Tomorrow - Episode 13: Katie Drummond and T.C. Sottek Enjoy Some Wine

Episode Date: July 6, 2015

Josh is joined by his former podcasting comrades Katie Drummond (Deputy Editor at Bloomberg Business) and T.C. Sottek (Senior News Editor for The Verge) for a good old-fashioned Winecast. After catching up a bit — it turns out Katie got married and T.C. is dabbling with Soylent — the discussion turns to contemporary topics such as the Confederate flag, Hulk Hogan vs. Gawker, and Space X, as well as more lightweight issues like the return of PC gaming, food bloggers, and the hottest new celebrity couple — Crangie. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow on your host, Josh, Looks Polsky. Today on the podcast, we're going to discuss the Gilmore Girls, Hulk Hogan, and Hogan's heroes. But first, a word from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Canary, a new approach to home security. Canary is a complete home security system packed into a single device. Unlike old systems, Canary is built to learn. Whenever it detects something out of the ordinary in your home, Canary sends alerts with HD

video and audio straight to your phone. That way you can keep an eye on your kids or your pets when you're stuck at work. Find out the oven was left on before it's too late or stop burglars with a swipe of a finger. Pick up your canary today when you visit www.meatcanary.com slash Topolsky TOPOLSKY. That's www.meatcanary.com slash Topolsky. You know that we have great advertisers

that support the show and keep it free for you guys. One of the reasons why advertisers love tomorrow is that they know the show has amazing listeners. Right now we have a survey that I'd like you to take to help us learn more about our audience. Just go to podsurvey.com slash Joshua. Survey will only take five minutes. We're gonna ask you some questions about yourself

and what you like to buy, but it's completely anonymous. And your answers will help us find advertisers that are matched to you, your interests, and this show. When you're finished, you can enter a monthly drawing to win a $100 Amazon gift card. So that's sort of like free money, if you win. Even if you've taken a podcast listener survey before, I'd like to ask you to take ours and help support the show. Don't forget that you have a chance to win that $100 gift card. Once again, that's pod survey.com slash Joshua. Pod survey, PODSURVY.com slash Joshua. Thanks for helping us to find the best advertisers so that we can keep this show free. My guests today are two very special people, two people I have a long history with, two people who I drink wine with, and have drank wine with and will drink wine with in the future, and am now drinking wine with.

Those two people are Katie Drummond and T.C. Sotic, otherwise known as T.C. Sotek. Yeah, since the third grade. This and T.C. Sotic, otherwise known as T.C. Sotek. Yeah, since the third grade. I love T.C. In case anyone was confused. That's no way. Who's talking? I do get confused for a woman on the internet all the time. Do you? Yeah.

If I can even have you have a you have a you have a you have a your voice is sultry is a judge and feminine to it degree. Yeah. Now before we hold on. now, I'm just going to say, if you don't know, some people may not know who Katie and TCR. Most people. Most people don't know. We work together at the at the verge. Hi mom. TZ is actually wearing a verge t-shirt right now, which is really cool. TZ still at the verge. Katie Drummond is now working with me at Bloomberg.com. Michael Bloomberg.com. It's just Bloomberg.com. It's just Bloomberg dot com. It's just Bloomberg dot com. Uh, and, uh, but anyhow, we worked together for a long time for many years and we, we did,

uh, at the tail end of, of, of, of my verge casts, we were doing some wine casts where we would have wine. It was the verge cast death spiral. Yeah, it was definitely, yeah, it was definitely the, the, the end of it was pretty brutal. Definitely, like we're bored of doing regular verge cast. Let's have wide and just talk about whatever happens by now. The nice thing is on tomorrow, which is the podcast you're listening to and the podcasts you guys are on.

We can talk about whatever we want. I mean, can we talk about yesterday? Yeah, actually that happens a lot, but I prefer to talk about right now, the song by Van Halen. Not familiar. Come on. I prefer to talk about right now the song by Van Halen Not familiar Come on Just get from Canada doesn't mean you don't know great hits from Van Halen Don't know it.

Van Halen Magnus is going to insert He'll insert some Van Halen right now into the into the edit So when I listen later I'll know So, so, uh, TC is an editor, the senior, what is your official title of the verge? Senior news editor. Senior news editor at the verge, which means that you are responsible for the day loose of, uh, uh, daily news, of daily news. Yeah. Of what is flooding in hurting the cats hurting, you heard cats. That's fucked up. Heard, you know, it's not cool. You know, Katie is a deputy editor at Bloomberg.

She runs our reports team and is a stern but fair boss. Thank you for not, for not, I can tell. At least the people who have made it have said that. They were crying when they said it, but I think it's okay. So let's talk. Let's catch up. What's the latest? I'm on that toilet now.

What the fuck is up with you? Yeah, so you asked you, T.C. spent the morning drinking silent and the afternoon drinking beer. I did. Why all of a sudden are you soil-ending? It's very easy to say. It's just like a rapid weight loss regimen.

But is it sustainable in the long term? Are you serious? Yeah, it's fine. You would do this for the next 20 years. No, no, it's 20 years. I'm going to actually, I'm going to try to do this for the next 20 years 20 years I'm gonna try to do it for a year. You're gonna do this for a year. Yeah, are you blogging it? Do you have a blog at time? I blog it. You could put it on the verge. I yeah, TC soilin.com I will probably be asked to especially after this conversation

Definitely will now. I probably read that we already did a silent thing with Chris igloo Yeah, we did a review but Chris did it for a month. I'm doing it for a year because That's pretty Like Paul Miller and Chris. You're like Paul Miller. Yeah, this is cool going on the silent for a year. I went I went on So I let for a year True, but it's true like like you said you wanted to go out and have it what diet? Yeah, you're Cali calories. Yeah, it's extremely easy to do that with soy milk. Yeah, but it's like it's even easier to do with food.

You just don't taste many flavors. It's not limited flavor profile. You just, you just figure out like, he's just like, okay, I, this is the kind of salad I'm gonna have. Try and eat this many strips of beyond meat. That it, that it, that it, that it, that it, that it,

and then at night what I did was I left a bunch of room for alcohol. So I ate a little bit during the day and I was like, I need like, I need like, I need six to 800 calories for alcohol. Anyhow, so this is the first time we've done a wine cast and I think over a year well over a year. Yeah, the last time we were in the in the verge studios, box studios and And what have I missed catch me up T.C. Yeah, just been chilling with my cat. Okay work from homeline. You only have one cat

I only have one which is his or her name used to have to what happened went through a little Separation what does that mean means I means my ex took my cat. Oh, you broke it up. You broke it up The cats broke up. What is your cat's name that lives with you Ripley? What was the other cat's name named after a sagorny Weaver? I'm more just a movie alien. That's weird because there's a cat in that movie. There is a cat. What's the other cats name? Rory do you think they're who I named after Rory Gilmore? Yes, do you watch the Gilmore girls? Oh I'm a huge fan of the four years I don't know team Jess or Dean

What I mean team nobody worries best boyfriend is books. Yeah. No. Yeah. Roy should be focusing on herself, not on a bunch of studies. No, she should be focusing on jazz. But Jess, Jess is obviously the first of all. I'm not. I'm not. Is the kind of guy who would be part of Gammergate.

So, fuck Dean. I agree. Excuse me. No, Dean, no, honestly, Dean was a weirdly aggro, especially in the Wax's early episode. He was very controlling. He's like picking fights with people. Yeah.

Well, he was like a kid who didn't really know how to be in a relationship. And he all let you say that I'm a big fan of Gilmore Girls is no question. Oh, it's amazing. And I actually moved the town I moved to, which I'm not going to name, but the town I moved to, part of the charm of it was

that it kind of reminded me of Stars Hollow. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, because I'm pretty. That sounds great. A catchy little in that you run. Do you have a diner that you sit at the car ride? With your wife and child.

Yes, to both of us. Yes, to both of those questions. Do you have a Luke? I think I'm Luke I'm Luke. I'm the gruff Did you participate in a 24 hour dance contest? With your neighbors Have you watched all the HD more girls HD? No, it's I'm pre HD pre HD How does he change go more girl. Yeah, first off, let's just feel like you're in the way for you HD. I want to put this thing in reverse for a second. Okay. Gilmore girls is available now in Netflix in HD. Okay. It's a whole new world. It's a whole new

vision of stars haul up. Okay. And you need to check it out. I can't believe it. It's really good. I mean, it's really good. Laura's not interested in the Gilmore girls. Why? Probably because it stinks. But what I'm guessing. Cause it's not it's fun. It's I always I remember it's a connection. It's a confection. It's a confection. I loved it. When I was growing up, I always aspired to that mother daughter, rapport. Mm hmm. You know, yeah, which I did not have. No, I don't really have a reason, but I really wanted it. Scripted in the TV show.

But it seemed so awesome. They were BFFs. Yeah, which is not a realistic depiction of a mother daughter relationship. You can't know. It was actually probably really unhealthy for me. I think it was unhealthy for everybody. It's ever Rory and Laura.

Yeah. You know, it's your favorite side character and Gilmore girls. Yes. He really, really like Jess. Is he a side character though? No, Jess was like, I don't care. I don't care.

He was my favorite. Who's the guy, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the, who's the I don't remember his name. It's like Charles or Mr. Charles. Somebody like that. Something like that. I like him.

And anyway, because I feel like the guy is a dick. I do, because I feel like someone who says he is a shickity or misrepresent his personality. It was always like giving people shit. Like you have a cleaner, you have a cleaner, you have a cleaner, your garbage. Right, that guy, yeah, I don't know. I don't, I don't even remember him.

Katie, now, Katie, we got caught up on TC. Katie. Boring. I know right? Seriously who cares about your cat? No, I'm kidding your cat sounds wonderful. Well, TC is a very angry look on his face right now I don't really love cats. I'm allergic to them first off second. I think they're unpredictable away I think they're unpredictable in a way that is you don't have a cat. I have two cats. Okay, that's upsetting They're unpredictable in a way that is you don't have a cat. I have two cats. Okay, that's upsetting. They're unpredictable in a way that is very scary. Oh, no, my cats are very predictable. Yeah, my cats are predictable. They're very chill. Are you seeing them fat little boys? I see them like a catnip Uh, no, they're not being on catnip. They like treats and wet food

Yeah, and licking Licking these balls basically. Yeah, it's all he does all day. They lick each other's bombs. What? See, this is what I'm talking about, people. They're very chill. No, that's not chill. They lie in bed. The raw meat, that's highly erotic.

They lie in bed and slip at us. To a cat, not to be, but to a cat, I've said it. No, it's not. It's just cleaning. It's just practical. Oh, really? Get down to business. Well, Tise just said, and it's very crass.

I hate to repeat it, but he's just said that his cat licks his, and I quote, balls every day, every day. Still has them, which is my fault all day. Oh, does he really? Yeah, he does. That's terrible. You're contributing to a horrible, horrible cat problem in the yard. Yeah, all the cats that run through my house are all pregnant. Yeah, they're preggers. Thanks to your cat. He does howl a lot. Katie catches up. Now you've gotten married.

Yeah, I had a big ear. Can you share? Sure. I like that everything seems like when, I think it's even in the old podcast, it seems like under-derased, you're having the conversation like, you don't want to talk about this,

but since you feel like obligated or forced to talk about it, you will. Any else, tell me about your big ear. I had a big ear. I quit my job without having another job. At the verge. Yeah, I did. I was unemployed for several months.

It was very difficult for me. You got married during this month. I got married. I got married. You went on a honeymoon. I got married on a friend's roof, which was great. And those friends are actually getting married this weekend. Congratulations.

So the romance. The romance circle has come full circle. Do I know these people? They're journalists, but I don't think you know them. I started a very exciting new job at a company called Bloomberg. .com. Well, the company is called Bloomberg. But you are also working on the website, Bloomberg.com.

I work on the .com side, which is owned by Mike Bloomberg in case you're wondering. Case you're wondering where that name came from. Yeah, Mike, I don't know if anyone's familiar. Mike Bloomberg. Former mayor of New York owns bloomberg.com. And, uh, and bloomberg LP. Bloomberg LP, which is the parent company of bloomberg.com. Is this an app?

No, for bloom. This is, we're required by law to say this. Uh, so I started a new job. It's been wonderful. And I recently actually bought an apartment. That's true. And bought an apartment. Yes.

Which was shocking even for me. Oh, I'm still I still can't believe someone is going to give me a more. TC is high five and Katie Katie has never high five before. So that was very strange. Yeah, I was under duress. Have you were high five somebody before? No. Right. That was the had five somebody before? No. That was the first time it's ever happened.

I hate, I'm honored. I hate that. I hate you. I hate I hate I'm vibing. I get it. It's the best. You see a big fan. So if you're on Soilin, you know, I've got to have it all the time.

What else did I do this year? If you're all messed up on Soilin, you're running are running through the streets of New York high five and everybody can get your hands on. What else did you do this year? I mean, that was a lot. You know, I work a lot, hang out with my husband. Yeah. Oh, let's talk about your husband.

Okay. Carol, let's get the journalist Carl Franzen. Not to be confused with Jonathan Franzen. Did I say that right? Yeah, his name is Carl. Author of Corrections. So author of the Corrections. Those are the. Carl's, Carl, one of Carl's goals in life

is that people will ask Jonathan if he's related to Carl instead of the other way around. Yeah, I could see. That's like my goal of having a museum when people's, when my mother was like, my mother was like, can can can we throw out the stuff in the basement, like, like, video game magazines from 1993? I'm like, no, I'm like, no, that it's gonna go

to the Josh Topolsky Museum. Oh boy. I don't think it's actually gonna happen. Probably not. But I think it's like we should just hold on to it, you never know. What's your parents' house? Yeah, what do they, they don't care.

They don't pass the basement. Am I my mom? No, I leave my mom is like, all bent out of shape that like she need to get into the basement to do something, which is not the case It's like so what leave the box down there. You know what I need that for my exam. I need that game pro from 93 Just leave it alone. I was over your legacy. Yes Carl is doing great he

Just saw Carl he is doing great. Did you wonder? Sam a bar I've got a man date. him? A bar. They had a mandate. Oh, yeah. I've got a mandate to join you one of these days. That's a dirt. Oh, really? What is that? Dition dirt. Do you? Well Carl and I used to be, you know, work cohorts. Yeah. Let me let me backtrack. Carl was, Carl was the other news out of there. Like you and Carl were the two like kind of main news out of there. Like you and Carl were the two, like kind of main news out there.

Have you seen minority report? It was like me and him in the pool. Yeah, we're like in the pool, the precogs. Yeah, you're one of the precogs. It was me and Carl and we saw all the news. Yeah. And we gave it to precogs though to all the news. Yeah, that's it.

Yeah. In this scene, this metaphor, in this extended metaphor. They see the news before it happens Yeah, well, and then they give it to Tom Cruise and Tom Cruise writes it up, you know Except Tom Cruise is a news writer It works in the verse. You know what Tom Cruise is initial Just literally can I just say something? That's the funniest thing I've ever heard.

It's the hardest I've ever laughed. We've done how many episodes of Tomorrow? Have we done Magnus? This is episode 13. Lucky 13. That's the hardest I've ever laughed. And maybe genuinely in my life, maybe the hardest I've ever laughed.

That was a bad thing. That was really fun. You were looking at the elbow. You were a little short. You were a little short. I am a little short. 5'10". You're actually average.

Aggressively average on the height. 5'10 is like exactly average. I think it is. Anyhow, so you and Carl had a drink. I mean, who is the drinker? What person? I apologize. I've said a very high bar for tomorrow.

We've had a lot of great podcasts. This one is, what if the great's, okay? Yeah, no, I knew that as soon as you emailed me, I was like, he sees out of guests. Really? No, I actually, I- He's bringing in the B team. It's a holiday long weekend.

Let's just get drunk, it's totally fine. That's a good point. No, but actually what I've been planning on doing a wine cast, I've been waiting for the moment, and I thought like, actually, I'll tell you how this came about. I was talking to Joe Wise and Thal who we work with. Yes, we do. And I was like, you should come on the podcast as we can.

He's like, oh, no, I got a flat agree through something. And I was like, wait a second, I have an amazing podcast companion sitting right across from me, Katie Drummond. Except Josh wasn't at work when this was happening. He was hip chatting me from somewhere else. Oh, you guys are on a hip chat? No, I was at work. I guess I did.

He popped into my head. Oh, okay, and then you just waited. Later on, I said, Katie, we should do a wine cast. No, you didn't, that's not what you said. You said, hey, what are you doing tomorrow at six? And I was like, oh no, what should I say? Because I should seem like I'm gonna be busy at work because he's my boss. And I was like, oh no, what should I say? Because I should seem like I'm going to be busy at work because he's my boss.

And I was like, I don't know, working. Nice. And then he was like, we should do a wine cast. And I was like, oh, fine. All right, very good. We got that. He knows that I don't have plans. Very good.

We got that strained out. Yeah. You're on hip chat. Come on. Oh, oops, sorry. Spilled the beans. Look, F Slack, all right. F Slack is the best.

F it. Listen, I was in IRC fanboy. Slot the hipchatter, like the same thing. Listen, they are like the same thing. There's only one thing that's important, it's a communication, okay? Yeah. Okay, it doesn't matter.

Can you type words into a box and hit an intro and hit the other person? There's a matter of the bells and whistles. It doesn't matter how, what kind of get up in the intro? Get a raise, okay? It's okay. It matters is that you're able to communicate

with people that are working. It's like you're a little mad. No, I don't care. I just don't care. I just don't give a shit. I have no religion about what chat client we use. I'm not like a guy who gets religion. Oh, you're an atheist.

That's right. He's a chat client atheist. I'm an atheist in real life too. IRL as they call it. Typical. I think we covered that in an earlier verge cast. I don't think it is. Well, you know, maybe it was your recoverate.

Now that we've got a whole new audience to speak to people who love it. People who like the verge cast and thought, maybe I'd have to say on a new podcast. They've checked out by now. No, they're like long gone. Those people are long gone. Believe me, I mean, anybody's listening right now. I'm very impressed. If you're listening right now, you're an amazing person and also possibly a masochist, Not really sure. And with that, I think it's time for

break. On that note, we should talk about our sponsor, Canary. I want to talk about Canary for a second. An amazing new home security device. Gah! What is that? It's a Canary sound. It's not the way Canary sounds. That was like a crow or a raven. Yeah, but you're watching like a hawk with Canary.

Ah! I don't think Canary's made that sound. At any rate, Canary is a complete home security system packed into a single device that you control from your Android phone or tablet. I have an Android phone. Or iPhone. I have an iPhone. I control from your Android phone or tablet. I have an Android phone. Or iPhone. I have an iPhone.

I also have an Android phone right now. I also have an iPhone. How many phones do you have? I have at least three on me at the moment. Oh my God. It's just six inches tall and sits on your bookshelf so it's perfect for any house or apartment. And Canary has no extra components and sets up in minutes. Just plug it in, connect to the internet.

Six inches is a very good size. So what does it do? It can livestream video of what's happening in your home anytime, anywhere and whenever canary detect something unusual, like some sort of weird motion or a loud sound or some sort of surprise celebration happening, you'll get alerts with HD video and audio on your phone. Canary's pack with features like 1080p HD video. It's got the best quality on the market. High quality microphone has motion detection as a 90 decibel siren, which is very loud. Very ear piercingly loud. I actually took Canary on the tonight show, I showed it to Jimmy Fallon and a live audience

who were shocked and amazed by the very, very loud alarm on the device. You know, I think if you want to scare somebody out of your home, whether or not they are supposed to be there or not supposed to be there, Canary could be a great option. And it's automatic night vision. You can see perfectly in total darkness,

kind of like a, like you have a mutant power, which is cool. If you've got a catch bin Laden in your apartment. Yeah, maybe, maybe. If Canary were around when bin Laden was being hunted, we might have been caught. Wrap this up faster. 2001. Exactly.

And it's got temperature, humidity, and air quality sensors, which to me is actually very cool because I'm always wondering what the temperature is in Zelda's bedroom, like constantly worrying about it because you don't want it to be too hot and you want it to be too cold. So this is very helpful. And all of these sensors are available in one device. People across the country are using Canary to catch burglars, which I mean, hopefully you

won't have to do with your Canary, but it's much safer than a gun. It's, I mean, Canary is safer than a gun. That's a proven fact. Check in on your family or pets and feel safe while they're away. So you can be one of the first to get smart home security. You can buy your canary right now when you visit www.meatcanary.com slash Topolsky T-O-P-O-L-S-K SKY. What do you guys doing this weekend? It's the fourth of July. Actually, let's talk about the fourth of July. Yeah, America.

America's been a hot topic lately. Yeah, I'm just gonna say we're back. We're back. America's gone through some really wild shit in the last two weeks. True. Right? Yeah. Crazy shit. We had a horrible racist shooting. This is, let's say, three weeks. True. Right? Yeah. Crazy shit. We had a horrible racist shooting.

This is, let's say, three weeks. How long ago? It was like three weeks ago. Was it really? Something two or three weeks ago. Yeah. Again, yes. Well, we've had many horrible shootings.

This one was particularly racist. There have been plenty of other racist shootings. This one was like a bad, very bad, horrible racist event in our country, which I think brought to light a lot of, I think it drew out something that we all know kind of still exists in America, which is this undercurrent of racism. I mean, frankly, it's really xenophobia more than anything.

I mean, it's not just whites and blacks. It's Jews and Muslims and whites and Muslims. And Muslims are definitely like, are not having a great time in America right now. I can say that. Anyhow, so then, but so we had a shooting then we had a huge debate about the Confederate flag, which has turned into a relatively positive reaction, which is let's get rid of Confederate flags. As far as like states are concerned, states are now like, which is by the way, a relatively new thing. Yeah, which is shocking. No, this is a crazy thing is that we have been having

the debate in America about the Confederate flag for decades and decades. And only this last two weeks has that debate risen to a place where something happened. Everybody's known that Confederate flags represented something terrible, but nobody's ever done anything about it. But I mean, what is that? Is that just apathy?

Oh, I think it's racist. No, they've actually, like, only been raised the past half century. The symbol is coming back as a modern racist symbol. Not in. There is a, there is a, there is a, there's a really good Washington post story this week about how, you know, all of these, you know, basically Confederates lost the war and then re-road history after they lost. Right, right, right. To say that the war was about states' rights and all this other bullshit. Right. It was about being a rebel. Yeah, no, it was about slavery. But yeah, actually, it was.

It was actually about slavery. Yes. I mean, there's nothing cool about flying the Confederate flag. No. And you know, the greatest point, like you see people making this point on Twitter a bunch, you know, and it's like, it's not about racism. It's about history and respect and whatever. And it's like, yeah, it's about the history of people

who wanted to have slaves. They're like, oh, the confederate flag actually stood for what? Trees in and racism. That's actually what it stood for. There's not another angle to it. I mean, it was on the dukes of hazard car, but that's just because like, if you think about it that way,

you just got like a short view of history. So you see that? Right. On the dukes of hazard car, it's kitsch, essentially. Well, it's like, dukes of hazard. Okay, there's a show called Hogan's heroes. You ever heard of it? Oh, yeah, the show is like a sitcom. I know. I've heard of it. I've heard of it. It's a sitcom about how Nazis held American soldiers in a prison camp. That's actually what the show is about. That sounds crazy for a show on television, right?

It was made in the 60s. Well, it's like the Great Escape. Yeah, but the funny, great escape. But the dukes of hazard are similar in the sense that it's like a show about hillbillies. It's like the Beverly Hillbillies. It's like a show about like Hicks, and they've got a Confederate flag on their car. And it's sort of, it's this like kind of softened version. It's like the fast and furious if it was about the south.

Yeah, but it's also not a drifting. But I'm saying it's like, it forgets all of the real history of that thing and replaces it with a kind of a catch, like you said, like a catch, funny version of it. Like, oh, these hillbillies, they're like gene shorts or whatever, but like actually, you know, it's a pretty horrible symbol. Right. Just the way that the Nazis are pretty horrible jailers. Okay. Nice parallel.

Yeah. I'm just saying, you know, we think the Hogan's Heroes is funny in the way that, you know, Duke's hazard is entertaining, but they both represent horrible, horrible legacies in America. Also, we got a bank guns. We do need to. Yeah, I mean, I but we did have some some good things in America recently. Game marriage. Okay, get a marriage is huge. Awesome. You know, the band guns

thing. Affordable Care Act. Really? Oh, we're gonna go back to guns. Really? What? There was a great tweet I saw today. Tell us about the tweet. Yeah, I'll tell you about this tweet. Apparently actually maybe this was about Sweden. I think this was about Sweden. I think there's mandatory Yeah, conscription or something where everybody has to be trying is this Sweden. Maybe it was also I think it was Sweden Switzerland Switzerland Switzerland. I read everybody is a gun. They don't have but they don't have bullets. Was it your retweet? I retweeted it. Okay.

You know more than I do. It's like, no all the facts. Something like that. Exactly. And then it was like, it was a small world job. It's a meme. It's a meme. It's like in Switzerland, one out of every two people owns a gun and they've got the lowest

murder rate in Europe or something like that. And then somebody's like, oh, actually, you can't have ammo, you can't keep ammo in your home, you have to leave it on a military base or something. There's all these rules that actually mitigate gun ownership. Yeah, but the real point was that guns are a distraction because it's compassionate. It's a reality society.

That's the real point. It's like they've got socialized healthcare and they've got welfare, like unequivocal welfare for everybody. They're sort of like if you're poor and you can't work, like we're not going to make an issue out of it. We're going to like make sure you can survive. When you have an egalitarian compassionate society, people will kill each other less maybe. The entire reality of that country is different than the one that we live in. We're like, we actually care about,

the country actually cares about its citizenry. It's a dark, very dark podcast. No, it's, I mean, this is interesting though. I believe the red wine. Red wine is a downer. It's, yeah, well, welcome to my life. Color blood. It really is the color of blood,

but much darker. Is this, you drink only red wine? Only red wine. Really? Yeah. On the same. I don't know, it's just, it's time for white wine. I feel like, red wine? Only red wine. Really? Yeah, on the same. I don't know. Really? It's time for white wine.

I feel like red wine is disgusting. I feel like red wine really slows you down. Yeah, that's why you drink it at the end of the day and then you get real slow. And then what? You just slow motion yourself right into bed. What is this? Is this a moto?

Is this a moto-actually? Oh, we're talking about phones. I want to talk about phones. A moto-y, is this your phone? Oh, that's my product. When I'm at Dele-Durgeon, we're talking about phones. Right. A moto, is this your phone? Oh, that's my prize money. When I were at the version, everyone just talked about phone. A lot of things. A moto, a lot of things.

A moto, a lot of things. People would pull a phone out and everyone would start drooling. 149 million. They would start drooling. It seems overpriced. There would be puddles of drool on the floor. It's not true, but you know, I think we did move through a period where phones were really fascinating.

I think we've come out. We were on the other side of that now. I don't think a phone can be a fascinating object any longer. I just don't think it's possible. It's like a computer, it's like a laptop. It's like, you know you're gonna have one, it's gonna do basically the same thing as the thing next to it,

and you're just gonna give to just choose whichever one you can afford and whichever one you'd like to look at. It's like computers come in small, medium and large. Small is your phone, medium is your tablet, large is your computer at work. That's about as far as I think about it. I hope your mind is as broad as fine as that. Yeah, I really, I really like that. Did you build a game PC?

I just did last week. You know, I built a gaming. PC gaming is back. Is it for whom? For me. When was it? That's for you. When was it away and when was it there? Like where did it go?

What do you mean it's back? I want to know. I want Katie to run this. I want to know also what she's asking. It's back because I build one. Okay, so it's back in your life. Just in my life. Oh, congratulations.

I don't want to get personally. How much does this dovetail with your relationship? I love hobbies. I need hobbies. I don't want to get personally get how much is this dovetail with your relationship? I love hobbies. I need hobbies. Yeah, everybody needs a hobby. Everyone needs to stay busy. I actually don't have a hobby It's just kicked. Yeah, I finished that like 30 minutes ago. I don't have a hobby My hobby is I mean what turns out is like my hobby is basically my my job when I'm when I have downtime Which is few and far between when I'm when I have downtime, which is few and far between, but when I have downtime, I spend my, I spend my, if I'm not playing a video game, which I find to be like, I mean obviously watching a serialized show like Gilmore Girls or

Six-Feet Under is the most relaxing thing you can do because it just washes over you. It dominates you. But, oh dear. Yeah, that's the feeling I had when I watched Gilmore Girls. I just felt dominated. I feel dominated the whole time. Yeah, me too. Actually, I'm quoting David Denby, the, um, film critic. Uh, we had a conversation at a tryback around table a couple of years ago. And we were talking about sort of interactive film versus traditional linear film. And he was like, I want to be table a couple of years ago and we were talking about sort of interactive film versus traditional linear film and he was like I want to be dominated by the film. Oh boy. Okay. No,

listen, I agree. I understand that. You wanted to wash over you. You want it to be overwhelming. You don't want to like be in control. You want it. You want it to be out of control. But it's dominated really the right word. I think it's more like immersed. You want the film to penetrate you. No, you do not. 50 shades of Dean. You know what? Oh word. I think it is. I think it's more like immersed. You want the film to penetrate you. 50 shades of. No, you do not. 50 shades of Dean. You know what? Oh boy.

No, thank you. 50 shades of jazz, thank you. Yeah, seriously. Hey, you want you to be. You want the rich one. 50 shades of Logan. Oh, Logan was like the blonde hair kid. Logan who then went on to be on the, um, the good wife, right?

Yes. No. No. Yes. Yes. Yes., right? Yes, no, no. Yes. Yes. Yes. Everything comes up, Gilmour girls. I'm glad we're coming back to this. Totally.

Yeah. Best show. Anyway, you got dominated. You were dominated. So when you're not being dominated by it. I'm really interested. I'm very interested in architecture and interior design. I'm extremely.

I have heard you on the phone at work a few times talking about marble this, stone that. Yeah, you know what? You still still have to where's my marble? This is the wrong marble The fuck is my carreira No, that doesn't you know I even talked about this day with my colleagues. I said I'm gonna be that's right I said I'm gonna be on a podcast with Josh later today Okay, and they said did he help you with your cable management situation yet? And I said no. Okay. Okay. So maybe he should. So T.C. I did you tweet about it? I did tweet about it.

So T.C. tweeted about cable management. And I have had a lot of experience with dealing with a cable management. So it's Katie's favorite subject. Nightmare. Oh, I can't wait for everyone to listen. My desire is to help him manage his cables in a way that is, I have so many cables, Joe. Best for you. Well, here's the thing about cable management. It's like a Leon, Lelina and Hydra. Maybe you should just hire, maybe you should just like hire a handyman to,

handyman, can't do it. What is a handyman? You're fucking cables. What are you gonna do? A handyman, Angie's list, what is a handyman.com? Yes, on Angie's list, but also on Craigslist.

By the way, Angie and Craig in a relationship, I don't know. Really? man calm. I'm not sure. Yes, but also on Craigslist by the way engine Craig in a relationship I don't know really I mean, it's wondering I've heard rumors I know Angie's a little bit older, but that would be pretty cool. Thanks very sexy's having correct new marks very nice man By the way, that would be great for him. He was dating love to Angie What thing we know about Craig from Craigslist loves to make love to Angie He's still undeniable fact. Okay, he's a very sexual beauty.

He's very horny at least. Sexual beauty. You've seen the personal section. You know what's going on there? No, it's not awful. It's great. Oh my God. You know, he may have had a biscuit actual with Angie,

but why don't you more sex positive? I can't help it. Yeah, please. Don my God. You know, he may have a biscuit actually with ang But why don't you more sex positive? Can you please don't be Don't be in gender normative or whatever it is you're doing right now. It's not cool When Angie Craig get it on no one's no one's getting hurt I mean once in a while someone's getting a little hurt, but that's what they want Anyhow DC Your cable management situation. Too many cables, many dongles.

Katie's little dongles everywhere. I say Katie's little, I think crying. Okay, good. Here's the thing, it's all about concealing the cables. Okay, it's about managing them. It's about hiding them. Managing them into concealment. Yes, and what you need to,

you need objects to conceal the objects. Oh, objects. Yes. Physical objects. You feel like a big plant. You need a rota dendrin. You need a fucking rota dendrin. And you're living room.

And you can wrap the cable through the trunk of the rota dendrin. Great. I was actually going to get a trunk and draw a hole in the trunk. He's a good idea to have trunk. I think that would be cool. I think that would be cool. I'm looking at trunks on Etsy. Etsy has some great music.

Farm to table, handmade trunks. Farm to table. Yeah. Well, they came from the farm. Farm to cable management. Farm to cable. On very nice. Good rhyme, very good stuff.

Sick rhyme. Anyhow, Craig and Angie, the question that you really have to ask yourself is, do they annoy the hell of each other with advice about how to get things done? Angie and Craig. Angie and Craig. Did I say it the wrong way? Craig and Angie?

Yeah. Or with their celebrity name B. Crangy. Crangy. That's the only option, right? There are no other options. Configurations for that. Egg.

Egg. Aye. Aye. And, and, and, and. And crack. And crack, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, egg, I think this podcast is a missed opportunity. It's gonna be a missed opportunity section. It's gonna be a missed opportunity for us. I'm not, if you're not listening. Get us a little more wine. More wine, right? Okay, good.

Vodka. I'll take it. Okay, hold on. Noreco, our engineer has brought us a select of alcohol because we ran out of wine. We have Jamison, a select reserve, which is not normal Jamison. This is like fancy, schmancy Jamison. Yeah. We have T-dos, which is not normal, Jamison. This is like fancy, shmancy, Jamison.

Yeah. We have T-dos, which is a very solid vodka. Excuse me, it's a fine vodka. Oh, very, very nice. It's no Svetka, but it's very good. Then we have Bacardi rum, superior rum, right? Better than most rums. And tequila, partida tequila.

I don't do tequila. I tequila is a lot of fun. This is against type for me. I'm going to have a little tequila. partita tequila. I don't do tequila. I tequila is a lot of fun. This is against type for me. I'm gonna have a little tequila. I want Jamison. Okay, Katie's gonna have Jamison. I'm gonna throw a brief Jamison phase. Jamison.

Jamison. Nice. Wow. I feel like there's a lot of pressure. Hold up, teedos. I'm gonna have teedos. Noreka goes like half teedos. Good choice.

What's going on? Is that like you don't want to have tequila? You don't think you're only gonna- No one wants you to have fun. No one wants you to have fun. No one wants me to have fun. So, so we were talking about the other news stories in the week. SpaceX had a rocket that exploded. Very bad rocket explosion. Yeah. On manned. On manned, but they're supposed to bring stuff to the ISS. There's a whole, I mean, the US has very limited options when it comes to getting stuff into space. The ISS, we're relying on Russia a lot. There was the HoloLens on board.

Yeah, they're very, they're going to do some, they're going to drop acid, do some serious AR and now look, AR in space. Yeah. Um, it's a, you think you're saying it's not for them. Anyway, there's, it's, it's the 9-11 truth or movement all over again for this rocket. Is it really? People on Twitter showing photos of this rocket right before it exploded, like there are these two little white patches on either side of the tip. And people are saying, people legitimately believe that Lockheed Martin shot the SpaceX rocket with the laser.

Our drinks are coming in. This is great. This is exciting. Uh, table service. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. You're making your wake. You're wonderful. You're the best. So, hold on. So, wait, sorry, I interrupted you a bit. So there were two, there were two white lines. Yeah. So there were little like white patches on either side of the tip of the rocket, just the tip of the rocket. What are they? Just the tip. Uh, no one knows. But some believe.

Okay. That Lockheed Martin shot it out of the sky with lasers. Because they because they don't want to be one of the petitors, right? We won up by Elon Musk. Right. Where would they be shooting it down from? And why would it produce white lines at the tip of the rocket? Lasers, the way light refracts around laser, where a lot of the Martin lasers are really none of your business. Yeah.

Okay. Well, that's a big question. or a laser or high speed. Martin's lasers are really none of your business. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's not just an idea. Literally, say, if Martin wanted to put a laser on the mood, do you think that would be the issue for them? Would have any trouble shooting a rocket down with a laser? I mean, I don't know. Well, lasers are exactly right.

Do we have, do we have great laser-guided rocket destroying missile systems? We don't know what is the extent. I know they thought it was shot down with a laser, rocket destroying missile systems. We don't know the, what is the extent? I know they thought it was shot down with a laser, not a laser. Oh, it wasn't a laser guided rocket laser beam. It's a, the beam itself, lay beam. Well, you only need, you only need a little bit of laser, which of course was invented by Ronald Reagan in the 80s. So that tech has been around for a long time. You're talking, of course, about the Star Wars Star Wars system program that

can protect America from a Russian nuclear attack with lasers. Yeah. Well, create a space creates a grid of lasers across the United States. Like that Resident Evil scene. Which came out. Which game is that? No, no, the movie. Oh, I haven't seen it. So wait, so where is this conspiracy theory blowing up? Is the internet, of course, on the forums of the verge. Do you know what this one's gonna be? It's brewing mostly in the metaphor. I'm actually the proprietor of this conspiracy theory with my soft puppet accounts.

This is TZSotics private. Do you think TZS, do you think there's anything to it? No. Are you sure? I mean, I don't know. Exactly. Who knows for sure? It seems like a very low, it seems like a very low value target overall.

Unless you're trying to destroy SpaceX. No, I know, but even there, I'm even still like, I know. But is this really going to destroy SpaceX? Like no, no, I think we're used to rocket failures and until it's you done another rocket. Well, this will have a real conversation. Next time it'll be a man rocket. And then Lockheed Martin will be murderers. Yeah. Unlike they've unlike the situation or maybe SpaceX shot down its own rocket as a false

flag operation. A false flag on. Yeah, that's absolutely because they're upset about ethics and gaming journalism. You know, it is. But the reason is about that is a gaming journalism. Actually, like I think we should talk about that for a second, because when you get right down to it, would this have happened if we had had a more ethical system for covering gaming? Probably. In the journalistic sense.

Probably would have happened. I think Mark, he probably still would have shot down that space extra. Speaking of death threats though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Kate, earlier, we were talking about, Oh, nice egg. That is an incredible set.

So really, I'd see. Yeah. Have me on every week. Just imagine him just gliding through here on that little standing scooter or whatever you call, We were talking about. Nice egg. That is an incredible set. It's a really good I'd see. Yeah. Have me on every week. Just imagine him just gliding through here on that little standing scooter or whatever you call it, you know, I don't know what they call it officially, but it's a segue. Um, I get it. I get it.

You know, but you know, but you put the same one. You're going to put the same sound in there just to, so when it happens, um, we were talking about you wrote a controversial piece many years ago. Many years. Katie, can you tell us what was the piece? It was shortly after I moved to New York right when I got out of college from Canada, from Canada, moved from Montreal, no, from Toronto, from Toronto. Nice try.

Um, it's very close. Right. I, uh, I wrote my first Victoria, Victoria, British Columbia, beautiful area, by the way, just over the border for me very very Sister live there for a very West let the Weston Canada. Yeah, I would like to talk. We mean the woman. I mean we have to I feel this is a generous specific DC Anyway, as I was saying I wrote my first big story as a journalist for Marie Claire, which is a magazine for ladies by ladies.

This was right around the time that people started like taking pictures of what they were eating and putting it on the internet, which now is a thing that people do all the time. But it was this very insular small community of women who were posting photos of everything they ate and describing it on blogs. And they had these huge followings like Thousands and thousands of people two of them got book deals and all they did was say like I made a bowl of Oatmeal with skim milk and then I ran 12 miles I blew it. I blew my whole career. I'm in the wrong side. Yeah

Why was I not doing this I think they got book deals? Well, they got book deals from from taking pictures of like very Disordered types of eating and then like excessive exercise. When you're disordered type of inspiration. Like, I made a batch. I gap. Yeah, like I made a batch of vegan being brownies with no dairy. And then I ate too many and I felt bad. So I threw the rest out. They've all been there. And then all of all of their readers leave comments being like, it's okay, girl. Like, wow. You're still beautiful.

You're so beautiful. This is like a world I'm not a part of. So it was like a very weird world. So I went to this conference in Chicago where they had this world had a convention that was like the Lady Blogger convention. Where they all dozens. They were like,

I have 1000 people there. Hundreds and hundreds of people. So Zeno at TC. So they all ate. They were probably a thousand people there. Hundreds and hundreds of people. So, you know what, T.C.? So, they all ate a lot of vegetables, and I was there to basically like make friends with all of them and then stab them in the back in this article. Wow, okay, so is the hit piece.

You already hit it. Oh, it was a crazy hit piece. I don't think you should say that you were writing a hit piece, because that's sort of not ethical. And I think if you know anything about ethics and gaming journalism, I love it It was a total total total hit job, but I'm just just based on based in facts and extra. It's a factual hit piece factual hit you didn't have an agenda

You would just want to do some you wanted to drop some science. Yeah totally you wanted to like Would it be cool if that was an actual term drop some science? Well, it is an actual term if you went to Raves in the 90s. So then the story came out. It was leaked online early and it just exploded and I was getting like email death threats from women who were readers of these blogs. I was threatened with a lawsuit. Did any of those attacks motivate you

to really get fit and go for a jog? Not really. You find any of that stuff? You to really get fit? No, not really. You find any of that stuff? You do run every morning. I do. You are a runner. Did you find any of that to be inspirational? That's what I'm asking. I guess. No, actually, I thought it was really upsetting and disturbing and disgusting. Does the trend still exist now? It does. So I check in on some of these women every once in a while just because I'm curious. The blogs are still there. They are still keeping fit and feeling guilty about how they're on Instagram.

What they eat? Probably. Were these like medical disorders like bulimia or? No, it was just like sort of the idea of like perpetuating really, really unhealthy norms and like expectations. Like I ran 12 miles and then like didn't eat anything. Okay. It's my beautiful? I think I'm gonna follow up on this.

Seems like there's a follow up. No, he probably not because when the article came out, it was so stressful for me, because I was like 22, you know, had not a ton of experience with this kind of thing, although I have a lot more now. And I remember sitting in my apartment and thinking to myself like, man, I could go to the liquor store and buy some alcohol and then some cigarettes. And maybe that would make me feel better because I'm really stressed right now.

That sounds good to me. You know, it's funny, you know what's funny about this is as you're talking about this. Yeah. I can't help but think about God. And I can't help but think about how my number one, I think my number one motivator for not believing in God is delicious food. I think like, I think like, I actually, no, I feel like it's like, I think for everybody, this is something they're confronted with every day.

Like delicious food is all around. Delicious. No, cheesecake is all around us. Oh, I don't want. Okay, we're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded.

We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded.

We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. We're surrounded. I like that, it's interesting. But you know, we know it's not good to be super duper fat, right? We know it's unhealthy, it put the strain on your body, it makes you tire, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all this other stuff.

But like yet, like, have you ever had red velvet layer cake? I mean, it's so... I only like salty food. It's okay, fine. Have you ever had chips in guacamole? Oh, yeah, I like that. It can really bad for you. Not that bad.

Avocado is very healthy fat. Avocado is very delicious and healthy. What about chips and sour cream dip it really bad for you. Not that bad. Avocado is very healthy. Avocado is very delicious and healthy. What about chips and sour cream dip? Very bad for you. Yeah. Also extremely delicious. It's like good. So why would God allow us to make things like sour cream dip and chips?

Because he's trying to give us, well, I don't even believe in God. I don't know why. No, I'm right. Neither do I, but I'm saying this is like another brick in the wall as far as I'm concerned. It's like you made cheesecake. You let us have cheesecake and now cheesecake is horrible for us. Ice cream, delicious. When I think about arguments for and against God, the one that I go to most often against

is delicious food. That's the most privileged argument against God I've ever heard. I could think of a lot of less privileged arguments. Yeah, I think we all can. What's that? I'm sorry, Magnus had something to say. We gotta go. We gotta go.

We gotta go. We gotta go. Hard out. So we're gonna wrap? Wow. I think I've been rambling for like a half an hour. I mean, it took us only like 40 minutes to get into it. Well, no, that's what happens.

You know, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's what you're making love to someone, okay? Okay. It's, I starts out awkward, but then you get in a groove. And next thing you know, everybody's having a good time. And if you're whole-curge, it's over in nine seconds. I don't want to think about that. Yeah, I don't want to know.

And you know, actually, it's interesting. There's a big key. We could have talked for an hour about that. We could have. Well, let's just touch it really quickly. There's a huge case it's about to take place in Florida, which is Hulk-Holyd versus Gawker. Let's just say that.

I made everybody Gawker very angry yesterday about tweeting. Gawker, hold on, we're gonna get to that. All right. Gauker ran a story, including a video, which was the video was Hulk Hogan was having sex with a woman. Who was the wife of a friend of his? I think that's, I am I understand that. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. And it was like a home home, home camera allegedly,

he didn't know that he was being filmed. Well, that's right. And Gokka ran the story. Hulk Hogan sued Gokka and that's that case has now been taken to a proper court. It's actually being presented to a jury for invasion. I don't know invasion of privacy. I don't know these act charges on. But it's a huge sum of money. It's $100 million. It's $100 million. But the bigger question is that, you know, was what Gaucker was doing? The big question is, was it news? Did it have news value?

Was it newsworthy? Were they doing what the press should be doing, which is like disseminating information to the masses? Or were they simply capitalizing on a person's private? Well, that's an ethical question for us to decide. And Gawker says for it to decide. But the case is being Gawker's defense is that it's their first amendment right

to post that information or to share that information. And their argument is because Hulk Hogan talks about a sex life publicly that they can run. That's interesting. A private sex tape of it. Right, right. Well, I think what's interesting about it, is I'm of two minds on this, you know?

I mean, in the age of surveillance, I feel like our private lives should be more protected than ever. I mean, we're in a situation where we're more exposed and more susceptible to exposure than we've ever been in the history of humanity. In the sense that all of our communications, text, emails, phone calls are kind of ripe for the plucking when it comes to surveillance.

And you can make the argument TC, you said an email to somebody, I got a hold of it somehow because these things are digital organizations and digital information is leaky by nature. You know, and I can make an argument, there's news value in this email that TC sent to so-and-so, and I'm going to publish it, right? Or he sent this photo of himself, his inspiration photo, you know, I don't know. And now I'm going to publish because I think it's newsworthy. You know, there's like, it really feels like it's a scary place because you don't want your personal life exposed.

And then the flip side, there's, you know, incredible value from exposing things. I mean, you look at Edward Snowden, I mean, on the flip side of the NSA stuff of prism is the exposure of prism, right? The news value of exposing something that was hidden. And so, you know, I think when you look at a case like this halcogon thing, which seems like very funny and laughable, you're like, oh, this hilarious. Like they had halcogons porn tape. Yeah. And halcogons mad because you didn't want people to see him boning.

And so now he's suing them. But it really is a question. It's the first amendment question, you know, in many ways. It's a question of like, what does the press have a right to or what constitutes news? Well, as a journalist, I feel very uncomfortable saying that. Sorry for stored. Galker should lose. The microphone there.

Uh, this case, do you think they should? You really think that? I, yeah, I think that. Because I have that argument to the Lord. And I think we talked about that. I think we, I think it was absolutely gross what they did. And my, you know, the argument that I got to was, why should they lose?

Do you think they should lose? No, I don't think they should lose in court. Because, okay. But I think, you know, it was definitely gross what they did. And my analogy that I brought up that apparently, you know, was controversial and I, Sam Bittles said that I was basically like promoting gamer game art arguments was like, why didn't you post the photos of the leaked

nude celebrities? You know, did you know, did you know? They don't talk about sex and public. They didn't. Yeah. Why wouldn't you post the nude photos of Jennifer Lawrence

when she talks about sex and public? Because that's the argument is that I mean, I think that's a fair point. Yeah. I actually think that is a fair point and I will say that I agree, I both agree and disagree with you on this. It's a very complicated issue. The hardest thing in the world, I actually think is one of those situations. I think there is no news value in a Hulk Hogan sex tape. Okay, I can make a judgment pretty clearly. There is nothing that actually is important about seeing the Hulk Hogan have sex. I agree.

And the problem is the first time I've said nothing about newsworthiness. No, and I know that. And paying for it and running it, the value of that isn't like,'t, isn't, isn't like, wow, we, we have been exposed to information that everybody needed to know. The value is to make money for Gawker because it's salacious. And so I think they're wrong ethically.

I think, uh, it's the wrong road, the wrong path to pursue in terms of journalism. And yet, uh, I have to say I think they should be able to do it because it's like one out of, you know, one out of 10, Hulk Hogan's ex-saves, one out of those 10 might be a revelation that's really important. Well, let's say a politician, you know, does it? Right. You don't want state control. I mean, let's say it's a tape of of jet bush and Carly Furena having sex with

each other. Oh boy. Oh boy. You want to know that. You would know about that, you know, or Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz, yeah, you're going to want to know about that. Good time to wrap that. I can't. We're not going to arrive at any conclusions here. No, no. Did I agree that your tweet was controversial? You are basically a member of gamer gate now. Oh, basically.

Pretty much. And, you know, but look at the end of the day, all you want, all you want to do is talk about ethics and gaming journalists. You know, I blocked, I've blocked 400 people since last night. No. You kidding me? Oh, I'm going to people since last night. No. You kidding me? Oh, I'm gonna go check that out. Because I tweeted something about that bright-bart

sicko, Milo, Milo, and Yanopolis. That guy's hilarious. Yeah, and he has an army. That guy's a lawyer. He has an army. So I was on the front page. Remember, he ran a site called The Colonel. Yes.

It was an abject failure. I'm sorry, I just want to talk about this guy. And now instead of continuing to be a journalist, he decided that he would become a kind of like shock, shock, conservative. He's he's he's Britain's Chuck C Johnson. Yeah, I mean, I don't I that guy is beyond useless on every I'm sorry, I'll just say it. He's a terrible terrible person. And he doesn't deserve them a moment of it.

Wait, so TCU were on the front page of what? The gamer gate Reddit. Oh, no. Is that a thing? Yeah, so they front page. Great stuff. Alexis, great stuff. Keep that going.

Yeah, thanks Alexis. Alexis, keep gamer gate going. By the way, first time I saw the whole Coke and sex tape on the Reddit tour about some 2012, Alexis Sohanian showed it to me in the rest of the journalists. It was even more important. It was really good. Yeah, it was rules. He was like, check out this cream sickle with a mustache.

Jesus. Right. And that's where I think we should end it. Katie and TC, thank you for joining me. This was a very bizarre episode. But I wouldn't have it any other way. I think it was perfect for us. I think it was great.

And I hope that we do another wine cast soon. Maybe. Although this wine cast turned into a straight up liquor cast. I should have I should have bought two bottles of wine. That was my bad. I was like, I'm liking the vibe of the liquor better. I think I think we're like a little sharper, a little more. Yeah, no, you're right. The wine is making me really tired. The wine is like, we got weird and lazy and we know what was going on. This is sharpened me. I feel like a razor, a razor's edge. Great film, by the way. Starting Bill Murray. Wait, yes. Razor's edge is the one with Bill Murray and that river's edge starts. Chris, we're just not going to talk until you wrap it.

All right, anyway, how that's our show for this week. I'll be back next week, obviously, because I'm contractually obligated to continue to do in this podcast until the end of time. And listen, I wish you and your family the very best. I know you're going to have a great time this July

4th. Oh, wait, actually, but when you hear this July 4th weekend, we'll be over. And that's good because the tragedy that is going to befall your family and those surrounding your family I've already happened and you'll probably have the terms you're out of shock You're ready to deal with what's next.

And that's a good, great thing. you