Tomorrow - Episode 47: Has Josh Made a Horrible Mistake?

Episode Date: April 4, 2016

On today's Tomorrow, Josh ponders the meaning of his $1000 deposit on the Tesla Model 3. Did he make a wise investment? Is Elon Musk's super (and super affordable) dream machine all that it appears? Is the electric car revolution just beginning? And most importantly, how long will it take Josh to actually get his car? Friend of the show / Bloomberg Digital Managing Editor Michael Shane stops by to help Josh answer these questions, and many many more. Some example topics: Is virtual reality stuck at the Palm Treo stage? Does 'Batman v Superman' signal the end of comic book movies? And will Josh hold a grudge against someone? All these questions and more are not answered in any meaningful way. But you have to listen. Because the power of Christ compels you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow, I'm your host, Joshua Tupulski. Today on the podcast, we discuss income inequality, the end of comic book films and grudges. I don't want to waste one second, so let's get right into it. My guest today is one of my favorite people in the entire world. He's a beautiful man, he's a sexy man, he's a man with strong opinions and a strong voice and a strong sense of what it's right and what it's wrong. I'm of course talking about my good friend, Michael Shane, Michael thank you for being here. I'm thrilled to be back.

Yeah, it's so good to have you back on the show. Here I am. You're one of my favorite people to talk to. Did you know that? I appreciate that. And that's why I like having you on. Also, you know, you don't, you never go against me too hard, which I like. You know, somebody, somebody, it disagrees with me. I cut about in my life completely.

I know. Well, look, it's your podcast. It's my gay god damn right. It's my podcast. That's what I like to hear. You see, agreeable already. If you so much has crossed me, one Iota, you're dead to me. You're out of my life forever. Actually, I'm not a grudge holder. I think a lot of people in this world tend to hold

grudges. Life's too short, man. Well, I don't know if life's too short. I just don't. I just like, do you have them come across a grudge that is in your opinion worth holding. It's just like a grudge is an exactly how I describe. Hold on a second, I want to, I have to do something. You're going to hear a beeping noise, just disregard it. All right. You hear kind of a motor, you hear a motor, disregard the motor as well. What's that? Don't worry about it.

It's not important. Oh, okay. I'm just going to program this machine here one second That's a little something. You're gonna edit this out right? No, I'm leaving everything in this is an all-in This is a this is a I want people to this is the the tomorrow experience the way it was meant to be one take one kill One take one kill. That's right one shot. That's all I need when you get in the crosshairs of my sniper rifle Boom, you don't know what hit you. You don't know because I'm a very good shot and you're dead. Anyhow, so there's a bunch of stuff to talk about that we want to discuss, that I want

to discuss with you. I want to talk about the first thing, the most important thing that happened this week. Okay. Tesla Model 3. I mean, first time- Did you order one. I did not. My brother.

My brother's a little. My brother's a little. Yeah, but I don't know. You don't know where you're gonna be in a couple of years and believe me, it's gonna be a couple of years before you get one. No, no. You maybe, you maybe in, you know,

South of France. You may need a luxury vehicle with South of France. I don't wanna think that far ahead. I don't know why. I don't know why. I guess I didn't feel like loaning Elon Musk $1,000 interest-free for a couple of years. You know what?

But my brother put his name in. I'm just not at a point in my life where I can even think about owning a car. But I will tell you, I will tell you this. If I wasn't living in New York, if I was living in a place where I would have a car, and I knew I was gonna have a car in two to four years, no matter what, I would absolutely positively

have put my name down and given them the deposit because I think it was really cool. But you, Craig, I'm wrong, you live in Brooklyn. I do. I mean, I know a lot of people in Brooklyn with a car. I had a car in Brooklyn. I know, but I'm not in the car crowd in Brooklyn. Well, I mean, you could be if you put the down payment

on the test with Model 3. It's true. I wanna talk about some things. Did you put a deposit? I actually ended up, 3. I wanna talk about some things. I wanna- Did you put a deposit? I actually ended up, yes, I ended up putting it. I had a few of you. I actually waited too long, in fact, and I'm very upset about it.

I'm just gonna punch up some Model 3 facts here. Oh, my clicky keyboard, check this out. The Model 3 deposits. Now these are just deposits, doesn't mean everyone's gonna buy one, but at this point, the number of deposits, the number of reservations, is twice as many as the annual sales of the BMW 3 series and three times as many as the Mercedes

C class. Now that is pretty amazing, isn't it? Well, it's so much cooler than those cars. It's not even funny. I mean, I know. The car is, this is a car from the future. I mean, listen, if they even ever ship this, I'll be very impressed, okay? Because I feel like, I feel like between now and the end of one is the end of 2017, they claim as when they're gonna start making these.

They have to ship it. No, they have to, but maybe they won't. Maybe they'll go out of business. Maybe they'll sell GM and GM will be like, oh, we're refunding everybody's thousand dollars, we decided not to do it. But who really knows? But here's what I can say.

First off, this is far and away the nicest looking Tesla. Like, far and away, this is the nicest looking car that the company has made, which I think is interesting considering it's the cheapest car. I love this. I'm like, when I first saw the front,

I was like, what do I think about this? And the more I looked at it, I'm like, it's so weird the way it just stops in the front of the car. It's like they just cut off a part of the model. And they're like, yeah, that's good. I think it's fantastic. Like, what do you need? You don't need a grill. I don't need a grill. No, right. We don't need a grill if you don't have an engine, right? I don't know if that's the policy. Have you ever seen the engine by the Tesla engine? No, I've never seen it in person. It's completely bizarre looking.

I mean, you think of it, so when you think of an engine, you think of a car engine. Yeah, with pistons and grease and noise. I hold that, yeah, and belt and all this shit. Yeah. The engine of a Tesla just looks like a little, kind of like a fat cylinder. It's like really quite strange looking.

I mean, it doesn't look like anything that you would perceive as an engine. And it's very cool and it's very different. So listen, this is a couple of things. Let's talk about, let's talk about the model three for a second because when I watched the announcement and I tweeted some stuff about it afterwards, I basically said like this is the beginning of the end

for gas powered vehicles. for gas powered vehicles. For gas powered vehicles. At least for gas powered cars. I think that it's going to be impossible. First of, I think, our big hurdle of course is battery tech. But for people living in urban areas who are commuting every day or people who are just driving around town or going on short trips,

I mean look, 215 miles is nothing to laugh at. And. No, it's, I mean, it's not gonna get you across the country, but for your average commute. Well, I mean, if you can hit a supercharger every 200 miles, you'll be okay, you know. Yeah. And the question is like, how long does supercharge take,

you know? How long does it take to get the fastest charge? I'm not sure. We should know the answer to this. We should. Let's see. Every time I look at the map of test the charger network Every time there's a lot more of them and I'm really surprised. I'm gonna do a Google search right now for Supercharging. You can hear the One second. You can hear the click of my mouse, of course. I'm all old school here in my office setup. I got a mouse. I have a, I have a keyboard. I have a very wide monitor. And I'm looking at these pictures and videos of lines at Tesla dealership all over the world. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. I mean, no one has,

you've never seen this for a car before. The supercharger just charged the Model S in minutes instead of hours. I want to know exactly how many hours, how many minutes? Here we go. You ready? They can provide 170 miles of range in as little as 30 minutes. Now, that ain't really that brief. It's a quick lunch break. It's a lunch break, but I mean, you know, listen, I'm driving to Pittsburgh from New York. Right. That's a think about a 400 mile drive. Sure, that's we pull over somewhere.

You know, how am I doing it? Is there a map? Is there a special map? Let me see something here. Actually, Google Maps, Google maps, super chargers. There's got to be something in the software card that makes it really easy to find a supercharger. But here we go. Interactive Tesla supercharger map.

Ooh. From Tesla Roddy. This doesn't look very helpful to me. But I'm looking for, I want to get directions and then know where the superchargers are. There must be a map like this, right? and look very helpful to me. But I'm looking for is I want to get directions and then know where the superchargers are. There must be a map like this, right? Yeah, I'm sure there's a map on the Tesla website. It's actually, actually, hang on, hang on. I've got something here.

Look at this. Here you go. A couple of resourceful guys. I'm so sorry to anybody listening. You think that they would provide this. You know, you find something for me? I found a static image. That's not helpful. No, no, I need to,

I wanna be able to map a route and say, all right, here's where I'm going. Get me there, what charges do I hit? Right, what charges do I hit? How could they not have this technology built into the cars? I'm sure they do. I don't see a supercharger anywhere near Pittsburgh. I can tell you that

Actually, there's one in cranberry township, which is just about 20 miles north of Pittsburgh Well, I can tell you right here here's 76. There's one in Somerset PA beautiful There's one in Allen town very nice. Oh, this is very simple. Look at this I can hit one in Allen Town, very nice. Oh, this is very simple. Look at this. I can hit one in Allen Town, or I can hit one in Somerset. I think, I'll be honest with you, it's gonna be tough. I gotta have to hit that one in Allen Town, which is a bummer, because who wants to go to Allen Town?

You've heard the song. Okay, anyhow, so let's get back to what I'm saying. Now that is the big, that is the big stumbling block right for it. Right, well look, I think it may sound like a random number, but in my completely amateur opinion, the magic number for range is really something probably more like 500 miles. I think 500 is the magic number

because most cars are like, you can do, you know, like modern cars, you can do 500 miles on a tank of gas. And I think you think, okay, well, 500 miles is, I have an expectation I'm going to stop and refuel at some point. Yeah. Around 500 miles, that's a really, but they're not anywhere near that. Now, here's the thing.

This is the, to me, the magic thing that needs to be unlocked, the magic trick that needs to be done, which is like, what is it? Give it to me, what is it? We got the battery technology, it has to be unlocked, the magic trick that needs to be done, which is like, what is it? The battery technology has to be way, way better. And to me, like anybody right now, if I were going to do some kind of tech startup, I would be thinking, how can I somehow work on batteries? How can I get into battery tech?

Because I feel like when somebody cracks the battery technology or charging technology that like is either instantaneous charging or battery tech that has crazy capacity, I mean that person, that company, they're going to be so rich. Well, I'll tell you what we need to get. We need to get to the point where you can charge electric vehicles via inductive charging and it's simply a common feature of parking lots everywhere. You pull into an inductive charging spot and while you're car sitting there, you're good to go and someone's going to pay for that electricity.

But also, I mean, solar, can we not find some way to do the solar panel that's like a 6X or 10X efficiency? Because when you do that, the thing is about solar is they're very inefficient. You have a lot of them in a very large space and it's for a very long time. If you could cover these cars in some kind of solar technology, at least the roof of the car and do something, because that's when you think about that, if we can really find a way to turn solar into like a highly efficient form of energy generation, that it could be like a, then maybe you never have to refuel. Yeah. You know, you just need the power of the sun.

Hey, check this out. Just like Superman and Dark Knight Returns. Spoiler alert. Tesla charging stations in New York City are almost about to outnumber gas stations. That's a bullshit number because there are like no gas stations in New York City. And as a person who's suffered the panic

and terror of trying to fuel a empty tank in the middle of New York, I can tell you, I mean, listen, it's much easier to put an electric charger in somewhere, you know. Oh, I'm going to get, oh, of course, absolutely. I'm sure that's the goddamn case. But now that you're out living outside of the city, you should be able to gas up at a very leisurely pace anytime you need to.

That's right. I'm living outside of the city and outside of the construct of your pathetic urban mindset. I'm living on the edges. The luxury. That's where I need to be. Close to the edge. That's where I do my best work. Yeah. At any rate. So look, I think the Model 3, I don't know if I'm actually on the body in the car. I mean, here's the thing. I'm so far in line, this is my big question about the Model 3, is I put my thousand bucks in

when they were at like 200,000. Yes. I mean, if they start producing these in, let's say, November of 2017, for the sake of the argument, we don't really know how many they're gonna be able to make. We don't really know how many they're going to be able to make. We don't really know how quickly they're going to be produced. But here's the other thing to keep in mind is that, and this Elon Musk tweeted this, is that putting your name in for a deposit for a reservation gives you priority within your geographical area.

So even if you were near the end, if you're near the front in your geography, I don't think that's gonna be the case. And that's what he says. There are, where I live, it's lousy with Teslas. There are Teslas everywhere, okay? Unbelievable. I'm not bragging. I'm not bragging.

These people disgust me, but I will tell you what doesn't disgust me as they're Teslas. And no, but look, I mean, I don't know that, and also I'm in New York. So, what do we say in my geographic area? It's, I mean, yeah, in Alaska,

like maybe if I was 200,000, but I lived in Alaska, I might be like, hey, but that still doesn't make any sense, because it's like, why wouldn't you prioritize by whenever the first thing came in and wherever you're shipping to first? So, presumably, it's like California, right? They're producing them in California, right?

I don't know where they're building. You don't know the answer to this. I don't. Where's the gigafactory? Money, I'm more information for me. I told you specifically, I said, Michael, before we start this podcast, I want you to have all the facts about Tesla and the Model 3 that you can gather. It's outside Reno to Nevada.

Well, close enough. You know what I'm saying. Yeah. They're going to serve the West Coast first. But here's the thing. So I just want to know, has anybody made an estimate on if you're number 250,000? When could you reasonably expect to get your car? I think the only people that know that work at Tesla and at this point, even they probably

don't know for sure. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty crazy when you think about it. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty crazy when you think about it. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty crazy. Now, do you think there's going to be a version of... I don't know if they talked about this or not. I didn't watch the whole thing.

Do you think there's going to be a version of this car that has a higher capacity? Let's put it this way. The sticker price is $35,000 before subsidies. I would imagine that the vast majority of the Model 3s that roll off the lot into customer hands will have a sticker price significantly higher than that based on upgrades and bells and whistles. I mean, I'll be, I'm just interested. Could be battery capacity.

I don't know. But I don't think that many are actually going to be bought at the $35,000 range. I think most people will buy more expensive versions. So you do that any car. I mean, here's the things I'm interested in knowing. If there's going to be a higher range version, and if there's going to be a version with four-wheel drive, they make a, they make a, they make a, so I have an answer for you on that. The base model three will be real rear-wheel drive with dual motor all-wheel drive optional. That's what I'm going to be getting.

And Elon Musk says that even a real-wheel drive will have great traction on ice due to fast torque response of the Tesla drive drive. Where are you getting this from? I'm just reading his Twitter feed. He's been tweeting a lot of like answers to consumer questions. Yeah, we'll see you up to. I haven't been checking it out. Let me see what's going on in his feed.

So that's very important to me. I mean, I we live in a place obviously it's really snowy. So you want the all wheel drive? Of course. I want the all wheel drive. Only a fool would get a rear wheel drive personally. It's not far as I'm concerned. Maybe I guess we live in California or something. You don't have to worry about it. We're just on one season. Yeah. I'm going to the threat. Here's a tweet that he sent out two days ago, definitely going to need to rethink production planning. Yeah, that's not encouraging. You know, that's like, I mean,

they were either they're being bashful about it, but. I don't think they're being bashful. It's a company that is known as a history of terrible delays on cars. I mean, the Model X was supposed to go into production, I think, in like 2013. Right. Well, here's something interesting. Do you imagine? I mean, can you imagine having... I mean, this car could be delayed three years, it could happen easily. And that's like,

they're going to screw themselves with that. Well, look, as excited as everyone is about this car, get this. I was... People at the office were talking the other day. I guess it was Friday, and they were saying that short interest in Tesla stock is very high. Yeah, of course. Possibly at an all-time high. I don't remember for sure, so nobody caught me on that. But a lot of people, as many people are betting

that this will be a huge, that Tesla is still in for trouble as our saying Tesla is gonna be incredibly successful. Right. So here's something interesting going back to what I was saying. Elon Musk thinks that the average selling price, like what they predict to be the average mix of options, will probably be $42,000. Yeah, I saw that, but which is fine,

which is okay, people are gonna get the sport package. There you get. I don't give these people who are like, it's zero to 60 and whatever. It's like, who do you get? You gotta get the tape deck So you can put play all your cassettes. That would be fucking cool actually if you would be tight If you give a cassette deck in there, that'd be great

And what are the options to have a CD player when we make a bit of a six-dissed CD changer in there? Yeah, who knows I also want to know if there's a way that I can heavily tint The roof part of it because I'm because I have a Q5 and now a Q5 which has the same thing which is like the whole roof is glass. They look tinted in the pictures. And I, well yeah, but I had them extra tinted mine because even though it has a thing inside that kind of like screens out the sun, I'm I hate light from sunroofed and then into it. I like the idea of it being open. I just don't like it being super clear. Yeah, I love the way it's continuous.

It's beautiful car. I mean, it's- And now that I'm looking at it more, I gotta say, I'm into the lack of grill on the front. No, it's great. It's great. I mean, listen, most cars you're discussing. I mean, I just have to say, just like tennis shoes. Car design in general is a garbage five.

Two things that are disgusting to me, sneaker design and vehicle design. Like I think if you look, and I think that they have a lot in common actually, but they are all, they are just most sneakers and most cars are disgusting looking. And I mean, like, top of the line, like Mercedes,

I think they are ugly as shit. I mean, they are really unattractive cars. BMW makes an okay looking car. Volvo makes a really good looking car. I have to say, Volvo's making this station wagon, which is a station wagon version of their last SUV, which I find very attractive, very attractive. But most of those parts are discussed. And then you look at shoes and it's the same thing. All shoes are...

Now, have you ever designed your own shoes? You ever done Nike ID or anything like that? No, but I did just get a new pair of Nike shoes, which I talk about them. What kind of which model do they have? They are a, let me look up the exact model number. I want to get this right. I don't want, because I know there's going to be some, I know there's going to be some people listening

like Sam Shaffer is going to come after you. You've got to watch Shaffer, I was just going to say, Sam Shaffer is going to come after you. Sam Shaffer is going to be listening. I do love a nice solid pair of Air Force ones. Can't beat us. Well, let me tell you what they are. If I can find my listing, are they like a special one?

They're going to run Air Jordan one retro, low top, low top OG white and midnight navy. They're sick. I tweeted about them. I must say, they're like old school air Jordans. Oh nice. Yeah, those are definitely very used. I also got an insane pair of Adidas stance myths, which I just got them, which I have not put on yet.

But let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me set you up. Also, just like these are definitely you. You think? I guess anyone's, you know, for anyone who's listening, Josh, trademark Josh sneakers are generally low tops, and they're generally mostly white. That's right.

Now, I went a little bit off the reservation with this pair that I bought. I'm going to show you. I'm going to send you a link here. Okay. I'm just trying to think of how is the Skype is the worst application. Oh, just use a i-message.

No, no, no, I got it. Here it is. Now, these are, these look like they've been hit with a Photoshop. Oh my God. Colorize filter. And they're, they're fucking amazing. I mean, they look in person. It's unreal how they look.

Wait, now is this picture under a black light? The black light with a black. Yeah, they have a reflective coating. I think if you take any kind of photography, like flash photography or anything, they're completely the black, the black. Yeah, they have a reflective coat. And I think if you take any kind of photography, like flash photography or anything, they're completely coated in this reflective thing. Oh, wow. But these are like,

these are not, not timid shoes. They're not timid. I like them a lot. I don't know. There's something about this color that just speaks to me. But what's really cool about them is they look like, okay, they look, they don't look like a shoe that has, most shoes look like,

though they're like a set of colors put together. Yes. This shoe looks like a shoe that, like you're looking at it and it's been filtered. It's like, it has a colorized filter on it. Like it doesn't look like they have, particularly picked a color for any part of it. It looks like it was all hit with the exact same color.

And there's slightly different tones. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, no, I see it like with the, so it's like the leather patch. I'll see if you look at the picture from the rear of this shoe. Yeah, it's really, I'm sure everybody's really enjoying this. Now go find the Stan Smith.

I'll tell you the model number, S80251, Stan Smith. Anyhow, I have a pair of other of white stands myths which are actually really similar to those Nike's. I'll never forget that when I interviewed Balmer for the Engage at Show, he talked to me backstage, you might have been there, I know you weren't there. You know, we didn't know that. Before my time.

Before your time. He talked to me for a pretty extended period of time about my shoes, which were Stan's mess. Now, have you ever owned a pair of BAPES? BAPES shoes? No. I had a lot of BAPES stuff, which I bought in Japan in, let's say, the year 2000, maybe 2001, before bathing ape was something you could get everywhere. I mean, it was very, very hard to come by. I went ape shit, no pun intended, but I went ape shit

when I went to Japan the first time. Yeah, I mean, it's good time. Now, do you remember hearing about the giant auction of Star Wars memorabilia at Sotheby's earlier this year? Was that James LaValle's stuff? No, I didn't know. No, it was all stuff that belonged to the guy who founded BAPE. Nego?

Yeah, because apparently he was, he had to, you know, it was to help him get out of bankruptcy or something. Oh, really? Because there's stuff. Oh, here it is. Let me see. Let me look at this. I'm looking right now.

This is incredible. Look at this. Look at this art. Yeah. A bunch of cars, a bunch of cause paintings, a bunch of insane watches. I mean, the stuff that this guy sold is insane. Yeah.

It's like no wonder you didn't have any money. This is really amazing. This is a couple of years ago. Yeah. Actually, Heisen Abradi did a most expensive items. Well, he sold a lot of stuff. This is sort of sad, actually. Yeah. I mean, some cool stuff, but you can imagine. I mean, he sold a watch for the watch, sold for $190,000. Oh my gosh. The estimated price between 96 and 128,000. I mean, I just don't understand the point of a watch like that. I mean, I understand the point of it. He had a war haul, he sold for a 345,000.

No, I'm sorry, he had two war hauls. Three and one for, he sold for 345,000, another one sold for four hundred and seven thousand Wow, so but it's sad. You know he had to he had to get out of debt Do we know that for sure? I mean, I believe he was For sure in bankruptcy. Oh wait. Here's a different one. Here's the Star Wars stuff This is I don't think this is interesting listening to if you're listening to this right now

But I recommend you want to change topics but I recommend you do want to change topics I recommend you do some Google search and on these collections No, I yes, I want to change topics obviously, but anyhow getting back to what we're doing with the model three I want to get back to the model three so okay I think that I think I really do think this is a this marks like Attorney point, but I also have to say well I don't know if it's a turning point, but I also have to say... Well, I don't know if it's a turning point, but it could be the beginning of the thing

that it's turning point. I think it's turning point, because a $35,000 car, now that's not an average price of a car. Right. Most people buy much cheaper cars. Let's just put that out there. But there is a range of luxury cars. Yes.

And very nice like non-luxury, but like, you know, the higher end, Honda's, the higher end, Toyota's, the higher end, Volkswagen's. Hey, now check this out. In 2013, the average price of a new vehicle was around $32,000, according to Kelly Blubo. Okay, that's in 2013. That was 2013. That's interesting, but you have to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to That was 2013. That's interesting, but you have to be the average.

I mean, if they're arriving at the average based on the high and low of the market, I mean, that sort of makes sense. I mean, I understand it. It's an average, but I do think, but the point. The point or what the median is. But the point is there's a huge amount of cars being sold around this price. Yes. And it's the sweet spot.

And almost none of the merr's cool is this. I mean, I would take none of the merr's cool is the model's this. I would take none of the mirrors cool as the models were. Yeah, I would agree with that. That is that true. And my assumption is, if this car is built like the Model A says built and the Model X is built, they are really, it'll be a really, really good car. Like not just that it's an electric car,

but it'll be a really good car with a smooth ride, with a quiet cabin, with like lots of great features. I mean, I think that, I think that, you know, great acceleration blah, blah, blah. You know, I think that we can't discount the fact that this isn't just about like, you know, an electric, an affordable electric car, but like the model S is considered a really great car amongst the Mercedes and the BMWs and the Audi's of the world. I mean, this is a better car than whatever the equivalent Mercedes is basically. So I think that's really important. But I do think that this is a moment where the Chevy Bolt by comparison, which is this like $30,000 car

the GM is making. Yeah. It's like laughably designed next to this. Now I actually like cars that are kind of like weird bubbles. Right. But you know, these cars side by side. The, well look, I think the thing that's important is that Tesla won't be able to do this by itself. I think we talked about this last time I was on or the time before that, but what's really

going to flip the scale on this is when not just Tesla, but the other car makers, and there are not a small number of them, but with the other car makers also successfully hit that sweet spot and get something mass market that everybody loves. You start getting enough electric cars on the road to displace purchase of gasoline and things like that. When all these companies get there, we reach critical mass, then we will really turn a corner. Tesla might be the catalyst to finally get people excited, but I don't think Tesla of the car company will be able to do it. They're not going to buy any. It's unlikely they're going to be, I mean, in some way they may end up being the apple

of this of the car world, which is like, you know, they're making a lot of money and they're highly innovative, but they're not necessarily selling the most of anything. You know, I think that, well, I mean, Apple sells the most of a lot of things, but I think that- But here we are in 2016 and every smartphone is a touch screen smartphone. I mean, they said, that's right. I mean, the iPhone is not the most sold smartphone, but it is the most influential smartphone. And certainly, the profit margin on the phone is very good for Apple. So I think that, you know, I can see a Tesla holding a position like that in the market until, I mean, these things are commonplace and then it might not matter.

The battery tech is really going to be the place where someone's gonna have to have a breakthrough. And that breakthrough is gonna be very meaningful. If I were a, I mean, I'm sure they don't think like this, but if I were a car company, I would be putting every resource I could possibly find into figuring out the 500 mile battery. You've got to get to the point where you've got parity in terms of range with a tank of gasoline and you've got to get to the point where refills or is charging your battery in terms of ease is that parity with finding a gas station.

Once you do that, it's over. Do you have, I mean, I've talked to people, they're like, you'll never, you know, you'll never tell me away from my combustion engine. Do you, sir, any appeal to you? I'm just curious. I never really, I never combustion engine. I mean, I like motorcycles. I like, I mean, I kind of like cars,

the engine means nothing to me in a car. I don't even think of it. I like motorcycles because I think that they can be aesthetically very beautiful and technologically very interesting. I had a pretty normal childhood, had my parents had cars the whole time we were growing up, but I have no built-in loyalty to combustion engines whatsoever and doesn't occupy an emotional space for me. I really couldn't care less what kind of engine is in my car. Other than that, I would prefer that it's

cool, and preferably doesn't destroy the planet. Right. And so I feel like, so to me when I'm in my car, I'm never like, the only time I think about the engine is, can I accelerate fast enough to get somewhere? Or do I hear the engine working, which to me is not a great sound. So you don't like to hear it changing gears and everything? I mean, I prefer not to hear the engine working if I... I mean, my... Yeah, my interest in the car is like,

what I want out of the car ride is quietness, smoothness, and confidence. Yeah. I'm not looking for like a thrill. I'm not trying to like, you know, I'm not trying to like get a direction from how fast my car goes. Right. That doesn't, that just doesn't do it for me. Even on the motorcycle, it's not like in a rousing experience to like hear the, I actually kind of hate the sound of a motorcycle and shoot a lot of ways.

Like I would, I actually on my triumph, I want to get acquired or muffler because I, it sort of is annoying to me. There are other reasons why you want sort of a loud bike, but that's a whole different conversation. Right. No, but I hear what you're saying. I have never been connected to a car in that sort of like visceral way, you know, like what you're referencing with the power of the engine and the thrill of taking corners. I totally, I know that there are people who really love that. That's totally legitimate. But for me, which probably won't surprise anybody, that's never been part of my experience with transportation.

Yeah, I mean, that's so anyhow. So maybe there can be people who are just like, I can't handle it. But to me, it means nothing. I just want, and I do think, I do think that the Model 3 is, it's a real watershed moment. I really do, I think that,

I think the pre-orders are interesting those numbers you just gave are tremendously meaningful, I think, and of course the question is, how many people follow through and how quickly they can get this thing into market. But I think it says that there is a tremendous hunger and an excitement about this kind of vehicle. Yeah, I mean, look, it's really simple.

When was the last time anybody anywhere ever lined up for not even to buy a car, but for the opportunity to reserve an opportunity to buy a car? I mean, you haven't seen lines outside of a retail establishment like this since Apple used to have lines before they... I think they still have lines. You started doing, you know?

They're still putting people in lines, you know. Somehow, I don't know really know how, but nobody lined up for the iPhone SE, I can tell you that. Which is a great segment, because I want to talk about the iPhone SE. All right, let's talk about it. This is a pretty nerdy show. So the iPhone SE is, just so I might understand it,

but I just want to be clear, the iPhone SE is exactly like the iPhone 5S, but it's faster and has a better camera. Yes. I mean, I don't know there's not much to say about it, except it's... Well, here's the most important thing to say, but in my opinion, is that the iPhone SE, now that I know there are going to be plenty of people that you and I know that are going to buy this because they prefer a smaller phone.

Sure. But the bottom line is that the iPhone SE is not for us. It's not for our country. It's for apples, ambitions, and plans elsewhere in the world. Full stop. Where? Where? It's not for you. It's not for you. You're laboring on that. Emerging markets, India, China, places like that, they're where they need to sell a less expensive iPhone, basically. It's not for us. Now, plenty of people are going to be thrilled because it's smaller and they really want that. I mean, Sam Schaffer, who I just mentioned,

are old social maven from the virgin farmer intern prior to that. Now, admissible. And also doing a vlog, which is quite interesting, but anyhow, Sam Schaffer, he's a wonderful man. In fact, I need to have him on the show. I've told him I wanted to have him on the show. This is my public promise to Sam

that he will be on the show. Well, you'll find out if he's listening or not, based on where they're not, he pings you. That's a great point. If he doesn't get in touch with you after this episode, I don't think you should let him on. This is a great way to find out if people are listening to the show.

Yeah. Like, if I were to say, like that bastard Kanye West owes me money, and he better email me and tell me that he's got a coming It'll be interesting to see if Kanye is listening. I'm sure he'll be in touch So but anyhow, yeah the SE I mean yes, okay. I get it's not for us. I Just feel like that event they did I Feel like it might have been better for Apple and the iPad the new iPad. It's like whatever. It's like this marginal update to a product. You've already introduced all of these features. You're just putting

it in a smaller size. I think, I think, honestly, it would have been better for Apple to just do some strategic pieces with the press. Do something with wire, do something with the verge, do something with, I i don't know business week fast company you know strategic each one gets a story somebody gets the ipad somebody gets the s e somebody and they all do features on it well look i think here's the hard part is that it was depressing well you may be right that it would have been a good strategy for the do that but then we'd be on this podcast talking about well why didn't apple do an event

and if it's not us, other people would have been. They can't win. Well, here's the interesting thing, is that I remember a couple of years ago, you started talking about how we're in a valley right now. Like, we're in the moment between moments, technologically speaking. Yeah, except when it comes to electric cars.

Right, except for that. But in terms of consumer tech, handsets, small things, things like that, we're in the moment between the moments markets are saturated, we now have to wait for technology to, we need new ideas and we probably, if the new ideas existed, would have to wait for technology to catch up with him. So the reality is, Josh, frankly, for a while,

the magic is probably not going to be as mind-blowing as it has been back in 2008, 2009, years like that. And I think that's okay. But the reason I bring that up is because I'm starting to see other people put forward that same idea now. I think there are three or four years late to putting that idea forward, but I'm seeing it pretty regularly now. People are saying, you know, we're in a valley,

we're on an upbeat, we're in a breath. Of course. And that's totally normal. All day after age, it's difficult. I mean, no, he would listen to me. I know. How long have I been saying, Michael? What year is it 2016? I think you've been saying it for four years, three, four years.

It's for sure. Well, even the valley is hard to see for when you're up on the mountain. It's true. Because although, down the fog, we're down the valley, like, oh, wait a second. What the fuck did I get down here? Yeah. This shit is real. How am I going to eat next thing? You know, a monkey's attacking you. But look, you do you need values like this? You need values like this because while when in valleys like this, this is when companies like Apple can continue to work on their silicon, on their chips.

And the chips can get better and better so that eventually, when the next big idea comes, the processing power is there, and then maybe it's just an engineering challenge. So there are other, I think, probably pretty magical things happening behind closed doors under the hoods of devices. But in terms of interface paradigms and hardware designs and models of interaction, I think we're basically hanging out right now, suspended animation. And that's okay.

Let me tell you something, I just read, as you were talking, you'll be very interested. Christix posted a blog post 13 minutes ago. This is on Sunday night. He's investing $3.1 million in a company that George Hots, Geo Hots, is running, comma AI. So A16Z is Andrews and Hor Horowitz is leading a $3.1 million investment in his self-driving car system. And he actually uses a screen grab of the Bloomberg story. I was just going to say this is the guy we did the story about.

This is the guy the Bloomberg did a big piece. I actually did Ashley Vance do it. He said, I think it was Ashley. One of those two brilliant, brilliant bastards. Anyhow? I think it was Ashley. One of those two brilliant bastards. Anyhow, yeah, it was actually. So that's interesting. This is what's really fascinating is like, I really think. So this is like talking about the valley.

I think something like this kind of, and not car technology, like, oh, it syncs better with my phone or whatever, but this big infrastructure stuff, self-driving vehicles, electric vehicles, all the tech that goes into that stuff. I look at VR and I think VR is similar, but I wonder if VR, I'm actually like sort of on the fence about whether VR is the,

we're at the moment now or we just think the we're at the moment. No, am I honest opinion? I do not, we're at the moment now or we just think the we're at the moment. No, my honest opinion, I do not think we're at the moment yet. I don't think the format is going anywhere. I think it's going to become a huge part of our, not maybe not our everyday lives, but it's not going anywhere. I think we are still at the very beginning, if I was going to make an analogy, I would say we're not even at original iPhone in terms of all the timeline. We're still before that.

I think it's going anywhere. I think that you're so right. I actually think that as much as I love what Oculus is doing and what HTC is doing, I feel like, and what Sony is going to do, I feel like we are at the Palm Trio stage where like the Blackberry pre-i phone stage of like it's like the the the ideas are there some of the execution is there it does it pretty well there's a certain segment of user that wants it and uses it and actually feel like this is really really close in fact a lot of ways certain power users are

getting them and using them and doing things that would become very common plays but the but there hasn't been that moment there isn't that like watershed moment of This is for everyone and here's why and here's how easy it is and like so I think and I think that that's really Like I don't know when that moment is gonna come and I don't know where that moment is gonna come from you know, I think that I Think that there's something that is very hard to track in with VR. You know, and I think that I do think, see, I do think that with the one I see the Model 3, I think that is the iPhone moment. I think that what we saw when he announced the Model 3, it was very similar to the iPhone, the original iPhone announcement, which is like, we made this thing, it's not here yet,

you're going to be able to get it, and this is what it does, and this is how much it's going to come. They didn't talk about the price, but they said, you get a sense of what the range is going to be. It's going to obviously somewhat affordable. But I think that it was like, oh shit, we just cracked something open with that announcement. Like, there's something here that we really haven't done before. We're in uncharted territory. And I think that's where that's where Tesla is with the Model 3, with VR. We're not there yet. I don't think we're there yet. And I wonder if I don't know, I honestly don't know how we get there. I mean, a smarter person than me is going to figure it out.

A lot, some of it, I'm honestly, I think, is going to require, like rely on Moore's law. Like right now, to get the optimal VR experience, you have to buy the VR hardware and you have to have a separate free standing PC that's powerful enough to run the software. I think eventually what we need is for that, the hardware to get powerful enough and inexpensive enough for it to be in one package. So that anybody, regardless of their familiarity with hardware or their level of sophistication, can walk into a best buyer, go to Amazon.com,

order one thing, plug it in, take it out of the box and be in VR 10 minutes later. That's where we have to get. Right, I mean, it has to be, yeah, I mean, it has to be something so I can't even, I can't begin. It's got to be seamless. I mean, right now it is still a very unique experience. But what is it? Even putting the thing on to me, I feel like that's an impediment that could be detrimental. Right.

But I think that that's not going anywhere. No, I think it needs to be, but I think it needs to be a sun glass size. That's the way I feel. It needs to be like you put on a pair of glasses that don't look, that don't look lame in your interviewer. Well, so now you're getting up to the point of where it's like, I don't know, and I'm sure somebody out there knows, but I certainly don't know,

the limits there may simply be imposed by physics, right? Oh, me. Of, you know, screens and angles and blade. I mean, but that's the limits that must be, that must be catapulted over. So you think having, looking like a bozo is it, well, even if you're doing a private room, is an impediment?

I mean, let's get it down really small, but what thing that you put on your face has gotten really popular? Well, this is true. I mean, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people,

people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people,

people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people,

people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people, people here because that was a novelty and also basically a failure. I mean, wasn't it pretty popular for a while? I don't know, but it's not a good comparison. This is not about laser tag. This is about like, it's like people don't want to wear those 3D glasses that look like glasses to have a 3D experience watching TV.

Now, do you have, have you done some reporting on this? If you talk to people who said, man, VR sounds cool, but I don't want to put that on my head. I don't have to do reporting. I know what's going on out there. I don't know. I think you should do some, get out on the street. I get out on the street, but I don't want to put that on my head. I don't have to do reporting. I know what's going on out there. I don't know. I think you should do some get out on the street. I'm going to treat that.

I'm telling you, I know what people are like. By the way, history has proven this out. It's like, they really don't want to put on weird shit. They don't. And if they do, the experience has to be so incredible. It has to be so otherworldly that like you don't care. Well, and I think that's what's going to have to be, I mean, I keep thinking about like Ready Player One and VR is going to have to be that good for it to really achieve escape

velocity. It's not, it's never going to be just imagine, I want you to imagine somebody. If it's not that good, it's only ever going to be a novelty and I believe that it is, it's got to be more than a novelty. I want you to imagine someone in Canada right now. Canada. Okay, they live in Toronto. Yeah, the law department over a really great party as Robin Williams used to say. They live in Toronto. No, they're just a regular person. Okay, they work.

They're an accountant in Toronto, okay. Yeah. Why do they need VR? What are you going to do for them? I can think of one thing and one thing only. What are you going to do for them in VR that makes it so good and so meaningful? And isn't like an apparatus that has like a line coming out of your ceiling that you know connects to a massive box somewhere. You don't like let's just say it like, let's just say it's like, let's just say it's a Samsung, you know, gear VR situation. Yeah.

It's like as small as you can pop your iPhone into it or something like that, okay? Yeah. Why are free? Yeah. What are you gonna give them that they need? That they're willing to sit with that thing on their face before?

So here's what I think the opportunity is. By the way, I love VR and I'm a huge proponent of it. I'm just, I'm seriously like, I'm questioning what the breaking point is. The, the thing that VR has, which at this point has been probably sounds like of the cliche, is complete and utter immersion, right? And I think that in order for VR to really take over, it's other, it's that paradigm of complete immersion has to become a standard that the audience consumers, you, me, normal people, everybody demands. So that 10 years from now, the best way to watch the Super Bowl is in VR. And the only way to play games is

in VR. Okay, let's Let's go on. It's got a replace on the Parade. Let's talk about the Super Bowl example first. All right. Yeah. And when people watch the Super Bowl, they get together and they have a party.

Not in our dystopian future. And there are no parties. Well, right now and for the last 50 years that the Super Bowl has been on or however long it's been. Mm-hmm. So you tell me how VR replaces that experience, changes that experience. You tell me how people are gonna be like,

you know what I'm gonna stay home and I'm just gonna pop on my VR headset and watch it. Well look, it's better than getting on the subway to go to a friend's house in Queens. I don't think it is. I don't think it is. No, look, it's not, but I think you're asking a very huge internet action.

OK, and that gets me to my killer app, which is a sex simulator. I think just like for VHS, a lot of the success had to do with porn. And frankly, for the internet, I think a lot of the success had to do with porn. Yeah. And porn shows the winner in the high definition

format wars. I think that is that true? I think so. You may just be making that up. Then I make that up. It feels possible. Here, let's just put it this way. Well, porn chooses a lot of winners when it comes to consumer technology and audiovisual

formats. I'm saying that's a highly motivating factor for a lot of people. Listen, if you could give them a true full immersion sex experience. You have the beginning of the downfall of human civilization. You do, but you also have, I think, I think you have the killer app for VR. I think the like,

well, I put this thing on my head, I can get have sex with anybody I want. Okay, yeah, I guess so. I think you're just highlighting a timeless truth of the human condition, which is that sex is the killer app for humanity. Sex is the killer, well, actually, it's really when you get down to it.

I don't want to get too philosophical here, but when you get right down to the core of everything. Get to the core, get there. Sex really is the killer app for humanity, because it is the magical act that allows us to continue as a species. So really at the core of everything, in a way, since it is really our biological imperative to pro-create, and frankly, the biological need of the species, maybe the core of everything

is really just getting laid, just trying to get laid in one way or another. I mean, think of the rise of like apps like Tinder on the iPhone, you know? I think if I saw any relationships, let me really start on Facebook. Way too many. How many relationships have started? Because you Googled something. And next to you, though, you're falling in love. Very few started like that. But I think the point is, I think the point is, no, I think sex might be the magic bullet

for VR. Look, like I said. And for humanity. I don't think the format is going anywhere. I think it's going to be a huge part of our lives in the future. But if I could tell you what happens in between now and then, I wouldn't be on this podcast that'd be making a million dollars. A million, it sounds low.

If you could tell me that and be right, I think a million would be, you sell it here's all short. If that's all you're doing. But you know, so I think it's, anyhow, it's interesting, but I do think, I wanna, you know what, I wanna see happen in technology

and with innovation where I think we can have some really, like it would just so slow, it may as well not even be happening, certainly not in the United States. Peace in the Middle East. No, no, let's not be unrealistic. No, infrastructure, like our actual city and nation infrastructure, it feels like there're so little being done. You know what I mean? It's not just about like how do we have,

how do we get bridges that don't collapse? Because that is an issue. But you know, public transit, powering cities, making cities smart. No, what does this have to do with VR? A nun, I think has nothing to do with VR. I'm saying like the technologies that I feel like, well, we're talking about VR, we're talking VR, we're talking about the test-level in electric cars,

and other big infrastructure pieces. I'm just saying that I think a place where there's a huge opportunity and very little seems to be getting done is how do you actually create cities of the future? How do you actually create infrastructure for populations of the future? I mean, you look at New York is this over-crowded mess of a city. And frankly, what's being bought up on most blocks is what's happening is these really shitty condos for the really for like the 1%, or let's say the 10% or something. And Chipotle or whatever is's coming after Shake Shack, or whatever's the next thing.

It's like New York is not like organically growing. It's growing into these really weird corporate ways. But it's also like becoming a very intolerable place to live in. I mean, it's like high and low. It's like the extreme of high and low. It's like you have to be very rich to live in New York to get around as a nightmare.

I mean, you take the train every day. Yeah. How's your commute? Well, I take the four or five. And as anyone who lives in New York will know that commuting on the four or five at rush hour is a nightmare as far as the first world goes. I mean, can you even get on like you how many trains it's to wait for when you're in the train?

I'm, but well, remember I start in Brooklyn. By the time it gets to my stop, it's pretty full, but maybe one commute in six. I have to wait for, I don't get on my first trip. Right, but it's uncomfortable, isn't it? Oh, it's, it's halacious, especially in the summer. I mean, can you, can you move when you're on the trade? No.

That's such a crazy, to me, such a crazy hazard. Isn't it? I mean, how many think about all of those people smashed into? So it's like, can we deal with that? You know, the amount of cars that are in the city, the way the city is powered, all of these things, there's so much that could be done. I feel like we have such, we've done so little, you know, the architect, Zaha Hadid, died recently. Yeah. That's it. It does suck. And she was brilliant. Remember, she was in our, our very first edition of the verge 50. That's right. She was on the list. That's right. I think she was brilliant. Remember she was in our very first edition of the Verge 50? That's right.

She was on the list. That's right. I think she was number six. Very influential, very influential. But I think about some of her architecture. I think it is this architecture of the future. It really does look like something from science fiction. It's amazing.

And we can make buildings look really beautiful in modern. But we don't seem to be able to build them really in a beautiful, in a really modern way. Well, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's all over the country. I'm going to throw some data at you, get ready for this. So this is from a 2012 Pew report. So it's a little bit old now, but I think the headline still stands.

Only 62% of people in households making less than $30,000 a year use the internet. And when you jump up to like $50,000 a year, that percentage jumps to 90%. And there's still huge gaps in America when it comes to access to high-speed internet along racial lines. So only 49% and again, these numbers are from 2012

of African Americans and 51% of Hispanics have high-speed internet at home compared to 66% of Caucasians. And look, internet speed, I mean, how easy it is for you to access the internet has a dramatic ripple effect on these days, especially where everything is on the internet, you're in your whole life. How easy it is for you to access the internet, the quality of the connection, whether or not you can access media, I mean, it affects everything in your life

from dealing with the government. A lot of it's online now. School education certainly, exposure to culture and entertainment. And so it's not just the infrastructure we can see, that's a huge issue, and where there are huge opportunities to sort of democratize all of it. It's the infrastructure we can't see.

Right. And the reason that I started thinking about this because we were talking about Oculus and we're really lucky that we're sitting here sort of philosophizing about the future of VR but the reality is, none of that matters if you're connection to the internet isn't strong enough to serve it, right?

Right, and this is what I'm saying. And I think just think that, it's like I'm keeping waiting for it to, I keep waiting for things to change really, to really change. And I feel like we're still waiting, you know, maybe I'm, maybe I'm impatient, but I just think that, um, that, that large scale, I mean, the internet is a great one, actually, you know, the internet in this country, in the US. Why, how we don't have, and why we don't have, and how we're not making it a priority

to have high speed, really high speed, by the way, like by comparison. Truly high speed for everyone. You know, it's not impossible to do. It just requires like an enormous amount of collaboration on the part of a lot of people. There are. I'm sure I'm going to get flamed mercilessly for this, but I think there are two things that would be like pouring rocket fuel on the US economy.

One, would be finding a way to forgive the trillions of dollars in student debt that are outstanding at certain income levels, obviously, and two, would be finding a way to truly get high speed internet access for everyone. I listen, I mean, this country is a huge Ponzi scheme. I mean, we're screwing. We're screwing. No, we are. I mean, it is the concentration of wealth is, you know, insane and unbelievable. And never, it's like never before been like this at any point in history.

Correct. And the class or economic mobility, however you want to say it, has come to a standstill, or is coming to a standstill in the sense that like, you know, the American, part of the American dream was supposed to be, or part of the idea of America supposed to be, you can beat poor here, you can work hard and work your way up the ladder and become, you know, economically better off than you were, and your kids will be economically better and there was a point a very real like natural progression of that in this country and it has it seems to be stalling and I think I mean a lot of that has to do with I mean a lot of that has to do with the scheme that we have created

the collusion of the government and big big businesses and big banks To keep the money to keep the money and people's to keep money and other people's hands. And I don't mean like some kind of like, I don't mean some like communist like, full on the redistribution of wealth, but I mean the reality is the hoarded wealth is having massive trickle down negative impact on society at large. Let me, let me through another idea. Yeah, please do. Not that I'm just agreeing with what you said, but another idea that's worth discussing.

And this was, they talked about this on a recent episode of the Freakonomics podcast. So they had an economist on, his name is Robert Gordon, and he's put forth this idea that the second industrial revolution was basically a one-time event, and that because of that, we now have completely unrealistic expectations for how our economy should develop going forward.

That we've basically, that was the biggest boom of innovation and wealth creation and technological and human progress that we're gonna see. Things like electricity, the gasoline engine, antibiotics. It was this period of time which created the biggest and fastest boost in standard of living in the history of the United States. And this economist Robert Gordon basically argues that, sorry everybody, that was a special one-time event.

And the reality is, for most of human history, the human condition has been pretty stagnant for hundreds of years at a time. That's probably where we're headed. It's kind of scary, but it's also really interesting. It also doesn't, you know, they know weird with it, it doesn't dovetail with all the things that we're doing through technology, you know, where it looks like we should be and can be moving towards something much bigger. You know?

And so, you know, maybe that's wrong. Maybe that's a myth. I do think the reason why both Trump and Bernie Sanders have, maybe we talked about this before, but the reason why both of them have managed to create some interest and excitement is because they do address like one of the, they do address this like sort of this feeling that like we're being lied to on a massive scale and then nobody and then nobody

saying it, nobody saying it, nobody's doing anything about it. And they're like that, that sort of the concentration of political power and business power has been bad for most people. Well, I think the interesting thing that Trump and Sanders have in common is that they both sort of put forward this idea of a renaissance or a rebirth of like a blue collar economy and a healthy blue collar workforce in the United States. But most economists say that that's completely impossible

in today's global economy. And it's sort of interesting that that's completely impossible in today's global economy. And it's sort of interesting that that's one thing that they both have in common despite how different they are and everything else. But yeah, it's an interesting discussion about how there's a common thread there. Right. I mean, that's, I mean, I like to do

that it's basically impossible in the global economy. Like, where everything's so tied in and tied up, that even if we did have some, try to create some radical change through somebody forces that will push back on it and obviate the possibilities. Kind of depressing. Anyhow, let's switch to something a little bit happier for our final segment. Let's do that. Batman be Superman.

Haven't seen it either. And I think, but listen, I think, as a lifelong Batman fan, I think that says something really important. I mean, I'll be honest with you, I don't think Christopher Nolan did that great of a job with Batman. Like I have definite issues. Not even Batman begins, huh?

Ben begins, I think the dark night is obviously far and away the best of that trilogy. I don't think Batman begins or the last where the dark night rises, that was called. I think so. That movie's terrible. I mean, that movie's just terrible. But I understand that this Batman versus Superman

film is even worse. And I think I will say this, all of what I really, really want to say, because I can't talk about the film itself, I haven't seen it. Right, yeah. What I can say is, I think the comic book movie trend is gonna be grind into a halt pretty soon.

You think we're reaching our, our scene at the end? These movies are fucking stupid. I'm sorry, I've watched all of the Avengers like films and their related films. And except for Ant-Man, which I saw a little bit of on plane, it was so pointless and stupid that I couldn't stand to... I mean, just like, it's just like every one of these stories is exactly the same. And they're now the new twist on, like, with like, okay, yeah, we established all these

comic heroes and some of them don't get along. And like, yeah, let's turn that into a movie. Like, it was a big deal that like, you know, in the last Avengers that Hulk and Iron Man had a fight in Iron Man has some special big suit that he wore or whatever. You know, people got like boners about that. It's like, oh man, Iron Man's got a big suit. Like the CGI characters fighting this other CGI character. Um, and now it's like, and now it's like Captain American Iron Man or like at odds.

And it's like, guess what? No matter what happens in this movie, Captain American Iron Man are going to be teaming up for the next Avengers. Don't worry about it. Like it's, and it's like, and it's like, there are no stakes in these films. Like, well, you know what I've been thinking a lot lately is that I'm starting to think that television, specifically the kind of television that Netflix is influencing is a better medium for superhero stories. Well, so I haven't been watching Daredevil, but I have been watching the OJ Simpson mini series.

Oh, okay. And I will tell you this, like, do 10 episodes, do 10 Avengers, do like a story arc that is like, on a whole season. Yeah. That will be much more satisfying. Absolutely. So have you seen Jessica Jones?

Yeah, we started watching it. I thought, I think it is a little heavy handed in spots. I like, listen, I like parts of it. I think the villain is excellent. Yeah. Oh, yeah, he's very good. Very good. I mean, does Laura like it? No, we both had a similar feeling. It's just like, it's just not a lot of synchrotathy to them too. And a lot of it is quite silly. I mean, it's quite, it really is quite silly

when you really get right down to it. It's like, this is sort of preposterous and stupid and like as an adult and by the way again I'm a fan. I love comic books But you kind of did step back and go like this stuff is really kind of dumb. I mean one of the things I think the Now it's the most of the X-Men movies have been terrible I Thought the last one was pretty decent I Thought that the first two were very good. That's pretty much as far

as I'm interested in commenting on any of the X-Men movies, but I will say that the one thing that the X-Men movies, oh no, in first class I thought was pretty good. Here's what's interesting about the X-Men movies. They explore human level problems. Yes. They do not, they are not constantly obsessed with exploring some bullshit. You know, a lot of the Avengers movies seem to be fixated on these massive global events that are occurring that some member of the Avengers has to deal with, or we're introduced to some new big idea that nobody really understood before.

And then in the course of each movie, an entire city is destroyed. Yeah, like in the last Avengers movie, I don't even know what the fuck was going on in that movie. Honestly, like somebody wanted to kill somebody and so they were blowing some stuff up like this is my takeaway. There was like a bad guy who really hated some other people and wanted to like blow with the, oh, I was's raised a computer, right? The computer decided that he had to kill all. This is by the way, I'm sorry, the plot of right now,

I remember, Ultron. The plot of the Avengers, last Avengers movie was an artificially intelligent machine decided that humanity must be wiped out. It's like, dude, that plot is like a billion fucking years old. I mean, that is the plot of every movie about an AI that's ever existed. Like, well, I don't think there was much of a plot. You know, there wasn't a plot. And then it was like some really sick battles, you know?

Anyhow, the point is, anyhow, getting back to my point, the real point, which is I think comic book movies are going to fall on hard times very soon. Look, I, I think, I think comic book movies are, are, are going to fall on hard times very soon. Look, I think, yeah, I think comic book movies, they're, they're draining the joy out of the genre. Look, I think they're very much at this point from what I can see headed towards their need dear, but comic book television, I believe, has a lot of potential. I just, you know, I think television a lot of potential too, and I think that's where people should shift their attention. What's unfortunate is, I mean, television, even the right

words, like, no, you know, it's long form. Yeah, it's long form video serialized storytelling, serialized video storytelling. Imagine a Batman series with the, with the kind of money and time and effort put into Game of Thrones. Imagine an ongoing story arc where characters develop, where storylines develop, where you see the Joker from his infancy, from the beginning of his career as a criminal to his absolutely most dreadful, you know. Think about the story arcs that you could really, the kinds of character development, the kinds of character you could introduce. And I mean, like, listen, I've watched a little bit of Daredevil, Jessica Jones, I've watched. I don't think like, I think you can go way bigger and deeper on storytelling with those, you know, I think in the way that the best comic books go, bigger and deeper on storytelling, where

it isn't just about superpowers or conspiracies, where there is real storytelling. I just think there's a huge, yeah, I agree with you. I think there's a medium there that can be tapped into, that isn't being tapped into. And I think what we get is these bloated one these bloated like one off attempts to, listen, I get it. That's where the money is, you know? Like the Chinese viewers that are pouring into theaters to see Batman versus Superman, by the way, there's a huge international audience for this. It's not just about America anymore, which is about the United States, which is fine. They're not watching for the second weekend in a row. It was the top movie here as well.

Now that you've been implemented like seven percent or something. Exactly. It's plummeted, but it was still the top movie. I get it. I mean, listen, it was a big enough marketing budget, pretty much anything. It would be the top movie. I mean, Daddy's home is this a successful film. You know, like that's, I don't know what to tell you.

Like almost anything could be successful these days. Yeah. It makes equals to films. I'm like, you've got to be, I can, there's no way that was a fucking hit. And they're like, no, that was that made like $800 million of the box office. I'm like, you know, like, you know, Jeepers Creepers 6, like was, you know,

made $450 million or something. That movie doesn't exist. And it didn't, it would make up a funny if it did. It might exist. No, I think we need to wrap up, unfortunately. I want to do it. I said, I swore to myself, I was gonna be, we were gonna do a tight one today.

Yeah. And this has been pretty tight. We're in about an hour and seven minutes, I think. That's what I have on my, on my clock here. Listen Michael, as always, this has been great. Just wonderful. I hope other people think it's as wonderful as you do. Well, I don't think they're going to,

but you know, that's their problem. And that's the, they're to have to learn to live with. Look, we're not doing it for them. We're doing it for each other. No, and you've got to come back again. I mean, on the podcast. Yeah, next time we've doing person. But we should totally do that.

Does that say that last time? No, you didn't say it last time. I'm saying it now. All right. All right, thank you again. It's my pleasure. Well that is our show for this week. We'll be back next week with more tomorrow. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best. Though unfortunately for you and your family, the American dream is just driven away

in a Tesla Model 3. you