Tomorrow - Episode 20: Joanna Stern's Special Message

Episode Date: August 24, 2015

Josh and Joanna Stern were co-workers, friends, and podcasting partners for years. Now covering technology and gadgets for the Wall Street Journal, Joanna reunites with her former partner in crime for a nerdy chat in the Tomorrow studio. The duo discuss the mess of multiple messaging platforms, how you should feel about Windows 10, the dog behavior of humaning, and the past, present and future of the future of tech. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to Tomorrow. I'm your host, Josh, with Tupolsky. I have a very special guest today, an old friend, an old colleague, and a great mind, maybe the greatest mind of our generation, the writer and thinker. Joanna's turn. And special guest. And special guest. Joanna's turn. I'm a special guest. I'm a special guest. It sounds like your son upset about that. I love you. I've been a special guest all my life.

Yeah. On this, in this world. Wow. Wow. This is not a therapy session. Oh, wait. It may actually, it may actually, we may actually go into the area of therapy at some point, I think you and I. I think we need to go there. I think we too. Sir

couch. I want to talk about, there's no couch here. There are two comfortable chairs at a beautiful new table from Restoration Hardware in the studio. Who's not a sponsor? Restoration Arbor is not a sponsor, but you kid that I, this is a beautiful table. They will be after today That all they want is to average there like are there any nerdy podcast we can advertise Paul's coming in there's a sound issue is it because that I'm hearing this You just you've just set back more don't turn away I'm so dare turn away from that mic. Sleeping at the doctor. Yeah, right. The eye doctor. The dead isters over there.

It's like, please sit still and put your head forward. You know what this is? It's supposed to be natural. Paul wants you to be natural. He wants to put the mic where you're going to be most natural. That's what he does. Okay, anyhow, so. So you really are going for this natural vibe in here.

You've got this thing, this, uh, yeah. This is a tapestry. A Mediterranean tapestry. I don't think it's Mediterranean. It feels like it. It's tapestry there, right Paul? A mud cloth you've got that you've got this natural wooden restoration hardware table Don't sponsor, but it's very nice wood. Yeah, well, this is you know, this is the I don't know in this studio Just to be clear. It's this Paul studio feels like you do Just to be clear, it's this Paul's studio. Feels like you do, Mommy.

Yeah. This. It's beautiful here. Okay. I would have your vibe is right now, I really like it. It's, it's meditative, it's slow, it's my thought. It's these mics, like the mic. So let's talk, I wanna get into this because you are very concerned about the mic because

you can hear like that. You can hear it like that. I just wanna say when I made that noise with my mouth which is like my lips smacking or whatever, Joanne, she cringe, like physically had a reaction, like a cringe, like it. It's like, it. It's like it.

It looks like something hit Joanne, I wanna do that. You can hear this, oh gosh. Oh, she really doesn't like that noise. It's this, and it happens on many podcasts. Like I just say, can I just say something? This is gonna go a little bit, it's gonna get a little bit sexual. Yeah, that's what it sounds like.

But like, that sound when I hear it, it sounds a lot like the kissing sound. Yes, exactly, but like a bad kisser. So when you're kissing, bringing me back. So when you're kissing your wife, do you also cringe? Joe's a recoil at horror, is that what happens? No, we,

you don't need that. And we don't need to go down that road. You don't like that sound though. We don't have those kinds of, it's very, you don't kiss like that. No, it's reminding me of like terrible kissing. A bad kiss.

Really bad kissing. So that, so that sound to you is a bad kiss. Yes. So you're saying that a good kiss you wouldn't hear the sounds. I think you're wrong about that. I think maybe you would hear them, but not as pronounced. You'd be kissing. So probably would matter as much.

Okay, so anyhow, we got that out of the way. No, there's no avoiding it now. You understand that, right? Like, you're gonna hear some of that because we're... I'm not, I'm trying not to breathe into the mic. Well, don't, like, it's driving them nuts. Don't like do a, don't be, yeah, don't move away from the mic. Well, don't like driving them nuts. Don't like do a don't be yeah Don't move away from the mic. You're not tazoned. Right. You know

Brie. Pause a set pause. The breathing is acceptable acceptable. It's natural which this setup I feel like is the next experiment. Magnus also said Magnus who are pretty as from Sweden said that kissing is also natural Magnus who's are pretty is from Sweden said that kissing is also natural It's just it's continue with the natural vibe. I feel like they're probably good kissers from Sweden and they don't have this I don't know. I wouldn't know. No, you think they don't make that noise in the kiss Okay, all right, and this is gonna take us a direction. Let's move out of this valley Up the mountain side to the peak So Jenna we haven't we have not podcasted in a very long time. So you remember the last time we were in a podcast

situation together? Maybe it, maybe it, Vergecast 215. Well, maybe it's CES. Yeah, actually it was. The last CES that I was at with the Verge. I think you joined us from Vergecast. I do my annual CES for a cast.

You checked in, you had a new baby stroller that you were into. I was at ABC, I think. Oh yeah, right. Oh, that's right. And you guys made a lot of, made fun of Diane Sawyer. No, we love Diane. We love Diane. We love the whole Sawyer family as a matter of fact. And we probably talked about gadgets. We might have, at the consumer electronics show, a group of people who have covered. We might have, at the consumer electronics show, a group of people who have covered consumer electronics might have had a conversation about consumer electronics. I can't even remember one note worthy thing from that show.

Nor can I remember one from this past year. Vibrating for it. Yes. Was it that year? No, that was the year of the happy fork too. Actually, I think we talked about it. Oh, then I had already joined the journal. Then I went in my first year at the journal.

Yeah, maybe. And I was telling you. I had just reviewed the happy fork. This is gripping stuff. Yeah, this is terrible stuff. I didn't know it was listening. The happy fork is, okay, Magnus is asked because he's from Sweden, he doesn't know

what the happy fork is. The happy fork is. No, nobody knows what the happy fork is. Well, I mean, you go on the street here in New York and no one knows what the happy fork is. You were, you were nobody knows what the happy fork is. Well, I mean, you go on the street here in New York and no one knows what the happy fork is. You were, you were a few so. Don't make fun of the. You loved the happy fork.

I loved the happy fork. I didn't really, but it was my first comment at the journal and it is a fork that vibrates when you eat too fast. Yeah, like if you're shoveling it in. This is, this is for me for Americans. Every like three seconds or something. This is for people who cannot control themselves. it in, this is, this is for me for Americans or something. This is for people who cannot control themselves. They have to have it. It was for fat Americans.

It's for fat. It's for people who are so out of control with their eating that the fork itself must give you feedback that you're eating too quickly. Yes. And it was terrible. I can't believe it. It was not a good fork. It was a great. Magnus just made a very funny joke despite the fact that he's Swedish. He said it sounds like a sad fork. It's not a sweet hate. No, I love the Swedes. I love Magnus.

I don't know what the Swedes give us. Can I just take, we're going to hold on. I want to get to that. Spotify. A first off they are IKEA. That's the first one that you should think of. Swedish meatballs. I also Finland. The Swedish chef, no, Ikea is from Sweden. Oh yeah, the meatball. The Ikea colors. And there are logo are the Swedish flag

unless I'm mistaken, Magnus. No, I'm not mistaken. And the Swedes have also given us, you know, one of the great socialist governments in the world, one of the greatest socialist experiments that has worked his success in the world. And he said the zipper. The zipper from Sweden.

He believes so. I think let's just get a little more data on that before. He's going to go update Wikipedia right after this. And yeah, so we haven't talked in a long time and this is so far going about how I expected to be disappointed and insane. So you're at the journal now, the Wall Street Journal. You've been there for a couple of years. Working on Wall Street. Working on Wall Street. You love one of your things that I remember at the verge now, the Wall Street Journal. You've been there for a couple of years. Working on Wall Street.

You're working on Wall Street. You love one of your things that, yeah, I remember at the verge we talked about a lot, you were like, I like it here, but I don't feel like I'm journaling Wall Street enough. Yeah, you know, and I said, well, maybe there's a place that would be, you'd be better suited to, but first you went to Wall Street. First you went to ABC for some reason,

which I'm really interested in, I guess, because of Diane Sawyer. Yes. And she on ABC, she is. Yes. Is she on ABC? She is on ABC. She's on ABC. Okay. And anyhow, you're the journal now

and you write about technology. You review technology. I do that all. You do. And you are still, you told me today when you were coming in that you're still receiving tremendous amounts of hatred by suggesting that the MacBook, that a Mac book is the best

Windows computer you can buy. I am currently receiving that. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Tell me a little bit about where that's coming from. You said this shouldn't turn into a therapy session. No, let's have it be a little bit of a therapy session. Okay. Well, people ask me all the time, what is the best laptop?

And I always used to say for $200 more or $300 more, you should just get the MacBook. They're like, I'm thinking about getting this to Shiba. Yep. And then you'd say, well, you know, a couple hundred bucks more. Yeah, this is actually a thing with this. This was the thing at the verge. At the verge, you would do a review of a laptop. You'd say, well, it's good, but for a

couple hundred dollars more, you get a MacBook and it's really the best laptop you can buy. And I did a review a couple of weeks ago of Windows 10, and actually my take on Windows 10 versus Mac, and kind of came to this realization that these operating systems are very similar. At this point, I don't know if you use Windows 10, but it, I actually, a little bit of an aside here, I have not used Windows 10.

I am currently not writing professionally at the moment. I'm taking a little professionally at the moment. I'm taking a little bit of break here. And I have no, yeah, maybe. And I have no reason to use or review Windows 10. And so I actually, I got a service out the other day. And I was like, I should install Windows 10 on this just to check it out.

I haven't gotten around to it yet because I've been cleaning out my office, but at home. Because I've been doing everything else I could possibly do. I've literally been like putting new door knobs on things and installing outlets and just random stuff. Yeah, like real busy work. But so I haven't used it. I did see some of the stuff that you did,

but you're sort of basically saying that OS 10 and Windows 10 are now. Kind of the same when it comes to features. Like in terms of managing your windows and doing these things, it's really very similar to software features when you put two apps side by side, or Microsoft ripped off expose, or mission control, all these things sort of.

Or did they rip off a mission control? Yeah, looks great. That's my favorite part of my experience. Yeah, exactly. It's easy to get between things. The point of that piece was like it really comes down to now, the apps that you can have and also what phone you have in your pocket. This week I did a piece on...

This will have been out by the time you hear this podcast. It will have been out. You'll have been able to read this. Yes. Don't worry about the timeline, but you wrote a piece. Right. Tell us about your piece. Okay, I'll tell you about Joy to tell us about your piece. I'll tell you about my big piece over here

Is wrong what's wrong with you? What is wrong with you you went there? I didn't go anywhere I just say you wrote a piece. That's what you call when you write something is it a video or did you write? I did I did I did a writing piece and a video piece. Two pieces. Two pieces. To the puzzle. That makes the complete puzzle.

That's right, that makes the beautiful image which you're about to tell us. Yes, so Windows 10 is great. And then I went in search of great Windows laptops or hardware or whatever. I really still think a laptop is the best way to use your computer. Everyone should just be able to use the internet. Yeah, no, people should be having laptops on it. You laptop is the best way to use your computer. Everyone should just be in the internet.

Yeah, no, people should be having laptops on it. You just have a laptop that's the best way to use your computer, I think. The laptops are the best computer. You should be using laptops in the street to have a phone. I agree. I think everyone should just have laptops on it. Well, in place of a phone. Yes.

It's an extreme statement. Okay, a lot of you're really unhinged right now. You're going to see. Eventually laptops are going gonna be the future. Yeah, exactly, it works. So I tested 16 different Windows laptops. God, it has it. This is the stack of them.

Do you have a photo or something? I do, yeah. You turn it around so I can see it. It starts down there. Oh, it's a GIF. It's a GIF. Oh, look at that. You know, the old laptop stock.

Stack. The old laptop stack. The old laptop stock. It's very hard to say laptop stack. And all of those 16 different windows laptop. They're getting squashed by the waves. Because the plastic is so cheap that they're all getting squished down. It's amazing. Let me explain what I'm looking at right now. It's a GIF or a GIF starting with one laptop against a white background, a laptop sitting, and more and more laptops stack up on top of it. And as they stack up, you can actually see the plastic of the bottom laptop and other laptops compressing

because of the weight. It's like a laptop presser. It's like a laptop press. Yeah. I'll turn around. I should say this is a Macb-Aer that you're using. Out of all these 16 different Windows laptops I tested. The error was probably the second best at running Windows,

if not the best. Dell makes a really, the XPS 13 is a really nice laptop. I love the XPS 13. Yeah, and so I always get this crap that I'm this big huge Apple fan and I can't see beyond, but the truth is, is that Apple's just making the best hardware, even for Windows and Microsoft software. I don't think it's a controversial statement. I don't either.

I mean, they make better hardware than most people. They do. The hardware is actually the place where I think Apple excels, frankly. I mean, if you look at hardware design, I would say if you take software and hardware design side by side, Apple is not at the front at the top of the my favorites in terms of software design and frankly execution. So for the features too. Yeah, I mean like service is well, right. But I think on the hardware side, it's hard to.

Right, I mean everything that I've done a lot of this over the last couple of months, Google Photos, Apple Music, Android Auto. When you look at the competition between Apple and Google, Microsoft not even being part of that race in terms of the services, Google's always doing better. Not only in terms of what they offer. And yeah, software, the design of the software,

the services they offer with it, it's just superior. Right, wow. Controversial. Yeah, so if you've written aboutial. Have you written about that? I've written about that. You've written about Google being superior in software and services? Yeah, I mean, I wrote about it in the photos piece. Yeah, photos is great.

Yeah. I mean, I love photos. I mean, I'm using the Android phone right now. But so photos is perfectly integrated. And before that, I was using Google Plus only really for the photos feature, which is the same thing as Google photos, except they broke it out. But it really is like this kind of seamless,

set it and forget it thing that you would like. That for some reason it seems so easy for Google to do and so hard for Apple to pull off. And when you really like, I mean, part of Google's strength is that they go cross-platform and they are going to make everything work on every device and obviously in the web browser. That's Apple's biggest struggle, right?

They've done it with music, but they don't do it with photos. They don't do it with eye message. They don't do it with too many other things. Right, male. Male, right. One of the other things, calendar. Yeah, I mean, what are the other things? I don't know.

Just like basic things that you need to do on your devices. Yeah. I'm always running into that. I'm reminding you. I think I actually love Google Keep. I don't know if you've used it at all. I haven't used it since I came out. I haven't used it as my main, like, list making, note taking, and reminder app.

And it is, I mean, I think it's like this kind of weird sleeper. I don't even know if it's a hit. I think nobody's talking about it. But for some reason, they haven't made of weird sleeper. I don't even know if it's a hit. I think nobody's talking about it, but for some reason they haven't made an iOS app, which I don't understand, because it's very smooth. It's fine up, I use that much. It's very straightforward,

but I think if they made an iOS app, it would be used a lot, because it's really, really good. Siri being another one, by the way, like the personal assistant. I can actually say, I don't want to talk about this. I mean, I have been using,

so I've been using sort of begrudgingly a Galaxy S6. I bought an international version, which I should say the international version of a phone versus like the one you buy on AT&T is the, there's a huge difference in like really how much crap is on there and how much, how many stupid tweaks exist. Like in the, so you just bought it unlocked. Yeah, I bought it unlocked. Yeah, it's great. The version like always says AT&T and it's so stupid. Anyhow, it's got like a notification for The 18th version always says AT&T, and it's so stupid,

and it's got a notification for it. And they have their AT&T drive maps. It's terrible. Crap apps. It's all good. I mean, you can disable them, but the S6 has problems. It's not a perfect phone by any means.

I think Samsung has put way too much crap into the software. It still is staggering and sluggish in ways that it shouldn't be. If you use a stock Android device by comparison Yeah, you can see clear differences like they really fucked up the software like I think it's pretty better It's better, but it's still fucked up right but what is not fucked up is Google now and Google now is like and Google search voice search functionality which I have to say is

Ridiculously good by comparison to Siri. I mean you can say sometimes I'm thinking there's no way it's gonna Understand what I'm saying at all and it totally gets the full sense and gives me the information I'm looking for very quickly. I mean there's no pausing. There's no thinking. I have to say like by comparison I don't know if you've had this experience even you can you can use it on the Google app for iOS right? It's just like a much better much more sensible reasonable functional version of what version of what's in the store. Oh, maps is another one. Oh, maps is, yeah. Yeah, I couldn't think of them before, but now I'm thinking of all of them.

I mean, and actually in my column for next week, which I know we're not supposed to talk about timeline. When you talk about timeline, I'm just saying the next week will be, will have passed by the time people hear it. So my, my column for next week is about CarPlay. What is the week of what? I don't know, what days to that. What's next week? Well, it would have come play. What is the week of what? I don't know. What day is that?

What's next week? When would it come out? It's going to come out August 18th. Okay. And it's about car play. Yeah. I reviewed Android Auto a few months ago and actually loved it. Yeah. Because you finally get Google Maps in your car. I think I tweeted maybe your review and yeah. I mean, I, I basically, one of the reasons I actually started to think about switching back to Android, because I was using an iPhone, was the auto integration and how like there's no way I'm using Apple Maps. In the car. Right.

And in my car maps suck. Like, all car systems are the worst. Like the worst. And I'm telling you, as a person who has, you know, we had to buy Laura a new car because we moved to like the country where you have to drive everywhere. And I have a relatively new car like a new car. You really moved to the country. It's the, I mean, where I live, it's not really the suburbs.

Really? Yeah, like you need a whole house generator and they said not to let Penny outside because we don't have a horse, but we are near several horse farms. You have a buggy. Yeah, we have a buggy. No horse though, we're still looking in the market. But they were like, don't let Penny go outside by herself because she'll get taken by a coyote or like a hawk. So Penny is, Magnus wants me to tell you, he just broke in here. He felt that maybe you don't

know that Penny is a, is a Chihuahua who sleeps like a human. Who sleeps like a human? You know my dog sleeps like a human and I always think about your dog that you have a dog. I want to talk about your dog in a second, named browser. Yeah, he's cross platform. He runs in Android Auto and CarPlay. And you've made this joke before. No, I haven't.

This is very good. I want to talk about browser because it's an amazing dog name. Yeah. But anyhow, pennies of Chihuahua, and they said, don't let her go outside by herself because she'll get taken by another animal. So I feel like I'm that's fairly

Country it that is very country. Yeah, well, you know, I'm a little bit country. Yeah, so I mean I think it's hard because you don't want to buy a car Based on what phone you have and many of these cars should actually end up running car play and Android Auto Yeah, why I get I'll get a new car next year, so I'm well you should get this Corvette. I'm testing I'm not gonna get a fucking Corvette. In a million years, I Josh Tupulski will never drive a Corvette. That's what I'm testing right now. Maybe like a really cool vintage, like 60s Corvette. Right before I came here.

I'm gonna hate sports cars, to be honest with you. I know, I have no idea what I'm doing in this car. I can't believe you drove here in a Corvette. Right before I came here, they came and they dropped the Corvette at my office and they gave me a walkthrough. Yeah. And I was like, what is this? Where, the like the Spadometer goes up to 250, what is that?

No, it does it really? Yeah, it looks like something like that. Corvette, that's not a perfect, I mean, I guess, you know, whatever, it's cool. If you like Corvette, that's fine. I'm not gonna judge you, but I'm judging. I mean, it's pretty awesome that that's what I'm driving for the next day.

You drove it over here? No, I didn't, but I had them drop in in my bed. You're driving. I don't know how to drive. You don't know how to drive? I go out to drive. Okay, Jesus. I grew up in New Jersey. You have to know how to drive there.

Do you have to? So I'll be driving around in the Corvette testing car play. Wait, so we were talking about something. Why are we talking about car play? We're talking about services and Apple versus Google in this world and Microsoft on the fringe. When you were saying you reviewed CarPlay. You're reviewing CarPlay.

I'm reviewing CarPlay for next week. I did the Android Auto review. Would you like a lot? Which I loved. I really thought Google Maps especially is a reason to get that. Totally agree. Problem is on CarPlay, you can't get Google Maps. You can only get Apple Maps.

Of course. So it's this whole ecosystem lock. Lock and it's the biggest problem facing the world right now. I call it the ecosystem trap. It is a trap though. It is, it's also like how these companies have figured out like in a way in the same way on the internet how we've all decided like the only way to make money is ads that you know most people except for the Wall Street Journal, they sell subscriptions.

So if you have like a hundred year old legacy business that can work anyhow. But we've also decided that these companies decided the only way to guarantee our users will never leave and they'll keep buying our stuff, is to just lock them in on every possible front where they communicate or work. And it sucks, but it's kind of true. It's like Apple has given enough leeway to developers to let them like Google has made a lot of good apps for their for Apple phones. I'm happy to keep buying an Apple phone and to use Google Maps. Like that to me is my ideal situation. But like the way Apple has forced Google to implement Google Maps on their their phone means it can't really be integrated into all the other things I do on the phone.

And therefore it makes it a pain to the user. So the only person that I mean, yes, they're hurting Google in some way, but I think more to the point they're hurting their users by not letting them have, like, be able to make decisions about what they do on their devices. And part of that is, like, and part of that's different strategies for the different companies, Apple wants us to buy all their hardware, right? And one of the reasons actually say that when you're buying a PC now that the phone in your pocket can drive that decision more than anything is because if you're using Google Services,

it really doesn't really matter what operating system you're using. You can use Chrome, you can use Windows, you can use Mac, you can use an iPhone, it does work better with Mac. So there's this whole sort of play happening across these companies. In my opinion, the iPhone's at the center of it. Right? The iPhone is going to fuel a lot for Apple, whether it goes for whatever happens next with this iPad, whatever happens next with their Mac line. Right.

And yeah, they keep making semi-crapie. You know, their services in many respects are better than Microsoft's. Right, that to me is not up for debate. Yeah, but that Microsoft has done some decent stuff. It was the new outlook. Yeah, that's a great app. It's a pretty good mail app. Yeah. I have to say on the iPhone. Yeah, that's a great app. There's a version for Android, which I haven't used because I feel like it's going to be hard to,

not that Gmail is great, but it's not, I mean, I can't wait for what? Well, at the journal, we're finally going to Google apps. Yeah, that's the way to do it. So I'm so excited for that. That to me is, to me, that's, and then I'm like, should I get an Android phone, but I can't get an Android phone?

This is the whole, like, play. Like, it happens to me, like, I want to get an Android phone, but I'm on an iMess? This is the whole play. Like it happens to me, I wanna get an Android phone, but I'm on iMessage and I can't break away from iMessage. So let's talk about this. Like messaging is at the core of this and it's really messed up. I wanna talk about this because I will say, I really, I can really vent with you about this

because I think you have a similar frustration and I think it's, so I'll set the stage in talking about this by saying that as I said, I recently switched to an Android phone after using an iPhone for a pretty long time. And I always go back and forth. But what has become a cute, like an acute problem, it really was the, I would say the only problem

that I had in migrating my life over to... I know what you're gonna say. ...an Android phone. The only issue, in the thing that's still to this day after a couple of months of using it that is still plaguing me and I'm having issues with, we just had a conversation about it when you came in the studio, is I message. And the way it hijacks your entire existence in the text messaging sphere. And basically, once you give it whatever other thing it is that it needs, the email address

or your Apple user name or whatever it is, and people start, and other Apple devices start recognizing that as your primary way to contact you, it ruins your ability to ever leave the iPhone. It really makes it difficult. And you're almost guaranteed. I would say that the way it is structured, and I think this is like, it's either negligent and really like damaging from Apple,

or it's totally on purpose. That you're- I think it's, I think it's, I think it's not paid attention to it. You're almost guaranteed to like, lose messages, miss messages, and have a really bad experience communicating with people after you leave the I message platform.

And it's still that group messaging is really terrible if you are on Android and people are in I message? I haven't had, I mean, I don't know, because it's like, the thing that's most insidious about this problem is that you don't know what you don't know, like you don't know what you miss. You're probably just in 10 conversations. I mean, I very well could be, you know,

I haven't had any like what I consider to be tragic moments. But I also don't know because I'm not sure that I'm fully, I'm not really still fully disconnected from. In fact, I opened my computer the other day and I still have I message set up. Oh yeah, and a million pop up. And I got, yeah, I got some messages

and it's like how, like, and here's what Apple does into. What they don't do and what should be so simple, is one of two things, or maybe both of these things. One is to say, if you send an iMessage to this address that no longer has a receiver, that the rescender would get a message saying, this is no longer, you know, use, this is their text messaging number,

this is their default phone number, whatever, or this is the last number that we had or whatever. Or it somehow forwards that, if it is the last number that we had or whatever. Or it's somehow forwards that, if it's like a format that can be forwarded to SMS. So what's probably happening, and this is like getting really into the nitty-gritty of it, is like somehow you are like Joshua Topolsky at iCloud.com or whatever,

is what's getting these text messages and you're not getting them for these messages. I think that's, yes, I don't know how much it's happening now because at this point I have, I mean, of course, anytime somebody picks up their phone who has my iMessage, like name or email address in there. Yeah. Anytime somebody picks that up,

that's going to be the first thing that it offers to use. And it doesn't really shut it down. Now, the issue is, the bigger issue is that, this speaks to that ecosystem lock-in that we're talking about, but it also is like we have a messaging, like this is like a messaging apocalypse. There's a messaging now. It is a depression.

It is, and we have a real, I mean, David Pierce, former colleague and friend who is at Wired, wrote about this recently. A great piece. Very good piece. And it talks about, I mean, essentially, what's going on is you've got like hangouts and I message and WhatsApp and group me and like, there's a hundred other things I could list.

WeChat is now like one that's really huge. It's huge. It's getting big elsewhere. And all of them do basically the same thing. They're like an all in one, like you can message somebody, you can have group messaging, you can send maps, you can send photos, you can send videos, you can send audio.

They're kind of like, they have stickers. Oh, Facebook Messenger is the other big one. Facebook Messenger is another big one, yeah. Right. And none of them talk to each other, none of them work with each other. And they, And you're lucky if they work across platform,

actually all of them probably work across a cross platform other than I message. Well, I said to Laura today, I was like, don't even text me anymore. I was like, just use hangouts because hangouts works on your iPhone. Is she having iPhones still? Yeah, yeah, she's on iPhone.

Yeah, I mean, that's the root of the problem. Everybody in my family is on an iPhone now and I'm the only person who isn't. So I'm like the odd man now. Right. And they want you to feel that way. That's a product decision. And it's happening.

The green bubbles, that's another way to do it. I went to a bachelor at party this weekend. 15 girls, every single girl in the house had an iPhone. And like, it was actually great. It was like, this is what would happen. If this is Apple's perfect world, everyone's on an iMessage chain together. It's God, that's so monopoly.

Yeah. Everyone's on an iMessage chain together. Everyone's doing photo sharing. We even air dropped. I mean, like, it was like an app for Apple. It works really well. Listen, when that stuff works well, it works really well. And I mean, like, it was like an app for Apple. It works really well. Listen, when that stuff works well, it works really well. And Apple does have like, in terms of connectivity

across their devices and their software, like the air drop I've used, I mean, I don't use it a lot, but it can work very well. Like, air play from a device to an Apple TV, like, wonderful, works really well. Like, interoperability between the devices often is like, kind of something that Abel can pull off. But I think the issue is,

something that's fundamentalist messaging. It's become such a way that we communicate. It's become this huge battleground. And what really sucks is that nobody has figured out or nobody has worked on, or maybe nobody can, find a way to tie these things together. For a user, let's just be clear. For an end user, you're asking them to make a really tough decision, which is, use one of these exclusively

don't, and know that for the future, you'll never be able to walk away from it, essentially. You won't be able to migrate to something better or something different or something more full feature. I mean, you're saying you're like, you'll miss out on things. You'll miss out on your business. You'll miss out on things. You'll miss out on your- You'll miss out, absolutely. I mean, also not even just miss out on like features or conversations, you'll miss out on like important messages. Like, my family has a whole I message chain in that.

I mean, that is the root of why I would not leave the iPhone. Right. Well, here's the thing. So my family, so when Zelda was born right around the time that- That's your baby, not your dog, right? Zelda was born, right around the time that she was- That's your baby, not your dog, right? Zelda's my, let me just, maybe Magnus wants to be, make this clear,

Zelda is my child. We got my family into a group, me, like room, because it's really easy to have a group in there. It's really easy to send messages, it's discrete. So it's not like, what I really liked about it was, it's not like some hairy, hard to manage. Like who's in this? Who's not in this thing? It's like you put people in there.

You basically say, I'm making a room. I'm putting people in the room. They're in this room forever unless they leave or unless I kick them out. And now we're just sharing. And it's been really awesome. It's a really great way to like, when she does something really cute and you want like, all of her grandparents to see it. And it doesn't matter if they're on an Android phone or on their desktop or laptop or an iPhone

So to me, that's the way it should be How it shouldn't be is that if you decide to change phones or you decide you want to use a different Messaging app for some other type of messaging that you're screwed You know, I mean David's piece was really good Where was like we need to all gather and pick one messaging platform, which is not gonna happen. I think it's the opposite,

which is we need to pick some protocols that are basically shared protocols for messaging. I mean, Paul actually had, and I hate to bring this back to WebOS, but WebOS had this idea that you would put all of these things into a single feed. Right. They would essentially be in a feed, and you'd see like a G-Chat, and you'd see text message,

you'd see all these other things. But then you wouldn't have to say, what it needs to be is like a single unified person, right? Like that contact person, because in that situation you'd have, you're hang out with Laura, and then you're eye message with Laura. Right.

There needs to be a unified, I'm a person and this is where I want to contact you. Like a telephone number. I feel like maybe Neely wrote something about this a few years ago or maybe somebody else at the verge. I feel like wrote a piece about this. But what is the modern equivalent of the telephone number? Is it your email address, is your Twitter, your handles, your Facebook? That's why it's texting sucks, but maybe texting is still the best.

I don't know. Well, texting is limited though I mean now that we have all these like now that we have all these like really deep Methods communication like like for instance today when Lauren. I were using hangouts like I was like sending her stickers And you can draw in some hangouts. Yes, stickers are fun. Yeah They're like stickers that said rat. Hangouts is like why aren't we all on hangouts? Like I have the same exact I think hangout I think hang out is the answer. Honestly, I've decided.

Every time Michelle, she was texting me like, Michelle doesn't have I message on her work computer or whatever, so we hang out during the day and then we hang out during the day. And then she's like, okay, I'm switching to I message now. That happens like every time. But I message could just be the one thing. But she doesn't have it on her computer. It does, what do you mean? okay, I'm switching to iMessage now. That happens like every time. But iMessage could just be the one thing.

But she doesn't have it on her computer. It does, what do you mean? No, I'm saying, what did they say? I message, I'm in Hangouts. I meant Hangouts. Hangouts could be the thing. I mean, just basically because like if you are using Google services, which I am, here's the nice thing.

Google Photos now integrated in Hangouts. So when you take pictures on your phone and you're at your computer and you go to like send somebody a photo, like the stuff you just took on your phone is sitting there. Not even a folder. It's like sitting in a pop-up waiting to like be put into a message. So we need to convince even like old people that hang out to sit. I mean the thing is it's like if it's easy people are going to do it like first right like the easiest thing in the world is everybody's on our message and like but that's how Apple gets you. It's definitely good. It's like free.

That's not Blackberry got us. No, this is just like B&M, except I mean. B&M is actually better than iMessage. But I knew a lot of people when Blackberry was really dying. Oh, my pen. Yeah, your pen, I'm just going to get a message. Yeah, I'm ready to go. I'm actually playing with a Blackberry classic the other day.

And you loved it. Not a good, no, it's not a good phone. It's not a good device. I wish that it was good, but it's not. At any rate. Well, maybe if they go to Android, all of our problems will be solved. They won't be.

They won't be solved because we'll still have this issue. But yeah, I mean, We'll be back on BBM. We're gonna be a problem. I remember people who wouldn't leave Blackberry because of BBM. Me. Yeah, right.

You remember you? I remember me. I don't. I don't remember being one of those people. I was one of those people. Yeah, you were. I was there. I was't remember being one of those people. I was one of those people. Yeah, you were. How long did you stay in? I was in the BBM room till nobody else was there.

Really? I closed the door on the way out. Really? You're the person who had to turn off the lights. Yes, me and Jacob Shulman. Wow. Wow. That's crazy.

I forgot he was into really into blackberries. Yeah, it was my last friend. I remember you as your last BBM friend. No, a friend ever. Oh, wow, that's very sad. No, but this is like, it's crazy and annoying. And like basically here we've talked like for 15 minutes straight about it.

I bet everyone has this problem. Everybody's bitch, well, unless you have an iPhone, which is a lot of people. But unless you have an iPhone and you have a Mac that has a iMessage built in and everything's perfect. Yeah, well, I mean, that's you have a Mac, you have an iPhone and you have like Mac that has a iMessage built in and everything's perfect. Yeah, well, I mean, you have a Mac, you have an iPhone and you have like an iPad and... I do, but not all my friends do.

Like, Gruber actually tweeted after I tweeted David's thing and I said, you know, this is something like, I wish I wrote this and this is so true or something like that and he said, well, just iMessage is the answer and it's like, well, I have friends with Android phones. Yeah, no, the answer is we all use that product. Yeah. The answer is like a totalitarian situation where you just give in.

I have friends that use Windows even. Yeah, right. What are they? Magnus. Magnus is not you. Magnus is not you. My good friend, Magnus. Don't worry, that's what my mom calls it.

Really? Yeah. You guys have a lot covered you and my mom. Magnus, good old Magn man. That's okay. Last week, Paul Ford was here and he called him Marcus. Oh, two weeks ago, sorry. What do the Swedes do about messaging? Yeah, what are you doing Sweden for messaging, Magnus?

Magnus. Facts machine. I'm sure they're using, you know, they was whatever is the simplest and whatever the government hands them. Whatever the government gives the government issued phone. I mean, maybe Facebook is the answer, whatever the government hands them. Right. Whatever the government gives, the government issued phone. I mean, maybe Facebook is the answer, but I really hate Facebook. No, Facebook isn't the answer because Facebook, like, who knows? Facebook.

But everyone's there. Is everyone there? But also, it's not the answer. I guess are you there? It's, well, you're just calling mangas here. Are you on Facebook? You're on Facebook. Yeah, he loves the guy.

He loves you eating Facebook, puts his pictures of his beautiful daughter on there. It's beautiful wife. Yeah, because everyone's on Facebook with sheet in Facebook puts his pictures of his beautiful daughter on there. It's beautiful wife Yeah, because everyone's on Facebook with Facebook with the freaking thing that shows you that you that they've read the message Can you turn that off? No, you can't turn that off. Oh, then no thing Yeah, it's terrible. It's terrible I they won't they will not there's like have statements that are like people love this. Yeah, I'm sure people do love it But like you don't want to I don't know People love this. Yeah, I'm sure people do love it,

but like you don't want to, I don't know who that. Who loves that? Regular people. Why would regular people want that? They want to know when their message is being read. Think about the thing when you're flirting with somebody. Yeah, but you're going out.

Somebody texts you. Yeah. You looked up with her like two weeks ago. Sounds very like much like my life. And you don't want them to know. You're going out or seeing the message. Okay, hold on, I'm confused now. I hooked up with somebody two weeks ago.

Yeah, you're not into them. I'm not into them, but we hooked up. Right. Because you're going out again and you want to find someone out. I'm going out, I'm going out with someone. I'm going out in the new night, new time, new town. I'm going out. I don't want her to know.

I don't want her to be creeping. Right. And then she sees you saw the message and you ignore her all night. And don't want her to be creepin'. Right, and then she sees you saw the message and you ignore her all night. I'm thinking about the kids here. Is there a way to turn that on? They don't like that. There's a way to do it though.

Kids have a way. Yeah, no way to, I, you don't open it. The youth of the world. I have one right now. Look at this. What do you do? Can you see some of the message? This will pop up while I'm on airplane mode.

I have a message in there. I know who it's from but I don't really know what it says. I'd like to see this message. Who's it from? It's from from from someone. Okay, someone I know. It's from from like something I think they're asking some. I'm going to the same thing about this video. No, they're asking if I'm going to the Samsung event on Thursday, which here you go. Not going to be like, oh, this will be in this is all in the future. I know she's in ice go, but I didn't want to engage in that right then. And if you saw that it was red, if he saw it was red, then he'd be like,

oh, she read it. So now I'm gonna send another message because she's obviously engaged in this. Yeah, and now he knows I read it. And I'm like ignoring her. That's obviously saying, nobody puts red receipts on. I mean, that's crazy.

It's you can't. Right. Well, if this is how Facebook, this is the problem with, you know, this is the problem with the world where we're all just in Facebook, okay, is that you have to play by Facebook's rules. But this is the same, this goes back to the same thing about the whole messaging conversation to begin with.

Like, I want to be able to make a choice. Like, okay, listen, Safari is not the browser that I choose to use, all right. It's a very good browser. I've just chosen to use Chrome because I think it has other features that I like. Right. I choose to use Gmail instead of the mail.app because I think like Gmail in a browser or in MailPlan is more functional and faster for me than using mail.app. It's okay.

Like on my phone, I've used this app called Boxer instead of my main mail app. Like you should be able to make decisions. Is that good at app? Boxer's Boxer is an iPhone, right? Yeah, on the iPhone. Boxer has some syncing issues. It's a really good smart app that has a really great ideas but it has has syncing issues that make it annoying to use and unfortunately I stopped using it But like what am I gonna do when I get Google apps on my iPhone?

What when I get Google for work on my iPhone when I put it in mail Well, you see that's the thing on my iPhone I had it in mail and in their app because their app is crippled by what Apple allows developers to do. No, I use the inbox app and it's really, I mean, I like it, but it's not as like, fast as. Your messages aren't preloading the background. Like app preloads, it's messages in the background

because it gives itself more permissions to do those things. Which is like a really shitty, just to be clear, like a really shitty thing to do to its users, okay? Its users should be able to say, and this is one of the reasons I actually went back to Android. Like I love Apple and I love the products they make, and I think they're capable of making amazing things.

And I do think they lead the industry very often when it comes to like innovation. But I think that there's also, there's a score of amazing developers who are completely coming out of left field with things that they would never think of in a million years and like, scroll to refresh. Yeah, like the Apple didn't invent that somebody else did a little developer invented it You know, I think it was a was a Lauren

Lauren Bercher Bercher. What is his name the guy who did the original Twitter app that eventually became oh yeah Lauren Bercher I think it's his name. I don't know the name whatever. I might and it any way Yeah, Magnus led it this out to make it seem like I know what I'm talking about. He'll put a digital voice in of the actual name. Just cover it with some. Yeah, just a little bit of little kissing noise in there

and people will notice. But yeah, so like there are all sorts of innovations happening and all sorts of great things that you like doing that it's not gonna be like a first party app, it's the best. Like Google Maps is better. It's empirically better in my opinion. I mean, there is more data in it. It is a better Maps application than Apple Maps.

It certainly has better traffic information. It has better traffic information, it has better point of interest location information. That's true. I mean, just live in New York and try to find something on Apple Maps and just get back to one of them. I'm gonna be trying this week in my car. Yeah, you have a phone with that.

And you know, like I should be able to make a choice about using that. But this is the thing is like all of this lock in is making it really hard on users. And you basically have to submit to the bullshit. I mean, one thing you have to give, you have to say to about Google and Android, is they have given developers license to tap into like fundamental core parts of that operating system. If you want to make your core mail application some other outlook, you can do that. That's what you'll use for mail. If you want to make your maps application, some like other third party, open source, whatever,

you can do that. It gives you the opportunity to... You're really just talking about how many of these apps talk to each other. Well, it's about talking to each other, but also, but like default applications, right? And I think that this goes back to this whole thing, like if Apple were open to giving people choice. Like you can't make the default browser

on the iPhone Chrome. You can't, it has to be Safari. And it makes your life actually really hard if you want to use Chrome. I like using Chrome because it has really great continuity between my phone and a tablet and this and that. You can pick up your tabs really easily.

Also, there are... It means that far I can do that, but I use Chrome on my laptop and I would... Yeah. There you go. Right? Yeah. They would never have done what they did with iMessage. If they were open to giving users the option to choose the messaging service they want to

use. Because basically, something like WhatsApp has a lot more users than had a lot more users at some point than anything that Apple was doing in terms of messaging. Like whatever the early version, maybe before I message really existed, which is now just called messages. You know, maybe that would have been the thing that everybody used. Of course, it's owned by Facebook, so you're kind of dead. I mean, the end result is that Apple wants you to buy their hardware. And so they don't want you to never leave their platform.

I don't think it's they want you to, yes, they want you to buy their hardware. But I think they think the only way to get to continue to do that is if you never leave their, any of their platforms. They keep growing the, which is why they don't care to make their platforms on any other, they don't want to make their platforms work on any other hardware. Is what I'm saying? Well, that's true and they don't ever have to. They are making an Apple Music app for Android.

And I think it's like, I understand why. Right. I mean, there are a lot of Spotify users and a lot of audio users and a lot of title, well, there's not a lot of title users, but people who use other services. And I wish they would do it for everything. But they know if they did it for I message, if they made do it for everything, but they know. If they did it for iMessage, if they made iMessage for Android, we wouldn't be able to have this conversation. I'm totally fine if Apple's willing to make an app

for the other 50% or more than 50% of people who use that platform. I think they're going to do that. Maybe they'll do it if like there's interstitial ads for the iPhone every so often. It's like this message would be even better for you or you read it on the iPhone. Right. Click here to buy one. Force touch here.

Yeah. I don't get Force touch. Can we talk about that? Force touch is like a long press. A long press, yes. It's a hard press. Was it just been a long press and a hard press? It's, I don't know.

Is this a joke? It could be. No, but I'm saying like, That's a different, you know, it's like a punchline. Like, I understand the idea that something's pressure sensitive. It's pressure sensitive. I understand that something's pressure sensitive.

And that's really great for like a stylus when you want really, you want like very fine gradients between like a fine point and a thicker heavier stroke. Right. But explain to me how it's different. And maybe I'm just being stupid about this. I've used the Apple Watch. Hard press is feeling long presses.

And maybe I just can get used to it. You mean like a long press, without pressing too hard. What if you have a long press, that's a hard press? I mean, that would be another variable. But I'm saying like a hard press is a hard press more functional.

A long press. It's really hard on saying more functional than holding down for like an extra, you know, couple of milliseconds to bring up like whatever contextual thing it's gonna do. Like as a press is like a tap and then you leave it, you go, well. That's really like,

cause on the iPhone, when you long press, I wonder what's gonna happen on the new iPhone, when you long press on, oh I guess it's just about the pressure, right? If you like long press on an app and you want to move them around, right? When they all jiggle and whatever. I think the new thing will be you hard press and it does that. Do you see what I'm saying?

So, it doesn't make any sense. No, but I think that's, did you read Mark German's piece? Yeah, I did. He wrote about like what forced touch is going to do. It's like it'll bring up, and if you press hard on like a music list item and it'll bring up a contextual menu and it's like, okay, but that same thing will can if you press hard on like a music list item and bring up a contextual menu And it's like okay, but that same thing will happen if you long press on certain things It's like the same idea

It's just like instead of pressing for a little bit longer you're pressing a little bit harder And I just don't like I'm just not seeing the innovate the innovative aspect of I feel like it's something they were like look We can do this. Let's try and do something with it pressure sensitivity's been around for a long time I just don't understand like I just not feeling like it's particularly innovative or interesting feature. I'm not saying anything like that. I wonder what it will actually do. I would like it, there's some things I do like about it on the watch, if I can clear notifications.

I'm more thinking about what are the things that annoy me on the iPhone every day. We couldn't that also be a long press. I guess what I'm saying is, did they need forced touch to introduce that interaction? Also forced touch. Force touches are really good. Is a lung press. I guess what I'm saying is like, did they need forced touch to introduce that interaction? Also, forced touch. Force touches are really good. It's a terrible name.

It just sounds very inappropriate. It's rapy, frankly. It's a kind of rape. I don't want you to touch me. You're forcing. That's what I have to say. I'm being forced to touch you or you're forcing to touch on me and it's not cool.

Nobody wants to back off. It's not appropriate. Force touches the worst. Force touches that. It's really very bad. Yeah. No, you really don't like it. Why don't you write something about it? I want you to write a skating editorial for the Wall Street Journal. I write a tweet about it. Did you write a tweet about it?

I think I wrote a tweet about it. And you remember with the tweets? No. Let's move on from this topic for a second. What was on next on the let's talk about browser. Tell me about browser. Tell me about browser. Tell me first what type of dog is browser? Describe browser's coloring. And then I want to hear about how you arrived at the ultimate, at the decision to purchase a dog. There's a lot of questions. Okay, so the first one,

browser is a Kavapu. He's a Cavaliere Spaniel and a Poodle. Wow, a Cavaliere Spaniel. Kavapu, but also you can find it under hashtag Kavoodle, which I don't like that name. It's not good, it reminds me of Kavoodle. Yeah. Can you hold on to it? There used to be like a makeup thing called Kavaliere Spaniel. I'm not doing that.

Cavaliere Spaniel and a Poodle. Yes. Now is it Kavaliere Spaniel, anything like a King Charles? Yes. Okay, so they have like very Spaniel anything like a King Charles? Yes. Okay. So they have like very like smooth, soft, silky hair. Let me look that up. Touchable.

King Charles Spaniel. Yeah. They have to be similar. Yeah. I think it's the same thing. Oh, really? Yeah. They look exactly the same.

Let me say. Sorry. This is what I have in picture to my mind and I just always say Cavalier, but yes, they're the same. Yeah. King Charles. Oh, yeah. Look. Yeah. I have in picture to my mind and I just always say cavalier, but yes, they're the same. Yeah, King Charles. Oh, yeah, look, yeah, cavalier King Charles. Yeah. So the King Charles, they're sort of like, um, they're fancy. They're rich people dogs. They're like, they're like, I think they're, I always say they're like the dogs of royalty as evidence by their name. But they are like real fancy dogs. Yes, it's a fan. Poodles also a very fancy dog.

I grew up with a poodle, I should say. Did you? Yeah, we had a poodle, his name was Fletch. And he was a very feisty dog. Poodles are very ill tempered. Right. He bit every member of the family. He used to sleep in bed with me and he would guard my bed if anybody came towards the bed.

He would start growling and snapping at them. Where would he sleep in the bed? Well he slept normally, like a normal dog either at the foot of the bed or sometimes he maybe getting, you know, he kind of curl up next to you, but often he was like down at the foot. Browser's been doing this thing where he sleeps above my head in the bed. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Penny likes to do that.

Yeah. But Penny also likes to, she gets in the, in the sheet. She doesn't move that we call humanine, which is when she sleeps in the bed with her head. I've talked about this before. Yeah, yeah. It's your sleep's in the bed under the covers with her head out of the covers, sometimes on the pillow.

Trying to find the bed. But exactly like a human sleeps. And in fact, I Instagrammed a photo of it recently. Laura and Zelda were out of town for a week. And I was just me and Penny. And I woke up and Penny was just like perfectly on Laura's side of the bed on the pillow. Is this what is this? Oh, you, oh, look at this. He also likes to sleep on the pillow. He gets him human in here. Yeah. This is fantastic. Yeah.

It's very cute. Yeah, right? He looks very furry. He's very furry. That's not furry. He isn't shed. That's, that's hair. It's, yeah, he does not, he does not shed. That's not furry. He isn't shit. That's hair. Yeah, he does not. He does not shed. That's a couple of people and these King Charles. He's very soft. They have, yeah, they're very soft down. He's, he looks like a bear. It's like an actual kind of a hair type of thing. He looks like a bear. And you know, some people say it looks like a muppet, which should take a little bit of offense to. Listen, when people start, you know, people like fat shame penny on the internet all the time, because she got a little

bit, you know, a little bit heavier in her later years. She's eight, you know, she's not a young poppy anymore. Yeah, it's not. She's not like dramatically overweight. The vet is not like, there's something wrong with this dog. You know, she's put on a few pounds, you know? But people really are rude to her on the internet and I take it personally. It'd be like if you show them picture of your kid

and they say, hey, what's up with that fatty? My, you know, and my other- So, how long have you ever said about my kid, I will find you and I will kill you. And my dog will bite you. And then I will Instagram that photo of your body. And then I'll fat shame your dead body. We will fat shame you.

Yeah. Once you've been killed. You know, I'm now sensitive. I've learned so many things about being a dog owner that I did not understand. Let's hear about some of those things. I mean, well, first of all, he was sick last week. Oh, no. And like, what kind of sick? He had, don't get grabbed. We don't, you know what, let's just move on from that question. I want to talk about diarrhea. No, all right.

No, okay. You know what? So Bowser, browser, sorry, not Bowser. Although people must call them, they don't know what happened. He was, they, he had some stomach issues. We're going into this. And also, we also very swollen travel through the fear. I see what you're doing. And he was at the vet. It was back and forth from the vet. And it was, you know, they didn't know they might have gotten bitten by something. They think he like I was watching him and he ate the whole bone. Maybe that was probably the problem.

I you were watching it. Oh, this is what you decide. I was watching him and he ate the whole bone. He ate a whole bone. I don't know what that means. Like an actual bone. He ate a whole Bully Stick bone thing. Oh, yeah, but that's fine.

And he might not have adjusted it anyway. The Bully sticks are discussed in it. They're not. They're disgusting. But you know, it keeps them really occupied. Yeah, because dogs are annoying. They're annoying. Super, super annoyed.

Yeah. You know, I just totally forgot that those things annoying. Super, super annoyed. Yeah. You know what I just totally forgot that those things existed. Honestly, I completely forgot that we used to give those to Penny. And now she was probably puppy and looked like. Yeah. And now, but now I'm like, wow,

that was gonna be really helpful. Right. Except now she's very extremely territorial with Zelda and she grows at her and now she doesn't do. Penny's like all bark and no bite. She's like just basically a whim. But she's always trying to guard her resources, which she considers to be most of the afternoon. Really? She doesn't do. Penning's like all bark and no bite. She's like just basically a whim. But she's always trying to guard her resources, which she considers to be most of the house. Which is mostly an attention thing.

I think it's more like she's an awful dog and has is very selfish and thinks that she owns everything. But no one can say she's fat. She's not fat. She's pleasantly plump. Okay. No, she's not either, she's a little extra. But yeah, I mean, you know, you just learn, like,

they're just like, he was sick and I felt so bad. And these are things you've learned as a dog owner. Yeah, these are things I've learned. No, go ahead. So what did you feel? What was it, what did you learn? I just felt a lot of sadness and pain for this dog. It's a dog.

That's called sympathy, I think. Yes, sympathy. Yeah. That's the work. Not great at pronouncing it, but you're great at feeling it. What else would you learn as a dog. That's called sympathy, I think. Yes, sympathy. Yeah. It's a work. You're not great at pronouncing it, but you're great at feeling it. What else would you have as a dog owner? That it's a lot of work.

Yeah. That your parents weren't kidding when they said it was a lot of work. Yeah, well, you have like a real child now. It's a real child. It seems like a lot of work too. It is a lot of work. It's far more work than a dog.

But also more rewarding. I don't know if I wanted that. More rewarding because the child learns things and starts to really become a person and develop. I actually for the first year or so I really kind of was stuck in the way of thinking about not a whole year, maybe the first six, seven months, you're kind of stuck in, oh yeah, they're just like always going to be kind of helpless. But then it does, then it isn't suddenly. And then you're like, wow, this is very cool. This kid now wants things and can say things and walks around

So there's like much more of an obvious progression. There's really no comparison and you can't leave the child alone You can't you can leave the dog alone Right, you can leave the dog for six eight ten hours in a crate You can't put the the kid in a crate though. They do have a sort of a crate It's called a crib. A crib, yeah. Which is actually utilized in very similar ways. Like for instance, we're doing like some,

some act of parenting now. And Zelda will do this thing where she gets on a chair and she stands up on the chair, which is obviously very dangerous for her, cause she's tiny. Right. And so if she doesn't, you know, we're like, no, sit down and if she doesn't listen,

you have to, you can have her time out. Yeah. And you put her in her crib. Magnus, you know about this, right? You're familiar with the timeout. No, they don't do timeouts in this field. Why not? Is that bad?

Is it bad to do timeouts? Does it turn them into or into serial killers? Okay, he says, yes, so that's bad. Bad news. I don't want to talk more about that after this. People don't want to hear us talk about parenting, but that's very interesting. And I would like to hear you talk about parenting.

No, but a magnus would need to be in here because he has a three year old B. She just turned three. And she's like a full grown, fully functional. She's talking. She's talking, she's playing, she can run around. She's like completely out of control. And the way kids are.

So it's totally different. You know, we're a little bit behind that curve at this point. Anyway, he's a great dog. He's so friendly. He loves everyone on bit behind that curve at this point. Anyway, he's a great dog. He's so friendly. He loves everyone on the street. He jumps up on everyone.

He's just, he's very, he's a great dog. Did you make a decision? You wanted a boy dog versus a girl dog or how did that happen? Everyone told us to get a girl dog. Really? Because, I don't know why. I mean, they just said the temperament is better. I don't know about that. You know. Penny said the temperament is better. I don't know about that.

You know, if Penny's any, they don't, she's like an alpha. Yeah, they don't like, they don't mark their territory and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, okay. Doesn't sound like Penny. I mean, not every, I think Penny is,

I think Penny is, I think she's, I think she's like, in between, it's a, for genders a little more fluid. Yeah, you know, it's, it's good time. Browser, we're, we're pretty sure he, you know, he likes to, he hums girls and boys. Oh, it's cool.

Yeah, like last night he got together with his- Pants, he really pansexual. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. He's definitely a little bit of a- Of course he's a dog. He likes to hump a lot. Yeah, well, I mean, who doesn't?

Yeah, he does, like, I mean, you may not love kissing sounds. But he does. I mean, he's a good, I mean, like, he doesn't go to the bathroom inside anymore. He's completely house broken. He's great. You know, we've had him now for, you broke, you house broke him. We house broke, and it's working. It's working.

Yeah. That's great. We were very lazy about that. Very lazy. Yeah. I mean, she's, I don't, I don't know. She's a, I good is not the word I would use to describe her, but she, I think she means well.

At the end of the day, I think, I think, she's still let me pet her. But at the end of the day, I think she was, she's strong. I would pet her and she would, no, she likes, she loves people. No, she's very, very loving and very, she loves to be around people and loves to be up in their shit. And frankly, like, she's too, she'll like jump. If you're on the sofa, she'll like jump up on your chest and like demand to be like scratched and wants to lick her face. That's how he is. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, I'll like jump. If you're on the sofa, she'll like jump up on your chest and like demand to be like scratched

and then wants to lick it. That's how he is. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, I'll go and come here. He's very friendly. I mean, on the street, he wants to say hi to everyone, including homeless people, which is a really, a little bit of a problem.

Why? Because he's very stubborn. He's very stubborn. Yeah. No, he's just, he'll sit there and like, I want to go to that person. Yeah. We're still trying to teach him

That's he full grown now see it is full size. We're not sure yet. I don't I don't know how much does he weigh? He's like 13 14 pounds. Do you think you'll get another dog? No, not right now. No other dogs No, I think to get a child before you're gonna get a child. We're gonna get a child works That's not in the works very personal. Are you talking about this on a podcast? Well Michelle care? No, but I mean We'll eventually have children you're thinking shit kill children in the future children in the worst way now. This is very personal. Are you talking about this on a podcast? Well, Michelle Care? No, but I mean, we'll eventually have children. You're thinking, should kill children in the future. Children in the future. Hmm. Well, that's exciting.

I can give you lots of parenting tips, although Laura can give you many more because she's a much better parent. I'm like, I'm like the king of queens. She does seem like a great mother. I'm like a sitcom character. It's funny because I'm an intelligent sensitive guy and I always had this vision of myself as a father. You don't think I'm like a sitcom character. I know it's funny because I'm an intelligent sensitive guy and I always had this vision of myself as a father. You don't think I have sensitive?

Maybe. That depends me that you said that and it hurts my feelings. But I thought, I'm gonna be a cool good dad. I'm gonna really have my shit together. I'm gonna know things. I'm gonna learn how to take care of Zelda or whoever it was before I knew I was having Zelda. But it turns out I'm just a sitcom dad.

I'm a bozo who doesn't know anything. I'm just a stereotypical. It doesn't surprise me. Laura seems like a great mom. And she just seems like she really, she did a research. She's in there. She gets it.

And that is probably not going to be me, but that will be Michelle. Yeah, I mean, she's like, she's in there. She gets it. And that is probably not gonna be me, but that will be Michelle. Yeah, I mean, you need somebody who's really got their shit together and can research and just understand. Yeah, she seems to know like everything. She's very good at parenting, very good. And it really, by contrast, I look really bad. And I think that's part of the problem.

But that's a good thing. Yeah, I guess so. Something you gotta balance each other out. I guess so. It turned out this was a bit of therapy. I think for both of us. Yeah. We got a lot out there. Anyhow, we should wrap up. I can I was still awake. No, yeah, Magnus is in there. Honestly, I could talk to you for hours. I love talking to you. I know. I'm talking to you too. It's been too long. It has been too long since we've had a conversation. I agree. So I want you to we you have to come back and we should we might we could do without the the mics We should do it. Yeah, I don't know that was everything I do is a performance

Living life out loud, but we you should come back and we should actually do like around like when there's a thing going on Like you know, we would always do like yeah, like a special event Verge cast or whatever we should you find like a moment. There's gonna be like an iPhone soon. Yeah, and it's so boring though. Are you bored of new iPhones and new laptops? I'm not, I didn't kill you, you have to review these things. You know, it's funny, and I was thinking about this today because I am getting in a little bit of a rut in the sense that I've been working nonstop

and have had a long series of columns. And one of the things that was a huge challenge for me when I took the job was how do I make this like a really exciting topic area again? And I've been doing it now for about almost two years. And we've had just a great, I've had a great string of columns and videos that I think are really like lively with great information and a lot of fun. And now I'm kind of hitting this point where I'm like, okay, but now I got to do that again.

You got to turn it up a little bit. You know, yeah, and there's certain topics I am really excited to bring a fresh eye to. I think VR is one of them. I'm not sure anyone cares beyond the tech industry. Yeah, it's tough. It's like the Google Glass Prom. It's like people don't want to put that on, I think.

But like, you know, and for me, it was a huge... Push that through that time cover. Yeah. Oh my God. I know. It's so bad. But like, it's a big challenge, obviously professionally to keep Being at the top of your game and doing better and better stuff Editorially and as a as a journalist and you know, it's like how Kanye feels, you know, it is probably

You know, you know, a lot of ways you and Kanye have a lot in common, you know, but mostly all I mean Obviously, it's a personal thing, but also it has to do with the common. But mostly, obviously it's a personal thing, but also it has to do with the industry. Well, the industry is very dry and boring right now. There's no question about it. I mean, let's be honest, I think we're in a serious valley in terms of innovation, interesting products. And I'm not one of these like nasaers like doom and gloom. It's dead. It's over. But things go in cycles. And the reality is, we have this explosion, this amazing, intense, unbelievable, last decade. I mean, just, you know, I was talking to somebody

about this today, you know, I was talking about, well, we were actually talking about 9.11, which is a very dark topic, but I was saying, like, that was like six years before, five years before, I know, six years before the first iPhone was released to the public. Like, if you can imagine like a timeline, when you think about it, that's like crazy.

What were we doing? I mean, you think about it, that's like crazy. What were we doing? I mean, when you think about, and we were talking about post 9.11, how people didn't really have like the means that we have now to communicate. But like, just think, we just got iPhones in 2007, okay? We just got like apps, we just are starting to learn what apps can do.

And you know, I think we sort of have had this like, we're a little bit, we have a little bit of like, whiplash, I think, because we're like, okay, what's the next thing? What's the next thing that's going to like totally alter my world, but the reality is now like there's going to be, it's going to be more incremental. Right. And we're going to have-

And we're going to have- And we're going to have- And we're going to have- And we're going to have- And we're going to have- And we're going to have- And we're going to have- And we're going to have-

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But yeah, those big moments feel really far few and far between in the Apple Watch. Didn't it felt like one sort of? But it didn't. It wasn't, it isn't one. Because what you realize is like, oh, this is an accessory to the phone. It's not like this big life changing. And was like I know to see a ton of them

I think it's probably doing really well. I'm sure it's I'm sure it's selling fine I just think as a device it's not life changer, you know Would you buy like if you bought an Apple watch today in a year or two will you buy a second one? Oh, like what is it gonna? Do right because that's a real question. I think for people yeah I mean 700 on an Apple watch like this week Let's say in a year that the Apple watch too like think about I mean because it is has it changed your life so much that you're like I got to get another one but anyhow, but besides that I do think that we're just in this place where we're still learning a lot about How these things actually change our lives like Uber is a big way that the that the iPhone and that you know

Devices with apps have changed the way we live and there's gonna be a hundred other things like that. I think those the big moments are gonna be much, much bigger now. I think actually, they're not gonna be about Apple has a new phone, it's gonna be like, the car companies have finally created the 500 mile or the 1000 mile electric car battery. And that's the next boom, is like, we totally change the way cars drive.

Or we totally change how our energy grid works. Or we totally change the railway system in America. Or I mean, I think that the things now they're gonna happen as a spark, infrastructure is gonna change because of the things that we have in our hands and in our pockets. I just don't know that it's gonna be. I'm not saying I'm not knocking like, no.

Because what you do is still, it means very valuable to actually to say amongst all of these things I could get that are gonna let me access that innovation. Which one should I have? It's actually really valuable to understand that. Well, what you're saying is actually the future, both for coverage and for these companies is around that,

it goes way further than the technology that I have. Yes, for sure. I think it has to, all you have that we have. I mean, yes, for sure. I think it has to all, you have to see it all in like the bigger picture, which is our world now will change because of these things and like, how will it change and when will it change and why is it changing? Like those are the really big questions that I think they were, I mean, look at relationships. I mean, look at, you know, look at how Tinder has changed dating. It really has.

I mean, it's a totally different experience than anything that we've done before, you know, look at how Tinder has changed dating. It really has. I mean, it's a totally different experience than anything that we've done before, you know. The closest thing you could imagine that- I've never used Tinder. Right, but a lot of people do. And I'm saying that like young people who date now don't like go to a crowded bar and are like, who, what stranger here should I hang out with?

Right, right. They're like, let me look at all these possible thousands of people I might want to like go on a date with and then like that's how I'm gonna be judging judging them by how they look by how they look and if they listed something cool or not. This is a terrible thing. Welcome to the future. Yeah.

Okay. Well on that really upbeat note, I think we should wrap. Jenny, how do I say it was we were wrapping up and you have to come back because there's so much more like here. There's so much more we have to talk about. So I'm just doing more of this in your New York. I am. No, I'm just that's how I want to end this podcast. I really

Amangus is sleeping. Well, that's our podcast. I'm joining. Thank you for being here. It was great to be here. I really enjoyed it And as always I wish you and your family the very best and I wonder how far into the valley They get How dark the valley will become. you