybe not everybody, but a lot of people are very curious about the rich and famous. Yes. Oh, yeah.

But for you, you've taken your curiosity by the rich and famous, you've made it a career out of it. You are, you have insinuated yourself into the world of the rich and famous. I mean, I don't know about that. You may not reach, and maybe not famous, maybe. I don't know, hey, just grab Spencer's, like, has some money and a little bit of it.

Well, I'm interested in it. I think, you know, I don't have connections to a lot of these people, but I definitely, like, write about them and think about them for sure. You've written about politics recently, I mean, you've done so many. I mean, because now, I mean, it wouldn't be my natural,

although, you know, I'm from Israel and I used to, one of my first jobs was in the early, yeah, early 2000s, I worked at in the foreign affairs desk in Halitz, the Israeli newspaper. And so, I have some background in being like, I wasn't a reporter. I was like, you know, an editor and translator, but like I, you know, it's not like I'm totally like totally removed from like politics or that sort of coverage or writing, but I think it's not my definitely not my natural fit,

but now that America is run by, who it's run by. A reality show. A reality show. Star. Then suddenly I found myself writing about the Trump administration and like, I know I wrote like about Marco Rubio Skyping with Jake Paul after Parkland, you know, like, I mean, you know, stuff like that. It's so crazy. It truly is. The thing you just said, Marco Rubio Skyping with

Jake Paul, Jake Paul, not Logan. Not Logan. He's the one with the suicide forest. With the forest. Right. They're both so great. Yeah. Also lawn by the way. Right.

Long village. Oh, yeah. The most well, I mean, Trump, blonde, blonde villain. I mean, I think it's fairly classic. I'll show in like, also in like, you know, John News movies like, like the job and pretty, and pretty, yeah, and pretty in pink like the James Bader character, dirty blonde, dirty blonde, it's true. Yeah, but

definitely like on this, on this background, not not dark cared. Yeah, and like, oh, yeah, I'm trying to say, warlock blonde, yeah, Julian Sands, Julian Sands, and the famous role of the warlock from the film warlock. Yes I didn't think about that. That's right. You don't realize it the bad guys in Harry Potter all blonde right? What do they call it like they? I'm not a big Harry Potter. No, neither am I that's why I'm asking you. Yeah, I know I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I know. I don't know. I have written those I don't know. I don't know. I have to say. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. This is the work. I'm sorry. I don't want to be a jerk, but it's horrible to describe yourself like that. I've never had any interest in fantasy. But blonde villains throughout the ages, they're definitely there. Wait a second. What were we talking about? We were talking about Jake and Logan Paul. Oh, yeah. But you wrote about the p-tap recently. I wrote about the sort of. Yeah. So what would we imagine the p-tape to be. I wrote about Kim last week. I wrote about Kim Kardashian and the White House. And Trump.

But this is it. I mean, you look at what's happening with Kanye or with Kim meeting with Trump. I mean, we are in, I'd say, late stage fall of the empire sort of stuff. Yeah. And it is like, it is, you know, increasingly like, you've seen the film Idiocracy. I hate sighting it because it seems like such a dumb thing to cite now. It is, you know, increasingly like, you've seen the film, Idiocracy, I, I, well, I hate sighting it because it seems like such a dumb thing to cite now,

but in the film, Idiocracy, which if you're listening, you haven't seen it, you should see it. The president is a pro wrestler. Yeah. And nobody remembers how to farm. Yeah. They're trying to grow vegetables with gatorade instead of water, just as it's a little taste.

Yeah, I mean, we're sort of not that far off. You know, we're not. I mean, it's really, it's a little taste. But we're sort of not that far off. You know, we're not. I mean, it's really, it's kind of crazy. And I keep saying, you know, I was just talking to my husband about it. And we were saying how, if it wasn't so horrible and so horrifying, there's just like, this is like, this administration, it's like, there's so many laughs. It's like, so horrifying. There's just like, this administration is like,

there's so many laughs. It's like so incredible. Like the characters are so incredible. The level of discourse is so entertaining. Just the stunts pulled. The idiocy, the bumbling, the bad lies. I mean, it's just like, it's unbelievable. It's comedy. It's comedy. It's pure comedy. And it's like, you's like, it's like, it's like, it's unbelievable. It's comedy.

It's comedy. It's pure comedy. And it's like, you know, obviously not, I mean, it's obviously terrible. And I'd much rather it's not funny at all. It's not funny. And I'd much rather it not be happening. But I, I wish somehow, like the, the sort of the comedy of it could be retained without it actually happening or something. Yeah. I mean, that would be a dream. I mean, everything up to Trump winning could have been taken as you could have looked back and been like what a sort of what a comedy the Republican party has become. Yeah.

But now it's like they've pushed somehow leapt over the barrier between what seemed possible, what seemed impossible and what was possible. And now we're in like, they've shifted the comedy into like a place where it has impact. Yeah. Like the comedy before was like, oh, look at these bumbly and idiots trying to become president.

Yeah, well, these are actual people who have and it has, of course, an effect on immigration and has an effect on people's lives. It's very terrible. And we've been watching the Fourth of State, the documentary about the time. How is it? It's good.

I like it. It's interesting. And it covers the time until, at least up to now, I'm not sure we're in the third episode or something. And it covers the time when I was until, at least up to now, I'm not sure where in the third episode or something. And covers the time when I was at the time. So it obviously not in the newsroom. Like I was at T. So it's obviously different. But it's sort of interesting to see

because I was there in a certain sense. But it's also crazy because it covers a time not that long ago, like eight months ago, ten months ago, you know. And yet it seems like ancient history and all the things that have happened that are so terrible are just like, you know, like gris for the middle, like it's kind of like, has, oh, you know, it happened and it's, this is just, of things are happening so fast that you just have forgotten. Yeah. No, I mean like, like, you know, it was like Charlottesville, right? So the last episode we watched was Charlottesville. The episode was called American Carnage. And it was

about, you know, so it showed like the, the, the neonazi protest where like the, the car was driving into the pro, you know, the, um, and Trump saying there are bad people, good people, very good people on that side. And, you know, there was, I condemned the violence on both sides, et cetera, et cetera, all the things that happened. And I had forgotten almost, you know, because who can keep up? I was just like, I was crying, you know, I was watching it and I was like, oh my God, remember, this is terrible. It's not. It's not. Yeah. It's, it's, I was just thinking of Charlottesville because I was at this conference, the code conference, which is a big tech conference. And where was it? In California, ranches, ranches, pal. Rancher relax. No, ranches, pal's vertes. Is I think it's a, It's like it's beautiful.

It's on this beautiful resort on the ocean. And every time I'm there, I'm like, wouldn't it be nice to be here and not at a fucking conference where you're like, you know, schmoozing and confronting people? Yeah. But Lindemick Man was interviewed. I don't know if you know who Lindemick Man. This is a great example of our reality now being like a TV show.

Lindemick Man is the wife of Vince McMahon, the founder of WWE. And Linda McMahon, who was a big trump donor, and the friends of Trump is now the head of small business for America. Okay. She's like the whatever person who leads the small business alliance of the government has been. So she got a job. She got a job because that's how it works. You donate to Trump and then he gives you a job

that you're unqualified for. Of course. I mean, I guess she's a business person. Anyhow, I was, but I asked her if I was like this, his policy, you know, does his feelings on Mexicans being rapists and, you know, drug dealers and, um, on, uh, you know, banning trans people in the military and, you know, his discrimination in him, you know, siding with neo-nazis and Charlottesville. I was like, does that affect any of your work,

you know, working with small businesses since, you know, you want to have diversity in that same thing? She's like, no, of course not. And she's like, you're taking them out of context. And it's like, it's like, actually, exactly in context. But it's like, but I remember, because I was like thinking when I wanted to ask her, like, what will I ask her? What I really wanted to do is,

I mean, honestly, I just wanted to remind her that she works for a person who's a piece of shit and by proxy, she is a piece of shit. But also, I was curious to know like, if somebody who's Mexican descent comes and wants alone, like is there any policy there, you know, obviously. But it's just interesting like to think about, like oh, what are all the things that he's done?

I was trying to think of all of the ways that he's been racist or discriminatory or awful. And it was like, there were so many options. Like I wanted to mention like the thing that he did when he was a bit, you know, marking C on people's names, like the New York Times reported this time about how when he was, you know, doing real estate in the 70s, he was sued by the federal government twice for discriminating against people of color, right? And anyhow, it's just like there's so much of it you kind of forget.

Yeah. It's overwhelming. Yeah. And I do think it's, it has obviously been accelerated by the internet. I mean, there is like the New Yorker writes a lot about this is interesting, like the New Yorker is writing so much more about politics than it's ever done before. I mean, Remnik is like on a regular basis, it has a, a editorial about the destruction of America. You know, like it is like, it's a-

And the website as well, I think that, you know, it's as far as I know, I don't know behind the scenes, but it just seems to me from what is happening that there's obviously been a concerted push to make it. We have a newsroom, you know, to follow the news cycle in a much more accelerated way. Yeah, I mean, it's one of the things for... We launched... We launched the outline in like December of 2016. It really is like, you know, the beginning of 2017. And we didn't, I didn't think Trump was going to win at all. When you were planning.

We were like, yeah, we had plans that were like on election night, you know, we were in like Slack together. Yeah. And it was like, uh, yeah. What is going on? You know what I mean, there's, yeah. There's so was like, uh, yeah. What is going on? You know what I mean? There's, there's so many things that so many stories that we covered

and so many, you know, things that we wrote about this pet in the past year that I would never imagine. Honestly, that we would have been touching on. You know, there are like stories we've written about Trump and about immigration and about. And it's just like, wow, I did not think these were gonna be the topics of the moment. I thought that, I thought there will be other things to debate.

Sure. But it is interesting. So in the, and we have to talk about John Mayer, because I keep talking about it. Of course. Of course. But in this moment of this kind of like enormous sort of emotional and societal strife that we're in America,

or by the way, do you have dual citizenship in Israel and here? So is there ever, I don't feel like Israel is an insane place to be. Yes, I know. It's only been, it's only gotten more dangerous to be in the Middle East at all or anywhere near the Middle East in the age of Trump. It's very discouraging because when I left Israel, this was, I came to America in 2002 as an adult. I mean, as a child, I spent time in America,

but with my parents, because my dad worked here, but as an adult, I came to go to grad school in 2002. And I came to go to school, but I also, in a way, I think, was very, I was, I was discouraged about Israel in a variety of ways. I mean, it'll always be where I'm from. And my family is there. It's a place that's important to me. But I wanted some relief from the kind of like tense political and ethical questions that the plays constantly like confronts you with.

And I came here and I was like, yeah, America, I mean, relatively speaking, then there were the bush years, of course. Right, you hit a good time. Why did you get 2002? 2002. Slam down. Yeah.

Yeah. So it was right after, right after, 9-11, right after Bush was elected for the first time. So that was, but that was like, you felt, I mean, it was discouraging, but also I was new and I was a little bit, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't, I didn't even have a green card that only happened later. So it still felt like a bit of a relief. And then of course, Obama years where you didn't feel like it was different, you know, it was going in a different direction. But now I'm like, wait, this is like, how did I find myself

back and like BB land, you know, in a weird way? Like, why is this happening? No, it's crazy. I mean, it is crazy. Yeah. It's crazy how rapidly the change from, oh, I mean, you know, you felt like, well, it's, you feel like, well, these things are relatively, you know, there's a bush was very bad and, you know, but like, it felt so stable for so long post bush, like, well, we've come out of this kind of really dark period. And, you know, there was all this sort of these notions about Trump at the beginning where

it was like, well, maybe actually he's been saying all this stuff, but he's from New York and he's kind of been a Democrat part of his life. Yeah, he doesn't care. He's going to be a... He's this all bullshit and he's going to get in and actually be like a real kind of centrist sort of person. And, you know, obviously that's not the case. But, you know...

No, he's literally insane. No, he's very.... No, he's very, there's, it's been surprising how crazy it's been. No, it's very bad. I mean, I don't think we actually have yet, we can take kind of stock of how bad it truly is. Yeah. I mean, there's so much rot that has been introduced

to the system now. Like, I mean, the conversation, that we're having a conversation where like the president is actually in his lawyer who is Rudy Giuliani, who is completely off his fucking rocker as well, who is like a cartoon. I mean, he's like a cartoon villain. I mean, and I say that, like, people say that about people who are like, he's like a cartoon villain

and like, they don't mean literally like a cartoon, but like, I mean, literally like, the things he says and the way he acts are cartoonish in nature. And like, you've got, you know, we're having a public debate about whether the president can pardon himself if like, if he's, you know, if he's indicted. And it's like, if the president has to pardon himself

because like, you know, an arm of the government is like, you are involved in like Russian meddling or whatever we want to call, like the question is not about whether you can pardon himself. I mean, I feel like, and now like you've got people like Ted Cruz, like openly debating it, you know, on fucking Twitter, which is like, I mean, that we're having this conversation. Now it does feel like he's there a way to come back

from the brink of this insanity, you know, or are we now in like a perpetual state of like a circling the drain sort of, because that's how it feels. It feels like America is over in many ways. Like the America that has been the, now look, everybody will say, look, America's always been bad. Like America's always been very flawed. Yeah.

But it's never been this openly, I feel like it's been a long time since it's been this openly fucked up. Yeah. Like really, I mean George W. Bush was a, it was a nightmare president. Yeah. He's a war criminal and should be in jail. Yeah. Like really, I mean, George W. Bush was a, it was a nightmare president. Yeah. He's a war criminal and should be in jail. Yeah. But he at least was like kind of a politician. Yeah. I mean, I think he was just like, he, he knew how to put, he was seemingly at least more stayed. I mean, this is just like, Kierky jerky, like, because they really don't know, he doesn't know how to govern.

He doesn't know about process. He doesn't know anything. He doesn't know facts. Like, I feel like the president, like, doesn't know basic facts. Like, where things are on the world, or the relationship between like, Ukraine and Russia.

Like, I feel like he doesn't really understand any of, like, I think if you asked Trump, if you asked Trump, like, what is, explain the relationship? He would be at pains. By the way, a lot of people would, but I'm like, I would probably struggle with it a bit. Yeah, sure, but you're not the president.

But I'm not president. Nor do I want to be. Yeah. You know, it seems like the worst job. It's the worst job, but one of the, it also seems with the, you know, when you hear about like the infighting and the administration, how they're like eating each other alive and there's like total paranoia. Like every-

He's like Jeff Sessions socks. It's like you love Jeff Sessions. You pointed him. It's like every second, like there's more attrition and like people are just like, you think about, it's basically like just like the worst office politics in the world. You just think about working for a shitty boss. Yeah. And how terrible it is now people are like sucking up and running scared and like talking shit.

Remember scared, Richie? Yeah, I was scared, Richie. It's like, that was a thing that happened. Yeah, it's like a good old Sean Spicer. Yeah, we had a whole run where Melissa McCarthy was doing a Sean Spicer for a solution. There's a whole thing on SNL, the whole like they've abandoned the entire collection of sketches

about Sean Spicer. But like- With the podium. Yeah, that's right, the robot podium or whatever. Which is a good gag. But like, I actually, sorry, I'm gonna talk, I'm gonna say one more thing about politics, which is, you don't have to come in on if you don't want.

But I read something either today or yesterday about Scott Pruitt, was was trying to buy a used mattress from the White House. He like had people on his staff inquire about buying a used mattress from the White House. I don't know. I don't know. I didn't read this.

I'm sorry, can you just Google this, tell me if I'm insane. I saw this story that this, I mean, maybe it was a Borowitz. I want to have a Borowitz for a second. I'm going to haze you about Borowitz. But do you know Borowitz? You do, right? You get to hang out with him.

Yeah, hang out with him. Yeah, it's just Google Scott Pruitt, Mattress. White House mattress. Is this real? Okay. You have to, so Borowitz is, I'm not going to be honest with you. Yeah, go ahead. I have no. I think Andy Boroughitz is the fashion. Okay, that's fine. When I see a Boroughitz report, which I believe is with the name of his,

yes, I should explain to anybody who doesn't know who ever is listening. Boroughitz, the Boroughitz report is a satirical column. It's like the onion in the New Yorker. Right. But it's not funny. You could imagine. It's like, it's like, I think at some point also, they had to put the thing like satire from the New Yorker. They have like a label on the images. It's just so, it would be like fake news. Well, I, and I believe, here's why I bore what's annoys me.

Okay. The New Yorker doesn't do, does some humor. Oh, it has a lot of humor, but it doesn't do, it has like, jossum rumors, I think twice a day, not on New York. Yeah, but it doesn't do. It has like, show some rumors, I think twice a day now. But it doesn't do, yeah, but it doesn't, it doesn't have like a long history of doing straight, like, satire of the news in the sense that like they're just made up.

Yeah. Like the onion will make up stories. You know, it's like, the, click call had this amazing story, which I was talking about with somebody recently. Maybe you'll remember this. It was like Taylor Swift had the perfect response to a Twitter troll.

And the story was about how Taylor Swift has like, systematically dismantled this person's life. Like got his wife to divorce him. His kid. He's like lost. He clickles amazing. Yeah. Anyhow, but like,

it's like I often read it and like I really tears of joy. Like, yeah, it's one of the true great things that it's left on the internet. Anyhow, Borowitz, sorry, I use the reason why you should have to hear this, but I'm gonna just want to talk about this. No, please go ahead.

Boroughit's is like, I think what's annoying to me is I actually believe, and you don't have to say anything, but I believe that a large portion of the New Yorker's traffic on the internet is derived from Boroughit's stories which people think are real, and they click on, because a lot of people are not that savvy and don't know who Boroughwitz is,

and that just annoys me. I just, that's it. That's my only thing. I just feel like it's annoying to see. When I see them, I'm like, because at first I'm like, what the hell is this? Like if I'm reading in like, on Twitter, or something, I see like, this story.

I'm like, what? Anyhow, that's my Boroughwitz complaint. Maybe we'll edit that out, but. That's, it's fine. I mean, I have to have a response. I have no horse in the, I've never met him, you know. I'm sure he's a lovely guy. I just cannot stand his right.

I'm sure he's a lovely bit. I guess the story is real. It is real. Can you just give us a little excerpt of the mattress story? Is everybody loud in the headphones? A letter from essentially, who it's like assistant scheduler to one of the subcommittees was like, I did a lot of personal errands for him, including like scheduling private flights and super bowl tickets, stuff like that.

She also went to a Trump hotel to buy an old mattress for him. A Trump hotel. That's fucked up. That's suspicious. Why would he need an old mattress from a Trump hotel? Interesting. With a no. Is it one of those things where like, you know, one of those MTV like busted shows where they check for like fluids with like a special light?

That reminds me of my, do you remember the show Hunter? I don't think so. It's like I've talked about this in the podcast before. Hunter was a show about a cop played by, he was an ex-football player. It was like on in the 80s. Okay. And I remember this distinctly from my childhood.

So I remember very distinctly, which is there's an episode of Hunter. I don't know what the, I think they were after these, like this like Bonnie and Clyde couple that were like robbing with stores in the area or something, or maybe had done some murders. And they're like, they found their hotel room and Hunter goes in and the forensics people are there.

And this is like 80s cop drama, right? So you have to remember, like very, like Starsky and Hutch style. I don't know if you know Starsky and Hutch, but okay, which is kind of sevenies, but similar in a vein, you know, like Magnum PI kind of, you know, anyhow, he's like, what hunters, like what did you find?

Hunters like this, you know, hard nose, you know, season cop detective. They're like, what do, like what did you find? Hunters like this, you know, hard-nosed, you know, season cop detective. Like what did you find? He's like, we found every bodily fluid in the bed, including blood. And I'm like, wow. What are you telling me about what's happening in this bed?

Oh wow. That's the thing you never forget. When you say, I never forgot. And I think about it, I think this could be, I think about it a lot. Maybe I'll write that for the god of his life. I do these things where I'm like, like I have another one, which is, do you remember the human centipede?

The movie? No. Was I just talking about this recently? I just talked about this on another podcast. It's not just, I think about it all the time. I brought it up briefly, but we didn't get into it because it's the human centipede. The human centipede, do you remember the movie?

No, I don't. Do you know anything about it? No, no, I don't. Well, now that I've gone, now I have to tell you about it. The human centipede was a horror remember the movie? No, I don't. Do you know anything about it? No, no, I don't. Well, now that I've gone, now I have to tell you about it. Yes, please. The human centipede was a horror film, I think it was made. I want to say it's like 2000, oh, I don't know. I mean, I want to say 2003, 2005.

Oh, so fairly recently. Fairly recently. 2009. 2009, oh my God. So the human centipede, I'm going to give you the, I've never seen it because I refuse to watch it. Okay. It's a it's a torture porn film Oh my god. It's it's made by some Germans. I believe so go for it's not porn. It's but it's yes, but it's America

I mean it's in English it's in English. It's a Dutch film. It's in English. It's a horror film. Wow It was a very it was a big success The plot of the film is I really I do not want to describe. I love that this is where we are It's my fault the plot of the film is, I really, I do not want to describe it. I love that this is where we are. It's my fault. The plot of the film is a mad scientist, kidnap three people and puts them together. It puts them together.

Their mouths are sewn onto each other's assholes. No. Yes, okay. So you get the idea, right? Okay, it's a disgusting and insane idea. But the poster, which I remember vividly. Oh, no. No, you're gonna like, the poster hat

didn't have any details of what the movies about, obviously, because you can't show that. But it had a- I just showed a puckered mouse. The title. Open the screen. The title and screen. You know, human centipede and then, you know,

whatever, some titles or whatever. And then the tagline is, same tagline. It just says 100% medically accurate. Which is, I think the tagline is, it's not even tagline, it just says, 100% medically accurate, which is, I think the most amazing piece of marketing, because obviously there's zero that is medically accurate about the concept, but 100% medically accurate is like, what an amazing, okay, anyhow, this is so off topic.

Oh my God, I feel like the, what was the, the souls of my feet tingling? I'm so sorry. Oh, for some reason. I've like, I've been a very unkind to you, I feel like, today. I gave, I gave no me some bad news when she came in about a celebrity death and then, and then now I've followed up with talking about the human centipede.

What was I talking about before that though? You were talking about, oh, the body fluid, the mattress, the scalp fluid, mattress. Oh, it's got, yeah, I don't know whatever. It's just like, this thing you're talking about with this being like such social real. Right. It's insane. Yeah, like, it's, yeah, what, I don't know whatever. It's just like this thing you're talking about with this being like such a social real. Right. It's insane. Yeah, like it's, yeah, what else could happen? I don't know, let's move on to John Mayer.

And I think we have to wrap up. You've been here a long time. My favorite. My favorite. So have you done, you and John Mayer have interacted on the internet. We have interacted on the internet. Have you met John Mayer?

I have not met John Mayer. Is it, is it, he just responded to you talking about John Mayer, explaining the story to me. Okay, he's fascinated by John Mayer. Yes, me too. So the story is this. I have never been a fan,

a special fan of John Mayer's music. I think I only know the hits. This new song he's got out is pretty good. Yeah, it's a, it's a bop as the kids say. Very smooth, very smooth. He's, I mean, he's talented out is pretty good. Yeah, it's like it's a bop as the kids say. Very smooth. Yeah, I mean, he's talented. It's just not.

He's produced the only credible white guy music you can produce at this point. He's like a smooth, he's like a yacht rock. Yeah, that's how I feel. Yeah, it's like, it's like, John Mayer wants to be cool and credible and I think that this is a safe place for him to be. Like, he's not going to be Post Malone. And the, yeah, no, he's not going to be Post Malone.

I mean, he's, he's turned 40, you know, so I feel like pushing 40 in the friends. We're close in age. So I feel close to him in that sense, I guess. And, um, she's generally, I mean, just general, it's generational, Josh. So he has also both rock and we also rock. He is half Jewish. Oh, I didn't know that. I don't know if you knew that. So I don't know if the listener knows, but all Jewish people are fascinated with whoever is left. It's actually not interested.

Any Jews left is basically what they're interested in. Who's Jewish? Like Harrison Ford, I understand, is a quarter Jewish. He's a quarter Jewish. Which is very exciting to the Jews. It's a great, it's the pride of the Jews. Because Harrison Ford is such a cool, all-American like I know I know I love it when that bad boy Yeah, and then it's like oh he's a little Jewish

Yeah, and you're like see we're still here see yeah Yeah, walking Phoenix is he Jewish. I think they're like I think before they like converted to that weird cult Oh, they're in a cult well They grew up in I think in children of God. I think that was the parents, the Phoenix parents. Oh. They were, yeah, they were like begging on the street and like playing the tambourine and stuff. Oh, I worked out for them. I believe.

Yeah, I mean, it was, I think it was notoriously like, you know, fucked up family. Yeah. But I, yes, I think maybe the mom is Jewish. Okay. That's good enough for me. Yeah. Sure. So we'll take good enough for me. Yeah, sure. So we'll take it. So John Mayer, you've been fascinated by him as a man.

So that is Jewish, I believe. Okay. Mr. Mayor, Mayor Senior. He makes sense. Yeah. You know, he has the Towsled curls of a, you know, a Semitic. Yeah. He's a good looking guy.

He is a very good looking guy. John Mayer is very classically handsome. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Broad shoulders. He's a good looking guy. He is a very good guy. John Mayer is very classically handsome. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Broad shoulders. He's very tall. All of complexion. He's kind of a sleepy, dough-eyed sort of half awake.

Yeah. You know, kind of a... He seems to be saying, hey, no matter what. You know what I mean? You know what I'm talking about. Yes, I do. It's perpetual, hey. Yeah.

All right, any house? Yeah, like, hey. Hey. No, I do. It's perpetual. Hey. Yeah. All right. Any house. Yeah. Hey. Hey. Hey. No, I get what you mean. So, so yeah. So was never a big fan of the music, but the persona has intrigued me for going on a decade now. I want to say because you know, we had that period because he dated celebrities. He's like a serial celebrity date. He is a celebrity. Well, he is a celebrity who also always just dates famous people.

Well, you don't date a regular person. And for me, that peaked with his Jen Aniston period, which... Really, Katy Perry didn't think was the... I mean, I'm just not as interested in Katy Perry, but not that she's necessarily like less or more famous than Jen. Jennifer and I said Katy Perry have a similar public arc. They are interesting, say more.

Well, us, us weekly and other tablets. I'm going to have a us reader. Still, even. No, no, no, I've stopped. I actually have stopped reading and fuck us magazine and they can go to hell. But I did read us up until the recent acquisition. And also it's terrible. They put like Melani and the fucking Trump brothers in the covers.

I don't give a fuck about that shit. It was one thing when you put like a reality celebrity I've never heard of on the cover. And you're like, they had a baby and it's like, I guess I'll read it. But anyhow, but us, you know, we actually did a story about, we did a story, Kelly Conniboy wrote for us about secret hell, the phrase secret hell, which I noticed cropping up on us over the years, secret hell.

Like my drugs hell. Cursty, Cursty Alley, secret hell. Oh, okay, yes. But secret hells are specific, they're for women. They're a specific kind of place you get into. Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, I believe Angelina had a secret hell that she was enduring because of Brad Pitt. It's usually when a man, when a man is cheating on you or when you have a drug problem or when he has a drug problem. Yeah. It's not interesting, but but the arc of Katy Perry and Jen Anderson is a very specific

thing where it's a wounded woman, the woman who has been abused. They did a big story about Russell Brand when Katy Perry Russell Brand broke up. He's like a sex maniac and she's a good girl and he tried to make her watch Midget porn and all this like, that's actually in the story. And she was just scandalized by it and couldn't handle it and it was a she was in a secret hell They actually don't describe it as a secret hell, but I I think I believe based on what I know It was a secret hell a hell of her own. Yeah, well hell of his creation that she was forced into secretly In out of the view of the public. Yeah

But they're like this woman a woman who has been Unlucky and loved Taylor Swift has a similar narrative that she created for herself. Unlucky and loved. Unlucky and loved. Yeah. When was she fun love? Yeah. Have been abused by her. Poor Jen.

By the great of famous spouse that was supposed to be this wonderful man. Yeah. I mean, Katie also crafted this narrative in her documentary, which I've watched several times because it's fucking amazing. Really? Have you ever seen the Katy Perry documentary? No. It is fucking, what is it called? A piece of me or a piece of me or something. It's like, wow. I don't know what it's, that's not what it's fucking amazing. You've never seen the Katy Perry documentary. What is it called? A piece of me or piece of me or something.

It's like, I don't know what it's called. It's that sound it's called. Should I? It's called like part of me I think is what it's called. It's fucking amazing. Wow. I watched it the first time in Bermuda. Laura and I were in Bermuda and we were, it was like raining

and we were like, let's watch the Katy Perry documentary and I was like, it's so good. There's, she does like a whole breakdown in it. There were a whole Russell brand things on rambling in the documentary. Wow. Because it's part of her narrative. How did I miss this? I don't know.

You fucked up. You got to go back and see it. I think it's, I'm sure it's on Netflix. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But there's a narrative there. There's just the narrative of this woman.

And then they get redemption through a man where like Jen's redemption is through Justin Thoreau, which of course now is, she's returned to the narrative of... It's a narrative of a person. Unlocking love and she's been... Unlocking love, no kids is a big component of that. And they're always like, I still believe love is possible. And it's like this,

it's a really familiar narrative that us likes to spend. Anyhow, get back to John Mayer. Yes. So John, so I became interested in him over the years because of his sort of like, he was a celebrity in his own right, but because I wasn't interested in music, what I was interested in was his sort of like bad boy, like consistently dating celebrities, Jessica Simpson. Total bad boy. Was like an incredible moment for him,

because it was just so interesting. Jen Aniston Katy Perry. Jen Aniston Katy Perry, Jessica Simpson. There's more. I think I believe he dated, I might be wrong about this. I think he dated like Sherry Applebee in the early 2000s. That's some like, that's some, she's on entourage. No, it's on, unreal.

Oh, right, oh, right, right. You know, she's an actress. Yeah, I thought she was like, she was on an entourage. No, on real. Oh, right. Oh, right. Oh, right. You know, she's an actress. Yeah, I thought she's like, she's on an entourage. She was married to the guy from, um, um, and I'm from like John show the guy from John Vinnie's like a restaurant or an LA. Wait a second. Was she not in entourage? She, yeah, I hope it was on entourage. I feel like she was. Can we do that? Is that a manual shrieky maybe maybe I'm thinking right another US. Oh, they both Juases I believe see I'm on the case there they are they don't never say that There used to be a website called juhoo.com. I don't know if you remember it I remember you or not you but there was one called I think it's called you who which was like it cataloged all of the Jews I

Guy Ozeri wrote a book in the early 2000s. Madonna's manager. Yes. Called Jews Rock. Yeah. And it was about Jews Rock. Madonna, not Jewish, but converted to Kabbalah, which is... Yeah, Kabbalah enthusiasts.

I don't think we consider that to be part of the actual thread of Judaism, but Madonna does. Right. That's why I'm not a rabbi by my... Guy Richie, but Madonna does. Right. Guy Richie. Guy Richie, Jewish is fuck. What? Oh, not Guy Richie. Oh, is that her husband? Guy Richie?

I mean, her former husband. Her former husband. Super Jewish. Orthodox Jew. Actually, please, can somebody please check me on this? I'm fairly certain he is a heart. His family is a hardcore Orthodox Jewish family. Yeah.

I mean, how is that possible? So from the website, you are not Jew. Oh, okay. I said, how is that possible? So from the website, you are not Jew. Oh, okay. Says Guy Ritchie is not a Jew. No, that's wrong. I mean, it's the other way around. Wait, maybe it's the other way around.

She was trying to like convert him to Cabalars and then maybe that's, that's very possible. I thought there was some Jewish Guy Ritchie connection beyond Madonna. Oh, maybe he hates Jews. Maybe that's what I think. He is extremely not Jewish. No, is what you're thinking. No, you know, he knows Jewish. Dave gone. Gone from the patch mode. Yeah. What Jewish? You didn't know that. I can't believe you didn't know that. No. I love Dave gone. I don't want to be wrong about this. Why not

that you're so excited about it. I mean, I can see it. Definitely. He's a torture Jewish man. He's a torture Jewish man. When the daily star says that he is that guy Richie is actually really Jewish now. Oh, now, but this is post cabal. So apparently while married to Madonna, he like, resisted. Okay. But then like kind of just went along with it. And then it's his, it's with his new lady. Who is his new lady? Yeah, who's that? Shree, I hope it is.

Dave Gahan in Israel for. No, you're not. Here's a story. Here's a model. Okay. Yeah, of course. Dave Gahan in Israel for Suns Wedding. This is from Ynet News.

Top 10 hottest Jewish musicians he's in there. Wow. Oh, here's like him at his Sun's wedding in the Yamakon everything. Wow. Wait, this is a photo of it. It's a bad photo, but I think he's on the right there. That's incredible.

I've never been happier. I'm excited also. From the name, I could see him being like, maybe in Iraqi Jew or something. You know, like maybe like, I don't know why. He strikes me as like. He's born in Aztecs. Well, yes, I just mean the family.

I wonder if I'm right. I don't know, but you should look into it. Maybe there's an article for you out there. You know, maybe you got a little story. I actually, in my three months in the New Yorker, I've actually managed to write about the best road already. Have you?

Yeah, for the, you know, recommendation. It's like I recommended 101, the, you know, the 89, 1989 concert album. Yeah. So anyhow, you've been fascinated by John Mayer because it's really- Yeah, so I was fascinated basically. He was, because he was very, you know, this links up to my desire to know everything and my attraction to celebrities who sort of like kind of like a

slide back the curtain even just a little bit to show us their funny opinions and they're like they lift slip all sorts of like details and theories and being, you know, because he was unguarded and those like he had two interviews. I believe this was like 2008, maybe or 2009, where one to Rolling Stone went to playboy where he just like let loose. Right. He said that thing about like Jessica Simpson being sexual napalm for him and how he couldn't let her go because he was just so Jessica Simpson being sexual napalm for him and how he couldn't let her go because he was just so, he was sexual napalm. Yeah.

And it's like he didn't have a handler. Yeah. He just, yeah, he just didn't care. And then he went into sort of hiding, not hiding, but he was like a bad guy. He was just like, yeah, I said too much. Yeah. And now he's back and he's like, or now he's been back for a while, obviously. And now he has this whole like other part

where it's just like that he's like a hype beast. He's like the street, the street wear guy. He loves watches. I know that because he loves watches. He does stuff with Hauden qui, which is this watch site. Okay. And I've seen him like, like years ago, they did interviews with him

because he's like a big watch collector. But he was also like, wasn't he on the Chappelle show? Well, he does well, he I don't know about the show, but he's doing shows which a pal know I think he did some sketches or was Participated in something on Chappelle show. He's a funny guy. He's a funny dude. He is a funny guy He's self-aware to an extent. Yeah, I would imagine yeah Probably not the whole way which but who is well Well, his new video, his new song is like, as I mentioned, you know, it's pretty, I mean, I hate to say it because I don't think his music is good.

But the new song is pretty catchy and pretty good. Yeah. The video is very funny. Yeah, he's funny. It's time for riff. I will say, I don't know if you know any, if you're a father, John Misty fan at all, but. Not really.

Well, he, Josh Tillman, who I don't think is Jewish, but his name is Josh. He's not. He's actually from an evangelist family. Okay. That makes sense. There's a, I think there's a facial hair intersection there with evangelical Christians and highly religious Jews. But he has a song called Mr. Tillman, but the original, like there was a lyrics video for it,

but in the middle of the video, which I was watching, listening to it, he starts doing the thing that John Mayer does in his video, which is like dancing over like... Like a green screen. Green screen, which is weird, it's their weirdly time. So I'm not gonna say that John Mayer ripped him off, but I was gonna tweet at John Mayer about it,

but then I decided not to. And so John, okay, so the thing is, I'm gonna know. He's definitely like a, he's definitely like a cultural like, Vulture. Yes, so he definitely is. And so the thing is basically my thing with Mayer is that I started hounding him on Twitter to follow me back. Right.

Like I begged and begged and begged and I made jokes. And I was like, you know, I was just like shamelessly like begging for that follow back. And it took like a really long time. It took like a year or more than eight years. Did you have like, you just went over and you thought about it? Yeah, everyone's in a while, I'd pick it up

because it was a good bit. How many followers do you have on Twitter? I think I have like about like, goes a little over 10,000. Are you verified? No, I'm not. You're not. I'd never tried to be.

No, you're, but it that's just the time when you were at the New York Times. Yeah. So it helps like if he looks at you, right? If he's just a bit harassing him, he'll be like, oh, well, this is not a nobody. It's like not a, so this person's not a crazy. Yeah, no, he, and we have some mutual friends. We had some mutuals. Okay.

That's something. I think he knew and then finally he like caved. And he followed you. Yeah, he followed back, he broke like a twig. Yeah. It was exciting. I remember when it happened. It was really exciting.

I think you retweeted it or you Instagramed it or something. I mean, I did everything. You did it all. I did. I did it all. And now are you in communication with John Mayne? So no, so what's so tragic is that this was maybe like I want to say November. Oh. Okay. Or like something like that. Right. And then or December. I don't know. And then

with the new year, he's been off Twitter. He hasn't. He tweeted a few promotional things. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm sure he's people, his people, he's tweeted a few promotional things, you know, like, I'm talking with the dead, his people. His people, yeah, or like, you know, doing some stuff. You have to smart move. I'm doing what Chappelle thing, but he's not on Twitter anymore. That's the move. If I was a celebrity, and I just had this conversation

with a lot of people because I was arguing with Elon Musk on Twitter. Oh, yes. Oh, we need to talk about Elon. Okay. We could do a couple of minutes on Elon. Okay. You know, I was like, listen, you could not fucking pay me to use Twitter if I was a billionaire. Right. I would never look at it. I wouldn't think about it. There would be no reason for me to

access Twitter.com. But don't they also need gratification? No, they listen, he can be gratified in many other ways. I, you do not, if you are Elon, I'm going to tell you right now, if you are Elon Musk, Twitter is of no use to you. It can only bring you harm and as it has done, it can only bring you harm. Yeah. Stay the fuck off Twitter.

And I'm not trying to edit him or say he shouldn't speak his mind. Yeah. But I'm saying, well, I'm saying if I were Elon Musk or anybody who's rich and famous, like Tom Cruise doesn't fuck with Twitter. He has a Twitter account. He's not tweeting.

Tom Cruise is not on Twitter like this video's hilarious or like whatever, like tweeting about the resistance or whatever because he probably voted for Trump. He hasn't vote. Yeah, I'm sure he doesn't vote. What are earthly votes when you're when you're imbued with the power of Z knew. By the way, I love Tom Cruise. He's my favorite celebrity. And having, uh, having met and talked to Tom Cruise, which I talk about whenever possible backstage at the at late night with Jimmy Fallon, we spent like 20 minutes, 20 solvents, me, Laura, and at the time, my assistant Michael talking to Tom Cruise

about books. And it was, he was fucking so cool and awesome. Was he, he had that like eye contact, amazing, like eye contact thing? Do you know that, do you know, have you, you read the great Gatsby, I assume? Yes. There's a, there's an excerpt in the great Gatsby when it talks about, when Gatsby speaks to you,

the way it makes you feel, that you are the center of attention that there is no one else in the room. Yeah. That is how it feels to talk to Tom Cruise. Yeah. And I, and I think it is genuine. I don't think it is a put on. I think that Tom Cruise genuinely is interested

in you when you're talking to him. And that is what's so compelling. Anyhow, he's a magical person. But that's why I've thought a lot about becoming a Scientologist because I feel like there's something. I mean, I obviously quackery, but maybe there's a little something there. And if I could get into another room of Tom Cruise, it'd be all be worth it. Anyhow, but obviously quackery, but maybe there's a little something there. And if I could get into another room of tone,

I'm curious if you'll be working with it. Exactly. Anyhow, but yeah, Eli, it's like, it's like, don't use Twitter. Like John Mayer's smart. He's like, what the fuck am I gonna do? I was like, I can smoke weed and play guitar all day every day. What would be the point of being on Twitter?

Well, he's funny. So I feel like that. But he could make a TV show. He could have a web series. I guess so. He could be, he's funny. So I feel like that. But he can make a TV show. He can have a web series. I guess so. He could be, he could like, yeah, I guess you could do like real things, I guess. Yeah, like where funny ish maybe,

I mean, you're definitely funny. I'm, you know, and you know, my part of our jobs are to be on Twitter. Yeah. But I also enjoy the, sometimes enjoy the performance of it. Yeah, love the laughs. Sure. Love on a T performance of it. Yeah, love the laughs. Sure. Love on a Teeke goes viral.

Yeah. But like, I get it for us. Right. I don't get it for John Mayer. Yeah. It's like, don't go down there. Right. Don't go in the basement.

Well, so he's, well, now he's very big on Instagram. He does a lot of stories. Sure. He doesn't follow back on Instagram, which is like, John, if you're listening, follow back on Instagram. Come on. He is listening, actually. John Mayer is a big fan of this podcast. Come on, John.

John, I know you're out there. Do better. You want to be a good man? Follow Naomi on Instagram. It will be worth your while. You'll enjoy it. You see everything. It'll happen.

Parties, dinner parties. It'll happen. Her beautiful, dinner parties. It'll happen. Her beautiful child, her very handsome husband. Very handsome, extremely handsome. It's very tall. How tall is he? Six four. Oh, he's my height. Yeah. That's cool. I'm tall. Yeah. What else do I see on your Instagram? Sometimes you're like, well, we didn't talk about it at all. I have to wrap up unfortunately. I could talk, I feel like we could actually talk for much longer. Yes. The face magazine, which you've, I think you've Instagramed some old faces.

Yes, they do have some old issues. I am, the face magazine is my, it's my ultimate magazine. It is the magazine that made me love magazine. Yeah, I love, I loved it too. And it is actually like, the outline is like my weak pathetic attempt to try to recreate some of the magic of the face. No, but you know, I'm not the face. Well, I mean, nothing will be the face out there because it's also a different time.

We had a logo treatment, which was identical to the face. Like, I had the face font, but it was the outline. We had like hundreds of different logo treatments before we came up with the the one that we picked, which I described as a deceptively banal. I like the logo. No, I'm not fishing, but the point is, yeah, the face, and you've talked about it, and you're one of the few people, I know that Nick Denton is a big fan of the face. The one thing that I have in common with Nick Denton is that besides being a media person is, we're both British. No, that he likes the face.

He's half Jewish. That's his, he's half Jewish. He is. Well, he's in media, so it's, they wouldn't let him, they wouldn't let him have gocker if, well, he took it away from him. Yeah. Who owns it? Who owns it?

Anyhow, so yes, and now you and John Mayer are friends. Well, I mean, if you ever are a transgender, I'll have a way to reach out. Yeah, you can DM him. But he's not on it. I don't think. Don't you want to write about him for the New Yorker? I feel like this is the time.

Why don't you, I don't want to give you a free idea, but. I mean, why wouldn't I want to give you a free idea? I mean, because now I'm thinking, why don't we write about John Mayer, but you should talk to him about his new song and his whole new vibe, which is like, oh, the other thing is that he in the video, this is really annoying to me,

and then, and then it's a little bit the last thing, probably, close to the last thing I say. Okay. He's wearing these Nike's, I bought these Nike's that are super fucking weird, like dad Nike Nike's that I've never ever seen anybody else and I get a lot of compliments on them. I'm not wearing them today. Are you seeing your head just?

I'm not. Okay. But I know enough to be dangerous. Yeah. And I bought these Nike's and I actually can't think of the name of them right now. I think they're like a Pegasus, but they're like a future Pegasus.

Mm-hmm. He's wearing the same fucking, these fucking shoes in the video. He's the only other person I've seen in the shoes. Yeah, they must be highly, they are. These are not them, but they're purple and green and orange. Yeah, and he's wearing that purple outfit. They're beautiful. Um, anyhow, I know me, this has been, there's so much more to say.

It's so much more to say. How do you back? This is the way. I want to have you back, um, but I just want to say to the listener, read, read no miswriting. It's all over the New Yorker.com. You, you publish pretty often. Once a week.

Once a week? Seems like a lot more. Like I see your stories more, but maybe it's because I follow you everywhere. Yeah. It, it, it should be about once a week. Sometimes, you know, one week doesn't have any and then two come out.

And they love you. The New Yorker loves you. I hope so. I think it does. I see the New Yorker account, I feel like I see them tweeting your stories. Maybe you're retweeting the New Yorker account to read your stories.

That's why I see them. Oh, maybe. I know. I feel like there's a lot of love for the stories that you're doing. Because they are really clever and interesting. And it's like a little bit of a different perspective on pop culture, a little bit more thoughtful.

I mean, we try to do some of that here. It's just like, they're funny and they're smart and they're little slices of the weirdness of what is happening in pop culture right now, which I love. Thank you. No, that's really nice. So if you're listening, read her stuff. And then you'll have to come back.

I would love to. And thank you so much. Thank you, Josh. Thank you for having me. and the licks are just not that good.