Tomorrow - Episode 37: Katie Notopolous Saves Tomorrow

Episode Date: January 17, 2016

After a great betrayal by former Tomorrow producer Magnus — who is from Sweden (and still produces the podcast) — Josh invites his internet-famous sister-in-law Katie Notopolous to the studio to try and make sense of his shattered life. Since she's one of the most irreverent and inventive BuzzFeed editors, there's no shortage of material. Some of the topics include a deep-dive on Katie's “50 Worst Things On The Internet In 2015” list, how she made friends during a stint on a grand jury, and why unfollowing men on Twitter is such an important statement. The pair also discuss the concept of “buttchugging,” the plot of Pacific Heights, and the death of Twitter. You'd be a fool to miss it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to Tomorrow. I'm your host Josh Wotspolski. Today on the podcast we discuss grand juries, Lou Bads, and Butt Chugging. But first, a word from our sponsors. This episode of Tomorrow with Josh Wotsupulski, that's me. It's brought to you by Wealthfront. Wealthfront is a low cost automated investment service that makes it easy to invest your money the right way, as opposed to how you've been doing it, which is definitely wrong.

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My former producer, Magnus Hendricks, and who's from Sweden, was delighted with his experience. He spent a lot of money from what I understand on Macwellen. All the products are naturally antimicrobial, which means they eliminate odor, which is good, because let's be honest, you stink. And they want you to be comfortable, so if you don't like your first pair, you can keep them,

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My guest today is a very special lady, a very special friend, basically a family member, uh, and, uh, a genius on several levels, some of which I prove up and some of which I, I disapprove of. My guest today is Katie Nautopoulos, from Buzzfeed and host of Buzzfeed's Internet Explorer. Podcast. Thank you, Joshua, having me back again. Thank you for being here. I'm very proud to be in the two-timers club now.

You are in the two-timers club. You've two-time tomorrow, and also I should say that before we get into this conversation, I want to say that there are probably a lot of people who are confused because I said that I was gonna have an exit interview with Magnus on this episode of the podcast, but I tried to interview Magnus. I told you a little bit about that.

I tried to interview Magnus, but he was so bad on the mic that we couldn't use it, we couldn't use any of it. I mean, that's so surprising to me because Magnus is one of the funniest. He's a funny, interesting guy, right? Interesting people that I know. And I was talking to him a little bit before, or last week, and he was talking about,

he's like, oh, do you think you can come in? Like, because I don't think, I don't think I can talk for a full episode. Except like, you know, in his Magnus voice. Yeah, well, what are you talking about? Like, you're planning to think it's a talk about. He's like, uh, the, the, the, the, the nothing interesting about me. I had the same conversation.

It was going through, I was, I was, I was nothing interesting. No, he had to say the same conversation with him. And I was like, we could talk about black metal. We could talk about growing up in Vesteros. We could talk about this and that. And all these things that are just like things that off top my head without even really working. Yeah.

Yeah. And he had, it turned out to, it turned out, he just chimed in because he's actually in the studio, because we have not found his replacement. And so he's actually producing this still. But he is gone. And he is definitely dead to me after this podcast attempt that we made. But anyhow, it turns out that he, if you, like,

if you ever want Magnus to shut up, if he's talking to you, and you want it to stop, just put a microphone in front of him. Because he has to be connected because he may be the most interesting guy in the world to you. If you got the most, I've had, I've spent hours and hours talking to Magnus in my private life. But if you put that microphone that you're sitting in front of right behind, rather, yeah, if you slid that in front when in his most interesting moment, he would just, rather. Yeah. If you slid that in front when in his most interesting moment, he would just shut down. Interesting.

He psychologically shuts down. You know, it was unbelievable actually. It's sort of like, it should be studied. Yeah. Well, I think that, you know, speaking in front of a microphone, just like public speaking sort of is something that like, you know, no one's like natural at, like you kind of have to learn how to do it a little bit.

I mean, some people might be a little bit more natural on the other side. I wouldn't know, Katie. I mean, the'm like I'm in front of me. I was like boom. Really? I was just off to the races. I feel like I feel I don't know if that's true or not. I feel like I'm better now But only because I do it every week. Yeah practice makes perfect. Yeah, that's for sure But some people are uncomfortable. I think that's true. Yeah, like Alex Garland who we had in here I think he didn't love he doesn't love doing interviews. But he's a smart, interesting guy. So eventually you just end up having Unlik Magnus, who's obviously a dope. Who has nothing to say.

A head full rocks. A head full Swedish rocks. Anyway, right. So we're not here to talk about Magnus though. To the fans, to the Henriksen fans, I am sorry that you are not going to get to hear his Dullsit tones vibrating tones vibrating your eardrums. Dullset Swedish tones. So actually, but now we should talk about, do we talk about in the last part how you and

Magnus know each other? We did, we did. We did. That's a refresher for anyone who isn't keeping notes on everything that happens every episode. The minority of the audience, the people who aren't keeping notes, you'll just want to hear this, the 2-3% maybe of the audience. For anyone who doesn't have somewhere in their home a basement with a wall, with a picture

of Josh in the middle and a bunch of red strings going out to all of his podcast guests. I think you have candles too. Well that too. Like an altar. I was imagining more the like red string board homeland yeah yeah but have you noticed how the red string board isn't like every show now what I don't understand like do you attach the string to like a thumbtack I think I do the tie the string I'm imagining it's done with tax so make sure to start up that's like it's like an easy to attack string for thumbtacks where you can just, it just hooks on the thumbtack. Yeah. And you sell them

in packs of like a hundred at a premium. For people who are putting together profiles of terrorists or serial killers. But I feel like the, the red string board, like, was a movie trope that like kind of was around in like the 80s, and then you didn't see it for a while. And now it's like on any show that involves any sort of mystery. And it's either indicates, like in Downton Abbey that one episode that goes to the cast cottage, and he's got a self-academy or his stories. Well, it's, it's a helpful like movie trick, because it's either like, if it's kind of confusing when you're trying to show,

like, here's how the mafia is connected. Like, here's an easy way to explain it to the audience by showing here's the guy at the top and then the people down. So that's one. I'm actually, that's weird because when you said that, I just thought like, oh, in David Cruz, we'll be explaining it to you.

Right, right. I don't know why David Cruz hasn't been in anything and like, I guess he's in a CSI, isn't he? Yeah, but not anymore. I don't know what I'm saying. Is he still on the CSI? I don't, I don't watch CSI. isn't he? Yeah, but not in the car. I don't think. Is he still on the CSI, my name? I don't want CSI. Yeah.

Okay. Anyways. It's too graphic for me. But so for people who don't have the red string board of Josh Paul Skies, podcast guests. Wait, what? Oh, yeah, right. If you need the background, we're talking about. How I know Magnus.

How I know Magnus. On the string board, Magnus, Katie Katie and Magdice would be connected. I am best friends with Magdice's wife. We went to college together. We were roommates for a long time. Amy is her name. She's an education. Yes.

She's a speech pathologist who specializes in working with children with autism in the New York City public schools. And weird, a co-inky dungeon. It's a much better person than you or me. Oh, yeah, no, no, no. She's a good person. She's a good person. She's a good person.

We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not.

We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not.

We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. We're not. is also a speech pathologist. So they have something to talk about when they want to each other. It's a weird job. It's not like everybody's, that's a very common thing. No, no, it's not common thing. I'm surrounded by speech pathologists. And your aunt, that's Amy's daughter, is actually like in their field, considered this really like eminent voice. She's famished.

She's well regarded and known in the field. And I have Francis. Yeah, and she and Amy have, you know, met a bunch of times and they always have something about yeah yeah yeah like outside of family functions. I mean no. I mean not usually like you were angry. This was a great thing to the tomorrow listener. Oh, this is the best stuff ever. I'm just some minutia about my family. Excuse me sorry I've got a bit of a cold I should say. Oh dear, okay.

The Katie brought me coffee, which is very nice of her. Anyhow, so Amy has married to Magnus, but Magnus, you guys were roommates. Yeah, well, so when Amy and I were living together and when she and Magnus started dating, he was living in Sweden, and then he eventually moved here and he moved in with us and we're all living together for a while. Yeah, we're actually we're getting the podcast with Magnus that we never had. Yeah, through vicariously through you. All right, so let's actually just jump off of that for a second. I bought a something you told me just before we started recording

which is actually involving Amy. Yeah, Magnus read a text to Katie and asked about a person. I'm not gonna name the person but said does Amy just Katie know this person? Amy was asking. And Katie said that she knew this person, she'd met the person in jury duty. Yeah. And become good friends with her. Which is like, I've never heard of anybody doing that. Is that common?

Have you ever met another person who's met someone in jury duty? Uh, no. But I will say it was sort of slightly extenduating circumstances. So a couple of years ago, I'm trying to think of exactly when this would have been- Can you talk about the case? Yeah, so this was probably like 2010, maybe 2009. I got called for grand jury. So grand jury duty is unique because only four states in the US do this, where before

you, if you commit a crime in New York State, before you go to a real trial, like you get arrested, and then they have, I think, 72 hours to put you in front of a grand jury and bring back an indictment. And the indictment is just a decision on whether or not you're going to go to a real trial or not. So a lot of, most states just skip that step and you get arrested and then they've just sent you to a real trial. And you went to the real trial, interesting.

So in, I mean, in other states, they sell grand juries. Did you know about this before you served on a grand jury? Or did you, or before you were injured? Duty for that? I did, because I had one friend in college who ended up doing grand jury duty. I remember him describing it. What's so weird about it is that you're committed for a certain amount of time. There's also a kind of grand jury where you can be doing just one investigation.

This is typically for something big, like federal corruption. There's a lot of that. Yeah, and spits are brain spits are down. Right, right, right. Something like that. But for the most part, it's like you're do, you sit there for typically it's two weeks, slightly less common four weeks or even like 16 weeks.

As a juror. Yes. Okay. And 16 weeks. Like a really long time. Maybe 12 weeks. That's crazy. I had a coworker who got called in for the 12 weeks. And with that, you usually do it only like part time schedule. So maybe like you do it until 2 p.m.

or you only do it like four days a week or something. That's odd. So for the two-week version, which is the sort of most common thing that calls for you. That's what I had. Yeah. You go in five days, nine to five, and they just blast through cases. So you probably see 50 different cases. So people come in, so it's all sorts of criminal cases. Yes. And people come in and they're like, this guy robbed somebody we have in a trial or not. And then somebody says, we want a trial or they're like, we want to plead guilty. They can you plead guilty during the grand jury and then you just go into a different process? Or is it not even that level? No, because it's not even...

I should know more about this. It's, yeah, it's not even about like pleading guilty. It's just about you're determining what charges they will go on for a real time. No, I think this is definitely going to be a trial. Not necessarily. So they can be dismissed. It can be dismissed.

So they can, you can choose not to indict someone and set them free. They go free. Yeah. However, there's like a saying in the world of law, which is that like you should be able to indict a ham sandwich, which means that like in general like 90% of the cases that come before you're going to say indict. Because what typically happens is you have very, very little

information about it. So usually the defendant is not present. Like it was only maybe two or three out of the 50 cases with the defendant actually there. Usually the only witness or something is like the police officer who arrested them. So you spend two weeks on the grand jury and they just bring case after case after case. And you have to make a ruling as a jury on this.

Yeah. So like a typical case would be there's a lot of like how many in a day? Um, it depends like, you know, maybe five, but often it wouldn't be the full case. So it might be like they show you they bring in one witness from one case and then they bring in, you know, be the police officer who says, I arrested this person cause I saw them holding a bag of cocaine. And- Was that one of your cases?

Yeah, there's a lot of, it's also only thousands. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it's a lot of drug crime, a lot of, and this is in Brooklyn, it's a lot of like kind of petty theft like domestic abuse, domestic disturbances. We didn't know. Pacific Heights, any Pacific Heights style stuff where they have somebody has a tenant and they won't move out and they start sort of like stalking the family and then they

increased like a level of terror on the family until there's like a showdown where somebody dies in a pool. Um, actually, I don't know if anybody dies in a pool in Pacific Heights. Do you know what movie I'm talking about? I thought, are you talking about the one where Samuel Jackson is the bad neighbor? No, same idea though. Okay. That's it.

It has a name. It's like sunset park. The neighbor or something. No, I think it's called like sunset park or. Okay. Magist, can you find out what the movie is the same on Jackson? He's like a cop. Yeah, yeah.

And he goes next to like, it's like a race thing. He's like a cop. Yeah, yeah. And he goes next to like, and it's like a race thing. He's like a white couple. There's next to him and he like hates him. It's a Patrick. What's the actress? Oh, yeah, that's not Patrick. Oh, yeah, that's not Patrick. Don't say no.

Anyhow, that's, oh, oh, yes, the guy who looks like. He's in Fargo. He looks like another actor. Yes, a little bit actor. Yeah, Patrick Wilson is his name. That's right. He's also in the watchman movie. Yeah, yeah.

He plays the night owl. Yeah. Yeah, that Wilson is his name. He's also in the watchman movie. Yeah, he plays the night owl. Yeah, his character at any rate Patrick Wilson looks like another actor who I can't think of right now. I always get them confused. Mm-hmm. Anyhow Pacific Heights, I think Michael Keaton, isn't it? I'm trying to remember this one. I don't want to say it's set in San Francisco. I think Pacific Heights is an area of San Francisco. Okay And it's like I think Michael Keaton might be the bad guy, or he's the husband of the woman. It's like the same premise. It's like a couple, the civil jacks

want to live separately. But if Pacific Heights, he's like a tenant, they have a house, like a duplex or something. Okay. And he moves in and then they can't evict him and he becomes, he gets crazy. Yeah. And he starts stalking them and doing all kinds of messed up stuff.

And then I think there was a showdown. Mm-hmm. And anyway, not related. Did you get any specific Height Style cases? Um, there was a case about a living situation, uh, similar to that. Um, it was a rape case. Uh, those are shot in the dark bottle.

I had no idea that you would actually say that you'd have. Sort of. I mean, like I said, most of the cases were either drug or some sort of theft or maybe like assault or something like that. There was a couple really like weirdly memorable ones. One where it was like someone shot someone. But the other one, and this is something that like this case has sort of haunted me for a long time. It was, um, Are you allowed to talk about this? Yeah, I mean,

Exactly. I don't know, That was a good question. Come arrest me. That was a question in, Yeah. I wasn't allowed to talk about it at the time. Sure.

But now these people are put away or you let them go or whatever. Okay, so tell me about this case, it's haunted, yeah. So, uh, it was a rape case and it was this woman and they bring her in and she's an African-American woman, maybe in her 30s, maybe her 20s. And she was living with this guy and they had an arrangement where she was living with him rent-free in exchange for occasionally having sex with him. And one day she was getting ready to go, it was like Sunday morning, she was getting ready

to go to church and he came in, he was like, let's have some sex. And she was like, no, I don't want to right now. And he forced himself on. Wow. That's a crazy situation. Yeah. That kind of combines a bunch of things that are really nuts. Right.

And so, and then they have the guy come in. And it was sort of this like shocker because the guy came in and he was this old guy. Like way older than her. Like he seemed like he was in his 50s or 60s. Kind of portly guy. Really? Yeah. And it was just like one of these things where like this was not the guy

that we were expecting to be at all. Is that a arrangement legal? Or is that considered prostitution? In a court, would anybody like, is that how do you look at something like that? I mean, you know, I don't think anyone would get arrested for prostitution on that alone. Right. It's just like a really weird relationship. Yeah.

And so, you know, and he sort of denied it. He said that they were in a consensual relationship and they were friends and that that morning, they just had a little lover's quarrel and it was definitely not rape or anything. And I don't know, man, I feel like, but she pressed charges. Yeah, she pressed charges. Yeah, she pressed charges and she, I mean, she's the fence doesn't really hold up if like you go to the trouble of pressing charges. It's pretty right. It seems like it's more trouble that's worth for everybody if it was like just a little spat. Right. So this was one of the few cases

that the jury ended up dismissing outright. Oh, really? And it was just, you know, it was, was that you have to be unanimous or just majority, it's just majority was for an indictment. And it was, it was a pretty divisive one. And it was, it left me feeling really bummed out because it was, you know, it was this a lot of people arguing, well, she put herself in this bad position. She didn't have the right to say, no, if you want to have sex with her because she, you know, she'd already agreed to this, you know, living rangement.

And it just sort of, you know, and there was, it had come up that she had kids who didn't live with her, like they were in foster care or something. And people were like, well, you know, why don't her kids live with her? Is there something wrong with her? Like she's, she's bad news. And it was just, it was like, this was exactly what goes on in the sort of jury room when people are voting to dismiss rape cases. It was really disheartening to see it's, it's interesting. It's interesting to hear you describe that because I always, I feel like we're in a real bubble. I mean, everybody you know, and everybody I know, and frankly, a lot of people, you know, the New York lifestyle,

or what would it take Cruz call it, New York lifestyle? I feel like that, yeah. Yeah. New York values, you know, people with New York values. You know, we are in kind of this, like, we think like everybody thinks the way I do. Like everybody has the same opinion. Or we would see this situation the same way.

And then you encounter, obviously, that happens on the internet constantly. This actually I could segue into something I want to talk about, but, yeah. You know, it's weird then you encounter, obviously this happens on the internet constantly. This actually gets segway into what someone I want to talk about. But it's weird when you encounter it in real life, and you're like somebody thinks of the exact opposite of what you think, or it doesn't see a situation that seems so clear to you. I mean, I guess this is like the,

obviously the cause of all the great conflicts. But I remember meeting somebody who was just like Christian, right wing, conservative, and like talking to that person, going like, wow, everything in the world that I see one way, you see the opposite way. And so in all of these situations where we would have to make a decision on something, we would have completely different.

It's just odd to me. I feel like everything's so obvious. Yeah. I guess that's the problem with people's opinions. Yeah. You think your opinion is obvious. Like I was like making fun of the Republican candidates. I was like, I actually feel bad for Republican voters

because there's like, there's like really not like one. Maybe John Kasich, I don't know maybe. There's really not one guy who seems normal. And then somebody was like, why do you feel sorry for us? Because we have such great candidates. You've got like a socialist and a liar. And I was like, wow, your reality is so crazy. Like you're like, yeah, Marco Rubio,

that guy seems pretty tight, or Trump, he can be president, anyhow. But I want to talk about something. Well anyways, I became friends with. I forgot there was a whole other story that was not related to this. So because it was this two week long stint, there was three other women on this jury.

I mean, the interesting thing is, if you go do, have you ever done jury duty? I have gone, I was dismissed. Okay. They said that they said, they said I had a face to look by. I didn't know what that meant, but they dismissed me when I went home. Well, grand jerry's also a weird one

because like, you cannot get dismissed from grand jury. Like, they're like, you can defer it, but you're not getting dismissed. Like, I actually, but grand jerry's also a weird one because like you cannot get dismissed from grand jerry like they're like you can defer it But you you're not getting dismissed like I actually but grand jerry sounds interesting to me. Was it boring? Or was it interesting? No, it was fascinating by the second week. It's brutally depressing really it starts off super fascinating because you're like wow like I'm getting to learn so much about how the criminal justice system works Like these cases are kind of interesting and then it it's just, I mean, the fact is crime is really depressing. Yeah, I think most crime is depressing.

I think it's true. You know, most of it is people in bad circumstances doing like, you know, it's like teenagers ripping off an iPod from another teenager or something like that. Did that case have got? Yeah, yeah, there's a bunch of cases. Is it an iPod?

Yeah, I think I'll go to your phone or something. Or like, you know, there's a bunch of cases that. Is it an iPod? Yeah, I think I'll get a phone or something. Or like, you know, there's a couple. There's an iPod, it seems to look at data. Well, I mean, this was five years ago or something. Okay, okay. You know, it's a bottom. It's a bottom. Crime is obviously very depressing.

Yeah. People are driven to crime by, you know, it's bad, not good things that drive people to crime. So like, hey, you know, be hilarious. If we rob somebody, most people aren't like, that would be a good time. Yeah. They're like, I need money.

Yeah. You know, and then they're robbing somebody. Yeah. That's why I've been done all my robins. Robins? Robins, is that what you call robberies? Robberies, yeah. Okay, so anyhow, so you became friends with this woman?

Yeah, there was like a couple other, I mean, so jury-dirty is like, it is a real slice of Brooklyn. Like if you're doing it, it is like, it's one of everything. You know, it's like, there- That's what I get on my hot dogs in Brooklyn. Yeah, you know, there's like the, you know, the plumber from Bay Ridge. There's like the 18 year old black girl from, you know, wherever there's like, you know,

a weird old white lady like- The whole Brooklyn. It's the whole Brooklyn, and there's three other sort of white girls in their 20s or 30s You know around my semi-age and we ended up sort of hanging together, you know because you know we're into white power and stuff like that Because you hate people of other races. Yeah, I get it sure And we end up like having fun. Yeah, I get it You are white there white next next to you, you know your friends.

Yeah, exactly. But I mean, doing Jury-Duty in this kind of thing is almost kind of like, you know, it's like summer camp or something where it's like, you know, repeated, it's just like. Right, because if you have to go, because a lot of people do like Jury-Duty where they're like, oh, I was on a robbery case

or whatever, it was like a three day trial or something like it resolved really quickly. Like I've never met, I know maybe one or two people have actually served like a long jury duty with like a real crime that was very serious. But it seems like everybody usually goes in for a, oh, there was a fender bend there, you know, whatever. This is like two weeks.

Yeah. So you're gonna hang out with, you're gonna get to know people. Yeah, and there's kind of a lot of downtime between, because of doing like so many different cases, there's a lot of like, break. Well, these full days, these weren't part-time days. No, they're full days. So, so you go in at what time?

Nine, it's like nine to five. Nine to five, no, you get paid for this. No, no. You do like some kind of, you get some kind of like nominal. So I was lucky enough at the time that I was at a job that had paid jury duty leave. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I think they gave you up to two weeks. If you got a call for jury duty, they weren't

going to like not pay it. You don't think about that. I think it varies job to job. I was at a big company. I was at Warner Brothers to part time Warner. And they had like, you know, I got a lot of great, a lot of great to a pair of finale when you were Warner Brothers. I get a Batman, Batman bust. I got a lot of great, I got a lot of great to paraphernalia when you were a Warner Brothers. I got a Batman bus, I have in my office, I got some DVDs, it's like stuff they were throwing out, I think. Yeah, because I was working in the merchandise stuff.

And so, we don't need these Batman bus anymore. Yeah, I mean, what would end up happening? It's like we would have like one thing left at the warehouse and they'd be like, this isn't worth like keeping in stock because like let's just get off the site. Right. And then they'd be like, eh, let's, you know, let's just eliminate, liquidate this whatever. Cool. Very cool. Hey, they're lost as my game. Yeah. Or maybe someone bought it, but they

returned it, but the package was ripped, you know, something like that. Like, you get my refund, but you can't get a box with that Batman bus now that I think of it. Really? I'm just saying that the box, that one was I think yet. Not giving I think of it. I was just making it. I can't make it in the box. That one was I think. Yeah. I was just made to learn you couldn't put it on. It's just for show. Yeah. It's like just when you just want to have Batman's head with no face in it.

Just the mask. Yeah. You can't wear it. You can't wear it. You can't wear it. The cow. That's right. The cow.

The back cow. Yeah. So you made friends. I became friendly with these. Cowell be the name. That's right, the cow, the back cow. Yeah, the back cow. Anyhow, so you any made friends a jury do? I became friendly with these four other girls. Yeah. Three other girls from jury duty. And one of the assistant DA, so we had a bunch of different assistant DAs would come in and present the cases. And one of them never presented a case,

but he was just kind of like, he would come in and help give us instructions about what we were supposed to do and like, kind of basically. Kind of come in and help give us instructions about what we were supposed to do and like kind of basically, kind of a young guy looked a little bit like Patrick Wilson. He was incredibly good looking. Really? So, I mean, one thing I learned is almost all the assistant DAs were incredibly good looking.

Like, I thought it was a joke on Law and Order that like they always had the most like hot lawyers. I like, I was like, this is unrealistic. Benjamin Bratt was the lawyer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But turns out like, I is all humanistic. It's like Benjam and Brad was the lawyer. But turns out, like, I think that it's a kind of like entry level job for recent law grads. For hot guys.

Yeah, to be doing like, you know, these quicky indictments for the state, like prosecution. It's not like a full prosecution. You're just doing these things. And like, a lot of them were like young and great looking. They're like in their little suits or world drafts. But so, well, the one guy was very charming, very hot.

And he would like come and like, sometimes sit and have lunch with us. That's one of those things, right? This is a pickup for him, right? Oh yeah, and after, you know, and he was just, you know, friendly and nice during the trial. But as soon as it ended, we were gonna go all go out for drinks.

And he was like, hey, let me join up with you. And so he came and had drinks with us. Wow. And that was actually fascinating because since our stint was over, he kind of gave us some of the like gossip that we didn't have. Because a lot of times you're making these assignments. Like, oh, you know the guy let off? Definitely guilty.

No, he definitely said that at some point. Yeah, like there was one guy who we let off. And I fought really hard to get him let off. Oh. And he was like, oh yeah, that guy was guilty as hell. Oh man, don't put Dopa Katie on your jury. Yeah, I think what ends up happening is like there's certain evidence they can't show you or stuff like that. It's very frustrating doing these because you, you're only, you know, you're only getting half a story. Sure. Um, and uh, we've seen the good wife. Yeah. You know how it goes down. Yeah, exactly. But anyways, he ended up, he ended up fucking one of the girls. Whoa.

Did not see that coming. I mean, what a, what a beautiful way. Oh, yeah. And did they date or was it just a one night? No, I think it was, I don't think it was last time. On that shocking reveal at the end of the jury, do you say, I'm going to, we're going to take a break. I'm going to, we're going to do a quick ad and then we'll be back with more Katie. We're gonna talk about the internet with Katie Natopoulos in a second. What's your name?

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I was a memory and it was something called Lakeview. Lakeview Terrace is the game. I want to say Lakeview Drive, but that's the street in Chicago. I don't know. That's like the maybe. Let's put in the valley. Lakeview Terrace in the valley in Pacific Heights

is where, is it in San Francisco somewhere? At any rate, very similar names. They're just like places. That's the film with Samuel Jackson when he terrorizes the young couple next door. We're back with Katie Nautopolis. And I want to talk about you wrote the only end of year list that I read on the internet.

Thank you Josh. Because I think end of year list are bullshit. I read your, it was the, I think it was the 20 worst things on the internet. Oh, no, no, no. 15 words. 50.

50 or 16. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When it comes to a full year, you got it. You got to go bigger, go home. So I was reading it and I have to say there were some awful things. I mean, like it's weird to me because here's the thing. Okay, actually I want to go back a little bit.

Okay. When we go back to like, and we talked about this in the last podcast, like your history on the internet a little bit, I think we talked about, sorry, I missed your party back a little bit. When we go back to, and we talked about this in the last podcast, your history on the internet a little bit. I think we talked about, sorry, I missed your party and some of that stuff. But if you go back to Katie on the internet, she is like, I mean, in many ways, before I knew Katie, I knew her work on the,

well, I knew you before I knew the work, but I felt like I knew you through the work more than I knew you as a person. Okay. That's frightening, because I think that I'm like a pretty normal person, but it is. You're not normal on the internet. But to me, it's like a more pure form of internet than we see most of the time now. What you were doing, sorry, Mr. Party, it felt very organic and natural to the internet, where it's like finding things

and like marrying them to like a different frame of thinking. It's like a very internet way of confronting what's out in the world. That's like the memes are like basically, either found things or created things that are just like putting this weird frame on them. But your own frame on them, rather. But so, you went to Buzzfeed, and early on,

Buzzfeed was a lot crazier than it is now. Yeah. Early on Buzzfeed was way more crazy. There was way more like user generated stuff. I mean, I know there's still stuff like that. I don't see as much of it, I guess. And it just was like a much raw, weirder, it wasn't as well defined, I feel like.

And Buzzfeed news didn't exist and all this other stuff. Yeah. So you't as well defined, I feel like. And BuzzFeed news didn't exist and all this other stuff. Yeah, yeah. So you went to BuzzFeed, I feel like right around the time when everybody knew you for doing these really weird, sometimes like kind of fucked up things on the internet. Yeah. They were like really, somewhere like really fucked up, like in a good, funny way, but you know, we're disturbing.

You used to do something on Twitter that I thought was great, where you would find people, and now this is very common, but I feel like you pioneered this thing, where you would find people saying horrible things, and you would retweet them. It like you'd find a phrase that people were saying, right, and like, you would like find people,

all these people saying like something really racist or something really stupid or like misusing a word or whatever, like you know, you might find people saying all or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, you might find people saying, all intensive purposes. Right. And so they're all intensive purposes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I don't know if you ever did that, but that's an example. I never did that specifically, but yeah, sort of like that. So now you do like, you do like on BuzzFeed, like you do a lot of like mature adult content. I don't mean the Duffer adults. I mean, you do like stuff like, it's like a story about something or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. But then every once in a while, content, I don't mean to defer adults, I mean, you do like stuff like it's like a story about something or whatever. Yeah. But then everyone's in a while, like you do like this list, which to me is like an old Katie list. Well, I do this. I do the end of the year list every year. So I think this is the fourth one we've done. I also do it with three other people. So I do it with Ryan Bradwick, who is my co-host on the Internet Explorer podcast, Kate's Holderness, who is also a long-time Buzzfeed employee, and another guy Josh Fieldsstad, who's another long-time Buzzfeed employee.

Who's the ringleader? Are you not the ringleader? We all work on it. And we actually, you know, for this, because it's for people, it's kind of difficult to, you know, do one list for a group of people, but we set up a chat room and separate, separate Slack room, yeah, separate Slack room and we're all, you know, dropping links. So you must see some terrible shit. Oh yeah. I mean, you must really see some nasty stuff during that. So we also, if, if you are interested, and you're like, I can't wait until next December to see terrible things on the internet. I can't.

The four of us run a Tumblr year round called We're Things on theInternet.tumblr.com. I didn't know that. And. How did I know that? I don't know. I don't know. The problem is, I can't advertise it that much

like because it's extremely NSFW. Like really bad. We're starting to stop in the list. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that goes on that tumbler that we have determined is too bad for. Too hot for TV. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's we have certain guidelines. What's it called worst things on the internet? Worst things on the internet. Just writing this down right now.

Okay, things go on. You know, I mean, well, the the worst things on the internet list for Buzzfeed, we we approach this very, you know, with a, well, the the worst things on the internet list for BuzzFeed, we, we, we approach this very, you know, with a lot of thought behind it. So, you know, it's, it can't just be gross, you know, because there's plenty of gross stuff. Gotta go deeper, you know, you know, maybe it's a mix of some purely gross stuff and also some stuff that's like cringy like in barely, it's not gross, but it makes you like, ooh, cring. And there's some stuff that I thought was like in poor taste, like politically or like racist stuff.

I feel like you had some racist stuff in there, maybe. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that we avoid doing stuff that's like overtly racist just because it's like that to me that doesn't necessarily qualify as being of the internet. Right. Wasn't there, I feel like there was something that was like a little more political on the list this year?

Um, I mean, maybe. I think that one of the things that, you know, to me feels like it fits very well into this category and is slightly, it has a racial problematic element to it. There was a music video of this young sort of 12-year-old boy, and it's this high production value music video, kind of like Rebecca Black Friday. Like, it seems like someone's doing this kid video kind of thing. Yeah.

But he's singing as a sort of like 50s swing style of version of Fettywap's trap queen. Oh, man. I did not see that. I mean, I saw how either, is that on the list? That is on the list. I must have not watched the video. Some of those, I just highly recommend to anyone

to please watch this video. OK. But it's this sort of like chubby little blonde kid singing this. And he's like wearing like a suit and sort of like singing it like kind of like Michael Bubley like this song is trap queen right yeah yeah which is about making and selling drugs right yeah and there's just an element where you just you you just it's so cringe yeah that sounds terrible I just want to say this kid like who thought this was a good idea I must must have seen it, but like,

just read the description or whatever and then watch the video. Yeah, that's awesome. That really sounds bad. But one of the things that stood out to me is that on the list, there's a lot of like, for lack of adventure, I'm sick stuff on the list. Oh, yeah.

There's like, I don't know, there's like some furry stuff on there. There's like some other, and I wouldn't call it furry, but it's like on a, in a similar vein as furries. It's like in the realm of like role-playing. There's like, I think there's some horse stuff. Yeah, furries aren't bad in and of themselves, but occasionally furries do stuff that is ridiculous. They do bad things. Yeah, so like, this is my question. Like, how do you

draw the line between, well, there's a couple of things. First is like, do you ever worry that you're laughing at people and not with them? I mean, they're probably not a lot of people probably aren't laughing. I'm curious to hear if you hear from people that you've put on lists like that. And then the second piece, I'll let you answer that one first, and I'll get to the second question. Do you ever hear, like, do people like write you and they're like how how could you do this to me? I'm trying to sink back in years past if that has come up. I believe short answer is no It's really possible. Definitely not this year. No way what? I mean, you know

There's look we're not just anyone smack it up a list of 50 gross crap, you know. This is, there's a reason that we're fresh here. We are, we are, you know, these things are all vetted whether or not, you know, we feel that these are okay to post. We make sure that we're finding the most original source links that they're, you know, available from a place like the process. Yeah, we always make sure that they're actually from the date range. There was a couple heart-breaking misses that came in like late December. We had to not

allow them. But um, does I assume went on worse things on the internet.com? Worst things on the internet dot com. Yeah. Yeah. She get the real domain. You can probably get it. I mean, I'm not sure this is a pursuit I want to invest money into. Really? Well, you've certainly invested time. I mean, I will say that on the Tumblr, it is a lot more focused on genitalia. Oh, really? Because there were some genitalia stuff in your list. I mean, one thing that we've learned from doing this

is a somewhat, I mean, in the past four years, we've been doing this Buzzfeed has changed its technology a little bit. And one of the big advantages is we now have an option to click to reveal an NSFW video or image. They probably started working on that when you got your phone. They're like, okay, we need a technology

to have a technological way of preventing people from seeing this. And. So it used to just be that like, okay, well, we either have to mark this NSFW and just let people Risket or like let's do it and honestly, I think the collector reveals are a lot of fun because you read the description of what it's gonna be Right and sometimes you're like I I Understand in theory what this is and then you see the picture and it's it still grosses you right right

I think I had a couple of those while reading a list. Yeah. Where I felt pretty unhappy. The three things that turned out. Our sort of data scientists have gone and looked at posts. And what ends up happening is that, you know, I think conventional wisdom is that, oh, people don't want to look at gross stuff, especially at work, or they won't share gross stuff. Sure. Is that the conventional wisdom is that, oh, people don't wanna look at gross stuff, especially at work or they won't share gross stuff.

Sure. Is that the conventional wisdom? Yeah, I think so. Cause I feel like the internet is built on people sharing. Sort of, but I think that like, inappropriate things. Yeah, but it's also like, well, you know, people, people don't wanna seem like they're.

I know, CFW exists for a reason. Right. But we found that on this sort of year end list, the click through rate, the click-through rate of the click-through reveals is like some of the highest. For the roof. Yeah. Interesting. The people just like... What a cool metric to have. Everyone has to click and find out what they're doing. That's real. That's real engagement right there. Yeah. It's monetizable engagement. Can you monetize other ads on that story? No, there's not much. Like put the no ad tag or whatever on there.

Actually, we do. We have, there is also a tag that is like, for things that are quote unquote sensitive, you can have it so that no ads run on the side bar next to it. I think that's smart. Cause I think that also it's like, because like chlorox would be pretty bummed if it was like,

right. Although chlorox is somewhere, it's like, you know, sort of like tied, be great because there's undoubtedly some things that are really dirty in that. That to me is a custom ad opportunity, right? Yeah. That should be sold to like tied.

Yeah. Or like, Sharman. Yeah, it's like, get clean after after you're done with this post, you're gonna want to feel especially clean. Yeah. Sharman, Sharman is the perfect. Yeah, Sharman likes to go right up to the line. I think the other ones were always like,

the bear kind of like wiggling its butt. And you're like, you're talking about feces there, buddy. Yeah, well, we've got much more comfortable in this country, at least with a discussion, a discussion of about pooping. Do you think we have? Oh, yeah, I mean, you've got the commercial with the British girl, with the, with the moist wipes

or whatever, who's like harassing people outside of a bathroom. You have you not seen this? It might be Charmin Magnus, you know, don't you? What is that? I thought that was actually for the Poo-Paree product, which is a, it's a spray. Did you make this up? No, no, no, no, it's a spray.

You spray in the toilet bowl, and it's supposedly like, eat the odors of your poop as it goes into the water, which I would argue is just put that in the water a step back You know, that's very I think I think it's a lot more conversation about about People shitting in general at this point in the world, you know, I will come in I mean they didn't use to have ads for for like you know Are you sure you're like people coming out of the for like, are you sure you're, like people coming out of the bathroom and like, are you sure you're clean enough?

Try these and it's like they're handing them like a product or like they're asked with. That's a pretty new thing. And yet, weirdly, we don't really have like, we don't really, you don't really see a lot of condom commercials. Still, they could advertise, but I guess it's kind of like why advertise it?

Everybody's gonna get them anyhow. Yeah. You know, I guess there's more now. They have like, Loub ads. Like, there never used to be Lou bads on television. I remember it's a really recent thing. Yeah, I remember a lot of radio ads for condoms. Do you remember?

There was like, and I feel like they still have them where there's like a character Trojan man. I mean, Trojan man. He's got like a song. Yeah, yeah, Trojan man. Yeah. Yeah. I remember like being a kid and I really-

You were so stupid. Understanding what condoms really were and so thinking that it was Trojitman sounds pretty cool. Yeah, it's a Trojit's you know all about so anyhow so getting back to your worst things on the end of this. So do you so do you ever feel is there any guilt? Do you ever feel guilty when you're posting that stuff? Do you ever feel like I'm I'm hurting somebody. You're numb to that sort No, and it's not that I'm numb. I mean, like I said, you know, I think that, you know, we're professionals here. And when we are choosing these items, that is one of the considerations that goes into it is, is this your purely mocking someone for something that, like, I don't know, is a thing that shouldn't be mocked? Like, or are you mocking them for something

that they kind of did something stupid and they can kind of see it coming. I guess some of it, some of the shocking stuff is that people put it on the internet to begin with. They're like, hey, let me share this openly to everybody. It's like they just have a really bad sense of judgment on what would be good to show people and not show people. Like actually, let's talk about these girls, these college girls. This is a big

story for you in 2015. They did, how would you describe this as the cough syrup? Oh, sorry, did you not know what college girls I was talking about? I don't, I actually don't believe they're college girls. Are they not college girls? They're just girls. They're younger, they're young women. Younger than college or like out of college. I think they're out of college.

Okay. I don't know for sure. I, they're in their early 20s. I can't tell if I'm exposed to this more because I, because we are family and I have just in your circle. Or if everybody is getting exposed to the things like to things like this. So there are these two women. And shout out to them, Freak Mommy and Little Baby Bitch are their names on Twitter. And they posted some pictures of Freak Mommy posted them on Twitter on Twitter of little baby bitch and their other friend but chugging cough syrup

Hold on a second Can you explain to our Listener what butchugging means right so butchugging has existed as a trend for a couple years I remember we wrote about it on Buzzfeed You know back in like 2012 or something I mean it's one these trends like It's not really a trend, but it's kind of funny to write about on the internet and like maybe a couple people actually did it The idea is that you ingest alcohol by putting it up your butt

Instead of drinking it and it would and you have to be upside down for that or you sort of thing that putting it up your butt, instead of drinking it. And do you have to be upside down for that, or you use some sort of thing that shoots it up there, or it would have to process? The original way I saw it was like, fat boys doing it, where they would kind of use like a funnel in a tube, and they would put the tube up their butt, and maybe like lie down or something,

and then someone would report like beer or into it. People were doing this like on their own. Is that what I'm supposed to I mean, I think it was like it was like it was the dare or whatever. Yeah, I mean, I think it was like you know a trend There was a little bit overblown because it's I mean the phrase butt trucking is so funny that it's like how can you not Want to talk about it? But it's like a couple of people ever did it and then it became like a thing. Yeah and

You know, it's it's definitely dangerous because. And, you know, it's definitely dangerous because, you know, you can get more drunk faster by adjusting it the wrong way. It seems like that would be one of the problems with the alcohol. Right. Not like the biggest problem to me. That doesn't seem like the number one problem

is how drunk you get. It seems like there may be other issues. Really? Because I feel like, you know, honestly. It seems like it could be a, it seems like that's not it seems like it'll be messy messy big big problem But also like probably not that much more messy than a regular funnel But it seems like that part of your body probably shouldn't get like the alcohol first Right, no that I mean that's why I'm dangerous like from a health perspective

I'm the same but like from a drunkenness perspective It's like you probably don't want the alcohol hitting your asshole straight away at your and your intestines. You know what I mean? It just seems like the wrong direction. Yeah. I think we can agree that it's physically the wrong direction. Oh yeah. Well, the problem is that it absorbs into your bloodstream much faster and you know, it has in process through like snorting. Yeah. Yeah. So these two brave young women, they butt choked. Yeah. A cough syrup. A cough, they butt choked, cough syrup. Cough syrup. Which is like,

to get fucked up. Yeah. Not because they were sick. No, no, not because it was like, I am such a cold. And really this nightclub isn't doing it for me. What if I ingest it through my anus? And you know, I mean, the thing,

the thing that was really compelling is they had these pictures of them doing it. the pictures are just fantastic pictures. Yeah. Okay. There's pictures. Oh, that's why I pronounce it. And I, I, you're from, you're from Massachusetts. Look, I, I do not accept any criticism about the way I pronounce the word picture. Pitchers, pictures. You know, I'll say to you. Why do you think the sea is not important in the word? What is it? No, you know, the English language is fluid, man? You know, it's like you understand what I'm talking about.

You're in 50 and 50 years, we won't say the word picture. You didn't think I was talking about a joke of lemony. I thought you were actually talking to her. I had to clarify, because I'm not sure. But in this situation, when you say much of a butt chugging, there could be a picture in the wall. So I think this is a special case. Normally, I think I would have been like, I'd say, I'm not using a picture. So maybe you just say photos and picture. I'm just gonna say pics. That's how I would take it out.

Yeah, pics. Anyway, so they're really beautiful pics. Well, they're well shot. Right. There's a certain, I mean, they're just crappy iPhone pics, but like, you know. The iPhone's a powerful photography story. You can tell these girls are like kind of in like a punk warehouse. Like, they're just kind of like. Did anybody do like a shot on iPhone ad with these? Cause I feel like that's a slam dunk. I get a slam dunk Photoshop way to have it.

Um, I, I would love to see this. Listeners of tomorrow, if you could do a shot on iPhone Girls butt-chugging coughs here of ad and and tweet it my way. That'd be great. Yeah, anyhow So these girls, I mean you just have to admire them a little bit like I just saw a picture and like I was like You know, I think partly it's like You know, you don't expect women to be doing this. And I love that they're breaking that gender barrier. Right. And through that glass ceiling.

Yeah, exactly. Now, wait a second. Now, were they at a party with other people? Yes. So there were several people around. Yeah. It was just these two girls. Yeah.

So there are. How many people are at the party? Um, I don't know. I mean, you can't see in the pictures, but in the pics. You know what? I don't need, you know, but in the pics. You know what? I don't need, you know, the last thing I need is some man telling me how to talk.

Oh, that's fine. That's the thing I want to talk about next. We'll get to the Patriarchia in a second. Anyhow, so I ended up talking to them. Are you spoke to the girls? Yes, I spoke. To Lil Baby Bitch and what's the other one? Freak Mommy.

So I spoke with Freak Mommy for a while. We had her as a guest on our podcast. I haven't heard this episode. Oh, you got to hear. I gotta listen to her. Because she physically came in. No, no, no, they're both in California. Skype.

We were just over the phone. So she is hilarious. Like, you know, you never really know what you're gonna get when you have like a guest who has just done something weird on the internet. Yeah. Like they might just be a creep and have- You can see their asses in the photos, know what you're gonna get when you have like a guest who has just done something weird on the internet. Wow. Like they might just be a creep and have- You can see their asses in the photos or is it just sort of like are they clean but

you know what they're doing? So what you can see and part of what makes the composition of these images so fantastic is a little baby bitch is doing like a handstand like leaning up against the wall kind of like like twerking style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And her friend is holding the the night will bottle up to her butt. So it's street bottle bottle right in there. Pulling the her underwear sort of to the side.

So you don't ever actually see asshole. Yeah, but you see some butt cheek. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, okay. And so you see sort of under like. How's the butt? I mean, I've seen the pictures, but I don't I didn't really study them. Um, a great butt.

It's a great butt. Good butt. Okay, good. And so I mean, it's just their amazing pictures. Yeah. Photos. Freak Mommy is just absolutely charming. She was so hilarious. She was on the podcast. She's on the podcast. She was so funny. And open about just happy and open willing to talk about what she's talking about. What does she do? Is she, does she work? Does she have a career outside of her? When someone comes on a podcast to talk about their experience, but

chugging, you don't ask them what they do for a living. Because I would think like, did you have to, like, if you worked in an office and this became a phenomenon on the weekend and you go in on Monday, see, I feel like it would be interesting to know maybe next time you talk to her, you can get this information. Like if she works at, you know, like a call center or something, or if she works at like a real estate place, at, you know, like a call center or something or if she works at like a real estate place or, you know, is a physician. You know, I, I,

she might be a doctor, you know that. I have a feeling that she does not, she lives a life where she's not worried about people knowing about her exploits on the internet. Right. Is the sense I get from her. She's free, man. She's free.

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, she was great. I spoke to Lil Baby Bitch, the one who actually ingested the coves here. She wasn't able to come out of it. So it wasn't only both of them. Only Frick Mommy was able to come on the podcast. No, but Frick Mommy didn't also butt-chug.

No, she just documented it. Yeah, she was there. She was documenting it. I say, I say, I can't. Lil Baby Bitch was also hilarious. I mean, I see, I see. Okay. Lil Baby Bitch was also hilarious. I mean, I just, I chatted with her a little bit, sort of, you know, and I mean, they're great. But they were owning it.

No shame. No shame. I mean, they want people to know. They did something phenomenal. And like, did they? Yes, they did. Do you really think that? Oh, yeah.

You think they did something phenomenal by Butch, like, you coughs here. I think that, do you think that's like that, right? It's like, oh, you know, like the first black president, you know, and then we, you know, cured polio or whatever. And then over here, there's the girls that did the butt-juggie coughs here. I mean, look, obviously those things aren't on the same spectrum, right?

But you can't tell me that there is not something compelling and fascinating and novel and exciting about what they did. I mean, if that wasn't true, we wouldn't be talking about it. I suppose that's true. Well, I sort of was backing into no pun intended conversation about, you know, talking about like the shame factor or like the embarrassment factor of somebody who'd be, but like this is actually interesting because you're saying they fully embrace this. Oh, yeah.

I mean, they, they know what they got. They didn't expect to be picked up somewhere. They're happy. They got picked up. Yeah. No, they, they are American heroes and they know it. Wow. Sheerows.

Sheerows. What is that? Female heroes. Sheerows. Yeah. Okay. Good. Now it brings me to my, I think we'll have to unfortunately be our final topic for the day, which is the patriarchy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good. Now brings me to my, I think we'll have to unfortunately be our final topic for the day, which is the patriarchy. Yeah. Now you're big, you're

big fan of the patriarchy. Love it. You hate the patriarchy. Do I? You're trying to rip it down? Yeah. Yeah. Part of it. Okay. You're a big fan of the media. I say, Mr. President, tear down that wall. Yeah. That patriarchy. You're a fan of female empowerment. Sure, who's not? You hate men. Oh, well, I mean, yes, but not for the reasons you'd think. Why do you hate bad toes, tell us what, tell us what? You know, you'd think. By the way, better hateable, don't get me wrong.

Oh, yeah. They're the worst. It's not because of, I'm disgusted with myself on a daily basis. Yeah, it's not because of the, you know, systemic male oppression or anything like that. It's purely a personal thing. Oh, okay.

I just think they have bad personalities and are not very fun or interesting to talk to. It is true, but you do have male friends. Yes. You have a lot of male friends actually. So you've surround yourself with men that you feel defy the odds. Well, I mean, I wouldn't say that all of them,

I mean, I are likeable good people. You wouldn't say that they're all likable good people. No, but that's not really a quality thing to make my friends. I know I can say that, I think I know who you're talking about here. But you let it campaign last year to unfollow, it was unfollow a man,

where you, do we talk about this in the last podcast? I don't think we did. No, where you were getting, trying to encourage women to not follow men on Twitter. Yeah. And you don't follow it all, Matt. Yeah. But now you're following men again. You slip back. I slip back. You know, I've been doing it for about two and a half years and eventually it was just like, you got bored, you got bored, didn't you? It just seemed like it wasn't, I think at the end of the day, it wasn't really helping

me do my work to not, um, you know what I mean, so I started it as an experiment. I was going to do it just like a month. I was like, what happens if I unfollow all men on Twitter? Yeah. And so I'm only following women. What, how many people were you following? How many people do you follow total? Uh, probably around 700. I mean, at the time, I used to very strictly keep to 666. Wait, what? Yeah, that's a very cool thing to do to only follow 666 people. Yeah, it's like one in one out.

What's that? That's what I do. Do we have a lot of people do that? To me, it's the greatest. Can we talk about this? I don't think we know that. I told people about it. I'm like, this is the solution to your problem.

It's like, you follow 666 because it's cool. Because it's a cool number. It's a market of the beast. And then, if you ever follow anybody else, you gotta unfollow somebody. Exactly. So you keep it fresh. You go down and you go down at the back end of your list.

You're like, who the fuck, why did I follow this person? They're out of there. You got a new person up on top is great. And the cycle goes on and on. I mean, honestly, 666 is a high number. I'd like to get it down, but there's no number that this cool is 666. It's very true.

I mean, 420, but that's interesting. It's a big while together. A little more laid back. 666 is a really aggressive number. Like all the time people tweeting me and they're like, hey, you know you're following 600, 666 people, is that on purpose? What's up with that?

Like they're worried that my soul is gonna burn in the... I mean, it is, but not because of that. You're in the people. You're in the people. You're in the people. You're in the people. Yeah, oh no, it's kind of going, if hell exists. I mean, this is like, you know, I don't think it does.

Yeah. But if the computer program that we're living in is the simulation is programmed to end with you going to have in our hell based on some kind of like game that you played in your life in the simulation, which is the only way that this works for me, then I definitely will go to the next part of the simulation that's hell. Yeah. You know, it makes sense. Well, you know, I'll say this, and I think you might appreciate this as someone who is

adhered to the one-in-one out. Yeah. Best, love it. And, you know, I was doing that too, but what- How do you never talk about this? I don't know. It's weird. I didn't know you did 6666. I'm not anymore. I was doing that too, but what... How do you never talk about this? I don't know. It's weird. I didn't know you did six, six, six, seven. I didn't know anymore. I was kind of over there. Well, so what I realized is, you know, I had been following basically the same people for kind of a long time, you know.

It's like, we've both been on Twitter since like, 2008, 2009. Yeah. Yeah. 2008 is when I joined, I think. And so, like, you know, you kind of up, like most of those people are the same people who've been seen for years. I'm boring. And because of you know,

because you know you have to do one in one out, you end up being really reluctant to follow new people. And. That's true, because it becomes it's kind of a chore, I'm not sure. Yeah. So when you should make an app that automatically finds the person you've least interacted with.

This is a free startup idea. It's a Twitter unfollow app. When you follow somebody, it algorithmically finds the person you've least interacted with. This is a free startup idea. It's a Twitter unfollow app. When you follow somebody, it algorithmically finds the person who's least interested and you've least interacted with and gets them out of your list. Interesting. Just throwing that out there. That's a billion dollar idea right there.

So when I unfollowed all men, because it's also hard to unfollow people, there's a little bit of a social contract there. You can email from somebody why did you unfollow oh, yeah, if you follow each other, then it's kind of an insult. It's like, it's like, it's a team no-one. It's like, you know, this has happened to me. I go to DM somebody who I think we're both following each other,

and then they're not following me. Yeah, and it's like, you know, it's like, you can't be too bad heard about it, but it's like, you know, depending, people can be a little insulted or like whatever. But so if you have this really arbitrary reason, like, I'm just just some following all men, then like no one can get their feelings hurt.

So being clean house. You know, and you unfollow half the people you're following, and then all of a sudden, you know, you're down to 300 people. Yeah. And then you can start following new people, willing nilly. Yeah.

That was actually really fun. Freeing. I should go back down to the bottom of the list and just like scrape 100 or so out of there and just start back up. I mean, yeah, that, for me, that was like the best part of the unfollowment experience was just all of a sudden completely like redoing what Twitter was. Yeah.

You know, I, you know, your whole experience changes, your whole experience changes. I mean, Twitter's what you make of it. It's who you follow. So like, it's true. Um, if you think Twitter sucks and that maybe that's because you've been following the same people for seven years and maybe, you know, that's so interesting. I mean, how's following new people? That's such an interesting point. I've been trying to use Facebook more and follow more people who I'm interested in and who I know and

I like. And sort of like, not try to build the exact same thing as I have on Twitter, but a similar set of interesting people who will share things. I feel like though, Facebook feels so much more like there's a force moving that has nothing to do with all that it's not about what people put on it. It's like a force that moves like those things around. And it just feels like, and it's interesting that you say this about Twitter because it's just that I'm thinking about it now.

It is like, if you follow a couple of new people in a week's time, even just a few people who are active on Twitter, your whole, you start to see all sorts of things you never saw before. And you see last of other things you've been seeing a lot of because you're not following as other people.

That doesn't happen as much on Facebook. And I wonder if that's like some of the addictive quality of Twitter to me is like that feeling that it's such a constant stream of like direct. Yeah. You know direct flow. This is just me think it was riffing, just thinking out loud. But you really evoked a thought in my mind.

I mean, I would say that if you- Can you evoke a thought? For anyone who's been on Twitter for more than five years, I think it's worth it to take an hour and go through your list and be like, let me change this up. Let me try something new because, you know, I don't know, like it's,

if you've been listening to the same 400 people for the past eight years, like that's really annoying. It is annoying. They're boring, it's true. I've actually unfought a lot of people pretty recently who were like, it's like, I started following you and I, like at AOL.

Yeah. And like, man, I don't know why I kept following you and I, like, at AOL. Yeah. And like, man, I don't know why I kept following you, which is you're just back there. Yeah. And you see these links, you're like, where the fuck did this come from? And it's like some random person. Yeah.

So yeah, I mean, I think that's a good point. Now, what about Peach though? Another Peach exists, isn't Twitter? Twitter's over, man. Peach is where it's at. Is Twitter dead? I don't know. You think Twitter is in for the long haul?

Sure. I mean, you want to talk about technology. Oh, yeah. I want to talk about technology as soon as you got in here. I mean, I actually wonder because I used to think Twitter was really super duper important. And now it just seems like a really bad comment thread sometimes. Yeah.

I'm kind of like, I don't want to be in this comment thread. Right. Maybe that's the people, though. Yeah. I mean, that's sort of one of the things that ended up happening to me after unfollowing all men was that, you know, I realized, you know, after a year, like I intended to do it for a month and then I was going to go back and then I just kind of kept going, letting it go for a while. Yeah. And I kind of, I, you

know, to be honest, like, I missed some of the men, like, there were people who were interesting or funny whose tweets I no longer were seen. Sure, like, drill. Yeah. You know? One of the best accounts. If you don't follow drill. At drill.

If you don't follow, D-R-I-L, if you don't follow drill, you know I was about not even being on Twitter. Exactly. As far as I'm concerned. And so those kind of accounts were the things that made Twitter really fun for me. Yeah. I was like, was drill.

Twitter comedy, Twitter comedy is actually the thing that I think is the best feature of Twitter is if somebody really knows how to use that platform for comedy, that is where it's at its absolute best. All the rest of the shit is basically noise. It's like people trying to have conversations in the can of conversations or people trying to share stuff and it's not really a very good share. I will say this and then I think we have to wrap up. I have one final point to make about Twitter. You give me a lot of food for thought.

First off, and I really appreciate that. I got in the shower today and I had an idea for a tweet and I was so excited to do the tweet that I got out of the shower like after being in there for like one minute. Like wet. They got back in the show. I was like, if I don't do it now, if I don't do it now, the moment's gonna be gone. I'm not gonna tell you what the tweet was,

but what? No, I'm not gonna reveal it. Come on. I want people to guess. I want them to figure out. Did you actually tweet it? Do I follow you on Twitter? I don't know.

I might not. I have no idea, Katie. I don't know, but you follow me in real life and that's what's important. That's true. I don't know what I do follow you on Twitter. I hope so. I'm a great guy.

I'm very charming on Twitter. Okay. I've tried to balance. I used to be. I hope so. I'm a great guy. I'm very charming on Twitter. I've tried to balance. I used to be very like, sharey. Obviously, you know, when I was working at a publication, I was doing a lot of sharing of the stories from those publications. Yeah, yeah. Now that I've had some downtime to just be myself, I have explored the boundaries of Twitter

and what it can be like for me. And I've gotten into pretty messed up places. But you should just go full drill. Honestly, honestly, and I think you know this, I'm not gonna go into detail, but I think you know that if I went put my whole self into Twitter, my true self, I'd lose a lot of followers pretty quickly,

and I think it just a pretty funny twist. I do remember that you and I won't I won't I won't name any names. I won't name what this account is don't name any tweets. I won't name what this account is don't say the tweet. I know Tweet you know I know I know I know I'm not going to say it. You have a secret all to count. That you have only ever done. I don't know if it exists anymore to be honest or yeah. I think it does. I was very, it was a long time ago. And I think I was drunk when I made it.

And I think the only thing you treated was like some sort of pun that was vaguely offensive. Oh, pun. Some sort of joke that was just like slightly offensive. I have a couple of counts actually. Oh really? Other counts that I, I have a counts that I started I thought I was going to do something with. Mm-hmm. One that I'm, some I'm not count that I started. I thought I was going to do something with. Mm-hmm. One that I'm some I'm not proud of. Some I am proud of.

Yeah. Yeah. I have a similar thing. I want to it's actually a point of pain for me. And I feel very guilty about it. I had a point. MIT fridge. The truth came into the truth comes out.

Darth, you're darth, right? I'm darth. I so I remember you doxed darth, that was the thing. I mean, the most embarrassing thing is that I was unable to dox darth. I know darth is. Do you? Yeah, I'm gonna dox them.

Really? Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm okay, I've never done darth. I love darth too much. I love Photoshop, so that's one of the A.C.D.O. about me. Yeah. I love a great Photoshop, that's one of the A-Shadow, Bobbi. I love a great Photoshop, especially Darth.

Anything about it, anything about tech people in the tech world, just slam dunk. Yeah. Anyhow, you have an account in the candy rid of. You can't take it. I enjoy bird watching. And there's these rare bird alerts that come as like an old school message thread that like it's

it's actually this weird thing where you actually have to call in the report or something like that and then you get like a once a day like alert it's very like old school. Like a transcript? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I get these as part of like a Yahoo group. But I was thinking, you know, when it be cool if there was a Twitter account that would tweet whenever there is a New York City Rare Burdolary. Like if you could sink that like if you get like a feed and it would just Out of published a Twitter. Right. Like that would be amazing. So I created an account NYC Burdolary. And I attempted for a while to like I would read the bird reports and I would tweet them out as they were happening. You'd sum it up.

Yeah, and, but you know, honestly, like I couldn't, I would just, I sort of like lost interest and gave it up. And I feel a little guilty because I'm so. So that's a dormant account. Yeah, it's mostly dormant. And I'm sort of sitting on this like, good name for an account.

And I've actually had people tweet at it like, are you still doing this? Like clearly people would like this I don't know not very many I mean it wasn't more after this NYC bird alert well maybe I see Bert alert maybe I need to pick it up again I'm not you just start putting whatever on there you don't have to do bird alerts you can say anything well you should what you should have been doing was starting to mix in really crazy bird alerts that weren't real bird alerts like terrible act of seeing the Empire State Building authorities called, you know, something like that. Yeah, yeah, throw that in there.

Yeah, it was on to the wild. All right. I think we got it. We get a wrap up. Katie, this is great. As always, Josh, thank you so much. I love when you're on the show now two times. Yeah.

And each time has been more special than the last. Wow. Yeah. Although the first time was just special enough because there had been nothing preceding it. Right. It was just special for the first time. This is more special.

Yeah. Anyhow, thanks for joining me. And you'll have to come back. And no thanks to Magnus, who's a bum. Yeah. And has disappointed everyone. His fans and his friends alike. Well, that's our show.

We'll be back next week with more tomorrow, of course. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best, though I've just gotten an NYC bird alert and something horrible is coming into life. you