Tomorrow - Episode 56: Clarity with Laura June

Episode Date: June 10, 2016

Dearest Podcast Listener, We cordially invite you to a discussion between media power couple Joshua “I-ironically-pretend-to-enjoy-things-I-later-earnestly-like” Topolsky and the esteemed writer, editor, and author Laura “Zelda keeps breaking my pens” June. To stimulate your mind, the two shall hash out the issues swirling around the media’s coverage of Brock “White Privilege” Turner. They also plan a sweeping discussion of what Hillary “Democratic Nominee” Clinton’s campaign means for the future of the presidency and our society, following Mrs. Clinton’s presumptive defeat of Bernard “Jerome Antonius Jeffrey Bernie NoMiddleName Dorothy Dot” Sanders. If time allows, the pair will also perform a ceremonial evisceration of Donald “I’m a racist!” Trump. Please RSVP at your earliest convenience, as space is limited for the once-in-a-lifetime event known as “Episode 56.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey and welcome to tomorrow, I'm your host Josh Wutfulski. Today on the podcast we discussed John McCain, Sarah Palin, and Donald Trump an author who is penning a memoir for Penguin entitled, Now My Heart Is Fall. I'm, of course, talking about the inimitable, illustrious, very sexy, but also very smart, Laura June. Laura, thank you for being here in my home, which is also your I've already changed my mind about what I would like to delete this and move on delete your account. Well listen, this is very exciting stuff. Okay, we have a lot

to talk about because we it is Hillary has become the presumptive I don't really like saying presumptive because it sounds like it's still not. And then she definitely is like, this is, I mean, I think we're just, you know, it's media organizations of course have to do it, but we don't have to. This is like, today I've seen, today I've seen like five articles about why media organizations are not referring to Brock Turner as a rapist, which is because legally he was convicted of sexual assault not rape. I don't know, I feel like if you... And so I feel like this is like another thing

where it's like it's very important to be correct or to be accurate, but like in this instance with him it's like he's a rapist. I mean, here's the thing. Now I don't wanna get into that, by the way I wanted to get back to Hillary. Sorry. No, no, that's rapist. I mean, here's the thing. Now, I don't want to get into that. By the way, I wanted to get back to Hillary. Sorry. No, no, that's okay.

I like how you've turned that immediately. I just think there's a lot of very touchy topics about right now. And so people are worried, carefully, which is probably, it's like reverse. It's like reverse SJW. What is that? Well, I think it generally

can be called it political correctness, but I think in this instance, it's just the media trying to be accurate. I mean, I think they're being trying to be accurate and then they're trying to explain why they're trying to be accurate. So here's that. So wait, so let me understand

where you come down on this. So you are fine with calling Brock Turner. Is that his name? Right, it doesn't even sound like a real name. Like, first off, also, I get that we want to publicly shame Brock Turner. Is that his name? It doesn't even sound like a real name. First off, also, I get that we want to publicly shame Brock Turner and make sure that he cannot go anywhere without people spending on him or throwing pigs blood on him, both of which I suggest. Although, I'm of course against the killing of pigs, so I don't think you should... If a pig died

of natural causes, you should collect their blood and throw it on Brock Turner, but don't kill a pig just to throw a blood on Brock Turner. But I don't know why I don't know why pigs, but it doesn't mean that people, that's like a carry thing, isn't it? Yeah. There's probably some connotation there that isn't good, but at any rate, obviously he should be publicly shamed and should have his entire life ruined

because he ruined somebody's, well, I tried to ruin somebody's life. I mean, I don't think that public shame is, if that's neither here nor there. No, let's get him. I mean, what we't think that public shame is it's that's neither here nor there. No, let's get him I Mean what we want is for the justice system to To take care of the situation and to deliver an Accu like a fair the person who really should be holically ashamed is this judge because like he could have don't worry

He's being he's definitely being shit public least He I mean the judge could have given him any sentence at all I mean he could have any like he could have been put him in jail for 10 years, right? For 15 years. I mean, what is the right jail term for some, like, so what, on, he's is crime. I guess I don't know. I guess I read the letter, but I'm still a little on the fog,

like, what, and we can get in this. Did he do, like, I'll, did he do like a, a, a, this will lead us to, this will lead us to politics, because I think it is it is related I should know Yeah, it is related in that we have a state by state system of how we define things and how we deal with things So in the state of California What he did was not rape what do you do he?

Did not Use his penis, okay, right? It was digital digital penetration. I think it was of objects That's fucking insane. Yeah, it's actually like that's like more actually that's like in some ways more Disturbing than just this I mean this is an adjustment call But like I think what it is is like, we use, we are not legal people. We're not the lawyers. We are not, no, the public. We are the royal.

We're the journalists, you know. There's like legal definitions of things, and then there's like our understanding of a word, right? And our understanding of rape is like, absolutely that happened to her. Right, the text of the technically, right technically according to California law, he is not a rapist.

But I think that's a flaw on the law, if you ask me, because I feel like- It's a flaw in a lot of things. And I feel like that, I feel like there's no less horrific and degrading no matter what is the instrument is, whether it's penis or an object or whatever. Right, and according to our sort of emotional understanding of this, like rape is the word that you use whether it's penis or a dobject or whatever. Right, and according to our sort of emotional understanding

of this, like rape is the word that you use for the worst thing you can do to someone in a, I mean, even calling it sex is not fair. I think it's like, An unwanted crime. It's like, and I think that like to not, This is not beat. Yeah, I mean,

No, it's fine, no, it's fine. I love you. You know, I just think that like there's a lot of hand-ringing in the media and they're mean. No, it's fine. No, it's fine. I love him. You know, I just think that like there's a lot of hand ringing in the media and they're like, oh, we don't want to call it that because it's not technically that and calling him a rapist seems inaccurate. But I think for the end of the day, like, I think it's very much like, I think that the people complaining about that stuff do have a point, like, and I think their point is

fair, which is like the representation matters the way that because clearly like he got a break because he's a young affluent white guy. And like that's the problem. I'm sure the judge also like wasn't really ready. People are calling him a swimmer and it's like, what did his father say? You know, he's a rapist.

What is father's like 20 minutes of action. It's like, you know, it's very, well, I think it's interesting because it's a situation where you can say very easily, you can go like, well, you know, it didn't it doesn't count because it was, it wasn't this particular act. It was some other version. And it's like, you know, he's absolutely a rapist. There's no question. And if you go through the history of you, if you've ever read, which I have spent for unrelated reasons, I have spent a lot of time reading accounts of women being

assaulted and hurt and murdered and raped. When you go through these, you see that men got off for this shit like this all the time. But I think that so for the public is kind of, I think, just fed up and tired of this kid basically getting a pass. The Joe Biden letter that was released today, we're recording this on. So I've not read his letter, I've only heard

like, the Joe Biden letter is, it's very good. I just got kind of like choked up reading it. I mean, I got choked up reading. I basically had to pull my car over while I was reading this. I mean, I think that we should go back and just say, we're talking, in the case you don't know we're talking about, which is like, I don't know how you, if you were on the internet at all this week,

you could not know, but we're talking about this Buzzfeed publishes letter of a rape victim. Actually, the letter had been published, but Buzzfeed promoted to let her. I mean, and then proceeded to Buzzfeed all over it. Yeah, well, I want to talk about that, but I want to, I just want to set the stage this so I don't mean to cut you off. But by the way, just imagine, I just want the audience to imagine the several people that are left listening to this after the intro.

Just imagine what it's like for us day and day out at the Tupulski household. I said Hillary Clinton, saying something about Hillary Clinton being the presumptive nominee. And now we're getting there. Well, I'm getting there. No, I know that, but I just imagine. But you're just begging me to take it too long. No, no, I'm not. But I think it's just, I don't want people to imagine

the kind of multi-faceted conversations that unfold here at the Tepulski Contest. You're trying to impress your audience with how? No, I'm just saying, you know, it's, we don't finish a lot of conversation. We're very complicated people. We're complicated people. At any rate, Brock Turner is a guy, is a,

I wanna just set the state on your turn. Can't believe you're doing an explainer. Well, you wrote your eyes, but there are maybe people who are like, what are these guys talking about? It's possible, they don't know. A woman wrote a letter, she read a letter allowed in court to a man who raped her,

guiding Brock Turner. And it was a very powerful letter, she read a letter aloud in court to a man who raped her, guiding Brock Turner. And it was a very powerful letter, Buzzfeed published it. It had been published on the, on the, like the Santa Clara. It's Santa Clara, is that it? It's Santa Clara County, I wanna say. And I've been published somewhere, but then they picked it up and they, you know,

the point is it's been a big topic with a lot of truth in the sweet. I mean, I probably tend to use it whenever. A ton of views and a ton of reactions from people and there's been a lot of follow-up because this guy who raped this girl got like a six-month sentence, which is insane. And because of what he's pretty swimming career, so. There's been a long sort of process of people going, hey, wait a minute, like he was treated really like, you know, if he hadn't been why he would have been treated much more harshly.

Of course. There's a million ways to slice this, I spend and say that, but basically he got an incredibly like way below the minimum sentence. But it's like, there's this, there's this like sense that everyone involved in the case is sort of like, hey, he's actually a good kid. Yeah. When me, while it's like, fuck you, you know, itist. It's only in case, it's like, obviously, privilege is a big piece of this bit. But also the dynamic of men and women, and particularly in this country, but around the world, sex crimes is the only situation

where you're a person's like, I was attacked violently by a person, and then everybody's like, were you really like, oh, this is the Johnny's app, and we heard problem. And I think I just want to say, I think this has been building. I think this has been building to a head for a long time

and I don't think those two things are unrelated. Nor do I think you can sort of follow back to our political conundrum right now. I think that the reason that people are really, particularly pissed off about, like, is he a rapist or not a rapist? I think that if reason that people are really, particularly pissed off about like, is he a rapist or not a rapist? I think that if you look at the comments of any article that doesn't refer to him as a rapist,

they're freaking out. And I was very surprised by it. And I work at a New York magazine. And then New York, the cut wrote a post basically saying, we haven't referred to him as a rapist because he's not technically and that sucks. How about that? Yeah, and then I think Fox wrote one today and Time Magazine wrote one. Fox.

Fox, okay. And so everyone sort of lined up to say here's the problem like with what happened and like it's infuriating and then you know, but I think the problem is that people are pissed off at the media partially because there's a really uneasy sense with like, this has been a really huge story. Most websites traffic is up. And if you look at the top posts of every website, it's like the top five are all these like Brock Turner posts. And like the truth is that like, that feels very uncomfortable for people making the stories and for people consuming them. I mean, you know, this story has been viral and like Ben Smith tweeted about how this is

the most like popular thing since the dress and people are like, what the fuck man? Which I think the intention is, I don't think he meant it in your brain. No, I think the intention of his tweet was not to feel like. I think they're trying to say like, look, this is affected a lot of people, a lot of people have read it. The victim who wrote the letter wanted it on Buzzfeed because she wanted to reach like a lot of people. Yeah, she You know, but like then today they made a video where they had like people like acting out the letter and reading it to strangers on the street And like my I only watched like I couldn't watch it like I watched like 20 seconds of it

Buzzfeed is that yeah, you know what You know what, we need to stop. We need to stop. But I'll say this, okay, here's what really pisses me off. The letter is incredible. BuzzFeed did some follow-up reporting that was good. Right. The cut did some follow-up reporting that was good. There's our New York magazine.

I don't know if it was on the cut or New York. Yeah, I think both are. Both, yeah. We're working on that. There are a handful of people who did some legitimate reporting around this. And then there are a bunch of mother fuckers who, you know who you are, who just like tried to mine this.

So just like glowing. So yeah, you just like, you know, this is hot content, what's our take? And I saw like the day, there was a moment where Brock, the Brock Turner mug shot hit. And the level of Brock Turner takes and content was so high. It's like, listen, I get like, you need a piece of the pie,

but there is a point where you go like, in the interest of good taste and in the interest of, of actually trying to contribute something. You go, you go, listen, this is not ours. It's not us. Like, we don't need to be part of this. Like, we can let the story be somewhere else. Like, I think one of the greatest mistakes of modern media is that no one can let the story be owned by somebody else.

Everybody has such a, it's such this intense, fomo about content that it's no matter what story it is, you feel the need, you've got to find your angle. It's like, you know, it's like, I- I think it's a social media thing. I think that it gives the people who work in media and the people who consume it the sense that there's only one or two things can be going on at any given moment, which of course is not as true, not true.

You know, you walk through every day doing a million things at once. You're thinking about your home or your family or like something that's going on with your siblings or whatever, you multitask in your head and physically and mentally, and your attentions can be divided all over the place. Like we're capable of reading more than one,

about more than one thing in a day. But like, I think because social media is so immediate and it happens like so, so it's like Twitter gives this really distorted. The more I think I've been thinking about lately, Twitter gives this like a very distorted view of the world. It makes it feel very pressing in a way that things are not. And like I do think that that does kind of poison the well of media. Right. Well, if you think Twitter's view is distorted, think of, I mean, Twitter is not very popular.

Most people don't. Well, that's the feeling of that theory. That's what's really, no, but that point is even, is doubly or triply or quadruply true about Facebook because what Facebook does, it surfaces like the most algorithmically appropriate, right? Which means the most shared, the most talked about, but that means single stories, the focus and attention and concentration of interest in a single story becomes way higher.

Right? So for a normal person, the normal people, weird people are on Twitter, media people and celebrities, but it's a much smaller audience than Facebook Facebook is like everybody. It's like the mom your dad whoever right and your cousins everybody your high school people you went to high school with and Their view of this is they see shit to bubbles up with like intense pressure behind it like huge Waves of these like storylines that go up. Right. I mean, literally like there is, there is, so you know, a Facebook isn't like a real-time

feed. No, it's not at all and I- Facebook is a slow- I see stuff in there that's like month old sometimes and I'm like, why is this here now? Well that was one of the things when Facebook started doing it's news feed. Do you remember in 20 miles? Oh yeah, we used to get like- You would see like a story- Like an old time. You would see a story and it was like- is here now. Well, that was one of the things when Facebook started doing it's news feed. Do you remember in 20 while? Oh, yeah, we used to get like,

you would see like a story all the time. You would see a story and it was like, I still share link occasionally. I was like, wait, this is April's whole. It was like Bill Clinton goes to Kosovo and you're like, what has happening? Why, why? And it's like from 1990.

I mean, like not a month ago, there was an article. It was like from one of the women's magazines. I think it was Elle, but it might have been Cosmo or something I think had been from the print magazine, but it was on their web. And it was like, how, it's like one of these, where they take a notable person into a food diary.

And it was a woman who owns a specialty juice store. I think out in LA. Specialty juice? Yeah, not even pressed juice. It's moon juice. And not even cleansing. It's like... What's moon juice?

I think that's one of her juices. Anyway, the point was... It's like juice that you... The woman had... Just look at it for a long time. The woman had a crazy borderline, your anorexic problematic food diet. It was like, I eat a wheatgrass shot,

and then two hours later, I have four almonds, and then I have a green juice. And like, you know, at the end of the day, I finish off with a huge salad of lettuce and... Oh, she's blotting us. You know, it's like nothing. It's like crazy. And it's sort of like, everyone was sharing it on Twitter,

I saw it on Facebook, and and like it was a year old. But it just was like, I had never seen it when it was around originally. Of course, no. And I think at the time, it sort of like must have flown under the radar and like everyone that I know, everyone that I've talked to was like, can you fucking believe Facebook right now

is the biggest vehicle for old shit that is irrelevant to crop up. Like there was this video that was doing the rounds last week that was like scientists have invented a training that can go over cars. And it was this like concept video about this train and see the China, Japan, or somewhere. And it was like, the video was from like 2012 or something.

And it had already done the concept rounds. But it's like Facebook, I mean, look. But you know, what's interesting about this is don't you remember back in like two, the blogging years of like 2008, 2009, where of like, like, I remember like 50, 60% of your blogging time would be like finding out if something was old. I mean, you would spend like, deep, you'd be deep in the links, you know, trying to figure out if it was new. There used to be a couple.

And I feel like that's dead. Like, there used to be in the old world of comments. So it used to be a couple of things that were like major like signals. There was like first, which was obviously the first, it was going to be the first comment. By the way, first, I've like long for the days of something as innocent as first being like a problem

in comments. And then there's like old. Old was a thing. Old was a thing that you saw all the time. I mean, when we were at end gadget here, it was an embarrassment. Right. If you posted something, somebody was like old. They had posted a link to the thing. And you'd be like, I mean, it was like a job ender. Yeah. Like it was a really fire people. If they posted an old link, it was like, got a job ender. Yeah, like that was a really fire people if they posted an old link It was like you're gone. See you later. No, but but now we took it really seriously And now it's like everyone's like no now. It's like forwards like that it forwards that you get like your on email Chains and you're like remember what America used to be like in the 50s is like hey

I remember these phones with the rotary or whatever and like that now all of a sudden There's like a Facebook post is like remember the phones with the rotary and it's got like six million likes on it I find myself going through those like these celebrities age so badly I go through those slits shows like at least once a week I hit like where you go like you started like something reputable like TMZ or Perez Hilton And then you end up like on fish wrapper and then you end up on like just Jared or and then you get like deeper and deeper into the websites that are like not. Just Jared. Is that a real website?

Who is Jared? But I'm just saying like, I only know one public Jared, he's not in good shape. It's like in through the chum of those websites. Eventually you end up in a place where like it's dark, it's like they only exist as slideshows. And I will tell you,

I don't know those sites, I know what you're talking about. It's like what is this? Like what is this? Where's like amazing photos. And I will tell you that like know what you're talking about, it's like, what is this? Where's like amazing photos? And I will tell you that like, there's like one photo of like, it's, I think it's fake of like Marilyn Monroe and JFK that's in like every side of you.

Yeah, yeah. No, this is like today, I tweeted about the, or like the ones of like fucked up dead people photos. This is like, this is like the, this is like the whatever the sub to bull, like when you get a taboo link and then at the bottom of the taboo link, which is like bullshit and horrible, there's a sub to Bulla link section.

But like, this is like- But I think there's something real there, I think that- No, I think there's a fucking- I think that there's something, I mean, I have a person who loves history and like context and I think that like, they're doing it badly. A lot of the time they're really wrong, a lot of these are fake, but like,

the concept is actually really good. Like, if these are fake, but like the concept is actually really good. Like if these done things were research really hard. Like the concepts of like a lot of these like sort of like chum slide shows like. Wait, I mean the concept, you mean like the celebrities who have aged? Well the comparison ones of like child stars to the now or like that I mean that's those are like the kind of those are actually almost on the reputable websites when you get like deep to the ones where they're like you know I'm trying to think of the one I read last week but like I'm

just saying like I think what's the JFK Maryland Maryland Maryland. Yeah I'm trying to think of what slideshow that was it was like famous photos of like famous figures you wouldn't believe you can't believe this a very yeah I'm pretty sure a lot of like there was like famous photos of like famous figures. You wouldn't believe that. You wouldn't believe this had occurred. And I'm pretty sure a lot of like, there was like, They're all photoshopped, aren't they?

I think some of them were fake and some of them were real. And I think that like, Well, we don't know anymore because there's like, in the churn of the bottom of the internet, there's all this bullshit. Right, but I'm just saying, there's so much of stuff, there's so much of that stuff on the internet now,

that even the concept of something being old is like kinda old. But I feel like, I feel like, I feel like. You can't research stuff a lot of the time now. But I feel like this maybe, we don't know, but maybe that stuff is being generated by an algorithm somewhere.

I mean, I think it kind of is. It's not, there aren't human beings, but I don't know. I guess there are people working in these content minds or whatever. I mean, if you read the slideshow captions of those things a lot of time, they really don't know. I guess there are people working in these content minds or whatever. I mean, if you read the slideshow captions, all those things a lot of time, they really don't make sense.

They're like, but this is this, this is this ad I keep seeing. I'm not gonna appear, but. This ad that I keep, I have no idea, but this ad I keep seeing, I tweeted about it today. The sweatshirt? Okay, first off, those people who ever make sweatshirt. So you know that that is also,

that was a piece of, there was an article written about this, I think on slate. I think it's the sweatshirt, they were like, it's the best sweatshirt, there's like a, there's a weight period. Academy, it's academy or something. Because the people who made,

the guy went to the factory. The people who make the sweatshirt were like, it's a sweatshirt. Sponsored in some way, content of some sort. I don't know, but. The thing I saw isn't completely an ad, but it's like, it mixed in with tabulish it. And it's like, the sweatshirt, you couldn't get,

the sweatshirt that was on a wait list is finally available again. And by the way, it's been finally available again for several years, okay? I've seen that ad over and over. It's really like the modern day snorkeys ad as far as I'm concerned. Well, I mean, as a person who buys stuff

based on that kind of those kind of like the Facebook ads, the Facebook ad stream is really good. They're really good at selling ads. No, the Facebook ads are showing like real products that you might wanna buy like an app that's good or parachute sheets or something that's like a real thing. I get Glossier, which is, I say Glossier, but I think it's Glossier.

Is it for an ad-ing it is? Yeah, because I have been for an ad-ing Glossier. I think it's Glossier, but I think it's Glossier. Is it for not a Glossier? Yeah, because I've been pronouncing Glossier. I think it's Glossier. Well, then anyway, you know, every single one of their products. No, no, no. Facebook has the data they need to actually give you a good look. Facebook has it. They know who I am.

They know what you're doing, and they know who you are connected to, and they know what those people are doing, and they know, and there's so much fucking data. I mean, you are such a, just a gigantic mountain of data for Facebook to mine, but here's the thing. Good idea. Cause I love the ads. Oh, look, Instagram, the ads I see on Instagram, way better than the ads I see anywhere else.

Like, I can't have to block those. I don't look at those. You know those disgusting health bars that I bought? Yes. What are they called? RX something? I don't know, but I ate when yesterday and it was very bad. They're fucking terrible. Hold on, I want to talk about it that I bought. Yes. What are they called, RX something? I don't know, but I ate when yesterday,

and it was very bad. They're fucking terrible. Hold on, I want to talk about it. I was extremely desperate. And then I want to take a break. We have to take a break. But I saw an Instagram ad for these things, so I think they're called like RX bars.

Are they raw? Yeah. That's so disgusting. It's like cashews and whatever. I open one, I mean, I have to say, it looked like a turd. Really? I looked like a huge turd and then I ate it and it was like gum.

It was like gum. Let me just say, I'm sorry. I'll say this. They got me with the target in. They got me with the photos. I went to Amazon order. It's very disappointing. I went to Amazon order the seven pack of what are these things taste like just to check

out all the flavors and they're fucking disgusting. I'm sorry RX bar. But your product tastes like garbage to me and it looks super gross as Laura just pointed out kind of looks like feces. But that's fine. Listen, you're entitled to your situation. But I will say this, Instagram got me and they get me more than most things because it's like a decent ad experience in a place that makes sense. You're like, okay, yeah, a beautiful photo of an RX bar. I guess I'll give it a shot. They have better packaging than bars. Let's put it that way.

Now, packaging's great. We have to take a break and then we'll be right back. Should we do it just after the stop talking? No, if we can take a break, if there's gonna be some words from our sponsor, because you know, we are not running this out of our own pockets sponsors give us money and then that turns into content for the audience

so we're gonna take a break and then we'll be right back with more Laura Jim This episode of Somaros brought to you by BrainTree. Developers around the world have embraced the BrainTree V.0 SDK as the easiest way to add secure mobile payments to their apps and websites. No matter what payment type, Braintree accepts it. Apple Pay, Android Pay, Paypal, Venmo, Credit Cards, even Bitcoin, if that's your cup of tea. And if something new pops up, they'll support that too. It's the same payment solution used by Uber, Airbnb, and GitHub, so you know its scales. Integrating it into your app is as easy as inserting a few lines of code. But don't take my word for it, even though my word is as good as gold. You should try out the

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So visit ritani.com. That's ritani.com that's R-I-T-A-N-I dot com slash tomorrow today for the free diamond giveaway. Okay we're back with Laura June and now I originally when I started this conversation many, many moons ago, that's what are you looking at? That's my, Laura is looking at a pen in my office. That's, oh, it twists off. That's a twist off top. Okay.

That's the pen that Evan gave me. Oh, okay, I was wondering why you had a nice pen. My account gave me a beautiful pen. Do you use it? You don't nice pen. My account gave me a beautiful pen. Do you use it? You don't write anything on my desk. I use it to sign all my important documents. Okay. Where in my office? By the way at our house. Is it a ballpoint rollerball? It's a roller. Okay. It's a beautiful pen. A little heavy from my taste Although it's a beautiful gift from Evan and I you know, you know my preference You like fake ink pens cheap Cheap pens cheap very cheap. Yeah, one of those pens. What are those pens you get that look like a

The Bic now the ones that have the oh the varsity the the fountain pens. Yeah, they look like fountain pens But they're not I've been not using them anymore because Our daughter Zelda. So I used them and she presses so hard that the whole tip breaks off a lot of the time. She's very depressed about it. So, okay, I wanna talk about. I'm gonna wipe out the pen up.

I was touching it. I'm really touching it and trying to pull the cap off, which is a twist off. Anyhow, it's a beautiful pen. It's a tortoise shell finish. Okay, this is all great content. So what I wanted to say is that, I don't like the,

so Hillary is the presumptive nominee, but let's just be clear she's the nominee for, she is the Democrat, the Democrats chose. She was endorsed by the president today. She is a Democratic nominee for president. Yeah. And that's huge on many, many levels.

And let me just say this. In this hat, we had, I wouldn't say we had a divided house, but. We didn't have a divided house because I didn't know who you voted for. No, I told you I voted for. No, you didn't tell me until after you'd done it. No, I told you I was, who I was 24.

Several weeks. No, I told you I was 24 before I did it. I thought you were joking. And then after, no. I thought you were joking. Although it was kind of like, okay, I will say this. I do this thing where I like talk about how, like something is my new thing, like the Big Bang Theory,

which I've talked about before on this show, where I'm like, I'm gonna start watching the Big Bang Theory as a joke and then we start doing it. Or you'll say you're like gonna do something and it actually means you're not going to, like you do say it, do you do that? Like why do you do that? Like give me an example.

Like you did. I actually like, when I think of this, the best example is, um, is not you, it's your brother when he used to talk all the time about how he was gonna buy an SUV. No, we're completely different people. No, I never, I never say I'm gonna do something and don't do it.

This was waiting for you to give an example because you don't have one. No, no, but the same one time I said, I was gonna do something. The big bang theory thing is a great thing. Like the same one time I said I was gonna do something. The big bang theory, I think, is a great thing. That was when I said I was gonna do it and I did it. Right, but you only did it to spite me. Community. No, it turned out that watching the big bang theory

was like, was like. But you didn't want to, you were like, or, no, actually I'm describing it poorly. What you actually do is, you say you like things, or don't like things, and then you sort of like, like you love to like, you'll be like, all this movie's terrible, and then you'll sit there and watch it. No, that's different. You do it all the time.

That's a whole different. Right, but it makes you feel sort of. The only watch horrible movie is not the same thing as saying you're gonna do something and not doing it. In fact, it's quite the opposite. I just feel like there's this... There's this thing that you do where you go like he's my man Sanders.

Oh, you're Sanders. Oh, why don't I pretend it? It doesn't, yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't sound, yes, it sounds disingenuous. You'd be like when I talked for years about how Tom Cruise is my favorite actor and I gave him the nickname, the Cruise Missile, and then he became my favorite actor. But I just think there's this, I don't think we really ever had a convert. I mean, maybe it's probably also partially just that like I had written about how I was going to vote for Hillary, I had made, I had argued it really well. I had assumed that you had read it though, like you probably did. I did read it. And you don't listen to my podcast read it, though you probably did. I did read it.

And you don't listen to my podcast, obviously, because you would know that I was talking about our had divided house, because I was, no, I didn't hear that. But we talked about this. We had debates about Bernie and Hillary. Well, sure, I mean, because it was a debate I had with myself, it wasn't like an easy decision for me,

but I assumed when I made my mind up that that sort of I don't know. You thought you, so you thought when you decided you were ready for it, I was convincing. I thought I was convincing enough. I mean, okay, so let me just, let me just, let me just say what I was trying to say, which is I voted for Bernie Sanders in the New York primary. You did? What? I voted for Bernie, I don't know what his middle name is, it's like Jerome or something.

Bernie Jerome Sanders. I don't think it's Jerome, I really don't. Bernie, uh, Antonius Sanders. Because his first name is definitely Bernard. Bernard? What do you think it is? Let's take a, you just you just I think it's Bernard Jeffrey Sanders Jeffrey. Yeah, that's what I think it is. That's right Bill. It's Bernie J. Sanders. That's right to me

Bernard Bernard Bernie Sanders wait what that's not a middle name. He is the first thing it's in quotes. Yeah Things a lot of internet. It's Jerry, Bernard Sanders. Bernard what? Bernard what? You know what it doesn't say. Oh, you didn't have a bill name? Okay. Bernard Sanders.

Bernard Sanders. No middle name. Very unusual. Well, you know, he came from an era when people were really trying to save, scramp and save. And so, his mother's name was Dorothy. Beautiful name. Wonderful name. Yeah, and save. So, it's Mother's Name was Dorothy. Beautiful name, wonderful name. Yeah, it is.

The diminutive of Dorothy is, of course, dot. We almost named Zelda Dorothy. That's correct. We came very close, and then we discovered Zelda. Anyhow, so we had the Vita House here, and then I voted for Bernie Sanders, Bernard Sanders, and you voted for Hillary in the primary. And then, look, it became clear,

actually the New York primary was the big one, where it became clear that Bernie Sanders was not going to be the nominee. I mean, I would say that it was clear to me always. But let me be clear about something. But it became less clear for a little while, and then it became totally clear again. Let me clarify. There's a lot of being clear going on.

But let me be clear, clarify. My position on this was like, I like Bernie. He's a weirdo. He's got strong opinions. He's using the word socialist publicly, which I thought was very bold. Very cool. Very cool. You know, he's a guy, he's a guy word socialist publicly, which I thought was very bold. Very cool, very cool. Very cool.

You know, he's a guy, here's a guy who's like a 73 year old, how old is he? 70, 72. I think he's 74. 74 year old maniac, he's got dandruff on his coat, he's screaming like a maniac, you're like, who is this weird old guy they let up on the podium? But he actually says pretty interesting things, right?

Like things that most people don't say out loud, and people were getting energized by it, which I thought was great. But mostly, what was most important about Bernie is that he was saying things that were very radical. Now, I like that, I responded to it. It's not that I hated Hillary. It's not that I was like,

Hillary's a crook fuck Hillary. It wasn't like Hillary's a loser. I don't want her to be president. It was just like, I's a crook fuck Hillary. It wasn't like Hillary's a loser. I don't want her to be president. It was just like, I like Bernie better at this moment. Right. And for me, when I wrote the thing, it was very similar, which is that I really liked Bernie. He's the kind of candidate who I have always liked.

I've always liked. You're basically a third party candidate in many ways, but he's just not. He's just has a long history of being a really radical senator. And I think, um, you know, I had used to be like really big and to like the green party and like the socialist working party. Yeah, definitely. And did you know, I never voted for anator, but I mean, I'm a lifelong believer in the democratic process, and I'm a lifelong Democrat. And I think that, you know, I was definitely registered. I used to register into like weird parties all the time, but it would always sort of... Yeah, of course,

when I was young, but I would, you know, always swing back to get, because I really always wanted to like participate in primaries, and that's just the way it works here. So I think, to like participate in primaries and that's just the way it works here. So I think, um, yeah, I mean, it was the same for me. I really love him. I really thought he was great. Um, but I also really liked Hillary and thought that she was the person I needed to vote for. Well, so, and Laura wrote a great piece about why she was voting for Hillary, was it had to do with our daughter, but, but let me just be clear, what I'm trying to say is, and there's so much clarifying here. What I'm trying to say is that,

while I like Bernie and liked his message, and I actually voted for him, when the time came that it was clear that Bernie wasn't going to be the nominee. When did that become clear to you? I think it was after the New York primary. Right. It was like he lost. Yeah. A major, major battleground. And he just didn't win. Right. And, and so I thought, okay, well, we have two really good candidates here. And either one of them would be great. I mean, and so much better

than my comparison to the Republicans, the Republicans literally could not produce a single candidate. I mean, there was not a single candidate that took the stage and- I mean, honestly, Trump is the best one, which is like so insane. But that's like saying, that's like choosing like the best looking bullet to be shot with.

You know what I'm saying? I mean, I know that he's always said, like really sort of fucked up racist stuff and whatever, but like, I feel like at first, he like really sort of fucked up racist stuff and whatever, but like I feel like at first He was like less off the chain than he is now and now he's like Because he won so handily. He's like really said just like really fucked up stuff I mean even even a trombies and for real At first it seemed like maybe it seemed kind of like a joke or like on you know, it was unclear how to take it and

You know, I remember thinking like, at least he's from New York. I mean, that makes him... You think he'd be like, he'd be... He's not like, I mean, there are candidates like every single one of them was so embarrassing and so terrible and so hateful. I mean, there's no, I mean, I look at the Republican party and I just think, and by the way, I...

And there are Republicans that would be totally acceptable to me, like I wouldn't vote for them, but. Like new, like newt. You know, I mean, Romney, I mean, Romney seems like good, Mitt Romney seems like a great. Oh, by comparison, no, I mean Mitt Romney is a, is a, is a,

these people have made all fantasy by comparison. Donald Trump makes their appearance, he moderate. No, no, he makes, Sarah Palin seem like the worst, but I mean, they're both terrible. But like, you're saying that- Well, I mean, the one thing I will say that Donald Trump doesn't, like that he has had going for him is that he's not religious.

I think that that has- Yeah, no, I guess we can get the- He loves money, you know? He doesn't really talk about God, and that is very irritating to me when people talk about God all the time. Yeah, that's, I mean, it's irritating, like if you say like a Huckabee, it means he doesn't mean he's good.

A hot dog or a cruise. Right. Or these people who are like, they're always like checking, they're like checking God to see if it's okay. Like they're, you know, like, well God, you set me on this path, where it's like, okay dude,

you know what settle down? Like you're, you're my hot dog, but you're showing, you show you a talk show on Fox News. What's been educational for me about Donald Trump is that I found that religion is a really good excuse for mostly white, mostly male politicians to hate women and to subjugate them and to take away their rights and to threaten to take away their rights and to try to, and Donald Trump doesn't need the religion. He can still be just as shitty. Like he, it's like, not necessarily how that

is excused. What's interesting about Donald Trump is that he is horrible on many levels, particularly I'm about women and of course people of color and immigrants. I mean, everyone except for like white business men. But he's the way he carries it out is in such a kind of like, he's most reminiscent of a dick you encounter in New York on the street or at a deli versus a person who's like a zallet. You know, normally Republican, normally Republican bad. It's a recognizable package for me. It's not as threatening as like a like a Bible thumper from the South. Right. Like bad actors and bad taste in the Republican party has

traditionally come from places that are like the South and religion and these like kind of like they're tied up like George Bush was a George George W. He was really scary to me because I didn't know that kind of person. And all of his weirdness was driven by this, like, sort of this, like, under, this under. Moralistic girl. Yeah, this, like, born again Christian world view that he had where we were in battle

in this kind of like apocalyptic world ender of a war in a situation where, where, situation where it was all about getting to have in her hell or whatever. He had this moral compass that was based on religious doctrine, that was kind of very flawed religious doctrine. But then you have Donald Trump, who's just like a mean-spirited bully who kind of doesn't even care about what he says. He just says it because like he knows it's

effects people, you know. Anyhow, hold on. So getting, so how do we get on Donald Trump? Oh, we're talking about Bernie and Hillary. So my point that I was making is essentially like, so now you see on the internet these like Bernie people are really upset because Obama hasn't now endorsed Hillary, Elizabeth Warren endorsed Hillary tonight. And I believe Bernie has agreed to drop out of the race fairly soon. I think privately he probably has. I mean, here's what I think. I think that this has been going on for quite a while. I think that Bernie Sanders has millions of devoted fans and people who have voted for him. I think he has a smaller subset of people who are not, who don't, I think there's a very

small slice of his supporters who are like fuck Hillary Clinton, I would never vote for her. I think they're really like it's a minuscule percentage. Like maybe not, you know, it's not 5%. It's something like that. But like I think that it's a small amount. They're very vocal. And then I think there is a bunch of people

who actually are supporting Donald Trump stoking those. I mean the interiors, I think are like partially this tiny faction of weird bad people that Bernie attracted, and then which all politicians attract bad people. And those are definitely the people who hang out on Reddit. And then the Trump supporters who, like, the really crazy internet Trump supporters are horrible. The Trump supporters who, like, the really crazy internet Trump supporters are horrible, I think those people hate Hillary Clinton and hate women so badly that they think

that they can use Bernie Sanders as a way to get to her. Right. And I think that, and I think that, like, what I think about, I mean, one of the things that I've been, has been sort of tumbling around in my mind in the last couple of days, is this idea that, I like Bernie, and I like his ideas,

but this idea that you would just hate his opponent so much, which I find really unrealistic, and I don't think that most democratic voters think like this. I think that- No, I mean Hillary is an interesting one. I think she has, you know, she's been, you know, what's interesting about her is like today, Obama was like,

no one's more qualified. And I think in some ways it's true. She's been around for so long, and not in the same way that like Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump have been around for a long time. She's, you know, in some ways been sort of really preparing for this and working Donald Trump have been around for a long time. She's in some ways been really preparing for this and working her ass off for it for a long time. But that is also meant because she's a woman

and because she was the first lady to a widely loved but also extremely controversial president. Don't you remember when the Clintons were in the White House how insane it was that people who hate, like that's where Rush Limbaugh came from. The like modern incarnation of like the right wing freak, like radio people who were like prototypes of Reddit types, they came from hating the Clintons.

Well, not all Reddit people, but like there's like legitimate. No, but they're, look, I mean, there's legitimate reasons to just like Hillary and party like the probably party lost its mind Around Reagan and post Reagan and it got progressively worse and worse and now like all you have are these In fact, this is really completely made it insane. Yeah, do you these incredibly polarizing like I My my impression based on what I know of the Republican Party, is that there was a period in this country where Republicans and Democrats had major differences, but weren't so far a part that it was like,

that it was like, you know, black and white, where they were just completely at opposite ends of the spectrum. You know, and now we have something that is so unrecognizable. I mean, I'm sorry, but like the Trump thing and the Brock Turner thing, and to some degree, the Bernie Bro thing is very clearly to me, a piece of this, the death throws of white male privilege and domination.

Well, I think there is a big perception of threat. I think that that's not just a perception. I think it's partially real. And I think there is a threat to white male privilege. I mean, the threat is real. It's like women and people of color are becoming like the dominant voice. And it's like- No, that's not true,

but they're becoming the not completely invisible. Well, but I think we're going from not completely invisible to dominant. I mean, and by the way, that's, I'm not complaining. I'm saying, uh, like, I mean, I remember thinking like, what if no man wrote a book for a year? Like, well, I mean, no one would want to pule it, so that's for sure.

I mean, sometimes I'm shocked, like, I look, I, I own probably, you know, thousands, several thousand books, and I look at them and it's like, the ratio is not good. You know? And it's like, I didn't do that on purpose. I prefer to read women. But like, this is the bias that's built into everything,

you know? And I think that that's just, I've never, like, this was my argument for Hillary, which was how insane would it be if I, you know, if I had a child who never had to grow up thinking this way? Or I have only become aware of the matrix surrounding me in my lifetime. Like wait a minute, only in the last 30 years

has feminist theory resurrected all these women in the 17th and 18th century. For 200 years, everyone was like, yeah, just no women wrote anything in the 1800s and like the 1700s. And like, that's not true at all. I mean, can you imagine on the flip side of this being a 10 year old who's a voting age right now,

who their entirety of the- A 10 year old who can vote? No, a 10 year old, eight years ago. Oh, okay. He's a voting age now, an 18 year old. Well, the world is a lot different now. Well, but also having grown up with Barack Obama as your president.

The only president you've ever known, basically, for the most part. And. And I think that that's a better world and I think that that's... No, I know. And it's like insane. Like, plenty of other countries have female leaders.

It's insane that in our country, I mean, yeah, like some will never even think like it's a big deal because it's happening. Well, let's hope, let's hope. But it is hard to separate like, you know, think about Hillary Clinton is that because of Bill and because of the amount of time she spent as part of the political process in America.

Right. It is hard to separate out the idea of a strong, successful, talented, hard-working female candidate from all the other Clinton stuff that exists. So what you see now is like all of that stuff being like pushed together, being like crammed together sort of as this. I think it's last hard if you're a woman. Well, no, I mean,

I think that, yeah, I do. I look like it wasn't a decision that I just, it wasn't like I was like, oh, of course I'm gonna vote for her. Like that didn't, it didn't come 100%. It was this way, I felt this way in 2008. I wasn't sure. I did vote for her. And I was really hurt when she lost, but you vote over her against Obama. Yeah. And it was, but it was, but like it was also that that that election was very different. It was really hard. I must have voted in the primary, right? Did we have the same debate in 2008?

Well, sorry, 2008, right? Wait, I mean same debate. Well, were we debating, was I debating like one candidate and you were debating the other? No, I mean, 2008 was different. You know, New York is early enough that it was like that. I mean, I kind of have always felt in my gut that Hillary was going to win this time.

In 2008, it wasn't obvious, but it also did feel kind of like she would. I really thought she would win in 2008. Obama was really important, and I remember him being at the DNC thing, the previous election. It was a big deal. And like he had emerged as like very influential and really charismatic, but he was like. You're gonna like, for you mean, Al Gore. Yeah, but he was, I'm sorry, not Al Gore, John Kerry.

Yeah, but he wasn't like, it wasn't by any means like, oh, she's gonna lose to this guy. I'm just trying to remember. It almost sort of emerged over time. But if we go back, but I'm guessing that, I can't, honestly, she's gonna lose to this guy. I'm just trying to remember. It almost sort of emerged over time. But if we go back, but I'm guessing that, I can't, honestly, I can't. You don't remember who you voted for. No, I cannot remember, but we voted

in the New York primary into the next week. You definitely did, I remember you going. And so, and I can't remember if it was a big deal. And so, is it you were voting for either Obama or Hillary or who were the other candidates? Who were the other candidates? I, who were the other candidates? I don't remember. I don't know.

I don't know. But I assume Cassinich was in maybe. Oh, Cassinich. I think so. I think so. Yeah. Maybe I voted for Cassinich. I don't think I did.

But you know, I mean, I think I voted for Obama. The thing that I think you might have actually. And you did you vote for Hillary? Or was what's his name in? Who? John Stamos. No, the guy who whose wife died in the next, it's John Edwards.

Oh, John Edwards. And did you vote for him? No, I didn't vote for him. Are you sure? Yeah, I'm fucking positive. You're talking about. Okay. All right, so I think in 2008, vote for him. No, I didn't vote for him. Are you sure? Yeah, I'm fucking positive. You're talking about okay. All right, so so I think in 2008, I do think we had a kind of similar debate, which was like yes, it was like Hillary or a different kind of, I mean, I mean, Bernie can't compare Bernie to

Obama, but there were like, there was like a guy and Hillary. But our debate wasn't necessarily a different time, completely different time. I mean, I thought Obama, honestly, it was hard to not be energized by Obama because he's in incredible political. And I wrote this in my article this year. The problem was I gave Hillary like,

I volunteered for her, I donated money to her, I voted for her. And then when she didn't win, I did feel sad for women as a category, but I loved Obama and I felt completely freaked out when he won. So this is the greatest thing that's ever happened in my lifetime. So this is right. so let me be clear. So this is exactly how I feel about Hillary now, which is like, would I have loved Bernie to be the candidate because he's such a radical weirdo

and has like, I think really good ideas. Yeah, he would have been great, but Hillary's also fucking great. It was like, I kind of knew, like, I could cast my vote for Bernie, but no matter what happened, we had two really good options. It was like Hillary Clinton,

who's super experienced and really good at her job and is really smart, and I think has the best interest of most of Americans and in mind, versus Bernie who's like a weirdo socialist who wants to like bring radical change to the government. Either one of those people, I think would have been a great candidate. Now with the Republicans you've got a situation where literally out of I mean it might have been like 168 people when they started. There's so many fucking candidates and not a single candidate for the Republican

party. And I want to tell you about this. But this also feels like a really volatile year. I mean 2008 I never for a second really thought that John McCain was gonna win. I always thought that the Democrats would take the White House over. I always believed that, never for a second, did I think John McCain was gonna beat Obama? I mean, Sarah Payland kind of beat him. Even though it seemed really insane at the time

because he was not white. I always- I feel like in some ways she is responsible for the kickoff of this completely outrageous, this tea party shit that happened in the Republican party and this like takeover from the most radical and most absurd members. You know, it was like, Sarah Palin was the beginning of when you really saw the visibility of how deranged that party has become. And this race was like, I mean, good. This election is really, really, I mean, it's just starting, which is insane.

Well, between Trump and it's exhausting. And, you know, I remember a few months ago, after one of the early primaries that Donald Trump had sort of like went through a series where he won, I can't remember the context, but Obama gave a press conference. I think it wasn't on vacation, but he was at like, you know, some like a state or whatever. And at the end, it was like unrelated matters he was talking about.

And then at the end, someone asked an inevitable sort of question about Donald Trump. And I remember Obama, who was so confident and I felt so good watching him. I don't know why. It's like that feeling you get when you listen to your dad say, everything's going to be okay when you're five. Like it doesn't work when you're 10. That's how I felt for a moment. He was like kind of laughed it off. He was like, look Donald Trump is a joke.

You know, he's not gonna be the nominee. He's not gonna become the next president. He's so confident of it that I really was like, oh yeah, like he reminded me, oh yeah, this is not, he was like being president is a serious job and Donald Trump is not a serious person. I think that was like the crux of his argument and I would still like to believe that that's accurate.

That this is a serious job and that come November Hillary Clinton is going to become president at least partially because even Republicans are going to be like, I'm not actually going to vote for this guy. I think there are, I think there are a surprising amount of Republicans that will not vote for Donald Trump. And I gotta say, I'm sorry. They might even say that they will, but I don't know. I'm sorry.

I mean, you have the Paul Ryan Paul Ryan but that said I'm also terrified but Paul Ryan listen if if this country votes Paul Ryan endorsed Trump right I think he did he said he would vote for him you think you know and then and then he described Donald he described Donald Trump's remarks about the judge as, I think, like a textbook example of racism. But then he was kind of like, but do you really want, but I'm going to still vote for him. Or something like, but do you really want Hillary and the White House or some insane shit like that?

And I have to say this, Republicans with any level of, any sense of humanity. You must abandon, the party has to, the party has to have a reckoning. And you've got to abandon these people because they are vile, bad people. They're bad people. They're bad people. Like I don't give a shit who you are.

If you're a Trump supporter, there's something wrong with you. I've said this before in the podcast, and while I love Paul Miller, an old friend, who supports Trump for reasons I can't begin to understand, we've talked about it in the podcast a few episodes ago. I'm okay with people being. Anybody who is a Trump supporter

is a broken person in some way that it's gonna be very hard to say. I think that, like, I don't really know, you know, politics isn't really my field. I go with things at like a very gut level. And I'm okay with people being, oh, I'm opposed to abortion or whatever. Like, I disagree with people. I don't think that that right should ever be changed or taken away. And I think that it's always under threat.

But I think it's okay to have an opinion about political matters. I'm okay with people who think that government shouldn't provide lots of services to people. I'm okay with people being like, big government is bad. I'm okay with people being opposed to socialism. Or like, I don't care about,

but I do find I would I don't think it's right or okay or acceptable to vote for someone who's like racist. Right. Well, I mean, listen, I, it's 2016. I understand that we are raised to accept people for their differences and to respect people's beliefs or whatever. But like if you are racist and you say the kinds of things that he has said, he's sounds like he's inciting violence to me. I mean, listen, it's that.

That's the, I don't know. Here's what I think. I would find, so I find that position, the Paul Ryan position to be actually the most troubling. No, it's insane that you would. If you're racist, then fine, go ahead and move forward. I mean, like, I guess that's what you want in this world to reflect, you know, your beliefs.

But if you don't feel that way and you still think it's okay to vote for them, then I think that's kind of fucked up. Here's what I think. think I don't get I think there are a lot of people in in the government and by the way Democrats and Republicans who Have so lost sight of their original purpose for being there that it's impossible for them to Operate in a way that makes sense to most human beings impossible for them to operate in a way that makes sense to most human beings. So a normal human being, when confronted with a person that is clearly racist, a person who's not racist would say, I denounce this person and all the things they say because they don't, they're not, that this, we don't have, we don't share the same values, right?

They're trying to hold together a Republican party. They're trying to keep it from completely disintegrating. But also, they're still removed from like what even their goal is. Like does the Republican party even know? I think their goal is that like Paul Ryan needs to keep his job. And he wants to stay. They want to hold on to certain seats in certain places because they think then they can oppose a Democrat thinking opposed positions of the democrats and somehow that will help the whole day but the reality this point is that they're so damage and so corrupt

and so empty as a party that they've let a person who is a complete imposter and a total buffoon lead their party as the presidential nominee and there is there is nothing. But I mean on the other hand, Paul Ryan is expressing the exact position. I think we would all have the extreme Bernie Sanders Democrats hold for Hillary, which is to say, yeah, I hate her, but I'm going to vote for her. And.

Yeah, but there's a, there's a, well, like a, an extreme party loyalty. Yeah, but that's, but no, I mean, maybe, but I think if you really, I mean, listen, hear your options with Hillary, okay? You can, if you're a Bernie supporter, you can you can say well i don't agree with her on everything but we do agree on some fundamental things like there are fundamental things that democrats agree on that bernie and

hillary agree on whether or not she's gonna go after the big banks there's some fundamental ideals of of of of of of a civil rights and basic human rights that Bernie and Hillary are 100% aligned on for the most part, okay? I think that. And there's some foundational shit that you could say,

even though I disagree with Hillary's policies here, here, and here, at a foundational level, she stands for the things that I believe in as a member of the Democratic Party, okay? I think that with the, in regards to Donald Trump, she thinks that abortion should be legal. She thinks that um, she's a supporter of civil rights. That she's, I mean, for the most part, I mean, I think you can say there are been some moments in her record that aren't perfect, but I think that it would be hard to say it's, she has been

erratic in her, in her position. There was a lot of hedging on those positions, you know, eight years ago. Well, you know, one of the great stories about Hillary is, I can't remember who where I saw it, off the top of my head, but it was about how basically like Hillary Clinton, as you see her today, was like sort of a product of an environment that forced her to be more center and more conservative in her actions because she was so much more liberal, so much more to the left than Bill Clinton was at some point, that it became like a problem for Bill Clinton and for many people in the Democratic Party, that she was kind of pushed into this position where she was much more right or center, right? Right.

Anyhow, the point is we have to wrap this up, but all I'm saying is this is the thing I'm sorry about Trump. I mean, how many people, so I guess what we're asking is like how many of these of the Bernie people are like, oh, I'm going to vote for Trump because of this. This is what I'm saying. The second option, these of the Bernie people are like oh, I'm gonna vote for Trump This is what I'm saying the second option is you can say just don't you can say okay, right? So here's your options you can say well Bernie and I sorry I love Bernie and I grew with all this stuff and Hillary and I don't see I die But there's some fundamental stuff we agree on so it makes sense to vote for her because I know there's a foundational level

We can maintain right that's the kind of thing like then you could, okay, I disagree with Hillary Clinton vehemently and I agreed with what Bernie said. And so I'm going to not vote this election because fuck Hillary, okay. But then there's a person and I think this is a minuscule percentage. It's like I just, they're basically anarchists, okay? But like, if I can't have a Bernie to destroy big banks, I'll just vote for the most extreme version of whatever candidate I can find, which is Trump, okay? I think if you're a person who supported Bernie and then will support Trump, who is literally everything that

Bernie stands against, you are a rotten corrupt person. That's what I think. I think that you really didn't have what you had in mind was not Hillary. What you did not have in mind was somebody who could affect real change in government. Well, you had a mind with somebody who was, that was just not a thing that you wanted and that you feared, right? And there's a very different position, right? It's not like, if you vote for Trump instead of recusing yourself from the voting process or voting for Hillary,

there's something really fucked up about that. That is the, it's like what a child does. Because there's nothing like. Burning and Trump have not a single thing in common, except they are both insane. No, they're both considered like outsiders. But that's bullshit because Bernie's been in the Senate for how long? 30 years?

I mean, yeah. How long has he been a senator? Forever. Right. So Bernie's not an outsider. He's voted over. No, he just has outside opinions. He's just an outsider. He's just an outsider.

I mean, he's just got loud and strong opinions. I think they have the only things they have in common are like personality things where they're like, they both just say what they're thinking. Yeah. You know, they're like, they, and look, the political process always needs to have one person who's the outsider and one person

who is like the, you know, and the establishment. And Hillary has been that both times that she's run. But at this point, I think it's just like, if you think that the line for you is to go to Trump after supporting Sanders. I just think that that's not very many people. No, no, I think it's a very small percentage, but I don't think you really support it Sanders

to begin with, I think you just wanna see shit get fucked up. And why do you see shit get fucked up as not? Is that a political position? I think it's a rhetorical position, and I think it's disingenuous, and I think that it is dangerous. That's what I just like about both, what I will say has, you know,

Trump and Sanders don't have anything in common, but some of their professed fans, I think do have things in common and probably some of Hillary's fans have something in it. And that's why this election feels bad. I mean, the like the internet, as we know it, really didn't exist even in 2012. So I think what we're seeing now is this violent feeling of, and there was fear in I think 2008,

I mean, I was certainly sort of like, oh, could something really bad happen? Like are people going to riot or like whatever, you know. Right, right. But now it's just, Sarah, Sarah, paylon. Yeah, but now- She was the beginning. Trump is like, Trump is like, Sarah, paylon. Now it just seems like that's almost likely because these people- Well, it's already happened.

There's legitimately- There's go to the rallies and stuff seem very like, they're like on, everyone's on edge. I mean, Trump has done something this- And he's not committed to like stopping that from happening. Trump has done something that- And he's not committed to like stopping that from happening. Trump has done something that's spectacular, which is he has, he has generated a violent passion from a part of the Republican Party that is very bad and should be rejected by all Republicans.

Right. You know, a part of their party that is racist and a nationalistic and isolationist and is violent and is not modern. And they are the worst of the party, the worst of the ideas of the Republican party. So he's like, made that base really fired up, but what he's also done is made people on the opposite end of the spectrum really fired up.

Because when you attack people for their religion, for their race, for their background, for their families, like when you get to- For their gender, for their body type. I mean, literally everything that you can say. For their disabilities. When you attack people at their human needs, I mean Trump's not going

after people on intellectual concept, he's going after people for humanity. He's going after humanity. He got a TV show because he's an outspoken dickhead. He was like a great, a previously best known for being a great guest on Howard Stern, because he'll talk about women sucking his dick and you're a fat pig. Trump's celebrity is predicated on his ability to fire people.

That's his best biggest quality, his catchphrase, his sitcom level catchphrases, you're fired. That's like, this is the person who- This is the last thing I want to talk about. Yeah. How much do you think that Donald Trump being very good at Twitter has to do with his success? Uh, I think- He needs nothing. I mean, because I know we talk about a lot, like Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, and then it's like,

oh right, no one really fucking uses it. But, uh, he's like a master. I think, well, here's what you have to, here's the, here's the math. The media are obsessed with Twitter. Media people love Twitter because Twitter is actually as a tool for the media, really, really good because you don't get to see a lot of things on Fold

in real time that you, where you can sit at your desk at the New York Times or at BuzzFeed or wherever. And nothing makes you't get to see a lot of things on fold in real time that you could sit at your desk at the New York Times or at BuzzFeed or wherever. And nothing makes you easier than all Donald Trump did another TV. Still the real time stuff. And then Donald Trump is very good at manipulating emotions on Twitter

because he tweets things like, he basically tweets like a troll. Like he's a troll. Yeah. There's no, I mean like for anyone who like I mean he has a lot in common with like share as a Twitter Per no, he's like Chuck grass The grammar is behind it. No, he's no he's like weirdly cap alive. He miss spells people's names He gets facts wrong, but he's like it's like it's like it's like it's like pure Donald Trump's a curiosity

But it's of course it's unaddeded Donald Trump But the media said the media sitting there and they're with her real-time feed and they're like oh Donald Trump. It's a curiosity, but it's, of course, it's unadded to Donald Trump, but the media's sitting there with their real-time feed and they're like, oh, Donald Trump said something, and it's very easy. Well, first up, he's good as a troll. There's no question. Right. Patty also thinks that the media is very susceptible

to his trolling. Do you think it influenced the selection? Do you think it made it more successful? Well, listen, I mean, I'm not, this is a whole other podcast and we really have to wrap up because we're way over our time limit. There's, I think there's a direct line between what we've done. I don't like that did the media make him argument. No, but the media helped. But the media helped.

But the media helped. Fascinating. But the media helped and the media helped because the media is glued to Twitter because the media thinks that like Twitter is a very valuable tool. And also we are desperate, desperate for anything that will get people to look at our stories. Right, like the media, as a whole,

is a, I mean, you've got like a pack of panting hungry dogs. Just like today when Helen. Just dying for somebody to throw them a scrap. I mean, you've got like a pack of panting hungry dogs. Right. Like today, when Hillary Clinton's account tweeted, delete your account to Donald Trump. Well, that's the best. Very funny moment. The best. Very funny moment.

But like, it's not enough for any more for us to just sort of sit back and go, hey, her social media person is young and pretty funny and that is really cute. Perfect for the platform. Perfectly suited. Now, the number of tellings you'll see tomorrow on the Deliere account.

No, it's only takes, like, you have to make an article that says Hillary Clinton tweeted, delete your account, and then you have to make an article that explains what Deliere account means in contact. Yeah. It's awesome. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no your account. I mean, I'm just saying, like, even if you don't know that there's a meme, even if you've never seen. What does it mean?

Delete your account. What are those words put together? What could the possible meme be? Even if you don't know the context of the joke, if you just saw Hillary Clinton with her blue check, check mark, tweet at Donald Trump. Delete your account. It's funny even if you know how. I'm Sorry, you don't think that people who never have encountered

the meme of the New York out aren't rocking the hilarity of Hillary Clinton and Tweenie that Tweenie that to Donald Trump. Like so, anyway, whatever. I'm not gonna go out right now, it's amazing. But the reality is it's one of her, it's maybe her best tweet ever. But the reality is,

I mean, the reality, it's really really good. It's so good. But the reality is that like, we are so the thirst, the thirst from the media is so intense. They can't, there is not, there's not enough water in all of the oceans. Okay. On the entire planet to state the thirst of the media industry as it stands right now on content. And so Donald Trump, that motherfucker, Donald Trump, knows better than anybody as an entertainer because that is basically what he is. He is a TV personality.

He knows how to quench the thirst. And the way he quench the thirst is by being a massive troll because he knows that all of these thirsty motherfuckers in media will lap that shit up like the dogs that they are. And I think that's a good place to leave this podcast. I'm still laughing about the league. It's all your cows right again. All right, I got to wrap this up. Laura, thank you for being here. It was such a pleasure. Anytime.

Thank you for joining me. I mean, really, the effort you put in to getting to the studio, which is in our behind our garage, has been epic. And I really appreciate it. The league your account. Thank you. Well, that is our show for this week. We'll be back next week with more tomorrow.

And as always, I wish you and your family the very best. But let's be honest. Who knows what's going to happen in the next few weeks and months. So just do the best you can.