Tomorrow - Episode 23: Rembert Browne: Shadow Recruit

Episode Date: September 11, 2015

Grantland’s Rembert Browne is one of the most innovative and unpredictable writers working today. He arrives at the Tomorrow studio in the midst of a vacation to discuss his methods, why he hates scary movies (and how it relates to Josh’s aversion to sports), the shallow nature of pop culture, and far too much more to recap in this description. BONUS 1: Josh discusses a high concept future episode of Tomorrow! BONUS 2: Josh and Rembert had so much to discuss that they'll continue the conversation in another installment next week!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow I'm your host, Joshua Tupulski. Today on the podcast we discuss boners, Jack Ryan Shatter recruit, and lost. But first a word from our sponsor. Are you tech professional searching for a new company to share your tech skills with? Then you should check out Hired. Hired connects town with top tech companies. On Hired, software engineers and designers can get 5-plus interviews in a week, which is a lot of interviews.

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with calls for independence from British rule. The show has multiple, extremely hot, simmering plotlines that touch on politics, class, romance, and the rise of a nation. I guess today is an incredible writer, super smart dude, and really an internet personality. Rember Brown is here with me. Hey man, hi, thank you for coming.

We were, go ahead. Did you see me cringe when you said personality? I'm sorry. I couldn't, listen, I don't plan these intros. So whatever happens is just like an accident. I can do it again. There's a lot of say internet personality, but you are. No, let's give it a head because you're like, dynamic, dynamic, individual.

You're not like, there are people who just do this one thing. They're like, I write about politics, that's my thing. I just write about politics. But you don't just write about one thing, you don't, you have a podcast, you are on camera sometimes. You sometimes. I mean, you know, so you do, you have wide variety of things, you use that Instagram account. I do. I follow you on Instagram.

Instagram's so great. It's good. I'm a fat ass. I'm a fat ass. I'm a fat ass. I great. It's good I'm a fat ass is elder. Yeah, thank you. Did I see something last night? Oh, by the way, it's 9-11 We're recording this on 9-11. We are did so did I see something last night or today you had an Instagram of San Biddle drawing San Biddle from Gawker drawing like a girlfriend the worst thing I've ever I Went back I was looking for an old photo and sometimes when you just scroll up, scroll up, you remember a photo that you took and we were laughing last weekend that a bunch of friends were at my apartment,

San Biddle, and Cloday's very good friend of mine. And he was describing how he like the first time he ever like envisioned a girl when he was younger he drew her on MS paint and We were like, hey, he like had an idea of a girl He was just like I think I'm attracted to girls. I'm gonna draw one so he used his mouse to draw and was like J.O. material. Yeah So we're like Sam draw and in apartment, I have these gigantic sheets of paper. That's why I take notes and do lots of like, John Nashy stuff all over the wall. Really?

I got in trouble once for actually writing on my wall and then really get the deposit back. Yeah. But I did that. So I did that. You write on the wall? What? Not anymore, because I like getting my money back. back Do you do like do you have like the pins with thread? 90 more 90 more

Is it ever do that for real? It's super butterfly effect in my apartment So it's like a bad action catcher movie. That's not good Right, okay, so it's an action catcher Yeah, and we were like Sam like draw like draw and what what ensued was like one of the most terrifying stick figure women and I but I what I didn't realize like I always knew like I have like it's displayed in my apartment like art. Yeah, but what I do you have it up on what I what I didn't know is that I took a video of him drawing which is what I put on Instagram. Okay, that's what I do. It's terrifying.

I don't know if I was in an actual video. Maybe I just saw the still of it. I was like, I think I saw the still and I was like, I don't have time for this right now, but I can't believe I came all the way to the studio to talk about Biddle. I'm glad that you actually went straight into that. Anyhow, so I want to talk about you. Okay, I can do that for a period of time and then I'm gonna we'll redo the interest I don't claim it so I actually I already said this but I want to talk about a little bit So you write for Grantland I do you do Grandland dot com

Grandland dot com you may have heard of it. It is a describe Grantland of people who've never heard of it like a top five website It's a Google it's a describe grant land of people who've never heard of it. It's like a top five website. It's a Google. It's a Google Yahoo grant land. Yahoo answers. Yahoo answers. I think grant land. What's grant land? You're telling somebody, let's say my,

my mom, she probably never read grant land. Hey mom, I would describe it as a site that started as a sports and pop culture website, which in some way still is, but kind of this weird laboratory that employs a handful of writers and kind of lets them write about the things that interest them. And sometimes that falls very cleanly in a world of, you know, writer X writes about, he's a football writer So he writes about football, but sometimes he doesn't and just like decides to write about anything else

I'm gonna be super And yeah, I mean I yeah, I've only worked there for years I still can't no, I do not have to send the cover sports and call it pop culture Yeah, I guess I think it's interesting because Grantland Started like four years, oh, a little over four years ago. Yeah. And the verge is coming up on its four year anniversary, like this November. Yeah. And what I think is interesting about those two things, the verge was obviously my baby, is that they were both trying to do something where it was like,

it's this thing that you know that everybody covers really well, which is like sports. And in the case of the verge was technology, but then it's like also all this other stuff that's is kind of attached to it or seems right around it, if it's the right kind of tone, the right kind of subjects, but it's harder to define. Like when you look at Grantland, you see stories on there and you're like, well, why is this, I mean, one might be.

Why is this story about designing women? The only important thing I've ever written. I want to talk to you. I've got to talk about that. Why is this story about the truth, but the behind the scenes, you know, gossip about designing women, you know, sitting next to a story about Steve Nash, a Steve Nash, a basketball player. Yes. Okay. I got that right. I don't know anything about sports. Can I just tell you? I don't know anything about sports. Nailed it. Maybe today, are you like, are you a big sports fan? I am a, I have my teams. I have my L anything about sports. Can I just tell you I don't know anything about sports? Nailed it. Maybe today, are you a big sports fan?

I have my team. I have my Atlanta team. So I'm from Atlanta. I follow sports. I have knowledge in sports, but I also stopped knowing everything about sports in like 98. OK. Up till 98, I knew everything about me.

You knew everything. And 80% of my knowledge about sports stops in 98. 98 okay up till 98 I knew everything about everything and 80% of my knowledge about sports stops in 98 But I'm like but if anybody quiz you if you were like you had to do 90 sports true You crush right you crush it, but you know, I work at a website where half the stories are sports I know I know I know what's going on right, but but like the stories that are not sports at Grandland I mean for me it's you me, it's this amazing thing where I'm reading a site that is certainly heavily about sports, but there's probably

no other sports site that I would actually pay attention to. It really does cover culture in a way and stuff that's kind of like even makes sports sometimes seem like something I'm interested in even though it's very difficult for me to feel interested in it. I mean, it's culture, you know. It's like, it's a culture site and sports are part of the culture. And, you know, there are some, you know, very, like, analytical sports pieces that go

up and they're great. And then there's a story up today, one of our, one of our writers, Louise At Louise Atomas wrote like interviewed George Bush and talked about which one? The W. Yeah, about 9 11 and the Yankees Wow, and those things are the connection between The Yankees did it the end case. The end he did it. That's the real conspiracy. You didn't know. Well, that's interesting. I think that's on the that's on the, the home page next to Thursday night football. I guess today was the beginning of the NFL season. That's the perfect blend is like George Bush and the Yankees. That's like perfectly summing up. Content. Culture. But what I think is interesting about you

and like you did write that design and women story is that, and we already said this, I'm gonna say it again, cause I wanna talk about it a little bit. You're not like, I just write about this one thing, I just do this one thing. It does very much seem like you're chasing your interests and your passions through writing.

And Grant Land is a place that's letting you do that versus being at a place that doesn't really letting you do that versus being it being either at a place that doesn't really let you do that or how you know writers often say like I'm really good at this one thing I focus on this one thing I know this one thing. Explain how that happens like how do you get into a situation where that happens and how do you how do you allow yourself to keep exploring? I think for me I'm enjoying my job the most when I'm passionate about the thing I'm going to spend anywhere between four and 12 hours writing about stuff. I don't write short well, I don't write like a blurb, I like diving in, and like your

pieces are long. Even when, even like that Nicki Minaj thing. Yeah, they're just they're like my favorite thing is to kind of take a piece one or two steps further than any Xane person would take it because there's like this level of insanity that I love about just just over analyzing right something and not like for a reason. For me, it's like, no, this needs to be talked about. But it's almost like, sorry, go ahead. No, I was just going to say I, like the designing.

So basically just one morning, I was like, you know, I think I want to write about designing women. It's setting at land, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I, I could, I could rattle you know, I think I want to write about designing women. It's set in Atlanta, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I, I, I mean, I, I, I could, I could rattle off full, full episodes. I don't know that I've ever seen a single episode of design women. I know, I know the show, I know the characters, but I don't know if I've ever like, I could tell you what really was going on.

Big fan. What were the interior, yeah, they had a, they had an interior design firm. Right. And then they're women. The student bakers. And Gerald McRainey on that show? I don't know that is. He's like, oh, I do know that is.

He's like somebody's husband on that show. Yeah, sure, why not? He plays the guy, he's also in House of Cards, season two. I didn't, I never watched the season one finale of House of Cards. Oh, I got scared. So I literally had no idea. You don't know what happened. Well, I didn't know what happened.

And then two years later, I was walking in Columbus Circle and this bus drives by and it's Frank Underwood getting off of Air Force One. I was like, oh, no, I get this president. It gets pretty stupid. It gets pretty stupid. You were actually, no, no, no, you were, yeah, sorry. Spoiler alert. You were right to stop, no, sorry. Spoiler alert. You were right to stop watching after.

You should have finished season one, but even season one was a little tough. I stopped watching it because I was finding myself liking Frank too much. And then I was like, oh no, he's like a really bad person. That's the idea. And then I was having that internal. He's the anti here.

Like am I bad? No, but that's like, you know, Walt from breaking bad. I think you're gonna say Walt from loss. No, also Walt from loss. Wait, Walt's the kid, right? No. No. He didn't have, he was good.

He was a good guy. I think about loss every day. Do you? I think about loss every day. I also I also never lost. I never watched the season two finale. I got scared. You made the right decision. Season two is terrible. I stopped watching it season two and I was like, I'm done with this and then I like, you know, when it season five or something like Oh, shit. Well, they're gonna end it soon and now I want to know and they reveal what's really going on with the island and You made the right to don't ever pick it back up

Okay, there's nothing you will get nothing out of anymore loss than then the first past the first season It's all wasted time. I think my going back to the internet. Go back to designing. Oh wait or designing I'm kind of over pegs and like like like yes, pegging in the sense of like needing right like to wait for a moment to write about something right is like there I mean there's there's so many things about the day and day on internet that I I feel like there are just like many hills that I'm gonna die on because I just, I'm just done all of those things a million times. It's like, I like writing.

And sometimes I feel like I like writing, and I'm a writer, I just happen to work in this industry. That lets me write, but I don't wanna, I I don't need, like, I don't want to wait for someone to die. So I can write about deciding women. I don't want to wait on an anniversary. I just want to write about designing women. I think what you're describing is having ideas. I mean, basically, what I'm hearing from you is like, you've got ideas. I actually think this is really valuable and important. I think there is this thing. In fact, it's like what causes so much of what I find to be fucking tedious on the internet, which is like something happens and then everybody is like safety's off. It's our it's our moment to like cover this thing or tackle this thing and talk about it. When actually like every like to your point, the designing women think didn't exist until you made it and wouldn't have existed and didn't need, I wouldn't have ever had a peg.

I mean, maybe some, they're going to release like the 40th anniversary, die side women, box at blu-ray. You know, and you could have written about it then, but like I think that's, that's what ideas are, right? It's like when you're just like, something needs to be tackled, something needs to be covered and it doesn't have to be necessarily locked to something that's happening or some other like piece or response, you response. I mean, I think to me, that's like where the best stuff comes from. I mean, it's my favorite stuff to do. I find

it's the stuff that holds up the most. I remember getting to a point, maybe my second year in at Great LandWin. I was like kind of writing every day at that point where I looked up and I hadn't written anything that wasn't reactionary to the day before in like three months. They were good pieces and I think I did well in them and I like people enjoyed them and then like when 6 p.m. came around like they just like would disappear.

It was a pressure to do that. Like to people at the site say like,, can we write something about, like, are they thinking, Ram, can you do something on what's happening today? I mean, I think there are moments, I mean, the good thing about our staff is that typically when something, like simultaneously, there are multiple people that could tackle lots of things. So it's not like one person has to do cover this thing all the time. Like I'll get the music person on it. But you know, every like I think we all have our sweet spots where, you know, Beyonce drops a secret album in the middle of the night.

Like I don't need anyone to tell me to like write about that the next day. I'm going to just like just like wake up at 3 a.m. and just start writing. Because that's one of the reasons I'm here. And I think a lot of people, especially on our culture side, a lot of people, it's not really pressure, but people want many of our staff writers, our contributors or whatever, our takes on certain things.

And for me, there are definitely moments where I feel kind of a responsibility to myself and to readers and whatever, to actually write something well and not just crank it out. Not just write something. So it can be up. And my saving grace has always been, I'm just raking something. So it can be up.

And my saving grace has always been, I've never broken the score. I don't think I've ever gotten something up first. But that's always been nice. Even if I'm turning around something the next day, I've always felt like I had three or four extra hours to actually think about something. Yeah, but that's great.

I mean, that's like, that's like, what's lacking. I mean, to me, that is the difference between a really great thoughtful, smart take on something. And like, the, I saw this, did you see it too, take on it or like a fast take that really doesn't make, doesn't add up at the end of the day. Like the hot take, hot take culture is to me is like, it's very tiring, you know, at this point, there's so many hot takes. It's so, how many hot takes can a person take? That's what I'm saying.

Uh oh. I'm popping like in a cool way or my peas are popping. Well, I don't, what do you want me to do? I was just interrupted by Matt. We were just interrupted by Magnes, telling me that my peas on the mic were popping and not in a cool way.

Not. And my way up on the, I'll get off the mic a little bit. Don't say any words with the pee. I'll just avoid pee words. Okay, all right, I get it. Jesus, these guys over here. All right, I'll stay away from the mic. What were we talking about?

Before Magnes interrupts us. Hot were we talking about? Um, before Magnus and Rob for us. Hot takes. Oh, hot takes. Yeah. I mean, most of like a very large percentage of the, the internet writing content, all those words, it's like, it's like pretty bad. Yeah. And that's okay.

Well, because if you know how to sift through it. Yes, but it's also it Like knowing what so much like so much of the stuff that's out there that I don't like I don't feel the need to Participate it's like I can go do something right. I haven't really had an urge to you know be like, you know Like one man's take. Yeah, like you haven't done it. Where's your 9-11 story? I had, it's just in drafts. It was like, what 9-11 really mean? Crafts.

I love this is my favorite new construction. It's like, it's relatively new. It's like, you think you've been doing your taxes, right? But actually, you're totally wrong. So it's like, you don't fucking know how I do my taxes. You, I might be the best tax doer in the world. It's so good. Tax doer, by the way, actual the way to do it.

Tax doer, how you describe a person who does taxes. My thing is I don't, I think one of the, one of my saving graces is I don't assume that I'm just like smarter than anyone. That's a good, that's a good, no, I mean you are, but it's good not to assume it. But being smart, like being smarter, being smart is not what informs my writing. I just like, I write about things that I think about a lot. And I typically don't write about something until I've just spent a lot of time thinking about it, and then, you know, walking around and writing, like notes about it and stuff like that.

So like, when it comes down to writing, it's not that I am an expert in this thing. It's like, no, I've just probably spent more time in the past three weeks thinking about bar mitzvahs than you. And because of that, I'm going to write about bar mitzvahs. I spent many thinking specifically about bar mitzvahs when you wrote that in the beginning. I was thinking about bar mitzvahs in the cab here. Really? Yeah. Why? I got texts from my friend who's Bar Mitzvah. I went to. Yeah. I was like, oh yeah, that was a Bar Mitzvah. It's a really good story. I mean, go to Bar Mitzvah. I had very almost no friends when I was a kid. So, wait, what's a sad story?

Well, we have a big, well, saddest story I've ever told. I've easily never went to a bar. I went to a small school where you're 13, you have a party, you have to invite everyone. I wouldn't want to think about that. I'm going to take a break and then we're going to continue this conversation. We're going to take a commercial break. The first week of football season is in the books. How did your fantasy team do? Did you win money? No.

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me to not bring up last season. He's apparently very upset about the conversations I've had with you regarding his very poor performance. The scars are fresh and he's a very sensitive Swedish man. Instead, he's looking into a glorious fandall future, praying that the Oakland Raiders running back Marcel Rees will see a lot of action. He also put his faith in the break next beat of Cleveland Brown's wide receiver, Andrew Hawkins. And he tells me fireworks are about to start. Last year, user Joe Wonson from New York turned a $50 deposit

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Please visit Wealthfront.com to read their full disclosure. So we're back with Rember Brown, who is checking his phone. I put it back on airplane, Reverend Brown who's checking his phone. I put it back on airplane mode. He's just fully immersed in this conversation, but also just checking to see if he got his sex. So I put it on airplane mode. Okay, did you get any sex?

I respect any sex, sexual, sexual, podcast. Fandal supported. Oh, okay. So we were talking about, God, what were we talking about? Probably the Bar mitzvahs, Bar mitzvahs, hot takes, hot takes,

your pot, Magnus, who my producer, who's Swedish, if you don't know, he's a Swedish person, just said that I was going to have my own Bar mitzvah, which is racist. The theme, which is racist, which is extremely anti-Semitic and racist. But the theme of my Bar mitzo was Earth Day. It's like a little window into how fucking cool I was. That is so awesome. I think one of the things that we gave to everybody is like a little like parting gift was like a squeezy ball

that was in Earth. Yeah, do you know what I'm talking about? I love those. Okay, wow. It was like the continents were great. Yes, yes. And they had like the, like the continents were great. Yes, yes. And they had like the, like there was a texture.

God. And yeah, that's like the thing that I remember most about my apartment. So that and then it was embarrassing and horrible and I wish it had never happened. And I get a great joke out of my apartment, so which is I, which is I, you know, because I'm an atheist. People are like, you know, you Jewish and they're like, and I'm

like, no, I'm an atheist, like, but you had a bar mitzvah. And I'm like, well, I made a couple, but you had a bar mitzvah, and I'm like, well, I made a couple of grand and I got out of the business. I like that. It's my line. Did you have one of those big pictures where everyone signed around that?

I don't remember, man. I don't remember. I've tried to put it out of my mind. I don't know why you're an atheist now. I've tried to put the whole thing, I'm sure my, I'm comfortable with my parents when I listen to this because they probably would start crying, but I've tried to put the whole, my youth out of my, out of my brain.

Anyhow, so we were talking about the internet, which I'm writing on the internet. I was gonna say that the stuff that you write, and by the way, if you haven't written, I feel you haven't read anything that, that remember has written. Please stop right now and go, go find the stuff online. It's on the internet. You can also print it out like my mom does. But it is, does she? Yeah, sometimes. But it is. It's almost like if the onion were serious. I'm not saying that you write it's not you're not it's not parody Like the onion will write parody about things that aren't real like essentially it'll be like a joke but written in a very serious manner You're writing about real things and in a relatively serious manner, but they're some I mean they're often so strange in a relatively serious manner, but they're often so strange or so weird, I guess weird and strange or sort of, and strange is a good word.

But they are very funny, but they're real about real things. You did a piece about the Jackets Men War to Sundance, which was bizarre, it was very true. I don't know who else would have pointed this out or noticed this, but it reads almost like an un-article because it's so strange and outlandish. I was having a conversation with someone and we were just talking about blogging and fiction and non-fiction.

And I was telling her that as time has gone on, I feel like even when I'm writing about actual things, my mind is starting to wander into this world of fiction, even though I'm writing about weird things. Whereas there's just like a lot of, I like writing as characters. I like making inner monologues that don't exist. There's something like fantastic about it. When you, like some of the stuff you write has this almost hyper real, kind of like almost like a fantasy.

There's like an edge to it that is, this maybe this is me just getting a little bit to whatever about it, but there is like a kind of a fantasy to some of the writing that's like, it's outrageous. Yeah, that's fair. But that's not like you're making shit up. No, just the way it's written is like it makes things

that are real seem fantastic. Like pretty little liars. You wrote about pretty little liars, which is a shock. For like a year and a half. Which I've never seen ever, but like the way you wrote about it, actually it was talking to Laura, my wife about this,

who's also a writer and editor. But I was like, I just sent her a passage and it was like such a fantastic. It was like, I guess something was revealed on the show. I don't really know, because I don't watch pretty little liars. It was like how you're not gonna watch it anymore. I mean, basically, I wrote about it for a year and a half

as like a self haze, which is like a, if I had one beat, like the beat of hazing myself is like, trolling. Yeah, absolutely. It's like, you know, I'm gonna write about an ABC family show for a year and a half. Okay, but then you found yourself. And then I stopped and I loved it.

Did you love it? Yeah, but also did I, I don't know. That's the, but that's like, there's, there's like a, that is something that I do like, like that's not a made up thing that I'm like playing with the audience, but I feel like often I'm the, someone that's reading what I write is trying to figure out

if I'm hating my life or loving my life. And that's kind of, that's part of the process. That's part of the process. Like, there is always a moment when I was, when I would like write about pretty little liars where I was like, this is going to be 4,000 words. Why am I doing this? Like, why am I doing this to myself? But as I'm doing it, I'm having like so much fun. Is it also an excuse? Like, I mean, I'm an excuse, but you know, like, okay, so I'm going to talk about this. I haven't

talked about this yet, but I'm gonna talk about it on this podcast. Katie and the top, you know Katie and the top of us. Yeah. Katie and the top of us is my sister-in-law. And we have talked about doing a podcast where, and by the way, I wanna, I guess it's a good time to set this up. We want to watch, I have not seen, I've only seen a little bit of the Fast and Furious movies.

This is good, so. So we've talked about doing a podcast where we get all seven of the films which are now available as a like a set on iTunes. It makes a real convenient. And we drink and maybe smoke weed starting at the first film. Okay. And maybe whatever else we can get our hands on. And we do 10 minutes of podcasting in between each film. We watch it straight through getting progressively higher and drunker. And then we talk about our experiences. Why haven't you and Kaye done this? Well, we haven't had the time and we and I actually was saying like if we're gonna do it, I should probably what is Katie

doing? Well, she's very busy. Okay, she's she writes for Buzzfeed and they were air quotes. Air quotes, they were air quotes. She's writing things for Buzzfeed and you know, she's got likequods, they were Airquods. She's writing things for Buzzfeed and, you know, she's got, you know, her day, she has to troll people, she's trolling people like 50, 60% of her day. And she's like, she's like a, she does like, Buzzfeed fashion, you know, she's like Buzzfeed.

Oh right, she has a thing. Listen, she's very busy. Very busy. And I'm very busy, A man with no job. So you know, it's tough, but anyhow, so we've been playing on doing that. But why did I start talking about that? Oh, because like, I think the Fast and Furious movies look really bad. Like, I think they look truly like, if you ask me as a fan of film, do I think the Fast

and Furious movies are good? I'm thinking probably not. What does a fan of film mean? Like, you like, you like going to the movies? Or you like a cinephile? I appreciate great cinema. Okay. Those are seven of the best seven movies I've ever seen.

Are they? They're incredible. I know people who are like, you live in that. One of them is not good. It's the third one, isn't it? Tokyo Drift. Tokyo Drift is like not canon, right?

It's, yeah, it's like, it's like, like they just got a bunch of new people. It's like one, two, and then like two A. I think this is like something that happened. It happens occasionally in franchises where they're just like, every once in a while they'll be like, we couldn't get the people together. We'll just do one that's like not,

oh Halloween three is like this. Okay. Halloween three is not about Michael Myers at all. You're familiar with the Halloween films? I don't want to scare him of this. Really? I don't. Because you're scared of them?

Really? It's just fair. You know, Katie is the same way. I just like, I was like, I was like, what's my face? I'm furious. It's perfect. I was like, Why would I watch a scary movie really? I'm gonna scare me. You've never seen like you've never seen like the actressist. I've seen some of it and I stopped the actress is like the scary. I don't know if there's like The aim where I just like when I get scared I just stop watching things. This is what happened with lost Yeah, and this is what happened with housing cards. So when you said you were scared earlier, you meant truly afraid?

I was just like, I was like, I don't wanna have a nightmare. Like freaked out, like I'm scared. You weren't like, I'm scared, I'm gonna hate it, or I'm scared, I'm gonna love it, or it's like, I'd rather just go get a smoothie. And like, and like, be outside and do this. Why am I subjecting? Like, I have the agency to not do this. This is amazing. Why don't I

just like go play tennis. So this is amazing. Do you know why? This is blowing my mind because that's the same like when people press me on like why I don't like sports like one of the things that I go back to is I watched two seasons of I'm from Pittsburgh. I watch two seasons of, I'm from Pittsburgh, I watched two seasons of Steelers football, and Steelers, which now I will never watch it again, but I was like, at the end of the season, it was like so upset and stressed out,

and like, I was like, why would I subject myself? I don't have to watch this game, this game doesn't matter to me. It won't affect my life. And so like a lot of like what drives my feeling about sports is like, why would I get upset or angry or whatever over somebody losing a game that will never have any impact on like my existence? But you're kind of saying the same thing

about like scary stuff. Yeah, which is like why go through the trouble of getting like anxiety and getting having bad dreams or whatever. Wow. I never thought about it that way. That's just how... But I like that feeling watching scary movies. Yeah, and just...

What about David Lansing movies? I mean, there's, you know, there is this line of, you know, like the thriller that I don't mind. I don't... Thriller films. Yeah, like, Malice. I don't. Thriller films. Yeah, like, Malice. Okay, fair.

Malice. I was thinking more of like the, like probably my favorite genre of film is like 90s thriller. So like Malice. Like double jeopardy. Have you seen Malice? I know what Malice is.

I've never seen it. Oh my God. Alec Baldwin. Nicole Kidman. Bill Pullman. What? Yeah, dude. And I can't believe you haven't seen Malice. Wow.

Just do, can you just go home after this? Yeah. You'll watch Malice. OK. OK, anyhow, go on. So 90 thrillers. Yeah, like the whole Harrison Ford, like Air Force 1, yeah. Air Force 1, he was in another movie that was like Air Force One. Yeah. Air Force One, he was in another movie

that was like Air Force One. Yeah. Do you play the president in another movie? I think he did. Where like there was a hostage situation. Or was that Air Force One? I think he was there. All the get off my plane, man.

All the get off my plane. All the Jack Ryan movies. He doesn't play Jack Ryan. Who's Jack Ryan? There's a Ford. No. Clear and present danger. There's another Jack Ryan. Well, there are like four people. I mean, Jack Ryan shadow recruit. Obviously. Like Chris Pine. Chris Pine. Chris Evans. Chris Evans. Chris. Chris. Chris. Chris. Chris. I just like that. I just like that. Chris bioatt. I just like the, I just like the, Chris bio from, just, I just like the, what is it? Jack Ryan Shatter recruit.

It's such a long title. Like movies with Colens. Yeah. Anyhow, so wait a second. So you like the Jack Ryan films? Yeah. I think Jack, Jack Ryan was played by Alex Baldwin at one point. Yes.

Hover, October. It's like Bond. Jack Ryan's Bond. Yeah. He's like the American Bond except not as good as long Is he is good his franchise didn't hold up. Yeah, but they you get yeah, I mean Jack Ryan shatter recruit. He'd say more Me nice anymore and I think so Jack Ryan podcast host That'll be the next one. That's all they can get Jack Ryan to do now. Anyhow, so

you like 90 thrillers. Oh, so like, like, what's the movie with John Malcovitch and Clint Eastwood where he's trying to kill, John Malcovitch is trying to kill the president? Clear and present danger. Did somebody say that? Okay. Is that a Jack Ryan movie? No, it's okay. Is it? Is that Magnus? You're Swedish? Is that a Jack Ryan movie? Okay. He doesn't think so. Any So you like 90s thrillers, but you don't like if they verge and shit like sounds of the lambs you wouldn't like No, that's a great thriller. Yeah, but you wouldn't watch it. You've never seen it. I've seen it Again, enjoy it. You know, I feel like I needed to know about Hannibal Lecter. Yeah, you don't want to be the guy I saw red dragon I needed to know about Hannibal Lecter. Yeah, you don't want to be the guy. I saw Red Dragon.

That's the remake of Man Hunter. It was one of the Hannibal movies. Man Hunter is at the original film. Also directed by Michael Mann, right? Do you know about this? No, based on the book Red Dragon. Sorry, I'm talking to Magnus now. I'm sorry, I'm like, I've moved this.

Yeah, I can leave. I'm going to go. I can, I can, I just, I got this from here. Anyhow, okay, so I'm kind of getting it now. How the fuck do we get on this topic? Oh no, man. This is great. This podcast is best when nobody knows how they got the job.

Did you preface this entire podcast by saying it's Friday and I'm on vacation? This is, oh, like you're on vacation. I'm on vacation. Anyhow, so let's talk about a little, let's talk pop culture a little bit because you obviously are how deeply invested in pop Before we start my pop culture, can I pee? Oh, yeah, that's this is the first time ever that anybody stopped in the middle of the podcast I just like I did been housing this water. No, you've been really going for it

I don't want you to say I almost drank out of the picture. You should so there's actually have there was like a full picture I am out of control. I'll tell you why don't you. Back. He's back. It's too late. Sorry. Um, okay, hold on a second. Where was I? We were talking about scary movies. Scream. Come on. It's got, it's funny. Yeah. I saw a scream. Okay scream to Yes, scream three Yes, you guys see scream three screen three is pretty good actually. Yeah, I saw that before Why you didn't finish it out? I thought it was a scream five. No, okay. There's a series on MTV So so when you're watching these movies. Yeah after the movies over. Yeah, I

You feel good. No, I don't know. Yeah, if the movie's over, you know, do you feel good? No, I don't know. Yeah, if it was good. If it's not good, you feel bad. Like when you watch a Vanity Fair starring Reese Witherspoon, which I saw in the theater. You too.

Yeah. Had a good trailer. I could talk about, I know a lot about trailers. So, it's my thing. I have to watch the Vanity Fair trailer. Don't watch the trailer. Oh, you can watch the trailer, it's pretty good. And what's the? I have to watch the Vanity Fair trailer. Don't watch the trailer. Oh, you can watch the trailer. It's pretty good.

And what's the movie I need to watch? Malice. Malice. Cool. Gotta see Malice. Malice has a really famous trailer where Alec Baldwin does this monologue about how people, he's being accused of having a God complex. He's a surgeon.

Okay. He's an expert in cardiothoracic medicine or whatever. He's been born certified into, you know, 20 different. When someone goes into that chapel, they fall on their knees and they pray to God that their wife doesn't bleed to death, who do you think they're praying to? You ask me if I have a God complex? Let me tell you something. I am God. You told me and I've managed to get out of that.

You know, actually instead of me talking, can you just play the trailer a little bit of the trailer in the post and post? Can you put that in? Magnus? Okay, great. Are you kidding me? I've just learned that Algbal, according to Magnus, who, you know, sort of an unreliable source because he's Swedish claims it is racist. It is very racist. That Alex Baldwin records his podcast in the studio. What chair does he sit in? Mine or Rems? He sits in his chair. Wow. So one thing we should note, yeah, is that a really funny reality

of the two of us doing podcasts, a podcast together, is that neither of us really like, are super, super into podcasts, or listening to ourselves talk. No, do you not listen to a lot of podcasts? I don't. I don't either. I've listened to a few.

Does that mean what we're doing is raw? Is that is so raw? Because like we haven't been uh, you know, we're like tainted by the podcast. We're like, you know, oh, you went to Juilliard. Well, I taught myself to play guitar. Yeah, like like rock. We're like rock and rock. Yeah. In Washington Square Park. Yeah. Like 50 years from mine for the quarters. Yeah. For, for, you know, I figured I had to hold a tune It's I've singing for on the train. Yeah, you know, I learned to write a jail on the internet on the internet I learned to write on the internet. I was actually listening to I listened to a little action speaking of podcasts

I listen to a little I listen to a little bit of your long form podcast and Because I was like, oh, I don't want to repeat I was I don't repeat those questions. I'd add some beers Oh, had you well, we had you come in later, we would have been drinking. It's early in the day here. Wow. And I'll start drinking until two. Pretty close. So it's after two.

I just get the drinks out. But you were talking about, which I think is really interesting, and it is not the way it happens for a lot of people. Maybe now it's more and more common. But you're first stage, like for your writing was a big, big stage. Like essentially like, you know, you've been doing some writing

and then you, Grandland asked you to start some, Editha, there was a Grandland said, hey, will you come and start doing some stuff. And so, me, pretty early in like, before you'd had a name or anybody was like really thinking about your writing and correct me if I'm wrong. No, you're, I're mailing it so far. Like your audience was really big right off the bat.

Yeah, I mean it was weird because I think I did benefit from starting at a place that had just started. So you know, they're definitely like a big audience but there was, like while I was having to prove myself, the site was also having to prove itself. So it was kind of like this teamwork aspect. And I knew that, you know, every time I did something to prove myself, I was like actually helping the site. But it was really, but the point that I took away

is like what I thought was interesting was that like, you felt like the eyes of those people on you sounded like to me like acutely, that's a big, you know, you're writing for a big audience. And so everything, you're kind of like extra hard on yourself. Oh, yeah. And the judgment is like much more swift and severe. Like, I always felt that way, like learning to write on the internet.

It's like, you don't get a second chance. Like, everything has to be good. You have to try. Yeah, I mean, I'm still kind of wired like that where I don't think I have the luxury of just having like a bad week where I just like write a bunch of terrible stuff. Right.

That's good. But there are people that don't feel that way. There are people that are like, yeah, that one was a dud, but then I'll get him next time. But that's also because I, you know, while the free and open internet is beautiful because anyone can use it, you know, like when I was, when I was starting,

and even now, it's like I have a very unusual platform that I never that I'd have. And it's like, oh, I actually shouldn't take this for granted. And I should actually take it, like, even at my silliest, I like take it very seriously. Like I sometimes take the kind of carefree stuff more serious than anything because I like a world in which I can do that and then turn around and like anything because I like a world in which I can do that

and then turn around and like write a like a heavy piece on race because you know that's kind of how my days go. I can talk about I can have over the course of a day over the course of the week it's like not like I'm only you know made up of one type of interest it's like I bounce around all over the place in terms of what I'm interested in. So it kind of made sense for me to mirror that in my writing, mainly because I don't know another way. Right, but that's, to me, is such a profound, like, nothing feels, I mean, everything I've read

of yours, nothing feels throw away. Even the stuff that is like a confection in some way, you know, that is like a totally funny, not won't be, you know, is not like going to resonate like deeply with people and change the way they think, you know, if it's about like the Nicki Minaj bar mitzvah photo or whatever, but it's like feels like deeply like you give a fuck about it. Like you give a fuck and you give a fuck enough that you're going take it very seriously even if you're being very funny and kind of being very flippant sometimes. Yeah, I mean, I, this is just a,

I really, I really like, like communicating via writing. Like I, you know, I have a very antagonistic relationship with all the other media that exists because I think it just takes good writers away from writing. And it's like, you don't like that. I don't like that. I mean, I was actually talking to my mom yesterday and she was talking about how part of her life she kind

of felt like a, what's the expression? It's Jack of All Trades, Master of Nothing. I don't know. Master of Nothing. Something like that. Yeah. I think that's it. And I was thinking about that in terms of myself, about bouncing around.

And definitely feeling like I had proven myself as a trustworthy writer in lots of different fields without going all in on one thing, but kind of the thing that I do feel like I want to go all in on, it's just like, whatever it is, I'm still focused on the act of writing, or the art of writing.

I don't care, I don't really care all the time what it is, I'm actively just trying to write better. And write, be more captivating, like I think about my voice a lot and you know I feel like I've written like block posts or stories in like 60 different ways like it's just like so many ways to tell a story and I'm just like I keep trying to find like new weird ways to tell a story and I'm just like, I keep trying to find like new weird ways to tell a story. Well, I think actually that's like one of the big, I mean, I feel like we have such unexplored territory now, even now, with how you, like, what does it, like, what's the linear progression of a story? Like, how, or how is a story told? Is it visually, is it, is it purely like just a text wall?

Like, what are the, you know, is it, does it have elements that are not just the writing, and how do those play into it? I feel like there's a bunch, not just in the exploration of how you write styles of writing, and positions of writing, but also on the internet, I hate to keep coming back to it, but that Nicki Minaj thing,

you're actually breaking down a photo. It's in a really weird kind of new way, like I can't think of another story that's done it in quite that way. You know, the way it's sort of like really is, it's like CSI. Yeah. On that photo. But yeah, and it's that, when that happened, I was like, this is funny to me.

I bet this can be fine to other people too. It's funny to other people. Like what? So how, like, I mean, just me talking to myself, it's like, so how are we gonna do this? But it also expresses, sorry, that it like, it actually like perfectly captures

like what it's like to be a 13 year old boy. Like it perfectly captures like the awkwardness and the awfulness of like being 13 years old. I can, I can, I can jump back into teen boy faster than I could write about my current self. Like I just like, those feelings are so fresh and rock. I have this book idea, let's drop a book idea. You wanna share it on them?

Yeah, okay. No one's gonna, I don't care if someone tries to see it because they're just not gonna do it as well. That are the best ideas you like you feel so good about them Guess what I dare you try just try to try this idea books just called boners Girl I'm listening and got my attention like an anthology. Yeah, I was just like a lot Lots lots of people throughout the culture. Just telling just like amazing stories about boners. About boners.

Just like about young, young, young boners. Funny boners. Okay, only young boners, you can also be like senior boners. They can, you know, I'm more interested in early boner stories. Like first boner. Yeah, like there's like the sixth,

the sixth to seven year period where you have no control over when they happen. Yeah. That's like the, that's probably the real is like part of my life. I was like, who is the community who does a whole bit about dick control, a phone or control? There's somebody who does a whole thing about how like when you're a teenager and you're a kid. They're probably gonna assume me if I was to. No, no, no, I think you're

indifferent. And by the way, I think you're right. Actually, what's good about this now, like you basically have like trademarked it, you've copywritten it. You can say you're like here it is. I've put it out there. I own this idea. So if anybody tries like if I try to write boners, this is the only reason I came with podcasts. Just to get that out. I wanted to launch boners. Well, you know what? I like to think this podcast is responsible for a lot of boners. But I know that it's not. But I know that one not one boner has ever appeared

because of this podcast. Yeah, because you don't do the podcast. You don't do the podcast. You don't do podcast with enough 15 year old boys who just have boners all the time. How do you know? You don't know what kind of podcast I'm doing. Paul Ford. Paul Ford is up 15. Okay, so how are we doing on time, Agnes? We close?

What? We got hold on. Hey, talk about. No, we got to talk about. All right, okay, here we go. So here's the deal. I want to have one more thing. I'm pissed. No, no, no, we're fine. We're fine. We're going to do, we're going're gonna solve five minutes on something. Okay Here's the choice, right? You ready. We only have five minutes We can talk about Nope Ferguson and race in America Did I Ferguson and race in America or the VMAs? You know it is Friday. I'm on vacation. We're talking about the VMA. All right. Let's talk about the VMAs. You know what, it's Friday. I'm on vacation.

We're talking about the VMAs. All right, let's talk about the VMAs. I'm sorry. It's a race. Sorry, race in America. Yeah. The most important topic of our age. Yeah.

Or at least a very important one. What? Let's talk about the VMAs. You quit. You didn't quit Twitter. Tell me about your, what happened with the VMAs? It was, I think it was actually the lowest, one of like a top three lowest moment

in my internet writing life, because it was the moment I realized that everything that was happening was just happening so people would blog about it the next day. And I was like, wait, why am I in this field? Like I need to go to the Peace Corps. I need to, like, what am I doing with my life? It was just so dark and like things that I had,

like I had playfully predicted, like a month ago, I was like Taylor and Nicky are just after going like reunite at the VMAs. I was like, because everything is state. But I was just saying it because I was like in a salty mood. And then it happened. I was like, it supports my theory of rich people never really get that mad at other rich

people. Right. Because there's rich. But we're rich. It's like, oh, like, do I really be with you? I don't because I'm rich. You know? And it was like watching and we should learn something from the rich people. God. Yeah. Why beef? I love, I love

real beef. Doesn't exist anymore. No. Hulk Hulk Hogan and Gokker. That's beef. That's real. That's pretty real. Down with Hogan. You really you're what you're gonna win the case. No, I won't gonna lose. Okay. Oh, down. Oh, you you're saying down. I'm not down with like, like, no, that's a shocking turn of events. Yeah. No, no, I'm not pro-hogan down. You pro horribly racist, uh, piece of shit, Hulk Hogan. Yeah, surprising fromogan. Yeah. Surprising from you. Okay.

So anyhow, no, but it's true, but you're right about the VMAs. It was like watching a, like a damn, like musical, or like a, like a, it was just like a community theater. And I was like, what are we, why am I watching this? Well, why are you, that's a good question. Why is anybody watching it? I turned it off.

Went after the Miley thing, the Miley Nikki thing. I turned it off and then... Turn it back on. Turn it back on to watch Kanye. Okay, we should talk. Okay. Fuck, there's so much to talk about. We need like a whole nother podcast.

So the VMAs, but you told me you deleted Twitter off of your phone. Well, so it also happened the Sunday before I started my vacation. I see. And I was in this dark mood. It got so dark and just started playing cards. Like I turned out to be a regular card.

A VMA and like played cards. I was like, I gotta get away from it. What's your game, what game? Played a spit. How's that get played? I don't know spit. I don't know any card games. I don't know how to play.

We're not talking about that. Apparently we don't have time. I know how to play gin. It's the only thing I know how to play. Yeah don't have time for that. Apparently we don't have time. I know how to play gin It's the only thing I know how to play. Yeah, it's great game anyway. I Deleted so I deleted all of the apps off my phone that you that Apple won't let you delete all of them Like like I can't delete stocks off, but I deleted like all the apps. I wanted to leave all of them. You put stocks in a folder. Yeah. And where it is for everybody else. And so the past two weeks, I haven't been on Twitter.

I read down to Instagram because it's a beautiful app. But it has been amazing not being on Twitter and remembering that like what's happening, like doesn't really matter that much. Yeah, like life exists outside of that shit. I mean, the Twitter bubble is crazy. I mean, you think it's like, oh my, it's like built to manufacture this outrage

and everybody's like, I can't fucking believe this is unbelievable. And then you like move away from it. It's like, oh wait, everybody out in the world doesn't give a shit at all. I got a text from a number that I didn't have stored in the last text I'd got from them was from 2013. It was like Happy Birthday, bro. And I did respond. I'm not a jerk. And then the next text I got was last Wednesday, like three days into not being on Twitter. And all it said was a yo rim

Really needs you to weigh in on this curmud shit and I didn't know what that meant. Yeah for like Three more days when you stand on this curmud situation. Uh, so I don't understand Kermit's got a new girlfriend Denise I mean you're asking the wrong person because I didn't I didn't think what you're gonna take on on Kermit's to girlfriend I think it's like I think it's very like check your privilege, frog. Your male, sis, green male, green, heteronormative privilege. We're at a green at the door. What's green stand on the privilege?

Like, green's not, you don't need money. Call her money. Good point. Kermit's like's like I guess the thing like Kermit is not poor Not well he lives in it. He lives in a pond like a pond on a lily. Yeah, it's like La Croix So it's like a sparkling you don't think if people don't you don't they don't teach you that and and know that your little atheist school So he's in Florida because they're a base out of Florida. It's in Tampa. They live in Hogan all right So he's in Florida because they're a base out of Florida. It's in Tampa. They live in Hogan. All right.

He's the guesthouse. He's like, he's like, Kato Kaelin to Hogan's Hoja. I don't know what he looks. I was just saying about Kato Kaelin the other day. So he's fresh right now. I mean, actually with Katie, I think we're talking about Kato Kaelin.

We're like, what happened to Kato Kaelin? Let me max out on our Kati mentions. Do we? We talk about Kati Ford. It's enough. It's enough with her already. She didn't follow me on Twitter. Did she?

Yeah. Well, because she unfollowed men. And did she refollowed some men? And didn't make sure you followed me. But we're family. I know how it is. I thought we were family. I thought we were friends.

Wow. Well, Katie, it's time to make a decision. Can you make this up to rap in some way? Maybe she'll tell us during the Fast and Furious. All right, we have to rap. Unfortunately, there's so much more we need to talk about. Yeah, it's only really fucking bummed because I thought we had all the time in the world. How right, we have to wrap. Unfortunately, there's so much more we need to talk about. Yeah, that's why I'm like really fucking bummed because I thought we had all the time in the world.

How many times has Paul Ford been on? He's been on three times. All right, well then. No, will you come back, will you do it again? I'll definitely come back. Well, thank you for coming. I really appreciate this was a very awesome conversation. I don't remember what we talked about.

I don't know what we talked about, but my memory boaters, Magnus says we talked about boners, which he's very excited about. My memory though of this entire conversation is that it was really good. It was great, so thank you. That's our podcast for this week. I'll be back next week with more tomorrow. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best,

although I just received a phone call and I don't know if the very best is possible. you you