Tomorrow - 212: Contactless

Episode Date: October 26, 2020

We're in the final stretch of the 2020 election folks — and Josh and Ryan are feeling it. Please, god, let this just end. In other news, Google is finally having antitrust action taken against it, the influencers have lost touch with reality, and Ryan is trying to solve a murder. Please vote. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to Tomorrow, I'm your host Josh Wattipolsky. Today on the podcast, we discuss woodworking, airline tickets, and the Norwegian CIA. I don't want to waste one minute. Let's get right into it. All right, Ryan, we're back. We're better than ever. We're almost as good as we've ever been, but we're the best there ever was. And I think that's the important thing to think about right now. We are riding high, we're flying low, we're coasting, but we're also full speed ahead. And that to me is how you win. That's just how

you win. What are we winning? But aren't we winning? You know what I'm saying? The president's password was Maga 2020. Well listen, we're hearing reports that the president had a non-hid a Twitter account without two-factor and the password of Maga 2020, which you know is, his old password was your fired all one word very good well both of these things are like these I mean I would say if you had to rank if you had to force rank the most guessable Trump passwords I think those two would probably be after like password would probably be at the top of the list. You know. It was the third guess by Dutch researchers.

Well, there you have it. There you have it. I'm currently looking for a therapist online, as one does. What's the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist? Psychiatrists can give out meds. And what do psychologists do they just talk? They find what the problem is. What about a therapist-lash counselor? That's like a long-term person to work out emotional problems that don't rise to the clinical diagnosis level.

So if you're like, you know, you just need like kind of a general like, I got, I'm stressed out about this thing and I want to talk to somebody about it. What do you do? You want talk therapy or a counselor? I go- So is that a psychologist? Um, no, that's someone who could diagnose a specific problem. That's a therapist. A therapist or a counselor? That's what you're doing.

Therapist slash counselor is the... I honestly have had better success with counselors because they actually engage with what you're saying. Therapists are always playing like some... Not no offense therapists, but they're always playing some like a light game where they're trying to get you to say something through strategy. And I can always like feel that it's happening, like I had one who's whole thing was to be as quiet as possible and let me fill the silence.

And like, I don't need any, I don't need any help doing that. And also I like need feedback. Like, I'm not here to learn how to talk about my feelings. I'm very good at that. I am here to bounce things off of somebody and be told whether or not I'm making sense. Right. Well, at any rate, we're gonna edit this out, but maybe.

Or maybe we won't, but anyhow. No, we are in Trump's, the end of Trump's America. Wow, Trump's America. Here we are. Here we are. Here's useful information for people. I mean, here's an interesting question. Now that everything is like,

another thing is gonna be remote. I mean, I'm an interesting question. Now that everything is like, another everything is going to be remote. I mean, I'm not going to go see a therapist in person because that would be absurd. I now have to figure out, like, should I even look for somebody near me if I want to talk to somebody or should I just look for somebody, like, I'm like, oh, well, man, ha, and I'm going to look at man, ha, and because that's the hot, that's where all the hot therapists are, right? A lot of people have mental illness in Manhattan. You're not a shit. Yeah, anyhow, but like, does it matter? I don't know.

I don't know anymore. I really don't. I want like, I frankly will not be satisfied unless my therapist is like a Mandy Patinkin type of character. In fact, if Mandy Patinkin could do my therapy, I think that would be my preference. My psychiatrist is a very old French man. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for.

He speaks at like, sub slow podcast. You know when you slow down a podcast like half speed, it's sub that in a thick French accent and he often hits your repeat himself. And it's great because he does engage with me and he does speak back, but it forces me to really listen to what he's saying And I like that right right also. I also like feeling judged. I think that's helpful. Yeah

I Think that's what I'm looking for You know, it's like I don't want to like talk to and this is maybe this is me being shortsighted But like if I'm gonna go and do therapy Which I have not done in a very long time. I don't want to talk to somebody who's like my age, you know? I just feel like, what the fuck would I be able to? I mean, on the other hand, I think a therapist who's younger than you, no.

Well, no, I'm looking into the list of them right now. On the other hand, I do think, I mean, I feel like if I was able to, I mean, I feel like if somebody came to me and they were like, I'm having a problem, I think I could actually help them work out their issue. I mean, I'm actually very good at helping people with their problems and very bad at helping myself

with my own problems, you know what I'm saying? I mean, or maybe not. I mean, I hear you, I hear the incredulous tone that you're, you say the same thing. I'll say this. I'll say, every time in therapy, I say, I think I would be a very good therapist and they always tell me, you're,

I'm very emotional and very self-involved. So like, I don't know that I might be altruistic and I might try to help people, but at the end of the day, if I'm in a bad mood, I project that onto people and it's not a good quality. I think you're a very, I think you're a very caring person. You have a lot of empathy. You want to help. I do think that you're a little bit, I think you're, and don't take this the wrong way, but I feel like you're way too self-involved

to make a good therapist. I feel like, I feel like, you would very much read it to a lot of the probs that people bring to you. You'd be like, well, that reminds me of this thing that I'm dealing with, and then you'd be talking about yourself for 45 100 percent, you know, which is obviously, you know, I love talking to you

It's one of your great qualities that you can make anything about yourself But anyhow, let's talk. Let's get into the real stuff Okay, enough about my psychotherapy that I'm gonna be having. I should just what I should do is I just I should book like appointments with people Just a just a wide array of appointments and just check some people out and see how it's going. It's crazy because I'm just looking at people now on this list, I'm like, I could have an appointment like,

I get an appointment like today if I wanted to. I like this person. I like this person. I don't know. I like this person. It's an 8.15 AM appointment. I'm trying to imagine my 8.15 session I guess there's people to get up super duper early. I mean, I'm up at 8.15

But I definitely am not in a place where I'm ready to like discuss deep Like life stuff, you know what I mean? And do you blame your father for that? I mean, I don't really blame my father for much. I mean I my parents are you know wonderful I mean they're insane. I mean, of course, our parents are responsible for everything, really, when you think about it. And then on the other hand, they're not responsible for anything. So, you know, I don't know. I don't know. But I wouldn't want to do it. I would definitely want to do it at what time is it at 8, 15 in the morning? Definitely, we don't want to do it at, what time is it at 8.15 in the morning? Definitely, we don't want to do that. You know what I'm saying?

Anyhow. I think you should sit with that, but our time here today is over. Wow. Wow. Well, I'm getting it all. Maybe I don't need therapy. Maybe I just need this podcast to happen more frequently. I'm sure Tony would like that, you know.

You definitely shouldn't, you shouldn't book a therapist if you think they're cute, right? That should not be a criteria. Cause Zock Doc makes it very easy to like, look at people and go like, oh, there's like, it has helped me with some things and hurt me with others. I feel like it would not be good if I'm like flirting with the therapist.

It can't be someone so hot that you're flirting with them, but if they're attractive, sometimes that has helped me. I just like, I'm like a, I'm like a, I'm like a, I'm like a, I'm big on like accidental flirting. Like Laura has pointed out that it's embarrassing. And, you know, I'm sure it is. You know, like, like, you know, with a waitress or something,

you know, but I'm not doing it on purpose. I just, I mean, I'm just an actually, you're just so charming. Just an actually very sexual, what can I say? No, I'm just, I think I'm just an actually, yeah, I think I'm just actually, yeah, I think I'm very talkative and maybe that sometimes reads as flirtation. I don't really know.

This is why I need to talk to a therapist. I'm like, am I projecting some kind of sexual tension here or whatever, I don't know. Anyhow, this part you can edit out, the whole thing about this learning. Anyhow, okay, enough about my therapist. Let's talk about the thing that is giving me the need is causing the need for therapy, which is all of existence.

We are, we are, let me look at a calendar. I want to get this right in line. Okay. We are, let's see, one, that's one week. We are less than two weeks away. Now, the October 26th is a Monday, and I'm dreading October 26, because one thing that I believe in my heart of heart, they've already sort of set it out loud, because that's how they operate. But the thing that I'm waiting for is on the evening of the 25th or the morning of the 26th, there will be an announcement. Like there was, I think Trump will want to replicate 2016 as much as humanly possible.

And I believe that he will pull out all of the stops to replicate this exact thing that on the 26th of October, that is the day that the New York Times published the article that James Comey had or the FBI had opened a new investigation into some emails on Anthony Wiener's laptop, which when I say the words out loud, truly doesn't sound just just nothing. Just just just just just sound real at all. But at any rate, I think that Trump is now in a desperate position. just nothing just just does not sound real at all but uh and then he rate I think that Trump is now in a desperate position the man's losing and

losing badly though I will say all that means is continue to make him lose by voting like it is not like he will steal it because he will fucking steal it if he can the the the thing that has to be done I think we all know in Tony I know you know this, is we have to vote in overwhelming numbers this election. There has to be an overwhelming show of anti-Donald Trump sentiment out there on the ballots at the polling places. However, you vote. But he's losing, and I think losing pretty badly as it stands right now, I think that, and I've talked to people from a variety of different professions and a variety of different age ranges.

And I think we're at a point now where everybody just is like, you know what, even if I even if I voted for Trump, even if I like some of Trump's policies, I'm so tired of Trump. I'm so exhausted by him. I'm so annoyed by him. I'm so over him that I just want him to go away. And you can feel, you can feel and I, to me, is this is a very pleasing feeling. But some presidents, you know, when there's an election, you know, it's like they get voted out because people feel like they did a bad job. They didn't like their policies and whatever.

You know, like it wasn't like they're like, I personally hate this person and want to remove them from my view. It's more like, I think someone else will do a better job. Now, that of course is a component of what's happening right now. But I think the bigger component, the one that gives me the most pleasure when I think about is that everybody's sort of sick of seeing and hearing Donald Trump. And I think that he can palpably tell that his star power, which is the only thing he actually cares about, that his ability to get people either angry

or excited with the bullshit that he says has kind of come to a conclusion. And we're sort of like, it's sort of like they should have ended the show a season ago, but they wanted to eat out one more season and the main character died. It's actually when Josh Charles spoiler alert for anybody who might be watching The Good Wife now for whatever reason.

Josh Charles gets killed on The Good Wife. Again, I want to say I gave you a warning here. And then immediately after Josh Charles gets killed on The Good Wife, I lost all interest in watching The Good Wife. And they did another like three seasons or something. But I think a lot of people were just like, yeah, I'm just not, my heart's not in it anymore. I don't really care. And I feel like that's what's happening. I think what? No, I think COVID is Josh Charles staying on the good way. Well, it's, it's, it's COVID. It's, but

it's more like, it's more like, it's more like, I mean, there, I just not a one to one exactly, it's just that like, the show has become uninteresting and everybody is like ready to change the channel. And I know that like, I hope that Trump is feeling this kind of overwhelming boredom with his stick because that to me is most pleasing when I think about it. Like, it's not that people hate him because he feeds off that shit. It's not that people love him because he feeds off that shit. It's not that people love him because he feeds off that shit. It's that people are just kind of like,

we're done with you. We're done with you. We're done with you. People don't want to give him attention anymore. Right. So he doesn't know what to do with that. And in order to get more attention, he's tripling down on the things

that got him attention in the first place. And those are the things that we're sick of. And I think the proof of that. He's just making it worse from so digging a deeper hole in being himself. I think the proof of that is that his whole numbers have gone down most significantly during the times when he is a bit visible on television. Like when he out speaking, that hurts his whole numbers more than a secret Chinese bank

account, more than anything thunter Biden, they cook up it more than anything thunter Biden they cook up and more than Basically his poll numbers are only affected at this point by if he goes away or if he shows up and they go down when he shows up And we have another debate tonight, and I'm sure he's gonna biff this one Yeah, I'm really not I kind of was like, you know, I word a point where it was you know I'm obviously a voracious follower of politics and I was like, oh, is there a debate? Is there a debate tonight? I'm sort of like, drug's help. Drug's help, I would say drugs really help you get through it. Yeah, I mean, I, well, I was like, every couple days,

I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna drink anymore. And then, and then I turn on the news and I'm like, or whatever, I like read Twitter for a minute. I'm like, yeah, I don't think I'm going to make it. I don't think I'm going to make it through the evening without a drink. I do, yeah, I do think I don't, you know, sure, but my point is, yes, drugs can help. But my point is that I sort of was like, you know, I don't, I don't, I kind of don't even care that there's a debate, you know, like what will happen in this debate? Nothing can happen in this debate that will make certainly me think any differently about

the candidates. I mean, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, but Trump is going to do something like wheel of manatee out or stab somebody or, you know, set off a fire over the podium. I think he's going to, he's going to talk about Hunter Biden is what he's going to do. I think he's, um, he wants to talk. None of that is sick. But I didn't want to have it. This is all the half word was back at 2020 and how that's a, that's a, that's a foreign,

uh, foreign affairs issue. And the, the closing argument of Donald Trump's campaign is Hunter Biden is bad and a Joe Biden did coke off of porn stars as it is very different than my shelter to to coke or me who fucks porn stars drink shark week. Yeah and like and like and like that Joe Biden is like a corrupt politician who's like on the take for China and Ukraine. It's like, you know, I mean, it actually is weird because it so perfectly works as a,

I mean, the argument against it is literally Trump's argument, which is like, you've been in politics for 47 years and what have you done. And it's like, yeah, you don't really like, you don't really like hang around in politics for 47 years if you're like deeply compromised. You know, it just like, I mean, I'm sure there's some people. It speaks to the fact that Biden is stable enough to hang around for 47 years without major, like I'm not saying I like him,

but without major scandal or incident that makes him completely disqualified, whereas Trump has been around since 2015, and if anything, it's truly a reality show. And we're at the point where we're like Vanderpump rule season seven when they're all coke heads and unable to function. And it's like, we're done. Like I think I'm going to have to go back to the Great British Bake Off. I mean, honestly, like listen, you know, if Biden, here's the thing, if Biden got like millions of dollars

from fucking barisma or whatever the claim is, which is obviously unfounded and there's zero evidence of it. But even if it was 100% true, I still have a preference for Biden over Trump just for just for my sanity every day That this is what I'm saying like to the point like and I think you're saying the same thing It's like you just like I'm kind of like I mean I don't feel like I care

Who the person is at this point or what they've done? I mean you'd have to go you'd have to go Really far a field from me at this point to go like who I don't know like we should keep Trump, you have to go, you have to go really far afield from me at this point to go like, oh, I don't know, like we should keep Trump, you know? It's like, yeah, I mean, whatever Joe Biden done is like, is like something that, you know, it's something that Trump did twice yesterday. You don't even mean, it It's like it's like whatever the worst thing is a job I've done has done Trump is doing it on a regular basis Anything that Trump accuses someone else of doing or says it's gonna happen or says

Someone might do are things that he's either already done is doing plans on doing has done several times is covering up like it's you know so I don't Anything he accuses Biden of it doesn't stick at this point because he's the boy who cried wolf Like you cried wolf against Hillary Clinton so many times that it doesn't ring as strongly when you cry it against Hunter Biden Who isn't even gonna be in the White House aside from lunch with his dad like Like, I don't, in any event, I will say, guess what, Tony, guess what, you have one more show where we have to fucking bitch and moan about this. And then the week after next, we will tell you whether or not this, whether or not I will survive the next year.

Is what? Yeah, telling you. But in any event, this is winding down. This conversation is winding down. I'm listening almost. I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you you this is my promise to you, the listener, and maybe you want to maybe you don't. I don't really know. Frankly, I don't care. If Trump leaves office and you know, I mean,

there's some reasonable transfer of power, which is going to be a shit show anyhow, but we can get through it. You're going to hear so little about politics on this podcast. And frankly, I'm going to have so little to say about politics, and I'm going to be so happy. Things were actually relatively, I mean, they weren't perfect, but we were kind of moving in the right direction for a while. And at least eight years, we were basically even slowly, maybe not perfectly with a lot of, you know, issues, but still generally leaning in the correct direction of

humanity, you know, we weren't like, hey, maybe gay marriage isn't cool again. Like it wasn't like that. It was like we got over that, we're moving on to other things, you know? It's like nothing was perfect, but we were moving in the right direction. When we get back on that track, which I believe we will get back on when Biden and Kamala Harris are a win an election win the election and they're surrounded by people who are much smarter and much better at their jobs and anybody who Trump has put into any role. You know, I just think like I'm not going to be fucking losing my mind every day over politics.

I just don't- I mean, listen, the fight doesn't stop on election day. Certainly the day no of the elect, the Biden wins is the day that we start canvassing to change his mind and policies about things. However, at least I will sleep at night. At least I will be able to like go to sleep at night and not think like nuclear war is a password of mag of 2020 guests away. Like at least then I feel like I know what the work is. It is cut out for me. It is a daily fight. But I know what it is.

I know who my opponent is. It's all going. The world at least is going to make some kind of mathematical sense. And at the moment I feel like we just hit shuffle if I go off and write an article or edit an article for two hours When I come back to Twitter like it is Bedlam like someone's pulled their dick out on zoom or something and that daily craziness unrelated to Trump means that the double of Trump, like the on top of that,

means it's just like my life is chaos. I'm not saying it was easy before, but the layer of Trump on top of actual problems is just too much. It's a hat on a hat. It's icing on an already iced cake. It is so much that like I feel sick all the time and exhausted and I'm not saying things will go back to normal or that the world will not be interesting

or fascinating or scary, but it will certainly not be a situation where every single day I worry that the president of the United States might end the world, which has been in the cards for too long now. And so I just, I'm ready to move on. I think the whole world is ready to move on. I think we're obviously, I think the public's attention has turned to even new villains. I don't think that they find Trump that interesting as even a pony and a pony and anymore. Like we used to think he was a fascinating,

as much as we hated him, we loved hating him, or at least we were fascinated with hating him. We wanted to fix it. And it was like an itch that we could not stop trying to fix. But I think the world is turning towards being angry at bigger forces, which is a good thing.

I think if everybody's mad at Facebook, that's a good thing. Like the public's attention is now, and even politician's attention is now turning towards some of the systematic problems that brought us Trump. Like, for example, this week, Google is now going through antitrust suits. And that's a good thing, I think. Yes, I mean, it would be a better thing if it were actually being carried out by people who understand what Google does.

100%, but at least we're talking about it. Five years ago, three years ago, 10 years ago, we were not really, like even if someone raised the issue of like, hey, maybe one company shouldn't own all information and control who sees what. Like at least we're having some conversation about like the people that make our phones also control all information and data collection and advertising.

Like that's probably not good. And even if the wrong people are having the wrong conversation about it, I think it, for me, is a bell-weather that, like, the public cares about these larger forces more than they do this cult of personality. And I think that that's an important step at least towards something. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, what do you think about this Google monopoly thing?

Well, I think that there are, I think that we, it's been a long time coming. I think there should be, I mean, my feeling is obviously you've got to knock them down one at a time. I think that a lot of what Google has done has been extremely positive for consumers and for the internet. And I think that a lot of what Google has done has been extremely positive for consumers and for the internet. I think a lot of what Google has done has been extremely destructive. Searching on Google is sometimes somewhat nightmarish at this point.

I mean, it is very difficult to find the things that you're looking for and to not end up in some kind of weird spammy or scammy like ad situation. I think they have tried to kind of eat a bunch of services and they've done it in a very wrong headed and very bad way. I think sometimes Google does a great job of going, like we can do this better. I think a lot of times they have made it harder

for consumers to get to the thing that they really need and want and harder, certainly for competitors to get a fucking word in edge wise. So I think that on many levels, an antitrust case against Google is absolutely warranted and necessary. My question is, and I guess, when we get to it, hopefully God willing,

we will, the real meat of that antitrust case will be under a Biden, Harris ticket and presidency. And that will, and presidency, and that will, I think, make it a lot better, a lot easier for us to actually have, like, the right kind of case brought against them. You know, I mean, I don't know how, I don't know how long it will take

for that to blow out, play out, because I do worry that certainly conservatives, and the people that I heard, the Republican senators that I heard, the Republican senators that I heard questioning, questioning Google and Facebook and Apple and Amazon about their practices, do not have general consumers' best interests in mind. They have some weird tweaked, like right wing bone to pick,

that has nothing to do with the actual antitrust laws and what people need to be thinking about when you bring these cases. So I hope that somehow it's rested out of the hands of conservatives who really want to push antitrust laws for reasons that have nothing to do with why antitrust laws were created. But the second point on the Google is that they are one of many. And in many ways, Google is, while they have been, they have definitely engaged in anti-competitive practices, more often than not, not always, but more often than not, and certainly compared

to many of their other large tech companies, they have not wildly gone to a place where I feel like they are like straight abusive to consumers, you know, and to users. And I think that when you start to talk about antitrust, you have to start to talk about Facebook and you've got to talk about Amazon and you've got to talk about, I mean, to some degree Apple, I think there are places where it's clear to me that Andy Trust makes sense for Apple. There are a lot of places that I think like they're going to keep doing business as usual. But I guess what I guess my feeling is Google alone barely scratches the surface.

This is not a day, when Microsoft Antitrust case was brought, it was at a time when there really weren't a lot of monolithic technology companies and almost none doing what Microsoft was doing, like creating a platform and an operating system and all of these other services that are connected to it and all of these other services that are connected to it and all of these other apps that are connected to it in sort of like trying to control people's

sort of optionality there. There really were very few players in that space. But now when you talk about antitrust and you talk about technology, there are massive amounts of companies. Certainly, there are a handful of very large companies that control very different spaces and they need to be regulated and they need to be looked at. And so solving, like giving, you know, doing the antitrust case against Google in some ways only helps a lot of their competition who are also massive monopolies, you know, or

do-oppelies or quad-oppelies or whatever we want to call them, but you know Breaking up certain parts of Google's business will be good for Apple and Facebook But Apple and Facebook also need to have parts of their business broken up and I Don't argue Facebook's entire business needs to just start being chopped up and each product needs to be its own company Well, I mean I think there's parts of it that makes sense and there's parts of the don't. I mean, I, you know, again, Facebook is one of those things I also feel that, you know, maybe it won't be true for the hardcore QNN right-wing people

who are like in Facebook groups right now. I do think, you know, I do think that there will be a great kind of drawing away from a lot of social media by people following the Trump presidency. I mean, this is my hope and my wish that there will be a, you know, we're going to get to a point where people are going to go, you know what, I felt very fired up about this and felt like I needed to be online a lot while this president was kind of ravaging our ravaging our nation but now that things

have calmed down a little bit I think there's going to be kind of a great sort of distancing for a lot of people from social media and so I think you're gonna see natural kind of natural entropy happen on certain parts of those businesses I believe this You know, I think some people will go deeper into it. Those people are gonna be in I think maybe in smaller numbers but but Hold on so but yeah, so I think that like yeah, there are a lot of I mean Google It's good that we're going and looking at the practices of these companies and saying, we haven't done shit about this for 20 fucking years and they have grown completely wild and out

of control. They have, I mean, you know, if you've ever watched an invasive species of plant take over a garden or a yard, you know, that is what these companies have done. And sometimes the invasive species is beautiful. Sometimes it's a raspberry bush, which, you know, or a wine berry bush, which are very invasive, but also produced like pretty tasty berries. But like, you may not want them on your front lawn, you know?

And I think like, by the way, I'm thinking about this because I do have an overgrowth of wine berries on one side of my house that I'm dealing with. But no, but it is like, it's just, we have not gone in there and ever chopped it out. We've never done any cleanup. We've never said, hold on a second now face now a Google is doing air air air

You know, they're doing airline sales. You know, they're doing an airline sales. They're doing you know ticket air Yeah travel. They're doing like ticket sales like for travel I mean, there's just all these things where nobody ever stopped and went home a second guys You already have search you already have this you already have that like you already have Android Which is X amount percentage of all video on the internet that isn't pressed to use like Netflix Should probably should also control email should not so control travel right right also can also search I mean just on some of the basics some of some of the basics like YouTube should not be a part of Google.

No, it's insane. That is. I mean, it's, it's, it's, there's no fundamental reason. I understand they bought them when it was as much smaller a company and they weren't really sure where they were going to go, but like YouTube is a standalone social network that should have little to no interaction besides, you know,

how they rank for search in their search algorithm, I'm sure it's favorite, it is undoubtedly favorite by Google. I mean, having the deep pockets of Google is the reason that it crushed its competitors, like Vimeo, that, listen, was YouTube doing well when they purchased it? Yes, but there was also competition for YouTube until Google was like, here's a blank check,

we want to own video for the entire internet, and then that worked. And that's not really how you should succeed. That's not the argument of why capitalism is good. You know? Right. Yeah, so I think, yeah, basically the, I think it's a great start to have the conversation, to begin the conversation about anti-trust,

but it's not enough to just start to have the conversation, to begin the conversation about anti-trust. But it's not enough to just say, let's go after Google. It has to be a holistic thing. It has to be all of these companies that I get looked at. It has to be Apple's store app store practices. It has to be Amazon's many, many questionable business practices and anti-competitive practices and, and, and, you know, employee rights, employees rights practices. It has to be Facebook's just absolute sort of, you know, eating of the entire social media landscape, buying up, you know, apps that might compete with them, you know, forcing users into, you users into fucked up tracking and using services that they

really have no intention of using if they don't want to be a Facebook customer, but end up doing it anyhow. It's like there's these should be- Amazon and Facebook are by far the most egregious of the bad actors of the bunch we're talking about here. I would say- I would say- I would say-

I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say- I would say think they're good for the world, but I do think that of the actors, they're by far the least malicious. Yeah, I think that good and bad, or it's hard to say like, where if that to me is how I would think about these, you know, there's good and bad in all of them.

I mean, I see, I guess, but I think the societal impact of like a mind control machine that gives its services to the highest bidder and a company that literally wants to swallow all of American retail and is actively doing it. Those things to me seem like more pressing matters than like YouTube is pretty shitty and exploits creators or like the app store is ripping off devs.

Those are real problems that we need to tackle, but I feel like there's a five alarm fire happening in Amazon and Facebook's end of the court. And I feel like we're not going after them because they're so beyond reproach power wise. Right. Well, I mean, I think we're gonna, I mean, we have to. I mean, if this is,

if you can go after, if you can go after Google, then you have to be able to go after these other companies. And I do think that Google is in some ways the easiest target because their reach is so broad, and they have, you know, there's so much that you can look at and go, I mean, the YouTube ones are great example, right? Hold on a second. You guys have search, you own search. So now all of a sudden, not only do you own search, but you own this huge video network, right? And wait a second, you're also doing, you're pulling Wikipedia content onto your search pages, you're pulling, you know, what's the service, the reviews, you help your

pull, you help content into your, you know, for restaurant reviews, like, you know, it's also on the default email service for the whole internet. Yeah, right, you know, right, you don't have the default email service, you, you know, have, I would imagine they I would imagine their hangouts, the chat app position is pretty large, though I think they've got a lot of competition there, and pretty healthy competition. The operating system outside of the specific phones

that Apple sells that other manufacturers can use, like you're the only one, okay. It's a lot, that's a lot to own. Yeah, I mean, I think that there's definitely, yeah, I mean, look, it's easy to go after them, it makes a lot of sense. I think that there's a ton of stuff to say about every other one of these companies

and I look forward to somebody getting to it. I mean, we really have to, we really have to get to a place where we make some real rules about what people, what companies can and can't do, how big they can and can't get and where there is room for competition or where you're drowning out competition. Because I think it's like, it is a problem. I mean, you go, well, hey, Amazon, I get great price on stuff and I get fast delivery and it's like, that is true and it is great in many cases.

But there's stuff that offsets the goods that you're getting that if you really look at, you might have a different opinion. You know, you might say, well, I guess that's a pretty big trade-off for what I'm getting. And maybe I don't need like-day delivery on every single thing because it creates a labor environment that's really bad. Like there's all these, so at some point, we've got to start to actually create some regulations.

So we can, I mean, hopefully at the end of the day, create a better product and a better choice for consumers and get these companies to actually operate in a way that feels, it's never going to be completely, no major corporation that makes billions and billions of dollars is ever going to have a completely ethical form of operation, but there can be more ethical and more fair. And I think that's like kind of where we need to work towards at this point. So there's a great piece on input this week by Samuel Poulet about how

contactless payments have caught on in some industries, but other industries like grocery stores have really resisted stuff like Apple Pay or Android Pay or Samsung Pay. But you know with a global pandemic that can live on phone screens for up to 30 days. Most people don't want to be messing with credit cards and keypads and stuff. It's just, it's more sanitary and safer and faster and easier and more secure to use a contactless payment solution. But what's interesting to me is that the reason that these stores held out is that grocery

stores know that people stay their loyal. That's why they have loyalty cards. Grocery stores know that if you know that the food you like is at this store that's in your neighborhood and it's affordable, you don't usually go shopping for other options. There's very few extreme coupons going from grocery store to grocery store. They wanted to create their own payment solutions that they could then like try to own payments everywhere. They overplayed their hand because most people just kept using cash at that point.

But it's interesting to me because like, we don't normally think about some of these industries as tech industries, right? Like nobody thinks of Kruger as like a tech company. But they're like well-positioned like within a market that does relate in some capacity to technology and shipping. So it's interesting because in another universe where COVID-19 didn't happen, we might see Walmart pay actually catch on because that would be something useful to the people

shopping at Walmart that like, you know, did there was no sense of urgency so they could like trickle into using it and slowly understand why they should have multiple content like bliss payment solutions or like proger pay could have actually happened if they gave like some kind of discount and slowly got people on board. But now with the pandemic, like it's a pressing issue and people just people on board. But now with the pandemic, it's a pressing issue and people just want it fixed. But I think it's interesting. I never knew that contactless payment was more secure either. I always thought it was less secure because it's on my phone. Yeah. It's interesting, but I feel like I've seen a lot of technology. I mean, it's interesting, but I feel like I've seen a lot of technology kind of, I mean,

remember like, I mean, grocery stores are, there is kind of like a link with grocery stores and technology. I mean, the first, obviously, like the first, like, self checkout I ever saw was at a grocery store, you know? Yeah. And actually, more of those little guns you carry around the store with you. Yeah. Well, I was going to say, like, they're at the, what is the chain?

It's not shop, right? Shop and shop has, we went in one day day they also have the stop and shop robot which is completely insane and doesn't mean I love the robot but but um but we went in one day and and Laura's like oh yeah like they have these you get these guns and you like carry it around and you basically just like you know you say what you're getting as you throw it in the cart and I was like oh that's like a really good idea and a really interesting technology so So I think there is, I mean, it makes sense to me. There is a kind of, you know, I think that there's a lot of through line there. And I think at this moment,

in particular, you've got to start to see, we're going to start to see We're going to start to see a lot of innovation around things having to do with basics. I feel like we've seen a lot of it already happen. How you get your groceries, how you get food, how you deal with going to the doctor. I think there's a lot of things that are like, hey, this used to be easy and simple and make a lot of sense. Now that we're living in this very strange way, we've had to rethink it. And that's been good. I think for the most part, in many ways, maybe I'm wrong though. I don't know. I think it's good. I think it's good that we rethink some of this stuff because for

example, I didn't know that contactless payment was more secure. But now that I understand the mechanics of why it's more secure because it generates individual credit card numbers every time you use your debit or credit card. And then like it's gone at that point after it's been used for this specified clear amount. That's super, that's just a really great idea. But I actually also kind of hope that some companies who are incentivized to make this the best and the most safe experience for their customers are probably better off making contactless payment solutions, for example, than Amazon who wants to own a scan of your

hand print in order to get you to pay at Amazon Go stores where you weave your hand over a thing and that's how you pay. Actually, I don't think Amazon needs a scan of my hand print to solve this problem. And I don't think that they need to track everything I do in their store from the moment that I step in and how long I spend looking at carrots. Like I don't think they need that information and I think it's kind of malicious to collect it and identify it with some like biometric scanner.

Like that all just seems, I don't know, it seems in bad faith to be like, well it's just for shopping for grocery. Like we know it isn't. Whereas a crogr solution or like Walmart or like Heb or like food town, it's just for shopping for grocery. Like, we know it isn't. Like, whereas a croaker solution, or Walmart, or like, Heb, or like, food town, those companies, it's generally about the food and the selling of the product for now.

And I would rather that, I don't know. I would rather that. But I think it's reassuring to know that like, these decision society-wide aren't solely going to be made by Silicon Valley, and this instance, it sort of ended up being. But I think it gives a little insight to like other areas of our economy having some daylight between the like VC capital tech innovation or like big four tech innovation.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. It's very, it's, I also don't want to have a desire to scan my poem anywhere, to be honest. That's a little book of revelations for my taste. It's a little minority or a person in your reteness. Like I'm a little good on that.

Yeah, I agree. Well, in other retail stories that I thought was interesting this week, we also have on the site a story from Chris Stokel Walker about how influencers are now purchasing used shopping bags and like boxes and packaging from designers so they can pretend that they're rich enough to go on shopping sprees and then they like store them and reuse them again and whenever the stores change the bags they like run out and buy new shopping bags to pretend.

It's a depressing state of affairs that people are paying like $20 for orange air mess back. I find it very depressing, but they say fake it till you make it. And I'm inclined to believe them since this is what people are doing. No, I mean, it's definitely very like, I mean, I understand the point. It's just to be into purchase Rich People's garbage, then take a picture of it, and then throw it out or like put their garbage away and be like, I'm just like the Rich People because I have Rich People garbage.

It's like, that's so weird. The thing that I feel most about it when I think about it is the kind of how sort of sad it is. Like, well, first off, I'm sad about two things. One, I'm sad that there's this concept of what an quote-unquote an influencer is and what their life should look like. And you have to, these people have to perform this version of it where they're like, I'm shopping and I'm spending a lot of money and I'm rich and I get all the nice things in life.

And then other people are like, wow, I like that. And I want that to be me. And let me like hit the little like button and tell you how much I think it's cool that you're buying things. Which is like, that's a sad thing. But then I also feel like a sadness for the people themselves because it's like, your job is to be like, look at my life, it's so cool. And like, this isn't even, I know just greater and lesser degrees, most influencers project a kind of version of their life that isn't really authentic. But this is like, it just seems so to me, it's even a step beyond when they purchase sets for a day and do some photoshoots

like what they'll do is they'll purchase a private jet set by a bunch of clothes change clothes every 10 minutes and take a bunch of pictures and then over the course of two years pretend they're going on an off a private jet to me that's pathetic and kind of sad but I understand at least you don't have access to this space, you're trying to create a narrative. To me, that's less weird than being like purchasing old disposable shopping bags and then setting them up and then pretending that the clothes you bought used or new or like all of it said to me, but somehow I guess I understand the fantasy aspect of like photoshopping yourself onto a beach. I sort of get that a little more. This to me for some reason, something about it being trash

or something about it just being a shopping bag that's empty, like it's the image of capitalism without even getting the stuff and you still spent money on it. For some reason to me, it's just like a step beyond. And I worry that like, I mean at some point, right? Like it's gonna make sense for a company to have an entire wardrobe, private jet set,

all of this stuff, and you pay them like 10 grand, and then for the year, you can just like, come in in little sessions, take pictures of your fake life, post it on social, and then go home to your regular job until you like make it, you know what I mean? That's so depressing to me. It's really a bummer, I mean? That's so depressing. It's really a bummer. I mean, that's the thing. It's just, yeah, so I mean, I think, you know, I would love to,

I mean, I understand this is just like an extension of celebrity and reality TV and that, you know, what you see is not real. And so it's really a minor thing in the grand scheme. It's really a minor thing in the grand scheme. Excuse me. It's really a minor thing in the grand scheme of existence. But I do think to me, it's interesting because the conversation really should be more about. And as I think about like, you know, Zelda getting older and starting to like see social media. I mean, hopefully, I hope by the time she's like

a teenager social media has evolved like to something that she's not interested in. And you know, like we're not still talking about like Instagram influencers, which I think is very possible. I actually think social media with Gen Z and probably whatever her generation will be called, Gen Question Marker or whatever. I actually think the way that it becomes less dangerous is that they're just shit posting

whatever that sticks and it doesn't really mean anything about them. You know what I mean? I don't think TikTok is a reflection of whether or not you're good at your job or you're a functional person. It's just like whatever silly dance got likes and like, you know, you do have to be conscious of that. You can't just be broadcasting what your bedroom looks like if you're underage and stuff like that. But I do think it's probably better

that they like shit post memes and none of them take it seriously than what we were doing, which was like millennials truly believed that whatever they posted on the internet was more true than the reality of their lives. And so they were trying to create these fake selves that with different flaws,

not even like that they were flawless. They just had different aspirational flaws, you know? And I think like aspiring to someone else's flaws is probably more like being so wealthy and such a heavy consumer that you're using a private jet to the detriment of your personal finances or the environment, like to aspire to that more than like getting attention for posting random memes

Like I kind of think the unhinged meme of it all the chaos of that is probably better than like What we were doing so I actually to think there's probably a reason to worry a little less about social media with younger generations Yeah, because it's not super young people doing this right like it's it's probably 27 year old girls who are like, I thought I'd be an Instagram influencer by now who are buying fake shopping bags. Right. No, I mean, yeah, I think it's, uh, yeah, I mean, I do think that it's going to go somewhere else. I just think, I mean, I would just say that this story is, I think if you get to the point

where you're like pretending that you went shopping, you know, you might want to reevaluate if the influencer thing is, I guess it's a small component of the overall influencer bullshit, but I don't know. To me, what's interesting is when people are real and like I relate to them on a real level, what is interesting to me is like this projection of a personality that doesn't exist. So, I guess that it's unappealing to me, of course I'm old, very old, so very old, as you know I had a birthday this week, so I'm even older than I was the last time we talked on the podcast. So maybe I'm just an old person now. No, I was gonna say, I think that it's a misguided idea of why people would be interested in you as an influencer. Some influencers are super rich, but that's not why people follow them, because I know a bunch of super

wealthy Manhattanites who hang out with influencers and have all the stuff and go on the trips, but that they don't get the engagement, probably because it either has to do with a level of, you're so attractive. So unbelievably attractive, even if it's through editing, that people want to look at you. Or you are so authentic, or there's some quality about you that creates a power social relationship that people feel like they don't get elsewhere. So you see those people break through, but it doesn't have to do with their like shopping bags in the background. Like it to me, that's a millennial miss, that was a millennial misfire of like trying to solve the problem of like why some people become influential celebrities and other does don't.

Like that's not the X factor that you thought it was. So it feels like a dead end to me, but it's weird because like, you know, it's insightful of what our generation valued and what our economic status was. Like, you know, our generation is self-obsessed and like obsessed with like the world's perception of them and they live in a place with such huge wealth and a time with such huge wealth disparity that this is the result. I kind of wonder what it will be for the next generation.

Like I don't think we'll keep, hopefully we won't keep going in that direction, but. Yeah, well I do think social media, I mean, if you look at TikTok, well, I mean, the one thing I've noticed about TikTok is like, if you spend one second extra on something, because once I started digging into it, which is what I was getting to, is like,

when I started to look for videos that I will, things I thought I wanted to see, like topics I wanted to explore, and then I started to like go through what it was serving me after that. It got really interesting. And there's some truly talented people doing these weird little movies and these songs

and weird art stuff. And some of it's just very, very inventive and I don't think would exist on any other platform. It doesn't feel like YouTube, it doesn't feel like Instagram, it doesn't feel like blogging, it doesn't, it says like it's own thing. It doesn't feel like Snapchat, it doesn't feel like Instagram, it doesn't feel like blogging, it doesn't, it says like it's own thing.

It doesn't feel like Snapchat, it's its own thing. And I think that, so I think that there is like an emerging new kind of performance in social media that is actually like, feels to me more authentic and frankly, is just more interesting than trying to be like, look how rich I am, or look how beautiful I am. Like I think a lot of it is actually like, I have a weird story I want to tell

or I have this weird talent or there's this thing, I have an idea for something and it's like executing on a pretty complex idea, you know. And so I think that gives me a little bit of hope. It's funny, I think partially because of the Trump stuff, I would spend a lot more time looking at TikTok. And I mean, in some ways, he really popularized TikTok for a lot of people, I think.

And I feel like there's, you know, I feel like there's, you know, I feel like there's something emerging there that is fresher and newer and better than what has previously happened in social media, but I think we're still really early in the game to know, you know? Does that make sense? Yeah. Alright, what else happened this week, anything else that we need to talk about? No, let's get out of here. It really was not a busy week.

I mean, even Trump kind of, again, disappointed, really. Flop era. You guys are flop. Is it a flop era? Yeah. All right, should we do nice things? Nice things. Okay, go ahead, you start.

My husband is the kind of man who would enjoy something like an Emily in Paris, which I am not the kind of man built to enjoy contrary to what you may believe. I need a little dirt in my sandwich. So my ladies dressed in cool clothings traveling the world have to be fighting about murder or something. They have to be throwing wine in each other's faces about shit that happened 15 years ago. For me to get interested, I'm not interested in a nice girl goes to France and bumps into a baguette

and they fall in love. That's not my show. But that's the kind of thing John likes to watch. And so we struggle to find things in the middle ground, not all the time, but when we run out of the shows we've agreed on, finding a new show is a little bit of a hop-skip and a jump. So he wants to watch Emily and Paris. I'm not having it.

So I've started going to bed early and he could watch Emily and Paris, but in the meantime, we're trying to find things to fill the slots because we're in kind of a dead zone for TV. And so what did we watch? We watched unsolved mysteries, which I had watched the first episode of the reboot and said, oh yeah. Not juicy enough for me. I'm not into it. I walked away. John continued to watch.

And so he was like, can we watch one? I said, sure, you know what? I am a little stoned. I'll play Hades. You can solve a mystery. Sounds like a great couple's activity. We threw on one episode that is so fascinating. I need ever one to go watch it.

There's an episode and it's like vaguely about the the i think it was that i'm you know again i was don't it's about the norwegian cc i a or something but it's about a woman who is killed in a locked hotel room with a single shot to the head well i've seen this episode and i think i might have just started this episode we watched a bunch of that at the beginning

okay so they she's shot that she up a sensibly shot herself in the head although that doesn't make any sense for the positioning and everything in a locked hotel room there's evident there's there's new she's no identity they can find a wallet they can find her label the clables on her clothing had been cut or scratched off like her fingerprints had been cut or scratched off. Like her fingerprints had been cleaned out of every database. So it's clearly some kind of intelligence thing, but how did they lock a hotel room's multiple locks

before they left? And like the gun, they know it's an intelligence thing and that it wasn't just a suicide because the gun has the serial number filed off and was placed too delicately in her hand. Like when you shoot yourself in the head, you don't like slowly drift onto the bed and like your hand falls perfectly over your heart. Like it clearly was an operation, but it's maybe too clean and that's what like,

like tipped the hand and they have no idea who this woman is. And so the whole episode, they raised the way that they're going to solve the problem and then when they look into it, there's no way to solve it. And of course, it's unsolved mysteries, right? Like they're not gonna solve it. That's not you're not getting a solution. So it felt like edging for an hour without like finishing. And I was just like, well, one of the things that you kind of realize after, you know, as you get to the end of the first episode, because you're like, oh, wow, like what the fuck happened here? of the first episode, because you're like, oh wow, like, what the fuck happened here?

Like, this is crazy. And you're like, oh no, they don't know. They're not gonna fucking tell me. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, and this is the episode's gonna end. You're gonna be like, oh yeah. So now I've gotta solve the mystery. So that's gonna, I'm on Reddit. Look at that clues and comparing theories and timelines.

And I hate it and yet I love it. It's so good. And it was so juicy. Everyone please go watch this one episode. I don't know if the rest of the series is good because I haven't seen most of it, but this one episode was so fucking juicy. I, ugh, the, great, great work. So that's my nice thing. Well, that's, that's a lot. That's a lot. Um, okay, well my nice thing is is, we haven't talked about this, but I think we talked about previous to me doing it.

I went to a Japanese woodworking class, a five-day intensive, where it was just me and four other, sorry, three other students learning how, I mean, it was an interesting thing because a lot of it was just about like, okay, you've got a chisel, right? It's just a key. I mean, we basically only use like a saw and a chisel for the stuff that we did.

And it's like, these are key elements of woodworking, Japanese woodworking. And we spend like a day, a solid day just on like the chisel. Like, how the chisel, I mean, I knew how to use the chisel somewhat, but there's a ton of like intricacies. Then it's like here's how you set up a Japanese chisel. Like you don't just use it out of the box, which I didn't know because I'm a dummy. You know, and it was like a whole day thing

of like setting up the chisel and understanding how it works and not even doing anything with it. And I have to say it was like, it was like partially a very meditative thing. I mean, we spent, it was literally like a 9am to 6pm thing. And I was like on my feet doing something that had nothing to do with the internet. It had nothing to do with work.

It had nothing to do with like, it was very much about me and the wood. No, you know, and the tools. And like, I've been getting more and more into woodworking and trying to understand it. And this, this was like, oh yeah, it ostensibly was about Japanese joinery, which is like how you put two pieces of wood together, which is kind of the fundamental of building things, obviously. And I just found it, it was really one thing that was interesting. I mean, a lot of it was, I was like, okay, can we just do something now? Cause you know, I'm impatient.

But when we got to the doing part, you know, I could, I really can immerse myself in that kind of work and feel like that hour is just like, go away, they just float by, you know? And it was interesting because I obviously spend my days working with editors and talking about the news and talking about websites. And you know, it's like, it was just a very interesting break from the norm.

And also it was, you know, a break from like life. Like it was a break from what I do daily, you know, but it was also a break from just like any type of life that I'm familiar with. I learned a lot, and it was really fascinating and comforting and meditative, which I've already said. But, yeah, so I guess that's my nice thing, which is not really a specific, it's that class, but it's also just this more specific feeling of, you know, just creating and focusing on something that isn't the internet or my phone or whatever and working through that and working through

something that you can like, that you, that has like a, can have a final state and has like physicality versus the kind of the virtualness of everything that we do especially now. And it was just very, it felt very good. I mean, I was ready to be done when we were done. I was ready to get back to like my phone. You know, every day at six, I was like, can't wait to get home and like get online and see what's going on. But it just was also just a really, really good break from like, I don't know, like normal life. And, you know, I feel like I know more now about how to use a chisel than I ever have, and that's great for me, but not for the wood though.

I'm very proud of you, and I can't wait to see what this result in, if it results in some kind of Trojan horse like. Well, I built a table before I went to the class. I built a work bench actually. You finished it. I have basically finished it. I mean, it's upright. It stands.

It needs to be, it needs some planning. It needs a little bit of, it needs to be finished. Like, it needs some sanding and some planning and some, a couple of touch ups here and there. It is essentially done and functional and it works and it's incredible because I did it. But now I know a lot more about what I did wrong with it and how to do it better the next time

and that's really exciting. Because now I feel like I'm equipped. I mean, the class was not nearly enough of what I need. I need to do a lot more, but I feel really equipped to go and build something or fix something or just, you know, fuck around with the craft itself. I think that I feel like a lot more confident now in my ability to like actually do it and do it well.

Through failure, we gain wisdom because life is a roguelike. Wow, we didn't even talk about Quibi speaking of failure. I mean, I just realized we did not talk about Quibi. I mean, we kind of say, we called it. We called it. We called it. I gotta say all of our Quibi reporting about how they were like fucking around

like with these weird union loopholes and like basically undercutting pain people. And also your exploration of the Quibi subreddit, which only had when you wrote it, like had 768 members. And she hated Quibi. Yeah, and I think, and I think today, I looked at it, it had like 905 members,

so you know, kind of blew up, actually. But like all of our Quibi content, really, is Quibi content, that's with the Q, is paying dividends right right now and I'm happy about it. But yeah, Quibi, I mean, what's there to say? Everybody thought it sucked and nobody thought it would succeed. And it lived up to everybody's expectations, you know? So, I'm at note, please vote straight down ballot, vote early, vote often. Yeah. We're going to be on again before the voting goes place. So we won't, we goes place. We won't be relying. We're going to be early voting has started for some people and it will start in New York

before our next podcast. So I'm encouraging you to go to early voting because you'll cut the line. You think of it as a fast pass. Straight down the ballot for blue, but if you're in New York vote for the Working Families Party, they could use the funding and it still goes towards the democrats let's let's just down ballot democrats let's not fool around okay no vote for the working families party but down the democratic down ballot whatever don't over the democrats it's all but but please also make a plan of action for after the election day for a

cause you want to be committed to as fired up as you are now because um... you will feel less fired up if we win or if we lose but you should have a plan of action somewhere how you're gonna get involved so please do that. In any event goodbye show for this week. We'll be back next week with more tomorrow and as always I wish you and your family the very best So I've just been told that your family was taken out in a bizarre hit in a hotel room and the episode ends without any explanation you