Tomorrow - Episode 11: Laura June and the Men’s Rights Telecaster Backlash

Episode Date: June 19, 2015

Straight from the Topolsky master bedroom, this week’s episode of Tomorrow is draped in the spirit of Father’s Day as Josh sits down with his wife Laura June to discuss their daughter Zelda and the perils of the parental experience. The couple also talk about their TV habits, the future of movies, reptilian shapeshifters, The Misfits, Spider-Man, chipmunks, goths, gun control, and Hillary Clinton. Magnus’ inbox is sure to explode after this one.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow, I'm your host, Josh Matipulski. Today on the podcast, we're going to discuss Fatherhood, but first, a word from our sponsor. This episode of Tomorrow with Joshua Tipulski is brought to you by Nadex, binary options trading. Say you think the price of a global resource is going to go up. You can go to nadex.com and make a trade on that. You're not buying stock. You're trading on where you think the price will be by certain time. Trade the most popular financial markets with thousands of short term contracts listed

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a special human being because people aren't just their gender construct. They're also people. And this person is Laura June, my wife. Hello. I'm also the mother of your daughter. Happy Father's Day. Thank you very much. That's lovely. That's lovely to hear.

It is actually Father's Day. And this is a very special tomorrow because I'm recording it from inside my house. Your home podcast studio. From my bed. I'm in my bedroom. Yeah, my home podcast studio, my bedroom. You're dude. I'm completely nude as is Laura.

No, we're in bed, we're drinking wine. We are podcasting into Mark Mens, you know, this is Mark Marens mobile podcast setup. Who is Mark Marens? No, just kidding. Mark Marens, I'll tell you who Mark Marens is. Mark Marens is the guy, the podcast guy who just interviewed the president of the United States. Yes, I've heard about that. Did you listen to it? No, I haven't, no, it's not out yet yet it'll be out when this this podcast that you're listening to if your person who's listening to this is competing

with the mark marina episode where he interviews the president so we're on were both out on monday i think he i think he is going to know i think a lot of people if you get if you put in front of them you said okay you can listen to uh... mark maran successful and podcaster interviewing the president Barack Obama or Josh DePolsky, extremely mediocre technology journalist interviewing his wife. There's extremely mediocre wife. There's extremely mediocre wife.

I think you get a lot of people that would choose that second one. I think a lot of people. A lot of there's a lot of people out there and when you're one of them, if you're listening to this, and yes, let's talk about, let's get into it. Well, I wanted to warn everybody first that this would be... Yeah, you don't have to speak softly, by the way. Oh, well, I'm speaking softly because I do not want to wake up the baby. I should make one other stipulation about this podcast, which is Zelda, our daughter, is napping.

And she's going to determine the time limit. For her afternoon nap. So this podcast might be an hour and a half long, or it might be 40 minutes long. It might be 15. It could be 15, depending on how loud Laura speaks into the mic. Okay, anyhow, what were you gonna say? I don't know, you said you wanted to talk about something. No, you were just about to say something. That's what I was gonna say was that the time limit would be

determined by how long she sleeps. Oh, okay. All right, well, that's a great point. I was gonna say, let's talk about fatherhood, I think. we had an argument this morning. Let's talk about the argument that we had It may be okay. Yeah, yeah, she waking up. No, okay. It may be ongoing. It's hard to tell if you're still listening to this I'm still simmering if you're if you're the person who's listening to this and you're still listening I admire your tenacity and Follow through anyhow, we had an argument this morning

because I slept in a little bit because it's Father's Day. So did the Zelda. So did the Zelda. I just like referring to her as the baby. Yeah. It's a little generic and it's also, she's not really a baby anymore.

But she's not a baby anymore. Well, I occasionally say the baby. She has bad many baby like qualities though. For instance, she drinks a bottle of milk on a regular basis and she poops in her pants and she falls off the bed And she fell off the bed this morning she came into greet me. She was playing on the bed I was still in bed under the covers and Zelda You know Laura put Zelda on the bed and then Zelda made a run for the edge of the bed and and successfully launched off of the edge of the bed and and you know, I don't think she actually heard herself

She's about a foot and a half on two a foot and a half off a foot and a half off the edge of the bed. And, you know, I don't think she actually heard herself. She's all about a foot and a half onto... A foot and a half off the bed on the carpeting, which, listen, a foot and a half to Zelda is like falling out of the first story window in a house to a regular person. But it was, you know, the carpet. Yeah, on the carpet, on the carpet. And frankly, I think she might have caught herself,

but she was not letting on that she did because she started screaming and crying and she seemed like she was injured. And of course, since because I'm Jewish, I assume that her neck had been broken, her arm, both her arms had fallen off or some other horrible catastrophe. Her nose smashed and her nose bone smashed into her brain.

That's sort of thing. That's the sort of thing that I think immediately in the baby starts. And can you blame your response on your Judaism? Well, first of all, let me just say it's the Jewish, the social Judaism, not the religious Judaism, the drive that drives my insane.

Not your deeply held religious beliefs. No, my deeply held religious beliefs, the God rules. But no, it's the social Judaism that makes me a very anxious person. And listen, send the hate mail. By the way, Magnus wants me to, Magnus are Swedish producer.

Oh, happy father, state of Magnus. Yes, happy father, state of Magnus who has a beautiful daughter named B, who I presumably also fell off the bed at some point. Actually B, I was told today B put a black bean on her nose and they thought they had to go to the hospital because it was wedged so far in there. What was the, how did this terminate? They got it, they got it, she blew it out or something.

But Magnus wants to get mail from you. Magnus at tomorrowpodcast.com. So if you think that my comments about Jewish people are offensive, please send the hate mail to Magnus Henrichsen, who's Swedish and absolutely not Jewish. Magnus at tomorrowpodcast.com. Anyhow, so she fell off the bed and I was very upset and scared.

And frankly, I was a little angry at Laura because I felt like it was her responsibility given that she put her on the bed and that she wasn't under the cover. At your request, you did ask, you said put her on the bed. Well, I was like put her on the bed because I want to see how quickly she can fall off the edge of it, put her on the bed because I want to see if she could take a half gain or off the foot of it. You know, but I said I blamed Laura for it and I guess I don't know if I yelled at her.

I think I said some strongly worded, I did some strongly worded chastising. Yes. And then Lauren, I got into an argument about it. Well, I felt that it was not a productive comment. I mean, I couldn't really rewind time and make her have not fallen off the bed. That's true.

I guess now when you put it that way, I guess I didn't really think of it. It didn't really seem totally constructive when she was still crying to, you know, to let me know that you thought it was my fault. There's no question that I'm a, I'm a blamer. I'm a blamer. I'll blame somebody. For everything. I try to blame somebody for everything if I can help it, you know, like even things that are completely unrelated to anything a person can have. I suppose it was constructive if it made you feel better did make me feel great actually I know I just felt you know I don't know listen I don't know what one my emotions I

can see this was a wrong word do you do you still think it was my fault I don't think we can rule you out I don't think you could be ruled out no I think that there's a lot like the situation. Yeah. There are three people involved in the situation. Okay. Penny. Zelda is the person who flew off the bed, right? But she's not really like a full agent in this process.

I wouldn't say that she was. The other two people in the room- I'm not like making a decision. The other two people in the room equally failed to stop her from doing it. Well, I was under the covers. I think I was sort of... I don't understand. The covers aren't made of lead. No, but you can't move as quickly as you can. I would say that we both watched her fall off the back.

You got to do vey on there. I guess I expected you to grab her before I did. I guess this is what happened. Right. And I expected her to not fall off the back. Not just... And anyway, it was a bad way to start Father's Day for everybody, I think. Now, let me tell you something. We recently moved to the country. And I'm looking at right now out of the window,

we have in our bedroom, it's almost all windows on two of the walls. So it's actually all window on two of the walls. There is a tiny chipmunk running through a garden in front of our bedroom. Wait, you can see him right now. He's behind some, oh, he went into a hole. OK, this is the kind of groundbreaking futuristic talk

that you expect from tomorrow podcast, right, listener. Which is that we know nothing about nature and we're really, oh, there he is right there. Do you want to? Well, again, can we get him on the mic here for a comment? Anyhow, earlier today, we saw a deer and a a fawn which is a baby deer walking through our yard Which to a person who has grown up in the city and is like a huge nerd like they were like avoiding yeah They were avoiding but to a huge computer nerd like myself

It to me it's like the most magical thing in the world to see animals like just in the wild doing their own thing I think it's very strange and yeah, so Laura and none of the animals here are really afraid of us They're not the deer are not exactly I wouldn't say they walk up to you or anything. Birds in the squirrels don't even leave the feeder when I walk out there. That's right. Oh, I should say that Laura feeds a lot of birds and squirrels outside of our kitchen. But not any raccoons anymore. Raccoons, we toyed with the idea of feeding a family of raccoons, but it seemed like an ill-advised plan. But we also have, we also bought this,

can I talk about the Adirondack chair? Laura bought, Laura bought an Adirondack, a tiny Adirondack chair that you put a corn cob on, and a squirrel can sit in the chair basically like a human being and eat the corn, which is. And they use it, I mean, they go through two or three cops a day. And also the, and also the, they are going through a lot of cops. And also the air guy through a lot of cops.

And also the chipmunks use it as well. Oh, yes. Yeah, the chipmunks begin to use it. Anyhow, so Laura, let me just talk about Laura a little bit. Now, a lot of you may or may not know this, but Laura was one of the features that there's at the verge, one of the founding members of the verge. Yes, that's right.

I dragged her into a nerve shattering hell ride of building a new site in a new company. And now, and now you. I know we worked at Engage, as well. We're also working at Engage, which actually is a funny story. I think the reason Laura started writing for Engage, it was because Engage was. It was Paul.

Paul's fault, I think, right? I don't, I think we were so understaffed and Gadget was so woefully understaffed one weekend that I was running the site by myself and I was like I really need somebody to hit some posts I was like Laura. I'm just gonna make you an account and can you just hit a couple of these like router I got a couple of routers that need to be covered There was like a a PNP A PMP sorry a personal media player right there some eye-river products that needed to be covered. People don't remember the kind of useless shit that was written about it and get it. I remember because I very recently, maybe within the last year, I was looking for a specific

post that another editor and our friend, Lenny, had written. Joseph Flatley. It had a very good turn of phrase and a, you know, useless, meaningless 200 word post. What was it? I can't remember now, but I was looking for it and I ended up, you know, reminiscing and I looked through all of my posts. I mean, there's thousands of them. Did you write thousands?

Yeah. You know who wrote a lot was Darren Murphy. Darren Murphy was our writer who, and he just wrote a book apparently. Darren Murphy was a writer of ours, and I'm sure some of you who listen to this who have read and gadget will know his name. He was like a machine. He would write, I mean, he could do like 20 or 30 stories in a day.

No problem. I'm not saying they were all grammatically sound, but there were. I believe he still holds the Guinness book. He is, right, he is the Guinness book of world records, a record for most blog posts. Evan. I assume someone like maybe like the chipmunk just came in my oh there's another one. I mean maybe just no one has applied to beat like it's possible like maybe Jason Kotkey or something

would beat Darren right. Kotkey would like to know. He's been gone for 20 years. How many posts have you done? Can you give us a tally? Maybe you can win the Guinness World Record anyhow, but and gadget. Yeah, so anyway. Yeah, so anyhow That's Laura, but Laura started writing on the internet. She had she was a a writer English an English major Yes, I mean in when I was in 1996 She read a lot of a lot of goth fanfic before fanfic existed She wrote a lot of fanfic about Robert's myth of the cure. I wasn't really that into the cure, but... Nobody was really that into the cure. But anyhow, but then Laura started writing at Engadget

she helped create the verge and now she's in a claimed, frankly more acclaimed than ever, freelance writer. I don't know. You're highly acclaimed. That's pleasure. Highly acclaimed. She just wrote, you may have seen a story that she wrote for the hairpin detailing some of her favorite artists who play telecasters, which created a bit of a firestorm, bit of a controversy amongst the guitar playing community because it was all women. Not just all women, I think it was,

some suggest, well most of the suggestions were like spring steam and I don't know those other fuckers. Let's have fun. Yeah. Like, dude, too rock, dude, just dude. But also just, I think the implication was that maybe I hadn't really just somehow hadn't come across Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, the guys who commented, I mean, assume they're guys, they might have been women.

But like, hello. The people who commented were like, how could you leave out Bruce Springsteen or do you know who Bruce Springsteen is? Maybe check out Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, maybe listen to Hello Jimmy Page. Check out, but there were other suggestions for a female, like heart and like whatever.

It's a good point. Mine were pretty, heart, they played telecasters. I don't recall that. I don't know. But I will say this, my list was not really like, these are the five best.

It was like literally like, here are six songs I like. Yeah, good bye. Courtney Bernat was in there. Courtney Bernat. Courtney Bernat, who is a new artist, PJ Harvey, not a new artist. Courtney Bernat, new artist, hailing from Australia, I believe.

She's Australian. Which was kind of a road, it was kind of a stumbling block for me in her music because I generally like, she's a thick accent. Yeah, and I feel like a lot of the time when people sing their accents disappear. Yeah. And hers is like very, because she's sort of talk-singing a lot.

Mm-hmm. So at first I was like, does this, is this grading? I can't tell. It's grading, but then it becomes pleasurable. Then it becomes like really engineering. It's a lot like SNM when you think about it. You know, at first you're like, do I want that clamped on me? And then the next thing you know, you're like, yes, I do want it clamped on.

I think we can all agree we've been there many times. But we're going to see her live. There's a little chipmunk. Oh, his mouth is full of food. Look at that. There's a lot of seeds. They seem to have a network of tunnels underneath our house, not unlike the way that the reptilian shape-shifters who control the earth have a series of tunnels

underneath the surface of the planet where they're able to transport from one continent to another very quickly. What I find interesting about the chipmunks, is that maybe I just never observed it before, because I kind of grew up in the country, or the suburbs, or whatever, and there were definitely chipmunks around.

Chipmunks do a lot more like, they appear to be thinking about like the big topics a lot. Like I look out the window a lot and see one like sitting on a fence or on the tree. And he just appears to be like watching the sunset or. When I first started getting warm here, we noticed that one of the chipmunks, sorry I'm just adjusting in bed here to be more comfortable.

One of the chipmunks seemed to in the early morning hours would get on a rock and just sort of look out into the forest as if he were thinking, he or she were thinking about the big picture, what does it all mean? Why am I here? Did we create God or did God create us that kind of stuff right yeah probably thinking about the reptilian shape shifters detailed and David I thrilling encyclopedic the biggest secret if you read the book I've seen it talk about a lot it sounds like a book you read it I had it in in in in the early part of the 2000s I was touring with a band called Weird War I was playing drums with them.

And Michelle, the guitar player, who was also in several other great bands, had that book with us in the tour bus. Torch, it was in a bus, it was a van. She was, I think she'd read it. She was very into it. And I became very into it because she was telling me about

what was going on in the book. And I mean, I could give you the basic. I referenced it a lot because it's the zaniest. It's like the ultimate conspiracy theory. This is like a cross as party lines, correct? It's illuminati. I mean, it's not what do you mean a cross as party lines? I mean, like the reptiles are like...

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. The reptiles shape-shedders. I mean, there's a part of the book that talks about how the reptilian shape-shifters, which are like all the presidents, all the kings and queens, all of the people who rule the world, that they're all reptile, alien reptile shapeshifters, and that Bill Clinton and George Bush,

senior would be at these black magic rituals, Illuminati, black magic. There's a part that I thought was very interesting where they do, they said that there's a lot of black sex magic that's used by the reptiles involving children, where they're using them sexually, somehow, to store their darkest secrets, which you know, I think sounds totally logical to me. I think if you were a reptile shapeshifter, we're better, but to store your secrets than the mind of a child that you're having sex

with. And so, so, and David Ike wrote this book, it's huge. And he, I think he was like a football, I mean, soccer commentator. Oh, really? That's his original profession. And then I guess he- I'd love to know what his other works are. And then he cracked open. I think, you know, things like, I would, and I don't know that I don't know for sure, but I think I'm guessing something like the even bigger secret or the biggest secret to secrets, you know, revealed or something like that. But anyhow, so the idea is that there's a, I mean, this is like the ultimate, it takes all of the kind of like cosmic trigger stuff, if anybody knows cosmic trigger, you know,

and behold a pale horse, these are classic conspiracy books. And you know, the kind of info war stuff that I'm sure people are used to on the internet Alex Jones do you feel like we've outgrown some of this I was just talking to some of my friends recently and I think it was like very X around the X-Files there was a lot of conspiracy stuff I was just talking to my friends about this I feel like I was saying like oh you know occasionally I say like maybe two years ago I was like you know I'm gonna get really back into like goth stuff and then like you know, I'm gonna get really back into like, goth stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, and then like, you know, that stuff has also really come, come back around.

I feel like the 90s ish goth. Well, the, the, the, the visuals of it. I don't know if the, the spirit of the goth movement is back. That's right. The spirit is not back. I mean, Trent Rezner is making, uh, is making scores for Oscar winning. If I was winning Oscar, you know,

where, who's the spiritual? But, know. Where, who's the spiritual, here's the spiritual owner of the Goth vibe. Oh. Who's the person who best embodies? Is it Robert Smith? Is it Morrissey? I mean, because there's, like, Morrissey's music, I mean,

there's definitely, there's definitely, there's definitely, there's definitely, there's definitely, there's definitely, there's definitely, there's definitely, there's definitely, there's definitely, there's definitely, there's all, but the vibe, more is these vibe in the 80s and 90s is definitely

like the Susan in the Banshee. I was in the, the foundation. The Smith. Those British bands are like the founders. Sure, but who would be in there? Who would be in there? I mean, Susan in the Banshee is, you have obviously the cure. Those are very popular.

What are the more obscure? I mean, then you've got the more industrial side of it, where it's like Front II, IV II, and Knights or ebb and Ministry obviously or what was what was his name? Oh, no, no, well the misfits but the misfits are pre-goth I think Danzig is core god Danzig is core god Misfits are I mean the misfits are just great rock and roll as far as I'm concerned in fact You know, they may be my favorite rock and roll band. I ain't no god damn son of a bitch. You better think about it, baby. That's a lyric. That's a lyric in a misfit song. No, but what of what my question was this? We

know that they're they're remaking the ex files. They are remaking the ex files with a slightly older or not remaking, but they're rebooting slightly older, but no less beautiful David Ducavney and Jillian Anderson. In fact fact some way I think their age their age has been nothing but kind of them My question is this there was a point at the in the 90s where not just I mean like remember on Fox They also had like the alien autopsy things. Yeah, I think and I think all of this yes my question is this has the internet There's you know like you said you you brought up info wars, which made me think of this. Yeah There became this point when the internet became ubiquitous where it was like

everything's a fucking conspiracy, right? So now it's kind of like taken for granted. Yeah. So does that sort of, that caused us to be like, are we ever gonna really believe aliens are out there again? Like I want to believe. Of course you do.

I mean, the poster is the poster is right above our bed. Like when it is. Just kidding. I mean, maybe I'm just kidding. You believed in aliens when X files was on? Oh yeah, absolutely. I was also like 12 years old. I don't think there's any reason to not believe in aliens. I think the question is whether the aliens are doing the smart experiments on human beings and human babies. The older I've gotten the more likely they've seemed to like be but you know the less likely it seemed that there is. You would think with the amount of information. You would think with the amount of information

that's on the internet, we would have gathered more proof right of the aliens, but doesn't seem like we have any more proof now. We do have encyclopedic and crazy conspiracy sites. I mean, the biggest secret is like a pamphlet by comparison to the amount of information about conspiracies that are on the internet right but like that's the problem like the biggest secret seems really all these things seem very quaint now you know what i think has happened if i can get a little bit deep and philosophical for a moment i think that as we have seen

the real conspiracies exposed in our world um you know for instance are the president and his government lying about weapons of mass destruction to start a war with Saddam Hussein, which is a real thing that happened, that is provable. I think as we've started to see the exposure of those types of conspiracies, where you've seen massive corruption, Abu Ghraib,

all of these things in a torture, the things that are that seem totally fantastic but are very real. I think that we've become less interested in the fent, the truly fantastic conspiracies of vampires or aliens or whatever, and more interested in the conspiracies of our actual governments, which are, which are, which are very real. I think that I was thinking about this when we were watching Game of Thrones, which is, I thought, what, why, you thought, why is this the most popular show

ever? It's like about dragons. But really, it's not about dragons. What it's actually about is a really specific type of power struggle. I think it really explains why. So many people are outraged. I was just talking to Maria Bustiose about this. The outrage that's come out of like the portrayal of women

and then in the show and the fact that they seem to be there just to like torture and rape and kill off. I feel like that's the point of every character. But like, that's also like, but that is also like a very historically accurate. I mean, that is the way that history has worked for, you know, through power struggles with, you know, kings and queens and rappers. Right. No, no, I mean, obviously, I just feel like Game of Thrones isn't that different from watching Wolf Hall. Wolf Hall is an excellent show. And I have to say, I recommend to everybody to watch Wolf Hall, which is based chipmunks

back, which is based on the Hillary Mantell books, Bringing Up the Bodies and Wolf Hall. And that will make you feel, when I watch Wolf Hall, maybe I've talked about this in the podcast before, maybe I haven't, it made me feel that the other TV that I was watching was so pedestrian and juvenile by comparison. When you watch the performances and listen to the dialogue of Wolf Hall, it's so sophisticated and so nuanced, it makes all other TV feel like you're watching Sesame Street. Yeah, and also it's like a six-part mini series. It's very short.

Six hours long, and it's based on two books, which aren't massive books, but they're probably like 500 books. They're large books. They're formidable. And it could be opposite. I think that the readership based of Wolf Holland Game of Thrones has probably has a lot of crossover. But I will say that at the point.

I think there's a certain then because the then diagram or those crossover, but I'm not sure how large the crossover point is. And I'm the then, I'm the crossover. You're right in the then. I'm right in the then but I'm not sure how large the cross-over point is. And I'm the Venn. I'm the crossover. You're right in the Venn. You're in the Venn. I'm in the first two game of Thrones books. What's the part of the Venn diagram call where they meet?

Don't ask me this because now I'm going to look stupid. No, I don't know either. It's the the the the the the part that gets colored in dark. The the the the blend the blend. It's like the it's like the apex that the the, the, the, the blend, the blend. It's like the, it's like the A-packs, the, the, the, the Crocs. You basically ask a math question. The Crocs of the, the Crocs of the, the Crocs of the

Venn, I don't know what it is. My least favorite part of math. Like, I'm talking about. The zenith of the, of the zenith of the Venn diagram. Go on. Do you always interrupt everyone this way? I think that, I think that my list, no, no, you're not kidding. And I'm going to answer that.

I think we can edit this part out of you. No, no, no, we usually leave it. I want everybody to see what I have to put up with every day. No, I think that I'm interrupting you more than most people because we talk a lot. And I think I have known for interrupting, though. OK. My conversation style, generally speaking,

is one of a continuous, I believe in continuous interruption as a conversation style. I actually, I have a problem with people who have a problem with interruptions because I feel like the best conversations are ones where there are a lot of interruptions. Personally speaking. I'm not anti-interruption, but I think it's sometimes, sometimes I lose my train of thought when I get into a transfer. Yeah, what were you trying to say? Yeah, I don't remember. I was trying to come up with the Xenith, what the

most. Oh, we were trying my vent diagrams. Right. You were saying you were going to say that my least favorite part of like elementary mathematics was the part where they taught you how to make like the different charts and bar graphs and stuff. And I think that Venn diagrams maybe are in that general education area. Is that why you don't know the... That's why I was trying to explain why I don't know. Do you think that the Goth wave peaked with the matrix?

Do you think that was the end of Goth? That's 1990. No, I think that was the beginning of New Goth, where you get the, what are those bands, like the band that redid Blue Monday? Oh, orgy. Orgy, yeah, that was, I mean, where the new, it was like New Goth

where it was like there was like a real anime flare. Oh, it's kind of like what begat Lincoln Park. Yes, Lincoln Park watered down in mainstreamed, to a really, and what was the other band? That's interesting. I mean, I could talk about this endlessly. The way that the link part is definitely like the, you know, like the way that like Pearl Jen

be got creed, be got like whatever. I think that these are more. That's interesting to think about actually as the evolution of Goth when you see, there is a turning point where Lincoln Park's definitely and had definitely inherited Evan Essence would be another one. I would say that inherited the Goth vibe. Yes.

The bands get a lot less cool. Everything gets progressively less cool, yeah. How much do you think that the Matrix was responsible for that? Didn't have a lot of Goth me doing that. I would be really interesting to look at the Matrix soundtrack. It's not, there's a lot of techno on it, I think.

There's some. Right. Well, because I think that techno actually inherited a lot of the like mall goths from the 90s. Like, no, I mean, I personally knew most of them were like, actually a few years younger than me. They were like my brother's age. But there definitely were like kids who were like goth

through middle school and high school. And then like the rave thing happened. And that was where they found their school and high school and then like the rave thing happened and that was where they found their home. Well, there is definitely the rave. But they're going to run and it works. We're talking about the past right now. We're talking about yesterday, which I often do on the tomorrow podcast, but you know, there is it is interesting that that rave culture definitely absorbed a lot of like, let's

say, hippie culture and goth culture. But then it got into that weird middling place in the early 2000s post 9-11 really where you know nobody wanted a party and hot topic was selling increasingly larger pants but dark but dark colored pants like Jango was done and then you had these dark very dark large pants and it was like kind of this weird combination of you know it was sort of like, what's the Japanese thing where the girl dressed up like princesses?

It really is, it really is the movement from the 60s to the 70s, where if anyone tells a narrative of the 60s to the 70s, it's like 60s, hippie love culture, 70s disco, cocaine drugs, everyone's upset. Yeah, things got dark. And it turns into the 80s. And then the 80s are even darker still.

I think that that was like the 90s, like around the time I was like a very young teenager. What were the 90s, the 60s? Yeah, right. Because remember like the opening of the 90s was like, like, delight was back. Like everyone was like, we're gonna be hippies, weird, like whatever.

And Brooklyn was president. And Brooklyn was president. He was like a sax playing cool president. Yeah, and then he was like, and then the economy was amazing. And Brooklyn was president. He was a sax playing cool president. Yeah, and then the economy was amazing. And then Rafe started happening. Rafe culture got imported. Yeah. And that seemed like it was like a big party, a happy party.

And then it was like, oh, everyone's on drugs, bad, 911. Yeah, and then 911. And then that took us into a very dark, release a decade of total darkness. And this is kind of related to what I was saying to you the other day, which has always been, not always been, about two years ago, I came up with the theory that the 2000 started in 1998.

And I would say, if I had to put my finger on culturally or musically, I would put it on the, if I had to pick one record that said the 90s are over, the 2000s have started. It is this is hardcore by pulp. Very dark record, Jarvis Cocker. It's super depressing. Yeah, it's super depressing. Addicted to cocaine and I think it's going through, I believe so and going through a bad

break up. We should take a break and when we come back, we're going to talk not just about yesterday but tomorrow because I feel like if we don't, I'm not really living up to the promise of this podcast. So we'll be back in a moment. I want to talk to you about igloo. igloo is an internet you'll actually like. You'll be able to use apps like file sharing, calendars, social news feeds, and task management.

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but no more. Trade from your mobile, tablet, or PC. Go to nadex.com. That's n-a-d-e-x.com. Futures options and swaps trading involve risk and may not be appropriate for all investors. We're back with Laura June, a claimed writer, author of a heartbreaking work of staggering genius and my wife. Is it a heartbreaking work of staggering genius? It is, yes.

I sometimes think it's like a staggering work of heartbreaking genius. It's his first... I don't know if it was his actual first book, but it was definitely the first book that I read. First one that mattered. I believe that it is his first book. Anyhow, so... I'm not a fan but we were talking about goth well I hope he's not listening to this I'm a fan of some of his other work oh plenty of it but I

did I vaguers if you're listening and you probably are please accept my apologies on behalf of Laura for those rude rude remarks about your work your excellent work it is excellent I don know, I've even read it. So, you know what, I've been busy God, I don't have time to read large or even medium-sized books. Like for instance, I gave up on Game of Thrones. How many books did you read? I read the first two and I started the third.

I was about a quarter of the way through the third. And no, but the third book is also, I actually might have gotten to be about half way through. The third book is so slow, it's incredible. And I remember, actually Magnus, my Swedish producer. He's read all of them. I don't know if he's read all of them, but he's a big fan of the books. And he was like, he really was encouraging me to, oh, I'm going to get some club soda in my mouth.

He was really encouraging me to soldier on with the book because there was a big payoff. And I think it's the book that ends with spoiler alert for people who haven't seen the show or read any of the books. I think it ends with the red wedding. I could be wrong. I could be wrong, but I think the third book is the book that ends with the red wedding. So the the the Game of Thrones books, I started reading them because you did. And basically because I think, you know, whatever we could say about each other, I read more than you do. I have more time.

I don't like the implications of whatever we can say. So generally, you do read a lot more than me. When you read something, you know, no, honey, you read a lot more books than me. Yes. So generally, other things. So generally, when you recommend something to me, I'm like, oh, you know, it's not necessarily, like I started reading, basically, I hadn't really read any comics until I met you. Yeah.

And then you were like, read this, this, this, and then I read all of that. I got you hooked on comics. So what happened? What was the first comic? Do you remember the first comic that I suggested to you? I think the first one I read was from Hell. Really? Yeah.

I think so. I recommended that to you. Yeah. Yes, that's possible. You sure it wasn't the League of Extradinary Gentlemen or? No, because I've never read that. Oh, that's your loss, because it's amazing. I definitely, and then I was surprised to see-

It wasn't the Dark Knight Returns. I've read the Dark Knight Returns. It was in the dark night returns. I've read the dark night returns. It wasn't secret wars. Secret wars is confusing. I read your one. I've never read secret wars, but I read the most confusing one I read was the Marvel one where everything fucks up and just resets and is destroyed. And then that is that is crisis on infinite earth. Can I just say something? So secret wars and crisis on infinite earths have a lot in common, but I mean, they have many things in common but A secret wars. I mean I started reading secret wars in the in the in the 80s when it came out I think it was 1985

Because I was reading spider-man comic books and the spider-man story intersected with secret wars in a way that was so Insanely significant and anybody who's ever read spider-man Particularly people who grew up in the 80s and read Spider-Man won't remember this, when Spider-Man got a new suit, which is the Venom's, we became the Venom's suit, which is the black, it looks so awesome. It was the black suit with the white, big white spider on it.

Yeah, I remember. And I've seen that. And he gets the suit during Secret Wars, which is like, you know, it's an alien symbiote, symbiote, symbiote. I don't know how you pronounce that correctly, but one of those is the Australian pronunciation, one of them is the English pronunciation, but the British pronunciation, I mean.

I don't like Spider-Man. All right, we're gonna have to, I mean, the Spider-Man of the comics, I mean, I think for kids, Spider-Man was really awesome because, yeah, no, I got that. Because Spider-Man is like, he's kind of a kid and he has like, you know, his abilities are, his stories really seems like

of all the superhero seems kind of plausible. He was like, oh, he was bit by a radioactive spider and he got spider abilities. And you know, like, yeah, I guess I can see that happening. Unlike Superman, who was born on an alien planet and got shot to the earth, which seems a little bit harder to conceal. I'm reading Wonder Woman right now, so I've been thinking about this a lot. Yeah, Wonder Woman is from a planet called.

She's basically from, she's ancient Greek. Is it like Amazon or something? Yeah, but it's her planet called. Is it a planet? It's not a planet. It's like basically, I mean, it's another, it is another planet, I guess, in there, in there, whatever.

Like, the one I'm reading now is called Down to Earth. Yeah. And I can't, I don't know if this conversation, sorry for interrupting you. I don't know if this is a good conversation or not. I'm enjoying it, but it's very weird. Keep going. Well, I was, I was, I was starting to talk about

Game of Thrones, but then somehow we got to like, meet reading comic books because of you. That's my fault. You were saying that you, because I recommend a game of thrones to you. I don't know if you recommended it, but you saying that you, because I recommend a game of thrones to you. I don't know if you recommended it, but you were reading it and I felt the competing need to like have,

like I wanted to talk to you about it. This is before the show existed. Right. And someone had told you to read the books. And actually, let me tell you who told me. Was it Gavin? Gavin Purcell, who's the producer of the tonight show, performerly producer of late night,

who's also a huge nerd. He was at G4 before that working on a tack of the show. And he's a really nerdy guy, super smart and awesome. You know, I should have him on the podcast. He would be an interesting guest. I bet he would love to talk to you about it. Well, I don't know if he does podcasts, but I'm going to ask him now. But Gavin Purcell, I think, I can't remember the circumstances. I don't know where we had the conversation, but I remember him strongly recommending the books. And I distinctly, the part I remember was saying,

like, are there dragons in it? And his response, because I think, I don't know how far in he was, he was like, not like the way you would expect. And I think that has held true for many years. Yeah, definitely. But so what happened for me was Game of Thrones, I think this is the only experience of my life

that this has happened, where, because obviously books are like the fodder for a lot of TV shows now, historically lots of movies. And normally I read a book and then I watch all the movie versions, because even though I said I don't like that day beggars book, I do like most things I read. I'm pretty good at picking. So I was reading the second and third Game of Thrones book, and I was enjoying it, thought it was great when the show started. And then I remember there was a point halfway through the first season where I thought, oh,

this is good enough for me. I'm good enough with the TV show. I don't need to continue reading. Well, I think what one thing- And I think that's never happened to me before. Well, I think one thing that I learned, and I think a lot of people have learned from Game of Thrones, at least this is the way I feel, is that the film version of a book now seems so lacking and so... Because it's so short. So tiny and so hard to pull off. Right. Like now when I see,

when I read a really good book and I think about what it should be, like Watchmen is a great example, which is a graphic novel, but it's really a book. I mean, it's a graphic novel and a book in many ways, but in graphic novels are books. But Watchmen was made into a very fine two and a half hour, I mean, it was a fair, a mediocre, two and a half hour movie or three hour movie,

depending on the cut you watch. But all I can think is that if you were able to give the game of Thrones treatment, let's just say two seasons or three seasons of the watchman as a show on HBO, can you imagine how good and detailed and meaningful that story would be versus, I mean don't deviate from the book, I mean do the book be true to the book as much as possible and you know and still make a compelling story. I just think that what when Game of Thrones what really is stark and clear about it is that No pun intended on the stark stuff, but what it's clear is You can make a really good you can tell the same story

Almost the same story in a in a ten part or a twelve part season of a show as you can tell the same story, almost the same story in a 10 part or a 12 part season of a show as you can in a thousand page novel. Yes, and I think actually, I think that the first show that made me sort of start to roll this around in my head was Dexter, because Dexter was a show that was at the very beginning was really good. Fantastic first few seconds. And I watched it basically because I was a fan of Michael Seahaw from the beginning. Because you're sexually obsessed with Michael Seahaw. I was not sexually attracted to Michael Seahaw though he is really really handsome in that shirt. He's a good looking guy in a weird way.

I mean I didn't think he was good looking when I first saw him and then the more, maybe this is a testament to his ability as an actor. He's a fantastic actor. He's an amazing actor, but he became more attractive as I watched him perform. But Dexter is based on a sort of popular novel, a series of novels. The first season is about the first book. It's like, it's like, it's maybe a 300 page book. It's not a great book. I would put it in the realm of like the day.

Is it darkly dreaming dexter? I think so. Yeah, I would. All the books have names that have like 3Ds, right? I would say it's more on the realm of like pulpy. It's not like literary fiction. Are they all 3D names? Yes, I think so.

Really? I don't know. I only ever read the first book. Because I remember watching it, and I think this was also really the first show we were like, we're going to just download everything and watch it. Like I remember specifically. Leg I think this was also really the first show We were like we're gonna just download everything and watch it like I remember Legally of course I remember specifically like staying awake very late like three in the morning We'd watch like five of them. No, I think we pirated it because I didn't have HB. I remember the first time that That was really the first time I thought oh maybe movies are like

the midway art form. Maybe the real art form is actually serial talent. Let me tell you something. I think this is true. And this actually is something that I think is really important as we move into whatever future state of entertainment that we're moving into. Like two hours isn't enough time to do anything. The film is, the film is, I mean, there's definitely a type of story that works for film, you

know, and I think things written for film are totally workable, totally enjoyable. You know, but I think you even see it in modern filmmakers. Like Christopher Nolan keeps making these three hour movies. I think the reason is not because he, you know, has so much to say that he needs to be packed into three hours. It's that he's trying to cram in far more than three hours into three hours.

Yeah, and it's really hard to tell a story in three hours. No, I mean, I think the TV, I think, well, let's, let's start, I mean, we can't call TV anymore because it's nobody, I mean, you watch it on TV, but it's not television the way that we've sort of traditionally thought of it. But I think that those types of serialized narratives broken up over, you know, 8, 10, 12, 24 episodes,

whatever it is, I think that's the future of storytelling in a visual medium. I mean, I don't think that movies, I think movies are a midway point. I do think that there's something that's so rich and so engaging, particularly about shows like, you know, when you look at...

When they're good. When they're good, obviously like transparent. We watch transparent, you know, once we saw the first pilot episode and then once we got the, once it was released, you watch all of them straight through and it's so good. I mean, Game of Thrones, if I could, I mean, I think TV, I think the biggest problem right now is that we were talking about the last season of Mad Men. Yes. And the last season of Mad Men, I think it seemed really bad to me for the first, I mean, the last half of the last season. Yes. And the last season of Mad Men, I think, it seemed really bad to me for the first, I mean,

the last half of the last season. Yes. It seemed pretty bad to me except until, like, maybe the last three episodes or two episodes. Yeah. Hell like the worst. I mean, even then, even then, I wasn't sure that those were that great. It felt like it was aware of its own end, which is not. And it seemed to be spinning, its wheels.

But what I think is that had I, if somebody said, the six episodes are done here, they are, the eight episodes are done, or have anywhere that there were. You watched them in the next few days. And I watched them straight through. The eight episodes are done or have anywhere that there were. And I watched them in the next few days. And I watched them straight through. I think that it would have been a totally different experience. And I think that a lot of people have the time and inclination to binge watch something.

And I think that the binge watching is preferable. But I also think that the, the, the, the, a being allowed to tell a story that continues from piece to piece, uninterrupted, really, I mean, uninterrupted except for that delay between... It's simply a different experience. We've talked about this, which is that whatever the previous season to the last season of Mad Men was, we watched, you know, Weekend, Week Out, every week for an hour, and we were like this connoissex. I think it was the fifth season. And then we re-watched everything this year before the final, whatever, four, six episodes

ran. And we, you know, both agreed like, oh, that season's actually really good. Yeah, I just think that we're running up against these sort of old notions of how you're supposed to get entertainment or be entertained. And the reality is that the new ways are much better and much more suited to, we have way more options to watch. They're much more suited to, I think, the modern mindset. I mean, I think that, you know, I mean, there's just something about, I mean, we're an increasingly immersive culture. I think that there's something, everything that we're doing is increasingly

immersive. It's increasingly, I mean, you look at VR. But let's talk about some, like, we were just talking about this last night. I was just, where are we? I was just thinking, well, when we were talking about this, I was thinking, well, what as a movie works? And the last movie we saw in a theater was Mad Max. Now, this is a story that doesn't have a lot of nuance. Mad Max works as a film.

I mean, like, if I had to say, what is the story of Mad Max? I could tell you in five minutes. Maybe three sentences. That's a pretty complicated story in some ways. I mean, actually, I can think of easier, I mean, there are more complicated stories that are easier to describe in three sentences than Mad Max. Right, but it would all be context, right? I mean, how would you, okay, tell me the plot of Mad Max in like three sentences or less? So there's been like an apocalyptic event and the remaining people have sort of sucked

up, the remaining people are divided into two groups basically, the people who rule and the peasants and slaves. And the people who rule have a weirdly vague, undescribed access to all of the water and all of the resources. This is way more than three senses right now. Okay, no, it is. I think I can do this.

It's all that. I can do this better. You're giving me context. I'm in an elevator. We're going down. You've got 60 seconds. What are you telling me about the plot of map access? No, you tell me.

Oh, in an apocalyptic wasteland, a man is on the run from, a man is on the run from some villains. We don't know who they are or what they want. And his only instinct in this, in this hellish world that he lives in is to survive until he finds a reason for existing in the savior of other people. That's true. He meets a woman. Well women are a great reason to live. What's the David Lynch description of all of his movies? David Lynch has the greatest, so David Lynch I've seen, I believe on the tonight show twice, to talk about, first to talk about lost highway and second to talk about mall Holland Drive. Those movies go back to back for him, I believe.

I can be wrong, I might have been something in between. But when he went on to talk about lost highway, these are the greatest, I think the greatest description from a director of his films in the most amazing venue to give this description. David Lynch was asked by Jay Leno, what is the, so what's, it lost highway? Can you tell us what this movie is about?

Right. And David Lynch says, so what's, it lost highway. Can you tell us what this movie is about? Right. And David Lynch says it's about a man in trouble. And then they wrote, and then they wrote, that's all he says about it. And then they wrote the clip. Right. Which is the clip of Robert Blake at a party

talking to the main character played by, the area played by Bill Pullman, which is this, the scene, if you haven't seen lost highway, please go and watch it immediately. It has one, I'm not going to ruin it anymore. Look at this chipmunk is trying to eat one of these flowers here. This is incredible. The chipmunks are really active. And then he went on, and then he went on to talk about Mahal and Drive. And Jay Leno says, can you tell us what Mahal and Drive is what's this

move film about? And he says, it's about a woman in trouble. And then they rolled the clip. And that's it. And I think that's the perfect description of movies. You could say Madden Actions about a man and woman in trouble. Right. It's about men and women in trouble. That's pretty much every movie. Right. But last night, and every book, the last time we were talking about two, what I would say, this is where I come up against the idea that like movies as an art form are not here to stay. Then I think of like my two, what I think of the two best movies that are just currently brewing in my head, which are Zodiac, David Fincher and Silence of the Lams, which I think are, you know, a behind. Both of them. Yeah, they're both excellent

films, both about serial killers. I mean, I definitely, sure, I could have watched a series that David Fincher directed about Zodiac that lasted 12 hours. Well, I'll give you true detective. But I think it's a beautiful movie. But I think true detective season one, I mean, I know people have a problem with the depiction of female characters in it, that notwithstanding, that critique notwithstanding,

and that's not my, I don't offer that criticism of the show, it is what it is. Here, a misogynist. I'm a terrible misogynist and obviously part of the patriarchy and I must be brought down. But true detective to me is like silence to the lambs over 10 episodes or eight episodes or eight, eight, eight, eight,

oh, I don't know. Eight hours, nine hours. I think I thought that, I thought it, I think in some ways it's, it delivers more than what the silence is. Oh my God. It's a possibility to deliver. Let's move on.

I do want to talk about the election. Okay. Let's talk about it. Wow. Really shifting gears. Well, I read a serial killers to the upcoming presidential election, which I guess do have some. I read a quote from Kim Gordon.

Kim Gordon of the Bansonic Youth. Sonic Youth. Who has recently written a memoir of his time in Sonic youth Yes, and hurt the deterioration of her marriage sure to thirst and more his name is absurd when you say it out loud Yes, is that a real name thirst and more I believe is his real name? He said what is he a blue blood or something he comes from from money. I don't know where I first and more didn't just appear in the world with that name I don't know I don't know Genealogy I should look it up. I should do its family tree. Let's get into that first and more.

Anyway, I read a quote from her that I think perfectly sums up my feeling about, and this has to do with gender. When you're a woman and people ask you anything, if you ever have occasion to comment on the affairs of the world as Kim Gordon does, right? She's not a politician, but she's a famous person. So she was in an interview and someone said, how do you feel about Hillary Clinton? And I don't know what the exact quote was, but her basic response was, all I can tell you is I will never vote for a Republican. Okay, so then she went on to talk about, you know, other possible candidates. So I guess my thing, and I think this is a gender thing, I think

the problem is that when you're a woman, people assume that you're going to be really gong-ho for Hillary Clinton. And I'm feeling very conflicted about that gonghonus, right? Like there are things about her that I like. That's like, that's like, yeah, assumption. But there are largely like nostalgia, which are, she reminds me of a, to get back to the 90s. She reminds me of a very good, you know, Bill Clinton was the first person I've invited for.

But doesn't that, but doesn't that, isn't that very much like what the Sarah Palin argument was? I mean, in some ways that Oma Shoe was making, that her party was making, you know, it's like, how can you be a woman and not vote for Sarah Palin, which is insane because her policies and ideas and... Right, but I feel very... Everything about her was, everything about her and everything about her continues to be like bankrupt 100%.

And so the idea that just because she's a woman that you would vote for her. Something about Hillary Clinton, I'm not saying she's, she's as far away from Sarah Palin as one can get. She is the poor opposite. And I don't just mean in beliefs. I mean, she is an intelligent accomplished woman who has earned everything that she has,

and unlike Sarah Palin. But yeah, but I think, like my main thing is like I'm starting to already sense this, this early, which is, and maybe she won't be the candidate, but it seems like she will be. She's going to be the candidate. I mean, who else is there for the Democrats?

Also, I do think. And I voted for her in the primary before you voted against Obama I did I've see this thing already I see so many you know writers and commentators and thinkers just assuming like that it's every like all women are going to vote for her because it's like it's like a thing it's like solidarity or something president I want a woman to be president, I do. You want the right woman though? Right. I mean, what about Bernie Sanders?

I mean, I may vote for him in the primary. I think, what the hell was I thinking? So I'm about Hillary, Rodham Clinton. Oh fuck. Is she the right woman? No, I remember. And this sounds kind of like overly precious or whatever, but I remember when No, I remember. And this sounds kind of like overly precious or whatever, but I remember when the school

shooting happened at Newton in Massachusetts. Newtown. Newtown, sorry. It's Newton is a different place. Oh, yes. Okay. I'm thinking of I'm mixing up two events. No big deal.

No big deal. I'm not the I'm not a genre of being expert. Magnus will fix that. When the school shooting happened, I remember thinking, and I may have tweeted about it, that I would never vote for another candidate who didn't have a really tough stance on gun control, which I think is the most important issue that we can do something about. It's certainly an issue of the moment. I'm not going to get a presidential church shooting right. I'm not going to get like a presidential candidate who's really awesome

about the environment because like that's just not going to happen. I mean I I mean it's it's a well-known fact or at least it's a fairly well known fact that that many many Americans I believe it might be the majority are are in favor of stronger gun control. And it's pretty obvious to me the justifications for rampant gun ownership and people are going to hate me for saying this and I was tweeting about it the other day and I got a lot of angry tweets back. I just think that other developed nations, other forward thinking nations, European countries, many of them, Japan, I mean, Asian countries, I mean, so many,

there's too many to list here. They don't let their citizenry have guns the way we do, and there are fewer people dying. There are fewer people being murdered. There are fewer people dying from gun related incidents, and there are way fewer mass murders. And because of it, they don't have to have the death penalty either well i mean that's another point is that we're behind on on our thinking

around the death penalty uh... very death focus society we know america's obsessed with death where we love action we love cowboys we love death i mean and and all of our all of our entertainment reflects that you know but i i i i think we should you know i'd be happy to relegate that to entertainment uh... and move on in real life to things that aren't death focused, you know, because I do think that we are, but I think also like the shooting that just occurred

exposes, and I think this actually happened during Obama's campaign, and actually Sarah Palin, we talked about earlier today, I think exposed a part of America that is a very sad Relic which is rate the racist America and increasingly like we've seen in these in these shootings in Killings all over the place in America cops killing people and now people you know sort of randomly shooting It's not fucking white people. Well white people white people got to be stopped I don't know how many times I have to say this but crazy white dude white white men are The enemy for the most part and we've got to we've got to put a stop to them

It's the same people comments about my article about Bruce speaking as a white man I mean white men need to chill the fuck out. There's no question like dudes just need to chill You know this guy Dylan Roof or whatever his name is, was like the worst kind of white dude. He was extremely not chill. Well, he was racist and awful. And, and, and, and you know, but the, you know, what's really sad about it is like there's just tremendous amount of ignorance in this country

that still, that, you know, to this day persists and, and like we can't shake it. And it's gonna take a long time to shake it. And I think that, you know, the one thing I'll say about having a female president, whoever she is, and this even goes for Sarah Payland, although like the idea of her as president is the most frightening thing that I can conjure for this country. Luckily, we don't have to worry about that ever.

You know, it takes us one step further into a place of development and... Right. So is that in an of itself like an argument? I think there's an argument to be to say this we have to break up. We have to you know we have to elect the best person. We have to elect the best person. I'm the answer to the patriarchy but we have to do away with outmoded ways of thinking and outmoded ways of doing things and I think one of those things is this assumption that all CEOs and all presidents are white old white guys. Right. Because that actually doesn't yield the best results.

What yields the best results, time and time again, is diversity and different ways of thinking. Like different viewpoints are valuable because they give people an opportunity to really exercise their brains and to think different ways. And when you start to think about things differently, you start to do things differently. And that leads to progress. Like that is what progress is. You is. That is what progressiveness is. What I think is most troubling about the Republican Party is, I would love for there to be a Republican candidate that represented progressive thinking with other conservative assets in the mix.

You don't have- Right. Pretty opposed to their higher face. I get the, you know, I get like socially progressive, financially conservative, or conservative about government spending, but very progressive about social issues. You know, that isn't a Republican candidate that exists, and unfortunately for the Republicans, like I think that they are totally out of step with the progress of society as a whole. And I'm not saying that Democrats can be just as bad

as Republicans, there are plenty of bad ones. And it's unfair in this country that we only get two choices. We have to choose this party or that party. You know, a binary option is not really that appealing. I mean, I spent most of my early 20s voting for Green Party candidates. Right, you spent, you know.

You right, you threw away your votes on people like Ralph Nader. Yeah actually in many ways in many ways in many was health Republican party by throwing away a vote that otherwise would have gone to a Democrat so thanks a lot for I mean you're probably partially responsible for George Bush ever being elected who do you vote for that election I voted for Al Gore Al Gore would have been a great president and I'm sad great I don't know good have been a great president, and I'm sad. Great, I don't know.

Good, definitely. It'd have been an interesting president. Let's put it down. Interesting. He definitely cares about the environment, which makes him better than most of us. I'm going to get up. Again, I just want to say this is a very all-the-hate male that you're thinking about. It's the environment, a really fun environment.

The environment, Al Gore, Republicans, Democrats, men, women, you know. How about Black and White? How about vegetarianism, is that? Well, vegetarianism, of course, is the way forward for the world. And as everybody knows, I think Kaki actually just wrote something about this. I was reading this Wonder Woman comic

where she talks about her vegetarianism. She's sort of like, I didn't know this about Wonder Woman, but she's like very outspoken about her vegetarianism. She's like this ambassador from her planet to the US. Is that true? Yeah. Well, that makes wonder why women, way more awesome. No, she's like super into it and she's like, talks about how you can't, you know, I mean,

it's really crazy. I had no idea. You can't what? I knew that she was political to start with because she's like, a feminist. That's her thing. But I didn't realize that she was also very, I mean, she's like politically anti-violent and politically anti-war. And yet she does do a lot of violence.

She does do a lot of violence to criminals and villains. Yeah. You can't deny that. Anyhow, so how are you going to find the answer to your father's day? You go on, you have to send the hate mail to Magnus at tomorrowpodcast.com. He'll be. This is a good gag. He'll be parsing all of the all of the email that you send

to me. And of course, feel free to be as graphic as you'd like, particularly about Magnus. You could also be graphic about me if you're interested. What were you saying? How am I going to ask you how you were going to spend the rest of your father's day? I don't know. I mean, I think I'll drink. I'm going to drink at some point. We had a glass of a little bit of glass of wine, but and I got to say I liked it. And I think I'll have more alcohol. I got a beautiful gift from Zelda. I faced timed with my dad and my mom. They got to see Zelda. And now I don't know. I just want to relax. I just want to relax. I want to take it easy. I'm going to go to the grocery

store. I want to go to the grocery store. That's something that I think is going to be a lot of fun for Father's Day. I enjoy, I love going to the grocery store. I think it's like one of the most enjoyable, just person activities. Well, we lived in Brooklyn for 15 years or I mean, I live there for 15 years. Right. So we didn't, we would go to Trader Joe's or hold like the Whole Foods in Guana. It's not pleasurable. The Whole Foods is pretty pleasurable. Whole Foods in Guana. But that was like the last six months we lived there. If you live in a congested city, going to the grocery store is not fun. It's hard to The whole food is pretty plentiful. Whole food didn't go on. But that was like the last six months we lived there. If you live in a congested city, going to the grocery store is not fun.

It's hard to drive there if you drive, you know, then it's usually packed, especially in New York. Going to the grocery store out here in the country is a dream. It really is, man. It's a joy. So yeah, we'll go to the grocery store. That'll be good. I don't know.

I'm a man of simple needs and simple tastes. I mean, probably not that simple when you think about it. But I'm not like a guy who has a lot of hobbies. I know it's really odd. My hobby is my work. Yeah. I mean, what I do is, this is... I don't think this thing, you don't have hobbies.

It's like, you don't actually like activities. I was thinking about this with vacationing. Like, we're both really bad at vacationing in really different ways. I love touristing and you don't. Both of us have this inability to detach from our—I'm really bad at traveling generally because I don't like not being at home. When I travel, I was thinking about when we went to Paris, you know, three or four

years ago. One of the first things I always think about when I think about Paris, you know, beyond like, oh, the museums or we went to the cemetery where Jormorson is buried, I, the one of the first things that comes up in my mind is that I read the interpreter of maladies and the hours there, which is like, sounds like a really shitty way to spend time in Paris. I didn't know you had that much time to read You were sick. I did get I did horrible food poisoning in Paris and I was Food poisoning. I was going to go to the restaurant for like two days. It's kind of a bummer. I was literally The most sickest I've ever been for two days. I definitely could have like

Just gone other places myself But instead I just went to a bookstore and bought books and sat there and read them. And that's partially because I'm so bad at traveling that I need to feel like grounded. Sure. So I travel with my personal... I don't like activities. I don't like going on. I don't like it.

If somebody were like, if somebody was like, we're going to hike today, I'd say, yeah, that sounds like it sucks. I don't want to do that. But if I just started walking somewhere and I ended up walking for several hours, I don't know that I would think that that sucked. But I don't like to, I don't like, I think I have a really scheduled life, like I have a lot of meetings, I have news moves at a certain pace, at a certain time.

And so I like to, in my downtime, I like to spend time doing nothing. I like the idea of no time limit. I like the idea of this is just gonna go on until it's over and I'm not gonna think about the beginning of the movie. Right, like speaking of things we argue about. I'm gonna play video game to know. Which is that like I think we do this thing a lot

when we're like home together, which is usually just on the weekends, because you know the baby wakes up and so she. But the guy just said I almost just fell off the bed. She. So I said I leave back. That would be a really great way to end this. Yeah, a really good way. What were you saying? You know, she wakes up at whatever

eight or nine o'clock and then, you know, she has to eat. And then like, so basically, her sleeping and eating schedule determines my day every day, whether I'm with her or whether she's with you or her Annie or whatever. Yeah. I'm aware of that schedule in my head all the time. Yes. And I feel like, so when we get up and I feed her, then I'm like, what do you want to do today? Because we have to do this in the time before she naps or in the time after. And you're like a very slow, like you're not ready to just like get up, have a cup of coffee and leave.

And I'm like, I gotta go. And I can. Because I got two hours before she starts to be ready to go to sleep. I can but I hate it I mean if I had it if I had it my way I just like get up and go my schedule would be that I'm up very late Very late and I get up a little bit later in the day like ten or ten or even eleven o'clock Although I hate getting up later the day now. I can't play in the day because the whole day is gone It is over. No, I agree But I would prefer to get up at like I guess nine or ten maybe it's weird

She's been our daughter has been sleeping and progressively later recently not every day But some days like today she didn't wake up till 9.45 in the morning. It's too late It is it's like it throws everything. No, the whole day is gone and by the time you know it's it's like three o'clock Right, like what time you know it? It's 3.35, which is the time right now Anyhow, so I think this is a good place to leave it because she's still sleeping as far as we know. Yeah. Has that been on like that the whole time?

Yep. Oh, so this will be, that'll be, I don't know if that'll be the background. Anyhow, that's a good place to leave it because we've got to plan our activities for the rest of the day and she'll have to wake up at some point. And I'm feeling like I really want some more wine. We don't have any.

Well, you could go get some. I have to get some for Father's Day. Okay, well, that's the podcast for this week. Laura, thank you for joining me. Oh, anytime. Really? Yeah. Okay, good. I think this worked out.

I think it went really well. I don't know that a people... It's kind of like marriage counseling. I don't know the people who listen to it is kind of who is sort of like marriage counseling. I don't know the people who listen to it will enjoy it, but I certainly enjoy it. And really that's all that matters in life. I enjoy being disliked.

It doesn't matter to me. I don't think it really just like you. I think if anything, I'm going to be the villain here as usual in this relationship. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's tomorrow for this week. I'll be back next week with more. I want to thank our sponsor igloo ig. Igloo is internet you'll actually like.

Go try today for free to see what it would be like to have the tools you need to work better together at igloosoftware.com slash tomorrow. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best, although I've just gotten off the phone with your family and the very best isn't how I would describe what they would have done. and the very best is in how I would describe how they would come. you