Tomorrow - 192: Losing Their Edge

Episode Date: May 10, 2020

This week Josh and Ryan actually talk about technology! There's some VR, some keyboards, and a healthy dose of X Æ A-12. Happy Mother's Day and please, please remember to always wear a helmet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to Tomorrow. I'm your host, Josh Wattipolsky. Today on the podcast we discuss Elon's baby alternate realities and dual screens. I don't always one minute. Let's get right into it. Well we're back. We're back. Is that time again? Are you yawning? Are you literally just yawning? How dare you? Yeah, I'm sorry. Are you tired?

It's hard to get normal sleep. Man, I get it. Last night, I was so exhausted at 10 o'clock at night. I could not keep my eyes open. I finished real housewives. I turned to John and I was like, I'm out. He was like, what? Because I usually stay up till two or three in the morning.

I was like, I gotta go. I was like, this is it. He was like, okay. I went to bed and he stayed up. And I woke up at two or three in the morning. I was like, I gotta go. I was like, this is it. He was like, okay, I went to bed and he stayed up. And I woke up at four or five in the morning and was just like, now I'm up. I did the exact same thing last night. Well, I mean, we were still up a little bit later, but I was just like, you know what?

I'm going to bed. You know, like, I just was exhausted from life. You know how it is? It's just weird. like I just was exhausted from life. It's just weird. Like I don't, I know there's been multiple pieces are written about like time is different or the way we're perceiving it is very different now and like that's definitely true.

And like, you know, there's been multiple pieces that have been about like how our bodies are adapting to this in weird ways, but it doesn't make it less like, it feels still feels really personal. It still feels like a problem I'm having. You know what I mean? When it's like, you're all dealing with it.

Yeah, no, it's, yeah, I don't know when, I don't know when I'm supposed to get used to whatever this lifestyle is, but I'm definitely not used to it. I literally was just in the kitchen talking to Laura and she's like, yeah, it's Thursday. I'm like, it's Friday. Like, she completely did not know it was Friday, you know?

Well, I will say, you know, I was talking to John and he was concerned the other night because he was like, is it bad that I'm like loving this? Well, and I was like, it is, it's his old lifestyle had its own constraints and these are just different. And I think he's enjoying like being home and having more time and no social pressure, you know?

It's absolutely not, I don't think there's anything wrong with liking some parts of this. You know, I mean during this thing, I've spent more time with Laura and Zelda than I have in my, like probably the whole time that Zelda's been alive, you know? Because I'm not going, I'm not commuting,

I'm not like working late at the office. I mean, it's actually really nice to be able to have dinner with her every night. I feel like we've probably talked about this. But, you know, so there are things that are really, that are really great. I think that, but I think that the reality is, there are a lot of things that aren't really great.

And what you really miss is not even the thing itself, like, oh, I used to love going to the bar or whatever. It's like, yeah, sure, you like going to the bar. But I mean, like, just what you really miss is the feeling that you could go to the bar. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not even that necessarily that, like, I need to go out.

But the idea that, like, not even that necessarily that like, I need to go out, but the idea that like, or even just doing basic things like going to the store to buy groceries is now very stressful. I mean, for anybody who's done it under, you know, the current state of, you know, how we're handling social distancing and all that stuff, which is absolutely necessary, but it's still like going to the store

to get some groceries feels like, I mean, I literally had to go to the store this week and I came back in and I was like, I need a drink. Like it was so stressful. There's just so much weird, like maneuvering you're doing and you're wearing your mask and you're like, am I taking this off? Did I touch my face when I took the mask off

and all that weird shit? It's also just the like level of like hyper awareness that you have to have. It's just like these things aren't routine yet and so they feel like it just feels so exhausting. Yesterday, I, you know, my friend has a deal in place. Her job requires her to do like video podcasts. And so she was like, do you want to come on? Because I'm a few blocks from her. And I was like, sure. So I took my scooter in like full protective gear went into her empty office, which has been completely unoccupied since the started. She's on one end of the office like 30, 40 feet away. I'm on the other with like a microphone. And we're just talking like face to face and videotaping ourselves and like recording and it's so bizarre and it's such a weird thing to do and then and like like to sit down even like that 30 to 40 feet away from someone that you like are used to hugging and like laying on couch on the couch with and stuff and being like, hi, hi then like disinfecting everything putting on headphones we can hear each other talk talking and then disinfecting at all waving leaving headphones so we can hear each other talk, talking, and then disinfecting it all, waving, leaving on a scooter

to go three or four blocks back to my apartment, to then re- disinfect everything, take a shower. It's like, by the time it was done, I was like, oh, and John was like, oh, that was a lot, how was it? And I was like, it was the best, because it was in like a different room. It was the best thing I've done in so long, because I was not in my apartment,

but it's still so stressful and so, like these things that objectively, like wiping things down and like wearing a mask and being far from people sound really easy to do, but they're really like psychologically draining. Like it's really psychologically draining to have a mask on and talk to somebody else who's in a mask because you can't even see their facial expressions. So it's sort of like you have to do the work

that you would do on a phone call. It's hard and I don't know that we're like, we're not we're all able to do these things. We're just not prepared to have to do them all day every day without like an end. Right. Yeah, it's definitely um, end. Right. Yeah, it's definitely um yeah it's knowing that there is going to be an end to it is a big deal and knowing and feeling like there is no clear end that is visible in any way, shape or form. Um, definitely is like yeah, it's pretty tough, you know, it's tough because it's like everything in our lives has had an end date for the most part. Like even work, you know when your vacation's coming up or like school, you know, where summer ends and like you know how many years of school you're gonna have to do.

And like even for like, you know, regular life, you're like, well, the holidays come around once a year and regular life stops for a week. And like, it's weird to have this thing that, you know, we're all in and it's totally different. And we're like, I don't know when it's going to end. Like honestly, it's, it's, it's very similar. And there's no comparison to the, to the struggles. But it's very similar to going into prison for like a life sentence or not or like, you know what I mean? Like, you don't really know when you go into prison because there's all that like good behavior and probation and boards and capacity and like, so you're like,

okay, I'm about to go into this weird new reality. And I have no idea when or if it will end. And it's a psychological torture of its own kind. And you know, again, there are some silver linings and I'm like trying to look towards them, but it's just confusing and it makes stuff like planning even like what we're gonna eat for dinner weird. Like last night, John and I bought a bunch of like healthy stuff to make and we were trying to like negotiate the like puzzle pieces of

when ingredients would go bad and what we should do. And he was like, we should order food. And I said, why? Like, we'll save that we should do. And he was like, we should order food. And I said, why? Well, save that for the weekend. And he was like, what's the difference? He was like, I got good news at work today. Let's reward ourselves by ordering cauliflower tacos from the vegan place we like. And I was like, okay.

And I did. And I was like, yeah, I guess there are no special weekends. Like, weekends don't mean anything. So like, there's no special days to do stuff together. We could just do it whenever, but also then maybe not do it whenever it's just confusing. It's so confusing. Right.

We've been conditioned to live within certain like psychological parameters and now they're all meaningless. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely like, yeah. I mean, the whole every, I'll just the, just the flow of life as we know at the regular flow of life has changed.

And I think it's really, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it Fox with you. It, it, it, it, it makes you feel off-kilter in a way that's hard to articulate, I think, you know? Like, I don't know. It, it, things are normal, but they're not normal. Like, we're not in a situation, you know, I think we've talked about this, but apocalyptic scenarios are often, it's like so much, you imagine, so much would change that, you know, you can't, it's like nothing in life is the same.

And this is one of those weird situations where it's like, well, actually a lot of things in life are the same. And the only difference is like we have these weird, like, you know, new structures on how we can exist in the world. And it is like, in many ways exactly the same as it's always been and then completely different. And it makes you feel, you know, like you're displaced

in your regular life, which is very unusual, a very unusual feeling. Yeah, it's like biting into a sandwich and then all the ingredients are different from what you're like normally eat. And you're like, it's still a sandwich, but like, why don't we eat it? It's like, yeah, it's kind of like one of those things

where you take a sip and you think you're like getting water, but it's spright. Oh, yeah, oh, that's so weird. Yeah, and it's like, you're like, I don't dislike the thing I'm drinking, but it's the expectation of what you were going to get is so was so different. It's like, ah, what's happening? Yeah, you know, yeah, anyhow, anyhow, sorry. Let's talk about technology Yeah, let's talk about a sock tech. So many wrote to me. They're like you need to do a political podcast And I'm like well, I feel like these are definitely de facto political podcasts no matter how hard we try and I think

There's really nothing we can do to like remove There's really nothing we can do to remove. It's tough because as much as there is things that are tech stories that are tech focused, but it's really hard to divorce them from everything else going on. I mean, how do you report on a new product without reporting on social distancing and when it will end and how this affects the pandemic?

Like, you can't. It doesn't exist. Yeah. Like, I wish I could just talk about gaming, but you can't because guess what? There's an influx of new gamers and there are no more game stops. And it's just confusing and weird.

It just changes all the like, it changes the way you approach all of these stories, which is good. I mean, I think we're all learning something. But yeah. I mean, for example, if you want to talk about it, you wrote about virtual reality. This week and it, I mean, virtual reality, the state of virtual reality changed instantly. Like it was this thing that was simmering under and was kind of like cool and that people like me were like, it's going to work. It's going to work.

Like there's great developers making cool products. And Ray was a big fan of the question. And so it was like sort of there. But now if virtual reality can like fix just a few more things, it will literally be like the most important way to consume media that we have. Or it's the only way to leave your house. Or it certainly will become a important one.

Yeah, so I wrote this piece about virtual reality. I've actually, for a while, and I think I even talked about it on a previous podcast, I was like, I wrote this thing almost two years ago for the outline about how I felt like the, all of the stuff that I expected to see and wanted to see, and it was head-hoped I would see virtual reality, had kind of not come to pass.

And that we'd miss the moment or the moment had been missed somehow. And it just wasn't, it wasn't going to happen. And I was really, you know, disappointed. But I was like, there's no, nobody's come up with that, like, sort of cohesive hardware software thing that makes it accessible. And nobody's come up with that sort of like the killer app. But then, you know, like at the end of last year, maybe the, I guess at the end of, I guess around the holidays, I bought myself an Oculus Quest because I can't remember. It was like

Ray or somebody was maybe you were talking, but I can't remember who it was. But somebody was talking about like, other like it's so good. It's next level. You've got to try it. It'll change your whole opinion of this. And I'm like, all right, fine, fuck it. Like, it does seem kind of cool. They were doing like, they had just released Vader Immortal, they were doing like a Vader Immortal bundle, which is the Star Wars game, obviously. And so, and I got it and I have to say,

I was like pretty blown away by it. I mean, I was pretty impressed with the cohesiveness of it with, I thought the, some of the software, I mean, some of pretty impressed with the cohesiveness of it with I thought the some of the software I mean some of the games were really good Vater Immortal is like a kind of unbelievable Storytelling experience that I feel like you know when I started playing I'm like wow this is Really a transportation to to like this is like I literally feel like I'm in a Star Wars movie is how it felt You know and so and that was, you know, pretty amazing. And so, you know, I just felt like,

actually wait a second, maybe VR is having its moment, like maybe it's actually coming back from the brink of extinction. And so I've been thinking about writing this thing for a while, then I logged on to the internet as one does. And I saw, it's not much people tweeting about this, this story in the New York Times about VR. And the story in the New York Times was like literally like the story I wrote two years

ago is like, how come VR, you know, VR never, how come it hasn't hit or like what, you know, VR is like still a niche thing. Like, what's up with that? There's read by Kevin Rousse, who's a good writer, good reporter, he's done a lot of interesting stuff. And I started reading it sort of like being like, I'm sure I'm going to agree with a lot of this. And instantly he's kind of like, Oh, well, I couldn't get the PlayStation VR headset, which is super popular and has a ton of good titles for it.

And I couldn't get the Oculus Quest because they were all sold out and selling for hundreds of dollars higher than they should be on eBay, which is like, dude, use your Assembling New York Times newsroom for the corporate card, I mean, you can fucking afford to expense the headset, you know, he's like, so I didn't test those while I was like doing my critique of the current state of VR. And I was just like blown away by it. It just seems so crazy to me because the quest is, I think, largely considered now to be, you know, the absolute best solution, the most mainstream solution for VR, and a really good option for people who are just getting into VR who don't want huge gaming PC, who don't want to go through

all that stuff. Also, it has a feature where now where you can hook it up to a PC, you can do all of the things you would do normally like if you had a higher end headset. Anyhow, so the point is, it struck me as kind of insane that he wrote this article with this premise that was just, I mean, he basically didn't even experience the best of what VR had to offer. And so I was like, all right, that's it. I got to write my thing.

And so it was a little bit of a rebuttal to what he wrote, but it was really more about how I think VR at this moment, partially because of coronavirus, partially because the technology and the software and the platform has gotten somewhere, I think much, much better. And obviously, and I think partially just because, you know, it is, the pressure has changed from like,

is this gonna have this big moment too? Like, okay, now all of these things that have been coming together for a while are starting to be synthesized, and it's feeling like there's an organic growth to it. There's like a word of mouth growth, like the reason I bought it wasn't because I read some reviews somewhere.

It was like, people around me were talking about how great it was, and I was like, I gotta try it. So I think that, you know, and the story, you know, I ended up being, you know, how I feel like VR is about to have it's like iPhone moment where what I mean by that is not that it's going to suddenly be, you know, that, that, I mean, an iPhone moment can be taken a lot of ways. What I really mean is there was a moment where there were smartphones and they did all

the stuff that the iPhone did, but they just did it kind of worse, and they did it in a way that was less elegant and less approachable for most consumers. And so like some people had blackberry, some people had palms, some people had windows mobile devices, but it hadn't really caught on in a way. It hadn't really become part of like

the kind of general publics, they hadn't seen it and thought about it in a way that was like, oh, maybe I'll do that, maybe I'll try that, maybe I need one of those. And the iPhone changed that. And I think that's where we're at with VR potentially. I think that Facebook, you know, since they own Oculus, as much as I hate to admit this, you know, I think like, Facebook should find a way to harness this moment in a big way.

There's a rumor that they're working on a smaller version of the Oculus Quest, which I think is a huge, anything you can do to downsize that stuff. It's a big deal, but I think that there's a moment here where people are going to start to look at that and say, hey, this is actually pretty interesting. We should take a look at this and we should we should maybe check it out. And, you know, I'm excited. I'm excited about VR for the first time in a very long time. And I think that's a big deal. And I think if you haven't tried a quest yet,

and you haven't played something like Beat Saber or Vater Immortal, I've been playing this game Boneworks, which I think is really excellent. You know, you should try it. You should try it again, because it's a different, we're in a different moment. So I've been saying for a while that like PlayStation VR did a really smart thing by understanding that they were spending money on something

that was probably just gonna break even. They have all these studios working in a pretty dedicated way towards solving VR issues like how do you make a platformer in VR? How do you make a, how do you make a platformer in VR? How do you make a, how do you tell a story? How do you do an RPG? And the results have been increasingly better and they've been figuring out how this works.

And so PlayStation VR, like it works really great. I don't think it's that bad. I think like, you know, a lot of the tech they're using is obviously older tech, like the move controllers are, you know, obviously not as good as the quest can do hand tracking and the quest controllers are obviously built for VR. So they're better. Right. And like having to point a camera at yourself is like not ideal. But this, that isn't the problem. They can always come out with new hardware. It's that they needed to figure out like how you make games in VR and and it's out with new hardware. It's that they needed to figure out like how you make games in VR

and it's a completely new format. It's like the jump from 2D to 3D and like all PlayStation and N64 games weren't very good because people didn't know how to make 3D games. It was a completely new way of doing an art form. So I think PlayStation did a really smart thing with that and Facebook did a really smart thing with that. And Facebook did a really smart thing with rolling out these headsets,

but not, obviously they wanted to sell them, but they weren't marketing them to the mainstream consumer. They were marketing them to nerds while they figured out what could be a mainstream product. And I think that was a smart play because they understood that they had faith that VR was gonna be worth it. And that if they got

there eventually, it would be like ready to go. And I think now we're at a point where, you know, the iPhone moment didn't happen because like they solved all those problems in a day, they happened because it was like the it crossed over because all that tech had been being worked on for a long time. And what they did was bring them all bring it all together in a unified, understandable, approachable way and throw a lot of really mainstream marketing behind it. And I think we're getting to a point where a company can pull all these pieces together and create one product that's like simple to understand easy to use and the end result like

the software is very polished. And it can have huge flaws, like the iPhone had huge flaws, but it needs to nail the one thing it's telling you it's gonna do. And like the iPhone did that with multi-touch, like it nailed, it felt like you were touching real objects, there was no lag and it did web browsing, like for real. And I think like if the touchscreen and the web browser works,

you've got in there a great product. The iPod ecosystem was built and ready to go. The app ecosystem was, they waited a year to implement it, but it was basically built and ready to go. They just needed people to understand how multi-touch work, but mobile apps were being built at the time for things like the trio and the Blackberry. And like I think right now, the software is getting to a point where it's ready for mainstream consumers to jump in and have like a Super Mario Brothers moment.

And I think, you know, it can have its iPhone moment. It can have its NES moment. It's just a matter of like when, but this, I think it's, it's ready to go for regular people. It now is just a matter of like explaining to people to give this a try again, which, which is what Nintendo is famously like their biggest innovation was being like the Nintendo, the biggest thing that Nintendo ever created, the most important thing they ever created was not Mario.

It was the Nintendo seal of quality, because consumers knew they could trust the product again after video games had been such crap for a decade. Yeah, well, I think also, you know, it's right place, right time. I mean, I, I, in Nintendo, that was true as well. I think it was also a refinement of, you know, hey, there was this previous generation. Now we've refined it to something much more interesting and much better. I think the VR thing is helped greatly by the moment that we're all in. I think it's like frankly just to be sort of real about it, the fact that people are all alone at home, that you're alone and you're kind of like it's a weird thing to do. Like you don't put it on a VR headset in a group. But if you're sitting alone and you're kind of like, it's a weird thing to do, like you don't put it on a VR headset in a group.

But if you're sitting alone and you're kind of like, yeah, like I'm bored and I wanna try something new, it's like, you know, this is the moment to like just give it a whirl. And so, you know, I think that a lot more people are just gonna kind of like give it a whirl because there's something that's cohesive. It's like a simple package that comes like all in one.

And you know, there's sitting at home board looking for something to do. You know, waiting for some new experience. Yeah. It's kind of the opposite of the Nendo Wii in that way because the Wii was at its best when like grandma was bowling with you and the whole family was laughing and like giving it a go. The VR is best when you have like a couple bowling with you and the whole family was laughing and like giving it a go. The VR is best when you have like a couple days that you know you're not going to be doing anything and you can just like put a thing on and pick up a lightsaber, you know.

Yeah, I mean, it's, it is a very, I mean I've played it with Laura in the room. It's still like, I feel like she's kind of laughing at me, you know, because you look like a maniac when you're in VR. I mean, that is an issue that's always going to be an issue to some extent, is that like you basically need to be in a place where you're not going to run into somebody or something and you kind of don't feel like people are watching you flail around wildly in a virtual world.

I do think, you know, it's still going to, there's still a curve. This is not going to be like, it's not going to be iPhone level mainstream, in my opinion, until maybe not ever, because it's just a very different experience. But I think it can get to like a serious gamer mainstream. You know, I think it could get to like like PS4 level. That's what I mean. I think it's going to be like a video game mainstream where like, like PS4 level, that's what I mean. I think it's gonna be like a video game mainstream

where like, it's wildly popular, wildly successful. I don't know that my aunt is gonna care. Yeah, it's not for, it's not gonna be like, I mean, I think the danger of saying the iPhone moment for VR is people are like, oh, you mean it's gonna be like this all-encompassing new technology that everybody's using? It's like, no, it means like there's going to be a breakthrough moment for it where

a much larger portion of the possible consumer base for it starts adopting it. And I think that, and I think that you're not going to have the market penetration of like an iPhone or smartphones in general. I think you're going to have, but I do think you look at how many Xbox ones and how many PS4s have been sold. And those are serious game systems for people who are very invested in gaming. I mean, there's a big segment of that of that population that I think could potentially adopt this.

I would also say, if you look at, if you look at like Twitch, for instance, you know, it was not that normal to watch people streaming games, not that long ago. Like not that long ago, it was unheard of for the most part for someone to like just watch you play a game online. Like that's not was not a thing. It's become a thing as much more mainstream now. Not everybody does it. I mean, if you compare the amount of people watching Twitch streams to the amount of people watching Netflix streams or YouTube streams, let's put it that way. Let's put it to say YouTube videos versus Twitch streams. I think you're going to see a huge difference. But there's a big segment of the population that's interested in doing that. And so I think you can see like a

pretty large group that isn't everybody isn't super duper mainstream isn't like, you know, your aunt for instance or whatever. But a lot of people and I think that's the moment that we're starting to get into now with VR. I mean, obviously time will tell, the technology will tell the story, the software is going to tell that story, but I feel more bullish on it now than I have in a very long time. And I think that it's going to become increasingly less of an outlier, weird expert user area and become much more of a average or slightly above average in terms of sophistication and adoption. But a lot more users are going to start to go like, yeah, I think I could check this out. Like I'm interested in it. And like there's actually an experience worth having now.

Yeah, I think, yeah, I think we should move on. Yeah, yeah, let's move on. So a bunch of other stuff has happened this week. Apple released a new MacBook. Did that happen this week? It's hard to tell. Was it Tuesday or Monday? I'm just gonna, I have to literally Google it because I'm, Apple released this Monday. It was Monday.

God, it's nuts. It feels so long ago. It feels so long ago. Apple released a new MacBook, upgraded 13 inch Pro with 32 gigs of RAM. They have done away with the shitty keyboard that everybody hated that was breaking. So now I'm just like stuck. I don't even, I'm barely even used my Mac at this point because it just feels so slow and annoying. My Mac is

been getting and my Mac's from 2018, I think it has been getting like hot, hot, like, like make a pop tart hot Just from regular use. Yeah, and so I bought a dust kit like I bought screwdriver's that match the MacBook I bought Compressed air and I was like let's let's clean it baby, and I went in there and it was Spot it's just this is the heat. This is the level of heat my MacBook operates that I guess I could like I don't know if you can change the thermal Have you updated? I mean have you updated to the latest are you updated to the latest OS? Yep, it sucks It's horrible. It's which by the way

I feel like all I do is update software and it never gets better. It's no the update is It's like killed performance on these machines for I don't know what reason But I didn't want to get into it. But the point is they released a new MacBook, whatever. Microsoft released a bunch of new surface stuff. They are finally having like a release date for their earbuds. They release a new Surface book. They release a new Surface Go. You know, it's all Surface stuff. It's all Surface content. Surface products. Yeah. Like, you know, it's nice. It's fine. Ray wrote a really good smart piece, I think, about how like,

you know, the sort of, the birth of the surface was like Microsoft trying some really weird, daring product design that kind of nobody else was thinking about or doing it at the time. And like, I have to say, I mean, I did not like the first surface. I remember reviewing it going like this kickstand is like, makes no sense and it I mean, I did not like the first surface. I remember reviewing and going like this kickstand is like makes no sense. And it works badly.

And this is not it. Over time, they have like refined it to a point where I think it's actually a really great product, the Surface Pro. The Surface book is obviously, you know, a solid, you know, sort of tear up from there. They have a, now a whole slew of laptops that are good and solid. Like they've done a good job with it, but they kind of stopped doing the really daring stuff,

which is sort of the point of Reis piece, where it's like, they went, they kind of zigged where everybody else was sagging and it paid off, and now it's like they're just continuing to zig, and it's time for them to do something. I feel like, in a way, and I hate to draw these parallels, but Apple has been, the iPad is such a radical break from their computers.

You know, obviously, originally much just, very much like a large iPhone. They've been trying to pull it towards being a computer as well. And I don't know, it feels like a real half-ass attempt. I think what Microsoft got right was they were like, this is a computer. And they kind of screwed it up at first. They were like, we've got this art, you know, whatever the, the, the, the, the, the arm version of it was, which it was the same thing they did with the Surface Pro X, which kind of doesn't really work in the ecosystem. But they eventually got it. They're like, this is a computer. It also has a touch

screen and can be used as a tablet and has a really good pen. You can do like stuff that you want to do on a full like PC, like 3D stuff and Photoshop stuff and whatever, and we've got like the perfect, piece of hardware for that. I actually think they really pulled that off in a way that nobody else has. I think now it's like, they need to go somewhere else with these, like, there's still stuff

that they're doing like the bezels on the screen, like the port situation, like the industrial design, like I feel like there are places where they can, they can actually like be more daring and they're not doing it. I feel like they're like, hey, very much like Microsoft, you know,

it's like people on Windows 95, they're like, hey, we don't want to mess with Windows 95 too much. It's pretty good and a lot of people use it. And I think it's like a danger zone for them to get too comfortable because where Microsoft seems to be really effective lately is in being pretty weird and daring. And so I hope they continue that. I hope they build on that because they're kind of not doing it right now. Yeah.

I think Microsoft has always felt confused to me. Like the Xbox one being a media device with like the connect and all of that. Maybe that wasn't what people wanted at the time, but. And yeah, like backing off of that ended up kind of working for them. But what they really needed to do is not necessarily back off of their ideas, but to make gamers feel like they're at the center of the experience still. And I think it's the same problem that they've had with like the Zoom. It's the same problem that they had with like, like, well, the Zoom had a lot of problems.

Yeah, but it's the same problem they had with Windows. It's the same problem they have. They always come up with something that's a really big new idea. And yeah, it upsets people, but they feel, they get more nervous about people being upset than other companies. And I think Apple like makes decisions that are really stupid sometimes. But 99% of the time their decisions are like pretty good, but not perfect for everybody. But they have a lot of confidence in them.

And I think Microsoft just doesn't always feel confident to me. They innovate and then they don't feel confident in those ideas. And well, you know, I'm worried that there's duo products that I really think look good by keep getting delayed and they're basically vaporware at this point. They could be cool, but it's like the courier. It just have confidence that the courier could have been a thing. It could have been the iPad. Why didn't you just do it?

Like, I don't understand why they're always like, well, that's a little too scary. It's like, well, they'd have an enterprise division and have a consumer division. It's up worrying about that, like, oh, then have an enterprise division and have a consumer division. And stop worrying about that like, that like, oh, this isn't gonna work for night like this segment of people. It's like, yeah, maybe it doesn't work for this segment of people.

But like, you already have a product that does. Just keep selling that other product. I don't know. It just, they're a whole thing to me. It always feels a little scared. Like, they create the edge browser with all these cool new features. And then they're like, well, you know,

we're just gonna wipe it all and do chromium. And it's like, okay, yeah, a lot of people use chromium browsers, but like all of those new ideas and features, like maybe they weren't perfect for everyone, but keep them around because they're gonna be the right choice in the way that like mixed reality, like Microsoft, like magically dropped out of the market because they were like, this is never gonna work.

They are idea didn't work. Okay, well that sucks, that happens sometimes. But like mixed reality and the ARVR stuff, they should be like pushing that further. They could have had a quest situation, you know what I mean? They always end up seem to only worry about enterprise and government products. It's definitely interesting like that, you know, the connect, like now some version of the connect is probably

like a really good idea. Like probably would have done, it's in everything, it's in all of our phones. Yeah. I mean, like it is the kind of thing that probably would be effective right now if you had like a really good like solution where you could like talk to somebody on your TV like Katie my my sister-in-law has like forced me to put a portal on the top of my television because she loves portals and I find it you know, I mean I literally I have to unplug it because I just do not I'm not comfortable with the idea at all of like Facebook being in my living room.

But it's like, but it's like, it's actually a pretty good idea to be able to have this like full screen thing. It just is executed by the wrong people. And if Microsoft had done it right, I feel like it definitely could have been a thing that they could excel at, you know? And so it's like, it definitely could have been a thing that they could excel at, you know? And so it's like, yeah, it's like,

it's like the connect was super popular with tons of like hackers and people trying to come up with stuff and they rolled it out as a mainstream product when they probably should have done what I was talking about with VR, which was like marketed to super geeks, marketed to hardcore people to play around with, see where they get, refine those ideas,

and let it have like a lifespan, where instead of creating this one product, and because the first or second versions didn't like massively blow it out with critical reviews and like user satisfaction, maybe like not every product needs to like be that. Like maybe the surface doesn't need to be the most mainstream computer,

it can be the most mainstream computer. It can be the most cutting edge with the coolest ideas until the market catches up with your ideas. And like the connect, it's weird that they still don't produce them because tons of people still use them for weird little projects and one-off like things. Like it is still a pretty insane technology that they developed. Like it's wild. I read I read a really fascinating thing about the development of the connect, which was just like it was so difficult to accomplish. And it required so much of the company to port everything that they had into it. And then to just sort of abandon it, I mean, it's the same thing with the surface. They poured so much into like

this crazy, cool new design that had all these ambitious ideas and really like grab some attention. Now they want to make it into essentially like an enterprise product and it's just weird to me. I don't know. I don't like it. Yeah, look, I mean, I'm not saying that they've backed completely away from being daring. I just think that it's good to keep a little bit of that spark of weirdness. And yes, the duo stuff is like, maybe that's the weird, I don't find those things very compelling to be perfectly honest. Like, they don't really do it much for me.

I think the whole dual screen device concept is, you know, fairly without merit at this point. Do you know, like, I'm not convinced that dual screens are a thing, like a thing that we need. I think it can be a thing. I just don't think anybody has cracked what it's for. Like the DS worked great. There was a wonderful, I mean, it was great to have menus on that second screen was awesome, but nobody's turned, like the software isn't really there.

Like when you hack Android or Windows to just throw some stuff on the second screen, you're not like really using it. It's like the we use problem was like, nobody really used the second screen. It was just kind of there. But when you really used it, you got stuff like zombie you.

Yeah, exactly. And I think that that is, I mean, but that's a different, that's a whole different thing. That's a, that's a like disconnected screen from the, that's a whole different thing. That's a disconnected screen from the, that's like a second screen experience that's incorporated into a game, which is brilliant. Like, I think there are ways to do that that have proven to work, but they're very specific.

You know, I mean, they're very specific. It's not like in everyday use case. The idea that we want our phones to become a tablet or whatever is still kind of unfounded. you know, I mean, there are, it's like, there are going to be things that are used situationally that don't change. I think that we don't have to keep thinking about like, how can we, what if we add more screens to this thing? Like, I don't think that's the right question. The question, you shouldn't start with what if it had a second screen? The question you should start with is

what would be awesome to do with a second screen? Because all of these devices, and we've seen a bunch of them, you'll like, oh, hey, we added a screen, so now you can show more content in your doc, or like, hey, what if one of the screens was a keyboard and the other screen was the content? And it's like, yeah, I guess, but like, no, like that doesn't work that well. So the question really has to be like the DS is a great example. I think that fucking thing was purpose built with the idea that they wanted to do things with games that they felt couldn't be accomplished with like a single screen system.

You know, and I think that's important. Like, what can't be accomplished that you can do with that thing? First, tell me that, then make the thing. Don't go the other way around, which is like, we made it. So now let's put something on it because I think that's always a fucking mistake. And so like, I'm curious to see what they do. If you look, if you go and look at the, you know, career video, right, which is like kind of what these like duo devices are, you know, kind of echoing, it wasn't like, hey, there's a second screen over here, it was like, what if like this device acted like a book that was fully interactive and you could do crazy things like just like easily cut, you know, a piece of content from one side and save

it to like a scrapbook on the other side, which is like, you know, to some extent, I'd like to see that software happen before they come up with the dual screen. They're like, oh, it's based on Android or whatever. And it's like, it's like, who the fucking cares? What's the reason you're doing it? If it's going to look like this book concept, show me why the book concept is better than an iPad, or a surface, as it stands now. I don't think they've demonstrated that. Not one fucking thing have they demonstrated in software that you can do better with a dual screen device. I haven't seen anything that you can do better

with a dual screen device, at least in terms of like a smartphone or a tablet that you couldn't do on a phone or a regular tablet or whatever that would work just as well, if not better. And same goes for, you know, like, or on a laptop with a track pad and a keyboard. You know, it's like, the whole thing with apples, like they're slowly admitting that the iPad

is actually better when you use it somewhat like a computer. And it's like, yeah, it's not surprising because like a big iPhone isn't that great. So, you know, look, not everybody is a visual artist. The pen is great for some things, but not for others. And I think that it's just interesting to see the evolution of these things, but it really is a question of like, what is, what's the use case for this form factor?

How do you prove it out? How do you, how do you get people? If you've got a new idea, how do you get people to actually do it and show that it works? I think like the dual screen thing is, it's just such a total question mark and has been such a failure up until now. I have, I'm highly skeptical until I see the killer use case

which at this point does not exist. Yeah, you're right. There needs to be a use for, as a reason to make a product then rather than just make the product and then come up with uses word. I think that's spot on, totally true. I think, you know, the perfect example of that is. Is when they made those keyboards that each key was a screen and I was like, why the fuck were doing that and then someone made like a Photoshop keyboard out of it. And I was like, oh, because there's so many fucking Photoshop buttons that you wish were just right there and you end up hunting around for them. That would be great. And that's like a perfect example.

And it's not for everybody. Not everybody needs that. But the people who needed it could be really great. And maybe it will cross through. But this idea of like the duo, it's like, it's two screens. Everyone will want it. And it's like, wait, why? Like, what is it going to do for them?

And I think, you know, yeah, that's interesting. I think you just diagnosed the problem. No, I mean, I'm just it's like, have a have a thing that you definitely want to do with it. You think is awesome. And then it'll become really easy for to convince people that they should have that product and the tool screens are warranted. Well, speaking of products, let's talk about Elon Musk's newest product, his baby. Oh, God. I do have to talk about that. Okay, fine. We can talk about I don't I have nothing to say about this except that You know, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna

I'm not gonna neg people on their name choices. I think yeah, I don't want to dunk on anybody's elven spelling Yeah, it's like I the kids name is like unpronounceable It and it's really dumb. I'm sorry. It's not it's just a dumb, it's like an equation or it's like some combination of like stuff that he and Grimes like, like a plane. And it's like, yeah, I don't really like somebody's name choice. It's another thing to make up a name. And it's a third thing to make a name that's actively difficult. Like that's me makes it purposefully difficult. Yeah, I just think it's like, I get it, you wanna be different. I totally understand. There's lots of ways to express your differences in the world.

I mean, whatever with the baby name, the other thing that's really funny is that, like there's been all these weird moments on Twitter with Elon and Grimes where she's like, oh, you know, in an interview, you talk about how she doesn't wanna like gender the baby and wants to let it decide you know, decide for itself or whatever. And then Elon Musk is like, it's a boy, like, to people

and see it's like, okay, maybe you should talk to Grimes about how she feels about the whole gender issue and you know, work something now. He also like corrected her because she like you said the wrong name of the plane that they're both it really into, which is like, did he just pick the name and you're like, okay, sure. It's just like the whole thing is a mess and lame.

But then it's like, this follows Elon's week of crazy tweeting about how he's selling his house and his stock manipulation tweets, talking about how this Tesla stock price is too high. And like, dude, just completely fully off the rails. I'm to be part of the honesty, I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted from the by Elon's. He's overexposed. He's overexposed. He's Britney Spears in 2007. It's enough from Elon. Honestly, it's like, it's like, he's reopening his factories despite city, county, and

state, and national warnings. He's going gonna just open them anyway and pay the fines and hope all his employees don't die. Like, why not? Why not? Why not? No, it's just, it is like, it's like, you know, I'm just like, okay, I get it. You know, I'm on Twitter probably more than I should be.

And, you know, I should take my own advice. It's like, maybe just don't, you don't have to tweet about it. I mean, you're,'re he's so rich and There's so many things that he needs to be doing. I mean, I got to tell you You know, I love communicating with people on Twitter But if I were if tomorrow it was like They were like Josh your a billionaire now And you have a electric car company. I'd be like yeah, I'm good on Twitter. I'm good with I don't need to go on Twitter

I don't need to go on Twitter ever again like Tim Cook is not on fucking Twitter Tim Cook has these like prepared statements that are created by like a marketing team in Apple It's like, you know, thank you to the first responders. It's like, you know very basic like Won't offend anybody tweets, you know like that's what Elon needs a person who does that for him and then just do other stuff. Like, what is there to gain on Twitter for you except like people telling you you're right and smart and cool, it's like, I don't get it. I don't.

It's like, if I had a billion dollars, I would not need any such validation. I'd be like, I know I'm cool. I have billions of dollars. I'm all set. But with all things, it's like, how is this serving you or somebody else? And I don't, like, I don't think the world is getting a net good from Elon's fucking tweets. I don't think Elon's anything good from them. Well, and his job doesn't involve him pontificating about like, you know, whether or not he

should own homes and what the state of ownership it. Like you're a billionaire. Yeah, I mean, just move into the four seasons. What is that teacher? Like, look, we all like to hear, we all like to hear about, you know, smart people, we all like to hear smart people talking

about things that are interesting. I get it, you know, and when Elon Musk is talking about things that he knows about, and I think it's really interesting. Just lately, he's not doing any of that. He's just like raging on Twitter, and it's just, I mean, I get it. Hey, it's a ship, I'm just exhausted. I'm just like, who cares? Honestly, you know, it's just like, it is like, it is such a great. He's literally arguing about COVID while his girlfriend is in labor with his I mean, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like,

I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like,

I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like,

I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I'm just like, I just needs to, he just needs to take a break and get back to building cars. I just like, also, I don't know. I wrote a thing about it. You know, I do think that greed is driving a lot of his tweets. I think he's just trying to bend, you know, reality. Like you said, he's opening the factory. It's like the ultimate goal is not, he's not talking about how Americans need their freedom

back. That's not what he really doesn't care about that shit. Um, he cares about that shit. He cares about he cares about cars. You're getting cars and getting the stock price going and you know it's you know building you know cars in China and you know being a successful you know business person and that's really all he cares about and I don't know why we're trying to humor him like you know sometimes he's like I want to be the hero. Most of the time he's just like trying to make money. And- But even when he wants to be the hero, there are different motives for wanting to help people.

And sometimes I sometimes every time he wants to quote unquote, help, it is he ends up building some purpose built thing with his name on it that gets him a lot of attention. Be it a submarine, be it a tunnel, be it a flamethrower, he puts his name on it that gets him a lot of attention. Be it a submarine, be it a tunnel, be it a flame thrower, he puts his name on some attention grabbing object and then tries to sell it or use it to boost his stock price. And like at a certain point, like that's not being a hero that's making things about you, which is very different. And you know, there are there are major influential people that if it weren't for us looking for the stories about it, they're good works wouldn't get as much attention. Like Apple

donating a very clever amount of money and offering to do a ton of of the actual labor themselves to help create testing kits in California as a test case for pumping a ton of money and a ton of their expertise into creating testing kits for COVID nationwide is a really smart move. And Tim Cook is taking his natural ability to source materials and create products at a really cheap price.

That's what he does at Apple really great. He has huge margins on all their products now. He's like an assembly line genius to use that and the entire company's infrastructure and apply it to a public good within amount of money that you won't even notice. It's a rounding error, but we'll literally save millions of lives and could boost the entire

American economy. Not only is it good for his company that he does that, it also is the right way to do it. And it makes you like a better good person. And it doesn't make it about the Tim Cook show. Elon's whole thing, like when those kids were trapped in a cave, he was like, I'm gonna build a submarine and call the guy who's actually helping a pedophile.

And like, what is, who, who, who, who did that really help? And yet his supporters jump in and point to that, like, look, he's a good person. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's some watch. I don't shit. I don't know. I don't know what it is. I think it's like, I mean, definitely the,

I mean, you know, like here's the thing. It's like, you know what's better than saying it on Twitter is doing it. If you're gonna help the kids in the cave, like just do it. Like, you know what's uncool is to talk about the shit that you do. Like, just do it.

Just fucking make the thing. Help the kids do whatever it is that you're supposed to do this can be better. And then you can talk about it. But like the whole thing of like trying to be like the hero on Twitter and then having to like figure out how to live up to your promises that you made is just like it just looks, it's just a bad look just

for anybody. Let me hear. I'll give you a whole bunch of ventilators and they're like, okay, where are you going to get them? And he's like, oh, that's actually a really hard thing to do. So I'm going to see Pat machines. Yeah. Did it check box.

I'm the hero. It's like, don't do that. Just do it. And then if someone asks you about it, be happy to talk about it and explain how it was done. Like nobody's going to keep you from your reward for your good deed. But you have to do the good deed first. He just seems to me very unwell. He seems someone who's lost and confused and doesn't have a core identity outside of his money. Well, anyway, I can't talk about any more bad things. Let's talk about some nice things.

Oh, I have to go to this doctor's appointment that I have in 15 minutes. It's not a nice thing. I'll say say, I have a nice thing, though. It's like a short, for now, short live. We had an amazing weekend last weekend in here in New York. It was like really warm. It was like almost summer temperatures on Sunday,

and it just gave me a brief moment of like, oh wow, like there could be a time in the near future when I can go outside all the time. And it was very exciting and things are starting to get green everywhere and like there's flowers. And I do, I'm very excited about the summer not only because I think hopefully it will, you know, there may be some, it may help with some of the COVID stuff,

but like people will be able to go outside, even if they can't be near each other. I know they're already sort of doing this, which is, you know, can be a danger, but I think everybody needs to get the fuck out of their houses. And so we had like a couple of days of like, here's what it may be like. Now, apparently there's a polar vortex

that's incoming to the East Coast, that's gonna like, have a, there's gonna be like a fucking snow storm or something, which is insane since it's May 8th. But I will take those two days and I look forward to more of those days. And so my nice thing is like, it's going to be warm soon,

which is like very, very needed. And I'm excited about it. My nice thing is I got a East scooter for my husband, got the Segway Ninebot Max. He, whenever we travel to cities that have those bird or lime scooters, he loves them. And he, he'll spend whole nights where I'm like, you know, I'm really jet lagged.

I would love to just read my book and go to sleep early tonight. And then tomorrow we can get up early and do whatever we want to do while traveling. And instead of getting sleep, he will go on the e-scooter for four or five hours and just explore cities. He like loves doing it. He like loves the wind in his hair. He loves seeing all the like people in weird locations. He loves stopping and taking pictures of things. So I knew that he was

really cooped up and I knew he was a little depressed because we have a lot of family stuff going on and the logistics of this have been very crushing. You know, he's he's not hating the time and quarantine, if anything, he's enjoying it. But it is stifling and when the bad moods and the frustrations come, they've been coming because of the same few reasons. And so I was like, what can I do to solve this for him? So I ordered him an eScooter and I gave it to him and it's not the scooter itself, but that's the nice thing because like whether or not that fits in your lifestyle is extremely,

that's an extremely specific lifestyle you have. You have to like live in a city without a car and be the kind of person that enjoys that kind of thing. But it is a very nice unit and Segway did a beautiful job. It's a gorgeous scooter. But the nice thing is that he's been using it like every weekend and I barely really got to use it, but he loves it. And he seems so happy and so appreciative. And I really like see him

loving it. And so I guess my nice thing is like thinking about what someone really needs and getting them a gift is such a good feeling. And it really, he was like, now I have to get you a gift. And I was like, you really don't. Like, I'm so happy to see you happy. And it's that, I guess it's something that we talk about around the holidays and then we don't really talk about it the rest of the year. But giving people gifts and taking the time

to think of something they wouldn't get themselves or whatever, it's so satisfying. To like, I know it sounds selfish, but it feels so good to see him happy because of something I did. And I like love it. And it's made me stop and think like, what could I get my mom for Mother's Day

that would be a really good gift and not just like flowers in a card, but something that would be really thoughtful. Or I was like, you know, my dad hates gifts. He doesn't really need things. He just, he resents them that he resents something expensive, sitting in his house.

So I was like, what's an experience we could do at a distance that would like make him happy for father's day. And I was trying to come up with stuff and I came up with what I think is a pretty good plan. And I'll talk about it on the show when we do it. Get it. Anyway, get him a class. Anyway, yeah. Anyway, at the end of the day, I think it feels really good to like do things for other people, even if it's like a consumerist purchase, if it feels good to think about other people and get out of yourself a little bit.

So I would encourage people to go do that. That's it. That's great. Alright, let's get out of here. Bye. and Well, that is our show for this week. We'll be back next week, probably, with more tomorrow. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best, especially on this Mother's Day weekend. And I hope the entire family receives a Mother's Day gift, whether or not they're a mother. you