Tomorrow - Episode 22: Dan Frommer and the Batman Effect

Episode Date: September 4, 2015

With Labor Day around the corner, tomorrow’s Tomorrow is published today (confusing, no?). Dan Frommer is the tech editor at Quartz, helped launch Business Insider, and has used Apple products exclusively for 25 years. He sits down with Josh in the Tomorrow studio to discuss and predict this week’s upcoming Apple event in San Francisco — but the conversation also veers towards Samsung’s unfortunately named Gear S2 Classic, the jungle of digital payment options, Batman, AOL, brand logos, and a great deal more. The perfect way to get ready for a BBQ! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow I'm your host, Josh with Topolski. Today on the podcast, we're going to discuss From Domes page from Hell, adjustmentbureaumovie.com and bone my whole. But first, a word from our sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the easiest way to create a beautiful website, blog, or online store for you and your ideas. Squarespace features an elegant interface, beautiful templates, and incredible 24-7 customer support. Try Squarespace at Squarespace.com and enter offer code Joshua at checkout to get 10% off. Squarespace, build a beautiful. ["Square Space"]

My guest today is a lovely and intelligent man who sometimes goes by the name Fromm Dome, which we're gonna talk about. Dan Frommer is here with me. Dan, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Frommer, right? Frommer, yeah.

Not Frommer. Nope. Okay, good. So, Dan, you may not know he's a writer, he's a thinker, he's a creator, he is a quartz currently, where he is, what is your official title of quartz? Tech editor. Tech editor and previously business insider. Yeah. You're kind of one of like the founding, I'm going through all the business insider guys. I had Joe Wyzenth all of that. Joe was great. No, but how early were you there? I was a day zero Silicon alley

Yeah, yeah, I was employing number two were you really? Yeah, I mean if you don't count the founders So it's just I guess I don't I guess I don't employ zero and then Peter Kafka who you'll have to have on at some point I got to get Kafka on and then I was number two anyhow I want to talk to you because next week. Oh, when people hear this it'll be Monday actually Monday's Labor Day. Maybe we should release this Tuesday. I think you should release it Sunday because people are gonna be bored. Oh, that's interesting.

Maybe we'll do it Sunday. That's a good idea. When you hear this, we're gonna be talking about some stuff that's happening this week, the week you're listening, the listener is now listening in. But it is Friday, just before Labor Day for us, in our timeline. September 4th. September 4th.

September 4th. So there are a bunch of things happening in the world of technology. There have been a bunch of big things. I feel like the last couple of weeks. There's an Apple event coming up. There's talk of a Google event happening. There have been a bunch of new logos and new companies. Anyway, I wanted to talk to you because I wanted to speak to an intelligent person

about the state. I mean, not that I talked a lot of on intelligence. and anyhow, I wanted to talk to you because I wanted to speak to an intelligent person about the state. I mean, not that, you know, not that, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Not that I touched a lot of unintelligent people

on the podcast. But I want to talk to you about the state of technology and sort of the industry. You write things that are, I think, very thoughtful, some data-driven stuff that's really interesting and insightful, and I thought, this would be a good chance to talk about what's happening in the world of technology

and anything else you want to talk about. Yeah, let's do it. Well, before we get to that, I want to talk about the nickname Frohmdome. Yeah. Well, that's your Twitter handle is Frohmdome. It's my everything handle. It's your everything handle. So this is your go-to.

You sign up for a new service. You sign up for Vonage or I don't know why Vonage. I'm trying to think of things you sign up for. Your Instagram, are you from Don't Want Instagram? Oh yeah, everything. I'm trying to think of those Snapchat. Snapchat? I actually don't know what my Snapchat is, probably.

I'm not sure if I ever actually added a nickname. You don't use Snapchat? I'm probably not often. You're really showing how. Now is the publisher. I'm a Gen X or you a millennial. Probably half way. Based on your lack of Snapchat knowledge, I'd say you're Gen X or you a millennial. Probably like halfway. Based on your lack of Snapchat knowledge,

I'd say you're Gen X. Yeah, well, I think maybe it's because I got married before Snapchat launched. But you think there's a relationship there between not being married and using Snapchat? I think they might be, I don't know. I don't know, that's interesting. Maybe you can pull some data.

What is your data project in Quartz called? Oh, Atlas. Atlas is our chart's project. You chart's project, maybe you can create a chart about What is your data project in Quartz called? Oh, Atlas. Atlas is our chart project. Your chart's project, maybe you can create a chart about that at using Atlas. Could be. We'll talk about that too. All right, so, from Dom.

Yes, 20 years of from Dom actually. Wow. Yeah, I, it could be, that'd be a great name for your biography, autobiography. It could be, yeah. I mean, whatever the years, amount of years are. Well, so my friend Neil in seventh grade, Nick named me from Dome.

I don't know why, I forgot why. And I registered that as my eWorld name. Do you remember eWorld? No, what is eWorld? eWorld was Apple's basically white label AOL, dial up online service. What was this like 90? It was 95.

95. Yeah. And was that that's a pre-jobs return? Yeah, Scully? No, not Scully. I don't know. What's the name? Gil Millio maybe.

I don't know, yeah. I had a performer and a 2400 bod modem and a free e-world, you know, 10 free hours or whatever it was. I had an LC. Yeah, man. We had an LC too. Yeah, it's a cool computer.

So anyway, so I became e-world on from I became from Dome on e-world and then Stuck with it and then When I went I went back to a well and then my first website was hosted on a well was called from domes page from hell Wow How old were you? 13 do you know what it looked like do you have any yeah? It was great. It had like a neon yellow and green background And then I made these fire graphics and it was like? Yeah, it was great. It had like a neon yellow and green background,

and then I made these fire graphics, and it was... Like animated? There were price animations, but I was... So I think I only had two megs of space. So you had to be careful with... What did you come from? What did you come from? Well, a lot of it was under construction.

Okay. In fact, when 10 years ago, I made the banner, say, fromdom.com under construction for 10 years. That's good. Yeah. It's nice. Basically, I would redesign the website probably every few weeks. Yeah.

Because I was, you know, in middle school and then high school. Right. But I never actually, I would be iterating. Yeah. Absolutely. I would learn a new HTML thing like I would learn tables and then frames and I would. Classic. Yeah. But I never really was publishing

regularly on there it was more of a kind of web design project that went on for a while. More like a performance art. Yeah, I had some cool features. I actually got in trouble for it once and then and then I think 97 or 98 my my father got me from domedome.com as a birthday present. Wow. Yeah, back cool president. Yeah, it was pretty sweet. That'sdome.com as a birthday present. Wow. Yeah, back in it. What a cool present. Yeah, it was pretty sweet. That's so thoughtful.

I probably asked for it. I feel like I would actually probably bought it with his credit card and declared it my birthday. I was going to say, I feel like that's like a really thoughtful, insightful gift from a parent at that, in that era. What year was this? I think 97. 97.

So who is myself? I mean, that's like a really cool gift if you get it if you're a kid. We were actually debating two domains from dome or the other one I want to was big-ass chainsaw.com Well, you blew it because that would have been that would have been pretty high a successful website But now from the commas just dormant. What's on it? It's like a blog right now Well, so when I used to have a site called spl splat app which was basically my independent tech news and analysis site and uh... had this phasic like last year was like too many too many names and brands online and

it can solidate so i just moved all the splat up stuff over to from the consult with a brand consultant on that did you should have yeah uh... anyway the nice thing about being becoming from them in nineteen ninety five is that i'm the only fromdome there's ever been because no one has ever been able to use fromdome on any. You occupied all of this. Absolutely. You've sucked up all the air from the fromdome. I've never tried to sign up for anything as fromdome and and been told that it was taken already except when I had accidentally forgotten that I signed up for it like several months prior. I can say that Laura, my wife Laura, June, was when I told her you were going to be on the

podcast, she was like, I got into the backstory to Frodo. So that was kind of like, I also wanted to know, but she was the first thing that she thought of. So I'm glad that we could cover it. And now we know. Not a great. Honestly, the origin story itself, not that great. It's like, your friend nicknamed you, you don't know why.

And then you used to use Simpson's reference. I didn't really watch the Simpson's much. And he did. So you don't even know. It might have had something to do with that. I'm not sure. We'll never know. Oh, but the best was, yeah.

Several years ago, I was at Costco. I was by my first SLR camera at Costco, because I was about to leave on vacation the next day. Okay. And there was a Portugal. And there was an old lady at the end of the register wearing a sweater with bejeweled like letters that said from zone.

Really? Yeah. That's so weird. Did you take a picture with the camera? I took a picture with my palm trio. Oh, with your... What picture? What trio do you? Yeah, it was a 700P.

Okay. That was a palm device. I mean, it was like a palm device. I did not... I did not. I was on sprint. Oh, sprint. Yeah.

CDMA. There's came out first, and I believe it blocked fewer features than the Verizon one. Oh, okay. CDMA. There's came out first and I believe it blocked fewer features than the Verizon one or something like that. I was I was I probably talked about this in the podcast before, but I had a trio 650 which too. Oh yeah. Like the greatest 18 to those like the most iconic trio. I think it was the greatest thing that I'd ever had in my entire life. It was like I mean I do feel like a little bit of the thrill of the iPhone was lost on me. I think a lot of people were like oh my god, you can do all of these things. I think for people who own trios,

you're like, yeah, I can already do all of these things, and in fact, I even protest that I was like, I don't need an iPhone, I can do all this stuff on my trio. It was like, I could do less with an iPhone, open and beautiful color. Right, right, so if this doesn't even have, I can go different mail app or something. And it's like, yeah, but actually,

the mail app works really well. But you know, you've sort of, I think I ruined the iPhone a little bit for myself by having already enjoyed the pleasure of a trio. For me, it was draining my battery by using the IM client for like 20 minutes. That was a trio. That was amazing. I remember there was just like a Gmail, like a Gmail job, the apps that they had. Oh, sweet.

Yeah, that's great. Anyhow, so let's job, the apps that they had. Oh, sweet. Yeah, it was great. Anyhow, so let's fast forward. Let's do that. To present day. So Apple has an event next week. This week. Sorry, that's right. The week that you are listening is when the event is happening.

And they're expected to make some large announcements. They have a new venue, which is huge. It's like a 3000 seat venue which seems too big in my opinion, but you know who might have judged. Obviously they're going to announce you. There's no room for us. That's right. Well I can't, I couldn't go even if even if I wanted to go, which I don't. I mean neither. I'm actually ecstatic to not be, I've gone to every Apple event. I've gone to so many Apple events. Yeah. This may be one of two that I've missed in like Seven years or something. I don't know six years. I don't know whatever it's been but

Big venue big venue Well, they're gonna announce new iPhones Yeah, we know for sure they're going to announce that I have to iPhone 6 S and an iPhone 6 S plus which is a real mouthful or something something like this. That's almost a Samsung product name. It really is. Well, I think there's a lot of things that Apple does that are almost Samsung like at this point, and we can talk about that. Yeah.

That's a very interesting reaction to that. Almost kind of a flirty reaction I was saying. So, there's talk that are gonna announce a new Apple TV. It's gonna be a big change. They're gonna allow apps. To me, this is the biggest part new Apple TV. It's gonna be a big change. They're gonna allow apps. To me, this is the biggest part of the event. That's gonna be the big thing. Yeah.

They're gonna kind of get done with the phones quickly, you think, and they're gonna, they're gonna jam with this huge thing. They're gonna, well, there's the force touch thing. Right, so we're, okay, so let's, so what else might they announce, do you know? Supposedly, they're gonna do the big iPad too. Yeah, like, what is it, like a 13 inch iPad?

Something like that. That to me sounds like a nightmare. When I think about it, when I think about things that are nightmares to me, I think a larger iPad stands out. It's like the iPad already seems too big. The regular size iPad already feels too big to me. I mean, I don't really know what to do with it, frankly. Do you have an iPad?

I've been many only since they came out. What do you do with it? frankly. Do you have an iPad? I've been many only since they came out. What do you do with it? I read in bed and at the toilet. On the toilet? On the toilet? That's the six plus six pluses for the toilet. I thought you were going to say. Six pluses for the toilet. You read in bedding on the elliptical.

Yeah. And you read what? Like books. And bed I read web pages, usually, or Twitter. Okay. All the Twitter keeps me up. But I usually read a flyer Talk, which puts me asleep. Really? So that's the website that's about people complaining

about flying. Is that true? That's what you do? Yeah. That's so odd. Or other aviation message boards. Really? Yeah, man.

It's really great. It's an amazing idea. Yeah. I mean, I actually find that I get tired reading anything in bed. As soon as I start reading, it could be the most interesting thing in the world. I'm just like, nope, not going to make it. But that's interesting. That's all you really do with the iPad. And at the gym, I read books. I've been reading or Wall Street research, which is that doesn't put you to sleep? No, actually I really love it.

Okay, yeah. Like, is that makes sense? So anyway, I was just, I think a large iPad to me is I guess there's a reason people would want it. I don't, I'm not sure what it is. I have no doubt that there are things that people can do with it. I'm sure there are photographers or...

I think that some people will figure out stuff to do with it. I don't know, I just got the new MacBook, which to me like that's the big iPad that I needed. Yeah, but the new MacBook kind of sucks It's slow. It is very slow. It's really slow. I mean it doesn't suck in that I actually worked on a review at Bloomberg with another writer there, Steven Polver and we sort of the conclusion we came to was if you accept that this is gonna be slower and Is like last it's like last, it's not really a workhorse, it's more like a base, it's almost a Chromebook, you know, then it's a really cool Mac.

Yeah, it's a kind of iPad with a keyboard that you can hold with two fingers. And you can charge it over USB while you're on a plane, which is pretty cool. Oh, you can power it. Well, it's basically the same battery. Yeah. If you have an annoying USB-C cable though. Yeah, which is, that actually, that has been,

which is a really annoying standard right now. And I don't know, I will say, like my light, I don't know if you find, look, I were really on a tangent here, but all my lightning adapters, like fall out of my phone. I feel like they're kind of, it's kind of a bad design. They kind of slide in there and just slide right out.

Okay, anyhow. So, large iPad, what else might Avalon announce, do you know? That's probably about it. That's probably, I mean, here's the question. Do they, now that this, I don't think they're ready to talk about the car, but I could also see them flirting with people about it. Like, hey, look, we, you know.

Some car play stuff. I don't know. Oh, well, car play, yeah, maybe. What were you, what were you gonna say? Like the actual car. They're not gonna flirt with the car, I don't think. No. I don't know. Oh well car play. Yeah, maybe what were you? What were you gonna say like the actual car? They're not gonna flirt with the car. I don't think no, I don't think so at this point. No, it's true If it's 2020, which is what Bloomberg reported. Yeah, never mind. I was just I'm attracted I think they're definitely several years away from any. Yeah, I retract Okay, good. That's good. That would have been barris and had you not retracted. Yeah, it's likely like out

I like outlook people will just We'll never see that whenever you hear that. No and had you not retry it. Yeah, it was likely like outlook. I like outlook people will just, we'll never see that, we'll never hear that. No. So I would say the phone is the most important thing because that's what they sell the most of. Right, well that's there. Actually, who wrote the article I was reading

somewhere, it might have been Bloomberg, where it accounts for like two thirds of their profits are phone, which is crazy. It's nuts, I mean, and I'm sure that part of them wishes that they had a more balanced business, just in case something happened. But the other hand, it's like, $100 billion in the bank, so who cares?

Right, and it's also like, well, we're gonna have the best phone business on the planet. Like, all right, let's keep doing that. It's pretty incredible actually when you think about it. I mean, that is in a pretty sure period of time. I think it's something that we'll never see again. But it is extremely rare. How amazing that business has become.

Not to like talk about going on about business too long, but like, no, by all means. It's crazy. It's not going to happen soon with something else. Like, it's definitely not happening with the watch. The watch is not going to be bigger than it. Right, the car would be tough. So, and even just for any company,

like that, the iPhone is truly like the thing of the last 10 years and maybe the next 10. Is there a comparable, is there something comparable from the past that you could look at that rose to be such a source of profit for a company and such a dominant, had such a dominant market position like for any other industry? I mean, I don't know.

A kale. That's wholly owned by one other company though. No, I don't think that's a problem. Yeah, I don't think so. I mean, it is a lot. I don't think it would be a piece of consumer technology. Wasn't the disk man, Nike's, you know, whatever they're maybe the whole star. I don't know.

That's a great, as a really good question. Yeah, maybe you can do a chart about it. It could be Microsoft Windows, but I don't know if that's, that's nowhere near as big. I don't know. It's hard to tell. I didn't write it out. Okay. So big. I don't know, it's hard to tell. At any rate, okay. So I have one story idea from this. What, hold on. Oh, Paul engineer is saying bell telephone,

but I think that's a, well yeah, but okay, he's saying that was a monopoly, but the iPhone actually, here's the weird thing about the iPhone, not a monopoly. Actually doesn't have the biggest market share in smart phones. And you wear it. Even in the US, it's most dominant market.

Right. It is, they sell fewer iPhones than Android phones. But in terms of revenue, it's like a much larger generation. In fact, when people basically aren't making money on Android phones, they're very little money. Samsung's probably making a few bucks. A little bit. A little less than they used to be.

Yeah. And yeah, so to that point, Paul, you're wrong. Dead wrong. Okay. Wow. He said we got him. You can't hear him, but I'm telling you that's what he said. He totally has put the white flag up at any rate.

Okay, so they're going to introduce these new phones. Yeah. They're going to have this feature called Force Touch, which everybody's talking about, which is a, already exists in the watch. You're wearing the watch right now. You're wearing the watch. And Force Touch is essentially a hard press. You can push it harder.

Yeah. And it does something else. Yes. Now, I raised this, I think I was talking about it with Joanna Stern. Does it seem different than long press to you right now? I've never had an Android for very long, or actually I've never had an Android that I've used for more than like five minutes. Wow.

So I am not qualified to answer that question. Yeah. But conceptually, no. It's pretty much the same. Now there is also long press in some iOS apps. Right. Like, there's long press on the icons to move icons around. Yeah, that kind of stuff.

And in apps, there's also stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So, what I want, I mean, I assume that yes, there are degrees, of course, with pressure, there are degrees of pressure,, with pressure, there are degrees of pressure, so different levels of pressure can do different things. On the watch, it doesn't stand out to me as a feature that is particularly meaningful. No, it just, it unhides hidden features.

Right. Which is what long press is, dude. It's the same, I mean, if you've ever used an Android device. Right, right. There's actually a lot of iOS apps that use the RDO app used to. Right. So, I guess what I'm wondering is, what is the implementation of, like, where, I mean, where will this come into play?

Do you have any idea where, like, a pressure sensitivity is really coming into play in a new version of iOS? Can you imagine that? I mean, I read an article today on 9 to 5 Mac, and then it's probably this is where it will do. Yeah, I was like, it'll let you skip ahead to like what normally would take like maybe two taps, you could force touch and it would just pop up the menu or something like that. I'm not sure.

I don't know. I think that, and this is, you know, this is a wow. What else did it say? I don't remember. Okay. You know, this is a wow. What else did it say? I don't remember. But like, one of my initial thoughts was, wow, this is probably the most that Apple has fragmented iOS now in terms of a feature that's available to one

or two phones that none of the other ones could have. So if you are writing software, you might have to like explain to people, well, you can do this force touch thing to speed up this app on two phones,, well, you can do this force-touch thing to speed up this app on two phones, but no one else can do it. Right, because you're gonna, you know, the upgradeers, how what percentage of current owners

are gonna be upgradeers, right? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. but still, and they've had this before where some phones were retina and some were in, then some were tall and some weren't. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation. But these were minor fragmentation I kind of didn't realize so much about iOS before, you really, it's really pronounced on the 6 Plus that the keyboard is sort of linked to the app,

what keyboard you get. And so when you pop up a keyboard, they're like, some apps have old keyboards. I remember when I first got the, whatever the iOS 7, whenever that's the first versions of that were out, you would pop up and the Gmail keyboard was still the old keyboard. Yeah, the old keyboard, yeah. And now on the 6 Plus, that were out, you would pop open like the Gmail keyboard was still the old keyboard. Yeah, the whole keyboard, yeah.

Yeah, and now on this X Plus, you see like it's just this big, this huge keyboard, because the whole app is big. It's like everything is scaled up as opposed to being sized for that display, which is sort of a little clunky. I mean, you don't think Apple's

gonna be that clunky. Well, yeah. What? No, I mean, there are different ways they could have done that, but I think that part of that is I think shaming developers into remaking their apps with the newest tools. You think so? And I think that that only works with some of them. I had like the ones who are engaged in not lazy. Right. And there may be other like reasons for doing it that way, but I don't know.

It's a minor fragmentation. Yeah, I don't think I actually don't think fragmentation. I know that people make a big day. It used to be a thing that people harped on about Android. I don't maybe, I don't really see it, but I don't feel like this is a concern for people. I don't feel like people are walking around going like, I can't run this app or this thing looks different on my phone. I feel like we'd hear a lot more about it from the general public if it really were. Yeah, I think it's an academic thing, especially that Apple Weenies are like proud of.

I don't think it actually has many Apple Weenies. Is that a technical term? It is now. I mean, there's definitely like, when you read the list of supported Android devices for like a bank's app or something like that, sometimes it's kind of hilarious because there's not that many of them. But yeah, I think that's probably been overblown and most stuff just works good enough. But so this fragmentation you're talking about, I don't think it's going to be that big of a deal. I don't think so either.

I just brought it up to be a to be a snob. To be an asshole. Yeah. Mission accomplished. But obviously you love Apple because you've never used any other phone. So you're a big fan. You're a big Apple fan, boy. Obviously. I'm not, I don't think I'm a fan. I would say that I, I've used Apple stuff exclusively for like 25 years now. And it's just, and I'm like, you know, this is the, the ecosystem works. All my stuff is there. I've never had anything else. I've never had windows. Do you ever feel like when you say that out loud, you're like a person who only eats chicken? I love all foods.

Isn't that weird? You like variety of foods, but I do. I love variety of foods. I love your electronics. I don't know. I just feel like here's my thing on it. I get that. And I listen, ultimately the Apple ecosystem

works tends to work really well. Although Google has, I mean, you use Gmail, don't you? Through IMAP, yeah. Oh my God. I know. Do you use these map and mail? Yeah, man. On your computer?

Yeah. All four maps. I don't really know what to say. Like that is a disturbing announcement. I also use the Gmail web app for, because I have 6G mail address addresses. Are they all from Don? No. Related. I have only one professional regret

and that's having six Gmail. Do you have from Don with Gmail.com? I do. Okay, good. So if you want to use that, you don't. No, only for calendars. Well, I don't understand.

Wow, your digital life sounds very complicated. From Don with FromDon.com. What's better? Do you have that? Of course. That's my email for like spam stuff. Do you also have Dan frommer.com? I do.

I have a lot of, see I have a lot of domains, but not a lot of actual, like I didn't actually turn them into things that I use. I had so many domains at the start getting rid of that. Yeah, I started deleting and ending like the, the, what do you call it? The auto renewal? Yeah, I have seen.

The auto renewal, because I've just been, I went through them and I'm like, wow, I'm really not gonna, now have seen. The auto renewal, because I just went through them and I'm like, wow, I'm really not gonna, now I might have kept this one, but at some point I bought Facebook with like eight A's. So it's like Facebook. And I don't remember if I still have it or not. I should do something with that.

I have a lot of crazy stuff. One day is like, okay, you're never actually gonna start up your, your transit criticism blog. So you should let subwaycritic.com go, you know, that kind of stuff. I have a film trailer reviews.net, which is which I actually did like six of, which was me reviewing film, film trailers. Oh, cool. I have a pornocyte that I registered a bone my whole calm,

which, which I was like making a joke to somebody. I can't remember what it was. I was making a joke. It's somehow the phrase bone my whole came out. Yeah, by the way, this podcast isn't for children. And I thought, that's definitely, I was like, that's definitely a good kid made it through the iPhone discussion. Yeah, they deserve this. I get it, yeah.

I was like, that's definitely a pornocyte. Yeah. And then I was like, oh my god, it's a knot. And then I thought it should be. So I better buy this. And then when somebody comes along, when the bone my whole productions people come along and they're like, we need this domain name,

I'm set for life. That's awesome. Basically. So hey, by the way, if you're interested in that domain, you're on myhold.com, you know who to talk to. I have crazy domains like that that I bought, like on a whim, because you know it's so easy to spend money on the internet.

Right. And domains the first year, it's like, oh, 395. And then they auto renew for like 20 dollars. I can't believe this. Yeah. I mean, the best thing of going to one of those auction sites and finding that old domains I had are now selling for a lot of money. I had a friend who was like, sometimes I look at what movies are coming out. Did I already tell this story on the last podcast? I'm asking Magnus. Magnus, my producer who's Swedish, by the way. I've never heard this story. Okay, good.

I had a friend who was like, well, sometimes what I do is I look at, I look at IMDb at movies that are coming out with like big actors in them and I buy the domains that I think they'll want for the movie. So I own, I maybe got rid of it, but I own adjustmentburomovie.com. Just in case you're wondering, oh actually, do I own adjustment bureau movie.com. Boom. Just in case you're wondering.

Oh, actually, do I own adjustment bureau.com? I don't think I do. I think what happened is somebody had purchased that. I think maybe they did. At any rate, it never panned out. They didn't come knocking for adjustment bureau movie.com. But you know, if you want that down, it's available. I'm pretty sure that the Mac rumors guy owns Apple Watch.com.

Really? He started it. He bought it rumors guy owns Apple Watch dot com really started it He bought it like to have a watch. Yeah, like Apple watch. Oh, wow. Isn't that funny? Hey, remember think secret of course Have you ever tried to go to think secret? No, no, not recently. It's like shut It's like denied it's like you can't get there. It doesn't exist anymore It's like not on the internet and there's no it doesn't redirect to like a one-in-one sign-up page or anything. I assume Apple owns it or something. I don't know. They probably have to own it. Remember how mad Apple used to be about leaks? Oh, right. And when things got leaked, people would have pictures or they'd have a hands-on

of a phone or whatever, people would like get arrested for it. That was the end, yeah. And now they... Now it's like, I've seen the new iPhones completely constructed and they're packaging. And nobody cares. And Apple makes jokes about it in Siri. Right. Oh, does this go check out the rumor sites or something? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Those were different times. All right, let's take a break. And we come back. We're going to talk about Apple TV, Apple Television. No Apple TV. We'll be right back. Okay, it's finally happening. Opening week of the NFL regular season. I'm not sure what that means,

but Magnus tells me it's extremely important. And it's the last chance to join FanDuel before opening weekend. So everybody's freaking out about fantasy football. I know a bunch of people who are playing at Magnus has been, and he's basically been in tears with excitement waiting for it to happen. And this is really the best way to do it. It's not just for sports, not to see there.

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You just pick your players. Stay under the salary cap and sit back on Sunday and watch your team win. And entry fees started just a dollar. So anyone can play. Bangness is playing a lot. As I said, he basically lives in America just to participate in American football. So this is a big deal for him. He did very poorly last year, but he's getting acclim just to participate in American football. So this is a big deal for him. He did very poorly last year, but, you know, he's getting acclimated to our

country's ways. And I think this year is going to be different for him. Last year he was rooting for the Jets. So I think you can imagine how he did. Apparently the Jets didn't do very well. I'm told, but for this season, he has his eyes on the ego, Sam Bradford, if he can stay healthy and is banking banking on the receiving skills of the Lions Amir Abdulla. To be honest with you, I don't really know what any of this means, but Magnus swears

it's extremely important information. Have you built your team for week one yet? If you have let Magnus know, he'd love to hear from you Magnus at tomorrowpodcast.com. Or you can tweet about it. They have a hashtag, fandulaisback. Throw that on your tweets. You can go to fandule.com and click the microphone in the upper right hand corner and use my code tomorrow to sign up right now.

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Today's show is also sponsored by Casper mattresses, obsessively engineered American-May mattresses at a shockingly fair price. And now you can get $50 toward any mattress purchased by going to Casper.com slash Joshua and using code Joshua. Listen, you spend a third of your life sleeping. Let's make sure you're doing it on a good mattress. Casper brings together two comfy technologies for better nights and brighter days, late-text foam and memory foam. So, they've got just the right sink and just the right balance no matter how you sleep. They've got a risk-free trial and return policy that will deliver the mattress straight

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So get $50 toward any mattress purchase by going to Casper.com slash Joshua and use code Joshua. Terms of conditions of class. Okay, we're back and I say we talk about Apple TV and goddamn it, that's what we're gonna do. Apple TV, there's supposed to be a huge announcement at this Apple event, it's gonna be some subscription stuff

maybe, some like cord cutting stuff, the people are gonna be able to make apps for it. Do you know anything about this? I think the apps are the big deal. And I wrote a post, I don't know, like six years ago, saying it's time for Apple to make apps for the Apple TV. Use a lot. Like six years ago.

No, it's true, but it's been sitting into the stagnant horrible. I mean, it's also like the interface is terrible. It's weirdly like better than a lot of TV interfaces, so you kind of forgive it, but it's really bad. And they keep adding apps from different providers, from different like content producers, but they're not really apps.

No, they're like glorified XML fees. Right, and it seems like it would not have been a large jump for them. I mean, they already have like, you can mirror your phone on TV. So you can like play any game on your phone on your television, which is done through streaming, but it's not a large jump to go, like, oh, put the iPhone brain in this box, scale it up to TV resolution, profit. Yeah,

you know, like, literally, this is going to be, if they do it right, could be a massive cash cow for them. I think it could be really big. I think that, uh, immediately, like, the things that jump to mine are, so anyone who owns video is going to be able to make a much nicer home for that. Like imagine what the designers at Vimeo could have done if they actually had control over the way that they're like, look, it works. Or not. Or anybody.

Shopping could be interesting, you know, if Apple pay is somehow integrated into it and you could browse a catalog with video and that kind of stuff that could be cool. That's interesting. I just made that up right now. That's good. And I'm gonna go home and start an Apple e-commerce shopping. Games, obviously, like, maybe huge.

Yeah, I mean, if Rossi wrote on the TV, come on. I mean, think about this. If Apple were to, and I'm not saying they're gonna do this, but if they were to actually, I mean, they could create a pretty powerful piece of hardware. It's not going to be Xbox One level, but it could be pretty good. If they played their cards right and you had the right partnerships, they could seriously damage the Xbox and PlayStation business.

I mean, they already have to some degree, but not in the living room, really. Correct. And with stuff they've put out like that metal thing they made that that lets yeah like game developers write directly to the hardware and that kind of set well you know that that actually isn't what happens but she just made up the feature. Yeah so gaming could be really interesting and I don't think like you know I don't know if Grand Theft Auto is anywhere near console level on this thing.

Right. But maybe that's okay, you know. Right. If it's 150 bucks and you get all the other stuff, and you get some pretty good. Yeah. You play in crossy road and desert golf and kind of stuff. They have crossy road for the fire, I think. Oh, yeah.

I think they do. And I think I played it. And it's pretty fun. Right. So one of the big questions is why hasn't gaming taken off on Amazon's Fire TV or Stick or the Roku? So I think I have a theory. I mean, I'm just this is just in the middle of this conversation. I don't actually know if this is true. I do feel like the audience is somewhat different. I think that I mean, like my aunt has a Roku. She thinks it's great.

I don't think she's the audience that I mean, I think there are a lot of people who walk into a best buy and walk out with a Roku because they want to watch Netflix and some other stuff on their TV. I don't know that the audience is necessarily enthusiast. I know that a lot of enthusiasts have them, but I think if you're an enthusiast and you've a Roku, you probably have an Xbox or you've got a PlayStation. And so you're not thinking about it for your gaming. You know, I think families have wheeze in Xboxes or whatever. And I think a lot of people have cable and a game console

and they don't have a third box. They might even be simpler than I think Apple's gonna have better developer tools for games. They're gonna have a better way for game companies to make money. And they have a network effect. I was only saying why people, why it hasn't broken through yet.

I think Apple changes it by the things that you're saying, but also just in the fact that they can market the idea better than anybody. I mean, when you get right down to it, their marketing force is insane. And so like watches, for instance, much of like the excitement about the watch, I mean, almost all of it,

it's not like the watch doesn't mean it's so wildly different than other watches that are on the market. I mean, it looks a little bit better, it certainly does things better, but I do think like the attention that it got for the watch is unbelievable in comparison to what other people were able to generate. It was probably the biggest most manufactured amount of anticipation and hype of all time. In it like a non-sports category. I would say, and I would say even for Apple, it was a particularly, it felt like a particularly shallow. Like, it didn't feel like there was this like, oh, finally they've answered the question

that everybody's been waiting to have answered. It was kind of like, hey, Apple has a new thing and they really, really want you to know about it. Yeah, and they're like, oh, we need to fashion influencers. But then they went after the wrong ones, the ones who just don't really care and actually don't have much influence at all. And it's like, and I'm be Katie Perry had one

beyond saying that one. And that worked, I guess, because everyone, well, every time someone was photographed, like Drake's hilarious photo with his red red gold watch like sitting with his hoodie. I don't know that. Oh, I don't remember. I missed it. It was a while ago.

Anyways, interesting. He doesn't wear it every time that happened. Anybody wearing it? There was an article about it. Have you seen any celebrity wearing an Apple watch recently? No. I think if I want you right now, has there been a picture of Beyoncé since that one picture of her wearing the Apple Watch?

Maybe you guys, hey, Magnus, maybe you can research in there. Can you find a reason photo Beyonce and tell me if she's wearing an Apple Watch? Also Katy Perry. Also Drake. My guess is no. Did you have to have one? They were gifts.

I think honestly, the reason I like mine so much is because it's mine, because I paid for it, and it's mine. I got to wear it mine because I paid for it and it's as mine He were like I got to wear it now. I paid for it See that's like a segue thing I always think when I see a guy on a segue and I remember very distinctly. I was oh come on I was in I was in Manhattan. I'm not comparing that to it I mean I'm pretty much a segue in the sense that I remember I was in Manhattan

I saw a guy going down the street He was wearing like a business suit in a full suit on a segue and he had this look on his face It was very distinct. And here's what the look was. I bought this thing and I decided, like I'm not gonna write it because I look like a fucking idiot on it. And my wife was like, you spent $5,000,

however much a segue is, was like, you spent $5,000 on that thing and you're gonna fucking write it. And the look on his face was a guy who'd been made out of like kind of shame shame and punishment by somebody. He could have been his wife, husband, whatever. I don't know. Maybe a mother or father was forced to basically write it because he'd spent a lot of time. That was the look on his face that I got from that scenario. I'm not saying that's the look

on your face. I don't feel that. What you just said is similar to that idea. You bought it. I bought it. I actually don't feel that way. you just said is sort of similar to that idea. Yeah, I can see that. You bought it. I bought it so I can't wait. But I actually don't feel that way. I've only actually forgotten it once. You love it. Do you love it? I really do like it. Yeah.

I've only forgotten it once. And that day, it was crazy. My arm felt crazy not having it. Really? Yeah. That's weird. Because do you ever watch normally? Never.

Oh, see, that's interesting. I wear watch all the time. And it did for many years before the Apple watch and so That experience was not new at all having that Little bit of information on your wrist and have it in that feeling I but you know, I like the Apple watch does some things that are really interesting I there hasn't been something that's so compelling about it that has made me want to keep wearing it like it just hasn't felt like This is the thing that I need.

I will say part of it is the design. I mean, I just don't, it's a nice looking object. I don't like the way that looks as a watch. You know, I think a lot of people feel that way. I actually think the new Samsung, this may be a good segue into talking about Samsung. Because I want to talk about the new Samsung. And by the way, I didn't think I'd ever say these words.

So just appreciate how meaningful they are at listener. The new Samsung Gear S2 watch, Gear S2 classic, I think is what it's called. It's fucking names. I mean, they got to come up with better names. They just call like the Samsung watch or like the Samsung time or something like that. Like just say what it is. The new version of it looks really nice. It looks like a watch. It's got a circular display. It actually has a really intelligent one. I think it's a really intelligent interface, which is it uses the classic version of it actually has like a, a narrow bezel around it that you can turn to move through menus. And then the other versions, I think it's also

a capacity, the other versions have a capacity, you can use the ring around the watch, around the face to navigate. It also as a touch screen. But it's almost like an iPod wheel. Kind of scroll wheel. Yeah, yeah. And the interface looks nice, and the watch itself looks really, it looks like a watch.

It looks like a watch I would wear almost. So what's interesting though is it's running Tizen, which is Samsung's proprietary operating system, which they bought from Nokia, I think. Do you know? I can't remember now. I don't remember. I feel like it was something that Nokia or people who were offshoots of Nokia were working

on and they gave up on this. Was this the Symbian follow? It was the Symbian follow, maybe it was. Yeah, I don't know. It's been so long now by the Symbian, I totally forgot it existed until you just brought it up. But not all of Europe, I understand. It was very meaningful in Europe. I don't know, it's been so long now by the symbi, and I totally forgot existed until you just brought it up. But not all of Europe, I understand it was very meaningful

in Europe, but it runs ties in non-Android. It works with Android devices, but there's Android Wear, which is built for watches. And did you write something, you just tweeted something? I assigned it. Oh, you signed it. Yeah, I signed it to my colleague. You tweeted something that you assigned it. Yeah, I signed it to my colleague. Um, you tweeted something

That what are you assigned it? Yeah, not signed it. No, you're saying like you give it your approval Co-signed you co-signed. I assigned it But it basically it was basically like Samsung's continuing to move away from Android by releasing this watch And I mean does that really it's totally compatible with a lot of Android devices it is so I mean So as always on Twitter. I'm you know one third or two thirds kidding compatible with a lot of Android devices. It is. So, I mean. So as always, on Twitter, I'm, you know, one third or two thirds kidding. Okay. So this thing, yeah, it wasn't, I mean, you're just pretty serious about that. I'm pretty serious about that.

So I see Samsung, so Samsung is Google's biggest Android partner. Yeah. They are. They only brand the matters with Android. I mean, when you talk about, when you talk about, when you talk to a normal person, they're like, oh, I didn't want to get a Samsung. Like that's how they talk about Android essentially. Totally.

And Android is Samsung's biggest platform. They need each other. But Samsung also wants to have options. And so it was trying some Windows stuff in the past. I don't think they make any more of it. That did not work. It did not work. So now they have these.

I'll go with ties into it. I don't actually know how you're supposed to say it. I think it's ties with. Let's stick with ties. It's ties in. They have some ties and phones, I think, that'll go with ties into it. I don't actually know how you're supposed to say it. I think it's ties. Let's stick with ties. It's ties in. They have some ties and phones, I think, that they're not so like product. They're the ties and phones they've done are,

I think they're sort of focused on lower end in the cheaper side of the market and also in developing countries. Yeah. I think they've built those to be sort of a more affordable device. I could be wrong. I don't know that. Yeah, I mean, they may have a high end Tizen, but they certainly haven't had any market impact whatsoever.

I mean, they've seen most practical in markets where they don't use a lot of apps because data is expensive. Right. Because Tizen does not and probably will never have the app support that Android does. They said that the watch is going to have like 2,000 apps or something. The watch does. And that was this surprising number to me. Like Uber and ESPN and stuff. So no joke apps and you know,

maybe making a watch app is comically simple for that. I have no idea. So I must have very limited functionality. Right. I just wonder how that's gonna relate to, I mean, I'm sort of bummed about it because, well, first off, if Android wears an up to the task, I'm actually fine with the about it because, well, first of, if Android Wear isn't up to the task, I'm actually fine with the idea that,

Sam's saying, we don't think we can do everything we want to do with Android Wear, so we had to kind of go our own way. Yet we've made it compatible. But is it compatible? Like, if I've got a Nike app on my Android device, does it talk to the Nike app on the watch? Like, I don't know how that works.

I don't know how that works. I don't know if they have a translation layer for certain things like notifications and certain pieces of data. If that's the case, Like, I don't know how that works. I don't know how that works. I don't know if they have a translation layer for certain things like notifications and certain pieces of data. If that's the case, I kind of don't care what OS the watch runs. Just like the iPod, you know, whatever the iPod was that was, you know, the smaller iPod

that had some functionality, some sort of iPhone like functionality. I can't think of which one it was. Recently, it was like the Nano or something. But it was running of not iOS. It was some like, Java or something. Yeah, right, but it doesn't really matter

because it does what it needs to do. I think that's fine for all. Yeah, I think that's a good, I actually think that's a really good, but do you think it's a market, do you think it's a statement that they're like pulling away or do you think it's there like Android where isn't as developed as we want

and doesn't give us the freedom to do X? Yeah, I think it's a little both, but I mean, so another thing, another major thing that Samsung's doing is is their own mobile payments thing, Samsung Pay. Right. And that's another thing where Google could have, and they, you know, I think it's pretty much

out in the open that they're doing something called Android Pay or something like that. No, they announced that at IO. But I don't understand, Android Pay, Samsung Pay and Apple Pay are all essentially the same thing. Right. And I mean, but I don't understand. Android pay, Samsung pay, and Apple pay are all essentially the same thing. Right. And I mean, they are actually the same thing, which is like, you register your card with one of

these things. And then you can hold your phone up to an NFC device and it'll make a payment. Yeah. And if you're Google, I'm sure you're going, Oh, man, like, why is our biggest partner competing with us? And if you're Samsung, you know, you, I don't know. Well, I think this is part of this, you know, I was talking actually to get back to the Apple TV a little bit. The Apple TV, to me, the biggest thing that Apple can do that will make it a meaningful device, obviously, they're going to, I mean, they have to figure out

a way, if I'm a person who's considering not having cable anymore, they have to figure out a way to like string together my various video services in a way that is cohesive, right? Like, I need some way to navigate that stuff that feels like I can get to the wide variety of content that you have, not just from Apple, but from Hulu, Netflix, ABC, CBS, whatever Fox. I mean, presumably Fox is going to have their own, would have their own app, ABC would have their own app, they're not going to be channels on a dial

anymore, right? Right. So this is supposedly happening. So this, so if Apple can one make a, some kind of a program guide that like pulls all of that stuff together, I don't know if they can, but I think it needs to exist in some way. I think it's happening. And, and universal search, but a real universal search that doesn't give preference to apples

offerings. You know, because, like, for instance, there are many opportunities I paid for Ghostbusters a while ago, because I thought I couldn't get it on Netflix, but it was available on Netflix. I just didn't search. Every single time. And this happens to me. You know, the reality of that stuff is that it's totally aggressive to consumers. It's completely adversarial to consumers, to force them into like your ecosystem,

because you don't want to share the wealth. You want their money, essentially. And what Apple does, I mean, what all of these companies do, and this is to my thing about Samsung Pay, I just got the new Note 5, which I actually think is kind of a cool device, and it's big. But Samsung's making pretty good phones now. Like I gotta say, the hardware is really nice. The software is greatly improved. The biggest problem is battery life, in my opinion at this point.

Like they really have a problem with it. Anyhow, that's an aside. But they just wanna be, you know, they've got Samsung Health and all these apps that are trying to be like, you've got Google Fit and then you've got Samsung health and everybody wants you to be part of their like world. And it's just bad for the consumer. And I think the Samsung pay thing is bad for the consumer because it makes confusing. You know, yes, it gives. But it is.

But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is.

But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But it is. But the thing. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. And like Google stuff has been blocked by carriers, or I think maybe Samsung pay is also being blocked by Verizon or something like that. I'm sure it's possible. I mean, whatever is happening, it is like, it is problematic. Something's being blocked.

It is problematic for consumers. I mean, what there really should be is an agnostic standard for payments, for mobile payments. I mean, what's crazy to me is to think that, I mean, in countries like Japan, there is essentially like an agnostic standard for payments, for mobile payments. I mean, what's crazy to me is to think that, I mean, in countries like Japan, there is essentially like an agnostic standard for payments. I mean, I don't know that all the details of it,

but I mean, I have not been to Japan and use this system, but the reality is, well, what we lack, which Japan has, is central body, which I believe is the train system there that says, this is the way that payments work, deal with it. This is what I want. I want there to be, I want, this is the way that payments work, deal with it. This is what I want. I want there to be, I want,

this is people are gonna go crazy. I want the government to step in and just regulate some of this shit. And just be like, you guys, you know what? We're gonna do, we're gonna actually participate in this in some way. But I mean, it works in other countries. It does work.

I mean, there are socialized things that work in other countries. Like, I think we can do some of that here. I'm not saying we have to totally have the government regulate everything, but somebody with some broader authority, I think needs, I mean, I don't think the payment stuff is a big deal right now. I don't think it's... Well, wait till there's state IDs that are digital

and every state has a different technology because everyone's got suckered in by a different vendor. This is exactly what I'm talking about, though. There does need to be, as we enter this new era of living, there should be some cohesive, and I'm just saying about America, because in other countries, this actually does happen somewhat. There should be some cohesive thought and action. Okay.

Now, I'm sure everybody is listening to this, and he's like, yeah, like the Obamacare website or whatever, but that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm saying, like, let everybody do their thing, but make force them to agree on certain things, force them to work on certain standards together, say, like, what is good for a citizen or a consumer, instead of always what is good for the bottom line of the company?

So I do think that's what happens and we have this, like, kind of horrible ecosystem lock and I was talking on Twitter about the Apple TV stuff and somebody was like, will I be able to watch my Amazon stuff on Apple TV? Because they have an Amazon video app for the phone but you can't buy Amazon content on it, right? So like think about this situation.

You've got Hulu, I can buy Hulu content such as I pay Hulu for a subscription service and I watch content. I pay Netflix for a subscription service and I watch content the same thing can be done with I think CBS has something It's a couple of these networks, but you can't have a store Where you buy things right you can have a store where you buy clothes Right you can buy a shirt on the in the J crew app. Yeah, you can buy physical stuff My physical stuff, but you can't buy virtual Virtual goods, Apple wants their 30% cut,

and that's just not feasible for a lot of businesses. And you have to look at like, when you get to, like Amazon for instance, I can buy content at Amazon like a store, like you'd walk into, I can buy a DVD at a store and play the DVD on any DVD player in the world because there's a standard, essentially, that was agreed on at some point.

That was a standard that won, let's say. Yeah. I think Amazon is so deep into prime now that I think they will make an app for the Apple TV, because they just want people watching. So they'll offer prime content and whatever you've purchased elsewhere. But I'm saying, like, you do get to that question where it's like, well, what about if I want to buy something using my Amazon account to watch on the Apple TV, which I should seemingly be able to do You've to like go to your computer. That's the probably a good thing

It's really still be a web browser on the Apple TV. No, I don't think there will be Do you think there will be no? I feel like that's exactly what Apple doesn't want you to do with the Apple TV I feel like they don't want to make it seem like it's another Like do everything device. I don't think there'll be mail on it. I don't think there'll be messaging on it. Maybe messaging, now that wouldn't work because you're in a room full of people and you get a message. Who's that message goes up on the screen?

It's not gonna work. Everyone's. No, I think it'll be a consumption and entertainment device. I don't think I think it's just gonna be a much better one. I would hope it'll be better because the current one is kind of like whatever. Do you think they'll have like a Twitter overlay

and that kind of stuff, social TV, you think that, or you think that was an idea that, yeah, that it is. That's bullshit. Nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants to see Twitter on their TV. You want to see Twitter on your phone while you're watching TV.

That is real. That happens if you're like, it's event programming. But you're not going to, this is such a ridiculous idea. This is like, remember when MTV used to display their AOL chat room on the screen? Vagely, maybe, I don't know, I don't remember the chat room. That's something something something happened.

They don't have a censored version of their chat room. But this is like, listen, this is like, you know, TV, everybody on TV is like, put Twitter, let's put Twitter comments on like, so on, so on, so on, so says, wow, that's a great idea, Wolf Blitzer. It's like, you know what, nobody fucking cares about that shit. I mean, seriously, people don't, I don't really care what people on Twitter are saying about what's happening on CNN, like while I'm watching CNN. You know, I just kind of want to see what CNN's doing. On the other hand, like, I will look at my feed on Twitter and see what people I know.

I care what people I know are saying, right? That's the whole point of something like Twitter or Facebook. Right. So the question is, if you could log in with your Twitter ID, would you want to see that streaming over the video? No, I wouldn't. No. I would not want to.

I think my Vizio TV offers that feature and I think I used it once. It would bother me greatly, in fact, to see a Twitter feed alongside my entertainment. Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm a human being. I can direct my attention into different places if I want to.

True. I do think a lot of our problems with technology and some of the stuff that people think they're solving is actually solved by behavioral changes. I actually wrote about this in my Apple Watch review, which is like, this is really interrupted and annoying more so than... Totally, I was at a bar last night

and almost got punched in the face because I got a bbb on my wrist and I looked at it and should not have done that. You almost got punched in the face because I got a brrrr on my wrist and I looked at it and should not have done that. You almost got punched in the face by hand. The person I was at the bar with, who got very mad at violence. Did they have violent person? No.

Who else that person? It was a friend of mine and they were very mad that I was looking at my watch. Yeah, I mean, it's rude to look at your watch normally because it makes people feel like you're like, okay, hurry up, I got something better to do. When you look at the Apple Watch, it requires sometimes that you really hold your gaze to try to see what the information is.

And it's like 10 times as rude. But like anyhow, but where I got to in the review was basically like, it's not Apple's job to make us less distracted. It actually isn't. It's our job to figure out how to behave better. And I think you think like there's a big like behavioral change that has to happen. Like we're just mesmerized by these things. Now I think we spent the last seven years or whatever

six years being totally mesmerized by technology. And now I think very quickly we're going to start to figure out like etiquette around that stuff and what is and isn't working. You know like walking into like telephone polls can only happen so much before you're like I'm going to stop doing this all the time. I don't think everybody's gonna get it at the same speed, but I do think like they're a new etiquette will emerge that is very clear about like when and where and how like you use these things. All right, so okay, logos.

We get to have logos. The most important thing. This, I find it to be very important personally. Maybe if some people don't want to. Okay, Hona, really quickly, before we get to logos, you mentioned before, before the podcast that you had a radio show. Oh, yeah.

Where was your radio show? At Northwestern in college. Okay. 3.30 to 5 a.m. It was called Fromming at the Mouth. Oh my God. 3.35 a.m. every day? No, once a week.

Oh, okay. Yeah, that's insane. Well, I worked at a bar, so I would go to the show after the bar. You were like a bartender? First I was a bouncer, and then I was a bar-bomb. Wow. I didn't know you were like a bartender? First I was a bouncer and then I was a barbell. Wow. I didn't know you were a tough guy.

No, I was like the junior brown. Can you fight? Are you a fighter? Do you box? It was Northwester and there was no fighting. Okay. It was like a rowdy football players and mostly sorting your fake IDs, which was actually great

because I was a designer, I was a web designer, so I could easily tell which IDs were fake. So you were continuing your career from the page of hell or whatever? Phonetoma's page from hell. Page from hell. What did you play on the show? First I was a journalism student. I was a broadcast person.

My dream was to go into radio actually. So first I tried to make it like a comedy talk show. I grew up in Chicago and there was a really great comedy slash rock station there called The Loop, and I listened to that constantly. So I thought, oh, I'll just do a show like that. That'll be really fun. And I realized how much time it takes to produce, even like 10 minutes of funny radio.

So I did that once for like 20 minutes of the show. Right. And then I just played music. And it was a combination of, so I would have like themes. So during the summer once I had Polish and Eastern, half Polish, I would play Polish hip hop and like random like German rock.

So it was a travel log really. Yeah, it really was. And then the rest of the time, I would go into the music library and just look in the drawer that was marked new and it was just stuff that shipped in and I would find the most interesting band names covers that kind of stuff and just play random stuff. And because it was so late at night, no one really cared.

Interesting. It was very interesting. Did you ever have callers? Yeah, there was one guy who would call every week named Tyrone and he wanted to talk about network television shows. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

Really late night. Actually, my senior year, I got the better times that was just two to three 30. Yeah. So that's finished. We're all really having. Yeah. So Tyrone would call up once a week and ask me if I want to talk

about real housewives. Did you? Did you? I'd let him call. Real housewives was on television. Maybe not. Maybe it was something else. All right. Real housewives was on television. Maybe not. Maybe there's something else. All right, so let's talk about logos.

Let's do it. Google has a new logo. Yeah, what do you think of it? You can say, come on. Don't hold that. I think it's fine. I don't care. But I do.

What a strong, shocking opinion. I think it's fine. I tend to agree with the people who say that it's infantile and like not elegant. Really? Their old logo was infantile and not elegant. And like I think personally, I'm not trying to argue with you. And Google is supposed to be a goofy like silly company, theoretically, I guess. That's kind of the image they want to project. Yeah. But this really feels like you're reading like a book for a three year old. I think what's happened is that people have realized the word Google and those colors are really silly for a logo. I mean, for a company logo, they're incredibly silly.

Like, it was never a cool looking logo ever. I mean, the previous Google logo was unbelievably ugly, in my opinion. I mean, it's like one of the ugliest logos for a company that's ever been created. And what's interesting about it is, I think I'm, maybe I should, I'm going to call this the Batman effect. I'm going to name this phenomena. I've talked about, I think I've talked about this in the podcast before, maybe I haven't. Something happens, it's kind of a magical thing when brands occupy a space in our brain that is like a feeling, more than like a literal sort of intellectual thought, which is like they stop things that seem, could seem really silly, maybe some is already hesitant

name for this, things that really would seem silly if you were told them. It's the Batman effect. Seem cool. Batman is like my favorite example. Batman is a stupid, really stupid name for a superhero. So it's Superman. Oh, what is he?

He's a Batman. Oh, he's a Batman, really? Like it's the least complex, most childish name you could think of for a superhero, okay? Like I mean, it's stupid. But yet when you say Batman now, you're like, Batman's cool. Like bat the idea of Batman's cool. You think only of like a badass who like kicks the shit out of the Joker and like defeats

the villains and saves Gotham. You don't think of how stupid the word bat and man together are. You know, there's a villain, Batman has a villain named Manbat. And when you think of manbat, sounds pretty stupid, doesn't it? Manbat sounds pretty silly. It's Batman reverse, okay? It's the same fucking thing. Superman is also stupid, I think. But I think what happens, and this is what happened with the Google logo. Google is such a cool company that has done so much amazing stuff for the world. I'm not saying like, I love Google. They do bad things, too. I do like Google, though, a lot. I think they're

a good company. I think they do mostly good things. But they were cool because they weren't cool. But Google has become a thing that's not even Google anymore. It's not even like you don't see the word. In fact, they stop even showing you the logo for the most part. But like you don't Google, you don't see as the name Google with colors and letters. Like that's just not something your brain processes.

What your brain processes is the idea of Google. And so like when you see the old Google logo, you're not seeing the logo. You're seeing like you're feeling something about what Google is, right? I think Apple, this to me is like one of the things that Apple has done most brilliantly. Like the most, I actually think iPhone is an incredible,

I think all of the i devices, all of that naming is incredibly stupid. Like iMac, iPhone, i whatever, it's so silly with the lower case i. Like I think if anybody else did it, if iRiver did it, which by the way, they did do, I think a series of iRiver, nobody remembers iRiver. I do.

Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam had, if Apple hadn't existed with iProducts and they did an iProduct or any Sony, I think a lot of people would have been like, this is a stupid name, right? But I do think that Apple has- This is happening with the Z before I think too. You do like a Z-pack. Sure, and I just think.

Z-pack, that's like Antibiotic, right? Z-pack is an antibiotic that is a totally unrelieved. A over-prescribed antibiotic. I remember I was really sick once when we were working on the verge and Marty Moe, the guy who I started the verge with. Love Marty Moe. Oh, you know Marty.

Yeah. Was like, I was like, deathly ill and I was at his apartment. He was like, dude, dude, just get a Z-pack. And I went to my doctor. I was like, what's a fucking Z-pack? I'd never heard of it before. I went to my doctor's like, my friend said I needed a Z-pack. And then like one day later, I felt like totally fine.

It was an unbelievable. I'm sure it damaged my body irreparably. Anyhow, so I do think like, I do think what the thing is with the Google logo, what people are actually in a lot of ways reacting to is they now notice it. Actually, one of the things that was interesting in a Bloomberg that happened when we redesigned the Bloomberg homepage is people who worked at Bloomberg

for who were there for 10 years, 20 years, who'd seen every iteration of the website, they were like, what's this red banner, what's this red thing you know, when we would do like breaking news, you'd have like a red banner across the top. Now they always had a red banner across the top. Like the version before that, before I got there, there was always a red banner.

But suddenly like people were calling from like the news, the news team and they're like, what's this red banner? I've never seen this before. I didn't know we were doing breaking news. Like this and I'd be like, yeah, that's always been there. But you notice it now because everything looks different and you see now what it is. Sorry, I'm kind of ranting here,

but I do think that what happened, in a lot of ways with the Google logo, I hear what you're saying about it looking childish, but I think at its core, it was always childish and goofy. That's true, especially the oldest one. I mean, the oldest one, but even the more recent one, if somebody had just shown that you didn't know what Google was, you'd be like, what is this for like a playground or something?

It's like these ridiculously childish colors with like this, you know, kind of serophy font, you know, whipping all over the place, basically like a glorified version of times or something. So I think what really, what people are seeing is like the thing that was always there that they've replaced with an idea, and now they have to like readjust their brains

to the idea of that as being the symbol for it. I think, personally, it's like a ridiculous improvement. I think it's so much better, so much more pleasing to the eye, so much more modern, but also in a way, like I think that if that logo appeared in 1965 or 7, 1975 or even 1980, like I don't think anybody would bad and I think it fits like it's really, it could have been from any time when like modern clean design existed, which I think is really saying something about it. I don't think it's like,

is it the best logo in the world? No. But. No, I would say it's 90% people just reacting to change as they always do. And everybody hates every logo when it changes. Right. Well, I mean, but you look at the Yahoo logo as an example.

Yeah. The new Yahoo logo is bad. It's ugly. I think it's a poorly designed logo. Like it doesn't look good. It's not just the old Yahoo logo was worse. The new one is better than the old one, but they're both crap, basically. Like I don't think the new Google logo is crap.

I just think it's for a lot of people to take some getting used to. And there's also like a lot of like, there's a lot of people who are like designers, to. And there's also a lot of people who are like, designers particularly, and I don't begrudge them this too much, but I do think there's a point where you're jerking off to the golden ratio instead of feeling the thing. Oh, and there's a combination of design and Silicon Valley, like that whole culture of.

There's a post that somebody wrote about why philosophically like philosophically the angles should be this or that. And it's like, you know what, at some point that stuff is really valuable and at some point, like I remember when I was like producing music, you'd be in the studio with people and you know they'd be like, I'm a classically trained musician in bubble. And it's like, yeah, well your music still sucks.

Like, I don't care how much you know about music and how much you logically think that should be better. Like classically trained musicians don't make the absolute best music in the world. And so, I do think there's a little bit of this kind of, in this naval gaze, in this pedantic attitude towards it, where it's like, well, just the angle of the E doesn't, it's incompatible with the rest.

And it's like, you know what? Logos aren't just about like math problems to solve, right? They're also about like how it feels, you know? Now, we're getting close to the end. We should end soon, but I just want to talk really quickly as a contrast of Verizon logo. Have you seen the new Verizon logo? Amazing. It's unbelievable.

Amazing. Have you ever seen a logo that, to me, it is like the non-logo. It's like, the old Verizon logo was terrible, but it was like, oh, that's Verizon. Well, the old Verizon logo said 1993 stronger than anything. Yeah, but this is literally, it's like lower case helvetica with a red check mark. Yeah, it's like, we're not here. Don't pay attention to us.

It's really bad. I don't know. I thought maybe you'd like the Verizon logo. Oh, maybe it's like the most productive use of PowerPoint of all time. Wow. What's your favorite logo of all time? Favorite company logo of all time.

One that you feel is beautiful and resonates with you. Um, you know, so on Froome Dome's Patreon Hell, I actually, after it became FroomeDome.com, I used to display logos at the bottom as a joke. There used to be like a, you know how people are, in magazine spreads, we'd be like, you know, this guy wears adidas and that kind of stuff.

So I had a whole, I had a bunch of logos at the bottom. It would be like from layers, and then I had the Chicago Transit Authority logo, I had Kiko Monsoi sauce, and I had a couple other logos. You actually have thought about this. I have thought about it. I'm sitting here thinking like,

I don't know if I've ever really thought about it, you know, and I think there is something I'm forgetting, like a Paul Ran logo that I, if I pull it out like I've got a book at home that's like Paul Ran stuff, you know, if I pull it out and open it, I'd be like, oh yeah, that's the one. I actually can't off the top of my head, I don't think like, oh this is my favorite, this is the logo that I'm, you know, feel. I like the Apple logo. I think it's simple and classic. I like the actually like the Twitter logo, the latest one. I think it's fine. Modern logos are tough, man.

It's hard. Well, because a lot of companies either because their company names ridiculous or for whatever reason they just go with a logo type, which is harder, I think, because then you need, it's more complicated. Logos are tough. I mean, they're really tough. That's why you have to admire the old American Airlines logo, which is harder, I think, because then you need, it's more complicated. Logos are tough. I mean, they're really tough. That's why you have to admire the old American Airlines logo which they took away.

Yeah, and I mean, the original AT&T logo, or the Paul Rand design one, which I believe he designed. And honestly, I have final answer. It's the old United Airlines logo which they took away and destroyed. Well, they always do that. And when we're so much better, it's usually so much better.

It's kind of crazy. You just wonder how people can destroy something and so obviously good. I don't think that happened with Google. All right, anyhow, we should wrap up. Dan, this was a lot of fun. Yeah, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it.

I did it some ranting. I apologize if I ranted. I loved it on our time. But you got to come back anytime. You got to come back. We can discuss what would happen about our the things we talked about cool if we if our predictions panned out Thank you very much. Thank you. Oh Report hold on last minute report before we sign off from Magnus

None of the celebrities are wearing their apple watches anymore. That's weird isn't it? They lost the charger. Yeah, they're like I just plays it. We can't get another one All right, that's our show for this week. We'll be back with more tomorrow next week. That doesn't make any sense. As always, I wish you and your family the very best. And I hope they don't work themselves to death on this labor day. you you