Tomorrow - Episode 44: The Box That Destroyed The Internet

Episode Date: March 14, 2016

On this episode, Josh is joined by longtime collaborator and strange person, Michael Shane. Look we're going to be honest: this podcast is completely insane, but also might be the best episode of Tomorrow ever. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow, I'm your host Josh Watsopolski. Today on the podcast we discuss three by two's, the Vivian Girls, and institutional racism. I don't want to waste one second, so let's get right into it. My guest today is one of my favorite people, and a consistent performer on tomorrow. I'm of course talking about my old friend and arch nemesis Michael Shane the managing editor at Bloomberg digital Bloomberg media digital Bloomberg digital slash media. Hi Michael. Hi. That's what I guess this is the first time you've ever described me as a nemesis. Yeah, you're a son of a bitch. I'm gonna take you down.

It's a real strange time. I'm gonna take you down to Chinatown, my man. That's right, it's happening. Anyhow, I want to get you on because one of the things that we do best is find a way to spend, you know, easily like an hour and a half or two hours basically talking about nothing. It's the best.

And I feel at this moment, I feel drained of, of, I feel drained. I feel like all of the things that are happening have been happening consistently for a very long time. Do you know I'm saying? I mean, that sounds like our modern life. It's like the, it's like the Galaxy S7, you know, new phone from Samsung. I'm aware of it. Yeah, just like the last phone from Samsung, like the six and the. Yeah. Just like the last phone from Samsung. Like the six and the five.

It's like water. It's getting water resistant. Hey, remember the galaxy nexus? Those were the good old days. Sorry, I'm just taking a sip of this Johnny Walker black label from having. My voice is a little shot by the way. I'm in Los Angeles. I should set the stage a little bit here.

Yeah, we're by coastal right now. Well, it's not get crazy. I'm in Los Angeles at an Airbnb in Echo Park, which is something this is completely out of character for me. How so? Well, I don't, I'm not like a guy who likes staying in other people's places. He doesn't, I'm a man who likes extreme luxury at a, at a luxury hotel. Mm-hmm.

You'll find me at the, at the bar ordering ordering a double of a double of McAllen 18 at a Weston in Atlanta. Do you know how much that costs by the way? If you actually only order a double of McAllen 18 at the Weston in Atlanta. Let me guess. The airport Weston. Okay, it's an airport Weston, a double of McAllen 18. Yeah. I'm going to go with $87. You're very close. It was, I think it was 80. I think itan 18. Yeah. I'm gonna go with $87. You're very close. It was, I think it was 80. I think it was 80.

Man. And then you got a tip. Yeah, no, you got a tip. And you can't, like, when you do something like that, you can't do the $1 per drink. The bartender wasn't her fault that I'm a stupid person. You know, what am I gonna do? Be like, here's a buck.

Well, and the thing is, when you order a drink like that, I think I tip like a person. You have to tip like a person. Then you look like here's a buck. Well, and the thing is when you order a drink like that I think I took you have to you have to tip like a person then you look like then you look like a guy You're like okay, so it's got to be like 20% I'm this guy. I wasn't 20% It was like a $10 tip or something. Yeah, wait wait is that 20% of 80? No, no, what's 20% of 80 man? I'm really my brain is fried right now. You got to be careful there in LA, man. No, I'll tell you what happened. Let me tell you what's going down. Okay. I got out here for some meetings

and then some other meetings came out of the blue. Ooh, I was supposed to come back over the weekend, just come back on Friday or whatever. Right. And some other meetings came up like earlier the next week and I was like, I hate flying. I don't know if everybody knows this about me.

You might know this about me. Oh, I know. I greatly, greatly dislike flying. Well, it's very difficult for you because you're such a tall, large human specimen. Yeah, but it's not just the sea, yes, the seething arrangements are an issue, but it's not just the seething arrangements. It's also that whenever the plane has any turbulence or there's anything that seems unusual, I get 100% sure that we're going to die

and the plane is going to crash. And so no matter what, I know statistically and all this bullshit, it just doesn't work. It just doesn't have any impact on me. I wanna ask you a question. Yeah, please do. Do you have global entry or TSA pre-check or one of those situations?

No, I don't. I actually, a funny story. It's not that funny. Actually, this is not even remotely funny. I'm going to tell it anyhow. When I was at Bloomberg, I had an assistant at Bloomberg. I named Tate Foster. Love Tate.

Who's still there? Tate, if you're listening to this, we love you. He's great. And Tate was like, I was there. Tate if you're listening to this we love you. He's great and Tate was like I was like Tate. I need to get The not global entry but the TSA pre which is the one you really want to get yeah, and he's like okay They've got you can you cuz you have to do an interview correct because they have to be sure you're not a terrorist Yeah, by getting face to face with you absolutely I. I have a follow up story to this actually. And I said, okay, let's get, let's book it. You know, he said, okay, the next meeting,

they can give you the next appointment is in November. It was like November, you know, it was November of last year. But when he told me this, it was like July. Oh man, or something like that. Well, it's a very popular service. Well, right. So I forgot about it.

I was like, yeah, book it. And then I completely forgot about it. And he didn't remind me. Actually, this might be Tade's fault. So I never went to get the, but they didn't make it easy. I mean, it wasn't like you can't just like, oh, it'll be next Tuesday. You know, they have like three people, apparently, who do the interviews. And that's it.

And if you don't get, if you don't get in with those three people, you're finished. Anyhow, my follow on story is I've been riding in a lot of Ubers in LA. I finally got a rental car because I was like, oh, I'm stuck here. You need a car. Right. When I'm going to take a sip of this Johnny Walker one second. I should I should say Johnny Walker not a sponsor of tomorrow. Though they should be. I'm happy to do it. I should say Johnny Walker, not a sponsor tomorrow, though they should be.

I'm happy to do it. I would be happy to engage in a conversation with Johnny Walker's brand managers, brand ambassadors about a sponsorship. Because you know, my old age, they're brand influencers, because you know, my old age, I've switched to, well, I haven't fully switched. Let's put it this way. When I went to the bodega slash liquor store here in Echo Park, I got some vodka and some black label because you were all- I was going to say, if you're off-Vodka, so does I'm worried. You never know where the night's going to take you. When you're alone in a house in a strange place, you never know if you're going to get drunk on

brown liquor or clear liquor. Right. I mean, that's the thing about Airbnb is there's two kinds of Airbnb's, right? There's the Airbnb, which is like, they're clearly running a side business and no normal person actually lives their full time. Yeah. And then there's the Airbnb where you're like, definitely in someone's house mingling with their dust and, you know. I think I'm in the Airbnb where I think this is somebody's place. Here's my here's my guess based on what by the way if anybody who's listening to this thinks this is interesting you're a real champion. I think that this is somebody who They have good taste first off. I mean, it's kind of like shabby chic, but they've got good taste. I

Think this is somebody who bought this place and was marginally successful doing something and then got more successful doing something. I'm thinking they're like a screenwriter or a director because there are some books here that suggest it's a person who's researching very specific things. Oh, interesting. There might be a designer of some type at any rate. I think that they had this place, they probably were like renting it, maybe like monthly, like doing leases with people. They don't think they live here. And I think they decided, hey, let's turn it into a...

So you think it's like an investment property of sorts? I don't know if investment property is the word that I would use to describe it. What it feels like to me is they lived here, and then they upgraded. They upgraded and instead of selling this place, they're like, you know what I think I'll run it out. And that's what they do know. And that is that is the end of the story about who I think owns this

idea of being. That's my best shit right there. That is some primo A1 prime JT. Well, look, so let's go back to the global entry thing. Because here's what I can tell you. Please, let's do go black back to it. If you have TSA pre checker global entry, yeah, it is worth every penny. Yeah. And it does take the edge off of the brutal dehumanization that goes along with flying commercial air in the United States.

A modernization word. Hold on. I'm pretty sure it feels like it isn't. Dehumanization. I had to use it the dehumanization. Dehumanization is a word. Most of the words I say are words. Oh, it's definitely a word.

It is, okay, good, congratulations. But it's always good to check. We gotta keep our each other's promise. Here's what we know. Here's what I can tell you about myself. I don't know what 20% of 80 is. And I do not know that dehumanization was actually a word. So I think we're learning some pretty interesting

stuff about gospel. But now you do know that you should do TSA precheck or global entry. I'm laying down right now. Can you tell it just my voice sound different? No, it sounds exactly the same. Well, I was sitting up and then I was like, I'm in this bedroom because it's the it's the most soundproof place in the, in the establishment. I live in New York. My New York City apartment is not soundproof at all. You sound good though. You sound great. It's everybody knows.

But, uh, so I was like sitting here and then I was like, why don't I just lay down? You're on a temperedic right now, you say? It is temperedic. They have a temperedic in this bedroom. Now, is this, is this the same type of temperedic that you personally have? I have no fucking idea. I'll be honest with you. I don't know which one I have. I know that it's pretty comfortable, although I've been starting to think lately,

maybe it's not as comfortable as I thought it was. I always enjoyed it. When it gets warm, we should probably say, why should explain that? We should explain that, but hold on. When it gets warm, here's the thing about tempered pete, they don't tell you. You don't really understand this.

I like a very firm bed. I like a bed that's firm, but forgiven. Yes. It gets warm. Here's's warm outside, the bed gets softer. Interesting. And when it's cold, the thing is like a fucking rock. It's like a cold, hard rock when it's cold. Now what's to you prefer? The rock. I prefer the rock. I mean, the rock is tough to get into though

because it's like, you know, you get into it and it's so shockingly cold. Yeah. Because it doesn't, it just, it's like, you know, it's like a cold blooded animal. The temper p-dick is like a frog iningly cold. Yeah. Because it doesn't, it just, it's like, you know, it's like a cold blooded animal. Yeah. The temper p-dick is like a frog in many ways. Yeah.

You know, it, it, it's temperature rises and falls with the, with the outside, the air temperature. Now, I have a, a tough to needle. Yeah, how do you like, so we have tough to needle, we, in our guest rooms, we have tough to, tough to needle. I love it.

Not a sponsor of the podcast. No, actually, I, I actually, I haven't looked, I'm fairly certain now that we're saying this. And I'm going to get to it. I think that Casper is a sponsor of either this show or the next one. I'm not sure. But, you know, I will say, I have to say something. Casper and Tufton Needle, this is not, by the way, driven by any sponsorship interest. You know, Tufton Needle and Casper came, I feel like they showed up around the same time. Yeah, yeah.

I think Casper has done a much better job with the marketing. Oh, they have their everywhere. They got ads everywhere. I mean, we're, you know, I'm like, why didn't I get a Casper? Well, I got a tough to needle, honestly, because it was a little less expensive and they basically seemed about the same. They're going to eat me alive when they hear this. The Casper people are going to go crazy.

Oh, I'm so sorry. Well, look, I'm not endorsing any products, okay? That's true. I'm just telling you what's going on out there. Yeah. But I will say, if you don't buy a Casper, someone's probably gonna murder you. Yeah, they're gonna come to your house.

I think what happens is if you don't get a Casper, they kill you. Not Casper, not Casper. No, someone does. Other people. Yeah. They know you blew it. So speaking of good, uh, the editing on this episode is going to be epic. No, you're not going to edit any of it.

Yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. I'm not. That's true. Two really great ad campaigns in the New York City subway right now. Tell me if you've seen these. I don't, I'm not on the subway very much, but that's true. Now that you live in the sticks. That's right. You come into the city. I'm on the subway sometimes. I mean, I'm actually, I just, okay, go ahead, tell me about the app. I mean, you're busy switching between the town car and the helicopter. I mean, town car, I mean, let's, I'm, I'm gonna,

listen, if I were the kind of person you're describing, they stopped making the town car in like 2013, okay? Now, I know this because I do take a lot of ubers, and uber, out here they have a thing called take a lot of ubers and uber out here they have a thing called uber select, which is like uber black, but it's like it's weird. It's like it's like uber black, but it's not, but the cars are much nicer. Hmm. That's good. And it's cheaper, but it's cheaper. But here's the thing. I was just talking to a driver. I do have this conversation all the time with drivers about the

town car, because in my opinion, the town car has the nicest ride in the back seat. Far and away. So much room. It's not just the room. It's a better ride. It's really smooth. I get very car sick. It's a very smooth ride.

And I got to tell you all of these new fucking luxury cars, the BMWs, the Mercedes, the Audi's, I think are a little bit better, but most of them have a pretty bumpy ride in the back. Yeah. And I was in a BMW the other day, and it was like not only was the ride bad, but the ceiling, the roof was so low that I had to sit like in the middle of the back seat. Oh, wow. Because on the side, I couldn't, yeah, my head was hitting the side of like where the window was. And he had to listen, this is the kind of, this is the kind of champagne problems that I'm experiencing. I'm like, you hear the shit that's coming out of my mouth. I want to tell you about the way I've been doing it.

I know I want to hear, but it's just listen, just listen to me for that. I mean, when they start to be headings, I'm going to be first, I'm going to be a first in line. They're going to push me right into the front of the line. Oh, the BMW, the BMW I was in had very low, a very low roof. What a horrible person I am. I mean, you're just doing your part to support and further the service economy. You know what? It's all about the sharing economy. And I'm, look, it's not your fault. You're like seven feet tall. I'm sharing the hell out of several luxury cars every day. Anyhow, tell me about these subway ads.

Oh, so I just, I want to know if you've seen these, there's two campaigns run a grand. One of them is for street easy and one of, and the other one is the seamless. And they're all, I love any time a subway ad like goes out of its way to use quirky illustration or like hand lettering combined with inside baseball New York City jokes.

What is the thing again? There's one for street easy. You know the app where you can find apartments. Sure, also not a sponsor. No, not a sponsor. As far as I know. And the other is for seamless, also not a sponsor. You know, seamless for food delivery.

Yeah, I'm aware of seamless. Yeah, I wish seamless for a sponsor. Yeah, I use GrubHub though, because they have yummy Rummy. I think they own, I think seamless of seamless. Yeah, I wish I wish seamless for a sponsor. Yeah, I use grub hub though because they have yummy rummy Which I think they own I think seamless owns No, it's the same thing but with grub hub. Yeah, what did you say? What did you say yummy rummy? What is yummy rummy? So you can basically win discounts on food? Why would how would you do that? Like well, sometimes it's it's after a certain number of orders Sometimes they just send you stuff but other times and you'll now know why I love this,

there's four cards on the screen. One of the cards is a peppermint. One is a slice of chocolate cake, and I can't remember the other two, but you pick a card at random, and it might contain a discount on your next order. So it really appeals to the degenerate gambler and all of us.

Well, the degenerate gambler, and now I'm gonna remind the audience for those that don't know that Michael Shane is, uh, he can count cards. Absolutely. That's an exaggeration. He basically can count cards. He's like rainman at a casino. Michael Shane, I mean, he's probably been banned from some casinos in Las Vegas.

He will win money at a blackjack table. Like you can kind of bet on Michael to win money. I should start a secondary market on you. I mean, bet that you're going to win. You and I said we shouldn't be very effective. Now that we don't have to go to CES anymore, we should, we still should go to Vegas once a year just to see. I'll never say never. You never know. I'm never going to be go to CES anymore. We should, we still should go to Vegas once a year. Just never say never, you never know.

I'm sure you never know. You never know in the next year. You back at CES. I know people in South by Southwest right now and I really am feeling for them. Yeah. There's so many brands, there's so many brands with so many good ideas.

And I just say, I've been speaking of brands with good ideas. I've been in LA now for a few days and I've noticed something that is troubling to me. Hit me. And maybe this is just because I don't go out that much or maybe it's just a different vibe out here than New York. People are fucking taking selfies all the time. Everywhere I go, people are taking selfies.

Everybody's taking selfies. Like not by the way, it's not just like, you know, dickheads on, you know, walking up and down like, you know, Abbot Kinney and Venice Beach, which is like this hip kind of, you know, strip of, it's actually, it's actually very nice to be honest with you, there's little shops and restaurants and things, but, you know,

it's not just like the people that you would expect, like people making duck faces and stuff, you know? Okay. It's everybody. Like, like, it's this guy. Like, I saw a guy, I saw a guy, he was like hauling garbage, and then he stopped and started taking his selfie. He was kind of doing like a duck face.

You know what I mean? I feel like in LA, there's this thing where everybody's just doing it. I'm very worried about the future of our species. I'm worried, I'm worried too. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm, I'm not contributed. I mean gonna be honest with you. I'm, I'm, I've contributed. I mean, listen, who, who here has contributed more

to getting people excited about smartphones than I have. And I have to say, I think, I think I've damaged some people. Oh yeah. I mean, I'm not taking, look, what I haven't had much of an impact, but I'm saying like, look, I've been spending the last, you know, 10 years or whatever, I mean, how great technology is and now look at what's happened.

But look with great power comes great responsibility. Texting and driving selfies, the sharing economy. I mean, look, Josh, if you, if you didn't take a selfie of it, it didn't happen. You know what? That doesn't make any sense. Your memories, selfies, like, selfies, not even a thing. I mean, it's not like it's not going to be a document. You're just documenting yourself.

I'm not, I'm a problem with it, by the way. Like I, I, I'm sure you can find some, some, what would essentially amount to a selfie of me on social media. But you know, I try to keep myself is limited to peach, but I do an occasional Instagram thing. You know, here's the thing. I do, I do worry, I do worry that it's all meaningless, you know? Like, what are we doing this for? What is performance for? It's like somebody had a bad idea a little while back. It was like, we should be on these things called social networks.

And we should all get connected up and form these relationships. And we should be constantly trying to like showcase the best version of ourselves. I think there's something not good about it. I'm not saying I just had this realization, but I do think that like increasingly it looks like you walk around. I'm not and not an old person here, but you walk around and it feels like a fucking parody. I mean, maybe it's just LA, but it's like a parody. It's like, I don't think it's just LA. I don't know. I think are you in on the joke?

Like, do you know what this looks like? People are so busy curating their lives that they're not living for. They forget to live them. Here, I have a question for you. And this is actually sort of an anthropological question, which I'm sure you know the actual answer to. I'm loving it.

For the sake of our listeners. Yeah. Here's a question. So what came first, the selfie or the front facing camera? Do you remember? Like, do you remember the order, like how that came happen? People were, I don't think the front facing camera. I think there were funds with the front facing cameras, but before like, selfies have been

around forever though. I mean, you have to understand the depth, like whatever we think is a selfie, however we define it. I mean, there have been versions of selfies for hundreds, if not thousands of years. This is true. I mean, I mean, I'm telling you,

like that's not new. It's not new that people want to see themselves or show people themselves like that in that way, you know? Yeah. A lot of artists, a lot of artists painted, you know, pictures of themselves. Like, you could think of this in a lot of different ways. I'm just saying there's something really vacant about the current, but like the current state of, of selfie done, you know, like there's something, there's something,

like I get it, like you want to look at good looking people or people in like situations that you like, right? Sure or like if somebody's like involved in playing crash or they survive you and they do a selfie of themselves standing outside the wreckage like I want to see that and I'm happy to see that they've documented themselves in that situation because you know good good kudos good for you you made it yeah I just think but I do think there is something I don't know I don't know. I don't know. It's just like when you see someone out in public doing it, it's a little embarrassing. Well, the

thing that's interesting to me about selfies is how much like the composition of the selfie is, is a is a result of the technology being used, right? So like when you use cell phones to take selfies, they're often from this very high angle, which has come about because people are trying to take the most better angle. You know, as a photographer, you know, I finally got around to watching the documentary, um, finding Vivian Mayor, uh, about the, did you, did you ever see this? No. You should definitely watch it. I'm aware of it. Um, it's a, for those who don't know, it's a documentary about a trove of hundreds of

thousands of photos and negatives that were discovered taken by this woman throughout her whole life where she spent most of her professional life as a nanny, but she obsessively took photos the whole time. And there's a ton of really beautiful and haunting selfies in this collection, but they were all taken with a rola flex, which is that camera that you actually, usually you see people holding it around their stomach because they look down and the viewfinder

is at the top of the camera, right? So all the selfies taken with that are from a much more like neutral angle, which is a totally different aesthetic. It's really interesting. Everyone should see that documentary and also think about why selfies look the way they do. That's sort of like, I want to say Henry Darger is the artist's name. He's, there's a documentary about him. I should Google this, I think it's Henry Darger.

There's a documentary called In the Realms of the Unreal. I maybe have talked about this before, but if people who are listening to this have not seen this documentary, immediately stop what you're doing, stop listening, no, don't stop listening to this, but when this is over, go and watch it. I'm sure it's on Netflix. I'm googling right now in the realms of the Unreal.

It is narrated by Dakota Fanning when she's very young. Like, she's very young and she narrates it and this guy was, my key is like the king of outsider artists. Here's the deal. I mean, I'll give you the broad strokes because you have to see the, I mean, everybody, anybody who's curious about the world and life should see this documentary. It's one of the most amazing films I've ever seen. Wow. This guy was like a janitor at a school or something for his whole life. Yeah. And everybody thought, oh, he's this weird kind of like simple or whatever dude. And meanwhile,

he was creating this vast, vast catalog of like writings and art and all of these crazy things about 15,000 page anti-key man. He wrote a 15,000 page book about the, I think they're called the Vivian Girls. Yeah, so it's very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very of the unreal of the Glendecco and Jolinean war storm caused by the child's slave rebellion. Yeah, it is. I mean, I'm just, I'm getting

chills just remembering some of it. It is an amazing film, but like to see what this guy was doing on his own alone, no expectation of anyone ever seen, completely for himself, basically. It's disturbing. It's like beautiful. It's so it's like completely haunting. Like the entire you have to watch it. I mean,, it's like beautiful, it's so, it's like completely haunting.

Like, you have to watch it. I mean, I have to say like, I feel like I've talked about it before on the podcast, but maybe not. But it is really, you know, unlike anything, but it's very similar to what you're talking about, you know, in the sense that when you, you know, what's what's strange is, is we make everything is, everything is performative now, right? Everything is performance. You know, what we create and why we create it often, most often, is for an audience. And you know, this is sort of getting, you know, going back to the selfie conversation, but it's like, that doesn't always have to be the way you make things, right?

I think, I do think that we've lost some of the pleasure of doing something for yourself or being, looking inward versus looking outward or looking inward without the expectation that other people will be looking. I mean, think about it like this. Can you name one thing in your life that you do that brings you pleasure? Oh boy. That never, that never, other than that thing, that never is, that you never share in some digital ways. There are hobby that you have or a habit or something you do. That's a great question. That has never made its way into your smart phone.

I'm trying to think about it for myself, and even the things that I love. Like how, I mean, you mean like, even if you share a picture or whatever of that thing. Right, like, is there anything that you love that's important, that's an important part of your life that you have never brought into the digital world? I'm trying to think about it for myself, and even the things that I love that most people

don't even know about me hobbies or whatever There's some evidence of all of it somewhere on the internet. Right. No, I I mean just thinking that's an interesting question thinking about it. I couldn't say that I had there's anything Right That's a weird feeling, right Yeah, in some ways it's like there aren't there's really it is there's no secrets anymore We should take I want wanna take a break. Ooh, sponsor time. And ponder this.

You just maybe realize something. Yeah. I hope I come back after the break. Please come back. Yeah, all right, let's take a break. We'll be right back with more thought provoking, deep introspective thought from Michael Shane. Sunday Night Man gotta be back for dawn.

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We were just on some very deep stuff. We're talking about something you do in private besides masturbating. Do you share it with the world? Are you sharing it? Which everyone does and is healthy and normal. No, we don't know. I mean, some people might not, you know. That's cool.

It's your choice. That's cool. It's not for me. I don't enjoy a physical sexual pleasure. That's fine. If that's how you feel. Yeah, you know Absolutely on the other hand I'm a I'm a sex addict. Oh, yeah, I don't know self Facing sex addict as we know as we were saying everyone knows that because there is very raw secrets and more here I actually actually I'll say I think I think sex is one of those I think that's a very wrong thing. Everyone knows that because there is very wrong. There's very wrong. There's no secrets anymore here. Actually, I think sex is one of those, I think for most people, on that point, I think sex is one of those things where people do not. And by the way, I think rightfully so, and absolutely, as it should be, that's a very intimate part of their lives that they would never share.

Most people would never, ever share in any social setting. Absolutely. On the internet or otherwise. Right. You've got obviously the internet, I think the internet has encouraged and allowed for more sharing. And I will say, I think that's a positive thing. I think that when you look at how quickly the attitude on gay marriage changed in this

country and on attitudes on transgender people and on just LGBT stuff in general. I like to refer to it as human rights. Yeah, human rights, I think that that, I think the internet has been an amazing tool to change people's ways of thinking and to expose them to things. And that is where, like by the way, like the flip side of selfie culture

is like the sharing culture that exists on the internet has allowed for voices that are not heard and people that are not seen to speak up and to be noticed and to matter. And that's incredible. Well, there's absolutely an aspect to it that's really beautiful. I mean, I remember this past New Year's, I was killing time because I wasn't out partying because I'm, you know, I can very talk.

You're a very boring guy. But I was looking at Snapchat and I was flicking through the New Year's story, right? And like, as I've tweeted at least five times before, the moment I knew I was old was when I downloaded Snapchat and didn't immediately intuitively understand the interface. So I don't use it that often. Well, it's actually not that intuitive in an interface.

Well, it does have a really simple, it does a really simple sort of onboarding. Yeah. Like, I mean, actually, it's sort of stupidly obvious, like the basic things you can do as Snapchat. Right. But it's actually, it's more complex than that, and the complexity is not well, uh, message. So anyway, I was, I had a really wonderful experience

because I was browsing the New Year story and in chronological order, following New Year celebrations from all around the world, totally raw, first person, just from people. And that was really cool and that was really special. But I would challenge everyone listening to this podcast. If you were fortunate enough to take a, to be able to take a vacation at some point the next couple of months, see if you can do it without posting on social media at all. See what

happens. Yeah, it's tough. Right. It is tough. I do find that, um, I don't know, I think because of what I do and who I am, I have a much easier time completely ignoring social media, you know. It's definitely very easy for me to just not pay attention to it at all. Do you think that's because it's been so much a part of your professional life? Oh yeah, no I do. And particularly now in the the current period where I've had downtime where I haven't had to be 24-7 news cycle I have found that

It's much easier to tune it out. I actually now I'm like for the first time in in a very long time I know what it's like for most normal people who are not like weird nerds like me you know who haven't been Psychetically plugged into this thing and and it's sort of it interesting to see, and maybe this is what's giving me my like current reflection on, you know, the sort of current mood of reflection that I have on social media and on the way that we interact with each other. But yeah, I mean, I do think my, yeah, of course, if you're a person who used to wake up in the middle of the night, sure that there was a new story breaking, I mean, I don't do this anymore,

but there was definitely several years where I would wake up at like two or three in the morning and I would just check because I always felt like something's happening, you know, something's happening somewhere. Anyhow, by the way, there's a great Tumblr, which I'm sure a lot of people follow. It's called, this isn't happiness.

I think it's probably a guy named Pete's key. He's an incredible curator. He does a, every once in a while, he'll do us, I think, a photo, he'll curate photos, and it's like something happening somewhere. It's his title that he uses for those sets. And he's a really, really, has an amazing eye, editorial, and just sort of curatorial eye.

A lot of endorsements of things that people should get. This is a lot, this is really beautiful stuff. I'm looking at it right now. Oh, you see, yeah. I wish there was a way for me to commit to a tumbler without using tumbler. Yeah, there is. A lot of these are available. You can plug them into feedly and get a...

Oh, okay. That's what I do. I don't look at tumbler. I almost never look at tumbler itself. I take the tumbler blogs that I like and I put them into feedly. And I'm pretty sure whether it's a tumblr thing or something else, they're all available, I mean, they're available for the most part in Feely. I have, I don't think I found one that isn't.

This is great. I think I'm gonna make this part of my invitation. I believe you've never thought of that. That's shocking to me. Well, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm simple. Makes you some stupid, makes you some like a very stupid. I'm gonna, I'm gonna follow this guy on Twitter. I mean, he's great.

I mean, he's like hugely popular Tumblr guy I mean, yeah, it's my impression But he's one of these great Tumblr curators and you know Tumblr It's in this it's so weird. It's like at Yahoo, and I think people feel like it's it's sort of been lost in the Sea of news of news social networks and yet and yet Tumblr still is like the best for certain things and I think there's Yeah, there's certain curating so great curating visual like single visual hits. Yeah, it's like Tumblr is still the best for certain things. And I think there's certain things. They're sort of creating so great. Curating visual, single visual hits, is like Tumblr is still the best. I don't know why, I don't know why that is.

I don't know, I mean, I think it's the simplicity of the interface and the simplicity of how the thing was built. It just is such an amazing, there is no better. Like on the last podcast, I talked to Sylvia Killingsworth in the last podcast and I was like, how's Tumblr doing, sort of saying like it's not doing that great. And I think that I do think that the view is, I mean, it was a write down at Yahoo, they basically lost money on it. Right. And, you know, as a business, I think there's a real question

mark is like about what Tumblr, well, there's no good question marks around all of Yahoo. All of Yahoo, right. But, you know, I think Instagram stole a lot of tumblers thunder. It's a very hard sentence to say. I just want to say like what I those words that I put together were very difficult. I thought I was going to make it. And so, you know, there's a question about like, well, how come tumblr, how come tumblr didn't do Instagram, you know? Yeah.

And I think I understand why there's a really interesting vibrant community of people on Twitter. And I think I understand why. There's a really interesting, vibrant community of people under who are here. I also feel like Tumblr is somehow more, when I look at Instagram, it feels like very tight. Like there's not a lot of emotional intellectual space. It's the variety. There's no assets.

It's a very little variety on Instagram. I've tried to follow people on Instagram who are not in my immediate circle who are doing the interesting things because I wanna to see what else is out there. You know, I'm yeah, but I do I do think there's a there's a tremendous sameness to the offerings. Instagram forces you into a kind of. Yes, that's a great point. And Tumblr, it's just there's so much variation and I feel like there's a lot of you share a gif as easily as you share a picture or a video or whatever and just

it's like this really open. This is what I like about Peach. I've talked about Peach a few times. I don't know if you're using Peach or not. I'm not actually. Peach is interesting because it's like Tumblr meets Snapchat meets Twitter. If you could combine those things, but also there's other weird things that it does. Like it has games. Like weird, it's fucking weird, man. Peach is like, if like,

you're- Maybe I'll check it out. Peach is like if weird Twitter made a Twitter. Although at this point I've lost certainly any good opportunity to get a decent user name, so I should just quit. I mean, the user names of some of the people I know have are incredible. your name is so I should just quit. I mean, the user names that some of the people I know have are incredible. You know, the thing I like about Tumblr is that there's, I'm a big fan of negative space. I'm constantly, constantly. That's a great, I'm going to put the water negative space. I'm going to make sure that's on your gravestone.

Thank you. Negative space. I love Tumblr's like this one. We're talking about this isn't happiness because it's a, it's beautiful. It's a single column. And if they choose the right color for the background of the page, everything is just in service towards there,

and you don't feel like the design of what you're looking at is trying to rush you through consuming what's there. But simplicity is annoying in a way. I mean, I, my, no, look aesthetically, obviously, makes a lot of sense. But simplicity is simple, like I get it. You know, it's not an instant stupid thing to say, but the reality is, you know, of course simplicity works.

You know, what I think is harder to pull off, but really, really interesting and vital is complexity and in design. I mean, you know, of course. What do you think has been done really great job with that recently? Well, it's very little. I mean, you look at the things that I've been involved in.

Like if you look at the verge or Bloomberg, like even the end gadget redesign that we did, they're like highly, they're trying, they're an attempt at highly complex design with a sort of underlying organizational structure that makes it useful. I do think, but I look at design now, and I think, you know, I find simplicity to be vaccine. Let me ask you a question. Also, we get stuck in these lanes of production that are so obvious and so repetitive. What were you going

to ask me? I was going to say talking about design and simplicity and having to deal with complexity and what seems like a non-stop never increasing list of requirements. Never, ever. ever ever never never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever it never stops increasing right what do you think about the state of the article page on the internet today i think it's consuming news and media i think it's a bullshit i think it's horrible i think that in by the way i think that the biggest offense of medium and instant articles and google's you know what is the thing called it's like like rocket, rocket pages or whatever. The biggest offence is that it provides no freedom and no way to be truly visually creative. And I, you know, I think like, and this is, I mean, to be perfectly honest, goes to the

core of like everything I do and everything I've worked on and everything I will work on in the future. The the the open web is an unbelievable canvas and increasingly the colors with which we can paint are like we they're they're expanding. And yet and yet platforms like Facebook and by the way I think it's an article is really useful for a lot of reasons, but platforms like Facebook, and by the way, I think it's an article that's really useful for a lot of reasons, but platforms like Facebook and Medium, like think that they think that they're solving, I mean, they do solve this like one problem, but in solving that one problem, you limit. So you so greatly inhibit and limit like the possibilities of the canvas, that it's like, I think really damaging. I think that here's the thing. If we had a habit on the internet of taking, finding a good idea and saying like,

okay, for the moment, we'll ride this good idea. Platforms will ride this good idea, but we're gonna really actively get on making something better because we don't think this is like the permanent state. I mean, you see here people talk about iteration all the time, and you know, sure, Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook and all of this engineers talk about iteration and sure they iterate the product. But the reality is we get stuck in these valleys all the time

on the internet, these valleys of the way we do things, the way we think about things, the way things look. This is getting back to that simplicity thing that I was saying. You know, the way ads work, we get stuck in a fucking valley for 15 years and guess what? People hate it. And now we have to get out of the valley and everybody's scrambling and people are using ad blockers at any increasing rate. And there's a reason, because like we were in a valley,

we were fucking with people for a really long time and then they got wise to it. So, you know, all of these things, they create these potential valleys. And if we don't find a way to get out of them, I think it's very, very bad for, I think it's bad for us as people. I think it's bad for us as,

as if humanity is constantly trying to push itself forward and expand our horizons and figure out like what the next thing is. What troubles me most about, and I, you know, an instant article or, you know, mediums, like, you know, very clean, very simplistic interfaces that it inhibits creativity, and it inhibits, it doesn't,

it doesn't, it, it, dolls, it desire for exploration. So the state of the article, it's fucking terrible. It's terrible, everything looks the same. Everything reads the same. I mean, it's like, I got two words for you.

Write rail. Forget about the right rail. Well, the right rail, okay. Let me tell everybody a story that I've never talked about before. But I want to talk about it because this is very, because whatever I'm in LA and, you know, that non-emoji thing that's like, though, whatever, what is it called? Oh, the shruggy.

Shrug, shrug, that shruggy. I love the shruggy. That's what I'm doing right now. Web design, web, internet design has been fucking destroyed by an ad, which is referred to by designers. Can I guess what you're going to say? Can I guess the ad? Yeah, you know what I'm going to say.

It's the three by two. The three by two. The three by two is an ad. I don't think most people ever have thought about this. Probably not. I have to think about it constantly. As have I. The three by two is an ad that exists in the upper right hand corner pretty much of every web page that's ever existed. This is the ad. It's like the dawn of like of the internet. Right. This is the ad that's basically the square.

It's 300 pixels by 250 pixels. That's right. It's a three by two 50 years or three by two. Oh, it's three by two 50. Yeah, but it's you know, you see it everywhere. And the moment you put that on a web page, the moment you fucking stick that thing on a web page, the entire fucking design. This is this is when we were at Amstrung. I mean, everybody was designing Bloomberg. When we were designing it, we're doing the Bloomberg redesign. I was like the three by two. I mean, this is the same with the verge to look this is the thing that this is this is why We need to be blowing stuff up all the time And this is why instant articles bother me or like anything like it the three by two is dominated web design If you are monetizing via advertising the three by two must be there its viewability is really high everybody makes add

creative for the three by two. It's the most clicked of all of the things that aren't clicked. And by the way, you know, the upper right hand thing is always the thing. It's, but so, but what it does is immediately forces your page into this, it forces a system because it's there. And it has to be there. Well, set off a chain, a chain reaction

to design decisions, right? And it's there. Well, that's all for a chain reaction design decisions. Yes, and it's terrible. And the ad industry and publishers have been complicit in this deal. Right. Well, there are amazing beautiful ads out there that completely free up design and are better for advertisers and better for readers and bring the best of what the best advertising in print can be and is and used to be.

But the problem I think from in terms of business is always is like scale, right? And how long is it going to take for for it to achieve a scale where you can launch a website without three by two? It's basically like everybody is like, well, but the three by two is what we, you know, we've got inventory, you get inventory, we need to plug into it. We've got three by two is like, make it happen. I mean, look, it's dumb shit. It's the same dumb shit that that, I mean, look, the reality is could electric cars be much further along if somebody at some point, it said like, okay, we know we're like, we know we're like at the teeth of oil at the moment,

but that's an unsustainable thing, and we've got to figure something else out. You know, we would have amazing electric vehicles right now besides the Tesla. It's gonna be really cool to look in like 20, 25 years, to look back on right now and in hindsight, look at where we are with electric vehicles and oil and things like that.

Tom Randall, you remember Tom Randall? Of course, Tom Randall. Tom Randall, great talent. Phenomenal reporter at Bloomberg has just been doing amazing piece after piece about the rise of electric vehicles, the risks to that business, the path that it's on, visa v oil. If you're interested in electric vehicles and they're affect that business, the path that it's on, visa-v oil. If you're interested in electric vehicles and they're affect on oil and vice versa,

check out what Tom Randall's been doing at Bloomberg. It's not an official plug. It just sounds like a plug. I actually, it's funny that you mentioned that because it brings me back to something I want, we're talking about TSA pre-check, like in a full circle. I've had, so I've been in a bunch of Uber as well.

I've been in LA and something that I've noticed consistently is there are there are many uber drivers that at least I've had that are Armenian. Okay, like in LA like in LA, the vast majority we've gotten into conversations and we've ended up talking about like, oh, where are you from? I don't know, I mean, but what it was interesting, one of them was like, I was like, so tell me about like how you ended up in LA. And he was like, uh, basically like, well, I, uh, I went to the embassy and I was like, I want to move. And, and they asked me one question, uh, which was like, he had been studying in London. And they're like, what were you doing in learning? He's like, I was getting my master's degree.

And then they're like, okay. And they gave me a visa. And that was it. Wow. That was like the entire like, I was getting my master's degree and then they're like, okay, and they gave me a visa and that was it. Wow. That was like the entire conversation. I was like, that's pretty amazing. Because you hear about, you know, you would think if you listen to Donald Trump

or whatever or like anybody in the, in Paul, when Donald Trump's in politics, but you would think, well, one, Donald Trump would probably be very upset to hear that. But you would think it's very difficult to get into the country and we're making a very difficult, but it doesn't, it's apparently that's not the case.

Well, I think it probably depends, you know. I mean, whatever, I just think, I'm all four people come in here. I think like the more people, the better. I mean, because everybody who's fucking here isn't from here. Well, yeah, everybody, all of the... I've got Hamilton on the brain big time now, because I saw it a couple of weeks ago. Well, yeah, everybody. All of them. I've got, I've got Hamilton on the

brain big time now because I saw it a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. And it's like this whole country was founded by immigrants. Of course. I mean, it's so insane. Well, I'll be first off. It was taken from people who were here. That's the first thing. Can't forget that part by fucking immigrants who were like, I want to go there by people who are like, it seems good there. I want to go there. And it's like, yeah, that's the entirety of America, of the United States of America, sorry, nothing's heard of America. But like the idea that this idea that,

I mean, I'm not gonna get it, I'm not gonna go all the way down the rabbit hole on this, but like what people are really mad about is, and what they should be mad about. This is so interesting when I think about this is like the Bernie Sanders Donald Trump How they're like these weirdly these two sides of the same coin and almost in some cases are saying the same thing But you know Donald Trump talks about trade and trade policy a lot and so does Bernie Sanders about how like you know how

Companies that are corporations that are in America have been allowed to at least how the government has regulated what they can and can't do a lot of like the anger about immigration is actually anger about like jobs and business moving out of this country, you know, we're so mixed up about like there's so much there's so much confusion about how those things are connected, but at any rate my point getting back what I want what I want to say is, But at any rate, my point, getting back, what I want to, what I want to say is, obviously, the more people who are in this country who are not from this country, the better as far as I'm concerned. But, but you received that oil remodeling of this conversation with this guy, same guy that I was talking to, we were talking about Putin. Okay.

And he really liked, this is the, the Armenian Uber driver. The Armenian Uber driver. Okay. And he really liked him, really likes him. Like he's like, he's a great leader, usually tough. Okay. And I was like, we're talking about the future, sort of the future of Russia. And he's like, you know, they've got a lot of oil, you know.

And so that makes that puts Russia in a very powerful position. And I was like, yeah, but oil's over, you know, and it was like, we had a really just like this long conversation about it. And I don't think that he thought about that. And I don't think most people are thinking of it. But like, in the next 25 years, like, I really is. I mean, there is going to like oil is going to come to an end in terms of like our massive need for it. There's no thing right? No doubt in my mind that we're going to figure out how to do better battery tech. Right now, you've got more than one, you've got Tesla, you've got Chevy, you've got Nissan,

you've got more than one car company barreling towards producing electric vehicles in the $30,000 range with reasonable battery sizes, so useful distances. It's sort of, once they hit critical mass at the right battery size and the right price, that's when we might start to see a shift. You know, one of the things Tom wrote about, which is really interesting, is that every electric manufacturer gets,

I think it's 200,000 subsidies from the government they can hand out to customers, 200,000 cars worth. But it's not per model, it's per manufacturer. So Tesla is racing to get their, the Model 3, the affordable electric vehicle out for sale. Because right now, as people buy Teslas, they're burning through these subsidies. And if they are late in getting the Model 3 for sale at $35,000, then no more subsidies will be available, which means instead of it being a 35, or instead of it being possibly for some people

like a $25,000 EV, it'll be a $35,000 EV. And that's a huge, huge difference. And they desperately want to get the car out in time for there still to be subsidies available, because a lot of people sort of see that sweet spot that $25 to $30,000 range as the moment when EVs could start to go mainstream, assuming the infrastructure continues to keep up.

But isn't that also a question of policy? I mean, couldn't we hypothetically that policy could change and allow. And allow for more subsidies. I mean, I think that I do think that there's going to be a race at some point. And the government's going to be a part of this. I mean, if we want to get independent, I mean, listen, for the United States, getting independent of foreign oil is obviously very important. A big piece of that is EV technology. And's clear to me that I mean that is like

it's so very very clear that that is the future for automobiles. And like I will say, you know, Elon Musk, no matter what he does at this point, no matter what he ever does again, did the most brilliant thing in the world, which is like and by the way, did what Sony used to do and what Apple still does really well, he made this aspirational product that even if you can't buy it, like, look, there are things that are very expensive that people buy, that rich people buy, and not everybody's like, oh, I got to have that.

But he really made a product that was like, everybody wants it. Yeah, everybody wants one. And it's the Sony of 15 to 20 years ago was so awesome. Right, you know, like, well, I mean, I think if the Sony in the 80s, where they were kind of riding the Walkman wave, Oh, I had that yellow cassette tape Walkman.

Sure, they were all cassette tapes in the early days. But you know, they used to be this company that you remember like the Sony Trin and Tron. I've talked about this a million times. I remember like, God damn, I wish I could get one of those Sony TVs. They're so expensive. You know, like, but they're so good.

Their pixels are so tight or whatever the fuck was going on with the Sony TVs. You know, I don't know if they were better or not, like looking back, they probably weren't, but. They're so flat. But they were very, very good at were better or not, like looking back, they probably weren't, but they're so flat. But they were very, very good at messaging that they had this like aspirational, like they had a brand that you should aspire to own and have in your like your house. But any other point is like the Tesla thing is, is, is, is a spark like a wave and you

see it now like, like around here in L.A., where everybody drives, you know, in the affluent areas, they're all over the place. And like that, the trickled down effect of that is I think really strong. You know, I think that people in the, and when they make a cheaper car, but the reality is like, it just makes sense, just makes so much sense that we're going to move. We're going to shift towards that. What's so sad is that if you could have gone back and said, let's, let's stop like being addicted to this thing. and let's stop being addicted to the idea that it will be the thing that lasts forever. How much further would we be at this point?

And that's like the point about the kind of lock in and like the way we get stuck on things. You know, I think it's very important to not get too stuck. I mean, at this point, you know, it's like, yeah, electric cars, I'm very, I feel very certain that that's the future. But I definitely, my mind is open to the possibility that there's something else, you know? Right, I mean, you never know. Yeah, you never know,

but I think we're gonna, I think electric cars actually make a lot of sense. All right, how long have we been podcasting for? Let's see, we're at, oh, 52 minutes. We're at 52 minutes. I have another topic for you. Oh, yeah, lay it on me. I just wanna, I'm really trying to,

I've looked at my past shows, and it's like, I always end up at about like an hour 20. Yeah, I'm trying to see if it's gonna be a tight hour today. That's what I claim. But maybe 70 minutes. Well, there'll be some ads and some other things. There's a new trail. There's an outro. I don't want to be sure it'll be an hour 20. Yeah. I don't want to add eating into our content. Oh, what do you do? All right. What's the question? New Ghost Busters. Well, obviously extremely racist. That's the first thing I think we're talking about the trailer. I mean, it's a crazy thing I think we- Who's talking about the trailer?

I mean, it's a crazy, we just talk about, let's just be straight up for a second here. Let's hit it. There's three white, the brilliant white scientists, they're all like the best in their field, and then the black character. The black community. Yeah, and she's like,

oh, I work on, I'm a subway employee, and I know New York, and it's like, you know, and here's this funky car, and it's like, can't get me a fucking brick. Look, I like Paul Feeck, I think he's a really smart guy. I was a little bit more- like, you know, and here's this funky car and it's like, don't give me a fucking brick. Look, I like Paul Feeck. I think he's a really smart guy. I don't know. Honestly, I don't know how you are working on this movie

and not like, wait a second. I mean, that you wanted the fucking crazy thing is that Winston in the original Ghostbusters, I believe his character had a PhD. So we've gone backwards. I don't even know. I don't remember, but. Hold on, I'm gonna Google this just to make sure I'm not wrong,

but I'm pretty sure. Also, like, not for nothing, but, you know, that we have to have some kind of weird racial parody with the original movie, where it's like three white people on a black guy. I think like that's also, like, weirdly racist. You know, like, why couldn't it be two black people and two white people? Like, why does it matter that there's the one black person? Oh, interesting here.

Check this out. Check this out, Josh. In the original script for Ghostbusters, Winston Zedmore was intended to be the smartest and most capable of the Ghostbusters, a former Marine with multiple degrees and a PhD making him more suited for the job than the founding three Ghostbusters. However, in the final screenplay, none of these qualifications were mentioned. The changes that are discussed in detail in the commentary on the DVD of Ghostbusters, the explanation being Watson allowed the techno babble to be put into layman's terms. So he became a vehicle for translating the audience's avatar. Exactly. So, yeah, you know, that's probably,

but really it's probably just institutional racism doing things. Well, it's like, I think, the new Ghostbusters looks pretty fun. It's gonna be tons of fun. But I'm sort of depressed about it. Right. It's like, it's a missed opportunity, right? Every time something like this happens now in 2016,

it's a missed opportunity. I just, I mean, it's just a missed opportunity to right? Every time something like this happens now in 2016, it's a missed opportunity. I mean, it's just a missed opportunity to be a fucking normal, like act normal. You know, like that's the missed opportunity is like just everybody's the same. Like why do, like what is the, like obviously I'm not ignoring like the history of this, but at some point you're just like who fucking cares?

Like make the characters, you know? Like, and I mean like, but do it fairly, you're just like, who fucking cares? Like make the characters, you know? Like, and I mean, like, but do it fairly, do it like realistically, because that's not realistic. I mean, it's a bullshit trope. It's a trope that is like created by Hollywood that has been propagated by Hollywood, that it's something that it has like, there's no question.

I mean, look at the movies that Hollywood produces. I mean, not to get into the holoscarist thing, but it is pretty clear, you know, like, not just with, with black characters, but characters of any person of color, anybody who's not just a white person, like Hollywood has a really hard time representing them as a fully realized human being.

It's probably because all the people making the shit are a bunch of white people. You know, it's not even there. I don't have something to do. You don't realize they're part of like a, they're caught in a giant web of institutional racism that they can't possibly have to understand. Do you know for, do you know for a fact that they were, there was an intention to mirror? No, I don't know for a fact.

I don't know for a fact. I don't know for a fact. I don't know for a fact, but based on what I saw of the trailer, I mean, there's three of the Ghost Busters are white and then one is black and that was the way it was the other Ghost Busters movies. So I don't know. Like the built in racism aside, I will say that the trailer was phenomenal

for about the first 50 to 60% and then it really sort of lost me. It started out and it was really like great and original and interesting and then it just sort of lost me. It started out and it was really great and original and interesting and then it just immediately took a right turn into all these movie trailer tropes that just seemed to be all over the place. So the second half of the trailer really lucky enough.

Modern comedy, like modern comedy tropes. Exactly. Like people hitting people for no reason. Exactly. It's like, what's the update in the trailer with that? I agree, I'm not that excited about Ghostbusters. I mean, I never was though. Like I wasn't like, oh man, I can't wait for a new Ghostbusters.

Yeah. The original Ghostbusters is a great film, by the way. I mean, it's a timeless classic. I'm sure everybody should check it out. If you haven't seen the new Ghostbusters. Yeah, there's something else. Did you see the fan recut of the trailer on YouTube? No.

It was only about a minute long and it was much better. Hold on, I'm gonna try to find it for you. Well, I'm, yeah, I'm probably not gonna watch it, but I'm gonna go. Oh, come on, you got a minute to spare for this. I'm just, I just realized I'm very hungry. I only had breakfast today. You gotta eat, dude.

I gotta eat something. I'm gonna get a dominoes pizza delivered over here. Oh, please don't do that. I'm kidding, I'm joking. I'm gonna go to some cool silver like restaurant in order some farm to table something or other. What else should we do? Is there anything else we need to talk about? There's something else I wanted to talk about. What is it? Oh, I don't know. It was it was around the movie conversation around racism conversation. It was about institutional racism. No. I don't know. It's gone. It's gone. 10 Cloverfield Lane. You haven't seen it. I have not seen the movie yet. I've seen the trailer. John Goodman.

I'm excited. John Goodman. Anytime I see him get hyped up, I'm excited. First off, people are saying it's a great movie. Second, I heard John Goodman on Howard Stern. Okay. I didn't know a couple of things about him. He's sober for eight years. Did you know that? Good for him. Recovery and alcoholic. I didn't know that. And things about him. He's sober for eight years. Did you know that? No good for him. We're covering alcoholic. I didn't know that and he said that he thinks that he thinks that the the Cohen brothers kind of don't want to work with him because he was sort of a dick when he was drinking like on set. Oh, which is interesting, which I didn't know anything about. But you know, also very very you I don't know. I guess But you know, also very, very, I don't know, I guess maybe you might assume this by John Goldman, totally kind of shy,

very, very humble, unbelievably sweet guy. We'll say to him, talk. I'm gonna, I'll seek that interview. I don't really care for most of what Howard Stern does. I think all of this stuff is like really childish and stupid. Except his interviews are incredible. Why do you say this? Because he's just great. He's great at interviewing.

He just has notes how to have a conversation with somebody who's like, could be the biggest celebrity in the world and just bring them down to a very human level. Very, very entertaining shit. I mean, I highly recommend, I re up my serious subscription because I was sick of trying to find music on. I subscribed to titles, Spotify and Apple Music currently. Title, really? Yeah, because I wanted to hear the new Kanye record. Oh, God.

Oh, that's what I want to talk about. This is not related to any of the other stuff, but it was in my head earlier that I wanted to bring up because I've been listening. There's this kid named Rory. Have you heard of Rory? No, but I think I saw you tweet about that. I tweeted about Rory. You gotta listen to his record.

I think it's called All We Need. All right, I'll look for that. It's fucking amazing. Like, it's like, if you took, so he's like 18 years old, first off. It's like, if you took the flaming lips and like Baroque took like the flaming lips and like Baroque pop from the 60s and

Kanye And like put them in a blender Really it's so weird and sounds like a very interesting It's also like someone's also like kind of techno. Oh Shitty careful with that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This music's just out on a whole other level. All right. Now, it's not spelled like you would normally. No, it's not. It's spelled R-A-U-R-Y. Important detail for the listeners.

Okay. Very important detail. So here's my music recommendation. My film recommendation is in the realms of the Unreal. My music recommendation is Rory's new record, which I believe is called All We Need. Can you just check that? Can you fact-check that for me? One sec, Rory, All We Need.

Let's see here. Let's go pick up your hand on the cover. That's it, All We Need. Okay, and what was another recommendation? Well, now that you've done, we've sort of summarized our on this good, I'm gonna wrap up every episode with this sort of thing.

My movie documentary, or my movie recommendation documentary is Finding Vivian Mayor. Okay. And my music recommendation is actually, last night I heard the New York Philharmonic perform Messian's Turingalila Symphony, which is only the second time in my life I've gotten to hear it performed live.

It's a massive orchestra with a solo piano and a solo owned Martino, so Google this. It's basically, I believe it's a predecessor to the Theraman. It's a sound, especially in an orchestra like nothing else you've ever heard before. It's a tremendously difficult piece to put together, so it's not done live very often. Olivier Messier, Turengolile Symphony, go find a recording by a major orchestra from a big city and listen to it and it will blow your mind. Okay, that's about 80 minutes long. You're going to have to send me all of that so I can put it

in the description of this episode because okay, I'll do that. And just nobody can spell anything that you just said. I know. It's impossible. Well, I mean, Rory, I mean, his name is... Rory's tough too. I mean, you know, he's throwing us for a loop. I mean, that's record. I'm telling you, I listen to... I was actually speaking to going back to Venice. I went into a shop in Venice called Vinyl, which is a great store. And then they sell vinyl. They sell record players. They sell amps.

They sell headphones. They sell records. And it's very modern. And I sat down and this Rory record was on one of the turntables. And I listened to it in headphones. And it's like, it's like really the things is interesting about is like he does a lot of really interesting based stuff. Like a lot of the music is focused on on bass like phone like like the bass is like the lead instrument in a lot of the songs. Yeah. And so it's like, it's like through a good amp and on a turntable and through good headphones, it's like fucking thick. It's like really, really gooey. And I have to say, we're at two things, like when I was listening to this, like, wow, this music

is incredible, like really smart and different and interesting. And two, like that, I need to listen to more music in that setting, like a really good amp, good turntable and good headphones. Yeah, man. Because you gotta give the music the setting that it deserves. I mean, the bottom on this, like just listening to it, it's like so, it's just gooey, like so thick, so gooey, so like just getting, like in the back of your brain, you know.

And it has really good. Look, for any, if you, for everybody who cares about how their music sounds, you should Google the death of high fidelity. And that'll take you to a PDF of an article from Rolling Stone. I think it was in Rolling Stone, gosh, in 2007, I'm looking at it right now. And the headline is the death of high fidelity

and the deck is in the age of MP3's sound quality is worse than ever. And this was nine years ago. Yeah. And I think things have only gotten worse since then. Well, it's hard to say, I mean, but what I can say is that record on a turntable in headphones sounds really incredible.

And it just reminded me that there is something better than like a 96K MP3 that's streaming. You bet your ass there is. All right, and I think it's a great place to leave it, Michael. Okay. This was of course, uh, as always, a great conversation. But I think I honestly think this was one of our best conversations. Look, when we come in professionally, look, when we come in without an agenda, you creates the opportunity for magic to happen. Wow, this is exactly why we need to focus our attention out of instant articles and on to the open web because like like this conversation, not having an agenda can create perhaps

the most beautiful art of all. I agree. The art of conversation. I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about. But I feel like I got somewhere with that last bit. I think that was good. And I was just pretty meaningful. You know, if you made it this far in the podcast,

do yourself a favor and don't tweet about it. Just think about it. No, no, no, no, no, you could tweet, definitely tweet about it. That's all right. You got a brand to worry about. This conversation needs to get out to the world. It needs to be heard on vinyl, to a great amp in headphones.

There you go. We should put these on vinyl. I'm gonna look into that. How much do I have? You should do a yearly release of like, this hits. How many financial sense if I took all of the money, any of the money I'm making from sponsors,

and just spend it on creating vinyl versions of these podcasts? Well, you could do like a Wu-Tang thing, and only make one pressing, and it's Screly. And maybe Mark Screly can buy it. Maybe I can get it. He probably would.

He probably would. He tweeted at me once. I could get it. He wanted it. You know, this is our opportunity, Michael. Well, you know, we're both think-fluencer, so. OK. All right, let's wrap it up. Michael, thank you again for joining me on tomorrow.

Just my distinct pleasure. Yeah. And you'll have to come back. You know, I will. Well, that is our show for this week. We'll be back next week with more tomorrow, of course. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best. Though I understand that Slimer just showed up at your house. And Slimer's acting really, really racist. you