Tomorrow - 217: Techsgiving

Episode Date: November 26, 2020

It's Thanksgiving, kinda! For episode 217, Josh and Ryan are joined by Craig Wilson, news editor at Input. The three discuss data caps, Zuckerberg's slimy schmoozing, and American exceptionalism. There are still things to be thankful for, so keep your chin up and enjoy your cranberry sauce and mashed potatoes, Tony. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to Tomorrow, I'm your host, Joshua Topolsky. Today on the podcast we discuss throttling Peter Teal and America. I don't want to waste one minute. Let's get right into it. All right, we're back. Here it is. this is it. This is it. November. Why am I screaming? I have no idea. Can anybody hear me? Ryan, you're here, right?

I'm here. We also have a special guest joining us. One of the many, one of the hundreds of news editors at input. Craig Wilson, our news editor. Hi Josh. Hi, how are you? Hi Ryan.

Hi. Craig is joining us. Now this is a big deal. Now Craig recently emigrated to the United States from South Africa. This was, when did you do it last year? What time? Yeah, last year, September. September. So this the longest year. So he was like, he was like, I want to see America at its worst. But this is only your, we're now in the zone of your second Thanksgiving. We're going to talk about that later, but I just want you to be thinking about it. And I want the listener, Tony, to be thinking about it, about what it would be like if you just came to America and you were just experiencing, you hadn't really figured out your Thanksgiving

yet. Real Lucy in the football moment. Year two. Thanksgiving in 2020. Anyhow. All right. So what's going on? There's a ton of stuff happening.

We should talk about things. Do I'm Ryan? Do we have to say, oh, Ryan, you're very ill. Can we talk about that? Hold on one second. Oh my God. Ryan, now we believe you've taken a test. Can we talk about that? I don't know if I can talk. Hold on one second. Oh my God. Ryan, now we believe you've taken a test. Can I talk about this on the app?

It's a rapid test. Yeah. You took a rapid test, so there's a 50% chance that you have COVID. Yeah, there's a 50% chance I have COVID. The test said you had COVID. Yes. So it's 50-50. But then the doctor told me that the test

is basically made up nonsense. And if I wanted to roll some dice it would be the same thing. Okay, wow. Great stuff. Very encouraging about the healthcare. Aren't you glad you're here, Greg? One of the reasons I came here was for the world class health cases. Oh, do you mean plastic surgery? Because we have world class plastic surgery, but you can't get a COVID test. We do have the best. Although I say that, but you know, we don't know if there may be, like in France plastic surgery may be so good that French people just look normal.

I'll say that it's Thailand, exquisite plastic surgery. Well, I think it seems to be about teeth. I get a lot of ads for like, in visoline and crowns. I need all of these. I need every one of those. I mean, depending on the state, we have good teeth. I think they just called it rich people teeth. It seems to be part of the American dream. That's what I need every one of them. I mean, depending on the state, we have good teeth. I think they just called it rich people teeth.

It seems to be part of the American dream. That's what I need. I have like the mouth of a person who has lived on the street for 40 years. My teeth are a mess. Okay, I have the mouth of a man who's lived in England for a regular life. In any event, the last time that we recorded this podcast, I definitely was really sick, whether it was COVID or not. I was handing to be fine, I definitely was really sick, whether it was COVID or not. I was handing to be fine, but I was really sick.

I feel like you mentioned beforehand, you were feeling nauseous or something. And then I noted, I was like, yeah, so we're gonna do this interview. We had a guest Wendy, Zookerman, who was great. But I was like, you know, you jump in, if you wanna jump in while we're talking

or whatever, you know, because Ryan often does when there's an interview. Nothing, you didn't say a word. I don't think you said anything during the entire, and it was like a third minute. I was like, so hard not to throw up, and you guys just kept talking. Yeah, that is true. She was a fascinating guest though, so. Fascinating, and we're, and just as it, you know, we have Craig here this this week and we're going to do a lot more of I have to say

I it's been a while. I said this a while ago that we were going to start ramping up guests again on a regular basis and interviews on a regular basis and I really enjoyed it and we're going to be doing more of it and if you have Suggestions for people you'd like to see on the show tweet at me at Josh with the polls you can treat tweet a tweet at Ryan at Ryan. At Ryan Hula-Han. You can tweet at Craig Wilson, but it won't do any good. You can tweet, tweet, tweet, tweet. Yeah, tweet, tweet, tweet.

Or leave us a voicemail. Wait, do we still have a voicemail line? I don't think we do. We probably do. We've probably never checked it. Oh my God. Oh my God. I also just remember there's an out West voice mail line.

I wonder if people have this probably a whole show that we made just out of the five year old messages that you have floating around there. Absolutely. Toonin for our new show, old messages where we just play 30 minutes of people, no context whatsoever. Accidentally calling the number

and trying to order Chinese food. Oh, Chinese food sounds great. Okay,how, getting back to the topic at hand, what, what were we talking about? Technology and technology, incredible stuff. All right. So we talking news here. What are we doing? Yeah. Let's talk about news. What's going on? So I really need to talk about the fact that Facebook is now trying to butter up the Biden administration after trying their hardest charm offensive on ex-president question mark Donald Trump. Soon to be fullma.

Yeah, maybe, maybe. Or you mean soon to be Georgia Senator Donald Trump? Soon to be rightful king of the Republic. I don't know. Did you see this? There's like a viral Twitter campaign that's like right in Trump for Georgia Senate, which I think maybe maybe I think maybe was started by a mega people too. Like they don't understand how it all works.

But they they they've been saying also that you know what? I don't think George is a very fair state. So I'm not going to vote it all works. But they they they've been saying also that you know what I don't think George is a very fair state so I'm not going to vote at all. Okay. They're right. I think they're right. It's totally fake. The fix is in. Don't even bother. What's the point? Stay home. If you're not going to vote your ass off, don't vote. Just just exactly. No, obviously, you know, obviously we're talking to a very specific person. Yeah, so they're buttering up, Facebook is buttering up by, and I mean, the more every day there's actually a story, I think Mike Isaac and Kevin Roost did a big story today in the New York Times about how Facebook, once again, it's one of these stories, and basically

you have one of these stories every two weeks where it's like, Facebook has the tools to absolutely eliminate all hate and violence and nots heism from its platform, but Facebook chose not to, because it would diminish engagement or whatever. It's like a story that's literally like that. And it's a part of their story. There's this anecdote, and this is the anecdote you always hear. It's like, oh, Facebook had a tool, literally,

to show fewer posts that people considered that to be like news that was bad for the world, like just bad news. They have a way of like showing people less bad news, but they found that people come to the site less if they see less bad news and so they didn't do it to the site less if they see less bad news and so they didn't do it. And it's like, I don't know.

I also have said multiple times that they're like, we want to be fair to conservatives. And okay, well, first off, it's perfectly fair to say our playing field does not include Nazism. So if you're going to compete, go right ahead, but you can't use Nazism. And it's also the case that conservatives whine that they're being silenced, even if they're the top 10 most discussed voices on the platform, even if their voices are being spread

farther, faster, and harder than anybody else. So at that point, if they're not engaging in good faith, then why do you care about trying to please them? They're gonna complain either way. So it might as well not get people killed. Sure. Might as well not create an army of Kyle Rittenhouse's. I mean, yeah, but... Well, I'm gonna get the big problem here is use a fall off.

And that's the thing, you know, this is a private company who are answerable to Peter Teele and their shareholders. And we'll do, you. And we'll kiss whichever ring or rear end is connected to the levers of power. Which I guess at the moment is sort of fortunate because if they're going to buy them before Biden, well, this was inevitable. They're going to get the money we'll follow whoever, you know, weighs the crown. What concerns me though is that Biden I think knows and obviously our constituency in the Democratic Party certainly knows that Facebook is out of control and is begging to be regulated.

But the Biden administration has shown a certain centrist corporate propensity to listen to lobbyists and donors. And I'm concerned that Facebook's like campaign of charm offensive is going to actually work in its favor and that we're going to go four years without actually regulating this like thing. Yeah, we're going to repeat 2016 in 2024. I think there's look, I think there's something to be said for that sort of moderate coziness, but I will also say, I think, um, I think, um, the Democrats understand that that Facebook is a weapon, is a weapon of choice for the Republicans because Republicans will use every, we'll slip through every loophole and we'll use every opportunity to lie

and sort of spread lies on the platform. I think it's like a somewhat of a, not just about Facebook's business, but I think Democrats must see that the future of like them being able to make certain types of arguments is going to be hamstrung by having services that are so vast that are obviously engineered to promote messages that are further and further from the truth. And I think like, I think so, so I think there's a kind of existential question for the Democrats that obviously speaks to lots of other pockets of society, but is like, hey, do you want to empower a vehicle

for misinformation and disinformation that very often levels lies and mis-truths and just outright sort of like hate-inducing bullshit. Like do you want to allow that to continue to be mobilized by the right wing and by even more extreme groups than, you know, the regular right wing? Or do you want to, do you want to clip its wings somehow? And I think, like, I I just and I think also for humanity Of course, it's wings should be clipped

But but I think that for them if they don't It's like it's like how do you fight that I mean there there I mean the reality is 72 million people in this country voted for Donald Trump 72 million people walked into a Voting you know polling place or walked into, you know, or got the mail and ballot or whatever and we're like, that's the guy I wanna follow and that's the guy I wanna listen to and like the, that platform is just a megaphone

for that kind of stuff. And it's turned, it probably converted people who were moderates into extremists because of the lies. And so like, I think you got to, when they think about, it's actually a moderate, it should be a moderate goal. If you're a Democrat that believes in, and maybe I'm rambling here,

if you're a Democrat that believes in, your ability to get these middle voters that sometimes vote Democrat, sometimes vote Republican or these independents who are like, I don't know, you know, I'm an issues voter or whatever, whatever they believe. No, of course, but if you believe that and you're a moderate, then you may look at a machine that turns moderates into extremists and say, we got to, we got to break that machine.

We've got to do something about this, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I just think, it's less of even about like good policy. If you just take away, go to the most craven basic politics of this thing. I don't think Facebook is good for Democrats. And I think for Republicans, it's a massive vehicle of lies and misinformation that has polluted, absolutely polluted their base and their voters and whatever the Republican Party stood for,

which is like garbage, but this level of garbage is unprecedented in human history. Why is that? I'm looking forward to seeing how many people, as often happens, some sort of over-correction crisis, how many people distance themselves in the wake of the last four years from that particular shade of republicanism? You know, I still like people who go, okay, they start coming to their senses because this guy is no longer yelling at them 24-7? Absolutely.

There are some who look, I understand why you would support Trump in all manner of horrors if you can continue to stack courts and if you can continue to drive Republican agendas that extend beyond anyone's particular term. I understand the virtue of not impeaching him even when there are so many other obvious reasons why you might want to. But when he's no longer in power, it becomes a little bit more difficult if you are a more reasonable voter to say, well, to hang on to that kind of those extreme fringe views, particularly when the broader climate has, hopefully, will shift somewhat in a year's time when maybe we aren't

talking about the president for three days in a row. See, but when the Facebook machine still exists, I'll say this as someone who's very interested in in cults and to and I mean this is like a serious like academic thing. I for a long time thought I might go into cult psychology when I went to college because I'm so fascinated with it. And through my adult hood, I've studied. It is people who leave cults are extremely susceptible to getting into a new cult

in the way that people who are dealing with addiction are extremely susceptible to getting addicted to something else. And if Facebook exists, which is basically all the tools you need to get into another addiction. It's another dealer. Someone else is going to take advantage of all these XQ and on X Trump people. And I think we need to break the wheel now. And if we don't, we're staring down the barrel of something far more chaotic and far more intentional than the Trump phenomena. And I would especially

say not just to democratic politicians or to regular people, but to people who work at Facebook, you're not going to change it from the inside. Like I've seen so many people say, oh, well, you know, I don't agree with it, but I, you know, I want to change the culture from the inside. I want to be an agent of good. I want to be in the room where the decisions are made. It's not happening. It's not happening. It hasn't happened. Your belly aching has done nothing.

Please leave your jobs. The tech sector has a lot of other jobs. Millions of people are going to want to work with someone. Millions will want to work with someone who used to work at Facebook. And you can go be a whistleblower or something or go talk to a journalist and actually try to pressure the company in a way that might make an impact. Yeah, but I think that there can be regulatory pressure that works.

It has worked before and it will work again. I mean, yes, change needs to come from inside of Facebook. I think there needs to be leadership change. I personally think like, at some point you have to go, we can be very, very, I mean, at what point does the profit become a secondary story to the damage that you're doing to the world? I mean, I know that I know that their investors and their board and everybody who works there, I know we can be as cynical as possible and think like, you really only care about making money,

but I don't believe that. I don't believe that there are, that every single person who makes money off of Facebook is like, I don't care what they have to do to make the money. Because then you're on board for like, let's kill children, let's traffic people, I mean, like, what does it matter? You know what I mean? Like, there are people who have material connection,

monetary connection to that company that don't want it to be the way it is. And I just think like, with Mark Zuckerberg, I think with, yeah, there is a Peter Teal, and I don't know how many people are more, I don't know how many people in the Facebook board are more or less like Peter Teal, but if they're all Peter Teal, that's pretty fucking scary. But I have to believe there are people who've invested time and money into that thing and want to see it do some good.

And I don't know. At some point, you have to start looking at Zuckerberg and saying, and maybe this is not even a possibility. But it's like, you know, maybe take a step back and let somebody who has a different type of experience with a different set of values come in and helps steer the ship. Because I think Facebook can still be an unbelievable ad platform and an unbelievable communication platform without all of that garbage.

And it's like, you know, if it can, then we should, then it should be abandoned by its users, then anybody with a shred of sense. And I've been like, honestly, and we probably talked about this before, I have a Facebook account. The only reason I keep it right now is because it's like attached to like business accounts that Like websites that you know for better or worse,

your website needs to be on Facebook. It just like it needs to be able to function. Also journalists, especially tech journalists, Facebook is a huge tool. It just is. It's a great giant address book. But if I were person who's, if I were person whose job wasn't like fundamentally linked, literally and figuratively to like social networks and Facebook, I would, I would get off that shit so fast. It wouldn't even, it would, your head would spend. It wouldn't even be a question. So for the second or third time, I deactivated my account last week and from now on, the phase of waiting for it

to be Puma deleted. I haven't looked at it in, I haven't looked at it in, I mean, I just don't look at it every time. Anytime I need to like authenticate something because I use my Facebook, you know, author or whatever, it opens the app and I'm like, because I, there's very few things that I've done that with, they're usually services that I don't care about at all. And I'm like, but I opened the app and I'm like, because I, there's very few things that I've done that with, they're usually services

that I don't care about at all. And I'm like, but I opened the app and I'm like, immediately wanna close it. Like I don't even wanna explore it. I don't even wanna see what's in there. Just as like the whole thing to me is just, it's just two things. Well, that's just increasing.

It's also just like angry old people for the most part, at least like the most engaged users I see on mine are like, aged family and friends of, you know, and friends families. And this is probably, I've just, I've been meaning to sort of deleted for ages, I get no use out of it. I find the Twitter is the more useful medium for story generation or reaching out to people. And the one that I'm actually sort of engaged with. But the platform itself is just, I mean, I would really like in an ideal world to get rid of WhatsApp and Instagram too,

but WhatsApp remains extremely popular in Africa and Europe. And I have a lot of people who communicate with me there rather than say, signal. Instagram I've removed from my phone so that I never look at it, mostly because I find the Instagram desktop experience is much better. You don't have, you know, you don't get the stories pushed on you as aggressively, and you don't get,

the shopping is removed, you don't get all the stuff. You don't get the adverts exactly. And you know, this is the way I worry actually looking at Twitter and the fleets is this, all services tending towards the same zero sum game of offering exactly the same things I find very disheartening but but Facebook Yeah, there's just I haven't had value out of it in in so long Plus the fact that I just don't I just want to be connected to that platform anymore All I ever use it for is to look at my old high school Nemesis's Nem, whatever the prosis. Nemesis? Nemesis, yeah.

And try to feel smug. And you know, that's not a noble piece of work. Is that work? I do that at like four or five in the morning. Oh, really? Oh, if you saw some of the credence I went to high school with. Yeah, yeah, it works. It works great. You see how many teeth they lost and you feel amazing. See, this is like a connection I had don't have at all to, I mean, I can't even imagine what it's like

to be honest with you. Oh, that's right. Because you skipped the high school experience. I did not really go to high school and so, and I'm actually- Wait, what, what, what do you mean you didn't go to high school? You've homeschooled? Not really, no. Were you in a cult?

I caught- No, I dropped out in like ninth grade. Josh said, I'm not going to finish school.. I'm gonna go be a very popular DJ and then start a wildly successful tech site I I made my parents very unhappy I made my parents very unhappy. And keep going. Like, can any of you mention, it's very unhappy and just to be clear, just to be clear, like, I'm not from like a wealthy family.

I mean, a lot of people who can do that are like, they're like, well, I'll never have to worry about money in my life, so who cares? My mom's like a schoolteacher, my dad, so it's like snack food, like, for a living. Like, he went to like, comedian's story, comedian's story, selling like beef jerky. And so we're not, yeah, no,

anyhow, this a whole other, that's all I'm gonna do. Yeah, that's all right, and it means to be realist. No, no, I do, I'm not real, I'm not real, okay. I was just saying like, cause I'm thinking about like who I would go on, like people I knew like at raves when I was like in my teens, like I'm just trying to think of,

just, just, anyone you hated, anyone who made you feel bad about yourself, you know, everybody. That's the version of them. It's still shitty. That's the whole world. That's the whole world. Now that's interesting. Actually, now you're giving me an idea, like a good idea of what to do with Facebook.

I'm like, wait, I hadn't thought of it, but like, yeah, there were definitely people that I'd love to like, check out. Yeah, cousin who is such a dick to you, Go on there and see how ugly her kid is. No, we have, I actually all the cousins of my family have a great relationship. Oh, that's nice to hear. Let's get me in the, this is the point though. If the best you could hope for out of Facebook

is that it makes you feel better about your life versus other people's lives. This is not a service that we need in a time like this. This is not adding value to us. It a time like this. This is not adding value to us. It doesn't feel essential. I'll put it, let's put it that way. I mean, like, I do think, I do think we're going to swing back. I think to some extent, we've talked about this a lot, Ryan. I'm afraid, Craig, we probably talked about it too, but like, I think that, you know, the TikTok generation has a totally different relationship with social media.

I think Instagram is increasingly a, is people are like aging out of Instagram. I mean, I think there's like a, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like there are a lot of people who are like, I do TikTok, but I'm not gonna be on Instagram. Yeah, I'm sorry. The whole millennial, like I'm an influencer,

this is my best life, I'm gonna make you like, yeah, the last thing is so cornball and so old. And I think everything I see from people like either my age or younger, especially younger is the like I'm just going to be ironically detached and post like shit post memes and not even attach my name to any of these accounts. We're like, I'll just stand Nicki Minaj ironically. And like that to me, it's like you still get the fun of being on social media and like it's still like you get to do something with it and interact with it

and you know who your friends are on there and if you need to reach out to them you could. But for the most part, it's not as high stakes as being like here's my official opinion of this fracking thing and it's like, here's my official opinion of this fracking thing. And it's like, you know, Karen, you work in accounting. We don't need your official political stance. And you don't need to take the chance of getting canceled because you took a fracking state. Like everyone in my age or older treats it like it's their PR, like press release. And

they treat it like it's a PR venue for them and an official, like their official documentation of their life and like nobody cares, be it. Nobody cares, you're just paying yourself at risk. I agree, I think it is kind of weird that we were like, let's give everybody a forum for this broadcast to be very personal and passionate beliefs. You know, it's like, it's funny

because the joke about things like Twitter used to be, you know, I don't wanna see people on Instagram, I'm like, I don't wanna see people who are like sharing their lunch. And now I'm like, I don't know, man, I'd love to see people. Yeah, that's all I want. I want them mundane.

Yeah, I wanna see a SpongeBob meme about your lunch. And that's it. Because it's like because it's like because what I really don't want to hear is like what you think about voting security in America unless you're like unless you're a voting security expert, even then I kind of don't want to hear it. Frankly, I don't need to see Jake from fucking, from a party I went to eight years ago, show his abs and say like, here's my thoughts on Ted Cruz. Like just show your abs and go, Jake. I don't think I have that problem, but on my feed.

But I will say, it's funny how you just reminded me though of like, I definitely have a few, not a few, probably more than a few, on Facebook of people who were like, we met at a bar, and we should be Facebook friends, like when Facebook was a, when everybody was kinda like, find me on Facebook, you know what I mean?

Like, there was a period where that was like a normal thing. I just, I should go back and find those people, because like, I didn't even know them. These are like people I bet, for like, we like had drinks for two hours. You know, so you're sitting next to them at the bar or whatever and you're like, this is my strike up. I remember one time we went out one of Laura's friends came here.

We went out where like she's like, I want to go dancing. We're like, okay, and we ended up going to this place in Williamsburg that was like, there were like 10 people there. It was it was like a Wednesday or something or a Tuesday. And we had a really good time. We met these people there and it was like, let's be Facebook friends and like every once in a while, I'll get a notification.

And I'm like, who is this? Oh yeah, oh yeah, person I met one time for two hours at a bottom. That's a long lasting, some of the relationship. It was only interesting to me because I have an Instagram follow who's a dude that was an Uber driver who drove me

in Laura somewhere and he was like tell me about like his he was like going to be an entrepreneur and I was like I'll follow you. So you so you didn't add our our Uber driver from CES Josh he was telling us about how she carries a gun and of course she carries a gun because where she came from, you used to give the kid, the oldest kid the gun in case there was any trouble when you were out working your second job. The guy in the car, you were absolutely, I think she was from North Carolina and she was like,

well, you asked her if she was packing heat. Oh yeah, well of course, I mean, this is Las Vegas and I'm a female Uber driver. Damn straight, I'm armed. Oh yeah, that was, I remember that sort of, I mean, we were going between bars though, right? Just to be clear, like, That's true, yeah.

And then there was this gesture that perhaps we might want to connect on social media. Oh, wasn't it? Well, you know, okay, I don't remember that part, but I, oh, man, see, yes, the memories, you know. Remember going to real things in real places. The memories, you're lucky to have them. Which is part of what Facebook used to be useful to,

for I used to live Facebook because when I traveled, it would be the way people would message you. They'd be like, oh, I see, you're in Berlin. And then they would send you a message on messenger, or they would invite you to parties. And then if you weren't on it, you wouldn't get invited to things, but people would be like, well,

I put the invite on Facebook. So if you didn't know about it, it's not really my fault. Unfortunately, I feel maybe I've just aged out of this, but that's changed. Now it's like people don't invite you to anything because that's deeply responsible. But one day when people are inviting us to things again, they'll just send you a, I don't know, I'm a bunch. Exactly. No, you don't know. But I have been saying for many years, and I'm sure I've said this on the show, and am I always right?

No. But when I am, I will harp on it. Not always. I think that, like, back down. When you're right, you're really right. But when I'm right, I will harp on it and remind you. I think that Facebook's next evolution should be into an open protocol, the way that email,

and SMS are. And anything else is, it's always going to develop into complete chaos. It's always going to evolve into abuse because, you know, like Gmail is a great experience because Google is incentivized to try to default email app. And it has other competitors who are also trying to do the same thing. And so if events and yes, no, maybe is to parties or if photo feeds or whatever were open protocols, then you would be able to pick the app that you thought was serving your needs the best and you could drop whoever was creating right wing abuse cults. I don't see it.

I'm not likely, but I'm saying in I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I know I think it well, but I think the destiny for that business is just going to continue to be filled with old people who are sharing crackpot theories and it will be like, you know, it'll be somewhat like the way email has become and a lot like most of my email is spam That I ignore the vast majority of email I get is stuff that I ignore It goes into a folder somewhere and I never see it. And I think that like Facebook will be like the, it'll be the email of the internet. The future of you, it's like the spam email. It's like the spam email of all,

spanning the entire internet, like all of the ways that you could experience spam. Let's talk about the entire internet. Let's do it. Let's do it. Another story that is pissing me off and I'm sure is going to piss Tony off. Comcast is about to introduce an internet data cap for the entire internet, which is a new concept to Americans across the Northeast in addition to the, I think it was 27 out of 39 states in which it operated, that it had expanded this, and now it will

introduce it across the Northeast, where all your data will have to be less than 1.2 terabytes a month, which sounds like a lot, but if you think about Netflix and Zoom and listening to music and anything else you might be doing, and if it's not just you in a studio apartment, but in fact a large family, you hit that cap real fast. Yeah, well, it's kind of insane that literally everybody's like 4K, 4K, 4K, 4K, it's like all 4K streaming is so much. Oh, Google Stadia. Google's like, they're streamer games. What? streaming is so much. Oh, Google stadia. Google's like, just stream your games. Yeah. Right. It's like game streaming and 4k video and the new consoles and now all of a

said, you know, we're downloading massive like 80 make 80 gigabyte games. It's just to 250 gigabyte update to call and do what it's not that big a deal. Right. Right. Well, I mean, I do believe, I mean, I'm sure there's just such a bad time to do this. Let's just say they have a legitimate business reason, and that 99% of their customers are, what's the number 95% of their customers they say don't ever go over at the limit? Let's just say that's all true, but at this moment, when everybody's literally

trapped at home because of a pandemic, why would you be like right now? I mean, yes, okay, I get you have a captive audience, but it just feels like, why don't you wait a few months till at least the vaccine start making their way out there? Because people are, I mean, Ryan, you mentioned this, people are homeschooling multiple kids.

You're like, you have to watch all your entertainment at home. You have to basically stay at home and use your internet for lots of different things. For work. Why, if for work, for play, for communication, for everything, why at this moment, why here at this moment, right before the hallways? Shareholder growth, baby. Right before Hanukkah, which everybody's waiting for.

Be the Hanukkah students. Hanukkah students. Yeah. Now you're screwing everybody. I also point out that all of this wouldn't be so bad and it wouldn't snack so hard in the way that it didn't when mobile carriers said that they were doing away with unlimited data years ago. Because guess what? Market force has forced them to bring back unlimited data because Sprint said, well, the thing that will differentiate our crappy service will be that you can have

as much of it as you want. And then everybody had to fall into line and try to compete with that. Comcast is both government subsidized. You paid for Comcast to be in your roads and to have a link up to your house in the way that you pay for a lot of pharmaceuticals to be researched. And then a private company gets to reap all the profits

from it. And on top of it is a monopoly. Comcast is probably a monopoly. If you're listening to this and you use Comcast, it's probably because it's a monopoly. Most people do not have the luxury of choosing between multiple high-speed internet providers. That's true.

As usual, if your only option is Comcast and your only option, they could price out whatever they want as long as they don't raise the hackles of the legislators. The only people at that point that Comcast is trying to not piss off are senators. And that's it. Well, and as usual, if you live in rural America or you live somewhere where there really is the only concourse, the only show in town, you really have no choice and get the short end of the stick again. But this lack of... And you can't put the right to be screwed like that.

You paid your tax dollars... Right, right, previously subsidized. ...and they're only too exes. I live in Brooklyn, which I don't consider especially rural, and even I only have one choice of internet provider. It's optimum or a mobile something. There is no choice whatsoever. So I can only imagine if you live somewhere where Comcast is the only, only option.

I mean, it's not like you can hold hold out hope and be like, well, you know, it's fine. I'm sure I'm going to have unkept 5G to take the pressure off anytime soon because, you know, that's not going to roll out to outlying areas, right? And even if it does 5G, there's only so much spectrum and only so many companies can own that spectrum. So it's already limited, just by the laws of physics. So at that point, I don't understand why the US, I mean, I do understand because money is in politics, but the US should have a system similar to the UK

where up until the last mile, it's a common carrier. And then it's on, there's little shacks and at the end of the giant pipeline, there is a wire that the one company can decide to run from the shack to your place. And then you can decide who you want to run that wire. And then they can all compete with each other. But the issue here is that we don't have that.

Like, it's not like the power company, it's a utility and then you can choose your power company and they're using the common cables It is just you know they own all the cables that you free market, baby. That's the free market I don't understand your problem with it How it works, okay You put the cable down there and then everybody got to use your cable. What's the issue use your service? I don't know why it's funny. I mean if these companies had it their way There are so many things that people love that would just simply not exist. Do you know how they had it their way? We would have television and cable and that's it and we would be paid there would literally be there would be 13 there would be like 13 channels

or whatever they're used to be and like NBC red NBC blue NBC yellow NBC green. I mean, yeah, it's like it's just exactly Anyhow no, it's a nightmare. I do think I mean I recall I'm the funny thing is you forget when you get good service because I have Fios now which is mostly great and You know of course run by the biggest bastard of all the providers. But you know, you're like, I'm like, oh, it's so good. Like, whatever, like we're all set here, no complaints.

And yet, I remember being in Brooklyn and only having time Warner, that was my only option, time Warner cable. They may have, maybe they have expanded at this point that I don't know. And it was like so bad at one point I was like I'm getting rid of this and I'm gonna get a dish like in Brooklyn I'm gonna get a dish because oh my because this this TV the TV service was so bad and just like I hated the company so much

I was like yeah, I can't remember but that I was also a horrible decision. But the point is, I tried it. You know what a great TV service is? You know what a wonderful TV service is? YouTube TV, but it's because there's different competitors. I hear what I think. Any service that carries OANN or Newsmax. Or the Scientology Network? No, I mean, yeah, I mean, honestly,

if I ran one of these carriers and I was like, oh, there's a channel that's on TV every day that is just sharing demonstrable lies as couched as news, as misinformation. We talk about Facebook a lot, not to completely deviate this conversation where we were, but we talk about Facebook a lot and all this moderation, and why don't they control this, and why don't they stop lies from spreading. But there are literally like 10 to millions, hundreds of millions of homes in this country that get these channels.

And the carriers, sorry, the providers assume no responsibility whatsoever. It's way worse, we'll see Claire as an entire network of built on this kind of like right wing bullshit. But I'm saying that like Newsmax and OANN and RT like Russia today, these are like, they are carrying like the kinds of things that get on Facebook now and on Twitter, the tag that's like, this is disputed or this is a lie or this is not, you know, based in reality or whatever the fuck they get.

That's their entire existence. Yeah, but it's their entire existence. It's their entire existence. And you have to's their entire existence. It's their entire existence. And you have to wonder, you know, what's the benefit? I understand, I mean, yeah, your customer's some customers may be pissed off, but also again, you're stopping the spread of lies that are creating, like, truly making people

like lose their minds. Like, they're like, they're like, they're actually creating mental illnesses. You're spreading disease. Yeah, like, like by not, by not having an agreed upon set of, and by the way, it's fine if you have a difference of opinions or you say, well, science says this and then somebody says, well, there's a scientist that says this, you can have a conversation about that.

We're, I'm not talking about those kinds of things. Like, you know, there's like studies show different things. I'm talking about like, stuff that's like not true. Like, chocolate make you lose weight. Like, I don't know, this's like studies show different things. I'm talking about like stuff that's like not true. Like chocolate make you lose weight. I don't know, this study said that people who had, you know what I mean? We're talking about people who are like, there's a deep state that has a,

that and they steal hundreds of millions of children so they can use their pretuitary glance to keep Hillary Clinton young. Yeah, that's like not happening. I don't, that's not happening. But no, it's even the election stuff. It's like widespread election for all these stations or like there's widespread fraud.

The vote was stolen from Trump. All this stuff, it's like there's no, not a single shred anywhere, not a drop of evidence to support that. And it is truly fucking up this country. Anyhow, so like, you know, you talk about this lock-in, but I also think let's make these people, let's make them more, they should answer more to the consumer and they should answer

more to our government about how they, how they, how those, by the way, speaking of net neutrality, this is a place where, you know, there are, net neutrality has been absolutely destroyed during the Trump era. And there are, this is the kind of question about throttling that would come up in a net neutrality conversation. You know, when you throttle, potentially, you are not only making the experience worse

for consumers, but you're also making it harder for competitors. I mean, you've got to force it. You've got to force it with regulation. Right. There's no care, it's got to be stick. You've got to say, well, like for coverage or for internet speeds, you've got to say, you need to, if you want to continue to have

a license, if you want access to 5G spectrum, if you want to be able to offer fixed line internet connectivity, you need to provide 98% population coverage at a minimum speed of 20 megabits a second. Or something. You need to make these rules that are like, if you don't hit these targets, we hit you with a, you know, a billion dollar, that's never enough, a 10 billion dollar, or a hundred billion dollar fine. It's gotta be punitive, because let's be the only thing the market,

these sorts of markets understand. Otherwise, poor people in Noezville are always gonna have shit internet. Well, that's, there's a reason why our internet coverage is in this country, is spotty and often slow. I mean, comparatively to other countries. I mean, you know this. I mean, I actually don't know what it's like

in South Africa. I was gonna ask, I've been having meetings a little bit to ask what is the internet situation. What's the problem? For example, I mean, it was like you mentioned with your FIAS connection. For the last couple of years that I lived there, I lived in a neighborhood that had fiber internet

and you could choose between anything from five megabits a second to a gigabit line, assuming you could afford it and say, you could get a really started like a 200-meg line for the equivalent of, I don't know, $30 a month or $40 a month, which comparatively was a lot of money. But the point was, if you lived in the right neighborhoods, you could get good, you could get great internet if you lived in the right neighborhoods. But if you like here. Yeah, if you lived anywhere else, and it didn't have to even be anywhere else, you know, like deep rural. For a long time, I, the neighborhood I lived in had great internet, 10 miles away, my mother's neighborhood had, I still had ADSL lines. The

base you could get was a copper connection. So it was the same kind of thing. The right neighborhoods, great coverage, great connectivity, everywhere else, good luck, and then the added sort of crippling punishment that if you could only live on So, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you but it costs you $100 and $100 is a lot of money in Silicon terms. That's how it was when I was in Australia, it was, you know, the actual internet was so capped because there is one line that connects all of Australia to the internet. There is one cable. And sometimes that cable, something would happen and you just wouldn't have internet. And that's a nation as larger than the US. A nation with the same size, width wise,

as the moon had one cable. So it was very frustrating and expensive, but then mobile data, I mean, that was absolutely comical, absolutely insane. And yet, I had more choices on the table for providers with that tiny limited amount. They were working harder to try to bring me good options than we have in the US, which has enormous infrastructure.

Like couldn't have more infrastructure, invented the telephone, and I don't have as many options here, and it's very frustrating because, you know, we have Fios that are new building, but at the current building, we were told by the Fios people that it's up to the people who own our building to make an appointment and do some stuff,

and they didn't really wanna do it because it was gonna cost them some stuff overhead and the city wasn't incentivizing it, and it's this whole thing where like, all right, well, I guess I just have this one crappy provider. And I have to pay them because not only before COVID, but after COVID, I all my work is digital. And I have to move large video files. And so at that point, it's just the cost of doing business. And with this kind of like captive audience, I mean, it just, it opens people up to abuse. And I think we need to take very seriously,

like, I think during the Obama years, we thought that like tech was just going to solve everything by virtue of being new. We need to take very seriously political, technological issues and start regulating these companies because we now know that these companies are just like every other capitalist company and they're going to screw you if given the option. And we've seen what banks do and they're going to do what banks do. And so we have to, it's on us to make sure that we regulate them the way that we've regulated, you know, automakers and the way that we've regulated other industries into being responsible members of society.

One regulation doesn't have to mean communist. And it doesn't have to be something bad. Like guess what, if the audio industry hadn't been regulated, I guarantee you most automakers would probably be in a worse position. There would be one who is in a great position. Ford would probably be doing great in our new horrible house.

The one who likes seat belts. Yes, but the rest of them wouldn't exist. And so yes, it is the medicine tough to quote Margaret Vacher, it is. But guess what? You have to fucking take it. And it'll be good for everybody on the other side of this. All the tech companies will be very, very, very prosperous.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. The companies we're talking about. We want to think if you were like, wow, these alien companies, listen, we don't want to regulate them out of business, Ryan, okay? Absolutely. Do these suffering. These little little names.

No, damn. These companies are quarter after quarter. Particularly, I mean, you talk about record profits, the carriers and the providers. Quarter after quarter. Record profits. Record. Roying. Profits. You understand, they're making a lot of money. Okay. They don't, it's not, it's not, but it's not pre-ordained that they get to just do whatever they want and make as much money as possible because that's good for their business.

I mean, you gotta think about the long game. This country is like, this country is truly as problems are thinking of the long game at this point. It's become so abstract to people in America that they can't go to your point. What's better in the long run? You know, like what actually will be better for the country? How can we be a stronger nation?

How can we have more companies like Apple spring up here? How can we take on the rest of the world and continue to innovate and to make the quality of life here better, all this shit? And it's like, I'm sorry, what is the end? Like a scorched earth where Jesus comes back? Like, I don't know who really believes it. I don't know, but none of these were public in politicians.

There may be a few really dumb ones. But like, no one believes that the rapture is coming. It's like, we're stuck here. And it's like, yeah, I guess we could do like, whatever I assume at the purge, and one of the purge movies eventually, there's like, yeah, I guess we could do like, whatever I assume at the, the purge, one of the purge movies eventually, there's like a community of rich people with a huge wall around there, like purge free houses or something.

I guess that could be the way it's gonna work out if you think so, but also maybe the flip side is like this country got where it was going in the first place because we were actually doing a lot of like socialist projects, like projects. What we were doing was we were sitting down and saying thoughtfully what, to prevent the kind of disasters that we've seen, what can we do to like build a better society, to be that great shining city on a hill?

What do you do to build a city on a hill? Well, you're going to need a city. You're going to need a hill. You're going to have to start building things. And in order to create that great society, in order to create to foster a middle class, it's not just going to be a winter, takes all a slave situation. We're going to have to say certain things are illegal. You can't have slavery. You can't abuse workers. You can't feed people rotten meat. You have to clean air. You have to clean the water. I mean, these are all American ideas. I don't understand what's un-American about saying we need to have competition in the marketplace or we'll have a situation we had with steel or railroads, which Americans

rejected. So let's reject it when it comes to information and fiber. Yeah, it's crazy. I gotta say, also, I mean, again, I'm not sure, the craziest, one of the craziest things about the Trump era is that it got us all starting to have these conversations that like, just were so completely over. And not even over, but you wouldn't even considering the having the conversation,

what you'd be like, that's not even. That's for granted. You would say, let's care about other people's children because children are important. In the Trump era, it's like, fuck your kids. My kids are more important. And if your kids succeed, my kids fail, it's like, fuck your kids. My kids are more important. And if your kids succeed, my kids fail.

Which it doesn't even make sense. I mean, also, also like, I definitely had moments where, I mean, I'll admit, I had moments where when all of the, I mean, as this crazy stuff has been going on in the, and that like a real fascist, like a real fascist wave has been kind of like rising amongst Republicans. Like, what they really want a dictator? And they really seem to be saying like, being against fascism is wrong and being

for fascism is good. And like trying to kind of turn it all around, I did have like occasionally a fleeting thought where it's like, wait, did we arrange, has society, have I made an assumption that society will be arranged in this progressive manner where people are, you know, trying to be better to each other and more accepting and more open and more, and you know, want to push the ideals of more education and healthcare for everyone and taking care of your neighbor and all the stuff that I think leads to progression in humanity? Have I, is it just some weird lie that's been fed to me that that's the way society should organize itself?

And is it possible that actually the way that we're ultimately going to really be organized is around this like Nazi kind of fashion, like, you know, might makes right strong man reality where like it's like, oh yeah, that's the order of things now that like you're if you can be beaten with a club and like that's the way society is now going to actually be a range and perhaps all of this other stuff was like an anomalous moment in human history where things were getting better. And like it actually like there were moments right legitimately was like, oh, like maybe everything that I perceive as being good and right is just like a mistake and we're actually going, that's the way society's supposed to be. Not like I endorse it, just like. Just you go from your mission bias that you've been blinded to it by your...

Right, and so no flake up again. Yes, yes. Yes. It was the liberal globalist, what are the other scare words? Was a society of people where we cared about each other and we were trying to work towards higher ideals and aberration because of certain circumstances?

Or is that actually where humanity will trend as we get more capable and technologically proficient and intelligent? And I still don't really know. I think we need to like, we have to believe in something better, or why else do we keep living? I'm just saying, no, I'm just saying

I have to believe something better. No, to be clear, I think that the progressive stuff is correct. I think that that's the arc of humanity and history is to us being better, not stronger, not being like stronger than other people. I actually believe wholeheartedly that that is the correct path for humanity to take.

I'm saying that these people got the conversation to a point where I did have a fleeting, that fleeting moment of questioning it. And it's like that I could even have a moment of questioning. It's such a weird scary thing to me. But it's like, but why are we even fucking having these conversations? Why are we even questioning? It's like, it's such a broken worldview.

And they've been able to express it so broadly and so constantly that it's like, it's now sitting in the back of our brains and we have to, there has to be some way to cleanse that. There has to be some way to erase it, not erase it, maybe to move through it. You know, I mean, it's, everyone just needs to take psychedelics in the desert and talk it out. I mean, maybe, I mean, maybe. But for me, not all at once, I mean, like, it's, everyone just needs to take psychedelics in the desert and talk it out. I mean, maybe, I mean, maybe. But for every model, all at once, I think,

and leave the guns at home. Yeah, I create. Well, no, I mean, but that's, I don't know, man. I mean, some people have been, you know, they've just been hardwired into this stuff. And it's like, I really don't. We are, it's like two, it's like we're really having two very different realities at once.

And you know, it is enough to make you feel crazy sometimes. It is enough to make you go, like, wait, maybe I'm the crazy person. Oh, try explaining to your relatives that you voluntarily moved to America during the end of the Trump administration, because you thought that was really going to improve your odds of a good life. I mean, what do, yeah, what do they think? What do they say about America? Well, you know, I mean, it depends, it depends who you speak to in which particular fringe

they are plugged into. I speak to some people, I have one friend in particular, I think of who lives in, he lives in that bastion of civilized society called New Zealand. And you know, my best friend from childhood moved to New Zealand like months before COVID and he was supposed to just work there for a few months and come home. It was going to be his e-pray love moment. And I swear to God every time I see him in his smug little self or in a restaurant, I want to throttle him.

I want to just try out how dare he, sorry, I had to get that. No, no, it's me. Every time I speak to this guy, he's like, yeah, so America, hey, good luck with that. He is extremely. I'm going to go to a just sinter rally. He's extremely dismissive. Then I have other people who are like, well, you know,

at least you move to one of the coasts. So that's that. And then I have, like most of the African, like most, I guess, Caucasians of the Africans of a certain age, I have some family in Australia. And they too, of course, are like, well, yeah, it's not Australia, but I guess it will do. And they're pretty mixed reactions. I mean, some people think it's wild. And then there are other people.

And perhaps I think Americans should continue to take comfort from this. There are a lot of people, particularly my younger like Nese's and nephews and so on, who continue to think that this is absolutely the coolest thing ever. You know, there is still this notion of America being the land of milk and honey and the land of plenty and that there is still an aura about it despite the insanity of the... America's greatest resource is insisting that it is the main character of the world. It is fully believing with full confidence that the entire world is a romantic comedy and it's just on its bicycle with a baguette riding down the street.

One of my wife and my biggest issues is trying to figure out, like we were like, well, we would really like to imbue our children with that unbridled, often irrational confidence and self-belief that seems to pin you a family it's uh... americans uh... would like to do that without the without the uh... attended blind spots i think it's i mean based on having a kid here through the trump years first of i mean kudos to her school for really like they really downplayed

the trump i mean they don't talk about politics at a school for you know five year-olds but uh... but you know like i think for a while they kind of held off on even putting up the new president count like the president chart you know they have when she started there you know obama was uh... was uh... still president and so um... for for a little while at least and any rate uh...

the um... but it's yeah i think you could has, I mean, Zelda has an incredible amount of self-confidence and definitely thinks she's going to take on the world and loves America. Love America. I mean, she's so patriotic sometimes, I'm like, I'm like, I think, and like she might be maggot. Like, I'm not really, it's over the top. You know, no, Zelda, like, it's like pro-American. You know, she's an American flag in her bedroom and, you know, loves like the loves American history and loves hearing about, you know, the stuff the kids learn about, obviously she doesn't have to hurt the room. It's one of the things you do best though. Hand on heart, anthem every morning. I mean,

the... Pledge of allegiance. Yeah, I don't think it's incredible. They don't do the Pledge of Allegiance. It's a monster. Thank God. Thank God. I, I, I, yeah, it's incredible. They don't do the Pledge of Allegiance. It's a monster. Thank God. No, it's very progressive as far as that stuff is concerned. But like, they definitely have it still a love of America. I feel like Allegiance at like fourth grade and never stood up again. And I remember everyone being like, I remember my mom being like how dare,

like people were so angry with me as a child. And now I look back and I'm like, how was no one encouraging that like spark of like fucking hatred of authority and rebellion against this like weird North Korean ceremony we were doing every day? Yeah. Very odd. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, it's, yes, it's crazy. I mean, but it's interesting. It's an interesting question to think about like, I mean, are you, do you Craig? I mean, you're obviously, you just got here. But are you psyched about America? Like, how are you feeling right now?

Going through your first, your first, basically your first full year here. I will say most immigrants go one direction or the other. They're either like, this place has been very abusive or they like deck themselves out as Uncle Sam. I ride, right. Well, I'm going to mess with you and be somewhere in the the middle ground, I guess. Let's put this down. I'm not planning to flee anytime soon. I also looking forward to some of the advantages allegedly that there are to moving to one of the global centers of the world when being in the global center of the world. Oh yeah, right. When being in your apartment again.

That's the other thing. Yeah, you're like, let's move. You're like, let's move to New York. There's so many museums we go see shows. Right, greater city in the world. The shopping. I can't wait for you to see Wicked. You know, the tiny apartments are totally worth it.

Because you get to spend so little time in them anyway. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I'm still bullish. I've got to tell you, I'm obviously more bullish in light of the events of November 3rd or if you prefer the soon-to-be-former presidents' concessions to the GSA yesterday. I thought you were going to say November 3rd through. No, I'm here to hang around. I think that there are still lots of things to be excited about. I think it's a particularly interesting time in American history, like that standard curse of may you living in interesting times.

It couldn't really be any more interesting. Yeah. Well, interesting is not even the right. I mean, interesting is a even the right, I mean. True, interesting is the load in trim. Interesting is like you get a good story. This is like, make it stop. Interesting is very midwestern, right?

It's like, oh, that haircut. You're so brave to wear that haircut. So I can never pull that off. Interesting is 9-11 was interesting. 9-11 every day, that's a groundhog. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, no, I mean, it's what we, it's a fucking apocalypse.

I mean, uh, yeah, sorry, go ahead, Craig, sorry. No, no, no, no, I mean, I'm, uh, you know, well, maybe I don't know, maybe I'll, uh, move to the Republic of California in 2024 and open the input office there. You know, I'm optimistic that that might still be on the cards. You know, so that sounds great. That sounds great to me. Input Big, sir. I'm, I'm, I'm might still be on the cards. You know, so that sounds great. That sounds great to me. Input big, sir. I'm a lover. I'm a believer. I'm still believe there's some some legs in this, some legs in the dream. It hasn't gone for the American, I haven't just yet. The American dream you made. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Exactly. I gotta say, I mean, one of the things I am enjoying and this maybe seems a little base, but, uh, but it's true. And it's kind of hard, I guess, one of the things I am enjoying, and this maybe seems a little base, but it's true. And it's kind of hard, I guess, to explain to people who have forever grown up in it, is just the inherent value of the dollar continues to kind of surprise. The fact that consumption is something of a national pastime and that not buying things feels like a failure of your sort of patriotism. Oh, it is. Yeah, definitely. You know, because the thing is $20 and whatever that is in South African Rand, say like $350

Rand, I don't know, they're not equivalent. Things that are still unbelievably exciting and they're silly, but it's true. It thinks like, I can buy a book, right? I can go into a bookstore with my mask on and I can buy a hardcover book for $20. And it can be like a wooden purchase. I don't think hard about it. I don't worry about it as a share of my income.

And I can just do that sort of thing. And that's just a book in South Africa. So double that. So $40. Not only is the same book double because of import duties and a reduced market, but $40 means $80 in terms of your actual buying power. And so you don't buy books on a whim. If you buy a book, it's because you really, really want it. Or someone you know wrote it and you want to support them. And that kind of like the ability to just purchase things or to try new things, or to have services that are readily available, like, I don't know, Google Smart Home Kit,

that actually works because it recognizes your location and you know, it's plugged into all of that stuff. I guess the novelty of that still hasn't worn off and it's so, it's so docky, but it's so true. Cars, cars for instance. Now, we're looking at buying a car because obviously having a car in a pandemic is somehow more appealing in New York than it used to be. And you can buy a second hand eight year old or six year old SUV for like $2,000. And that is inconceivable.

Like you could not buy the same car. Well, we have too much of everything. That's the right one. And it's so large. All everything you buy is you cannot purchase a one person sized anything. Like the other day, like I say this all, I have this phrase that always bounces around in my head, which is like, we have everything in so much of it.

My parents the other day were like, they were asking me if I needed something. I was like, no, I was like, please don't buy me anything. I was like, I have everything in four of them. Yeah, sure. We're moving right now and we cannot find people to take stuff and it feels so horrible to be like, I have three toasters and nobody wants them and they were all very expensive but they were gifts and I don't even know where we got them from, we can't return them. Should we eBay them?

But this can take so long to do it that honestly time is money and should we just leave them on the street and some of them find them? But by the way, this is a tale of, this is a tale in many ways of two Americas. We happen to be, and even, you know, like, I understand that like, we're employed, that's the difference. We're employed in New York, and in New York, and in New York, and if actually, you know, we work in an industry where, you know, we have to, to some degree, consume things. Oh, well, yeah.

And that is also part of our jobs. And I think, and I think, so, you know, and it's like, I feel, I mean, when I think about my life now versus when I thought what my life would be like when I was, you know, a teenager, or even a young adult, like, I never imagined that I would have the luxury that I have. Like I said, my parents were very blue-collar. And it's been increasingly possible to acquire and to live, to acquire many things and live in a way that's very comfortable if you are of a certain bracket in America. On the flip side, it's becoming increasingly hard to get to that bracket.

This is literally the entire, you know, platform of Bernie Sanders. That bracket is not that high on the list of brackets. I will also point out that I would, I would take my bracket not having three toasters, just having one and not being gifted them. I would take that if it meant first off that it was easier to get here, second, that the people who weren't in this bracket got health care.

And third, that it meant that the people who were brackets ahead of me, I mean, we're talking right now as people who are probably, and maybe, I mean, no offense to whoever is to the two of you, probably still considered middle to lower middle class, even if you own a home, even if you have retirement fund on the scale of Jeff Bezos on the scale of Kim Kardashian and the level of wealth in this country. Like, the level of wealth is so beyond what we're even talking about that we might laugh about these like luxuries that we do see as being excess, but the level of excess we're talking about is very different than the excess that exists really literally on my block.

On my block, there are people who are so wealthy beyond any imagination that I could ever have in safe. Well, what's funny is those people are very poor by comparison to other people further down, further up the block. And probably super aware of it and like, and I didn't feel a little hot done by about it, you know. But it's not what it, I was gonna say, I live on the same block as Donald Trump Jr.

And I think all the time that we're closer and wealth than most of the other people on our block. Okay, yeah, but Donald Trump Jr. doesn't really have any money. So, I mean, you may actually be wealthier, you may be wealthier than Donald Trump Jr. I've said that, not closer and wealth to Donald Trump Jr. doesn't really have any money. So, I mean, you may actually be wealthier, you may be wealthier than Donald Trump Jr. I'm saying I'm closer and wealth to Donald Trump Jr. then. But I also think it's important to note that like,

the US, yes, we have all this consumption and stuff because that's how you fight the terrorists. It's also a place where like I think we have this notion that like like if you're New York right like I would love to take Craig I'm sure you visited but I would love to take Craig to like the Midwest to like a Walmart because the the idea of what is a standard is I mean like we're laughing right now because right if we were going to go to a movie theater, we would be given a very large soda and they would call it a small, haha. Uh, that's like a 90s joke. But if you go to the Midwest, they don't even have a notion of the, the large we're talking

about. Like you go to a Walmart in the Midwest and it is the size of an airplane hanger. Yes, I've been in it that they sell. It has aisles that you can actually get lost in. There have been movies about people who live out of a Walmart full time because you can. Like the amount of the scale of things is so outsized now. It's so shocking. It really is. And this brings me back to one of our favorite topics. And then I think we should do our Thanksgiving stuff. But it brings me back to thinking about cyberpunk. And I think we talked about this last week, but the world that we envisioned in dystopian sci-fi has really come to pass.

And I think I said last week that if you were to show somebody from 20, 30 years ago, what's going on in reality? But that, I mean, take them to one Walmart even in York. And I think I said last week that if you were to show somebody from 20, 30 years ago, what's going on in reality? But that, I mean, take them to one Walmart even in York. No, the court, but that, it's true that these places of commerce are these cavernous sort of mini cities. And it is like, I mean, it is indicative of so many things about America, but it also, like, it is so, it is such a, it is such a wrong but it is such a bad sign that Walmart can basically move

into a town, destroy all the businesses there and then open a massive, you know, all you can eat, all goods made in China, place where you can get cheap shit. I mean, one of America's most successful cities and counties is Disney World because it is literally its own county and its own city. And it's very successful. At least that has attractions. At least there's something to do there. Walmart is just a place where you buy things.

Sometimes you need the things and a lot of times you don't, but the point is like Walmart is built literally on the thing that if you you talk to any Trumper, and they tell you, like, what the problem is, you ask them what the problem is in America. I mean, be sort of, you know, besides saying, like, libs and snowflakes or whatever, you know, they'll tell you, like, they shipped all our jobs overseas,

and immigrants are taking our jobs and all this bullshit. And it's like, yeah. And like, the Walmart, which Trump loves, and the Walmart family that undoubtedly supports Trump is like the Walton's, they've designed this exactly like you described. They're the people responsible. They're the people who did it,

and they're gonna keep doing it over and over again, they want it to happen, because they can get slave labor for pennies on the dollar and then they can sell you shit for a huge markup that still seems cheap to you and on the wheel turns which is why we need a a dragon to lay waste to the entire city just throw a beer can i do not i that was it was cragg it yeah i knocked over a uh... what i always get the pronunciation look look right

the one that you don't think it's gonna be. Look, Roy is right. No, it's not the right thing that you think is like the fancy, French, French, it, pretty nice. I thought for a long time it was, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then I had a couple of people correct me. I also learned the hard way that no one in San Francisco calls it San Fran, but you know,

there's a new lesson every day. Yeah, San Fran, like, do you need, do you really need a short net to badly that you're saying San Fran to people? I think on that, no, do you really need to shorten it so badly that you're saying San Fran to people? I think on that, no, we should talk since we have Craig here and it is the week of Thanksgiving. We should talk about, what are we talking about here, Ryan?

We're going to, instead of doing nice things, do things that we are thankful for and the theme of our Charlie Brown Thanksgiving. And so let's all discuss something for which we are thankful. Craig do you want to start? You're the you're the new American. Sure. Let's see if you know how to do it. Yeah, let's see if you really know what America's all about buddy. I just have to say I mean I really don't because last year my Thanksgiving consisted of wandering around Loh lower Manhattan and taking the statin island ferry with my wife and then riding angel fish carousels on the shoreline with absolutely no other humans in sight.

Oh, wait, I love those carousels though. They're so good. Very cute, yeah. Yeah, that was a great. It was a pretty good day. But I have never actually been to a real Thanksgiving meal. So I have I have no sense of this, but I'll tell you the thing I'm most thankful for. Can I just say that next year when we can be in person, let me take you to Thanksgiving if you don't have other plans?

Oh my God. I mean, I love overeating, over drinking, and then complaining about it. So I feel like if you have to do like a real Thanksgiving, man. Yeah, next year is going to be Hopefully we got it here. I'll be vaccinated And we'll do we want to talk about over consumption I want all the invites Once the vaccines are out there It's a Nullian feast

So all right, well, so so I mean it can it can can you even think of somebody be thankful? Oh, I'm sure I have many things to be thankful for. But I am also an irrational optimist. So aside from the obvious political ones, the thing I am most thankful for, which is very quarantined, sort of locked down friendly, is what I believe is referred to as a foster fail. I have a small texido cat named Kokomo who we originally got to foster and then after a couple of weeks,

the foster organization were like listen could you send us some pictures and some personality descriptions because you know we've had some interest at which point you absolutely cannot have her and spend the money and adopted her and so yeah it's a it's a small furry small furry shitted frankly because I mean cats only tolerate us. What's his name? Kokomo. Like the Beach Boys song. I'm so glad they didn't call her B-Loyal to your school or what. It's Beach Boys song's go. It could be worse. How what do you think what do you think do you think it's that was their technique to get you to like put your card on the table? Absolutely, that is part of the fight.

Oh, I'm sure that's part of the play. Yeah. Well, we've actually we've asked another cat from then before who turned out to be this very delightful but riddled with medical issues creature who eventually it was just it was just impractical. Not a good for that. It's just cat. Wait a second. Is this cat that you've adopted? The cat that you had to milk? That's cool. I was gonna ask you to tell the story. Thank you for Thanksgiving.

Please, stop. Great for Thanksgiving, that is exactly the same, the very same creature. Oh, can you tell the listener a little bit about that? Sure, I'll try to keep this brief. I guess, I had to be with this. The cat arrived having had a late term termination slash a hysterectomy all in one.

And so unfortunately, if you murder, you will that's true. How late term, I'm pleased to report, I don't know. I don't know, but the problem was the body, the body did not get the signal that lactation was not required. And so we wound up with a cat with milk, but no kittens. And so what you do is you pick a show at Netflix, you get a warm towel, and it's exactly

what it sounds like. You then gradually milk the cat so that it doesn't wind up with health problems. Fortunately, I would have thought that looking at cat would induce more milk, because, well, I'm not a doctor and that seems to stand to reason. Thankfully, there's not been the case and she has not required subsequent milk. Was it a rewarding bonding experience or would you never do it again? I think I had a lot of brownie points with my wife for volunteering to do the actual booking part of things. I'm trying to make Bill a bug, I think, like, God, I am the best husband that has ever existed. Suddenly, I'm feeling like it makes me see

very paternal and caring, and yeah, I'm glad I don't have to do it again, though. So that's what I'm thankful for, not having to build the cat, but also the cat. That's beautiful. Ryan, would you like to go next? I don't know if you can top that, but. I definitely can't.

to go next. I don't know if you can top that, but I definitely can't. I want to say that I am very thankful. Obviously, I'm thankful for my career and my job. And that thanks every year. I think I do this on the show, but that thanks goes to Josh for taking a chance on me and for giving me the opportunity to do all of this work. But also, I mean, I want to show up. Craig, that's what I'm doing here to do. And then, obviously, I'm thankful for my relationships and, you know, recently my health. But I would say the thing I'm most thankful for specifically this year, and not just because it's created all of my job, but technology is something I talk shit about all the time because these companies are capitalist,

fascist, corporate overlords, and I think they should be better, and they could be better. And they deserve to be better. But I only do that out of deep love, and I only get so angry and so frustrated with them and with the political landscape that has led to them being the way that they are, tech companies,

I'm talking about, because I love the concept so much. I love technology, I love progress, I love science, I really do. It's the closest to the kind of fantasy and magic that I grew up obsessed with and that I grew up consuming, infection, and dreaming about having superpowers or going to the moon or whatever. And science makes that stuff real.

And if it weren't for technology in this pandemic, my mental health would have been so much worse than it actually currently is. And it's incredible. I, you know, you hook up a new video game system and you can put a VR headset on and fucking be in a different world and have the ability to levitate things.

I can tell the air that I want the lights off and they turn off. I can tap a tiny thing on my watch and pizza appears. Like it is shocking to me, the level, I have always joked that my iPhone is essentially the magic wand from Harry Potter and literally all of us act like it is shocking to me, the level, like I have always joked that my iPhone is essentially the magic wand from Harry Potter and literally all of us act like it's frustrating to own, which is just crazy. Like we have magic wand.

They should have made it the fucking magic wand shape. So, and the more I understand about it, the more amazed I am. It doesn't get less magical, the more I understand about Spectrum or phones or internet, any of it, it just gets more remarkable. It gets more amazing, and the more I've learned how things work, you're right. Like the more shocked I am that we were able to do it and the more excited I am about it.

And you know, I can just like point my phone and then the next day, like a peloton arrives and people are teaching me how to, like that's insane. And then I can sit on a bike in the middle of my living room and have the world-class Trainer come in the best trainer in the world come in and hype me up with the best pop music in the world And I can compare how I'm doing to people around the world. I like it's hype you up not ridicule your effort Which is what I'm potentially skinned off No, they're very nice. Yeah, it hyped you up. You do the ridiculing afterward on the mirror. Exactly. Exactly.

And the fact that all of this exists and we live in a time when it has yet to destroy us is so nice. Well, well, in this little crusty bubble. We have yet, but very close, very close. We're living in this little cresting bubble of technology where we get a lot of the benefits with a lot of the like, you know, we're paying on lay away, let's say, society.

All of the bad parts will be coming later in a bill, but for the moment, it's very nice and I would be dead without it. And I'm very, very, very thankful to all of the people who work every day to make a possible. And for all the people throughout history, from like eight of love lace way up to making it possible, I really am. And I think it's important that you step back

on days like Thanksgiving and try to look at the scale of things and appreciate where we are, because it can be really easy to be resentful of the moment in history in which you live. But you should not be able to do that. And to the Scotsman who invented the telephone, and I'm sure you said something about it, the invention of the telephone earlier,

and we gloss-pasted. But I think you may now look on a great and all but on you go uh... i can't i can't hate it so you hate america what do you think you're getting what back to back world war champs how could i not be a thusia talk to trump about this let's get a word in with him

uh... well that's very that was, that was both very touching and very on brand for you. Right. Josh, what are you thankful for, Josh? And my stuff's so boring. I mean, I think I'm just a regular person with regular thankful thanks, things to be thankful for. Nothing you guys aren't, but I mean, no, I mean, I've said this before on this podcast, I've talked about it. I mean, I'm thankful. I, I, this obviously

pandemic is a nightmare and I wish it had never existed. But I am thankful that I have, because of the pandemic, I've gotten to spend a lot of time at home with my family. And, and with Zelda, who I've spent many years of Zelda's life at work, just at work, or commuting, or on a road trip going somewhere. And we've been able to do things that we haven't really been able to do consistently, and it's an amazing time,

because Zelda doesn't remember stuff that happened last year, but she's now definitely remembering things that happened like last month, or you know what I mean? Like you go, she remembers things that happened last year. It's just they're kind of out of order and not super specific. And I'm like, do you remember when I like wasn't home a lot for dinner or for bedtime or any of that stuff? And she's like, not really.

And I'm like, that's great. Because I think you should remember this stuff. Yeah. And so it's, it's been really nice even though I definitely think we're all a little stir crazy. And, you know, I think that obviously I would love for the situation to end immediately. nice even though I definitely think we're all a little stir crazy. And you know, I think that obviously I would love for the situation to end immediately. I do think, um, but I do think, yeah, I feel really thankful for that. And I'm, you know, it's just like as a person who's been going nonstop for a decade over a well over a decade, actually,

just like, you know, I'm pretty obsessed with the stuff that I do for work. It's nice to have a chance to not, you know, have like two hours sucked out of the day commuting or, you know, having to stay late at the office to like finish something, you know, because I can actually concentrate and focus and finish it at home in a reasonable amount of time. Like that stuff has been, you know, I'm pretty happy about that, but I'm also excited that there's a vaccine and ready to take it immediately, just jab it into my neck and get out there. Give me, give me all three of the leading contenders. It's not true.

Yeah, we've just not been around up to the water once. Yeah, good job. I'm like, I'm ready to go. Anyhow, so yeah, there's that. And I don't know. And also for my PS5, which I love, man. Also, we're very thankful for Tony. Thank you for Tony.

And all the Tony's out there that are tuning in every week for some reason that I can't explain I'm gonna go with meds ran out gonna go with mental illness deep troubling mental illness all right bye bye Well, that is our show for this week. We'll be back next week with more tomorrow. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best. Though I just have been told that your family is planning a Zoom Thanksgiving and they've all hit their data cap. So very unfortunate. you