Tomorrow - 127: Everything's a Meme With Taylor Lorenz

Episode Date: August 10, 2018

Did this podcast get Apple to change it's Alex Jones/InfoWars podcast policy? That's what Josh and Ryan are choosing to believe. Now they're on to their next target: The App Store. Also, Josh finally saw Infinity War, Ryan has some misgivings about the Magic Leap, and they both want @jack to cut it out. Then special guest and Taylor Lorenz, a staff writer at The Atlantic, swings into action to help us explain just why Twitter is so bad and what our alternative platforms are up to. Danananana... Batwoman! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow. I'm your host Josh Witts Polsky. Today on the podcast we discuss secret rubikon's Batwoman and the room where it happens. I don't want to lose one minute. Let's get right into it. All right, we're back. Tapeting. We're here, Ryan. Here we are. We're in the room together. The room where it happens as they say in Hamilton. The musical. I'm not a Hamilton. You know what, I've never seen it.

I've heard the album. It's good ones. Very inspirational. It's good ones. It's good. Take the note, everybody. I'll be honest with you. Wow.

You're like a Hamilton hater. I'm a Hamilton. It's finer. But in this world, you're not allowed to, that's not an opinion you're like a Hamilton hater. I'm a Hamilton, it's finer, but in this world, you're not allowed to, that's not an opinion, you're allowed to have. The ham lash. It's like saying breaking bad. It was okay. No, I mean, I'm trying to think about,

I'm trying to think if I'd watch breaking bad now. No. Breaking bad's like, I feel like I don't need to revisit it. Yeah. Like I'll say that. I did rewatch Mad Men. It was a moment, oh, Mad Men is infinitely rewatched. Very it. Yeah. Like I'll say that. I did rewatch Mad Men. It was a moment. Oh, Mad Men is like infinitely rewatched.

Very good. Yeah. Very good. That captures a moment in time. Yeah. There's so many things in a rewatching Mad Men that I didn't notice. Mm-hmm. I kept dreading the end of Sal's storyline.

Like one of the things I was like, I remember like when they killed, then I killed him off, but like they cut it, the character. I was like, I felt like they could have done so much more here. He never came back to it either. He never came back to it. I felt like, oh, the they could have done so much more here. He never came back to it either. He never came back to it. I felt like, oh, the last season, we're gonna like, no, no, no, no. He's gonna be like either destitute.

Maybe they do come back to it actually. Don't they come, don't they have like a scene where he's like in the park or something, like meeting guys? Am I imagining things? I think you are. I think you were. I'm like, wait, I met Sal in the park. I'll say this about that. I'll say it. Sal, mad are. I'm like, wait, I'm at Sal in the park.

I'll say this about my men. Hold on, hold on. Sal, mad men. The first time I watched it, not important information. The first time I watched men, I was young enough to know that it was good, but not why and not to like analyze it too much.

And the like third time I watched men, I was like, oh, now I get it. Like now I have the references and I'm able to parse dialogue and like follow emotional arcs of characters. At 19 I wasn't really taking any of it in. Now it's a show that grew with me, which I like. I don't do things.

I'm a author visiting. I fantasized about this. I thought there was some thing where they like, you know, they're like, he's like, destitute. Maybe I was like, this would be a crazy twist. It's like, wow, South life was ruined. They like told us in his last scene, he's like, I'm gonna go work over here and they was gone. And it was like, I guess we're not coming back to this.

Uh, wait, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Yes, in South's last scene, he's calling his wife from a phone booth in a Tajri corner of Central Park looking ready to get screwed in quite another way. This is from a Huffington Post right up. Yeah, but that I thought you meant like later revisiting. No, no, but I did have Don strolling through the park and he's like, so it's like in the middle of the file.

It's like, you just see like, he's ass. No, I know that ass anyway. Seriously. Yeah, that storyline was crazy. What's really interesting about it is like, I misremembered Don being like, I'd ass holding him about it. And actually, it's like, but initially he's not.

Initially, Don's just like, well, Don does a lot of a lot of parents see, which is like, okay, we're never going to discuss this. Yeah, he's like, all right, you know, we'll just go back to pretend that we're going back to whatever. And I'm not going to address it. And then he only, he only is actually mad about it because it's like a business problem for him. Yeah, which is like really an interesting like character. Yeah, it's an interesting take on homophobia

that I don't know that I'm buying. But yeah, it's like the guy for the 60s like fine with the gay sex unless it messes up the business Well, then we got a problem. Well, that's but that is like it dawn's actually a pretty good guy But I do think there's a thing with Dom where he's like it's kind of like Live and let live his thing is sort of like oh well. Yeah, his whole thing is like his car My shit. I'll stay out of your shit his character is like we all have deep dark secrets This is all fegrary. And we, that is civil society. And I, that's how we function.

And like, I'm a hobo. It's very 60s. A hobo with a beat. Anyhow, I want to be for I forget. I realized I finally watched Infinity War and we did not talk about it. And I really, I really, I really, really want to talk about it. And now I feel like everybody's seen it.

Like I saw like the day after I watched it, was like Leslie Jones live tweets infinity war. And I'm like, okay, like I guess Leslie Jones and I both waited for both these days. Leslie Jones just recently watched all of drag race on Twitter. And that's like hundreds of hours of television. And where is she finding the time? I don't know.

She's very busy. I don't know. Why does she have more time than I do to watch TV? Well, not even a boy. She's a celebrity. She has people. All right. The more people you get, the more time you have for drag. A lot of first class time. That's why. Yeah. Okay. Anyhow. So, so let's just be,

I want to talk about Infinity War. So save five minutes. Or 10 minutes for the film. So do it now. Let's just do it now. Okay, fine. Let's tell you when you have to shut up. So I got to say, I thought any word was actually a pretty good movie. Yeah. Like, maybe the first of, like that, the Thor movie that Ragnarok, which I think actually has a lot of holes,

but like it's pretty entertaining. And it's time someone takes some license or like, does anything. Ragnarok is pretty beautiful. Like, there's some shots. I think we talked about this. There's like, actually, like, wow. But like, I have, I think I've now,

I'm now like, I'm now like on board with the Avengers. Like, I feel like, I feel like what I've now, I'm now like, I'm now like on board with the Avengers. I feel like what they've been doing is they've created a very long, very expensive prestige television series. Yeah, absolutely. Like, it's television show. No, it is. Wins giving me a look and I don't know why,

but it is 100%. They're like, they're literally doing it's like a six feet under for superheroes. I think what they're doing to me strikes me a little bit more. And I know I bring everything back to this, but like the housewives model where they all go to their different franchises. And then every once in a while, we get a watch and happens live with like crossover events. Yeah.

And you're like, there is a difference. Like, like Captain America is a different set of films than like say the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. Like they have different tone and very different. And yeah, oh Yeah, James gun boy they have a real different tone now, but they also are completely plug and play compatible with each other. So you can throw three of them together, two of them together, different combinations. Well, I did a tweet, which of course is always a mistake, but I did a tweet while watching. I'm trying to find it right now. I was pretty proud of it and I feel like it actually very accurate.

It only works for a certain segment of the audience because you have to be a little bit older. No, I love when we recap tweets. Yeah, nothing's nothing better than me talking about a tweet that I did. But it was basically like the gist of my tweet was, and this is the tweet. And it's finally worse puffed at it, bringing up, staying at the VMAs for two and a half hours.

I don't know if anybody remembers this, but I don't remember what year it was, but it was, it was, you know, no trace, but I actually had died. Puff daddy or did he, Sean Puffy comes, did a tribute to him to the tune of every breath you take, performed by the police. And is it the police song or a sting song? I think it's a police song. And during the performance, like, when the chorus comes in, fucking sting comes out. And this was not a common thing at the time. It was not done that often where you'd have these, like, this was the age of rap rock.

Like this was also the age of like a sample, like every Will Smith song is quote unquote sampled, but it's literally just the instrumental of rap rock. Like this was like, this was also the age of like a sample, like every Will Smith song is, is, it's quote unquote sampled, but it's literally just the instrumental from another song and like, that was true. That was true a lot of like, it was the same thing with this.

Yeah, and like, and pop, and pop, pop, and a sample. So much, it was like, a mace, all the songs were like, yeah. But anyhow, and it was like, I was like, oh my god, yeah, but that was fucking staying for real out. Yeah.

And he sang the fucking hook and any house. So this was like, this was like, and that was like music crossover was like, these, you got one fucking stay for real out. Yeah, and he's saying the fucking hook and any how so this is like this music was like music crossover was like, yeah, you got your chocolate. It was like, it was like, what? I was a child and I never be like, shock and awe. What if the guy from Slayer was did a solo on a rap song and people like, like their fucking brains when flying out of their skull? Now we're like, we live so deeply in mashup culture that I know. Now, like Stephen X and Missy Elliott, please,

I have four versions of that, which is why everybody's always like, did you catch the, which is why we're like, ready player one is like, did you catch those Easter eggs? And it's like, just shut up. Just fine. Like, yeah, you chucky and E.T. or hump. And we're like, I get what do you have anything to say? Or is it just chucky and E.T. hump? But, but, but you know, this was like, this was like, oh my God, like the raccoon and that was like right after that VMA, VMA MTV put out that record of mashups that was like the Lincoln Park. Like they were really jumping to two feet deep in the way.

But it's like, it's like also where I think is interesting is like, oh, nobody knows anybody. Yeah. Go like, I'm Doctor Strange. It's like somebody would have been like, oh, nobody knows anybody. Go like, I'm Dr. Strange. It's like, somebody would have been like, oh, there'd have been an email about that guy or something like Dr. Strange did some stuff. So like, have you heard of this Dr. Strange guy

or like, you know, I don't know. No, he's a notable figure. That's, here's my also. The cell phones. Two notes, one, the contractual obligations where like Jessica Jones doesn't have the powers to be a AAA superhero, but Scarlett Johansson's black widow. Excuse me.

Jessica Jones can like black widow is the most important character in the Avengers universe. That also all the men or at least one from every franchise has the same personality. And I'm getting a little sick of like Robert Downey Jr. Clodens who are like, I've got the sessiest remark. And they're like sessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessessess like, sess sess sess sess sess sess sess cut to the next scene. Sess sess sess sess sess cut to the next scene. There's a lot of one. That's a straight guy's whipping their dicks out on each other. There's a lot of one liners.

I thought there were some actually very funny moments in the movie, like legitimately good. These are minor creatures. I gotta say, I was kind of like, you know, Chris Hemsworth is actually a good actor. No, he's a great actor. He's great. Like I don't want to give him the credit because he's so handsome.

Top two. Top two. He's so muscular and handsome. I want to be like, you can't have it all. Yeah, no, he's got, he might be a small person. You know, no, but. No, I'm pretty sure he's got something wrong with him. No.

He's the male Marilyn Monroe. He's very funny in the movie. You know, the raccoon, the raccocoon is my favorite character of the Avengers universe. Is everybody knows I've told people many times. I mean, I thought this was very enjoyable film. And I also think that the, all the people dying is complete nonsense because they're definitely is going, they're 100% as a new black Panther movie going to exist because it made so much money.

There is definitely like two new Spider-Man movies coming. But like, like, the Wikipedia page of comic book characters in actual comic books that are state dead coming. But like a Wikipedia page of comic book characters in actual comic books that are stayed dead is shorter than like the Wikipedia page. I hear what I think. I hear my theory and then we're gonna be like, so you're hearing my theory? It's not like the stakes are that different.

You're hearing my theory. Okay. Somehow I don't know when we happens off camera. Somehow, somehow we don't know how. Dr. Strange and someone else, I don't know who it is, maybe Tony Stark, maybe somebody else, tamper with the, what is the final stone that Thanos gets? Time. The time stone. No. Yeah, I think it's time, right? Is it the final stone? He uses all of them to kill people, but he used the time stone was the last stone he needed. And that was the one of them trying to do the actual killing, right?

No, all of them together. You know, all of them, isn't just, isn't just that he controls all of the fabric of reality, so he can just do because he is all of them. Yeah. The time stone is the final one, you're right. Here's my beliefs. No, I know. Here's my belief.

The, the, whatever happened somehow, somehow they tampered with the time stone. And what Thanos thinks he's doing, what appears to be happening is some kind of like hallucinatory experience that Thanos is having or like he's in like they split, like they split realities, and like there's a reality where that happened

and then there's a reality where it didn't happen somehow. And like he's in the one where it happened but there's another reality where it didn't happen somehow. And like he's in the one where it happened, but there's another one where it didn't, or it's like a left over, the room where it happened. That's right, the room where it happens, or it's like a left over situation where there's like a split between those two. But like it has something to do with like,

because like I did read a couple of things, but like they, something pointed out that like, oh, Dr. Strange does all the things, like he's like, I'm not gonna do this, I won't do that, don't expect me to, and then he's like, he does every one of them. And it's like, you could be like, oh wow, he broke his own rules to save Tony Stark,

but it's like, I don't think so. Like, he's definitely smarter than that. Then like, oh Tony, I love you. Let me give the time stone over to save your life. Like, if it were all of humanity or Tony Stark, definitely no fucking question. It's like, Tony, you had a good life. I push Elon Musk into a hole to save a bird.

Yeah, Tony, you had a really good life. I push Elon Musk into a hole to save a bird. Yeah Tony you had a really good life like I don't think your life is worth Humane's like no they make this whole point is like you know It's like one for all at all for one. It's like I don't think so when it comes to like the entirety of all All-light all-light not just on the planet. Yeah, right. Not just on the planet But in the entire universe. Yeah, so I just like oh some Americans are getting it's like a mebath Yeah, so I was like oh like the people in Americans are getting to that. It's like a Meeba. Yeah. So I was like, oh, like the people in Brazil are getting zapped.

It's like galactic. Yeah, it's like civilization. The fucking, you know, cloud aliens or whatever. Okay, anyhow, that's my, that's, and so in Fentywurst, check it out. Okay, I personally am getting prepared to be disappointed by the Batwoman series coming to CW. Everybody's talking about, everybody's really mad

about this Ruby Rose. Now here's the thing, all of the CW shows are not, listen, for who they're for, they're not for me, but it's disappointing because the superheroes are supposed to be for me. And what does that mean? Like I love those, I would love a really good TV series of any, like even Jessica Jones is probably the thing

that comes the closest, especially DC properties, I would love like a really good Batwoman series and I know what's not going to be. Just so bad. So first off, I, do you watch Gotham? My friend Robin Lord Taylor plays the penguin. Oh, you, we talked about this. I watched it for the first couple of seasons. I hear he's very good in it.

He is actually incredible. Stern, you should, everyone's tired about, everyone should hire him. Actually, Howard Stern and Robin were gushing one day about how good the guy who plays the penguin is. Yeah, he's real fucking good. He should get those clips and put them on his, he should just be hired to do everything. He should get those clips, put them on his webpage or whatever. Sure he has.

Because they were really, if I recall, they were really into it. No, he should be hired to do it. Maybe it was the guy who plays the Joker. No, I think it was the penguin. No. Anyhow. It was the guy who plays the Joker. No, I think it was Penguin. No. Anyhow. It was Penguin. Uh, there is, here's what I saw.

Okay. It's just like everything on the internet. Yeah. It's like, I saw this, you know, Google News Alert or something because they, Google knows I'm really into comic books and comic book related entertainment apparently. And they're like Ruby Rose Cass is Catwoman and new CW Catwoman series. Batwoman. Batwoman. No.W Catwoman series. Batwoman. Batwoman.

No, she's Batwoman. Batwoman. Yeah. Whatever. There, I remember because I didn't read them. Then I immediately flipped to like Twitter. She was going on and people were very mad. People were mad.

Here's a lot. People don't like Ruby Rose. Okay. So here's what I saw. I saw a very. You got a lesbian as a triple A hero hero like to play a lesbian triple a hero. That's pretty good. So the I saw a very specific backlash. The backlash was seriously was this the, oh, this is like the only lesbian that anybody knows in Hollywood. And also she's a bad actress. Sure, she's a bad actor, but she looks the fuck you. Those two things, I agree. Those two things together, though, they was like, oh, it was like

very unoriginal. Like, you picked, you didn't pick the right lesbian actress. And also, I don't like this actress. Yeah. I don't know what Ruby Rose is. I don't know. My whole thing with that is, like, well, let's see it. What is Ruby Rose in that I would have seen her in? Orange is a new black. I stopped watching that after this half, I threw the second. She plays like stupid eye candy in that. She in the second season. No. Okay.

That night, she've never seen her in that show. What else would I have seen? I know of her. She was like a Australian model. She's in that new movie, The Meg. She seems like something who'd be in the suicide squad, but is not. Yeah.

In the suicide squad movie. She's like kind of a list. I'm just like, let's wait and see, because Melissa Benoist really was incredible as Supergirl. And I don't think're gonna I don't know they've the cast of the show has been pretty good Uh Supergirl the best of all of them. I can't handle uh, I cannot handle like broadcast TV. No, I know me neither broadcast I can't watch like heroes They bit network TV shows, but the hero shows are like the super your show crap They're like they they just always,

there's some like, corner. God, there comes the closest because it's camping over the top and it's like a weird procedure and it's not necessarily superheroes. It's just sort of set in that universe. I've heard good things about legends. What is that?

So you have content. The magic leap one creator edition is shipping. Yeah, yeah. You know what? I don't have an opinion on this. I don't know who this is for. Here's the only thing you need to know. Who's being the only thing you need to know. I'm gonna tell you it now. Listen to it. Believe it. Don't believe it. Whatever your choice. No one wants to wear shit on

their face. No. I'm sorry. I like my PSVR and I know it's not for everyone. And that is the closest we've come to. Very few people want to wear shit on their face. A $200 toy if you can make it look like a pair of glasses. You have a shot, but like 3D glasses for TVs look like a pair of glasses and no one wants to put this fucking glasses on. I don't want to put them on the movie theater. People first of people who don't wear glasses,

a lot of them hate the idea of wearing glasses. That's the first thing. I don't even like wearing something. People who wear glasses need to wear them, therefore it makes wearing other glasses harder. Yeah. And also none of these things. And you look stupid.

None of these things look cool or good. I'm sorry, VR is dope, I love it. But it does not look cool or good to do. No. And most people, silly. You know, like just on just on a small, like it will mess up your hair. Also it makes you a lot of people do this. Yeah, like it like just on just on a small like it will mess up your hair Also, it makes you know, I just yeah, and if my real world life has any chance of okay. I'm into the idea of, I'm into the idea of like a really advanced Pokemon go.

Sounds fun. I'm going, I'm leaving. Sounds fun, right? Maybe. Yeah, but you have to wear those fucking things on your face. No. Yes, no thank you. No, no, you have to put them on.

I don't want to. And wear them. No. Well, that's the trade off. I'm not doing anything. How much would you, what would you wear for a really good Pokemon go? Sunglasses. I wouldn't wear shit. Sunglasses.

Fuck, we're like Pokemon. That I got to pick the style and size. Fuck Pokemon. All right, what else is in the news? All right. Well, I don't want to say we did this. We got info wars banned from podcasts. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm taking responsibility for it say we did this. What? We got info wars banned from podcasts. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm taking responsibility for it.

We did that. I just want to say, I'm not, look, I don't know the sequence of events, but here's what I do know happened. We did that. We were talking last week, we were talking about info wars and how they, you know, there was a... They were in the podcast that way. And we're like, Hey, Apple podcast, are they hosting the info wars podcast?

And we went through, and we talked about it. And we're like, hey, Apple podcast, are they hosting the Infowars podcast? And we went through, and we talked about it, and we're like, this is weird and shitty. And then you know, a couple of days later, a couple of days. Tim Cook's like, I'm not saying Tim Cook's a die hard listener, but Tim Cook's stand is a hula fan. That's what we've learned. Let's just say that, you say, I'm sorry, you're saying he's a fan of Ryan Hula-Han.

Yeah, he's a hula fan. I don't have a fan name idea for myself. That's a good one. Fan Polskies. That's like, I came up with the Timothy Ola fan to fan club, the Ola fans. You know, a fan? Are you in the Ola fans? Are you a flash? The Ola fans.

I came in Ola fan watching Deadwood. I know. I'm a huge. I'm a, I'm a Tim right? That's his show justified. I tried to watch justified. I know it's very good. I know it'm a huge I'm a just a five right? That's a show justified. I tried to watch justified. I know it's very good. I know it's very good. That just sounds like again, I'm Stan Polsky. That's not good. What would be my fan club? It'll come to me. It'll come to me. But in any event,

all right. Okay. Got Tim. I think I think we motivated some folks that had maybe had not thought about it. Steve Wilson, the guy who basically controls all podcasts at Apple. Maybe he, maybe he listened in to Paul Schemers. And he was like, no, that's not good. Let's, I mean, the important thing is that Alex, I mean, the important thing, of course, is that it was the greatest threat to free speech of all time. I will say, I am this fucking close to like,

actually leaving Twitter. Me too, I think about it every time I speak. Like every single time when I, when I, the last 24 hours of Jack Dorsey's behavior, 48 hours or whatever, we found out that Twitter is gab. It's like listen, first off shut the fuck up. Like if you're not going to ban them, like actually we don't need to hear your reasons for not banning them.

You be bad. There are a bullshit. As a CEO, here's some CEO to CEO advice and I'm a bad CEO, but here's some advice. Just don't fucking say anything right now because you don't know where the, how the dust is going to settle on this situation. Just shut up. But then second, you're like on fucking Hannity. You went on. All right. I'm sorry. I'm actually starting to think like, no, he is. And we're going to talk to, we're going to talk to Taylor Lorenz here in a moment. And she may have some insight on this as well. But like, I'm starting to think that Jack

Dorsey might actually be a fucking right wing. Not, not look at him. Look at him. He was like, he's got that 14 words. I'll be honest with you. He's on the back of his neck. His hair has definitely gone in the direction of a kind of Richard Spencer situation, right? No, he's Twitter is all right. But he actually kind of looks a little bit like ever in the American history acts. So let's put that together.

Can we get aside by side of those guys somewhere? I like to see that. Actually, I'm going to, I'm not going to tweet it, but that's a free tweet for you if you want it. Thanks. Just a side by side of Jack George, he was his like alt-right haircut and a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, it. No, I mean, I know, but given literally any alternative where I could just like get my friends on there, I would take it like a slack room, like a public slack room we could all join. I can't buy. Jack Dorsey's like, here's why we think it's important to hope, here's why we think it's important to sell

the protocols of the elders of Zion in our bookstore. It's like, you know what? And then they tweeted that they don't have the ability to like, they're like, we don't have the ability to like, they're like, we don't have the scalable, like, infrastructure to orbit what's hate speech or truth. It's like, well, then you don't get to run the website. I like, I like, I like, I like, I like,

I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, the infrastructure to make sure it's not poison. No, I like the thing, I like the thing where they were like, um, well, he did it in the past before we changed our policy. And so we can't retroactively, it's like, yeah, she can.

It's like, you own it. This isn't the law. You're not going to the Supreme Court. You't retroactively. Yes, you can. It's like you own it. This isn't the law. You're not going to Supreme Court fucking house. Do whatever you want. No, they're so scared. But you know what? You're scared that diving it's still going to show up in front of Congress. It's going to be all over. Listen, thank you, YouTube. Thank you, Tim Cook. Thank you everybody. I'll take everything. I'll say about that. Don't go. But no, we're we need to take the info words out of the app. The app is still on there. Time time. Time for that movement. Get that out of there. I mean, also, it's like, I'm sorry, you can host the info wars, then you can host my fucking porn app. Yeah, absolutely. Like I have a sick-ass

porn app I'm trying to get in the app store. You know how hard that gay dating apps have to walk the rules of being like, oh, I know, Ryan, like, the within the letter of the law and get, like, fucking, you can go on there and literally be like, you know, who's lying about existing dead kids? It's one of the, um, in-app purchase, hear more about that. It's one of the pioneers of the gay dating app, uh, world, in the gay dating app. You and Sal and the park, that's where you got that idea. I could tell you, have you seen my app? It's called park parker.

What's that idea? I didn't know that idea. It's not about idea. You know green spaces. Yeah. Media up with man and green spaces. Yeah. Just for any fun and laugh. Yeah. Friendship. Friendship. It needs to be very queer. Parker. I think I think we've got it. All right. What else? One more thing and then we're going to do we're going to talk to Taylor. What do we got here? A preview of my little talk show is coming on. Okay. Let's talk coming on on Sunday. Okay, let's talk about Ryan's gonna plug. Let's talk about Ryan's talk show.

It is called at twitch.tv slash Ryan show. Twitch.tv slash Ryan show. There's a preview episode up on Sunday night. Sunday morning depending on the upload. Depending on how much time he can put into it. Yeah. I'm going to a roller derby. Or a roller.

Oh, well, that's more important than putting a show out. That by all means. I'm going to a roller derby. Or a roller disc. Oh, well, that's more important than putting a show out. That by all means. All right, tell us about the show. It's called the Ryan Show. It's called just Ryan. Just Ryan. Ryan Show.

Ryan Show. Ryan Show. One word or two. Two words. Not the Ryan Show. Nope. Ryan Show. All right.

Tell me about Ryan Show. I think I should know more. This is great. I know. I have all new information. It's a streaming show that will be on Sundays on Twitch. I feel like I should know more. This is great. I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. and not as like fake scripted talk showy bullshit, like Jimmy Fallon being like, hey, how did you win on a vacation? Or like Seth Meyers being like, you're son, recently tripped. Like, they all do the same thing. And there's nothing wrong with it. It's just not what I want to do. So I heard a story. Yeah, exactly.

I want to do something where like Dick Cavett or Rosie O'Donnell in the 90s. Welcome to my fucking world, Ryan. So I want to tell you something. It's hard. Yeah. People are, you know, they're fickle people like podcasts. I mean, you're great. I'm saying that we want to you want to have

a good conversation. Yeah. And and by the way, Ryan's great at talking. I think as you can tell by listening to him here. So literally, you should tune in and subscribe to Ryan show at twitch.tv slash Ryan show. And I haven't seen any of it. So I can't, my official review will be in next week. We'll spend the first 10 minutes of me critiquing the show and giving you some. But we've got games, we've got cartoons, we've got interviews.

We have giveaways, you don't give away. Eventually, they'll be merged. Giveaways. Would I be able to win an Xbox if I watch your show? Not yet. Who owns Twitch? Is it Amazon? Amazon. Yeah.

You could win a Kindle Fire. Really? No, I don't know. You could just buy a Kindle Fire giveaway. Watch it on the Kindle Fire. I have an old Kindle that I really did. Donate. To the show.

To the show. We might need it on this gig again. Actually, I have a lot of shit sitting in boxes. Maybe there's some, like, you could just go through old things. Keyboards. Like the palm, the palm tablet. the palm, no, the tablet. Oh, I had the tablet too. Yeah.

What was that called? I had one to touch pad. Touch patch. Yeah, but so it's fun. I'm gonna have on comedians and guests. It's gonna be loud and weird and it's not gonna be about Trump. You're gonna get the penguin on.

I'm gonna try to get the penguin on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a get. It's not gonna be too political heavy. You're not gonna have a Trump at all. Oh, a little bit, but not too political heavy. Okay. And I'm working really hard on it,

so everybody come tune in. I love it. Twitch.tv slash Ryan Show. Yeah. Have preview episode coming up. I'll be talking about next week too. Sunday night or Monday. Okay, good.

We're gonna take a quick break. Yeah. And when we come back, we're gonna have a fascinating interview with a great person. Or something even more explosive. So stay tuned. Yeah, and when we come back, we're going to have a fascinating interview with a great person or something even more explosive. So stay tuned. What happens if you play monopoly with real money? You've got to pay the pipe. Okay, let's pay the pipe.

There are no fruit watches in this. Please be a reinvented game of an object. What does space sound like? What happens when you overwork yourself? Do you believe that work-related stress has increased? It reflects the fact of how little value we place on the well-being of human beings. The Outline World Dispatch Every Monday through Thursday we bring you a new story on the theme of power, culture, or the future.

And picked from theoutline.com. Find us an Apple podcast, Google Play, Spotify, your Amazon Alexa Flash briefing, or wherever you download your podcasts. Also, you can say, okay, Google, play me the news, and we're right there. Oh my god, yeah! Make your mornings a little weirder. My guest today is a fascinating internet personality and writer. I'm of course talking about Taylor Lorenz who is a staff writer at The Atlantic where she covers technology, social media, and internet culture. Taylor, thank you for being here. Thanks for having me.

It's a distinct pleasure to have you. And also, we were just talking about this, but I was at the verge launch party. Yeah. And I have a vague, and my memory's very bad, but I actually think I have a kind of vague memory of meeting you. You said you were with Ellis Hamburger? Yeah, I was with Ellis and Steve and some other friends.

And I was just a lurker that I got invited in, and I was just going up to everyone like, hey, I had just gotten, I was really into Tumblr at the time. I just got into Twitter account. I've actually gotten back into Tumblr. We can talk about that in a second. I think we should all wait. You just got into Twitter account.

And I was, yeah, so I was like very much like going around the party like, oh, do you have Twitter? Like, I'll add you. Was it? I mean, I guess, I guess in like 20, so we launched in a November of 2011. Now, I think we actually had the party the week of the launch. I think we launched on like a Sunday night

or something or a Monday, and then we did the party on like a Thursday. So that would have been, I think we did November first might have actually been our launch day. So, so. I think it was sometime end of 2011, probably. Yeah, that's exactly, yeah.

That would have been it. And we did it at the housing works, which is a space, which is right, well, it's in Soho. But, and I was saying, I was just saying, because I had not thought about it for a long time, but the launch sponsor for the Verge was BMW, and they brought like this extremely expensive like prototype or just super like, souped up sports car that was orange, bright orange, and they put it in front of the housing works as like a, hey, like BMW. And at the end of the night,

I was really drunk and I was like, laying on the hood of it, having people take pictures of me. Somewhere there are photos of me laying on the hood of that car, which I think I've seen, but get to work, internet. Anyhow, so you are at the Atlantic, the great and powerful Atlantic,

and you write about, I mean, you write about a lot of stuff that I think is in very much in our wheelhouse as well, like internet culture and we're just that's happening and badger that's happening. And we were just, we talked a little bit outside of the booth, but we, we, Ryan and I were just talking about Twitter and Jack Dorsey.

And, you know, I think it's interesting to see how this is, I mean, to your point, like, there was a point where people were excited about Twitter and really, like, happy about it. And we were commenting on the fact that, you know, before we were saying, like, well, Jack Joyce, you could just say nothing. I mean, what is your take? Like, what is going on with Jack Dorsey? And what is going on with Twitter's stance on this whole thing? I mean, he's been red-pilled.

Yeah. Yeah. I just think he doesn't know. He literally thinks it's some kind of like sociology experiment. He doesn't consider any of the like hard outcomes. I think this is what a lot of tech founders, like they're just very like conceptual. I don't think he's a great CEO. I don't necessarily think he should be CEO of Twitter.

Just case in point because the way he reacted, first of all, why is he out there tweeting all this stuff? Like he doesn't need to be tweeting. I think John Herman, like did this great tweet, where he just tweeted like the link to the Twitter search of Jack tweeting the word we, and it's just like all his really dumb public statements. Yeah, we believe, you know, it's like that stuff.

It's like, yeah, you know, just shut up. Just like, like, I feel like he just really loves being peers with Elon Musk. Like, he just really like salivates over that. I don't think he really, like I think he, he likes like adding him and seeing him at a party and being like, you know, the two of us masters at the universe, changing the game with cars

and me and information, freedom of speech. Like, he just like fucking gets off on that. I mean, Elon Musk definitely really likes Twitter. So, that's a fact. I mean, I mean, obviously like we're all journalists, like I absolutely believe in free speech, but he's just, he's creating PR disasters. Like what he should do is just be like,

look, this guy is awful, kick him off. It's my decision personally, like you were saying before. Like personally, I don't wanna deal with this anymore. He's gone. I mean, it was a big deal. It's my company. So I just think like, let's play out the scenario for a second where Jack says, look, we believe in free speech. I love free speech. But personally, is he a father? I don't know if he is.

Do you have kids? I don't think so. I don't think so. We don't need to know a lot more about his personal life. We need to look in deeply to his personal life. But you know, you could say, look, for a long time, we've supported all these different people and all these different perspectives. But I draw the line at people torturing the parents of murdered children. I think it's reprehensible.

I think it's offensive. And I won't tolerate it on this platform. And if you think we're the platform for the to torture the parents of children who've been murdered, I hear by draw a line in the sand. This is not the place for that. And it's like, no one would be mad about that except who? Alex Jones, people who are like, you're threatening free speech. It's like, the internet is the free speech platform, the internet. You could put, Alex Jones can start his own fucking Twitter if he wants, but like, it is not Twitter's

job to defend Alex Jones or to give him a place to speak. It's like, crazy to me. It's like, um, you know, I've seen this before, but it's like, we could put the protocols of the elders of Zion in the store window. We could put it on the back shelf or we could not sell it at all. You could put mine conf in the window on the back shelf or not sell it at all. It's like, if you want to fucking bookstore, you get to decide what you sell. And it's like Twitter's basically a bookstore of ideas. And they're like, look, we made a list of rules about the books. I wrote it myself. Also, by the way, he's single and he doesn't have any kids.

So is Jack Dorsey an in-sell just down to the question? Whoa. But, he could be like, he's like, look at these lists of rules about the bookstore. And then he's like, wrong, my hands are tied because these rules are made out. And it's on like a whiteboard. You made the rule, you're CEO of the company.

You can remake the rules. You can also, by the way, just pull an audible and just be like, look, you know what? This is morally wrong. And I'm just gonna make this comment like this. This is like Zuckerberg when he was like, he was like, look, I don't think I should be in charge of making those decisions about what's on our platform.

It's like, dude, it's your fucking platform. You build it up. It's like, I constructed this house. By not making a decision, you're making a decision. Mark Zuckerberg is like, I constructed the house. I put all the furniture in it. I got the put the locks on the door. I had the keys made,

but it's not really my job to say who comes in the house and who doesn't, is it? It's like, I don't know. It's your house, isn't it? Like, do you want your family members in there? Do you want just fuck it anybody? Like, I just think it's so, the dissonance, like, I'm not sure what they're trying to escape.

Like, I can't tell if Jack's actually maybe a little bit dumb. Like, I'm not saying he's not smart, but you and smart people can be stupid. And there's a blind spot. There's some weird blind spot. Is he red-pilled? I don't know.

Why is he on hand? What the fuck a hand? I mean, he does, that was ridiculous. Well, he does, yeah, that was ridiculous. What a bad look. I mean, in his comments, I thought what was so insane was those comments where he's like, well, journalists can fact check or whatever

These statements and it's like that's not a journalist job to like go, you know Deal with these online mobs and fact correct literally like journalist report facts like it's not their job to like have some debate Where you're debating a fact verse a conspiracy like they're not equal weight. Well, yeah, and it's just like there's a particular I don't know I get it. I get the thing, it's like, okay, well, there's- But like Alex Jones is on there, sorry, but like I have to say this right now. Alex Jones is literally broadcasting like fake news media, blah, blah, blah, blah journalists

or enemies of the people. And then he's turning around and being like, well if journalists would step in and correct him on that, like are you fucking kidding? I'm sorry. I mean, but you, you know, look, is it a slippery slope? As they say, I think maybe the fear is, look, is it a slippery slope, as they say? I think maybe the fear is if he does this without Jones, at some point, he's going to be confronted

with doing it with Trump. By the way, he did it with Milo. I don't understand the line. By the way. And do what you Trump see us all from dying by the way, apparently. So, Cara Swisher wrote this piece. I don't know if you read it for the times. I think the first opinion piece or second opinion piece, maybe. Which one was it? It's about the norrady. Yeah, I just saw the headline. I mean, I read it.

So she mentions offhandedly in the piece. And maybe I feel like this is like a whole news that you can expand upon that there is a plan for like pulling the rip cord on Trump. Like there's an internal plan at Twitter for like pulling like the cord on Trump. Like there's an internal plan at Twitter for like polling, like the whatever on Trump like. Is a button. There's a button or something.

Which is like, what does that mean? Like I don't know what that means. Like what would Trump have to do to make that happen? Like I'm curious to know, like is it a direct- Like is it like a bomb moment to be hitting us? Like if Trump tweeted like go to this house and kill this person. Would they ban his account for it?

I don't know. Trump was like, go to this address and kill Elizabeth Warren. Do you think that they would be like Trump, your band? I truly don't know. I mean, his excuses news are really nice, right? Yeah. Well, and also, right. And he's like a world leader and they have separate policies for world leaders.

Right. I mean, I would say they probably won't do anything because they can't even do anything about Alex Jones or any of the other people that are causing these problems. So, but it's, I mean. I wanna read this passage. Sorry, go ahead. No, nothing. Just, I just think this is an interesting,

hold on. But do you think maybe that button got made because the people, like engineers on the ground are like, well, we have, we have it. And like, Jack, I don't want it. You're like, well, we made it. The Twitter famously declared last year that Mr. Trump was, that since Mr. Trump was president,

what he said was news. And so he got immunity in a parenthetical. Is there a secret Rubicon that Twitter has in place that Mr. Trump cannot cross? Yes. Many sources assure me that there is indeed a pull emergency break plan for him, but it hasn't come to that yet. I mean, I doubt that it will come to it anytime soon when they can't pull an emergency break

type thing on Alex Jones or other people. I mean, but maybe the offense has to be so intensely severe. Yeah, I think it would have to be him like, I don't know. I mean, like, what would it be? You can't even imagine. You can't even imagine. You can't even imagine. You can't even imagine. You can't even imagine. You can't imagine the Rubicon. Like, what is it? Anyhow. So, yeah, this is all part of the modern arrangement

of internet people. And you write about this a lot. This is something that you cover on a regular basis. Some recent stories of yours. The, I read this story about apps trying to like, meme apps, people trying to like make memes faster, which by the way, I have to say, there is one thing that you link to in that story.

There's one person who's like, I think memes should be like really absurdist and crazy and like those memes are the crazy, they're not memes. They're just like weird art. And I think they're really good, they are not like, they don't make any sense. I actually produced a pretty great meme recently. Wait, which one was that, who, I wonder,

what was the meme? My meme was, it was a, this is the second time on the show that I'm finding. Plugging your reels. I'm just talking about tweeting out his speech. What I'm trying to say is like, here's a tweet I did. I would say people will probably dispute you. Like people in different meme communities will like dispute you on if you're like, that's not a meme.

They're like, no, this is just a new format. Well, everything's a meme. You're a meme, I'm a meme. How do I send this to you? What's the best way to get, I'll just show it to you. Yeah, just show it to you. I think it's pretty good. I was watching the vet.

Oh, well, that's a classic. The vet, you know, object labeling me. The vet, the vet, the trailer, which I was like, this is a perfect opportunity. What do you think about free to spread that around? Yeah. Okay, it's mediocre. Wait, is this a meme you talked about last week on the show? Did I? I'm trying to get a lot. I'm trying to get this me viral. Thanks for coming. So I want to show you this meme, which I think is free tweet. Taylor, thank you for being here. We talk about my news for a second. No, the one I'm trying to find the account which I think is free tweet. Taylor, thank you for being here. We talk about my memes for a second.

No, I'm trying to find the account that I was thinking of. Some of them are, some of them I grew with you. Some of them, there were other people that were reaching out to me for this story because I posted about it like in a couple group chats and they were like, oh, young nobody. Oh yeah. The shit's, this shit's really good.

That's so crazy. It's just really good. He's young, underscore, underscore, nobody. And it's very, it's very like, yeah, I don't know how to describe it. You have to look at it. It's like weird Twitter, but for me it's weird. Yeah, it is.

Yeah, it's almost like, almost in like, yeah. It's weird Twitter with picture in meme form. I also really like the show. A lot of word on it. Do you talk about the share zone in your article? No, but I mean, it's also kind of a like, the share zone is one of my favorites. You know, the share zone.

You should check it out. Okay, they're very good. Yeah. But yeah, no, I thought that story was really great. I was going through recent articles you've written. I thought it was very good. Teens are debating the news on Instagram. Terrifying.

That's about flop accounts. Oh, oh, plain plane bay you covered plane bay i wrote a couple things about plane bay okay so talk to you about that for a second plane bay is i think a real story of our time okay you know you know is it a is it a is it a privacy invasion i mean yeah i mean yeah

uh... but also fucking care so i'm sorry i get it there's so many things i can all be upset about lots of things at once I mean, yeah. Yeah. But also who fucking cares? I'm sorry, I get it. There's so many things to be upset. I know we can all be upset about lots of things at once. But who is the most mad about that? Who? People who, when she was like,

hey Buzzfeed, if you wanna hire me or whatever, that woman, everyone who works at Buzzfeed was like, hey fuck cart. And I was like, you guys steal and repost tweets for a living. You guys are job doing the exact same thing. So don't look at a fucking mirror version of yourself and be like, well, you're an idiot. I think if it was like 2012 or something, like she could, she would have,

that's how all those people got their job. Jenny Buzzfeed and Jenny Buzzfeed. Yeah. Buzzfeed Greg. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but look, but what you're gonna say? Yeah, sorry. Oh, I was gonna say, I thought it was really funny

was like the person that was like trolling her, replying like, hey, I'm Andrew from Buzzfeed, I'd love to bring you in for an interview. And like, I don't know, I'm gonna say I thought was really funny was like the person that was like trolling her applying like hey I'm Andrew from Buzzfeed. I'd love to bring you in for an interview and like Oh my god do it Rosie Who's the person that was doing for a while they were like pretending to be a Vox writer? Oh, yeah, they would do the same thing. I love at Christmas. Zina who's a different Christmas Zina who like works in like coding or something and he Cosplay is as the actor His Christmas Zina who like works in like coding or something. And he, he cosplays as the actor. And people will play back. Oh my God, he's so handsome. Is Chris Messina the guy?

The hashtag. The what? He's the, he's the actor on sharp barbed-back. He's the guy with like, but he also invented a hashtag, right? What? Oh, is that the guy? Wait, is Chris Messina the guy who is in six feet under,

who plays Claire's boyfriend at the end of it. He was on the Mindy project. Yes, yes. He's got like a cleft palate. Like he has like a cleft palate. Which like Laura finds very attractive. She loves like a repaired cleft palate.

It's like very sexy to her, probably. She likes, you know, obviously, she likes all sorts of hideous situations. Okay, now he's very handsome guy. Yeah, he's my top Chris. He's your number one Chris. Okay, guys, Chris Messina, the true number one Chris is the other Chris Messina. He's very like, I don't know if you guys listen to who weekly. I love that. Yes. Yes. Very much a who. He actually invented the hashtag. Well, he's not a, he's not a who. Well, I guess he kind of is not the, the, the Chris Messina

that invented the hashtag. No, wait, the Christmas scene actor or the other Christmas scene? The other Christmas scene. See, this is what is entire Twitter project is based on. He invented what hashtag? He invented the concept of a hashtag on Twitter. Oh, oh, right. He was like an early Twitter user. Yes.

Yeah, this is fucked up. Christmas scene talks about inventing the hashtag on Twitter to business insider. And he is like at Christmas scene. Yeah, he's at Christmas scene because the People at him. Oh, he follows me. Follow. I'm sorry to tweet that. I'm going to follow Chris Messina. I've decided just following him. Very cool.

I think I've actually interacted with Chris Messina now that I think of it. He's like very much on the internet. Yeah, the other Chris. The one dream that I'm on. He invented the hashtag and the world was never the same. Hashtag Maga. You know what I'm saying? Thanks a lot Chris Bessina the actor from the mini project giving us Jack Dorsey anyhow So you know the plane bay don't talk too much about it, but Listen everybody's got to cut it out the the lady Rosie the people complaining about it The people us complaining about her complaint. We all got a cool it

You know what I will say it's what's very rude is when somebody Instagram stories you without your consent. I think it's very rude and insensitive. I don't care who it is. I think it's like a shooting video of you and then it's on their stories. But it's better than just a straight up Instagram like where you don't look good. In fact, I think that's the period. I think I was like doing my hair last night and Eve R did this in the... I want to actually look at his story.

Go ahead, Tots. I was going to say on the way here, there was a guy lying down on the subway with his shoes off and like how does he had his feet up on the seat. And I was like, I could so easily put this on my Instagram story and I won't. Because I had like written this piece like, don't publicly shame people or something like like, like, like, like two weeks ago. And I was like, this is so, it would be very hyper-curvilic of me. But I was also like, what is this guy doing with his feet up?

I'm trying very hard to live up to my standards on social media. Like, I have every debate with myself if this need to be tweeted, or can I avoid using this horrible corporation? I need to have that debate. Or like, my new thing is don't retweet bad people, because you just don't give them the attention. Oh, yeah, yeah.

But every time I want to retweet, like, I got a sick burn for this. It's tough. Listen, I've learned recently, I've learned the best policies to never, ever, ever, ever, ever tweet anything you're thinking ever at all. Just promo for other things. Honestly, Twitter's bad. The people on it, the worst people on Twitter have found a way to be really, really fucking

awful with it. I mean, the James Guns, I'm not saying James Gunn was, is, is, the dynamics and really fucking stupid horrible jokes. He did. But like, does he deserve to have his entire career torpedoed because of those stupid jokes? Like they were, first of, unfunny. That's the number one offense in my opinion, not funny jokes. Bad jokes, very distasteful, but like, dude, like, everyone was held to the standard of

their worst joke from decades ago. Like, we would all die. I mean, more recently, the Sarah Jung thing, I know from the answer to her last name, right? That was crazy. I mean, look, I'll say this, like, I'm not, I'm not, I've not been red-pilled or anything, but it is, it is like, I was like,

wow, there are a lot of these tweets. Like, it's not like a few, there are many, many, many. Like, I was just kind of like, this is an impressive consistency over time to be like, fuck white people. And listen, I get it, Betty, Betty. Like I was just kind of like, this is an impressive consistency over time to be like fuck white people. And listen, I get it, fuck white people. As a white man, I am the worst. I can say I'm the worst, but it was a fucking straight people.

I'm saying all the time, you're all terrible. It was crazy, it was crazy watching that unfold and watching all the reactions to it and seeing like, and then seeing everybody else. Like I'm like, you know, it's like, should we all delete our history as maybe? I've been deleting my tweets for over a year. It's actually the one year anniversary.

Laura has been doing this forever. No, I've always been, I can't believe you're not doing it. And I've always been, you know, it's so funny when I was younger and when the internet was like a thing that was starting to happen. I was like, I had this, I was like, man, I wish like I could just capture everything in my life and like be able to go back to it and like see, like what I was doing at this time or conversations I had or whatever. And now I'm like, holy fucking shit, I have got to get a hazmat crew on my entire history.

Just not even on the internet. Like burn the pictures in my house, fucking shred the journals, like whatever there is. Everything I've done that I wasn't paid for, I will go find undelied. And I've been systematically doing that for ever. That's really smart. That's what I have to say. I actually don't, I mean, I've tweeted some dumb things or some rude things.

I, we used to get drunk on this podcast and just talk. I don't know what's in those, but I know my God. Oh my God. I mean, definitely, like, I don't know. I'm giving you a fuel for fire here. Like, you know what? I'm done.

I'm fine. Don't bother with me. I'm my tweets are great. But like, you know, is this, you've been on the internet, you're very on the internet, you're very online. Yeah. But I didn't get on the internet until like, after college, like, and I'm really grateful that I did.

I mean, I was like, I thought the internet was kind of like, lame and in college, I mean, I had Facebook, but I wasn't like on the internet until probably around 2010, 2011, so it's different than, you know, like I got to turn on bad romance and I got to watch the meme. Literally, I got on Tumblr, I got to discuss with Tumblr. Oh, let's talk about Tumblr, actually.

So I have, we're all moving back. Well, first off, I think Tumblr, well, I think Tumblr is alive and well. I mean, people are active on Tumblr. People are active on Tumblr. I follow people, it's like Pinterest. It's a real sleeper hit. Yeah.

No, I mean, it's just, it's like God, a real thing. And like, I think part of what makes Tumblr cool and interesting. And I even think I feel like this was a perception I had early on. I started using it. Is it a very open, is it creative space? Like it does not demand a one size fits all type of, it's like a CMS. We did, it's a blogging.

I mean, 100% a blogging platform. But like it also makes things, doing things simple things really easy. Like I want to put a picture up. It's like, okay, really basic. Like, or I want to like write a quick thing, or I want to like re-blog something and somebody else did. I think there are I want to write a quick thing or I want to re-blog something somebody else did. I think there are issues with the way it does that.

I think we're talking about this recently where, you put a picture on there and then say re-blogs that that picture's on there forever. You have no take-back capability. Yeah, in the way with Twitter, where if someone asks you, you can't delete their comment, like you can't on Instagram or Facebook.

Like someone asks you and says, you're a pedophile that exists forever with your name, searchable. Right, yeah, it's pretty crazy. But I do think Tumblr has a, there's something about it very much like Instagram. You know, and it's like, I don't know, pick your poison. Like I guess I'd rather give my time to Yahoo

than Facebook. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like, or like Verizon, I guess now. Yeah. But it's something so nice about a visual creative space to communicate with people in or just to find things in. You know, that's what I, Instagram is like, I think people like Instagram because it's like, the experience is actually like kind of visceral. It's not like, I have to process someone's outrage. It's like, I can look at things or interact with people.

Yeah. I don a magazine. Yeah. I don't know. Do you use it anymore? Tumblr. Yeah. I go on there a bunch. I mean, I've like, I unfollowed a lot of people. We followed.

So I just, I literally have a Tumblr tab open. I was like, well, it's Tumblr before we, before I came into the to the podcast, I was just going through my feed. I've been going back because I'm nostalgic for it. And like, it's just a good, like, I actually, it's funny because like, I also feel like when I got into Tumblr, also, there was like this primal like media companies were all in Tumblr. It was a lot of normal attention on Tumblr and it's almost, it's nicer now that it's sort of like, is under the radar.

There are these really great communities. People are funny on it. It's just smaller. It's like, I don't know, it's more peaceful. Instagram is still like this big and you feel like you're being marketed to and there's all this, I mean Tumblr, it's all this ads all over. But like, yeah, their ads are really bad too. That's the one thing. Tumblr's ads are really truly bad and they I think they can be a lot better and like, there's a huge room for improvement there.

But it is different than Instagram. Instagram feels like everybody's showing off. Yeah. I don't even like going like people always talk about being compulsive like I got to open it. Like I close Instagram and I immediately re-opened it. What's wrong with me? Like I opened it maybe once a day,

like post a picture of something I took earlier. I like, I'll like scroll for two seconds and I'm like, I don't like this. And I like put it down. Twitter, like I guess there's jokes and that's what I'm interested in. Like seeing people's most posed and Photoshopped version of themselves

on the beach, raining exact same outfit. Everyone's wearing the same outfit. And they're all like, you know, two weeks ago, TBT missed my vacay. Like, it doesn't interest me. I just get nothing out of it. Even the stories, I'm like, okay, you had iced coffee. Like, I just, I understand I sound like my mom who was like, what do you tweet with your

head for lunch? But like, I just don't see the, I don't get sucked into it. I do. Okay, so I have like eight Instagram accounts that I am about right now. I'm talking about you. Yeah, I'm fenced is. I have, like, yeah, I mean, I just started when I got really into birds. Recently, I really wanted birds. I have a bird fan account that I'm accumulating followers. Finstas. I have, like, yeah, I mean, I just started when I got really into birds.

Recently, I really wanted birds. I have a bird fan account that I'm accumulating followers. This is like my tumblers. I have, hold on, I'm gonna count. T.L. bird lever. I'm gonna count my tumblers. It's bird underscore fan underscore. I'm about to blow your mind.

I have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 different tumblers. Josh, at my people, I had over 80 tumblers. At my, oh, 80. So I wear single serving over those things. I had some amazing tumblers. I had one that was guilt models, which was, do you remember the product guilt?

Yeah, okay. It was like a blog of the weird looking models from guilt. Let me just bust a set. But that was like, you would have like these single, oh my god. There's some content. Wait, sorry, I'm trying to scroll here.

They look so sad. Yeah, sorry. They all look sad and there's some really bad fashions here too. Like this guy, this guy's like, doesn't know what to do with his hands. This, whatever's going on here. That's the one. That's the shirt.

This shirt has so much going wrong. It's more of a drag. Yeah, yeah. And then I did one for a while because I was really into bags. I was like running a Home network. Tell me about some of your Tumblr. People could submit to them, which was made it really easy. You can ask questions. Yeah, you know, there's content That's the thing the community aspect of it is like when I post on Tumblr now It's mostly like visual stuff or like weird computer stuff or whatever like but like I feel like I

like weird computer stuff or whatever. Like, but like, I feel like I can express, be expressive in a bunch of different ways. And also the goal is not for people to be like commenting on my ship, but they're like, I think this is cool. Therefore, I'm liking it or I'm sharing it also because I like it. And like, the interactions are like, not about, it's not like a comment thread.

Yeah. Basically, it's actually kind of hard to comment on things on Tumblr. This is like, re-blogging. People can talk to you, but it's kind of buried, which is nice. Yeah. I think, actually, I mean, I feel like we may be working on a Tumblr piece. Don't see all this idea.

I wanted to do a huge, before I left L.A.B., it's like, I wanted to do this huge plus more dumb thing on Tumblr than I did in the... But it's like, it's like, it's like a, but it's, I do, daily beast, I wanted to do this like huge plus more dumb thing on Tumblr than I didn't. But it's like, it's like, it's like a, but I do think it still has a lot of life. But I think more than anything what I'm looking at now is I'm like, I don't wanna be on Twitter or Facebook anymore. Like I just don't.

If there was an version of Instagram that was like no pictures, but you could write a little post and then like people could like it, but it's not really focused on what people are like, and I could turn comments off, or just like filter them myself, and then like they were on a nice little page, and like sometimes you could go through your feed

and other times not, and like just a really simple version of Twitter with like so much of the, I've everything removed, just everything. It was a really clean little post, little high coup. How do you get, how do you get, but like isn't of the, I've everything removed. Just everything, there's really clean little posts, little high coups. How do you get, but like isn't like Twitter, like Twitter is kind of part of why Twitter is crazy is because I mean, to your point about like brands

using Tumblr, like I remember when we, like at Engage it we were like, we were like, oh, we have like a bunch of Tumblr's like we'd like put Engage content on Tumblr, like we're trying to like promote our stuff, like a social network. When I worked at MTV it was all about putting gifts of TV on Tumblr. Yeah, I was gonna say stuff, like a social network. When I worked at MTV, it was all about putting gifts of TV on Tumblr. Yeah, I was gonna say I live gift,

like some awards show at one point. Yeah, and you were like, I'm people are gonna use my gifts and I'm gonna monetize that somehow. Yeah, I'm doing it all in Photoshop. Yeah, wow, wow, that's a lot of effort. Yeah, but then it's like brands shifted to, you know, I think, well, certainly in the journalism space,

like Twitter and then Facebook eventually. And I think that it became about like, who's got the thing, the thing is happening. Like, here it is. And like, you know, once you start doing that, then it's like this volume business. It's like, oh, everybody's doing the thing. And now it's like the feed.

And I don't know how you get to like, no one wants to just like talk to each other. Yeah. Not really. I do. I just want to be in a little slackroom. I just to just like talk to each other. Yeah. Not really. I do. I just want to be in a little slack room. I just want to move all of gay Twitter into a little slack room and then just exist there

and not have to fucking, I don't like, I don't want to be on Twitter. I don't want to be found by Cernovich and have him read my fucking thoughts. Cernovich is getting caught, yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Why isn't he banned?

I guess it's the worst. He, yeah, well, he's a different story. But, but I do think he should be banned. Yeah, well, he's a different story, but I do think he should be banned. No, I mean, I don't know. Really? You like Cernivage? No, but... Your body's a Cernivage.

But it's like Ben Chiro. You know, Ben Chiro. You know, Ben Chiro. You know, he personally. I don't like Ben Chiro. Have you ever been in the same room with Mike Cernivage? I used to cover politics, so yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's too bad. But I mean, that's so much... It's like these people... I don't know. but I do wish, what I do wish, I kind of agree with you on Twitter that you could like segment it. Like I wish that there was like ways that you could just like some giant sucker.

I'm like, I'm gonna. They want you to use lists, I'm never fucking, but I'm actually curious. For people who use lists, there are people that want to label me like, the liberal faggot, and they want me to get the notification that I'm on a list. Are you on a list?

I'm on a list. I'm on a list. I was on that list? I'm going to get one of those. I'll let's actually type a certain of it for a second, because I, from what I can perceive, Cernovich is an active participant and or ringleader of targeted harassment of people on Twitter. Yeah. I mean, my perception is he specializes in getting large groups of people on Twitter to go after other people on Twitter. To me, that should be a fucking instant ban. To me, that's like, if you are participating in mob harassment of people, what? It's like rating. You're rating. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I agree that

that's like a really bad bit. Twitter should have some way to like throttle that or something. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you should be able to like, you should be able to like, um, I was saying like, I remember when I was getting some torrent of shit like a long time ago, I was like, why can't I basically say block everyone who follows this person? Like, like, you, if you were like, like, block chains exist. They just never really incorporated it as part of their product. But like, if you'd been like block everybody who follows Mike Cernovich from being able to like talk to me, you would have an immediate like

that whole mob thing would end because like it really is like an echo effect, right? And then like you sell pockets or waves of it, but they don't want to do that because it hurts like engagement, engagement, you know? Because it's a fucking business. So it's weird as like Twitter's like we're a for profit business and we've got to keep the stuff moving then they're like we're for profit business

So we're gonna do things that are gonna be really unpopular with a large large segment of the audience. Yeah, I recently tweeted This thing about this avocado toast order that I had That was go clean. Oh my god. Well, please there's articles about it now, but it was crazy So I ordered from this place I ordered from all the time. It said they're fine. Whatever was $22. I was like, wow, it just comes up. Tell a little ranz, avocado toast. It is my legacy now. And but these I tweeted like, hi, order $20. Oh, boy. Okay. So this one came like as it like as a self-own clear joke. Like it was it also, I didn't name the restaurant because I'm not an asshole. Oh, the rap. The rap is bad. Can I just

say the rap? Oh, the rap. What is going on? Something's going on. Oh, the rap, the rap is bad. Can I just say the rap fucking rap stuff? What is going on? Something's going on with the rap. What is going on? I think the rap, I think the rap has got some weird right wing thing that's going on with them, and I don't fully understand it. Like a more secretive TMZ. Yeah, yeah, there's something fucked up about the rap. I don't ever read the rap, and I don't, even,

totally, I don't pay attention to it, but they wrote about my avocado. This is fucked up. This is fucked. It's fucked up. I mean, it just fucked up. but they say right about my avocado. This is fucked up. This is fucked. It's fucked up. I mean, it just fucked up. Well, I got all these people. It basically the replies to it, Josh,

devolved into this like being like, oh, like young socialist, why don't you pay off your student debt? Like all these crazy things, like what are you doing? And I'm like, whoa, whoa, I answered. I tried to like mute it all, but I finally was like, well, first of all, I'm not political on Twitter, literally at all. So please don't assume my political least. Second of all, like, you're on Twitter, literally at all, so please don't assume I political least.

Second of all, you're at all right, aren't you? I mean, it's just like it was so crazy how quickly it developed into like debate about healthcare and like money and like all this stuff and I'm like, I literally like, so these responses are pretty good, yeah. Well, the one, the one? That was pretty funny.

Okay, I'm sorry, just dude, you're literally taking an hour out of your day to ruin your own condiment drama, to assault, to do it, to own me on my own self-own. No, I'm sorry, people are fucking losers. I mean, to you were seeing the maps that some of these people make about the conspiracies, it's like, it's like, how many hours did you spend on this fucking, like, how many hours did you spend going through Sarah Jong's tweets and finding, every time she said white person, and then, this is why I should all just get an aquarium and then

I'm just getting a query and then fucking screenshot and then cropping it and then putting it laying it out. It's like you're a fucking loser. Yeah, I'm sorry. You just don't I don't know if you get these people. I mean this this PBJ tweet is kind of fine. There are other ones of that people were doing parodies and then somebody was like, Hey, you know, this is this is a very like white person thing. Mexicans, what can you buy with $20? And that was like the only thread that made me happy.

People were just tweeting like, good Mexican food at me, but everyone else was like, please die. I mean, it's like that. I mean, I get, look, I get people making fun of you. I mean, I did it. I tweeted that being like, ha ha, you guys can, like, I thought like it'd get faves.

Like, you know how you tweets have to kind of like make fun of yourself. I was like, wow, I was so lazy. I fucking ordered this toast. Can I ask the question? The $22 was the entire order. Was the entire seamless order. Okay, so what else was in the order? No, that was it.

Okay, so how much was the toast itself? Like $14 or something? It was, yeah, something. It was like around $14 or $16. It was like a delivery fee. Dollars, I tip and cash. Thank you. $5.

And I, So you're including the tip in that number? No, not including the tip in that number. So it was $22 just for the toast. It was $22 for the toast. What was the restaurant you ordered from? I don't want to name them because after this all drama, I go there all the time.

And by the way, the toast usually comes with a salad. It was supposed to be more. Yeah, oh wow. Okay, so that makes sense. Yeah, it's a surprise meal. So you get an all the kinds of toast and a salad. I can see that, I can be $22 in New York. Yeah, and it comes with an egg tube and an vegan. So can see that I can be $22 in New York. Yeah.

Well, it comes with an egg tube, but I'm vegan. So they charge you for the egg any? Yeah. It's crazy. I like the place, but when it came, I was just dying. And I was like, it's funny. It's funny. I'm glad that I'm glad this was also a story on sports.yahoo.com.

Social media users, troll journalists, you can plan about $22 or avocado toast. I mean, vice wrote about it. Why is it wrong? It's just like the, this is the content. There's like a robo video of this on Yahoo, dude. This is why the internet is fucking garbage. By the way, this need to fucking all glum onto this fucking meaningless story. Like no offense.

Like I think you, I think it's ridiculous. I think it's ridiculous that you pay $22 for off a cato toast. Okay, I do. And I'm offended. But like, it's, this is pay $22 for all of the cryo tests. Okay, I do and I'm offended. But like, this is what I was saying about a plane bay, which is like, who fucking cares? Just seriously, it's like, everyone just needs to come down. I get you on your Twitter user,

I'm like, oh, I've got a good burn for this one. I get it, you're a comedian on Twitter, good for you. But to have fucking Yahoo sports, create a Robo video about your fucking tweet and the reaction to it on Twitter is exactly why we are in the fucking shit storm that we are in every fucking day of our lives in this country and around the world. And I just want to say, this shit is why Trump is president. That's all I have to say.

I mean, that's not all I have to say. I have a lot more. I'm very angry about this. By the way, this is, you know, I did an off-color tweet recently about a well-known conservative pundit. And it also turned into a similar shit show, but you know, where I was like an anti-Semite and all this bullshit. And the rap did a story about it.

And almost no mainstream, zero mainstream, the only people who really were picking up are these weird fucking like, you know, gateway pundit or whatever these fucking shit holes are. And it was like, and then the rap. And I was like, what? Like, why is this a story for them? The rap is supposed to be an entertainment. I, I, I, I, I never, I don't really follow it. I was like, I was like, this is crazy.

That this is like, do you have an editor working at this place? Because like my editor, if I pitched him a story on a tweet, like that would be like, okay is crazy, do you have an editor working at this place? Because if I pitched him a story on a tweet, that would be like, okay. No. No, here's the deal. Here's the deal. People are in fucking sweatshops. These young people, these young bloggers

are in these fucking layman sweatshops, and they're like, get a story, we'll get views, we'll kind of go viral, get clicks. Like, what's happened? What's trending? What is the fucking thing that everybody looks at? You know, the Facebook tool. Oh, yeah, like the trending,

and the crowd-tangle? Crowd-tangle. They're like, oh, this is trending on crowd-tangle. Like, write a story about it. Like, this is the enemy of fucking intellect. This process, and it's why we're all in, it's why one, we're all angry all the time, and two, why Facebook and Google

and fucking Twitter have completely ruined, like, discourse. But also, it is a angry all the time. And two, why Facebook and Google and fucking Twitter have completely ruined like discourse. But also, it is a huge waste of time and energy and brain power, and we need to get out of the cycle. Yeah, we need to break the cycle. We do. This is literally why we started the outline, but anyhow, that's self-promotion. That's fine.

But you know, it's fucking hard. Like, people, like, we don't do breaking news. And it's like, you know, we're not axios and it's like people are like, hey, I really like that axio. So I'm like, is it because you saw them on your feet because they published 70 stories a day. Yeah, I get it. Like there they are. But like, you know, it's like people, people need the fucking hit. It's like we need to get off the pipe basically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I agree. I mean, it's hard. I mean, I've worked at places that are very much like

In that realm and I think it's it's just it's so hard and you're just it's it's draining it's draining Has the Atlantic on that point? Let's talk a little bit inside baseball has the is the Atlantic because the Atlantic at one point Was definitely I felt like it was sort of playing more of that game But I think recently it's cooled a bit like there's less like I see less Atlantic jumping on. This thing just happened. It was the same time it was like slate. These are hot takes. We got hot takes. We got cold takes. We got medium takes. All the takes. Take, take, take, all that long.

And recently they were like, we have less takes. And it was like, I think you're late. Do you still like mine? I never feel pressure to do takes. 2013. I mean, I have an amazing editor. Ellen Cushing shout out. But I mean, I have an amazing editor, Ellen Cushing, shout out. But I mean, it's a different, it's a slower pace,

it's a different, it's a totally different, but it's very similar to, I mean, I would say it's very similar to daily beast, although when I was a daily beast, it's much more scoop driven. So you're much more like out there or kind of like doing that, but, but I mean, I personally love it.

So it's, I don't know that I could go so easily back to like when I was a business insider, like the sort of journey to business inside, I personally love it. It's a, I don't know that I could go so easily back to like, when I was a business insider, like the sort of journey to business insider, I loved it. I learned so much, but it's you, I think you just get burned out. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's funny because in the,

in the early days of blogging, I mean, it's crazy because I've had people now and they're like, ooh, I gotta do two stories a day. That's, I don't know, like, yeah. And I was like, listen, motherfucker. When I started blogging, it was like 10 minimum, 10 blog posts, bit above a day. Like, you saying shit.

I was talking, do you guys know Needson Zimmerman at all? I know him through, I don't really know him, but I know the, you know from Gokka. Yeah, well, he is, so I worked for him when I was covering politics at the Hill for two years, most of the last year. And he's just a absolute, like, I mean, just an insane hard worker. And he was always talking about that because he'll be like, no, I feel like there's one

of those old people, like, now I'm like, you in my day, because like, it's different. There's some, no, when I was blogging for GLAD, I had to do like nine stories a day. What, he needs to be like 20? Like a gay person with, yeah, the official statement of the GL, we're going to be like, where I'd gocker. Oh, he was saying that when Needson was at Gawker, I'm pretty sure he was doing like something. I mean, he did all the viral hits, but that's the thing. Like, if you go down that road, it's just, it's a hard path and it's really hard to sustain. And ultimately, you're end up doing Robo videos.

Right. No, well, now it's like, yeah, I mean, it's been converted into some other forms, but it's just an algorithm pulling whatever's on Reddit and it's kind of like, just chasing, just everybody chasing their tails and chasing somebody else's story is just a really bad way to be. And I think that for all of the democracy,

the democratic landscape now of the internet, like you can be, I'm just one person and I'm gonna start a thing and I'm gonna go do it. Like, it's definitely true that like if you started breaking news blog right now, like you can compete, like you could definitely get in there. Like people will accidentally, like through SEO and like gaming, Twitter and Facebook.

Yeah, you're right enough, like you and on stories, one of them's gonna hit. Yeah, you'll get your photo tweets. But like that is like, I looked a bit, I look at a lot of businesses in in the landscape And I'm like why why do you exist like I know you can do it? Yeah, but like what is it about the way you do? Why do you wake do wake up in the morning and you're like one of these posts is gonna hit number out of that No, I think it's it's an arbitrage business

It's basically like if I can do this many stories and get this much traffic I can sell this many ads and if I get this number a little bit lower than this number, I have a business. And it's like to what end? And they're like, well, exit or whatever the thing is, like, I don't know what, like I think at the New York Times and the post, maybe not the post so much, but a few other places they're starting to pull back on this a bit. I mean, the post is like 17 QAnon stories. So I don't think they get to comment.

But, but I do think some of the larger publishers are pulling back from it, although like then you look at the New Yorker and all of some of the New Yorkers, like, we are, we invented blogging now. Like, they're like, we're going to do these things. It's like, short, a couple paragraph takes on a story that we haven't, the first party reported, it's like, so blog posts, and then like, what's a blog post? Um, but you know, that would just crazy to me, like, to see like the New York they're like, what's a blog post? But you know, that would just crazy to me like to see like the New Yorker being like,

let's try to keep up with the Joneses. But I don't know. It is a hard business. It's a terrible business. Don't get in it. To all my folks out there. It's very different than it used to be. Yeah, well, I mean, I didn't get into media till 2012,

but it would even. It would even since then. Oh my God, it's so different. I mean, it's so different. It's so different. I who knows what's going to mean 2012 to your point? Like people are like, Oh, I just have you heard about this thing called Twitter. Yeah. And now it's like the president is literally placed where the president does

his most important talking. Yeah. Yeah. We're going back to Zines. I agree. I think that's what I do. Yeah. Yeah. Have you published anything in the magazine? No, I just started two months ago. Oh, you're brand new. Yeah. And you were at the hill. I think that's what I do. Yeah. Yeah. Have you published anything in the magazine? No, I just started two months ago. Oh, you're brand new. Yeah. And you were at the hill. I was at daily beast before that. And then I was at the hill before that I covered the election. Oh, yeah. You were there. You were at the hill during the election. And I left right around after a little bit after Charlottesville.

That was my. You were you were you were you were you were. Was that was that was it? Did you make a conscious decision to say like, I don't want to do this kind of reporting? That story covering that story was sort of like my, that and then I interviewed, I covered Milo's re-speech Berkeley thing like two weeks later and I interviewed him and I just, I just, I sort of, I was like, you know what?

What I really love is like internet culture and I had been covering it before and I wanted to just, I was like, why am I doing this? Right, yeah. Well, I don't know, I just write about what I really love is like internet culture and I had been covering it before. And I wanted to just, I was like, why am I doing this? Right now. Well, I don't know, I just write about what I love. And I also feel like I wasn't ever gonna be like one of the best political, you know,

I was basically doing breaking news like videos. And I just, yeah, I figured I'm not. Charlotte's feel is just so bad. And my experience there was, I live streamed her death. I don't know if you guys have been there. Yeah, I, yeah, I, now I remember that. It was just like bad. And I was just like, this is awful. I feel, I feel, I don't know if you guys know. Yeah, I, yeah, I, now I remember that. It was just like bad and I was just like, this is awful.

I feel, I feel awful. I mean, not that I'm not proud of the work I did, but it's just, yeah, I was just like, I'd rather go about, I'm very interested in memes and also it was, it was, I felt like the internet was changing so much and I wanted to write about other stuff. I think, I mean, even, you know, we obviously do, we cover politics, but in a very, like, choosy way, you know? And I think we had a point where you'd probably last year some time and I was like, I just think we need to kind of

a Trump ban, unless we really have something interesting or we're contributing in some meaningful way. Like, I just would like to talk about him and what he's doing as, like, as little as possible to some extent. Like it's really well covered. You know, in there are places where we can be effective, but I think it's hard. It's like, it is a downer.

I mean, the whole political landscape right now is like, it's ugly. I mean, it's just ugly. I'm just not a politics nerd in that sense. I'm not saying I don't care about politics. Like I definitely care about politics. But I'm not like a very DC. I'm not saying I don't care about politics. I definitely care about politics. But I'm not a very DC. I was in New York after college and I've been to DC for tears.

I don't think that it's my vibe. I like that. DC also sucks. Yeah, it's just very slow. And unless you're doing the most wonky, wonky, wonky thing. I wish I'm not going to do. Yeah. I like to be around creative, weird shit.

It's really hard to get. Baltimore is great. But DC is so nice. Yeah, I like Baltimore. DC is just like, and like it's really hard to get Baltimore. It was great, but DC's just like, there's just something like young Republicans there and stuff like just like people. I'm like, do you imagine being on a date with them? Callers, just like callers up and stuff. Anyhow, we should probably wrap up, but because I feel like we've gone long and I don't know when. You need me to say no thing. So what's coming next? Like what are you working on now? I'm working on, I don't know how much you guys realized give me a say no. So what's coming next? Like what are you working on now?

What's that? I'm working on, I don't know how much you guys realized. I've got a lot about like teen stuff now. I'm really interested in like different ways that people use, you know, emergent user behavior, I guess you could say I'm like, I love it. Yeah. So that's what a lot of teen stuff do. So I'm working on a couple of things related to like teen and Instagram and different

weird things are doing Instagram. I'm very interested in the, that's, I will be, I will look forward to reading that because I'm very interested in the trend lines of teens and their behavior and use of the internet and technology because I think it is like a harbinger and the, the signs that I see and you correct me if I'm wrong, the signs that I see are like a lot of the things that people are like, wow, it's the best, it'll never die, it's going to make so much money are like definitely going to die in the next like five to 10 years.

Like apps and things. Or like just like Facebook. Yeah. Well, Facebook, I mean, I think they had mine, but they have Instagram, which is only growing. Yeah. I think the next Twitter clones taking that whole shift down. I think, but I think Instagram is a saleable in a lot of different ways. Yeah.

Well, I think there's a fatigue. I need TV will fail, but I think otherwise Instagram is here. Yeah, I don't know. I look at Instagram and I've looked at Instagram a lot last recently. I feel like I'm also a very low effort or interest in posting to Instagram. So I think for teens, that's where their identity lives.

And also that's where they experiment with identities. And I think that that serves a really valuable purpose and so they're like very engaged in it in that way. Also that's like where their friendships are formed and live. And I just think like it's gonna be hard to break that. I mean, everything sort of happens. Like we were talking about iMessage and iMessageLockin. Instagram MessengerLockin for younger like people who are like five

years younger than me and down is real. Like they use that for text. Yeah. And literally it's so funny because I was just tweeted yesterday, like Casey Newton had this story a few months ago, like Instagram through working on its own direct, separate messaging product. I was like, what happened to that?

And he said, like, he talked to sources and they might be working on it or whatever. I do think if they, I mean, if they split messaging from that, that would be really weird, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, it's gonna work. I don't think that's a good idea, necessarily, but I- The day with Facebook did hurt. I mean, I think it probably grew that.

Yeah, I know. Well, if people were like messenger, I don't know. I's gonna work. I don't think that's a good idea, necessarily, but I- But again, with Facebook, did hurt. I mean, I think it probably grew that. Yeah, I know. Well, people are like messenger. I don't know. I think that they need better functionality in Instagram, but I do think like, I just, for teens, like I just think that it's, they're definitely hooked on Instagram.

I will say I've definitely found myself using, talking to people more on Instagram through the messaging component of the app. I think it's very poorly designed, how it's integrated. Now, once you get used to it, you're like, okay, I understand. But it's, I mean, in that sense, it's very Snapchat, like, it's like kind of

an arcane placement, like just a weird. But if there's anything teens are good at, it's figuring out you are, is it? Yeah, I mean, that's true, but it's native to them. If you were like, if you've been like 12, using it since you were 12 and you're like 18 now, or whatever, it's not gonna be, it's gonna be like second nature.

No, I think it's really interesting. I mean, you're right about Instagram. It's interesting about the one-to-one communication. I do think there's everything, every social network has a shelf life. I totally agree. Like, we talk about these, like people are like Facebook will just print money forever.

And it's like, no, no. No, no, no. Maybe with their analytics and their evil technology, they've developed and stuff like that, like they might become like Grumman. I don't think they're gonna be a popular consumer. I think it loses its cultural relevance. And once it sort of loses that cultural relevance,

it's really hard to recover from. And I also think it's like there are lots of ways to get what you get on Facebook. And increasingly Facebook feels like a place that you don't want to be. And like if you want to talk to somebody or share photos or express yourself, there's a bunch of different ways to do that that don't require the experience of Facebook. And so, I don't know, I feel like I can very clearly see, and maybe not the death of, but the extreme decline of Facebook.

Yeah. Because a, no, there are certainly countries where Facebook has monopolized, like they're monopolized its presence there and it's like they are the internet in those countries. That's a place where only regulation is going to be able to tackle it. Also in this country, I think regulation is going to happen at some point. It's crazy that they're not regulated. It's crazy that Google is not regulated more than it is. It's insane when you look at the Microsoft regulation,

this seminal case for Microsoft where they basically said, you have to make it, you have to basically divide these things. You can't bundle all the stuff together, you can't force people into your product. If that happened to Google or Facebook right now, it would have crazy impact. Because there's so much bigger in terms of the reach.

Yeah. You know, so it's interesting to see. Well, okay, good. So some teen reporting from you. Some teen stuff. More teen stuff, hopefully. YouTube. YouTube reporting.

That's a sh**. A lot about you. I used to write more about YouTube, but yeah. Are you a big, are you a big YouTube user? Are you do, do you subscribe to a lot of people? Yes. What's your top channel on YouTube? Like what do you look?

Actually, we've been saying that we want to do, and this is good, we should end the conversation with three things that you love on the internet. And you could be YouTube channels or whatever. I'm actually, I'm always looking for content. Well, okay, YouTube channels, they're all bad. I mean, I write about it like, you know, YouTubers, I like Alex the. I mean, I write about it like, like, you know, YouTubers.

I like Alex the honking bird, which is my new bird. He's a YouTube bird. Honking cockatiel. Yeah, he is Alex the honking cockatiel. Okay, I'm looking at this right now. What is he? He's got almost 100,000 on it. Wow.

So, he's so cute. Wait, what is this, a honky potter? Wow, damn. This is some, this is the next level internet shit. Oh Sorry here. I can't see it if I oh yeah, I saw that video already. It's It's their hot Hunky body with an ordinary bird and You guys I just want a bird so badly that I'll look at anything I would say I Would say I get a bird they're really cheap you could buy one at any pet store. You're a wizard. Honky. You have to raise it

Josh is killing. I don't know where that is. And they're smart like kid. All right. I would say, yeah, meme, I mean, young nobody is a great young nobody's great young underscore underscore. Nobody. Yeah, I should follow young nobody, but I don't I kind of don't like like internet content in my Instagram feed.

You got to set up a lurker account. Yeah, but I don't have time for that shit, man. Lurking. I gotta, in this economy. In this economy. All right, what else? What more? Yeah, that's tough, isn't it?

I don't know. I know I'm looking at my explorer page right now. Oh, boy. You're looking at Instagram. Well, Instagram is, I'm not gonna recommend Twitter because it's accessible. Yeah, why would you recommend Twitter? I'd be insane.

I mean, YouTubers, I just follow trash. I don't know. I like a lot of like, I don't know guys. Like, my Twitter account. Well, you're a bot, I'm a cheater. Your Twitter account. So, wait, back, please, I think. Taylor Rans.

Is that really not? Oh, I'm obsessed with these like weird, I really, I want to write about it, but I need an angle other than like, look at these girls. There's these two girls. One is called Champagne and Chanel and one is my one is something else like that. Anyway, these girls just like Dallas, Texas, like Instagrammers and they just have this

like crazy life and it's this life that's like just so devoid of like stress and I don't know. They just seem really happy. I'm looking at the camera. Like lifestyle bloggers and interesting. Yeah, it's Emily Herron, a fashion lifestyle. This is a fashion lifestyle blog by Emily Herron. There's something to her and dress up but her best friend.

When I go on their Josh's, it's just like, I'm like, what? It's like these girls that I think would never have even been friends with me growing up. But I like get this weird kind of like. Oh, wow. I don't know what. This is a weird, I mean, this is a, I'm not.

Yeah, I'm not. This may be, as a white man, I may not be allowed to say this, but I feel like this is very basic. It's so basic. It's the deepest. Oh, you have to embrace the basic, this is a truly basic. I watch every party makeup video because it's basic,

but she just emanates this like Katy Perry basicness, like Starbucks Frappuccino. This reminds me of St. St. It reminds me of I for a while I followed this woman who was an interior designer and she has like a really beautiful. She's like super blonde has this like blonde family and she's like pretty good interior designer. And this way like everything is like in her pictures is like just so. And I'm like and after a while I was like I have to unfollow this

because it's like I feel like I'm it's a little self-harm like a little bit like your life is too. I know it like American, it's like American Christian blonde perfect, like I got a back out of this. I am friends with the lifestyle blogger and I'm not doxing them, but up close and personal, like, yeah, they do do the work to maintain all of the like perfect Instagram. But also comes extremely naturally close and personal and I'm like, I'm not a human being in person. And I'm like, I'm not a human being. I, or I'm not, you're not a human being.

We're not, or at least we're not the same species. Cause like they're, how their apartment's always clean. That's what I'm like. It's like clean apartments. Like here, done, they're wearing makeup every day. And there's a perfect mirror. Perfectly placed to do their outfit of the day.

And there's just no like, there's none of the like misery and stress that I have every day. They take a picture at the end of their yoga class and I'm just like a sweaty like, I got a wipe some stuff, fuck at the end of that. Yeah, I'm obsessed with these girls' lives and I, but they are extremely basic.

Uh, okay, Ryan, so that's your third thing. Yeah. Ryan, three is three. Well, I'm gonna give one because we're gonna run out of three. If we do three every week, we're gonna run out of three. All right, fine. All right, I really like, I'm gonna give one because we're gonna run out of three if we do three every week We're gonna all right fine. I really like I guess something real quick a YouTube channel called internet jewels where she does songs She'll in like an hour

But edited down right a song in the style of an artist and they're functionally Indistinguishable from the actual songs these artists release, but she does one like panic at the disco halls the Taylor Swift pop Taylor Taylor Swift country. And she like, you can watch her process. And you're like, holy shit, these songs are so formulaic and easy to mimic, and it's really fun. So I guess I have to think of something now, huh? I mean, listen, I've been doing a lot of internet shopping,

or at least internet browsing, which I think is a great pastime. I'm a big fan of, here's, this is a little esoteric, I'm a big fan of Save for Later, which is I wanna buy something, I think, it's like writing a letter to somebody, you're mad at and you write the letter and you're like, you know what, just having written it, I feel like I don't have to send it.

I'm a big fan of like, I've been like looking at two pairs of Nike shoes, which I definitely shouldn't buy and should not be spending money on at all, and don't need, because I have plenty of shoes and also probably would only wear like occasionally. But like for maybe a week straight, I've been like looking at them in a cart and like not buying them and I like I have so many games like on the switch like I have wish listed so many games. I'm like add to my wish list like that looks interesting. I might play that sometime. I did the same thing on PS4. I think that like, I don't know. I had my desire is to consume and I'm working on not doing it and like actually carts on the internet and save for later like on Amazon

make it really easy. Like I had stuff that I was sure I was going to buy on Amazon. I put it in my safer labor, stay for later, and it sat there. And I just like I was like cleansed of it eventually. You already already owned it kind of. Yeah. And then I was cleansed of the need for it. And it's like really, and I don't know if this is like that Amazon is going to hear this just like Apple heard our last night. They're going to be like, ooh, let's we need to remove that for you. This is kind of people do not purchase. But like, yeah, I think I'm gonna say my favorite thing on the internet for this week at least is like, carts and saving things for later

and not actually doing purchases, which is a weird one. No, I found an old Amazon wish list from like three years ago when I was cleaning out like my Amazon account and I was like, I didn't buy any of this stuff ever and I never thought about it again. And like, there was things in there that were like $300. And I was like, I didn't buy any of this stuff ever, and I never thought about it again. And there was things in there that were like $300. And I'm a very poor person.

There's so many things that I thought that I've bought, and I do. Oh my God, I bought double things, and I'm like, I didn't buy that. I just realized I had like doubles of the same book recently. And I'm like, oh yeah, because I bought that, I was like, I should, I wanted to buy this. And it's like, I did buy it.

Yeah. But it's interesting. I do think, I don't know, there's something. It's also something kind of funny to go back and look at that old stuff. I went back on one of my wish list in Amazon recently and I was like, I had all these watches saved and I was like, what was I thinking? I was not going to wear that watch. I see your phases.

I had big aspirations to redo my apartment in a certain way. Yes. Yeah. I looked at my old Pinterest stuff, and I'm like, that is not. It would not be a good chair to put in the house. What was why did I look at that chair? So anyhow, that's my thing. Taylor, thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me. You have to come back. One, maybe after you've published some teen, some team content, some more team content. And it'll read Taylor's stuff on the Atlantic.com and also follow her on Twitter for Avocado Toast updates. It's Taylor Lorenz, At Taylor Lorenz. Yeah, At Taylor Lorenz.

And thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me. We'll then as our show for this week. We'll be back next week with more tomorrow. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best, though I was just strolling through Central Park and your family was there, OK? They were there. you