Tomorrow - Episode 17: Michael Shane and Joshua Topolsky Adjust Their Pocket Protectors

Episode Date: August 2, 2015

The Dark Knight. Krull. Pinch to zoom. Alien abductions. Mad Max. Cleaning up your inbox. Scuba equipment. Watchmen. Pok3r keyboards. And that’s just scratching the surface. Josh and Michael Shane truly let the nerd flag fly freely in this week’s episode of Tomorrow.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to get a new one. I'm going to get a new one. I'm going to get a new one. I'm going to get a new one. Hey and welcome to Tomorrow on your host Josh Wittpulski. Today on the podcast we discuss the Order of Death, Silphra and Christina the Viala player. But first, a word from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Canary, a new approach to home security. Canary is a complete home security system packed into a single device.

Unlike old systems, Canary is built to learn. Whenever it detects something out of the ordinary in your home, Canary sends alerts with HD video and audio straight to your phone. That way, you can keep an eye on your kids or your pets when you're stuck at work, find out the oven was left on before it's too late, or stop burglars with a swipe of your finger. Pick up your canary today when you visit www.meatcanary.com slash tabooski. My guest today is an old friend, a good friend, a dear friend, a man who's been on this podcast, but he's back because there are so few people that I can really act like a complete nerd around, and Michael Shane is one of them.

Michael? Joshua? Oh, that's great. Now, people don't know this, but that Joshua that you just said. Yeah, I mean, I only I know this I think is essentially based on Alan Malali the We have such a weird history. We really do The the Joshua the way you just said Joshua is is it a running joke that we've had for many years because I interviewed Alan Malali the former CEO Ford which is by the way strange thing to say at all, a couple of times. And when he would speak to you or me at least, he would refer to me as Joshua.

He's a Joshua. Very paternal. Very paternal and also very specific and repetitive. I mean, he would do it on, you know, he would start every sentence with, like he was addressing me, like maybe he, maybe he thought there might be somebody else in the room that he was talking to them. I mean, he was amazing. He was like a master of being on message.

You'd be like, so, ow, tell me about that. Well, I wouldn't call him ow, I wouldn't call him ow. Mr. Malawi, Mr. Malawi. Well, President, Mr. C. O's, could you tell me about that weeping sore on your face and he'd say, well, Joshua, the weeping sore, it's a little painful, but when I get in my Ford F-150, the pain completely disappears. Yeah, no You'd be like what it would about oil, you know, it's really destroying the plant

He's like, well, you know, what isn't destroying the planet is great feelings and great feelings are provided in High volume by the Ford F-150. It's like that. It really took a liking to you I think it's good. I like him a lot, man. I'd like to interview him again. I should have him on the podcast. So Michael, one of the things I was looking forward to about doing this, this is gonna be a different, I've done a lot of shows lately. We've talked a lot about media.

I had Brian Stelter on, we talked about media. I had all kinds of media. Well, when you might talk about media, but I just basically, I've been jonesy to talk about like nerdy stuff and talk about movies and gadgets. By the way, now that I'm not, so I should explain that Michael and I worked together at the verge for a long time, and then Michael came over to Bloomberg to work with me. We're not just friends, we're also, we've also been co-workers.

In fact, we are friends because we've been coworkers. But now he's at Bloomberg, and I'm, of course gone. I'm on hiatus. I'm on hiatus. Excended permanent hiatus. I'm on permanent hiatus. No, but I'm, you know, taking a little bit of break, a little breather here between gigs.

And so you are obviously working hard. You worked all this week, and I spent this week like, just chilling. But you know what, you've earned it. Just jamming. When was the last time you had a real vacation? I don't know, I still haven't had a real vacation, but the last time.

Sure, we're not. I know I should do something, but anyhow, so I'm excited because I've spent the last two weeks, the last week really, indulging in some of my nerdier pursuits. And if you follow me on Twitter or any of the social networks that I am active on, you'll know that I've been buying a lot of keyboards.

I've seen the pictures. Have you noticed this? Oh, I've noticed. I brought one in my podcast booth at, oh, I should say, I should preface this by saying, I'm recording this from home. I'm recording it from my home podcast in room, AKA my walking closet. I'm also on a closet. I think it's, yeah, you know, you know what, anyhow, I'm just going to leave that one. I'm going to let there.

Just going to let the, I'm going to let the listener just, you know, get, get the mouth feel for that one. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Switch that around. Nothing wrong with it. That was my first one. Switch that around and think about it for a while. Anyhow, I brought one in the closet with me because I wanted to, just basically because

I wanted you to hear the way it sounded. Can you mind if I just type a little bit? I was hoping you would. Are you catching that? Oh, I feel like that has a really nice depth. I just wrote your name. I'm going to do your last name now. Okay, do it. A little typo there. I heard the flow. I got a little fucked up. So this is a, then let me type it on. I'm typing on a poker three keyboard, which is a 60 it's actually P.O.K.3R because you know

of course lead hackers. Oh, of course. And it's got Cherry MX Blue switches, which are very noisy as you can tell. And it has, it has Dolce, Dolce DSA keycaps. So here's the thing, I've always been a fan of keyboards. Like I've always collected keyboards. I have a bunch of old Apple keyboards. I've always been a fan of keyboards. Like I've always collected keyboards. I have a bunch of old Apple keyboards.

I've always been interested in them. I've always loved and cared about the sound of a keyboard and the feel of a keyboard. And you know, from our time at Bloomberg, you know that I requested a special Bloomberg, old Bloomberg keyboard because I thought it was so interesting and so different. You were on that right away.

I was on all over it. I had to wheel and deal. But because the new keyboards are like too much like Mac keyboards, like modern Mac keyboards. But I didn't really, until very recently, realize there was this total subculture of just complete, and I should have known this. But this crazy subculture of total keyboard geeks

that are just so, so beyond any like level of interest that I could have possibly touched or noted about. Except now you're one of them. Except now, I mean I don't listen, I don't really use Reddit, but there's one subreddit I will visit, which is R or slash mechanical keyboards. And mechanical, and these guys are awesome, they're just they're're fast they have fascinating ideas and frankly They've got beautiful keyboards But so I've been buying a lot of keyboards and and a lot of keycaps and learning a lot like something here's something I didn't know okay switches. I knew there were different switches. I didn't know that the key caps There are so many different types of key caps those are the keys and They have different heights. They have different textures. They're produced in different, they're in summer injection molded,

summer, I don't know all of the details yet, but anyhow, so I've spent like probably like $1,000 on keyboard related paraphernalia in the past, in the past two weeks. I mean, honestly, honestly, not working is probably bad for me because it does allow me to indulge my interest and all of my interests, generally speaking, are expensive.

Yeah, it's always like, it's so annoying. Maybe I've talked about this before. But I think we've talked about this before. We have, but in private. I'm like, oh, I need a duffel. I want to get a nice duffel bag for travel. Oh, that's a rabbit hole for you. Well, and I'll look at like 40 duffel bags, and I'll be like, that's the one.

And that one, then I'm like, that's the one. Without seeing a name, without seeing a price, will be inevitably no question, will be the most expensive Duffle bag on the planet. It's like, oh, you want the $150,000 limited edition Duffle bag? That's weird. It's like, it's my curse that I have great taste.

It's like, this is a worst kind of humble brag. Anyhow, so I've gotten really into mechanical keyboards. And- That's lovely. I have very visceral memories of elementary school because there was typing class, and they were all those old IBMs. Yeah. Right? And I just remember they had the most satisfying

right- Please, content. Are the police coming here? Come here, Alex right now. I live in Brooklyn. Oh, sorry about that. But hey, the tax dollars are hard to work. I'm just taking a sip of a delicious vodka soda.

Magnus, I apologize in advance. Magnus is the producer of this podcast who is also Swedish. I'd like to remind you. You can contact him if you have any requests or complaints at a Magnus at tomorrow podcast. I think he's going to get a lot of email after this one. And also requests, I have to say, I don't already say requests, but if you've got, well, whatever, if you've got something you want to hear about, somebody you want to hear me talk to, tell Magnus,

and then he'll tell me in a variety of ways, most of them phone calls, text messages, and emails. So anyway, while, what? Sorry, you were, you were, you were, you have vivid memories of the keyboard. I was sharing an anecdote. Sorry, go on. I apologize sharing an anecdote. Sorry. Go on I'm clearly not a clicky keyboard enthusiast at my current age. I do have like very

highly stimulated memories of like the sound and the feel of this old IBM keyboard and I can still remember what it felt like. It's a model M It's the model M. I'm guessing it It's a big beige, very deep set keys. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a very famous, and you'll find people in our slash mechanical keyboards. Do people say the R, I don't know how it works on that? So the one time, one of my only memories with Alexis O'Hanian as we were talking,

and he was like, I was like, oh, so I look at some subreddits every once in a while, and I said, I look at the, you know, I said, I look at our slash scuba about scuba diving. He was like, oh, so you look at our scuba. So I think people who are like reddit insiders, they just, they don't say slash. Reddit insider will be the next site launched by business insider who recently launched tech insider. That would so great about those guys is they're inside of things.

They're deep in there You don't want to you don't want to get somebody is you wouldn't read tech outsider Right. I'm so sorry about these sirens. It's really embarrassing. No, it's okay. I like it It adds a little flavor to this. I feel like I'm in it like at 1978 Italian Italian produced but shot in New York Cop slash serial killer drama but shot in New York, cop slash serial killer, drama.

Starring Harvey K. Tell and John Liden, aka Johnny Rodden of the Sex Pistols. I feel like you and I could sorry, 1980. 1980, this is a real movie. I'm referencing the film. This is what I'm talking about, Michael. This, nobody else would bring this out of me. I'm of course referencing the film, cop killer.

A rich, originally titled The Order of Death, which also happens to be a song from P.I.L.s that's Public Image Limited from their 1981, a fantastic 1981 record. This is what you want. This is what you get. Did you know that Cop Killer is also a song by the American band Body Count from the 1992 Self-Titled debut album? And the song's words were written by Body Counts lead vocalist, Iced Tea. Are you Googling right now while we're talking? Yeah, whenever you say something,

and I'm actually not aware of it, I like that. I like that. You should Google the phone. Cop Killer also went under the title corrupt, and it's actually very difficult to get the full-length version of the film. I bought it on VHS in like 1998, and it was like a TV edited version of it.

It's actually an amazing weird movie. It's about, well, it's about a cop killer, obviously. Right. Again, the original title was the order of death. I hope that when I bring something up that you're not aware of, you will also Google it. I will, I will, but of course we know that it will be impossible for you to bring up anything. That's never actually happened. I think it has I think it has like if you

start talking about some really intense scuba stuff we might yeah like like din valves and yoke valves and things like that well of course you got to get the right din valve on your on your setup you know your mask and your tank you don't want to go you don't want the yoke to be flying off of there definitely not that would That would be very bad. I don't know what a dind I don't know what a dind valve or a yoke valve is you want is how boring would it be for you to tell me we should probably continue on the track We were on oh really you think that's what's there really really boring is what you say yeah Anyhow but I was saying that yeah any how when I when I hear sirens I in my think about in sirens and cars Cop cars in New York, I immediately

flashed to that film. I just got a weird Skype noise. I hate Skype sound effects. You could have just ended that sentence after the word Skype. Yeah, anyhow. So it's a great film. And if you can find the, there's no HD version of it as far as I know. And if anybody knows where I can get an HD version of the full length cut,

which is like 113 minutes, and the TV is like TV cut is like 85 minutes. I would love to see the full version. It's an extremely strange movie. What, why are you doing that come out? Let's see, I think 1980, I want to say it came out 81 or 80. Let's see. I'm not really sure. Cop Killer, the film.

I'm scared, I'm scared of research. 1983. Oh, so it, so scared to research 1983 oh so it so it no no no no look look is it how the original the order of death does it have the original title in there oh oh and you're more more a pony did the music that's awesome more pony to the music is directed by Italian director's name is case me right now Roberto Fanzo yeah very good a very nice accent and uh... thank you so much nineteen eighty three yeah and it's an Italian production i think but shot in new york and it's very strange i don't know the john lied in has been in any other films and i have to tell you he's a kind of incredible in it and he's he's sort of an

amazing sort of uh... just mesmerizing actor well i'm a huge on line fan i mean i'm a i'm a big fan of his his post sex pistols career He had a band called public image limited. Oh, it's that guy. Yeah, oh, I see You know what other movie came out in 1988 are our musical like our musical reference points

Hold on we're gonna get back to that but our musical reference points are really not aligned No, they're not but they're really far off but the universe is a circle I don't I don't know about that anyhow What were you gonna say? I was gonna say you know what else came in 1983 one of my favorite movies of all time the never ending story Well, that that is a great movie. I don't think you know anything story. Sorry. Really you're singing you can have that Magnus let it that out. Yeah, just save us all a tremendous amount of embarrassment Have you do you remember the movie? save us all at tremendous amount of embarrassment. Have you, do you remember the movie,

Crull? Oh my God. My brother and I watched Crull, like, on repeat. Let me tell you a great story. We were obsessed with that movie. Is this, can I just, before you tell the story? Yeah, yeah. Does it involve feces?

No. Why would it involve fecal matter? Because I feel like everything with you comes back to some kind of really shit. I'm about to tell a very story that's close to my heart about a girl. I had a crush on in high school. I'm loving this. Okay, so I saw Carl for the first time when I was in high school.

And I just have these. I loved the movie. I thought it was amazing. Take the fire from my hand. Is it a line from the film? Yes, that's like, I guess it is. I don the movie. I thought it was amazing. Take the fire from my hand. Is it a line from the film? I guess it is. I don't remember. Yeah, that's like the light motif of the film. Wow.

So anyway, when I was in high school, I had a crush on this girl. What was her name? Oh God, what was her name? Wow. I don't remember. She had piercings though, and I thought you're not that old. So it wasn't that long ago. Yeah, I'm kind of old.

It was like, this would have been. You're just a little years ago, youngster. 14 years ago. All right. Anyhow, you can't remember, but she had piercings. Her name might have been Christina. She had piercings since she played the viola. Oh, that's very cool.

And anyway, I ordered a VHS copy. Oh, I should say, honey, can I guess? I'm sorry, I should preface this by saying, give a little set of little context here. Michael is, in addition to being an amazing editor and an amazing manager of things and people, he is a classically trained professional clarinetist or cloudist as I like to call it.

He is played with the Cleveland Symphony Orchestra, and he also is a former Apple Store employee. So I think he a little taste for what. And what else to it? Oh, and he's an avid scuba diver, an avid scuba diver, as you heard from his yoke and dine piece. He just did a little bit ago. And what else do I know about you that I need to tell everybody? Let's see what else comes up in. So Christina had piercings. So Christina had piercings. She played the viola. She played the viola. So she was like hip. She was much cooler than I was. Wow, that car had a big muffler. I'm so sorry. That might be a motorcycle. You would know. I would be in a motorcycle expert. We can talk about that a little bit. So anyway, I ordered a

VHS copy of Croll from Amazon, which for me was a huge expense. And I wrote her this letter and I gave it to her. And of course, we never got together because she was like a senior. That's insane. Hold on. I just want to make sure I understand this. All right. So you're interested in this girl. You're how old? 15, 16? Yeah, probably 16, 16, half maybe. 16, half maybe. Okay, and she's a hot boy that you want to get with. And you thought that your move was to send her a crawl DVD or give her a crawl DVD or a...

The first of all, it was a VHS. I want to hear your clear about that. Okay. Well, look, we were at boarding school for music. So she was hip and cooler than me, but she was still huge nerd. And she played the viola, which means she was a huge nerd. Hey, you know what the difference is between the front of the viola section

and the back of the viola section? What? About a measure and a half. Wow, this is an orchestra. That's an orchestra joke. Yeah, it is. Magnus will also edit that. No, Magnus, keep that in.

I'll give you a dollar. And no, Magnus is keeping everything. And you don't understand. All right, anyhow, so you sent her a, you gave her this crawl via I ordered the VHS and I gave it to her. Life is amazing. I mean, just if I could have this story, it's incredible. So of course, we never got together, but nonetheless, she became a huge fan of

the movie. And so we would just tell each other, take the fire from my hand, ad nauseam for the next year. Why didn't you get together? What happened? You know, the universe wasn't in favor of it. I don't understand. Did you make a move and she was not into it? No, I was not nearly cool enough to make a move.

I pretty much just gave her the VHS and that was it. Well, so I don't understand. It seems like the fact that you guys had a running joke about the film or a running sort of thing. Yeah. Seems like maybe she was interested. It seems like the fact that you guys had a running joke about the film or a running sort of thing. Yeah. Seems like maybe she was interested. I'm not saying that anybody who has a running joke with you is interested, but it wasn't

like she got it and that you guys never talked about it or something. Look, I think that I was a special and appreciated presence in her life, but I was firmly in what some followers of popular culture might call the friend zone. Yeah, the friend zone. Sure. I think a lot of people like us spent a lot of time in the friend zone. We did because we're givers. Yeah. Well, the friend zone, the friend zone's kind of a dirty phrase now because the friend zone

is like some weird thing that like game regate people use. Oh, really? Yeah, it's become like a weird aggressive. I mean, I don't know. When I'll, I know about this. I was completely unaware of that. All I know about that, I think it's become kind of an aggressive stance, like, it's like,

oh, that's what girls are either in the friend zone or you're like having sex with them, like you can't just have a normal relationship. But that's what you think you're an asshole. It is kind of a weird binary way to think about it, but I will say when I was a young loser, I, you know, constantly was like, oh, I really like this girl, she's, thank you so amazing. And like, we were really good friends, and I was like, oh, I really like this girl. She thinks she's so amazing.

And like, we were really good friends. And I was like, man, I wish we could be more than friends and it just never, ever happened, you know? And I definitely was like, not, I wasn't trying any moves. That's for sure. So I guess I understand how you feel. Yeah, I think probably there are a lot of missed opportunities due to my lack of moves.

I don't know. Do you think that what do you think was more valuable, the opportunities you missed or the things you learned from missing them? That's a, I don't know what that means. I don't know. I guess listen, I guess you learned something. Anyhow, I mean, we're both in wonderful relationships now. Hey, you know, you know who did the music for crawl? James Horner. James Horner, who of, it all worked out. You know, who did the music for crawl James Horner?

James Horner, who, of course, famous and just died, just died and famously did the soundtrack for man countless films. Titanic. Star Trek 2, The Wrath of Khan. Of course. He was great. Sound tracking is cool. When I was making music, I always thought that like my career path would be, I would make music for a while. I would DJ and you know, make records. And then at some point graduate to soundtrack it. Like I thought that to me felt like an adult version of making music. Like you're not going to be in a band forever because that's sort of unrealistic unless you're the Rolling Stones. Wasn't that what Trent Rezner is doing now? Well, no, Trent Rezner had the perfect, he's had the perfect career arc. I mean, when you look it, when you look at him, he had this like, he was very edgy and insane as an artist.

And then he was like a huge pop star, really, weirdly, like a huge pop star, very much on his own terms. And then he went, you know, he kind of went dark for like a decade, but presumably he was working on smaller projects and working on, you know, building a career and doing something a little bit different. And obviously, it's paid off to me, guy's won an Oscar for doing soundtracks. And now he works at Apple or something. He works with Apple. And I should say, maybe I haven't told this story, but after the beats, the big beats announcement, and when they had

gave us all the details on Apple music, not the beats announcement, the Apple music stuff, I took a flight from San Francisco to LA, I had some meetings in Los Angeles, and I sat in the business section, and the rest of the business section was Trent Rezner and his family. Oh my God. Yeah, and his like, and people that worked for him and with him.

Wow. And so it was, that's the entire story, nothing transpired. He has, you know, seems like he's got a cool family, And so that's the entire story, nothing transpired. He has, you know, seems like he's got a cool family. He's got some kids that are very cute. Oh, it's nice, good for him. And, you know, it's just weird,

because it's like I just seen, I mean, was he on stage? I think he did something, I can't remember, but it was like all this, all this like Apple music stuff and then he's like sitting there. I was like, excuse me, why isn't the whole library available trend now? I didn't do that. I was like, how come, why isn't the whole library available? Trent, how I can do that. I was like, how come the Beatles aren't available?

Trent, that's the thing that some people would do though. That's the worst. Like, don't ever, if you ever see Trent, Rasmus, or Tim Cook, or whoever, don't ask them a question about like, how come you're like, you only get two bars on your phone in a certain area. I remember being at, don't be a jerk. Don't be a jerk. Well, just don't ask a question that's like, they can't help you with. Like, I remember being at the

D conference and somebody, you know, I think just jobs, I think it was jobs was on stage. You know, this is Walton Caras, you know, all things D conference. And something got up and was like, what are you going to do about AT&T's bad cell phone service? And it's like, dude, you have a chance to ask the jobs a question. And your question is like, how come I only get edge data in my apartment? Like, seriously, you've got to find a better question for Steve Jobs. You know, ask him something really meaningful. And if possible, well, anyhow, you know, at that point. So anyhow, what were we talking about, Carl? We were talking about Carl, which is a phenomenal movie and something I just learned from

Googling. Yeah. Is that Ken Marshall who plays the male lead in the movie? I was his first and last role. No, it wasn't. He went on to play Michael Eddington on Star Trek Deep Space Nine, who in that show was kind of a douchebag. Oh, interesting. Well, it just shows his range kind of a douchebag. Oh, interesting.

Well, it just shows his range, because in crawl, he rules. Oh, yeah. The thing that I remember most about crawl is that he had an awesome weapon that was like a... The Glave, G-L-A-I-V-E. The Glave. Yes. What do we call it cooler if it was called the Clave,

tell you think? Why? I don't know. It sounds like a cleave, like cleaver. And it's like a cutting like it's like a cutting It's like a throwing star. It's like a magical boomerang. Yeah, it's a huge Boomerang slash throwing star. Yeah, it's got like five or six I don't know spokes I feel like crawl is in a category of film that's like very 80s like ice pirates

Yes, remember that time bandits. Yeah time bandits definitely is one of those films There's just this whole genre of like sci-fi fantasy led you can put legend in there. Yeah, I think you could put a Labyrinth in there I guess the never ending story. I guess What's the other one? The other the other anime is not animated but it's like a fragment movie. Oh the The other anime, it's not animated, it's like a fragment movie. Oh, the, you're not thinking of the Dark Crystal, are you? Yeah, the Dark Crystal. Oh, awesome. That is what I think it is.

Nice. It's like a category of film that kind of doesn't exist anymore. I feel like. You know what you should talk about, though? What? We got to, if we go back one decade further, we can talk about Zardos. We can talk about Zardos, but first I think we should take a break. Oh, okay. Because we have a word from our sponsor. Great. And then we can come back and we can talk about whateverardos. We can talk about Zardos, but first I think we should take a break. Oh, okay.

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It's the biggest scam in the world. Well, I feel like it's the kind of thing that people in our generation just aren't ever gonna be interested in signing up for in the future. Well, I mean, I think some people you want home security, but you know, you don't wanna, and by the way, this is me just speaking, you know, in real about real life. It's just like, you don't wanna,

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It monitors temperature, humidity, and air quality, which is, I would actually get a device just to do those things without any of these other features. Yeah, I know, I have a canary and I've actually often found that to be the most interesting aspect of it. Canary has no contracts or required monthly fees, and with the free starter plan, you can use canary with no additional costs.

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I've been enjoying it though. This to me is like, I remember the old days of the Engage of Podcast when sometimes I would, I just, we'd finish it and I'd be like, that was just like three guys talking. It was like you got on the phone with somebody and you were just bullshitting and then you let other people listen to it, which is very strange,

but there's something very satisfying about it. I don't know. I completely agree. I mean, when I listen to podcasts, I either want something that's very highly produced like this American life or I like to listen to, I do the know when I listen to podcasts. I either want something that's very highly produced like this American life Or I like to listen to I do the Freakonomics podcast 99% of visible is very highly pretty. Have you ever listened to that? I haven't it's good. I'll check it out It's amazing, but on the other end of the spectrum. I like things like this that are very

Freeform what are you saying? You know just floating wow flexible poor magnets. I mean this is a blow to him. I mean He you know he thinks he is creating a highly produced product. No, look at the point. You just said what you just said, I think, is going to really hurt him. I just mean that we're not, you know, it's, uh, this is rough. It's not way out of this. Straight from the heart. Far from your top digging, hope somebody comes to the full cliff to get you out of there. Magnus, I love you. Plotum. Magnus, maybe you can bring a foreclift in. Although, you know, you'll probably screw it up the way Michael makes it sound. Jesus, Michael, honestly, you're a bad guy. So anyhow, we were talking about those 80s movies and I guess they've never played, but wait a second, what were you gonna, you were gonna make a point about something? Was I? Yeah, you were like, I was like,

we're gonna talk about that, but let's take a break first. Oh shit. It was gonna be great. You were like, this is gonna be so good. Damn it. Was that signer? No, that's a matter that's definitely a motorcycle Was it was it something related to Zardos? I feel like we know we weren't there yet You want to talk about Zardos and I know we can get there We don't know if we have to talk about Zardos. I think all we have to say is that if you haven't seen Zardos You're you're you haven't lived so have you seen have you seen the new Avengers film? Yes? Are you are you a fan of the Avengers movies? In their own way, yes.

I don't know. I watched the new film, the age of Ultron. And I feel like I just sat through such a completely useless piece of fan service. I mean, it felt so totally meaningless in every way. I thought that the stakes of that film are absurd. And also that the plot of the movie is, sorry, spoiler alert for anybody who hasn't seen it, which would be only one person.

The plot of the film is like an AI decides that it needs to wipe out humanity because humanity is, and that's the only way to bring about peace. And it's like really the plot of the Terminator or the Matrix or whatever. I mean, you literally went for the most off the shelf, common idea about what an AI will do.

It's so interesting that you bring this up because I was just listening to another podcast. What? Yeah, sorry. Freakonomics. And they were talking about the economics of suspense in storytelling. And one of the economists they had on the show made the point that

superhero fights and the superhero movies in general are suffering because if you apply the laws of economics there is essentially a limited a limited supply there is scarcity around suspension of disbelief and suspense and you can only ask so much of your audience and that in the superhero genre Once everyone figured out that Superheroes can't really hurt each other And they're basically gonna fight and fight and fight until someone sort of almost wins by accident It stopped being suspenseful and it stopped really being entertaining

I mean I went and saw it in the theater because I knew it going to be one of those big movies where it's for the spectacle You see it in the theater which is kind of my threshold these days, but sure I didn't go in expecting that to be to be moved emotionally and like an entertainment sensor or suspenseful sense I sort of went to have like my face melted off right and sure It's got some it's got some wonderful action sequins as though everything me looks totally fake. And so it's difficult to take any of it seriously. But, you know, I think that's actually where the X-Men films have succeeded, not all of them, clearly the third one is a piece of garbage. But I think the two recent ones, the throwback movies, days of future pass. Days of future pass, which is the most recent one in the first class. First class, which I didn't have a lot of expectations about that and it ended up exceeding

whatever expectations I had. But I think what makes those so interesting and frankly what makes the Batman storyline so interesting is that it really is an examination of humanity and what people are like and how people are in different situations, in tough situations, and less about the stakes are so high, the earth will be destroyed. There's always a kind of super high-stakes thing happening, but Batman keeps it pretty city-focused. You know, like you actually got them focused. Well, the thing about that is that in some ways you look at this

there's no great outcome that's possible. It's either bad or worse. Right. Super hero has to negotiate with. Well, you've seen there's a future past, right? Yeah. No, I mean, it's it deviates, you know, from the book. Have you ever read the book? No, I've not read the amazing. It's a really amazing. I don't remember if it was published. I can't I don't know I because I weren't I wasn't reading X-Men when this came out, but I don't know if it was published in multiple parts or it was done as just a standalone graphic novel. But the film itself captures the, I mean, I think the thing that's most interesting about the X-Men and sort of a storyline they keep returning to is how normal human beings will react to the presence of something superhuman. And I think that's, and I think that some, that kind of exploration is really interesting.

And I think it's that kind of deeper thinking that drives something spectacular, like watchmen, not the film, but the book. Right. I actually recently... Why is everybody hate the film so much? Well, so I recently re-watched, I just like last week I re-watched the director's cut of Watchmen, which is over three hours long. And there are places that it adds things

that where it really does deepen the storyline, and it really does help get the story back closer to what the book was doing. But fundamentally, Watchmen is trying too hard to be a superhero action movie. When, this is what I think personally, when the book itself is not like a superhero action book, that's not the point.

The point is about, it's a character study and it's about, it's actually also kind of a political drama. Oh yeah, very much. It's a commentary on so it's about, you know, it's actually also kind of a political drama. Oh yeah, very much. I mean, it's a commentary on so many things. Huge commentary, but I mean, it's commentary on, but it's also this sort of meta commentary on comic books and comic book culture.

And the kinds of characters that came out of comic book culture. Yeah. And the film, you know, there are points where it gets it really right, where it feels really smart and good. I think changing the entire finale. I was disappointed by that. It totally kills the message,

the actual message of the characters in the book. But I think what's interesting is that, you know, that, I mean, that thing in of itself, that idea is almost such a parody of comic book ideas. Right. You know, and that's what's so brilliant about it. It's just, I think the film comes off in Zack Snyder, who's a, you know, he's a talent, he's a talent and director.

I kind of liked Man of Steel. I thought that was actually kind of a decent movie. I'm very interested in the Batman Superman film. So we should talk about that because I'm very interested. Well hold on, let's talk about it. But I want to say that, you know, I think, I just think the, yeah, I don't know, the Watchman movie just fails to execute on the, on the headiness of the source material. But what if you hadn't ever been exposed to the source material?

What if you were evaluating? Then I think it's a sort of mediocre superhero movie. I think it's like, it doesn't live up to the thrill of, you know, that's interesting. The Dark Knight or whatever, you know, whatever the, what's the best, the middle movie is the best Nolan, the one with the Joker? Is that the Dark Knight? Uh, no, the Dark Knight.

Yeah, no, no, no, the Dark, is that the dark night? No, the dark night. Yeah, so dark no dark dark Batman again's then dark night. And then dark night rises. Yeah, am I crazy? Am I misremembering the title? There's no one. Why don't you look at me? All this googling you're doing and now what I need you most, how am I forgetting this? Um, I have the trilogy on Blu-ray, thanks to my mother.

I'm not a fan. I'm not a big fan of the Nolan movies. I think the middle one is quite... That man begins, it's The Dark Knight, and then there was The Dark Knight rises. So it's The Dark Knight. But anyhow, what was I saying? What was the point that I was getting to? Well, we were talking about Watchmen.

Well, right. I think then you have a mediocre action movie. In the media or super, he's super here, ActMate. This is one area in which I differ with most sort of people who are familiar with Watchmen. I mean, I remember reading the book and it was a very intense experience for me. I think if I had read it when I was younger, I could also tack the word formative onto that. But I didn't because I think it was I was a little bit too old for it to be formative, but it was it's still one of my fondest memories

of frankly reading something ever. But. No, it's amazing, it's an amazing book. But for some reason, I wasn't super offended by the movie, I don't know. I wasn't offended by it. I actually enjoyed the movie when I saw it, and I was like, that's pretty faithful,

and there's some really good parts there. I think there's some scenes, there's some moments that are totally brilliant in that movie. I think that he actually does a really admirable job almost I mean think it's an argument to be made that it's almost too faithful in some parts, but you know there are some great moments and in fact when you watch the director's cut like you know when the comedians killed at the beginning, which is super duper faithful to the opening scenes of the comic book. Oh, yeah. I mean, almost like there are frame for frame stuff. Do you remember the first trailer that came out with the...

Oh, of course. ...and the trailer is burned into my... When I saw the trailer, I was like, oh my God. Yeah. I can't believe that they've done this and it looks kind of not horrible. Yeah. But the... They actually have...

You remember after that happens, they have the cops who are in the apartment and they're talking about the crime. Yeah. And it's very, very, very close to what happens in the comp, which is so similar. Well, it's almost like the comic book was a storyboard. Well, you've been to add something to it that isn't in the original version.

I think that's great and it really deepens it. And I think it has one of the greatest intros. I mean, it's one of the greatest intros. You're making me want to watch this now. You should watch it. I mean, it's fun to watch. I mean, if you're a fan, I mean, it's enjoyable. But, I mean, here's the deal.

The watchmen should be a 12-part or a 24-part television show on HBO. That would be awesome. If watchmen were done the way it should be done, and really fully explored, I think this all the time in, this is why I think Game of Thrones is so amazing, for what it changes, whatever. But those books are huge, and you can't do a two-hour version of one of those books.

And I think what's so interesting about television is that the medium is so rich now and it's so good. This is such a great segue. I love it. Yeah, really? Are we segueing into something? I think so. I mean, I've been watching Deadwood. Oh, well, let's get it. We'll get to that in a second. All right. But I just want to say, I just want to say, I just think that that to me is, you know, it just isn't going to, you're not going to do watchmen as a two and a half hour movie.

It just is not the right form, but I can see it being, you know, several seasons of a TV show or one or two seasons or like a, you know, a 12-part mini series. I think you could pull it off as a 12-part mini series. You know, 12 hours of watchmen, you could do a lot with it. Yeah. Anyhow. I agree. Let's talk about Dehwood. Oh, I could do a lot with it. Yeah. Anyhow. I agree. Let's talk about Deadwood. Oh, I mean, it's so great. It's great.

That's all. It's great. He and Mick Shane is just as crazy as a fucking prodigy genius. If you haven't watched Deadwood, if you're listening to this, you haven't watched Deadwood, I highly suggest you go. And it's not a huge commitment. It's only, they only made like three seasons. Hmm.

No, it's so crushing about it. Got my drinks almost finished. This is terrible. it's so crushing about it. Got my drinks almost finished. This is terrible. It's so crushing about deadwood is that you, it's three seasons, the cancel that after three seasons. And by the way, HBO has let much worse run for way longer than three seasons. Speaking of much worse, have you seen the entourage film?

No. What's the last movie you saw on the theater? Oh, uh, Jesus. What is the last movie you saw in the theater? Oh, uh... Jesus. What is the last movie I saw in the theater? I don't know, Mad Max. Yes! That's the last movie I saw in the theater.

I think it was. I saw it in 3D. I never go to things in 3D because I think 3D is a steaming pile of garbage. But... That's not your socks off. It knocked my fucking socks off. I gotta say, I liked it. You know, I really enjoyed it Lauren. I went to see it.

Oh, we had a great time. I thought it was a really fun movie. I think it's well done. It's insane that George Miller, it's George Miller, right? Yes. No, yes. Yes. Just Google it, man.

Well, that he basically did the Mad Max films, then he did like, babe movies and kids movies and spent 20 years doing like nothing like that. And then came back to it. And you can tell that it was all like pent up, and then he just like exploded, and just like sprayed everybody with Mad Max. The film is so wildly inventive.

It's a complete spectacle, it was amazing. It's a total spectacle, and it's like nothing else, nothing else that has been in the theaters in a really long time. I mean, I just remember seeing after seeing, it's like nothing else. Nothing else that has been in the theaters in a really long time I mean, I just remember seeing after seeing it's like one how the hell did they do this? Two am I actually seeing this or is this a hallucination? Right, three either way I don't care because it's amazing. Oh, I just remember that I was I was leading to a point that I wanted to make Oh, please, please way way at the beginning of this podcast. Let's do it. Let's take a while

I was saying do you remember I was saying I'm podcasting from my makeshift studio and my closet. Right. And I'm using, so I don't know how the sound quality will be. I'm using a Yeti mic. Hey, me too. Oh, okay. Anyhow. So I bought this, I bought this pop filter for the Yeti mic, Okay. Which fits over the top of the Yeti mic.

That would make sense. Yeah. And it's so snug. It was like a real condom situation when I put this thing on. It really does make the Yeti, which is already quite a phallic looking microphone. Super phallic. It makes it look even more phallic. And so that all that, you know, all that aside. Yeah, so mine doesn't have a pop filter. We should see if you sound great. You sound great. You sound great. It's a difference. I'm sure they will I feel like this is I don't know if it's improving the sound What is that I was popping if you want a pop you have to like you know get you have to like pop Well, I don't want to hurt anybody's ears. You have to get it. Well Magnus will roll off the base

Mm-hmm if you really go crazy all right, because that's what you do anyhow So I don't know if it's improved, but I do know that it's made this microphone look obscene, more obscene, which is very upsetting. Anyhow, let me ask you a question. Okay. What is the most scared you've ever been? Oh gosh. Oh, hold on, this is a two-part question.

Okay. What's the most scared you've ever been in real life and because of a work of fiction? Okay. Most scared I've ever been in real life was when I was younger, I don't know the exact age, it was definitely younger than 15, so probably sometime in middle school, I did, you know, during the summer,

I did like some outdoor adventure day camp, you know, that involved ropes courses and things that extreme heights wearing harnesses all completely safe. And I just remember this one where I had to climb what was essentially a telephone pole, right? And there was like, you know, a ladder built onto it. So you climbed that, but it was a telephone pole, not more than eight or ten inches in

diameter. And you had to stand on the top. You were wearing a harness and you were hooked up to a rope and a blade and all that stuff and there was a trapeze out in front of you and the purpose of the exercise was to stand on the top of this telephone pole which was at least 30 feet in the air and jump and try to grab the trapeze. Oh, and I got to the top. How old were you? Middle school. This is terrifying to me just I don't know about it. It gets worse. I got to the top. How old were you? Middle school. This is terrifying to me just hearing about. It gets worse.

I got to the top. There you go. And earlier in the day, I had accidentally been hit in the face by someone who was swinging. And I got bloody noses. Very easy when I was that age. So I get to the top, and I'm already super freaked out. So I'm sure my blood pressure is just like through the roof,

and my nose starts bleeding. And I have to stand on top of this thing and I'm supposed to jump off and grab the trapeze and I just completely lost it. I was like petrified with fear. And it's just like this, I remember this as a huge moment of like personal failure of mental discipline and intestinal fortitude

and it sort of stuck with me and And I was really freaked out physically. So that was scary. That's horrible. That sounds horrible. I mean, I'm not an incredibly physical person. So I totally am like, yeah, that's probably me at the top of that thing too. I don't really get nosebleeds. I don't think I've ever gotten an actual nosebleed in my life.

But I bleed from my eyes sometimes. Is that bad? Is that bad? Should I worry about that? Really bad. No, that doesn't happen. That sounds terrifying. All right, so now tell me the most scared you've ever been from a work of fiction.

Sure. So I, and it's, in case anyone's wondering, we didn't plan this. Despite that my answer, these experiences are just so intense that I just know the answers. Yeah, well, we do not plan this at all. We had no prior conversation. And actually when we get done with this I have an unplanned question for you. Oh great. I love that.

That's wonderful. So, when I was younger, my biggest fictional fear, although I wasn't sure if it was fictional and science wise, who knows, I was afraid of aliens. biggest fictional fear although i wasn't sure if it was fictional and uh... science wise who knows you know i was afraid of aliens i wasn't afraid of ghosts and wasn't afraid of murderers was in the friday goblins or leprechauns i was afraid of no one's afraid of leprechauns

haven't you seen the movie leprechaun sure and i think it makes me a less afraid of leprechaun i was afraid of being abducted by aliens because the experiments uh... and i remember seeing the movie Fire in the Sky. Oh God, terrifying. For the first time. And there's still an image from that movie which is burned into my mind. And it's been there so long and I literally haven't seen the movie since that time that I saw it.

That I don't even know if it was in the movie, but I just remember this frame from the movie where there's, it's like a close up on like a rainy window. And there are maybe three or four prints, like where someone's hand would be. And then like the wall, and then like they streak down, like the hand move down or on the condensation, a water droplet rolled down. And it just looks,

I just, when I think of fire in the sky, I remember that. And I just remember the guy getting abducted and getting molested and experimented on. And when I was a little kid, that was like the last thing I ever wanted to happen to me. But now I've matured. And while I'm sure there is intelligent life in the universe, I also understand math and I understand how unlikely it is that they're anywhere near us. And if they are that you're going to be the person they have

docked. I'm very, I'm very uninteresting. So that's my greatest. I just mean you're in a city in a crowded city. And you know, logistically speaking, why do you think I moved to New York? Right, of course, you know, strange numbers. New York, you don't get abducted from New York. The city just gets destroyed. Yeah, that's right. New York doesn't know. He's a ducted in New York City. That That's true in fiction. I just wipe it out. It just obliterated by aliens. They're like, just take that, that looks populated, get it. So, so do you want to answer the question you,

you asked me or do you want my question? I'll answer the question then you can give me your question. Okay. I'm very curious. Okay, go ahead. So the most afraid I've ever been in, in real life. Like, okay, this is an interesting, I haven't really ever thought about this. It's funny, because I thought I was thinking about asking you this earlier, and I hadn't considered what I would answer. Turnabout's fair play, Joshua.

Well, that's very nice. So I think, you know, this is gonna be very personal. Okay. I'm here, I'm here. This is a very personal, I think a very personal answer. All right. When it's pretty recent actually, I by the way, I've been very, very scared on many planes. Like I get I'm the place where I'm probably most freaked out and most sure that like death is coming is is on turbulent flights. Like I really am bad at it. I'm just

like I just lose all all sense of reason. And which is annoying because I have to fly all the time. But I think the most scared I've ever been for real is you know Laura my wife Laura June. We had to have a she had to have a C-section, Zoda was, was breach and transverse, which means she's upside down and backwards, which is really cool. It's a live Zoda awesome way to be in the womb. And so we knew, we should have a C-section, but we sort of it turned out like it ended up being sooner than we thought. And so I was in the room during the C-section, which is a pretty major surgery actually. And Laura was numbed, so they were doing incredible insane surgery on her, but she couldn't feel it. She could feel sensations, but not like pain, right?

Which is great. But you know, there's just the, I don't know how personal I want to, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get a little bit personal. You know, there was a screenup between, between where, I was with her, like looking at her, and talking to her, where her head was and her arms and stuff. And then there was a screen up

and they were doing surgery on her lower half. And underneath where they were doing surgery, there was just blood pooling on the floor. Oh my God. And there were people taking bits of viscera and putting them into a receptacle somewhere. And I was just looking at, and I was just looking at her and I was just thinking like I just never felt more scared or worried.

Wow, have you told her this? Yeah, I think so. I think we've talked about it, but it was terrible. It was unbelievable. I mean, we had a wonderful doctor and everybody there knew what they were doing and it was over like in 15 minutes, it happened so quickly. Yeah. It was ridiculous and obviously like we got zeld out of it, so that's a pretty good deal.

You know, and I have no idea how Laura was able to handle it. Like to me, it's beyond my, I can't even imagine. I had some heart surgery a few years ago. I remember. They put me in twilight sleep as far as I'm concerned. I was out. I don't remember any of it. I was talking about Patreus.

This is right around the Patreus email scandal. I remember, yeah. And I was like, as I was going under, I was like telling them about it because we've covered it on the verge. Yeah. And I was like telling them about like the Patreus coverage. I guess it's a classic me. I'm like, in for a filling them in on some news stories. Is there like, you know, like putting a catheter into my main artery?

Oh, man. Anyhow, so I don't know if that's where you put a catheter, but anyhow, so. Well, there are different types of catheters. No, it was, I had a, I actually had a heart condition called super ventricular tachycardia. SVT. SVT. And in order to treat it, you get something called radio emission oblation where they snake a, it's a laparoscopic, laparoscopic, is it T-R-P?

I think it's Google-izz. I'm going to put my money on T-Latroscopic. Is it? No, we saw it. It's, well, hang on. No, it's a P. Nope. Well, laparoscopic.

At any rate, they put it into like an artery in your leg and then snake this thing up into your where your heart is. And it's actually an interesting problem. The what happens is you've basically got this like nerve in your heart that gets an electrical signal that tells your heart to beat. And there's a little extra part of the nerve and it's once in a while the electrical signal gets caught in that extra part. And it creates a feedback loop, which for me is like a really understandable thing because I used to make techno music, and I used to like deal with like effects,

like tape delay and stuff, which are all based on the concept of a feedback loop. And so like I was like, oh, that's cool. You know, in your heart based on my heart would start like beating like crazy, like super duper fast from 30 minutes, 240 beats per minute for 30 minutes. You know, I went to the hospital several times. I was like, oh my god, I'm dying.

Anyhow, they burn it out with radio waves. They burn out the offending extra nerve bit. Isn't science awesome? Science is amazing. I mean, what people can do in the human body, what medicine, modern medicine can do is unbelievable, which is why, like, when anti-vax people start talking, I like, I tune out completely because I trust modern medicine way more than Jenny McCarthy.

That's just how it's going to be. We could do a whole hour on anti-vax people. We could do a whole hour on it. I'm sure I'm pissing people off, but I don't really care because if you don't vaccinate your kids, you're insane. Yeah, please delete this podcast. And anyhow, so that's the most caret of ever been Laura watching Laura be in that sort of state of just being ripped apart and then being put back together. And it's incredible.

It's incredible, but it was extremely scary. I haven't had children yet. No, you have it. Well, hopefully you won't have to experience that. But you know, whatever, it turned out okay. So then, affectionately, on the fictional side, the most scared I've ever been. So I actually had when I was like young, like it's funny because you mentioned

the alien abduction thing. I had this brief period where I was like, when I was like 10, I read a book, I read a part of, I was reading a book on like, it was like a strange, it was like strange occurrence is book, I don't know, I feel like these were very popular when I was a younger kid.

It was like a book of like each chapter was on some weird thing, like aliens or like, you know, wolf people or you you know, wolf men or whatever. You know, it was like a cult, weird occult and sort of strange occurrences. And one of the chapters was on spontaneous human combustion. Oh my gosh. Are you aware of the phenomena?

Of course, I mean, yeah. Yeah. So I had a, I had a, this is, I don't know, this is the most free to add it, but I had like a month where after reading this book, I was like terrified. I was having like actual, I think I had actual, this is, I don't know, this is the most freaked out. But for, I had like a month where after reading this book, I was like terrified. I was having like actual, I think I had actual like panic attacks that I was going to spontaneously combust, you know? Like it really was, it really was like something I thought like after reading it all,

because the evidence it presents is like, well, you know, people don't know, but there's all these things that could cause it and all these documented cases. And you know, when I was a kid, I was like, oh my God, it must be real. They put it in a book and it's not real. I don't think people can spontaneously combust. I think most of the people who spontaneously can busted like, got there,

because it's like in Victorian London, like somebody like caught on fire in the middle of a dance. And it's like, maybe they bumped into a candle. Like, I don't know if they actually just blew up for no reason. I was like terrified when I was like 10 or 11 that I was going, man, maybe they bumped into a candle. Like, I don't know if they actually just blew up for no reason. I was like terrified when I was like 10 or 11 that I was going to spontaneously combust.

That did not happen, thankfully. But I think, besides that, maybe when I watched the exorcist, and I was way too young to watch the exorcist, and it is a truly disarming and alarming and horrible horrific film. Yeah, not for filming. I think to this day, I think if I watched it right now, I think I would be terrified by it. Yeah. You know, anyhow, so don't, don't let your 12 year old see that.

If you're, if you're a parent, no, no, no, no, it's not for 12 year olds. Mm-hmm. Um, anyhow, okay, so what's your 12, it's not for 12 year olds. Any okay, so what's your question? So my question is, is it much lighter fare, but I think it's interesting, because I think you can learn a lot about someone by what books they have in their bathroom. Okay.

So my question for you is, is what books do you have in your bathroom? If you like, I'll answer it first. See what I'm talking about, you see what I'm talking about, you know, you see how this came back to the feces. So I came back to a shit cover, say, I mean, I don't wanna be a jerk, but I think you came back to to the feces so it came back to shit a shit cover say I mean I don't want to be I don't want to be a jerk but I think you tend to go to the bathroom you know on a regular basis and I don't mean in there everybody's a little bit scatological sometimes all right oh I

think you're more than more than most I currently I don't think we have any books in our bathroom first off we have bathrooms. So that's a tough one. Rub it in, Mr. Suburban. We have a sprawling at this. We have actually, there's a second house next to our house, which is all just bathroom. Pick your favorite bathroom in your favorite wing of your house. I don't think there's any books. I don't think there's any books. We're still kind of moving in though. What do you have in your bathroom? I'll tell you mine, you can tell me if you think it makes sense for me. So I have, I have 50 places you have to dive before you die.

Oh, that's a no brainer. So it's good, but the US Armed Forces Survival Manual. Oh, that's very good. That's very interesting. I think I have that as a, on my wish list somewhere. I have a college archeology textbook. Oh, this is cool. And I have a book called God is very disappointed in you, which is a on my wish list somewhere. I have a college archeology textbook. Oh, this is cool. And I have a book called,

God is very disappointed in you, which is sort of a satirical retelling of the Bible. Oh, that sounds fun. It's super fun. Those all sound, those all sound right up your alley. Yeah. They're appropriately nerdy and also irreverent.

Yeah, it's like nerdy, quirky and offensive. Yeah, that's you. Have you practiced this, have you said that to people before because I feel like that just came out a little bit too easy? Everything that I have said tonight is fresh, just for you. That's what I like to hear. Off the cuff out of my brain. Well, that's what I like.

Okay, so there's a couple other things. We're reaching the hour point here, but there's a couple things I want to- I think we could hold this audience for two hours. No, I think we're not going two hours because it's late at night and I want to do first of I have to get another drink. It's not gonna magically appear.

And also I've been watching this show Bloodline. Have you seen it? I saw the first episode. I can't, it was just, I had never been so incredibly bored in my life. It got a toks in me man. I think you should give it a chance. I know. I think you should watch the second episode because I'm feeling, I'm feeling, I don't know, I'm deep in it and I'm really liking it.

But I was going to say, wait, I don't know, what was they say going to? Oh, I was just talking about what I wanted to do after this podcast. But I wanted to talk about a couple of things that were of interest to me recently. Okay. So I started using something. So obviously, like, now that I'm now that I've got a little down time, I don't know if you do this, but I'm like obsessed with the idea

that I can better organize my life and my time. Like I'm always looking for, and I get into by the way, it's the worst rabbit hole where I'm like, doing something I'm like, man, I need a good to do app. You know, like, I'm like, you know, I got all these things I need to do. I'm like, all right, I gotta get some shit done. And then I'm like, you, I need a good to-do app. You know, like, I'm like, you know, I got all these things I need to do.

I'm like, all right, gotta get some shit done. And then I'm like, oh, you know what, I really help with this? It's a great to-do app. I'm like, what's the best to-do app? And then like, four hours later, four hours later, I'm like on our mechanical keyboard. It's like learning about hotkeys.

Learning about some hotkeys, they're gonna help you like increase, I mean, I don't know anything. Learning about hot keys. Learning about some hot keys. They're going to help you increase. I mean, it's such a crazy problem for me. It's dangerous. You got to be careful. I mean, here's the deal. There is no great to do app.

Here's the best to do app. It's Google Keep. What they're missing is an iOS app and they're missing a Mac application. That's an actual, like, it has a local storage component and anyhow. But like, you know what the best to do app is? A disciplined mind. Well, okay. I even bought, I was at the airport the other day

and I bought this like the Harvard Business Review. They have a series of books down. It's like, how to better manage your time? I'm like, gonna do it, gotta read this. And I like started reading them like, this is a waste of time. Not a good. Not a good reading. It's like, first, it them like, this is a waste of time. Um, not a good. Not a good reading. I'm not gonna have to.

It's like first, it's like first make a list and I'm like not gonna do that. Like I'm just not gonna engage in a homework assignment on this thing. But you could have given the assignment to your assistant. That's what it, well, I should have at the time. Well now and now I have, I think I've got found a temporary assistant, I mean, somebody in the interim.

I'm like, you know, I'm having meetings with people, I'm talking to people and I'm going to do the interim, I'm like, you know, I'm having meetings with people, I'm talking to people, I'm going to do stuff, and still like, you know, I'm still, you know, I keep some irons in the fire, whatever they call it. I don't know if they say it that way. I'm a busy guy, I'm just talking, a lot of people want to talk to me since I've left Bloomberg, which is really lovely and nice,

so I'm having a lot of conversations. But anyhow, but so I'm very disorganized. And so I'll be like, oh, I've got to get the best to do app and then I lose four hours trying to find that. But I've just started using this thing. I literally today, have you heard of Sainbox? No. This is not an ad.

I feel like I've been vaguely pestered by Sainbox and I have no idea if I just gave my email over to some sort of horrible organization, but they basically go into your Gmail. It'll go into, it accesses your Gmail. And it will like get rid of the crap and like better organize it and sort of, I mean, it will bring sanity.

Oh, see, I'm way too much of a control freak to do this. Well, so listen, so some of my, but I had like 2,700 on red messages in my inbox and it was like just seeing the number was making me feel bad about myself. And it felt like I could never, and then I started using it today and I actually think it's sort of helping.

Interesting. It may be helping in the way where it just removes everything from your inbox. Like, but I'm not really sure. Let's just say now I have 638 on red. Uh. Tony Robbins loves it. He says, saying box is the best solution to email overload. Simple, flexible. sure let's just say now I have 638 on red uh Tony Robbins loves it he says

St. Box is the best solution to email overload simple flexible I could never go back to the old technology and they they created this to Tony Robbins legend okay Tony Robbins is I think a major scam artist but if you read our great piece that we wrote on the verge many years ago in 2011's scam world I believe Tony Robbins actually factors into some of the best scams. Somebody made a big trouble. So, St.Bock, this is not an ad,

it knows 2011. It was like, yeah, it was a crescent, I can't big deal. Dude, you loved it so much, it was May of 2012. Oh, son of a bitch. Okay, well, my memory, I'm very old, you know, I'm a very old person.

It's true, basically a decrepit, an ancient person, so I don't know. But, but St.Bock, I started using to say, this is again not an ad, I'm just saying these are things that I'm a very old person. It's true. Basically a decrepit, an ancient person, so I don't know. But same box, I started using to say, this is, again, not an ad. I'm just saying, these are things that I'm into right now because I'm trying to make my life easier. So I'm trying to, I don't know if it's in a good, if you have an, if you're a person who's experienced a same box, good or bad, feel free to email Magnus at tomorrowpodcast.com.

And he would love to hear about that and forward that to me. But also, so I started this, do you know who Kai Brock is? I think you do. Oh yeah, he's the guy who does off screen. I remember I was like, he's the guy who does off screen magazine, which is your portrait when you were in the magazine. That's right, Michael shot pictures of me

for I was in, I didn't interview for off screen, which is this brilliant, beautiful, small magazine. It's like beautifully, has beautiful photographs, really smart writing. It's basically about how people who make things in the digital world, sort of like how they work, how they live.

Except it's in print. You see how that works? It's in print. It's cool. It's really great. And I highly recommend that you subscribe to it or you buy an issue and you read it because it's really good. But I didn't know this, but he started this mailing list, this newsletter called The Modern

Desk, which, and I'm like a list, this newsletter called The Modern Desk, which, and I'm like a such a sucker, it's all stuff like, it's like, better, it's like time management tools, and it's like stuff for your desk to help you organize, and it's like bags and like cable wraps, and all these, it just based like every, I don't know how often he does it.

I don't know how to check that. Themoderndesk.com is the website. And it's like there's like 24 or 20, no it's more than that now. It's like 26 issues of it. You can go read all of them. And I immediately started making purchases. Actually, Sainbox is one of the things.

And maybe it's an ad, I don't know. But Sainbox is one of the things I finally saw it on this and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna try it because I've seen this a bunch of other places. But there's all sorts of really interesting stuff. And I have to say like it's a great resource and I highly recommend. I just subscribed.

Yeah, I highly recommend that people subscribe. And he's a really good guy, super smart, very talented dude and I just think anything he does is probably gonna be worth following. But I've been kind of getting obsessed with this now. And I'm starting to find all these things that I, that you know, it all goes back to me spending money, basically. And again, it's as dangerous, I'm starting to find all these things that I, that, you know, it all goes back to me spending money basically.

And again, it's as dangerous, I'm in a dangerous place right now because I have so much time to just prude and browse and just not work. But then I think I think I'm going to get back to doing a little bit of writing in the near future. It should. Writing. I want to actually speaking of writing, have you used Windows 10 yet? No. I have not used Windows 10 yet. Yeah, because I don't really other than when I use my Bloomberg terminal, I'm not really around PCs, I'm not, you know, and they're not going to be upgrading to Windows 10 for a while. But I'm curious about it, but I just feel like operating systems now are just more than more like an annoyance than anything else. Yeah, I don't find it super interesting. I think we're so, I think we're so, and we've talked about this before, I mean, you and I certainly have, I certainly talked about in the podcast, but we're so in that kind of

valley of innovation and valley of like forward thought on how we are going to and how we should be interacting with these modern devices. It's crazy. You know, like we're using so many old paradigms that don't make any sense for us anymore. When I look at the new version of Windows, or even the new version of OS 10, which is called Al Capitan. Al Capitan. Yeah, I got to try it.

I haven't downloaded the beta. Have you used the beta yet? No, I generally, I don't have a nearly enough free time to screw around with beta's. Well, guess what, I do, and I'm gonna check it out. But I see that stuff, and I'm just like, to me, most of it is just noise. Yeah.

I think it's like, I think we're still pretty far away from whatever that next thing is. Right, the next thing forward. But everything feels clunky to me now. Neely wrote this thing about the mobile web sucking. There's been a lot of talk about that. It's not just the mobile web. It's all sorts of parts of the web.

I think, and I talked about this a little bit with Matt and John last week from the all, but I think we went faster than our technology and our networks can actually handle. And I do think, like, you look at the web, what you can do on the web now, and it's incredible. But it's still like, you know, you know, like a native app versus a web experience, there's still this big valley, this golf, golf rather, or delta. I think there's never been more brilliant creative people making amazing stuff on various platforms, but I also feel like in the world of user experience, we're at the point where we're trying to stuff 10 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag,

and we need to make the bag bigger. Right, that's what I, yeah. Or yeah, you gotta get it, maybe you should use a box. Sure. That's what I, yeah. Or yeah, you got to get it. Maybe you should use a box. Sure. You know, maybe this shit would be better. And see you, by the way, I just want to point out that you went back to, you went back to a scatological reference.

I was right into that one, didn't I? Oh, you really stepped in it. Anyhow. Just nailed that. Just nailed it. Perfect. No, I do think, I do think I'd say, and I do think that's part of the reason why I'm like using Sainbox and trying to find ways to like organize my life better because I still think that we're,

like we are, you know, there is not like a natural, we don't have a natural relationship with technology yet. And I think we've started to taste it a little bit with mobile devices and with phones and tablets, but it's still not there. We've tasted it a little bit with mobile devices and with phones and tablets, but it's still not there. We've tasted it a little bit with what VR is doing right now, obviously the HoloLens stuff is, but there is no natural. Everything is an abstraction.

Well, everything's an abstraction layer and I think that that works to a point and then it doesn't. I think swiping is one of the things that has been, I think it's an incredibly natural, feels very, it feels very frictionless. For like pull to refraction. And I think pull to refrache is one that feels frictionless. I think swiping, I think when you see some of the new stuff that people are doing with

sort of more articulated or nuanced swiping gestures and obviously apps like Tinder that are totally relying on swiping Yeah, I think that's a really supernatural way for us to interact You know, I think pinched a zoom at first seem like this really natural thing, but now I Hate pinched a zoom. I really bothers me to have to pinch the zoom or something Well, I never really quite sure where it exists and where it doesn't exist Yeah, you want you want to be a continuous flow of your experience

and I don't know that it feels like it's ever happening. And it's particularly pronounced on the web. It's particularly pronounced on a laptop and even on a tablet. Like I find my iPad like crushingly hard to use. It doesn't feel like it's there for me. Do you think I know it's IOS is going to ameliorate that? No, I think it will help a little bit.

The side-by-side app stuff is interesting and I think that will be useful and that will help alleviate some of the jumping around. But I still feel like there's just something that's very staccato about the experience. You know, this is a man of music. But it just feels like a lack of fluidity. And I think someone's going to crack that. And it's maybe a combination of things like voice recognition and motion recognition and gestures.

But somewhere, you know, in eye tracking, and somewhere along the line, we're going to get a device that feels less like a square dance and more like a ballet perhaps. Now listen, that sounded very creepy to me the way you said that. And I don't know if it's good. Well, I got really close to the microphone. Yeah, I don't know if it's that Skype was breaking up

at the moment because you did sound like kind of like a robotic, like a demon. Oh, that might be, that's definitely Skype. But also like maybe you just sounded like a robotic demon. I don't know. It was terrifying, now I can tell you. All right, so maybe we should wrap up or a little bit over here. And not that demon. I don't know. It was terrifying, no, I can tell you. All right, so maybe we should wrap up or a little bit over here and not that I don't have a problem

with that, I could certainly ramble with you all day long. I really, I could just keep going all night, but we both have a- I'd like to keep going, but I have to get another drink because this, you know, this is all I'm gonna drink. So obviously my man has now reached like a solid 90 degrees. I'm just covered in like a sheen of moisture all over my body.

Yeah, okay, wow. That's, please Google Michael Shane and then think of his body covered in a sheen of moisture. You know where your body will get covered in a sheen of moisture is when you're scuba diving in the ocean. Yeah, I just, you went to Iceland. I did, and we, and you scuba diving.

Yeah, I'm very lucky. Scuba dove, scuba dove, scuba dive. I don't know. That do a nice idea. Scooby-dove, Scooby-dove, Scooby-dive. I don't know. That's a good question. Scooby-dive. I'm very lucky because my fiance is generally my dive buddy. We both love to dive. That's so cool, isn't it?

There's a really famous dive spot in Iceland called Silfra, which is this fisher where the North American and the Eurasian tectonic plates are pulling apart. And they're pulling apart at a rate of about two centimeters a year. And so this, what is now essentially a small canyon, is filled with the most incredibly pure, beautiful and cold fresh water. So it's about, you know, three to six degrees Celsius. So it's barely above freezing. You have to dive in a dry suit, but the water's so clear, you can't even see that it's there. It tastes amazing.

There's really, you can't see, like you don't have any sense that you're in water. Yeah, unless there's some sediment or something floating in the water, it's the clearest water I've ever seen in my life. There's not really any animal life to speak of, although sometimes you see little baby fish, but that's not really why you dive to speak of, although sometimes you see little baby fish, but that's not really why you dive it. I mean, it's just, it's mind blowing

that if you can swim to your left or your right, I forget which is which, and you can touch the North American plate, and then you can swim to the other side, and you can touch the Eurasian plate, and you're like right there. I mean, it was a transcendent diving experience, and it's not always like that. Sometimes you're just in the ocean or a body of of water and you see some cool fish and it's beautiful and you're having a good time. But this was sort of like, it was almost like meditation. And that's sort of, as I love to dive, because when I'm diving, I enjoy it from the nerdy side because there's really cool technology and interesting gadgets and you have to think about things like, you know, physics and pressure and things of that nature. But there's also so much of that stuff to consider and so

much going on that you can't think about anything else. You know, you don't think about work or the internet or anything like that. And so that's that's one of the main reasons why I left to dive in addition to the wildlife. But this place, there was no wildlife, there's no current, right? The water's completely still. I mean, it's basically like diving on another planet. It was amazing. Wow. I mean, I have to say, that sounds like

nothing has ever made me want to go scuba diving as bad as what you just said. And I have no desire to go scuba diving, really. So I mean, I feel like that sounds like the most compelling and interesting experience you can have on the planet. It is amazing. That's nuts. Now, the one interesting, what, go ahead.

Sorry, go ahead. No, you go ahead. No, no, you go. I was going to say the water is, when you dive, you wear a hood, you know, neoprene hood and you wear a dry suit. So your body doesn't get wet, but your, your hood and your gloves are normal wetsuit, which means a layer of water, you do get wet, and your body heats up the water that's trapped inside. But when you first go under, in a place like Silphora, it's so cold that you basically get an extremely sharp and intense headache

for about three minutes until your face goes numb. And then you're good to go for the rest of the dive. It's kind of surreal. How long were you under? It's not a super long dive, because you swim in one direction and then you get out. It's like 30 minutes per dive and you generally do two dives. Yeah, but 30 minutes underwater.

Well, for recreational diving, that's pretty short. I mean, when you're in warm tropical water. I know, but I've only been underwater for like 30 seconds. I know, it's it. You know, normally when you're in warm tropical water, I know, but I know but I've only been underwater for like 30 seconds. I know. Normally when you're in like tropical water, it's more like an hour. So that's amazing. It's been an hour underwater. I feel like I'm so I've known nothing about scuba diving. Well, I mean, that's it's weird that we've never really talked about that. Yeah. Well, I mean, the thing is when you take your first breath on scuba and you're literally breathing underwater, it's sort of a mind-opening experience because all of a sudden you're experiencing the physical world in a way that you never have before.

Yeah. No, it's crazy. I just didn't think about it. You're, you're in a place that's physically impossible to access without the apparatus of a scuba equipment. And I guess that would be a totally mind-changing mind-blowing... This makes me want a scuba dive. You convinced me. You got to give me some lessons. I'm a certified dive master, so if you want, I can help you out.

Well listen, come out here. Come will hop in the pool. You can give me some basics. Nice, I'll bring the pool. Yeah, thank you. Excellent. Anyhow, okay, but I was gonna say what was interesting about that is the thing that you said about

that sort of like it just clears your mind and you don't think about work, you don't think about problems or whatever. That's why I started riding motorcycles. I mean, and by the way, I haven't ridden that much, but the first time I was on one with a friend, I mean, a friend, I bought one on a whim for cheap, very cheap. And then I rode it with a friend,

and I mean, I rode it not with a friend on it, but he sort of taught me how to ride. And I basically just rode around like a neighborhood for a few hours, and it was like, you're so busy just having that, just doing that thing. I mean, it's technically quite complicated, but it's just like you've got to focus on the ride, essentially. Yeah.

Everything else falls away. Everything else is just gone. That sounds like it. It sounds like very much the same thing. Yeah, and it's really liberating. I mean, I think there is a meditative quality to it, and it sounds like the same thing for scuba diving. And I think that probably in life,

we get too few of those types of experiences. Yeah, well, and I try to, you know, it's honestly like my getting things done, like technique for lack of a better term is to make sure that I have those experiences regularly. Cause to me, that's what sort of keeps my mind agile and like for free of junk, you know? You're good at, you're good at vacation.

Like you'll take a vacation. I will. Like you'll go do it and then you're out and then you'll come back and that's very smart. I am bad at that and I always over complicate things and I always, you know, you should do it. I mean, the moment we end this podcast, you should go on vacation. Yeah, I, it'll be close to the moment we end it. I think it might be slightly after, but I'll try, I'll try to take your advice. Anyhow, on that note, I think we should wrap up. Okay. Sounds good. Oh, God, it's very late. I hope the audience enjoyed this.

I listen, I, you know, I'm sure those guys I love this. Yeah, screw the audience. No, I listen, I think that if they like intelligent conversation and two great friends sharing, sharing and living and laughing and loving, then I think that they'll enjoy this. There's a lot of love on this Skype call. And then on the other hand, it's also free, you know, so... Free is good. It's not like we're taking money out of your pocket. All right, so we should wrap up. Michael, thank you for, yeah. Thank you for, thank you for joining me. This is my pleasure. This has been a really interesting and frankly, eye opening. Yeah, I mean, look, and I think we've only scratched the surface.

So as long as you don't get too much hate mail, you know, we should do it again. Oh, we're gonna do it again. We're gonna do it again real soon. All right, that's the podcast for this week. My thanks again to Michael Shane, Michael Yura champion, your wonderful human. I'll be back next week of course with more tomorrow.

And until then, I wish you and your family the very best. Here's hoping they don't end up in very cold water somewhere in the ocean. you